1 00:01:14,700 --> 00:01:15,360 Hey everyone. 2 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:20,190 Welcome again to another episode of WP Product Talk. 3 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:25,979 Um, my name is Matt Cromwell and I am, uh, one of the co-founders of Give WP. 4 00:01:26,725 --> 00:01:29,785 And, uh, have been building products in WordPress for, 5 00:01:29,935 --> 00:01:31,645 uh, eight, nine years or so. 6 00:01:31,645 --> 00:01:34,315 I need to just figure out the number and stop, like guessing. 7 00:01:34,315 --> 00:01:37,255 I feel like every time that comes up, I, I have to scratch my head. 8 00:01:37,255 --> 00:01:38,905 It's like asking me how old my kids are. 9 00:01:39,355 --> 00:01:44,875 Um, but, um, and, um, I like to be able to talk about products and how 10 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,085 to grow them and how to do better with them, uh, in WordPress specifically. 11 00:01:48,445 --> 00:01:50,995 And, uh, another person who likes to do that is Katie. 12 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:51,384 Keith. 13 00:01:51,445 --> 00:01:53,575 Um, Katie, you wanna tell the world about. 14 00:01:55,875 --> 00:01:56,175 . Yep. 15 00:01:56,175 --> 00:02:00,435 So I'm Katie, c e o, and co-founder at Bar two plugins. 16 00:02:00,495 --> 00:02:04,125 Um, we've been selling plugins since 2016. 17 00:02:04,185 --> 00:02:05,925 You see Matt, I don't have to do maths. 18 00:02:05,925 --> 00:02:08,625 If you just say the year, um, year. 19 00:02:08,685 --> 00:02:13,545 I like, um, working out, um, new ways to, um, sell the plugins and build the 20 00:02:13,545 --> 00:02:17,475 business and also help other people with their own WordPress product businesses as. 21 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,650 Exactly, and this is WP Pro where we talk about all those things 22 00:02:22,650 --> 00:02:26,579 and we bring somebody smart and intelligent who uses years also, 23 00:02:26,609 --> 00:02:29,519 um, uh, to talk about this subject. 24 00:02:29,519 --> 00:02:33,209 And today we have the benefit of having Andrew Palmer with us. 25 00:02:33,215 --> 00:02:34,920 Andrew, tell us a little bit about yourself. 26 00:02:35,250 --> 00:02:35,490 Hello. 27 00:02:35,549 --> 00:02:36,720 Hello, I'm Andrew Palmer. 28 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:41,310 I'm the co-founder of bertha.ai, but I used to run the elegant marketplace.com, 29 00:02:41,310 --> 00:02:42,660 which I sold to in motion. 30 00:02:42,660 --> 00:02:46,200 So sold a lot of plugins, helped a lot of vendors. 31 00:02:46,260 --> 00:02:52,700 Um, Sell their plugins as well, including WP Feedback, which is now Atin io and. 32 00:02:53,489 --> 00:02:55,679 I'm joined by little Berth, so thank you. 33 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:56,940 . Say hello. 34 00:02:56,940 --> 00:02:57,779 That's excellent. 35 00:02:57,779 --> 00:02:58,679 Nice. 36 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:00,000 Oh my goodness. 37 00:03:00,059 --> 00:03:01,679 That's some good swag right there. 38 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:06,899 Um, there's some child in the world that has that and is choking on it right now. 39 00:03:06,899 --> 00:03:07,320 Probably. 40 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:08,459 It's, it's unique. 41 00:03:08,459 --> 00:03:10,170 It's the fu It's the only one. 42 00:03:10,174 --> 00:03:11,010 She's the only one. 43 00:03:11,549 --> 00:03:13,589 Ah, are you gonna do more? 44 00:03:14,369 --> 00:03:14,640 No. 45 00:03:16,765 --> 00:03:17,155 That's 46 00:03:17,155 --> 00:03:17,695 invaluable. 47 00:03:17,695 --> 00:03:20,695 If you do sponsor something though, then you should do that is a good 48 00:03:20,695 --> 00:03:21,205 idea. 49 00:03:21,445 --> 00:03:23,065 Yeah, yeah, it's, she's great. 50 00:03:23,065 --> 00:03:26,485 She's handmade and um, she looks great, doesn't 51 00:03:26,485 --> 00:03:26,725 she? 52 00:03:27,450 --> 00:03:28,320 That's amazing. 53 00:03:28,980 --> 00:03:29,670 That's fun. 54 00:03:30,180 --> 00:03:35,550 So if you, um, if you haven't figured it out yet, the subject today is artificial 55 00:03:35,550 --> 00:03:40,080 intelligence, uh, specifically using AI to grow your WordPress product business. 56 00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:45,480 Um, and, um, it's a subject that of course is trending and interesting because 57 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,250 of chat G B T and things like that. 58 00:03:47,580 --> 00:03:51,240 Um, I've been really fascinated just digging into it all and finding out 59 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,900 how long of a history artificial intelligence actually has in tech. 60 00:03:55,410 --> 00:03:58,170 It's not really a new thing at all, it's just getting a little bit more 61 00:03:58,174 --> 00:04:00,450 consumer oriented as of recent. 62 00:04:00,990 --> 00:04:04,890 Um, so, uh, we brought Andrew on to talk about it because 63 00:04:04,890 --> 00:04:08,519 he's the one who's really, um, been doing this in this product. 64 00:04:08,579 --> 00:04:10,710 Um, not the only one, but one of the big ones. 65 00:04:10,769 --> 00:04:13,845 Um, With, uh, Bertha AI in particular. 66 00:04:14,204 --> 00:04:18,015 Um, and, uh, I'm excited to to jump in and see how things are going. 67 00:04:18,044 --> 00:04:22,485 Uh, if you're watching right now, uh, thanks for being here and, um, you can 68 00:04:22,485 --> 00:04:25,695 reach out to us and ask your questions as well, and we'd like to answer them 69 00:04:25,695 --> 00:04:30,794 on screen, so feel free to add them into, uh, whatever chat box you might 70 00:04:30,794 --> 00:04:32,325 ha happen to have in front of you. 71 00:04:32,325 --> 00:04:34,905 YouTube, Facebook, um, Twitter. 72 00:04:35,820 --> 00:04:40,049 Um, or on Twitter, we're also watching the hashtag WP Product Talk. 73 00:04:40,049 --> 00:04:44,010 So, um, any and all ways to reach out is fair game. 74 00:04:44,609 --> 00:04:50,520 So topic first is why is this an important subject for WordPress product owners, uh, 75 00:04:50,525 --> 00:04:52,620 artificial intelligence in the product? 76 00:04:53,010 --> 00:04:56,039 Um, who wants to jump in first? 77 00:04:56,044 --> 00:04:59,099 Let's, let's let, let's let Andrew be last on this one. 78 00:04:59,159 --> 00:05:05,970 Um, because, uh, I can tell you that so far my experiences are, Small, but I just 79 00:05:05,970 --> 00:05:08,010 see tons of tons and tons of potential. 80 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:10,620 I've been hearing lots of people talk about ways that 81 00:05:10,620 --> 00:05:12,480 they might want to implement it. 82 00:05:12,570 --> 00:05:16,140 Um, Andrew was just telling me about some conversations he had about 83 00:05:16,140 --> 00:05:18,120 LearnDash on, on my side of things. 84 00:05:18,180 --> 00:05:23,190 Um, I can tell you that, um, I'm not gonna go into detail, um, but Cadence is 85 00:05:23,190 --> 00:05:26,670 working on some really interesting things with artificial intelligence right now. 86 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,280 I personally have just been using it mostly for content generation type 87 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:34,470 ideas, uh, for marketing purposes. 88 00:05:34,500 --> 00:05:38,070 Um, I've tried to imagine ways that it might be helpful to 89 00:05:38,100 --> 00:05:42,360 nonprofits, um, and donations, but I haven't been able to figure out 90 00:05:42,365 --> 00:05:44,010 the best way to leverage it there. 91 00:05:44,430 --> 00:05:49,980 Um, but, um, I just see it as a, a huge potential, lots of opportunity, 92 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,170 um, for, for products in general. 93 00:05:52,170 --> 00:05:56,850 If it, if, if the, if the shoe fits, of course, it really depends on the product. 94 00:05:57,705 --> 00:05:59,895 So I can keep it short. 95 00:05:59,895 --> 00:06:01,035 Katie, what's your thoughts? 96 00:06:02,820 --> 00:06:08,280 Yeah, it's basically the trending topic, um, of the last few months, isn't it? 97 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:12,750 You really couldn't put anything in tech that was trending more than AI right now. 98 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:16,830 Um, triggered of course by chat G P T, but in no ways limited to that. 99 00:06:17,340 --> 00:06:20,880 And I think, um, full WordPress product businesses, it brings, um, 100 00:06:20,910 --> 00:06:23,040 two different areas of opportunity. 101 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:28,510 One applies to all of us, which is the internal, um, workings of our. 102 00:06:28,790 --> 00:06:31,580 Um, there's lots of different opportunities that we need to think 103 00:06:31,580 --> 00:06:35,390 about of how it changes our working processes, whether that's marketing, 104 00:06:35,390 --> 00:06:40,760 coding, design, or anything else really, it has so many different strengths to 105 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,680 it that we all need to think about. 106 00:06:43,130 --> 00:06:47,360 And in addition to that, there's the opportunity for AI related products, 107 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,480 which is what Andrew, of course, um, is at the front line of, at the. 108 00:06:52,275 --> 00:06:53,445 Yeah, absolutely. 109 00:06:53,835 --> 00:06:58,545 If there was, if you didn't see we, Andrew and I had a fun tweet thread comment last 110 00:06:58,545 --> 00:07:04,755 week of how I generated the description of this podcast with I think five 111 00:07:04,755 --> 00:07:10,155 different, um, AI platforms, . Um, and I will say I think it was one of the best. 112 00:07:10,484 --> 00:07:12,945 Podcast descriptions I've ever written for sure. 113 00:07:12,945 --> 00:07:16,515 And I think it just was like, it felt like I had like four different 114 00:07:16,515 --> 00:07:18,044 editors standing over my shoulder. 115 00:07:18,044 --> 00:07:19,604 I was like, man, I better get this right. 116 00:07:19,784 --> 00:07:22,784 So, um, Andrew, what's your take? 117 00:07:22,784 --> 00:07:27,015 Why is this so valid, relevant, important for WordPress product owners 118 00:07:27,020 --> 00:07:27,405 right now? 119 00:07:27,734 --> 00:07:30,794 Well, for WordPress product owners particularly, so let's, let's just 120 00:07:30,794 --> 00:07:33,284 analyze who a WordPress product owner is. 121 00:07:33,854 --> 00:07:37,515 They're generally a, a freelancer that's want, wants to scratch their 122 00:07:37,515 --> 00:07:39,044 own itch, so they build a plugin. 