1 00:00:00,650 --> 00:00:04,110 Clinton: Welcome to Testing, Testing 1-2-3, a podcast 2 00:00:04,130 --> 00:00:08,370 brought to you by TestGenius. 3 00:00:08,990 --> 00:00:10,030 Jenny: Welcome everybody. 4 00:00:10,060 --> 00:00:13,020 My name is Jenny Arnez and I'm from TestGenius. 5 00:00:13,410 --> 00:00:19,610 We have today, Mike Callen, VP of Products at TestGenius back with us, as well as Dr. 6 00:00:19,610 --> 00:00:21,599 Clinton Kelly from ioPredict. 7 00:00:22,300 --> 00:00:25,580 If you've had a chance to see our previous session with Dr. 8 00:00:25,580 --> 00:00:29,800 Clinton Kelly, you know that we talked about all things personality testing. 9 00:00:30,630 --> 00:00:36,820 We have Clinton back today to talk about personality testing, specifically in 10 00:00:36,820 --> 00:00:43,490 the 911 dispatch environment, and using CritiCall, our dispatch assessment. 11 00:00:43,879 --> 00:00:46,379 Mike, do you want to say anything about CritiCall before we jump in? 12 00:00:46,970 --> 00:00:47,900 Mike: Yeah, absolutely. 13 00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:53,130 So CritiCall, as most people in the space know, is a skill and ability testing 14 00:00:53,130 --> 00:00:57,920 program that, that leans very heavily on multitasking ability while being 15 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,060 able To receive auditory information and enter it into a computer, which 16 00:01:02,060 --> 00:01:06,910 is one of the most core abilities that is necessary for success on 17 00:01:06,910 --> 00:01:09,569 day one in the dispatch environment. 18 00:01:09,580 --> 00:01:14,819 And I would say the dispatch environment in terms of our conversation has more 19 00:01:14,820 --> 00:01:21,360 than means more than 9 1 1 it's police, fire, it's EMS, it's 9 1 1 utility. 20 00:01:21,725 --> 00:01:27,845 Ambulance, there's all sorts of environments where the job 21 00:01:27,845 --> 00:01:32,585 that's being performed is very much in a stressful situation. 22 00:01:32,595 --> 00:01:37,125 You're under duress and it's a CritiCall incident, meaning that the effects 23 00:01:37,125 --> 00:01:42,385 of making good decisions can be very positive and the effects of making 24 00:01:42,775 --> 00:01:48,325 poor decisions or performing poorly can have incredibly negative effects. 25 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,080 Implications, including even death. 26 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,620 So it's a very important environment to be working in. 27 00:01:55,870 --> 00:02:00,150 CritiCall is a product that is a product of Biddle Consulting Group. 28 00:02:00,150 --> 00:02:02,979 It runs within our TestGenius suite. 29 00:02:03,419 --> 00:02:09,510 And a few years back, we had the great opportunity to work with Clinton 30 00:02:09,940 --> 00:02:13,860 and his firm to create, ground up a. 31 00:02:14,755 --> 00:02:18,165 Dispatcher specific personality test. 32 00:02:18,165 --> 00:02:21,295 And that's what we're really going to be meeting today to talk about. 33 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:22,850 Jenny: Wonderful. 34 00:02:23,540 --> 00:02:26,920 Clinton, you want to just introduce yourself real briefly for those 35 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:30,130 who didn't get a chance yet to watch our first session with you? 36 00:02:31,130 --> 00:02:31,530 Clinton: Yeah. 37 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:33,200 , I'm a Clinton Kelly. 38 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,429 I'm with ioPredict and I have a background in industrial and organizational 39 00:02:37,450 --> 00:02:43,149 psychology and I specifically work on helping organizations to implement 40 00:02:43,150 --> 00:02:44,900 and validate tests for hiring. 41 00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:48,040 And so that's what I've done for almost, I'd say about 20 years now. 42 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,910 It's implementing hiring tests in organizations. 43 00:02:51,890 --> 00:02:52,400 Jenny: Wonderful. 44 00:02:52,410 --> 00:02:53,020 Thank you. 45 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,600 So personality testing and CritiCall. 46 00:02:58,180 --> 00:02:58,880 Why does it matter? 47 00:02:58,880 --> 00:02:59,699 Why is it important? 48 00:03:02,410 --> 00:03:04,899 Clinton: It's, like Mike said, there's, there are multiple things. 49 00:03:04,899 --> 00:03:07,340 There's, there are, can you technically do the job? 50 00:03:07,340 --> 00:03:08,860 Can you work with computer screens? 51 00:03:08,860 --> 00:03:13,200 Can you be taking in information, auditory information and typing at the same time? 52 00:03:13,545 --> 00:03:15,964 And that's the technical, can you do the job? 53 00:03:16,274 --> 00:03:19,484 And then there's the personality side is, are you a good fit for this job? 54 00:03:19,494 --> 00:03:22,815 Do you have the personality type that is conducive to being successful? 55 00:03:23,195 --> 00:03:27,594 And so both of those pieces of the puzzle are important parts when it 56 00:03:27,594 --> 00:03:29,704 comes to making good hiring choices. 57 00:03:30,004 --> 00:03:31,235 And so that's why it matters. 58 00:03:31,264 --> 00:03:34,575 And these are like Mike said, these are stressful jobs, typically 59 00:03:34,575 --> 00:03:38,155 working longer shifts, dealing with situations that aren't always 60 00:03:38,165 --> 00:03:42,385 pleasant, and you need to make sure you have the right fit for this job. 61 00:03:42,799 --> 00:03:43,960 And so that's really important. 62 00:03:45,980 --> 00:03:49,730 Mike: I have had the pleasure of going to many conferences in the 63 00:03:49,730 --> 00:03:54,900 space and there's a conversation that occurs at least once or twice. 64 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,540 Every time I'm at a conference where I'm talking with the center director, 65 00:03:58,950 --> 00:04:02,680 and we're talking the profile of this person is somebody who's been around 66 00:04:02,690 --> 00:04:09,090 the, this particular vertical for 20 plus years and they have a really great. 67 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,670 Grasp and feel of the space. 68 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,990 And what these folks will tell me very often, and I never disagree with 69 00:04:15,990 --> 00:04:24,170 them is that, I've been in this job so long, I can sit down with an applicant. 70 00:04:24,190 --> 00:04:28,070 I can talk to them for five minutes and I can know whether or not they're 71 00:04:28,070 --> 00:04:30,500 going to be successful on the job. 72 00:04:30,820 --> 00:04:34,430 And they don't say that to me in a way where they're arguing with me 73 00:04:34,430 --> 00:04:36,180 saying they don't need to do testing. 74 00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:37,260 Not at all. 75 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:43,990 What we all understand about that particular situation is that, yeah, 76 00:04:44,030 --> 00:04:48,140 they probably have a really great feel about who would be successful 77 00:04:48,140 --> 00:04:49,580 and who wouldn't be successful. 78 00:04:49,860 --> 00:04:54,440 The problem is that particular process doesn't have a paper trail. 79 00:04:54,830 --> 00:04:58,530 That explains why somebody made an affirmative decision or why 80 00:04:58,530 --> 00:05:02,380 they made a negative decision, and it doesn't leave the applicant 81 00:05:02,380 --> 00:05:04,490 feeling very good about the process. 82 00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:08,140 I remember in years past, I applied for jobs where I thought I was 83 00:05:08,310 --> 00:05:10,040 super highly appropriate for it. 84 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:10,840 There was a. 85 00:05:11,195 --> 00:05:13,345 bogus selection process. 86 00:05:13,605 --> 00:05:16,715 I didn't get hired and I felt really bad about that. 87 00:05:17,115 --> 00:05:23,295 So one of the things that we want to do on the testing side for CritiCall 88 00:05:23,315 --> 00:05:29,145 and for this, these dispatcher positions is we want to provide a. 89 00:05:29,370 --> 00:05:35,630 process that's holistic and really one that does what these center directors 90 00:05:35,660 --> 00:05:39,500 know that they could do, but creates a paper trail at the same time. 91 00:05:40,070 --> 00:05:43,580 And Jenny, you asked Clinton about why, you want to do the 92 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:45,860 personality testing in this space. 93 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,760 And one of the things that we look at in testing and selection is you 94 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:55,530 look at Job performance as like a pie with different pieces in there. 95 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:01,860 And so you can have tests that measure audio data entry and map reading and 96 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,330 multitasking and those kinds of things. 97 00:06:04,330 --> 00:06:09,400 And each of those pieces of pie are going to represent different 98 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,220 aspects of job performance. 99 00:06:11,470 --> 00:06:17,230 And so the goal in a testing process is to try to get as many 100 00:06:17,230 --> 00:06:23,360 pieces of that Pie filled up with CritiCall performance dimensions. 101 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,620 And some of those are going to be hard skills. 102 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,070 Some of them are going to be, soft skills, situational judgment. 103 00:06:31,380 --> 00:06:34,840 And many of those things are going to be personality, particularly in this 104 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:39,100 realm, because it's such a difficult job is you want to know as much as you 105 00:06:39,100 --> 00:06:44,470 can know from a job related perspective about the personality of this person. 