Speaker 1: Hello, dear friends, this is John Butler
Speaker 1: and you're about to listen to a podcast
Speaker 1: called Running the River.
Speaker 1: This is a new podcast that I have put
Speaker 1: together with my dear friend Dingo Spender.
Speaker 1: He, you may recall, helped me with the last
Speaker 1: podcast I made for my album Home.
Speaker 1: Here again we deconstruct and get under the
Speaker 1: skin and get our hands dirty in the
Speaker 1: substrate soil of what I was envisioning
Speaker 1: for this latest ambient album.
Speaker 1: This is an album I made for wellness
Speaker 1: practitioners and practicers alike to
Speaker 1: defrag and decompress in this very busy,
Speaker 1: fast and quick world, and we hope you enjoy
Speaker 1: as we take you up down and across the river.
Speaker 1: This is Running the River.
Speaker 2: So let's go a little bit deeper on the
Speaker 2: intros to your songs.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, always mucked around with that
Speaker 1: eastern and celtic, I mean even blues does
Speaker 1: it.
Speaker 1: You know, there's like this miran
Speaker 1: meandering, uh, intros, that kind of set a
Speaker 1: mood and a feel, um, and so, like you know,
Speaker 1: even acoustically, uh, you know, for
Speaker 1: example, you know, even when I was learning
Speaker 1: with Deba Shish, for example, you know,
Speaker 1: like the, the, the intros are kind of
Speaker 1: important, you know, and then then you'd go
Speaker 1: into the Raga but like, for example, you
Speaker 1: know this ESC, you know, as I said, into
Speaker 1: the raga, but like, for example, you know
Speaker 1: this esque.
Speaker 1: You know, as I said, I bastardize and
Speaker 1: mongrel everything.
Speaker 1: So this is no, there's no strict modality
Speaker 1: about what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: But these kind of things, yeah, so I mean
Speaker 1: the Celtics have is much the same as the
Speaker 1: Indian stuff, at least how I approach it.
Speaker 1: As I said, I'm no aficionado how do you say
Speaker 1: that word?
Speaker 1: Aficionado, aficionado, I'm no aficionado
Speaker 1: on any of it.
Speaker 1: So you know what would that be?
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I mean it's
Speaker 1: Celtic-esque.
Speaker 1: You know, if I was doing the intro, you
Speaker 1: know, just kind of very similar to like the
Speaker 1: Indian stuff in a way.
Speaker 1: You know, but then not instantly, I start
Speaker 1: bringing in Debashisha stuff and turns into
Speaker 1: Celtic Indian, I don't know whatever.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's very much the same.
Speaker 1: But if you're doing even blues, if you're
Speaker 1: starting, I think you know probably most
Speaker 1: practices, you know most styles of music
Speaker 1: have that kind of thing, or maybe
Speaker 1: instrumental music, maybe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so show us like how you make these
Speaker 2: guitar beats and lay down this band.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think I said earlier on, like
Speaker 1: once I decided I got the arc of the seasons
Speaker 1: and had some context.
Speaker 1: It was like things started falling into
Speaker 1: place really quickly.
Speaker 1: So I just kind of this is like my little
Speaker 1: mini, kind of mini rig that I use for real
Speaker 1: small you know, doing benefits and stuff,
Speaker 1: but it was something even smaller than this
Speaker 1: in my living room.
Speaker 1: I just sat there and kind of wrote most of
Speaker 1: the music really quickly and it kind of
Speaker 1: started just with, like you know, literally
Speaker 1: a heartbeat, as simple as possible, you
Speaker 1: know.
Speaker 1: So something to play over, something to
Speaker 1: kind of create a bed with.
Speaker 1: So it's like you know, and and then create
Speaker 1: some ambience, some, you know, that'd be
Speaker 1: the basis really.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, so, so, and that's
Speaker 1: kind of how I wrote most things Like.
Speaker 1: Even, like you know, you know, sometimes I
Speaker 1: would slow down the delay a bit and then
Speaker 1: just literally just on the spot, be like so
Speaker 1: yeah, so there's like a whole delay pedal
Speaker 1: like on the bridge pickup.
Speaker 1: So I run two pickups and this guy's picking
Speaker 1: up the body and this guy's picking more of
Speaker 1: the amp just to bring in extra grunt when
Speaker 1: needed, you know, and so maybe one song
Speaker 1: might just be a little bit more like, like,
Speaker 1: uh, and all of them are like based around
Speaker 1: this heartbeat, like not getting fancy with
Speaker 1: the beats at all.
Speaker 1: So just kind of like, let's make it slower.
Speaker 1: Wait, what's that?
Speaker 1: Speed back, that's actually good.
Speaker 1: It's slower, john, that's faster, let's try
Speaker 1: this one, okay.
