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All right, we're ready for departure here at the pilot Project podcast, the

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best source for stories and advice from the pilots of the RCAF,

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brought to you by Skies magazine and RCAF today. I

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am your host, Brian Morrison. With me today is my budy, Paul

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Goddard. Paul, welcome to the show, and thanks so much for being here.

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Thanks, Brian.

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Happy to be here.

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Before we start, let's go over Paul's bio.

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Paul completed pilot training in 2015 and was posted

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to Triple Four squadron in Goose Bay, Labrador, flying the

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CH 146 Griffin in the combat support role.

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Over three years, Paul flew about 500 hours, including

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tactical first officer training, SAR conversion training,

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the Mudlake, Labrador evacuation Op, Lentis and

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Kamloop Spec, and a small handful of JRCC

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task missions, JRCC being Joint Rescue Coordination

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Center. Paul was then posted to Greenwood, Nova Scotia, where

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he was finally able to live with his wife Michaela and fly the

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CH 149 Cormorant at 413 Transport and

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Rescue Squadron. Over five years, Paul flew a little

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over 1000 hours and completed the upgrade process

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to SAR Aircraft Commander. During Paul's time in the Air

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Force, he has been a deputy squadron operations Officer,

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president and vice president of the Combined Mess Committee Unit

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Flight Safety Officer and Pilot Section Scheduler.

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Paul is currently posted to three CFFTs, where he is training to

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become a qualified flight instructor on the CT 139

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jet Ranger and teach phase Two and three rotary.

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Today we will be focusing on his time flying the Cormorant in

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Greenwood, Nova Scotia. Okay, so, Paul, we'll start

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with our standard first question. Where did aviation start for

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you?

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Like many of your guests on the show, I was an air cadet, so

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I joined, uh, when I was twelve. Did GlidEr, was

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unable to do power because I went to RMC instead. And the

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timeline wasn't going to work out on that. After that, it was just

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military flying. So phase one in between, uh,

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third and fourth year at RMC and then phase two right

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afterwards. And I got really lucky and ended

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up moving up a cohort because there was a guy

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who needed to take some leave for personal reasons, and I ended

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up in his slot and he came in in my slot,

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basically for phase three. Okay, so that worked out really well.

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Nice.

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So, like a lot of us, you got a strong start in air

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cadets.

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I did, yeah.

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Were you previously interested in aviation or did that kind of spark by going

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to air cadets?

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Yes, both. I, uh, think that it started a little bit

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before that. Like, I always kind of wondered what I wanted to

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be when I grew up and I chose not to

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instead. But, uh, the air

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cadet thing really cemented it for me that I wanted to be a pilot

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and that I wanted to do that professionally, not just as a

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hobby. And realizing that I'm wearing

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glasses, your viewers can't see that, but realizing that my eyes

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were going to be good enough because, uh, they changed the standard the

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year before I was looking to apply.

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Mhm.

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And I would have been able to get in under the old standard anyway, as it

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turned out. But that perceived barrier was going to have kept

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me from applying to the Air Force. So when

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that changed, I didn't self select

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out and I ended up just throwing my name in the hat and here I

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am.

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Yeah, that's great. It's such a good program. There's just so

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many of us that got our start that way. And how many people do you

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meet in their teams that they're like, okay, this is the career

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I'm going to do. And then they actually follow through with that. Uh,

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they live the dream. I think it's a really neat thing.

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Yeah.

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And some of the skills that you learn there are

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foundational, right. Like that ability to see

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an end goal and keep doing every little step it

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takes along the way to get there over such a long period of

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time, like that focus and that discipline. I

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really credit to my time in air cadets.

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Yeah, well, even before you go to glider, you have to do

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flying scholarship that year. You have to go to the classes every week.

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And I started that when I was 13 in preparation

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for applying to go to this scholarship when I was going to be

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15, turning 16.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Before the year I actually made it, I did another year of basically

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prep work. I've been working towards this since

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I was 16 years old. I went to glider when I

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was 17. So, yeah, it's a very

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strong foundation. How, huh, did you find your flight

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training experience in the forces?

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It was good.

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Very stressful. When I went through phase one, it was very much a

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selection course. When I went through phase two, there

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were so many students. There were, I think,

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three or four courses in house ahead of me. And then by the

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time I was leaving again, three or four courses behind

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me, and I had a great group on my course

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in my cohort. But on the whole, it seemed like the

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environment was very competitive in,

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like, I, uh, want to get what I want out of this

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selection sort of thing. But I got lucky in

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that the great group of guys and girls that I went through with all

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wanted a variety of different cockpits to fly

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in. And everyone ended up being able

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to get their first choice because our course director was very active

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in making swaps forwards and backwards, ahead and behind our

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courses in order to make the math work out.

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Mhm.

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So because enough of us wanted the

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various three streams, we all ended up getting the

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first stream that we wanted.

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It's interesting how based on people's

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personalities, a course can be like. We've always

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stressed that aviation is a team sport.

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It is.

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But a lot of people, especially in the early stages, don't realize that.

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And they're like, I have to look out for number one. It's

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interesting how much better of an experience it is when

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you have people who realize this is the time to come together.

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Yeah.

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And just the group

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banding together as a group and taking the time

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to be people and not just coworkers and

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not just people in competition for

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various slots. Like, if you get to know the guy

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who's sitting next to you in class and you guys study together,

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you're going to build each other up. It can only go positively if you're

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all lifting each other together.

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Yeah, absolutely. So you got selected for

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the Griffin, but now fly the Cormorant. Was the Cormorant the end

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goal? And how did you feel when you were selected for Griffins?

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Yeah, so I knew that it was coming. Um,

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I said, I want to fly the Cormorant. And the course

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director said, no slots this year. They're all, okay. Okay,

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that sucks, but that's life. And so I was

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happy to go to Goose Bay and get

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into a yellow helicopter, knowing that that would keep

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the door open to someday being a quamarant pilot.

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And even if that didn't happen, then maybe I would end up going

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into, uh, Trenton and flying primary

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search and rescue with the Griffin instead of doing

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primary search and rescue on the Cormorant. So I

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viewed going to Goose Bay as a bit of

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an adventure. It was a temporary thing, like every posting in

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the military, you're going to be there for as long as you're there, and then when you're gone, you're onto

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something else.

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So make the best of it.

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Enjoy the time you have while it's in front of you.

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And if you go in thinking you're going to have a bad time, I

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guarantee you will.

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Yeah.

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I mean, that's become such a theme for this show. The most

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successful people are the ones who can be

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happy anywhere and they can find the bright side

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of a posting that wasn't exactly what they hoped for, or getting a

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cockpit that wasn't what they hoped. You

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know, those are the people who love their job no matter what.

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For sure.

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So you mentioned Goose Bay and kind of making the

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best of that. Looking at it as an adventure, it's pretty

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isolated. How did you find your time up there?

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It was a bit of a mixed bag. There were parts of it that were

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really frustrating and there were parts of it that were

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slightly difficult. Personally. We made reference in my

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bio to living separately from Michaela. We weren't Married at the time that I went

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up there. She was still finishing up her, uh, navigator training,

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her axo training, and then made it over onto the Aurora

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in Greenwood. So at least we ended up in the same time zone. But

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all of the free time leave wise and all of the free

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money ended up being spent on Air

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Canada to make the trip down. So, uh, that worked out

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well that way. But the great outdoors up

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there is so much bigger. Labrador. The nickname

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for it is the big Land. And, uh, it's called that for a reason. Right.

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Like it's 6 hours on what is now a

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paved road to get to Labrador City from Goose

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Bay. And there's Churchill Falls in the middle, but that's

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basically a gas stop and a hydroelectric

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dam and the supporting economy that has

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been built up around that community for those reasons.

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So in order to get to Canadian Tire, in order to get

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to Walmart.

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In order to get to sushi, you.

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Got to do the six hour drive one way.

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Wow.

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And then do the six hour drive back the other way. So if you're looking

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for amenities, you're not going to find that in Goose Bay.

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I like to tell people when they ask know, it's got

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everything you need. It does not have everything you want by a long

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shot.

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Mhm.

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So people who have younger

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families who go up there and are like a really cohesive

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unit end up having a good time because they spend a lot of time outside, they

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spend a lot of time in the community with the other military

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families. The other thing that's unique about Goose Bay is

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the fact that you have to live on the

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base. So if you're a single person, you have the

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option, I guess, if you want to live in the shacks and eat in the mess and

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do the regular thing like that. But the

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PMQs are also available and that's basically where

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everyone ends up.

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Mhm.

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So for that reason, it's a very

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close knit community. When I was up there, mess life

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was very strong, and there was a really good culture

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of going out and seeing everyone and just being social

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on a Friday night. And so those

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two things make it easier to build a community

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because the community is all here and you already have

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something immediately in common. Even if the person

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across the street from me is an MP, NCM. Um, I

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can relate to them in a way that maybe lots of

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people wouldn't choose to relate to each other if

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they knew that I was in the military and they were a, uh, local. I was going to be

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here for three years. THEY'VE BEEN THERE FoR 30. THEY'RE GOiNg TO BE THERE FoR 30

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moRe. Right. So that sense of adventure that

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everyone brings up to Goose Bay with them is what makes

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it such a great.

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Military community, in my opinion.

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Yeah, it is really neat how those smaller

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postings that a lot of people look at as maybe

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undesirable are actually the places that have the

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strongest community just by necessity and by the

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nature of having a small location, for sure.

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And that, like, I wouldn't recommend

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Goose Bay to everyone, but I would

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recommend Goose Bay to anyone who is looking

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at that and thinking it might be fun.

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Mhm. BECAUSE IT IS.

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But if you're not interested in going there and having a good time,

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like.

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I said, you won't.

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SO WHAT EXACTlY DOES THE CORMORANT dO? We haven't covered it on

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the show yet, but we also have the Hercules and the SAR community.

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How do their roles differ?

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I'm going to back up a bit and talk about the SAR system.

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SURE.

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So there's three different regions in

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Canada. The one that I participated in is the,

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uh, Atlantic Search and Rescue Region, which is

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coordinated by the Joint Regional Coordination center in

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00:10:13.302 --> 00:10:15.904
Halifax. And they

244
00:10:16.102 --> 00:10:19.052
receive distress signals. Either it's

245
00:10:19.116 --> 00:10:21.828
from the folks in Trenton who, uh, get the

246
00:10:21.914 --> 00:10:24.356
satellite downlink, or it's from

247
00:10:24.458 --> 00:10:27.300
the Coast Guard receiving a mayday call,

248
00:10:27.450 --> 00:10:30.368
or whether it's from an area control unit receiving

249
00:10:30.384 --> 00:10:33.364
a mayday call, or being relayed a day call in some

250
00:10:33.402 --> 00:10:35.944
cases, or whether it's from a

251
00:10:35.982 --> 00:10:38.676
provincial police force, whether it be the Royal

252
00:10:38.708 --> 00:10:41.604
Newfoundland Constabulary, or whether it's, uh, the RCMP,

253
00:10:41.652 --> 00:10:44.596
or whether it's the, uh, certetic Becc. Those are the main folks

254
00:10:44.628 --> 00:10:47.124
who feed into the Joint Regional

255
00:10:47.172 --> 00:10:49.972
Coordination center. And from there they make decisions

256
00:10:50.036 --> 00:10:53.036
on who and what to task. They

257
00:10:53.058 --> 00:10:55.804
get a lot of calls every year. Some of those calls end up going

258
00:10:55.842 --> 00:10:58.684
to air assets to prosecute the

259
00:10:58.722 --> 00:11:01.708
mission in terms of we're going to go out and either do a

260
00:11:01.714 --> 00:11:04.364
medevac off of a boat or we're going to search for a lost

261
00:11:04.412 --> 00:11:07.344
hunter or we're going to do lines over the water looking for someone

262
00:11:07.382 --> 00:11:10.204
who fell in. Those sorts of tasks

263
00:11:10.252 --> 00:11:13.104
are what we tend to end up with every once in a while. We also

264
00:11:13.142 --> 00:11:15.920
end up with what we call humanitarian tasks.

265
00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:18.672
So the lost Hunter would be an example of that where the provincial

266
00:11:18.736 --> 00:11:21.716
police find themselves in a situation they

267
00:11:21.738 --> 00:11:24.676
aren't resourced to deal with. Another example would

268
00:11:24.698 --> 00:11:27.588
be if someone was hiking and they needed an evacuation medically,

269
00:11:27.684 --> 00:11:30.644
but the provincial response was going to be inadequate

270
00:11:30.692 --> 00:11:33.528
to the situation, we would go and do that.

271
00:11:33.694 --> 00:11:36.492
We being the federally responsive SAR system,

272
00:11:36.546 --> 00:11:39.410
whether it's an Air Force asset or whether it's a, uh,

273
00:11:39.410 --> 00:11:42.284
Coast Guard asset. From there,

274
00:11:42.402 --> 00:11:44.764
if you're tasking error asset, the

275
00:11:44.802 --> 00:11:47.036
Hercules is higher,

276
00:11:47.218 --> 00:11:50.216
faster, has longer endurance, longer range

277
00:11:50.248 --> 00:11:52.800
than the cormorant does. They're your search platform.

278
00:11:52.950 --> 00:11:55.808
And so traditionally you have Sartex in the

279
00:11:55.814 --> 00:11:58.624
back that are trained and equipped to parachute out of the back

280
00:11:58.662 --> 00:12:01.628
of the platform to go and render aid

281
00:12:01.644 --> 00:12:04.356
to people on the ground until such time as

282
00:12:04.458 --> 00:12:07.076
they can be extracted and people can be

283
00:12:07.178 --> 00:12:09.444
stabilized in place and then

284
00:12:09.562 --> 00:12:11.936
evacuated by other means because you can't

285
00:12:11.968 --> 00:12:14.912
evacuate people out of the middle of the bush

286
00:12:14.976 --> 00:12:16.096
using a Hercules.

287
00:12:16.208 --> 00:12:16.484
Right.

288
00:12:16.522 --> 00:12:18.884
And Sartex being our search and rescue technicians.

289
00:12:18.932 --> 00:12:21.900
That's right, yeah. So they come from other trades after a period, uh,

290
00:12:22.148 --> 00:12:25.124
of time in the forces already. So it's what we call a remaster

291
00:12:25.172 --> 00:12:27.644
trade and they come with a set of

292
00:12:27.682 --> 00:12:30.348
experiences and receive a set of training

293
00:12:30.434 --> 00:12:33.244
after going through selection that prepares them to

294
00:12:33.282 --> 00:12:36.120
provide medical and survival

295
00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:38.492
aid to individuals in the least

296
00:12:38.546 --> 00:12:41.500
hospitable areas and environments of our country.

