This is the EWN Podcast Network. Most of us will never see the intricate web of groundwork that goes into the building of a house before the drywall is applied. Today on From Disaster to Dream Home, we will outline the primary components that must be in place before it's too late.

Welcome to From Disaster to Dream Home, the podcast that takes you inside the home building and rebuilding process. When interior designer Jana Rosenblatt had an 80 foot tree fall in her house, she saw the opportunity to create the customized home of her dreams. From Disaster to Dream Home provides you with the information and resources Jana wished she had during her rebuilding process. Now she's sharing with you the expertise of leading architects and home builders and the newest products and materials on the market. Here's your host, Jana Rosenblatt.

Welcome back home builders and remodelers to another episode of from disaster to dream home. The podcast that will take you through the process of building or rebuilding a new home from the ground up in 52 episodes. If you are rebuilding after the loss of your home or building a new home from the ground up, Each episode of From Disaster to Dream Home will help you know what you and your design team will need to do to make the construction process fluid so your dream home can rise from the ashes. Our builder, Don McMaster of McMaster and Hill Construction, is with us again today as we continue the process of building our new home. We have built a strong foundation, and we have framed the walls.

While one team is working on the exterior infrastructures, including the walls, roof, and installing the windows, on the inside, the rough plumbing, a labyrinth of electrical wiring, and the fire sprinkler systems are being installed. While the structure is still easily accessible, we must set in the heat and air conditioning. And before the walls get closed, we will want to consider the modern luxuries of the security system, the audio visual wiring, and any smart home control features that we will need to be hardwired into the framing. Once these important things are in place, the last major piece of the puzzle is the insulation before the drywall seals the deal. Welcome back, Don.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you. Good to be back.

We spoke about the process of closing up the house on the outside with the exterior wall surfaces, doors, windows, and roof. Today, let's return our focus to the interior infrastructure of everything that must be done inside the house prior to the ceiling of the walls with the drywall. First, can we get an idea of the timeline? Don, how long will it take to get the infrastructure to the point where the drywall is installed so that you can continue with the interior build out?

You know, I think that depends on the size of your house, how long, you know, basically, would take. If you're looking at a 1,500 square foot house, you might say it could take, you know, five to eight days. But if you multiply that, you got a 3,000 or a 45, you know, hundred square foot house. It could take, you know, upwards to four weeks for each one of the trades to finish. And, typically, you would start with your plumbers getting their main lines up through the walls and through the roof.

Mhmm. And then you would go to your heat and air air conditioning guys who would run their ducts, you know, wherever they need to do them. Because the ducts are flexible. The ABS pipes for your plumbers are not. So you try to get them to work together and make a job walk, make sure everybody knows, you know, where everybody's gonna be so we don't get into each other's way.

Mhmm. And sometimes the plumbers and the heat and air guys can work together at the same time, which helps. And then after that, you bring in, you know, the guys with the, you you know, the wires to do all the other kind of stuff. Yeah. The timeline is, like like we previously mentioned, would be how big your property is.

And for the electricians, once the plumbing and heat and air is in, We typically have them run their little boxes where you're gonna have your switches, your recessed lights, or any other lights you're gonna have. And then we have the homeowner come through with the electrician and make sure all the switches and boxes are exactly where they want them before we start running wire. And then once you start running wire, like we say, depending on the size of the house, you know, a thousand square foot house, whatever would be, you know, let's say it's a week, and then you kinda do the multiplication. Mhmm. Houses get bigger and more elaborate depending on how elaborate the house is.

Mhmm. And do you try to kind of give yourself an idea of what you think the schedule might be ahead of time depending on the scale of the house so you kind of know how to line guy the guys up so they're not in each other's way?

Yeah. So we also talk to all the subs and say, look. Here's here's the job. How many days do you think this is gonna take you?

Uh-huh.

So that everybody knows at that point, okay. Let's let's say Joe's gonna be in there doing plumbing for two weeks, and then the heat and air guy how long they're gonna do. And then we tell the electrician, be ready to come in in two weeks or three weeks, then you can start. So we have it kind of all laid out when what time and everybody's expected to be on the job.

Okay. So the plumbers are in first. I always I I I never see it go any other way. And then, I guess, the heat and air conditioning guys, sounds like, are the next ones you're gonna bring in and hold off a little on the electrical. So when do you does it seem like you're ready for the HVAC system?

How do you know, you know, when things are far enough along?

So usually, like, say, the plumbers, we do like them to be first. They don't necessarily have to be, but we do need to have a meeting with both of those trades to make sure they're not gonna get in each other's way. The HVAC and plumber yes. The plumber, we don't want the cup you know, be having to run a pipe right to the middle of, you know, where we're gonna put the unit.

Right. And

so we decide where everybody's gonna be at the very beginning, and then we'd let them go from there.

So is the HVAC system fully, you know, called out in the extras in the architect's plans, or is it sort of designed during the build?

So the architect would have to do a heat calc, and that's something that the city requires. Basically, that tells you how big the unit's gonna be, how many BTUs it's gonna take, you know, the size of the units, and they would spec that out. Now some of the architects will actually do a drawing Uh-huh. For where the ducts are going to be

Uh-huh.

Where the unit's gonna be. A lot of the smaller jobs, they don't. You just have the contractor kinda lays that out with the general contractor as to where we're gonna be putting the ductwork and how that's gonna all all phase out.

Yeah. So both rules, you know, apply where sometimes you just wait until the framing is there enough to be able to see it to decide decide where to go. And maybe on a bigger, more complex house, maybe with a second floor or something, it's gonna be more called out by the architect?

