1
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Velkommen til Sidelinja, podkasten for politisk hjemløse.

2
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Og for de som ikke får nok kulturkrig.

3
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Rundt bor i dag kulturkriger Trond Sørensen, Åstin

4
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Rasmussen fra Republicans Abroad Norge, og meg selv,

5
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Vegard Nattnes.

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Velkommen tilbake, Åstin.

7
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Takk.

8
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Vi kjører jo samme greia som vi gjorde

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sist, du er mest komfortabel på engelsk, og

10
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vi kjører norsk, fordi vi er litt skråtete

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på engelsk, i hvert fall når vi skal

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være precise.

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Ja, ikke sant?

14
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Og det er noe med det poenget er

15
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å snakke, og få sagt det man ønsker

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å si, og så tror jeg at det

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er veldig få som hører på dette som

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ikke kan begge språk.

19
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Så da får vi være språkforvirret, og så

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kommer vi sikkert til å, til og med

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å begynne å snakke litt engelsk innimellom.

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Det finnes til og med gamle folk over

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åtte som har lært seg engelsk, har jeg

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funnet ut.

25
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Ja, det er ikke mange av dem, men

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de finnes.

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Jeg hadde en mor, jeg husker min mor

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skulle til USA, jeg var midt på 80

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-tallet, og hun er født i 42, og

30
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da var det halvt år før jeg begynte

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å kjøpe sånne der selvstudier med engelsk, med

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kassetter og sånt, og hun spilte og lærte

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seg engelsk før hun skulle på ferie.

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Da kunne hun si, I am a boy.

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Ja, hun var opptrent på det.

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Hun fikk bestille seg mat, og det tror

37
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jeg var bra.

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Ok, bakteppet for å snakke med deg, Austin,

39
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er jo selvfølgelig det litt mørke som skjedde

40
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i USA her, drapet på Charlie Kirk, og

41
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det er jo interessant, kjente du ham, eller

42
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kjente til ham?

43
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Jeg har følget ham i mindre enn 10

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år.

45
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Jeg har ingen personlig konneksjon til ham, men

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jeg har sikkert sett hans forandring i karrieret

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og organisasjonen han har bygget i ganske lang

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tid.

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Jeg skulle si, i de første fem årene

50
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trodde jeg ikke så mye av ham.

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Jeg tror ikke jeg var hans target audience.

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Men som det er med mange mennesker i

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hans profession, jeg delte mye av hans verdier,

54
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og selv om jeg ikke har vært hans

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target audience var jeg glad han gjorde hva

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han gjorde.

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Jeg tror han brukte mye positiv utvikling rundt

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kollegiske debatter på universitetskampene.

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Da han ble åldre, og da jeg ble

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åldre, han var 5 år yngre enn meg,

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jeg skulle si i de siste 5 årene

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har jeg virkelig fulgt ham.

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Jeg så en av hans debatter på telefonen,

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da nyheten gikk over notifikasjonen han hadde fått.

65
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Så her ser jeg en debatt som nok

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skjedde en år siden, eller 6 måneder siden,

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og da jeg ser ham, ser jeg nyheten

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gå over telefonen.

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Og det var faktisk ganske surrealt.

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Det var litt sprøtt, og så var selvfølgelig

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reaksjonene sprø også.

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Litt absurd å følge med på, for det

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er liksom, mennesker er skutt, og det ser

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alvorlig ut, og så begynner man å vitse

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med det.

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Det som har slått meg, og det som

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hadde vært interessant å høre fra deg var,

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han har jo blitt bokstavlig talt svartmål til

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Norge, som en ekstremist, eller en langt ut

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på fløyen.

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Anders Behring Breivik.

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Ja, ikke sant?

83
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Som er helt vanvittig.

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Men som deg, så har jeg ikke fulgt

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ham tett, men jeg har sett ham i

86
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mange år.

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Fått opp noen klipp, og sett en og

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annen debatt.

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Og min subjektiv opplevelse av det, er at

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han har fylt en konstruktiv rolle.

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Det kan gå til at han hadde enkeltstå

92
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steder som var ekstreme, eller utenfor, eller hva

93
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du vil.

94
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Men det er liksom helt åpenbart for meg,

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at han verken er rasistisk, eller seksistisk, eller

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noe annet.

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Han har litt konservative synspunkter på en del

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ting.

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Han er en konstruktiv debattant, han tar debatten

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åpent, han møter folk i øyehøyde, som er

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litt vanlig å si.

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Og jeg er litt opptatt av å få

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fram den funksjonen han har spilt i kulturen,

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og i deres bevegelser, altså republikanene i USA.

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De som diskuterte Charlie Kirk den dagen før,

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eller den dagen etter, eller de dagene til

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nå, hadde enten aldri hørt om Charlie Kirk

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før han ble mordt, eller hadde kanskje hørt

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om ham i forhold, men hadde ingen realitet

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om hvem han var.

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Så da var det litt som å kramme

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for eksampen i universitetet et par tider før

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du må ta det, og så vise deg

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som om du er den eksperten på det

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spørsmålet.

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Og jeg tror at litmustestet for det er

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hvordan han har blitt framt i det norske

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medielandskapet.

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For faktet er, at hvis du hadde noen

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forståelse om republikanene i USA, eller bare konservativer

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i generelt, så skulle du også forstå at

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Charlie Kirk var faktisk en ganske moderat republikan,

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en ganske moderat konservativ, i den måten at

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hans verdier hadde blitt delt som en standard

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utgangspunkt på hva konservative republikanske verdier er.

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Selvfølgelig med tro på kyrken og Gud, kyrke,

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men også om familieverdiene, og virkelig bare den

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standardbaseringen på hva det er å være en

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republikan.

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Så å bare malte han i dette livet

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at han var en rasist, han har ikke

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ennå, over årene, og du kan finne mange

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spørsmål og snakker som han har hatt, hvor

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han åpenbart sa at han ikke ennå trodde

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i konseptet av ras.

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Han trodde at ras var en sosial konstrukt

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på den måten vi trenger det i dag.

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Og det er mange publiske tilfeller hvor han

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ble oppført av noen i lgbt-kommunen, og

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i hver fall kan du se at han

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har velkommen dem med åpne arme a.

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til å diskutere ham, eller b.

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til bevegelsen selv.

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Han hadde veldig mye åpnet døren for noen

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som skulle komme og kjempe for tradisjonelle konservative

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verdier, og han hadde et åpnet døren for

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de som ville diskutere ham på disse temaene.

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Det som var mitt subjektive inntrykk var at

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hver gang han møtte noen som var en

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nominell meningsmotstander, og spesielt hvis du var svart

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eller trans eller et eller annet sånt, så

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ble du møtt med en ganske sånn betydelig

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omsorg.

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Han la et par lag med vatt rundt

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for å behandle deg ordentlig, og høre deg

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ut og hele den greia der.

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For meg, de bruker det der sitatet om

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svarte piloter og sånt, og det har vi

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i og for seg forklart før, men driver

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det ut av sin kontekst, og så etterlater

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et inntrykk at han var rasistisk.

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Det var nøyaktig, 180 grader motsatt, ikke sant?

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Hvis noen, selv en annen svart person, i

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den situasjonen hvor du vet at strukturen er

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der for å glede seg på grunn av

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fargens farge, så trenger du å undre instinktivt

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om den personen er kvalifisert til å være

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der eller om det burde være noen annen

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som var mer tilgjengelig.

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Det er ikke en rasistisk poeng å gjøre.

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Det er en naturlig, tror jeg, respons til

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systemene han diskuterte.

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Systemene som ble implementert som gav preferensbehandling basert

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på rasismen.

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Han advokerte for avgjørelse av sånne policy, fordi

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han trodde det var bedre at folk ble

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behandlet basert på merittet av sin individuelle karakter,

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i stedet for immutable karakteristikker som ingen kan

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forvandle.

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Det er også interessant, man ser jo i

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disse viralklippene fra Kirk, og det er jo

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gjerne et eller annet lite uttrykk av debatter

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med ulike, men du ser jo de som

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kommer inn med dette synspunktet for DEI eller

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kvotering, eller hva det er for noe, ofte

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ikke skjønner implikasjonene av policyen de argumenterer for.

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Så du ser liksom, han må hver gang

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forklare dette er konsekvensene, ikke sant?

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Og du må bruke litt tid på å

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forklare at jo, du diskriminerer faktisk basert på

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hudfargen din.

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Sånn er det helt absolutt.

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For en kvinne i denne posisjonen er det

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ikke nødvendigvis å forstå at hun ikke er

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kvalifisert, men det er stadig en spørsmål, er

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hun der for å fylle den kvoten, eller

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var hun der fordi hun faktisk er kvalifisert

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til å sitte i denne posisjonen?

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Og det er det disse typer av policyer

200
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gjør, de instillerer disse spørsmålene i menneskene, av

201
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alle om disse situasjonene.

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En annen kvote som jeg vil si er

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nok den mest abuserte kvote i eftermiddelen, var

204
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hvor han diskuterer at han ikke liker ordet

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empati, og han sier at han synes at

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empati er et nyårsord som gjør mye smerter,

207
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og de bare bruker den delen av kvoten.

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De gir ikke noe mer kontekst.

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Hvis du skulle lese det i sin helhet,

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går han på til å si at jeg

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synes at empati er et mye mer passende

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ord.

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Empati betyr at du føler hva noen annen

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føler, men du kan ikke muligvis føle hva

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en annen person føler.

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Empati er et mye mer passende ord til

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å bruke når du sympatiserer med en annen

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person.

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Jeg uttaler kvoten selv, men det er poenget,

220
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at han kontrasterte ordet empati til sympati, og

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når du har den tilgjengelige konteksten, så lytter

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det ikke så hjemmeløst og kjærlig som det

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er når du bare gir teksten til den

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første delen av denne uttrykken.

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Litt til reaksjonene i USA, for en av

226
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de tingene jeg har sett en god del

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av de siste døgnene, er at det settes

228
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opp små minnesmerker med noen blomster og et

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lys og noen bilder og sånn, og så

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kommer det noen fra den tolerante siden og

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sparker og ødelegger dette her.

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Jeg synes jo det er ille å se

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på det i Norge, altså hvordan man håndterer

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dette på, men det ser ut som du

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har en ganske stor komponent i USA også,

236
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som rett og slett ikke behandler dette med

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en særlig verdighet.

238
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Ja, så lenge det gjelder for å se

239
00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,220
hvordan individene og memorialene går, men også i

240
00:11:01,220 --> 00:11:04,360
den veien, er det å se denne åpne

241
00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,800
masse-feiringen av døgnet.

242
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,780
Det var en nydelig poll som ble løst

243
00:11:09,780 --> 00:11:16,780
av YouGov som møtte republikanske demokrater forløp eller

244
00:11:17,700 --> 00:11:21,040
rasjonalisering eller justifikasjon for politisk violens, og det

245
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:22,820
var en serie spørsmål som ble spurt.

246
00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:29,180
Og demokrater var 4-6 ganger mer likelige

247
00:11:29,180 --> 00:11:31,800
til å si at politisk violens er akseptabelt,

248
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,100
og at politisk violens kan bli feiret.

249
00:11:35,380 --> 00:11:37,560
4-6 ganger mer likelige enn republikaner.

250
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:40,220
Republikanerne var i de nære, enkelte digitene, 4

251
00:11:40,220 --> 00:11:42,940
% sa ja til disse spørsmålene, eller 5%,

252
00:11:42,940 --> 00:11:44,640
som fortsatt er 4-5% for høyt

253
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,380
selvfølgelig, men det var oppe i 20-tallet

254
00:11:47,380 --> 00:11:48,160
for demokrater.

255
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,740
Det er ikke en mindre del, men det

256
00:11:52,740 --> 00:11:56,020
hjelper også å fortelle oss at en majoritet

257
00:11:56,020 --> 00:11:58,880
av demokrater ikke støtter dette, og en majoritet

258
00:11:58,880 --> 00:11:59,960
av republikanere ikke heller.

259
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,980
Disse menneskene som har en plattform for å

260
00:12:02,980 --> 00:12:05,280
snakke veldig lydelig, og fordi det er så

261
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,180
utrolig og kontroversielt, får det mye oppmærksomhet.

262
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:11,800
Vi er...

263
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,640
Jeg lytte til en av dine episoder nødvendigvis

264
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,800
om dette eventet, og jeg tror at det

265
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,260
var deg som brukte opp Konstantin Kissen, og

266
00:12:20,260 --> 00:12:23,560
hvordan han artikulerte det, og jeg så på

267
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:27,260
det, og jeg tenker at jeg har vært

268
00:12:27,260 --> 00:12:29,920
en nyheter, og politisk aktiv, i hele min

269
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,100
adultliv, og kanskje også i min adolescens.

270
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,460
Så jeg er ganske nødvendig for nødvendige eventer.

271
00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,680
Det tar mye å løpe meg rundt inntil.

272
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,540
Men i sammenhengen han gjorde at han ikke

273
00:12:43,540 --> 00:12:45,820
kunne huske den siste gangen han følte denne

274
00:12:45,820 --> 00:12:46,460
måten siden den 11.

275
00:12:46,460 --> 00:12:46,700
september.

276
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,460
Og jeg kan si at jeg gjerne deler

277
00:12:49,460 --> 00:12:52,680
denne artikuleringen, denne interne følelsen.

278
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,180
Dette hadde en effekt på meg selv.

279
00:12:55,460 --> 00:12:57,540
Jeg følte for dager etter at jeg var

280
00:12:57,540 --> 00:12:58,640
virkelig opptatt av dette.

281
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,760
Og jeg kan ikke huske at det har

282
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,660
hatt den samme effekten Jeg må si at

283
00:13:05,660 --> 00:13:07,220
jeg har noe av samme følelsen, og det

284
00:13:07,220 --> 00:13:10,340
er ikke nødvendigvis for drapet i seg selv,

285
00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:12,020
for det er sånn grusomme ting som skjer

286
00:13:12,020 --> 00:13:12,560
hele tiden.

287
00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:16,340
Men det er reaksjonene på det, at det

288
00:13:16,340 --> 00:13:18,620
sakte går opp for deg, hvor mange gærninger

289
00:13:18,620 --> 00:13:20,100
du deler samfunnet med.

