Making A Comeback

What happens when a decades-old outdoor apparel brand changes ownership and has to make a comeback? Bonie Shupe, Refounder at Ibex, knows the answer to this question all too well. As an endurance athlete and textile and technical designer who was a long-time fan of Ibex, Bonie was tasked with reviving the brand. In this episode of Juicy Bits, we sat down with Bonie to find out exactly what it takes to both win back and build a community for a business dedicated to sustainability and innovation and what she does to keep at it day after day.

Show Notes

Learn more about Bonie's professional background here and explore the new Ibex here.

What is Juicy Bits?

We created Juicy Bits because we wanted to continue the conversations that we start out on the trail and on the chair lift. Hosted by our CEO Jen Gurecki and Ambassador Jillian Raymond, they talk candidly about everything from dude soup, to sex, to politics, to equity in the outdoors. We occasionally (read: frequently) drop F-bombs, interview some of the most interesting people in the outdoors and beyond, and say things that many of us think but don’t feel comfortable saying out loud. If you are easily offended or looking for something that is G Rated, this is not the podcast for you. But if you love truth-telling and irreverence, get ready to laugh, cry, and maybe pee your pants a little bit. 

Hello and welcome. I'm Jillian Raymond, the co creator of Juicy Bits and a coalesce and snow ambassador. And I'm Jen Gorecki, your cohost and the CEO of Coalition Snow. For those of you who are new, get ready to laugh, cry, and maybe pee your pants a little. Juicy Bits is about taking the conversations that we start on the chairlift and at the trailhead and bringing them to you to explore alternative narratives that challenge the status quo about what it means to be a modern woman in the outdoors. Grab your helmet, because sometimes it's a bumpy ride. FYI friends, this podcast is for mature audiences, so you've been warned. Let's get to work and juice the patriarchy.

Hi, everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Juicy Bits. This is Jen Gurecki, and I am here with a very special guest. We have Bonie Schupe, who is the Refounder and Head of Product at Ibex. Now, you might be asking yourself, what is a Refounder? I'm asking the same thing. We're going to find out what Bonnie does at Ibex and how she rebuilt that brand. We're going to hear about being an endurance athlete and ideally, get some insight for anybody who wants to break into the outdoor industry. But before we get started, Bonie, welcome to Juicy Bits.

Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here. I've been listening to your podcast, and I really appreciate the honest and refreshing conversations you guys have.

Thank you. I appreciate hearing that because sometimes when we put episodes out, I'm afraid people will stop listening. So it's good that you like it. I actually have an Ibex story for you. This is probably not going to surprise you just based on probably all the feedback you've gotten. I have an Ibex base layer that's probably 20 years old, at least. It has holes everywhere in it, like in the armpits all where I should not be wearing it in public, and yet I can't stop. I can't quit this Ibex base layer that I've had forever. And I feel like that people being so drawn to the brand, like, I'm not giving this up. I'm sure you've heard that before, and I think that's such a big part of Ibex, and I'm excited to hear more about it, but I just had to disclose that I do wear IBEX, and there's a huge hole in armpit, so you're welcome, and I'm sorry.

Yeah, no, that's a common theme. And I actually also have pieces that are that old from Ibex, especially now that I've become the Refounder. I have this problem with collecting pieces, so I've been collecting a lot of the great pieces from years ago just off of different sites. I hear you. I'm there.

Okay, so what is Refounder? That is a title that probably no other human has. What do you do as the Refounder? What does that mean?

When we first launched, it, was really just me. So the kind of the story goes that Ibex came to a point and they announced in 2018 that they were closing, and then they were bought by David and this New York fund, flower fund. What really happened is I received a message on LinkedIn, and it was, hey, I just bought this brand called Ibex. Would you like to have a conversation? And I was like, who owns Ibex? So I Googled it, looked it up, and ended up talking to them. And I was afraid of whenever you get people that just randomly buy brands or start new brands, you never know how their personality is going to be. So I ended up actually flying to New York to meet the founder or I mean, the owners of Ibacx and really just love David thought that we would be a good match, and from there, I was the Refounder. Not even kind of I refounded the brand. And so that's kind of the title that came with my position. For a little while, I was the GM, which was like, I was running the show. But recently, what I had decided that my job was way too big. And so I feel like as the refounder, I still get that Refunder CEO kind of mix of a job, except that I don't want the pressure of the GM role. So I've kind of been passing that off to my coworker Jordan, and I'm keeping the Refunder title. So that's kind of what that is.

