Adam Hatcher: Hello and welcome to the 21 Clear Podcast where we talk about
anything to help you chaos, proof your family business so you can build a great
company with a strong family around it.
I'm your host, Adam Hatcher, and I am excited today to share a
conversation with you with Shane Arthur, a phenomenal executive
coach from Raleigh, North Carolina.
And we're gonna talk with Shane about the idea.
Of regret.
How do we build a great company and not look back with regret?
I want to take a couple of minutes and share an idea with you that
has helped me as I think about setting goals as an owner, I.
But then we're gonna quickly pivot to an interview with Shane where we expand
on that because families are in a unique position to define success and broaden
it beyond just company financial results.
So let me share an idea and then we're going to go to the interview with Shane.
We were at a conference, a supplier conference for a
customer of the family's company.
One of the, one of the company's executives got up and shared with the
suppliers, many of whom were family businesses and family owned companies.
An idea that was new to me, growth, liquidity, and control.
When you work in your family company, you get to set the priorities.
The overall strategic priority, and you can pick from those three, usually two
of them, growth, liquidity, and control.
So growth is expanding the company.
Liquidity is having money outside of the company to.
Give to the owners to do things outside of the business versus reinvesting it.
And then control is the degree to which the family ownership group maintains
control of the company versus the bank, or private equity or outside investment.
When you think about setting a big strategic goal for your company,
a strategic foundation, you can typically pick two of those three
and trade it off against the third.
Let me give you an example.
If you are a family owned company that prioritizes growth and control,
what that means is you're seeking to grow the business and because you
want to keep control, you're gonna do it by reinvesting the profits.
You won't have as much to distribute to the owners for them to do things
outside of the company because you don't wanna bring in outside investment.
For the capital needs to grow.
You don't want to become over leveraged to the bank, or if you do
take a loan out to the bank, you're gonna pay it off pretty aggressively.
So you're offsetting liquidity owner distributions, you're offsetting that or
trading it off to be growth and control.
We're recording this at the end of May.
You're probably starting to look back on the first half of your year, look to the
second half, and even begin to think about strategic planning for the next year.
If you've never thought about this growth, liquidity, and control, and
sat down as a family and said, huh, I wonder what we are, what are our two?
It could be one, but probably two.
What are our priorities?
It is a helpful framework for you, but that's not the only way In family
owned companies we define success.
Shane Arthur, I.
Has a way.
He's our guest today and he has a way of helping owners and executives, family
owned businesses or not look at what their goals and priorities are, and then make
sure they don't look back in a few years when they've accomplished them and regret
having missed out on something bigger.
I'm excited to share this conversation with Shane with you.
Let's drop right into it.
Shane Arthur, welcome to the 21 Clear Podcast.
How are things in Raleigh, North Carolina?
Shane Arthur: They're good, man.
They're really good.
Thanks for asking.
Adam Hatcher: Absolutely.
Uh, y'all, I am so excited to share some time with Shane with you because
he is uniquely qualified to talk about this idea of setting priorities and
being successful as a company, but do it in a way that we don't look.
Back with regret, and Shane, you won't talk about yourself.
So I will In June of 2019, Ja Shane took a step out and started Arthur
Coaching and told me a while ago, he woke up in the morning wanting to make
sure that owners and executives did not look back in five years with regret.
How could he help them take steps today?
To not look back with regret.
And this approach, Shane, I mean, you'd been in business for less than
two and a half years, and December of 2021, influenced Digest named
Shane, one of the top 20 executive coaches in Raleigh, North Carolina.
And you hadn't been in business that long.
And now here we are almost six years later.
Uh, actually six years later the next month.
So congratulations to you.
Shane Arthur: Thanks.
Adam Hatcher: So I just wanna jump right in.
I.
You are really good at helping people that are successful.
Think about regret, like what is it about that that interests
you with successful people?
Shane Arthur: Thanks, Adam.
One of the things about about that leaving story was, I had a good career
and as they put the next promotion on the table, it was a third of the country.