290
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,940
Det er det som er problemet nå i

291
00:13:45,940 --> 00:13:46,040
USA.

292
00:13:46,340 --> 00:13:49,740
For det siste året har konservativene vært gassløse,

293
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,360
og den venstre har, til og med presidentielle

294
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,400
kandidater, og presidentene selv, til Joe Biden, tilbake

295
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,240
til Hillary Clinton, og da til og med

296
00:14:00,540 --> 00:14:05,380
mediepersonaliteter og tenkeledere i venstre, har helt normalisert

297
00:14:06,460 --> 00:14:11,520
dehumaniseringen og dæmoniseringen av konservativene sammen med den

298
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:17,940
generøse bruk av ord som nazi, bygget, utfordringer,

299
00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:19,960
alt dette.

300
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,620
La oss si at her i Norge, hvis

301
00:14:22,620 --> 00:14:26,340
vi ble fortalt fra toppen at Russland infiltrerte

302
00:14:26,340 --> 00:14:30,360
vårt regering og krosset bordet, og at vi

303
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,700
skulle forlore vårt land og vår demokrati, hvis

304
00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:37,660
jeg konsumerte denne typen innhold, nærmest eksklusivt, og

305
00:14:37,660 --> 00:14:42,240
trodde det, det skulle være en følelse av

306
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:43,860
nødvendighet til å ta opp armene og gjøre

307
00:14:43,860 --> 00:14:44,540
noe om det.

308
00:14:44,980 --> 00:14:47,120
Og jeg tror at det er i slutten

309
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,940
hva denne dehumaniseringen og den kontroversielle språken har

310
00:14:50,940 --> 00:14:53,340
gjort til mange mennesker over de siste 10

311
00:14:53,340 --> 00:14:53,540
årene.

312
00:14:53,940 --> 00:14:55,580
Det er jo et eller annet med at

313
00:14:55,580 --> 00:14:58,120
hvis du overbeviser noen om at dette er

314
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,440
Hitler, så er det jo ikke galt å

315
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:00,920
skyte Hitler.

316
00:15:02,380 --> 00:15:04,400
Hvis du tar ut Hitler, så slipper vi

317
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:04,560
2.

318
00:15:04,660 --> 00:15:04,980
verdenskrig.

319
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,520
Dette er en fyr som er du skjønner

320
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,100
at han har Karajan foran seg, selv om

321
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:11,640
han har gjort det bra i forklant.

322
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,100
Vi har bruket den retorikken over tid, så

323
00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:16,860
ja, du vil overbevise folk.

324
00:15:34,980 --> 00:15:37,600
Han ringte meg noen år siden med en

325
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,800
liste spørsmål og han vil bare kjøpe det

326
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:40,320
i munnen min.

327
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:44,640
Han var på vakasjon nederst nydelig, han var

328
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,520
med noen andre norske venner og han sa

329
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,520
der, nødvendigvis, mens de spilte på etter avslutningen,

330
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,340
at hans venner hadde rett til Charlie Kirk

331
00:15:54,340 --> 00:15:55,080
som Hitler.

332
00:15:55,780 --> 00:15:59,140
Det overrasket ham.

333
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,000
Han sa, jeg forstår ikke hvorfor det er

334
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,240
så mange norske venner som bare kan bruke

335
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,520
denne språket til å beskrive noen.

336
00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:07,840
Som om, a.

337
00:16:07,940 --> 00:16:09,520
om de virkelig tror på det, eller b.

338
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,200
om de virkelig ikke vet mye om Hitler.

339
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:13,700
Og hvis du tenker, dette er Hitler, hva

340
00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:14,640
har noen til hans rett?

341
00:16:15,220 --> 00:16:17,600
Jeg hadde en opplevelse for noen år siden,

342
00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:20,940
vi sto på gata for liberalistene på Karjohan,

343
00:16:21,020 --> 00:16:21,400
ikke sant?

344
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,240
Så kommer folk inn og da får du

345
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,860
en sånn temperaturmåling på folkedypet, om du vil.

346
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,640
Det er kanskje spesielt interesserte som går inn

347
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,540
om valg, både på Karjohan, men like fullt

348
00:16:31,540 --> 00:16:33,580
at du får et ganske greit spektre av

349
00:16:33,580 --> 00:16:33,760
ting.

350
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,360
Hvis du husker tilbake til 2019, så var

351
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,440
det den svære saken med disse Covington kids.

352
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,180
Det var en 16-åring som hadde litt

353
00:16:43,180 --> 00:16:45,200
sånn dra til trynet, og hadde en Trump

354
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:45,380
-lue.

355
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,020
Og de sto der sånn og mindet their

356
00:16:48,020 --> 00:16:48,740
own business.

357
00:16:49,020 --> 00:16:52,040
Og så ble de egentlig omtrent overfalt av

358
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,540
en sånn der Native American-type, og det

359
00:16:54,540 --> 00:16:57,620
ble en sånn svær mediesakuttale, fullstendig feilfremstilt.

360
00:16:57,740 --> 00:16:58,680
Alle som ville finne ut av det kunne

361
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,020
finne ut av den kvelden.

362
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:01,240
Ingen gav det, ikke sant?

363
00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:02,540
Så det ble jo presentert i Norge som

364
00:17:02,540 --> 00:17:05,359
om det var noen sånne oppstørnasige, frekke drittunger,

365
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,440
som drev av å plage en gammel indianer,

366
00:17:07,540 --> 00:17:10,780
og det var ukesvis, og ingen som korrigerte

367
00:17:10,780 --> 00:17:11,420
seg selv, ikke sant?

368
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:14,079
Fullstendig.

369
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,859
Men det fascinerende for meg, for det var

370
00:17:25,859 --> 00:17:30,700
i 2019, jeg sto på gata til kommunevalget

371
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:33,340
i 2023, og så var det en dame

372
00:17:33,340 --> 00:17:35,400
som kom innom, og så begynte vi å

373
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,140
snakke om mediekritikk, og så tok jeg opp

374
00:17:37,140 --> 00:17:37,740
denne saken.

375
00:17:38,420 --> 00:17:39,400
Så jeg bare nevnte det, men det er

376
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,240
litt lav sannsynlighet for at en tilfeldig nordmann

377
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,680
på gata skal huske den saken, og hvem

378
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,360
han er, og hvis jeg sier navnet han,

379
00:17:46,420 --> 00:17:47,340
så sier han «Nei, jeg aner ikke hvem

380
00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:47,820
det er».

381
00:17:47,820 --> 00:17:50,180
Hvis du husker han der guttungen med dra

382
00:17:50,180 --> 00:17:53,740
til trynet og Trump-lua, «Åh, han, mini

383
00:17:53,740 --> 00:17:56,000
-Trumpen, hvor faen tar han?».

384
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,240
Og det er liksom fire år etterpå, så

385
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,340
er det tilfeldige mennesker på gata i Norge

386
00:18:00,340 --> 00:18:02,780
som har et aktivt hatforhold til en 16

387
00:18:02,780 --> 00:18:04,540
-åring, som hun har sett på TV.

388
00:18:05,580 --> 00:18:07,180
Og det er noe med ikke bare tar

389
00:18:07,180 --> 00:18:08,080
hun feil på det, ikke sant?

390
00:18:08,140 --> 00:18:10,420
Sånn at det er fullstendig urimelig å hate

391
00:18:10,420 --> 00:18:10,660
han.

392
00:18:11,860 --> 00:18:14,220
Men det er også den virkningen media har

393
00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:16,540
på å forme så mange mennesker og hvilke

394
00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:17,560
holdninger de har til ting.

395
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,980
Og så er det den der konsekvensene og

396
00:18:21,980 --> 00:18:26,740
følelseslivet fra det, som kommer ut av det.

397
00:18:26,780 --> 00:18:29,120
Og den generelle holdningen til ting som skjer

398
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:32,540
i Amerika, ting som skjer med sånne, Arne

399
00:18:32,540 --> 00:18:34,600
formulerer det som at man ser på sånne

400
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,780
mediepersonheter som tegneseriefigurer.

401
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,840
Så man kan ha litt sånn utrett menings

402
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,520
- og følelsesutbrudd overfor dem.

403
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,800
Men en sånn ting som virkelig...

404
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:48,060
Man så den der videoen med Kaur som

405
00:18:48,060 --> 00:18:49,960
lo av dette, og mange andre som lo

406
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,740
av dette, og uverdig opptreden, og den der

407
00:18:52,740 --> 00:18:57,920
hele kvalifiseringsmarathon Olympiaden som alle driver med.

408
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:00,360
Og så blir du litt sånn satt ut

409
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:02,880
av at dette er uverdig, det er skjevdekning,

410
00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:04,480
men det er vi jo vant til, ikke

411
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:04,680
sant?

412
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,000
Og så så jeg denne saken fra Oxford

413
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,860
Union, den der lederen av Oxford Union, som

414
00:19:09,860 --> 00:19:12,060
også hadde reagert på den måten og le

415
00:19:12,060 --> 00:19:13,980
av drapet og liksom high-fivede det.

416
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,700
Og så skjønner du etterpå at han, lederen

417
00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:19,300
for Oxford Union, har faktisk debattert Charlie Kirk

418
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:21,040
med en meters mellomrom, så han har stått

419
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,520
og sett dette mennesket i øynene.

420
00:19:22,660 --> 00:19:25,180
Så det er ikke den der tegneseriefiguren engang.

421
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,220
Det er et menneske du har møtt, hatt

422
00:19:27,220 --> 00:19:29,480
en høflig debatt med, og så jubler du

423
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,620
over drapet hans i dag.

424
00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:17,940
Vi har ikke møtt hverandre.

425
00:20:20,860 --> 00:20:22,660
Jeg finner det, og i alle mine politiske

426
00:20:22,660 --> 00:20:24,740
aktiviteter, jeg har krossført med mange mennesker som

427
00:20:24,740 --> 00:20:26,840
jeg har fundamentalt ideologiske forskjell.

428
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,520
Men når du møter dem, og du forstår

429
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,520
ok, dette er en person, dette er ikke

430
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:34,580
mer en mediefigur.

431
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,780
Det er mange av dem som du kan

432
00:20:36,780 --> 00:20:39,040
utvikle kjærligheter med, og fortsatt ikke sikre med,

433
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:41,260
fordi du har en menneskelig forhold nå.

434
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:42,860
Og jeg tror at det i seg selv

435
00:20:42,860 --> 00:20:43,980
er en menneskelig natur.

436
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:44,740
Vi har forlort det.

437
00:20:44,740 --> 00:20:46,540
Vi har blitt så polarisert, og så mange

438
00:20:46,540 --> 00:20:47,920
av oss er endelig online.

439
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,380
Vi interagerer ikke så ofte i virkeligheten.

440
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,360
Men i alle fall, dette er hva konservatene

441
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:55,720
føler.

442
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,120
Jeg vet ikke om du så Bill Mahers

443
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:00,040
reaksjon til dette.

444
00:21:00,140 --> 00:21:02,300
Jeg tror han hadde en ganske sober reaksjon

445
00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:02,660
til dette.

446
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,520
Han beskrev hans opplevelse, hans personlige opplevelse med

447
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:07,000
Charlie Kirk.

448
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:09,060
Og da, hans konklusjon til det var jeg

449
00:21:09,060 --> 00:21:10,900
har møtt så mange av disse menneskene, og

450
00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:12,320
ingen av dem er så galt som de

451
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:13,040
gjør dem til å være.

452
00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:14,200
Han er en god menneske.

453
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:15,320
Han var en kjærlig menneske.

454
00:21:16,380 --> 00:21:17,820
Og den måten han karakteriserer det, er at

455
00:21:17,820 --> 00:21:19,020
du kan få en konservativ her, og jeg

456
00:21:19,020 --> 00:21:20,220
kan ikke sikre med hver eneste av dem,

457
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,300
men i alle fall snakker de, og prøver

458
00:21:22,300 --> 00:21:24,140
å snakke, og ha en dialog, og en

459
00:21:24,140 --> 00:21:24,720
diskurs med oss.

460
00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:26,280
Den venstre vil ikke snakke.

461
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:27,940
Det er morsomt at du sier at han

462
00:21:27,940 --> 00:21:32,440
hadde en drulig tilnærming, fordi jeg så podcastversjonen,

463
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,100
og da sa han at han kom nok

464
00:21:34,100 --> 00:21:35,480
til å drikke mer i dag enn vanlig.

465
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:36,000
Ja.

466
00:21:37,660 --> 00:21:39,980
Var han ikke på med Charlie Sheen?

467
00:21:40,220 --> 00:21:40,460
Nei.

468
00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:42,100
Ja, ok.

469
00:21:42,540 --> 00:21:44,440
Så i dag må jeg drikke mer enn

470
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:44,800
...

471
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,280
En ting er at du har andre som

472
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,360
reagerer med å juble og si at det

473
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:54,780
var fint, men det er litt om i

474
00:21:54,780 --> 00:21:56,820
hvilket samfunnslag de gjør det, og det er

475
00:21:56,820 --> 00:22:00,460
litt forskjell på om bilmekanikeren eller rødleggeren eller

476
00:22:00,460 --> 00:22:02,960
et eller annet gjør det, eller de som

477
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,940
på en måte pusser litt på det og

478
00:22:04,940 --> 00:22:07,140
pynter litt på det, men som jobber i

479
00:22:07,140 --> 00:22:09,480
TV da, eller i New York Times, eller

480
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:10,520
Washington Post, eller et eller annet.

481
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,040
Det er noe med hvilket nivå de er

482
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:13,220
på.

483
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:16,180
Men jeg vet ikke, hvordan deler du, vil

484
00:22:16,180 --> 00:22:18,520
du si, medieavdelingen i USA er da?

485
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,280
Klarer de fleste medier å holde seg i

486
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,600
sjakk og ha en forluftig tilnærming, eller er

487
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,220
det dårlig sult, jubel og glede?

488
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,340
As far as the Norwegian press landscape goes,

489
00:22:31,380 --> 00:22:32,180
it's so diverse.

490
00:22:32,180 --> 00:22:34,200
I mean, there's a spectrum.

