WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.390 Matt: Hey, Emmanuel, welcome to the WP minute. 00:00:02.820 --> 00:00:04.170 Emmanuel: Yeah, thank you for having me. 00:00:04.409 --> 00:00:04.909 Thank you. 00:00:05.529 --> 00:00:06.939 It's a pleasure to be on. 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.430 Matt: I saw some of the work you were doing at a recent hackathon. 00:00:11.460 --> 00:00:13.290 I want to talk about that in a moment. 00:00:13.700 --> 00:00:19.409 Um, it seems like the WordPress community is alive and thriving, 00:00:19.909 --> 00:00:21.769 uh, in your part of the world. 00:00:22.059 --> 00:00:24.509 Speaking of your part of the world, where are you? 00:00:24.509 --> 00:00:25.359 Where are you recording 00:00:25.489 --> 00:00:29.189 Emmanuel: Alright, so, um, like he said, my name is Emmanuel. 00:00:29.639 --> 00:00:35.179 And, um, I'm recording from Port Harcourt, uh, in Nigeria. 00:00:35.879 --> 00:00:42.049 So, um, it's, it's, it's wonderful relating back to the past events. 00:00:42.049 --> 00:00:45.969 It's wonderful having events such as that, that helps bring people 00:00:45.969 --> 00:00:50.719 together, helps bring, uh, the community together because, um, a lot of persons 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:53.790 are looking for places to fit in. 00:00:54.259 --> 00:00:59.439 And it was also an avenue for people to network, make friends. 00:00:59.839 --> 00:01:04.239 Uh, while, uh, At least supporting the cause, a worthy cause. 00:01:04.250 --> 00:01:08.720 So it was, um, it was wonderful to have everyone come out, show up on that day. 00:01:08.739 --> 00:01:10.750 And, uh, we had fun. 00:01:10.899 --> 00:01:12.149 We had fun while working. 00:01:12.149 --> 00:01:19.880 And, uh, I think, um, the, the, the, um, goal was achieved at the end of the day. 00:01:19.880 --> 00:01:22.220 We were able to help nonprofits. 00:01:22.515 --> 00:01:28.215 Based here in Port Harcourt, we are able to help them, uh, have websites and, um, 00:01:28.485 --> 00:01:34.645 with branding and also because we had a mix of, um, creatives, uh, designers, 00:01:34.954 --> 00:01:38.675 um, brand, brand managers, really. 00:01:38.695 --> 00:01:44.135 So they were able to give their skills to help these nonprofits, 00:01:44.525 --> 00:01:46.305 um, establish their online presence. 00:01:46.315 --> 00:01:46.495 So. 00:01:46.965 --> 00:01:48.705 Yeah, it was, uh, it was wonderful. 00:01:49.405 --> 00:01:51.175 Matt: You run an agency. 00:01:51.235 --> 00:01:52.935 I believe the name of it is called Brella. 00:01:53.195 --> 00:01:57.925 Uh, you've been running that now for just over six and a half years. 00:01:58.335 --> 00:02:03.515 Talk to me about the The business side of WordPress in Nigeria. 00:02:03.525 --> 00:02:08.585 I know we talk about it a lot in the U S and in the UK, we have the ups and 00:02:08.585 --> 00:02:10.685 downs of running a client based business. 00:02:10.705 --> 00:02:15.495 What's it like, uh, running it in Nigeria and what's the, what's the overall, um, 00:02:15.524 --> 00:02:17.445 ecosystem like, is it, is it thriving? 00:02:17.445 --> 00:02:21.275 Do you have a lot of customers or is it still just like here in the U S very 00:02:21.275 --> 00:02:22.875 competitive, hard to get customers? 00:02:22.875 --> 00:02:24.505 Like you got to work really hard to, to get 00:02:24.625 --> 00:02:24.965 Emmanuel: Yeah. 00:02:24.965 --> 00:02:27.015 So just, just like you have in the U. 00:02:27.015 --> 00:02:27.205 S. 00:02:27.205 --> 00:02:31.964 is, uh, competitive here in Nigeria because a lot of persons opt for 00:02:32.055 --> 00:02:34.088 WordPress because of it's easy to use. 00:02:34.088 --> 00:02:35.374 It's easy to understand. 00:02:35.684 --> 00:02:39.725 So a couple of, um, businesses, small businesses, and also large 00:02:40.075 --> 00:02:46.035 scale corporations, as well as government paracetals use WordPress. 00:02:46.245 --> 00:02:49.825 They utilize WordPress to build up their online presence 00:02:49.845 --> 00:02:50.945 and they're able to use that. 00:02:51.285 --> 00:02:56.415 And, um, it's a struggle because almost everyone is, um, you know, have 00:02:56.434 --> 00:03:02.645 something to offer in terms of like, uh, offerings based on WordPress. 00:03:02.655 --> 00:03:06.615 So it's really, um, Um, it's really competitive. 