Uh, and at that moment we had a six month old and a 2-year-old, and life
was already stretched pretty thin, and I could see where I could keep enjoying
my career, but it was clear quickly that there would be real regret from
all that I would've missed at home.
And so it was a part of my story, um, and I found working more and more with
business owners and CEOs that it's a regular conversation with folks.
Adam Hatcher: And is it a conversation that when people come to you, is it a
conversation they've been having or is it something that getting a breath with
you, it allows 'em to start talking about.
Shane Arthur: It is usually an itch that's in their head that they're
not really talking to people about.
Um, but it's not a new idea that I'm introducing.
It's, it's there.
They've, they've created some kind of, um, or reach some kind of plateau
in the professional lives and there.
They're thinking about a pivot of some sort.
but with that, they're recognizing the cost that they've just paid in
the last season and they're trying to imagine what, what are they gonna
do differently, uh, in this next five years that makes 'em look back proud
with the decisions that they made.
Adam Hatcher: Is there a particular age?
'cause you said they've gotten to a point at the end of a phase.
Is there a particular age when you find.
People start soul searching.
Is it their forties, their fifties, or can it kind of come in at any point?
Shane Arthur: Yeah.
I, I hope we're always dreaming about what's next and how life
could be a little bit better.
I know that when I started this business, I was working with older folks who
were, who were in their fifties, and more and more of them were saying
things like, I've only got one more year left with my daughter at home.
Helped me make the most of it.
And now as my, as my have spread out a little bit more demographically,
I'm, I'm hearing more from people who have small kids at home.
And are obviously very different conversations.
but it, it's, it's noticeable to me that there is typically much more regret in
the life of a business owner, uh, as their kids are transitioning out of the
house, uh, whereas when their children are still small, there is uh, really
just a deep sense of physical tiredness.
Adam Hatcher: So if you're talking to a business owner who's getting to
that second, third, fourth, that final son or daughter getting to the end of
high school and they're starting to deal with looking back and thinking,
oh no, I might have missed something.
How do you help 'em with that?
Shane Arthur: It is just a catalyst.
You know, I love, I love looking
Adam Hatcher: Hmm.
Shane Arthur: but only because of how it, it makes us change our behavior.
Uh, I, I, I'm not interested in people feeling guilt or
shame for their past decisions.
We know those things are not good long-term motivators for
anything, but they do open our eyes.
And so what we wished had been true and, and my job as a coach is to get
a little sense of what they had wished was true then make a very fast pivot
towards, well, what can be true tomorrow?
Adam Hatcher: Think about an owner then who been successful.
They've realized they wanna make a pivot before their next act.
What are some of, what are some decisions you have to help them with
or some things they have to let go?
Shane Arthur: You know, we strategize so much about our businesses
and, and think about what's next.
I love helping people think about how to turn that strategy a little bit towards
Adam Hatcher: I.
Shane Arthur: outside of their business.
was on a call recently with a gentleman who's, who's probably approaching a
pivot, and, and he and I were talking about the summer coming up and kids
being outta school and what that meant.
And this is a guy who's, who's not overworking.
He has, he has good boundaries, but you know, he owns a wildly successful
business and, and so there's a lot of responsibilities there.
He and I just talked about what does it mean during this summer to
create surprise with your children?
What would that look like for you to surprise them with your presence?
In a couple different ways this summer.
Just a way to start him dreaming about how to use that strategic genius that he has,
but instead of towards new clients, back towards these kids that he loves so much.
Adam Hatcher: Think about him or about someone like that.
I'm sure someone's listening to this as, as we get into June, into July,
and Shane, you may have just said that, and they thought, Ooh, I would
love to surprise my kids with my presence, and I don't even know that.
Like what does it even look like to wrestle with that?
What would you tell, what would you tell a person who's dealing
with that feeling right now?
Shane Arthur: I took one of my kids to the dentist the other day, right
in the middle of the school day, and simple, straightforward, pick
up, dentist, drop off, big hug.
It's good to see him during the day.
