The Modern Hotelier #123: Dark Tourism, Spirit Airlines Bankruptcy, & Cleveland Brown's Opening Hotel | Hospitality Hot Topics
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Steve Carran: Welcome to another edition of the Modern Hotelier. Today we're going to do hospitality hot topics, talking about what happened in November in the hospitality industry. As always, I'm joined by my host, David Melilli, and we're joined by our guest host, Jackie Nunley. Thank you for stopping by, Jackie. How are we doing today?
Jacqueline Nunley: Thank you for having me. We're doing really well.
Steve Carran: Good, good. So, uh, let's dive into our first topic. Uh, two trends that are coming out that are looking to be more popular in 2025 are dark tourism and scalecations. Dark tourism, if you're not familiar, is visiting places associated with death, Tragedy or suffering, and a skillcation is where you go on vacation to either learn a new skill or to hone a new skill.
Jackie, I gotta ask you on this one. are you into any of these skillcations or dark tourism? What are your thoughts here?
Jacqueline Nunley: I'm into skillcation. I'm not into dark tourism.
Steve Carran: No? Nowhere on the list that you're gonna go for that?
Jacqueline Nunley: I don't think so unless, you know, if there is a growing interest, there's got to be something there. You know, if, if it raises kind of, for me, it raises significant ethical and operational concerns for the travel industry. so I'm going to reach out for maybe The increased foot traffic at sites like this, maybe constrain local infrastructure, you know, something that David and I were just talking about, but, um, you know, I think that heritage sites need a little bit more kind of thinking and planning around them.
there is a positive kind of like outlook to it, which is, you know, the educational opportunity. Um, so I can see where the interest is, is coming from David. What do you think?
David Millili: Yeah, I think life's dark enough. I'll go on YouTube if I want to find out about dark tourism and tragedy and things of that nature. But like you said, a skill cation, which I never heard of before we prepped for this. I think that's pretty interesting. I actually love the idea that the idea of You know, depending on how much holiday you take, you know, mixing in rather than just laying by a pool or a beach actually doing something that kind of is educational or helps advance you with the skill.
So I thought I thought that was pretty cool. So I like that. So as we move from dark tourism and skillcation, we're We're going to talk about Spirit Airlines filing for bankruptcy. So I don't know what you guys think. But for me, it's a bad look if my doctor or dentist. filed for bankruptcy, I'd be a little concerned.
so I don't know how you feel, Steve. 
Steve Carran: Yeah,
I mean, I'm not their target audience. I will say that. I, I'm not, I don't enjoy flying enough to fly a budget airline, but here's, here's something that stuck out to me, which kind of tells a story already. in the first six months of the year, Spirit passengers flew 2 percent more than they did the same period last year.
However, they were paying 10 percent less. per mile, and the revenue per mile from fares was down nearly 20%. So just seeing those numbers, not something that is a successful business model, but going to stick with my United. I know that's the people with the Delta Airlines are not quite as high up as them.
But Jackie, what do you think about Spirit here? Are you bummed out that you can't fly Spirit anymore?
Jacqueline Nunley: Yes, I'm definitely bummed out. You know, um, I love every airline. So while the, direct effect, on spirit airlines, I think about the employees and the passengers. the restructuring could kind of lead to operational adjustments. So that might be a good thing. It might be a different thing, but it's important to look for the light, uh, you know, in every, crises.
So, you know, think about maybe changes around their routes could help optimize. You know, what you spoke about, Steve, which is, you know, these cost custom measures that they're trying to implement or have to implement. But, you know, overall, that could improve efficiency and financial health. So it's something that I would think that, you know, uh, should be looked at as not a terrible thing, but an opportunity to, make it better.
Steve Carran: I think they should shift from planes to maybe flying taxis. So, you know, we can move more things to the air than having to deal with all this travel.
Jacqueline Nunley: I want to go back to trains. Let's do one of those on May 2025, the year of trains and take some trains and report back.
Steve Carran: not against that.
