Branden Densmore: And just the anxiety and the,
pacing back and forth, not comfortable in my own skin.
Finally the guy shows up and I'm just so happy and
relieved that he's there.
And then he leaves
​ Rod Bland: Um,
My guest today is Brandon Densmore.
Thanks for coming on the show, Brandon.
It's great to have you here.
Branden Densmore: Yes, my pleasure.
Rod Bland: I definitely will want to get into your near
death experience for sure.
Cause I, I think it sounds fascinating to me, but I would
like to get an understanding of a little bit about your
background and what your life was like before that
occurred, just to give us some context for how you
ended up where you were.
Branden Densmore: Okay.
Let's see.
I had a pretty, pretty rough life, I guess you could say.
I was sexually molested when I was eight years old,
and that hurt quite a bit.
Affected my self-esteem, my, my self-image
confidence and created a lot of harsh feelings.
So anyways, that happened when I was eight and at
age 14 I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease, and
sacroiliac spondylitis.
So I was in
Rod Bland: Can you explain what they are?
Crohn's disease?
I've heard of them before, but I'm just not sure
what they are, and other people are watching,
might not know either.
Branden Densmore: Sure.
So Crohn's disease is arthritis of the intestine.
Rod Bland: Oh.
Branden Densmore: Is the easy way to explain it.
And then sacroiliac spondylitis is
arthritis of the spine.
Rod Bland: Right.
Branden Densmore: So obviously like it caused a lot of pain.
And I was put on opiate medications when I was 14
to help cope with the pain.
And ended up getting dependent on those medications.
Dropped out in the ninth grade from school.
. and,
Rod Bland: So you would have been around 14, 15
at that time as well.
Branden Densmore: Geez 15, 15 16,
Rod Bland: Okay.
Branden Densmore: around that age.
I hated school.
Like the whole, the pressure to fit in, to conform and
I was bullied horrendously.
I was raised in an alternate religion, so the practices
in that religion made me stand out as different.
So I guess maybe that made me an easy target, or
maybe it was my self-esteem issues from when I was
sexually molested that weren't resolved, that kind
of opened me up to attack.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Did you have many friends at school or any close
friends at school?
Branden Densmore: I made some friends, but I hung
out with the wrong crowd, I desperately wanted
acceptance, desperately wanted friends, people to like me
people to share my life with, and wasn't accepted by
the normal crowd cuz I was so different but ended up
hanging out with the wrong crowd, which kind of got me
into more trouble, but yeah.
Rod Bland: We got to the part where you're talking
about your time at school and I distracted you then,
but I can relate because I know what it feels like to be
someone who's seen as different.
I, where I grew up I grew up right in the middle of
the bush, in the middle of nowhere in Western Australia.
Not that that was unusual in the country.
But I was just an unusual kid I think smarter than
a lot of people were.
And the same just desperately wanted to be friends with
people and often accepted being treated in a way
that was, not great.
Just so that I could feel like I had people at
least a little bit close.
Branden Densmore: Yeah, it is tough.
So started hanging out with the wrong crowd.
I hated school.
Didn't really care for the teachers, felt I didn't
think I was gonna use the information I was learning
and rebelled against it.
Dropped out in the ninth grade and then worked
a couple dead end jobs.
Again, dependent on that medication and ended up
having my first NDE at age 21.
Rod Bland: Okay.
21.
Branden Densmore: Yep.
Rod Bland: Alright so this is between, so between 14 and 21.
So that was, you dropped outta school and you just
had a variety of jobs.
And then we've got our first NDE.
So yeah, tell us about that.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Had my first NDE at age 21, I was in a fistfight.
And the guy ended up being a third degree black belt, which
I didn't know at the time.
Rod Bland: Whoa,
Branden Densmore: So anyways, he, we were in a
fist fight and he kicked me in the head three times
with steel-toed boots on.
And I went to the doctor the next day and he said that
if there had been three more pounds of pressure behind
that final kick, that his boot would've gone into my brain.
So that NDE, what happened was it was just a total blackout.
Just complete absence of anything and everything.
Just total blackness.
Rod Bland: So you were still, you were conscious, but there
was no input rather than you being unconscious is that
Branden Densmore: what you mean?
Yeah.
And no time.
Like it was just nothing.
And it's hard to describe because how often do we
really experience nothing?
But there, there was an observer, right?
How else can we even describe nothingness if we're not
there to experience it?
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Yeah.
There has to be an observer.