Speaker 1: So a lot of times like, okay, I want this
Speaker 1: to be calming, slow, and in the practice of
Speaker 1: making it, it sent me to new places to
Speaker 1: really get mindful, because there was no
Speaker 1: way I could be anywhere else but in these
Speaker 1: very slow rhythms.
Speaker 1: So like something like this, for example
Speaker 1: what do we do next?
Speaker 1: May I go?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's the song off the album,
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 1: And just the practice of having to play
Speaker 1: that slow and just like Was amazingly
Speaker 1: therapeutic.
Speaker 1: It was totally healing for me just to play
Speaker 1: that slow, bring the nervous system down
Speaker 1: away from something like you know, like you
Speaker 1: know, like whoa, which is great and super
Speaker 1: warrior and great.
Speaker 1: But you know there's a whole other idea of
Speaker 1: warrior.
Speaker 1: That's common, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I made this a lot of these songs 10
Speaker 1: minutes, 15 minutes to, so you could be
Speaker 1: used for like a practice, like TM does, 20
Speaker 1: minutes, you know, and you know, some of
Speaker 1: the breathing exercises are 15 to half hour
Speaker 1: and I was like, how can I make this?
Speaker 1: You know, shavasana, shavasana.
Speaker 1: After yoga it's like you sit for 10 minutes,
Speaker 1: 15 minutes.
Speaker 1: So I was writing, you know, I'd make a loop
Speaker 1: on the beat and then I play this chord
Speaker 1: progression for 10 minutes and I often
Speaker 1: pluck different every time.
Speaker 1: But this song, these songs, wanted
Speaker 1: repetition, trance, like headspace.
Speaker 1: So it's just, you know, One, two, three,
Speaker 1: four, that's it the whole time, like that's
Speaker 1: it.
Speaker 1: And then you know, and doing that for 10
Speaker 1: minutes, like it's an extremely calming
Speaker 1: thing, a very simple thing, very
Speaker 1: trance-like thing, and a lot of times we'd
Speaker 1: listen back and we'd both be nodding off
Speaker 1: and that was like, yes, we're doing the
Speaker 1: right job, you know, because, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: about bringing the nervous system down.
Speaker 1: So that was kind of how it was built and I
Speaker 1: just made most of the songs other than
Speaker 1: Wartua, you know, wartu song and chant and
Speaker 1: pray for my people, and the flute, the
Speaker 1: flute kind of breathing cedar instrumental.
Speaker 1: They were mostly built this way and kind of
Speaker 1: that quickly sometimes, you know, and then
Speaker 1: in the studio we could elaborate and
Speaker 1: Stretch out and David have a suggestion of?
Speaker 1: Maybe not, and that's how it started.
Speaker 1: You know, we, we literally set up a whole
Speaker 1: room with a PA that would just make, you
Speaker 1: know, put the beat in the room and record
Speaker 1: that whole beat in a big ambient space, not
Speaker 1: just through a DI, that whole beat in a big
Speaker 1: ambient space, not just through a DI, and
Speaker 1: then, you know, I'd play to that and we'd
Speaker 1: have nice mics on my guitar, but then this
Speaker 1: whole thing, or at least, or at least this
Speaker 1: part, it would all be going on in another
Speaker 1: room as well through a PA system.
Speaker 1: So mics in this PA system, and Dave just
Speaker 1: did this amazing job of capturing like the
Speaker 1: three-dimensionality of the sonics and that
Speaker 1: space actually really adds.
Speaker 1: It really adds to the sound.
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, there's delays and there's
Speaker 1: reverbs, but there's also this cavernous
Speaker 1: space that all the sound is being able to
Speaker 1: envelop in.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's kind of the techie world
Speaker 1: and the birthplace of it.
Speaker 1: You know, a big part of that was Dave Mann,
Speaker 1: which we've kind of gone into before, just
Speaker 1: like how amazing he is as an individual and
Speaker 1: the sounds he pulled, and also just a
Speaker 1: really great this crow, this war, the car
Speaker 1: ward on and and what, andy Wongi, and that
Speaker 1: there's a crow that's on a song so
Speaker 1: interesting and we you know Davis, we had a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of mics up in the in the
Speaker 1: recording room that had that was recording
Speaker 1: the PA, and then I was in the monitor room
Speaker 1: with him with the mics on my guitar and
Speaker 1: this word on was kept on crowing through
Speaker 1: the whole song and it ended up becoming the
Speaker 1: name of the song flight of the crow,
Speaker 1: because he just was just there coming at,
Speaker 1: okay, knocking on the window can I ask is
Speaker 1: it, is it the crow?
Speaker 2: is it the get out of bed crow?
Speaker 2: It's the get out of bed crow.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, can I share?