123 00:07:39,195 --> 00:07:39,554 Mm-hmm. 124 00:07:40,050 --> 00:07:42,540 . , they know pretty much nothing about marketing. 125 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,870 They don't know how to do a strategy. 126 00:07:46,470 --> 00:07:51,090 Uh, they don't know how to write a blog post or they dunno what to to write about. 127 00:07:51,090 --> 00:07:53,400 They don't know how to do some research maybe. 128 00:07:53,790 --> 00:07:56,920 So with AI you can. 129 00:07:57,780 --> 00:08:00,960 Basically write a blog post about how do I solve this particular 130 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,360 issue with this particular plugin? 131 00:08:03,780 --> 00:08:06,420 And the AI will cut, will give you some marketing ideas. 132 00:08:06,425 --> 00:08:08,670 How do I build a strategy around the plugin? 133 00:08:08,670 --> 00:08:11,070 Or how do I build a marketing strategy around it? 134 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:12,300 You can literally ask. 135 00:08:13,215 --> 00:08:17,370 . Um, in my case, Bertha AI's got chat as well, so you can ask in the 136 00:08:17,370 --> 00:08:22,200 chat, how do I build a strategy for this particular plugin which solves 137 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,090 this particular problem, right? 138 00:08:24,130 --> 00:08:24,530 Yeah. 139 00:08:24,780 --> 00:08:27,210 And that, and, and she'll come up with the answers for you. 140 00:08:27,215 --> 00:08:29,280 And there's many other UMIs out there. 141 00:08:29,285 --> 00:08:35,850 Most of them actually, uh, are layer or application layers on top of open ai. 142 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:36,530 Mm-hmm. 143 00:08:36,615 --> 00:08:39,510 . Um, so we're all using GPT three, including ber, and we are 144 00:08:39,515 --> 00:08:40,980 using a couple of other engines. 145 00:08:41,835 --> 00:08:44,415 Open AI has had its own problems over the last few weeks. 146 00:08:44,415 --> 00:08:49,695 I mean, ironically, Microsoft put 10 billion into them, um, and they did 147 00:08:49,695 --> 00:08:52,965 a similar thing with Skype, and about three weeks later, Skype just crashed. 148 00:08:52,965 --> 00:08:57,615 So, um, it's just ironic and it's, it's, I'm sure it's a total co coincidence, 149 00:08:57,620 --> 00:09:02,295 but open AI has been crashing pretty much every day for the last week and a half. 150 00:09:02,295 --> 00:09:04,005 So we've mitigated that. 151 00:09:04,740 --> 00:09:05,939 Using a different system. 152 00:09:05,939 --> 00:09:10,949 So when open AI crashes, we automatically swap across to another application, 153 00:09:10,949 --> 00:09:14,219 which is, uh, it's not perfect, but it's, you know, it's getting 154 00:09:14,225 --> 00:09:15,719 there and it is working for us. 155 00:09:16,079 --> 00:09:19,740 But the, for product vendors like Katie, you know, when, when Katie 156 00:09:19,740 --> 00:09:23,699 first started, suddenly had the spring of the, you know, the, this fresh 157 00:09:23,699 --> 00:09:27,930 idea about what she wanted to do, Katie, what was your biggest problem? 158 00:09:27,930 --> 00:09:31,500 It was looking at a blank piece of paper saying, how do I describe this? 159 00:09:32,245 --> 00:09:33,520 as a solution. 160 00:09:33,630 --> 00:09:37,760 How do I get it across that it's a cost effective solution? 161 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,579 Why would somebody want to install something that they don't know 162 00:09:41,579 --> 00:09:45,300 Will is going to work for them on their own WordPress install? 163 00:09:45,689 --> 00:09:49,170 And I think that's the benefit to, to vendors. 164 00:09:49,530 --> 00:09:54,000 Let's not forget that Pippin's piping himself when, when Pippin's plugins were 165 00:09:54,329 --> 00:09:58,739 were sourced when he built Ed Digital downloads, I don't think he ever imagine. 166 00:09:59,470 --> 00:10:02,920 He'd have, uh, you know, a hundred thousand users or 50,000 users 167 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,800 or whatever, and the support that goes along with that. 168 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:10,270 So, what's happening now, particularly with Aaron Edwards, who you had on last 169 00:10:10,275 --> 00:10:17,710 week, um, at Twitter, he's now developing a system where people can easily upload 170 00:10:17,710 --> 00:10:23,200 their data for their help files or their FAQs or their knowledge base. 171 00:10:23,470 --> 00:10:27,340 And then that will build a, a chatbot that's specifically within their. 172 00:10:29,565 --> 00:10:33,555 , um, help desk, and that'll be first line of defense, if you like. 173 00:10:33,855 --> 00:10:37,455 So, you know, the, the power of AI to. 174 00:10:38,385 --> 00:10:42,645 Uh, product vendors be bigger than they actually are, even when they're 175 00:10:42,645 --> 00:10:44,145 first starting, is quite amazing. 176 00:10:44,145 --> 00:10:47,625 So we've always said as, as, as plugin developers. 177 00:10:47,625 --> 00:10:51,375 And in fact, I remember having a conversation with Katie months ago 178 00:10:51,380 --> 00:10:55,665 when I bought one of her, her plugins a year ago even, where I couldn't do 179 00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:59,225 something and it's because I didn't read the manual and really, mm-hmm. 180 00:10:59,305 --> 00:11:02,324 what, what I should have done is just looked at and she said in nicest, nice. 181 00:11:03,510 --> 00:11:04,050 Possible way. 182 00:11:04,890 --> 00:11:08,100 Read the manual, you know, so it was, but if you have any problems, 183 00:11:08,100 --> 00:11:09,090 you can't read the manual. 184 00:11:09,090 --> 00:11:09,780 Come back to me. 185 00:11:10,110 --> 00:11:13,500 And that's the issue is now we don't have to read the manual 186 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:14,970 because we can ask a chatbot. 187 00:11:16,410 --> 00:11:17,910 How do I get over this issue? 188 00:11:18,180 --> 00:11:18,450 Um, 189 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:20,070 a chat. 190 00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:21,990 How to read the manual for 191 00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:22,260 us. 192 00:11:22,885 --> 00:11:22,890 . Yeah. 193 00:11:22,890 --> 00:11:24,880 We're building stuff for They lie 194 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:25,680 though, don't they? 195 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:27,090 They make stuff up. 196 00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:29,360 They think every work. 197 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,640 For example, if you train them properly, Katie, you know, if 198 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,080 you train your, yes, that's true. 199 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,720 Your bot on all your documentation. 200 00:11:36,930 --> 00:11:42,510 Then it, then it will produce an answer for the user to say, how do I do this? 201 00:11:42,540 --> 00:11:44,160 Or, I've got a problem with this. 202 00:11:44,489 --> 00:11:47,969 And, and it will analyze and it'll generate some text and say, 203 00:11:47,969 --> 00:11:49,920 well, this could be the problem. 204 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,099 Go here and, and actually produce a link to the, to the part of the 205 00:11:53,099 --> 00:11:54,449 knowledge base that people need. 206 00:11:54,719 --> 00:11:58,800 So anybody that's got a highly developed knowledge base, they'll, they'll take 207 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,729 advantage of, of us and, and of what Aaron's doing and building them a 208 00:12:02,729 --> 00:12:05,400 chatbot, that will be their first line. 209 00:12:06,305 --> 00:12:06,845 , which would be great. 210 00:12:06,945 --> 00:12:07,895 That's, that's one of the, 211 00:12:07,895 --> 00:12:09,635 didn't he show that to us, Katie? 212 00:12:09,635 --> 00:12:09,935 After. 213 00:12:10,855 --> 00:12:11,670 afterwards, right? 214 00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:12,330 He didn't bring it up. 215 00:12:12,390 --> 00:12:13,800 Did he bring it up during the show? 216 00:12:14,130 --> 00:12:16,410 No, he asked, he actually asked me to talk about it. 217 00:12:19,410 --> 00:12:20,820 we're we technically competitors? 218 00:12:20,820 --> 00:12:22,470 But I mean, I love what Aaron's doing. 219 00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:26,910 He's, he's, he's doing similar to stuff to us because it's all in open 220 00:12:26,915 --> 00:12:30,180 ai, you know, so we can, we can train on models and stuff like that, but 221 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:36,285 you know, effectively, , if I'm a sole plugin developer or plugin vendor, my 222 00:12:36,285 --> 00:12:40,425 life has now changed because I now know how I can now got somebody to help me 223 00:12:40,425 --> 00:12:42,495 do the marketing, which is AI driven. 224 00:12:42,855 --> 00:12:47,415 And I've got somebody to, to be my first line of defense, which is AI driven. 225 00:12:47,420 --> 00:12:47,955 Mm-hmm. 226 00:12:48,035 --> 00:12:50,715 , uh, and I've also got product development if I decide to use 227 00:12:50,715 --> 00:12:53,355 Codex to help me write my code. 228 00:12:53,535 --> 00:12:58,365 Um, you know, so there's lots of things going on with AI that will help, uh, all 229 00:12:58,995 --> 00:13:00,395 software product developers actually. 230 00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:05,600 in the WordPress community we are, I'm seeing lots of people write lots of 231 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,440 little plugins to just help themselves actually, rather than just sell them on. 232 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:10,650 Yeah. 233 00:13:11,235 --> 00:13:12,375 Yeah, absolutely. 234 00:13:12,485 --> 00:13:15,915 I, I think he, he actually showed it to us after we had like, turned off 235 00:13:15,915 --> 00:13:20,415 the recording and it, I was like, this is something that I want, like Yeah. 236 00:13:20,420 --> 00:13:24,455 For, especially for any of the stellar products, uh, for our documentation 237 00:13:24,460 --> 00:13:29,655 section or one thing we do on the give side, um, on the support form is we, 238 00:13:29,775 --> 00:13:31,515 we, before you can even see the form it. 239 00:13:32,430 --> 00:13:35,460 Hey, like, here's a, a quick search of our docs. 240 00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:39,210 Like, is your answer, um, is your question answered here? 241 00:13:39,630 --> 00:13:45,720 Um, I could totally imagine, um, having the chat box there first, um, and then 242 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,430 it's like, have I answered your question? 