Yeah, well, it's a great title. I love that you've handed off a lot of CEO things that you don't want to do. If you know, anybody who wants to come work for Coalition and take that off, my plate will hand that off easily. So just keep me in mind. Anyone, you know, who wants to do all the CEO stuff that I should not be doing. Right. You come talk. Because it's not great. Just because you're, like, entrepreneurial doesn't mean you want to do all of that. And that you're not necessarily good at it either, right? Like, just because you start something or you're good at branding, it doesn't mean that you should be the CEO. And it seems like your love for Ibex really comes in the product. And on the community side, do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Yes. For me, it's really about the product. And I've been an Ibex fan for a really long time. And so when they reached out to me originally, I was really just, like, over the moon. And then getting along with the owner and just finding my place here has just been just like, kind of a dream come true as far as jobs are concerned. And as I sat down and really tried to plan out what is Ibex's next steps and how do we grow this company, especially in a space where Marino is becoming so just like, part of everyone's day, and so many businesses are popping up. I've really embraced that, the Ibux mission of the art of wool. And so I spend a lot of my time really trying to innovate and push the boundaries of what we can do with this natural fiber, and that's really where I find most of my passion, and that's what I'm most excited about. And so I'm always just really excited for the next season and the season after, because some of these projects that I've been working on have been in the works for two years now. Yeah. So, like, the wool Air, I think, is actually a really good example. Yeah. I was just going to ask you what's coming out for winter 22, 23 that you're excited about that we should know about. Taking notes. Yeah, no, the wool air, we came out with that last year, and the goal with the wool air was really to look at that piece, historically what it was, and then try to bring it into the future. And so that piece today is roughly 30% lighter and 30% warmer than anything else on the market. I just went through that piece over multiple samples and just said, how can I cut weight? What can I do here to make this product even more, like, efficient with less? And I really am proud of that piece. It's really great, and I hope that that program grows. I think anyone that tries the boolean is really impressed with it. The warmth to weight ratio is just really, like, off the hook, and it's like a perfect backcountry skiing piece, perfect for hut trips, and I just, like, I really love it. And I think at the end of the day, too, one of the great things about working for Ibex is because I am an endurance athlete and I love to just get out, I'm really creating pieces for me. That's all that I do.

Also, all we're doing, the entire team at Coalition, we're just like, what do we want? Okay, we'll make that now. That should explain a lot, but yeah, I get it.

Yeah, totally. We just launched we're actually launching this week our spring rock running collection, which is another the shorts are another piece that we, you know, that was, like, something I was trying to solve for. I'm a long distance runner. I love to run, like, all day long, but in a normal short, just in a normal nylon short, which is usually really lightweight, though, after you sweat in it for hours and hours, I feel like it kind of feels like a diaper. And so I really wanted to solve for that. And so these shorts that are coming out are made of a knit material, and then they also have, like, a merino Tencel underwear in them, and they just move with you when you run. It's really nice. It's really awesome. And they just stay nice all day long. I'm pretty happy with those as well. I only run when things chase me. That is my rule. So do they look cute for, like, hanging out on the couch? Because that would be the only time I'd probably wear running shorts. Are they cute? Yes, they are cute. They make your legs look phenomenal, too. I worked on the curve at least three protocols.

These are the things I need to know, because running is not I mean, anyone who runs, I'm just like, wow, I'm so impressed because I think running is the most painful, awful thing. I don't know. I've been told there's this runner's high and people really get in. Like, you really get into this zone, and so I don't not believe you. But also, I've never once experienced that myself, so it's hard to believe that people enjoy running. But there's a lot of you. There's a lot of you.

