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< Intro >

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– Today on Count Me In,
we have a great episode in store.

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Our guest is Brian Hock,
president of Hock International

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and an experienced accounting educator.

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Who has been teaching finance
and accounting certifications 

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for over two decades.

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Brian provides keen insights into the
value of professional certifications,

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like the CMA, and how they can benefit

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accounting professionals throughout their career.

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He discusses the importance of
certifications in demonstrating 

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specialized knowledge and skills, as well
as how certifications, like the CMA,

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help professionals stay current in a
rapidly changing business landscape.

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Brian offers advice for overcoming
barriers to obtaining certifications.

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Emphasizing the long term career rewards,

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that make certifications a smart investment.

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With technologies and an evolving talent
gap impacting the accounting field,

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Brian's perspective is extremely timely.

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Now, let's welcome Brian Hock.

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< Music >

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– Well, Brian, we're really excited to have
you on the Count Me In podcast today.

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And, just to jump right in, can you share
with us, with our listeners, 

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why are certifications so critical,
especially in the field of accounting?

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– Well, first, Adam, thanks for
having me, it's great to be with you.

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The question of certifications is one that
is very important for somebody's career.

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And the way I explain it is that there are
however many thousands and thousands

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of universities around the world.

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And they all have different quality
of an accounting program,

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accounting professors,
the classes that they teach.

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And, so, just because somebody
has an accounting degree,

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we aren't really in a position to
know what that person knows.

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What they studied, how they
studied, and how well they did.

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But a certification is
a specific body of knowledge.

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A specific syllabus that is the same

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for everybody who takes it anywhere in the world.

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And, so, the term certificate,

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 it's a certification because
it's that standardized test, 

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that everybody who's passed it
has passed the same content.

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And, so, it's a person's way of showing

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what they know separate from their university.

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Because a lot of universities
may be very good universities,

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but they're not known outside
the city, the region that they're in.

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And nobody outside that city
or region is aware that the person

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has such a strong accounting
education or finance education.

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But a certification shows that.

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– It does, and, I think, we're
hearing that a lot more.

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Especially, in the world of accounting,
with so many different things happening.

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So many new technologies coming out there.

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One of the biggest things we're hearing
about is things like the talent gap.

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So how are certifications
helping bridge that talent gap,

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especially in the finance and accounting sector?

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– Well, a good certification helps
bridge that by staying current,

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and this is something that I know CMA does.

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I've been teaching CMA for almost 25
years, and it's a number of syllabuses 

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that I've taught.

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Because what accounting and
finance professionals need to know,

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what they're using on their job,
has changed over time.

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And, so, with IMA doing such a good job

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of keeping the CMA syllabus
up to date and relevant.

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That is part of that talent gap being addressed,

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by making certain that the people that
come out through CMA have those skills.

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And the obvious example is AI
wasn't in the syllabus 20 years ago,

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but it was put into the syllabus in 2020.

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And, so, technology is a big one,
as technology changes.

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As the skill set that people need
to use that technology changes,

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data analytics, visualization,
are in the syllabus now,

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but they weren't ten years ago.

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And, so, a certification that
keeps its syllabus current

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addresses that gap by making certain

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that the people who come out of that
certification have those current,

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and practical, and relevant skills
that are needed in the market today.

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– Mh-hmm, yes, that makes a lot of sense.

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Now, you have been in this accounting
space, in the certification space, 

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teaching people certifications for a while.

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How have you seen that
demand change over the years,

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and what trends do you see us
going towards in the future?

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– I think one of the things that's
happened, and continues to happen,

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is more and more what I would
call a specialty certification.

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You take something like CMA,

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and it's accounting and finance,
at a fairly broad scope.

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It's not specific to receivables,
or payables, or bookkeeping, 

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or a specific type of banking.

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But now you have certifications that
are specifically about fraud examining.

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You have certifications that
are about a controller position

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or a specific element of a business.

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And those are wonderful certifications

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for people that are a little
further along in their career.

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That have some experience and know
what it is that they're going into.

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But when we talk about young
people just starting their career.

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The certification that they need
is one that's going to keep

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as many doors as possible open
for them, as long as possible.

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And when I talk to a university students,

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I say, "Well, if you know that you want
to go into investment banking, then,

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that's the certification you need to pursue."