00:03:06.965 --> 00:03:12.135 Uh, another thing I think, um, gives that edge, gives us the edge is, 00:03:12.235 --> 00:03:14.105 uh, word of mouth and referrals. 00:03:14.605 --> 00:03:21.265 Uh, it's very easy to land a client when, um, a satisfied client or a satisfied 00:03:21.265 --> 00:03:26.145 client is saying, oh, you know, I know these guys and they, um, do good work. 00:03:26.845 --> 00:03:28.155 And they are satisfied with the work. 00:03:28.385 --> 00:03:33.235 So it's easier to land clients that way and be able to be, um, fortunate 00:03:33.265 --> 00:03:38.304 enough to have, um, clients coming through the doors by saying, Oh, you 00:03:38.305 --> 00:03:42.735 know, um, customer a referred me to your company and that's why I'm here. 00:03:42.784 --> 00:03:49.705 And I think in that sense, we don't have to do, um, much selling to the person and 00:03:49.705 --> 00:03:51.555 say, Oh, this is what we can do for you. 00:03:51.635 --> 00:03:55.775 Uh, we can just like highlights what, uh, the features and things that 00:03:55.775 --> 00:03:57.895 they want to have on their website. 00:03:58.174 --> 00:04:01.145 Basically having some kind of like discovery call with them. 00:04:01.145 --> 00:04:03.205 And it's really easy on from there. 00:04:03.205 --> 00:04:07.315 But, um, I'd, I'd have to say, I would have to admit that 00:04:07.315 --> 00:04:09.065 as a competitive landscape. 00:04:09.275 --> 00:04:09.565 Yes. 00:04:09.875 --> 00:04:15.860 Um, to put that in perspective, Um, we have about 36 states, 36 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:22.970 states and more than, um, I think WordPress powers at least, um, 65 00:04:22.970 --> 00:04:25.650 percent of websites here in Nigeria. 00:04:25.650 --> 00:04:27.360 So it's, it's like a huge, 00:04:28.045 --> 00:04:28.344 Matt: Wow. 00:04:28.660 --> 00:04:31.340 Emmanuel: it's like a huge gap, it's like a huge gap. 00:04:31.430 --> 00:04:37.615 It's just, um, I think just, A little bit of a customer base do opt for 00:04:37.735 --> 00:04:42.705 custom build softwares and all but WordPress is like the in thing so 00:04:42.715 --> 00:04:48.195 which gives to the community like sort of like reviving here in the 00:04:48.455 --> 00:04:50.795 country so something to be proud of. 00:04:51.495 --> 00:04:51.785 Matt: Hmm. 00:04:52.485 --> 00:04:55.615 Is there, is there that, that is pretty amazing. 00:04:55.645 --> 00:04:58.765 Is there a second place content management system? 00:04:58.775 --> 00:04:59.735 Is it Wix? 00:04:59.735 --> 00:05:00.535 Is it Squarespace? 00:05:00.545 --> 00:05:01.365 Is it Drupal? 00:05:01.375 --> 00:05:02.275 What's the next one? 00:05:02.515 --> 00:05:06.525 Emmanuel: So, um, I would, from, from experience, I would say it's 00:05:06.535 --> 00:05:12.895 usually, um, up to the customer to choose, like, okay, you know, we can 00:05:12.905 --> 00:05:16.674 give our recommendations and say, Oh, you know, this is what you can use. 00:05:16.730 --> 00:05:22.510 This is what is going to serve you best, but you also have the opportunity to say, 00:05:22.510 --> 00:05:24.420 okay, this is what I'm comfortable with. 00:05:24.790 --> 00:05:31.180 So, but, um, regarding question, I would say, um, Webflow is coming up a bit. 00:05:31.880 --> 00:05:38.650 It's coming up a bit, but, um, I think after after Webflow, I would say Drupal. 00:05:39.350 --> 00:05:46.190 Drupal is, is something that, uh, the, like, uh, I wanted to say the oldies, 00:05:46.290 --> 00:05:49.990 but, but, uh, Drupal is what, uh, 00:05:50.614 --> 00:05:51.085 Matt: Yeah, 00:05:51.270 --> 00:05:52.189 Emmanuel: um, use. 00:05:52.520 --> 00:05:56.500 Let's say the second place is Drupal, amongst other things, amongst other, 00:05:56.550 --> 00:05:58.550 um, content management systems. 00:05:59.140 --> 00:05:59.680 We have. 00:05:59.719 --> 00:05:59.900 Yeah. 00:06:00.599 --> 00:06:00.940 Matt: sure. 00:06:01.640 --> 00:06:04.879 So one of the biggest debates, and I was sort of debating this 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:06.070 yesterday on a live stream. 00:06:06.070 --> 00:06:08.129 Not really debating it, but we were highlighting it. 00:06:08.190 --> 00:06:11.770 Is a lot of folks say that WordPress isn't easy to use. 00:06:12.140 --> 00:06:13.959 Um, especially the block builder. 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:19.989 Especially where, you know, Gutenberg is still, you know, in active development. 