Yeah, there's a lot of us. Yeah. You said something earlier that I feel I wanted to get back to. You were talking about bringing this product from the past and how can you bring it into the future? And I feel like outside of the product, that's what you had to do with the brand as well, that you had to take this heritage brand that had decades of a voice and a perspective in a community, and then with new ownership, and also just with times that change, like always, just sort of reevaluating the times that we live in and shifting demographics. One of the things you were tasked with as Refounder was sort of rebuilding the brand, which is certainly product based, but also it's a lot of values and storytelling and community. So what was that process like of rebuilding a heritage brand? Yeah, it's been quite a journey. When I first started and we launched, when we were looking to launch, and it was really just me to start, we sat down and I sat down with David and Flower funds, and we really outlined the values and what the mission of Ibex 1.0 was. They were huge advocates for the environment. I'm a huge advocate for the environment. They were innovators and merino wool. They really had a really strong community just within their employees and within their customer base. Customers just love them. Very cultishly love them. And we kind of outlined that, and we wanted to figure out, how do we bring that back, and then how do we thread that needle to relaunch this beloved brand in a way that we could bring the customers along with us. And I'm really so grateful to the customers that have stuck with us and actually stuck up for me. We started this Ibex Insiders page on Facebook just to give the customers a little bit of insight. And when we first launched in 2019, people were so disappointed because the product line had decreased so much. But we were relaunching the brand so we couldn't just start with 400 SKUs, which is what they ended with. So people were really disappointed, and some people were just mean, and there were a few other Ibex insiders that just stuck up for me, and they were like, hey, yo, back off. She's bringing back our brand, right? Yeah. So if you're upset that there's not enough products, okay, if she's not here, then there's zero. Zero. Yeah. So was that sort of the main issue, is that people just wanted to have more selection, or do you think people just wanted to they were just sad about the brand and needed to have something to talk about? I mean, it seems like such a random thing because I know what people get upset with us about. It's certainly bigger thing that just seems like minutiae to be unhappy that there's not four, you know, there's only 200 SKUs instead of 400. That's interesting.

Yeah, no, people get mad about lots of people get mad about a lot of things, right?

They do, definitely. I was just a designer before this, so I've grown thicker skin. I've definitely had to work on my leadership skills. It's been a journey. But people were really just mad that it wasn't the old Ibex and that I wasn't a part of the previous Ibex, which really wasn't my fault. I had applied many times, so that's on them, really. But I think people are coming around more, and they understand that it is like, I am relaunching this brand, and I'm trying to do it with as much love and community and really trying to grow this brand in a lot of the same ways that Ibex grew. I feel, like so lucky to have just such a really awesome core team at Ibex. Now we're really small still, and everyone just kind of pitches in, and they do a little bit of everything. Like, even my bookkeepers been doing, like, logistics stuff this weekend, and everyone just kind of jumps in and helps, and everyone is really excited to be a part of Ibex and grow. And so we really are building that same kind of community within the brand that I had before. So I'm hoping that people that were angry will eventually get on board, and even if they don't, don't.

I know I don't know if you have any sort of policy at Ibex. We have a policy at Coalition on firing customers. So, like, if people are abusive to our customer service team or to the people who are on our social, they'll get like we basically fire them. Like, we block them from our email, from our social. They get put on a list of, like, they can't buy from us because for me, it's part of ensuring the health and emotional safety of our team. Just also, no one deserves to be treated that way. And I think that, yes, just because you're a customer, just because you have money to spend, doesn't mean that you get to do whatever you want and that you're going to get whatever you want. So we have had to fire a few people, naughty people. They're nasty.

Yeah. I think the one statement that I've used more during Ibex than any time in my life is I have talked to customers and just said, time is our most valuable commodity. You cannot get it back. And this is how you're choosing to spend your time right now. And that's just like it.

Yes. I will never get back those ten minutes I just spent with you on the floor like, that. I'll never get that time back. Yeah, that is painful. When you're in those really, really difficult conversations with people, how do you keep your cool? Because you can't lose it on people and you can't meet them at their nastiness or frustrated. You have to be relatively declarative in your statements and you certainly don't need to endure, but you can't meet them. How have you learned to sort of manage some of those really difficult conversations?

Oh, man. I really just have to take a step back. I have meditated more. Same. I've been working on my meditation and yoga and trail running just like, as sanity more than ever before. Whereas it was always just something I did for fun, but it's now really just part of living a healthy life, right?

Yeah, definitely. I'm with you. Like, the last couple of years have been all about rest, of sleeping and then riding my bike or snowboarding during the winter and meditating and yoga and eating well, like, eating good food that's delicious. And if I can't do that, I've had to do that in order to deal with all the shit that comes your way, like, every single day. Whether it's just a supply chain, you're never getting the things that you're supposed to get. Oh, now go fix your cash flow. Oh, so this or that, and oh, here's a troll on social media. Like all this every day where you're like, this is what we do now. Okay, I'm going to just go, I'm going to put the clothes down the computer, go sit on my couch and just meditate and just try to Zen the fuck out because it's so demanding. So demanding.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. So you came into Ibex basically, like, a year before COVID So you were rebuilding a brand, you were in a new position, and then COVID hits. Okay, what has been the wildest scenario you've had to deal with that you never thought you would deal with in your professional life since you started this position?