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"If you know that you want to go
into some particularly niche area,

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then, find that specific niche certification."

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But most people, until they've been
five or 10 years in their career,

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don't know what they want
to do for the next 20 years.

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And, so, there are niche
certifications that are developing,

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which are for later in somebody's career
after they know where they're going.

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But we still have the same
certifications around the world 

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that were there 25 years ago.

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ACCA, SEMA, CPA, CMA, that are those
very strong foundational certifications,

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that keep a lot of doors open
for the people who have them.

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– So do you think there's a benefit
of getting into certifications

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when you're still in school
or just about to graduate?

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Is there a benefit there?

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– The benefit starts whenever
you start studying.

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And, so, if you're going to get
the benefit from the certification,

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you want to start as soon as possible.

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And that's really while you're
still at university, if you can.

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Even just studying for one of the certifications,

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one of the parts, is important.

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And, also, if we look at all of the different
learning outside of certifications 

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that IMA has available, students at
university can do some of those classes.

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Do some of the classes about
data analytics and visualization,

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and get those, even if it's not
a certification, get that process

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of learning and demonstrating
to your potential employer.

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That you are serious about your career,

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and you know that these are
the issues that employers need,

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that employees need to be able to do.

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And, so, starting the earlier you can,
as early as you can, is the best.

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– Yes, and it's great when
you can start that early

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because then you, kind of, know
the trajectory of where you're going.

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And one of the things we're hearing about

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and people are writing about, especially,
in the finance and accounting industry,

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is that there is a talent shortage in accounting.

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There's not a lot of people going into this.

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How do you think that's impacting the industry,

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and what are some things that
we can do to help address it?

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– Well, it's interesting;

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one of the things that a
shortage like that should do is

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it should drive up salaries, simply
because of supply and demand.

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It seems like that hasn't happened quite yet.

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I have a son in college, who's making
these decisions about majors,

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and it's a question of what are
the salaries that you can get

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from the different business majors
that's coming out of university.

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I think one of the things,
from an accounting standpoint,

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is we talk about people, young people,

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should do what they love
and follow their passions.

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Well, for a lot of people,
their passion is something

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they may not be very good at.

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Whether it's sports or music or something.

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But we need to remember that any business

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that's involved in that industry has accountants.

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And, so, I say, you may love basketball,
but you may not be very good at it.

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But a basketball team, a basketball
league, has an accountant.

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You may love music, but you can't sing,

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you can't play an instrument,
but every record label,

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every music company has accountants.

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And, so, it's a matter of helping people 

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recognize that an accountant is
really working within an industry.

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And whatever industry you like,
whatever your passions are in the world.

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If it's in automotive, you like cars, you
don't want to be a race car driver.

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You can't be a race car driver.

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But all the car companies, the
race teams, have accountants.

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And, so, it's a matter of helping
people see that it's more than just tax.

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It's more than just making
debits and credits all day.

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But you can connect to what it is

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that you love to do with accounting or finance.

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– I've never heard anybody
say it from that perspective,

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and that opens up a huge world because
every industry has a business aspect.

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So even if you're not good at that
specific thing, that all the people

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making the millions of dollars,
making records, or whatever,

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but there's people behind the scenes
who are making the business run.

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And there's so many assets of that
business that are available to you.

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Whether it is accounting or
some other field that you're like,

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"Hey, I'm interested in that part aspect of it."

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– Well, and even if you take into
account nonprofits, and somebody 

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wants to do something that's giving back,
specifically, to a specific cause or area.

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Well, there are nonprofits
that operate in those areas.

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And, so, volunteer within that nonprofit,

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I mean, maybe, they have a job
in the accounting or finance,

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depending on their size.

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But whatever it is that you enjoy doing,

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there is a job in accounting or
finance that is connected to it.

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– Mh-hmm, oh, that's great.

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So coming back to the
conversation about certifications.

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You said a lot of the good certifications

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are ones that, kind of, open
the most doors for you.

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And they help accountants stay up to
date with rapidly changing things,

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and they're making sure
their syllabus stays there.

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In light of increased things,
like increasing automation

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and technology advancements.

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How can you stay relevant?

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Because certifications are very large
and it's hard to keep them up to date

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with the most rapidly changing things.

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– Well, this is a big thing right now, AI and
Chat GPT, whatever version they're up to.