491
00:22:34,660 --> 00:22:35,900
So I guess it just depends on how

492
00:22:35,900 --> 00:22:37,460
far, which way on the spectrum you're gonna

493
00:22:37,460 --> 00:22:37,760
go.

494
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,900
As far as the legacy media outlets go,

495
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,840
the mainstream media outlets, there's this kind of,

496
00:22:44,460 --> 00:22:46,880
whether it's center, center-left or left, there's

497
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,000
this insidious kind of impression that's constantly being

498
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:51,400
left.

499
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,960
They acknowledge that this is an assassination, and

500
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,240
they acknowledge that this is a truly impactful

501
00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,520
moment for the nation.

502
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,400
But there's always this equivocating.

503
00:23:03,660 --> 00:23:06,760
Yes, he shouldn't have been assassinated, but.

504
00:23:08,940 --> 00:23:10,740
Let's say the roles were reversed, and it

505
00:23:10,740 --> 00:23:12,960
was some thought leader for the left.

506
00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:14,000
Dean Winters.

507
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,200
And there's never a but.

508
00:23:17,020 --> 00:23:19,120
This is a horrendous thing that's happened.

509
00:23:19,580 --> 00:23:21,240
We all agree that it's a horrendous thing

510
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:21,600
that's happened.

511
00:23:22,060 --> 00:23:24,220
There's no justifying it.

512
00:23:24,940 --> 00:23:26,780
Yeah, they were assassinated, but look at what

513
00:23:26,780 --> 00:23:27,200
he said.

514
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:28,680
I mean, are we really surprised?

515
00:23:28,980 --> 00:23:30,580
And that's kind of, I think, what the

516
00:23:30,580 --> 00:23:32,840
media is telling in the United States.

517
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,400
A summarized characterization of the narrative.

518
00:23:36,660 --> 00:23:38,080
Here in Norway, it's a little bit different

519
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,940
because well, first, the Norwegian people tend to

520
00:23:40,940 --> 00:23:45,280
be culturally and innately more trusting of authority

521
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:46,880
than Americans are.

522
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,940
And more forgiving as well.

523
00:23:49,380 --> 00:23:52,340
And when you have the mainstream media here

524
00:23:52,340 --> 00:23:55,060
in Norway, all of which gets some forms

525
00:23:55,060 --> 00:23:58,560
of subsidies from the state, well then, technically,

526
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,040
they should be viewed, when you're kind of

527
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,140
evaluating the situation, as somewhat of a state

528
00:24:03,140 --> 00:24:03,680
apparatus.

529
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,360
Not only are they authority as far as

530
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:10,040
delivering the news and giving media analysis to

531
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,660
its audience, but there's a state component to

532
00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:15,420
this that's backing whatever it is they're saying.

533
00:24:15,660 --> 00:24:16,800
And these people are supposed to be the

534
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:17,100
experts.

535
00:24:17,620 --> 00:24:19,660
And so when you put these two things

536
00:24:19,660 --> 00:24:21,600
together in the equation, you have an audience

537
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,120
that's trusting of authority and forgiving of authority

538
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,920
when mistakes are made, and willing to sweep

539
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,900
things under the rug collectively.

540
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,020
And then you have this media that's obviously

541
00:24:32,020 --> 00:24:36,120
ideologically biased and driven, and not an expert

542
00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,520
as far as the United States goes, or

543
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:39,760
an understanding of the United States.

544
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,480
Then you end up with the result of

545
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:47,380
that being your average Norwegian casually referring to

546
00:24:47,380 --> 00:24:50,780
the assassinated as, well, you know, he was

547
00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:51,500
like Hitler, though.

548
00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:53,180
And I think that's how you end up

549
00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:53,980
with that result.

550
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:08,760
And I commend those

551
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,260
for admitting that.

552
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,660
And I saw one article and forgive me

553
00:25:15,660 --> 00:25:17,700
for not remembering exactly who the author was,

554
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,980
but the point of it was, how can

555
00:25:19,980 --> 00:25:23,200
we expect in Norway to maintain any credibility

556
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,460
in our publication if we're writing about a

557
00:25:26,460 --> 00:25:29,000
topic that so many in our audience know

558
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,200
more than us about?

559
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,340
There's so many that are reading what we're

560
00:25:32,340 --> 00:25:34,960
writing and they know that we're wrong.

561
00:25:35,180 --> 00:25:37,600
They know that we don't know what we're

562
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,820
talking about, because they know, as an average

563
00:25:39,820 --> 00:25:41,800
reader, far more about the topic than we

564
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:42,000
do.

565
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,540
And there you erode your own credibility when

566
00:25:44,540 --> 00:25:45,560
you start down that path.

567
00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:51,660
There's an amnesia, the idea that you browse

568
00:25:51,660 --> 00:25:53,060
through the newspaper and you come across a

569
00:25:53,060 --> 00:25:54,380
topic you know something about, where you have

570
00:25:54,380 --> 00:25:56,240
domain knowledge, and you see that journalism is

571
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:56,900
all over the place.

572
00:25:57,500 --> 00:25:59,920
The cause and effect are quickly opposed.

573
00:26:00,860 --> 00:26:02,300
And then you think, oh my God, how

574
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:04,240
can he work in a newspaper that's not

575
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,400
known to hospitals, or businesses, or the US,

576
00:26:07,620 --> 00:26:09,500
better than this, and write about it?

577
00:26:10,220 --> 00:26:11,460
And then you go on to something you

578
00:26:11,460 --> 00:26:12,480
don't know about, and then you start to

579
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:13,040
trust it again.

580
00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:15,860
And that amnesia comes in, that you forget

581
00:26:15,860 --> 00:26:17,160
how little they knew about the thing you

582
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,120
knew about, and then you think that they're

583
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:20,120
still trustworthy on other things.

584
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,200
And that's very scary, and that's the trust

585
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:24,820
you're talking about.

586
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,060
Because in Norway, we have a tendency to

587
00:26:27,060 --> 00:26:29,860
not think of ourselves as very authoritative, right?

588
00:26:30,060 --> 00:26:32,060
We compare ourselves to the Swedes, and they're

589
00:26:32,060 --> 00:26:32,940
much worse than us.

590
00:26:33,180 --> 00:26:35,120
They're huge, they walk in line, and everyone

591
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:37,540
stands on the right side of the escalator.

592
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:40,040
We're incredibly conformist here.

593
00:26:40,740 --> 00:26:44,340
And it's like, the corridor of opinion is

594
00:26:44,340 --> 00:26:45,420
really narrow.

595
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:49,380
And it's evident in this case, among other

596
00:26:49,380 --> 00:26:51,460
things, that those who let it go, or

597
00:26:51,460 --> 00:26:56,040
even those who try to defend the other

598
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:01,060
side, like Imre Marstall and Andresen from Minerva,

599
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,200
who were there to take the other position,

600
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,480
to talk to Magnus Marstall.

601
00:27:05,860 --> 00:27:08,840
And it's like, it's such a soft defense,

602
00:27:09,180 --> 00:27:11,060
and it's so careful in avoiding it.

603
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,540
I also saw that Gauter Scherwe was talking

604
00:27:16,540 --> 00:27:17,720
to Dan Burchoy.

605
00:27:18,180 --> 00:27:19,460
And it's much of the same.

606
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,380
Dan Burchoy becomes incredibly evasive, and Scherwe gets

607
00:27:22,380 --> 00:27:25,020
to talk freely with quite imprecise turns.

608
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,920
He's good at talking, and he doesn't say

609
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,940
anything completely crazy, but you draw the impression

610
00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:32,520
all the time in one direction, right?

611
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,100
And that's fine, because he's an opinionator, and

612
00:27:36,100 --> 00:27:37,340
has a position in it.

613
00:27:38,020 --> 00:27:40,620
But it's like, what you avoid without meeting

614
00:27:40,620 --> 00:27:43,880
the opponent, that's quite absurd in Norway, I

615
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:44,100
have to say.

616
00:28:08,420 --> 00:28:10,760
...

617
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:10,860
...

618
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:13,760
...

619
00:28:14,420 --> 00:28:16,420
...

620
00:28:18,980 --> 00:28:21,520
...

621
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:22,840
...

622
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:22,940
...

623
00:28:22,940 --> 00:28:23,040
...

624
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:23,900
...

625
00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:25,480
...

626
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,560
...

627
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:28,660
...

628
00:28:38,220 --> 00:28:38,500
...

629
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:44,120
...

630
00:28:50,220 --> 00:28:50,500
...

631
00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:50,620
...

632
00:28:50,620 --> 00:28:50,720
...

633
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:50,840
...

634
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:50,940
...

635
00:28:50,940 --> 00:28:51,040
...

636
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:51,140
...

637
00:28:53,540 --> 00:28:53,820
...

638
00:28:53,820 --> 00:28:55,740
er lederen av Republicans Abroad i Norge og

639
00:28:55,740 --> 00:28:57,300
stiller spørsmål om Charlie Kirk?

640
00:29:23,820 --> 00:29:25,440
Og det er en positiv ting.

641
00:29:25,660 --> 00:29:28,320
Og jeg ønsker at, i noen måter, noveligheten

642
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:29,680
med å snakke med medieren vokste opp for

643
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:30,420
meg lenge siden.

644
00:29:30,660 --> 00:29:32,040
Så det er ikke som om jeg er

645
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:33,680
myktet over det, eller fornøyd.

646
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,800
Jeg er stadig en leder av Republicans Abroad,

647
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,480
og du vil tenke deg at jeg er

648
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:39,860
en av de første som spør om disse

649
00:29:39,860 --> 00:29:39,960
veldig relevante spørsmålene.

650
00:29:40,180 --> 00:29:41,920
Men nei, da det kom til Charlie Kirk

651
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,660
var det bare Ine Heter som kontaktet meg

652
00:29:44,660 --> 00:29:46,880
og lagde en intervjue og skrev en artikkel

653
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,180
om mine første tenkninger i den nære tilfellet.

654
00:29:51,180 --> 00:29:53,660
Men nei, ingen andre.

655
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,460
Og en gang i tiden, alle av dem

656
00:29:55,460 --> 00:29:56,300
hadde ringt meg.

657
00:29:56,460 --> 00:29:57,860
Jeg tror også at de ikke så mye

658
00:29:57,860 --> 00:30:00,120
kjenner for min kritikk om norske medier eller

659
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,020
de ekspertene de vil bruke.

660
00:30:03,060 --> 00:30:07,820
Og under den siste kampanjen i valget, og

661
00:30:07,820 --> 00:30:10,880
snart etter valget, hadde jeg noen spørsmål med

662
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,560
noen som jobbet med medier og jeg tror

663
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:14,520
at de nok husker det.

664
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,780
Jeg vet ikke, jeg er ikke så mye

665
00:30:17,780 --> 00:30:21,600
av en konspirasiv person men noen ganger får

666
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:22,620
jeg den følelsen at jeg kanskje har vært

667
00:30:22,620 --> 00:30:24,680
blakklistet i denne kampen.

668
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:26,320
Men jeg vet ikke om det er sant.

669
00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:30,300
Det er veldig hyggelig å ha deg her

670
00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:30,600
i hvert fall.

671
00:30:30,940 --> 00:30:31,540
Jeg er glad for å være her.

672
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:39,380
Min fascinasjon for dette i litt sånn metaperspektiv

673
00:30:39,380 --> 00:30:43,520
er altså at du har et politisk attentat

674
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,200
og så klarer man å vri det til

675
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,660
at man problematiserer ofre.

676
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,440
Det er omtrent ikke snakke om gjerningsmannen.

677
00:30:52,780 --> 00:30:55,340
Det er omtrent ikke snakke om problemer med

678
00:30:55,340 --> 00:30:56,040
politisk vold.

679
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,260
Det man klarer å problematisere på basis av

680
00:30:58,260 --> 00:31:01,400
dette, etter at en prominent republikaner er skutt

681
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,940
og drept, og etter at presidenten har forsøkt

682
00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:06,200
skutt to ganger, så er det man problematiserer

683
00:31:07,180 --> 00:31:10,040
er risikoen for en backlash fra Høyre siden

684
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:10,360
i USA.

685
00:31:17,260 --> 00:31:24,040
Det var en kjærlighet for hvordan Trump kan

686
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,040
eksploere, og det er sånn at de karakteriserer

687
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,220
Trump for å eksploere denne assassinasjonen og Charlie

688
00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:32,480
Kirk.

689
00:31:32,780 --> 00:31:34,640
Faktum er at Charlie Kirk var så god

690
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:35,740
som familie til Donald Trump.

691
00:31:36,460 --> 00:31:39,360
Donald Trump, jeg tror fullt, og har sett

692
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,740
hans relasjon med Charlie Kirk oppleve over årene,

693
00:31:43,020 --> 00:31:45,360
tror jeg at Donald Trump hadde en kjærlighet

694
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:46,120
for Charlie Kirk.

695
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,740
Det er ingen følelse av det at det

696
00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:49,500
er eksploerasjon.

697
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,300
Simpelt å karakterisere assassinasjonen som det er, og

698
00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:57,480
effekten det har på landet, er ikke eksploerasjon.

699
00:31:57,820 --> 00:31:58,980
Det er ikke det samme.

700
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,240
Vi er røde.

701
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:01,580
Konservativer er røde.

702
00:32:02,140 --> 00:32:04,380
Og Donald Trump er også rettvis røde.

703
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,260
Selv om han ikke var presidenten, ville dette

704
00:32:06,260 --> 00:32:08,940
gjort han personlig, på grunn av hans personlige

705
00:32:08,940 --> 00:32:10,820
sammenheng med situasjonen, men også på grunn av

706
00:32:10,820 --> 00:32:13,500
at han selv har vært på den andre

707
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:15,280
siden av bulleten et par ganger.

708
00:32:16,340 --> 00:32:21,120
Så jeg utstyrer og utstyrer disse karakteriseringene av

709
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:21,820
eksploerasjon.

710
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,880
Ja, vi navigerer noen slags unnskyldt territori.

711
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,420
Det er noen sammenhenger laget, og jeg tror

712
00:32:28,420 --> 00:32:31,080
rettvis så til assassinasjonen av MLK.

713
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,340
Ikke nødvendigvis i motivasjoner eller ...