So sometimes it is. Sometimes it's not. So a lot of times we have where they're not. But when you first get the plan and you start building it, you have to know where these things are gonna be run. And you can do that with the HVAC guy long before he gets there.

You may may have to run soffits. We might have to have certain places in the framing Uh-huh. Where we have to cut holes previously so we know we can get ducts through there. And so that that all is discussed with the framer so we're all in a good position when we come. So we're not going back and cutting out lumber to run ductwork.

Yes. So even if it is called out by the architect, what happens in the field is you gotta be flexible.

Yes. You always have to be flexible. And that is that a that might be a duck joke right there, is it?

Possibly. So are there options in the selection of, HVAC units and systems on the market? I mean, are there different kinds of approaches to this, or is it pretty much kinda, you know, one kinda way you do this?

So recently, with some of the laws that might be changing with the with gas fired units Uh-huh. Virtually before, everybody had a gas furnace.

Right.

And there weren't too many electric ones. Now they're trying to get rid of the gas units just like they are with the ranges and some of the appliances. So Uh-huh. A lot of them are now gonna be heat pumps, which are electrical. So those are coming on the market, not only heat pumps for the HVAC systems, but also for water heating.

A lot of those are gonna be, the heat pumps, and they're gonna be using electricity.

And can electrical heated water systems, are those can those be, you know, either the a big tank, or can they also be the tankless solutions?

So the tankless units that we're used to seeing right now are all gas.

Yeah.

They do make some electrical, and now they're starting to make more of the tankless electrical. What we're hearing is they don't work as well. But also the electrical water tanks are also just regular tanks. They look like your regular gas water.

Uh-huh. Yeah. So they're

They look the same. Take up the same spot space. Uh-huh. And that and that technology has been around for a long time. Yes.

Electric electric water heaters.

Oh, I see. But it it's just not I I never see them. I mean, so when would you until now, when it's gonna become, you know, something that, everyone's gonna have to do in time, why would one have chosen electrical over gas?

So some areas, and tracks of houses depending on where they're built don't have gas. The gas isn't isn't even available to them. Uh-huh. But a lot of the, codes from state and maybe even the cities are changing and requiring you to have electric.

Uh-huh.

So you just have to check up on your codes, your local codes, state codes

Yeah.

To see what they're gonna require you to do. So it seems like they change this stuff every year. Yeah. They really have to pay attention to what the new code is Uh-huh. Because they are always coming up with new things.

Yeah. Hopefully, better and better things. So are there, you know, price driven driven factors to consider in choosing, you know, the direction of of your HVAC units? You know, what are the things that are on the market and available to us?

Yes. There is. So I'm doing a house right now. It's a small house. This house is, like, 2,000 square feet.

It's basically a remodel that we're gotten to the floor down to the studs.

Nice.

So they do have the standard one that meets the heat calcs Uh-huh. That the has been figured out and accepted by the city. So that would be like the baseline. But you can always get a better one. So if I if someone were to say, here's here's what the base is, there's always extra and better that you could get.

There may be two other units that are, you know, higher graded. So you can always do better on, you know, what what you might wanna have for your own for your own unit. Mhmm.

And are those better in terms of, you know, efficiency or, you know, what makes it worth investing more versus, you know, going with the standard?

So I would say probably, you know, reliability, and there's also brand recognition. You can also look at consumer guides, and they'll tell you what kind of unit you're looking for, the reliability, you know, what the feedback is. You know, like, they'll say we tested so many of these units. Uh-huh. And they'll say this is a basic unit.

It'll it'll meet it'll meet that, you know, basic requirement. The other one is an upgrade. Maybe they're using better parts inside it.

Mhmm. Maybe they'll be more long lasting. Or

Yeah. They'll be more, you

know, long lasting. Better warranties?

Yes. It might have better warranties than those two.

Yeah. That would be that always is useful. So when we're looking at the HVAC system and the installation of the parts, what is it we're looking at in terms of the different components that are gonna be installed into the house?

Well, the main one would be inside the house is your furnace.

Uh-huh.

And so that's heating up your air. And then outside, you would have your condenser, and that's, you know, the little box that you see every once in a while laying outside someone's house. And that's the same thing like you would have in your car, your air conditioner. Uh-huh. And so those are typically and, well, almost always I can't remember thinking of any of them.

They're located someplace different. They're either out in the yard. They might be up on a roof somewhere depending on what kind of roof you have. So those those are the main two parts to it. You know?

Your heat in your air, you're cold, and you're hot.

Okay. And so then and then they're controlled by the thermostat. So I I gotta ask about the placement of the thermostat and more about that. I often feel like they're directly placed where I wish I could put a major piece of entry hall art or a a mirror. What are the key factors to consider in placing the thermostat?

Right. So what you probably don't wanna do is place it somewhere where they you know, the sun might hit it.

Uh-huh.

So a lot of times you do see them in the hallways. You're trying to get in a central area, so maybe in the middle of the house. So it's if you just have one and you're trying to control that area, you you don't wanna put it in a place that's either too cold or, like you say, it's gonna be in the sun that's gonna, you know, trigger the thing to be, you know, give you a different measure. Accurate. Right.

Yeah. And so then and if you're gonna if you need more than one, what's the criteria? Is that two floors, or is it just a certain amount of square footage away, or simply convenience?

If you have more than one, you you might have a split system. So a split system would be in the ductwork, They'll put, like, a damper that lets air in and out. Let's say you have a room that was far away. You might say, I I want to get air to this back room, but we're never back there. So you might have a thermostat that controls that and lets the air into that room.