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And a lot of people just at the various conferences

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with IMA that we were at, recently.

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The question is are accountants
going to have a job in five years,

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five days, five weeks,
whatever the case may be?

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And, I think, the answer to
that is absolutely yes.

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All of these changes in technology

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are just continuing the changes
that have happened in technology,

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in the past, in that they are tools.

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It's not going to make a decision.

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It's not going to be able to interpret,

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for example, when we talk about ratios,

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anybody that has a definition
or the formula for a ratio

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and the financial statements,
can figure out what the ratio is.

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I mean, you find fixed assets,
you can find the number.

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So calculating a ratio isn't that difficult,

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it isn't that challenging, and that's
something a computer can do.

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But the question is, what
does that ratio mean?

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And if that ratio means something
negative for the company,

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what is the correction to it?

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What do we need to do to respond
to that, to react to that, to fix that, 

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to address that, whatever the case may be.

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And, so, AI and these new tools

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may be able to manipulate more
data more quickly than we can.

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They may be able to see patterns in
the data that we aren't able to see.

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But it still requires a person
who understands the business,

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understands the industry, to take
that information and make it

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into a useful decision for the company.

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And it's something, too, that when
we talk about capital, budgeting,

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and various other things within the exams,

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we talk about there's a
quantitative element, the number.

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You make the calculation, and
the net present value is positive,

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the net present value is negative.

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But then there's also a qualitative
element to that as well.

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"If we make this decision, what happens?"

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"If we open a factory...?"
"If we close a factory...?"

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"If we expand...?"
"If we contract...?"

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And, so, all of those qualitative factors,

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I'm not sure that AI is who
we want making that decision.

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Yes, I'm happy to have the computer
calculate the ratios for me.

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But I don't think I want the computer

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to make the decisions about what
we do as a result of those ratios.

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Because there are so many
things that go into that,

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other than the simple calculation that
was made in that quantitative analysis.

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And, so, if somebody is starting their career

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and they want to make certain
that they have a job five years,

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00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,800
10 years, from now, you need to
know how to use those tools.

234
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,600
If you can't use those tools,

235
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,680
you're going to be at a tremendous disadvantage.

236
00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:27,040
A little bit like if we were to say that
you didn't know how to use Excel at all.

237
00:12:27,079 --> 00:12:31,800
And you go to a job, and they ask,
"So how are you at Excel?"

238
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,840
And you say, "Well, I've heard of it,
but I'm really good at math.

239
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,640
I've got this great calculator,
I don't need Excel."

240
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,040
Well, no, that's not the case,
an Excel is a tool that helps you

241
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,930
take your great math to the next level.

242
00:12:42,930 --> 00:12:47,330
And that's what all these other tools
coming out on a daily basis are.

243
00:12:47,330 --> 00:12:49,360
We need to know how to
use them, and apply them,

244
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,920
and make them relevant to the
decisions that we need to make.

245
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:56,520
But they may replace the calculations,
the data entry, the routine work.

246
00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,760
But if we're studying CMA, that's not the
work we want to do ourselves anyway.

247
00:13:00,779 --> 00:13:03,000
We want to be the ones that
work with those numbers

248
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,440
after it's been sifted through,
and analyzed, and all of that.

249
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,480
So you need to know how to use these tools

250
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,600
because they will help you do your job better.

251
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,240
– Mh-hmm, yes, they do,
they help you do your job better.

252
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,000
And, like you said, they are tools.

253
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,530
They're not replacing us, they're tools 

254
00:13:16,530 --> 00:13:19,320
to help make some aspects of our jobs easier.

255
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:24,400
So that we can enhance our strategic, and
other aspects of our job that are things

256
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,829
that we humans still do,
at least, at this point.

257
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:31,480
– One of the things that we need to keep
in mind, when we're talking about our job,

258
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,260
or our career, or the future, is
it all comes down to adding value.

259
00:13:35,260 --> 00:13:38,680
Are we able to add value to
the organization we work for?

260
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:43,200
And we can do that if we don't spend time

261
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,440
calculating numbers that
can be calculated by anybody.

262
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,540
Calculating a ratio is not a high-level skill.

263
00:13:49,540 --> 00:13:53,360
But if we spend all of our time
at work calculating ratios,

264
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,579
we're not really adding value to the organization.