00:06:20.289 --> 00:06:23.969 And changing almost every, every day, if not every iteration. 00:06:24.599 --> 00:06:26.080 What, what about for you? 00:06:26.099 --> 00:06:29.849 Do you find it complex or do your customers find it complex? 00:06:29.849 --> 00:06:32.189 And if they do, how do you bridge that gap? 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:33.779 Are you doing a lot of education? 00:06:33.859 --> 00:06:35.210 How do you onboard them? 00:06:35.379 --> 00:06:38.009 Is it truly as easy as, as we all think it is? 00:06:38.144 --> 00:06:44.244 Emmanuel: I think for, for beginner, they might find the whole thing overwhelming, 00:06:44.624 --> 00:06:47.094 but it just needs a little bit of guide. 00:06:47.114 --> 00:06:51.704 So what we usually do during the boarding process, we usually ask if 00:06:51.714 --> 00:06:57.054 they, they have a department that would manage the website for them. 00:06:57.064 --> 00:07:01.754 If they don't, they can also opt for, um, a maintenance department. 00:07:01.935 --> 00:07:06.444 Package or plan that's going to help them, uh, which means that our, 00:07:06.534 --> 00:07:10.604 our agency is going to help them, um, manage their websites for them. 00:07:10.624 --> 00:07:15.254 But in any case, if they decide, Oh, we still want to learn how to do this. 00:07:15.254 --> 00:07:18.854 So it means that we're going to have some form of training for 00:07:18.854 --> 00:07:21.904 them to just know the basics. 00:07:22.604 --> 00:07:29.564 It, uh, um, updating content, um, uh, creating posts, blog posts and all just 00:07:29.574 --> 00:07:34.564 more like, uh, helping them put out content on there, make the websites 00:07:35.264 --> 00:07:38.064 more engaging, put out press release. 00:07:38.374 --> 00:07:39.714 the press releases and all. 00:07:39.984 --> 00:07:47.354 So, um, I would say training helps cut down that need for the agency to keep 00:07:47.354 --> 00:07:50.704 stepping in at every point in time. 00:07:50.704 --> 00:07:55.454 So, um, the gap or will I say the bar for learning? 00:07:55.484 --> 00:07:58.934 It's not really, it's not really difficult, right? 00:07:59.374 --> 00:08:07.579 I would say it's up to the Speed at which, uh, the clients or the customer is able 00:08:07.579 --> 00:08:13.899 to grabs like, um, the concepts of using content management systems for everyone. 00:08:13.909 --> 00:08:19.269 There are persons who would be of the opinion that It's easy to use and 00:08:19.269 --> 00:08:23.679 there's also people that are going to find it difficult to use When it 00:08:23.679 --> 00:08:30.359 comes down to page builders and all so, um I would say for me it comes easy. 00:08:30.429 --> 00:08:39.319 Anyway, it comes easy for me and um for for us we use we we We use a couple 00:08:39.319 --> 00:08:44.569 of, um, page builders, uh, which, uh, Elementor is like kind of the first 00:08:44.579 --> 00:08:49.829 because of, um, its functionality and the ability to, um, customize 00:08:49.869 --> 00:08:52.279 things down to the, down to the board. 00:08:52.319 --> 00:08:54.509 So, um, it's wonderful. 00:08:54.509 --> 00:08:59.719 And it's also wonderful to see, um, Gutenberg, uh, come up and evolve, right. 00:09:00.009 --> 00:09:04.369 He's also evolving still in the process of, uh, getting there. 00:09:05.069 --> 00:09:10.799 We're also hopeful, looking forward to what the future holds for Gutenberg in 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:16.049 terms of like customizations, custom posts, how we can utilize, uh, utilize it. 00:09:16.059 --> 00:09:24.129 But overall, um, looking at the strides and, uh, um, the track, uh, or progress 00:09:24.129 --> 00:09:27.839 so far, it's, it's been nothing short of like, it's, it's been wonderful. 00:09:27.910 --> 00:09:32.989 Okay. 00:09:33.454 --> 00:09:38.124 Matt: you look at Elementor versus Gutenberg is, and it sounds like 00:09:38.124 --> 00:09:41.074 you, you might be using Elementor on a lot of client projects. 00:09:41.414 --> 00:09:45.444 Is there something that stands out to you that says, if Gutenberg had this, 00:09:45.444 --> 00:09:50.404 or if, if WordPress core had this, I would use it more over Elementor? 00:09:50.404 --> 00:09:54.084 Is there a particular feature set that, that you need WordPress to have 00:09:54.084 --> 00:09:57.904 in order to, to use plain old vanilla WordPress on your client sites? 