That would be the only reason you would have, you know, two as if you have a split system with you know, could even, you know, do three or four sections off of one unit. But typically, if you see two, somebody has it's in a two story or a large house

Uh-huh.

They would have the upstairs unit on the thermostat. Upstairs would be running the upstairs one. The downstairs unit would do the area downstairs. And and then the other part would be if you're in a big house where you have one unit, you might have an area that's the sleeping quarters at one end of the house, and the other end might be the kitchen, living room, family room. And you're like, well, I'm not even over there all night.

Why am I am I heating that? Or why am I running the air conditioner there? So you might wanna have a split system on those.

Right. So you can kind of zone your house.

Yes. Mhmm.

But then are there any, specific safety and energy efficient aspects that we need to consider with HVAC? And I'm sure, you know, the laws are more concise here in California than, you know, than anywhere.

Well, almost all of the units have what they call a SEER rating.

Uh-huh.

SEER rating tells you the efficiency of the unit, you know, how well it's put together. So that's also a code part that let's say you're getting a permit. You should have that on your calcs. It'll tell you what the SEER rating is. And that also goes for price.

You have the basic. But if you want, you know, the better units, usually highly rated for the SEER.

Uh-huh.

And so that would cost you more money for something like that.

And, are the California, you know, restrictions I mean, I wonder if the, if electric is also safer in that regard because there's not an ongoing flame, you know, constantly there that could, you know, get larger and ignite something. Is that part of the the push toward electric, or is it mostly, you know, the air and ozone layer?

It's it's mainly the fossil fuel. They're trying to eliminate fossil fuel. Most of the units now, they don't have an open flame on them anymore. Uh-huh. Even even on the water heaters, they have an igniter.

Right.

So when it's called for, then it would start up. So you don't have too much open flame on anything new. And that yeah. They don't have that anymore.

Yeah. The HVAC control is a good segue into the amount of smart home wiring people are installing these days. Another thing that if you're gonna use some hard wiring, it's gotta happen, you know, before the drywall goes on. Are your homeowners controlling their homes remotely from their iPhones?

You know, I think everybody likes that idea. But not actually doesn't really you know, they really don't wanna do that. They like to actually have, you know, touch something.

Yeah.

But a lot of people do have it on your phone. And a lot of these thermostats do have an app. Uh-huh. I'd say virtually everyone now has an app on it that you can hook it up to your phone. So you could sit in your bedroom and, you know, turn up your turn up the heat or turn it down.

Mhmm. You know, a lot of people have the Nest and, you know, different whatever the brand is.

Right.

They make there's an app for that. I think that's yeah. There's an app for that.

There's an app for most things. That's true.

There's an app for everything, and you can control those things from your app. And I guess you can control them, you know, even if you're on vacation.

Yeah. It's true. I mean yeah. If you got, you know, you got a pet in the house or you have a you you you're coming home from a wonderful, summer vacation summer vacation in a wintery place and you wanna have the house warm when you get there, that kind of thing. Yeah.

So in context of of new build, what are some of the other kind of smart home technologies that are being integrated before the drywall installation?

So one of the other things we didn't mention yet, and I think you might have mentioned earlier, would be a sprinkler system.

Oh, yeah. Mhmm.

So you probably have to have depending on, you know, of course, in California, you may be required to be putting sprinklers into your house Yeah. For fire suppressant. So those would need to be put in. And then the other things are all the amazing things they make for TV sets

Yeah.

Computers Yeah. Wi Fi, wireless. Let's say you wanna have speakers, you could do that. Drapes. I just did a house where we had so many wires for drapes Yeah.

Sticking out, you know, with the wall Yeah. For an electronic drape, all that stuff had to be in

Yeah. If you're gonna use in place. Yeah. For your window treatments, I think I have a question coming up about that too, but I'm glad that you're you're seeing it more. And and when did that come up, in the conversation to, make the window treatments remote control?

Was that part of the plan when the architect finished the drawings, or was that something that came up as you were building?

The owner originally requested it. Uh-huh. For this particular house, they do not live in California. They live in another state, and they wanted to be open you know, have the app to open and shut the drapes at their house. Remotely?

Yes.

I mean, like, from another place? I can't I've I hadn't thought about that being a a reason, but I guess if you wanna look like someone's living there, that's a good way to do it.

Yeah. So this house has probably 10 to 11 cameras.

Uh-huh.

Cameras on the outside so they can look at their whole house all the way around it. Yeah. Like, say, because they don't live here. Yeah. And then also there's cameras inside the house.

Uh-huh. And then also if they, you know, if they want to open the drape, you can do that from your your iPhone no matter what state you're in. You can open that up. And so that helps, you know, facilitate all sorts of things. And also the things that they would do would be, you know, let's say, you know, someone's gonna come work on your house.

They can open up the front doors. Right. They can open up your garage.

And they can see what you're doing.

Yes. And then they also can open the gate. So this particular house does have a gate. And so you wanna open up the gate, let people in to work on the house, and then you could see them and talk to them. So it's it's an amazing way.

You can do almost anything with these sis but they would all have to be in before you start drywalling. Yes.

Yeah. And so there are, you know, wired and wireless options. And are there specific applications where wired is a much better idea than the wireless?

You know, they're getting better at all the stuff. I we still are a little old fashioned. I still like to run some wired if if we can to let's say we know this house another house we're doing right now. I discussed with the owners this morning. I said, okay.