297
00:12:41.570 --> 00:12:44.524
Yeah, they're amazing people. They're, yeah, if you meet

298
00:12:44.562 --> 00:12:47.536
them, they're so, so impressive and they can, they can do

299
00:12:47.558 --> 00:12:47.888
anything.

300
00:12:47.974 --> 00:12:50.572
And working with them every day keeps a pilot humble.

301
00:12:50.636 --> 00:12:51.500
Yeah, no doubt.

302
00:12:51.580 --> 00:12:54.324
If you'd like to know more about search and rescue technicians or

303
00:12:54.362 --> 00:12:56.964
Sartechs, this is a great time for a shout out for my friend

304
00:12:57.002 --> 00:12:59.936
Dylan Weller's podcast, the SAR Take. That's

305
00:12:59.968 --> 00:13:02.868
the SAR take. Dylan is a

306
00:13:02.874 --> 00:13:05.636
great guy and he's one of our Sartechs in the Royal

307
00:13:05.668 --> 00:13:06.884
Canadian Air Force.

308
00:13:07.012 --> 00:13:07.448
Yeah.

309
00:13:07.534 --> 00:13:10.024
So those are the people that we are

310
00:13:10.062 --> 00:13:13.016
delivering to a scene. And so

311
00:13:13.198 --> 00:13:15.750
the other thing that a Hercules can do for a, ah,

312
00:13:15.758 --> 00:13:18.712
cormorant is provide top cover. So when you have someone

313
00:13:18.766 --> 00:13:21.336
who's on a ship oat 200, 250 miles

314
00:13:21.368 --> 00:13:24.152
offshore and needs to be off of that ship

315
00:13:24.216 --> 00:13:27.096
faster than they would be able to if they were just steaming

316
00:13:27.128 --> 00:13:30.096
to shore. That's like a 25 hours trip if

317
00:13:30.118 --> 00:13:32.848
the ship is making ten knots, right. That's some

318
00:13:33.014 --> 00:13:35.580
reasonably simple math with some average

319
00:13:35.660 --> 00:13:38.530
speeds and assuming a bunch of things go right,

320
00:13:38.980 --> 00:13:41.868
that's your best case scenario. So if someone's

321
00:13:41.884 --> 00:13:44.550
having a heart attack, that's it man.

322
00:13:44.550 --> 00:13:44.850
Mhm.

323
00:13:44.850 --> 00:13:47.396
They need help a lot faster than that. So that's when you send your

324
00:13:47.418 --> 00:13:50.404
cormorant to go out and extract the

325
00:13:50.522 --> 00:13:53.492
patient from the vessel. So we go out

326
00:13:53.546 --> 00:13:56.484
and we insert a Sartech into a situation, whether

327
00:13:56.522 --> 00:13:59.364
it's like I just described on a vessel, whether it's

328
00:13:59.412 --> 00:14:02.232
on top of a mountain, whether it's uh, in the middle of a field

329
00:14:02.286 --> 00:14:05.096
or a swamp. And a lot of the time we're doing that

330
00:14:05.118 --> 00:14:07.944
by hoist. And then we will extract the

331
00:14:07.982 --> 00:14:10.876
patient, usually in a rescue basket, uh, if

332
00:14:10.898 --> 00:14:13.884
they're ambulatory, or in a Stokes litter, if they're not, and

333
00:14:13.922 --> 00:14:16.892
then retrieve the Sartech as well at the same time, and then

334
00:14:16.946 --> 00:14:19.928
get them to emergency medical care, whether that's

335
00:14:19.944 --> 00:14:22.384
in the form of an ambulance at an airport, or whether

336
00:14:22.422 --> 00:14:25.264
that's setting them down at an airport and

337
00:14:25.302 --> 00:14:27.996
just leaving them be because they didn't

338
00:14:28.028 --> 00:14:30.768
require any sort of medical assistance. But the situation

339
00:14:30.854 --> 00:14:33.824
they were in was going to deteriorate to the point where eventually

340
00:14:33.872 --> 00:14:36.756
they would, um. And so

341
00:14:36.938 --> 00:14:39.872
we go and we do the rescue part of search and rescue

342
00:14:39.936 --> 00:14:41.540
is basically what it boils down to.

343
00:14:41.610 --> 00:14:44.468
Okay, so to really simplify what you

344
00:14:44.474 --> 00:14:47.332
just said, the HERC is the search

345
00:14:47.386 --> 00:14:50.372
portion typically, and the cormorant is typically the rescue

346
00:14:50.436 --> 00:14:52.692
portion when you're dividing up search and rescue.

347
00:14:52.756 --> 00:14:52.936
Right.

348
00:14:52.958 --> 00:14:55.912
And there's large amounts of overlap too. Right. So when the

349
00:14:55.966 --> 00:14:58.816
Hercules is doing top cover, they're participating in the rescue

350
00:14:58.868 --> 00:15:01.868
by acting as a comms platform. They find us wins. On

351
00:15:01.874 --> 00:15:04.748
the way home, they've saved me needing to refuel twice to

352
00:15:04.754 --> 00:15:05.372
get home.

353
00:15:05.506 --> 00:15:08.284
Dropping flares for illumination, that's huge, that's a game

354
00:15:08.322 --> 00:15:08.616
changer.

355
00:15:08.648 --> 00:15:11.584
And we can get into that more detail a little bit later if you want to.

356
00:15:11.622 --> 00:15:12.064
Sure.

357
00:15:12.182 --> 00:15:15.136
And for searching, the Cormorant is

358
00:15:15.238 --> 00:15:18.080
capable and allowed to fly a lot lower

359
00:15:18.230 --> 00:15:21.072
and a lot slower than Hercules can. So

360
00:15:21.126 --> 00:15:24.016
we overlap search areas as uh, the

361
00:15:24.038 --> 00:15:26.532
Searchmaster will dictate in order to

362
00:15:26.586 --> 00:15:29.520
provide the right kind of coverage in the right areas.

363
00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:31.424
Okay, it's complex.

364
00:15:31.552 --> 00:15:34.400
It's usually complex, yeah. There's a lot of moving pieces.

365
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:35.168
Yeah.

366
00:15:35.354 --> 00:15:38.164
What is the training and upgrade process like for a Cormorant

367
00:15:38.212 --> 00:15:38.804
pilot.

368
00:15:38.932 --> 00:15:41.896
Nominally, you have two years from when you

369
00:15:41.918 --> 00:15:44.116
arrive on squadron to become a fully mission

370
00:15:44.148 --> 00:15:46.968
capable SARAC, which means

371
00:15:47.054 --> 00:15:49.836
that you have to hit the ground running. So you start,

372
00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.796
uh, out coming off of the OTF in Comox, go to your

373
00:15:52.818 --> 00:15:55.436
home unit, whether that's, uh, in Comox or in

374
00:15:55.458 --> 00:15:58.300
Greenwood or in Gander. And then you are

375
00:15:58.370 --> 00:16:00.944
a Fo one. So you start

376
00:16:01.142 --> 00:16:03.760
basically being trusted to

377
00:16:03.910 --> 00:16:06.608
learn and to keep the blue side up on the

378
00:16:06.614 --> 00:16:09.276
AI and to be as helpful as you're

379
00:16:09.308 --> 00:16:12.192
capable of being in any given moment. But you're just there to

380
00:16:12.246 --> 00:16:14.784
soak it all in, get better at flying,

381
00:16:14.912 --> 00:16:17.328
and learn how to eventually

382
00:16:17.504 --> 00:16:19.110
become that AC.

383
00:16:19.800 --> 00:16:22.324
I just want to break in for a couple acronyms there.

384
00:16:22.362 --> 00:16:22.836
Yeah, go for it.

385
00:16:22.858 --> 00:16:25.616
OTF is operational Training flight Fo

386
00:16:25.738 --> 00:16:28.600
first officer. AC is aircraft commander, and

387
00:16:28.670 --> 00:16:30.356
AI is attitude indicator.

388
00:16:30.468 --> 00:16:31.530
Sorry for that.

389
00:16:32.060 --> 00:16:33.604
It's okay. We speak in acronyms.

390
00:16:33.652 --> 00:16:34.904
Yeah, it's alphabet soup over here.

391
00:16:34.942 --> 00:16:35.720
That's why I'm here.

392
00:16:35.790 --> 00:16:36.600
Yeah. Okay.

393
00:16:36.670 --> 00:16:39.516
And then, uh, from there, you'd become an Fo two. And

394
00:16:39.538 --> 00:16:41.964
at that point, you've gotten the blessing from

395
00:16:42.002 --> 00:16:44.764
standards to fly nightboats with

396
00:16:44.882 --> 00:16:47.692
just any AC, as opposed to needing to do other training

397
00:16:47.746 --> 00:16:50.716
and standards. That's the most challenging thing that

398
00:16:50.738 --> 00:16:53.712
we do, is a nightboat. And I think we're going to get into that a little bit later. Again,

399
00:16:53.766 --> 00:16:56.736
referencing back to the flares. But that's that stage of

400
00:16:56.758 --> 00:16:59.330
your training is just getting good at that stuff.

401
00:17:00.020 --> 00:17:03.008
While you are an Fo two, that's your opportunity to continue

402
00:17:03.094 --> 00:17:05.596
and get really good at flying the aircraft.

403
00:17:05.708 --> 00:17:08.676
And you need to be really good at flying the aircraft so

404
00:17:08.698 --> 00:17:11.476
that you don't have to think about that while you're trying to think about the

405
00:17:11.498 --> 00:17:14.168
mission. There's no brain space to do both at once.

406
00:17:14.334 --> 00:17:16.856
And so then after that, you

407
00:17:17.038 --> 00:17:19.896
become a fo three, potentially at the

408
00:17:19.918 --> 00:17:22.888
same time, but not necessarily at the same time.

409
00:17:22.974 --> 00:17:25.672
You can become a utility AC. So you would be

410
00:17:25.726 --> 00:17:28.600
allowed then to do ferry flights, example, between

411
00:17:28.750 --> 00:17:31.324
Gander and Greenwood, doing a tail swap. You can do that

412
00:17:31.442 --> 00:17:34.232
between, uh, Greenwood and Comox. I did that as a utility

413
00:17:34.296 --> 00:17:37.244
AC. There were three of us pilots on that

414
00:17:37.282 --> 00:17:40.116
crew, along with an FE and a couple of Imp techs,

415
00:17:40.168 --> 00:17:43.136
and we were again, just doing a tail swap. But while you

416
00:17:43.158 --> 00:17:46.076
are an FO three, you are acting

417
00:17:46.188 --> 00:17:49.104
as an AC during simulated. And

418
00:17:49.142 --> 00:17:51.984
potentially, if you have the opportunity and things

419
00:17:52.022 --> 00:17:54.916
work out well in terms of luck and the level

420
00:17:55.018 --> 00:17:57.876
of complexity of the mission versus your level of ability at that

421
00:17:57.898 --> 00:18:00.596
given moment, you might be the acting AC on an

422
00:18:00.618 --> 00:18:03.352
actual task mission. And then

423
00:18:03.406 --> 00:18:06.196
after that, you go through your upgrade trip.

424
00:18:06.308 --> 00:18:08.744
There's build up to this in terms of, uh, like

425
00:18:08.782 --> 00:18:09.636
Rons.

426
00:18:09.748 --> 00:18:12.148
Ron stands for remain overnight

427
00:18:12.244 --> 00:18:13.732
simulated taskings.

428
00:18:13.796 --> 00:18:16.776
Running training days yourself. And at the

429
00:18:16.798 --> 00:18:19.496
end of it, someone comes out from, uh, Sarset.

430
00:18:19.608 --> 00:18:22.360
Sarset is search and rescue standards evaluation.

431
00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.416
And training, and sits in the jump

432
00:18:25.448 --> 00:18:27.852
seat. And you and an Fo two or

433
00:18:27.906 --> 00:18:30.336
better sit together in the

434
00:18:30.358 --> 00:18:33.264
front and make all of the decisions and do

435
00:18:33.302 --> 00:18:36.176
all of the flying in order to demonstrate your

436
00:18:36.198 --> 00:18:38.896
competence and run those

437
00:18:38.918 --> 00:18:41.904
scenarios through to completion. And if they're happy

438
00:18:42.022 --> 00:18:44.516
with the fact that you are safe and

439
00:18:44.538 --> 00:18:47.364
effective and efficient enough, then

440
00:18:47.402 --> 00:18:49.812
you will be granted the SAR AC

441
00:18:49.866 --> 00:18:52.836
category, and then you can take the crew out and do

442
00:18:52.858 --> 00:18:53.628
SAR.

443
00:18:53.824 --> 00:18:54.232
Wow.

444
00:18:54.286 --> 00:18:56.856
So that's a pretty involved upgrade process.

445
00:18:56.958 --> 00:18:59.944
Yeah, it is. And historically, it

446
00:18:59.982 --> 00:19:01.520
hasn't happened in two years.

447
00:19:01.520 --> 00:19:01.780
Mhm.

448
00:19:01.780 --> 00:19:04.320
That's honestly too much. And, uh,

449
00:19:05.100 --> 00:19:08.084
pros and cons to needing to write almost every single

450
00:19:08.142 --> 00:19:10.988
pilot an extension. Right. If you think that this is something that the

451
00:19:10.994 --> 00:19:13.884
person's capable of, and it seems like

452
00:19:13.922 --> 00:19:15.070
this is going to be

453
00:19:16.080 --> 00:19:18.700
achievable, why not do the paperwork?

454
00:19:18.700 --> 00:19:18.960
Mhm.

455
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.776
But the counterpoint to that is you shouldn't have to do that paperwork for

456
00:19:21.798 --> 00:19:24.112
80% of the pilots that are going through. So

457
00:19:24.166 --> 00:19:26.864
there's room for improvement. But

458
00:19:26.982 --> 00:19:29.152
that's the policy that we're left with right now.

459
00:19:29.206 --> 00:19:31.500
Yeah, and it's a little above our pay grade.

460
00:19:31.580 --> 00:19:32.210
Exactly.

461
00:19:32.840 --> 00:19:34.980
Those are things that they hopefully polish over time.

462
00:19:35.050 --> 00:19:37.924
Exactly. And things are improving as well. Like

463
00:19:37.962 --> 00:19:40.420
the binder that you need to complete has

464
00:19:40.490 --> 00:19:43.156
evolved, and it's creating a

465
00:19:43.178 --> 00:19:45.664
situation now where people are better trained. And

466
00:19:45.722 --> 00:19:48.664
recently we upgraded a Sac with less than 500

467
00:19:48.702 --> 00:19:51.576
hours on type. And I credit that to their ability as an

468
00:19:51.598 --> 00:19:54.392
individual. Highly, uh, competent young man. And

469
00:19:54.446 --> 00:19:57.428
he's also been given these opportunities

470
00:19:57.604 --> 00:20:00.548
that were very prescribed

471
00:20:00.644 --> 00:20:03.468
and laid out at the right intervals. And I think that he is a

472
00:20:03.474 --> 00:20:06.396
sign of the success of the system and the fact that it is

473
00:20:06.418 --> 00:20:06.824
evolving.