106 00:06:44,730 --> 00:06:47,835 Clinton said, specifically to be able to find a good job. 107 00:06:47,905 --> 00:06:48,735 a good fit. 108 00:06:48,795 --> 00:06:52,355 And so that's really what our goal is with this particular product right here. 109 00:06:54,405 --> 00:06:59,215 Jenny: So if I was a hiring manager or a sergeant in an agency 110 00:06:59,215 --> 00:07:04,005 that's implementing this CritiCall and using the personality test. 111 00:07:04,765 --> 00:07:08,185 Why it's important to me is that I know that I can hire basically the right person 112 00:07:08,325 --> 00:07:10,725 for the job who's going to stay too. 113 00:07:10,735 --> 00:07:11,485 Is that correct? 114 00:07:13,445 --> 00:07:13,875 Clinton: Yeah. 115 00:07:13,875 --> 00:07:18,495 We've shown with how we built the test and the validation study that 116 00:07:18,495 --> 00:07:22,485 we've done, we've shown that higher scores on this test are more likely 117 00:07:22,505 --> 00:07:26,475 to be rated As higher performers on the job by their supervisors. 118 00:07:26,835 --> 00:07:29,565 And so there, we have actual data that says, Hey, it doesn't get, and there's 119 00:07:29,565 --> 00:07:33,295 no guarantee cause as Mike said, there's a certain amount of, we can't predict 120 00:07:33,345 --> 00:07:37,655 up with a hundred percent accuracy, but we show through our study that 121 00:07:37,695 --> 00:07:41,135 higher scores on the test, they're more likely to be rated as higher 122 00:07:41,135 --> 00:07:42,650 performance by their supervisors. 123 00:07:43,210 --> 00:07:45,800 Mike: Why don't you talk a little bit Clinton about how 124 00:07:45,830 --> 00:07:47,950 this particular test was created. 125 00:07:48,250 --> 00:07:54,270 You, there's a lot of standard personality tests that have the same 110 items. 126 00:07:54,270 --> 00:07:57,160 They get asked, everybody gets asked the same question, but 127 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:58,850 they're scored or keyed differently. 128 00:07:59,110 --> 00:08:01,090 This test wasn't an off the shelf test. 129 00:08:01,090 --> 00:08:02,650 This was created ground up. 130 00:08:02,650 --> 00:08:06,720 And, when you talk about that relationship between job performance 131 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,690 and the items, talk about how that was established a little bit. 132 00:08:10,910 --> 00:08:13,950 Clinton: Yeah, so what we did is we looked and we analyzed the 133 00:08:13,950 --> 00:08:17,130 job and we did this analysis of the job to see what is important. 134 00:08:17,140 --> 00:08:20,820 We talked with different agencies to see, okay, what are the important 135 00:08:20,850 --> 00:08:24,060 characteristics of individuals who are successful on the job? 136 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:29,920 And so we custom developed this test from scratch specifically for dispatchers. 137 00:08:30,530 --> 00:08:34,960 And we designed, we built it with the attention to measure 138 00:08:34,980 --> 00:08:36,410 things like adaptability. 139 00:08:36,785 --> 00:08:39,585 With a heinous job, it's important that people can adapt and on the 140 00:08:39,595 --> 00:08:42,305 fly, they get calls and have to figure out how to handle things. 141 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,480 Another one, one of the things we tend to measure is composure. 142 00:08:46,580 --> 00:08:48,920 You have to be able to remain calm when you're on a call. 143 00:08:49,690 --> 00:08:52,830 Another thing is resilience and not being able to let a certain, 144 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,990 be affected one call to the next. 145 00:08:54,990 --> 00:08:59,110 You have to be able to let that one go and move on following procedure and policy. 146 00:08:59,285 --> 00:09:02,515 That's also another thing you, while it's important to have the adaptable, 147 00:09:02,665 --> 00:09:05,455 you also need individuals in these types of roles who are not going 148 00:09:05,455 --> 00:09:08,465 to fly by the seat of their pants, that they know what the policy and 149 00:09:08,465 --> 00:09:10,795 procedure is in certain situations. 150 00:09:11,405 --> 00:09:13,545 And then one of the other ones is confidences. 151 00:09:13,555 --> 00:09:17,505 You have to also be able to take some, I say, be a little bit assertive 152 00:09:17,555 --> 00:09:19,055 and be confident on the calls. 153 00:09:19,510 --> 00:09:23,280 When you're in these situations and then lastly multitasking a 154 00:09:23,330 --> 00:09:26,780 preference for multitasking and that's pretty apparent for anyone 155 00:09:26,780 --> 00:09:29,430 who's been in a dispatching agency. 156 00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:33,690 If you've walked into a room, you just see the multiple screens, the 157 00:09:33,690 --> 00:09:35,200 phones and things that are going on. 158 00:09:35,565 --> 00:09:37,535 There's lots of things done at the same time. 159 00:09:37,535 --> 00:09:40,255 So just individuals who have a preference or have a preference for 160 00:09:40,265 --> 00:09:43,225 multitasking behaviors is another thing we were attempting to measure. 161 00:09:44,365 --> 00:09:45,575 Mike: And you bring up a good point. 162 00:09:45,575 --> 00:09:48,425 When you talk about these, you were talking about which one was it? 163 00:09:48,465 --> 00:09:50,385 Adaptable, sorry, create being creative. 164 00:09:50,425 --> 00:09:53,275 I can't remember exactly which one it was, but the point that you're 165 00:09:53,285 --> 00:09:59,025 making is that there's a, this whole continuum of this particular scale. 166 00:09:59,370 --> 00:10:02,780 And there's the very top end of it and the very low end of it. 167 00:10:03,110 --> 00:10:09,090 And there's actually a sweet spot within each of these areas that, that 168 00:10:09,090 --> 00:10:13,010 you want people to fit into because the highest performers are there. 169 00:10:13,270 --> 00:10:19,310 It's not that you want people who are rated a hundred out of a hundred on all 170 00:10:19,310 --> 00:10:24,210 of these particular areas, rather you want them to fall within a certain range. 171 00:10:24,210 --> 00:10:25,210 How do you determine that? 172 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:31,470 Clinton: Yeah, so what we did in this case is we actually, we developed a number of 173 00:10:31,470 --> 00:10:35,040 different test items designed to measure those areas that I was just talking about. 174 00:10:35,090 --> 00:10:40,680 And we collected data from a number of variety of different dispatching agencies 175 00:10:40,690 --> 00:10:42,530 throughout the United States and Canada. 176 00:10:42,590 --> 00:10:45,920 And so we asked them, we said, hey, we got their employees, current 177 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,200 dispatchers, and we said, can we get them to take this test? 178 00:10:49,595 --> 00:10:53,085 And then we created a supervisor a performance rating scale. 179 00:10:53,335 --> 00:10:57,475 So in the, what you can see on the screen here, we created a scale where supervisors 180 00:10:57,505 --> 00:11:00,755 rated the individuals who took this test. 181 00:11:01,005 --> 00:11:03,675 They rated their performance on these different areas of being adaptable, 182 00:11:03,675 --> 00:11:05,435 flexible, ambitious, motivated. 183 00:11:06,095 --> 00:11:07,935 And we had them rate those employees. 184 00:11:07,945 --> 00:11:09,405 So we had people throughout the U. 185 00:11:09,405 --> 00:11:09,555 S. 186 00:11:09,555 --> 00:11:12,035 and Canada who are current dispatchers take this test. 187 00:11:12,385 --> 00:11:15,575 We had their supervisors rate them on their job performance. 188 00:11:16,550 --> 00:11:19,710 And then we looked at, we then evaluated the relationship. 189 00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:23,820 Are there patterns in the data that we're seeing that people who are higher or lower 190 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,030 on these questions or on these scales that are more likely to be successful in 191 00:11:28,030 --> 00:11:30,090 the job as rated by their supervisors? 192 00:11:30,090 --> 00:11:32,530 So their supervisors say they're more successful and what patterns 193 00:11:32,530 --> 00:11:37,590 on these different test questions result in better dispatchers. 194 00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:39,710 And sometimes you can get lucky. 195 00:11:39,930 --> 00:11:41,290 What you can do is you can get lucky. 196 00:11:41,290 --> 00:11:44,650 Like I like it is you can throw spaghetti against the wall and maybe it makes 197 00:11:44,650 --> 00:11:47,480 some magical image one time, right? 198 00:11:48,140 --> 00:11:49,440 But can you do it again? 199 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:50,670 Can you replicate it? 200 00:11:51,170 --> 00:11:54,650 And so what we did here to avoid making sure that we didn't just 201 00:11:54,650 --> 00:11:57,720 capitalize on chance, we didn't just get lucky with these questions. 202 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,840 Like we threw all this stuff in the black box. 203 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,320 And while magically people who preferred to eat, sushi versus 204 00:12:03,330 --> 00:12:05,110 pizza are better dispatchers. 205 00:12:05,410 --> 00:12:09,160 We might, you might find that pattern in data once, but we did here, as you 206 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,810 see on this slide here, see sample one and sample two, we collected 207 00:12:12,820 --> 00:12:14,775 data From all these individuals. 208 00:12:14,805 --> 00:12:16,845 And we randomly split the sample in half. 209 00:12:16,875 --> 00:12:19,605 We randomly said, okay, you're sample one, you're sample two. 210 00:12:19,625 --> 00:12:22,245 We did a random split in sample one. 211 00:12:22,245 --> 00:12:25,085 We said, okay, these questions predicted performance. 212 00:12:25,530 --> 00:12:29,610 And then we use that, we said, do they also predict performance in sample two? 213 00:12:30,300 --> 00:12:33,440 And that cross validation, that helps us to make sure that we didn't 214 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:34,850 just get lucky the first time. 215 00:12:35,180 --> 00:12:37,550 And you can see these correlations here. 216 00:12:37,870 --> 00:12:41,830 This is, not to get too deep into the data here, but these correlations, when there's 217 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,360 stars next to them, these means they are significant predictors of performance. 