You you have two offices and you have three places where you're gonna have TVs. So let's just run a wire to each one of those spots.

Uh-huh.

They also will have the Wi Fi. So let's say you're on your phone or your iPad walking around the house. And so they'll also have the Wi Fi set up too. So not only hardwired computers and TVs, but a lot of the TVs are now also Wi Fi.

Yeah.

So but since we do already have the walls open, it's fairly simple to run those wires to those areas where they previously know, hey. At this point, this is where it's gonna be sitting. So Uh-huh. It's a better connection.

I imagine that early on in your career, you know, you kinda got to know the nuts and bolts of of building a house and and, you know, you knew where to put the nails and the two by fours and how to run, you know, the wires and the plumbing and things. When did you have to like, how do you keep up with the technological changes and the evolutions of what people might want?

Well, we we hear everybody's looking on the Internet and seeing what somebody else has. So Yeah. A lot of that just comes from the it's customer driven. Hey. I want I've seen this and I want that.

Uh-huh.

And then you you know, we have some subcontractors that this is what they specialize in. Right. So they're doing it every day so they can say, hey. You know what? This is what we got.

This is what's you know, something new coming out. We can do that. So, yeah, it's it's kinda word-of-mouth, but also you're just looking and seeing what other people have Uh-huh. And what can be done because that changes constantly.

Yeah. I'm you really have to, you know, be interested in in kinda learning new things a lot of the time.

Yes.

And and what are the key elements that people are currently including in their home security systems?

Well, besides the, you know, the cameras around around the house, a lot of the stuff is hooked up to doors and windows that would open

Uh-huh.

And close so you know if a door is opening or closing.

Right.

And those could be done by wire, but they can also be done with a Wi Fi system. Uh-huh. So there's different applications for those kind of things. I do remember a long time ago, and they would put a pad underneath the carpet. I don't know if you remember this.

Yeah.

They put pads under the carpet. So if the burglar walked across your down the hallway across the pad, that would set off the alarm.

Yep.

So they don't actually do that anymore.

Much anymore. Yeah.

Yeah. But that was, you know, one of the beginning things that they came up with. So, yes, they came up with all sorts of things now.

And and who brings in the home security team? You know, when does that become part of when in the design process or the build process does that become part of the conversation?

Usually, right up front, if we know, you you ask people what what what would you like for

Uh-huh.

You know, low voltage stuff, and they'll tell you, here's what I'm thinking about. So you bring those guys in right off the batch, give them a set of plans, and start working on that.

Okay. Okay. And is that, do you usually bring in a team that you know, like, with other trades, or is that something that frequently the client brings?

So, typically, we have our own guy that does that

Mhmm.

That we work with. Sometimes the homeowners have had someone that's done their you know, last two houses we did, this wasn't their first time.

Yeah.

And so they had had someone previously wire another house, and they said, you know, we love Joe. He's fantastic. We wanna use him. And so we work with whoever, you know, they feel comfortable with.

Mhmm. But you do consider as part of your infrastructure team?

Right. Because I have to oversee all that because before we can start to insulate, that all has to be done. So we gotta work with with everybody, tie everybody together.

Mhmm. And how can homeowners be sure that they'll have the potential in the wiring infrastructure for future technological upgrades? I mean, is there a rule of thumb for that?

You know, I I think right now, we're we're actually, getting away from the wires. It's all going with the, Wi Fi stuff. So

Yeah. Wires.

Think any of the new, innovations won't be tied to wire. We'll probably be going away from that. We do run some conduit in a house from, let's say, maybe your electric panel in your garage to an attic area Uh-huh. Where we could have some futures. But, generally, I think we're going away from running wires.

Almost everything now can could be a wireless type stuff.

Yeah. And is it is it so reliable? Like, we

I don't think it's as reliable as, you know, running a wire.

Right.

But, obviously, they're getting it's getting better. So let's say you go to a house that doesn't have wires, run, you can pretty much do almost everything that you, you know, wanna do. Get a comp

mean, certainly, if it was a, you know, renovation of an older home, the more wireless you can do, the better because you don't wanna have to break open walls for, you know, low voltage wires.

Correct.

Yeah. So now in almost every room in the house, you touched on this a minute ago, is like a media room. What is the process of the prewiring the home for the auto audio visual needs?

So mainly, would just be finding out what the homeowner wants to put in there, you know, for whether it's a TV, a computer. And so we would base that the basic part is just putting in an electrical. An electrical plug, plug something in, a TV or a some kind of monitor. And what they would either call a CAT six, CAT five wires that they would run back to a central location that would control all the wires that were in the house. And that could be that's typically a separate box, and that separate box is run by the audio company.

They're running all that stuff to a separate box and then connecting it all from there.

And there must be no, you know, planning ahead for this that team. I mean, the audio team comes in, and and they're just dealing with what they find on-site in terms of

find out what they have on-site, but a lot of these that we've stripped down to the let's say we strip them down, either a new home or one that we've completely redone.

Yeah.

Yeah. You're you're free to start from, you know, wherever because you're yep. It's open.

Let those guys in the you know, the they're like spiders. When do you when do you unleash these guys into the, into the house?

Well, usually right at the last week with the electricians.

Yeah.

So that they're not stepping on each other.

Yeah. Yeah.

But they also have to work together on how the plugs are gonna look. Sometimes sometimes those plugs you know, they also have switches and stuff with the electrician that turn on lights that have different colors. You might have all sorts of, you know, things going on, and they might wanna use one switch at the so they gotta you gotta tie those two guys together, make sure they're both on the same page as to what the audio guy's trying to do.