Oh, man, it's so hard to choose. There's been so many. But COVID changed everything, right? So we launched. Everything was going great when COVID hit, actually, I was on a ski tour. I went with a friend and we skied from Aspen and Vale. And when we got to Veil, we were skiing down and we saw all these signs for Covet. We were like, what's going on? What happened? And that was the day that they closed all the resorts. I, at that moment, didn't think that it was going to affect our supply chain as much as it has. Right. I mean, it really has affected every part of the supply chain and from just even like you would think, like, sourcing. I mean, sourcing was an issue and transportation of all of your materials was an issue. But even with the safety of everyone working on our products, we were doing evaluations by photo, and you couldn't even go into the factories. And some factories stayed open and they closed down and they just kind of all lived together. It was crazy to deal with all of that and to think about it every day and just you want to protect everyone that's working for you. Yeah. It's just been crazy. I don't know if I could pick out just one scenario. I don't know if you feel the same, but I feel like we're still dealing with supply chain transportation, certainly just people's mental health and how it traumatized people and how that impacts workplaces and customers and community and events. And it's really just been something to navigate. And certainly I feel very privileged and fortunate to be able to run a remote team and continued our ecommerce side of things and be healthy. And so, you know, there's a lot of people who suffered tremendously, but certainly the impact on business, and as somebody who runs a business that's not getting any better. Now we get all of our beanies. This is a funny story that I'm going to share, but we get all our beanies from Italy and our beanie supplier. The first year the beanies turned out just absolutely beautiful. And the second year, he had COVID twice during the time, and he's just a small manufacturer. And the second time he got COVID. I was like, kept following up, and I'm like, come on, where's our BDS? And finally he sends me a picture of him in the hospital. And he was like, Bonie, I'm so serious. I am so, so sorry. And at that moment, I'm like, okay, like, nothing else matters. Yeah. And, you know, we have our beanies. They're a year late, but they're here. And that's the way it is. You will get beanies when we get them. You will get your skis when we get them. And I can't feel bad about any of it because we have literally no control. There's nothing that any of us could be doing differently to change timelines or even, like, increase in cost and any of it. We have no control over all these things. And you just have to go through each day being like, all right, well, this is how this is going to go today, I guess. Okay. Yeah. Because so many curveballs are thrown at us every day. I just feel like, at the end of the day, I have to just like sit and like take a deep breath and just be full of gratitude for being in the place that I am because so many things are going wrong throughout the world that I'm just like, whoa, thank goodness. So much gratitude.

Yeah, same. So I want to get back to this endurance athlete thing because it's always fascinating to me to meet someone who has what I imagine is an incredibly demanding profession. You're not putting in a 40 hours work week. You are on, I'm sure, all the time. How do you balance being an endurance athlete, which means you are athletic, you're athletic all the time, also training, pushing yourself there and then also doing the same in your professional life. How do those two work together or not work together or balance each other out?

Yes, I mean, they don't really work together all that well. But again, I feel like a lot of gratitude for where I live. Right. We're really lucky to be able to live in beautiful spaces. So I am up in Netherlands, Colorado, and I'm backed by National Forest, and I can really just like right after this podcast, for example, I'm going to leave and go on the eleven-mile run that's right out my back door. And that is the convenience is just I feel so much gratitude for that. And then I think for me, mostly during the week, I'm keeping my runs pretty minimal. And then on the weekends, I do like one what I call as my sanity run a weekend which one of my coworkers was just calling me out on the fact that I sit on top of the Continental Divide and answer email.

But it is still like a really nice, it's a nice long run. So I just fit it in when I can. Yes, I definitely get that. I find that because you do work for me, I would say I probably work seven days a week. Like, certainly Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday are like much bigger days than what a Sunday would be. But I find that you're never fully off. But what helps me so much is getting outside, even if it's for that hour on a Wednesday morning, to go for a bike ride or go for a quick ski and maybe do something a little bit longer on a Friday. Like, I find just by carving out these little moments every day just makes a world of difference in allowing yourself to do that because it's so easy to think like, oh, look at my to do list. Look at this huge, look at all the lists. You all can't see this right now, but I'm literally holding up every single piece of paper that is a list of on you right now. Things I have to do. You could say to yourself, I have too many things to do. I can't go out, but I just know that if I don't get outside, even just for a little bit, four or five days a week, nothing on my list will get done.