And as I walked him into school, he said, dad, next time can we
just go to Chick-fil-A together?
And I thought.
Yeah, we, we could do that.
That's a real option for us to do that.
It's just outside of the, the ordinary.
Adam Hatcher: Mm-hmm.
Shane Arthur: so that, that's what I'm thinking about is what
are opportunities that we have.
It's, it's part of the, you know, I appreciated what you said earlier about
the, the three quadrants of your triangle.
One of the things that business owners, uh, there always gonna be
holding onto control a little bit.
Right?
Like it's, it's their thing.
Uh, I, I don't find business owners that aren't interested in
control to some degree, right?
That's why we don't work for other people.
I like how people use that.
I like how people own that.
They have a lot of freedom.
It's one of the reasons why I really enjoy working with business owners is
whenever there's a, there's a word, like, can't I get to pause them and
let them, and let them answer that?
Use a little different word for that.
Because we don't work for other people.
Right.
Like that.
That's just a different reality.
Adam Hatcher: Don't work for other people.
I am all but certain though, you've had to help owners wrestle with something there.
Refusing to let go of in order to get the thing that they, as you help 'em
see what they want to get, that there's something, they're like, what are the,
if you're talking to somebody who's having trouble letting go, what are
some of the things they just, you see executives struggle to let go with?
Shane Arthur: Yeah.
I'm sure our audience have some overlap in values.
nine times out of 10, it is responsibility for people that they care about.
Uh, they have, they have built a world, a business where they are just
responsible for almost every person they interact with during a given day.
And so they might be willing to sacrifice lots of things, uh, for
themselves, but what they're not gonna do is not take care of people.
Uh, and I find that, that, um, we're not paying attention.
We can treat that as a binary thing.
it's not binary, right?
Like there's always limits.
we just, we just like to, we always like to do a little bit more for our employees
or a little bit more for our clients.
Uh, that that bar never is high enough.
And so I like to help folks recognize what's going on there.
Adam Hatcher: So if it's not binary, I.
How do you help them realize that it's more malleable than that?
Yeah.
Shane Arthur: So one of the biggest gifts I have in my life is a 79-year-old
mentor who's got professional success beyond my imagination, and somehow I get
to have lunch with him every other week.
And one of the things he says is that the older and older you get.
The less problems you're solving.
We do more of that when we're younger, when we're building
something, but as we get older, we're managing tensions much more.
Uh, and I think that's the conversation we're having right now.
You, you teed it up really well as you talked about the three
tr edges of your triangle.
Um, this is real life, right?
Like this is business, family health, wealth, church involvement,
philanthropic interests, like.
is tension between how we spend our resources on all of these things.
like to tell people, just look at their allocations, look
at what's getting their time.
Often what's getting their best energy is a better
conversation with business owners.
Um, you know, most of the people I work with and, and I, I think that you work
with, we're not talking about people that are radically overworking, right?
We're talking about people with decent boundaries that
try to make it home for dinner.
Um, but their energy, their creative and strategic energy is almost always going
far more towards their business pursuits.
Uh, even though you and I both know, they don't, they don't value
their business more than they value their kids and their family.
Right.
I.
Adam Hatcher: But their business is getting the majority.
Of their creative time.
That's a, that is a fascinating way to frame that, Shane.
Not just your time, but where are you getting your, your creative time?
Shane Arthur: Yeah, I, I didn't, I didn't realize until I started working
with more and more business owners, but I don't think, I don't think
strategic and creative work is, um, I don't think it's just for business.
I just think that we've, we've been, we've trained our minds to go there.
Um, and the reality is in, in a, in a profit driven world, we usually
can see success there much faster.
So whenever I'm inviting
a wife or a husband to think about, um, how they're engaging with their partner
or how they're engaging with their children, and I realize it's a leap
that I'm asking for, I'm asking them to take a risk somehow with these most
significant relationships in their lives.
I remind them it's gonna take longer.
Than it is when you lead a great meeting, um, and see results very quickly.
sometimes we get impatient.