474
00:20:06.872 --> 00:20:08.152
In the correct direction.

475
00:20:08.296 --> 00:20:11.168
We're seeing that people are getting less and less flight time as we

476
00:20:11.174 --> 00:20:14.144
move towards simulation and a bunch of different factors. So

477
00:20:14.182 --> 00:20:17.056
it is important for those upgrade processes to become more and

478
00:20:17.078 --> 00:20:17.740
more efficient.

479
00:20:17.820 --> 00:20:18.450
Definitely.

480
00:20:19.460 --> 00:20:22.176
So we often ask what a normal day looks like, but in

481
00:20:22.198 --> 00:20:25.044
SAr, there are very few normal days. Can you tell us

482
00:20:25.082 --> 00:20:27.440
what the schedule is like at 413 Squadron?

483
00:20:27.600 --> 00:20:30.548
So there are a couple of caveats to this.

484
00:20:30.634 --> 00:20:33.260
Like you said, what is normal? M. Um.

485
00:20:33.260 --> 00:20:36.196
But when you walk in in the morning, if

486
00:20:36.218 --> 00:20:39.064
you're on standby, you should expect that

487
00:20:39.102 --> 00:20:41.944
you're going to be liable starting when

488
00:20:41.982 --> 00:20:44.808
you first walk through the doors. And also before that, at 05:00 in the

489
00:20:44.814 --> 00:20:47.716
morning, you can get a call as early as then. And then at 04:00

490
00:20:47.748 --> 00:20:50.648
in the afternoon, you can be released from JRCC.

491
00:20:50.744 --> 00:20:52.236
Assuming there's been no tasking in that.

492
00:20:52.258 --> 00:20:55.016
Time, JRCC is the Joint Rescue Coordination.

493
00:20:55.048 --> 00:20:57.420
Center, and then the night crew takes over.

494
00:20:57.490 --> 00:20:57.820
Okay.

495
00:20:57.890 --> 00:21:00.796
So at 04:00 in the afternoon, that's when, if

496
00:21:00.818 --> 00:21:03.776
you're on what we call slash, um, you've done your

497
00:21:03.798 --> 00:21:06.496
crew rest. You are at home on calL,

498
00:21:06.598 --> 00:21:09.356
potentially going in on a night flight if that's what's

499
00:21:09.468 --> 00:21:11.980
on the fly Pro, and then liable

500
00:21:12.060 --> 00:21:14.648
completely overnight. Again, whether you're

501
00:21:14.684 --> 00:21:17.684
airborne on a night trainer or asleep at home on your own bed

502
00:21:17.802 --> 00:21:19.620
until 05:00 the next morning.

503
00:21:19.690 --> 00:21:19.924
Okay.

504
00:21:19.962 --> 00:21:22.944
That's when the day crew takes over. On the weekend,

505
00:21:22.992 --> 00:21:25.610
it's a little bit different. So there is

506
00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:29.524
a slash crew for the whole weekend, effectively,

507
00:21:29.572 --> 00:21:32.308
and a backup crew. So when you're on standby,

508
00:21:32.404 --> 00:21:35.288
historically, you've been on RP 30. So 30 minutes notice to

509
00:21:35.294 --> 00:21:38.248
launch. When you're on slash, you're on RP Two, which is 2 hours

510
00:21:38.334 --> 00:21:41.324
notice to launch. And when you're on backup, you're on RP Twelve. So

511
00:21:41.362 --> 00:21:42.632
12 hours notice to launch.

512
00:21:42.696 --> 00:21:42.972
Okay.

513
00:21:43.026 --> 00:21:45.976
Those are airborne times. So coming along with that response

514
00:21:46.008 --> 00:21:49.000
posture requirement is a geographic restriction for where you

515
00:21:49.010 --> 00:21:51.964
can actually live. And, uh, that's true at all of the SAR

516
00:21:52.012 --> 00:21:54.716
squadrons. So the larger

517
00:21:54.748 --> 00:21:57.640
geographic area for Greenwood, if, uh,

518
00:21:57.782 --> 00:22:00.396
memory serves, goes all the way out eastbound to Windsor.

519
00:22:00.428 --> 00:22:01.008
That's right.

520
00:22:01.094 --> 00:22:03.312
But for 413 Squadron, it only goes.

521
00:22:03.366 --> 00:22:04.752
Out as far as Burwick.

522
00:22:04.896 --> 00:22:07.876
So it's more restrictive in order to be able to meet

523
00:22:07.898 --> 00:22:09.328
that two hour time frame.

524
00:22:09.504 --> 00:22:10.340
That makes sense.

525
00:22:10.410 --> 00:22:10.836
Yeah.

526
00:22:10.938 --> 00:22:13.844
So if you're on standby and it's a flying day,

527
00:22:13.882 --> 00:22:16.720
usually you'll do two sorties, one in the morning, one the afternoon.

528
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.684
We like to get out and do lunch

529
00:22:19.732 --> 00:22:22.648
somewhere else in order to be able to stretch our legs, get out of the

530
00:22:22.654 --> 00:22:25.416
local area that we see all the time, especially at night.

531
00:22:25.518 --> 00:22:28.456
We see it all the time. And then it also affords us more

532
00:22:28.478 --> 00:22:31.464
opportunity to work with different boats. Our bread and butter

533
00:22:31.512 --> 00:22:34.156
of what we do for training largely revolves around,

534
00:22:34.258 --> 00:22:34.524
hey.

535
00:22:34.562 --> 00:22:36.396
Can we get a boat? We try.

536
00:22:36.498 --> 00:22:39.468
So we're working with the Canadian Coast Guard and with the

537
00:22:39.474 --> 00:22:42.348
Coast Guard Auxiliary. And, um, when we do boat

538
00:22:42.364 --> 00:22:45.296
camps, we also contract for boats sometimes just to get a lot

539
00:22:45.318 --> 00:22:48.112
of variety to work in different conditions, work in different

540
00:22:48.166 --> 00:22:49.868
geographic areas of the SRR.

541
00:22:49.964 --> 00:22:50.972
What's the SRR?

542
00:22:51.036 --> 00:22:53.904
The search and rescue region. Okay, so SRR Atlantic

543
00:22:54.032 --> 00:22:56.580
encompasses all of

544
00:22:56.650 --> 00:22:59.444
the Atlantic provinces, all of

545
00:22:59.482 --> 00:23:01.892
Labrador, and a good chunk of

546
00:23:01.946 --> 00:23:04.644
eastern and northern Quebec. And I believe

547
00:23:04.682 --> 00:23:07.370
Quebec City is just outside and is in,

548
00:23:07.370 --> 00:23:10.276
uh, sor. That's managed by Trenton as opposed

549
00:23:10.308 --> 00:23:11.092
to by Halifax.

550
00:23:11.156 --> 00:23:11.624
Okay.

551
00:23:11.742 --> 00:23:14.596
So as well, when you're doing an Ron. So I remain

552
00:23:14.628 --> 00:23:17.576
overnight. So the aircraft doesn't go to bed in the hangar at

553
00:23:17.598 --> 00:23:20.008
home, it goes to bed somewhere else. And the crew

554
00:23:20.104 --> 00:23:22.776
will generally be sleeping in hotels in SAR.

555
00:23:22.888 --> 00:23:24.428
We'll get to that selling point in.

556
00:23:24.434 --> 00:23:26.590
The future, and

557
00:23:27.040 --> 00:23:29.436
we try to get.

558
00:23:29.538 --> 00:23:32.476
Very good spread out coverage of where we're going

559
00:23:32.498 --> 00:23:35.312
on those rows in order that by the time you're in AC,

560
00:23:35.366 --> 00:23:37.856
you've seen most of the southern SRR, which is where we

561
00:23:37.878 --> 00:23:40.736
do the vast majority of

562
00:23:40.758 --> 00:23:43.680
our calls to. And then

563
00:23:43.750 --> 00:23:46.728
on a night trainer, usually you'll just do the one sortie

564
00:23:46.764 --> 00:23:49.476
and it'll be out to do a boat and

565
00:23:49.498 --> 00:23:52.112
then back all on the same tank of gas, generally.

566
00:23:52.176 --> 00:23:52.644
Okay.

567
00:23:52.762 --> 00:23:55.656
Or land work again, really in a

568
00:23:55.758 --> 00:23:58.000
reasonably small circle around the airfield.

569
00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:58.540
Mhm.

570
00:23:58.540 --> 00:24:01.368
And that's just probably doing some kind of confined area

571
00:24:01.454 --> 00:24:02.808
work at night.

572
00:24:02.894 --> 00:24:05.736
Yeah, confined areas and hoisting really are

573
00:24:05.758 --> 00:24:08.676
the two big ones. Uh, sometimes we do airfield

574
00:24:08.708 --> 00:24:11.644
work. We tend to try not to do night circuits just to be

575
00:24:11.682 --> 00:24:14.556
good neighbors. If the weather is keeping us in Greenwood, though, we

576
00:24:14.578 --> 00:24:17.436
end up doing a lot of confined areas in and around the

577
00:24:17.458 --> 00:24:19.756
airfield, sometimes on a particular night.

578
00:24:19.858 --> 00:24:22.816
And the reason that Paul's saying they're trying to be good neighbors is I

579
00:24:22.838 --> 00:24:25.616
used to live in the PMQs in Greenwood, and when the cormorant goes

580
00:24:25.638 --> 00:24:28.636
over, like, your dishes are shaking in the cupboards, it's

581
00:24:28.668 --> 00:24:30.652
quite a powerful, loud aircraft.

582
00:24:30.716 --> 00:24:33.492
It is, yeah. I was doing circuits one night with a

583
00:24:33.546 --> 00:24:36.404
relatively junior fO, and the Facebook group for the

584
00:24:36.442 --> 00:24:38.900
neighborhood that I live in is right under

585
00:24:38.970 --> 00:24:41.480
downwind, and it was lighting up, and just,

586
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.436
uh, not understanding why we're doing

587
00:24:44.458 --> 00:24:46.308
what we're doing really triggers some people.

588
00:24:46.394 --> 00:24:49.044
Yeah, well, you got to get the training in at the end of the day.

589
00:24:49.082 --> 00:24:49.284
Right.

590
00:24:49.322 --> 00:24:51.360
You need to be competent and proficient.

591
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:52.084
That's it. Yeah.

592
00:24:52.122 --> 00:24:54.868
And like I said, I do try to be a good neighbor, and I believe that everyone at the

593
00:24:54.874 --> 00:24:57.676
squadron feels the same way. And, um, when we can

594
00:24:57.698 --> 00:24:58.840
avoid it, we do avoid it.

595
00:24:58.840 --> 00:25:01.708
M so what was the

596
00:25:01.714 --> 00:25:02.108
hardest part.

597
00:25:02.114 --> 00:25:03.470
Of the job when you started?

598
00:25:04.560 --> 00:25:05.470
It was

599
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:09.392
realizing that you can't help.

600
00:25:09.446 --> 00:25:11.330
Everyone and

601
00:25:12.340 --> 00:25:15.216
finding the grace to give to

602
00:25:15.238 --> 00:25:18.096
myself that this is just not something that we can

603
00:25:18.118 --> 00:25:18.556
do tonight.

604
00:25:18.588 --> 00:25:21.410
And trusting the AC was

605
00:25:22.740 --> 00:25:23.504
just doing.

606
00:25:23.542 --> 00:25:26.484
Everything that we could and sitting there in the other

607
00:25:26.522 --> 00:25:29.508
seat for long enough, you see that people are working hard

608
00:25:29.594 --> 00:25:32.516
to try and make things happen. And when we do turn missions off,

609
00:25:32.538 --> 00:25:35.448
it's not done lightly. It's done for the safety of the crew and the safety of

610
00:25:35.454 --> 00:25:38.440
the aircraft. One of the things that people

611
00:25:38.510 --> 00:25:41.272
say in SAR is you shouldn't create a second

612
00:25:41.326 --> 00:25:42.050
emergency.

613
00:25:42.050 --> 00:25:42.610
Mhm.

614
00:25:42.610 --> 00:25:45.384
And that's true. And you have to learn that early on,

615
00:25:45.502 --> 00:25:48.360
even though it is not always the easiest pill to swallow.

616
00:25:48.940 --> 00:25:51.644
You want to go out, you want to help people, you want to save lives. And

617
00:25:51.682 --> 00:25:54.652
sometimes that just can't happen that night or that day, for whatever

618
00:25:54.706 --> 00:25:55.308
reason.

619
00:25:55.474 --> 00:25:58.424
Yeah, I imagine that would be really tough. I've

620
00:25:58.472 --> 00:26:01.376
known SAR ACS who had to make that call,

621
00:26:01.478 --> 00:26:03.584
and it really weighs on them.

622
00:26:03.622 --> 00:26:06.496
It does, absolutely. I'm fortunate not to have

623
00:26:06.518 --> 00:26:08.480
had that decision

624
00:26:08.820 --> 00:26:09.664
myself.

625
00:26:09.750 --> 00:26:10.050
Mhm.

626
00:26:10.050 --> 00:26:13.008
To have to make that decision. But I've been part of a

627
00:26:13.014 --> 00:26:15.968
crew when we have decided not to go, and there were good reasons. I've

628
00:26:15.984 --> 00:26:18.784
been part of a crew where we had to delay the mission.

629
00:26:18.832 --> 00:26:21.556
And you always feel better about that. It's like we

630
00:26:21.738 --> 00:26:24.576
made the call, the safe call, and we went out later

631
00:26:24.618 --> 00:26:26.970
and managed to do it anyway. And that worked out well.

632
00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:30.376
So when you're first struggling with this,

633
00:26:30.478 --> 00:26:33.000
how do you overcome that feeling?

634
00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:36.152
Um, you just sit with it, really, and

635
00:26:36.286 --> 00:26:38.868
sort of readjust

636
00:26:39.044 --> 00:26:39.656
the way that.

637
00:26:39.678 --> 00:26:41.292
You look at the job.

638
00:26:41.426 --> 00:26:44.184
The job at the end of the day is bring home the crew.

639
00:26:44.312 --> 00:26:47.244
If you can bring home the aircraft, even better. If you can save

640
00:26:47.282 --> 00:26:50.228
a life, even better. But at the end of the day, if you haven't

641
00:26:50.264 --> 00:26:51.360
brought your crew home.

642
00:26:51.510 --> 00:26:52.770
You shouldn't have left.