Jacqueline Nunley: Yes, but talking about trains, um, you know, I hope to do some train travel next year. But let's talk about what just happened, Thanksgiving. So, a new record was set for the busiest day in, US commercial air travel history.
according to the TSA, and we had about 3 million passengers who were screened, I think that that was from an article this morning, surpassing, the record set just a few months ago in July. So this is a really significant milestone. It makes me really happy that people are continuing on the trend.
I don't want to lean into too much of you have to go and see family, but it looks like people are motivated to travel and go and see their families. But, you know, despite all the potential disruptions from winter weather, very strange weather this, this, this winter, but, um, I think that overall I'm hearing that it went pretty smoothly.
So, you know, what are you guys hearing on your, your side? David, what are you hearing?
David Millili: for me, you know, uh, being the old guy, I feel like every year is a record for Thanksgiving every year. There's a record broken for travel. This was one of the first Years or maybe the only, uh, year that I've actually, you know, with the family, did a road trip, uh, was in California, you know, driving from Phoenix and, you know, through the, the entire, you know, Thanksgiving period, the traffic was bad.
I mean, it was, there was a lot of people on the road, so I know air and TSA, but it seemed like a lot of people were trying to get somewhere. And, um. As we were talking before we started recording, you know, California already has a slight issue with traffic. And, uh, let me just tell you, it was, it was bad.
So for me, I can see those record numbers happening. Obviously more people and, uh, more people wanting to get out and explore things. How about you, Steve? What do you think? 
Steve Carran: I mean, yeah, it seemed to be the year of delay free travel. Like Jackie said, there were 232,000 flights that went out and there were point, 0.3 were cancelled and only 1.2 were delayed. And, um, I know in Colorado here, we had, we had a snow storm that was looking to delay people, but never did, Didn't seem to really happen.
So David, maybe, uh, taking the skies is a little bit more efficient than taking the roads for traveling.
Jacqueline Nunley: Yeah, David, you need to pick, pick the skies next time.
David Millili: I know, it's just, we have too many, too many places to go to, but
Steve Carran: next time you'll have to take the private jet, David. So you don't have to worry about that traffic. 
Jacqueline Nunley: Oh, you better start offsetting those carbon footprint, you know, scores. Start now, and then you'll be able to fly private. A
Steve Carran: True. keeping on the theme of travel, we are filming this a day before, but tomorrow is Travel Tuesday, which has become this trend, I feel like, in the past few years where, you know, you have Cyber Monday for all online discounts, Black Friday retail discounts, and now we have all travel deals on, uh, Tuesdays after Thanksgiving.
anybody gonna take advantage of these? Jackie, are you taking a, we'll start with you, any, you taking advantage of any travel deals, or? Yeah, you keepin the look folk for anything? 
Jacqueline Nunley: A hundred percent. I am definitely taking advantage of this, so. over the weekend I was looking at cruises. Um, I was also looking at trains, again.
David Millili: Yeah. 
Jacqueline Nunley: that's probably going to be my 2025 kind of travel plans. But I know that the analysis online said, you know, there's been a significant spike already. for, uh, hotels, for flights, for cruises.
And it seems like Travel Tuesday is becoming a little bit more, known, so it's going to start being a trend. Do we see it kind of going into kind of like the madness of Black Friday? Is everybody going to be looking at that and will, will it go global so that everybody can take advantage of this? I'm really curious to see where this is going to go.
I know that airline bookings. increased over 60 percent and I think it's, uh, cruise lines, you know, their bookings increased more than 50 percent last year. So, um, I'm putting my 5 virtual money on this with you guys to say that next year it's going to be even bigger. What do you think?
David Millili: Yes, I hope so. I kind of feel like I was the guy who was reporting on the shopping mall on Black Friday where there was nobody there because I kind of felt like I really didn't get anything for travel Tuesday for all the airlines and all the hotels I've stayed at and I just didn't feel like, and again, maybe it was just me, but I feel like, and like you said, maybe next year it'll get even bigger, but it seems like a great opportunity for hotels, for airlines.