714
00:32:36,340 --> 00:32:39,180
Selvfølgelig er hver personens agender annerledes, men med

715
00:32:39,180 --> 00:32:42,540
tanke på pågående på landet, så tror jeg

716
00:32:42,540 --> 00:32:44,160
det er en rett sammenheng.

717
00:32:44,780 --> 00:32:47,720
Jeg er ikke sikker på hvordan vi skal

718
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:48,000
forandre.

719
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,820
Jeg har noen ideer om hvordan landet kan

720
00:32:50,820 --> 00:32:53,660
forandre, men det er enda tid som viser.

721
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,580
Nei, vi gjorde ikke det.

722
00:33:04,740 --> 00:33:05,600
Det var ingen vild ...

723
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,220
Det var vigils, minneskap og bedrømme.

724
00:33:08,220 --> 00:33:11,060
Det var ingen vilde røyter.

725
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,740
Ingen løp deres lokale bygninger.

726
00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:16,100
Ingen burde bruke deres egen områder.

727
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,320
Det var ingen følelse av vildhet, uansett i

728
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:24,060
situasjoner, veldig isolerte lokale situasjoner, hvor folk kom

729
00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:27,500
inn for å forsvare og forfølge memorialene mens

730
00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:29,080
folk var omkring for å bedre.

731
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,540
Jeg så et par videoer der et par

732
00:33:33,540 --> 00:33:35,120
mennesker forlokk deres temper.

733
00:33:38,220 --> 00:33:39,100
Det var akkurat det, faktisk.

734
00:33:40,180 --> 00:33:41,360
Vi har ...

735
00:33:41,860 --> 00:33:45,220
Begrepet å be om jording kom til mind.

736
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,780
I Norge har vi et rettsprinsipp for det

737
00:33:47,780 --> 00:33:48,860
som heter rettness i harme.

738
00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:50,860
Det ville falle inn under, og det vil

739
00:33:50,860 --> 00:33:52,340
si at du blir ikke dømt for å

740
00:33:52,340 --> 00:33:54,180
bruke vold mot mennesker i en sånn situasjon,

741
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,380
fordi de har bevisst med vilje provocert så

742
00:33:57,380 --> 00:33:58,380
mye på en person de planlater.

743
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,380
Det er good to go.

744
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:03,940
En annen ting.

745
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,400
Man har jo demonisert Trump i mange år

746
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,920
som vi er vant til den der tegneseriefiguriseringen

747
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:13,199
av ham.

748
00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:17,820
Den er ganske fremtredende med J.D. Vance

749
00:34:17,820 --> 00:34:18,080
også.

750
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,540
Når du snakker om å ha en personlig

751
00:34:20,540 --> 00:34:23,280
connection, så var vel J.D. Vance enda

752
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:24,739
mye nærmere Charlie Kirk.

753
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:26,840
J.D. Vance hadde vel ikke vært senator

754
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,600
hvis ikke for Charlie Kirk i utgangspunktet, så

755
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,139
hans karriere og hele greia lener seg ved

756
00:34:32,139 --> 00:34:33,760
egentlig på at Charlie Kirk var en av

757
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,679
de første til å omfamne hans kandidatur da

758
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:38,179
han stilte til senatsvalg.

759
00:34:38,780 --> 00:34:42,380
Når han da hoster podcasten til Charlie Kirk

760
00:34:42,380 --> 00:34:45,280
første episode etter at han er borte.

761
00:34:48,139 --> 00:34:50,760
Så er det også gjenstand for en sånn

762
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,199
lattlegjøring og tegneseriefisering her i Norge.

763
00:34:54,620 --> 00:34:56,500
Det er en sånn vicepresident i USA som

764
00:34:56,500 --> 00:34:59,180
har sagt noe sprøtt om Charlie Kirk.

765
00:34:59,460 --> 00:35:01,080
Det er ingen anerkjennelse av at det var

766
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,720
et menneske du kjente som er revet bort

767
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:05,820
på en helt urimelig vis.

768
00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:09,140
Vi snakket om empati og sympati.

769
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:10,800
Det er ingen anerkjennelse av det.

770
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:33,980
Det er mye som skjer med anerkjennelser på

771
00:35:33,980 --> 00:35:36,220
alle medier, om det er sosiale medier eller

772
00:35:36,220 --> 00:35:36,460
nyheter.

773
00:35:36,860 --> 00:35:39,280
Men det er også mye som er omfattende.

774
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:44,600
Det er veldig forsiktig informasjon til å maler

775
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,780
et stort bilde eller en karakter i et

776
00:35:46,780 --> 00:35:47,320
stort lys.

777
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,000
Det forlader et stort antal kontekster og ting

778
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:52,460
som betyr noe.

779
00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:57,340
Til en annen punkt av ironi der, tror

780
00:35:57,340 --> 00:36:02,720
jeg at leftistene og dem som tar medierne

781
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:06,300
medier, forlader deres egen grunn nå.

782
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:10,340
Hvis det gjelder støtte for konservativer, støtte for

783
00:36:10,340 --> 00:36:14,520
Turning Point, det er utrolig mye de får

784
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:15,640
i forhold til dette.

785
00:36:16,220 --> 00:36:18,260
Jeg har sett rapporter om at kyrkene har

786
00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:20,040
stiget mye i USA.

787
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:21,880
Dette har hatt en effekt.

788
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:23,920
Det er vanskelig.

789
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,840
Jeg tror at mange som har mikrofon og

790
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,500
har en slags styrke i den industrien, jeg

791
00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:32,900
er ikke sikker på hva du kaller det,

792
00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:36,800
men de opplever som om publikum ikke kan

793
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,520
gå til noe annet for å få mer

794
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:39,160
informasjon.

795
00:36:39,860 --> 00:36:42,240
Jeg er ikke sikker på om det er

796
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:45,500
i denne situasjonen at det vil ta oss

797
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:47,700
tilbake til en mer rådgivende ton og en

798
00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:52,100
mer produktiv og konstruktiv sammenheng med mennesker vi

799
00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:52,560
ikke er sikre på.

800
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,040
Jeg er ikke sikker på hva som kan.

801
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:55,320
Jeg er ikke sikker på hva som kan

802
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,140
gjøre det for oss.

803
00:37:22,740 --> 00:37:26,080
Jeg er relativt moderat på de fleste ting,

804
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,300
og i hvert fall når det kommer til

805
00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:30,700
omgang og kostyme og den type ting.

806
00:37:31,020 --> 00:37:33,140
Jeg kjenner disse folka skal jeg ikke ha

807
00:37:33,140 --> 00:37:33,980
noe mer.

808
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,960
Jeg har null toleranse for den type oppførsel,

809
00:37:38,020 --> 00:37:39,400
for det er rett og slett bare å

810
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:40,740
ikke oppføre seg.

811
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,540
Min teori er at det er så mange

812
00:37:48,540 --> 00:37:51,520
vanlige mennesker som ikke har den mikrofonen eller

813
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,220
den talerstolen som mange har, som bare reagerer

814
00:37:55,220 --> 00:37:56,080
intuitivt på dette.

815
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:57,780
Det er en fyr som har skutt, og

816
00:37:57,780 --> 00:37:59,660
du fokuserer på dette, du vet hva.

817
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,200
Nå er jeg på vei ut, jeg skal

818
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:03,400
ikke ha noe mer der å gjøre heller.

819
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,420
Og jeg kjenner det selv, ikke sant?

820
00:38:05,540 --> 00:38:08,080
Og jeg kan garantere at jeg har multiplisert

821
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:09,440
meg ganske mye for mange andre.

822
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,560
Du hadde jobbet i kalisert etter at du

823
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:12,260
ble anarchist, du.

824
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,700
Ja, det er fint.

825
00:38:15,580 --> 00:38:17,640
I think you're absolutely correct, and I think

826
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:22,100
one of the more, intuition is absolutely the

827
00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:23,200
right word to use in that.

828
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:24,980
You do have these kind of, I guess,

829
00:38:25,260 --> 00:38:28,360
normies, people who are not consumed by politics

830
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,900
and current events, and pick it up piece

831
00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:32,660
by piece throughout their day maybe, or throughout

832
00:38:32,660 --> 00:38:33,060
the week.

833
00:38:33,380 --> 00:38:34,820
And there is going to be an intuitive

834
00:38:34,820 --> 00:38:38,480
reaction to this, and the only people, I

835
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,880
would suggest, the only people that this kind

836
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,700
of narrative is actually speaking to, are people

837
00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:45,860
that have, there's something wrong in their head.

838
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:47,080
There is something wrong.

839
00:38:47,940 --> 00:38:50,460
And I think you have social media and

840
00:38:50,460 --> 00:38:52,980
cultural causes for that, but it's not a

841
00:38:52,980 --> 00:38:53,860
majority of the people.

842
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,760
This is a minority that this is speaking

843
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,040
to, it's a minority of people that identify

844
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,100
with this type of language and almost Orwellian

845
00:39:01,980 --> 00:39:03,840
reporting of the event.

846
00:39:04,220 --> 00:39:05,880
But I do think, you're right, there is

847
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,220
an intuition for most people to say, why

848
00:39:08,220 --> 00:39:10,260
are we talking about this?

849
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,780
In the days after, for example, we're still

850
00:39:12,780 --> 00:39:13,400
trying to find the killer.

851
00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:15,400
Why are we talking about this right now?

852
00:39:16,780 --> 00:39:18,760
And then now that the killer has been

853
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,520
caught, and the evidence has painted a pretty

854
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,520
clear picture, something I was never in doubt

855
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,240
in, I think I knew, and I think

856
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:28,720
most people knew, exactly what this was when

857
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:29,180
it happened.

858
00:39:30,260 --> 00:39:33,880
There wasn't a convoluted mystery, it was pretty

859
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:34,400
straightforward.

860
00:39:34,780 --> 00:39:37,900
And now we know that the suspicions are

861
00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:40,660
true, and you still have, I still am

862
00:39:40,660 --> 00:39:42,480
getting confronted by people, some even in my

863
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,380
own family, who are saying, I don't understand

864
00:39:44,380 --> 00:39:45,120
why you're so angry.

865
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:47,040
It was obviously a SuperMAGA guy that did

866
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:47,340
this.

867
00:39:47,540 --> 00:39:49,120
It was a Gruyper that did this.

868
00:39:49,220 --> 00:39:51,220
It was this right-wing guy who wanted

869
00:39:51,220 --> 00:39:52,940
to kill Charlie Kirk because he wasn't right

870
00:39:52,940 --> 00:39:53,460
-wing enough.

871
00:39:53,660 --> 00:39:55,520
And I've said, what are you reading to

872
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:56,380
come to this conclusion?

873
00:39:56,780 --> 00:39:57,800
I mean, if that were the case, I

874
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,020
would have no problem acknowledging that that's the

875
00:40:00,020 --> 00:40:00,240
case.

876
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,260
But there is no point of evidence that

877
00:40:03,260 --> 00:40:06,020
we have been provided so far by the

878
00:40:06,020 --> 00:40:09,440
authorities and by the FBI, that could point

879
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,580
to anywhere close to that direction.

880
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:24,040
Well, but

881
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:34,180
the

882
00:40:34,180 --> 00:40:35,740
irony of that is so many of the

883
00:40:35,740 --> 00:40:37,760
people who are making this false claim about

884
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,340
him, many of them probably know better than

885
00:40:40,340 --> 00:40:42,500
most of us that your politics is not

886
00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:45,560
necessarily in line with the politics of your

887
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:45,880
family.

888
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:47,900
A lot of these kind of radical leftists

889
00:40:47,900 --> 00:40:50,020
have broken from their own families, or their

890
00:40:50,020 --> 00:40:53,480
families have broken from them because the state

891
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,020
of polarization in the American political landscape.

892
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,640
So, I find there to be a degree

893
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,520
of irony there because of all people in

894
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,400
American politics that should understand that maybe my

895
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,400
politics aren't quite in line with how I

896
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,160
was raised and what my parents believe in.

897
00:41:08,460 --> 00:41:10,360
There is a break there, and I think

898
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:11,960
more of a break these days than there's

899
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:12,380
ever been.

900
00:41:12,620 --> 00:41:15,060
Of course, I think in earlier periods of

901
00:41:15,060 --> 00:41:18,540
American history, whatever your family's politics were, would

902
00:41:18,540 --> 00:41:21,720
be a good predictive indicator of being able

903
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:24,580
to make a relatively accurate assumption of what

904
00:41:24,580 --> 00:41:25,500
someone else believes.

905
00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:27,120
As it were, they came from this area,

906
00:41:27,340 --> 00:41:30,240
their parents are, you know, Quakers or Mormons

907
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:32,280
or whatever, and you can probably make a

908
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:33,360
safe assumption of what's on it.

909
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,280
But that isn't the case today because we

910
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,100
have the internet, and people have all these

911
00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:41,360
other doors and windows to be influenced by

912
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:42,020
throughout their day.

913
00:41:43,020 --> 00:41:45,580
But yes, they are definitely leaning hard on

914
00:41:45,580 --> 00:41:47,020
the fact that he came from a very

915
00:41:47,020 --> 00:41:52,440
small, rural, bedroom community, conservative Republican community, Mormon

916
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:52,920
community.

917
00:41:53,660 --> 00:41:56,840
Utah is the Mormon state, and so of

918
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,280
course in the immediate aftermath, to say okay,

919
00:41:59,420 --> 00:42:01,880
this happened in Utah, he's from Utah, I

920
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,320
think they were leaning on that very hard.

921
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:04,560
It must have been a Republican.

922
00:42:05,660 --> 00:42:07,620
Cognitive dissonance is a very pleasant subject.

923
00:42:08,820 --> 00:42:09,620
That's true.

924
00:42:10,780 --> 00:42:13,300
Over the years, and since you've seen cycles

925
00:42:13,300 --> 00:42:16,740
of insanity go through and disappear again, I've

926
00:42:16,740 --> 00:42:18,820
come to the conclusion that here in Norway

927
00:42:18,820 --> 00:42:21,140
we have a long history with it.

928
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,760
In the 70s, we had the madness of

929
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:24,460
AKP-ML.

930
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,260
It flew around and terrorized people and was

931
00:42:27,260 --> 00:42:29,740
violent and unilateral.

