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Good morning, Greek Connections listeners.

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I'm your host Chase, and joining me today
is Brandon Bartnick.

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He's the host of the Future Mobility
Podcast and the Vice President and General

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Manager at Edison Manufacturing and
Engineering.

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In our conversation, we'll explore
Edison's contributions to manufacturing in

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the mobility space.

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For anyone interested in the future of
manufacturing electric and autonomous

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vehicles, this episode is for you.

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We discuss all sorts of topics today,
ranging from the value proposition of

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plug-in hybrids and other types of power
trains, the growing importance of charging

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infrastructure, especially for fleet and
commercial applications, along with the

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different types of AC and DC charging
solutions that Edison manufacturing offers

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in conjunction with battery backup
solutions.

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We also talk about how the latter is a key
aspect in managing grid related costs and

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ensuring a seamless charging experience.

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Brendan shares his insights on how OEMs
are positioning their long-term

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investments for electric vehicles, plus
the critical role quality and supply chain

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management play into all of them.

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So whether you're a tech enthusiast and
auto industry professional or just curious

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about the future of transportation, this
episode covers it all.

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Plus remember to subscribe and share this
episode with others you think that will

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enjoy the content.

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And with all of that, enjoy.

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Yeah, thanks, Chase.

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forward to the conversation.

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My pleasure.

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For those who are listening who may not be
familiar with Edison, the future of

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mobility, can you just give a kind of
quick overview, maybe first of the podcast

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and then what you do and more about Edison
as a company.

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Yeah, sure.

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So Brandon Barton, yeah, future mobility
podcast started and right when the

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pandemic started pretty much like March
2020.

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And I've been running it for about four
years now.

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And chase, you had you on to talk.

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Uh, I think it was after that the Texas
grid failed.

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Um, well, a few, few years ago, yeah, the
big storm and I had the question.

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Yeah.

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And I was questioning like, Hey, how do
these, uh, how do these grids actually

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work and, and how do we try to prevent
this in the future?

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And we had a, a fun conversation there,
but essentially the podcast is

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It's built around the search for safer,
more sustainable, more effective, and more

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accessible transportation, which I define
as movement of goods and people.

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So how are we providing services for
people to move themselves and to get to

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places to get things to them in a way
that's safe and sustainable and that

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they're not putting themselves or others
at undue harm or creating negative

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consequences for future generations and,
and all of that.

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And, um, yeah, to cover a wide range of
topics that's, uh,

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I originally thought that was a reasonably
simple scope, but I've since learned that

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is a very complex equation that we're
trying to solve here.

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And there's, I get to speak to experts
throughout the industry on those types of

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topics.

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And along that, my day job is closely tied
to that.

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So I lead Edison Manufacturing and
Engineering as Vice President and General

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Manager.

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And we are a niche contract manufacturer.

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So we specialize in low to medium volume.

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complex assembly of, for the most part,
electric and autonomous vehicle systems,

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components, vehicles.

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And so we do, we build things like
chargers and electric vehicle components

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up to where later this year launching
production for a full vehicle and being

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the full vehicle integrator in the
electric vehicle space, autonomous vehicle

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integration, outfits, charger builds and
integration.

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And essentially we serve as a reliable,
capital efficient and flexible.

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partner for the companies who are trying
to make an impact in the space.

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That's great and I think it's been really
interesting to kind of follow what you're

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doing now with what we had as you
mentioned that conversation just a couple

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of years ago because I know what you were
doing previously was a little bit more

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about looking at manufacturing and I know
that Edison does some of this as well as

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kind of like trying to figure out how to
optimize and make it easier for

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manufacturing but I think it's really
great to see where you've come from and

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what you're trying to now.

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make kind of your own splash with this
role at Edison.

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So that that's great to see.

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I know you mentioned that there may be a
full car coming later this year.

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Is it too early to share any details about
that or will there be an update later this

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year?

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Yeah, I mean, I think you can just see
there's a press release in late 2023.

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And hopefully there's more coming, but we
have an honor to work with the company

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Zeus electric chassis based here in the U
S building a class five electric work

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truck.

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And

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and chassis.

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And so yeah, we have, we're their partner
to bring that into production.

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Congrats.

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That's, that's great to hear.

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And definitely a space that could, uh, I
think is going to be one of the earlier

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and more successful ones, at least
financially, to go through electrification

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just with the needs of whether it's
maintenance or just also that reliability

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with that.

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Can you share a little bit of, um, maybe
some of the things

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just to give a little more detail around
Edison and what makes Edison Engineering

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stand out and where your kind of area
expertise really is in this space.

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Yeah, so it's, I think it starts with a
key premise.

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And so you mentioned my background.

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And so I studied engineering, worked at
Boeing for, as a manufacturing and process

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engineer for a little while.

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And then I was with a engineering services
company, FEV for a little over five years

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and working with companies to develop
these future technologies.

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So whether it's battery or propulsion or
any, any propulsion system, component

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system, controls, integration in the
vehicle, that was the sweet spot.

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worked with a lot of companies to develop
these technologies, but then often saw

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this challenge of how do you actually put
that into practice?

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How do you implement that technology in a
way that allows your company to grow and

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scale and build a sustainable business,
but also to make the impact that you're

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trying to make in the world.

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And that was continues to be a challenge
and something that I saw over and over.

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And so that's what part of what drew me to
Edison is the focus on solving this

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problem for companies and taking things
from.

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prototype and proof of concept into
production and then executing as their low

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to medium volume production partner.

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And that's, it's a tough, it's a tough
space.

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And the question is, how do you do that?

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Well, and one of the, the core beliefs
that I have, and I think, I think the team

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here has is that there's a lot of
uncertainty in the system.

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No one really knows if anyone gives you
projection for EV volumes.

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And we're talking about, Hey, people have
undershot or they've overshot

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It was expected that someone was going to
deliver this many vehicles and they've

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delivered this.

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Like that, none of that surprising.

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Cause I don't think anyone actually knows
how this plays out.

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That it's too complex of a system with
regulations and customer and public

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perception technology that's being
developed across several axes,

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infrastructure and geopolitical stuff like
it's a super complex system here.

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So the core belief that we're, we're kind
of growing off is well, in a complex

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system.

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with a lot of uncertainty, choose a path
that gives you optionality, choose the

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path that allows you to wait to make your
big bets.

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And that's essentially what we do coming
in and working with our customers and our

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partners is to deliver for them in a very
reliable way, in a structured way.

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We come from our sister company, PJ
Wallbank Springs has been an automotive

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supplier for 40 plus years.

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They provide the biggest players in the
world, 20, 25 million components per year

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that they deliver at a very high standard.

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We know what quality looks like and we
incorporate that into the products we

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build, but we do it in a flexible way.

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And we intentionally limit upfront
capital.

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We try to look for what is the most
effective way to build these initial units

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that allow you the flexibility and the
freedom to miss projections and to make

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adjustments and to learn that, Hey, your
product's not evolving the way you

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originally hoped or thought it would.

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The market's not evolving at the pace that
you had thought it would.

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And

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not to make a upfront rigid bet and then
sink the company because that doesn't come

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true.

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Yeah, and I think you're there's a lot of
themes you're kind of talking about right

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now around just what we've been seeing in
the past year, really the last six months

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around, especially electric vehicles.

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And I think just the auto industry in
general, a lot, there's been a lot of

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headlines about electric vehicles aren't
selling.

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And there's truth to that.

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But I think the bigger picture really is
just cars in general have come to

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a much slower rate of growth than we had
been seeing the last couple of years with

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interest rates and some of the other
things that have really changed to make

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that a little bit harder for especially
manufacturers.

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What are some of the maybe surprises that
you've seen at Edison around how quickly

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maybe some of these things have changed
and how you have been able to help maybe

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some of these clients?

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around these unexpected changes or
slowdowns.

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Cause I think what we're talking about,
especially when you look at the market

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today from even like a year ago, it was
starting to slow down, but it wasn't quite

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like what we're seeing right now,
especially like in headlines and

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everything else about it, just making it
sound like the industry has come to pretty

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much a complete stop.

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Yeah, that's a good question.

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So the biggest, biggest surprises or
change.

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I mean, so we've certainly had customers
ranging from, I don't know, there's a

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customer that we were working with who was
seeking a series B funding that

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unfortunately didn't close and is no
longer around.

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There was a global automotive OEM that we
worked with for close to a year and then

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strategies and budgets change and suddenly
the product that they thought they were

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going to bring into market changes.

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But

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It's not super surprising necessarily,
because that's just that happens right in

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an ecosystem like we're living in right
now.

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I think the, it's been interesting to see
how perception has changed and how the

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positioning has changed.

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So that was, I think one of the main
things that I've recognized over the past,

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say 18, 24 months or so is talking with
founders and investors and things like

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that.

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But people like that and the tone, whether
it's on a podcast platform or behind

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closed doors and in a private setting, it
has shifted a bit in that you're seeing

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fewer of these big bets, right?

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And fewer of these companies that are
coming out and saying, hey, we're going to

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launch and it's going to be this volume
and we're going to take on Tesla within

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the next 12 months or I don't know what,
but like it, you know, the, the skyrocket

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hockey stick, there's still companies that
are.

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doing that, but this general idea seems to
be growing a bit that like, no, we don't

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know and we want to grow.

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We want to be big, but at the same time,
we want to be efficient with our capital

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and we want to buy ourselves a runway that
allows us to grow at a rate that makes it

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worthwhile for our venture capital
partners if that's what you're using to

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generate capital and fund your activities,
but also at a responsible rate that allows

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you to account for changes in the market
without...

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without being underwater quickly.

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So I think that's the biggest change I've
seen is in the perception, right?

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And the people who are coming to us now
and saying, it used to be, hey, we're

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gonna produce a thousand of these three
months from now, and now it's, well, I

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think we're gonna build 25 of these and
then 50, and then 100, then 500, then a

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thousand.

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And then that's what we can get behind a
bit more and be like, okay, now we're

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talking a bit more reasonably than what we
were before.

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Yeah, and I know your team is the whole
company or is it just you based in the

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Michigan area?

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Yeah.

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So the, we are in port here on Michigan,
which is about an hour north of Okay.

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That's why I thought it's kind of been
interesting because we've had some people

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on, um, even the last couple of episodes,
we had John McElroy, who's, uh, from auto

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line based in the Detroit area.

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And he was kind of talking about what he's
seen.

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And obviously with kind of the big three
talking about pulling back, still

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investing in electrification for a
long-term strategy, kind of like what

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you're talking about, but

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kind of doubling back down onto hybrids
and maybe plug-in hybrid technology.

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With what you're doing at Edison
Engineering, is it, I know kind of looking

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online, there's mentions of hybrids, but
it seems to be mostly around fully

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electric vehicles.

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Are you seeing kind of a similar thing
where some of your suppliers who have been

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all in on electric are just like, maybe we
should take an approach now.

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and look at plug-it hybrids or some of
these other technologies, are you still

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seeing common interest around fully
electric vehicles for the long-term

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solution?

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I'd say both.

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We aren't necessarily...

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We're technology agnostic, I would say, in
that part of the reason why a lot of the

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00:12:59,578 --> 00:13:03,621
focus has been in the electric and
autonomous space thus far is ultimately

226
00:13:03,621 --> 00:13:08,104
the solution that we're providing, the way
that I explained it, we're filling cracks

227
00:13:08,104 --> 00:13:09,845
in the supply chain that are forming.

228
00:13:09,866 --> 00:13:14,609
So there is an existing automotive supply
chain, including our sister company,

229
00:13:14,829 --> 00:13:15,509
that...

230
00:13:15,602 --> 00:13:18,722
works really well and it has worked for a
very long time.

231
00:13:19,443 --> 00:13:27,305
But it depends on a few things, which is
consistent, predictable volumes that are

232
00:13:27,305 --> 00:13:29,145
actually going to play out.

233
00:13:29,145 --> 00:13:31,326
And we're seeing several forces that have
adjusted that.

234
00:13:31,326 --> 00:13:33,106
So electrification is one of them.

235
00:13:33,367 --> 00:13:38,608
Fragmentation of supply base and the OEMs
and different markets and things.

236
00:13:38,828 --> 00:13:42,549
And so these different forces have added,
have created some cracks in the supply

237
00:13:42,549 --> 00:13:42,809
chain.

238
00:13:42,809 --> 00:13:44,409
And that's Edison's filling

239
00:13:44,450 --> 00:13:46,071
one or a few of those cracks.

240
00:13:46,071 --> 00:13:48,513
And most of those tend to be in the new
technology area.

241
00:13:48,513 --> 00:13:52,416
So that's why, at least outwardly facing,
that's a lot of the work we're doing.

242
00:13:52,416 --> 00:13:57,421
But we have similarly interesting
discussions about companies getting into

243
00:13:57,421 --> 00:13:58,842
the hybridization space.