218 00:12:45,370 --> 00:12:50,460 They are predicting job performance in both sample one and sample two. 219 00:12:50,990 --> 00:12:53,800 And so we're able to show that we're consistently predicting performance 220 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,500 and didn't just get lucky in the way of the, some unique, just saying 221 00:12:58,500 --> 00:12:59,890 that we just capitalize on chance. 222 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,150 Mike: And one of the things that I think that's unique about this 223 00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:11,125 particular personality test is that you guys wrote all these items ground 224 00:13:11,135 --> 00:13:12,905 up specifically for this space. 225 00:13:12,905 --> 00:13:17,115 So this isn't, one of those personality tests that's talking about, how 226 00:13:17,115 --> 00:13:21,265 much you enjoy long walks on the beach or crowded movie theaters. 227 00:13:21,445 --> 00:13:27,655 It's talking about, real situations that pertain to this environment. 228 00:13:28,275 --> 00:13:29,725 Can you talk a little bit about that? 229 00:13:29,735 --> 00:13:31,815 Why is that important and how does that help? 230 00:13:33,035 --> 00:13:36,005 Clinton: Yeah, it makes it feel a little more like the job. 231 00:13:36,035 --> 00:13:36,979 We talked about that, call that call. 232 00:13:37,130 --> 00:13:40,480 Cause some face validity, it feels a little more job related 233 00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:41,590 to those taking the test. 234 00:13:41,940 --> 00:13:44,520 And so what we have in the way we set up this 235 00:13:44,530 --> 00:13:48,609 test, they are what we call paired like a forced choice personality test 236 00:13:49,020 --> 00:13:52,980 and it's where we have two different statements and we say something like 237 00:13:52,990 --> 00:13:57,869 i'm more likely to And on the left hand side, I might say follow the rules 238 00:13:57,909 --> 00:14:01,939 and the right hand side is change the rules, And so we have that don't you? 239 00:14:02,739 --> 00:14:07,355 Yes, we do have an image of that You That is on right here. 240 00:14:07,385 --> 00:14:08,425 Right here is an example. 241 00:14:08,425 --> 00:14:11,815 This is a silly example here, but let's just say I am more likely 242 00:14:11,815 --> 00:14:14,625 to eat a hamburger or eat a salad. 243 00:14:15,315 --> 00:14:18,594 And so you have the ones on the left or on the right, and people 244 00:14:18,594 --> 00:14:21,575 indicate where they fall in this continuum of their preference. 245 00:14:22,820 --> 00:14:27,100 We set up the questions, the ones on the actual test to be, 246 00:14:27,100 --> 00:14:29,140 so they've look more job related. 247 00:14:29,140 --> 00:14:31,780 For example, something like this, I'm more likely to, on the left hand 248 00:14:31,780 --> 00:14:36,160 side, make quick decisive decisions or make long thought out decisions. 249 00:14:36,370 --> 00:14:39,130 Inherently, neither one of those is bad. 250 00:14:39,180 --> 00:14:41,725 Someone who makes long thought versus quick decisive. 251 00:14:42,135 --> 00:14:45,045 Sometimes there could be benefit to one or these the other, depending on the job. 252 00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:46,425 But in this particular job. 253 00:14:46,685 --> 00:14:50,405 We actually, you need to, you are typically respond, responding quickly. 254 00:14:50,405 --> 00:14:52,255 You need to make quick, decisive decisions. 255 00:14:52,625 --> 00:14:56,025 And so we were looking, are the people who make quick, decisive decisions, are 256 00:14:56,035 --> 00:15:00,235 those who are more likely to be successful in the job as rated by their supervisors? 257 00:15:00,265 --> 00:15:02,845 And so those are the types of things we're looking at with these questions. 258 00:15:02,894 --> 00:15:07,955 We try to write them in ways that are like Mike has said, more related to the job. 259 00:15:08,090 --> 00:15:12,770 Mike: And that's borne out in the data analysis. 260 00:15:12,890 --> 00:15:16,240 How many people did we work with on this? 261 00:15:16,260 --> 00:15:17,750 It was, seems like it was about what? 262 00:15:17,770 --> 00:15:19,890 300, 320 people or so. 263 00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:21,720 Clinton: Yeah, it was over 300. 264 00:15:22,090 --> 00:15:22,400 Yeah. 265 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:28,054 And so you can see here three in the final sample, we had, I think we had 370 or 380. 266 00:15:28,424 --> 00:15:32,034 In the overall of good data, when I say good data, people that fully 267 00:15:32,034 --> 00:15:35,674 completed the test, we also had supervisor ratings of performance. 268 00:15:35,724 --> 00:15:38,444 So we had some people who completed the test, but we didn't get ratings 269 00:15:38,444 --> 00:15:39,834 of performance from the supervisors. 270 00:15:40,234 --> 00:15:43,654 And some people were the supervisors gave us ratings on how they performed, but 271 00:15:43,654 --> 00:15:44,994 the employee didn't complete the test. 272 00:15:45,014 --> 00:15:48,994 And but of where we had good data, a little over 300 individuals. 273 00:15:49,649 --> 00:15:52,379 And you can see, we randomly split that sample in half. 274 00:15:52,409 --> 00:15:56,039 In each one, we get about 150 in those random splits of the sample. 275 00:15:57,359 --> 00:15:58,029 Mike: Excellent. 276 00:15:58,329 --> 00:15:59,539 I'm going to close my door. 277 00:15:59,579 --> 00:16:03,879 My neighbor's dogs are barking at the most opportune moment. 278 00:16:03,999 --> 00:16:04,929 I appreciate that. 279 00:16:05,619 --> 00:16:06,579 Thank you for that. 280 00:16:07,009 --> 00:16:10,399 Jenny, is there anything that's come to mind right now for you? 281 00:16:11,179 --> 00:16:14,489 Jenny: As I'm looking at this list of performance criteria, and you 282 00:16:14,739 --> 00:16:16,634 talked about designing the test. 283 00:16:16,644 --> 00:16:18,534 Did you do some sort of a job analysis? 284 00:16:18,544 --> 00:16:20,064 Is that what happened? 285 00:16:21,164 --> 00:16:24,704 Clinton: Yeah, so we did do that job analysis and we looked at, and actually 286 00:16:24,704 --> 00:16:28,724 at at Biddle and with TestGenius, they had done this job analysis actually 287 00:16:29,074 --> 00:16:30,884 previously a couple years back. 288 00:16:31,224 --> 00:16:37,139 And we used, we leveraged that job analysis to identify target areas for 289 00:16:37,159 --> 00:16:39,419 potential development of test items. 290 00:16:39,729 --> 00:16:43,369 But then we also had some phone calls with a number of different managers 291 00:16:43,399 --> 00:16:47,619 of dispatching agencies throughout the country, where we asked them to confirm 292 00:16:47,669 --> 00:16:51,189 just again, just as a second, confirm of what we were seeing in the job analysis 293 00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:55,589 results, what are most predictive of success of dispatchers when it comes to 294 00:16:55,589 --> 00:16:59,389 soft skills or the personality kind of different things, different constructs. 295 00:16:59,899 --> 00:17:03,019 And we use that to drive the development of the content. 296 00:17:03,554 --> 00:17:06,694 And one of the things I like to say, we custom developed this, like Mike had said. 297 00:17:07,094 --> 00:17:11,624 But whenever you make a test, not just like on any team, on a sports team, 298 00:17:11,634 --> 00:17:13,414 not all the players are all stars. 299 00:17:13,624 --> 00:17:16,324 We developed these questions, not all of the items worked. 300 00:17:16,454 --> 00:17:21,134 So when we originally developed the test, we had over a hundred questions 301 00:17:21,204 --> 00:17:23,174 that were where we collected data. 302 00:17:23,654 --> 00:17:25,944 Some of those questions did not predict performance. 303 00:17:25,944 --> 00:17:28,574 It didn't matter which side they picked, which side of the 304 00:17:28,574 --> 00:17:29,564 statement they were picking. 305 00:17:29,564 --> 00:17:33,414 He said, Hey, people on either side were equally as effective on the 306 00:17:33,414 --> 00:17:34,854 job according to their supervisors. 307 00:17:34,994 --> 00:17:36,484 So those are questions that got tossed. 308 00:17:36,494 --> 00:17:39,284 They didn't make the final cut because we said it didn't really 309 00:17:39,284 --> 00:17:40,684 matter which side you were on. 310 00:17:40,844 --> 00:17:43,034 These individuals, they didn't seem to predict. 311 00:17:43,094 --> 00:17:44,744 These items didn't predict performance. 312 00:17:45,024 --> 00:17:47,174 And so that's an important thing when you do this development is to 313 00:17:47,184 --> 00:17:50,104 evaluate your item and see which ones are working and which ones aren't. 314 00:17:50,609 --> 00:17:51,569 And those got tossed. 315 00:17:51,569 --> 00:17:53,519 The ones that didn't work, we said, Hey, it didn't work. 316 00:17:53,589 --> 00:17:54,919 We thought we might, but it didn't. 317 00:17:56,859 --> 00:18:03,419 Mike: It's important to be able to know how to use this kind of test. 318 00:18:03,419 --> 00:18:11,049 One of the things that we run into is that people have strengths and weaknesses, even 319 00:18:12,069 --> 00:18:18,769 really high performing people have certain areas of their knowledge, skill, ability, 320 00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:24,979 personality, personal characteristics that would be considered to be very high. 321 00:18:24,999 --> 00:18:30,959 And they might also have some areas that aren't as strong because, no, 322 00:18:31,069 --> 00:18:33,259 no man is a superhero or woman. 323 00:18:33,929 --> 00:18:39,159 When we're looking at the results, we want to be able to take that into account. 