WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.800 --> 00:00:08.320 Welcome to the Hot Dish, comfort food for rural America. I'm Heidi 2 00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:11.960 Heitkamp. And I'm Joel Heitkamp. Today we're going to focus on something near 3 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:15.200 and dear to my heart and Heidi's, and that's public 4 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:18.800 lands. Yep, we are, because we're both supporters of 5 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:22.560 public lands staying in the hands of the public. And we have a couple great 6 00:00:22.560 --> 00:00:26.360 guests to talk about it. Land Tawney and Aaron Murphy are 7 00:00:26.360 --> 00:00:29.560 here with us today. And, and they're co-founders of the American 8 00:00:29.880 --> 00:00:33.600 Hunters and Anglers Action Network, or as they call it, 9 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:37.320 AHA. And they have a lot to say and they 10 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:40.760 are doing a lot to protect our public lands. And so we wanted you to 11 00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:41.320 meet them. 12 00:00:46.360 --> 00:00:49.880 As most of you know, an earlier version of the Republicans Big 13 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:53.720 Ugly Bill would have allowed millions of acres of public land 14 00:00:53.720 --> 00:00:57.160 to be sold that would have been devastating to rural communities, 15 00:00:57.160 --> 00:01:01.000 particularly in western usa. Those provisions didn't 16 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:04.800 make it into the final bill thanks to public outcry, but that 17 00:01:04.800 --> 00:01:08.560 doesn't mean the threat is passed. We know this is important to 18 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:12.200 a lot of our listeners out there, so we brought in a couple of guys 19 00:01:12.360 --> 00:01:15.640 who are working every day to protect public 20 00:01:15.720 --> 00:01:19.160 lands. Land Tawney was born and raised in rural 21 00:01:19.240 --> 00:01:22.530 Montana and was CEO of the Montana-based 22 00:01:22.690 --> 00:01:26.370 Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. That's enough for me right there. 23 00:01:26.370 --> 00:01:30.090 Love it. Aaron Murphy was the Executive Director of Montana 24 00:01:30.090 --> 00:01:33.730 Conservation Voters and spent 13 years on 25 00:01:33.810 --> 00:01:37.650 Senator John Tester's staff as Press Secretary and 26 00:01:37.810 --> 00:01:40.610 Chief of Staff. You guys recently got together - 27 00:01:42.130 --> 00:01:43.970 What, that poor guy. 28 00:01:47.570 --> 00:01:51.410 Yeah, working with John. You're on your own there. Yeah, 29 00:01:51.650 --> 00:01:55.310 I have lots of stories. Yeah. These guys recently 30 00:01:55.310 --> 00:01:58.790 got together and started a new group, the American Hunter and 31 00:01:58.790 --> 00:02:02.270 Anglers Action Network, to defend our public lands. 32 00:02:02.350 --> 00:02:06.070 Land, Aaron, thanks for being here. Appreciate it, you guys. Well, thank you 33 00:02:06.070 --> 00:02:09.350 guys. Appreciate you having us on. All right, why don't you get us up to 34 00:02:09.350 --> 00:02:12.830 speed? You know, we, Heidi mentioned the Big Ugly Bill and why it was 35 00:02:12.830 --> 00:02:16.670 ugly to a lot of guys like us who hunt and fish and, 36 00:02:16.750 --> 00:02:20.590 and love our public lands, but just - Land, I'm 37 00:02:20.590 --> 00:02:23.350 going to go to you first. Tell me why you think it is that they 38 00:02:23.350 --> 00:02:26.450 want to sell off our public land. I mean, they want to sell off our 39 00:02:26.450 --> 00:02:29.970 public lands to do two things. They either want to exploit it so they can 40 00:02:29.970 --> 00:02:32.730 make a bunch of money or they want to privatize it so they have their 41 00:02:32.730 --> 00:02:36.450 own playground. And so this is something that's been going on ever since, you know, 42 00:02:36.450 --> 00:02:40.210 Theodore Roosevelt really started our conservation, our public lands 43 00:02:40.210 --> 00:02:43.450 legacy that people want to take it away from us. 44 00:02:43.850 --> 00:02:47.690 Okay. It didn't make it, Aaron, into the Big Ugly Bill 45 00:02:47.770 --> 00:02:51.530 in the end. Guys like you and others made a difference 46 00:02:51.610 --> 00:02:55.310 and didn't end up in there. So let me ask you this. Are 47 00:02:55.310 --> 00:02:58.470 they safe now? Are we done having to worry about this? 48 00:02:59.190 --> 00:03:02.790 No. The threat is graver than ever. And that is because 49 00:03:02.870 --> 00:03:06.550 Senator Mike Lee, who originally put that legislative text, 50 00:03:06.870 --> 00:03:10.430 tried to put it into the Bill, has promised that he wants to come back 51 00:03:10.430 --> 00:03:14.150 to it. And this is not just a one off thing for us. 52 00:03:14.470 --> 00:03:18.310 We call ourselves AHA, short for American Hunters and Anglers. But 53 00:03:18.630 --> 00:03:22.270 what we did is we joined a huge community of folks who 54 00:03:22.270 --> 00:03:25.270 were quite distressed about this plan, 55 00:03:25.750 --> 00:03:29.070 mostly because it was sloppy. Senator Lee wanted to sell off up to 56 00:03:29.070 --> 00:03:32.910 3.3 million acres of Forest Service and BLM land. And 57 00:03:32.910 --> 00:03:36.590 that just sort of lit a fuse. And what we tried to do 58 00:03:36.590 --> 00:03:39.990 is just amplify that and really speak to a lot of people who care 59 00:03:40.310 --> 00:03:44.150 a lot more about public lands, hunting, fishing, access to them, 60 00:03:44.310 --> 00:03:47.830 than they care about partisan politics. So I think we hit a chord. 61 00:03:48.230 --> 00:03:51.970 But in terms of the threat, it is far from over. In fact, we 62 00:03:51.970 --> 00:03:55.250 think it's just beginning. We say that we are the front line in the war 63 00:03:55.250 --> 00:03:59.010 on public lands. And it's more evident than ever, especially after 64 00:03:59.090 --> 00:04:02.610 last election day. Years ago, there was a big movement again 65 00:04:02.610 --> 00:04:06.330 to sell private land. And I think a lot of the ranchers and 66 00:04:06.330 --> 00:04:10.130 farmers were all for it because boy, now I can buy that grazing land 67 00:04:10.130 --> 00:04:13.890 that I've been grazing. And then all of a sudden, people like Bill Gates, 68 00:04:14.210 --> 00:04:17.770 people like Ted Turner, what I used to tell our farmers and 69 00:04:17.770 --> 00:04:21.490 ranchers is I think, you think you can compete with billionaires for this 70 00:04:21.490 --> 00:04:25.050 land? And so let's put a fine point on it. It's not 71 00:04:25.050 --> 00:04:28.490 about, you know, kind of opening this up to the public. It's about 72 00:04:28.570 --> 00:04:32.010 giving it at bottom prices to 73 00:04:32.010 --> 00:04:35.690 billionaires who can afford to buy it. And it is, I mean, 74 00:04:35.690 --> 00:04:39.450 we have an income and wealth inequality and this is 75 00:04:39.450 --> 00:04:42.738 just part of that whole picture, I think, Aaron. And Mr., 76 00:04:42.882 --> 00:04:46.010 Mr. Land. I think that's such a great name by the way. 77 00:04:46.450 --> 00:04:49.930 Yeah, I didn't like it when I was, you know, younger, like in fourth grade, 78 00:04:49.930 --> 00:04:53.650 but now it kind of fits. But I mean, it really 79 00:04:53.650 --> 00:04:57.290 is