I think, I think often business owners are impatient and, and I can get results
faster professionally than I can in my own house, uh, almost every day of the week.
Adam Hatcher: How do you help somebody get ready for that?
I mean, if.
If you're listening to the podcast, um, not watching this,
you can't see me cracking up 'cause I've done the same thing.
And Shane, you know, I have, uh, one of my sons has had a medical condition
over the last couple of years that has taken using every bit of the strategic
creativity I used in partnering in a family to scale a company.
It's taken every bit of that focused on just the, that child's needs.
Shane Arthur: Mm-hmm.
Adam Hatcher: It was easier to scale the company.
How do, how do you help people get ready for both?
Letting go of some of their redirecting, some of their strategic
energy and preparing for it not being or seeming as effective?
Shane Arthur: Yeah.
I mean, we're back to talking about regret, right?
Adam Hatcher: Yeah.
Shane Arthur: people like to say on our deathbeds, nobody regrets
their lack of professional success.
They're always talking about their family.
I think that's unhelpful.
Uh, I actually think a lot of people regret, uh, a lot of, uh,
Adam Hatcher: Hmm.
Shane Arthur: They didn't chase a little bit harder, a little bit differently.
Adam Hatcher: Hmm.
Shane Arthur: with the fact that deeper regrets usually do have to do with family.
Uh, I, I think that's true.
Again, I think this is a, this is a tension that we're dealing with
and so I am often asking people to fast forward a little bit.
Um, you know, with most of my clients, I'm talking actively
about the next five years.
I think that is a great unit of time to look at as we think about change.
Um, but, but even then, asking them to look ahead.
Like when, when there are, you know, when there's a, when your
kids are five, seven, and nine and you're in that age and stage age,
you are going to have an empty house, right?
It's going to happen.
And, and that is unfathomable to me, right?
Like our kids are seven and nine.
I hope that is a long time away.
I want more and more time with my kids in our house, it's coming
and can already fast forward.
Imagine that day with a low help.
And think back to this season, what, what will I wish was true,
uh, for me about this summer, right?
Our kids get outta school in two weeks.
will I wish was true about this summer?
When my autopilot is to have more and more powerful conversations with really
interesting people, That's my autopilot.
I think about, okay, let's do that again instead of, yeah,
let's take my son to Chick-fil-A.
Adam Hatcher: When you say that, the image I get, uh, last night I was
looking at my phone and it popped up.
If you've got an iPhone, it likes to feed you memory videos, which are a great way
to sit and cry by yourself, but it was of, it was of my wife and I looked back
at pictures from two years ago, from 2023 of places we had been together.
And realize that none of those were in an office or on a call.
As much as I love this chase of chaos, proofing a family business
and it is important, like you talking with people and helping them not
look back with regret is important.
Practically, I think none of those would've made it in that photo stream.
Um, and what I love to have had two or three more intentional pictures in there.
There was one from a getaway we did.
We went to visit.
Her nephew, our nephew, um, in Scotland, and I love that that was there and
it was really hard to do, but that's one of those five years from now.
I'll be glad when that memory pops back up that we carved out the time and did that.
Shane Arthur: That's right.
That's right.
when you're making those choices, we wanna make sure you're present.
Right.
Uh, 'cause I find that many business owners, once they've achieved a certain
level of success, they actually get really good about booking really nice vacations.
And we end up talking about how do you make sure you're present there?
I.
What in the world are you giving away in the week before you leave to
make sure you don't need your phone?
Adam Hatcher: You told a pretty honest story recently.
I'm curious if I could bait you into telling it here about
what may have been the most.
To set this up, Shane has a fantastic LinkedIn profile.
Uh, we're gonna link it in the show notes, gets a lot of reactions
and maybe your most, if not one of your most successful posts.
I remember you put it up as you went on vacation with your family and it
wasn't that post that was interesting.
Do you mind sharing about the one after it where you looked back with
regret on having been successful?
Because I remember you saying I was on my phone the whole time.
I, I did it as someone on LinkedIn with a social media presence.