243 00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:48,420 And you're like, no. 244 00:13:48,450 --> 00:13:48,720 Okay. 245 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,190 Then you could fill out a support ticket. 246 00:13:50,670 --> 00:13:54,470 Um, well, can you, can you imagine in the future that you'll actually 247 00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:57,000 be talking to an AI generated. 248 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:58,800 Avatar. 249 00:13:59,010 --> 00:14:02,780 So I would like to just imagine me as the avatar, and you ask me, you can 250 00:14:02,780 --> 00:14:07,800 verbally ask me a question via whatever medium you are, you are doing, and 251 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,800 I will hand created bot right there. 252 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,020 That, that, that one is the chat bot? 253 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:13,620 Yeah. 254 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:14,400 Yeah. 255 00:14:14,730 --> 00:14:15,480 A live chat. 256 00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:16,620 Yeah. 257 00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:18,630 Where, where's your, where's your birthday bot? 258 00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:19,230 Where'd it go? 259 00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:24,420 That's the one we, we should imagine we're all talking to the Bertha. 260 00:14:25,380 --> 00:14:25,890 Yes. 261 00:14:26,699 --> 00:14:27,150 I dunno. 262 00:14:27,150 --> 00:14:29,579 She wants, she says no, she says not. 263 00:14:30,569 --> 00:14:31,560 Katie, what do you think? 264 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:32,631 Does that, is that, I'll make one. 265 00:14:32,790 --> 00:14:34,410 I'll make one for your daughter Katie. 266 00:14:34,410 --> 00:14:36,390 I know that you are just, you're eyeing it up. 267 00:14:37,980 --> 00:14:39,839 . I'm worried that he's the only one in the world. 268 00:14:39,845 --> 00:14:41,490 You have two business partners. 269 00:14:41,490 --> 00:14:42,689 They at least need one. 270 00:14:42,959 --> 00:14:43,230 I have 271 00:14:43,230 --> 00:14:46,829 one business partner and he is not getting it and he's got two kids, so that's it. 272 00:14:46,829 --> 00:14:47,069 Ok. 273 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:47,990 Not having it. 274 00:14:49,550 --> 00:14:52,070 Katie, what do you think if, if, if all of our customers were 275 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:56,630 interacting with, uh, Bertha bots, um, instead of technical support 276 00:14:56,630 --> 00:14:57,940 technicians, what do you think of that? 277 00:14:59,564 --> 00:15:00,735 In theory, yes. 278 00:15:00,735 --> 00:15:02,865 I have personally not seen it yet. 279 00:15:02,895 --> 00:15:07,064 All I have had is trying to talk to my bank or something and being frustrated 280 00:15:07,064 --> 00:15:11,115 and because I think there's a lot of, um, people outside of WordPress 281 00:15:11,265 --> 00:15:15,915 have integrated this years before it was ready and you would both have 282 00:15:15,915 --> 00:15:17,775 had that experience of these box. 283 00:15:17,865 --> 00:15:20,175 It's like, for God sake, you can't do anything. 284 00:15:20,444 --> 00:15:21,675 Um, just tell. 285 00:15:22,065 --> 00:15:23,925 Let me speak to a real person. 286 00:15:24,135 --> 00:15:28,725 So yes, if the bots genuinely has that level of knowledge so that they could be, 287 00:15:28,965 --> 00:15:33,975 uh, first line of support, just like a tier one support engineer would be, then 288 00:15:33,975 --> 00:15:38,595 I'm all for that and I'd, I'd like to spend some time testing the latest tools 289 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,215 to see if they're at that stage yet. 290 00:15:40,515 --> 00:15:43,395 I just haven't personally seen it yet because I haven't done that. 291 00:15:44,715 --> 00:15:50,385 Yeah, the, the, the term I keep hearing bantered around a lot is generative ai. 292 00:15:50,445 --> 00:15:57,795 And that to me is kind of why I can't imagine it actually a answering super 293 00:15:57,795 --> 00:16:00,045 technical support questions quite yet. 294 00:16:00,135 --> 00:16:03,845 Um, cause I think it's really challenging to, into. 295 00:16:05,835 --> 00:16:11,415 Generate actual actionable responses to technical problems 296 00:16:11,415 --> 00:16:14,955 based on the documentation as is. 297 00:16:14,955 --> 00:16:18,615 Now, of course, like what you were saying, you have to train them, uh, 298 00:16:18,645 --> 00:16:20,775 to be smart enough to do those things. 299 00:16:21,225 --> 00:16:23,235 Um, we could literally. 300 00:16:23,630 --> 00:16:26,599 inform the bot by the actual tickets. 301 00:16:26,630 --> 00:16:31,010 Um, and not just the online docs, like throw help scout at the 302 00:16:31,010 --> 00:16:32,870 whole bot and see what happens. 303 00:16:33,260 --> 00:16:35,150 Um, that would be interesting. 304 00:16:35,270 --> 00:16:37,219 Um, well cause lot of data. 305 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,430 It's a ton of data and there's plenty times where we are 306 00:16:40,430 --> 00:16:42,319 training our technicians to use. 307 00:16:42,750 --> 00:16:46,410 Canned responses, uh, but to customize them to the situation. 308 00:16:46,770 --> 00:16:51,690 Uh, I imagine that's not that different from training an AI bot, right, Andrew? 309 00:16:52,020 --> 00:16:52,740 Absolutely not. 310 00:16:52,740 --> 00:16:56,010 So if, if somebody asked a question, it's a detailed question because 311 00:16:56,010 --> 00:16:57,990 in support, I do support as well. 312 00:16:57,995 --> 00:17:00,920 And I'm sure Katie's done the fair share of support. 313 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:08,200 It's, it's, it's like getting blood out of a stone from some people when they say. 314 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:10,185 . It's not working well. 315 00:17:10,185 --> 00:17:12,194 Not what's not working, right. 316 00:17:12,194 --> 00:17:15,285 So you, you then have to get an explanation from them. 317 00:17:15,885 --> 00:17:22,185 So one of the things that we are training the bots to do is to read the intent of 318 00:17:22,185 --> 00:17:29,325 the email, understand the frustration, because exclamation marks, um, uh, 319 00:17:29,355 --> 00:17:31,725 capital letters, all this kind of stuff. 320 00:17:32,745 --> 00:17:37,125 Become, come back empathically and say, I understand this. 321 00:17:37,215 --> 00:17:40,545 I understand the situation is not, not making you particularly happy. 322 00:17:40,815 --> 00:17:43,495 However, if you would like to go to this part of our. 323 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,180 Documentation. 324 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,400 This, this will probably help you. 325 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,290 If it doesn't help you, then please come back to me and I'll get a live 326 00:17:52,290 --> 00:17:54,930 support agent to, to deal with you. 327 00:17:54,930 --> 00:17:59,100 Yeah, but also part of the, the, the training is the live support 328 00:17:59,100 --> 00:18:01,800 agents have got masses of notes. 329 00:18:02,725 --> 00:18:07,794 solutions, whatever, those can all go into the knowledge base as well. 330 00:18:07,794 --> 00:18:12,504 Those can all go into the training model and eventually that first line. 331 00:18:12,504 --> 00:18:15,715 So, and, and lots of people will say, well, you know, what's gonna happen to 332 00:18:15,715 --> 00:18:17,844 your first line support guys and girls? 333 00:18:17,844 --> 00:18:21,415 And you'll say, well actually they'll become second tier and third tier. 334 00:18:21,419 --> 00:18:21,725 Mm-hmm. 335 00:18:22,044 --> 00:18:27,865 , their job gets better because they are then dealing with real issues rather 336 00:18:27,865 --> 00:18:32,790 than, , I installed the plugin as a theme, or I installed the theme as a plugin. 337 00:18:32,790 --> 00:18:35,370 You know, and we've all come across rather than just read 338 00:18:35,370 --> 00:18:37,080 the doc Andrew, rather than 339 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,830 thinking that it's been, you know, there's no CSS file there. 340 00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:44,010 Well, that's because you installed it as a plugin, but you know, 341 00:18:44,580 --> 00:18:45,600 all those kind of things. 342 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:51,015 And you've gotta be sympathetic with them, uh, with, with people, because, What we 343 00:18:51,015 --> 00:18:56,895 don't realize or what we don't really understand as technical people, you know, 344 00:18:56,895 --> 00:19:00,705 even the technical Twitter and we're all into in support and we're all doing, 345 00:19:01,305 --> 00:19:03,705 you know, the developing these plugins. 346 00:19:04,245 --> 00:19:05,715 We don't actually. 347 00:19:06,055 --> 00:19:11,605 Understand what a non-technical person goes through day in, day out. 348 00:19:12,025 --> 00:19:16,765 You know, I had somebody install Bertha today on Chrome, who's not, who's 349 00:19:16,885 --> 00:19:21,775 definitely not a technical person, and I saw some issues around the installation, 350 00:19:21,775 --> 00:19:23,365 which I thought was very, very simple. 351 00:19:23,365 --> 00:19:27,595 It's like two click installation where if, if there was a w was an 352 00:19:27,595 --> 00:19:30,445 issue that ha happily this person looked around and made sure that. 353 00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:31,250 Got it. 354 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:31,730 Right. 355 00:19:32,060 --> 00:19:35,600 But I've now seen a way to improve that for a non-technical, 356 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,310 a totally non-technical user. 357 00:19:37,910 --> 00:19:41,390 We, we, we assume too much sometimes as plugin developers 358 00:19:41,390 --> 00:19:42,590 and, and theme developers. 359 00:19:42,620 --> 00:19:42,680 Yeah. 360 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,460 So we, we make sure that we've, we make it as simple as possible for 361 00:19:46,465 --> 00:19:48,440 people to install our stuff and use it. 362 00:19:49,610 --> 00:19:49,940 So I've. 363 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,320 Yeah, I've gotten a little bit off script here just cuz it's interesting 364 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,590 and I think we wanna flesh out, uh, the whole scope of what this is. 365 00:19:58,590 --> 00:20:02,760 But like, if we have like one sentence, uh, why is this an 366 00:20:02,764 --> 00:20:05,010 important topic for WP product owners? 