Yeah, definitely. Well, and your attitude is just so much better. Right. 2022, for me is the year of self care because I really worked so hard to launch Ibex, and I was working crazy hours, and I actually ended up getting a dog during COVID because I was so worried about Ibex. And it had become my little baby, this little obsession that I wasn't keeping that work life balance that I really needed. But I know and then also just, like, really working on my leadership skills because I am in this position where I'm not just a designer anymore. I'm leading a team and creating a community. I have gotten feedback from all of all of my employees. I'm just like, what is going to make me a better leader? And they're like, if you get out, if you get 8 hours of sleep, everything is always better when you've done those things. Just your body, you're a nicer person when you're rested and you move your body. Yes. Everyone is a better person when you get it. Yeah. And just trying to create a good, balanced culture with everyone just ensuring that the entire team is getting out and doing the same things too, I think it's really important. One thing that I have done recently is when I'm interviewing new people, I try to do hike interviews rather than just, like, getting on the phone. And that's really nice because that's just a hiking and you're getting something done.

Yeah, for sure. So are you taking them out on the hike or you're hiking? No, I take them with me on the hike. I have them show up in Ned and we go on a hike. What if they don't hike? Well, are you ever worried that they're going to be intimidated that they're hiking with an athlete, or does it matter? The hike out in my backyard is very easy. Okay, so it's like more like walking, but you're on dirt, so that we call it a hike. Yes, definitely. Yeah. That's impressive. I don't know if I would want to meet people in real life for first interviews, necessarily. Well, I definitely do, like, an initial quick call. Okay. But if I'm going to interview someone and get them on if they're getting on my team, then I try to have them come up and hike with my team.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And that's also, like, if that's part of the culture of IBEX, and this actually segues perfectly into what I want to talk about next, which is, like, breaking into the industry or getting jobs. I know that for us, so much a part of hiring is above and beyond your skill set. It's like, would you fit into the culture of the company? And every single company is different, and so we're looking at who knows about the culture of Coalition, how we show up, the things that we believe in. For example, if you're easily offended by four letter words, you may not fit in the culture of Coalition. So that means definitely a really important part and also just giving people an opportunity for them to decide, is this a culture that I feel comfortable in? Is this where I want to be? So this kind of leads into my next to my next question is, beyond people who might want to work at Ibex, you've had such this long history in the outdoor industry. What advice would you give to people who are either trying to break into the industry or level up? Any thoughts on that?

Just be yourself. I think there's been a lot of times in my life where I really thought I wanted to be somewhere. And in the end, just being my authentic self has led me down the path that I need to be in. And that's just, like, I feel like that's shine through, especially, like, right now where I'm at in life, just being myself and, like, being true to what really brings you the most passion, because you're going to spend more time focused on the things that you're most passionate about. And so for me, that is natural fibers and wool. And even though I've worked for a ton of different brands, that was always just like, an interest for me. And I always, you know, and then in the end, I just got a LinkedIn message because I was just being myself and really just thinking about where I wanted to be and really focusing my energy there. Yeah, well, and you said earlier that you had applied to Ibex previously, and you never were hired, and I think that says a lot about staying your course and you're not going to always get that job, but that doesn't mean that things won't be different down the line. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. You know, just continuing to hone your skills until one day you are hireable, and it takes a long time. I think back to what I knew about things like 20 years ago, so that would have put me at 25 and what I know, it's just more years on this planet, and you just continue to get better and better and better. I want to keep putting out into the world that aging is a very, very good thing. Be excited about aging. Be excited every single year a birthday comes around. I mean, let's be honest, it's one more year on this planet. Like, what a gift to still be alive. But also just there's so much that comes with more time and being really focused on the things that you care about and just knowing that you're going through this process, that takes time. It just takes time to get to all the places where you want to get. And it as. Much as you want it to maybe happen quickly. Sometimes it does, but most of the time, if you really dig deep into people's stories, like people are spending a decade or more at really trying to get to the point where you first notice them. Yes, well, and I still haven't decided if I'm a late bloomer or if I've just been focused so much on what my passions were that it's like, you know, that I'm finally like, really? I mean, I am blooming, but I don't know if it's necessarily late bloomer as much as just age. I actually really enjoy getting older as well. I mean, I don't look back at my twentiess and think, oh, gosh, I wish I was there.