265
00:13:55,579 --> 00:13:58,280
If we have the tools that allow us
to make those, calculate ratios, 

266
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,320
or whatever it is that we're calculating.

267
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,200
Then we have more time to take that information

268
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,320
and actually add value to the organization,

269
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,480
by understanding what that information is,

270
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,280
how to use that information, and how to
make decisions based on that information, 

271
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,440
to add value to the organization.

272
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:14,810
And all of these are just tools

273
00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:18,400
that help us have more time
and better information to add value,

274
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,720
which is why we're going to
continue to have a job.

275
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,040
– Yes, for sure.

276
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,920
Now, certifications are quite an investment.

277
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,520
And, maybe, we can discuss a little bit,

278
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,920
what are some of the barriers
that might prevent individuals

279
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,520
from pursuing or attaining certifications,
and how can those things be overcome?

280
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,760
Because every aspect of the world,
people live in different areas.

281
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,920
There's many different barriers
that can occur, at times.

282
00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:42,389
– I think I'll break it down into
two broad categories of barriers,

283
00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:44,800
and then how we address
each one of them.

284
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,440
One of them is, obviously, a financial barrier.

285
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,200
And this comes to the fact that

286
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,160
different countries, different
economies, different scales.

287
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,400
And, so, for some people, young people,
an accounting student at university,

288
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:03,600
a finance student at university, the cost
of taking CMA may become a barrier.

289
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,920
I mean, a young professional that
just got married, has a child,

290
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,960
and doesn't have a lot of disposable income.

291
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:15,240
IMA helps with that, student scholarships,
I know, for university students.

292
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,400
But even when we look at the
amount of money that it costs,

293
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,240
and even if we do without any discounts

294
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,380
or anything like that, just
we register and we pay.

295
00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:29,600
We need to keep in mind what
the return is on that investment.

296
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,480
And if you say you buy materials, you register,

297
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,480
and you earn two and a half thousand dollars.

298
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:39,459
Well, that return is going to be
for the rest of your career.

299
00:15:39,459 --> 00:15:44,360
So if you make even $1,000
a year more, which is a low number,

300
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,020
but $1,000 a year more over 25 years.

301
00:15:48,020 --> 00:15:52,480
You have a $25,000 return
on a $2,500 investment.

302
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,800
Okay, time value of money in
the $1,000 is 25 years from now.

303
00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:00,240
But still $25,000 return on
a $2,500 investment is very good.

304
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,920
And, so, when we're talking
about that financial investment,

305
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,110
it's a question of perspective.

306
00:16:06,110 --> 00:16:08,160
Yes, in the short term,
it's a large amount of money,

307
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,880
and I don't want to discount that
or minimalize that, in any way.

308
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,000
But when we keep in mind
what that potential return is

309
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,010
when you pass, and have 25,000, 25,0000,

310
00:16:21,010 --> 00:16:24,480
whatever that number of a higher
salary through certification is.

311
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,920
It makes it a very good case

312
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,230
for whatever you need to do
to get that registration done.

313
00:16:31,230 --> 00:16:34,300
You don't buy your coffee
at the coffee shop every day.

314
00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:36,080
You don't go on vacation one time.

315
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,200
I mean, you make those sacrifices
for the longer term benefits.

316
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:46,080
The other barrier, I think, for a lot
of people is it's a big syllabus.

317
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:47,140
It's a difficult exam.

318
00:16:47,140 --> 00:16:50,550
There's a low pass rate and
people are just afraid to do it.

319
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:53,080
They're afraid to fail,
or they don't want to fail.

320
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,280
But this is something, I mean, I've been
doing CMA for almost 25 years now,

321
00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,420
and it is a difficult exam.

322
00:16:59,420 --> 00:17:02,080
We want it to be a difficult exam,
it should be a difficult exam.

323
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,400
If it's not a difficult exam,
it doesn't provide any value.

324
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:10,080
So it is a difficult exam, but it is
also a very passable exam.

325
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,530
And, so, if you start and you're
worried and you're intimidated,

326
00:17:14,530 --> 00:17:16,549
you make a plan, you make a schedule.

327
00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:19,200
You're trying to find 200 hours
to study for part one

328
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,520
and 200 hours to study for part
two, and you do it step by step.