367 00:20:05,550 --> 00:20:09,419 Um, let's go around the horn and then we'll jump into story time. 368 00:20:09,629 --> 00:20:14,040 Um, Katie, why is this important for WP product? 369 00:20:15,750 --> 00:20:18,030 Because it's an opportunity for us all. 370 00:20:19,070 --> 00:20:19,490 Yep. 371 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:20,340 Absolutely. 372 00:20:20,460 --> 00:20:20,940 Andrew. 373 00:20:21,810 --> 00:20:22,530 Uh, growth. 374 00:20:23,850 --> 00:20:24,180 That's it. 375 00:20:24,180 --> 00:20:24,450 Ah. 376 00:20:25,925 --> 00:20:26,970 , ah, gimme two sentences. 377 00:20:26,970 --> 00:20:27,540 Short sentence. 378 00:20:28,485 --> 00:20:31,350 . Well, it, it, it will help you grow as a developer. 379 00:20:31,770 --> 00:20:31,890 Mm-hmm. 380 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:33,990 a product owner and a marketer. 381 00:20:34,110 --> 00:20:35,850 So it will help you grow basically. 382 00:20:35,855 --> 00:20:37,620 So, and, and it will help your product grow. 383 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,130 And if, if you integrate AI into your product, that will 384 00:20:41,130 --> 00:20:43,080 also keep it sticky as well. 385 00:20:43,085 --> 00:20:43,360 Mm-hmm. 386 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:43,960 . Mm-hmm. 387 00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:44,640 nice. 388 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,050 People will want to use 389 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:46,720 it every day. 390 00:20:48,585 --> 00:20:54,285 Yeah, I think, um, generally because keeping fresh, because I do see this as 391 00:20:54,285 --> 00:20:59,925 becoming a tool that is in everybody's tool chest going forward, um Sure. 392 00:21:00,435 --> 00:21:01,514 In one form or another. 393 00:21:01,575 --> 00:21:04,335 So making sure you're on top of things going forward. 394 00:21:04,905 --> 00:21:09,105 Um, we have one questionnaire and I do wanna make sure we highlight 395 00:21:09,475 --> 00:21:10,365 questions whenever they come up. 396 00:21:10,425 --> 00:21:12,495 Um, I'm not sure what this means exactly. 397 00:21:12,495 --> 00:21:14,895 Maybe Andrew, you have any insight on this? 398 00:21:14,895 --> 00:21:15,764 Is there a plugin for. 399 00:21:16,935 --> 00:21:17,774 Not Microsoft. 400 00:21:17,774 --> 00:21:23,264 Well, I mean, ber uh, Chrome Extension works with all Microsoft online products. 401 00:21:23,355 --> 00:21:27,585 So PowerPoint, um, word. 402 00:21:29,534 --> 00:21:34,094 Excel, it, it, you know, Bertha just works because she's in a web browser. 403 00:21:34,094 --> 00:21:37,995 She'll work with, with all the Microsoft Live products and Google Docs and mm-hmm. 404 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:38,564 things like that. 405 00:21:38,564 --> 00:21:38,725 Mm-hmm. 406 00:21:38,804 --> 00:21:39,854 , so anything that's web browser. 407 00:21:39,975 --> 00:21:44,175 My, my, our, our extension, Bertha's extension, I know because 408 00:21:44,175 --> 00:21:47,264 obviously I'm the owner of it and, um, I know that it works. 409 00:21:47,655 --> 00:21:51,735 In any web browser with anything like Notion, Mundy, um, mm-hmm. 410 00:21:51,975 --> 00:21:57,105 , WordPress, Shopify, every, every web browser based thing where you 411 00:21:57,105 --> 00:21:58,605 need to generate text or images. 412 00:21:58,605 --> 00:21:59,535 So it works in everything. 413 00:21:59,895 --> 00:22:03,345 That's why we did it as a prime extension as well as a a WordPress plugin. 414 00:22:04,245 --> 00:22:04,725 Nice. 415 00:22:05,879 --> 00:22:06,090 Cool. 416 00:22:06,090 --> 00:22:07,620 Keep the questions coming folks. 417 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:13,110 Um, I wanna jump into story time and I think, uh, it's important, um, when 418 00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:17,790 we are talking about our experiences to really say like, openly, like, I 419 00:22:17,790 --> 00:22:19,740 haven't built anything with AI to date. 420 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,100 Um, but it doesn't mean I don't have insights into what 421 00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:24,149 products can do with them. 422 00:22:24,270 --> 00:22:28,560 So let's talk a little bit about our personal experiences of, uh, using 423 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,860 AI in different ways and, um, and what that might mean for other folks. 424 00:22:31,889 --> 00:22:34,629 Um, Katie, you want to go first? 425 00:22:36,254 --> 00:22:36,615 Yep. 426 00:22:36,615 --> 00:22:37,125 Sure. 427 00:22:37,185 --> 00:22:41,235 So I don't think it matters if you haven't built anything with it because 428 00:22:41,235 --> 00:22:43,034 of the two strands that we've got. 429 00:22:43,185 --> 00:22:48,105 Um, so it's about how, um, you've used it to, um, build your business and 430 00:22:48,105 --> 00:22:49,514 the businesses that you work with. 431 00:22:49,844 --> 00:22:55,784 So in my case, I personally use it partly for marketing and partly for. 432 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,870 Just my own tasks. 433 00:22:57,900 --> 00:23:01,440 Um, with marketing, uh, I use it all the time. 434 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,910 I mostly use it to write, uh, outlines for articles. 435 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,510 I will always flesh them out myself using my product knowledge. 436 00:23:09,515 --> 00:23:12,960 I would never assign an article to a writer that came straight from 437 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,550 chat g p t, um, but it really does save time and also add ideas that I 438 00:23:17,970 --> 00:23:20,100 probably didn't come up with on my own. 439 00:23:20,490 --> 00:23:22,440 Um, I use it to rewrite things. 440 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,110 I'm actually quite a good writer, but it still. 441 00:23:25,750 --> 00:23:28,510 Um, something that I've missed and can improve on. 442 00:23:28,510 --> 00:23:34,360 The wording that might be, um, writing a sensitive email, um, to a 443 00:23:34,365 --> 00:23:36,129 team member or something like that. 444 00:23:36,220 --> 00:23:41,230 It actually, often, this makes me sound terrible, but it adds a human angle, 445 00:23:41,230 --> 00:23:43,060 which my own writing doesn't have. 446 00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:49,360 So the robot is clearly more human than me, uh, by adding humanity to the words. 447 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:50,500 Wow. 448 00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:53,170 I didn't know this was gonna be like, confessional time. 449 00:23:53,170 --> 00:23:53,910 This is amazing. 450 00:23:55,565 --> 00:23:59,865 Yeah, I won't be more specific, um, than about the ways I've used I 451 00:23:59,870 --> 00:24:01,565 shoes from the hit, basically. 452 00:24:01,565 --> 00:24:02,345 That's what she's saying. 453 00:24:02,345 --> 00:24:02,665 Yeah. 454 00:24:04,955 --> 00:24:07,685 . . Um, I use it things like rewriting tweets. 455 00:24:07,895 --> 00:24:11,285 Often I don't use what it comes up with because it is way too 456 00:24:11,285 --> 00:24:14,375 boastful or something, but it's interesting to have another. 457 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,090 Perspective, it's good for coming up with alternate headline ideas, and 458 00:24:19,090 --> 00:24:22,750 in fact, many of the headlines for the shows of this podcast are used. 459 00:24:22,780 --> 00:24:26,919 Chat G p T to draft and chose it, chose the best option. 460 00:24:27,524 --> 00:24:29,084 So those are ways I use it. 461 00:24:29,354 --> 00:24:32,774 But as the, um, business owner, I'm also, uh, thinking about 462 00:24:32,774 --> 00:24:34,635 how my team can incorporate it. 463 00:24:35,054 --> 00:24:39,945 So, for example, at the moment one of my developers is building some custom 464 00:24:40,245 --> 00:24:45,284 reports for our e d D sites and, uh, about, cuz we don't have the business. 465 00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:46,500 Information we need. 466 00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:51,090 So I've asked him to look at different AI tools, um, in terms of speeding up that 467 00:24:51,090 --> 00:24:54,300 process and um, automating it and so on. 468 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,710 I've talked to my marketing team about how they can be using it and 469 00:24:58,710 --> 00:25:02,190 it is interesting cuz some people seem to be a bit threatened, whereas 470 00:25:02,195 --> 00:25:03,810 others are willing to embrace it. 471 00:25:03,930 --> 00:25:06,180 So I need to word it in a sensitive way. 472 00:25:06,180 --> 00:25:08,220 I'm not trying to do them out of their jobs. 473 00:25:08,550 --> 00:25:12,780 I'm trying to see how they can achieve even more, um mm-hmm without, 474 00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:14,730 you know, having fewer people. 475 00:25:15,405 --> 00:25:15,765 Yeah. 476 00:25:15,765 --> 00:25:20,415 And um, we've had a new in-house designer start today, and I've also created 477 00:25:20,415 --> 00:25:24,915 a task for him to look at how maybe AI might help with image generation, 478 00:25:24,975 --> 00:25:29,025 particularly on like blog posts, social media posts, that kind of thing. 479 00:25:29,025 --> 00:25:32,915 So I'm thinking more widely about how it could be used within the business. 480 00:25:33,625 --> 00:25:37,350 . And of course there's something that's not my area, which is the whole development 481 00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:41,729 side of things, and I haven't spoken yet with our plug-in developers about whether 482 00:25:41,790 --> 00:25:46,530 they're using that and how they could use that in a positive way, um, for their 483 00:25:46,530 --> 00:25:46,889 work. 484 00:25:47,790 --> 00:25:48,090 Yep. 485 00:25:48,330 --> 00:25:48,990 Absolutely. 486 00:25:49,650 --> 00:25:49,890 Yeah. 487 00:25:49,890 --> 00:25:54,690 My experiences are very similar, uh, in the sense, uh, I'm a, I'm a consumer. 