00:09:58.604 --> 00:10:03.034 Emmanuel: So for these, I have to think, but, but for the first part that comes to 00:10:03.034 --> 00:10:09.554 mind, it's just a, why I just mentioned on the last, uh, minutes, uh, about the 00:10:09.594 --> 00:10:17.614 custom, uh, custom, um, pages that allows you to have custom sections and, um, 00:10:18.314 --> 00:10:27.284 It's ability to integrate manly with, uh, ACF, ACF, because, uh, we have customers 00:10:27.284 --> 00:10:32.444 or clients who come to us and they are very, very specific as to what they need. 00:10:33.114 --> 00:10:38.314 And, um, usually the go to is usually elemental because we just know 00:10:38.314 --> 00:10:42.724 that, okay, you know, he has the, um, capability to do that without 00:10:42.834 --> 00:10:45.394 us stressing, stressing about it. 00:10:45.884 --> 00:10:51.674 But, um, I don't know how far it goes because I've not tested it out, so 00:10:51.674 --> 00:10:57.524 I can say really that, okay, this is what's obtainable for Gutenberg. 00:10:58.004 --> 00:11:01.624 I've just only used it to, you know, do one or two things. 00:11:02.019 --> 00:11:07.029 And, um, I would say that's the area I'm just looking forward to. 00:11:07.079 --> 00:11:10.889 It's the ease to customize and have loops. 00:11:10.929 --> 00:11:12.049 Yeah, loops. 00:11:12.069 --> 00:11:15.589 Yeah, it just came to mind now. 00:11:15.689 --> 00:11:22.029 Loops, if that can be, you know, part of the futures in the future releases. 00:11:22.219 --> 00:11:25.109 I think it's something that can ease the stress. 00:11:25.419 --> 00:11:30.469 In terms of, um, uh, customizations and all for clients as well. 00:11:31.169 --> 00:11:34.469 Matt: Yeah, yeah, that's what I, that's what I hear a lot, right? 00:11:34.469 --> 00:11:38.329 Is custom templates, custom archive pages, dynamic data. 00:11:38.330 --> 00:11:42.289 I mean, a lot of that stuff, I think, is, you know, you can do, you 00:11:42.289 --> 00:11:44.289 can do dynamic archive pages now. 00:11:44.289 --> 00:11:48.959 Like you can have custom archive pages, which, you know, it's, It's doable. 00:11:48.959 --> 00:11:54.469 It's just not as, as elegant or as, uh, you know, in depth as what Elementor 00:11:54.469 --> 00:11:57.589 or another page builder would, will do, but it's doable now, but I'm 00:11:57.589 --> 00:12:00.199 certainly there with you, like when you start getting into dynamic data, 00:12:00.259 --> 00:12:05.209 ACF displaying these more complex, uh, websites, that's where it lacks. 00:12:05.209 --> 00:12:09.329 But I think they know, I think they know that it's just, it's just going to take 00:12:09.479 --> 00:12:09.859 Emmanuel: Yes. 00:12:09.859 --> 00:12:10.089 Yes. 00:12:10.119 --> 00:12:11.019 I, I see. 00:12:11.119 --> 00:12:11.849 Matt: to get there. 00:12:12.239 --> 00:12:13.099 What's your thoughts? 00:12:13.099 --> 00:12:13.719 I mean, a lot of, 00:12:14.419 --> 00:12:14.779 Emmanuel: sorry. 00:12:14.789 --> 00:12:15.009 Sorry. 00:12:15.009 --> 00:12:15.429 Go ahead. 00:12:16.129 --> 00:12:17.099 Matt: Sorry, go ahead. 00:12:17.479 --> 00:12:21.769 The question was going to be, What's your thoughts on the time factor? 00:12:21.859 --> 00:12:23.219 We hear that a lot. 00:12:23.219 --> 00:12:25.819 We always hear, Oh, it's going to take, you know, it's a ten year project. 00:12:25.819 --> 00:12:26.909 We're six years into it. 00:12:27.414 --> 00:12:33.944 Are you wondering like how much longer or are you much more calmer, uh, than 00:12:33.944 --> 00:12:35.884 we are waiting for these features to 00:12:35.914 --> 00:12:40.754 Emmanuel: I think, I think I'm calm because I already have, um, 00:12:41.034 --> 00:12:42.444 you know, something that serves. 00:12:43.024 --> 00:12:43.724 That sounds to me. 00:12:43.724 --> 00:12:50.484 Well, I think the only aspects, the only time I would be a little bit on the edge 00:12:50.514 --> 00:12:54.914 is, Oh, this page view that is out of commission and I can't use it anymore. 00:12:54.914 --> 00:12:59.244 Then I think, you know, you know, makes me, I think at that point I 00:12:59.244 --> 00:13:03.874 would, I would really get answers as to what's the timeline for this 00:13:03.924 --> 00:13:06.174 to, for these features to come up. 00:13:06.224 --> 00:13:11.434 And, um, I, I, I think I'm just, I'm just on there, you know, on 00:13:11.434 --> 00:13:13.784 the fence, on the fence on that. 00:13:13.784 --> 00:13:14.074 So, 00:13:14.774 --> 00:13:21.514 Matt: So I can understand why WordPress, uh, is so, uh, popular, uh, 00:13:21.544 --> 00:13:23.034 with, well, with everything, right? 