643
00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:56.252
The cormorant is an extremely capable aircraft,

644
00:26:56.316 --> 00:26:59.184
including outside of the SAR world. Can you tell us about some of these

645
00:26:59.222 --> 00:27:00.188
capabilities?

646
00:27:00.364 --> 00:27:00.704
Yeah.

647
00:27:00.742 --> 00:27:03.728
So it's quite a large aircraft. It's nicknamed the

648
00:27:03.734 --> 00:27:06.628
flying School bus, and for good reason. If you were to put the

649
00:27:06.634 --> 00:27:09.264
ramp down and if it were capable and, uh, ignoring

650
00:27:09.312 --> 00:27:12.244
structural load issues, uh, if there weren't any seats in the back.

651
00:27:12.282 --> 00:27:15.248
I drive a Mazda three. I can fold my mirrors in and drive it right

652
00:27:15.274 --> 00:27:16.772
up the back and park it in the cabin.

653
00:27:16.836 --> 00:27:17.400
It is huge.

654
00:27:17.470 --> 00:27:20.232
It's massive. And it's difficult to understand

655
00:27:20.366 --> 00:27:23.032
how large it is until you're standing beside it.

656
00:27:23.166 --> 00:27:26.084
And the downwash

657
00:27:26.132 --> 00:27:28.968
from it is substantial. It only has one disc.

658
00:27:29.134 --> 00:27:32.076
When you say disc, you mean the disc shape that is made

659
00:27:32.098 --> 00:27:33.064
by the rotor spinning?

660
00:27:33.112 --> 00:27:33.724
Yeah, that's right.

661
00:27:33.762 --> 00:27:33.916
Yeah.

662
00:27:33.938 --> 00:27:36.796
So it only has one main rotor system providing lift to the

663
00:27:36.818 --> 00:27:39.756
aircraft. And because it's so heavy and because the

664
00:27:39.778 --> 00:27:42.656
disc is reasonably small compared to its size, the

665
00:27:42.678 --> 00:27:45.232
downwash is substantial. When I'm trying

666
00:27:45.286 --> 00:27:47.744
to get the point across to people

667
00:27:47.862 --> 00:27:50.684
who we're going to help, and I'm telling the crew

668
00:27:50.732 --> 00:27:53.276
across the radio, we have Hurricane force

669
00:27:53.308 --> 00:27:56.244
downwash that seems to get the message across well enough. But

670
00:27:56.282 --> 00:27:58.976
otherwise, we've showed up to boats and they've had crab

671
00:27:59.008 --> 00:28:01.508
traps and lobster traps all over the top. They've had

672
00:28:01.594 --> 00:28:04.560
metal tables which have been blown over before by crews.

673
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:06.880
If it's not bolted down, it's leaving the deck.

674
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:09.656
Mhm. So it can lift a lot, it.

675
00:28:09.678 --> 00:28:12.296
Can carry a lot, it can go quite far for a

676
00:28:12.318 --> 00:28:15.176
helicopter. Its endurance is in the realm of five or

677
00:28:15.198 --> 00:28:18.128
6 hours, depending on. Yeah, depending on how much fuel you're

678
00:28:18.164 --> 00:28:21.070
able to take because of the payload. And

679
00:28:21.760 --> 00:28:24.540
it gets relied on for a lot of SAR like things

680
00:28:24.610 --> 00:28:27.516
that are not necessarily SAR. So we

681
00:28:27.538 --> 00:28:30.496
spoke a little bit about the humanitarian missions already, but other things

682
00:28:30.518 --> 00:28:33.484
that it does is it assists with exercises undertaken

683
00:28:33.532 --> 00:28:36.448
by the NORAD community. So that's starting to

684
00:28:36.454 --> 00:28:38.530
happen more often where we're asked to

685
00:28:38.900 --> 00:28:41.696
preposition an asset in a part of the country where

686
00:28:41.718 --> 00:28:44.464
it isn't normally in order to be able to respond

687
00:28:44.512 --> 00:28:47.168
to a potential ejection if required.

688
00:28:47.344 --> 00:28:49.776
So almost using you in like a combat support role.

689
00:28:49.808 --> 00:28:52.692
Yeah, exactly. And that is going to

690
00:28:52.746 --> 00:28:55.416
become more prevalent, I believe, as

691
00:28:55.518 --> 00:28:58.328
the Sartex have been

692
00:28:58.414 --> 00:29:01.352
removed from combat support and we are now

693
00:29:01.406 --> 00:29:03.224
using medtechs in that role instead.

694
00:29:03.342 --> 00:29:03.864
That's right.

695
00:29:03.902 --> 00:29:06.536
I forgot about that. But Vic mentioned when we did his

696
00:29:06.558 --> 00:29:09.284
interview that the role of combat

697
00:29:09.332 --> 00:29:12.236
support and SAR are in the midst of some adjustment right

698
00:29:12.258 --> 00:29:12.492
now.

699
00:29:12.546 --> 00:29:12.972
That's right.

700
00:29:13.026 --> 00:29:13.292
Yeah.

701
00:29:13.346 --> 00:29:16.310
I'm very good friends with one of the CEOs of a, uh,

702
00:29:16.338 --> 00:29:18.784
combat support unit, and they were telling me that the

703
00:29:18.822 --> 00:29:21.712
medtechs are exceedingly capable people

704
00:29:21.846 --> 00:29:24.608
and they're very good at their jobs and

705
00:29:24.774 --> 00:29:27.472
they are not given enough

706
00:29:27.526 --> 00:29:30.428
credit because they're not Sartex. And that's

707
00:29:30.444 --> 00:29:33.372
the only thing that people see is the reduction in the capability,

708
00:29:33.516 --> 00:29:36.276
where what we should be looking at instead is the

709
00:29:36.298 --> 00:29:39.008
fact that they do bring all of these things to the table

710
00:29:39.104 --> 00:29:41.430
that we just wouldn't have without them.

711
00:29:41.800 --> 00:29:44.760
So the other things that we do sometimes is, uh, support

712
00:29:44.830 --> 00:29:47.720
other components of the Canadian Forces. So

713
00:29:47.790 --> 00:29:50.696
there are people in the forces who

714
00:29:50.718 --> 00:29:53.672
do very demanding and kinetic activities that

715
00:29:53.726 --> 00:29:56.388
require the ability to be evac

716
00:29:56.484 --> 00:29:59.156
quickly and effectively if something were to go wrong,

717
00:29:59.278 --> 00:30:02.188
and especially in a maritime environment, one of

718
00:30:02.194 --> 00:30:05.100
the best tools for the job is a cormorant. So we will be asked sometimes

719
00:30:05.170 --> 00:30:06.316
to assist with those things.

720
00:30:06.418 --> 00:30:07.070
Okay.

721
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:10.572
The cormorant is a fairly complex helicopter.

722
00:30:10.716 --> 00:30:13.328
Where do new pilots tend to struggle when they start on the

723
00:30:13.334 --> 00:30:14.316
cormorant?

724
00:30:14.508 --> 00:30:17.456
Energy management is something

725
00:30:17.558 --> 00:30:20.432
that you have to learn early

726
00:30:20.486 --> 00:30:23.248
on, and you have to learn very well. And it's

727
00:30:23.344 --> 00:30:26.308
a huge step to move from a 412 to

728
00:30:26.314 --> 00:30:28.864
a cormorant. We're talking maximum gross

729
00:30:28.912 --> 00:30:31.808
weights of, uh, 11,900 pounds

730
00:30:31.984 --> 00:30:34.516
for the Griffin, versus

731
00:30:34.628 --> 00:30:37.588
14,600 kilos,

732
00:30:37.764 --> 00:30:40.564
or 15,600 kilos if you're

733
00:30:40.612 --> 00:30:43.492
taking a full fuel load on the cormorant.

734
00:30:43.556 --> 00:30:46.364
So about triple what the Griffin can do?

735
00:30:46.402 --> 00:30:49.310
That's right, yeah. So we can take

736
00:30:49.760 --> 00:30:52.444
almost a Griffin worth

737
00:30:52.562 --> 00:30:54.776
of, uh, fuel in the cormorant.

738
00:30:54.888 --> 00:30:55.880
It's insane.

739
00:30:56.040 --> 00:30:58.712
So that aspect of energy management

740
00:30:58.776 --> 00:31:01.416
catches people off guard, especially in the early stages. So it's

741
00:31:01.448 --> 00:31:04.064
important to just take things slow, take things step by

742
00:31:04.102 --> 00:31:07.056
step. And you need to get good at

743
00:31:07.078 --> 00:31:09.760
flying the machine without needing to think about it that

744
00:31:09.830 --> 00:31:12.550
much in order to be able to later on

745
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:15.796
do all the mission management. And that's where

746
00:31:15.818 --> 00:31:18.452
people will start to struggle, is as they're handed those

747
00:31:18.506 --> 00:31:21.076
things. SAR is a

748
00:31:21.098 --> 00:31:23.780
messy, gray,

749
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:27.156
nonlinear tree of decisions that you need

750
00:31:27.178 --> 00:31:29.624
to make in order to affect an outcome. And it's always

751
00:31:29.662 --> 00:31:32.648
changing, always changing. And that's one of

752
00:31:32.654 --> 00:31:35.576
the things that, personally, I struggled with, is that I would have a really

753
00:31:35.598 --> 00:31:38.396
good plan, and we would go and start to prosecute it, and then

754
00:31:38.418 --> 00:31:41.164
things would change, and I

755
00:31:41.202 --> 00:31:43.916
wouldn't allow myself the

756
00:31:43.938 --> 00:31:46.748
flexibility to change my plan. Uh, and

757
00:31:46.834 --> 00:31:49.804
that very quickly got beaten out of me in the fo three phase. But

758
00:31:49.922 --> 00:31:52.736
when you're doing tabletop exercises, it's like we're going to go and do

759
00:31:52.758 --> 00:31:54.240
this, and it's like, okay, cool.

760
00:31:54.390 --> 00:31:55.328
And then when you have to go.

761
00:31:55.334 --> 00:31:57.312
And do it in an actual

762
00:31:57.366 --> 00:31:58.476
aircraft.

763
00:31:58.668 --> 00:32:01.652
You need to be reactive without being.

764
00:32:01.706 --> 00:32:04.324
Too reactive, if that makes sense. And just allow

765
00:32:04.442 --> 00:32:07.412
the changing variables to feed into

766
00:32:07.546 --> 00:32:10.404
your decision making loop and change your plan

767
00:32:10.442 --> 00:32:13.124
accordingly if it becomes able

768
00:32:13.242 --> 00:32:16.230
or necessary that you should do that.

769
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.608
So it sounds like, to me, I always ask,

770
00:32:19.774 --> 00:32:22.644
where do people struggle? And then the big question is, how can they overcome

771
00:32:22.692 --> 00:32:22.904
that?

772
00:32:22.942 --> 00:32:23.288
Right?

773
00:32:23.374 --> 00:32:26.072
It sounds like the only way to overcome this is

774
00:32:26.126 --> 00:32:28.780
experience, practice training, experience.

775
00:32:28.930 --> 00:32:31.916
Chair flying, and giving yourself the grace to learn

776
00:32:31.938 --> 00:32:33.452
without beating yourself up about it.

777
00:32:33.506 --> 00:32:36.350
Yeah, that would be huge. Especially when you were saying

778
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.784
you started out fairly rigid in your planning.

779
00:32:39.912 --> 00:32:42.732
And it's hard when that doesn't work, when you have

780
00:32:42.786 --> 00:32:45.452
an idea of how things are going to go and then it doesn't go that way.

781
00:32:45.506 --> 00:32:45.932
That's right.

782
00:32:45.986 --> 00:32:47.560
That can be really demoralizing.

783
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.516
Yeah. Your plan has to

784
00:32:50.578 --> 00:32:53.364
change. It can be a great plan on the ground, but as soon as you get new

785
00:32:53.402 --> 00:32:55.284
information, you need to make a new plan.

786
00:32:55.482 --> 00:32:58.436
One thing I like that you've mentioned a couple of times is how important it

787
00:32:58.458 --> 00:33:01.412
is to learn to fly the aircraft really well, because

788
00:33:01.546 --> 00:33:04.356
eventually the whole point of it is to employ it in

789
00:33:04.378 --> 00:33:05.232
a, uh, mission.

790
00:33:05.296 --> 00:33:06.052
That's right.

791
00:33:06.186 --> 00:33:09.096
That's a big thing that is different about flying in the

792
00:33:09.118 --> 00:33:12.088
RCAF versus flying in the civilian world. If you're flying in the

793
00:33:12.094 --> 00:33:15.064
civilian world, in most roles, your job

794
00:33:15.102 --> 00:33:18.052
is to fly the aircraft. You're flying the aircraft to fly

795
00:33:18.116 --> 00:33:20.764
something from A to B. So your main purpose is

796
00:33:20.802 --> 00:33:23.756
flying in the RCAF. Often you're learning to

797
00:33:23.778 --> 00:33:26.696
fly so that you can go accomplish a mission and use that aircraft

798
00:33:26.728 --> 00:33:29.484
as a tool. So the flying part is just a means to an

799
00:33:29.522 --> 00:33:32.416
end. The real meat and potatoes of what you're doing is

800
00:33:32.438 --> 00:33:35.104
the tactics and employing that aircraft to get the job

801
00:33:35.142 --> 00:33:35.488
done.

802
00:33:35.574 --> 00:33:38.476
Yeah, and we see that crossover to the civilian

803
00:33:38.508 --> 00:33:40.070
side of things. A little bit narrower, uh,

804
00:33:41.276 --> 00:33:44.244
on the helicopter side, because there are people who do power

805
00:33:44.282 --> 00:33:46.772
line survey, slinging, firefighting, long

806
00:33:46.826 --> 00:33:49.590
lining, all of that kind of stuff is very

807
00:33:50.040 --> 00:33:52.976
similar in that you're using the aircraft

808
00:33:53.008 --> 00:33:55.960
to accomplish a task. It's not just you're taking off

809
00:33:56.030 --> 00:33:58.808
from point a flying at, uh, cruise

810
00:33:58.894 --> 00:34:01.592
altitude X, to end up at point

811
00:34:01.646 --> 00:34:03.880
B with whatever the payload is.

812
00:34:04.030 --> 00:34:06.916
But we take that to an extreme

813
00:34:06.948 --> 00:34:09.940
in SAR. And when you're flying, for an

814
00:34:09.950 --> 00:34:12.828
example, when you're flying IFR, IFR is

815
00:34:12.834 --> 00:34:15.756
what you do to get to where you are going to do what you need

816
00:34:15.778 --> 00:34:18.236
to do. And maybe what you're doing when you

817
00:34:18.258 --> 00:34:20.960
finished that to then get home again afterwards.