about billionaires. Land, is that where you see it? 80 00:04:57.290 --> 00:05:01.010 I mean, is this about the rich building their playgrounds? You mentioned it 81 00:05:01.330 --> 00:05:04.970 in your opening statement. Well, absolutely. And I think that, you know, our 82 00:05:04.970 --> 00:05:08.530 country is different than anywhere else in the world where we the people 83 00:05:08.530 --> 00:05:11.650 own 640 million acres. We have a 84 00:05:11.650 --> 00:05:15.020 gigantic kingdom that belongs to us. Many other countries, 85 00:05:15.180 --> 00:05:19.020 it's the royalty and the very few that own the land. And so, you know, 86 00:05:19.020 --> 00:05:22.500 I think Will Rogers said, 'buy more land because we're not making any more of 87 00:05:22.500 --> 00:05:25.780 it.' Well, this is our land that belongs to all of us. And I grew 88 00:05:25.780 --> 00:05:29.580 up here in Montana. I don't have a big ranch. But what I 89 00:05:29.580 --> 00:05:33.220 do have, I have all this public land. So that is my kingdom. And so 90 00:05:33.220 --> 00:05:36.820 there are others that want to have that for themselves. And so, you know, Aaron 91 00:05:36.820 --> 00:05:39.620 and I have, you know, been in Montana for a long time. I've traveled a 92 00:05:39.620 --> 00:05:43.420 lot around the West. There are example after example after 93 00:05:43.420 --> 00:05:47.260 example of local ranchers or local farms that have been bought up by 94 00:05:47.260 --> 00:05:51.020 those that are from out of state, usually that have way more money that I 95 00:05:51.020 --> 00:05:54.780 can even fathom in my lifetimes that are now buying these places as 96 00:05:54.780 --> 00:05:58.460 a second or third or fourth property. They are looking to 97 00:05:58.460 --> 00:06:02.020 build their kingdom to keep us riffraffs, us serfs 98 00:06:02.020 --> 00:06:05.540 out of that, that those areas. So, Aaron, 99 00:06:05.780 --> 00:06:09.160 let me throw it to you this way. We have a lot of people that 100 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:12.680 listen to the Hot Dish that don't agree with me, don't agree with 101 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:16.360 Heidi on certain issues. Let me ask you this. 102 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:20.120 Some of them listening right now are saying, why do we need a 103 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:23.920 kingdom? Why do we need the United States to have a kingdom? Why do 104 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:27.760 we need that much public land? What's your answer to them? My answer 105 00:06:27.760 --> 00:06:31.600 off the bat would be, it is part of our legacy as Americans. Right? 106 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:34.760 I mean, I think a lot of us take for granted the fact that, again, 107 00:06:34.760 --> 00:06:38.360 as Land said, if you don't have access to your own private ranch, you have 108 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:42.060 access to access to 640 million acres of public lands all 109 00:06:42.060 --> 00:06:45.700 over the country that you don't need any special permission to go in 110 00:06:45.860 --> 00:06:49.700 for the most part. I would also say that in terms of 111 00:06:50.100 --> 00:06:53.580 framing this to people, the way that certain 112 00:06:53.580 --> 00:06:57.220 politicians have decided to get at this is by 113 00:06:57.700 --> 00:07:01.500 trying to sell it through the lens of transferring management of these federal lands 114 00:07:01.500 --> 00:07:05.340 to individual states to manage, which I think sounds like a good idea on 115 00:07:05.340 --> 00:07:09.190 its face to a lot of people. But there are specific partisan 116 00:07:09.190 --> 00:07:12.950 party platforms that say, hey, the states should 117 00:07:12.950 --> 00:07:16.710 manage all of these hundreds and thousands of acres 118 00:07:16.710 --> 00:07:20.270 of federal forests. States can't afford to do that. They 119 00:07:20.270 --> 00:07:24.070 don't have the resources to, say, fight wildfires or to manage the land 120 00:07:24.070 --> 00:07:27.470 the way that the federal government does. And so what we are trying to do 121 00:07:27.470 --> 00:07:31.070 is tell a story that even that, even saying, hey, we should 122 00:07:31.070 --> 00:07:34.710 transfer the management of these federal lands to individual states. That is 123 00:07:34.710 --> 00:07:38.190 the first step towards selling those public lands off, not just to 124 00:07:38.190 --> 00:07:41.490 anybody, but like you said, to the people who can afford them, to the highest 125 00:07:41.490 --> 00:07:45.330 bidder. That means the billionaires. And when that happens, we are 126 00:07:45.410 --> 00:07:49.090 locked out. You can see it happening right now. We cannot access 127 00:07:49.490 --> 00:07:53.210 our own land. As soon as that happens, habitats are 128 00:07:53.210 --> 00:07:56.730 affected, wildlife is affected, recreation is affected. It 129 00:07:56.730 --> 00:08:00.530 impacts a multi-billion dollar, actually it's a $1.2 130 00:08:00.530 --> 00:08:04.170 trillion outdoor recreation economy. All of that ties together. 131 00:08:04.170 --> 00:08:07.490 And so if people are thinking, ah, maybe that sounds like a good idea, 132 00:08:07.880 --> 00:08:11.600 we're here to say, hold on, they ain't making more of 133 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:15.120 it. We have to protect this as part of our American legacy, our 134 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:18.960 birthright. I agree with everything that Aaron just said. It's a place where I go 135 00:08:18.960 --> 00:08:22.640 with my family to hunt and fish. It's a place where I go pick huckleberries. 136 00:08:22.640 --> 00:08:26.160 And when I hunt and fish and I'm providing food for my family. It's a 137 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:29.600 place that, you know, I go find solace. You know, remember, remember COVID, where you 138 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:32.760 couldn't do anything but go outside and what that meant to all of us. So 139 00:08:32.760 --> 00:08:35.880 I think there's that piece. Aaron mentions the $1.2 trillion 140 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:39.920 outdoor economy that is not only sustainable, but we can grow 141 00:08:39.920 --> 00:08:43.720 that economy. Then the last piece, I guess if none of those kind of like 142 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:47.800 make your ears pick up a little bit, is that our public lands 143 00:08:47.800 --> 00:08:51.360 and public waters are essential to clean air and clean water for all 144 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:55.200 Americans. And so when I think about, you know, 70% of our clean 145 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:58.920 water starts on public lands, could you imagine if somebody 146 00:08:58.920 --> 00:09:02.720 else is owning those headwaters to our streams and our rivers and not just like 147 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:06.440 a billionaire, but potentially a foreign-owned entity? And so to 148 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:10.200 me, these are public resources that provide again, recreational 149 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:13.840 opportunities, an economic economy that is actually amazing. 