That's what you meant.
Okay.
I thought for a moment you felt like there was a person,
something observing you, but you were the observer.
Branden Densmore: Yep.
Nothing.
But the thing that happened after that was that, I
had believed I was stupid.
Going back to like when I was sexually molested I had
developed self-confidence, self-esteem issues.
And then in school, I dropped out in the ninth grade.
I was made fun of by kids in school.
And somewhere along the line I adopted this
belief that I was stupid.
Like I wasn't gonna go anywhere in life.
I wasn't intelligent, I was no good, right?
So when I was in that fist fight, I started
asking questions like what am I passionate about?
Why am I even here?
And what ended up happening was I went back
to school to get a GED.
It's a general equivalent equivalency to like a
high school diploma.
Rod Bland: Ok got ya..
We call it our high school certificate.
Yep.
Branden Densmore: And when I went back, I discovered
that I had a passion, like a deep passion for learning.
Like I just, I loved learning new things and
just the thrill of it, the feeling of it, of
coming to a discovery, like I just loved that.
I went back, got my GED directly after this thing.
I started reading everything I could about self-development,
spirituality, that kind of thing.
Rod Bland: So did you read much while you were in school?
Or this is something that came, after you did your GED
you suddenly decided, okay, I'm gonna read as much as I
possibly can about everything.
Branden Densmore: Yeah, I just started, looking
into stuff listening to audio books and it just,
every book that I would listen to and every book
that I would read, it was like, I wanted more and
wow, I really enjoy this.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
It opens up a world, doesn't it?
Branden Densmore: It does.
Rod Bland: I can relate around 19, 20.
It's once you start reading books about self-development,
because you don't normally get taught this at school.
It's not part of this any school curriculum
that I'm aware of.
Branden Densmore: Yeah, that's
Rod Bland: yeah, it suddenly you realize there's a lot
more to life than what you realize that there was
and you just want more.
Branden Densmore: You Yeah, I believed I was stupid and
and went back, got my GED then went to and enrolled
in a community college and
Rod Bland: So this was, how long did it take
you to do your g e d?
Was that A couple of years to do that.
Branden Densmore: oh, it was a few months really,
I think maybe six months,
Rod Bland: Yep.
Yep.
Branden Densmore: I needed to go back and study up on
all the material geometry, algebra, all that good stuff.
Went back.
Did that enrolled into a two year college, finished
that and then wanted more.
So I ended up applying to this summer program
called Exploring Transfer.
So it's a program that the community colleges here in
the States, they have this program called Exploring
Transfer, and they'll take a community college student and
send them to Vasser College.
So that's Yale's sister school,
Rod Bland: Yep I've heard of that.
And I don't live there.
Yep.
Branden Densmore: yes.
Yeah, it's quite famous.
And ended up going there for a summer, six weeks
and took two full courses over a six week period
and then got a 4.0, a perfect grade point average
an A in both classes.
Rod Bland: Okay.
Branden Densmore: Not bad for a high school
dropout who's stupid.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Must have spurred you on.
Branden Densmore: it did.
And so I got this, got a 4.0 and then applied to Vassar to
become a full-time student.
It was my second choice next to Harvard, but Harvard
wouldn't accept my application because I had a GED.
They require a high school diploma.
Rod Bland: Wow.
Okay.
Branden Densmore: So went to Vassar for four years
and got a bachelor's degree in philosophy.
And but what people didn't know is that this
whole time I was still dependent on these opiates.
Rod Bland: Was it the dependency, did you still
have pain to deal with the the Crohn's disease, et cetera?
Is that the reason why?
Branden Densmore: Yeah, on and off it would come and go.
I would have a flare and then be in really bad
pain, but also, I was taking this medication
to cope with my feelings
because I still had, after that first near-death
experience and over this time period of this educational
journey, I still had these self-esteem issues
Rod Bland: yeah.
Branden Densmore: going back to childhood.
But I would
Rod Bland: that a
Branden Densmore: these opiates and it would dull
those, the inner dialogue telling myself that I'm
no good stuff like that.
Rod Bland: So it wasn't just about the physical pain,
it was gave you some relief from that emotional turmoil
that you're putting yourself through whenever you start
getting down on yourself.
It just gave you relief from that.
Branden Densmore: Exactly made me feel like I could
concentrate on my work.
Like I could deal better in social situations,
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: Made me feel calm, made me feel good,
Rod Bland: So it sounds like you were you, despite
being addicted, uh, you were high functioning
at that point in time.