329
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,760
This is not something you
have to learn today, tomorrow, 

330
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,960
or this week, it's a marathon.

331
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,160
And that marathon requires
commitment, and dedication, 

332
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,120
and a plan, and a strategy,
and your spouse's understanding,

333
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:41,080
that you're not going to be as available
for going out and having fun all the time.

334
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,320
But this comes back to the return on investment.

335
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:50,720
You spend two years studying but
the benefit is not only a salary benefit,

336
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,600
but it becomes also your career is better.

337
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,560
You're in better positions, you're
traveling, all of those benefits come.

338
00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,240
And, so, yes, it's an investment;
it's a monetary investment,

339
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,080
it's a time investment, it's a
nerves and stress investment.

340
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,520
But it's going to benefit you from the time

341
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,760
you start until the time you retire.

342
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,960
And, so, if you know you want
a career in accounting or finance,

343
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,539
start today, if you haven't already.

344
00:18:15,539 --> 00:18:17,320
– Mh-hmm, that's huge.

345
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,730
I like the marathon analogy.

346
00:18:19,730 --> 00:18:21,320
If you talk to any marathoners,

347
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,960
the hardest part is those last
six miles, that 20 to 26 miles,

348
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,000
or 26 and a quarter miles,
that's the hardest part for them.

349
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,440
Because getting up to that
20 miles point, you're good.

350
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,600
But then you have to finish, and
finishing is sometimes the hardest part.

351
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,640
But once you finish, when
they cross that finish line.

352
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,560
You see pictures of marathoners,
they look exhausted,

353
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,720
but the elation on their face, and I'm sure
it's the same for passing a certification,

354
00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:50,800
is like, "Hey, I've gotten to this point and
now I can see the benefits from that."

355
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,840
– Yes, you spend two years,
a year and a half studying.

356
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,200
But you have to keep in
mind why you're doing it,

357
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,560
and it's the whole rest of your
career you get the benefit.

358
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,880
And we also talk, I think, too, often,

359
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,090
we talk simply about CMA and certification,

360
00:19:05,090 --> 00:19:06,520
and that's obviously a big part of it.

361
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,160
But if you then look at what you
get for the rest of your career

362
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,600
from continued membership in IMA.

363
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,600
The opportunities, the networking,
it's where you find your next job.

364
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,960
It's where you find the person
you're going to hire.

365
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,560
And, so, when you add all of that
in not only the certification,

366
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,429
but that whole professional organization

367
00:19:24,429 --> 00:19:28,440
that you're a part of, that you're
a member of, that you benefit from,

368
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,200
it's something that you need to start.

369
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,110
You're not alone, other people
have done it before you.

370
00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:34,640
They've shown it's possible.

371
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,370
You know it's a benefit.

372
00:19:36,370 --> 00:19:38,840
So you just keep in mind
why it is that you're doing this

373
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,710
and how it's not a one-time bonus
that you get from your employer,

374
00:19:43,710 --> 00:19:44,800
if you pass the exams.

375
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,100
But this is something that's
going to be the rest of your career.

376
00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:51,040
And if you're just out of college,
this could be 40 years

377
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,620
that you're going to benefit
from this two years of studying

378
00:19:54,620 --> 00:19:57,920
and the little bit of a financial
sacrifice you had to make.

379
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,000
– Yes, it's that community that
builds from either your local chapter,

380
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,120
you go to local conferences, or the
annual conference or whatever it is.

381
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:06,720
You can build that community,

382
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,570
and that community can become
almost like a second family,

383
00:20:09,570 --> 00:20:10,920
as you grow in your career.

384
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,760
– Yes, well, and as you grow in
your career, your employer, 

385
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,720
before they promote you, they want
you to have experience in leadership,

386
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,000
or in management, or decision making.

387
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,040
And it's hard to get that in a company.

388
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,560
But you volunteer with your
IMA chapter, you volunteer with IMA,

389
00:20:25,570 --> 00:20:29,520
and you have that opportunity to meet
people, to lead things, to organize things.

390
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,960
To get that experience that every
organization is looking for in their people.

391
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,240
And you have the opportunity to do it
in a way that really benefits you

392
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:38,400
and your career as well.

393
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:43,080
– Yes, I think that's a huge benefit of
professional accounting organizations.