150 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:17.760 And then also clean air and clean water. Let me throw this at 151 00:09:17.760 --> 00:09:21.520 you guys. The image that administrations, even 152 00:09:21.520 --> 00:09:24.800 before this, that wanted to sell off our public lands 153 00:09:24.800 --> 00:09:28.640 presented to the public were images of lands that weren't 154 00:09:28.640 --> 00:09:32.290 being used. Lands that were out there, you know, on the edge of 155 00:09:32.290 --> 00:09:35.810 oil fields, talking about why in the world aren't we developing 156 00:09:35.810 --> 00:09:39.410 these? You know, the nation is short oil, gas prices are 157 00:09:39.410 --> 00:09:42.970 high. I'm going to go to you first with that one, Land. That, 158 00:09:43.130 --> 00:09:46.970 that strategy, the, the pro-gutting our public 159 00:09:46.970 --> 00:09:50.730 lands individuals use, how effective is it and 160 00:09:50.890 --> 00:09:54.490 how wrong is it? I mean, you talk about, you know, Theodore 161 00:09:54.490 --> 00:09:57.850 Roosevelt, which I'm sure you all are very steeped in, you know, North Dakota kind 162 00:09:57.850 --> 00:10:01.680 of lore. When he lost his mom and he lost his 163 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:05.040 wife on the same day, like, they both died on the same day, he came 164 00:10:05.040 --> 00:10:08.640 to the lonely lands of North Dakota. He came there to find, like, 165 00:10:08.640 --> 00:10:12.440 solace. Right? And so how important, like, put a price tag on that, like 166 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:16.240 these lonely lands that you're talking about. But I go back to 167 00:10:16.400 --> 00:10:20.200 the Big Beautiful Bill that Aaron was talking about earlier that was 168 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:23.800 all about making money. And so this was not like these lonely lands that didn't 169 00:10:23.800 --> 00:10:27.590 have, like, very much, let's say, like, economic benefits. There 170 00:10:27.590 --> 00:10:30.830 were stuff that was close to national parks in particular. 171 00:10:31.310 --> 00:10:35.070 That is the, those are the highest value lands to the people. And 172 00:10:35.070 --> 00:10:37.950 those would have been lost. They would not been given to the, you know, the 173 00:10:37.950 --> 00:10:41.510 rank and file. Those would have gone to the billionaires. And so to me, then 174 00:10:41.510 --> 00:10:44.350 you talk about, like, kind of oil and gas. We need oil and gas development 175 00:10:44.350 --> 00:10:47.830 in this country. You've had a bunch go on there in North Dakota. There's places 176 00:10:47.830 --> 00:10:51.430 in Wyoming, my home state of Montana, that needs to be done in a 177 00:10:51.430 --> 00:10:54.670 sustainable fashion and so that you can develop those 178 00:10:54.670 --> 00:10:58.510 resources, then make sure that you go back and restore those resources 179 00:10:58.510 --> 00:11:02.350 and then move on. Right now, this idea of energy dominance, that 180 00:11:02.350 --> 00:11:05.710 means one person is winning and somebody else is losing. And I don't think that 181 00:11:05.710 --> 00:11:09.470 is beneficial to anybody besides the people that are making the money. Aaron, I'm going 182 00:11:09.470 --> 00:11:12.950 to bring this to you. The ability for Donald Trump, the 183 00:11:12.950 --> 00:11:16.750 Administration, to be able to change a person's position, I don't know 184 00:11:16.750 --> 00:11:20.590 that it's done through passion or belief as much as it's done through 185 00:11:20.590 --> 00:11:24.230 idolization, but I'm going to throw this to you. The Secretary of the 186 00:11:24.230 --> 00:11:27.830 Interior right now was my Governor, and he's somebody 187 00:11:27.830 --> 00:11:31.270 I knew and know really well, but he's completely 188 00:11:31.270 --> 00:11:34.790 changed. So I don't know him. I mean, he was 189 00:11:34.869 --> 00:11:38.670 not for sale of public lands. In fact, he was an advocate for 190 00:11:38.670 --> 00:11:42.310 the very area that Land was just talking about, the badlands in North 191 00:11:42.310 --> 00:11:46.080 Dakota. So how do you fight that 192 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:49.600 when basically you end up with a Secretary of Interior 193 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:53.720 who sees his main job sucking up to a man that 194 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:57.520 wants to sell the land? Yeah. And to be clear, we're talking about Doug Burgum 195 00:11:57.520 --> 00:12:00.880 just for folks who might be outside of North Dakota, but yes - I didn't 196 00:12:00.880 --> 00:12:04.200 want to pick on Doug. I didn't want to say his name. But I'm happy 197 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:08.000 to. Yeah. So our issue with Secretary 198 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:11.400 Bergam is, is several fold. And yes, if you look at his 199 00:12:11.400 --> 00:12:15.240 messaging right now, it's all focused on, quote, unquote, energy dominance. 200 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:19.000 But he is also doing some what we think are pretty insidious things 201 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:22.600 for public lands going back a couple of weeks to win the Big 202 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:26.240 Beautiful Bill. And Senator Lee was trying to propose the sell off. He was supportive 203 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:29.960 of that. And he was supportive of divesting some of the public 204 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:33.600 lands as the solution to the housing crisis in this country, which we 205 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:37.200 don't buy. I don't think that argument stands up whatsoever 206 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.760 because the housing crisis is a much different set of issues. 207 00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:44.610 And we don't need to go and raid our forest service land as 208 00:12:44.610 --> 00:12:47.610 a solution for more suburbs. It's just a fact. 209 00:12:48.170 --> 00:12:51.570 Secondly, we noticed that he and the Secretary of 210 00:12:51.570 --> 00:12:55.210 Agriculture, a woman named Brooke Rollins, are sort of 211 00:12:55.210 --> 00:12:58.890 gearing up to go after very specific places 212 00:12:58.890 --> 00:13:02.410 like the Boundary Waters Canoe Wilderness area in northern 213 00:13:02.410 --> 00:13:05.370 Minnesota. They want to, by executive order, 214 00:13:05.930 --> 00:13:09.450 open the doors to allow a foreign-owned copper mine 215 00:13:09.820 --> 00:13:13.620 right at the headwaters of the Boundary Waters. That is something that he should 216 00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:16.940 be standing guard against and in fact is basically saying, look, 217 00:13:17.020 --> 00:13:20.620 foreign-owned copper mining is more important than this precious 218 00:13:20.620 --> 00:13:23.580 resource, which is 150 miles of 219 00:13:23.980 --> 00:13:27.660 pristine water and wilderness. So we 220 00:13:27.660 --> 00:13:31.500 are looking at why he's changed. I don't know. I didn't 221 00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:35.140 know Secretary Burgum as Governor, but I can tell you that I think he 222 00:13:35.140 --> 00:13:38.980 is, like many in this Administration, are just taking marching orders and 223 00:13:38.980 --> 00:13:42.740 rather