Right. And so, you know, that brings me to the question I've had for years, which is why don't electricians also do the low voltage wiring? Why isn't that one person?

You know what? I cannot answer that for you because I think the same thing. I know. Like, this seems very simple

I know.

For some of the standard stuff. And I'll I'll say to my electricians, oh, they go, no. No. We don't do that. So I have no idea what happened out there in the never in the world.

Yeah. It used it used to be the electricians would do that. So that I'm talking thirty years ago. Would Your electricians would run your telephone wires, your cable, and somewhere along the line, they got out of it for whatever reason, and I don't know.

Yeah. And they're

You're you're absolutely right. It doesn't seem to make sense to me. But

Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, they're kind of they're both self righteous about it. It's not like like you forgot one thing and the electrician's standing there, he is just not gonna run that, you know, that CAD six.

Yes. Yeah. I you are right. I don't know that.

Yeah.

It's true. Yeah. I don't know what it is.

Always wonder about that. So are you finding that your clients are integrating their sound and visual features into their, you know, smart home systems that they're adding the entertainment factors into, you know, into the ability to, you know, run them remotely?

I I wouldn't know that it would be a %. I mean, there are certain people that really are into it, and then other people are like, no. That's gonna make my life too complicated. It's already too complicated. I don't you know?

I I just wanna switch on the wall to work. I wanna turn my TV on. I wanna do so it just depends on who you are. I don't I don't think that we're seeing a whole lot more of it.

Yeah. Interesting. I wonder I wonder if that will, you know, grow with the the wireless technology if it makes it easier.

Yeah. I think as you get more of these, you know, more of these apps and also as the younger people who are used to using their phones are growing up to that point where they're, you know, building their houses, let's say Uh-huh. They're used to doing everything on their phone.

Yeah. Right. Right. Their thumbs their thumbs have developed more flexibility.

Yes. Like, right now, my daughter selection. Yeah. Yeah. My daughter runs everything off her phone, and she wants to.

Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. So, you know, we talk you touched, before on one of my favorite things to consider, which is automated window treatments. And especially these days because our windows are, you know, nine to 14 foot tall in in these, you know, rooms that are, getting taller and taller.

And if you can't reach a window treatment, you can't really control it. So going remote control is a kind of great thing. So my question is, at what point do we need to make that decision before it's too late? Like, when would it be best to know that we wanna automate our window treatments?

Probably right after you start framing. You probably need to know this because we also when we have the electricians in here, the guy and this is a separate guy from the audio guy.

Yeah. Who is this guy? Right?

He's another guy. We're not sure who that guy is.

Yeah. I know that guy. I I usually recommend that guy or hire that guy. So he's a window treatment guy, and he also he stays in his lane. He doesn't wanna, you know, he doesn't wanna run into anyone else's lane.

Right. And so you have to have him there, and they have to that wire has to be depending on which kind of motor that he's using Mhmm. Then and and where it is, he's gonna tell us exactly where that wire he'll put that wire in for us

Yeah.

So that we don't bury it with the insulation and the drywall. But yeah. And so when he comes back in on that day when he's gonna bring his stuff, he's gotta have that wire hanging down. He's gotta have the power. Yeah.

So that is also something that runs back to one of these audio boxes that we have, and those are also things that are typically run off your phone.

Right. So I know that we can't make many changes to where appliances and fixtures are placed after the drywall goes in. But is there anything else that has to happen in the walls before the insulation is stuffed into every nook and cranny? What what else and you you brought up the sprinkler system. And, you know, what else do we need to consider?

Well, that's a hard one. I don't know. You know, we're talking about stereos and all your audio stuff, and that would probably be, I think, you know, let's say 99%. I'm I'm sure there's something out there.

Yeah.

That someone might think they gotta, you know, get in there. But that that's gonna take care of 99 of the issues that you would, you know, typically come up with.

And now and that brings up one other thought, which is that, you know, you've created a pre budget for, you know, considering almost everything. But you you don't pre budget the considerations for the audio visual or things like window treatments or things like that. So those are all kind of have to be fixed, you know, fixed you know, looked at in the process and added to whatever is already being spent. Is that true?

If if we know we usually try to ask people before we start

Yeah.

Working on the house, what kind of, you know, systems might they want? Because we can also at least be able to give them a ballpark. Because a lot of people can't decide. They almost need to have the place framed.

Yeah. I know.

And looking at it, they can't look at the the set of plans.

Right. Right.

But you can ask the question, how many TVs you're gonna put in here?

Right.

Do you wanna have you can ask them all those questions so that you can say, look. Based on what you just told us, you have three bedrooms, you know, two baths, or you have 10 bedrooms. Okay. You want one in every one. You can give them some kind of budget to work with and say, you know, here's here's where you're at.

Ball here's a ballpark Mhmm. You know, you know, in what you want, you know, you wanna do.

Of course. You know, from my vantage point, certainly, if you have an interior designer on the project while the plans are being finished, they're going to bring up all those questions about the window treatments and things like that. And, you know, I'm gonna go get research to show them, you know, what it could be like if they did this or that so that they know whether they wanna keep that, you know, as one of the priorities to

Correct.

Within the budget. Alright. So it seems like we've considered all the things that we need to do, and it is time for the insulation. Until the insulation goes in, the house is still an open cavity like Swiss cheese. And you can, you know, still see through the walls and you can still walk through the walls freely.