244
00:13:58,842 --> 00:14:04,126
Also, existing companies who are building
internal combustion or conventional

245
00:14:04,126 --> 00:14:07,729
vehicle components and systems that are
declining in volumes.

246
00:14:07,729 --> 00:14:12,893
And now suddenly the math around their
assembly processes are changing.

247
00:14:13,410 --> 00:14:15,851
We tend to be a good fit for that as well.

248
00:14:16,512 --> 00:14:20,956
But I mean, I'm personally, and then also
the company, completely technology

249
00:14:20,956 --> 00:14:21,356
agnostic.

250
00:14:21,356 --> 00:14:26,100
And I think when we talked about this
previously, right, like I love electric

251
00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:26,900
vehicles.

252
00:14:27,181 --> 00:14:28,402
They're a lot of fun to drive.

253
00:14:28,402 --> 00:14:31,244
They do a lot of good things and a lot of
good use cases.

254
00:14:31,825 --> 00:14:34,847
They certainly aren't the answer for all
situations right now.

255
00:14:35,448 --> 00:14:37,109
They might be in the future.

256
00:14:37,209 --> 00:14:41,533
But there are several assumptions and
things that need to be overcome to get to

257
00:14:41,533 --> 00:14:42,433
that point.

258
00:14:42,482 --> 00:14:46,863
including costs and infrastructure and
stuff that everyone talks about in the

259
00:14:46,863 --> 00:14:54,225
space and back to this framework right
about in a world of uncertainty don't

260
00:14:54,225 --> 00:14:58,926
limit your options like that's generally
the way that I've thought about and this

261
00:14:58,926 --> 00:15:02,747
has been fueled by some past podcasts but
the way that I think about this

262
00:15:03,227 --> 00:15:07,108
decarbonization effort is yeah invest
heavily in electrification let's continue

263
00:15:07,108 --> 00:15:11,109
to grow and improve the technology improve
the infrastructure but it's

264
00:15:11,718 --> 00:15:15,939
unnecessarily choose that there needs to
be a single winner in this decarbonization

265
00:15:15,939 --> 00:15:16,699
effort.

266
00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:19,821
And that's, I think what the industry or
what kind of the correcting force in the

267
00:15:19,821 --> 00:15:21,762
market seems to be showing right now as
well.

268
00:15:21,862 --> 00:15:24,123
Yeah, I pretty much agree with you.

269
00:15:24,123 --> 00:15:29,225
Um, and I think, uh, not to go down too
much of a tangent.

270
00:15:29,445 --> 00:15:35,688
I know last time we spoke, I believe you
had just either taken delivery or about to

271
00:15:35,688 --> 00:15:40,049
take delivery of a, I think it was the
Jeep Wrangler four by E.

272
00:15:40,318 --> 00:15:43,520
I was curious if you did take a delivery
of that.

273
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,903
And I would just be kind of curious as
what has been your experience with that

274
00:15:47,903 --> 00:15:52,106
vehicle, kind of talking about this
technology and talking about some of these

275
00:15:52,106 --> 00:15:57,009
companies that are taking a different kind
of the full approach.

276
00:15:57,009 --> 00:16:02,233
And I just be curious what your experience
has been as a consumer.

277
00:16:02,233 --> 00:16:04,695
Yeah, I think there's a few interesting
things to point to here.

278
00:16:04,695 --> 00:16:08,830
So on overall fantastic driving.

279
00:16:08,830 --> 00:16:14,112
Experience like and compared to the
conventional Wrangler It's it's so much

280
00:16:14,112 --> 00:16:17,973
better when you have a nice charge and you
have the ability Yeah, you have that low

281
00:16:17,973 --> 00:16:22,415
end torque and the two systems working
together From a fun perspective.

282
00:16:22,415 --> 00:16:23,335
It's great.

283
00:16:23,576 --> 00:16:30,779
It's also there's challenges Controls this
or not that the calibration is Leaves a

284
00:16:30,779 --> 00:16:32,379
little for desire to be desired.

285
00:16:32,379 --> 00:16:33,520
There's also right now.

286
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,781
There's a recall waiting on a software
flash it's like I can't charge the battery

287
00:16:36,781 --> 00:16:37,490
because

288
00:16:37,490 --> 00:16:41,813
Oh, it could start on fire, which that's
less than I ideally.

289
00:16:41,833 --> 00:16:44,935
So I have a worse vehicle than I would if
I'd had no battery because I have

290
00:16:44,935 --> 00:16:46,557
additional weight that I'm looking at as
I'm so.

291
00:16:46,557 --> 00:16:47,918
I get what you're saying, though.

292
00:16:47,918 --> 00:16:48,838
It's totally valid.

293
00:16:48,838 --> 00:16:49,018
Yeah.

294
00:16:49,018 --> 00:16:54,162
And I think that's that was a big topic we
talked about in the last podcast, which

295
00:16:54,162 --> 00:16:57,765
was around just software updates and
having to deal with it.

296
00:16:57,765 --> 00:17:03,009
Because I assume this one's you have to
take into a dealer to get the update done,

297
00:17:03,009 --> 00:17:03,809
correct?

298
00:17:05,182 --> 00:17:09,404
Yeah, and I mean you see it too like the
dealer network, right?

299
00:17:09,544 --> 00:17:11,845
Especially the Stellantis organization.

300
00:17:11,845 --> 00:17:14,226
They don't have a ton of electrification
experience, especially in the US.

301
00:17:14,226 --> 00:17:18,069
So it's not like you're dealing with high
voltage experts for the most part when

302
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:18,929
you're bringing in.

303
00:17:18,929 --> 00:17:22,551
I mean there's a few of them, but not
everyone at the dealership is a high

304
00:17:22,551 --> 00:17:23,471
voltage expert.

305
00:17:23,471 --> 00:17:28,054
So that's been an interesting learning
opportunity, but I think maybe the most

306
00:17:28,054 --> 00:17:29,635
interesting takeaway I've had.

307
00:17:29,755 --> 00:17:34,897
So I have changed my job location as well
as my home location.

308
00:17:35,294 --> 00:17:39,497
since I bought, I guess I'm leasing the
vehicles since I, since I started the

309
00:17:39,497 --> 00:17:44,542
lease on it and it has completely changed
the value proposition for me.

310
00:17:44,542 --> 00:17:50,426
So my previous location for better, for
worse, unfortunately not for that.

311
00:17:51,608 --> 00:17:55,992
So it's, it's still, it's still a really
fun vehicle and I love driving it around.

312
00:17:55,992 --> 00:18:01,116
We try to optimize and use it for the
local shorter cause it has 27 or so miles

313
00:18:01,116 --> 00:18:02,637
of, of range nominally.

314
00:18:02,637 --> 00:18:03,217
So

315
00:18:03,478 --> 00:18:09,261
You can get to a decent amount of places,
but that type of driving made up a lot of

316
00:18:09,261 --> 00:18:11,843
my driving in the old situation.

317
00:18:11,843 --> 00:18:15,806
Even my commute, it was like 35 miles
round trip or something like that.

318
00:18:15,806 --> 00:18:17,767
So I had most of the way there.

319
00:18:18,728 --> 00:18:25,692
Now I live in an area that I have a second
kid coming and I want a little bit more

320
00:18:25,692 --> 00:18:25,913
space.

321
00:18:25,913 --> 00:18:29,055
I'm not too far from my things.

322
00:18:29,055 --> 00:18:31,436
I don't live as close to all the stuff
that I used to do.

323
00:18:31,436 --> 00:18:33,537
So the daily driving is a little longer.

324
00:18:33,890 --> 00:18:37,911
And I also don't live in Port Huron, which
is where the organization is.

325
00:18:37,911 --> 00:18:44,234
So I, I now have a fairly long highway
commute when I go into work and, uh,

326
00:18:44,234 --> 00:18:47,976
Wrangler is not an aerodynamically
efficient vehicle by any means.

327
00:18:47,976 --> 00:18:52,277
Also 27 miles of range doesn't do much for
me when I'm driving whatever it is, like

328
00:18:52,277 --> 00:18:53,618
70 miles one way.

329
00:18:53,618 --> 00:18:56,879
So, uh, it's not the right vehicle for me
in this.

330
00:18:56,879 --> 00:18:59,080
It was the right vehicle in the old
situation.

331
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,082
Like now it's likely a f***.

332
00:19:02,082 --> 00:19:07,064
full hybrid would be if I could optimize
based on, if I did the optimization

333
00:19:07,064 --> 00:19:12,447
problem based on the grid I have here as
well as my driving, like my commuter

334
00:19:12,447 --> 00:19:17,010
vehicle I believe should be a full hybrid
or even a battery electric vehicle with a

335
00:19:17,010 --> 00:19:19,331
reasonable range would be better.

336
00:19:19,331 --> 00:19:20,631
Interesting, gotcha.

337
00:19:21,292 --> 00:19:24,594
And sorry, I didn't realize, I'd heard
something, but I didn't realize the

338
00:19:24,594 --> 00:19:28,376
severity of the recall for the four by E.

339
00:19:28,636 --> 00:19:31,537
And that is kind of one of the interesting
things that

340
00:19:32,222 --> 00:19:37,065
I kind of, I, I see the value proposition
of plug-in hybrids, but I, I feel like

341
00:19:37,065 --> 00:19:39,026
I've kind of gotten back and I just had
curiosity.

342
00:19:39,026 --> 00:19:43,929
Do you plug it in pretty regularly or
would you just, yeah.

343
00:19:43,929 --> 00:19:45,510
I mean, when it, when I can, yes.

344
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:48,732
Cause I mean, in part because I believe
the sustainability impact.

345
00:19:48,772 --> 00:19:53,535
Um, but then also it's just a lot more fun
to drive when it has a full charge rate.

346
00:19:53,535 --> 00:19:57,202
Well, it's interesting because we've had a
couple of guests on that kind of are.

347
00:19:57,202 --> 00:19:58,763
very pro plug-in hybrid.

348
00:19:58,763 --> 00:20:01,245
And then there's also, I think it's
starting to change, but there's some

349
00:20:01,245 --> 00:20:02,266
pretty good statistics.

350
00:20:02,266 --> 00:20:06,269
And I feel like you being who you are and
working in the industry, you would

351
00:20:06,269 --> 00:20:09,312
actually plug it in, but there there've
been some pretty good statistics showing

352
00:20:09,312 --> 00:20:12,254
like people even with plug-in hybrids
don't even plug them in that much.

353
00:20:12,495 --> 00:20:15,697
And some of that had to do with maybe they
don't have a place to plug in overnight

354
00:20:15,697 --> 00:20:17,198
and other reasons.

355
00:20:17,379 --> 00:20:24,405
But yeah, it's funny because now I have
our daily road tripper kind of vehicles, a

356
00:20:24,405 --> 00:20:25,725
Tesla Model Y.

357
00:20:26,074 --> 00:20:31,198
And then our kind of fun, uh, cause, uh,
being, I actually, I don't know if I told

358
00:20:31,198 --> 00:20:34,721
you this, uh, I live in Bend, Oregon now,
which is much more kind of rural and kind

359
00:20:34,721 --> 00:20:38,745
of a ski town and there's a lot of great
hiking and kind of forest road.

360
00:20:38,745 --> 00:20:44,349
So for those adventures, I, we actually
have a 1987 Land Rover Defender 90.

361
00:20:44,750 --> 00:20:48,934
And so those things can not be more
farther apart, but also more fun in their

362
00:20:48,934 --> 00:20:50,495
own specific ways.

363
00:20:50,555 --> 00:20:53,197
And I, I kind of, uh, I am actually
planning.

364
00:20:53,322 --> 00:20:56,383
We had another guest on here that
specializes in electrification of old

365
00:20:56,383 --> 00:20:57,383
defenders.

366
00:20:57,543 --> 00:21:01,385
And so I'm looking at maybe doing that
with ours, but it to me has just become

367
00:21:01,385 --> 00:21:03,806
like pretty clear that one or the other.

368
00:21:03,806 --> 00:21:10,909
I mean, the beauty of that Land Rover is
for as much crap as British automakers get

369
00:21:10,909 --> 00:21:12,689
for bad electrics in this car.

370
00:21:12,689 --> 00:21:15,430
It pretty much just goes to the battery
and then the headlights.

371
00:21:15,591 --> 00:21:19,632
And I will be honest right now, it is not
running cause the alternator just broke.

372
00:21:19,632 --> 00:21:22,773
But other than that, there is so little
wiring in this car.

373
00:21:22,978 --> 00:21:27,921
that it is really kind of just interesting
showing the, in some ways, I think almost

374
00:21:27,921 --> 00:21:32,204
the peak of like the fully internal
combustion engine versus like the fully

375
00:21:32,204 --> 00:21:36,627
electric system and just having kind of a
product for each use case.