932
00:42:29,980 --> 00:42:31,560
And then it just dies out, and then

933
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,900
you get to a collective understanding that it

934
00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:34,620
takes too long.

935
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,800
They have to apologize for what they have

936
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:40,180
been doing.

937
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,360
And it's like a cycle of insanity.

938
00:42:42,580 --> 00:42:44,400
They've been doing that green shift and sea

939
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:44,880
wind for years.

940
00:42:45,420 --> 00:42:48,000
It looks like a mental illness when you

941
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:48,400
see it, doesn't it?

942
00:42:48,860 --> 00:42:50,820
You just don't understand how it's possible to

943
00:42:50,820 --> 00:42:52,520
have a public debate that just keeps going

944
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:53,080
at this level.

945
00:42:53,420 --> 00:42:55,840
But it just keeps going, and suddenly it

946
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,000
just dies out.

947
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,840
And then everyone turns 180 degrees, along with

948
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,100
nuclear power, along with the COVID-19 things

949
00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:04,840
that have eroded so much trust in the

950
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:10,280
media and political leaders that what they don't

951
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:11,680
understand now, what we were talking about in

952
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,280
the city, that cultural shift they are now

953
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:15,820
contributing quite hard to create.

954
00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:17,820
So the consequences of this in the long

955
00:43:17,820 --> 00:43:20,000
run will be so much bigger than they

956
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,060
perceive now, because they think they have hegemony

957
00:43:23,060 --> 00:43:24,820
on this, but there are so many who

958
00:43:24,820 --> 00:43:28,140
don't buy that package anymore, and don't trust

959
00:43:28,140 --> 00:43:30,200
what they are being told anymore, because they

960
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:31,040
are being lied to, right?

961
00:43:31,820 --> 00:43:33,920
And I don't know what to say.

962
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,320
There are also some signs.

963
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:40,180
We talked about such memorabilia of Kirk that

964
00:43:40,180 --> 00:43:42,600
were destroyed and trampled, right?

965
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,320
I just saw a video of a surveillance

966
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,660
camera that was filming a vigil that someone

967
00:43:50,660 --> 00:43:52,860
had been kicked and thrown in all directions.

968
00:43:53,300 --> 00:43:55,220
And then there are some boys on kick

969
00:43:55,220 --> 00:43:57,340
scooters driving past early in the morning when

970
00:43:57,340 --> 00:43:58,300
no one else is around, and then you

971
00:43:58,300 --> 00:43:59,460
see that they stop and then they go

972
00:43:59,460 --> 00:44:00,940
up, and then they repair and put everything

973
00:44:00,940 --> 00:44:02,440
back up again, and then they drive on.

974
00:44:02,860 --> 00:44:05,720
And you see the basic decency that lies

975
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:07,460
there among ordinary people who are not such

976
00:44:08,980 --> 00:44:10,800
fire in the belly activists, right?

977
00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:13,360
But who are just normal, decent people.

978
00:44:13,700 --> 00:44:15,560
You see them reacting to these people who

979
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,360
are so ideologically autistic that I have seen

980
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:19,820
for a while.

981
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,140
An ex-account, and it is of course

982
00:44:23,140 --> 00:44:26,040
not representative of anything, but it started like

983
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:26,140
this.

984
00:44:26,140 --> 00:44:27,300
We are Antifa.

985
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,020
We are going to fight against anti-fascists.

986
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,900
We are 180% against anti-fascists.

987
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:34,860
No, against fascists.

988
00:44:35,340 --> 00:44:37,860
We are 180% anti-fascist, and we

989
00:44:37,860 --> 00:44:38,960
are going to continue the fight.

990
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,500
And it was this thing here, and I

991
00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:44,420
felt that I had started to formulate a

992
00:44:44,420 --> 00:44:47,740
spiteful answer to them, and then I dropped

993
00:44:47,740 --> 00:44:48,040
it.

994
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,700
But it's like this completely without self-consciousness,

995
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:57,260
impudent, self-absorbed people's pre-existing activism, and

996
00:44:57,260 --> 00:44:58,980
what I wanted to write is what you

997
00:44:58,980 --> 00:45:01,140
don't understand is that anti-fascists live from

998
00:45:01,140 --> 00:45:01,400
you.

999
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,700
Or sorry, fascists live from you, right?

1000
00:45:03,860 --> 00:45:06,040
As long as you and your fantasies of

1001
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,860
violence exist, fascists, or those you call fascists,

1002
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,180
always have the excuse to screw the screws

1003
00:45:12,180 --> 00:45:14,860
for a while, and ordinary people will represent

1004
00:45:14,860 --> 00:45:15,800
the fascists over you.

1005
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:16,640
Right?

1006
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,020
And this is what they don't understand, because

1007
00:45:19,020 --> 00:45:22,360
they live in a bubble of their own

1008
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,960
media outlets, and their own friends, and this

1009
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:28,840
opinion community that is so safe and sound,

1010
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,100
where they can mean completely absurd things, or

1011
00:45:31,100 --> 00:45:32,840
praise themselves for being killed.

1012
00:45:33,460 --> 00:45:37,980
And they don't understand how significantly fewer they

1013
00:45:37,980 --> 00:45:38,220
are.

1014
00:45:44,020 --> 00:45:45,100
Anti-fascist, anti-fascist.

1015
00:45:45,300 --> 00:45:50,740
That's just the wrapping on what their package

1016
00:45:50,740 --> 00:45:51,020
is.

1017
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,320
It includes so many other ideological things within

1018
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:54,720
that.

1019
00:45:55,900 --> 00:45:58,460
I guess you could say cultural Marxism to

1020
00:45:58,460 --> 00:46:01,360
a certain degree, post-modernism, the removal of

1021
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,000
value in what we do value as family

1022
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,480
values, for example, the nuclear family unit, having

1023
00:46:08,020 --> 00:46:10,740
a sense of community that may be based

1024
00:46:10,740 --> 00:46:11,940
in faith, for example.

1025
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,000
These things are all wrapped into this Antifa,

1026
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,360
where they would happily tear all that down.

1027
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:18,680
And if you have these others that you

1028
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,120
kind of characterize as being fascist, if you

1029
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:26,020
must, and they're promising security, safety, family, over

1030
00:46:26,020 --> 00:46:28,580
anything else, if they're promising that, well, it's

1031
00:46:28,580 --> 00:46:30,700
not really a winning message that Antifa has.

1032
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:32,760
It's funny that you're starting to talk about

1033
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,780
cultural Marxism, because that was the only point

1034
00:46:35,780 --> 00:46:38,740
of reference to the expert that NRK has

1035
00:46:38,740 --> 00:46:40,680
brought in twice in the debate, and another

1036
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,760
program to attach this to Breivik.

1037
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:45,060
Yes, exactly.

1038
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:45,780
I saw that.

1039
00:46:46,940 --> 00:46:49,320
If it's the use of a single word,

1040
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,560
then you're on your way there, and you

1041
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:52,120
have a problem.

1042
00:46:52,700 --> 00:46:55,440
And it's intentional, I think, for someone like

1043
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,840
her to tie that to Anders Breivik and

1044
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,080
the assassination of Charlie Kirk, because it's a

1045
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,820
further effort to make that a taboo characterization.

1046
00:47:04,340 --> 00:47:05,960
But it doesn't frighten me.

1047
00:47:06,140 --> 00:47:07,440
It is what it is, and I'll call

1048
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:14,420
it the absurdity in being an academic and

1049
00:47:14,420 --> 00:47:17,540
an expert on TV, and what you're doing

1050
00:47:17,540 --> 00:47:21,060
is tying the murder victim to Breivik.

1051
00:47:22,140 --> 00:47:25,120
It's so brain-dead that it's impossible.

1052
00:47:26,820 --> 00:47:31,720
But this Antifa-fascist, not-fascist thing, the

1053
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:34,440
absurdity in it is that Antifa is an

1054
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,280
authoritarian movement that criticizes the authoritarian with a

1055
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:42,120
marginally different flag or blames people almost in

1056
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,220
the center for being fascists.

1057
00:47:44,940 --> 00:47:50,080
As you say, the conclusion about left-wing

1058
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:54,400
authoritarian is so small, because what you know

1059
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,960
is that you get authoritarian anyway, but with

1060
00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:59,620
the fascists, you at least get some order

1061
00:47:59,620 --> 00:48:00,340
and order.

1062
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,720
The names don't matter.

1063
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:04,740
The full name in North Korea is something

1064
00:48:04,740 --> 00:48:05,680
like...

1065
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,200
The Democratic Republic of North Korea.

1066
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,860
People's Democratic Republic, so it's all the way.

1067
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:34,740
But it's not definitionally progressive.

1068
00:48:35,740 --> 00:48:39,200
For example, one of my favorite Milton Friedman

1069
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,400
quotes was when he was being asked why

1070
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:43,340
is he a Republican?

1071
00:48:44,460 --> 00:48:46,620
Maybe he wasn't asked, but he was explaining

1072
00:48:46,620 --> 00:48:50,160
I am a Republican with a capital R

1073
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,120
and a Libertarian with a lowercase L.

1074
00:48:52,460 --> 00:48:53,780
And I'm only a Republican with a capital

1075
00:48:53,780 --> 00:48:56,040
R basically for expediency.

1076
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:57,720
I might be butchering that quote a little

1077
00:48:57,720 --> 00:48:58,600
bit, but that was the point.

1078
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,040
Being a part of the Republican Party was

1079
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:02,620
where he saw the channel through which he

1080
00:49:02,620 --> 00:49:05,900
could propagate Libertarian values most effectively.

1081
00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:10,320
And so there is grammatically a degree of

1082
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,420
importance of defining these terms.

1083
00:49:12,580 --> 00:49:13,960
What do these terms mean and how are

1084
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,020
they applied and how are they used?

1085
00:49:15,140 --> 00:49:16,780
To say somebody is progressive with a capital

1086
00:49:16,780 --> 00:49:18,740
P is different than saying somebody is progressive

1087
00:49:18,740 --> 00:49:19,540
with a lowercase P.

1088
00:49:19,700 --> 00:49:21,180
Of course, this is English grammar as well,

1089
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,680
but it is important that we understand the

1090
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:25,240
terms we're using.

1091
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:28,420
So to say those that the anti-fascists

1092
00:49:28,420 --> 00:49:30,700
are against are fascists, I think it's very

1093
00:49:30,700 --> 00:49:34,240
important to use quotations around fascist because we're

1094
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:37,140
letting Antifa then define, to define the political

1095
00:49:37,140 --> 00:49:39,320
landscape which is wildly inaccurate.

1096
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,440
And strikingly, they have a power of definition

1097
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:44,920
that is significantly greater than they deserve.

1098
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:50,920
But we have to we have to point

1099
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,340
out one thing as well because let's be

1100
00:49:54,340 --> 00:49:55,940
a little imprecise and say the leftists, they

1101
00:49:55,940 --> 00:49:57,700
have been angry at Trump for years, right?

1102
00:49:58,020 --> 00:49:59,960
Then we get to Dr. Kirk, and then

1103
00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:01,380
of course there are a lot of correct

1104
00:50:01,380 --> 00:50:03,920
reactions from the official USA, whether it is

1105
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,480
Pelosi or AOC or whatever it is, then

1106
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,640
you react formally at least.

1107
00:50:09,900 --> 00:50:11,940
You make the right moves, right?

1108
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:17,460
But yes, the genuineness in grief is probably

1109
00:50:17,460 --> 00:50:20,920
not always on a very high level.

1110
00:50:22,430 --> 00:50:24,380
But they are very concerned about freedom of

1111
00:50:24,380 --> 00:50:27,680
speech on the left, because Jimmy Kimmel has

1112
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,480
been kicked out of his talk show, or

1113
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:32,200
at least suspended.

1114
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,740
And there I have to admit that even

1115
00:50:35,740 --> 00:50:39,100
though even though the cognitive dissonance and double

1116
00:50:39,100 --> 00:50:40,900
morality on the left is to take and

1117
00:50:40,900 --> 00:50:42,400
feel all the time, and it's a big

1118
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,120
lump that you can't avoid you can't look

1119
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:45,960
past it.

1120
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,640
So Trump managed to mix in the head

1121
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,980
of FCC who started to throw his authority

1122
00:50:52,980 --> 00:50:54,960
around to get Jimmy Kimmel kicked out, and

1123
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,820
that is well beyond what I think is

1124
00:50:58,820 --> 00:50:59,400
acceptable.

1125
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:19,820
I would have celebrated that decision because I

1126
00:51:19,820 --> 00:51:21,420
do think what he did what he said

1127
00:51:21,420 --> 00:51:23,280
and how he said it was reprehensible.

1128
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,780
But I do have a problem with the

1129
00:51:26,780 --> 00:51:29,500
chair of the FCC brandishing his authority in

1130
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:31,460
the way that he did to say we

1131
00:51:31,460 --> 00:51:32,660
can do this the easy way or the

1132
00:51:32,660 --> 00:51:37,040
hard way, and basically saying ABC needs to

1133
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:38,100
do something or else.

1134
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,140
Which is almost quite literally what he said.

1135
00:51:40,260 --> 00:51:41,860
If ABC doesn't do something, then the FCC

1136
00:51:41,860 --> 00:51:43,600
has a lot more work in the coming

1137
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,180
days, or whatever it is he said.

1138
00:51:45,540 --> 00:51:46,300
There you have a problem.

1139
00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:51,200
But I think this situation is actually one

1140
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,080
of the best of the current events that

1141
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:54,520
are happening.

1142
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,140
This is a great isolated incident to use

1143
00:51:58,140 --> 00:52:00,140
to convert people to libertarianism.

1144
00:52:00,380 --> 00:52:02,480
I don't care if it was Biden Biden

1145
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,480
was using his authority the same way against

1146
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:04,760
conservatives.

1147
00:52:04,820 --> 00:52:05,720
In fact, it just came out a couple

1148
00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:08,200
days ago that the Biden administration was investigating

1149
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,180
and pressuring Turning Point USA and Charlie Kirk

1150
00:52:11,180 --> 00:52:15,940
and using their agencies and authorities to put

1151
00:52:15,940 --> 00:52:16,780
them in a corner basically.