818
00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:21.500
Mhm.

819
00:34:21.500 --> 00:34:24.044
So if you have to spend a lot of mental energy flying

820
00:34:24.092 --> 00:34:26.796
IFR, then you're not going to have enough mental

821
00:34:26.828 --> 00:34:29.696
energy to fly your mission in the middle of your

822
00:34:29.718 --> 00:34:32.676
flight and do the thing that you need to be

823
00:34:32.698 --> 00:34:35.684
doing, which is potentially a nightboat in

824
00:34:35.802 --> 00:34:36.084
the.

825
00:34:36.122 --> 00:34:38.720
Dark with fog

826
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:40.544
over the North Atlantic.

827
00:34:40.672 --> 00:34:43.476
With flare illumination and an

828
00:34:43.498 --> 00:34:46.248
aircraft somewhere above you, and

829
00:34:46.334 --> 00:34:49.272
having the brain space to untangle all of those things

830
00:34:49.326 --> 00:34:52.216
getting to and from on scene. It

831
00:34:52.238 --> 00:34:55.080
needs to take so little of your bucket that

832
00:34:55.150 --> 00:34:57.300
it's not impinging on the other thing that you need to.

833
00:34:57.310 --> 00:34:59.230
Do when you get there. Yeah, for sure.

834
00:35:00.160 --> 00:35:02.716
What is the strangest sarcall you've ever gone out

835
00:35:02.738 --> 00:35:03.260
to?

836
00:35:03.410 --> 00:35:06.284
I've rescued a couple of EPIRBs, which

837
00:35:06.322 --> 00:35:09.208
is a, uh, Beacon. Basically, it's EPIRB,

838
00:35:09.304 --> 00:35:12.000
but what it is is a beacon that

839
00:35:12.070 --> 00:35:14.624
is released from a boat after it

840
00:35:14.662 --> 00:35:17.456
sinks, potentially, or in the

841
00:35:17.478 --> 00:35:20.444
cases that I've been involved in, it was knocked off or fell

842
00:35:20.492 --> 00:35:23.200
off, somehow enters the water, self activating,

843
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:26.048
sends a 406 signal up to the SArSat,

844
00:35:26.144 --> 00:35:29.076
comes down to CMCC Trenton, goes across to

845
00:35:29.098 --> 00:35:30.240
JRCC Halifax.

846
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:33.188
CMCC M is the Canadian Mission Control center.

847
00:35:33.274 --> 00:35:36.116
And they say, we have an EPIRB going off,

848
00:35:36.138 --> 00:35:38.532
and we need you to go and investigate it and potentially

849
00:35:38.596 --> 00:35:41.416
rescue whoever was on the boat that may or may not have

850
00:35:41.438 --> 00:35:44.280
sunk. And in both cases, it's just like a,

851
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.080
uh, can of Folgers, except it's yellow and it has

852
00:35:47.150 --> 00:35:50.128
an antenna, and, uh, it's just bobbing there in the waves

853
00:35:50.164 --> 00:35:53.084
because it fell off of a boat. So that's the strangest one

854
00:35:53.122 --> 00:35:55.884
I've been involved in. There are also people that have had to

855
00:35:55.922 --> 00:35:58.444
find out that they were in a

856
00:35:58.482 --> 00:36:01.404
landfill, like the EPIRB had gone off in a landfill after

857
00:36:01.442 --> 00:36:03.084
it had been disposed of improperly.

858
00:36:03.132 --> 00:36:03.792
Oh, no way.

859
00:36:03.846 --> 00:36:04.160
Right.

860
00:36:04.230 --> 00:36:07.136
So we're getting, as an organization, as

861
00:36:07.158 --> 00:36:09.984
a larger SAR system, a lot better about identifying the fact

862
00:36:10.022 --> 00:36:12.724
that it is in a landfill or in a dry dock and

863
00:36:12.762 --> 00:36:15.504
not using SAR assets, primary

864
00:36:15.552 --> 00:36:18.100
SAR assets, to investigate it as a real

865
00:36:18.170 --> 00:36:21.056
emergency. There's some filtering that's

866
00:36:21.088 --> 00:36:21.732
happening now.

867
00:36:21.786 --> 00:36:22.004
Right.

868
00:36:22.042 --> 00:36:23.744
Because that's a big use of resources.

869
00:36:23.872 --> 00:36:26.748
Absolutely. It's expensive to launch a Hercules in a crew.

870
00:36:26.784 --> 00:36:29.656
It's expensive to launch a cormorant in a crew. And what it means is

871
00:36:29.678 --> 00:36:32.148
that asset is potentially unavailable

872
00:36:32.324 --> 00:36:35.112
either then or later on for something that's actually

873
00:36:35.166 --> 00:36:35.592
going on.

874
00:36:35.646 --> 00:36:36.490
That's right.

875
00:36:37.180 --> 00:36:39.896
Helicopters can go almost anywhere. What is the coolest

876
00:36:39.928 --> 00:36:42.044
location you've ever landed or flown out of?

877
00:36:42.162 --> 00:36:44.812
We flew out of Saglic in

878
00:36:44.866 --> 00:36:47.836
northern Labrador. It's a disused airfield that was built by the

879
00:36:47.858 --> 00:36:50.648
Americans during the war. It was part of the Atlantic crossing

880
00:36:50.664 --> 00:36:51.176
routes.

881
00:36:51.288 --> 00:36:53.968
Oh, you mean the VHF route that you can take?

882
00:36:54.054 --> 00:36:54.544
Yeah.

883
00:36:54.662 --> 00:36:57.584
So neither of us can remember the name of it, but essentially, there was a

884
00:36:57.622 --> 00:37:00.544
bunch of stepping stones across the Atlantic from the days when

885
00:37:00.582 --> 00:37:03.004
people couldn't fly just directly over the Atlantic Ocean.

886
00:37:03.052 --> 00:37:06.020
That's right, yeah. And it also. It formed part of

887
00:37:06.090 --> 00:37:08.836
the defense of North America as well at various points in

888
00:37:08.858 --> 00:37:11.652
time. So we were staging out of there and

889
00:37:11.706 --> 00:37:14.512
flying into the Torn Gat Mountains National park

890
00:37:14.576 --> 00:37:17.576
with the permission and Cooperation of Parks Canada in

891
00:37:17.598 --> 00:37:20.456
order to conduct mountain flying as an

892
00:37:20.478 --> 00:37:23.416
exercise. So we would wake up in the morning, go

893
00:37:23.438 --> 00:37:26.324
out and fly in those mountains, landing at, uh, various

894
00:37:26.372 --> 00:37:29.288
locations, and, uh, then fly back at the end of

895
00:37:29.294 --> 00:37:32.284
the day and stage there again for the following day. And we

896
00:37:32.322 --> 00:37:35.276
did that. The squadron did that over a two week period and sent two

897
00:37:35.298 --> 00:37:38.172
crews up. And that was where my

898
00:37:38.226 --> 00:37:40.828
helicopter had a run in with the polar bear one night.

899
00:37:40.994 --> 00:37:41.660
Yeah.

900
00:37:41.810 --> 00:37:44.716
Well, you know what the next question I had was, what's

901
00:37:44.748 --> 00:37:47.728
the craziest situation you've ever found yourself in on the Cormorant? So

902
00:37:47.734 --> 00:37:49.216
I imagine that's the one.

903
00:37:49.318 --> 00:37:51.920
So, woke up in the morning and was

904
00:37:51.990 --> 00:37:54.796
told by the AC that our flight

905
00:37:54.828 --> 00:37:57.412
engineer had gone down and done the walk around and that

906
00:37:57.466 --> 00:38:00.324
the helicopter had been attacked by a polar bear. And I

907
00:38:00.362 --> 00:38:03.316
just looked at him and I laughed because I thought he was joking. There's no way

908
00:38:03.338 --> 00:38:05.092
this is real, right? Like, you got to be pulling my leg.

909
00:38:05.146 --> 00:38:07.060
You thought this was, like, part of a scenario or something?

910
00:38:07.130 --> 00:38:09.956
Absolutely. Or not even so much a scenario as

911
00:38:09.978 --> 00:38:12.756
like, uh, let's see if we can get one over on, like, is he

912
00:38:12.778 --> 00:38:13.428
awake today?

913
00:38:13.514 --> 00:38:13.812
Yeah.

914
00:38:13.866 --> 00:38:16.444
So turns out it was real. And, uh, I sent

915
00:38:16.482 --> 00:38:19.336
you the link to that one. You can find it on the CBC.

916
00:38:19.368 --> 00:38:20.172
It's still there.

917
00:38:20.306 --> 00:38:23.256
And if anyone is interested in seeing some of those articles, we'll

918
00:38:23.288 --> 00:38:25.784
be putting the links into the show notes.

919
00:38:25.912 --> 00:38:27.852
That was pretty interesting.

920
00:38:27.986 --> 00:38:30.944
And the response for how do we now

921
00:38:30.982 --> 00:38:33.328
get helicopter parts up to

922
00:38:33.414 --> 00:38:36.368
northernmost Labrador was really. It

923
00:38:36.374 --> 00:38:39.360
was interesting in retrospect. It was frustrating at the time to watch

924
00:38:39.430 --> 00:38:42.364
how the logistics had to unfold in order to get pieces

925
00:38:42.412 --> 00:38:45.264
from Greenwood all the way up to Goose Bay and then from

926
00:38:45.302 --> 00:38:47.464
Goose Bay all the way up to cyglic.

927
00:38:47.532 --> 00:38:49.248
Yeah, that sounds like it would be pretty complex.

928
00:38:49.344 --> 00:38:52.196
It was a little bit, um. Triple four squadron ended up bailing us

929
00:38:52.218 --> 00:38:54.390
out, so that was great of them to do. Um,

930
00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:57.736
and, uh, it just, again, goes to show that, uh, aviation is

931
00:38:57.758 --> 00:38:58.404
a team sport.

932
00:38:58.452 --> 00:39:01.288
Yeah, absolutely. So you've said to me in the

933
00:39:01.294 --> 00:39:04.132
past that you don't get shot at. The weather is your enemy.

934
00:39:04.276 --> 00:39:07.176
SAR in the Cormorant means you'll be doing challenging operations in

935
00:39:07.198 --> 00:39:10.024
poor conditions. I would imagine that hoisting from a ship in bad

936
00:39:10.062 --> 00:39:12.956
weather would be one of the most difficult situations. Can

937
00:39:12.978 --> 00:39:15.612
you describe some of the dangers involved and what it feels like?

938
00:39:15.666 --> 00:39:18.576
Yeah, that's where you make your money. You're there in

939
00:39:18.598 --> 00:39:21.244
the hover. Maybe you have arrived from an overwater

940
00:39:21.292 --> 00:39:24.000
transition down, which is allowing and

941
00:39:24.070 --> 00:39:26.588
directing and supervising

942
00:39:26.684 --> 00:39:29.036
and safeguarding the aircraft

943
00:39:29.068 --> 00:39:31.968
automation to bring you down to

944
00:39:32.054 --> 00:39:34.964
a hundred foot hover over whatever sea state

945
00:39:35.002 --> 00:39:37.844
is underneath you and you can come

946
00:39:37.882 --> 00:39:40.720
within a quarter mile using a radar paint

947
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:43.784
of your target, which in the case that we're talking about here,

948
00:39:43.822 --> 00:39:46.692
is going to be a boat, quite large boat,

949
00:39:46.756 --> 00:39:49.656
potentially, uh, a shipping vessel, a

950
00:39:49.678 --> 00:39:52.536
cargo container vessel. And

951
00:39:52.638 --> 00:39:55.476
at that point in time, as long as you can see

952
00:39:55.598 --> 00:39:58.204
the 100ft down to the

953
00:39:58.242 --> 00:40:00.668
water and you're quarter mile forward

954
00:40:00.834 --> 00:40:03.580
corresponding to your radar paint, a, uh, light

955
00:40:03.730 --> 00:40:06.700
which is illuminating the target from the target,

956
00:40:07.040 --> 00:40:09.100
then you can proceed.

957
00:40:09.520 --> 00:40:12.416
I don't know how that sounds to someone who has no experience flying over

958
00:40:12.438 --> 00:40:15.280
the water, but to me as an Aurora pilot, that sounds

959
00:40:15.350 --> 00:40:15.728
crazy.

960
00:40:15.814 --> 00:40:18.672
It's horrifying. Yeah, absolutely. You're like sitting there

961
00:40:18.726 --> 00:40:21.216
in the left seat with the AC, who probably has done

962
00:40:21.238 --> 00:40:23.808
this 20 or 30 times

963
00:40:23.894 --> 00:40:26.816
before in the right seat. And you're looking out the window

964
00:40:26.848 --> 00:40:29.716
at that light and going, there's no way, man, why are

965
00:40:29.738 --> 00:40:32.484
we doing this right now? And the answer is to try and save

966
00:40:32.522 --> 00:40:35.112
someone. And the helicopter will keep you

967
00:40:35.246 --> 00:40:38.232
safe and will allow you, if you

968
00:40:38.366 --> 00:40:41.076
treat it nicely and use the automation the way it's

969
00:40:41.108 --> 00:40:43.704
designed, to then close with that

970
00:40:43.742 --> 00:40:46.696
vessel until you can fly off of

971
00:40:46.718 --> 00:40:49.676
it visually, using a rat out hold function to

972
00:40:49.698 --> 00:40:52.524
keep the collective in the appropriate position

973
00:40:52.642 --> 00:40:55.244
so that the helicopter is going to

974
00:40:55.282 --> 00:40:58.216
then descend or climb to an altitude

975
00:40:58.248 --> 00:41:01.184
that you've set it to, corresponding to how high you want to be over

976
00:41:01.222 --> 00:41:03.904
the deck of the vessel while you're hoisting. And

977
00:41:03.942 --> 00:41:06.460
then the helicopter holds your heading

978
00:41:06.620 --> 00:41:09.148
and you are now flying

979
00:41:09.244 --> 00:41:12.144
against, uh, spring pressures. And

980
00:41:12.262 --> 00:41:15.124
with the aircraft trimmed out, tracking it

981
00:41:15.162 --> 00:41:18.084
in and out along a visual reference line over

982
00:41:18.122 --> 00:41:19.556
the vessel which is.

983
00:41:19.578 --> 00:41:22.036
Moving in the dark, you may or.