376
00:21:37,147 --> 00:21:42,231
And, uh, I, I definitely think plug-in
hybrids will be a thing and definitely a

377
00:21:42,231 --> 00:21:47,695
kind of maybe stop gap or at least a way
to get people introduce the idea of

378
00:21:47,695 --> 00:21:50,857
plugging in and charging, but it's, it's
just kind of interesting here, your

379
00:21:50,857 --> 00:21:52,257
experience with it and just.

380
00:21:52,318 --> 00:21:58,659
what we've been seeing in the space
around, um, whether people are going to, I

381
00:21:58,659 --> 00:22:01,400
think there's definitely a good portion,
uh, as you probably know, like the middle

382
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,322
of the country where, uh, the charging
infrastructure still isn't that great and

383
00:22:06,322 --> 00:22:09,983
people are kind of hesitant to go fully
with it, but there's also the use case of

384
00:22:09,983 --> 00:22:13,964
like, Hey, it's a lot less than gas in
theory, if you get the right, uh, plug in

385
00:22:13,964 --> 00:22:15,744
hybrid and like you're talking about it
meets your needs.

386
00:22:15,744 --> 00:22:19,245
So I think there's definitely an interest
there with

387
00:22:19,454 --> 00:22:23,176
Yeah, I mean it was a 110 outlet that I
used and it charges overnight.

388
00:22:23,176 --> 00:22:25,056
It's a 15 kilowatt hour pack.

389
00:22:25,257 --> 00:22:29,339
I feel good about that from the materials
and the effort that goes into building

390
00:22:29,339 --> 00:22:29,719
that pack.

391
00:22:29,719 --> 00:22:32,861
And yeah, if I lived in the current, in
the old situation, it's the perfect

392
00:22:32,861 --> 00:22:35,682
vehicle, I think, but, uh, just, just not
right now.

393
00:22:35,682 --> 00:22:35,883
Yeah.

394
00:22:35,883 --> 00:22:36,783
And you said it was a lease.

395
00:22:36,783 --> 00:22:39,965
So what are you, I mean, it sounds like
maybe you still have a little bit of time,

396
00:22:39,965 --> 00:22:43,747
but you're probably leaning towards just
kind of more of the traditional hybrid.

397
00:22:43,747 --> 00:22:47,649
If you were to do another one or have you
given a much thought of what you would

398
00:22:47,649 --> 00:22:48,729
replace it with?

399
00:22:50,674 --> 00:22:54,755
Yeah, so we live in a suburban-like area,
right?

400
00:22:54,755 --> 00:22:57,016
We'll have two kids here soon.

401
00:22:57,216 --> 00:23:02,538
And actually, both vehicles are up for
consideration of what we want to do.

402
00:23:02,538 --> 00:23:09,081
And I did the one vehicle thing for some
time back in, which worked well during the

403
00:23:09,081 --> 00:23:12,242
COVID time, but not currently given our
boundary conditions.

404
00:23:12,242 --> 00:23:14,283
So we need two vehicles.

405
00:23:14,283 --> 00:23:17,905
And if you think about the primary
drivers, right, of what goes into the

406
00:23:17,905 --> 00:23:20,625
decision, it's I make a...

407
00:23:20,850 --> 00:23:23,671
long highway commute two to three times a
week.

408
00:23:25,212 --> 00:23:31,454
We need some way to get our family into
the vehicle and move in a safe manner

409
00:23:31,454 --> 00:23:32,375
around.

410
00:23:33,515 --> 00:23:39,318
We'll take a handful of quote unquote road
trips, which is probably a couple hour

411
00:23:39,318 --> 00:23:42,879
drive in one direction with the full
family per year.

412
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,641
And so there's a whole conversation to be
had about

413
00:23:47,914 --> 00:23:52,136
What's a rational approach and how do you
rationally optimize those different

414
00:23:52,136 --> 00:23:52,417
things?

415
00:23:52,417 --> 00:23:53,377
What's a fun car?

416
00:23:53,377 --> 00:24:00,242
Ultimately where we yeah, where we seem to
be settling is like a reasonably cheap,

417
00:24:00,242 --> 00:24:06,326
affordable highway vehicle that I, you
know, drive ideally a full hybrid.

418
00:24:06,326 --> 00:24:12,510
Like I said, I think that's I think that's
an efficient application for it for that.

419
00:24:13,391 --> 00:24:17,593
And then the larger SUV of some sort.

420
00:24:18,666 --> 00:24:22,869
I mean, I guess electric could be nice,
but at the same time, yeah, the cost is a

421
00:24:22,869 --> 00:24:23,529
factor.

422
00:24:23,529 --> 00:24:30,654
So some type of an electrified SUV and a
highway vehicle is likely what we'll go

423
00:24:30,654 --> 00:24:31,354
with.

424
00:24:32,175 --> 00:24:34,757
But I mean, there's so many different
factors that go into that, right?

425
00:24:34,757 --> 00:24:41,602
I mean, if it is my work vehicle, it needs
to be professional enough, right?

426
00:24:41,602 --> 00:24:43,263
Like it has to be.

427
00:24:43,543 --> 00:24:46,125
So yeah.

428
00:24:46,125 --> 00:24:47,114
And also like if...

429
00:24:47,114 --> 00:24:51,875
If I get a high highway optimized vehicle
for that work scenario, it's likely going

430
00:24:51,875 --> 00:24:56,457
to be a small vehicle, which then likely
does not make it the thing that we take on

431
00:24:56,457 --> 00:24:57,178
road trips.

432
00:24:57,178 --> 00:25:00,379
So then the other vehicle has to have some
way to be able to go on road trips.

433
00:25:00,659 --> 00:25:00,859
Right.

434
00:25:00,859 --> 00:25:04,741
Just kind of the right balance of the
purpose and the need for each vehicle.

435
00:25:05,521 --> 00:25:08,602
Um, yeah, kind of rambling, but that's how
we've thought about it so far.

436
00:25:08,602 --> 00:25:09,323
No, no, I get that.

437
00:25:09,323 --> 00:25:11,263
That's always kind of a tough decision.

438
00:25:11,263 --> 00:25:15,205
And, uh, I mean, for us, I had looked
originally at getting something a little

439
00:25:15,205 --> 00:25:16,578
sportier than the Y, but.

440
00:25:16,578 --> 00:25:22,700
We have now three at the time, two dogs
and one's a very large dog.

441
00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:25,101
So we kind of needed something with a
hatchback.

442
00:25:25,501 --> 00:25:32,384
And, um, I mean, I've only had my car now
for pretty much maybe 18 months, maybe a

443
00:25:32,384 --> 00:25:36,226
little under, and we've already put over
40,000 miles on it.

444
00:25:36,806 --> 00:25:42,428
Um, and then the defender, we, we've put a
bit of miles, but that's actually just

445
00:25:42,428 --> 00:25:45,209
been around town and up into the mountain,
so it's

446
00:25:45,266 --> 00:25:51,530
It's definitely a lot less, but, um, that
also is just, I mean, that's a whole

447
00:25:51,530 --> 00:25:52,250
different experience.

448
00:25:52,250 --> 00:25:53,732
It takes five minutes to get it started.

449
00:25:53,732 --> 00:25:57,814
It's like, it's a great weekend vehicle
where it's, you want to enjoy a classic,

450
00:25:57,814 --> 00:26:04,199
uh, off-roading truck, but it's not
practical when you're in a rush or you

451
00:26:04,199 --> 00:26:09,102
have to drive a few hours, um, but it is
so much fun, just the character and the,

452
00:26:09,102 --> 00:26:11,344
uh, history behind those vehicles.

453
00:26:11,624 --> 00:26:12,424
With.

454
00:26:12,625 --> 00:26:12,805
Yeah.

455
00:26:12,805 --> 00:26:13,885
I mean, if I can.

456
00:26:14,534 --> 00:26:15,395
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

457
00:26:15,395 --> 00:26:17,056
I mean, so you're making me think of
something.

458
00:26:17,056 --> 00:26:20,598
And this is one of the things that sits
with me pretty deep in my stomach at a

459
00:26:20,598 --> 00:26:24,141
time of like, right, you're talking,
you're listening to this, right?

460
00:26:24,141 --> 00:26:28,103
You hear two people who are obviously in
the sustainable transportation space.

461
00:26:28,263 --> 00:26:32,366
You can hear several things here that are
not optimized for sustainability, right?

462
00:26:32,366 --> 00:26:32,726
For sure.

463
00:26:32,726 --> 00:26:35,829
The fact that I live far from work and I
have a highway commute, not great.

464
00:26:35,829 --> 00:26:39,151
The fact that I live in a suburban area,
you have a lot of people who say, well,

465
00:26:39,151 --> 00:26:43,373
everyone should be thrown into city
centers and there's some validity there.

466
00:26:43,658 --> 00:26:47,860
But this is a something I'm still
struggling with and exploring.

467
00:26:47,860 --> 00:26:49,941
I think I've gotten the closest guy.

468
00:26:49,941 --> 00:26:54,724
Guy Larry Burns has been a good coach of
sorts and has been a podcast guest.

469
00:26:54,724 --> 00:26:59,366
A few times he, he led R and D for GM and
was right at the heart of the, when, when

470
00:26:59,366 --> 00:27:03,408
they developed the skateboard platform
back in 2000, he, he was leading the team

471
00:27:03,408 --> 00:27:07,751
and started kind of the electric vehicle
revolution, but talking with him about it,

472
00:27:07,751 --> 00:27:12,733
he's like, well, somehow in this whole
conversation we're missing.

473
00:27:13,046 --> 00:27:21,111
We're missing the suburban and or rural
use case, which isn't somehow there isn't

474
00:27:21,111 --> 00:27:24,533
like, I don't live here because I hate the
environment.

475
00:27:25,174 --> 00:27:26,855
I do care and I want to do the right
things.

476
00:27:26,855 --> 00:27:30,677
I'm like, I'm making these trying to make
these conscious decisions with the way I

477
00:27:30,717 --> 00:27:34,200
transport myself and my family as well as
the way I live my life.

478
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:39,803
But at the same time, somehow in my life,
I've come to the conclusion that having

479
00:27:39,864 --> 00:27:42,882
some land for my kids to run around,
having a quiet area.

480
00:27:42,882 --> 00:27:48,723
having a safer place for less fewer
vehicles running around, that matters to

481
00:27:48,723 --> 00:27:50,403
me.

482
00:27:51,724 --> 00:27:56,025
That conclusion and my perspective has
somehow been missed for the most part in

483
00:27:56,025 --> 00:27:59,146
the sustainability transportation
landscape.

484
00:27:59,146 --> 00:28:02,187
I don't know exactly what to do with it
because I know this is super complex, but

485
00:28:02,187 --> 00:28:04,187
that's an issue that I've been struggling
with.

486
00:28:05,108 --> 00:28:09,429
For driving 40,000 miles in 18, it's a lot
of miles to put on any vehicle.

487
00:28:09,429 --> 00:28:10,689
Right, right.

488
00:28:10,689 --> 00:28:11,690
However, still.

489
00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:12,731
But you still have made.

490
00:28:12,731 --> 00:28:13,011
Yeah.

491
00:28:13,011 --> 00:28:14,172
And I, I completely agree.

492
00:28:14,172 --> 00:28:16,254
I mean, that was, um, yeah.

493
00:28:16,254 --> 00:28:18,156
And I know this is before that.

494
00:28:18,156 --> 00:28:20,599
I mean, uh, like I said, I live in a ski
town now.

495
00:28:20,599 --> 00:28:23,801
I've always been to skiing a lot of just
kind of outdoor sports.

496
00:28:23,922 --> 00:28:29,327
And so, um, before that I had a super
outback about the least sexy, but one of

497
00:28:29,327 --> 00:28:33,111
the most utilitarian cars just for like
sort of the skis in the back go.

498
00:28:33,111 --> 00:28:35,633
It's got all wheel drive, got good enough
ground clearance.

499
00:28:36,726 --> 00:28:40,687
And even then when I was living in
Portland, I was surprised how many miles I

500
00:28:40,687 --> 00:28:42,967
was putting on that thing on a regular
basis.

501
00:28:43,087 --> 00:28:45,948
And I figured, you know what, if I go
electric, I'll bet you do, I'll do

502
00:28:45,948 --> 00:28:50,110
similar, maybe since I won't have to worry
about oil changes and all that stuff,

503
00:28:50,110 --> 00:28:51,670
it'll go up and it did.

504
00:28:51,670 --> 00:28:55,251
And then some I've actually been driving
way more now.

505
00:28:55,251 --> 00:28:58,412
And it's not just because I went to
electric, it's a couple of friends moved

506
00:28:58,412 --> 00:28:59,772
to the Midwest and all these things.

507
00:28:59,772 --> 00:29:03,713
So I've done road trips in it that I
hadn't done previously.

508
00:29:04,022 --> 00:29:07,445
But I mean, that, that was a big thing
reason I pretty much had to choose.