324 00:18:39,609 --> 00:18:44,599 And one of the things that I really love about the report is that Clinton, you 325 00:18:44,599 --> 00:18:50,429 and Jason spent a lot of time looking at this overall performance and then certain 326 00:18:50,429 --> 00:18:53,379 subscales that had validity coefficients. 327 00:18:53,839 --> 00:18:57,249 But then to be able to ask probing questions. 328 00:18:57,549 --> 00:19:05,279 So we have a saying in our environment or work environment here, not everybody 329 00:19:05,569 --> 00:19:08,919 is good at everything, but it's important to understand where your 330 00:19:08,919 --> 00:19:12,859 weaknesses lie, maybe more important to not think that your weaknesses 331 00:19:12,859 --> 00:19:15,689 are strengths, but also to be able to 332 00:19:16,164 --> 00:19:19,254 remediate those situations, to be able to understand this 333 00:19:19,264 --> 00:19:20,814 isn't necessarily a strength. 334 00:19:21,204 --> 00:19:27,144 So can you maybe walk us through a sample score report and show us, how is it that 335 00:19:27,144 --> 00:19:31,904 a person who's a hiring manager might use this report, how they might interpret 336 00:19:31,904 --> 00:19:37,164 it and how they might deal with some of these aspects of the scoring and maybe 337 00:19:37,164 --> 00:19:41,739 some followup questions in order to get the best utility out of this report. 338 00:19:43,069 --> 00:19:43,669 Clinton: Yeah, sure. 339 00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:44,299 We can do that. 340 00:19:44,299 --> 00:19:47,414 Let's pull up that report and let's walk through here. 341 00:19:47,854 --> 00:19:50,454 So here is a sample report here. 342 00:19:50,454 --> 00:19:52,964 We'll start to go through this is one I just completed. 343 00:19:52,994 --> 00:19:56,414 You can see it gives a, some information just about the test 344 00:19:56,424 --> 00:19:59,134 taker and their overall test score. 345 00:19:59,314 --> 00:20:04,994 We give three bands of scores and those scores are falling into either 346 00:20:05,004 --> 00:20:07,674 they are, I'm trying to remember off the top of my head, highly 347 00:20:07,704 --> 00:20:10,154 recommended or somewhat recommended. 348 00:20:10,204 --> 00:20:13,084 You'll see at the top right there, I got a highly recommended score. 349 00:20:13,659 --> 00:20:17,009 We also give the total time that the person took on the test. 350 00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:18,939 We give them a 30 minute time limit. 351 00:20:18,939 --> 00:20:22,169 As you can see, I've completed this a number of times, but most 352 00:20:22,169 --> 00:20:25,149 people, it's probably 10 minutes or less that are completing this test. 353 00:20:25,149 --> 00:20:26,979 It doesn't take a long time to complete. 354 00:20:27,209 --> 00:20:30,259 We give them plenty of time because it's not meant to be a speeded test. 355 00:20:30,289 --> 00:20:32,989 In other words, we're not trying to say, Hey, finish this. 356 00:20:32,989 --> 00:20:33,659 You better hurry up. 357 00:20:33,659 --> 00:20:35,319 If you don't go fast, you're not going to finish. 358 00:20:35,679 --> 00:20:40,039 We have some background here about the report and what we want to do is we 359 00:20:40,039 --> 00:20:45,099 mentioned on this background is we want you like to really focus on the driving 360 00:20:45,099 --> 00:20:47,039 factor really should be the overall score. 361 00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:50,109 This overall recommendation, this highly recommended, recommended, 362 00:20:50,109 --> 00:20:51,239 or somewhat recommended. 363 00:20:51,679 --> 00:20:54,999 And the reason for that is because that's considering the most information 364 00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:59,179 that's considering all of the test items that create the overall test. 365 00:20:59,669 --> 00:21:03,929 And what we found from our test, for example, those who are highly 366 00:21:03,929 --> 00:21:09,499 recommended, they have a 77 percent shot of being successful on the job. 367 00:21:10,049 --> 00:21:14,729 And we, what we mean by being successful on the job is they 368 00:21:14,729 --> 00:21:18,709 were rated as above average job performers by their supervisors. 369 00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:24,644 So 77 percent of the people who have a highly recommended score, in our data 370 00:21:24,644 --> 00:21:28,404 collection, they were above average in their job performance ratings. 371 00:21:29,584 --> 00:21:33,764 If you drop down to recommended, 53 percent of those in the recommended were 372 00:21:33,764 --> 00:21:35,924 above average in their job performance. 373 00:21:36,584 --> 00:21:39,964 And if you go down to somewhat recommended, only 31 percent of 374 00:21:39,964 --> 00:21:43,589 those individuals were above average in their job performance ratings. 375 00:21:44,319 --> 00:21:46,969 So as you can see from those numbers, again, no test is perfect, but you 376 00:21:46,969 --> 00:21:52,209 can see there, there is value as you go further down in those scores, 377 00:21:52,569 --> 00:21:56,839 you're are more likely to bring someone on who is not going to be 378 00:21:57,619 --> 00:22:01,514 very as good in their job performance and that the data bears that out. 379 00:22:03,204 --> 00:22:07,554 Mike: I think this is very interesting in terms of having the personality 380 00:22:07,554 --> 00:22:13,024 test coupled with the CritiCall hard skills test because with the 381 00:22:13,024 --> 00:22:17,994 hard skills test there are certain skills and abilities that we're 382 00:22:17,994 --> 00:22:20,394 expecting on day one of the job. 383 00:22:20,424 --> 00:22:24,274 You want people to be able to hear auditory information and 384 00:22:24,274 --> 00:22:26,064 enter it into a CAD system. 385 00:22:26,064 --> 00:22:29,304 Obviously they're going to get trained on the CAD system, but they have to have 386 00:22:29,324 --> 00:22:31,574 the core skills and abilities in place. 387 00:22:31,574 --> 00:22:34,354 They need to be able to multitask under duress. 388 00:22:34,554 --> 00:22:38,994 They need to be able to, read maps and understand, coordinates and such. 389 00:22:39,294 --> 00:22:44,064 So these things are all very important and they're deal killers, right? 390 00:22:44,104 --> 00:22:47,709 If you possess these skills and abilities. 391 00:22:47,709 --> 00:22:49,669 You have the ability to move forward. 392 00:22:49,889 --> 00:22:54,349 If you don't possess these skills and abilities, then you really don't 393 00:22:54,359 --> 00:23:00,019 have any real reason to be continuing in the process because we're, the 394 00:23:00,019 --> 00:23:02,929 centers are expecting people to come into this environment day one. 395 00:23:03,429 --> 00:23:07,949 So if you take that, you say, X percentage of the applicants 396 00:23:07,959 --> 00:23:11,279 have the skills and abilities necessary for success on the job. 397 00:23:11,289 --> 00:23:14,549 Now you take them and you run them just those people, 398 00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:16,059 through the personality test. 399 00:23:16,739 --> 00:23:19,869 Voiceover: And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. 400 00:23:21,659 --> 00:23:23,799 Ready to revolutionize your HR strategies? 401 00:23:24,199 --> 00:23:28,199 Head over to TestGenius.com to discover our latest tools and solutions designed 402 00:23:28,199 --> 00:23:29,759 to streamline your hiring processes. 403 00:23:31,279 --> 00:23:34,699 Mike: You're getting a whole nother bite at the apple right there in terms 404 00:23:34,709 --> 00:23:40,099 of predictive success of selecting the right person for the job. 405 00:23:40,449 --> 00:23:45,729 So it's really your odds making you're putting the odds in your favor that 406 00:23:45,729 --> 00:23:49,939 the hiring select or the selection decision that you're making is going to 407 00:23:49,939 --> 00:23:51,729 be advantageous for your organization. 408 00:23:51,729 --> 00:23:52,329 Is that right? 409 00:23:53,479 --> 00:23:54,649 Clinton: Oh, that's absolutely correct. 410 00:23:54,689 --> 00:23:57,769 It's a, you did a great job of explaining in common terms. 411 00:23:57,769 --> 00:24:00,309 We, in every profession, you like to use fancy terms to make 412 00:24:00,309 --> 00:24:01,829 yourself sound smarter than you are. 413 00:24:01,909 --> 00:24:03,829 And we call that incremental variance. 414 00:24:04,044 --> 00:24:08,714 And so then, yeah, and and just what that means essentially is those tests, like you 415 00:24:08,714 --> 00:24:11,574 said, Mike, they tell us different things and that's what we mean by incremental. 416 00:24:11,624 --> 00:24:15,434 It adds on to the information that a technical test tells us. 417 00:24:15,434 --> 00:24:18,584 So technical tests of, typing auditory information, entering 418 00:24:18,624 --> 00:24:22,524 things in that gives us that predicts differently than a personality test. 419 00:24:22,524 --> 00:24:24,954 And that's just the term we call it incremental variance. 420 00:24:24,994 --> 00:24:29,224 And so you're adding unique pieces of information that give you 421 00:24:29,304 --> 00:24:31,324 basically greater predictive power. 422 00:24:33,129 --> 00:24:36,969 Mike: It's interesting because now I'm starting to understand a little bit more 423 00:24:36,969 --> 00:24:40,449 about how this fits in, because I think the next part of this report you're 424 00:24:40,449 --> 00:24:42,769 going to show is the overall score. 425 00:24:42,789 --> 00:24:43,969 And then you have subscales. 426 00:24:43,969 --> 00:24:48,269 And I guess those subscales are some of that predictive variance as well. 427 00:24:48,269 --> 00:24:48,999 Is that correct? 428 00:24:49,729 --> 00:24:51,029 Clinton: Yeah, and that is as well. 429 00:24:51,159 --> 00:24:52,609 So give me some of that predictive variance. 430 00:24:52,609 --> 00:24:55,769 And so we have, like you said, on the second page, we have this 431 00:24:55,789 --> 00:24:57,409 overall recommendation again. 432 00:24:57,789 --> 00:24:59,809 It was on the top of the first page. 433 00:24:59,809 --> 00:25:02,419 We're just going to visually show you the three options here. 434 00:25:02,729 --> 00:25:06,419 And it's highly recommended and you can see here, we give us, we 435 00:25:06,419 --> 00:25:07,869 tell you a little bit about this. 436 00:25:07,879 --> 00:25:09,789 It was keyed using actual employees. 