984
00:41:22.058 --> 00:41:24.884
May not have a horizon because maybe the Herc broke that night, maybe

985
00:41:24.922 --> 00:41:27.684
it's there and it's providing you flares, which gives you a horizon

986
00:41:27.732 --> 00:41:30.484
inside your ping pong ball, which it's a game changer,

987
00:41:30.532 --> 00:41:33.368
those flares. And you then will

988
00:41:33.454 --> 00:41:35.050
put a live

989
00:41:35.660 --> 00:41:38.396
person on that hook in the form of a

990
00:41:38.418 --> 00:41:41.292
Sartech, hoist them out to the deck, which again

991
00:41:41.346 --> 00:41:44.168
might be rising or falling 30ft, might be pitching

992
00:41:44.344 --> 00:41:47.016
1520 degrees, depending on the sea

993
00:41:47.048 --> 00:41:49.948
state, and put them onto the

994
00:41:49.954 --> 00:41:52.952
vessel to then go and render medical aid or potentially

995
00:41:53.016 --> 00:41:55.756
just put them on the vessel long enough to get someone into a rescue.

996
00:41:55.788 --> 00:41:57.936
Basket and then do the whole thing.

997
00:41:57.958 --> 00:42:00.704
Over again to get them off. So when you're doing your

998
00:42:00.742 --> 00:42:03.456
insertion, generally what you do is you

999
00:42:03.478 --> 00:42:06.096
insert two Sartex and a piece of equipment. So that's

1000
00:42:06.128 --> 00:42:08.550
three, move into the rest position,

1001
00:42:09.080 --> 00:42:11.824
wait for them to do what they need to do because you can't

1002
00:42:11.872 --> 00:42:14.200
afford to leave the hover because

1003
00:42:14.350 --> 00:42:17.160
it's such an intense

1004
00:42:17.580 --> 00:42:20.264
and difficult procedure to arrive back in that

1005
00:42:20.302 --> 00:42:22.728
position that you're better off just burning the

1006
00:42:22.734 --> 00:42:25.304
fuel instead of trying to

1007
00:42:25.502 --> 00:42:28.316
end up burning more fuel anyway to come back to that

1008
00:42:28.418 --> 00:42:30.956
position. And then you need to then go

1009
00:42:30.978 --> 00:42:33.916
in, recover a, uh, Sartech, the

1010
00:42:33.938 --> 00:42:36.664
equipment potentially from the rest if there's good guideline

1011
00:42:36.712 --> 00:42:39.452
available. And then the second

1012
00:42:39.506 --> 00:42:42.304
Sartech again. So you're doing this six times

1013
00:42:42.502 --> 00:42:45.436
in the pitch dark on night vision goggles. So you're

1014
00:42:45.468 --> 00:42:47.984
looking through toilet paper tubes now down and

1015
00:42:48.022 --> 00:42:50.864
right, and you are leaning out over your

1016
00:42:50.902 --> 00:42:53.684
seat probably three to six

1017
00:42:53.722 --> 00:42:56.612
inches. Your right shoulder is out

1018
00:42:56.666 --> 00:42:59.604
of the seat, your head is probably two

1019
00:42:59.642 --> 00:43:02.596
inches from the window, and you're looking down at like

1020
00:43:02.618 --> 00:43:05.456
a 30 degree angle at your references. Hopefully

1021
00:43:05.488 --> 00:43:08.356
you have the ability to scan up from time to time underneath your

1022
00:43:08.378 --> 00:43:11.304
goggles if you're wearing them. Some people tend not to, to look

1023
00:43:11.342 --> 00:43:14.328
at your horizon, which is supposed to be your primary reference, but let's be

1024
00:43:14.334 --> 00:43:17.128
honest, maybe it's not there. And you

1025
00:43:17.214 --> 00:43:19.790
have people who are dangling from a one,

1026
00:43:19.790 --> 00:43:22.776
uh, piece of cabling with a hook

1027
00:43:22.808 --> 00:43:25.228
on the end and trying not to bash them off the.

1028
00:43:25.234 --> 00:43:27.276
Side of the superstructure on their way up.

1029
00:43:27.458 --> 00:43:30.416
I just sort of tried to picture myself doing that

1030
00:43:30.518 --> 00:43:33.232
and it feels so uncomfortable and

1031
00:43:33.286 --> 00:43:36.256
so scary. The first time you do

1032
00:43:36.278 --> 00:43:38.220
that. It must be outrageous.

1033
00:43:38.300 --> 00:43:41.276
It's daunting, absolutely. But you don't

1034
00:43:41.308 --> 00:43:43.168
start in that situation. You end up there.

1035
00:43:43.254 --> 00:43:43.552
Right.

1036
00:43:43.606 --> 00:43:46.276
So that's how we get through our upgrade process, is to go and be.

1037
00:43:46.298 --> 00:43:48.996
Able to do that after maybe less.

1038
00:43:49.018 --> 00:43:51.556
Than 500, maybe more like 800 hours on

1039
00:43:51.578 --> 00:43:54.116
type. When you start out in Comox on the

1040
00:43:54.138 --> 00:43:56.964
OTF, you do it to the, uh, black duck,

1041
00:43:57.012 --> 00:43:59.784
which is. It's like a tugboat sort of situation.

1042
00:43:59.902 --> 00:44:02.520
And you're doing it in the Georgia Strait, which is a

1043
00:44:02.670 --> 00:44:05.656
relatively calm body of water because of how

1044
00:44:05.678 --> 00:44:08.420
confined it is being between Vancouver island and the mainland.

1045
00:44:08.580 --> 00:44:11.384
And you are generally doing it with a lot of cultural

1046
00:44:11.432 --> 00:44:14.236
lighting around and you're not doing it in

1047
00:44:14.258 --> 00:44:17.256
fog. There is training limits that apply as opposed

1048
00:44:17.288 --> 00:44:20.136
to the SAR limits. So you need to crawl

1049
00:44:20.168 --> 00:44:23.056
before you can walk. You need to walk before you can run. And what I

1050
00:44:23.078 --> 00:44:25.824
just described to you is running full tilt with your eyes

1051
00:44:25.862 --> 00:44:26.780
closed in the dark.

1052
00:44:26.860 --> 00:44:27.424
Yeah. Right.

1053
00:44:27.462 --> 00:44:29.852
So even when you open them, it's a little disorienting.

1054
00:44:29.996 --> 00:44:32.996
So that's as bad as it can ever get.

1055
00:44:33.178 --> 00:44:34.852
It's almost always better than that.

1056
00:44:34.906 --> 00:44:36.020
How does that feel?

1057
00:44:36.170 --> 00:44:38.596
It's daunting at first. Absolutely.

1058
00:44:38.698 --> 00:44:40.980
And when you're there, it's

1059
00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:42.916
tense and.

1060
00:44:42.938 --> 00:44:45.896
You need to be able to relax enough to be able

1061
00:44:45.918 --> 00:44:48.730
to do it right. Like it's all about fine motor control

1062
00:44:49.100 --> 00:44:51.864
and the interface that you have

1063
00:44:51.902 --> 00:44:54.520
with the machine. And so you're using

1064
00:44:54.670 --> 00:44:57.508
your proprioception in your joints. Hopefully you've

1065
00:44:57.524 --> 00:45:00.396
anchored your wrist to your thigh, you have

1066
00:45:00.418 --> 00:45:03.388
your feet guarding the pedals, but you're allowing the aircraft to

1067
00:45:03.394 --> 00:45:06.076
fly. Your heading, you have your hand on the

1068
00:45:06.098 --> 00:45:09.080
collective, but really it's the aircraft keeping you

1069
00:45:09.090 --> 00:45:11.792
out of the water. So all you need to think about now is

1070
00:45:11.846 --> 00:45:14.384
moving your fingertips and you just

1071
00:45:14.502 --> 00:45:17.484
think forward and right. And it doesn't

1072
00:45:17.532 --> 00:45:19.856
matter that the

1073
00:45:19.878 --> 00:45:22.416
boat is pitching, bobbing and

1074
00:45:22.438 --> 00:45:25.050
weaving, you're just flying your line in.

1075
00:45:25.050 --> 00:45:25.470
Mhm.

1076
00:45:25.470 --> 00:45:28.292
And as long as you can keep the helicopter steady and just make those fine

1077
00:45:28.346 --> 00:45:31.316
movements as you're doing it, everything is going

1078
00:45:31.338 --> 00:45:34.116
to be a lot smoother. It's when you start overthinking it, it's when

1079
00:45:34.138 --> 00:45:37.048
you tense up and allow gross motor control to

1080
00:45:37.054 --> 00:45:38.724
take over. That's when things start to go sideways.

1081
00:45:38.772 --> 00:45:40.100
And people can get hurt.

1082
00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:42.916
Yeah, that just sounds crazy. As a fixed

1083
00:45:42.948 --> 00:45:45.492
wing guy and as someone whose

1084
00:45:45.556 --> 00:45:48.536
distances are normally measured in hundreds of feet above

1085
00:45:48.568 --> 00:45:51.496
the water and much larger fractions of a mile

1086
00:45:51.528 --> 00:45:53.628
from a vessel, that's crazy.

1087
00:45:53.714 --> 00:45:53.964
Yeah.

1088
00:45:54.002 --> 00:45:56.728
So from a fishing vessel or like the Coast Guard

1089
00:45:56.744 --> 00:45:59.404
cutters, we tend to, uh, for

1090
00:45:59.442 --> 00:46:02.256
hoisting, be 35ft off the water when

1091
00:46:02.278 --> 00:46:05.116
you're doing a boat to something that small, simply to maintain

1092
00:46:05.148 --> 00:46:05.996
visual references.

1093
00:46:06.108 --> 00:46:06.160
Wow.

1094
00:46:06.160 --> 00:46:08.780
Uh, because when you lose those virtual references,

1095
00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:11.600
you lose the ability to not hit the boat for sure.

1096
00:46:11.670 --> 00:46:12.144
Right.

1097
00:46:12.262 --> 00:46:15.108
And we've had it before, and I was in the back of the

1098
00:46:15.114 --> 00:46:18.016
helicopter where we have settled onto a fiberglass antenna

1099
00:46:18.048 --> 00:46:20.948
and punctured a fuel cell. To my knowledge, that's only happened once in the

1100
00:46:20.954 --> 00:46:23.888
history of flying cormorants. But frankly, I'm

1101
00:46:23.904 --> 00:46:26.888
surprised that we don't hit more boats more often. And it comes down to the

1102
00:46:26.894 --> 00:46:29.492
training that we are provided

1103
00:46:29.556 --> 00:46:32.536
and the ability to practice that

1104
00:46:32.558 --> 00:46:35.530
we're given. And you know,

1105
00:46:35.980 --> 00:46:38.888
when you're coming up to a boat, whether today is going to

1106
00:46:38.894 --> 00:46:41.816
be a good day or not, based on how tense you're feeling

1107
00:46:41.848 --> 00:46:44.556
and based on how your reaction to the

1108
00:46:44.578 --> 00:46:47.436
conditions are going, and there are situations where you

1109
00:46:47.458 --> 00:46:50.444
just won't put a startech on the hook for training because

1110
00:46:50.562 --> 00:46:53.456
it's not worth it. So if you can get some dry runs, not

1111
00:46:53.478 --> 00:46:56.128
even necessarily putting the empty hook down,

1112
00:46:56.294 --> 00:46:59.216
maybe that's what you need for the night. Maybe that's your

1113
00:46:59.238 --> 00:47:02.108
small victory, and every little bit helps, right? It's

1114
00:47:02.124 --> 00:47:05.076
all about making sure that everyone can come home

1115
00:47:05.098 --> 00:47:07.892
in one piece at the end of the day. And for training,

1116
00:47:07.946 --> 00:47:09.920
there are some risks that just aren't acceptable.

1117
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:11.270
Yeah, that makes sense.

1118
00:47:12.040 --> 00:47:14.804
Now, we just touched on this a little bit when you talked

1119
00:47:14.842 --> 00:47:17.668
about sometimes the training you get is not the

1120
00:47:17.674 --> 00:47:20.536
training you expected, but it can be enough. You've mentioned to me that

1121
00:47:20.558 --> 00:47:23.432
in SAR, even if the outcome isn't what we were looking for,

1122
00:47:23.486 --> 00:47:26.456
the mission can still be successful. Can you give me an example of this?

1123
00:47:26.558 --> 00:47:26.872
Yeah.

1124
00:47:26.926 --> 00:47:29.708
So, one of the missions that I flew, we went out to

1125
00:47:29.794 --> 00:47:32.616
the easternmost part of southern

1126
00:47:32.648 --> 00:47:35.596
Quebec, and We were looking for, uh, someone who had

1127
00:47:35.618 --> 00:47:38.456
been fishing from shore, and we didn't

1128
00:47:38.488 --> 00:47:41.068
end up finding them. They had

1129
00:47:41.154 --> 00:47:44.048
tied themselves to an anchor point. It was like a

1130
00:47:44.054 --> 00:47:46.956
lobster pot that had been weighted down, and we ended up finding

1131
00:47:46.988 --> 00:47:49.884
that. And it was night, it was dark.

1132
00:47:49.932 --> 00:47:52.480
We were able to be high enough and shine our light down enough.

1133
00:47:52.550 --> 00:47:55.284
And there was enough light that night as well,

1134
00:47:55.322 --> 00:47:58.244
that on the MVGs, we could see the bottom quite

1135
00:47:58.282 --> 00:48:00.948
clearly. And all the way to the drop off, we were

1136
00:48:01.034 --> 00:48:03.428
able to crawl around at

1137
00:48:03.434 --> 00:48:06.212
130ft, looking straight down, using the night

1138
00:48:06.266 --> 00:48:09.252
sun, determined positively that they just weren't there anymore.

1139
00:48:09.316 --> 00:48:12.104
And the night sun is like a super bright spotlight, right?

1140
00:48:12.142 --> 00:48:15.016
Absolutely, yeah. It's bright enough that one of the things that you

1141
00:48:15.038 --> 00:48:17.816
can't do is refuel the

1142
00:48:17.838 --> 00:48:19.304
helicopter if it's been on within.

1143
00:48:19.342 --> 00:48:21.144
30 minutes because of the heat it generates.

1144
00:48:21.192 --> 00:48:22.104
Because of the heat it generates.

1145
00:48:22.152 --> 00:48:22.828
Wow. Yeah.

1146
00:48:22.914 --> 00:48:25.756
So even though we didn't find that gentleman that

1147
00:48:25.778 --> 00:48:28.336
night, we were able to say that he wasn't there

1148
00:48:28.358 --> 00:48:31.084
anymore. Search is accomplished. Rescue

1149
00:48:31.132 --> 00:48:32.290
just couldn't happen.

1150
00:48:32.290 --> 00:48:32.650
Mhm.

1151
00:48:32.650 --> 00:48:35.628
And that's frustrating, but sometimes that's

1152
00:48:35.644 --> 00:48:36.410
the way it is.

1153
00:48:36.410 --> 00:48:37.170
Mhm.