509
00:29:07,445 --> 00:29:10,807
There were, there were other EVs out there
that I thought were cool and stuff, but,

510
00:29:11,228 --> 00:29:16,373
um, the charging infrastructure of the,
uh, I mean, where we are, I mean, you

511
00:29:16,373 --> 00:29:20,597
can't see it now, but a day or two ago,
those trees were covered in snow.

512
00:29:21,017 --> 00:29:23,880
And so, yeah, I need something that I can
go through.

513
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,364
Mound passes pretty easily or easily
enough and not, uh, with snow tires.

514
00:29:28,364 --> 00:29:29,985
I don't have to be too worried about it.

515
00:29:30,506 --> 00:29:31,646
that really just left kind of the model.

516
00:29:31,646 --> 00:29:34,829
Why at the end of it, it's like the only
option there were others that were, I

517
00:29:34,829 --> 00:29:37,911
mean, obviously the Rivian was kind of
cool, but charging infrastructure really

518
00:29:37,911 --> 00:29:39,712
wasn't still there for that thing.

519
00:29:40,313 --> 00:29:45,097
And yeah, it totally came to, um, even
though you go around here and a lot of

520
00:29:45,097 --> 00:29:48,720
people have diesel pickups and all these
things, although now Rivians are a damn

521
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,644
dozen, but at the time it just wasn't that
easy and that feasible to find.

522
00:29:53,644 --> 00:29:56,445
That was about the only thing that could
meet those.

523
00:29:56,910 --> 00:30:00,291
needs where it's like, yeah, I'm going to
have to go a couple hundred miles at

524
00:30:00,291 --> 00:30:00,491
least.

525
00:30:00,491 --> 00:30:04,373
I mean, it's about 150, 180 to get to
Portland from here.

526
00:30:04,373 --> 00:30:07,234
And that is not always in great
conditions.

527
00:30:07,234 --> 00:30:08,154
That'll be with snow.

528
00:30:08,154 --> 00:30:09,635
That'll be with ice.

529
00:30:09,975 --> 00:30:14,577
And I mean, these are exactly what you're
telling that I, and I, I get why some

530
00:30:14,577 --> 00:30:20,520
people don't want to get Tesla, yada, but,
um, it is funny when you start talking

531
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,241
about the rural side of stuff and that
kind of infrastructure and like making it

532
00:30:24,241 --> 00:30:25,061
easier.

533
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:29,052
Um, bend is a little bit of a weird city
in that the fact that it does have really

534
00:30:29,052 --> 00:30:33,674
good biking infrastructure and stuff like
that, but, um, once you get out of the

535
00:30:33,674 --> 00:30:39,938
city and like I said, you, there's about
one small town between here and Boise,

536
00:30:39,938 --> 00:30:44,501
Idaho, the rest is just open Eastern
Oregon and there's been times I've driven

537
00:30:44,501 --> 00:30:47,062
south of here where I don't even see a car
for hours.

538
00:30:47,062 --> 00:30:50,984
Uh, when I was coming up from Nevada, just
a few, uh, a couple of months ago.

539
00:30:51,485 --> 00:30:53,186
And so it's, it's one of those things that
like,

540
00:30:53,186 --> 00:30:58,848
There really are a few choices that if you
want to go on and, uh, go somewhere remote

541
00:30:58,848 --> 00:31:03,910
or kind of at just kind of, uh, with no
pre-planning that really still, in my

542
00:31:03,910 --> 00:31:07,972
opinion, is the only option you could
maybe get away with a river.

543
00:31:07,972 --> 00:31:13,314
And, but, uh, I mean, my record for doing
a road trip and an EV in a days from here

544
00:31:13,314 --> 00:31:19,737
to Phoenix, which was about, uh, just
under 1200 miles and that's a lot of

545
00:31:19,737 --> 00:31:21,517
driving, I don't care what car you're in.

546
00:31:21,726 --> 00:31:25,488
And that, that pretty much, uh, I mean, I
even, I remember I pulled up, I was in,

547
00:31:25,488 --> 00:31:27,530
God, where was I?

548
00:31:27,530 --> 00:31:30,152
I was, uh, north of Vegas still.

549
00:31:30,152 --> 00:31:33,074
I want to say it was Beattie, Nevada or
something.

550
00:31:33,074 --> 00:31:35,596
I mean, there's so much Nevada that's
especially when you're driving down there,

551
00:31:35,596 --> 00:31:36,396
that's just nothing.

552
00:31:36,396 --> 00:31:40,699
And then you come like, like these small
little gas station oasis is, and there's

553
00:31:40,699 --> 00:31:45,743
now chargers at some of them and I've been
hitting all the Tesla ones, no real issue.

554
00:31:45,743 --> 00:31:46,724
Some of them were the older ones.

555
00:31:46,724 --> 00:31:49,865
So they charge a little bit slower, but it
was always enough that like

556
00:31:49,898 --> 00:31:52,900
I was there for maybe 10, 15 minutes and
I'd be able to drive for another hour and

557
00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:53,560
a half, two hours.

558
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,483
So it's kind of the perfect amount of time
to break up, run, get something wasn't too

559
00:31:57,483 --> 00:31:58,523
big of an issue.

560
00:31:58,944 --> 00:32:03,087
But I pulled into BD and there was a
Rivian and not only was it a Rivian, I

561
00:32:03,087 --> 00:32:07,270
think it was an R1S, which maybe at the
time had just come out.

562
00:32:07,270 --> 00:32:10,732
It was a Rivian R1S and it was towing a
little camper behind it.

563
00:32:10,732 --> 00:32:13,674
And it had pulled up to these charges next
to the Tesla ones.

564
00:32:13,674 --> 00:32:18,617
And unfortunately, that one DC fast
charger was only 60 kilowatts, which...

565
00:32:19,074 --> 00:32:22,135
I mean, you have to know what even that
means for a fast charger, but that one was

566
00:32:22,135 --> 00:32:22,935
broken.

567
00:32:22,935 --> 00:32:29,878
And so there was this Rivian towing a
little camper on a AC charger.

568
00:32:30,518 --> 00:32:34,220
And I just could not, like, I had no idea
how long that guy must've been there to

569
00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:35,820
get to the next thing.

570
00:32:35,981 --> 00:32:39,122
And I mean, I felt, I mean, it was
beautiful car and I felt bad for the guy.

571
00:32:39,282 --> 00:32:43,064
Um, and maybe that's purposely why he was
telling a camper just to hang out at these

572
00:32:43,064 --> 00:32:47,505
things, but it was just like, yeah, I
don't, uh,

573
00:32:47,518 --> 00:32:48,758
I like the car a lot.

574
00:32:48,758 --> 00:32:52,081
I don't know if it's my favorite car ever
by any means for the model Y, but it was

575
00:32:52,081 --> 00:32:53,742
like, yeah, for my needs.

576
00:32:53,742 --> 00:32:59,946
That was about the only thing that I could
do these road trips or do, um, high speed,

577
00:32:59,946 --> 00:33:05,750
uh, or not high speed, but, uh, going out
to really rural parts of, uh, actually all

578
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:09,693
over the country, but especially Eastern
and, uh, Southern Oregon and not have to

579
00:33:09,693 --> 00:33:10,793
worry about it.

580
00:33:11,074 --> 00:33:14,997
And I think, uh, that's, and I totally
get, if people are doing that, like that's

581
00:33:14,997 --> 00:33:16,797
where a plugin hybrid, um,

582
00:33:16,962 --> 00:33:17,742
totally makes sense.

583
00:33:17,742 --> 00:33:19,763
And, uh, I, it's kind of interesting.

584
00:33:19,763 --> 00:33:22,945
My mother-in-law just got the Volvo.

585
00:33:23,205 --> 00:33:24,626
God, I can't remember what it is.

586
00:33:24,626 --> 00:33:28,508
XC 90, the plug and hybrid one and really
beautiful car on the inside.

587
00:33:28,508 --> 00:33:32,410
But of course the one thing it has issues
with is the actual battery.

588
00:33:32,450 --> 00:33:36,673
She had to take it in and all this stuff,
the actual, uh, internal combustion engine

589
00:33:36,673 --> 00:33:38,493
car, part of it worked great.

590
00:33:38,794 --> 00:33:44,197
And it was funny because, uh, she had
replaced it with a Mercedes and, uh, about

591
00:33:44,197 --> 00:33:45,377
six months ago.

592
00:33:45,550 --> 00:33:50,655
Her husband, my father-in-law had just
replaced their other Mercedes with a model

593
00:33:50,655 --> 00:33:56,496
Y and what was really, which is obviously
not a common, uh, use case for a lot of

594
00:33:56,496 --> 00:33:57,890
people replacing our going electric.

595
00:33:57,890 --> 00:34:02,082
But what was so fascinating to me was she
was so disappointed in the charging of her

596
00:34:02,082 --> 00:34:06,765
car because the AC charging was so much
slower than the Tesla and all these other

597
00:34:06,765 --> 00:34:07,330
things.

598
00:34:07,330 --> 00:34:08,530
And they go on a lot of road trips too.

599
00:34:08,530 --> 00:34:12,630
We met them out in steamboat Springs
recently in Colorado.

600
00:34:12,630 --> 00:34:14,422
And so I think for them having

601
00:34:14,422 --> 00:34:17,962
the combustion engine side of it for sure
made sense, but it is just kind of

602
00:34:17,962 --> 00:34:22,884
interesting where, uh, you, you talk about
these experiences that either defy what

603
00:34:22,884 --> 00:34:27,005
people need a car for, or you have these
companies and then you have these

604
00:34:27,005 --> 00:34:32,807
companies who are building these plugin
hybrids that, um, I, I think it makes so

605
00:34:32,807 --> 00:34:36,007
much sense on paper, but then the
execution of it or some other issue kind

606
00:34:36,007 --> 00:34:39,268
of comes up that makes it just like, well,
maybe they should have just bought a

607
00:34:39,268 --> 00:34:43,710
combustion engine car from a consumer side
for that experience or

608
00:34:43,710 --> 00:34:47,952
an EV but I think for a lot of people it
just is it needs to be an easier

609
00:34:47,952 --> 00:34:53,396
experience where you don't have to Pull a
Rivian up pretty much a hundred thousand

610
00:34:53,396 --> 00:34:57,359
dollar car and then wait five hours for it
to charge and an AC thing Just is I know

611
00:34:57,359 --> 00:35:01,862
and I realize that's not the majority of
people's experiences But you see something

612
00:35:01,862 --> 00:35:05,485
like that and like I don't care where you
live That's not gonna catch on if that's

613
00:35:05,485 --> 00:35:08,186
what you have to do To do these things.

614
00:35:08,186 --> 00:35:12,829
Yeah, sure It's I think it's still early,
but I had some friends

615
00:35:13,102 --> 00:35:17,883
I think out your way who working on a
hydrogen fuel cell truck that I think will

616
00:35:17,883 --> 00:35:22,844
certain There's a lot that goes into this
I think the initial reaction should be

617
00:35:22,844 --> 00:35:27,426
skepticism when you hear what I just said
of a hydrogen fuel side truck but I think

618
00:35:27,426 --> 00:35:31,067
they have the technology to actually make
this happen in communities like where

619
00:35:31,067 --> 00:35:36,188
you're living which I definitely keeping a
keeping eyes on and then Yeah, another one

620
00:35:36,188 --> 00:35:40,269
of the key trends that we've seen a lot is
a Ton of different types of trailers are

621
00:35:40,269 --> 00:35:41,634
getting electrified right now

622
00:35:41,634 --> 00:35:46,216
for some of the reason that you mentioned,
right, of whether it's a camper trailer,

623
00:35:46,216 --> 00:35:50,738
or if it's, you've seen some of that work
even in the long haul trucking space, or a

624
00:35:50,738 --> 00:35:56,660
few different applications, but throwing
some battery, e-axles, having some way to

625
00:35:56,660 --> 00:36:01,102
get regen and provide, hopefully at least
offset the weight of your trailer, because

626
00:36:01,102 --> 00:36:05,864
yeah, right now the tech just isn't there
for any vehicle really to be able to tow

627
00:36:05,864 --> 00:36:07,545
and also get reasonable range.

628
00:36:07,545 --> 00:36:08,785
Yeah, I think, I mean,

629
00:36:09,218 --> 00:36:12,199
talking about that obviously the big one
was the cyber truck and that's what

630
00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:15,641
everyone was kind of so hoping for was to
have that range and I guess maybe it has

631
00:36:15,641 --> 00:36:19,864
this battery extender we'll see what
happens there but yeah I mean that I think

632
00:36:19,864 --> 00:36:25,107
is really the one area that for
electrification and I get it that's a lot

633
00:36:25,107 --> 00:36:29,929
of batteries and a lot of weight to be
hauling around if you only tow a few times

634
00:36:29,929 --> 00:36:34,732
a year which is the case for most people
and I mean I've even done stuff with our

635
00:36:34,732 --> 00:36:37,533
Model Y obviously it's only a

636
00:36:37,698 --> 00:36:42,321
a couple thousand pounds, but honestly, as
long as you don't care if it's just around

637
00:36:42,321 --> 00:36:46,344
town or you're only going like an hour
driving with a tone with electric vehicle

638
00:36:46,344 --> 00:36:47,004
is so easy.