437 00:25:09,789 --> 00:25:13,849 And so we want to let you know Hey, these individuals, this was, this is based on 438 00:25:13,859 --> 00:25:19,089 data from actual people working in these types of roles that we aren't just making 439 00:25:19,089 --> 00:25:22,239 this up and saying, Hey, we think these people are going to be more successful. 440 00:25:22,239 --> 00:25:23,789 This is what the data has shown us. 441 00:25:24,424 --> 00:25:28,154 Now, what we say here now, we introduce these subscales and we have these 442 00:25:28,154 --> 00:25:32,244 subscales and they can provide unique information that then could be useful for 443 00:25:32,444 --> 00:25:34,684 prodding in say, a selection interview. 444 00:25:34,964 --> 00:25:38,284 And so we have one of the subscores that we have is dependability. 445 00:25:38,634 --> 00:25:42,344 And so we give you some information on high scores, what that means for higher 446 00:25:42,344 --> 00:25:46,644 scores on dependability and what that may mean for a lower score on dependability. 447 00:25:46,994 --> 00:25:49,684 And then we give you some potential interview questions that you may want to 448 00:25:49,694 --> 00:25:52,074 follow up with in the interview process. 449 00:25:52,074 --> 00:25:52,124 Thanks. 450 00:25:52,669 --> 00:25:56,079 And like Mike had said, just because someone scores lower on one of these 451 00:25:56,089 --> 00:25:59,789 subscales, let's say I scored really you can see on this one, I'm like 452 00:25:59,789 --> 00:26:03,009 confident assertive, I'm right in the middle, on that 58 on the confident 453 00:26:03,009 --> 00:26:04,709 assertive subscale out of 100. 454 00:26:05,229 --> 00:26:08,669 And I've seen this before where someone says, Ooh, Clinton's only a 58 on 455 00:26:08,669 --> 00:26:10,029 the confident assertive subscale. 456 00:26:10,039 --> 00:26:10,599 I don't know. 457 00:26:10,609 --> 00:26:12,069 We, I don't think we should hire him. 458 00:26:12,819 --> 00:26:16,009 What we need to go back to is again, this overall recommendation 459 00:26:16,029 --> 00:26:17,659 should be the driving decision. 460 00:26:18,179 --> 00:26:21,149 Now, what you can do with this is because maybe I'm moderate on this. 461 00:26:21,149 --> 00:26:25,169 You could say, Hey, maybe you want to ask some confident sort of follow up questions 462 00:26:25,179 --> 00:26:28,549 that we provide here on this page is in as part of the interview questions. 463 00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:31,389 Hey Clinton, tell me about this, discuss this, tell me about a time. 464 00:26:31,844 --> 00:26:35,334 And follow up on those interview questions to see if there's maybe any 465 00:26:35,334 --> 00:26:39,154 sort of flags there or training needs or say, is this going to be a problem 466 00:26:39,234 --> 00:26:41,464 if we bring him in or follow up there? 467 00:26:43,684 --> 00:26:48,414 Mike: That kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier with the being 468 00:26:48,414 --> 00:26:50,754 aware of strengths and weaknesses, right? 469 00:26:51,034 --> 00:26:54,184 Or not perceiving a weakness as a strength. 470 00:26:54,484 --> 00:26:59,474 If a person, one example that we use in this dispatch space, one 471 00:26:59,474 --> 00:27:02,929 of our tests gives the ability to collect a voice sample. 472 00:27:04,319 --> 00:27:08,299 And if you collect a voice sample from someone, you've 473 00:27:08,299 --> 00:27:09,439 never talked to them before. 474 00:27:09,439 --> 00:27:11,019 They're just an applicant at that point. 475 00:27:11,439 --> 00:27:15,229 And you realize that they talk really softly, there's this, you 476 00:27:15,229 --> 00:27:19,199 want to jump out and you want to say listen, in this role, you need 477 00:27:19,209 --> 00:27:21,769 to be able to speak with authority. 478 00:27:21,959 --> 00:27:26,749 It isn't necessarily problematic that this person speaks really softly. 479 00:27:27,109 --> 00:27:31,919 What's what matters is, are they aware that their natural tendency is to speak 480 00:27:31,919 --> 00:27:36,639 softly, but they have the inherent ability to ramp it up when the time comes. 481 00:27:36,779 --> 00:27:39,909 And I think that's the same with some of these right here and some 482 00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:41,219 of these follow up questions. 483 00:27:41,274 --> 00:27:46,044 Clinton: Now, yeah, and I also like to point out too, often, so those follow 484 00:27:46,044 --> 00:27:49,994 up questions, are people aware of those weaknesses, but also, oftentimes, what 485 00:27:49,994 --> 00:27:54,664 I call our strengths, often become our weaknesses, and what I mean by that is, 486 00:27:54,664 --> 00:27:58,224 because we know it's a strength, so let's say I know I am assertive, and I'm high on 487 00:27:58,234 --> 00:28:01,044 assertiveness that's great, he's going to be really assertive on these phone calls. 488 00:28:01,474 --> 00:28:04,334 Oftentimes it can be than a crutch maybe become too assertive 489 00:28:04,334 --> 00:28:05,454 at times become dominant. 490 00:28:06,124 --> 00:28:09,194 And just because you have a strength also mean you have to be aware of 491 00:28:09,194 --> 00:28:12,544 your strengths, because strengths overused can become weaknesses. 492 00:28:12,924 --> 00:28:16,034 And just knowing these things, so you can also probe on some of these where 493 00:28:16,034 --> 00:28:18,644 they're high scores, because you say, hey, really good, he's really assertive, 494 00:28:18,694 --> 00:28:21,524 but you might want to say, hey, are there times maybe where he's overbearing? 495 00:28:21,924 --> 00:28:23,074 Mike: Overly assertive. 496 00:28:23,074 --> 00:28:23,604 How about that? 497 00:28:24,044 --> 00:28:24,554 That's right. 498 00:28:25,914 --> 00:28:26,254 Yeah. 499 00:28:26,554 --> 00:28:31,494 That's just another really important reason to dissuade somebody from 500 00:28:31,494 --> 00:28:35,304 looking at that number and making a decision, because it's not, it's 501 00:28:35,304 --> 00:28:41,714 a description of an aspect of their personality, but it isn't necessarily 502 00:28:41,714 --> 00:28:43,924 an indication of what you need to do. 503 00:28:43,924 --> 00:28:47,954 It's an indication that you should drill down a little more closely to 504 00:28:47,954 --> 00:28:50,194 be able to make that best decision. 505 00:28:50,244 --> 00:28:51,064 Clinton: Yes, yeah. 506 00:28:51,594 --> 00:28:56,374 And like I said, overall, if you are making a, a go, no go decision, let's 507 00:28:56,374 --> 00:29:00,144 just say you have you know, a hundred applicants and you can't afford, 508 00:29:00,154 --> 00:29:01,634 you just can't interview them all. 509 00:29:01,934 --> 00:29:05,244 And the driving decision there on who you're going to interview, again, 510 00:29:05,254 --> 00:29:10,064 focus on the overall recommendation score and not the subscores when 511 00:29:10,064 --> 00:29:13,344 it comes to say, Hey, we can only interview 20 of these individuals. 512 00:29:13,774 --> 00:29:17,214 Of these 100 let's focus on maybe then the overall recommendation 513 00:29:17,254 --> 00:29:21,474 and you drill down on the subscales in some great interview Yeah, 514 00:29:21,954 --> 00:29:22,794 Mike: that's a good point. 515 00:29:22,794 --> 00:29:26,034 So if you think about let's say you had 100 you drilled down to 20. 516 00:29:26,034 --> 00:29:28,984 You bring those 20 in that's a lot of people to interview. 517 00:29:29,284 --> 00:29:32,314 And if you're only hiring for three or four positions, you've got to 518 00:29:32,314 --> 00:29:33,934 make some really important decisions. 519 00:29:34,194 --> 00:29:36,494 So you need additional information. 520 00:29:36,854 --> 00:29:41,784 You know a lot of times in our case if you have a score, a data entry score, 521 00:29:41,784 --> 00:29:46,364 or some sort of test map reading you know, it's 97 percent and somebody's 96. 522 00:29:46,934 --> 00:29:49,179 There's not a big difference between somebody scoring 96 523 00:29:49,179 --> 00:29:51,674 or 97 on a map reading test. 524 00:29:51,674 --> 00:29:57,524 It's not enough to be able to make some sort of distinguishing decision between, 525 00:29:57,814 --> 00:30:02,104 person one and person two, really, these are the kinds of things that you want 526 00:30:02,114 --> 00:30:06,524 to use to determine of these 20, which are the people that we're going to move 527 00:30:06,534 --> 00:30:10,984 forward to, and whatever our next part of our recruitment is, even if it's hiring. 528 00:30:11,034 --> 00:30:12,504 Clinton: Yes, that's a great point, Mike. 529 00:30:12,524 --> 00:30:18,474 Often tests are not, they're not precise enough to make or, to draw 530 00:30:18,474 --> 00:30:20,414 conclusions from small point differences. 531 00:30:20,574 --> 00:30:23,074 It's like that example, 96 versus 97 on that map. 532 00:30:23,404 --> 00:30:27,284 Now, if someone's a 60 versus a 97, that's a large, far enough away where you can 533 00:30:27,284 --> 00:30:28,904 say, hey, someone struggled a little more. 534 00:30:28,904 --> 00:30:33,124 But when people 70 and this one's a 71. 535 00:30:33,844 --> 00:30:37,114 It's basically, statistically, they're the same. 536 00:30:37,744 --> 00:30:40,814 Mike: If you, if we want to sound really smart, we would say 537 00:30:40,814 --> 00:30:42,604 performance differentiating, right? 538 00:30:43,074 --> 00:30:43,484 Clinton: Yes. 539 00:30:44,604 --> 00:30:44,914 Yes. 540 00:30:46,164 --> 00:30:46,914 Mike: Very cool. 541 00:30:47,274 --> 00:30:49,854 Jenny, anything that you, you can think of that you want to 542 00:30:49,854 --> 00:30:51,574 talk about here in terms of, 543 00:30:51,834 --> 00:30:51,994 Jenny: Just 544 00:30:51,994 --> 00:30:52,534 a comment. 545 00:30:52,534 --> 00:30:56,224 As I look at this report and I just imagine myself in the one who's 546 00:30:56,224 --> 00:31:00,344 doing the hiring and needing to screen out and sit with candidates. 