1152
00:52:17,220 --> 00:52:18,420
So Biden was doing the same.

1153
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,360
Trump, in this situation, well it's not him

1154
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,720
but it's his guy did certainly overstep, but

1155
00:52:25,720 --> 00:52:27,360
I think this is one of the best

1156
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,440
arguments that why should the government have this

1157
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:30,740
level of authority to begin with?

1158
00:52:31,060 --> 00:52:33,520
Why is there an FCC chair that can

1159
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,000
tell a private corporation how they're supposed to

1160
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,980
handle a situation within their own company?

1161
00:52:39,580 --> 00:52:42,420
I find it problematic, one because the authority

1162
00:52:42,420 --> 00:52:43,660
was used in this way, but I also

1163
00:52:43,660 --> 00:52:45,540
find it problematic that the authority exists at

1164
00:52:45,540 --> 00:52:49,620
all What they're afraid of losing is their

1165
00:52:49,620 --> 00:52:50,980
affiliate license, basically.

1166
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,140
The affiliate license that these networks have, ABC,

1167
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,580
NBC, Fox, CBS, they have these licenses that

1168
00:52:57,580 --> 00:52:59,940
are granted by the FCC which gives them

1169
00:52:59,940 --> 00:53:03,480
a range of benefits and elevates their status

1170
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,280
basically in the broadcasting industry.

1171
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:11,280
a part of that having that license states

1172
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,440
that you have to operate in a way

1173
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,360
that's serving the public interest, and so then

1174
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:17,760
that would become the basis of the threat.

1175
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:19,940
It says, oh, you're allowing a man who's

1176
00:53:19,940 --> 00:53:22,880
blatantly lying, but not only blatantly lying, doing

1177
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,540
it to anger half the nation at least

1178
00:53:27,380 --> 00:53:29,520
there you're no longer serving the public interest.

1179
00:53:29,860 --> 00:53:31,460
So at least in the criteria and the

1180
00:53:31,460 --> 00:53:34,080
standard of the license, there is a point

1181
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:35,500
to be made, I guess, if that is

1182
00:53:35,500 --> 00:53:37,740
the criteria, but the more appropriate way for

1183
00:53:37,740 --> 00:53:39,180
the FCC to handle that would have been

1184
00:53:39,180 --> 00:53:41,560
having an internal review and going through whatever

1185
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:43,380
process they need to do, and then either

1186
00:53:43,380 --> 00:53:44,940
make the decision to revoke the license or

1187
00:53:44,940 --> 00:53:47,800
not but then to come out immediately after

1188
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,960
the monologue that Kimmel gave, and use the

1189
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,780
pressure that way, that I do believe is

1190
00:53:52,780 --> 00:53:54,880
problematic and I don't agree with that decision

1191
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,160
from the Trump administration, and I think it

1192
00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:59,740
could have been handled a lot better Now,

1193
00:53:59,900 --> 00:54:01,520
the other side of this is that late

1194
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,100
night talk show industry in the United States

1195
00:54:03,100 --> 00:54:04,220
is a dying industry.

1196
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:06,500
The fact is, Jimmy Kimmel was not speaking

1197
00:54:06,500 --> 00:54:07,920
to tens of millions of people when he

1198
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,240
gave that monologue He was speaking to a

1199
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:13,160
very, I mean there are countless YouTubers and

1200
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,180
podcasters that garner a much larger audience than

1201
00:54:16,180 --> 00:54:18,740
he does on his program, for a fraction

1202
00:54:18,740 --> 00:54:19,380
of the budget.

1203
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:24,620
These late night talk shows have massive departments

1204
00:54:24,620 --> 00:54:27,060
and teams of people producing them They are

1205
00:54:27,060 --> 00:54:29,040
a money pit for these networks They are

1206
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:33,140
not a profitable program anymore.

1207
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:35,220
So I do think that these networks are

1208
00:54:35,220 --> 00:54:39,460
looking for the earliest and most convincing excuse

1209
00:54:39,460 --> 00:54:42,100
possible to terminate these hosts, and I do

1210
00:54:42,100 --> 00:54:44,800
think within the next, say, five years, all

1211
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,300
of them will be gone, or at least

1212
00:54:46,300 --> 00:54:47,260
their contract won't be.

1213
00:54:47,380 --> 00:54:49,160
What we saw with Stephen Colbert, for example,

1214
00:54:49,420 --> 00:54:51,960
he wasn't fired, he wasn't there wasn't an

1215
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,820
ultimatum given by the Trump administration as has

1216
00:54:54,820 --> 00:54:58,320
been characterized since the announcement His employer decided

1217
00:54:58,320 --> 00:54:59,980
not to renew the contract, and it wasn't

1218
00:54:59,980 --> 00:55:02,140
anything personal against him, it was to end

1219
00:55:02,140 --> 00:55:03,420
the program in its entirety.

1220
00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:04,940
It wasn't to get rid of him and

1221
00:55:04,940 --> 00:55:05,720
bring on someone else.

1222
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:07,480
And I think all of these networks, because

1223
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:08,920
they all have their own version of this

1224
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,000
will be following suit within the next five

1225
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:11,200
years.

1226
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,140
I'm thinking that we've seen the Trump administration

1227
00:55:16,700 --> 00:55:19,900
use unnecessary pressure and use tools they shouldn't

1228
00:55:19,900 --> 00:55:22,000
use and now we see that the Trump

1229
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,700
administration does the same, and the question is

1230
00:55:24,700 --> 00:55:28,940
is it necessary for both sides to realize

1231
00:55:28,940 --> 00:55:30,980
that this might not be the way to

1232
00:55:30,980 --> 00:55:32,260
go, that this might not be that smart?

1233
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,000
Most famous quotes, at least amongst Republicans from

1234
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:02,580
Obama was, listen, I have a pen and

1235
00:56:02,580 --> 00:56:03,160
I have a phone.

1236
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,980
And the implication there was I'm just going

1237
00:56:05,980 --> 00:56:09,060
to write these executive orders to circumvent your

1238
00:56:09,060 --> 00:56:10,180
authority as the legislature.

1239
00:56:10,700 --> 00:56:14,440
And Republicans, prominent Republicans warned not only Obama,

1240
00:56:14,620 --> 00:56:17,520
but the Democrats that were just celebrating this

1241
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,780
strongman authority that Obama was embodying, were warned

1242
00:56:20,780 --> 00:56:24,680
listen, you can Obama didn't even, by the

1243
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:25,920
end of his second term, he didn't, in

1244
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,040
the aggregate he didn't have the most executive

1245
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,900
orders I believe Bush even had more, and

1246
00:56:30,900 --> 00:56:32,980
Bill Clinton had more than him but what

1247
00:56:32,980 --> 00:56:34,940
he did do was he expanded the scope

1248
00:56:34,940 --> 00:56:36,920
of what the executive orders were used for.

1249
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:41,500
And prominent Republicans and leaders within the party

1250
00:56:41,500 --> 00:56:44,240
were warning Democrats, we don't like this we

1251
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:46,100
don't like this use of presidential authority, we

1252
00:56:46,100 --> 00:56:48,040
don't like this use of executive orders, and

1253
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,000
we should warn you that just because Obama's

1254
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,040
president now doesn't mean the next guy that

1255
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:53,100
comes is going to be a guy you

1256
00:56:53,100 --> 00:56:53,360
like.

1257
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,000
And this is long before Trump was on

1258
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:56,740
the stage or anything.

1259
00:56:57,180 --> 00:56:58,560
And sure enough, that's what happened.

1260
00:56:58,660 --> 00:57:01,460
Now the precedent has been set and to

1261
00:57:01,460 --> 00:57:04,440
your point in question is, will one of

1262
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:05,980
them realize that this isn't the way to

1263
00:57:05,980 --> 00:57:06,640
handle things?

1264
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,940
I think it's a burgeoning machine that once

1265
00:57:10,940 --> 00:57:12,800
it gets moving in that direction I'm not

1266
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:14,640
sure how you stop it.

1267
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,240
Unless it's the will of the people and

1268
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:18,600
who they vote for and say this is

1269
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,440
really what's important to us rather than whatever

1270
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,300
subsidies and projects and other things that they're

1271
00:57:24,300 --> 00:57:25,880
earmarking in their budget.

1272
00:57:26,500 --> 00:57:28,840
So I'm not sure how to reverse course

1273
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:29,180
on that.

1274
00:57:29,620 --> 00:57:33,320
And now we see Republicans doing what the

1275
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,320
Democrats have been doing to Republicans for the

1276
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,460
last 10 years with cancel culture and using

1277
00:57:38,460 --> 00:57:40,880
the FCC to pressure and all this.

1278
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,780
And so as I said, I don't support

1279
00:57:43,780 --> 00:57:46,960
this decision by the FCC chair and the

1280
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,400
Trump administration and I put it this way,

1281
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,540
I said I am principally against how this

1282
00:57:53,540 --> 00:57:56,920
unfolded but I know that principally speaking, Jimmy

1283
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,240
Kimmel supports what happened to Jimmy Kimmel.

1284
00:57:59,300 --> 00:58:02,580
He hasn't been a passive participant in cancel

1285
00:58:02,580 --> 00:58:04,780
culture the last few years.

1286
00:58:04,980 --> 00:58:07,680
No, and of all people he'd like everyone

1287
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,800
to forget but he came from a program

1288
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,040
called The Man Show in the early 2000's

1289
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,280
and there was a program that was entirely

1290
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,360
based on the comedic degradation of women he

1291
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:21,820
proudly wore blackface on that program these were

1292
00:58:21,820 --> 00:58:24,780
all things that which, whatever, I'm not making

1293
00:58:24,780 --> 00:58:27,140
any character judgments there, it's his program, he

1294
00:58:27,140 --> 00:58:28,940
had an audience but I find it interesting

1295
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,660
that it's only now that he's being quote

1296
00:58:31,660 --> 00:58:34,360
unquote cancelled how is it that the left

1297
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,140
let him get away with his history for

1298
00:58:37,140 --> 00:58:39,500
so long and so this all kind of

1299
00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:43,120
pieces together that Republicans not only have endured

1300
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:47,140
the violation of speech from Democrats through various

1301
00:58:47,140 --> 00:58:50,720
methodologies but also saw that it was selective

1302
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,640
and arbitrary in that if you're with us

1303
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,060
then we can let you get away with

1304
00:58:57,060 --> 00:58:58,160
it, and if you're not, we're going to

1305
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:02,900
dig up 20 years of sins and then

1306
00:59:02,900 --> 00:59:05,960
you could hope that, let's say, the broader

1307
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:07,900
left has come up with better ideas now,

1308
00:59:07,940 --> 00:59:09,320
because now they're very focused on freedom of

1309
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,320
speech around this Jimmy Kimmel case, but I

1310
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:13,320
notice that there are very few on the

1311
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:15,860
left who are particularly concerned about freedom of

1312
00:59:15,860 --> 00:59:17,340
speech in Great Britain.

1313
00:59:17,660 --> 00:59:19,640
I don't think they were concerned when Tucker

1314
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:21,340
Carlson got fired from Fox, or?

1315
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:23,220
I think Jimmy Kimmel actually celebrated it quite

1316
00:59:23,220 --> 00:59:26,020
clearly on stage Yes, absolutely, and now it's

1317
00:59:26,020 --> 00:59:27,380
just the shoe is on the other foot

1318
00:59:28,380 --> 00:59:29,580
What I will say is there's a lot

1319
00:59:29,580 --> 00:59:33,680
of concern about how will Trump use this,

1320
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,140
how is the right going to react moving

1321
00:59:36,140 --> 00:59:39,600
forward you did see some prominent figures on

1322
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,240
the right such as Matt Walsh and some

1323
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:46,460
others from the Daily Wire Candace Owens is

1324
00:59:46,460 --> 00:59:48,660
another one, but she's pushing herself more and

1325
00:59:48,660 --> 00:59:52,460
more into the fringe of conservatism She's basically

1326
00:59:52,460 --> 00:59:55,360
crazy I was trying to say that politely,

1327
00:59:55,380 --> 01:00:01,480
but yes I can just mention that she

1328
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,140
has been all the way because she had

1329
01:00:03,140 --> 01:00:05,560
a libertarian phase as well, and that was

1330
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:09,520
so untrustworthy, so she's a definition by Grifter

1331
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:12,620
Yes, I think that's a good characterization and

1332
01:00:12,620 --> 01:00:14,240
it's actually interesting to watch how a lot

1333
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:17,920
of these media personalities go through phases and

1334
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,300
still maintain an audience throughout but my point

1335
01:00:21,300 --> 01:00:22,900
is, you had a lot of them give

1336
01:00:22,900 --> 01:00:26,460
visceral reactions to this in the aftermath and

1337
01:00:26,460 --> 01:00:31,860
with maybe not so subtle overtones of implications

1338
01:00:31,860 --> 01:00:34,820
of violence and things like that, but personally,

1339
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:36,380
I'm coming away from this.

1340
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,820
I think this is devastating for the nation

1341
01:00:39,820 --> 01:00:42,560
and this has truly impacted me and I

1342
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,340
do think that there is this is changing

1343
01:00:45,340 --> 01:00:47,680
the timeline somehow, and I'm not exactly sure

1344
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:50,020
how that's going to look moving forward, but

1345
01:00:50,500 --> 01:00:53,780
strangely, this has if my mind wasn't already

1346
01:00:53,780 --> 01:00:55,900
at ease before, I have never felt any

1347
01:00:55,900 --> 01:00:57,520
sense of fear that the United States is

1348
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,120
going to devolve into a civil war.

1349
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:00,660
That has never been a concern of mine.

1350
01:01:00,900 --> 01:01:03,260
It's a question I get asked often, either

1351
01:01:03,260 --> 01:01:05,180
on air or off air and I am

1352
01:01:05,180 --> 01:01:08,860
always very firm in my response there, that

1353
01:01:08,860 --> 01:01:09,840
it's not going to happen.

1354
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:11,540
I don't think that this is going to

1355
01:01:11,540 --> 01:01:11,700
happen.

1356
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,000
I don't have any reason to be concerned

1357
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:15,620
for the potential of another civil war in

1358
01:01:15,620 --> 01:01:18,180
the United States and strangely enough, this event

1359
01:01:18,180 --> 01:01:21,060
has only confirmed that further for me.