than upholding the duty of being the Secretary of 224 00:13:42.740 --> 00:13:46.420 the Interior, just being a mouthpiece for a very specific slice of it. 225 00:13:46.580 --> 00:13:50.020 And that is hurting public land. So we are 226 00:13:50.180 --> 00:13:53.820 making sure, as in our role in our organization, that we 227 00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:57.340 are making sure everybody knows what's happening and saying it plainly and 228 00:13:57.340 --> 00:14:01.060 truthfully. Heidi, I'm going to send this one to you. You 229 00:14:01.060 --> 00:14:04.870 worked with Mike Lee. You know Mike Lee. For all I know, you got 230 00:14:04.870 --> 00:14:08.230 Mike Lee's cell. So let me ask you this. What's 231 00:14:08.230 --> 00:14:11.950 motivating him here? I mean, what's driving him? I think 232 00:14:11.950 --> 00:14:15.550 Mike Lee is a traditional conservative who believes that 233 00:14:15.550 --> 00:14:19.270 government should just get out of the way, never have a 234 00:14:19.270 --> 00:14:23.030 regulation, and they shouldn't ever own land and it should all 235 00:14:23.030 --> 00:14:26.630 be in private ownership. Well, I mean, that's all fine and 236 00:14:26.630 --> 00:14:30.410 good until he runs into people who hunt 237 00:14:30.410 --> 00:14:34.170 and fish and who say, wait, wait, wait, you're taking 238 00:14:34.250 --> 00:14:38.050 something away from us. And I think he was shocked that he 239 00:14:38.050 --> 00:14:41.810 didn't get his way in the Big Beautiful Bill and that it didn't 240 00:14:41.810 --> 00:14:45.090 work out the way he thought it was gonna work out. And so I think 241 00:14:45.090 --> 00:14:48.770 he's working on what we call the workaround. And Donald Trump 242 00:14:48.770 --> 00:14:52.530 hasn't been shy about declaring stuff and trying to make it 243 00:14:52.530 --> 00:14:56.330 happen without legislation. And so I don't think anybody should 244 00:14:57.330 --> 00:15:01.170 right now assume anything other than there is going to be 245 00:15:01.170 --> 00:15:04.850 a plan to continue this going forward. Now, 246 00:15:05.090 --> 00:15:08.930 what Mike Lee will point out is that abandoned post office in 247 00:15:08.930 --> 00:15:12.650 downtown Salt Lake or, you know, some urban property 248 00:15:12.650 --> 00:15:15.810 that a federal building sits on that hasn't been 249 00:15:15.810 --> 00:15:19.610 alienated from GAO, the Government Accounting 250 00:15:19.610 --> 00:15:23.410 Office and the Government Services, GSA. And so, you 251 00:15:23.410 --> 00:15:27.010 know, those things need to be reviewed, why they are still standing empty. 252 00:15:27.500 --> 00:15:31.180 I get that. But when he's talking about we're going to go 253 00:15:31.260 --> 00:15:34.780 into Utah and basically 254 00:15:35.740 --> 00:15:39.260 sell all the public land, let me tell you, I've met 255 00:15:39.260 --> 00:15:42.980 very conservative people in Utah who realize that 256 00:15:42.980 --> 00:15:46.660 their bread and butter is in tourism. It's in, you know, 257 00:15:46.660 --> 00:15:49.660 being able to take people on bike trips, being able to take people 258 00:15:49.660 --> 00:15:53.340 snowshoeing, being able to take people out there cross country skiing. 259 00:15:53.500 --> 00:15:56.820 And they know that resource if it's done away with, that 260 00:15:56.820 --> 00:16:00.500 resource is a financial resource that 261 00:16:00.500 --> 00:16:04.260 will hurt them economically. I mean, Mike Lee is totally on the wrong side 262 00:16:04.260 --> 00:16:07.980 of this, but like everybody else, he's brazen because he's a Republican and 263 00:16:07.980 --> 00:16:11.700 thinks that no one will ever challenge him. So, Land, 264 00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:15.540 let me throw this at you. Your group, the American Hunters and 265 00:16:15.540 --> 00:16:19.300 Anglers Action Network, has to be part of the 266 00:16:19.300 --> 00:16:23.000 solution of this in some ways, because I don't 267 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:26.720 think people really understand where federal lands are. I 268 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:30.400 don't think they know in my backyard here where Stack's Slough 269 00:16:30.400 --> 00:16:33.960 is and what it meant to me where I shot my first pheasant, where I 270 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.680 shot a bunch of mallards and some honkers and everything else. Do you 271 00:16:37.680 --> 00:16:41.520 think your group and other groups like you have done a good 272 00:16:41.520 --> 00:16:45.280 job of making sure the general public knows what public land 273 00:16:45.680 --> 00:16:49.410 is and where it's at? It's a great question. I 274 00:16:49.410 --> 00:16:52.650 think that it's part of the fabric of life in the West, right? And I 275 00:16:52.650 --> 00:16:56.330 think that in North Dakota, you know, I think about the grasslands in particular, 276 00:16:56.330 --> 00:17:00.010 you know, I've hunted birds there a ton of the National Grasslands. 277 00:17:00.250 --> 00:17:04.049 And so I think hunters and anglers know about these 278 00:17:04.049 --> 00:17:07.210 places, Joel. I don't think they know the threats to them, though. And it's our 279 00:17:07.210 --> 00:17:10.850 job in particular at AHA or other places to let people 280 00:17:10.850 --> 00:17:14.549 know when these places are under threat. I think that hunters and 281 00:17:14.549 --> 00:17:18.269 anglers in general like to be by themselves and they like to be left 282 00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:21.829 alone. And so, you know, they don't know that Mike 283 00:17:21.829 --> 00:17:25.469 Lee is trying to steal this land from them unless we tell them. And so 284 00:17:25.469 --> 00:17:29.029 that is, I think, one of our main jobs at American Hunters and Anglers is 285 00:17:29.029 --> 00:17:32.789 to let the people know and then give them an avenue to talk 286 00:17:32.789 --> 00:17:35.749 about this and to push back. And I think that's what you saw when this 287 00:17:35.749 --> 00:17:39.149 was part of the Big Beautiful Bill. And why Mike Lee was so surprised 288 00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:42.800 is he kicked the hornet's nest. And once he kicked that hornet's nest, he started 289 00:17:42.800 --> 00:17:46.000 getting stung. And I think at first he started saying, 'oh, this is just a 290 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.200 bunch of liberals that are being paid to do this.' He found out real quickly 291 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.880 that it was not just Democrats, not just Republicans, but all 292 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:56.680 of Americans that understand that public lands mean something to 293 00:17:56.680 --> 00:17:59.800 them. And once you're going to take it away, they're going to say, hell, no. 294 00:18:00.280 --> 00:18:04.080 And that's exactly what happened. And I think democracy still works in this country, 295 00:18:04.080 --> 00:18:07.630 and I think people forget that. And really what that means is that the squeaky 296 00:18:07.630 --> 00:18:11.470 wheel gets the grease. And sometimes we've got to just, you know, we the people 297 00:18:11.470 --> 00:18:15.230 have to rise up and demand from our elected leaders what we 298 00:18:15.230 --> 00:18:19.030 want. So, Land, where, where could you see a map of public 299 00:18:19.030 --> 00:18:22.750 land? Do you