You did what people wanna do it, it went viral and it cost you a vacation.
Shane Arthur: Yeah.
Adam Hatcher: Yeah.
Shane Arthur: it was a, it was a great, simple family vacation and, and I'm
a little too prolific on LinkedIn.
Just try to toss something on there every day that encourages folks or ask folks to
ask some deeper questions of themselves.
And just tossed one up.
I think it was probably a repost of one that had done well before, and I put it
up, I don't know, walking to the beach, going out to the car for something.
And when I checked it an hour later, it had exploded.
It's one of my four largest posts ever in the history of LinkedIn.
And I spent the next three days a post go viral.
Trying to respond to comments, right?
Once it starts going, you don't wanna stop it.
And so a little bit of gas on it.
Three days of a vacation that my attention was more on a viral LinkedIn post
instead of my kids sitting there on the beach, like we were
literally building sandcastles.
And I was trying to think about when was the next time I could sneak my
phone off and see what was going on.
Adam Hatcher: And it may sound,
it may sound trivial or silly to someone outside of the coaching world, but.
Uh, getting attention on LinkedIn and keeping your presence out there
is a, is a big part of building your brand and building coaching.
It's similar if you're in a larger company, if you're checking Slack
and teams and email or text messages.
It's the same as LinkedIn.
It's just, it's a different app that pulls you away.
We've got people listening who are coming in.
Shane, lemme ask you this as a, as a final question.
They're coming into the strategic planning part of the year.
You know, I love that.
And,
Shane Arthur: that.
Adam Hatcher: and my hope is, my hope is, uh, in listening through this podcast that
if they've never asked that question, are we growth, control, liquidity, control,
growth, liquidity, which of the, which two of the three are we, uh, particularly
if our customers are in a particular, going in a particular direction, if they.
Clearly pick two and then start to build plans around
that, having set that priority.
You've talked about being in the room.
If you were in the room and asking them, Hey, you're doing that, but
how are you gonna do it in a way that you're not gonna look back in
five years and wish it was different?
Give me, I'm curious when you.
When you're talking to people who are setting these audacious business goals,
'cause those are good, what's one other thing you have them think about
or challenge 'em with or encourage 'em in that you would tell our listeners
as they go in the rest of their year.
Shane Arthur: Yeah, it's actually really simple.
Um,
whenever the big goal is established and it's set, and they talk me
through it, I say very clearly, now, let's assume that it's gonna work.
Let's just assume it's done.
What else needs to be true for you to be happy about hitting it?
We set those big goals and then we worry that we won't hit them.
The reality is we hit them right.
It It might take a little extra time.
It may cost us a little bit more cash, but we usually hit our big
professional goals at some point.
Uh, I like to help people think about what else, else should be true for us to
look back with a big smile on our face.
Adam Hatcher: And if you're in a family owned company, if you're working together,
if you own the business together, answering that question together is scary.
It's powerful, it's vulnerable, but it will build something great.
It's those kind of questions, Shane, that are so foundational, uh, to building
a great company with a strong family.
And I love how you said it before, not losing yourself along the way
and looking back without regret.
Shane, thank you.
Yeah, it is.
Well, Shane, thank you so much.
Um.
I'll just say you are the first guest on the 21 Clear
Podcast, which means two things.
Uh, you are the best and it will only get better from here.
Shane Arthur: Mm-hmm.
A
Adam Hatcher: Thank you so much for being here.
Yeah.
Well, so if you look at the, if you look at the show notes.
Shane's LinkedIn profile is there.
He also recently launched a great website for Arthur Coaching, uh, those
that's in the show notes as well.
How you can help us at 21 Clear is by subscribing or following this podcast
once a month we are gonna have a guest like Shane or some of our own
observations all around how you chaos, proof of family business to build a
great company with a strong family.
I am deeply thankful, uh, to you for listening today.
I hope as you think about success and regret, you take a couple of
things that can help you get better, your family and your company, uh,
and so we will see you next time, as my grandfather would've said.
Thank you so very, very much for listening.