1360
01:01:21,420 --> 01:01:24,220
I don't think Americans at all have the

1361
01:01:24,220 --> 01:01:26,040
stomach for the idea of shooting their neighbors

1362
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,680
I don't think that that is on the

1363
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:29,740
horizon at all.

1364
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,620
What I do think may happen is we've

1365
01:01:33,620 --> 01:01:36,700
been watching Republican states do this for I

1366
01:01:36,700 --> 01:01:38,520
don't know, probably close to 15 or 20

1367
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:41,040
years, gradually, and now we're starting to see

1368
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:44,100
Democrat states do the same and is what

1369
01:01:44,100 --> 01:01:47,600
is called a soft secession where states are

1370
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,080
starting to realize the sovereignty they actually have

1371
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:53,320
as a state and that there are legal

1372
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,480
remedies for them to circumvent the directives from

1373
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,280
the federal government so that they can be

1374
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,980
more autonomous as a state and in that

1375
01:02:01,980 --> 01:02:03,860
you have more or less what is a

1376
01:02:03,860 --> 01:02:06,620
soft secession and that I think is more

1377
01:02:06,620 --> 01:02:08,800
realistic expectation going forward.

1378
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:10,280
I think we're going to start seeing more

1379
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,900
and more of that from both sides it

1380
01:02:12,900 --> 01:02:16,060
will be Democrat states and Republican states whatever

1381
01:02:16,060 --> 01:02:18,660
their values are and whatever their priorities are,

1382
01:02:18,940 --> 01:02:21,800
we'll be moving in the direction of those

1383
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,840
priorities as a sovereign state as distanced as

1384
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,060
they can be from the federal government and

1385
01:02:27,060 --> 01:02:29,860
one thing that they will sorry, one thing

1386
01:02:29,860 --> 01:02:31,980
that they will have to grapple with and

1387
01:02:31,980 --> 01:02:34,020
stomach in doing that, and left wing states

1388
01:02:34,020 --> 01:02:35,420
will have a harder time doing this than

1389
01:02:35,420 --> 01:02:38,040
Republican states is that in doing so, you

1390
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:42,780
will you will have to voluntarily deprive yourself

1391
01:02:42,780 --> 01:02:43,560
of federal funding.

1392
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:45,160
That's the only way it can happen.

1393
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:47,360
You have to be able to swallow that

1394
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:49,660
pill and say ok, we do not value

1395
01:02:49,660 --> 01:02:51,940
what the federal government is trying to make

1396
01:02:51,940 --> 01:02:54,060
us do they're paying us a lot of

1397
01:02:54,060 --> 01:02:56,620
money to follow their instructions so we either

1398
01:02:56,620 --> 01:02:58,460
do what we don't want to do what

1399
01:02:58,460 --> 01:03:00,440
violates our morals and principles whatever they are,

1400
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:03,320
left wing or right wing or we cut

1401
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,520
off the money flow and go our separate

1402
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:10,740
ways In Norway there's a culture to celebrate

1403
01:03:10,740 --> 01:03:14,300
a little that politicians on all sides have

1404
01:03:14,300 --> 01:03:17,720
a personal relationship between each other after the

1405
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,020
election that was just up, a group picture

1406
01:03:20,020 --> 01:03:21,440
was taken of all the party leaders where

1407
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,580
everyone smiled, whether they were election winners or

1408
01:03:23,580 --> 01:03:25,560
election losers, and it was very clear that

1409
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:27,700
these are people who accept each other appreciate

1410
01:03:27,700 --> 01:03:30,100
each other, it's always like that and that

1411
01:03:30,100 --> 01:03:32,880
is celebrated in Norway and it's very visible

1412
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:34,680
now that if you fall out of this

1413
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,280
very narrow spectrum that is the parties then

1414
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,300
there is no space left but the ideal

1415
01:03:40,300 --> 01:03:41,940
is there that we have to be able

1416
01:03:41,940 --> 01:03:45,680
to talk to each other across ideological lines

1417
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:48,740
and what it has to be, and it

1418
01:03:48,740 --> 01:03:51,340
occurred to me that if we manage to

1419
01:03:52,380 --> 01:03:55,380
turn this around to a kind of we

1420
01:03:55,380 --> 01:03:57,060
actually have to talk to each other we

1421
01:03:57,060 --> 01:03:59,000
have to distance ourselves from those who go

1422
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,060
too far whether it's when the FCC chair

1423
01:04:02,060 --> 01:04:05,820
begins to censor put the tongue on the

1424
01:04:05,820 --> 01:04:10,700
scale in matters of freedom of speech or

1425
01:04:10,700 --> 01:04:14,740
leftists who celebrate a political attack and that

1426
01:04:14,740 --> 01:04:17,640
if it takes two weeks or two months

1427
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,400
or two years is not so important but

1428
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,160
it is that we sort out what is

1429
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:23,120
right and important and what is not and

1430
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,440
I think that will come and that may

1431
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,740
be the hope that if those of us

1432
01:04:28,740 --> 01:04:30,060
who feel that the world is getting out

1433
01:04:30,060 --> 01:04:32,340
of hand now manages to keep focus on

1434
01:04:32,340 --> 01:04:35,900
if we ourselves try to focus on doing

1435
01:04:35,900 --> 01:04:38,440
and behave properly and do what is right

1436
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:40,520
that would be crossroads, for example in this

1437
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,200
case criticize the FCC chair even though I

1438
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,000
think the left deserves more criticism for the

1439
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,440
time but we just stick to that principle

1440
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:51,220
and maybe ask the left a little more

1441
01:04:51,220 --> 01:04:52,860
if they think there are any freedom of

1442
01:04:52,860 --> 01:04:55,260
speech problems in Great Britain for the time

1443
01:04:55,260 --> 01:04:58,020
when you have 10 times as many per

1444
01:04:58,020 --> 01:05:00,980
inhabitant imprisoned for speech on social media than

1445
01:05:00,980 --> 01:05:17,180
Russia I

1446
01:05:17,180 --> 01:05:20,000
think most people on the left they respond

1447
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,180
and the only thing that's driving them is

1448
01:05:23,180 --> 01:05:25,460
expediency, what is it right now that's going

1449
01:05:25,460 --> 01:05:27,580
to benefit me in the moment there isn't

1450
01:05:27,580 --> 01:05:30,660
a basic fundamental principle that's guiding them anymore

1451
01:05:30,660 --> 01:05:32,080
I think maybe once upon a time they

1452
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,180
did have that I think that's lost now

1453
01:05:34,180 --> 01:05:36,420
what I do think is interesting in comparing

1454
01:05:36,420 --> 01:05:39,080
the United States and Norway, the United States

1455
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:41,500
has obviously been polarizing as a nation for

1456
01:05:41,500 --> 01:05:47,260
some time and the difference in Norway it's

1457
01:05:47,260 --> 01:05:49,020
not happening at the same pace or at

1458
01:05:49,020 --> 01:05:50,420
the same rate, but there is a polarization

1459
01:05:50,420 --> 01:05:52,960
happening in Norway too but I think the

1460
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,560
difference is, other than the pace that it's

1461
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:58,020
happening in the United States the polarization is

1462
01:05:58,020 --> 01:06:00,100
happening but we know it's happening, we can

1463
01:06:00,100 --> 01:06:04,640
see it happening it's not hidden it's unavoidable

1464
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:07,940
we've been watching the progression or digression, however

1465
01:06:07,940 --> 01:06:09,960
you want to phrase that, we've been watching

1466
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:11,900
this polarization happen in real time, all the

1467
01:06:11,900 --> 01:06:13,900
time contrast that to Norway, where there is

1468
01:06:13,900 --> 01:06:16,480
a polarization effect happening, but we can't see

1469
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,620
it it's not acknowledged it's not addressed in

1470
01:06:19,620 --> 01:06:21,680
any way and there you do have a

1471
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:23,700
form of censorship as well, when you have

1472
01:06:23,700 --> 01:06:28,940
the state funded media apparatus that not only

1473
01:06:28,940 --> 01:06:30,860
puts someone in a chair behind a microphone

1474
01:06:30,860 --> 01:06:32,820
and on the camera regardless of whether or

1475
01:06:32,820 --> 01:06:34,040
not they're an expert in what they're fixing

1476
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:37,340
to discuss, but they also decide who doesn't

1477
01:06:37,340 --> 01:06:39,860
get to sit in the chair and what

1478
01:06:39,860 --> 01:06:41,120
will be it will be interesting to see

1479
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,380
how this polarization develops in Norway I think

1480
01:06:44,380 --> 01:06:46,340
there will, who knows how long it will

1481
01:06:46,340 --> 01:06:47,940
take, but there will come a day where

1482
01:06:47,940 --> 01:06:49,160
it's going to be a kind of rude

1483
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,860
awakening for a lot of average Norwegians it

1484
01:06:51,860 --> 01:06:53,760
will come as a shock, where did this

1485
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:55,440
come from how did we get here, but

1486
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,500
it has been happening all along it's just,

1487
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:03,760
it isn't visible I can also add because

1488
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,140
we are what should I say part of

1489
01:07:06,140 --> 01:07:10,900
an environment that attracts people who experience that

1490
01:07:10,900 --> 01:07:12,480
they don't have anything to do in the

1491
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:16,120
mainstream and it's from many it's all from

1492
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:21,000
conspiracy theorists to vaccine skeptics to people who

1493
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,240
are angry about the children's world to a

1494
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:25,840
lot of things and it's like in Fjøslyk

1495
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,240
that everyone who doesn't feel at home will

1496
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:32,840
go somewhere else but after the corona period

1497
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:36,020
and the shutdown I think it's a bit

1498
01:07:36,020 --> 01:07:39,700
underestimated in the mainstream how much, how many

1499
01:07:39,700 --> 01:07:43,580
people who have scaled off the trust society

1500
01:07:43,580 --> 01:07:47,760
we have had and when they continue as

1501
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:51,640
you mentioned there are so many, especially in

1502
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:57,120
the growing generation the Gen Z-ers who

1503
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,240
have their own relationship to Charlie Kirk and

1504
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:00,700
have seen the clips with him and know

1505
01:08:00,700 --> 01:08:03,260
that he's a guy who behaves and debates

1506
01:08:03,260 --> 01:08:05,840
constructively, he's good at it he doesn't say

1507
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:10,060
anything very crazy, and he's not racist I

1508
01:08:10,060 --> 01:08:12,520
look at all the interactions he has with

1509
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:18,300
blacks, with questions about quotations or racial questions,

1510
01:08:18,460 --> 01:08:20,580
or what it is and you see that

1511
01:08:20,580 --> 01:08:23,060
it's fundamentally not a racist approach, it's a

1512
01:08:23,060 --> 01:08:26,700
constructive fact-based approach you can disagree with

1513
01:08:26,700 --> 01:08:29,920
his conclusions but it's still political political opinions

1514
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:34,340
and policies that are different than many others

1515
01:08:34,340 --> 01:08:37,640
and if you're 19 years old or 22

1516
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:39,939
years old, and you've seen this on the

1517
01:08:39,939 --> 01:08:45,240
internet for 5 or 10 years then you

1518
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:50,560
see mainstream media coming up with completely ridiculous

1519
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,700
quotes, leaving the impression that Charlie Kirk is

1520
01:08:53,700 --> 01:08:59,660
a complete racist and it just erodes complete

1521
01:08:59,660 --> 01:09:04,140
confidence, complete faith in these people who are

1522
01:09:04,140 --> 01:09:07,240
now talking after knowing Charlie Kirk for half

1523
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,600
an hour it's difficult to...

1524
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:29,380
because in all the debates and conversations that

1525
01:09:29,380 --> 01:09:31,740
I've engaged in about the assassination since it's

1526
01:09:31,740 --> 01:09:33,819
happened, in so many of those conversations I

1527
01:09:33,819 --> 01:09:35,819
have felt like the person I'm talking to

1528
01:09:35,819 --> 01:09:38,899
is moments away from asking me, who are

1529
01:09:38,899 --> 01:09:40,819
you going to believe me or your lying

1530
01:09:40,819 --> 01:09:43,740
eyes and that is kind of the sense

1531
01:09:43,740 --> 01:09:47,380
you get from the mainstream narrative, the acceptable

1532
01:09:47,380 --> 01:09:51,160
narrative, is no, no, no I saw an

1533
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,660
article recently that said, here's how doing your

1534
01:09:53,660 --> 01:09:55,680
own research can radicalize you to the right

1535
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:03,600
and the article and headline were written without

1536
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:05,520
an ounce of satire or parody, it was

1537
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:10,340
a totally serious article and that's kind of

1538
01:10:10,340 --> 01:10:13,540
the impression that's left here, especially with the

1539
01:10:13,540 --> 01:10:16,760
Gen Z crowd and they too can be

1540
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:20,620
quite passionate despite any degree of ignorance about

1541
01:10:20,620 --> 01:10:22,200
whatever politics, I was the same when I

1542
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:28,240
was that age and these, because social media

1543
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:32,040
and this kind of content, regardless of the

1544
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:35,360
app, TikTok, Facebook, X, whatever it's so prevalent,

1545
01:10:35,820 --> 01:10:37,840
it's everywhere, these kids, that's all they know

1546
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:41,460
and they are watching this kind of stuff

1547
01:10:41,460 --> 01:10:44,360
all the time and I think they're it's

1548
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:46,040
kind of, take the late night show for

1549
01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:48,440
example, late night talk shows the audience for

1550
01:10:48,440 --> 01:10:50,060
that is people who are 65 and older

1551
01:10:50,060 --> 01:10:54,660
basically and so there is going to be

1552
01:10:54,660 --> 01:10:58,300
a gradual phasing out of these legacy outlets

1553
01:10:58,300 --> 01:11:00,620
because the young people not only don't watch

1554
01:11:00,620 --> 01:11:02,460
them, they don't trust them and that doesn't

1555
01:11:02,460 --> 01:11:04,400
matter what side of the political spectrum they're

1556
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:09,280
on, it's so sanitized and structured and deceptive

1557
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:11,800
that they can just go directly to the

1558
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,340
source on their phone, which they have been

1559
01:11:14,340 --> 01:11:16,980
programmed to do through trial and error of

1560
01:11:16,980 --> 01:11:19,100
their adolescence that I don't even think a

1561
01:11:19,100 --> 01:11:20,560
lot of the people that age even think

1562
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:22,980
about it, they just do it I remember

1563
01:11:24,820 --> 01:11:28,780
I'm probably like an old man pushing 50,

1564
01:11:29,140 --> 01:11:31,580
I'm probably closer to Gen Z than many

1565
01:11:31,580 --> 01:11:33,540
other 50 year olds, because you're on the

1566
01:11:33,540 --> 01:11:35,480
internet a lot and I just remember that

1567
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:37,980
Covington case we were on in 2019 where

1568
01:11:37,980 --> 01:11:39,980
you watch the media narrative, you watch how

1569
01:11:39,980 --> 01:11:41,860
it's told, and then you're in Norway and

1570
01:11:41,860 --> 01:11:43,480
you get interested, is it really like that?