guys post that? To Joel's point, you know, people don't 300 00:18:22.750 --> 00:18:25.750 know where they are. They don't know what they look like. I think if you 301 00:18:25.750 --> 00:18:29.470 showed pictures, and I had a friend once from Wyoming who said, you 302 00:18:29.470 --> 00:18:33.030 know, y' all think about the Tetons, or you think about, you know, 303 00:18:33.110 --> 00:18:36.860 Yellowstone, he goes, but there's parts of Wyoming that'll scare the hell 304 00:18:36.860 --> 00:18:40.700 out of you. And you know what? That's really awesome. That was 305 00:18:40.700 --> 00:18:43.660 one of the most powerful tools, I think, that happened during that fight, is the 306 00:18:43.660 --> 00:18:47.180 Wilderness Society came out with a map and just talked about the lands that were 307 00:18:47.180 --> 00:18:50.620 for sale, not just public lands in general, but the lands that were for sale. 308 00:18:50.780 --> 00:18:53.980 And when you look at a map and you see those things in your backyard 309 00:18:54.140 --> 00:18:57.780 and places that you did go shoot your first antelope or you did go 310 00:18:57.780 --> 00:19:01.580 shoot, you know, a bunch of honkers, those places mean something to people. And 311 00:19:01.580 --> 00:19:05.340 so I think those maps, we did not produce one ourselves, but the Wilderness Society 312 00:19:05.340 --> 00:19:08.860 did on what was for sale. And that became real really quickly. 313 00:19:09.020 --> 00:19:12.340 I think we talk a lot about how, you know, these public lands are kind 314 00:19:12.340 --> 00:19:15.580 of in the West. I'm going to Tennessee next week, and I've been doing a 315 00:19:15.580 --> 00:19:19.420 little bit of research. I mean, their public lands are much more finite 316 00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:23.219 over there, but they mean that much more to them. Right? They have less 317 00:19:23.219 --> 00:19:27.020 of them, and they mean even more. And so I think showing those maps 318 00:19:27.020 --> 00:19:30.540 in particular that you're asking about, Senator, are absolutely essential. 319 00:19:31.180 --> 00:19:35.020 So, Aaron, I want to throw this one to you because your group, the American 320 00:19:35.020 --> 00:19:38.800 Hunters and Anglers Action Network, is, your 321 00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:42.480 job has to be to connect to somebody who's never held a 322 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:46.120 Remington or a Winchester. I mean, never held a 323 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:49.840 big ugly stick out fishing. You know what I'm getting at here? I 324 00:19:49.840 --> 00:19:53.679 mean, if you're going to win this and keep control of our, of our 325 00:19:53.679 --> 00:19:57.400 public lands, we're going to need that urban person. We're going to 326 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:01.200 need that person. You know, Heidi mentioned, you know, different sports, 327 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:04.680 biking, you know, trail, snowshoe, all of that. 328 00:20:05.180 --> 00:20:07.900 But you gotta get them, because if you don't get them, 329 00:20:08.860 --> 00:20:12.260 you're not gonna win this argument. Yeah, and I would say it's further than just 330 00:20:12.260 --> 00:20:16.020 urban versus rural, but I would say West versus the 331 00:20:16.020 --> 00:20:19.180 rest of the country. I think when you talk about public lands, a lot of 332 00:20:19.180 --> 00:20:22.300 people think, you know, the sprawling wilderness of 333 00:20:22.620 --> 00:20:26.100 Montana. And Senator, I happen to be a Wyomingite, so I know 334 00:20:26.100 --> 00:20:29.820 exactly what you're talking about. You know, lots of BLM land, 335 00:20:29.820 --> 00:20:33.420 for example. But what we wanna do is really make a connection 336 00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:37.200 between not just those lands, but also, say, 337 00:20:37.600 --> 00:20:41.440 reservoir where you go fishing in Arkansas, that's run by the 338 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:45.160 U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Well, guess what? Because of DOGE 339 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:48.880 and Elon Musk, hundreds if not thousands of those sites, we're 340 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.240 talking fishing areas, we're talking campgrounds, picnic areas, 341 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.840 reservoirs, dams, all of those have been shut down because of 342 00:20:55.840 --> 00:20:59.600 budget cuts. Those are public lands and water. So we're talking about them too. 343 00:20:59.600 --> 00:21:03.080 So we're not just talking to, or trying to talk to, 344 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.200 you know, the, the trophy elk hunter in, in the wilds of Montana 345 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:10.880 or the, the fly fishermen and, and the Tetons. 346 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:14.560 We're also talking about the bass fisherman who lives 347 00:21:14.560 --> 00:21:17.560 for the weekend where he wants to crack open a beer and sit in a 348 00:21:17.560 --> 00:21:21.320 boat and pop a worm into the water. That person enjoys and 349 00:21:21.320 --> 00:21:24.880 is enriched by public lands and waters as much as everybody 350 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:28.630 else. Now extend that even further. Say, for example, example, 351 00:21:28.630 --> 00:21:32.150 somebody who does live in a city, maybe they take their kids to a local 352 00:21:32.150 --> 00:21:35.990 park or swimming pool or even a tennis court. They 353 00:21:35.990 --> 00:21:39.710 might benefit from something called the Land and Water Conservation Fund. That is a federal 354 00:21:39.790 --> 00:21:43.390 fund that uses no taxpayer dollars and 355 00:21:43.390 --> 00:21:46.830 it essentially pays for those facilities 356 00:21:47.070 --> 00:21:50.710 and access and more public lands through offshore oil drilling in the 357 00:21:50.710 --> 00:21:54.270 Gulf of Mexico. Something a lot of people don't really know, but even that is 358 00:21:54.270 --> 00:21:57.950 under attack. We were talking about Secretary Burgum, Secretary Burgum wants to 359 00:21:57.950 --> 00:22:01.090 raid that fund to pay for Park Service 360 00:22:01.730 --> 00:22:05.570 maintenance backlog, so fixing outhouses and whatnot. We think that is 361 00:22:05.730 --> 00:22:09.450 awful. It's a misdirection of priorities. And we want to center 362 00:22:09.450 --> 00:22:13.250 the conversation and basically let everybody know that they 363 00:22:13.250 --> 00:22:16.930 benefit from public lands and waters whether they know it or not, because 364 00:22:16.930 --> 00:22:20.650 they might not even realize that they do well. And I think a lot of 365 00:22:20.650 --> 00:22:24.330 people, Joel, go to the National Parks in the summer, and 366 00:22:24.330 --> 00:22:27.250 there are long lines. There is an incredible 367 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:31.660 desire to go and see these natural places, to be 368 00:22:31.660 --> 00:22:35.140 able to kind of envision what it was like for the pioneers. And 369 00:22:35.380 --> 00:22:38.540 so this idea that they're underutilized, they're 370 00:22:38.540 --> 00:22:42.100 underutilized by the rich people because they don't own them, 371 00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:46.620 they're over prescribed, which means that there isn't enough land for the 372 00:22:46.620 --> 00:22:49.620 demand that we have for people who want that experience. 