639
00:36:47,004 --> 00:36:49,146
You don't even feel the difference for the
most part.

640
00:36:49,146 --> 00:36:52,248
You like, if anything, you might notice
you accelerate slightly slower, but it's

641
00:36:52,248 --> 00:36:53,829
still so much faster.

642
00:36:54,189 --> 00:36:59,933
And so I think from, I think what most
people, when most people talk about towing

643
00:36:59,933 --> 00:37:04,517
an EV, I think they, I think it's just one
more reason like the naysayers say, Oh,

644
00:37:04,517 --> 00:37:06,317
this is why they'll never catch on.

645
00:37:06,486 --> 00:37:09,906
And in practice, that's a pretty rare
need.

646
00:37:10,087 --> 00:37:13,488
But when you look at the commercial side
of it, obviously, I mean, a buddy of mine,

647
00:37:13,488 --> 00:37:17,129
he's, uh, he works in Volvo trucks and he
lives in the Midwest now.

648
00:37:17,129 --> 00:37:18,289
And so it is always kind of here.

649
00:37:18,289 --> 00:37:20,910
Interesting hearing what they have to deal
with.

650
00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:24,111
And some of this talk about
electrification and then the level of

651
00:37:24,111 --> 00:37:30,233
skepticism is just off the roof,
especially with the truck buyers, but then

652
00:37:30,233 --> 00:37:30,913
you

653
00:37:31,106 --> 00:37:33,686
there is a reality where it's like, well,
I don't know if, and it, and I've seen

654
00:37:33,686 --> 00:37:35,447
some of these things now where you put a
battery.

655
00:37:35,447 --> 00:37:38,608
So it's kind of like, you almost have a
plug in hybrid for a traditional truck in

656
00:37:38,608 --> 00:37:42,629
the trailer, which could be kind of that
stepping stone and possibly work.

657
00:37:42,629 --> 00:37:49,910
But I, I think inherently, uh, I think
once again, on paper and in a.

658
00:37:50,571 --> 00:37:55,712
Science experiment and in limited use,
like hydrogen makes so much sense, but

659
00:37:55,712 --> 00:37:59,273
it's just been the actual harvesting of
the hydrogen and the storage of the

660
00:37:59,273 --> 00:38:00,773
hydrogen and all these.

661
00:38:01,054 --> 00:38:04,416
other things that just make the
infrastructure really difficult.

662
00:38:04,416 --> 00:38:07,178
And even then so many people have been
talking about that.

663
00:38:07,178 --> 00:38:07,899
That's the innovation.

664
00:38:07,899 --> 00:38:08,439
Oh, okay.

665
00:38:08,439 --> 00:38:12,822
Well, then maybe that's it because the,
the thing I've at least seen on my side,

666
00:38:12,822 --> 00:38:18,726
um, through quite a few coworkers and
others is, uh, and some of them are in

667
00:38:18,726 --> 00:38:22,609
kind of natural gas space is they're
talking about converting natural gas.

668
00:38:22,609 --> 00:38:27,633
Um, a lot of it, natural gas pipelines and
some of these other things to hydrogen and

669
00:38:27,633 --> 00:38:28,913
just inherently.

670
00:38:29,142 --> 00:38:31,903
That's a much harder task than people
realize when you're dealing with the

671
00:38:31,903 --> 00:38:35,604
smallest element and it just doesn't have
that same thing.

672
00:38:35,604 --> 00:38:38,065
But I, yeah, I would love, I mean, if
there's anything you can share about what

673
00:38:38,065 --> 00:38:40,366
your friends are working on, that'd be
great, but I'd love to hear more about

674
00:38:40,366 --> 00:38:44,848
that soon just because yeah, I think in
trucking that to me for sure makes the

675
00:38:44,848 --> 00:38:50,031
most sense, it doesn't seem very practical
for, uh, cars right now.

676
00:38:50,031 --> 00:38:55,593
But I'd be curious if you've been, I think
they should be coming out of, uh, the

677
00:38:55,593 --> 00:38:57,086
stealth mode to here in the next.

678
00:38:57,086 --> 00:38:57,426
month or two.

679
00:38:57,426 --> 00:38:59,589
So I'll shoot you a note and maybe you can
chat.

680
00:38:59,589 --> 00:39:00,469
For sure.

681
00:39:00,610 --> 00:39:06,238
I mean, have you been getting, I know you
guys work a lot with, uh, to some extent

682
00:39:06,238 --> 00:39:08,500
chargers as charging technology too.

683
00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:13,227
Have you been getting a lot of interest or
questions around that for like the fleet

684
00:39:13,227 --> 00:39:15,769
scale or like the large commercial side of
stuff?

685
00:39:17,822 --> 00:39:23,947
Yeah, so I mean, when a charger stuff that
we've had a conversation and or work on,

686
00:39:23,947 --> 00:39:28,951
it's ranging from, you know, simple level
two charger to faster chargers to some of

687
00:39:28,951 --> 00:39:30,872
these battery buffered solutions, right?

688
00:39:30,872 --> 00:39:34,315
Where you have, um, it's a couple of
different technologies approaching this in

689
00:39:34,315 --> 00:39:34,935
different ways, right?

690
00:39:34,935 --> 00:39:38,178
Of having some type of a bank of energy.

691
00:39:38,178 --> 00:39:42,321
So then you can flush it into the vehicle
and then trickle charge it over time, uh,

692
00:39:42,441 --> 00:39:47,305
and minimize the fast transient draw on
the grid, right?

693
00:39:47,305 --> 00:39:47,885
Um,

694
00:39:48,722 --> 00:39:51,304
also mobile charging stations.

695
00:39:51,304 --> 00:39:55,067
There's a few different flavors of these
of something.

696
00:39:55,067 --> 00:39:57,709
And some of these are longer term
applications.

697
00:39:59,451 --> 00:40:05,716
Some of them are stop gaps for upgrading
infrastructure to be able to handle

698
00:40:05,716 --> 00:40:09,380
additional load for charging multiple
heavy duty trucks.

699
00:40:09,380 --> 00:40:10,481
I get significant rates.

700
00:40:10,481 --> 00:40:15,825
So you have trailerized products or like
micro grid type products that

701
00:40:16,706 --> 00:40:19,207
Yeah, there's a lot of these things in
work and being rolled out.

702
00:40:19,207 --> 00:40:20,888
And I guess I don't know what the sales
numbers look like.

703
00:40:20,888 --> 00:40:26,892
They seem to make sense because it seems
like the grid upgrades are taking a long

704
00:40:26,892 --> 00:40:29,454
time in some places and you need some way
to charge your vehicles.

705
00:40:29,454 --> 00:40:32,076
If you're going to introduce all your
vehicles into a fleet.

706
00:40:32,076 --> 00:40:34,998
Um, but yeah, we've certainly seen
interest on the assembly side because

707
00:40:34,998 --> 00:40:38,380
these are, these fall perfectly into the
category of like reasonably small veil

708
00:40:38,380 --> 00:40:44,664
volume, no one's really built this type of
product before and you need a capital

709
00:40:44,664 --> 00:40:46,825
efficient, flexible approach to do it
well.

710
00:40:47,614 --> 00:40:50,836
Yeah, I think there's been a lot of
interesting conversations that we've even

711
00:40:50,836 --> 00:40:54,840
had on this podcast around the battery
backup side of stuff, obviously adds a

712
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,943
huge cost, but when you're dealing with
these commercial epic applications, I

713
00:40:58,943 --> 00:41:02,987
think what most people just don't realize
is how many, uh, like you were talking

714
00:41:02,987 --> 00:41:07,611
about supply chain issues for sure that
utility grade products are still dealing

715
00:41:07,611 --> 00:41:08,271
with.

716
00:41:08,271 --> 00:41:11,574
But the bigger thing too is just like
demand charges and all these other kind

717
00:41:11,574 --> 00:41:15,426
of, uh, grid related costs when you're
delivering power, especially at

718
00:41:15,426 --> 00:41:19,828
different times of the day that most
people don't realize that all of a sudden

719
00:41:19,828 --> 00:41:24,471
make these million dollar, very expensive
battery, large battery installations

720
00:41:24,471 --> 00:41:29,034
actually cost effective much quicker than
most people would realize just because

721
00:41:29,034 --> 00:41:32,296
it's so much easier just to drop a battery
plug in the right infrastructure, let

722
00:41:32,296 --> 00:41:35,458
software do some of the gaps that need to
be filled.

723
00:41:35,458 --> 00:41:41,781
And all of a sudden these large, uh,
charging sites can be pretty financially.

724
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:45,093
worth the time and the investment to make
it happen.

725
00:41:45,093 --> 00:41:49,499
Have you been dealing with kind of any of
the interests on the utility side around

726
00:41:49,499 --> 00:41:53,324
some of these charges or trying to find
ways to make the battery kind of fill that

727
00:41:53,324 --> 00:41:54,745
gap for your customers?

728
00:41:57,402 --> 00:42:01,525
Yeah, we haven't so far been tied too
closely directly to the utilities.

729
00:42:01,525 --> 00:42:06,449
It's primarily been the providers who are
looking for a solution or some way to

730
00:42:06,449 --> 00:42:11,133
manufacture the product and then they're
managing the relationship with the utility

731
00:42:11,133 --> 00:42:13,275
or whoever is doing the application work.

732
00:42:13,275 --> 00:42:14,095
Gotcha.

733
00:42:14,256 --> 00:42:20,221
And then with, I guess we do talk a lot
about the level two, the AC versus the DC

734
00:42:20,221 --> 00:42:21,161
charging.

735
00:42:22,403 --> 00:42:25,125
Is there anything that you're kind of
seeing from your clients around a

736
00:42:25,125 --> 00:42:26,070
technology?

737
00:42:26,070 --> 00:42:27,131
that they're most interested.

738
00:42:27,131 --> 00:42:32,020
Is it more on the commercial kind of DC
fast charge side or is it a pretty healthy

739
00:42:32,020 --> 00:42:33,101
mix of both?

740
00:42:36,182 --> 00:42:37,222
I think it's a mix.

741
00:42:37,222 --> 00:42:40,523
I mean, you know this probably better than
I do, right?

742
00:42:40,523 --> 00:42:47,966
But like anything, the charging solution
needs to be optimized for the use case.

743
00:42:47,966 --> 00:42:48,287
For sure.

744
00:42:48,287 --> 00:42:54,049
And you need to understand at what cadence
will vehicles be coming through a given

745
00:42:54,209 --> 00:42:59,911
area, what type of and number of vehicles,
how long can they stay there, and have a

746
00:42:59,911 --> 00:43:05,098
mix of solutions often at these sites that
allow you to put together a total.

747
00:43:05,098 --> 00:43:07,478
charging package that actually meets it.

748
00:43:07,478 --> 00:43:10,059
And it's not actually even as simple as I
just explained, right?

749
00:43:10,059 --> 00:43:15,080
Because you also need to have the math of
when and how much is going to cost you to

750
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,661
pull energy from the grid and how much can
you reliably get at a certain time, right?

751
00:43:19,661 --> 00:43:25,923
So like, there's, I think there has to be
a mix of solutions.

752
00:43:25,923 --> 00:43:30,144
And yeah, you're sure you have your level
two overnight stuff when it makes sense,

753
00:43:30,144 --> 00:43:34,966
but also you often need to inject some
type of faster speed.

754
00:43:34,966 --> 00:43:36,546
DC fast charge type stuff.

755
00:43:36,546 --> 00:43:40,088
If you're going to have a solution that
actually meets the needs of a given fleet.

756
00:43:40,088 --> 00:43:40,988
For sure.

757
00:43:40,988 --> 00:43:44,089
Um, and kind of one of those things, I
mean, what we've all been talking about

758
00:43:44,089 --> 00:43:47,871
around, whether it's the charging
technology or the actual manufacturing of

759
00:43:47,871 --> 00:43:52,833
the cars, I'm kind of curious as someone
who's so close to the manufacturing side,

760
00:43:52,833 --> 00:43:57,695
like what, with what you're seeing right
now, I think it still seems to be you're

761
00:43:57,695 --> 00:44:01,216
talking with a lot of these clients about
the longer term focus versus some of the

762
00:44:01,216 --> 00:44:04,297
kind of the short term market instability.

763
00:44:04,602 --> 00:44:09,127
Where are you seeing or what do you see as
like in five years where the EV space

764
00:44:09,127 --> 00:44:13,712
might be or what some of the questions
that your clients are kind of coming up to

765
00:44:13,712 --> 00:44:17,936
you about how to kind of get to that
longer term vision and that stability

766
00:44:17,936 --> 00:44:22,021
versus getting distracted by some of these
kind of short-term things happening in the

767
00:44:22,021 --> 00:44:22,861
space.

