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Welcome back to Count Me In,

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IMA's podcast about all things affecting
the accounting and finance world.

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I'm your host Mitch Roshong, and today's
episode is number 147 in our series.

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The featured guest speaker in today's
conversation is Jason Whitley.

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Jason is the chief financial
officer at Phi Inc.

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And he comes to count me in to share
some of the knowledge he's gathered from

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his over 30 years of global industry
experience. While talking with my cohost,

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Adam, Jason addresses how the CFO can
become an effective business partner and

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emphasizes the various skills
one should develop along the way.

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To hear more about what an aspiring CFO
needs to do to contribute to sustainable

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organizational success,

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keep listening as we transition
into the conversation now.

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CFOs are now being looked
to for governance, risk
management, business change,

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business resilience,
technology advancement, and
the list goes on from there.

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Are the inherited skills,

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finance and accounting professionals
possess sufficient enough to make

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decisions? And if not, what are some of
the crucial skills they need to evolve?

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Yeah, no, that's a, that's a great
question. I would say that the, you know,

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the CFO role has really transformed
pretty rapidly over the last several years

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and it's become, you know,

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one of the most difficult jobs in the
organization to do really well because of

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the broad scope that you just mentioned.
I know that, you know, myself,

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me and my colleagues who aspired
to the role over the years,

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but it's really a job that's almost
impossible to fully prepare for and

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I don't think the skills
are easily inherited.

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You're expected many times to have a
depth of knowledge in several different

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areas. The ones you mentioned, including,
you know, treasury, accounting,

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risk management tax, IT, controls.

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And then on top of all that you need to
really have a good in-depth knowledge of

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the business operations. If you want
to be an effective business partner.

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And it probably even left out a few areas,

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but the point is that it's,
it's really extensive.

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It's difficult obviously to have depth
of knowledge in all of those areas.

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So inevitably you're going to enter
the job with some, some skill gaps.

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And I've seen this in my role.

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I've seen it observed in probably every
CFO that I've interacted with in my

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career.

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And I think the key is really to surround
yourself with a team of folks that are

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they're technical experts in these areas
and ensure your weaknesses are really

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covered by their strengths.

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I think it's also important
to develop a strong network.

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I need a network of mentors
and a network of you know,

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technology and technical aspects for
service providers that you can really draw

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on to supplement your knowledge
and some of the skill gaps that

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you have, or just to bounce ideas off,

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as the time comes and things are
needed, in that fashion. I guess,

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in addition to, and as you
alluded to in your question,

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and it's really imperative that you
develop and hone certain skills throughout

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your career.

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And I think those can be developed
in many different functions

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and many different roles, but you
know, you're going to need these,

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if you really want to lead the team and
be proactive and addressing the problems

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that come up every day in business.

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And I think some of those
skills specifically would be,

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you know, leadership, analytics,
planning, communication,

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and the strategic decision making.

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It's really key that you're
developing these kinds of skills

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throughout your career.

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And those can be things that you
develop in finance and accounting.

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It could be in strategy,
business development,

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operations, or other
functions, but, you know,

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every role should involve
developing, utilizing those skills.

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So that you're really ready,

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when the time comes to take on all
of the responsibility and scope,

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that comes along with the CFO role.

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So as I hear you talking about
all the skills that are involved,

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one of the things I heard you mention was,

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having a good network
surrounding yourself with people,

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even people that are smarter than
you, I've heard, a lot of people say,

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it's almost like you're being,

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almost like you have to be an
effective business partner.

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You have to connect with
all these different people.

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So we've covered some of the skills
needed to evolve, then what's next?

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Yeah, then I think it's, it is
like you just said, you know,

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becoming an effective business
partner. I think the, you know,

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the way that you do that, you know,

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first and foremost is you've got to
have the trust and respect of, you know,

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whoever it is. You're partnering
with the CEO, the general manager,

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plant manager, department
manager, you know,

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whoever it is you're supporting as a
finance leader, this comes through,

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you know, basically experienced
performance on the job. You know,

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sometimes it develops quickly.
Sometimes it takes some time,

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but every one of my CFO
roles has really evolved and

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become more impactful, over
time. So it was more impactful,

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I would say at the end than it
was at the beginning, as you know,

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I've developed trust and, you know,
and experience was gained, you know,

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with the individual that I was
partnering with and supporting.

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So I think you have to realize you
have to be flexible and, you know,

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one approach to partnering is not
necessarily going to be sufficient,

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over your entire career.

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And I've seen really great
business partnerships and
I've seen some not so great

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business partnerships in these
roles. You know, the one, you know,

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the ones that didn't work out were
usually sort of doomed from the start.

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It was just, you know, a lack
of trust, lack of respect,

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or maybe appreciation for the role or
function of the, of the other person.

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and that was just something that was
never overcome, for one reason or another.