488 00:25:54,750 --> 00:26:00,990 Um, I just, uh, recently paid for chat g p t just cuz I'm impatient and I don't wanna 489 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,060 refresh the screen 25 times and exacerbate their problems with server load. 490 00:26:06,450 --> 00:26:08,040 Um, but. 491 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:13,560 Uh, I think one of the things, I use it for like many ways. 492 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,590 I would just call it like an enhanced search engine because, 493 00:26:16,650 --> 00:26:20,550 uh, for like a research purposes recently, I'm looking a lot into. 494 00:26:21,740 --> 00:26:27,165 , um, net promoter score, uh, type stuff for, uh, customer experience and support. 495 00:26:27,584 --> 00:26:33,284 Um, and I just have been, um, asking, uh, different chatbots like, uh, what's 496 00:26:33,290 --> 00:26:37,574 the best way to implement Net Promoter score on an existing customer base? 497 00:26:37,995 --> 00:26:42,074 Um, I like asking like human questions to the, for them to give 498 00:26:42,074 --> 00:26:46,385 full responses and sometimes I, I say, Three sentences on this, or I 499 00:26:46,385 --> 00:26:48,725 say write three paragraphs on this. 500 00:26:48,785 --> 00:26:55,355 Um, one thing I, uh, I like on the way, uh, Microsoft being has implemented it 501 00:26:55,355 --> 00:26:57,815 is it always, uh, sites, its sources. 502 00:26:57,845 --> 00:26:59,375 Um, I really like that a lot. 503 00:26:59,705 --> 00:27:03,785 Um, but I have found that their sources are usually three to four years old. 504 00:27:03,815 --> 00:27:07,865 Usually I haven't found them, like citing new sources hardly 505 00:27:07,865 --> 00:27:09,525 ever, which is interest. 506 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:15,495 . Um, and then, um, even, um, when I was putting together, 507 00:27:16,290 --> 00:27:17,700 Description of this podcast. 508 00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:21,630 What I really liked in when I was using Notion, which I know that all these 509 00:27:21,630 --> 00:27:25,470 are all chat G P T, but the, their implementation makes it have a different 510 00:27:25,470 --> 00:27:26,940 experience, which is interesting. 511 00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:31,590 But when I did Notion, I said, write a paragraph on, uh, podcasts, 512 00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:35,220 introducing Andrew Palmer, uh, talking about WordPress products. 513 00:27:35,580 --> 00:27:39,870 Um, and it gave me a paragraph and then I said, now rewrite that par. 514 00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:40,590 I just told it. 515 00:27:40,590 --> 00:27:45,000 Rewrite the paragraph above with a Fleisch Kincaid score of sixth. 516 00:27:45,965 --> 00:27:47,685 and it did it and it was really good. 517 00:27:47,865 --> 00:27:49,035 I was really impressed. 518 00:27:49,035 --> 00:27:54,225 So like, iterating on the responses as you go, uh, I think is really interesting. 519 00:27:54,705 --> 00:27:58,515 Um, so those are, those have been my experiences too. 520 00:27:58,575 --> 00:28:02,745 Um, I did try, one, one of 'em was write a plugin on how I can implement 521 00:28:02,865 --> 00:28:06,565 SEO O Metatags on my WordPress site just to see if it would. 522 00:28:07,210 --> 00:28:09,990 , you know, make me compete against Yos tomorrow. 523 00:28:10,050 --> 00:28:11,400 Like let's, let's do that. 524 00:28:11,850 --> 00:28:15,270 Um, and it was like, I can't write a plugin for you, but 525 00:28:15,270 --> 00:28:16,380 here's how you would do it. 526 00:28:17,580 --> 00:28:17,820 . Exactly. 527 00:28:17,825 --> 00:28:18,090 Yeah. 528 00:28:18,090 --> 00:28:18,150 Yeah. 529 00:28:19,260 --> 00:28:19,800 I wanna, okay. 530 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,440 Well there's code, there's Codex, you know, you got Codex. 531 00:28:22,770 --> 00:28:27,930 So how I use AI every day, obviously I'm, you know, we're, I'm testing the plugins, 532 00:28:28,350 --> 00:28:30,600 uh, I'm testing implementations as well. 533 00:28:31,290 --> 00:28:34,770 You know, as you say, we had a, I had, you know, I'm talking to learning management 534 00:28:34,770 --> 00:28:38,639 people all the time about it, you know, write me a course description, uh, 535 00:28:38,639 --> 00:28:40,590 write me a lesson on a particular site. 536 00:28:40,590 --> 00:28:44,160 You know, I did the example I did for, for, um, the meeting that I had with 537 00:28:44,165 --> 00:28:50,055 your guys was, You know, do me a course description on rock climbing and now give 538 00:28:50,055 --> 00:28:52,245 me 10 lesson titles for rock climbing. 539 00:28:52,455 --> 00:28:54,705 From that, from the lesson titles. 540 00:28:54,705 --> 00:28:56,925 Write the lesson on that, that wrote the lesson. 541 00:28:56,925 --> 00:29:01,605 And so, you know, and, and every time I show the power of AI to 542 00:29:01,605 --> 00:29:07,845 people, Their, their heads have get, literally, they go, oh my goodness, 543 00:29:07,905 --> 00:29:09,284 I've got to be able to use this. 544 00:29:09,284 --> 00:29:15,074 So chat, G P T is great, don't get me wrong, but it, it's not the whole story. 545 00:29:15,074 --> 00:29:18,316 You know, there are many, many UMIs out there that. 546 00:29:18,525 --> 00:29:21,075 The ones that I don't like are the ones that will write you a two 547 00:29:21,075 --> 00:29:25,155 and a half thousand word blog post instantaneously from a, from a thing. 548 00:29:25,155 --> 00:29:27,015 I think that's the wrong way to go around it. 549 00:29:27,015 --> 00:29:29,835 I think, you know, we've got to use them as writing assistance. 550 00:29:30,165 --> 00:29:35,115 So for today, for instance, I was in a coaching, uh, day with a client who's 551 00:29:35,115 --> 00:29:39,105 a marketing manager of, uh, a law firm that has seven separate offices. 552 00:29:39,855 --> 00:29:43,485 So we used Rephrase a lot because we, we did, we wanted to tell 553 00:29:43,485 --> 00:29:44,925 a similar story, but not the. 554 00:29:45,740 --> 00:29:46,669 On each website. 555 00:29:46,669 --> 00:29:51,290 And we also didn't want to get pen penalized for, um, duplicate content. 556 00:29:51,290 --> 00:29:56,600 So we, we basically took some copy, rephrased it, put some localization 557 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:02,149 in it with seo, wrote some seo, meta metatags, and titles and meta 558 00:30:02,149 --> 00:30:06,290 descriptions, and boom, you know, we've got the seven websites all. 559 00:30:07,270 --> 00:30:09,610 but similar because they're, they're a similar brand. 560 00:30:09,970 --> 00:30:14,560 So that's the power of AI is that you can use the generative, and why 561 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:19,480 it's called generative is to separate it, separate it from the AI of, say 562 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,840 Tesla, that you drive a car, you know that that will drive a car. 563 00:30:23,205 --> 00:30:28,935 or the AI that will, will help a surgeon do a, a heart operation from Mars away. 564 00:30:28,935 --> 00:30:32,085 So that, that's why it's pretty much called generative AI 565 00:30:32,090 --> 00:30:36,705 because it is very specifically generating text and, and or images. 566 00:30:37,215 --> 00:30:40,875 Um, which Bertha does both of in, in its own plugin and in the Chrome 567 00:30:40,875 --> 00:30:47,145 extension as well, and, and improving all the time on what we can get outta. 568 00:30:47,865 --> 00:30:50,980 generative AI it with prompts. 569 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,800 So, you know, a new skill is prompt writing. 570 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:54,370 Yeah. 571 00:30:54,370 --> 00:30:58,300 Uh, part of what makes our plugin better than anybody else, in my view, 572 00:30:58,510 --> 00:30:59,950 is that our prompts are excellent. 573 00:30:59,980 --> 00:31:04,930 You know, we spent four months writing prompts from a website owner's 574 00:31:04,935 --> 00:31:06,550 perspective because we've built. 575 00:31:06,605 --> 00:31:11,735 4,000 websites between us, Vito and I, so we know what website owners want or 576 00:31:11,735 --> 00:31:14,735 we felt we knew and then we built the prompts and then we're building more 577 00:31:14,735 --> 00:31:20,825 prompts and, and educating Bertha more and more helping her learn the user as well. 578 00:31:20,825 --> 00:31:23,855 So that's the benefit that I've got from it. 579 00:31:23,855 --> 00:31:28,295 But I, you know, for instance, I'm now, I've got a, a web agency as well. 580 00:31:28,295 --> 00:31:32,025 I'm now offering very quick website builds with. 581 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:34,515 because I can. 582 00:31:34,825 --> 00:31:35,315 Yeah. 583 00:31:35,315 --> 00:31:39,254 And that's, that's the benefit for a small, um, web design 584 00:31:39,254 --> 00:31:41,025 agency or a web build agency. 585 00:31:41,475 --> 00:31:45,105 Go into your templating stuff, do renter websites if you like, or 586 00:31:45,105 --> 00:31:48,585 lease websites and say, okay, you can pay, pay for this over 18 months. 587 00:31:49,004 --> 00:31:50,865 Here's your solution, Mrs. 588 00:31:50,865 --> 00:31:53,835 Florist, because you haven't got a lot of money. 589 00:31:53,835 --> 00:31:55,125 You know, you've literally got to. 590 00:31:56,205 --> 00:32:00,795 A bouquet of flowers a month just to pay for this, this website, 591 00:32:00,795 --> 00:32:01,725 that's what it's gonna cost you. 592 00:32:01,725 --> 00:32:05,805 It's gonna cost you 85 good a month or 150 good a month to run this website. 593 00:32:05,805 --> 00:32:08,025 But you don't have to worry about writing copy. 594 00:32:08,025 --> 00:32:09,885 You don't have to worry about local seo. 595 00:32:09,885 --> 00:32:11,715 You don't have to worry about anything. 596 00:32:11,715 --> 00:32:17,535 And also with, uh, today, you know, with seven Google business pages, 597 00:32:17,895 --> 00:32:19,335 we had to make them all different. 598 00:32:19,905 --> 00:32:21,825 So we used AI to make them all different. 599 00:32:22,605 --> 00:32:24,555 Yeah, again, similar but different. 600 00:32:24,855 --> 00:32:30,675 So that's where, where I'm using ai, I'm making sure that people, um, can build 601 00:32:30,675 --> 00:32:35,985 their businesses locally, uh, make sure that the content is not duplicated, 602 00:32:36,525 --> 00:32:39,075 uh, but it says a similar message. 603 00:32:39,525 --> 00:32:41,715 And also, you know, building images around. 604 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,735 Imagine building a blog post out and being able to generate images 605 00:32:46,635 --> 00:32:49,755 whilst you are building that blog post out as, as an example. 