373 00:22:50.180 --> 00:22:53.860 And so we should be thinking about how we make public 374 00:22:53.860 --> 00:22:57.710 lands more accessible to more people, but, you know, which 375 00:22:57.710 --> 00:23:01.550 is affordable. Go ahead, Land. I said this earlier, but I'm going to reiterate it. 376 00:23:02.110 --> 00:23:05.710 $1.2 trillion benefit to the economy that is 377 00:23:05.710 --> 00:23:09.430 sustainable. What other, like, like what other part of 378 00:23:09.430 --> 00:23:12.310 our economy is, like, we know is going to be $1.2 trillion at least? That's 379 00:23:12.310 --> 00:23:15.870 a huge benefit to all Americans. The second piece I would say 380 00:23:15.870 --> 00:23:19.510 is clean air and clean water. If you never step foot on public 381 00:23:19.510 --> 00:23:22.190 land, you got to go outside, you got to breathe air, and you got to 382 00:23:22.190 --> 00:23:25.210 drink clean, cold water. And so to me, these ecological 383 00:23:25.210 --> 00:23:28.810 services that our public lands provide for our entire 384 00:23:28.810 --> 00:23:31.730 country are essential to every single American. 385 00:23:32.330 --> 00:23:35.610 Heidi, I'm going to throw this one to you, though. You mentioned earlier 386 00:23:36.010 --> 00:23:39.490 about, you know, whether or not Donald Trump 387 00:23:39.490 --> 00:23:43.090 cares, you know, in terms of following regulation and 388 00:23:43.090 --> 00:23:45.770 law. Did you ever think Donald Trump's been on a hike? 389 00:23:47.130 --> 00:23:50.970 I don't think the guy's ever been on hike. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I 390 00:23:50.970 --> 00:23:54.750 mean, this guy, this man of the people. Yeah, I bet you he wouldn't. He 391 00:23:54.750 --> 00:23:57.590 wouldn't know his way. I mean, it would be kind of fun. Point him in 392 00:23:57.590 --> 00:24:00.870 the direction and say, go out and shoot an elk and gut it where it's 393 00:24:00.870 --> 00:24:04.470 at and carry it in, you know, Mr. He-Man, macho, 394 00:24:04.470 --> 00:24:07.030 no way he's going to be able to do that! It's a long walk from 395 00:24:07.030 --> 00:24:09.350 that golf cart to where you kick the golf ball. 396 00:24:10.549 --> 00:24:14.310 But let me ask you this. If we know that he 397 00:24:14.310 --> 00:24:18.110 doesn't adhere to the rule of law, that he 398 00:24:18.110 --> 00:24:21.790 doesn't do that, he doesn't care whether it's the rule of law or 399 00:24:21.790 --> 00:24:25.570 not. And in the end, he tends to win because he's got the 400 00:24:25.570 --> 00:24:29.130 right people in the court system that he wants. Isn't 401 00:24:29.130 --> 00:24:32.850 that a bigger threat than Mike Lee? Oh, I think right 402 00:24:32.850 --> 00:24:36.530 now it is. But you know, one thing 403 00:24:36.530 --> 00:24:39.970 that happened in the courts, you know, it used to be that if one district 404 00:24:39.970 --> 00:24:43.770 court issued a nationwide injunction, it was honored. Which is why, 405 00:24:43.850 --> 00:24:47.370 you know, whether you agreed with them or not, when Biden tried to do student 406 00:24:47.370 --> 00:24:50.830 loan reform or student loan reductions for people, 407 00:24:51.230 --> 00:24:54.630 he got stopped. And he got stopped by one district court when they were form 408 00:24:54.630 --> 00:24:58.230 shopping. Now, what we know is that you're gonna have to file in every 409 00:24:58.230 --> 00:25:02.030 district where public lands are or you're gonna have to file 410 00:25:02.030 --> 00:25:04.910 class action, which I hope these guys are 411 00:25:05.070 --> 00:25:08.710 organizing to try and stop it. Because look at the level of 412 00:25:08.710 --> 00:25:12.390 extortion. I mean, basically he knows he's got 413 00:25:12.390 --> 00:25:16.110 a deficit problem and so he's out extorting money from 414 00:25:16.270 --> 00:25:19.830 companies like Nvidia saying you gotta pay us 15% of 415 00:25:19.830 --> 00:25:23.050 what you sell into China. He's out, you know, doing tariffs. 416 00:25:24.090 --> 00:25:27.730 You know, when Mike Lee comes in and says, Mr. President, you could make 417 00:25:27.730 --> 00:25:31.410 $3 billion tomorrow, all you got to do is sell 418 00:25:31.410 --> 00:25:35.250 this little hunk of land in Montana or this hunk of 419 00:25:35.250 --> 00:25:39.050 land, you know, and we got buyers lined up, including some of your friends in 420 00:25:39.050 --> 00:25:42.810 Saudi Arabia. And you know, off, we're off to the races. 421 00:25:42.810 --> 00:25:46.410 And so we have to be prepared to tackle this legally too, 422 00:25:46.410 --> 00:25:50.120 Joel. All right, Land, last comments from you. People's 423 00:25:50.120 --> 00:25:53.440 voices still matter. They may not think they do. We're against 424 00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:57.200 the biggest threats to this country and we're just talking about public lands, but I 425 00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:00.200 think it goes much larger than that. A lot of people don't know what to 426 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:03.600 do. We all need to rise up and use our voices 427 00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:07.640 and make sure that democracy still works in this country. And that's the only thing 428 00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:10.520 that we have, and I have a lot of faith in the people. If we 429 00:26:10.520 --> 00:26:13.440 unite, we will get what we want. But if you sit on your hands, we 430 00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:17.130 are, no matter what, we're going to lose. Aaron, last comments 431 00:26:17.130 --> 00:26:20.530 from you. I would ask folks to give us a follow on 432 00:26:20.530 --> 00:26:24.370 Instagram. We're @AmericanHuntersAnglers. You can find 433 00:26:24.370 --> 00:26:27.970 us there. And part of our strategy is to really use social 434 00:26:27.970 --> 00:26:31.770 media the best way we can. In fact, and Senator, you can correct me 435 00:26:31.770 --> 00:26:35.050 if I'm wrong, but I would argue that the old fashioned method of 436 00:26:35.210 --> 00:26:38.970 calling your lawmakers may not be as effective now as it used to be 437 00:26:38.970 --> 00:26:42.810 because they've gotten the memo, and they don't tend to answer phones anymore. 438 00:26:42.810 --> 00:26:46.490 But if you go on social media and if you find them on Facebook, 439 00:26:46.730 --> 00:26:50.450 Instagram, Twitter and tag them and comment in the 440 00:26:50.450 --> 00:26:54.170 comments, that in our experience at least seems to be quite 441 00:26:54.170 --> 00:26:57.730 effective in moving the needle. We saw it happen with the attempt of 442 00:26:57.730 --> 00:27:01.050 Senator Lee to sell off public lands. We'll keep the gas on. And 443 00:27:01.450 --> 00:27:04.770 we want to make sure that people are following along because a lot of people 444 00:27:04.770 --> 00:27:08.290 are tuning out. We want to make sure people are tuning in because again, it 445 00:27:08.290 --> 00:27:11.710 is our very heritage at stake. And we want to make sure that every, everybody 446 00:27:11.710 --> 00:27:15.510 knows exactly what the threat is. Well, keep the fight up, you 447 00:27:15.510 --> 00:27:19.350 guys. Keep it. You gotta win. So appreciate you guys coming on the Hot 448 00:27:19.350 --> 00:27:21.750 Dish. Appreciate you guys. Appreciate you having us on. 449 00:27:27.190 --> 00:27:30.870 Joel, my goodness, you had an exciting week. In fact, 450 00:27:30.870 --> 00:27:34.550 the whole family had an exciting week. It didn't quite turn 451 00:27:34.550 --> 00:27:38.230 out the way we wanted it to, but boy, was it exciting. But talk about 452 00:27:38.550 --> 00:27:41.910 your experience at the Little League World Series Regional, 453 00:27:42.070 --> 00:27:45.620 Midwest Regional. Yeah, well, you know, Fargo, 454 00:27:46.100 --> 00:27:49.700 my grandson plays on the 12 and under team, the Fargo All 455 00:27:49.700 --> 00:27:53.460 Stars, and he was a center fielder. He runs. He's out there 456 00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:55.540 because he's as fast as what his grandpa was. 457 00:27:57.860 --> 00:28:01.620 That would not be true. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Anyway, 458 00:28:01.860 --> 00:28:05.300 they came up short. On Wednesday they beat 459 00:28:05.540 --> 00:28:09.060 South Dakota, and on Friday they lost to South 460 00:28:09.060 --> 00:28:12.260 Dakota. Had they beat them, they'd be in Williamsburg, 461 00:28:12.820 --> 00:28:16.580 Pennsylvania. And so they were that close. They played on ESPN, 462 00:28:16.580 --> 00:28:20.380 which is what Heidi's getting at, where my whole family was glued to the 463 00:28:20.380 --> 00:28:24.180 TV. I was in Indiana at the game, watching 464 00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:27.459 my wife have a heart attack and trying to pretend it didn't matter to me. 465 00:28:27.459 --> 00:28:31.300 Heidi, how's that? And those of you who are out there 466 00:28:32.020 --> 00:28:35.500 know we talk about so many things and there's so many challenges, but 467 00:28:35.500 --> 00:28:38.880 somehow watching these 12 year old kids 468 00:28:39.280 --> 00:28:43.040 play baseball. Tune into ESPN, they're 469 00:28:43.040 --> 00:28:46.760 going to cover it. And it really is, it's a fun 470 00:28:46.760 --> 00:28:49.960 thing to watch. And I've actually watched the Little League before on 471 00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:53.679 ESPN and really enjoyed it. I enjoy it as much as I enjoy 472 00:28:53.679 --> 00:28:57.520 watching professional baseball because somehow it means more. It's 473 00:28:57.520 --> 00:29:01.320 got that "Sandlot" vibe. Yeah, I've played a lot of sports in my life, 474 00:29:01.320 --> 00:29:05.120 but when you watch 12 year olds that close playing on 475 00:29:05.120 --> 00:29:08.160 ESPN, which to them is the religious network, 476 00:29:08.800 --> 00:29:12.480 but you, you watch how, how into it they are and how, 477 00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:16.320 you know, you lose that one big game after you beat that same team 478 00:29:16.560 --> 00:29:20.199 and you walk on that field thinking, we got these guys. You know, 479 00:29:20.199 --> 00:29:23.800 they're 12 year olds. I mean, some of these kids are, are six foot 480 00:29:23.800 --> 00:29:27.400 tall and some of these kids are under five foot tall and they're knocking 481 00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.920 heads and playing together. And it's what sport 482 00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:34.800 is all about. The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. But 483 00:29:34.800 --> 00:29:38.520 it teaches you a lot of things. For my grandson's case, my 484 00:29:38.520 --> 00:29:42.200 other son in law, not his father, said it best when he said, 485 00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:46.040 'I just hope this isn't the highlight of Reed's life 486 00:29:46.040 --> 00:29:48.280 already at 12 years old,' Heidi. 487 00:29:49.800 --> 00:29:53.520 Well, congratulations, Joel. It was so much fun for all of 488 00:29:53.520 --> 00:29:57.000 us. But let's turn to the real world that we live in. 489 00:29:57.580 --> 00:30:01.340 And the crops look great. I mean, actually we have a very 490 00:30:01.340 --> 00:30:05.020 good friend, happens to be related to our sister in a weird 491 00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:08.700 way. When I asked him, you know, he's always like, I don't know, you know, 492 00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:12.460 when you ask him how the crops are. And this time he went, they're looking 493 00:30:12.540 --> 00:30:16.300 really good. So there are lots of, lots of crops out there, lots of good 494 00:30:16.300 --> 00:30:19.740 looking crops. I just got a text from 495 00:30:19.900 --> 00:30:23.580 another guy that we know in Jamestown, had a beautiful sunflower field 496 00:30:23.970 --> 00:30:27.770 leveled, Joel, by the weather. And so these farmers have so 497 00:30:27.770 --> 00:30:31.570 much stress in their life just praying for rain or praying that'll quit raining, 498 00:30:31.730 --> 00:30:35.370 you know, praying that they don't get hailed out. And now they have the additional 499 00:30:35.370 --> 00:30:39.170 stress of the ag markets and this is devastating 500 00:30:39.490 --> 00:30:43.090 that, you know, we grow more in this country than we can actually 501 00:30:43.090 --> 00:30:46.850 consume. And so we need that export market on the margins 502 00:30:46.850 --> 00:30:50.630 and it's gone. So what are you hearing from the farmers that you talk 503 00:30:50.630 --> 00:30:53.910 to every day, Joel? You know, I think it's starting to catch up a little 504 00:30:53.910 --> 00:30:57.550 bit in this sense that, you know, some of them are 505 00:30:57.550 --> 00:31:01.190 hanging onto equipment for a year longer than what they normally would. 506 00:31:01.350 --> 00:31:05.110 A lot of equipment in my neck of the woods comes down from Canada. 507 00:31:05.750 --> 00:31:09.470 Some of that specialized equipment, you know, not the type of stuff you 508 00:31:09.470 --> 00:31:13.230 buy from John Deere, Case IH, that type of thing. I'm not talking 509 00:31:13.230 --> 00:31:17.030 about tractors and combines, I'm talking about diggers, I'm 510 00:31:17.030 --> 00:31:20.590 talking about seeders, I'm talking about things like that. And 511 00:31:20.590 --> 00:31:24.350 so, you know, they had things scheduled, but then they look at the 512 00:31:24.350 --> 00:31:27.390 tariffs and they're saying, well, maybe I can wait a year here, maybe I can 513 00:31:27.390 --> 00:31:31.190 do this or that. All of that is one thing. You know, 514 00:31:31.190 --> 00:31:34.950 it's, it's, to them, it's a business practice and it's about depreciation. 515 00:31:35.190 --> 00:31:38.950 What matters to them the most is that China's 516 00:31:38.950 --> 00:31:42.550 not buying. There's no containers going. And in fact, they're 517 00:31:42.550 --> 00:31:46.360 paying over a buck more for a bushel of 518 00:31:46.360 --> 00:31:50.040 soybeans than what we would charge them. And that's how 519 00:31:50.040 --> 00:31:53.840 ticked China is and how much they want to expand into Brazil and 520 00:31:53.840 --> 00:31:57.680 Argentina. And Heidi, I don't know about you, but the farmers 521 00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:01.520 I'm talking to are starting to get that, that long term 522 00:32:01.520 --> 00:32:05.120 this is going to be a major problem, especially with soybeans. Well, you know, 523 00:32:05.120 --> 00:32:08.960 we went through this during the first term with the farm 524 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:12.670 economy being ground zero for the injury that tariffs 525 00:32:12.670 --> 00:32:16.470 would bring. And, you know, there was the assistance, right? 