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So I think, you know, as I
mentioned, that's first and foremost,

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is that you gain trust and respect.

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I think it's also important to know
you can have two really great people,

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you know,

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it can be world-class in their respective
functions and they still don't have

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really an effective partnership because
they can't work together as a team.

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So it requires a lot of effort,
you need to share information,

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there needs to be, you know,

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information and thoughts being
shared on a two-way basis,

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you're working towards common
goals and as are said earlier,

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you really need to respect
responsibilities and
the focus of each other.

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But if you, if you get
all of these in place,

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then you can really maximize
the effectiveness of both roles.

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I don't think either person can be
highly effective. I think, you know,

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they can still be
effective and really good,

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but I don't think they can be
highly effective and at their best,

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without really the help and
support of the other person.

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So it's imperative that the
partnership work well, you know,

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for the benefit of that team,

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for the company and really
for the organization overall.

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Now, Jason, there's something I've heard,
you know, other CFOs, your colleagues,

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your,

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your peers say and things I've read
that in IMA's research that, you know,

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the CFO of an organization must not also
miss not only be able to share insight,

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but also lead through foresight. So
when it comes to innovation data value,

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how can the CFO navigate the challenges
associated with forecasting and best

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position the organization for
sustainable success into the future?

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Yeah, that's another
really great question.

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I think it's one of the biggest challenges
for the CFO, but I think, you know,

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at the end of the day,

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the CFO really has a great perspective
with which to lead and position the

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organization for success. We're
usually the first to see the numbers.

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we've got deep insight into
the operations. We've got
the ability to drill in,

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on areas of concern, come back,

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make sure the organization
understands them and, you know,

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offer solutions as well,

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so that things can be dealt with on a
quick and timely basis. I think in the,

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right hands, you know, this data and
understanding the business can be,

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can be really powerful,

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lead to great insights about how to
position the business for the future.

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But, you have to have the
right systems in place.

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You have to have a
coherent digital strategy,

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the plan to track and report, and
seminate the data as well as analyze it.

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And that's now the subject for a
whole other podcast. But ultimately,

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you know,

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having all these things in place can
set the direction for the company or the

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strategy for the company.

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You can help you change what you're
doing in terms of allocating capital or

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resources in a particular area.

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You can also recommend something that
has been put forward or as an initiative

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for the company that isn't necessarily
working be stopped. I mean,

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this last one is one
that I've seen, you know,

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finance organization
or finance individuals,

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take a lead on many times in many
organizations in many companies.

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They're the ones that say, "Hey guys,
it's time to stop doing what we're doing.

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It's time to reevaluate or course,

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and take a new path or sort of cut our
losses and come up with a new strategy".

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I don't think there's that many positions
in the company where you have this

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kind of confluence of information,

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and it's really powerful in helping
you address challenges. And,

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and as I mentioned
earlier, to course correct,

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depending on what the business dynamic is.

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So I think the CFO has to be
ready to use this information,

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gotta be ready to speak up, in
regards to the trends, you know,

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the direction of pressure
in the marketplace or the
organization and make sure

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everyone understands what the data is
telling them and come up with viable

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strategic solutions to address them.

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So a lot of accounting
and finance professionals,

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their goal is to get to that CFO level.

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What skills does a CFO
need? And, you know,

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we've talked a lot about
some of those skills already,

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but if you're an aspiring
CFO, what, what, you know,

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what should you set your sights on?
Where should you develop your skills,

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to get, you know, to
get to that next level?

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Yeah, a great question. I think, you know,

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some of the skills I
mentioned earlier, but let me,

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let me dive a little bit deeper into what
I think are really the most important,

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and get a little bit more
granular in terms of what,

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what you really need to
become an effective CFO,

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if you're trying to get to that level.

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But one of the ways that I think
about it, is, is a way that my mentor,

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you know, 20 years ago, a CFO that I
worked with describing it. So basically,

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you know, finance, you have
two different jobs, right?

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And they're equally important.

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The first one is you gotta make sure
the numbers are right. And this is,

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you know, reporting the controls,
processes, systems. I mean,

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ultimately you're the single source
of truth for the organization.

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And this is where you're going to
spend, you know, 51% of your time,

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the other 49% of your time is
to help improve the numbers.

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So it's really that simple,
you know, those two things.

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And by improving the numbers,

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now we're talking about getting
involved with strategy analytics,

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restructuring exercises, maybe
a new initiative, you know, M&A,

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when that comes up, business
development, cost reduction,

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working all of these things with the
operations and the commercial folks.

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And I think, you know, the CFO
can lead and dig into both areas,

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or the one that,

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that can really lead and dig into both
of those areas is going to be the most

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highly effective and is going to be
the best advocate for all the key

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stakeholders in the firm. I've been
involved in a couple of situations where,

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you know, the first one wasn't
in place, you know, the,

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the control aspect to it and
making sure the numbers are right.