00:13:23.114 --> 00:13:26.914 WordPress being the leading CMS, it's largely because it's free. 00:13:27.354 --> 00:13:32.124 Um, but sometimes that free part can overlook the open source part. 00:13:32.125 --> 00:13:32.194 Okay. 00:13:32.434 --> 00:13:36.764 Um, of the project or the value of having an open source project. 00:13:37.194 --> 00:13:42.574 Does open source matter to your customers and to your region of the world? 00:13:42.584 --> 00:13:46.994 Like, do they, they care about the open source factor or is it more like, Hey, 00:13:46.994 --> 00:13:50.414 this works for me because it's free, which is totally fine because I think that's 00:13:50.414 --> 00:13:52.464 how a majority of people use WordPress. 00:13:52.864 --> 00:13:59.204 Um, but how, how much does the open source underpinnings matter, uh, in your market? 00:13:59.384 --> 00:14:03.664 Emmanuel: Um, looking at the tech, uh, landscape here in Nigeria, I don't 00:14:03.694 --> 00:14:10.069 think, um, it really matters to the end users as to, um, Is it open source? 00:14:10.079 --> 00:14:11.599 Is it a closed system? 00:14:12.229 --> 00:14:18.174 Um, I, I, but I would say that the fact that it's an open source, uh, system has 00:14:18.174 --> 00:14:24.984 given a lot of persons edge to either play around with, uh, the system, try to 00:14:24.984 --> 00:14:33.084 learn and also try to end as a source of livelihood or a, a, a means to an end. 00:14:33.354 --> 00:14:35.604 So it, it has helped people also. 00:14:36.304 --> 00:14:39.744 like, um, learn more about the WordPress ecosystem. 00:14:40.074 --> 00:14:46.324 So, but, um, looking at how important it is to Nigerians as such, let's 00:14:46.324 --> 00:14:51.604 say people who are in the tech world, it doesn't really matter that much. 00:14:51.854 --> 00:14:55.624 Um, at the end of the day for customers, I would speak from my own 00:14:55.624 --> 00:14:59.414 experience anyway, for customers, what matters at the end of the day is. 00:15:00.114 --> 00:15:04.814 Um, their vision is portrayed and their vision is portrayed and they're 00:15:04.814 --> 00:15:11.654 able to do a X, Y, Z, as they've, uh, you know, explained in the onboarding 00:15:11.664 --> 00:15:12.904 during the onboarding process. 00:15:13.204 --> 00:15:18.915 So whether it's an open source or closed system, it doesn't really matter to them. 00:15:18.924 --> 00:15:23.585 Um, I think for us, we are the ones who can say, okay, it matters to us because, 00:15:23.905 --> 00:15:31.320 um, it gives us this, um, ability to, um, Play around with system thinker and find 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:33.200 out what works, what doesn't work for us. 00:15:33.500 --> 00:15:37.620 Um, and in terms of like releases or testing our plugins, we're 00:15:37.620 --> 00:15:39.829 able to test out this things. 00:15:40.089 --> 00:15:44.289 Uh, we eat that on our local hosts or on any server that we're using. 00:15:44.289 --> 00:15:47.780 So Um, I think that that makes sense in that way. 00:15:47.830 --> 00:15:53.780 I know it's more popular and, um, more, I think it matters more to people 00:15:53.800 --> 00:16:00.049 in areas like Europe and, uh, Europe and America, but, um, speaking from 00:16:00.580 --> 00:16:05.215 my own perspective here, Um, people don't really look at it that way. 00:16:05.335 --> 00:16:08.985 Yeah, but I think it's something that's going to need a little bit of education 00:16:09.015 --> 00:16:13.785 for people to understand what it means for something to be open source and for 00:16:13.785 --> 00:16:15.925 them to understand why it's important. 00:16:16.625 --> 00:16:21.295 Matt: Another sort of challenge, um, and I know you're a, uh, a 00:16:21.295 --> 00:16:23.455 meetup organizer, uh, as well. 00:16:23.455 --> 00:16:25.755 And I want to talk about like WordPress events and stuff like that. 00:16:25.894 --> 00:16:30.575 But one of the things that we've been debating a lot lately is the, uh, the 00:16:30.594 --> 00:16:33.204 age of, of WordPress users, right? 00:16:33.204 --> 00:16:34.465 A lot of us are getting older. 00:16:34.495 --> 00:16:35.725 I'm 43. 