It's the insulation phase that transforms the open structure into a house with public and private spaces. Not exactly a finished house as the walls are not yet solid, but, what will we experience what we will experience in the next few weeks is like a dreamlike fluffy space with padded walls. It is, however, the first chance that we get to feel the real size and scope of each room. What is the transition from the framed space to the insulated space feel like for you?

I I would say the biggest thing that I would say for our customers is, like you said, is they can't see through the whole thing now. Right? So let's say a lot of places, they only would do the outside. So they'll do outside walls and they'll do ceilings, and your inside walls are still open.

Uh-huh.

So the other option is do you wanna insulate all your interior walls? Because that's not mandated by the codes. So that's something you can decide for yourself. What is mandated is exterior walls for heat and air, ceilings for heat and air, but the inside walls are not. And so then yeah.

So then that becomes a personal preference. So some people say, hey. You know what? I just wanna insulate around my bathroom. Does that make sense?

Yes. We'll just insulate around your bathroom. Or how about will you just insulate around, yep, the washer and dryer, you know, laundry room? And because that's where the noise is gonna come from. So it's not only acting as insulation not for heat, but that is the insulation's being used as a sound barrier.

Yeah. I was gonna get I'm gonna get to that a little bit more too. But so as you're so it's interesting because the two houses that we worked on after the Woolsey fires, both of them were insulated completely throughout, and I thought that was the new normal. And it might be the new normal, but I didn't realize it wasn't it wasn't code.

Right. Those are not anything that where you could lose, you know, basically outside air.

Right.

That has to be insulated. So those are let's say your garage walls.

Yeah.

And anything that could be the other side of that wall is outside. So that would be your ceilings, exterior walls. Anything on the inside is not mandated for, you know, insulation. That's interesting. People over the years have said, hey.

You know what? Even between floors and a ceiling, let's say you have a two story and you have a, you know, a floor, this you're going from one heated space to another heated space above it, so you do not have to have insulation between floors. But people do it because it's gonna hold down the noise. You're gonna hold down some of the noise. Yeah.

And and so in between the walls. So once we have the insulation in and all the walls on the interior of a house, then you it almost the silence of it all is always the most interesting thing to me

is Yeah. It sure is.

It seems quiet in here. Yeah. Know? It's kinda great. The noise is not, you know, ricocheting off.

Yeah. Yeah. And, actually, it's quieter than when the drywall goes on in in some ways because then there's a harder surface for noise bouncing.

Yeah. And then today, we also we're looking at a house where the man is a musician.

Uh-huh.

So he wants extra insulation and a different type of insulation that he you know, that you can have around his walls. And then his wife is gonna be working from home from home. So she has her home office, so she wants extra insulation around her office. So those are the place looking for, you know, maybe more insulation as opposed to less.

I see. So so you're not just thinking of it as a temperature control. People are utilizing it, the insulation, and we'll talk about some other aspects of, sound buffering in a minute. But they are using the insulation, and the density of it, for sound insulation. And so what are the different kinds of, what are the options?

And are there some that are more, you know, fire resistant than others? Or, you know, what are the different kinds of things that we can use in different places?

As far as getting if we're talking just for sound, there's there's heavier you know, there's denser insulation that you can use. And there's also the way you could build it. So there is, like, drywall that is special sound

Yeah.

Barrier insulation. Uh-huh. And there's regular sound boards. Mhmm. Let's say you could nail that sound board up.

You know, it looks like a regular sheet of drywall, basically. And then you put your drywall over it. Another way might be, which we'll probably do in this other house, is we'll put these little metal strips on all the walls, and then we'll put the insulate then we're going to put the drywall on those strips, and that stops the drywall from being nailed directly to a stud where vibrations might go through. So there's a whole list of things that you can do to try to isolate one room. Mhmm.

And, you know, around here, we have a lot of people, you know, doing recordings and stuff like that in a room. And so they might have dual pane glass. They might have another layer of glass on the inside. They might even have double walls. My neighbor next door is a sound engineer.

He's making sound. He's got double walls and double glass. Uh-huh. Yeah. Around his room.

So there's all sorts of things you can get really carried away with that.

Yeah. Now so I use a lot of sound insulating drywall in commercial spaces. I've done a lot of recording studios and things like that. And I know it's a lot more expensive a material than, you know, plain old drywall. So, when does this conversation come up about, I mean, obviously, with the musician and things, you're gonna talk about it early and they're gonna make their priorities.

But if you know, like, that there's a theater room or, you know, a media space or something like that, when do you kinda bring up all those things? Is it in the budgeting stage, or is it really when the walls are all in and you're realizing that you want some more insulation and sound barrier?

Yes. So if we have a set of plans and they've clearly made it you know, we all we all know what the room's gonna be used for, we might ask the architect, hey. Why don't you give us a detail as to how do you wanna finish all these walls? Because it can be very expensive. So you don't wanna be stuck at the end going, oh, I didn't know, you know, you were gonna do this.

Although a lot of people at the end of it do say, hey. Oh, by the way, I think, you know, I'm gonna use this for office now. I've been thinking about it, I never told you. And then you're like, okay. Here's what we gotta do now.

But, yeah, otherwise, it would be priced out at the beginning. You'd wanna know what the detail is and what the architect would like to do Mhmm. To achieve that.

Okay. So so if you are in a meeting with the architect and the homeowners and you see it's not called called out, but you see the rooms being set apart for these things, you'll bring that up because

Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Because it just happens all the time.

Yeah. And, I mean, the reason we do this show is that so that people will know to ask for it. I mean, you don't know what you don't know. And Right. You kinda know what you wanna get done.