No, I mean, God bless 20 year olds. You all have a lot going for you. I'll make a list of all the things people in their twenty s and thirty s have going for them. But man would not want to go back. No, not at all. It's hard, even though we've been talking a lot about how difficult things are, but it actually does feel as you age that a lot of other things get easier, though.

Yeah, I mean, I fully agree. Just feeling secure, waking up and knowing that you're just like, oh, I'm me, I like myself. That's huge, right? Yeah. This is what I do with my life, and I am content. What an incredible feeling to be able to experience contentment. I have enough. I am content with my life. Yes. I mean, that's everything to me, if you ask me.

Yeah, totally. I feel the same way. So, Bonie, I have one last question for you, which is more I mean, it's kind of a question, kind of not, but I always like to end when I have a guest on is like, what's the thing that you really want to talk about that either we didn't talk about today or that you never get asked in interviews that you wish you would get asked. This is your moment, this is your time of anything that you really want to talk about that you haven't been able to in our time together or in general.

Okay. So while Bonie is thinking about the answer to my question, which it's not an easy question to answer, so we're going to give her some time. But one of the things for all of you, as our listeners, always feel bad for you, because when I stop recording, I normally have some of the most incredible conversations with our guests or with Jillian, and my conversation with Bonie when we were done recording did not disappoint. And so I'm going to give all of you I just have to share a little bit about it. So I had asked Bonie how she felt about the recording, and she said that she felt good, but that it wasn't as funny as to cough or not to cough. So I was both pleased that Bonnie had listened to that episode about whether or not I'm a cougar, also a bit mortified. And then we launched into this incredible conversation as women who are in our mid 40s about how young and vibrant we feel. And half the time when we're in rooms with other people, we think everyone else is older than us, and then we find out we're the older ones. And it was just a lovely conversation that I wanted to share with all of you about aging and how good it feels and the vibrancy and the strength that we have. And maybe that's why I think it's appropriate to date people who are up to 20 years longer than me. I don't know. No one knows. But thanks, Bonie, for that little side chat afterwards. And now let's get back to your answer to my question.

Okay. I think it would be the reason why Ibex is so focused on sustainability. I spend so much time in nature that I understand the delicate balance of life right. Yeah. And how every living thing is really a delicate balance, whether you're fishing in Wyoming. Like, I remember once when I was first learning to fly fish, and we were up on this river and everything looked perfect, all the bugs were there, everything we should have been catching fish, but it was just overfetched in the end. It was like, oh, this is overfetched, or just watching the climate change through the years, if you're just anywhere in nature and base and you've watched climate change happen. I think that I'm not a sustainability expert, so I don't get to talk about it enough. But I feel like that is one of the things that IMX is really focused on, is our sustainability efforts, even though we are a small company. And I think other brands are really focused on that too. But most often it's handed to people. They say, okay, this is our sustainable mission. But what I hope for the world is that we all and people ask me another question, too, of how do you feel about all these people that are moving to Colorado? Right. And all the congestion on the trails? Doesn't that and I have friends that are just like, so sick of it. And to me, it's just like, well, these are more people connecting with nature every day. And so I'm the person that is on the top of the peak. And I give everybody the tips on how to see even more of Colorado because I want more people connected. Because when we all connect in nature. Then we're all going to be more conscious and aware of. Like. What we're putting on our body and what these companies are doing to have less impact on the world. So I think that would be the question. Yeah. Well, honestly, you don't have to be an expert in sustainability to know that there's something not going right in our environment and that there are things that individuals, to corporations, to governments, to global communities can do about it. So you don't have to be an expert. You just have to be a person who is passionate about it and wants to make a difference. So sounds like you get to do so many of those things. From whether you're hiking out your back door, designing a new product, or having conversations with your community, you get to bring all those things together. Yeah.

Bonie, thank you so much for joining us on Juicy Bits. It's been lovely to get to meet you and talk to you, and I hope everyone will go out and check out. IBEX will be putting the website and the Instagram in the show notes, so make sure you look at that. And Bonnie? Yeah? Thanks for joining us.

Yeah, thanks for having me on. My pleasure.