Trains, buses, whatever to do something. But again, I kind of feel like a lot of people just missed out on the opportunity for me. Like I thought I was going to be somewhat inundated with American airlines, pinging me through my app and United and, you know, Marriott and Hilton, all the, you know, the, the, the bigger brands and even some of the independent hotels I've stayed at, but it just really didn't feel as big of a, I haven't felt it.
and to your point, hopefully. This is another one of those things where hospitality sometimes is behind the trends. Hopefully they'll latch onto it and take advantage of it. Cause I got a ton of stuff from all the retailers, every retailer I buy from for Cyber Monday, Black Friday. I got a bunch of stuff.
Jacqueline Nunley: You bring a very good point. That's a really, really good point because, you know, with all the, uh, impulsive buying behavior of Black Friday and Cyber Monday, you know, maybe this is an opportunity for, for travel companies to boost revenue during this, this quiet period as well, but it also reflects exactly what you said.
It's an opportunity to actually Start to build some loyalty, you know, or take advantage of, of, of keeping your loyal customers coming back.
David Millili: Well, we were talking about it. So I just took this California road trip, two nights in an independent, two nights at a Marriott brand, two nights at a Hilton, brand independent ish, but part of the tapestry collection and then an Airbnb. So I had four touch points where during that period, they've could have said, Hey, hope you enjoy, hope you enjoyed your stay with us last week.
Just so you know, we've got the following promotion coming up on travel Tuesday. and it was kind of crickets. So, well, speaking of disappointments, the Cleveland Browns are opening a hotel. sorry, all you Cleveland Browns fans, I'm rooting for you, so the Cleveland Browns are opening a hotel and it just seems like it makes sense that an NFL team or a sports organization would kind of have a hotel near their stadium, especially NFL, because you've got only 17 games.
You've got, what's it, you know, seven or eight. Home games, depending on the year, and a lot of NFL fans travel and like to experience, um, what it's like being in the visitor stadium. So, I just thought that was a really great, I seem like just Captain Obvious type idea. Like, why hasn't somebody really pushed for this more?
Because all these sports people get into restaurants and things of that nature. So, so Steve, what are your thoughts being a Green Bay fan? Would you go, would you go stay at the Lambeau Field Hotel?
Steve Carran: Absolutely. 10 out of 10. 100%. I mean, and I feel like both of us, you're Philly guy, we both come from these passionate fan bases, where Hey, we're having people come in from all over the country to these home games. It's not just people around the Philly or Green Bay area, right? And I feel like just talking about Green Bay, there's not a ton of hotel options there.
It's a lot of Super 8s, Motel 6s, kind of these, more budget friendly hotels, but They're selling out every night, and if you go to Lambeau Field, it's just houses around it. It's built in the middle of the neighborhood, but they've really built up the area around it, and to put a hotel right there?
during the football season, I mean, that's gonna be great occupancy, and just seems like you said. Like a layup. So I thought it was really cool. It seems like the Browns are doing some really cool things around their stadium to attract people to come to Cleveland more. And hey, I love Cleveland.
It's a great Midwestern state. I'll go on the record for that. But Jackie, what do you think? Are you a big football fan? Are you going to go stay at the Cleveland Browns Hotel?
Jacqueline Nunley: You know, I am not, but isn't this an opportunity to make me a fan?
David Millili: Right. 
Jacqueline Nunley: You know, when, uh, when I, uh, took a look at the news, you know, what resonated with me is that they're also going to have residential apartments. Um, but what really got me was, um, coming with that is also a retail space being designed. So now you got me.
So maybe get me into the sport, but you know, put me in a neighborhood where I can walk around and give me great shopping. And yes, that's complete for me. That will complete the experience. So it's not all learn the game, you know, watch the game and get into it and become a fan. So that's. That's kind of what I, I think.
I think it's a good thing. I think we should see more projects like this coming into, into our space where it encompasses the experience, not just the, um, you know, event.
Steve Carran: absolutely.
David Millili: That does it for another edition of the Modern Hotelier Hospitality Hot Topics, Hospitality's Most Engaged Podcast.
Thank you for joining us and we hope to see you again soon.