768
00:44:26,218 --> 00:44:30,821
Yeah, I don't know, but the overall
industry, it's hard to say.

769
00:44:30,821 --> 00:44:35,785
It feels like, and I don't know exactly
what data is coming together to give me

770
00:44:36,066 --> 00:44:40,029
this feeling, but it feels like some of
these tangential industries, and that's

771
00:44:40,029 --> 00:44:45,113
where, given the volumes I focus on, this
is where I spend more of my time thinking

772
00:44:45,113 --> 00:44:46,154
and researching.

773
00:44:46,154 --> 00:44:49,257
The mass market automotive, yeah, it's
what our sister company supports a lot,

774
00:44:49,257 --> 00:44:53,220
but if someone's producing millions of
vehicles per year, that's probably not a

775
00:44:53,220 --> 00:44:55,121
right fit for our philosophy.

776
00:44:55,166 --> 00:44:58,588
I tend to spend more time thinking about
medium duty electrification.

777
00:44:58,588 --> 00:44:59,988
I mentioned work trucks.

778
00:45:00,309 --> 00:45:05,092
Think about things like ag and
construction and mining or aviation,

779
00:45:05,092 --> 00:45:09,214
marine applications, these types of
things.

780
00:45:09,214 --> 00:45:14,037
And it varies.

781
00:45:14,037 --> 00:45:16,178
Even in those industries, it varies
widely.

782
00:45:16,459 --> 00:45:20,581
We get a lot of interest in forklifts or
port equipment of some sort or ground.

783
00:45:21,858 --> 00:45:24,078
ground vehicles for airport applications.

784
00:45:24,078 --> 00:45:26,819
Where it's like, oh yeah, it seems like
we're making a push towards electrifying

785
00:45:26,819 --> 00:45:27,759
these, which makes sense.

786
00:45:27,759 --> 00:45:32,741
And those types of vehicles actually often
are different in that they stay in the

787
00:45:32,741 --> 00:45:36,302
field for so long that you're probably
retrofitting those vehicles, not producing

788
00:45:36,302 --> 00:45:38,382
a bunch of new electric vehicles.

789
00:45:38,562 --> 00:45:45,124
And it feels like there's a use case and a
business case that makes a lot of sense,

790
00:45:45,264 --> 00:45:48,365
but they've still been moving slower than
I would have expected.

791
00:45:48,365 --> 00:45:49,825
I don't know exactly.

792
00:45:50,110 --> 00:45:54,232
what's driving that, whether it's an
infrastructure piece or it's a skepticism

793
00:45:54,232 --> 00:45:58,554
piece on the side of the customer who's
trying to understand how they're going to

794
00:45:58,654 --> 00:46:02,977
integrate these vehicles or this new
approach into their business, right?

795
00:46:02,977 --> 00:46:06,619
Because it's not as simple as go buy a
bunch of electric vehicles and then

796
00:46:06,619 --> 00:46:11,041
replace one for one what you're doing with
internal combustion in your vehicle.

797
00:46:11,041 --> 00:46:15,484
It's not, there's more that needs to
change when you introduce electric

798
00:46:15,484 --> 00:46:18,245
vehicles into a fleet than simply the
vehicle.

799
00:46:18,245 --> 00:46:19,085
You need to

800
00:46:19,594 --> 00:46:26,338
your optimization scheme for your fleet,
the training for your team, the way in

801
00:46:26,338 --> 00:46:30,701
which you're having vehicles come in and
out and planning paths, routes, and all

802
00:46:30,701 --> 00:46:32,102
that type of stuff has to change.

803
00:46:32,102 --> 00:46:34,464
So maybe that's a piece of it where people
are still trying to figure out that

804
00:46:34,464 --> 00:46:36,425
optimization piece and they're scared off.

805
00:46:37,486 --> 00:46:43,270
But within five years, I'm optimistic that
these, what I like to call kind of like

806
00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:47,413
the obvious electrification markets, the
places where you have captive fleets that

807
00:46:47,413 --> 00:46:48,313
are going

808
00:46:48,754 --> 00:46:51,295
out and back coming to a central location.

809
00:46:51,535 --> 00:46:54,797
I mean, if wireless charging takes off,
then it's a slam dunk, just park where you

810
00:46:54,797 --> 00:46:57,218
need to, even if you need to plug it in,
it's not an issue.

811
00:46:57,218 --> 00:47:00,860
I'd like to think, and my guess would be
within the next five years that these

812
00:47:00,860 --> 00:47:03,942
types of markets would have very high
penetration rates.

813
00:47:04,022 --> 00:47:09,785
Interesting, and it's while the variety of
industries you mentioned from ag to

814
00:47:10,906 --> 00:47:16,989
aerospace, what kind of with what you see
and where you're working, what has been

815
00:47:16,989 --> 00:47:18,229
kind of maybe the

816
00:47:18,382 --> 00:47:23,881
most surprising industry that has shown a
strong interest for electrification.

817
00:47:29,018 --> 00:47:32,200
Yeah, so maybe the question of surprising
to whom.

818
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:36,504
So the I mean, before my previous I think
I mentioned I was at Boeing.

819
00:47:36,504 --> 00:47:39,726
So I came from the aviation space and I.

820
00:47:39,726 --> 00:47:45,371
I had heard about EV tolls and stuff when
I started focusing more on decarbonization

821
00:47:45,371 --> 00:47:45,951
of aviation.

822
00:47:45,951 --> 00:47:50,035
And I still think there's room for
electrifying, maybe even the vertical

823
00:47:50,035 --> 00:47:52,537
takeoff landing, I think the regional
space.

824
00:47:52,537 --> 00:47:56,540
But one of my key takeaways is like,
that's a super tough industry to

825
00:47:56,540 --> 00:47:57,220
decarbonize.

826
00:47:57,220 --> 00:47:58,861
And I don't know if.

827
00:47:59,106 --> 00:48:02,769
There's a lot that needs to get figured
out for that to roll out at scale.

828
00:48:02,769 --> 00:48:04,530
So maybe that was one of the learnings.

829
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:11,135
Um, the other was, and this is more of, I
think this learning is more about me being

830
00:48:11,135 --> 00:48:18,541
ignorant than the technology and the
market, but how specialized equipment is

831
00:48:18,541 --> 00:48:22,745
right to like, it's any of these
industries you get in, like if you go to,

832
00:48:22,745 --> 00:48:26,488
uh, we do automation, like we do a lot of
autonomous vehicle stuff as well.

833
00:48:26,488 --> 00:48:28,769
So it's a similar use case, but, um,

834
00:48:29,130 --> 00:48:33,591
Go and learn about a port, for example,
like a shipping port.

835
00:48:33,831 --> 00:48:36,412
And it's not like they have like standard
vehicles.

836
00:48:36,412 --> 00:48:41,513
They have specialized vehicles that all do
specific things.

837
00:48:41,513 --> 00:48:44,034
And there's a desire to decarbonize these
are because they're right.

838
00:48:44,034 --> 00:48:46,574
They're often near cities there.

839
00:48:48,055 --> 00:48:51,596
They are these captive fleets that can
stay in one spot.

840
00:48:51,596 --> 00:48:56,217
But also it's not as simple as go buy a
bunch of off the shelf components and

841
00:48:56,217 --> 00:48:57,590
throw it together like this.

842
00:48:57,590 --> 00:48:59,651
Customized solutions, I need to go into
this.

843
00:48:59,651 --> 00:49:02,173
And there's other industries.

844
00:49:02,654 --> 00:49:05,897
Next time you're at the airport, look
around at how many different types of

845
00:49:05,897 --> 00:49:09,460
vehicles there are that are moving your
stuff around.

846
00:49:09,460 --> 00:49:14,945
And I'd say that's been the biggest
learning was just how much specialization

847
00:49:14,945 --> 00:49:18,928
each of these individual industries have
and how much you need to understand the

848
00:49:18,928 --> 00:49:23,632
unique needs and use cases for each of
these vehicles if you're ever going to

849
00:49:23,632 --> 00:49:25,602
actually make a meaningful impact.

850
00:49:25,602 --> 00:49:26,022
For sure.

851
00:49:26,022 --> 00:49:30,666
And with the industries you just
mentioned, since they are, uh, they're in

852
00:49:30,666 --> 00:49:33,348
a commercial, they're very specialized,
they're commercial, but they're usually

853
00:49:33,348 --> 00:49:36,992
doing a similar thing over and over and
over.

854
00:49:36,992 --> 00:49:41,676
Has autonomy been something that these
clients have also kind of brought up to

855
00:49:41,676 --> 00:49:45,719
you when they come to these conversations
around electrification and what does that

856
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:46,540
usually look like?

857
00:49:46,540 --> 00:49:49,883
Is it still maybe too early or are they
just trying to figure out how to put these

858
00:49:49,883 --> 00:49:52,925
pieces together and maybe do it in like a
step function way?

859
00:49:55,006 --> 00:49:58,908
Yeah, I think the so maybe I'll start
macro and someone I was talking with

860
00:49:58,908 --> 00:50:05,173
recently summarized it well of CS 2024 was
a couple weeks ago, and had a lot of

861
00:50:05,173 --> 00:50:07,954
discussions around electrification, but
also autonomy.

862
00:50:08,075 --> 00:50:11,517
And what they heard, and what I also heard
is that there's been a shift in that

863
00:50:11,517 --> 00:50:12,077
conversation.

864
00:50:12,077 --> 00:50:17,841
And it's less around when will autonomous
vehicle tech be ready.

865
00:50:17,841 --> 00:50:21,304
And it's more about where are the
applications that we can go automate right

866
00:50:21,304 --> 00:50:21,824
now?

867
00:50:21,824 --> 00:50:24,525
Because I mean, like, like the electric
vehicle space.

868
00:50:25,026 --> 00:50:28,667
quote unquote ready for ready for what
ready electric vehicles are.

869
00:50:28,667 --> 00:50:35,670
I like to use the phrase that when my
recent podcast guests hit usually the

870
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:36,971
grass is green enough.

871
00:50:36,971 --> 00:50:37,251
Right.

872
00:50:37,251 --> 00:50:40,572
There's a lot of there's a lot of
applications that should be electrified

873
00:50:40,572 --> 00:50:40,792
today.

874
00:50:40,792 --> 00:50:43,694
It's a lot of applications that can and
should be automated right now.

875
00:50:43,694 --> 00:50:50,237
Like the tech is very good in certain
situations not for on road stuff like

876
00:50:50,237 --> 00:50:51,517
yeah, rebel taxis are getting there.

877
00:50:51,517 --> 00:50:52,778
But you're

878
00:50:52,778 --> 00:50:54,358
personal use vehicles long ways from being
automated.

879
00:50:54,358 --> 00:50:56,360
It's about the least controlled
environment.

880
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,202
And what you're talking about are these
very specific controlled commercial

881
00:51:00,202 --> 00:51:06,325
environments that you can bring down the
delta of one, something going wrong so

882
00:51:06,325 --> 00:51:10,908
much greater, but two, it's inherently in
an environment where people can at least

883
00:51:10,908 --> 00:51:15,911
expect how to interact with these
autonomous machines.

884
00:51:15,911 --> 00:51:19,733
And the speeds usually are probably- And
so this is happening now.

885
00:51:19,733 --> 00:51:20,210
Yeah.

886
00:51:20,210 --> 00:51:23,611
And also there's a safe, like a safety
case is huge in the autonomy space.

887
00:51:23,611 --> 00:51:26,133
And there's a safe state of just stop.

888
00:51:26,133 --> 00:51:26,373
Right.

889
00:51:26,373 --> 00:51:31,576
Like if you're in a, if you're moving
things around at a, at a trucking, um,

890
00:51:31,576 --> 00:51:35,198
depot and your autonomous yard truck of
some way, like something doesn't go right,

891
00:51:35,198 --> 00:51:36,318
just stop, stay there.

892
00:51:36,318 --> 00:51:36,999
No, you're fine.

893
00:51:36,999 --> 00:51:39,060
You're not blocking a right away.

894
00:51:39,060 --> 00:51:42,242
Like there's a safe state that is just put
the brakes on.

895
00:51:42,242 --> 00:51:47,064
And so, uh, yeah, your question of yes,
automation is a huge focus in these

896
00:51:47,064 --> 00:51:48,525
controlled environments.

897
00:51:48,725 --> 00:51:49,345
Um,

898
00:51:49,346 --> 00:51:53,447
to try to figure out like how can you
realize and that has its own, its own

899
00:51:53,447 --> 00:51:57,348
challenge of like, it's, it's not as
simple as just buy an autonomous vehicle

900
00:51:57,348 --> 00:51:58,408
and say, Hey, go do your thing.