547 00:31:00,904 --> 00:31:02,554 What a great tool this is. 548 00:31:02,934 --> 00:31:05,294 What a time saver to be able to look at this report. 549 00:31:05,414 --> 00:31:07,334 I have questions that I can ask. 550 00:31:07,754 --> 00:31:11,904 And then the other thought I had was, I wonder if I might have a tendency 551 00:31:11,904 --> 00:31:13,644 to try to weight the sub scores. 552 00:31:13,694 --> 00:31:16,184 That one is more important than the other one. 553 00:31:16,184 --> 00:31:19,134 And so I could really, we've already talked about this, but I could just 554 00:31:19,134 --> 00:31:23,034 really see the tendency to, to think that one is more important than the other. 555 00:31:24,314 --> 00:31:24,634 Clinton: Yeah. 556 00:31:24,634 --> 00:31:24,814 Jenny: And 557 00:31:25,064 --> 00:31:26,404 Clinton: people, you have to fight that tendency. 558 00:31:27,329 --> 00:31:28,809 Mike: Yeah, and then go with the questions. 559 00:31:28,809 --> 00:31:30,679 The questions are going to give you the meat. 560 00:31:30,789 --> 00:31:33,449 That's really going to, that's really going to tell you what it is that 561 00:31:33,459 --> 00:31:37,149 you, what you wanted to uncover as you go through that process. 562 00:31:37,409 --> 00:31:40,569 Now, this test has been criterion validated. 563 00:31:41,009 --> 00:31:45,399 And why don't you talk a little bit -when something is criteria and validated that a 564 00:31:45,399 --> 00:31:49,549 lot of people call that the gold standard of validation, because it literally 565 00:31:49,549 --> 00:31:54,089 predicts some sort of job performance that's correlated with the test scores. 566 00:31:54,439 --> 00:31:58,689 But one of the things that's really advantageous about that is that the 567 00:31:58,689 --> 00:32:04,704 Uniform Guidelines does allow this criterion validation of which shoot you 568 00:32:04,704 --> 00:32:08,644 guys wrote a 280 page validation report. 569 00:32:08,644 --> 00:32:15,524 So our clients are able to adopt that validation report as their own, which 570 00:32:15,524 --> 00:32:20,594 will give them all of the defensibility aspects that come with that. 571 00:32:20,764 --> 00:32:24,719 They're able to adopt that to their own environment through a very 572 00:32:24,919 --> 00:32:29,609 simple process that actually takes only a couple of minutes for them 573 00:32:29,609 --> 00:32:31,489 to go and transport that over. 574 00:32:31,489 --> 00:32:32,919 Can you talk about that a little bit? 575 00:32:32,919 --> 00:32:35,709 I think that's very useful to our audience. 576 00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:37,319 Clinton: Yeah, sure. 577 00:32:37,849 --> 00:32:40,559 So most, organizations, they may say that's great. 578 00:32:40,579 --> 00:32:43,219 I would love to do this criterion validation study ourselves, but 579 00:32:43,219 --> 00:32:46,709 we only have five dispatchers, or 10 dispatchers, and that's not 580 00:32:46,709 --> 00:32:48,159 enough to really get the data. 581 00:32:48,589 --> 00:32:52,399 Good news is we did the heavy lifting for you, like Michael says, by having 582 00:32:52,399 --> 00:32:56,489 a multi jurisdictional criterion validation study where we had more 583 00:32:56,489 --> 00:33:00,809 than 300 individuals participate, and we showed the relationship between 584 00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:02,089 test scores and job performance. 585 00:33:02,139 --> 00:33:05,379 All you have to do under the Uniform Guidelines on employee selection 586 00:33:05,379 --> 00:33:11,069 procedures in section 7b There we have a simple process to say is your dispatching 587 00:33:11,069 --> 00:33:16,139 job substantially similar in terms of kind of the major work behaviors to where 588 00:33:16,139 --> 00:33:17,959 we did the original validation study. 589 00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:24,774 And we have a document for you where we have listed out the work behaviors, and 590 00:33:24,774 --> 00:33:28,694 you can see here, major work behaviors, and we have it both for the technical 591 00:33:28,794 --> 00:33:30,604 skills component of the CritiCall test. 592 00:33:30,604 --> 00:33:33,834 So like more of the map reading, audio comprehension, and also for the 593 00:33:33,844 --> 00:33:37,224 personality component, and you need just, all you have to do is have your employees, 594 00:33:37,244 --> 00:33:41,314 your subject matter experts, or your current dispatchers or supervisors of 595 00:33:41,314 --> 00:33:47,504 the position, indicate how similar those are to, to the job at your organization. 596 00:33:47,829 --> 00:33:51,569 And if there's substantial similarity, and this will auto calculate for you, 597 00:33:51,949 --> 00:33:55,819 we'll say, yes, you have enough here to be able to transport the validity. 598 00:33:56,179 --> 00:33:59,419 And so you don't have to do your own kind of criterion validation 599 00:33:59,419 --> 00:34:02,019 study with hundreds of people that you don't even have. 600 00:34:02,429 --> 00:34:03,289 And we've done that for you. 601 00:34:04,344 --> 00:34:09,154 Mike: Now, and this right here is actually from CritiCall, the hard skills test. 602 00:34:09,164 --> 00:34:14,274 So you can see these work behaviors are concrete work behaviors, 603 00:34:14,274 --> 00:34:17,424 reading, comprehending, computer use, data entry, et cetera. 604 00:34:17,844 --> 00:34:23,944 We also have a sheet for the personality test, which targets the work behaviors 605 00:34:24,284 --> 00:34:29,934 that you and Jason targeted in our test development validation study. 606 00:34:29,934 --> 00:34:34,584 So it would be softer skill work behaviors that pertain to the 607 00:34:34,584 --> 00:34:36,804 personality testing aspects of that. 608 00:34:37,134 --> 00:34:41,144 And it looks to me like basically you hit each organization's going to have 609 00:34:41,144 --> 00:34:45,004 a series of subject matter experts, and they're just going to agree or disagree 610 00:34:45,004 --> 00:34:50,364 that these major work behaviors are similar to those that are required in 611 00:34:50,364 --> 00:34:56,119 their environment and from what I've seen in using this transportability 612 00:34:56,119 --> 00:35:03,849 tool over many years with people, the universality of the dispatch environment 613 00:35:03,849 --> 00:35:06,419 is such that everybody goes through this. 614 00:35:06,419 --> 00:35:08,549 And yeah, of course, we have to be able to do this. 615 00:35:08,549 --> 00:35:09,789 And of course, we have to do this. 616 00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:15,049 It's a really high likelihood that the criterion validation that was established 617 00:35:15,059 --> 00:35:21,919 is going to translate or transport over to any other given organization, even if 618 00:35:21,919 --> 00:35:26,389 it's a very small rural organization, or if it's a very large urban organization. 619 00:35:26,389 --> 00:35:32,108 Clinton: That is one of the great things of this job is that it is, like you said, 620 00:35:32,108 --> 00:35:36,764 it is very specialized and that there's, it's very similar across organizations. 621 00:35:36,774 --> 00:35:40,114 Sometimes when I've done some tests, let's say for example, for software 622 00:35:40,134 --> 00:35:44,304 engineer, there, that can be, they can vary widely depending on organization 623 00:35:44,304 --> 00:35:47,934 size or what exactly they're coding or what software they're working with. 624 00:35:48,214 --> 00:35:51,244 And there's a lot of differences, but this dispatcher tends to be, like I said, tends 625 00:35:51,244 --> 00:35:54,924 to be pretty similar, and so that's a good thing is that we usually find people are 626 00:35:54,924 --> 00:35:58,144 saying, yeah, this is accurate and we do this and we can transport that validity. 627 00:35:58,924 --> 00:35:59,164 Mike: Yeah. 628 00:35:59,194 --> 00:35:59,664 Excellent. 629 00:36:00,454 --> 00:36:02,434 And then we can't see all this spreadsheet because there's 630 00:36:02,434 --> 00:36:03,774 just too much stuff on here. 631 00:36:04,084 --> 00:36:07,614 But essentially what happens is you go through and you just, you get in 632 00:36:07,614 --> 00:36:10,474 a room together with your subject matter experts and you say, okay, 633 00:36:10,514 --> 00:36:15,274 number one, one through five, five, meaning it's exactly like my job. 634 00:36:15,274 --> 00:36:16,804 And one, meaning it's not at all. 635 00:36:17,094 --> 00:36:19,164 And everybody shouts off their ratings. 636 00:36:19,164 --> 00:36:20,554 One person enters it into there. 637 00:36:20,554 --> 00:36:23,394 And at the very end of the process, there's a box there. 638 00:36:23,409 --> 00:36:25,999 The bottom that's red and it turns green. 639 00:36:25,999 --> 00:36:29,589 If it's right there, the green signifies that the work behavior behaviors 640 00:36:29,589 --> 00:36:31,029 are considered to be transportable. 641 00:36:31,229 --> 00:36:33,399 Thanks for slicing and dicing this, Jenny. 642 00:36:33,399 --> 00:36:34,409 I really appreciate that. 643 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,339 But it's as easy as that. 644 00:36:36,349 --> 00:36:38,649 Number one, number two, number three, number four, number five. 645 00:36:38,919 --> 00:36:41,799 And then when they get to the end, it turns green and 646 00:36:41,809 --> 00:36:43,339 you can print a copy of that. 647 00:36:43,639 --> 00:36:49,419 You can actually take our validation report that Clinton and Jason authored 648 00:36:49,749 --> 00:36:54,394 and you can attach your transparency portability report, easy for me to say, 649 00:36:54,714 --> 00:37:00,674 to that validation report, and you can then own that validation report for 650 00:37:00,674 --> 00:37:03,704 this position for your organization. 651 00:37:05,244 --> 00:37:11,834 And I would like to say that if someone was to call you up and do 652 00:37:12,044 --> 00:37:16,694 this boots on the ground from end to end at their particular center. 653 00:37:16,694 --> 00:37:18,864 If they were going to, if you were going to show up, you're going 654 00:37:18,864 --> 00:37:22,624 to do a job analysis, you were going to do a test development. 655 00:37:22,924 --> 00:37:25,304 You were going to do criterion validation. 