Branden Densmore: I was, yeah.
Had to be, there Vasser wasn't easy.
I had to read a stack of books like this,
write paper after paper.
The whole time that I was on this educational
journey, no one really knew.
I hid it pretty well that I was dependent
on these opiates.
Rod Bland: Not even close friends or family knew.
Branden Densmore: Family knew but there wasn't much
they could do about it.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Did they try to intervene?
Branden Densmore: They tried to, but there wasn't much
they could do about it, I had a legitimate reason
Rod Bland: yeah.
Branden Densmore: I could just go to a doctor and they
would write a prescription.
It was tough.
And
I would take too much of the medication, more
than prescribed, and then I would run out,
And it was just a vicious cycle of, Up and down.
I'd run out of this medication.
My anxiety would just go through the roof and the
thoughts would come back.
Rod Bland: So you finish your course at Vasser.
The addiction is an issue, but you felt like you had
a handle on it at the time.
There was starting to be these sort of bad periods
and not so bad periods that were starting.
The gap was starting to widen because you're running
out of your prescription medication and I imagine
that you are putting pressure on your caregivers
to get more and they're not letting that happen.
So that creates stress and, yeah.
So what came next?
Branden Densmore: Yeah, exactly.
And then after graduating from Vasser, I am back in Maine,
which is where I live, and I'm in my mom's apartment
and I've used too much of my medication and I've been in
withdrawals for three days.
Rod Bland: Oh, I hear that's a seriously painful thing.
Branden Densmore: It's like living hell basically.
My inner dialogue was so negative and all of the
problems of my life were just shouting at the top
of their lungs in my mind.
The anxiety, like I said, is, was just through the roof.
Like it's, and I'm in my mom's apartment.
I'm waiting for this, for the guy to show up.
At Vassar, by the way, I didn't mention this, but I
was introduced to heroin.
Rod Bland: Okay.
As an alternative when you couldn't get your
prescription medication.
Branden Densmore: Exactly.
I was at a party one night in withdrawals cause I had
run out of the medication
and they were do just doing this stuff.
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: I decided, hey, I'll try it.
So I knew about it and
Rod Bland: So
Branden Densmore: came back home,
Rod Bland: to you're taking more risks at that point cuz
you, I guess you, you knew that there's a chance that
what you're actually about to take isn't what you think it
is because of the fact that it's, the source is not from
a pharmaceutical company.
I guess that was in the back of your mind?
Or is it just a case of, okay, I need to do
something about this now?
Branden Densmore: yeah, it wasn't really in my mind.
Rod Bland: Yeah
Branden Densmore: it was more almost I've read
about it now and it's the survival mechanism
Rod Bland: yeah.
Branden Densmore: like you with this.
Addiction or dependency, whatever you want to call it.
It's like it hits the limbic system.
So it's like your brain thinks that you need
this thing like oxygen,
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: I need this to survive.
I can't continue without this thing.
It's pretty bad.
It's pretty powerful.
So I'm in my mom's apartment, I'm in withdrawals.
I've been in withdrawals for three days and I'm
waiting for my guy to show up, to bring me some stuff
so I don't have to be suffering like that anymore.
Rod Bland: Yep,
Branden Densmore: And I'm checking the clock, is
this guy ever gonna come?
And just the anxiety and the, pacing back and forth, not
comfortable in my own skin.
Finally the guy shows up and I'm just so happy and
relieved that he's there.
And then he leaves and I do some of the stuff.
And finally the nightmare's over.
Finally my mind just calms down and it's just
Rod Bland: got relief.
Branden Densmore: a sigh of relief and it feels good.
And all of the negative thoughts just dissipate.
Like smoke, just like steam coming, rolling off
a warm lake just gone.
And then I feel good and then all of a sudden I
realize that I'm dying.
So I ended up overdosing
Rod Bland: When you say you realized that you were
dying, what was happening?
If something was happening physically at that point?
Branden Densmore: yeah, I was like lying on the couch
in my mom's apartment.
And My breathing started to get real slow and then
everything started really quieting quieting down.
It was like I was just sinking and then my
breathing was slow and I'm like, this isn't right.
And then I'm out of my body, like standing next to myself.
Rod Bland: so standing like in the apartment,
looking at your body, laying on the couch.
Branden Densmore: Yep.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Yep.
Branden Densmore: Standing right there looking at
myself, laying on the couch.
And then I was contemplating.