901
00:51:58,408 --> 00:52:02,069
But the application work has to be very
intentional and strategic to actually

902
00:52:02,069 --> 00:52:05,490
figure out how to incorporate it into your
business to solve a real need and not just

903
00:52:05,490 --> 00:52:07,951
to be able to say, look, I have the shiny
new autonomous vehicle sitting in the

904
00:52:07,951 --> 00:52:10,371
corner that I spent a million dollars on
or whatever.

905
00:52:10,492 --> 00:52:10,992
Totally.

906
00:52:10,992 --> 00:52:15,093
And with that, I mean, um, you mentioned
ag earlier and that's an industry that's

907
00:52:15,093 --> 00:52:17,533
going through a lot of autonomy.

908
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:19,651
And actually has been for quite a while.

909
00:52:19,651 --> 00:52:27,057
Uh, what are you seeing talking about the
million dollar new, fully autonomous robot

910
00:52:27,057 --> 00:52:27,277
thing?

911
00:52:27,277 --> 00:52:31,341
Um, are you seeing the interest kind of
with electrification for these

912
00:52:31,341 --> 00:52:35,424
opportunities, like, well, how do I just
take my existing fleet and instead of

913
00:52:35,424 --> 00:52:39,928
having to buy a whole new one, maybe I buy
10 new ones to tread out, but I've got

914
00:52:39,928 --> 00:52:40,969
these other 50 ones.

915
00:52:40,969 --> 00:52:44,451
What can I do to either make them
autonomous, make them electric?

916
00:52:44,471 --> 00:52:47,393
Is that more of the conversation you're
seeing?

917
00:52:47,486 --> 00:52:49,713
Or is that more like, that's what they
wish for.

918
00:52:49,713 --> 00:52:52,904
But once you start looking into the
practicality of it, just really isn't an

919
00:52:52,904 --> 00:52:53,685
option.

920
00:52:56,062 --> 00:52:59,704
Yeah, and I'd say ag is maybe of the
industries I mentioned, one of the ones

921
00:52:59,704 --> 00:53:06,607
I'm least familiar with and in the weeds,
but I think I mean, both sides are going

922
00:53:06,607 --> 00:53:07,448
after that.

923
00:53:07,488 --> 00:53:11,130
If mining, for example, though, if you ask
that question, like that's certainly the

924
00:53:11,130 --> 00:53:11,590
equation.

925
00:53:11,590 --> 00:53:17,513
And there's a few cool companies that are
doing retrofit work for big haul trucks

926
00:53:17,713 --> 00:53:18,314
and things like that.

927
00:53:18,314 --> 00:53:22,496
I think certainly for autonomy, but I
think decarbonization efforts as well,

928
00:53:22,496 --> 00:53:25,430
because that's the same category of those
vehicles are built for.

929
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:28,332
decades, not years, right?

930
00:53:28,332 --> 00:53:33,316
Is that I'm kind of curious when you talk
about decarbonization, because I think a

931
00:53:33,316 --> 00:53:38,821
lot of that, depending on who you talk to,
for sure, some of that's obviously

932
00:53:38,821 --> 00:53:42,945
politically driven in their opinions, but
so many large companies just have

933
00:53:42,945 --> 00:53:49,311
decarbonization mandates is are you seeing
that it's driven by obviously, maybe in

934
00:53:49,311 --> 00:53:52,933
Europe and some of these other countries,
there are actual governmental

935
00:53:53,550 --> 00:53:56,090
numbers they need to hit that are driving
this.

936
00:53:56,090 --> 00:54:00,572
Are you seeing it from your customers be
more around numbers they need to hit or is

937
00:54:00,572 --> 00:54:04,193
it sometimes around their own goals that
they've set as a company like, yeah, we

938
00:54:04,193 --> 00:54:08,694
wanna be carbon neutral or carbon free by
2050, 2035.

939
00:54:08,894 --> 00:54:14,775
And so we've looked at these things going
on in our space that we have to hit this,

940
00:54:14,775 --> 00:54:19,397
this and this, or it's like, well, with
this new law passed, or is it kind of a

941
00:54:19,397 --> 00:54:22,237
mix of both for what these companies are
trying to accomplish?

942
00:54:23,838 --> 00:54:25,898
It's, it's, it's a mix.

943
00:54:25,898 --> 00:54:32,501
I mean, it's also, it's, it's hard to get
to true motivations, um, and, and really

944
00:54:32,501 --> 00:54:34,362
get to the, to the heart of that.

945
00:54:34,362 --> 00:54:39,544
But I mean, there's all ultimately,
there's typically some type of

946
00:54:39,544 --> 00:54:40,544
self-interest.

947
00:54:40,544 --> 00:54:44,906
Maybe for some people, they're just so
committed that future generations need.

948
00:54:45,506 --> 00:54:48,908
Decarbonization to, and like that, that
drives their whole business strategy.

949
00:54:48,908 --> 00:54:50,909
I think there are people like that.

950
00:54:50,909 --> 00:54:52,089
I think that's the exception though.

951
00:54:52,089 --> 00:54:53,629
I think more of it is like.

952
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:57,331
the market's going this way or we're going
to be forced this way because of

953
00:54:57,331 --> 00:55:03,574
regulations and some external force seems
to be the primary driver in most

954
00:55:03,574 --> 00:55:05,414
situations.

955
00:55:05,414 --> 00:55:10,196
No, that that's kind of what I figured
would be the experience with that because

956
00:55:10,196 --> 00:55:13,497
it it's also like I was saying, obviously
very regional.

957
00:55:13,578 --> 00:55:17,319
What is being driven by like Europe or
even some of the Asian countries by

958
00:55:17,319 --> 00:55:20,520
legislation versus here is like, yeah,
that's probably going to go that way, but

959
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,441
we're also getting shareholder interest
and pushing for it.

960
00:55:23,938 --> 00:55:29,261
with I guess a little bit of a segue with
what your company does around

961
00:55:29,261 --> 00:55:31,202
electrification and manufacturing.

962
00:55:31,202 --> 00:55:34,724
What is, we've talked about autonomy,
we've talked about electrification.

963
00:55:34,724 --> 00:55:40,887
What are some of the maybe things or
technologies that people that just don't

964
00:55:40,887 --> 00:55:45,690
have much exposure to what Edison does in
your level of manufacturing?

965
00:55:45,690 --> 00:55:51,893
What are some of the disruptors or maybe
even approaches to?

966
00:55:52,070 --> 00:55:55,692
electric manufacturing especially, but
just manufacturing you're seeing.

967
00:55:55,732 --> 00:55:58,974
I think probably maybe the more common
ones people are familiar with are like

968
00:55:58,974 --> 00:56:05,179
agile style of building, especially like
in software.

969
00:56:05,179 --> 00:56:08,241
But I just be curious if there's any other
kind of things that you're seeing, whether

970
00:56:08,241 --> 00:56:12,443
it's from an internal or just an external
technology that's kind of having a large

971
00:56:12,443 --> 00:56:16,186
influence on this manufacturing that you
and your company do.

972
00:56:17,487 --> 00:56:17,787
Yeah.

973
00:56:17,787 --> 00:56:21,686
So I highlight two things and that's
quality and supply chain.

974
00:56:21,686 --> 00:56:30,028
So your approach to quality needs to be
robust and specific to the needs of the

975
00:56:30,028 --> 00:56:30,868
product.

976
00:56:30,868 --> 00:56:30,988
Right.

977
00:56:30,988 --> 00:56:33,709
And so there's within the automotive
world, if you, if anyone's familiar with

978
00:56:33,709 --> 00:56:37,750
that, there's something called APQP or the
advanced product quality planning.

979
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:44,552
And that's if you have, if any component
in your car has gone through some type of

980
00:56:44,552 --> 00:56:50,353
APQP process that is qualified, then you
have a PPAP process that at the end, it

981
00:56:50,353 --> 00:56:51,153
says if we

982
00:56:51,870 --> 00:56:55,251
rules and instructions, then this comes
out and it's a good quality part.

983
00:56:56,271 --> 00:57:01,314
In the lower volume electrification space,
you need to pick and choose from that

984
00:57:01,314 --> 00:57:05,195
process, but also honor the spirit of that
process.

985
00:57:05,195 --> 00:57:07,576
So maybe adding a little bit more to this.

986
00:57:07,576 --> 00:57:11,218
So like there's an idea called failure
modes and effects analysis, both at a

987
00:57:11,218 --> 00:57:12,839
design and a process level.

988
00:57:12,839 --> 00:57:16,760
So when we get a new product, we'll look
at it and we'll say, what are all the ways

989
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,441
in which this thing can break?

990
00:57:18,441 --> 00:57:19,926
What are all the ways that we can?

991
00:57:19,926 --> 00:57:22,446
What are all the way that this design
could be faulty?

992
00:57:22,446 --> 00:57:25,887
What are all the ways that during the
assembly process something could go wrong

993
00:57:25,887 --> 00:57:28,448
that would lead to a faulty end product?

994
00:57:28,468 --> 00:57:31,189
And then you think about, okay, what is
the risk level?

995
00:57:31,189 --> 00:57:33,009
How likely is this to happen?

996
00:57:33,009 --> 00:57:35,270
How big of an issue is it if it happens?

997
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:36,751
And how do we mitigate this?

998
00:57:36,751 --> 00:57:40,692
So you then put together a control plan to
figure out, we follow these steps and if

999
00:57:40,692 --> 00:57:45,333
we do this correctly, then we can mitigate
X and Y risk, right?

1000
00:57:45,353 --> 00:57:45,973
And...

1001
00:57:47,166 --> 00:57:50,267
Then you the way you bake in your
manufacturing system the way you're

1002
00:57:50,267 --> 00:57:53,728
informing your operators and applying
different fixtures and things are all

1003
00:57:53,728 --> 00:57:56,109
built with that in mind.

1004
00:57:56,129 --> 00:57:59,411
And so anyone who's not from the
manufacturing world.

1005
00:57:59,411 --> 00:58:00,891
I mean, logically, it makes sense.

1006
00:58:00,891 --> 00:58:06,874
Maybe there's parallels to other areas,
but like that process and Approach, I

1007
00:58:06,874 --> 00:58:09,675
think, is critical if you're going to
build anything figure out all the ways it

1008
00:58:09,675 --> 00:58:10,655
can go wrong.

1009
00:58:10,756 --> 00:58:15,717
Rank them and figure out how you can
mitigate the biggest risks, essentially.

1010
00:58:16,330 --> 00:58:20,131
on a supply chain perspective similarly,
and we work with both in the electric and

1011
00:58:20,131 --> 00:58:21,731
the autonomous vehicle space.

1012
00:58:22,952 --> 00:58:27,213
Software type companies is pretty common
that we work with founders who are

1013
00:58:27,213 --> 00:58:29,753
software people, who are not necessarily
hardware people.

1014
00:58:30,134 --> 00:58:35,595
And one of the key realizations needs to
be like, supply chain can kill you.

1015
00:58:35,655 --> 00:58:39,897
Missing a single component that's critical
at the time when you need it to assemble

1016
00:58:39,897 --> 00:58:41,957
your product, there's nothing you can do.

1017
00:58:41,957 --> 00:58:42,837
You can't.

1018
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:43,930
You can't work at weekends.

1019
00:58:43,930 --> 00:58:45,011
You can't work over time.

1020
00:58:45,011 --> 00:58:46,472
You can't put more people at it.

1021
00:58:46,472 --> 00:58:50,094
You're stuck waiting on this one put
component until it comes.

1022
00:58:50,735 --> 00:58:56,079
And so you need to build out a robust
supply chain and with suppliers that you

1023
00:58:56,079 --> 00:58:57,740
trust and that can deliver.

1024
00:58:57,740 --> 00:59:00,722
And then also a tracking method.

1025
00:59:00,722 --> 00:59:07,766
So likely using some type of ERP system
and doing very careful material planning

1026
00:59:07,847 --> 00:59:12,142
and ordering and logistics and inventory
management because it's

1027
00:59:12,142 --> 00:59:16,844
so important that before a build you have
a list of what are all of the things I

1028
00:59:16,844 --> 00:59:19,885
need and how long is it going to take me
to build to get them.

1029
00:59:19,885 --> 00:59:23,506
You order everything when they get in your
building you know exactly where they are

1030
00:59:23,506 --> 00:59:27,128
both in the digital and the physical world
so you can point to something be like hey

1031
00:59:27,128 --> 00:59:32,250
that you know that bus bar that I need
where is it can't just be somewhere in the

1032
00:59:32,250 --> 00:59:39,453
shop no it needs to be it's on rack X on
shelf two and location why right.

1033
00:59:40,962 --> 00:59:43,823
I don't know if that stuff sounds obvious
or if it sounds like overkill, but like

1034
00:59:43,823 --> 00:59:49,645
that is the way to do this well and to not
run into unintended supply chain issues

1035
00:59:49,645 --> 00:59:50,665
that are going to cost you a ton.