606 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,540 , you know, it's, it's crazy. 607 00:32:51,540 --> 00:32:54,090 That's, this is why it's so executing just the product. 608 00:32:54,095 --> 00:32:54,480 Absolutely. 609 00:32:54,540 --> 00:32:56,940 It's a productivity tool and that's what you've gotta think 610 00:32:56,940 --> 00:32:57,150 of it as. 611 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:57,720 Mm-hmm. 612 00:32:58,140 --> 00:32:58,500 . Yep. 613 00:32:59,220 --> 00:33:01,110 Good question here from Jim Ross. 614 00:33:01,170 --> 00:33:05,580 Um, do you think there are any ethical concerns with using AI 615 00:33:05,580 --> 00:33:07,650 in WordPress product businesses? 616 00:33:07,650 --> 00:33:09,630 And how can they be addressed? 617 00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:13,710 Um, I'll just say there's always ethical concerns about everything 618 00:33:13,710 --> 00:33:18,630 related to business, but, um, anybody gotta take on this? 619 00:33:19,215 --> 00:33:24,165 , Katie in particular, like copyright concerns maybe, um, or. 620 00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:29,250 I have tried to check chat beat G P T before, and I don't 621 00:33:29,250 --> 00:33:31,020 think it does plagiarize. 622 00:33:31,050 --> 00:33:36,240 It does what real writers do, which is combine things to create something new. 623 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,170 That's actually how a lot of humans write unless it's true creative writing. 624 00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:40,920 Mm-hmm. 625 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,980 . Um, so I haven't found that source of issue. 626 00:33:44,639 --> 00:33:45,990 Um, I did read. 627 00:33:46,764 --> 00:33:47,965 A story. 628 00:33:47,965 --> 00:33:51,595 Um, it was, I think there was like a shooting or something 629 00:33:51,595 --> 00:33:53,274 and somebody got found out. 630 00:33:53,274 --> 00:33:54,175 Have you heard about this? 631 00:33:54,175 --> 00:33:57,294 That it said, um, there was an email that somebody wrote and it 632 00:33:57,294 --> 00:34:00,084 said written by chat, g p t at the bottom and everybody Yeah. 633 00:34:00,475 --> 00:34:02,875 Was up arm, uh, sorry, that's a really bad phrase. 634 00:34:03,024 --> 00:34:04,615 Was really annoyed about that. 635 00:34:04,615 --> 00:34:08,969 And, . But then when I read it, it wasn't that the email content was 636 00:34:08,969 --> 00:34:12,359 wrong, it was that it was the, it was 637 00:34:12,359 --> 00:34:13,190 the principal, the impression 638 00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:15,109 principle of Yeah, yeah, yeah. 639 00:34:15,330 --> 00:34:18,659 But I think the writing was appropriate from what I could gra gather. 640 00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:19,509 Mm-hmm. 641 00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:24,719 . So it's more about people's, I, um, prejudices, opinions, emotions. 642 00:34:25,049 --> 00:34:28,710 Uh, if they think that a robot has written them a, a sensitive 643 00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:32,909 email, they may not think it was genuine, even though actually it. 644 00:34:33,635 --> 00:34:37,805 Um, because people think, oh, if it was written by ai, then the person 645 00:34:37,805 --> 00:34:41,195 had no true input into it, which is not the correct way to use it. 646 00:34:41,195 --> 00:34:42,595 Of course, as we've touched on, 647 00:34:43,319 --> 00:34:46,739 Yeah, I mean that emailed, it's like a special letter from our 648 00:34:46,745 --> 00:34:50,399 ceo o and founder, and then at the bottom generated by chat, g p t. 649 00:34:50,399 --> 00:34:52,560 Like it just wouldn't go over very well. 650 00:34:53,549 --> 00:34:54,449 or generated with the help. 651 00:34:54,959 --> 00:34:59,339 You know, it, it depends whether or not the person is, um, you know, like Katie 652 00:34:59,339 --> 00:35:03,390 was saying that she shoots from the hip, but, so sometimes she might use chat 653 00:35:03,819 --> 00:35:11,340 GTP or so, or, or some, some other, um, AI to, to gentrify it really, or, you 654 00:35:11,340 --> 00:35:15,720 know, make it a little bit more gentle or more sensitive, or IPA empathic. 655 00:35:16,260 --> 00:35:18,630 I don't know what the, where, where's the ethical? 656 00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:19,020 I don't. 657 00:35:19,740 --> 00:35:22,800 I need to know what the ethical concerns are before. 658 00:35:23,325 --> 00:35:23,504 Yeah. 659 00:35:23,535 --> 00:35:28,424 Um, I answer that really, I dunno what ethical concerns are around ai. 660 00:35:28,484 --> 00:35:33,855 There's been a lot of talk about it's got bias and, and it's inbuilt bias because 661 00:35:33,855 --> 00:35:38,865 it's built by a certain demographic, but it's, uh, but it's also only 662 00:35:38,865 --> 00:35:42,555 scanned 20 10% or 15% of the web anyway. 663 00:35:43,665 --> 00:35:51,390 But the, I think where this, I think where Jim's aiming at is, is it copying stuff? 664 00:35:51,390 --> 00:35:54,870 So more, more of the ethical stuff is coming from the arts generation. 665 00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:55,290 Copyright. 666 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,060 So from the image generation. 667 00:35:57,810 --> 00:36:04,770 But when I go to college and I learn, um, about the Renaissance and I learn about 668 00:36:05,010 --> 00:36:09,660 Greek mythology or Greek, you know, the Greek statues and sculpture and all that 669 00:36:09,660 --> 00:36:12,690 kind of stuff, I'm learning a style. 670 00:36:14,460 --> 00:36:20,610 Production for, um, a painting, for a sculpture, for a design product. 671 00:36:20,610 --> 00:36:23,310 Designers, you know, Steve Ives or whatever, you know, the, the guy 672 00:36:23,315 --> 00:36:30,720 that designed the iPhone had ideas for years, um, about how he would, 673 00:36:30,780 --> 00:36:32,370 how he would put things together. 674 00:36:32,730 --> 00:36:34,460 He was inspired. 675 00:36:35,055 --> 00:36:39,735 By other artists or other creatives or other product designers. 676 00:36:40,065 --> 00:36:45,705 So with ai, all AI is doing is being inspired by everything that it's 677 00:36:45,705 --> 00:36:50,985 scanned, everything that's in its database, but because it's not human 678 00:36:51,435 --> 00:36:52,965 or it doesn't bleed when you cut it. 679 00:36:53,690 --> 00:36:54,105 . Mm-hmm. 680 00:36:54,190 --> 00:36:56,145 , it's copy, it's not inspiration. 681 00:36:56,445 --> 00:36:56,505 Yeah. 682 00:36:56,505 --> 00:36:57,195 And that's that. 683 00:36:57,195 --> 00:36:58,155 I think that's the key. 684 00:36:58,155 --> 00:37:03,975 But in, in, in the end, at the end of the day, generative AI can only produce 685 00:37:04,245 --> 00:37:07,065 what it's learnt just like a human being. 686 00:37:07,070 --> 00:37:08,055 We can only, yeah. 687 00:37:08,985 --> 00:37:14,255 Be as creative as we can be from learning how to be creative. 688 00:37:14,325 --> 00:37:16,735 There's never, yeah, there's no spontaneity. 689 00:37:16,740 --> 00:37:21,975 I can't, I'm not born and then held in a box for 20 years and then I suddenly come. 690 00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:24,120 as Van Goff. 691 00:37:24,510 --> 00:37:24,750 Am I? 692 00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:25,110 Yeah. 693 00:37:25,110 --> 00:37:25,550 I can't. 694 00:37:25,550 --> 00:37:26,190 Is this impossible? 695 00:37:26,250 --> 00:37:29,040 I've gotta learn that process through education and 696 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:30,720 inspiration from other things. 697 00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:31,560 So that's all generative. 698 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:32,510 I like That's true. 699 00:37:32,540 --> 00:37:33,030 Same. 700 00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:33,031 I 701 00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:33,720 think for me. 702 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:34,350 Yeah. 703 00:37:34,350 --> 00:37:39,840 For me, there's two, two things that stand out as, um, a little slippery slope ish. 704 00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:45,630 Um, uh, the first one is really on the generative image side. 705 00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:49,710 Uh, not so much content, but like the way that AI generates images. 706 00:37:50,565 --> 00:37:55,095 Specifically around concerns that all of our images are out on the web and 707 00:37:55,095 --> 00:37:59,355 all of our images might be used in ways that generate something that we 708 00:37:59,355 --> 00:38:02,085 might not like, um, particularly well. 709 00:38:02,504 --> 00:38:07,395 Um, and, uh, you know, if it, if something too closely resembles me. 710 00:38:07,835 --> 00:38:11,345 Um, putting me in a position on an image that I don't want. 711 00:38:11,375 --> 00:38:13,444 Like, uh, I, I don't love that idea. 712 00:38:13,895 --> 00:38:18,694 Um, uh, but I know that a lot of folks are already digging into some of those 713 00:38:18,694 --> 00:38:23,375 implications and what that might look like and how we might like somehow put 714 00:38:23,375 --> 00:38:28,205 tags into the meta of images to prevent that type of thing, um, when it's your 715 00:38:28,205 --> 00:38:30,154 likeness, um, and things like that. 716 00:38:30,154 --> 00:38:32,345 So I think that is something to. 717 00:38:32,924 --> 00:38:33,465 in mind. 718 00:38:33,525 --> 00:38:36,855 Um, I have a really, the other one is, is on the content side. 719 00:38:37,185 --> 00:38:39,615 Um, and, uh, specifically in education. 720 00:38:39,615 --> 00:38:40,695 In the education realm. 721 00:38:40,695 --> 00:38:44,685 I have a funny story where, My 16 year old, um, was asked to 722 00:38:44,685 --> 00:38:49,754 write an essay, um, comparing Jesus of Nazareth with Spider-Man. 723 00:38:49,845 --> 00:38:52,575 Um, I just thought it was a ridiculous prompt. 724 00:38:52,995 --> 00:38:57,165 Uh, I was like, I cannot believe this is like a 10th grade, uh, prompt. 725 00:38:57,169 --> 00:38:58,004 But all right. 726 00:38:58,245 --> 00:38:59,475 I said, it's so ridiculous. 