Speaker 2: Yes, please do so.
Speaker 2: I've stayed quite a number of times in your
Speaker 2: studio, um, not necessarily because we've
Speaker 2: been doing music, but I've also.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a lot.
Speaker 2: I've done a lot in time in that room.
Speaker 2: Yes, and there's this crow, this that has
Speaker 2: this compulsion at the crack of dawn,
Speaker 2: pretty much every day, and he comes up to
Speaker 2: the, to the glass, and he just pecks it and
Speaker 2: it's like quite loud, like he goes bang,
Speaker 2: bang, bang and then, and then you wait a
Speaker 2: minute and then three knocks again and he,
Speaker 2: it's, he does that, he's been doing that
Speaker 2: for years, he has been doing it for years
Speaker 2: and who like?
Speaker 1: what's his story who?
Speaker 1: Who are they?
Speaker 1: Um, I mean, I mean, that's a big question.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm always similar to when dogs
Speaker 1: don't like you and you're like what do they
Speaker 1: see that I don't see?
Speaker 1: Like, oh, I'll take that personally.
Speaker 1: I always take it a little personally when
Speaker 1: the crow just finds the room I'm in, when
Speaker 1: the whole house is empty, and goes with his
Speaker 1: beak.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so hard as well, like his beak
Speaker 2: must be, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, you know they, like I don't know what
Speaker 1: the dreaming stories are for other places,
Speaker 1: but you know what I've been shared with
Speaker 1: from Uncle Wayne and and his son Isaac is,
Speaker 1: you know there's a vanity story.
Speaker 1: There's a vanity dreaming kind of story
Speaker 1: about, kind of being obsessed with their
Speaker 1: image and having this whole kind of war
Speaker 1: with it and the fact I think it was
Speaker 1: actually like I don't recall the story
Speaker 1: exactly but like the reason why the crow
Speaker 1: and the magpie are the way they are is
Speaker 1: because they were fighting.
Speaker 1: They're both really big, bold energies that
Speaker 1: were fighting to be the most beautiful and
Speaker 1: they got in a fight and they actually got
Speaker 1: burnt in the flames and that's why the crow
Speaker 1: is black and that's why the magpie cobardy,
Speaker 1: as they call it in Southwest is is black
Speaker 1: and white, um, but I don't know the
Speaker 1: intricacies of that story.
Speaker 1: but yeah, all Wardong came and knocked at
Speaker 1: pretty interesting times during the whole
Speaker 1: thing, hmm, and you can pick it up because
Speaker 1: the studio is not soundproof, like this my,
Speaker 1: my monitor room is ish, but the main room
Speaker 1: isn't.
Speaker 1: You know, we live in the country, you don't
Speaker 1: need a lot of it.
Speaker 1: And uh, so there's a lot of bird sounds on
Speaker 1: the album that were caught, captured.
Speaker 1: You know this.
Speaker 1: We're capturing this pa doing this guitar
Speaker 1: beat and then I'm playing over the top of
Speaker 1: it.
Speaker 1: We have like a pickup that's with a delay,
Speaker 1: that's being played through a pa in a very
Speaker 1: big room with high ceilings and then these
Speaker 1: mics on and so like everything's kind of
Speaker 1: getting picked up.
Speaker 1: There's all this space and yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: few birds in there.
Speaker 1: And yeah, Dave just got an amazing sound, a
Speaker 1: really great sound.
Speaker 1: And then from there, uh, and also just an
Speaker 1: amazing individual, very gentle and humble
Speaker 1: and thoughtful individual, um, to work with,
Speaker 1: which was really great.
Speaker 1: It felt really, you know, uh excuse the
Speaker 1: catchphrase, but it felt safe, you know and
Speaker 1: um, and then we took it to James Newhouse,
Speaker 1: an amazing engineer, producer, mixer, and
Speaker 1: we sat for a few days and mixed it.
Speaker 1: So, Dave and an amazing engineer, producer,
Speaker 1: mixer, and we sat for a few days and mixed
Speaker 1: it.
Speaker 1: So Dave and I worked for 10 days on the
Speaker 1: album just doing all the stuff.
Speaker 1: And then I went to James Newhouse and he's
Speaker 1: fantastic and also, once again, a very
Speaker 1: amazing gentle, humble, badass and
Speaker 1: sweetheart of an individual Went to his
Speaker 1: home studio there, or the studio that he
Speaker 1: has in his home, a really great studio.
Speaker 1: And then we got Zeno Mickerey to master it
Speaker 1: and I got Zeno's name because he did all
Speaker 1: the Nils Fram stuff, which is music I just
Speaker 1: love to listen to Speaking of soothing Me
Speaker 1: too Frayed nervous systems.
Speaker 1: No-transcript.