Right.

As you're approaching the the point that all of the insulation is in and you're getting ready to, you know, start putting up that drywall, I'm thinking, shoot. It's too late now. I hope I didn't screw anything up because we're not making any changes. What are you thinking? Is that like a nervous, you know, place for you to go from open walls to closed walls?

No. I never get nervous.

Love about you.

So here's here's what we here's what we try to do. Uh-huh. And I I'm gonna say almost every time we're we're very successful at this. So before we let anybody insulate, we take pictures of everything. We go through, and then we also make a video.

Videos are usually better than the pictures Uh-huh. Because you can back up a video and say, oh, I missed that word. In a picture, you might have missed something. But the video so we like to walk in the front door and just go through the whole house real slowly. If it takes like a five minute video Yep.

Videotaping everything where all the wires are, where all the plugs are, you know, how the where the framing is just in case something gets covered and you don't know and everyone goes, how come the how come the electrical doesn't work? And you find out, oh, the insulation in the drywall guy went right over the plug. Right. And now nothing works. Right?

And you have to go find that. But Fine. I'm not I'm gonna tell you how many times we were saved

Yeah.

By the fact that we went back to the video and we said, hey. Oh, okay. We could we could either move something over. We we have the choice. Or if we're looking for plumbing Uh-huh.

You know, we're looking for mainly, we're looking for wires. That's the easiest thing that could get buried in the insulation would be, you know, a wire or a wire box. So yes. So once we got that, then we give them the okay to to go ahead and insulate. We're good.

Uh-huh. And and does that feel like you've really accomplished something by the time you get you get to that point?

Oh, yeah. Once we once we get there, you're you're to me, I'm like, okay. I'm home free. All the framing's done. I can put that on.

Now now it's, you know, put you know, they're just putting the finishing touches on it really. Even though that's still a lot more stuff to do, to me, the real hard stuff is is done. What what you have then is what you got to work with.

Exactly. So once the drywall is installed, once once the insulation is installed, you start to put in the drywall. About how long does it take to, you know, make that to to get the entire house covered? And is there a system to it or just sticking it all up?

Yeah. Yeah. There's no system. Yeah. So the system the system would be, you know, let's say the drywall crew comes in.

Usually, they'll start with the ceilings, and then they'll go to the wall. So the ceilings typically go up first with the drywall. Uh-huh. And then you and then and then the walls. And then at that point, once all that stuff is up, like I said, it depends on how big your house is, how long that might take.

A week, maybe two weeks. But that would be max just to nail it. We call nailing it, although nobody nails it anymore. It's all put on with screws. So then, typically, you have to have the city come out and take a look at it.

Uh-huh. And they're gonna wanna make sure that you screwed it all correctly.

Uh-huh.

That's all up. And backing up just a second, they would also do that for your insulation.

Oh, uh-huh.

Some cities

that. Yeah.

Yeah. They would inspect your insulation, make all the insulation is, you know, in according to code.

Uh-huh.

So you'd get an inspection there, and then you then you go on to the drywall. And then they would come and and look at your drywall. That's a typical inspection from almost every city. They would come out, look at it. Okay.

It's good. And then you could start taping and, you know, mudding your dry getting it getting it ready for paint.

Okay. So once the drywall is installed, any changes like moving a sconce three inches to the left will be expensive, annoying, and simply unwise, and you probably won't do it for me. But for me, and I suspect the client, it's the very first time that we can really see and feel the rooms as they will now be for the rest of the life of the home. I've spent the past months with the client during the bill doing a great deal of planning and visualizing to be sure that there'll be no major surprises for the homeowner. And my job by this point in the process is to have guided the homeowner through the process of making all of the material, fixture, and appliance selections that will be required as you're as you're ready for them in the weeks to in the weeks ahead.

How can you tell when our new house is ready for the drywall installation? What what is it that you need? Is it the inspection? You know, the final stage of the inspection that means you're ready to go move forward?

Yes. Once we have the inspection because usually once, you know, the inspection is of the insulation.

Uh-huh. So

once once you have that done, you pretty much have gone over the house a couple times before we let the insulation make sure everybody's, you know, got everything where it needs to be. And, of course, like you said, it's not gonna be perfect. You are gonna and that's why we videotape it so that we know, okay. This plug is off, you know, with an appliance or a cabinet. It it needs to move to the right or left one inch or two inches or and let's go back to the videotape and find out how hard is that gonna be.

Is it just cutting some drywall and moving

Right.

What what could be in the way? Is there a pipe there and it can't go there? So

So you're probably willing to make small adjustments if needed if it was because of something you guys did. But if the designer did it, it's a negotiation.

Yeah. Probably. Alright.

I love you anyway. So now now we are covering the house with drywall, but when is it in the process that we'll talk about the drywall finishes? There are all kinds of choices to be made with the drywall process about the corners being straight and sharp or rounded or and the the smooth surface or textured finishes. When does that conversation happen?

So that happens for us in our pricing out the job and bidding it because it makes a big difference whether let's say you're gonna use, you know, bullnose corners or square corners. Are you using you know, what's what's the detail around the doors? What's the detail around the windows? You know, what are what are you gonna put there? Do we need to drywall the window openings, or is that gonna be wood so we wouldn't bother to do that?

Are you gonna have a smooth drywall finish, or are you putting, you know, an orange peel, light orange peel, heavy orange peel, or what kind of finish you're gonna put on that? Because that will tell us what how we need to price it. So that all has to be decided.