727 00:38:59,475 --> 00:39:02,535 I, I, I decided I'm gonna show her a Chachi pt. 728 00:39:02,535 --> 00:39:04,484 I said, you should just generate it from this. 729 00:39:04,814 --> 00:39:06,464 Um, then you should change it. 730 00:39:06,585 --> 00:39:07,814 Uh, it needs to be your own. 731 00:39:07,995 --> 00:39:09,765 But that is exactly where the. 732 00:39:11,285 --> 00:39:15,695 , the ethical side of things comes into play is if you, if you do try to just pass 733 00:39:15,695 --> 00:39:21,605 off, um, content that you're either paid for or it's supposed to be a reflection 734 00:39:21,635 --> 00:39:28,205 of your, of your effort, uh, uh, uh, or, uh, in, in, in a envir, excuse me, in a. 735 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:29,720 educational environment. 736 00:39:30,050 --> 00:39:33,560 Um, you're trying to pass that off as your own when it's not. 737 00:39:33,890 --> 00:39:37,460 Um, I think those are ethical concerns that are really important. 738 00:39:37,490 --> 00:39:40,220 Um, especially even when it comes to like LearnDash. 739 00:39:40,220 --> 00:39:43,250 Like, all right, let's generate a whole course on how to write 740 00:39:43,255 --> 00:39:46,790 WordPress plugins with chat G B T, and then sell it for 25 bucks a pop. 741 00:39:47,060 --> 00:39:49,820 You could do that for sure, and you don't even have to. 742 00:39:50,770 --> 00:39:56,320 I think the part, I don't think that would be ethically sound to do it that way. 743 00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:01,810 Um, you could, um, but I do think that there is also just the raw 744 00:40:01,930 --> 00:40:03,850 marketplace that will put you in check. 745 00:40:03,850 --> 00:40:08,110 Like, I don't think that people will enjoy that course particularly well and 746 00:40:08,115 --> 00:40:09,580 you might get a lot of refunds for it. 747 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,240 Um, but uh, using it as a launching pad. 748 00:40:13,690 --> 00:40:17,290 Thinking of ideas and putting together your own thoughts and 749 00:40:17,890 --> 00:40:20,980 actually crafting something, uh, based on that is a different story. 750 00:40:20,980 --> 00:40:22,930 So those are my two ethical 751 00:40:22,930 --> 00:40:23,350 ones. 752 00:40:23,470 --> 00:40:29,020 Um, well, I, well, I, was that an example you used from a, a school? 753 00:40:29,020 --> 00:40:32,020 Did they asked to compare Jesus to, um, to Spain? 754 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:33,770 Did they really have Very old, yeah. 755 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:34,390 Um, yeah, 756 00:40:34,750 --> 00:40:38,590 I mean, it was a religion course, so, um, pardon me, it was a, it 757 00:40:38,590 --> 00:40:42,279 was a religion course, so, Okay. 758 00:40:42,830 --> 00:40:43,439 Mm-hmm. 759 00:40:44,279 --> 00:40:44,970 , still an odd thing 760 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:50,640 anyway, because none of these are in specific to ai, the ethical concerns. 761 00:40:50,799 --> 00:40:51,200 Mm-hmm. 762 00:40:51,285 --> 00:40:55,830 , plagiarism, um, image doctoring, uh, those sorts of things. 763 00:40:55,830 --> 00:40:59,160 All of that, it applies to life in general. 764 00:40:59,165 --> 00:40:59,359 Mm-hmm. 765 00:40:59,459 --> 00:41:04,620 . Um, so AI might, AI might have exacerbated that, but we haven't really, I think 766 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,450 between us, come up with any issues that. 767 00:41:07,625 --> 00:41:11,404 Specific to AI that are bringing new into the world that we haven't 768 00:41:11,404 --> 00:41:13,174 already had to tackle in some other. 769 00:41:14,205 --> 00:41:14,325 I 770 00:41:14,325 --> 00:41:14,715 agree. 771 00:41:14,715 --> 00:41:18,705 That's really, cause I don't, I mean, I don't, I agree with you, Katie. 772 00:41:18,705 --> 00:41:22,965 There's nothing, there's nothing that hasn't been done by humanity, good or 773 00:41:22,965 --> 00:41:27,075 bad, that AI has yet to, to recreate Yeah. 774 00:41:27,405 --> 00:41:33,375 In, in yet to create something new that, that would, would cause somebody 775 00:41:33,380 --> 00:41:35,985 to say there's an ethical concern here. 776 00:41:35,985 --> 00:41:36,465 Yeah. 777 00:41:36,795 --> 00:41:39,285 But we do, human beings naturally are bias. 778 00:41:39,290 --> 00:41:40,665 They, they have bias. 779 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,580 And because of we've got bias, AI has bias because it learns from humans. 780 00:41:47,580 --> 00:41:47,940 Right. 781 00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:52,080 Eventually there will be, you know, there's, there's the, the 782 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,880 court that says there will be so much AI generated content. 783 00:41:57,435 --> 00:42:03,705 But when AI res scrapes, whatever it res scrapes, it will actually be AI 784 00:42:03,975 --> 00:42:07,305 writing, ai, writing ai, learning from ai. 785 00:42:07,965 --> 00:42:11,655 So there will be no originality left in the world, but AI inception, 786 00:42:11,775 --> 00:42:14,055 yeah, I'm not sure we're gonna be alive when that happens. 787 00:42:15,135 --> 00:42:19,935 I think, I mean, I think we do have to acknowledge so that like while um, 788 00:42:20,025 --> 00:42:21,735 those problems have existed, this. 789 00:42:22,609 --> 00:42:26,450 Proliferate them in a way that wasn't available. 790 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:32,120 Like people can forge images, but I know that I couldn't reliably forge an image 791 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:37,549 before . Like I couldn't do something passable as a, as an actual image forgery. 792 00:42:37,850 --> 00:42:42,140 Uh, but now suddenly tools like that are a lot more accessible, a lot more available. 793 00:42:42,860 --> 00:42:44,150 , uh, to the common user. 794 00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:45,740 I mean, it's the same thing with weapons. 795 00:42:45,740 --> 00:42:48,230 Like when weapons are only helped by a few folks, they're, 796 00:42:48,500 --> 00:42:50,540 they're only limitedly bad. 797 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,750 Um, but when you proliferate them across a whole population, 798 00:42:56,300 --> 00:43:00,950 things will happen, is that AI will generate a screenplay 799 00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:04,160 and then AI will make that. 800 00:43:07,020 --> 00:43:07,170 Mm-hmm. 801 00:43:07,470 --> 00:43:07,950 . Yeah. 802 00:43:07,955 --> 00:43:09,300 That, that, that'll happen. 803 00:43:09,420 --> 00:43:09,780 You know? 804 00:43:09,780 --> 00:43:17,070 So Will sure will be, will be inundated with Ai . It's just so 805 00:43:17,070 --> 00:43:21,390 we have to fi, we have to find some way to almost control it. 806 00:43:21,390 --> 00:43:24,630 Will we be punished by Google and others for using AI-based content? 807 00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:24,960 No. 808 00:43:25,795 --> 00:43:27,870 , they've, they've said that as long as it's interesting. 809 00:43:27,870 --> 00:43:28,320 Yeah, yeah. 810 00:43:28,650 --> 00:43:29,520 Useful. 811 00:43:29,610 --> 00:43:34,170 And, um, you know, I mean, I've always felt about SEO stuff. 812 00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:40,620 If it's entertaining, educational, um, and useful, then you'll, it doesn't 813 00:43:40,620 --> 00:43:44,790 matter whether it's AI generated or not, it will be indexed by Google. 814 00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:45,180 Simple 815 00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:45,480 as that. 816 00:43:46,485 --> 00:43:46,710 . Yeah. 817 00:43:46,860 --> 00:43:51,029 I mean, Google has its own AI that it's, uh, had for a long time, but 818 00:43:51,029 --> 00:43:54,990 they're trying to commercialize it and, um, or consumerize it. 819 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,310 Um, I think it would go against, against who they are as a product 820 00:43:59,310 --> 00:44:03,360 to start penalizing the thing that they're really good at. 821 00:44:03,450 --> 00:44:06,630 Um, but yeah, they have said that like if it's, if. 822 00:44:07,125 --> 00:44:12,555 If they detect a lot of ai, um, content in a piece, but it actually is really 823 00:44:12,555 --> 00:44:16,634 good content still, then it's gonna be elevated just like any other content. 824 00:44:16,725 --> 00:44:17,025 Sure. 825 00:44:17,205 --> 00:44:18,674 Which I think is the right answer. 826 00:44:18,674 --> 00:44:18,795 Mm-hmm. 827 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,045 , there's a lot of paranoia about that. 828 00:44:21,045 --> 00:44:22,835 Um, there's no evidence. 829 00:44:23,065 --> 00:44:27,895 That it would penalize you if you are producing genu genuinely useful content, 830 00:44:27,895 --> 00:44:29,515 which is relevant and everything. 831 00:44:30,145 --> 00:44:30,265 Mm-hmm. 832 00:44:30,465 --> 00:44:34,315 , but I have that paranoia as well that um, I think for example, 833 00:44:34,315 --> 00:44:38,515 chat, G p T always concludes with the word overall or something. 834 00:44:38,515 --> 00:44:41,755 It always says the same word and I always remove that in case 835 00:44:41,755 --> 00:44:43,855 Google makes, uses that as a clue. 836 00:44:43,885 --> 00:44:43,975 Mm-hmm. 837 00:44:44,215 --> 00:44:45,775 . But there is no real evidence. 838 00:44:45,775 --> 00:44:48,295 It just feels like you might get penalized. 839 00:44:48,295 --> 00:44:49,705 It feels like cheating doesn't. 840 00:44:50,395 --> 00:44:53,815 Yeah, well, it does, but you can also ask that G p t to, to write 841 00:44:53,815 --> 00:44:55,525 in the tone of voice of a human. 842 00:44:56,065 --> 00:44:56,335 Mm-hmm. 843 00:44:56,785 --> 00:45:00,565 . So, you know, if you, if you, that's why we have tone of voices and we're, and one, 844 00:45:00,565 --> 00:45:05,485 one of the things that I use it for as well, particularly my own plugin, because 845 00:45:05,485 --> 00:45:09,475 obviously I've got instant access to it in millions of words, is translation. 846 00:45:09,595 --> 00:45:14,775 You know, I, I can say, Here's this paragraph, write this in French, or write 847 00:45:14,775 --> 00:45:16,335 it in German or write it in Hungarian. 848 00:45:16,575 --> 00:45:17,115 That's nice. 849 00:45:17,265 --> 00:45:17,505 Yeah. 850 00:45:17,545 --> 00:45:20,325 And, and it, it does it, so it's, you know, it's pretty 851 00:45:20,325 --> 00:45:21,555 useful for that kind of stuff. 852 00:45:21,555 --> 00:45:28,275 So it's, it's multi, multi-language universal and, um, is a solution, 853 00:45:28,335 --> 00:45:30,105 uh, is a global solution basically. 