1571
01:11:43,900 --> 01:11:45,640
and then there's someone who puts on YouTube

1572
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:47,780
this surveillance video for 2 hours where you

1573
01:11:47,780 --> 01:11:49,360
can see the whole process, you can do

1574
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:50,860
it yourself and you can do research, and

1575
01:11:50,860 --> 01:11:53,620
you're just doing it as a private person

1576
01:11:53,620 --> 01:11:56,840
you see that it's not close to the

1577
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:58,740
story that's being told in the media, and

1578
01:11:58,740 --> 01:12:00,660
then you see this rolling on for weeks

1579
01:12:00,660 --> 01:12:04,600
and it's so devastating for the trust in

1580
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:06,880
either NRK or VG or whatever it is

1581
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:17,240
and you can see, yes, there were some

1582
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:20,160
instances that were unacceptable, but to watch you

1583
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:22,320
could watch hours and hours of that footage,

1584
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:25,200
and if you walked away coming to the

1585
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,500
conclusion that was fed to you by mainstream

1586
01:12:27,500 --> 01:12:31,300
media that it was a military coup that

1587
01:12:31,300 --> 01:12:36,920
it was a violent insurrection that you couldn't

1588
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:38,700
possibly come to that conclusion, I mean, you

1589
01:12:38,700 --> 01:12:41,860
had elderly people walking through the halls looking

1590
01:12:41,860 --> 01:12:43,560
at the paintings on the wall, you had

1591
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:47,020
younger people that were strolling and just looking

1592
01:12:47,020 --> 01:12:49,480
around and there were many of them being

1593
01:12:49,480 --> 01:12:54,040
escorted by the security that ran the building

1594
01:12:55,340 --> 01:12:59,380
and simply being observed it was inappropriate what

1595
01:12:59,380 --> 01:13:01,580
happened I guess you could say, but certainly

1596
01:13:01,580 --> 01:13:04,600
the characterization of it as a violent, almost

1597
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:08,780
militant insurrection was wildly off base, but a

1598
01:13:08,780 --> 01:13:11,280
lot of people just like the Covington situation

1599
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:16,460
still believe what the initial reporting was, and

1600
01:13:16,460 --> 01:13:19,500
how that was framed almost immediately I will

1601
01:13:19,500 --> 01:13:23,600
add, for the sake of order Trump's departure

1602
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:26,680
in that situation was in my opinion, very

1603
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:33,000
critical to sit as a president and not

1604
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,620
intervene in what, and yet was a large

1605
01:13:35,620 --> 01:13:37,300
population that went against the government and could

1606
01:13:37,300 --> 01:13:39,900
have gone much worse and in my vocabulary

1607
01:13:40,440 --> 01:13:44,600
the word insurrection sounds much more like the

1608
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:47,940
Black Lives Matter thing that burned down entire

1609
01:13:47,940 --> 01:14:11,480
cities I

1610
01:14:11,480 --> 01:14:37,900
think it was well over 100 I'm

1611
01:14:37,900 --> 01:14:40,840
not sure how you do that and I'm

1612
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:42,420
not sure that that's going to make anything

1613
01:14:42,420 --> 01:14:45,440
better either but I do think there's absolutely

1614
01:14:45,440 --> 01:14:47,360
a reasonable argument to be made that the

1615
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:50,240
tactics and methods that Antifa uses are certainly

1616
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:50,860
terroristic.

1617
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:53,440
They are certainly a violent cohort of society

1618
01:14:53,440 --> 01:14:57,900
they certainly have no problem intimidating innocent people

1619
01:14:57,900 --> 01:15:01,880
in the town square and absolutely they embody

1620
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:06,800
what you would conventionally call a terrorist movement

1621
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:09,660
And the definition is quite simple it's just

1622
01:15:09,660 --> 01:15:12,540
that you use violence or threats to influence

1623
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:35,120
politics and

1624
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:37,080
make sure that everyone involved agrees on that

1625
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:44,060
definition because it is quite complex We can

1626
01:15:44,060 --> 01:15:45,840
for example sit here and acknowledge that Antifa

1627
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:49,400
is terrorist but the question is one, how

1628
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:51,620
will the government define them as terrorists and

1629
01:15:51,620 --> 01:15:53,600
two, how can that definition be applied to

1630
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:55,960
other organizations later and that's for me where

1631
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:57,840
it gets a little concerning I fully agree

1632
01:15:57,840 --> 01:15:59,600
Antifa needs to be dealt with and I

1633
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:02,580
fully agree that the way that they behave

1634
01:16:02,580 --> 01:16:04,440
in the town square and how they treat

1635
01:16:04,440 --> 01:16:07,180
others is unacceptable my concern is once the

1636
01:16:07,180 --> 01:16:09,580
federal government, once Trump starts it's the same

1637
01:16:09,580 --> 01:16:11,360
kind of, I feel that same instinctive warning

1638
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:14,580
that I was telling people about Obama under

1639
01:16:14,580 --> 01:16:18,460
his tenure my concern here is okay, what

1640
01:16:18,460 --> 01:16:19,960
are you doing and how is this going

1641
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:24,120
to be used against me later No, and

1642
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:26,860
it's frustrating to say that what often is

1643
01:16:26,860 --> 01:16:29,820
difficult is to ignore the losers, right?

1644
01:16:29,820 --> 01:16:33,340
because if they don't get attention they will

1645
01:16:33,340 --> 01:16:37,100
be gone they have to be so spectacular

1646
01:16:37,100 --> 01:16:59,820
that you don't have a choice the

1647
01:16:59,820 --> 01:17:01,960
problem worse than it was when probably the

1648
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:03,600
best way to go about it is just

1649
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:07,000
collectively as a society say it's unacceptable, you

1650
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:08,180
as a person are going to be arrested

1651
01:17:08,180 --> 01:17:10,840
for whatever crimes you perpetrate but we're not

1652
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:13,600
going to treat this as a serious political

1653
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:25,180
movement George

1654
01:17:25,180 --> 01:17:28,820
Soros and the like I do that I

1655
01:17:28,820 --> 01:17:32,300
believe will happen you will see the Trump

1656
01:17:32,300 --> 01:17:36,500
administration start to go after these organizations under

1657
01:17:36,500 --> 01:17:38,440
a variety of charges I know they mentioned

1658
01:17:38,440 --> 01:17:42,400
RICO for one for one criminal type of

1659
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:47,460
investigation, but also going after the NGOs which

1660
01:17:47,460 --> 01:17:49,180
needs to be done anyway, and I think

1661
01:17:49,180 --> 01:17:51,800
Elon Musk really genuinely tried to do that

1662
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,220
with Doge was to, I mean the number

1663
01:17:54,220 --> 01:17:56,460
of NGOs that we subsidize and Rand Paul

1664
01:17:56,460 --> 01:17:58,680
just off the cuff had a great response

1665
01:17:58,680 --> 01:18:00,980
to this when all the Doge controversy was

1666
01:18:00,980 --> 01:18:02,620
going on he said, how can you be

1667
01:18:02,620 --> 01:18:04,880
an NGO when you're taking our money something

1668
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:06,760
to that effect how can you be classified

1669
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,900
as a non-governmental organization when the lion's

1670
01:18:09,900 --> 01:18:12,380
share of your funding is coming from the

1671
01:18:12,380 --> 01:18:14,860
government, how can that be these are mutually

1672
01:18:14,860 --> 01:18:19,600
exclusive things it's a silent N so there

1673
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:24,000
are two N's non-non-governmental organization double

1674
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:26,320
negative it could have been a description of

1675
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:31,800
the Norwegian press yes, absolutely ok I think

1676
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:35,160
we're almost half an hour so we're getting

1677
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:37,160
close to the end it was very nice

1678
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:39,260
to have you here I have one final

1679
01:18:39,260 --> 01:18:43,920
question you're the chairman of Republicans Abroad but

1680
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:47,280
we have certain similarities can you explain why

1681
01:18:47,280 --> 01:19:05,560
Libertarians

1682
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:16,240
Abroad in

1683
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:21,660
order despite the characterizations of the Republican Party

1684
01:19:21,660 --> 01:19:23,520
the Republican Party is a big tent party

1685
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:27,020
there are a diversity of views and opinions

1686
01:19:27,020 --> 01:19:29,940
I can say, whenever there is a primary

1687
01:19:29,940 --> 01:19:32,060
ballot in front of me for choosing who

1688
01:19:32,060 --> 01:19:35,820
will be the presidential candidate for the Republican

1689
01:19:35,820 --> 01:19:38,540
Party I have, in every election when I

1690
01:19:38,540 --> 01:19:40,460
have the opportunity, always voted for Rand Paul

1691
01:19:40,460 --> 01:19:43,000
I have never voted for example for Donald

1692
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:45,120
Trump in a primary election I have voted

1693
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:46,940
for Donald Trump three times in the general

1694
01:19:46,940 --> 01:19:51,620
election but I feel that I'm we discussed

1695
01:19:51,620 --> 01:19:55,200
earlier which media platforms wanted to hear from

1696
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:57,340
me after the assassination of Charlie Kirk and

1697
01:19:57,340 --> 01:20:01,580
this occasion, which was unusual, because usually when

1698
01:20:01,580 --> 01:20:04,620
something of this scale happens my phone is

1699
01:20:04,620 --> 01:20:07,140
ringing throughout the day trying to get a

1700
01:20:07,140 --> 01:20:09,220
comment not this time, and that was a

1701
01:20:09,220 --> 01:20:12,120
strange experience, I was expecting it but it

1702
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:12,540
didn't come.

1703
01:20:12,740 --> 01:20:14,880
That being said if I were to represent

1704
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:18,280
Libertarians Abroad, if they have such an apparatus,

1705
01:20:18,620 --> 01:20:21,540
the phone would never ring and I would

1706
01:20:21,540 --> 01:20:25,460
have no platform to convey my values and

1707
01:20:25,460 --> 01:20:29,300
principles also, that being said as much as

1708
01:20:29,300 --> 01:20:31,140
I'm a Republican in the two party system

1709
01:20:31,140 --> 01:20:32,340
of the United States and I wish it

1710
01:20:32,340 --> 01:20:33,960
weren't so, I wish the Libertarian Party was

1711
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,380
a serious organization, I wish that I had

1712
01:20:36,380 --> 01:20:39,580
an opportunity to vote for a truly Libertarian

1713
01:20:39,580 --> 01:20:42,260
candidate in the United States I wish that

1714
01:20:42,260 --> 01:20:43,400
all of that was true, but that is

1715
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:45,100
not the reality of the situation in the

1716
01:20:45,100 --> 01:20:47,900
United States but as we know we do

1717
01:20:47,900 --> 01:20:51,400
have our party here in Norway Liberalistene and

1718
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:53,940
that I have always felt is more of

1719
01:20:53,940 --> 01:20:57,280
my party, more of my political home than

1720
01:20:57,280 --> 01:21:01,980
any other party anywhere but if you have

1721
01:21:01,980 --> 01:21:06,060
the values that I have and the political

1722
01:21:06,060 --> 01:21:08,900
principles that I advocate, for which I advocate

1723
01:21:08,900 --> 01:21:12,220
and I was in America typically speaking, you

1724
01:21:12,220 --> 01:21:13,680
would be a member of the Republican Party

1725
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:15,640
we can see that with Thomas Massey we

1726
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:17,200
can see that with Rand Paul we can

1727
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:19,980
see that with the Liberty Caucus within the

1728
01:21:19,980 --> 01:21:22,340
United States Congress these are typically people who

1729
01:21:22,340 --> 01:21:26,000
are free market capitalists, classical liberal Libertarians with

1730
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:27,960
a small L trying to do what they

1731
01:21:27,960 --> 01:21:30,080
can as a Republican with a capital R

1732
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:32,520
Yes, and I have to say that after

1733
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:36,500
I see the reactions on the Charlie Kirk

1734
01:21:36,500 --> 01:21:40,380
and what kind of movement that does not

1735
01:21:40,380 --> 01:21:44,640
take distance from it and cleans up in

1736
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:46,060
it it is the first time in a

1737
01:21:46,060 --> 01:21:48,020
long time that I think that if I

1738
01:21:48,020 --> 01:21:50,180
had to choose then we would have been

1739
01:21:50,180 --> 01:21:53,280
in the same party already and we would

1740
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:56,820
have been both against it but ok, thank

1741
01:21:56,820 --> 01:21:59,420
you so much for a long and nice

1742
01:21:59,420 --> 01:22:02,380
talk I hope you will come back sometime

1743
01:22:02,380 --> 01:22:05,000
Yes, of course and thank you both for

1744
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:07,720
having me today Just to say, we will

1745
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:11,500
always be around the table Ok, thank you

1746
01:22:11,500 --> 01:22:13,400
for today Have a good day Thank you

1747
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:21,660
for listening to Sideline Podcast We would like

1748
01:22:21,660 --> 01:22:23,940
to expand so if you talk about us,

1749
01:22:24,060 --> 01:22:26,640
share us or recommend us in the podcast

1750
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:37,500
app then it is highly appreciated If

1751
01:22:37,500 --> 01:22:39,640
you rather want to talk to us in

1752
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:41,580
the form of laughter or tears criticism, suggestions,

1753
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:43,380
questions or something else then you will find

1754
01:22:43,380 --> 01:22:47,820
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