1036
00:59:50,665 --> 00:59:51,486
Yeah.

1037
00:59:51,486 --> 00:59:53,207
And that, that makes a lot of sense.

1038
00:59:53,207 --> 00:59:58,329
And I think that is something that just
people don't fully appreciate enough is,

1039
00:59:58,329 --> 01:00:02,690
uh, that example is spot on of if you
don't have the part, there is nothing you

1040
01:00:02,690 --> 01:00:03,071
can do.

1041
01:00:03,071 --> 01:00:07,312
You can't, I mean, you could potentially
spend more money to maybe try and buy from

1042
01:00:07,312 --> 01:00:10,594
a backup supplier, but either way you've
lost time.

1043
01:00:10,594 --> 01:00:15,357
And more likely you've also now lost money
that just can't be made up.

1044
01:00:15,477 --> 01:00:19,940
I'm kind of curious because this is, I
think exposed, most people are exposed to

1045
01:00:19,940 --> 01:00:24,243
this in this space, at least are talked
about around electric vehicles or just

1046
01:00:24,243 --> 01:00:26,424
vehicles and manufacturing in general.

1047
01:00:26,505 --> 01:00:31,608
Is there anything that while you're doing
this work, since you spoke about chargers

1048
01:00:31,608 --> 01:00:37,532
that have kind of stood out or that's been
a recurrent issue for charging companies

1049
01:00:37,532 --> 01:00:39,333
around those sorts of challenges.

1050
01:00:42,758 --> 01:00:44,765
issue for charging companies.

1051
01:00:48,430 --> 01:00:49,430
I don't know if there's anything.

1052
01:00:49,430 --> 01:00:53,071
I mean, of course, there's been supply
chain uncertainty.

1053
01:00:53,291 --> 01:00:55,531
And I mean, it's leveled.

1054
01:00:55,531 --> 01:01:00,173
But maybe that's the thing I would, I
guess, highlight is not understanding lead

1055
01:01:00,173 --> 01:01:05,394
times and the fact that you have to, like
if you have a part, if you want to do a

1056
01:01:05,394 --> 01:01:08,075
manufacturing run, you need to backtrack.

1057
01:01:08,075 --> 01:01:12,256
Assume material is all on hand one, two
weeks beforehand.

1058
01:01:12,256 --> 01:01:15,717
Backtrack from that and figure out what is
your longest lead time item, what

1059
01:01:15,717 --> 01:01:17,666
uncertainty is there in that lead time.

1060
01:01:17,666 --> 01:01:19,226
and give yourself a safety factor.

1061
01:01:19,226 --> 01:01:24,369
So it can be right that you need to design
freeze several months before your build

1062
01:01:24,369 --> 01:01:28,812
starts, which again, from manufacturing
world, someone's probably laughing, be

1063
01:01:28,812 --> 01:01:32,354
like, of course, but if you're not from
that world, then you might think that,

1064
01:01:32,354 --> 01:01:35,255
hey, we're gonna design something that's
gonna be designed January 31st, we'll

1065
01:01:35,255 --> 01:01:37,876
build our first units February 15th, and
we'll move forward.

1066
01:01:37,917 --> 01:01:39,157
That's not gonna happen.

1067
01:01:39,157 --> 01:01:42,919
Well, and coming from having done a lot of
work in the software space, exactly.

1068
01:01:42,919 --> 01:01:45,160
It's like, oh, we can't just change this.

1069
01:01:45,941 --> 01:01:46,981
Although just be a

1070
01:01:47,410 --> 01:01:51,653
extra dev weekend and boom, we'll get this
all solved out or that'll be the next

1071
01:01:51,653 --> 01:01:52,934
version we ship.

1072
01:01:53,174 --> 01:01:55,276
But yeah, I was curious about that.

1073
01:01:55,276 --> 01:01:58,218
I figured that might be the reality of it.

1074
01:01:58,218 --> 01:02:02,662
I know one of the areas, and this really
isn't so much on the charging companies,

1075
01:02:02,662 --> 01:02:07,306
is the supply chain issues around
transformers and some of the stuff that

1076
01:02:07,306 --> 01:02:10,909
the utility actually needs to get the
power to where these chargers are going

1077
01:02:10,909 --> 01:02:16,713
and especially for DC fast charging has
been a big reason a lot of larger

1078
01:02:17,026 --> 01:02:22,970
DC, uh, fast charging locations have
either taken longer or have just been put

1079
01:02:22,970 --> 01:02:26,152
on hold indefinitely is just because
there's been a shortage in general of

1080
01:02:26,152 --> 01:02:29,494
transformers or other just supply chain
issues.

1081
01:02:29,955 --> 01:02:32,957
But, uh, I, I appreciate you sharing that
with us.

1082
01:02:33,217 --> 01:02:36,680
I think I realized we're kind of coming up
on our time and we're just a little over

1083
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:40,363
an hour now, but one, one question I guess
I have for you, I ask all of our guests

1084
01:02:40,363 --> 01:02:43,905
are just in your experience and what your
company is doing.

1085
01:02:43,905 --> 01:02:44,765
Are there.

1086
01:02:44,786 --> 01:02:49,049
any innovative ways that you think either
industry or even government can maybe help

1087
01:02:49,049 --> 01:02:54,433
accelerate the rollout of electric
vehicles or even charging technology.

1088
01:02:59,042 --> 01:02:59,668
Hmm.

1089
01:03:05,362 --> 01:03:09,083
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of
things in work.

1090
01:03:09,083 --> 01:03:13,444
Um, I'm curious to see, right.

1091
01:03:13,444 --> 01:03:18,865
This isn't an area of expertise here, but,
um, how intentionally can all the fund

1092
01:03:18,865 --> 01:03:23,186
federal funding that's been put inside,
put aside actually be put into practice

1093
01:03:23,186 --> 01:03:26,527
and go and make the impact that it's been,
uh, meant to make.

1094
01:03:26,527 --> 01:03:28,508
So like for example, right.

1095
01:03:28,508 --> 01:03:31,489
You might think we're doing a lot of work
in the electric vehicle spaces.

1096
01:03:31,489 --> 01:03:35,298
Should be easy to go find some type of
federal funding to go and

1097
01:03:35,298 --> 01:03:40,621
do work with like it, it hasn't, but we
haven't gotten the scent of whatever, um,

1098
01:03:40,621 --> 01:03:46,045
IRA or whatever money and, uh, just the,
the process of going and pursuing that is

1099
01:03:46,466 --> 01:03:47,987
made it so it's not even worth it.

1100
01:03:47,987 --> 01:03:50,849
Um, so yeah, that's, that's an
interesting, of course it'd be nice if

1101
01:03:50,849 --> 01:03:51,869
that's for sure.

1102
01:03:51,869 --> 01:03:55,052
That's an interesting thing that I kind of
learned this year.

1103
01:03:55,052 --> 01:03:59,014
Earlier on our podcast, we had Lauren
McDonald of the consulting and kind of

1104
01:03:59,014 --> 01:04:02,117
just charging guru of EV adoption.

1105
01:04:02,117 --> 01:04:03,577
And he was talking about

1106
01:04:03,682 --> 01:04:08,103
how Nevi funds, which are specifically for
getting charger infrastructure on like the

1107
01:04:08,103 --> 01:04:13,326
state level, had kind of unintentionally
been slowed down because all these larger

1108
01:04:13,326 --> 01:04:17,748
charging companies now were, instead of
putting more sites on the ground, they

1109
01:04:17,748 --> 01:04:21,829
were waiting and trying to get federal
funds to then use them to do these

1110
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:22,409
installations.

1111
01:04:22,409 --> 01:04:25,771
And so unintentionally, at least kind of
in the short to medium term, it was

1112
01:04:25,771 --> 01:04:29,832
actually slowing down a lot of the
momentum and the traction of the projects

1113
01:04:29,873 --> 01:04:32,273
that we were seeing, at least for the
charging side.

1114
01:04:32,714 --> 01:04:36,274
And I think according to just a recent
podcast, when he was on our panel, he said

1115
01:04:36,274 --> 01:04:39,775
that had changed a little bit, but that
was for sure something that was surprising

1116
01:04:39,775 --> 01:04:39,995
to me.

1117
01:04:39,995 --> 01:04:44,437
And I think it's something we've also just
seen in this space a lot is a lot of money

1118
01:04:44,437 --> 01:04:47,738
put out a lot of money that either goes to
studies or other things.

1119
01:04:47,738 --> 01:04:54,059
And then by the time, which usually a lot
has passed that we see the funds put into

1120
01:04:54,059 --> 01:04:59,641
a physical execution that actual taxpayers
and consumers can use.

1121
01:04:59,841 --> 01:05:02,121
It's okay.

1122
01:05:02,370 --> 01:05:06,751
but there's been a lot of whatever X
million dollars that was set aside.

1123
01:05:06,751 --> 01:05:13,953
So unfortunately that's not a one-to-one
direct output of what we want to see to

1124
01:05:13,953 --> 01:05:16,013
make that impact to improve the
experience.

1125
01:05:16,013 --> 01:05:19,874
But I really appreciate you being on and
kind of sharing these thoughts with us,

1126
01:05:19,874 --> 01:05:20,295
Brandon.

1127
01:05:20,295 --> 01:05:25,456
And for any of those who are either
interested in learning more about the

1128
01:05:25,756 --> 01:05:29,517
Edison Manufacturing Engineering or the
Future Mobility Podcast, what's the best

1129
01:05:29,517 --> 01:05:31,057
way for people to...

1130
01:05:31,466 --> 01:05:35,024
listen or kind of inquire about your
services.

1131
01:05:36,778 --> 01:05:39,859
Yeah, so Future Mobility Podcast comes out
weekly every Sunday.

1132
01:05:39,859 --> 01:05:43,041
Um, find out any podcast, uh, platform.

1133
01:05:43,341 --> 01:05:45,202
If so, yeah, check, check it out there.

1134
01:05:45,202 --> 01:05:47,664
If you want to reach out, if you're
building anything, or if you know someone

1135
01:05:47,664 --> 01:05:51,726
who's building something, launching
dozens, hundreds, thousands of units per

1136
01:05:51,726 --> 01:05:55,568
year, some type of complex assembly and
they need some way to build it, reach out

1137
01:05:55,568 --> 01:05:57,249
to me, that's, that's where we specialize.

1138
01:05:57,249 --> 01:06:01,952
Uh, my email's first.lastname at Edison
dash M F G.com.

1139
01:06:01,972 --> 01:06:04,554
So Brandon.Spartnik at.

1140
01:06:04,554 --> 01:06:06,515
edison-mfg.com.

1141
01:06:06,595 --> 01:06:07,836
Shoot me a note and let's chat.

1142
01:06:07,836 --> 01:06:09,137
Yeah, thank you so much, Brandon.

1143
01:06:09,137 --> 01:06:11,139
And we have to have you on again soon.

1144
01:06:11,139 --> 01:06:12,019
It's been too long.

1145
01:06:12,019 --> 01:06:14,261
And with that, we'll let you get going.

1146
01:06:14,261 --> 01:06:15,121
Thank you.

1147
01:06:17,730 --> 01:06:21,294
Thank you for listening to our
conversation today and a special thank you

1148
01:06:21,294 --> 01:06:25,779
to Brandon for sharing his insights and
expertise in the challenges and

1149
01:06:25,779 --> 01:06:30,464
opportunities in electric, autonomous and
EV charging manufacturing.

1150
01:06:30,885 --> 01:06:34,769
Also, definitely check out Brandon's
podcast, the future of mobility.

1151
01:06:34,790 --> 01:06:38,193
I know it's a podcast a lot of our
listeners would enjoy as well.

1152
01:06:38,646 --> 01:06:42,589
Remember to follow or subscribe to Greek
Connections on YouTube and your favorite

1153
01:06:42,589 --> 01:06:44,690
podcast platform if you haven't already.

1154
01:06:44,690 --> 01:06:48,533
And if you love today's episode, please
share it with your friends, colleagues,

1155
01:06:48,654 --> 01:06:53,717
and fellow enthusiasts who may also not be
familiar with our work yet.

1156
01:06:53,818 --> 01:06:57,321
Your support helps us grow and continues
bringing you the content that sparks

1157
01:06:57,321 --> 01:06:59,402
curiosity and conversation.

1158
01:06:59,823 --> 01:07:02,585
And before we sign off, we'd love to hear
your thoughts.

1159
01:07:02,585 --> 01:07:06,568
Your feedback is crucial in helping us
create content that resonates with you,

1160
01:07:06,568 --> 01:07:08,249
our valued listeners.

1161
01:07:08,374 --> 01:07:12,882
So until next week, remember whether
you're a seasoned EV enthusiast or new to

1162
01:07:12,882 --> 01:07:17,129
the world of electric mobility, the Grid
Connections podcast is your go-to source

1163
01:07:17,129 --> 01:07:18,972
for all things electric.