656 00:37:25,694 --> 00:37:28,364 If you're going to do all this stuff on site. 657 00:37:28,404 --> 00:37:31,544 That would be a really expensive process, wouldn't it? 658 00:37:31,545 --> 00:37:31,957 Yeah. 659 00:37:31,957 --> 00:37:32,370 Clinton: Yeah. 660 00:37:32,370 --> 00:37:37,319 So it's at least just a conservative estimate, at least $30, 000. 661 00:37:39,399 --> 00:37:40,219 Mike: That's amazing. 662 00:37:40,489 --> 00:37:41,999 And we'll do it for half that, right? 663 00:37:41,999 --> 00:37:42,379 Clinton. 664 00:37:43,209 --> 00:37:43,589 Clinton: Yeah. 665 00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:43,919 Yeah. 666 00:37:43,919 --> 00:37:44,929 So just half, yeah. 667 00:37:44,930 --> 00:37:47,020 Mike: So that's quite an incredible savings. 668 00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:50,960 And then what, talk a little bit about the defensibility aspect of this. 669 00:37:50,990 --> 00:37:54,760 What we know, we didn't talk a lot about validity. 670 00:37:54,930 --> 00:37:58,570 We can, we're going to actually cover validity on a future podcast. 671 00:37:58,830 --> 00:38:01,940 We didn't really talk a lot about the development of the personality 672 00:38:01,940 --> 00:38:04,690 test in episode one of this 673 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:05,460 series. 674 00:38:05,620 --> 00:38:08,030 We talked a little bit more about it, if you're interested in it. 675 00:38:09,650 --> 00:38:13,260 When you go through this validation process for this kind of test or any 676 00:38:13,260 --> 00:38:17,970 other kind of test the way I describe it is that it's like a coin with two sides. 677 00:38:18,220 --> 00:38:24,770 And on one side is the utility and the utility speaks to how well does 678 00:38:24,770 --> 00:38:27,750 this selection instrument work to 679 00:38:28,250 --> 00:38:32,720 bring in the people that are going to be successful on the job in some way or shape 680 00:38:32,810 --> 00:38:36,970 or they're not going to steal from you or they're not going to quit immediately. 681 00:38:37,020 --> 00:38:40,860 They're not going to be disruptive or whatever your criteria is. 682 00:38:40,890 --> 00:38:44,270 Then on the other side of that same coin opposite the 683 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:45,920 utility side is defensibility. 684 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:51,595 And defensibility is speaking to what in a worst case scenario, if your 685 00:38:51,595 --> 00:38:57,545 selection process gets questioned by some human being with an attorney or some 686 00:38:57,555 --> 00:39:03,275 legal authority how well are you going to fare in that particular instance? 687 00:39:03,605 --> 00:39:08,525 So can you talk a little bit about all the work that we've done and how that 688 00:39:08,745 --> 00:39:14,225 benefits each organization in terms of the utility and defensibility aspects. 689 00:39:15,585 --> 00:39:18,385 Clinton: Yeah and that's a great way of putting those two sides of the coin. 690 00:39:18,385 --> 00:39:22,295 Mike, I always tell with clients, whenever we work with them on validating tests 691 00:39:22,295 --> 00:39:26,395 or implementing hiring tests is that the goals I always say are one A and one B is 692 00:39:26,445 --> 00:39:30,005 making sure you're hiring the best people for the job and then making sure you're 693 00:39:30,005 --> 00:39:31,995 doing so in a legally defensible way. 694 00:39:32,415 --> 00:39:34,545 And that's what you want to do is you want to have both of those. 695 00:39:34,545 --> 00:39:36,895 You should be able to have some legal protection. 696 00:39:37,415 --> 00:39:40,445 So if someone does challenge your hiring process or says, Hey, you didn't 697 00:39:40,455 --> 00:39:43,265 hire me because I am a white male. 698 00:39:43,540 --> 00:39:46,260 Or you didn't hire me because I don't know, some group I'm too old. 699 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,760 You didn't hire, we want to be able to defend it and say, no, we 700 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,590 didn't hire you because, you didn't have the right technical skills. 701 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:52,710 You couldn't do these things. 702 00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:55,070 You weren't, we showed through our validation efforts we know 703 00:39:55,070 --> 00:39:57,680 that lower scores on this test are less likely to succeed. 704 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,050 And so you were screened out because of that and not because of your age 705 00:40:01,060 --> 00:40:02,800 and not because of some other issue. 706 00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:04,610 And that's what we provide. 707 00:40:04,610 --> 00:40:06,250 And that's what they're the uniform. 708 00:40:06,250 --> 00:40:06,400 We didn't. 709 00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:09,910 I haven't gone into this too much, but the Uniform Guidelines on Employee 710 00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:12,030 Selection Procedures provide a playbook. 711 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,770 And when it comes to personality tests and criterion validation, Section 15B 712 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,330 of the Uniform Guidelines on Employee Selection Procedures provides like a list. 713 00:40:22,915 --> 00:40:28,495 A list of just of things that you need to cover when doing a validation study or 714 00:40:28,495 --> 00:40:34,205 that a test creator vendor should cover if they're developing a test Yeah in 715 00:40:34,205 --> 00:40:37,875 that report and the report that we have we actually at the very beginning of the 716 00:40:37,875 --> 00:40:43,265 report Have a list of all the requirements of Section 15B of the Uniform Guidelines, 717 00:40:43,335 --> 00:40:49,045 and we indicate which page or pages of the report cover those sections of Uniform 718 00:40:49,045 --> 00:40:52,335 Guidelines to show that we're addressing all of the requirements that we're 719 00:40:52,335 --> 00:40:54,235 doing our homework and you're covered. 720 00:40:54,525 --> 00:40:59,185 And so if someone does challenge the process, this is a nice report that then 721 00:40:59,185 --> 00:41:02,845 can be provided to lawyers and people who are going to get in those rooms and 722 00:41:02,845 --> 00:41:07,255 fight those battles to say, Hey, we've done our homework here and we're making 723 00:41:07,375 --> 00:41:11,355 decisions based on good information and not because we just don't like people 724 00:41:11,355 --> 00:41:12,805 from a certain protected group status. 725 00:41:13,505 --> 00:41:18,915 Mike: On the prior episode where we talked generically about personality 726 00:41:18,915 --> 00:41:25,975 testing, I used an example from this 9 1 1 police, fire, EMS space where, 727 00:41:26,085 --> 00:41:29,515 you know, being at the national conferences and having an opportunity 728 00:41:29,735 --> 00:41:34,720 to talk to center directors there's this universal understanding among them. 729 00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:39,170 If they've been around long enough, they can sit down with a human being, for 5 730 00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:42,600 or 10 minutes and talk to them and they can determine whether or not they're 731 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,270 going to be successful on the job. 732 00:41:44,730 --> 00:41:49,060 And I never, I never argue with these folks because I know that they're 733 00:41:49,060 --> 00:41:54,140 right about that, that they have that uncanny ability to be able to sort 734 00:41:54,140 --> 00:41:56,950 out who's going to be successful and who isn't going to be successful. 735 00:41:57,230 --> 00:42:02,530 We would never recommend that they use that as a strategy because 736 00:42:02,770 --> 00:42:05,015 it's fraught with pitfalls, right? 737 00:42:05,445 --> 00:42:11,135 The first one is that you don't have a paper trail that shows why you 738 00:42:11,145 --> 00:42:15,185 selected one person and you didn't select another person and that in 739 00:42:15,185 --> 00:42:16,925 itself can be quite problematic. 740 00:42:18,175 --> 00:42:25,235 And so really when we set out to create CritiCall, what we did without even 741 00:42:25,235 --> 00:42:32,065 really knowing is that we created it to be proxy for that center director who's 742 00:42:32,225 --> 00:42:37,565 able to spend time with an applicant and in a similar way, know whether or 743 00:42:37,565 --> 00:42:41,945 not they're going to be successful on the job, but to do so in a way where 744 00:42:41,945 --> 00:42:44,575 it's completely documented step by step. 745 00:42:44,765 --> 00:42:46,895 Here's the reasons why they should move forward. 746 00:42:47,055 --> 00:42:49,085 Here's the reasons why they shouldn't move forward. 747 00:42:49,625 --> 00:42:54,665 But furthermore to that, what we find, and I would say particularly in this 748 00:42:54,665 --> 00:43:01,315 social media environment or day and age, is that it's so important for 749 00:43:01,345 --> 00:43:08,135 organizations who are hiring to be good citizens, good stewards in their realm. 750 00:43:08,155 --> 00:43:14,680 And so what this critiCall test and even your personality test that's in 751 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:20,090 the CritiCall test does and does so well is it affords the applicant an 752 00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:25,530 opportunity to find out not only find out for the organization they're applying 753 00:43:25,530 --> 00:43:26,950 for, but find out for themselves. 754 00:43:27,170 --> 00:43:33,310 Am I suited for this job and to do so in a way that is really satisfactory. 