1154
00:48:37.170 --> 00:48:39.820
And the reason for the listeners,

1155
00:48:39.980 --> 00:48:42.932
if I'm interpreting this correctly, the reason that that

1156
00:48:42.986 --> 00:48:45.844
can still be a somewhat positive mission outcome is

1157
00:48:45.882 --> 00:48:48.432
because without that certainty,

1158
00:48:48.576 --> 00:48:51.156
the search may go on for days, weeks,

1159
00:48:51.338 --> 00:48:54.212
depending on, I'm assuming, various conditions, and

1160
00:48:54.266 --> 00:48:57.224
the search can end up using assets and people for a much longer

1161
00:48:57.262 --> 00:49:00.136
period of time. Even though it's very unlikely that you

1162
00:49:00.158 --> 00:49:01.176
will find that person.

1163
00:49:01.278 --> 00:49:01.640
Right.

1164
00:49:01.710 --> 00:49:04.340
And more than that, it's

1165
00:49:04.420 --> 00:49:06.824
about the people that they've left behind.

1166
00:49:07.022 --> 00:49:09.672
So we are able to say positively

1167
00:49:09.816 --> 00:49:12.716
we found what he was using to anchor himself and

1168
00:49:12.738 --> 00:49:15.676
he wasn't attached to it anymore. And if he's not back on

1169
00:49:15.698 --> 00:49:17.836
shore, then he's somewhere else.

1170
00:49:17.938 --> 00:49:18.348
Yeah.

1171
00:49:18.434 --> 00:49:21.388
And that's really sad to have to say to someone, and I'm glad that I'm

1172
00:49:21.394 --> 00:49:24.144
not in the position and haven't been in the position to have to do that to

1173
00:49:24.182 --> 00:49:27.136
someone directly. But that's effectively the

1174
00:49:27.158 --> 00:49:30.128
conclusion that I came to and the information that I had to

1175
00:49:30.134 --> 00:49:32.992
relay through RCC and Ultimately

1176
00:49:33.136 --> 00:49:35.508
that hopefully provides a little bit of

1177
00:49:35.514 --> 00:49:36.170
closure.

1178
00:49:36.170 --> 00:49:36.430
Mhm.

1179
00:49:36.430 --> 00:49:39.204
A measure of closure, instead of just

1180
00:49:39.242 --> 00:49:39.744
wondering.

1181
00:49:39.792 --> 00:49:40.004
Yeah.

1182
00:49:40.042 --> 00:49:42.964
And so when he doesn't come home

1183
00:49:43.082 --> 00:49:45.988
and the SQ are out and they're scouring the

1184
00:49:45.994 --> 00:49:48.630
shoreline and he's not on the shoreline, what's the, uh,

1185
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:51.824
de Quebec? It's the provincial police force. And when they've

1186
00:49:51.872 --> 00:49:54.784
scoured the shoreline and he's not on the shoreline, and the boats

1187
00:49:54.832 --> 00:49:57.756
have been out and they haven't found him, and the helicopter has been

1188
00:49:57.778 --> 00:50:00.700
out, and they see what's on the bottom that no one else has been able to get to

1189
00:50:00.770 --> 00:50:03.576
or look at yet, then hopefully

1190
00:50:03.608 --> 00:50:05.870
there aren't any more lingering questions.

1191
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:10.208
What would you say are the most memorable flights you've had on the

1192
00:50:10.214 --> 00:50:11.004
Cormorant?

1193
00:50:11.132 --> 00:50:13.808
The ones where you take someone

1194
00:50:13.974 --> 00:50:16.656
who, you know, would have

1195
00:50:16.678 --> 00:50:19.356
died and successfully relay

1196
00:50:19.388 --> 00:50:21.670
them to the next level of care?

1197
00:50:22.680 --> 00:50:25.620
There are people who, hand on heart,

1198
00:50:25.690 --> 00:50:28.676
I can say that I and the

1199
00:50:28.698 --> 00:50:31.524
crew directly participated in

1200
00:50:31.562 --> 00:50:32.644
saving their life.

1201
00:50:32.762 --> 00:50:35.044
For real, not

1202
00:50:35.082 --> 00:50:35.840
hypothetically.

1203
00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:36.708
That's pretty amazing.

1204
00:50:36.794 --> 00:50:37.252
It is.

1205
00:50:37.306 --> 00:50:40.196
And that is job satisfaction. That's

1206
00:50:40.228 --> 00:50:41.190
as good as it gets.

1207
00:50:41.190 --> 00:50:41.950
Mhm.

1208
00:50:41.950 --> 00:50:44.936
Those, for me, are the flights that are most memorable is when I can look back at

1209
00:50:44.958 --> 00:50:47.068
it and think, yeah, we did that.

1210
00:50:47.154 --> 00:50:47.788
That's awesome.

1211
00:50:47.874 --> 00:50:48.510
Yeah.

1212
00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:50.716
What is the best day you've ever.

1213
00:50:50.738 --> 00:50:52.056
Had in the cormorant?

1214
00:50:52.248 --> 00:50:54.696
We had gone out to the ILA Mele

1215
00:50:54.808 --> 00:50:57.580
and taken a young boy who

1216
00:50:57.650 --> 00:51:00.472
was potentially having acute appendicitis

1217
00:51:00.536 --> 00:51:03.320
from an outlying island to the main island.

1218
00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:06.400
It was, uh, from a nursing station to a hospital sort of situation

1219
00:51:06.470 --> 00:51:09.216
where we were increasing the level of care he was going to be received so he could be

1220
00:51:09.238 --> 00:51:12.044
assessed properly. And hearing

1221
00:51:12.092 --> 00:51:14.996
from the guys in the back just how stoked he was to be

1222
00:51:15.018 --> 00:51:17.350
on the helicopter and how

1223
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:20.564
it was such a big deal for him and his parents to be on

1224
00:51:20.602 --> 00:51:23.268
board and to be able to give that to them

1225
00:51:23.354 --> 00:51:26.088
where they wouldn't have been able to get across on a boat that night because of the

1226
00:51:26.094 --> 00:51:28.964
weather, and just realizing

1227
00:51:29.012 --> 00:51:29.848
that we were able to.

1228
00:51:29.854 --> 00:51:31.096
Do that for them. Yeah.

1229
00:51:31.118 --> 00:51:34.116
So just giving them that positive experience, and it's

1230
00:51:34.148 --> 00:51:37.064
kind of interesting. It's a combination of, like, they got to

1231
00:51:37.102 --> 00:51:40.024
enjoy the ride, but also they're able

1232
00:51:40.062 --> 00:51:42.876
to have that weight off their shoulders of, is our

1233
00:51:42.898 --> 00:51:45.704
son going to be okay? Are we going to be able to get him proper medical

1234
00:51:45.752 --> 00:51:48.684
care you guys were able to provide, right?

1235
00:51:48.722 --> 00:51:48.972
Yeah.

1236
00:51:49.026 --> 00:51:51.984
And looking in retrospect, he

1237
00:51:52.022 --> 00:51:54.976
was going to be fine. And from the way

1238
00:51:54.998 --> 00:51:57.932
that he was behaving on the aircraft, it was clear to the Sartex

1239
00:51:57.996 --> 00:52:00.624
that that wasn't what was going on.

1240
00:52:00.742 --> 00:52:03.536
But if it had been or if it had been allowed to

1241
00:52:03.558 --> 00:52:06.416
develop into that, then him being

1242
00:52:06.438 --> 00:52:09.316
off of that island that night instead of after the storm had

1243
00:52:09.338 --> 00:52:12.308
been through, whether it was the next day or the day after, that could have made a

1244
00:52:12.314 --> 00:52:13.100
huge difference.

1245
00:52:13.100 --> 00:52:14.660
Mhm.

1246
00:52:14.660 --> 00:52:15.976
What is the hardest day you've ever.

1247
00:52:15.998 --> 00:52:17.240
Had on the cormorant?

1248
00:52:17.580 --> 00:52:20.376
There was a mission where we did, where there

1249
00:52:20.558 --> 00:52:23.380
was a fishing vessel that was sinking,

1250
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:26.364
uh, the Mucktown girl. And it was off of the

1251
00:52:26.402 --> 00:52:29.192
coast of Kanso in Nova Scotia,

1252
00:52:29.256 --> 00:52:32.200
sort of south and east of Cape Breton.

1253
00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:35.100
And, um, it had

1254
00:52:35.170 --> 00:52:37.896
been towed by the Canadian Coast

1255
00:52:37.928 --> 00:52:40.860
Guard and the tow line broke because of the conditions

1256
00:52:41.020 --> 00:52:43.840
and it started taking on water.

1257
00:52:43.910 --> 00:52:46.864
And so everyone zipped up their immersion suits and hopped into

1258
00:52:46.902 --> 00:52:49.632
the life raft. And then while

1259
00:52:49.766 --> 00:52:52.340
they were getting off of the life raft

1260
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:55.568
and onto the Coast Guard vessel,

1261
00:52:55.744 --> 00:52:58.676
four of them made it onto the deck and one

1262
00:52:58.698 --> 00:52:58.836
of.

1263
00:52:58.858 --> 00:53:00.950
Them made it into the water

1264
00:53:01.640 --> 00:53:04.616
and we found him,

1265
00:53:04.798 --> 00:53:06.970
which is good. But

1266
00:53:07.740 --> 00:53:10.616
when we took

1267
00:53:10.638 --> 00:53:11.048
him out of.

1268
00:53:11.054 --> 00:53:13.816
The water and brought him into the cabin and the Sartex were doing

1269
00:53:13.838 --> 00:53:16.636
CPR on him in the back, that's when it

1270
00:53:16.658 --> 00:53:19.564
became real that not everyone

1271
00:53:19.682 --> 00:53:22.476
that we bring into the helicopter is going to walk off of

1272
00:53:22.498 --> 00:53:24.350
it. Uh, and

1273
00:53:25.600 --> 00:53:28.284
that was a challenging day for

1274
00:53:28.322 --> 00:53:31.196
me. It was a challenging day for the Sartex

1275
00:53:31.228 --> 00:53:34.016
in the back. And just the randomness of

1276
00:53:34.038 --> 00:53:36.570
it, that's what I think I had, uh,

1277
00:53:36.822 --> 00:53:39.712
trouble with the most was why

1278
00:53:39.766 --> 00:53:42.756
was it this guy? Why didn't he make

1279
00:53:42.778 --> 00:53:43.584
it onto the deck?

1280
00:53:43.632 --> 00:53:46.260
Yeah, because they were basically home free.

1281
00:53:46.330 --> 00:53:49.300
Yeah, pretty much after a bunch of really

1282
00:53:49.370 --> 00:53:51.248
crazy incidents.

1283
00:53:51.424 --> 00:53:52.052
That's right.

1284
00:53:52.106 --> 00:53:54.388
And then we were going anyway

1285
00:53:54.474 --> 00:53:56.788
because they like to be

1286
00:53:56.954 --> 00:53:59.928
proactive with getting a cormorant into the air. Like I said, we have

1287
00:53:59.934 --> 00:54:02.840
2 hours to do it and then we have whatever

1288
00:54:02.910 --> 00:54:05.688
transit time it's going to take to get there. So by the time

1289
00:54:05.854 --> 00:54:08.664
this vessel needing a tow turns into

1290
00:54:08.702 --> 00:54:11.612
the situation where there's a man in the water now, if enough

1291
00:54:11.666 --> 00:54:14.444
time has elapsed, then the outcome isn't always

1292
00:54:14.482 --> 00:54:17.150
guaranteed. And that's sort of what we ran into that day.

1293
00:54:17.520 --> 00:54:17.884
Yeah.

1294
00:54:17.922 --> 00:54:20.864
And it comes back to the idea that

1295
00:54:20.902 --> 00:54:23.856
you can't save everybody. And struggling, um, with

1296
00:54:23.878 --> 00:54:26.732
that early on and reframing it made dealing with that incident

1297
00:54:26.796 --> 00:54:29.136
earlier, but it still took some.

1298
00:54:29.158 --> 00:54:30.848
Time to work through. Yeah.

1299
00:54:30.934 --> 00:54:33.330
How did you work through that incident in particular?

1300
00:54:33.700 --> 00:54:35.732
That one in particular? I took a day off.

1301
00:54:35.786 --> 00:54:36.004
Yeah.

1302
00:54:36.042 --> 00:54:38.544
That's what it comes down to when you're a shift worker,

1303
00:54:38.592 --> 00:54:41.396
you end up with days that you can sort

1304
00:54:41.418 --> 00:54:44.388
of place on the schedule as days off, where if you were meant to be.

1305
00:54:44.394 --> 00:54:45.988
In the office, you're not.

1306
00:54:46.074 --> 00:54:48.904
You use one of the days that you're out instead. And I

1307
00:54:48.942 --> 00:54:51.864
just went and spent time with the family, and that's what it's always

1308
00:54:51.902 --> 00:54:54.616
been for me, is, um, not

1309
00:54:54.718 --> 00:54:57.208
getting away from work or disconnecting from work

1310
00:54:57.374 --> 00:55:00.332
necessarily as the solution to these things,

1311
00:55:00.386 --> 00:55:03.324
but just getting the break and taking the pause that you need

1312
00:55:03.362 --> 00:55:04.792
to be able to come back to it fully.

1313
00:55:04.856 --> 00:55:05.470
Yeah.

1314
00:55:06.320 --> 00:55:09.096
As, uh, we've been talking about. Unfortunately, USAR folks

1315
00:55:09.128 --> 00:55:12.112
do see times where people don't make it. What is the most

1316
00:55:12.166 --> 00:55:14.736
preventable way you see people lose their lives?

1317
00:55:14.918 --> 00:55:17.840
It comes back to life jackets and

1318
00:55:17.910 --> 00:55:20.816
the decision whether or not to wear them. For me,

1319
00:55:20.838 --> 00:55:23.776
it's an easy yes, and I don't know where the line is between being on

1320
00:55:23.798 --> 00:55:26.608
a ferry in BC where I don't actually need a life jacket, and I'm

1321
00:55:26.624 --> 00:55:29.204
comfortable walking around on that boat, not needing one,

1322
00:55:29.322 --> 00:55:32.196
and being in a, uh, kayak. And

1323
00:55:32.298 --> 00:55:34.856
it just boggles my mind to see people

1324
00:55:35.038 --> 00:55:37.704
paddling around national parks without wearing them or

1325
00:55:37.742 --> 00:55:40.410
canoeists sitting on them to make a cushion because

1326
00:55:41.500 --> 00:55:44.280
the seat of their canoe is hard and it's hurting their butt.

1327
00:55:45.100 --> 00:55:47.896
I know people who have drowned because they weren't wearing their

1328
00:55:47.918 --> 00:55:50.764
life jackets, and I've searched for people all night

1329
00:55:50.882 --> 00:55:53.400
who have drowned because they weren't wearing their life jackets.