00:16:36.305 --> 00:16:38.985 Uh, there's just a lot of older folks still, you know, 00:16:38.985 --> 00:16:40.875 using WordPress these days. 00:16:41.165 --> 00:16:45.625 What about Uh, in your region of the world are, is it a younger group? 00:16:45.635 --> 00:16:50.424 Are, are younger folks coming to WordPress to learn how to code and develop, and 00:16:50.425 --> 00:16:52.105 that's how they get into the tech world. 00:16:52.475 --> 00:16:55.124 Um, you know, again, thanks to open source, like what's the age, 00:16:55.305 --> 00:16:58.664 uh, population look like, and are you concerned as a meetup 00:16:58.665 --> 00:17:01.755 organizer to get, you know, younger folks into, into WordPress? 00:17:02.014 --> 00:17:05.725 Emmanuel: think, um, the age, uh, the age bracket for. 00:17:06.425 --> 00:17:10.595 For meetups here from the top of my head, I would say 00:17:11.115 --> 00:17:15.155 between 1817 Upwards to like 40. 00:17:15.855 --> 00:17:22.264 Yeah, it's like 40 Down here because we have a couple of persons who students 00:17:22.605 --> 00:17:26.735 Uh, we have student bodies who said, you know, I would love to be part of this. 00:17:26.735 --> 00:17:29.675 We would love to learn more about WordPress because a lot of persons are 00:17:29.675 --> 00:17:35.174 just moving towards soft skills, learning how to code, learning how to build 00:17:35.175 --> 00:17:40.910 websites, learning how to blog and sort of Everyone has this that, you know, 00:17:40.940 --> 00:17:43.580 WordPress seems to be, uh, the solution. 00:17:43.580 --> 00:17:48.410 So we have, um, students, student bodies who reach out to us and say, 00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:49.700 you know, we want to be part of this. 00:17:49.705 --> 00:17:52.870 How do we be part of this and how do we join the community? 00:17:52.870 --> 00:17:57.880 So regarding the age bracket, I say we have younger persons coming 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:01.990 in and we also want to, we are also looking forward to have, um. 00:18:02.690 --> 00:18:08.800 You know, new events, new types of events that would also promote, um, you know, uh, 00:18:09.090 --> 00:18:14.649 what I say, high school that will promote, uh, the use of Internet and, um, the 00:18:14.649 --> 00:18:20.409 use of WordPress to high school students and also sort of like building that, 00:18:20.550 --> 00:18:26.440 uh, community base and helping people, um, understand, uh, more about the web. 00:18:26.695 --> 00:18:27.425 Yeah, really. 00:18:27.425 --> 00:18:27.755 So, 00:18:28.455 --> 00:18:28.725 Matt: Yeah. 00:18:29.425 --> 00:18:32.685 How, how is the meetup and WordPress events going? 00:18:32.765 --> 00:18:37.015 And obviously that hackathon sounded like it was a pretty good success, but is it, 00:18:37.075 --> 00:18:41.514 uh, consistent and are you, uh, always doing new events and have plenty of topics 00:18:41.590 --> 00:18:42.210 Emmanuel: Oh, okay. 00:18:42.310 --> 00:18:49.930 So, um, we, we reactivated the meetup, uh, sometime last year, sometime 00:18:49.930 --> 00:18:51.929 last year, I think January last year. 00:18:52.280 --> 00:19:00.670 And, um, due to, initially the meetup was a dormant since, uh, 2018, uh, due to some 00:19:00.710 --> 00:19:06.089 issues, uh, that WordPress had to look into, uh, with the past, um, organizer. 00:19:06.089 --> 00:19:06.129 Okay. 00:19:06.365 --> 00:19:12.885 So, um, we really had to speak with, uh, the WordPress community, the global 00:19:12.895 --> 00:19:18.595 community, and See a way of, you know, um, reactivating and it just stems 00:19:18.625 --> 00:19:22.945 like at the time I was volunteering to reactivate meetups and I have to speak 00:19:22.945 --> 00:19:28.894 to them like I'm in the city and, uh, people are just looking for a community 00:19:28.894 --> 00:19:34.095 to be part of, um, coming down to, uh, Port Harcourt for the first time. 00:19:34.445 --> 00:19:39.755 Um, We we had a couple of persons, you know, acts and there are also persons 00:19:39.755 --> 00:19:41.335 who say, you know, what's happening. 00:19:41.665 --> 00:19:46.044 Um, I see what press, you know, events happening in bigger cities like Lagos 00:19:46.044 --> 00:19:49.794 and Abuja, but it's not happening here. 00:19:49.795 --> 00:19:51.755 What's, you know, what's happening? 00:19:51.815 --> 00:19:57.825 And, um, we had to speak and I think the global community was more lenient. 