854 00:45:30,285 --> 00:45:34,065 And even Japanese, you know, it will open ai. 855 00:45:34,185 --> 00:45:34,965 Is, is. 856 00:45:36,149 --> 00:45:37,470 For languages as well. 857 00:45:37,609 --> 00:45:43,680 So it helps translation people, helps, um, uh, understanding, uh, 858 00:45:43,919 --> 00:45:45,390 cultural understanding as well. 859 00:45:45,390 --> 00:45:48,810 You know, say say, I wanna write a letter to my girlfriend who's Polish, 860 00:45:48,810 --> 00:45:50,370 but I wanna write it in Polish. 861 00:45:52,529 --> 00:45:53,339 Track it into. 862 00:45:54,015 --> 00:45:56,505 A rephrase, say, write this in Polish, please. 863 00:45:56,509 --> 00:45:56,895 You know? 864 00:45:56,985 --> 00:45:57,944 Yeah, yeah. 865 00:45:57,944 --> 00:46:00,095 And then get in Polish as 866 00:46:00,095 --> 00:46:00,255 well. 867 00:46:00,884 --> 00:46:01,395 Yeah. 868 00:46:01,634 --> 00:46:05,595 Regarding, uh, universities, um, I mean, that's a little bit of my example. 869 00:46:05,685 --> 00:46:10,005 It wasn't it my, my, um, my daughter's high school essentially, but not 870 00:46:10,009 --> 00:46:13,305 universities, but like, they have had plagiarism detectors for a 871 00:46:13,310 --> 00:46:15,255 really long time, uh, at Univers. 872 00:46:15,255 --> 00:46:16,725 I, I, I used to teach. 873 00:46:16,785 --> 00:46:21,565 Um, and, um, Plagiarism detectors have been around for forever, and 874 00:46:21,565 --> 00:46:22,975 they're gonna continue to be that way. 875 00:46:23,245 --> 00:46:26,875 But, uh, one thing I've heard more and more common from, from teachers 876 00:46:26,875 --> 00:46:32,335 is that they won't be assigning essays, um, to, to write, uh, outside 877 00:46:32,335 --> 00:46:34,674 of the classroom, uh, much anymore. 878 00:46:35,005 --> 00:46:35,365 Great idea. 879 00:46:35,815 --> 00:46:39,475 You wanna do, uh, an essay, it's gonna be 30 minutes at your. 880 00:46:39,834 --> 00:46:40,645 in the classroom. 881 00:46:41,095 --> 00:46:46,855 Um, and, uh, and that's it, you know, uh, no screens, no, no, uh, mobile phones. 882 00:46:46,884 --> 00:46:51,685 I ha I I did install Microsoft Bing on my phone, uh, because I got access 883 00:46:51,685 --> 00:46:55,524 to the, to the Bing AI bot, and I tried it out just this morning. 884 00:46:55,915 --> 00:46:59,154 Um, and it's really cool just having a little AI bot on my phone. 885 00:46:59,185 --> 00:47:03,145 Um, but, um, if I've taken a test, not so much 886 00:47:03,205 --> 00:47:07,555 so, but when I was at school, we didn't, I mean, we all our, we didn't do this 887 00:47:07,555 --> 00:47:13,005 kind of, um, You know, the, the, you get assessed now, there's part that's 888 00:47:13,005 --> 00:47:18,045 like 60% or 70% of your, your SATs or whatever it may be, or your exams. 889 00:47:18,255 --> 00:47:18,975 We didn't do that. 890 00:47:18,975 --> 00:47:22,424 We, we sat down, you know, I'm, I'm old, so when I was at school 891 00:47:22,424 --> 00:47:26,924 we did sit down for an hour and write an essay on such and such. 892 00:47:26,930 --> 00:47:27,025 Yeah. 893 00:47:27,029 --> 00:47:27,555 And that was it. 894 00:47:27,645 --> 00:47:27,884 Yeah. 895 00:47:28,125 --> 00:47:29,265 And that's what you got marked on. 896 00:47:29,265 --> 00:47:32,265 So maybe we are going back to the old school way of doing stuff cause of that. 897 00:47:33,359 --> 00:47:34,080 Absolutely. 898 00:47:34,140 --> 00:47:34,500 Yeah. 899 00:47:34,770 --> 00:47:36,600 Um, cool, cool. 900 00:47:36,629 --> 00:47:44,160 So next and last segment is, um, what is your best advice for new plug-in 901 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,120 shop owners who are considering, uh, AI in one form or another? 902 00:47:48,629 --> 00:47:49,560 Um, Andrew. 903 00:47:50,839 --> 00:47:55,845 Um, , train it on your documentation for a start. 904 00:47:55,904 --> 00:47:58,964 Write good docs and then train it on documentation that will save 905 00:47:58,964 --> 00:48:04,455 you a lot of time in support, um, to get rid of the what, what some 906 00:48:04,455 --> 00:48:05,924 people regard as stupid questions. 907 00:48:05,930 --> 00:48:08,955 I don't think there's ever a stupid question in, in WordPress, but, you know, 908 00:48:09,075 --> 00:48:13,935 so to get rid of the, the, the low level questions, let's low hanging, low level, 909 00:48:14,295 --> 00:48:16,365 low hanging fruit, get rid of it for that. 910 00:48:16,694 --> 00:48:18,555 Um, use it for writing. 911 00:48:19,245 --> 00:48:23,415 Better content to better describe your plugin solution. 912 00:48:23,985 --> 00:48:28,965 Um, and also use it for maybe evaluating your plugin code as well. 913 00:48:28,965 --> 00:48:33,015 You know, certainly with open AI codex, you can throw it into there and say, 914 00:48:33,020 --> 00:48:35,265 you know, what mistakes have I made? 915 00:48:35,265 --> 00:48:36,645 Or Can you reexamine this code? 916 00:48:36,645 --> 00:48:42,660 And it'll, it'll tell you where maybe you've, um, Left an open bracket or 917 00:48:42,660 --> 00:48:46,770 closed bracket or whatever, you know, it'll just, or your syntax isn't quite 918 00:48:46,770 --> 00:48:48,630 correct or you've got a loop wrong. 919 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,670 You know, specifically in Woo Commerce. 920 00:48:50,670 --> 00:48:53,760 You know, Katie knows if you get a Woo commerce loop wrong, it's like a 921 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,430 nightmare to fix it and find it, you know? 922 00:48:57,090 --> 00:49:00,600 So you use it to your best advantage and, and. 923 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,690 Have no guilt about using it. 924 00:49:03,690 --> 00:49:05,430 You know, just use it as another tool. 925 00:49:05,430 --> 00:49:13,770 Use it as we all use tools, um, and, uh, AI is a great tool to help you improve 926 00:49:13,770 --> 00:49:15,480 your business and your productivity. 927 00:49:16,170 --> 00:49:16,680 Excellent, 928 00:49:17,509 --> 00:49:18,069 Katie. 929 00:49:20,205 --> 00:49:26,415 Um, my advice is to be positive and embrace it as a genuine opportunity 930 00:49:26,415 --> 00:49:28,305 to make your business more successful. 931 00:49:28,575 --> 00:49:32,205 Uh, think creatively about the different ways, cuz there are really 932 00:49:32,205 --> 00:49:35,985 a wealth of different opportunities, um, that you probably haven't 933 00:49:36,045 --> 00:49:40,185 thought of that you can incorporate into your processes and possibly 934 00:49:40,185 --> 00:49:42,134 even your future products as well. 935 00:49:42,495 --> 00:49:44,145 Um, but don't. 936 00:49:44,919 --> 00:49:47,049 as a sticking plaster for bad work. 937 00:49:47,049 --> 00:49:48,520 Don't use it to be lazy. 938 00:49:48,524 --> 00:49:48,680 Mm-hmm. 939 00:49:48,765 --> 00:49:51,430 , it's only a tool, it's only a starting point. 940 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:52,000 Mm-hmm. 941 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,399 , you still need to, uh, finish it off. 942 00:49:54,580 --> 00:49:57,790 Put your own unique knowledge about your product into it, 943 00:49:57,850 --> 00:49:59,950 and don't rely on it too much. 944 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,899 It's all about getting the right balance. 945 00:50:02,985 --> 00:50:03,645 Excellent. 946 00:50:03,795 --> 00:50:04,935 Really good advice. 947 00:50:05,505 --> 00:50:10,905 Um, I think my best advice, um, is to dig into the APIs because there's a lot 948 00:50:10,905 --> 00:50:12,705 of power in there from what I can see. 949 00:50:12,765 --> 00:50:16,455 And I do think a lot of the opportunity is being able to leverage them if 950 00:50:16,460 --> 00:50:17,985 at all possible in your products. 951 00:50:18,045 --> 00:50:22,215 Um, I don't wanna call it a gold rush, but like, essentially if your 952 00:50:22,215 --> 00:50:27,960 product has a good solid use case, not like, Tertiary, like this is just a 953 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,640 marketing employee kind of use case. 954 00:50:30,030 --> 00:50:33,960 Uh, if your product has a good use case for AI to be leveraged in the 955 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:38,010 product itself, jump into the APIs, get familiar with it, see what you 956 00:50:38,010 --> 00:50:41,820 can do immediately, because there is a lot of opportunity at the moment. 957 00:50:42,210 --> 00:50:46,080 Um, and if you get, get ahead of the game right now, um, then you might 958 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:47,520 be beating out some bigger players. 959 00:50:47,580 --> 00:50:51,450 Uh, honestly, um, cuz uh, it's harder to implement. 960 00:50:51,625 --> 00:50:55,255 Features like this in, in, uh, in the bigger products. 961 00:50:55,285 --> 00:51:00,115 Um, uh, there's, uh, you, you can be scrappy right now and 962 00:51:00,115 --> 00:51:02,145 get ahead of the game, so sure. 963 00:51:03,345 --> 00:51:03,975 Cool. 964 00:51:04,005 --> 00:51:06,645 Well that wraps us up for today. 965 00:51:06,645 --> 00:51:08,025 This was a great conversation. 966 00:51:08,055 --> 00:51:11,865 Um, went in lots of really interesting dir directions. 967 00:51:11,895 --> 00:51:14,235 Um, Katie, do we have things lined up? 968 00:51:14,235 --> 00:51:15,735 We we're actually a little bit behind still. 969 00:51:15,735 --> 00:51:17,115 Do we have somebody for next week? 970 00:51:17,745 --> 00:51:18,445 We do, don't we? 971 00:51:18,445 --> 00:51:18,925 We do. 972 00:51:19,035 --> 00:51:22,845 We have, and this is one of my favorite topics, marketing, and we have Alex. 973 00:51:22,945 --> 00:51:27,655 Denning from Ellipsis, who's one of the, that's right top people in marketing. 974 00:51:27,655 --> 00:51:31,195 And also because he works with so many product businesses to do 975 00:51:31,195 --> 00:51:34,735 their marketing, he has some really great insights as well as being a 976 00:51:34,735 --> 00:51:36,775 very thoughtful, strategic person. 977 00:51:37,015 --> 00:51:41,095 So he's very, um, definitely someone to, um, listen to next week. 978 00:51:42,165 --> 00:51:42,945 Absolutely. 979 00:51:43,035 --> 00:51:44,055 Uh, I love Alex. 980 00:51:44,055 --> 00:51:44,805 He's a great guy. 981 00:51:44,835 --> 00:51:46,365 I'm looking forward to that for sure. 982 00:51:46,785 --> 00:51:49,815 So Andrew, thanks so much for being here, everybody. 983 00:51:49,815 --> 00:51:49,995 Thank you. 984 00:51:50,505 --> 00:51:53,985 Do that fun YouTube stuff where you like hit the like button and the 985 00:51:54,384 --> 00:51:57,825 subscribe button and all that stuff and uh, we'll see you all next week. 986 00:51:57,855 --> 00:51:58,665 Thanks so much. 987 00:51:58,670 --> 00:51:59,025 Bye. 988 00:51:59,025 --> 00:51:59,545 Thanks. 989 00:51:59,545 --> 00:52:00,185 Appreciate it. 990 00:52:00,185 --> 00:52:00,505 Bye. 991 00:52:00,505 --> 00:52:00,825 Care.