526 00:32:16.630 --> 00:32:19.950 But there's a whole lot of other people are getting hurt by these tariffs, 527 00:32:19.950 --> 00:32:23.030 businesses that are getting hurt. And as we see 528 00:32:23.430 --> 00:32:27.030 now inflation ticking up, and as we see those 529 00:32:27.030 --> 00:32:30.350 inventories, when everybody bought up a lot, you know, to avoid the 530 00:32:30.350 --> 00:32:34.030 tariffs, now you can't do that. Everybody kind of waited to see if 531 00:32:34.030 --> 00:32:37.830 they're going to pass prices along. Now you can't wait and see because you got 532 00:32:37.830 --> 00:32:41.670 to operate on your margins. So, I mean, I think that we're going to 533 00:32:41.670 --> 00:32:45.070 start seeing the consequences of these tariffs very soon. 534 00:32:45.470 --> 00:32:49.190 Yeah. And the other thing that we see all over the country, it isn't 535 00:32:49.190 --> 00:32:52.590 just here in the upper Midwest, but all over that, 536 00:32:52.910 --> 00:32:56.470 that One Country Hot Dish neck of the woods, is the fact 537 00:32:56.470 --> 00:33:00.310 that elevators aren't buying. There's nobody saying, okay, you 538 00:33:00.310 --> 00:33:04.030 know, I got space for you because they don't have space for you, 539 00:33:04.030 --> 00:33:07.510 and they don't want to put it on the ground because then they lose some 540 00:33:07.510 --> 00:33:10.790 of what they put on the ground. And so a lot of these farmers are 541 00:33:10.790 --> 00:33:14.450 looking at how much bend space they have, looking at crop that they 542 00:33:14.450 --> 00:33:18.210 haven't sold yet, and they're sitting there going, what the heck? I 543 00:33:18.210 --> 00:33:21.810 mean, I'm going to end up with more crop than what I can do. As 544 00:33:21.810 --> 00:33:25.450 you pointed out, the yields look pretty good in some of these areas. I'm going 545 00:33:25.450 --> 00:33:29.250 to end up with more crop than I know how to get rid 546 00:33:29.250 --> 00:33:32.530 of before I can sell. And that's a major issue, 547 00:33:32.530 --> 00:33:36.210 Hyde. Well, I just suggest that, you know, one of the 548 00:33:36.210 --> 00:33:39.570 things that we do here at the Hot Dish is we talk about agriculture because 549 00:33:39.570 --> 00:33:43.380 that's a big component of the rural economy. And this is one 550 00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:47.220 of those places where the economy is not going well and we'll 551 00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:51.060 see what happens come harvest. But my prediction, Joel, is we're going to see 552 00:33:51.060 --> 00:33:54.740 a lot of those white sacks that we've seen in the past, those 553 00:33:54.740 --> 00:33:58.540 long - if you drive through rural America and you see a big, 554 00:33:58.540 --> 00:34:02.260 long, white snake, that's stored grain. And that 555 00:34:02.260 --> 00:34:05.980 stored grain isn't, I mean, that's not, not a condition you want 556 00:34:05.980 --> 00:34:09.819 to store it in permanently. And so this is, you lose a lot 557 00:34:09.819 --> 00:34:12.699 of value putting it on the ground. You lose a lot of value putting it 558 00:34:12.699 --> 00:34:16.539 in a sack. Yeah. And my prediction is this, that the 559 00:34:16.539 --> 00:34:20.259 federal government under the Trump Administration, which is so 560 00:34:20.259 --> 00:34:23.939 incredibly conscious of debt - not! - 561 00:34:23.939 --> 00:34:27.539 is going to use this as an opportunity in those Red state 562 00:34:27.779 --> 00:34:31.419 areas where they want to continue to have that level of support, 563 00:34:31.419 --> 00:34:34.890 and they're going to use the word disaster, even though yields 564 00:34:34.890 --> 00:34:38.610 are going to be unbelievable in a lot of those areas, and they're going to 565 00:34:38.610 --> 00:34:41.850 use the word disaster to send disaster payments. And 566 00:34:42.170 --> 00:34:45.770 so the ag producers out there aren't going to want me to say this 567 00:34:45.770 --> 00:34:49.410 word, but in many ways, the federal government is going to have to subsidize 568 00:34:49.410 --> 00:34:53.090 them rather than allow what was the free market, 569 00:34:53.090 --> 00:34:56.650 which was working pretty doggone good when it came to sales 570 00:34:56.650 --> 00:35:00.450 of soybeans, for example. Well, and, you 571 00:35:00.450 --> 00:35:03.940 know, if you're somebody who's making parts for the supply 572 00:35:03.940 --> 00:35:07.460 chain and your aluminum price just went up 40-50%, 573 00:35:08.260 --> 00:35:11.980 your steel price just went up 40-50%, and you're trying to 574 00:35:11.980 --> 00:35:15.700 compete with people who can buy their steel and aluminum much cheaper, 575 00:35:15.860 --> 00:35:19.460 you might argue you're going to give relief to farmers, you ought to be giving 576 00:35:19.460 --> 00:35:23.100 me some relief because of this. And so, you know, it's going to 577 00:35:23.100 --> 00:35:26.540 be, it's going to be interesting. And I always laugh, you know, Joel, you know, 578 00:35:26.540 --> 00:35:30.300 I do this, you know, when people say, 'oh, see, it's working, you know, 579 00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:32.500 blah, blah, blah.' And you want to say, 'well, then you don't need anything. You 580 00:35:32.500 --> 00:35:36.340 don't need any, you know, you don't need any bailout,' which is 581 00:35:36.900 --> 00:35:40.540 what I call it. Anyway, Joel, we will talk more about what's 582 00:35:40.540 --> 00:35:44.260 happening with the agricultural economy as we get closer to 583 00:35:44.260 --> 00:35:47.980 harvest, but I just thought we should kind of raise it. And we should 584 00:35:47.980 --> 00:35:51.820 say: way to go, Fargo. We're really all proud of you, and I'm 585 00:35:51.820 --> 00:35:55.500 sorry everybody else that we beat, but it was really fun watching those 586 00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:59.220 little guys, you know, performed so well. And I was amazed 587 00:35:59.220 --> 00:36:00.460 by the pitching, by the way. 588 00:36:03.100 --> 00:36:06.860 Learning more about how conservationists are fighting for public land was 589 00:36:06.860 --> 00:36:10.300 really inspiring. If there's something else we need to talk about, 590 00:36:10.380 --> 00:36:13.900 please let us know. You know what, email us your thoughts. 591 00:36:14.060 --> 00:36:15.460 Our email address is 592 00:36:15.460 --> 00:36:19.260 podcast@onecountryproject.org. That's 593 00:36:19.260 --> 00:36:21.980 podcast@onecountryproject.org. 594 00:36:23.520 --> 00:36:27.320 And to keep up with everything One Country is doing, be 595 00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:30.480 sure to follow us on Bluesky and Substack. 596 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:34.040 And thanks for joining us today on the Hot Dish, which is brought to you 597 00:36:34.040 --> 00:36:37.800 by One Country Project, making sure the voices of the rest of us 598 00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:39.840 are heard in Washington. Learn 599 00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:43.520 more at onecountryproject.org. 600 00:36:43.520 --> 00:36:47.080 And we will be back in two weeks with more Hot Dish, comfort food for 601 00:36:47.080 --> 00:36:47.700 rural America.