755 00:43:33,490 --> 00:43:37,865 In fact, what we see with our testing is that if you're like me and you 756 00:43:37,865 --> 00:43:42,385 can't multitask, you hate the test so much that you pretty much get up 757 00:43:42,385 --> 00:43:43,845 and walk away, don't even finish it. 758 00:43:44,085 --> 00:43:47,385 And what you do is you walk away saying, Oh my gosh, I dodged a 759 00:43:47,385 --> 00:43:49,165 bullet because I would hate that job. 760 00:43:49,165 --> 00:43:53,045 I'm so glad I didn't, get that job so I could work Christmas and 761 00:43:53,045 --> 00:43:56,555 weekends and graveyards and all that stuff that I really also don't like. 762 00:43:56,955 --> 00:44:04,705 So these kinds of well constructed tests really serve both of those masters in 763 00:44:04,745 --> 00:44:11,335 such a way that it leaves the organization feeling very good about the process that 764 00:44:11,335 --> 00:44:16,725 they have in place, as well, it leaves the applicant feeling whether or not they 765 00:44:16,725 --> 00:44:22,695 got hired that they had a fair shake and even maybe more than some other jobs. 766 00:44:22,695 --> 00:44:28,005 If you're not suited for this environment, you really have no disagreement with that. 767 00:44:28,015 --> 00:44:30,285 So do you have any thoughts about that? 768 00:44:30,285 --> 00:44:31,705 Does that resonate with you at all? 769 00:44:33,335 --> 00:44:34,505 Clinton: Yeah, it does. 770 00:44:34,505 --> 00:44:36,775 And I think there's a, I always, a couple of thoughts. 771 00:44:36,825 --> 00:44:40,375 One is I think it's important, like you said, candidates will often self 772 00:44:40,375 --> 00:44:43,485 select out when you have good selection process that are face valid, that 773 00:44:43,485 --> 00:44:44,925 kind of look and feel like the job. 774 00:44:44,925 --> 00:44:48,665 And like you said it's not only our organization, should they be figuring out 775 00:44:48,695 --> 00:44:52,275 who's a good fit for the organization, you as a job applicant should be trying 776 00:44:52,275 --> 00:44:54,015 to figure out, is this a good fit for me? 777 00:44:54,555 --> 00:44:56,915 And that test, it also helps to allow for that. 778 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,020 My, my other thought was, it was like you talked about is we're 779 00:45:00,020 --> 00:45:03,730 providing what I call a standardized, a nice standardized process 780 00:45:04,210 --> 00:45:06,580 for organizations to make hiring decisions. 781 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,830 And while it's not often sexy, people aren't often saying, Ooh, look at 782 00:45:09,830 --> 00:45:12,920 that standardization you have in your process and, really admiring it. 783 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,040 That standardization is actually what helps and saves a lot of organizations 784 00:45:17,060 --> 00:45:20,940 and actually what can build in some of that predictive power, because oftentimes 785 00:45:20,940 --> 00:45:23,550 one of the problems, like you said, Mike, with those individuals who've been in the 786 00:45:23,570 --> 00:45:27,060 job for years and say they can recognize who's going to be the best performer, 787 00:45:27,495 --> 00:45:30,445 is sometimes problems occur when there's a lack of standardization. 788 00:45:30,455 --> 00:45:33,575 If they didn't use tools like this, they all of a sudden they're free 789 00:45:33,575 --> 00:45:36,445 flow and they go in one direction with one applicant, they don't go in that 790 00:45:36,445 --> 00:45:40,515 direction with another job applicant, that lack of standardization can then 791 00:45:40,515 --> 00:45:43,995 where problems can be introduced into the process and a candidate may complain 792 00:45:43,995 --> 00:45:47,225 and say, I didn't get a chance to show what I could do because they asked all 793 00:45:47,225 --> 00:45:50,135 this other candidate these questions that they didn't even ask me, okay. 794 00:45:50,430 --> 00:45:52,420 We're having a standardized process. 795 00:45:52,430 --> 00:45:56,100 We're giving all the candidates a fair playing ground to show their skills 796 00:45:56,110 --> 00:45:59,800 and their abilities and they're fit for this job in a standardized process. 797 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:01,780 There's a lot of value in that standardization. 798 00:46:02,810 --> 00:46:03,050 Mike: Yeah. 799 00:46:03,050 --> 00:46:06,240 And from the utility aspect as well, that's the defensibility 800 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:10,420 part, but the standardization gives you more utility in your selection 801 00:46:10,420 --> 00:46:12,660 process, which is equally important. 802 00:46:12,780 --> 00:46:16,240 The other side of that same coin that we talked about earlier. 803 00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:16,710 Excellent. 804 00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:17,330 That's great. 805 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:23,210 Do you Jenny, did you have anything else that you wanted to talk about before we 806 00:46:23,820 --> 00:46:23,910 end? 807 00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:24,880 Jenny: No, actually. 808 00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:27,620 Yeah, actually, sense we're winding down. 809 00:46:27,925 --> 00:46:31,005 This has been a, an amazing discussion, and I just want to just 810 00:46:31,005 --> 00:46:34,865 say that as somebody who's taken the personality test and the CritiCall 811 00:46:34,885 --> 00:46:39,265 test, it's just not my space to work. 812 00:46:39,265 --> 00:46:46,215 And I can tell you, I have self selected and I'm so grateful for those 813 00:46:46,215 --> 00:46:49,095 who can do such a high stress job. 814 00:46:49,095 --> 00:46:52,350 We definitely need you if you're watching this, we need you and thank 815 00:46:52,350 --> 00:46:53,630 you for the work that you're doing. 816 00:46:54,260 --> 00:46:58,600 So Clinton, as we wrap up, why don't you just briefly tell a couple of 817 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,460 sentences about ioPredict, who you are and how they can reach you. 818 00:47:03,330 --> 00:47:03,720 Clinton: Yeah. 819 00:47:03,980 --> 00:47:06,450 ioPredictict, we do test validation. 820 00:47:06,460 --> 00:47:10,610 So we can, we do test development from scratch, like custom test creation. 821 00:47:10,610 --> 00:47:14,700 And we work actually with Biddle and Mike, and we worked on this CritiCall 822 00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:16,710 test, personality test for dispatchers. 823 00:47:17,010 --> 00:47:19,070 And we partner on other projects as well. 824 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,570 ioPredict.com is our website. 825 00:47:21,650 --> 00:47:23,480 And on there, you can reach out to us through there. 826 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,440 But we also work with organizations when sometimes they've adopted a test 827 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,300 from another vendor where it's created, but they say, Hey, we don't know. 828 00:47:30,300 --> 00:47:31,650 Did they really put this together? 829 00:47:31,650 --> 00:47:35,650 And they reach out to us to do validation studies or to be that other source 830 00:47:35,650 --> 00:47:39,680 to, to review and to implement tests that maybe other people have created. 831 00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:40,670 So we do that as well. 832 00:47:41,830 --> 00:47:42,360 Jenny: Thank you. 833 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,730 And we'll have all of your contact info in the show notes for this episode. 834 00:47:47,070 --> 00:47:51,660 And if you haven't watched our first episode podcast episode with Clinton, 835 00:47:51,660 --> 00:47:54,890 I just want to encourage you to go back and check that out as well as we 836 00:47:54,890 --> 00:48:01,570 talk about personality testing more in general, CritiCall personality, not 837 00:48:01,570 --> 00:48:03,890 CritiCall personality testing specific. 838 00:48:03,950 --> 00:48:04,760 That was a mouthful. 839 00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:11,160 Hey, thank you so much Clinton for just not only for joining us 840 00:48:11,170 --> 00:48:15,210 for this episode, but also you joining us for a previous one. 841 00:48:15,740 --> 00:48:17,160 And thank you for our listeners. 842 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:18,070 Thank you for our viewers. 843 00:48:18,070 --> 00:48:18,290 Clinton: Thanks 844 00:48:18,290 --> 00:48:18,615 Jenny: for having me. 845 00:48:18,615 --> 00:48:19,025 Thanks for having me. 846 00:48:19,495 --> 00:48:20,715 Yeah, this has been fantastic. 847 00:48:20,715 --> 00:48:21,475 Thank you, Mike. 848 00:48:21,775 --> 00:48:22,365 Mike: Thank you. 849 00:48:22,475 --> 00:48:23,585 Thank you very much, Jenny. 850 00:48:23,595 --> 00:48:24,095 Great job. 851 00:48:24,095 --> 00:48:25,915 And thank you, Clinton, for joining us. 852 00:48:25,975 --> 00:48:29,635 ioPredict is a really important partner of ours. 853 00:48:29,655 --> 00:48:33,045 They, Clinton and Jason, who are the principal consultants there, 854 00:48:33,085 --> 00:48:34,815 worked for us for many years. 855 00:48:35,065 --> 00:48:38,485 They started up their own firm and we have, continued to work 856 00:48:38,485 --> 00:48:40,605 together very closely all along. 857 00:48:40,605 --> 00:48:44,545 And we actually really think of them as a branch of our company. 858 00:48:44,945 --> 00:48:48,325 And now that doesn't mean we'll be paying your taxes for you, but we 859 00:48:48,325 --> 00:48:50,645 certainly think of you in that regard. 860 00:48:50,645 --> 00:48:52,315 And we hold you guys in high esteem. 861 00:48:52,315 --> 00:48:55,245 So it's really great to have you here hanging out with us. 862 00:48:55,295 --> 00:48:55,735 Clinton: Thank you. 863 00:48:55,735 --> 00:48:57,035 Yeah, we feel the same way. 864 00:48:57,585 --> 00:48:58,015 Mike: Thank you. 865 00:48:58,575 --> 00:48:59,035 Jenny: Wonderful. 866 00:48:59,045 --> 00:48:59,815 Thank you everybody. 867 00:49:00,895 --> 00:49:01,605 Mike: Have a great day. 868 00:49:05,805 --> 00:49:09,085 Voiceover: Thanks for tuning in to Testing, Testing 1-2-3 brought to you by 869 00:49:09,105 --> 00:49:10,955 TestGenius and Biddle Consulting Group. 870 00:49:11,755 --> 00:49:14,735 Visit our website at testgenius.com for more information.