Mhmm. Yeah. So

Usually before we get a contract.

Okay. So, usually, when I'm involved, you know, kind of early on in the process, I I look for that kind of thing, and I make sure that the client really looks at what those options are and feels them or touches them or something. But I find that when I'm not brought in until the framing is is happening when, you know, all of a sudden everyone realizes they need to shop for things that they don't know how to shop for, I find that when we get to this point of knowing what the drywall surfaces are, usually corners people understand. But the surface, there people are always really surprised. And I don't know whether it's because they forgot the conversation you had with them early on or they never really understood it.

Like, they don't really understand the plan until it's built.

Right. Well, we we do give them the option, and we do write it down. Because we'll have a section for drywall and say, here's you know, you you're gonna pick this just because the basic finish and the one that's super smooth takes just, you know, so much more time and effort. So that's a money that's a money issue.

Yeah. Yeah.

So if you wanna change you know, if someone says, hey. Well, I see that, but now I wanna I I wanna go smooth or something or some exotic deal.

Right.

Well, that that's gonna be an extra, and that's more money.

Right. So at the point at that point, you can still do any of the the options that exist. Although you have to know you have to know in the framing whether you're gonna do corner details or sharp, you know, corners, don't you?

Are they Typically yeah. We don't typically need to know that. I mean, there may be certain areas where you might you know, where something comes together you but, typically, no.

And are you finding anyone still doing sort of the rounded corners?

Barely. No. Not not really. Not not too much right now. Everyone's kinda gone back to the squares.

Yeah. That square corners.

Yeah. And so you've seen that come and go and then come and go again?

Yes. It'll it'll come back. I just I just need to wait a year.

Yeah. That's right. Well, I think that it's, you know there's a little less Mediterranean and a little more contemporary going on in general. Yes. Yeah.

Yes.

So then so once they've decided, you know, the direction of that, what is the process? So the drywall goes up, and then you mentioned it a little while ago, there's the taping and the mudding. Kinda tell me a little bit about that and when the texture goes on.

So what they would typically do is, you know, they would they're gonna mud all the nails, and then they're gonna tape all the places where the plywood I mean, the drywall comes together, the corners, and they'll mud that. They'll sand that down, and then they'll start then they would, you know, put a texture on. And the texture typically could be put on with a small gun, which shoots it onto the wall. Uh-huh. Depending on the style, you could shoot it onto the wall heavier, and they might use a trowel to give it a different look.

Uh-huh. So that Naeeman, that's the basic, you know, system of doing it.

And in general, the smoother it gets, the more expensive it gets?

Yes.

And is there any price difference in rounded corners or straight corners?

Right now, we're not really having our guys indicating that they want more or less Okay. For the round going off. Yeah. Yeah. It used to be the round corners were more money because they did take they did take more time to do them.

Uh-huh. I think my drywall guys are just putting it in their bid. You know?

Yeah. Because it's more

They're not telling me. They're just saying do it. You know?

Alright. So here's the big question of the day. Once the wall surfaces are completely covered, what's next?

Well, once they're once they're covered so, typically, we would bring in our painter to prime everything. Mhmm. Just because as anybody starts to come inside the house, we we we just like to go ahead and get it all primed so that if we're putting in cabinets, it's already done. Uh-huh. Know, the behind the cabinets.

You don't have to work around all the objects.

Yeah. So while the house is empty, we go through and prime everything. Okay. And recently, what we've been doing is hopefully that somebody knows what their ceiling color's gonna be.

Yeah.

And we like to go ahead and paint the ceilings Yeah. Right off the bat. And one of the reasons is because we like the electrician to then come in

Yeah.

And put in a lot of the houses now have cans. I'd like to say, hey. Put the cans in.

Right. Right.

Hook up some switches so the rest of us can see inside the house. Because Yep. When you're doing a lot of work, you can't see in a lot of these rooms in the back and stuff and then as opposed to the guys using, you know, floodlights and all that kind of stuff. If we have recessed lights and we can turn them on, we do.

Got it. Yeah. So in general, before this point, the work was kind of large and abstract. Now we're getting into fine details, and the sooner you can see it, the better.

Yes. Yes. And it and it makes everybody's work better because they can see it.

Yep. Alright. So we will be having you on again soon for the the next conversations about what goes on inside the house and what the order is. And, you know, Don, every time we get together, I learn so much from your vast building experience. Clearly, you are a master at your craft.

Get it? Don McMaster.

McMaster. Yes.

I'm sure you've never heard that one before. No. No? But seriously, I wanna remind our listeners that McMaster and Hill Construction, began in 02/2017 specializing in water and fire restoration. And through the years, they've grown the company into a leading full service remodeling and design firm.

You can find out more about McMaster and Hill Construction at McMasterandHill.com and through the link on our website. Go to www.fromdisastertodreamhome.com where you can find all of our previous episodes and photos of each step of the construction process. Please reach out to us with questions and ideas for future episodes. Jana Design Interiors is a full service interior design firm working with commercial and residential clients. If you're thinking about a company move or a major home renovation and you're in the Southern California area, please reach out to Jana@janahdesigninteriors.com.

Thank you for joining us on this episode of From Disaster to Dream Home, the podcast that takes you inside the home building and rebuilding process. Each week, we bring you time tested practices and the latest trends through conversations with top professionals in the building industry. You can find other episodes of From Disaster to Dream Home at ewnpodcastnetwork.com as well as Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Audible, and most other major podcast streaming services. Need design help? You can contact us or find out more about our guests at fromdisastertodreamhome.com.

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