00:19:57.895 --> 00:20:04.265 Um, also look at our requests and, um, they were able to say, 00:20:04.265 --> 00:20:08.325 okay, you know, you guys can, um, kick off and we're able to start. 00:20:08.395 --> 00:20:13.965 I think I think our first, our first event was, um, the 20th anniversary, 00:20:14.525 --> 00:20:15.974 uh, was the 20th anniversary. 00:20:15.974 --> 00:20:18.055 So we had to do that, reach out to sponsors. 00:20:18.595 --> 00:20:24.935 And they, we had a couple of persons come together and make the events a success. 00:20:24.945 --> 00:20:30.964 So we usually, um, have meetups monthly, mostly virtual, because 00:20:31.005 --> 00:20:36.464 we've not gotten like a physical space to, um, have our meetups, but we are 00:20:36.465 --> 00:20:38.295 looking and working towards that. 00:20:38.355 --> 00:20:40.655 But in the meantime, we are having our meetups. 00:20:41.095 --> 00:20:47.445 Uh, virtually, and it consists off like workshops and all, um, there was 00:20:47.445 --> 00:20:52.245 also the time to have fun because, uh, I think sometime in December, we had, 00:20:52.325 --> 00:20:57.714 um, an end of the hangout sort of where we had to come together, play games. 00:20:58.170 --> 00:21:03.900 Uh, discourse more about what press have three years and it was fun. 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:08.109 So coming down to this year, we just have still have, you know, virtual 00:21:08.109 --> 00:21:13.199 meetups except for, um, the part, the day where we had the do action 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:15.200 charity hackathon that we had to come. 00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:19.570 All together to one place to help give back to the society. 00:21:19.570 --> 00:21:21.320 So it was a wonderful experience. 00:21:21.320 --> 00:21:22.860 It was, um, successful. 00:21:23.560 --> 00:21:24.270 How can't it does? 00:21:24.270 --> 00:21:27.520 It was successful because, uh, so many things happen in the planning. 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:29.329 You know, it's not most times. 00:21:29.330 --> 00:21:31.869 It's not usually easy to, you know, coordinate things 00:21:31.870 --> 00:21:32.939 and bring things together. 00:21:33.110 --> 00:21:37.220 But, um, we're able to have that event and it was successful. 00:21:37.490 --> 00:21:38.820 Um, all the same. 00:21:39.520 --> 00:21:40.960 Matt: Yeah, that's, that's awesome. 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:41.110 Yeah. 00:21:41.110 --> 00:21:42.220 The, the photos look great. 00:21:42.590 --> 00:21:44.730 Uh, be honest with me on this answer. 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:45.690 How popular. 00:21:46.120 --> 00:21:51.070 Is blogging, uh, with, you know, the younger generation with where you're 00:21:51.070 --> 00:21:55.220 at, or is it just, Hey, we're just going to do Tik TOK and Instagram like that. 00:21:55.230 --> 00:21:56.520 We're just going to do social media. 00:21:56.760 --> 00:22:01.370 Like are people really still blogging and is it important to those that do? 00:22:01.420 --> 00:22:01.590 Emmanuel: Okay. 00:22:01.760 --> 00:22:06.510 So, uh, there are people who still blogging and, uh, is mainly, you 00:22:06.510 --> 00:22:07.930 know, on the entertainment side. 00:22:08.630 --> 00:22:12.010 Um, a a a couple of persons are still blogging. 00:22:12.010 --> 00:22:17.430 If I'm to put it on a scale of one to 10, it would be six. 00:22:17.850 --> 00:22:23.220 It, it, it will be on, on, on on six because the, the people who are going into 00:22:23.225 --> 00:22:28.475 blogging are going into blogging, uh, for the sake of either try to get AdSense, 00:22:29.175 --> 00:22:31.790 AdSense approval and any money online. 00:22:32.060 --> 00:22:37.100 But with the rise of, uh, TikTok and um, other platforms that. 00:22:37.290 --> 00:22:40.650 Oh, give some sort of like royalties. 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:45.180 Um, people are starting to divert to that because it seems like, you know, 00:22:45.180 --> 00:22:48.250 the fast way to make, to make money. 00:22:48.250 --> 00:22:50.000 I myself, I was a blogger before. 00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:54.900 You know, any of this I was, uh, I was blogging at at the time. 00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:56.100 That was, um, far back. 00:22:56.130 --> 00:23:02.260 Uh, that was as far, far back, 20, uh, 2012, I think. 