394
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,169
IMA, obviously, this is an IMA podcast,

395
00:20:45,169 --> 00:20:50,100
but whatever your specific field is
within the accounting industry.

396
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:51,630
Whether you're like, "Hey,
I'm an internal auditor,

397
00:20:51,630 --> 00:20:52,930
so I'm going to join the CIA."

398
00:20:52,930 --> 00:20:54,440
Or whatever those things are.

399
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,360
You want to be able to have
those different elements.

400
00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:59,360
And those things can help motivate

401
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,110
and incentivize individuals to gain certifications.

402
00:21:02,110 --> 00:21:05,000
Because you see your colleague, "Hey,
my colleague got the CMA, got the CPA"

403
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,640
got whatever the certification is.

404
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,920
And they say, "Hey, I want to join that;
I want to participate in that."

405
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:11,280
– Positive peer pressure.

406
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,560
– Yes, so, Brian, this has
been a great conversation.

407
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,799
And as we wrap things up,
what are some takeaways

408
00:21:17,799 --> 00:21:19,240
that you want our audience to remember,

409
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,520
as we wrap up the conversation here?

410
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,360
– Well, when we're
talking about certifications,

411
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:27,000
and I've said it enough already,
I may as well repeat it one more time.

412
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,800
Is the time frame that you
benefit from the knowledge 

413
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:31,960
and the skills that you learn.

414
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,760
And, I mean, it's not only the
certification, it's the skills that you learn 

415
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,000
while you're preparing for the certification.

416
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,640
That this is something that's from
now until the end of your career.

417
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,920
And if something is able to benefit
you that long, why wait to get it?

418
00:21:47,940 --> 00:21:49,520
Why wait to start that process?

419
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,390
And, so, it's a matter of keeping in mind

420
00:21:51,390 --> 00:21:55,840
the perspective of this is a
short-term investment of time.

421
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,680
It's a significant investment
of money, in the short term, as well,

422
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,920
but the payback for it is ongoing.

423
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:07,309
The increase in salary, the
increase in your performance,

424
00:22:07,309 --> 00:22:09,560
the opportunities in your country,

425
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,370
outside of your country,
it's almost immeasurable.

426
00:22:12,370 --> 00:22:14,560
And it's hard to calculate
the return on investment

427
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,880
because the return is so high
and the investment is so small.

428
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,840
If you're in the field of accounting or finance,

429
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,880
certification is absolutely the best
investment that you can make.

430
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,040
– And, as we've already said, it
significantly starts to close

431
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,440
that talent gap  that we've seen, and
also will help with the talent shortage.

432
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:36,280
As people can, as you mentioned before,
be able to get into different industries

433
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,980
because every industry needs
an accountant to run the books.

434
00:22:38,980 --> 00:22:40,980
– Right, and as technology changes,

435
00:22:40,980 --> 00:22:45,590
it's still somebody who knows
what that information means,

436
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:47,620
knows how to use all of this data.

437
00:22:47,620 --> 00:22:51,100
Think how much data companies
collect now from their customers,

438
00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:54,800
their suppliers, their employees,
the production process.

439
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,360
So this is massive amount of data.

440
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:59,840
But somebody has to be able to sort
through it and understand what's relevant,

441
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,880
what's not relevant, and how to act
on it, to add value to the company.

442
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,680
And, so, learning the skills in your
certification, staying current through

443
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,560
continuing professional education,
and staying current in the profession.

444
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,040
AI is going to come, AI is going to develop,
all these tools are going to develop.

445
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,440
But the person who knows how to
use them and knows what to do 

446
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,040
with all that information, is going to
be the one leading the organizations.

447
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,360
The one certainly that's going to have
a job, for as long as they want to work.

448
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,120
– Definitely, well, Brian, thank you
so much for coming on the podcast.

449
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:29,320
Really appreciate your insights,

450
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,160
and we look forward to having
you back in the future.

451
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,920
– It was my pleasure, thanks for having me.

452
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,080
< Outro >

453
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,560
– This has been Count Me In,
IMA's podcast, providing you

454
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,000
with the latest perspectives

455
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,680
of thought leaders from the
accounting and finance profession.

456
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,280
If you like what you heard,
and you'd like to be counted in

457
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,680
for more relevant accounting
and finance education,

458
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:55,720
visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.