1330
00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:56.232
And it's a topic of conversation

1331
00:55:56.296 --> 00:55:59.196
that happens a lot in the cockpit and in the

1332
00:55:59.218 --> 00:56:02.188
lines of the Sur units when you go out and you're looking for someone who's

1333
00:56:02.204 --> 00:56:05.004
fallen overboard and it's like, well, were they wearing a life jacket?

1334
00:56:05.052 --> 00:56:07.952
And you feel for the family

1335
00:56:08.006 --> 00:56:10.848
of these people who end up in the water, they're not wearing a

1336
00:56:10.854 --> 00:56:13.364
life jacket. It's the North Atlantic. Like, it's got to be four

1337
00:56:13.402 --> 00:56:13.872
degrees.

1338
00:56:13.936 --> 00:56:16.784
Maybe, and it could get up double.

1339
00:56:16.832 --> 00:56:19.664
Digits later on in the year, like in the summertime.

1340
00:56:19.712 --> 00:56:22.630
But it's an unforgiving environment, and

1341
00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:26.264
not choosing to do everything you

1342
00:56:26.302 --> 00:56:27.096
can to.

1343
00:56:27.118 --> 00:56:29.976
Get out of that water just doesn't make sense to

1344
00:56:29.998 --> 00:56:30.472
me.

1345
00:56:30.606 --> 00:56:33.368
Yeah, we used to get briefed on the survival times

1346
00:56:33.454 --> 00:56:36.452
before every mission we flew over the Atlantic.

1347
00:56:36.516 --> 00:56:39.496
And without a survival suit, a lot of the year it's

1348
00:56:39.528 --> 00:56:42.124
minutes. So if you aren't wearing a life

1349
00:56:42.162 --> 00:56:44.380
jacket and you can't be easily recovered,

1350
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:45.976
you're in trouble.

1351
00:56:46.088 --> 00:56:48.744
And something that people don't think about is the gasping

1352
00:56:48.792 --> 00:56:49.272
reflex.

1353
00:56:49.336 --> 00:56:49.756
Right?

1354
00:56:49.858 --> 00:56:52.228
So if you're not floating while you're

1355
00:56:52.264 --> 00:56:54.848
gasping, it's not going to go well for you.

1356
00:56:54.934 --> 00:56:57.776
So if you can keep your head above the water by

1357
00:56:57.798 --> 00:57:00.464
wearing a life jacket for long enough to get your

1358
00:57:00.502 --> 00:57:03.312
first scream out, and if you're in the water for 15

1359
00:57:03.366 --> 00:57:05.796
minutes while the boat's going the wrong way and someone notices and then they turn

1360
00:57:05.818 --> 00:57:08.628
around, your ODs are way better than waiting for a

1361
00:57:08.634 --> 00:57:11.556
cormorant to come and find you in the middle of the night. It's just

1362
00:57:11.578 --> 00:57:12.340
not going to go well.

1363
00:57:12.410 --> 00:57:13.030
Yeah.

1364
00:57:13.560 --> 00:57:16.330
All right, we're going to switch to a little bit of a, uh,

1365
00:57:17.160 --> 00:57:20.136
lighter fare in 30 seconds or less. If

1366
00:57:20.158 --> 00:57:22.964
I'm a pilot in training, why should I want to fly the Cormaron?

1367
00:57:23.012 --> 00:57:25.290
What makes it unique and who would it appeal to?

1368
00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:28.556
The direct impact that you can have on

1369
00:57:28.578 --> 00:57:30.830
people's lives is

1370
00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:34.328
huge for job satisfaction.

1371
00:57:34.504 --> 00:57:36.956
And if that appeals to you,

1372
00:57:37.058 --> 00:57:39.330
I don't need to say anything else.

1373
00:57:40.180 --> 00:57:42.370
If you want another reason,

1374
00:57:42.740 --> 00:57:45.440
it's the largest helicopter

1375
00:57:45.940 --> 00:57:48.928
that I know of that someone

1376
00:57:49.014 --> 00:57:51.452
was going to give the keys.

1377
00:57:51.596 --> 00:57:54.516
To you and say, go have lunch with your

1378
00:57:54.538 --> 00:57:56.550
crew. That's awesome. Yeah.

1379
00:57:57.160 --> 00:57:59.956
We're down to the last three questions. We always ask

1380
00:57:59.978 --> 00:58:02.964
these questions. What is the most important thing you do

1381
00:58:03.002 --> 00:58:04.836
to keep yourself ready for your job?

1382
00:58:05.018 --> 00:58:07.956
Everyone talks about getting in the books,

1383
00:58:08.068 --> 00:58:11.064
and that's true. So I'm going to pick something different. Get the rest you

1384
00:58:11.102 --> 00:58:13.896
need and get the recharge that you

1385
00:58:13.918 --> 00:58:16.764
need. When we have the opportunity to take

1386
00:58:16.802 --> 00:58:19.404
vacation, I always do. When we have the

1387
00:58:19.442 --> 00:58:22.396
opportunity to do things as a family, I

1388
00:58:22.418 --> 00:58:25.340
always do. And in Sar, where

1389
00:58:25.410 --> 00:58:28.140
shift work is challenging to manage,

1390
00:58:28.210 --> 00:58:31.084
sometimes in terms of family obligations, in terms of

1391
00:58:31.122 --> 00:58:34.016
lining up with regular weekends, you need

1392
00:58:34.038 --> 00:58:37.024
to take those opportunities with two hands and make the most of them.

1393
00:58:37.142 --> 00:58:40.032
So that's something that I've always made a conscious effort to do,

1394
00:58:40.086 --> 00:58:42.736
and I think it served me really well, and I

1395
00:58:42.758 --> 00:58:45.732
recommend it to anyone. Take the time you can with your family

1396
00:58:45.786 --> 00:58:47.350
to do everything that you can together.

1397
00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:48.308
Yeah.

1398
00:58:48.394 --> 00:58:50.836
You can't say this enough. The job in the Air

1399
00:58:50.858 --> 00:58:53.824
Force, it's never ending. And if you're not careful,

1400
00:58:53.872 --> 00:58:56.744
it will take over your life. You are responsible for

1401
00:58:56.782 --> 00:58:59.588
setting those boundaries and for making sure that you're

1402
00:58:59.604 --> 00:59:02.436
striking a balance, because there's

1403
00:59:02.468 --> 00:59:05.416
always going to be a call for you to come in and

1404
00:59:05.518 --> 00:59:08.344
do the job. You have to make sure that you're balancing

1405
00:59:08.392 --> 00:59:08.652
that.

1406
00:59:08.706 --> 00:59:09.452
That's right.

1407
00:59:09.586 --> 00:59:12.508
And give that same ability to the.

1408
00:59:12.514 --> 00:59:14.350
People who work for you. Mhm.

1409
00:59:14.350 --> 00:59:15.790
That's a really good point.

1410
00:59:17.120 --> 00:59:19.440
What do you think makes a good pilot?

1411
00:59:20.340 --> 00:59:23.264
The trick, and I'm still learning it, of

1412
00:59:23.462 --> 00:59:26.368
knowing when your best that day

1413
00:59:26.454 --> 00:59:27.664
isn't going to be good enough.

1414
00:59:27.702 --> 00:59:30.368
That day, if you wake up and.

1415
00:59:30.374 --> 00:59:32.630
You'Re tired, maybe you can push through.

1416
00:59:33.160 --> 00:59:34.628
Maybe it's a bad idea.

1417
00:59:34.794 --> 00:59:35.990
That's a judgment call.

1418
00:59:35.990 --> 00:59:36.690
Mhm.

1419
00:59:36.690 --> 00:59:39.028
And you want to put yourself in a situation

1420
00:59:39.194 --> 00:59:42.000
where you don't need your superior

1421
00:59:42.080 --> 00:59:44.856
skill to get you out of a situation that your

1422
00:59:44.878 --> 00:59:45.910
judgment put you in.

1423
00:59:45.910 --> 00:59:47.370
Mhm.

1424
00:59:47.370 --> 00:59:50.324
Yeah, I've heard that saying before and it's

1425
00:59:50.372 --> 00:59:53.236
such a good one. Everyone wants to be a hotshot

1426
00:59:53.268 --> 00:59:56.040
pilot. We all want to work hard and

1427
00:59:56.110 --> 00:59:58.440
be the best in the business. But

1428
00:59:58.590 --> 01:00:01.180
hopefully, like you've said, you're not putting yourself in a position

1429
01:00:01.250 --> 01:00:03.980
where you're using everything you have

1430
01:00:04.050 --> 01:00:06.956
because all it takes is a little extra and now everything you

1431
01:00:06.978 --> 01:00:07.868
have is not enough.

1432
01:00:07.954 --> 01:00:10.844
Yeah, that's right. That's not to say that you need to be

1433
01:00:10.882 --> 01:00:13.776
at 110% every day when you walk into work. Like there are

1434
01:00:13.798 --> 01:00:16.736
days where 90% Is all you

1435
01:00:16.758 --> 01:00:19.712
have and 90% is going to be fine, but you need to know

1436
01:00:19.766 --> 01:00:21.248
when that 90% is not going.

1437
01:00:21.254 --> 01:00:24.064
To be enough, which is a real check your

1438
01:00:24.102 --> 01:00:25.364
ego kind of situation.

1439
01:00:25.482 --> 01:00:25.860
Yeah.

1440
01:00:25.930 --> 01:00:27.428
Staying humble is key.

1441
01:00:27.514 --> 01:00:28.100
Yeah.

1442
01:00:28.250 --> 01:00:31.188
And like we say, aviation is a team sport. If you

1443
01:00:31.194 --> 01:00:33.924
need to call someone up to fill the roster instead of you, then

1444
01:00:34.042 --> 01:00:34.950
do it.

1445
01:00:35.560 --> 01:00:38.372
All right, we're down to our last question. I want you to picture

1446
01:00:38.436 --> 01:00:41.204
a young pilot, maybe one of the pilots you'll be teaching

1447
01:00:41.252 --> 01:00:44.084
soon at the school. If you had to give advice

1448
01:00:44.132 --> 01:00:45.948
to a new pilot, what would that be?

1449
01:00:46.034 --> 01:00:48.860
Don't leave anything on the table. When you

1450
01:00:48.930 --> 01:00:51.308
are in training, the

1451
01:00:51.394 --> 01:00:54.284
single most important thing that you can

1452
01:00:54.322 --> 01:00:57.244
do is decide that your

1453
01:00:57.282 --> 01:01:00.136
training is important. If you're

1454
01:01:00.168 --> 01:01:03.152
going through it and you're wishy washy about it, or if

1455
01:01:03.206 --> 01:01:05.600
you're going through it and you

1456
01:01:05.750 --> 01:01:08.496
decide, you know what? Maybe I don't need to study for that

1457
01:01:08.518 --> 01:01:09.090
test.

1458
01:01:09.620 --> 01:01:11.040
It's going to bite you.

1459
01:01:11.190 --> 01:01:13.696
And you don't want to be the guy

1460
01:01:13.798 --> 01:01:16.788
who at the end of the day has questions, did I

1461
01:01:16.794 --> 01:01:19.684
work hard enough for this? You want to work as hard

1462
01:01:19.722 --> 01:01:21.476
as you need to every time you need.

1463
01:01:21.498 --> 01:01:24.388
To and show up ready to go. Yeah, absolutely.

1464
01:01:24.474 --> 01:01:26.560
There is no room for doing it halfway.

1465
01:01:26.640 --> 01:01:27.450
That's right.

1466
01:01:28.060 --> 01:01:31.016
Okay, that's it for our questions today. Paul, I just want to thank

1467
01:01:31.038 --> 01:01:33.832
you so much for being here. Uh, I really enjoyed learning

1468
01:01:33.886 --> 01:01:36.480
more about what you folks do in the Cormorant. Uh,

1469
01:01:36.692 --> 01:01:39.624
I feel humbled thinking about some of the things

1470
01:01:39.662 --> 01:01:42.556
that you take on and. Yeah, just thanks so much for being

1471
01:01:42.578 --> 01:01:43.052
on the show.

1472
01:01:43.106 --> 01:01:44.220
Yeah, thanks, Brian.

1473
01:01:44.640 --> 01:01:47.612
All right, that's going to wrap things up for our chat with Paul about

1474
01:01:47.666 --> 01:01:50.652
search and rescue on the Cormorant. For our next

1475
01:01:50.706 --> 01:01:53.184
episode, we'll check back in with our guest from

1476
01:01:53.222 --> 01:01:55.904
episode 15, Scott Harding. At the time,

1477
01:01:55.942 --> 01:01:58.464
Scott was on phase one grobe. He has now

1478
01:01:58.502 --> 01:02:01.424
completed phase two, as well as his phase three

1479
01:02:01.462 --> 01:02:04.416
multi engine course. So we'll find out what life was like for him

1480
01:02:04.438 --> 01:02:07.348
as a student and where he's heading next. Do you

1481
01:02:07.354 --> 01:02:10.196
have any questions or comments about anything you've heard on the show, or would

1482
01:02:10.218 --> 01:02:12.964
you or someone you know make a great guest? Do you have some great

1483
01:02:13.002 --> 01:02:15.556
ideas for a show? You can reach out to us, uh, at

1484
01:02:15.578 --> 01:02:18.424
thepilotprojectpodcast@gmail.com.

1485
01:02:18.542 --> 01:02:21.496
We'd also love for you to check out our social media, where

1486
01:02:21.518 --> 01:02:24.120
we post videos for every episode we make

1487
01:02:24.190 --> 01:02:26.696
featuring footage from RCAF, Air crew and

1488
01:02:26.718 --> 01:02:29.112
members. And those are all found at at

1489
01:02:29.166 --> 01:02:32.012
Podpilot Project. It's hard to believe,

1490
01:02:32.066 --> 01:02:34.860
but we have been putting out the show now for one year.

1491
01:02:34.930 --> 01:02:37.884
We just want to thank all of our listeners for coming along on this

1492
01:02:37.922 --> 01:02:40.828
adventure with us. It has been humbling. It has been

1493
01:02:40.834 --> 01:02:43.616
a learning experience, but it has been so much fun.

1494
01:02:43.718 --> 01:02:46.656
And without you, the show would really be meaningless. So, from the

1495
01:02:46.678 --> 01:02:49.356
bottom of my heart, thank you so much for joining

1496
01:02:49.388 --> 01:02:52.192
us with that, we will close by asking

1497
01:02:52.246 --> 01:02:55.044
for your help with the Big three. That's like. And follow us

1498
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on social media. Share with your friends and follow and

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rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts.

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That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue

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side up. See you,