00:23:02.320 --> 00:23:02.980 2012. 00:23:03.250 --> 00:23:03.880 2012. 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:05.470 So I, I was blogging initially. 00:23:05.475 --> 00:23:07.600 I, I was using, um, blog sports. 00:23:07.990 --> 00:23:10.255 Then I found out about wordpress.com. 00:23:10.765 --> 00:23:11.475 Use WordPress. 00:23:11.745 --> 00:23:19.385 com for a little bit before I, you know, um, evolved out of to using, um, 00:23:19.445 --> 00:23:24.965 the WordPress core on the local host and trying to create, um, something 00:23:25.045 --> 00:23:28.895 I know it was a bit of struggle back then due to the fact I didn't have 00:23:28.895 --> 00:23:33.105 any technical, um, skills at the time. 00:23:33.365 --> 00:23:36.975 The only thing I knew how to do at the time was to. 00:23:37.365 --> 00:23:40.715 Um, the only programming language I knew at the time was visual basic. 00:23:41.235 --> 00:23:43.845 And aside that I couldn't do much. 00:23:43.855 --> 00:23:47.575 So it was a learning curve, but we are here now. 00:23:48.275 --> 00:23:48.865 We are here now. 00:23:48.865 --> 00:23:50.175 So, yeah, 00:23:50.875 --> 00:23:53.995 Matt: Yeah, that's, that's what I learned to visual basic and then 00:23:53.995 --> 00:23:58.115 slowly learn my, my way up from, uh, from Drupal to, to WordPress. 00:23:58.815 --> 00:24:00.165 Um, fantastic stuff. 00:24:00.185 --> 00:24:03.465 Emmanuel, anything else you want to share with the audience, anything 00:24:03.465 --> 00:24:06.325 else coming up for your meetup, anything that you're launching, 00:24:06.345 --> 00:24:07.495 anything else you want to plug the 00:24:07.630 --> 00:24:08.490 Emmanuel: yeah, yeah. 00:24:08.490 --> 00:24:15.820 So, um, We are planning to host our very first WordCamp in November. 00:24:16.260 --> 00:24:21.730 Uh, we've not made the announcement yet, but we are planning picking out a venue 00:24:21.780 --> 00:24:25.090 and after picking out the venue and the dates, then we are able to, you know, 00:24:25.350 --> 00:24:30.289 announce, but it's, it's sort of like going to be like a big thing for us. 00:24:30.370 --> 00:24:35.435 And, um, I think, uh, WordCamp has, uh, Hosting what camps in Nigeria? 00:24:35.455 --> 00:24:38.375 I think there's only been about two what camps here in Nigeria. 00:24:38.755 --> 00:24:41.885 Um, one in one in Lagos. 00:24:41.945 --> 00:24:45.495 I don't know if they've had any budget, but, um, it is. 00:24:45.515 --> 00:24:50.335 This is like a huge deal for us here in the community alongside my co organizers. 00:24:50.335 --> 00:24:58.845 So we're all excited to have People come together across Nigeria to host this 00:24:58.845 --> 00:25:04.545 wonderful conference, and we are happy to be the first here in the South South, the 00:25:04.545 --> 00:25:07.025 South South side of Nigeria to host it. 00:25:07.025 --> 00:25:09.675 So, we are all excited, fingers crossed. 00:25:10.375 --> 00:25:12.345 Matt: Yes, that is, that's fantastic stuff. 00:25:12.355 --> 00:25:15.965 Emmanuel, thanks for hanging out today and sharing your story about WordPress. 00:25:16.385 --> 00:25:18.155 Uh, where can folks go to say thanks? 00:25:18.175 --> 00:25:19.745 What website do you want them to visit? 00:25:19.755 --> 00:25:21.485 What social media do you want them to 00:25:21.625 --> 00:25:26.455 Emmanuel: Oh, they can, um, you mean for the community or for my business? 00:25:26.495 --> 00:25:27.135 I don't know. 00:25:27.835 --> 00:25:28.045 Hello. 00:25:28.745 --> 00:25:30.495 Matt: Fantastic stuff. 00:25:30.495 --> 00:25:34.415 I think we might be losing connection a little bit, but Emmanuel, it 00:25:34.415 --> 00:25:36.325 was great talking to you today. 00:25:36.615 --> 00:25:40.615 Um, you know, congrats on all the success and I wish you all the best of luck. 00:25:41.315 --> 00:25:45.465 If you have any questions, feel free to feel free to shoot me any questions 00:25:45.465 --> 00:25:46.585 and I'll let you know when this 00:25:46.715 --> 00:25:47.155 Emmanuel: I will. 00:25:47.175 --> 00:25:48.815 Thank you very much for having me on the show. 00:25:49.515 --> 00:25:49.955 Matt: Thank you. 00:25:49.965 --> 00:25:50.655 Thanks, Emmanuel. 00:25:50.725 --> 00:25:51.145 Emmanuel: a nice day.