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And we spent massive amounts of
time putting the house in order.

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And it became the only job we
had, for some period of time.

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So we had to build the foundation
through people, processes, and systems,

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so that we could really move on to the
more value added activities of the job,

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which is the second piece
that I mentioned. I think the,

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the other piece is that there
needs to be complete transparency.

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So you have to develop
the skill for, you know,

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putting out not only the good news,

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but the bad news and make sure
that there aren't any surprises.

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I used to have a former CEO that said,
you know, bad news doesn't age well,

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and I think that that adage applies
to every organization I've been in.

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You don't want to hold up the
dissemination of the bad news because the

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situation could get worse.

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A lot of times they don't
resolve themselves favorably.

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And if you can get the information
out there quickly enough,

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you can bring to bear all the
resources of the organization on the

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problem. And I think the
key for the CFO, here,

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is to the set the tone at the top.

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So the organization falls this
line of thinking, constantly.

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A couple other points: I think you
need to build organizational rapport.

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It's good to have strong
partnerships with all of the

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executive staff members,
or the extended staff. And,

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and these will change depending
on the job that you're in,

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but learning how to develop
organizational rapport,

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is important because you need
to be a trusted resource for,

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for all of those stakeholders.

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And you can't really have the impact you
want to have in an organization unless

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you've got that rapport.
And if you do have it,

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and your impact is going to be much
greater than it would be otherwise.

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And I think, lastly,

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I would say you just need to
approach the position with a balanced

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viewpoint. Don't be too conservative,
don't be too aggressive in your approach.

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You'd never want to approach, you know,

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an accounting problem or our
forecast now with that mindset,

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for instance, because you'll
end up being, over time,

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if you continually do that,

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you'll end up being labeled and
you'll continually get second guessed.

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So in an example of a forecast, I mean,
when you put together a commitment,

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you want to have balanced lists of
risk and opportunities to discuss

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when you talk about what
the number is going to be.

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This ensures that everyone
understands what you've put in, right?

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That it potentially
could be an issue, right.

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But you've talked about and learned
how to mitigate those issues.

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And you've talked about opportunities
that maybe aren't there,

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that you're going to work on, to make
sure that they benefit the organization.

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So you're trying to get to the right
answer for the reporting for, you know,

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for our business forecast or, or any
particular problem, regardless of the,

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you know, the accepted practice or maybe
the potential organizational impact,

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you have to be able to do that. And
over time, these forecast, terminology,

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these beats and messes, they
should balance out, you know,

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solid reasoning for your
decisions along the way,

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that's important to get your decisions
or your recommendations accepted by doing

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that and having this,

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I think it's important basically to
make sure you've got a strong reputation

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along these lines, within the
organization or within the company.

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So as we wrap up our conversation,

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do you have any thoughts on the
role of the CFO and building their

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organizations, as we
look toward the future?

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Yeah, I do. I think overall,

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you have to be flexible in your
approach to the organization and to

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the business partnership that we
talked about earlier. I think,

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you don't want to be flexible when
it comes to your approach to ethics,

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controls and compliance, but, you know,
as the scene goes in career progression,

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what got you here, won't get you there.

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these are kinds of things that you need
to think about as a CFO. And when I,

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when I talk about, compliance, I
think it's pretty clear what, I mean,

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there's really no room for
flexibility here. You need to possess,

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an exhibit to the organization
and impeccable ethics.

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You gotta be strong because there's going
to be issues that you're gonna face,

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on compliance or controls, or, you
know, you're asked to push the limits.

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These just aren't areas
where you can compromise,

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but on your approach to the business
and business partnership, I would say,

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you know, every dynamic, you
know, a CEO and a CFO is,

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is different. You're going to need
to adapt your operating style,

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many times to work most
effectively with, you know,

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see if a CEO or general
manager or department manager,
depending on, you know,

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whatever the case may be. So your
principles and focus can be the same,

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but your approach to the job,
is going to be different.

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And sometimes just in order to
get the same result, you know,

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but ultimately that's what you're all
aligned towards maximizing the strategic

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value of the enterprise.

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So I think flexibility is key
there and it's also a key in

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addressing business problems
and building an organization.

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More directly answering your question,
that's capable of thriving in the future.

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So if a finance organization can
sort of learn and grow along with

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the company, and the
organization to be, you know,

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make sure they continue to be relevant,

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and capable of helping the group with
strong analytics and strategic decision

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making, then they're going to be hugely
valuable to the, to the organization.

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This has been Count Me In:

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IMA's podcast providing you
with the latest perspectives
of thought leaders from

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the accounting and finance profession.

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If you like what you heard and you'd
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00:16:50,301 --> 00:16:51,860
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