And oddly enough, I didn't find it strange.
It wasn't weird.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
You weren't anxious or anything like that, you
thought, oh, I'm just, I'm here looking at myself.
Did you think to yourself, oh I've just died.
That's why I'm here?
Or is it prep?
Yeah.
Branden Densmore: Yep.
I somehow realized that I had died and the weird
thing it was, is that it wasn't strange, which I
don't know why it wouldn't be cuz you would think
that it would be weird.
Rod Bland: So it felt, when you say it wasn't
strange, like it just felt you felt comfortable.
Branden Densmore: Felt comfortable.
Yep.
Felt comfortable.
It wasn't like odd, like an unusual event.
For some reason that kind of thinking
never crossed my mind.
Was just standing there looking at my dead body
and contemplating the meaning of my life.
Rod Bland: As you would when you just, when
this just occurred,
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Rod Bland: What was going through your mind
as you were contemplating the many of your life?
Branden Densmore: oh, I was like, What was the point?
What was the point of it all?
I was raised in an alternative religion, you
know, sexually molested when I was eight years old.
Made fun of when I was a kid, dropped outta school,
went back to school, went on this amazing educational
journey, discovered a passion for learning, overcame the
belief that I was stupid, but what was the point of it all?
That's what I
Rod Bland: You were kicking some goals at this point,
and now it was like it was almost all for nothing.
Branden Densmore: Exactly.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: And I was baffled, wasn't there
something supposed to be something more to life?
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: And then,
Rod Bland: there looking at the couch contemplating.
The worth of your life.
And what happened next?
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
And I became aware of a presence.
There was a presence in the room,
I didn't feel uncomfortable.
But it wasn't like I had some kind of like
profound peace or anything.
It was just, I was standing there contemplating the
meaning of my life, and was baffled and confused
and didn't see the point.
And all of a sudden I just, I sense that something's
in the room with me.
You, you know how like sometimes you can feel
somebody watching you,
Rod Bland: Yeah,
Branden Densmore: like you just feel the eyes
like watching you even if you don't see somebody.
But anyways, that's what it felt like.
I looked around.
There was nothing there, but I definitely felt the presence.
And that's when I entered what you might call a holodeck.
I like to think of it as a holodeck.
Rod Bland: so the apartment disappeared.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
It disappeared.
And I was shown
Rod Bland: So it was just like a, just a quick there.
Was there one second in, in the holodeck?
The
next, yeah.
Branden Densmore: just boom gone.
I was shown two things, like I was shown a future reality.
Where I didn't exist.
So you could think of it as, was I shown the future?
I don't know.
It might have been.
Or was it a simulation
A possible future?
I don't know.
Because this brings up questions of causality
and, do we have free will and all this stuff.
Those are some deep questions, but I was shown a future
reality where I didn't exist.
So you could say I was shown the future.
So I was shown all the people that I would never
meet, the experiences I would never have.
The woman that I would never marry,
and it was like I would see a, like me, like a movie,
watching a movie of myself
Having all of these experiences.
But it was like after each one it's like, okay that's
never, that will never happen.
Rod Bland: Right.
Branden Densmore: Now shown another one that
will never happen, shown another one that will never
happen, shown another one that will never happen
over and over and over and over again.
And then the other thing I was shown was all of
the people that were affected by my death.
All of the friends in the family and
the memorial service.
Rod Bland: That's heavy.
Branden Densmore: It is.
And the one that really stands out from that part was that
my mother coming into her apartment and discovering
my dead body on her couch,
and there was like puss running outta my mouth.
And I remember her saying, my baby, my baby, no God no.
Screaming, screaming.
And that's when it, that's when it really hit me.
And it was like a kick in the stomach.
And I started begging.
Send me back.
I'll do whatever I have to do to overcome this addiction.
Whatever's required of me, I will do it.
Rod Bland: So there was a steely resolve at that point.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Because I couldn't let my mother experience that pain
of finding her baby dead.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
It almost seems like that, that people often have
a, an experience that's for them when they have
a near death experience.
And that was the one that was tailored for you to
make the biggest impact by the sounds of it.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
And I've told this story a few times and sometimes
in the comments people talk about how could God,
I don't know if this was God, this present.
But the okay, I left a part out, so I heard a voice.
So after seeing my mother finding my dead body, I
heard a voice and it was a very matter of fact voice.
It wasn't a whisper, it wasn't a loud, booming
thunderous voice.
It was just a very matter of fact voice that
said, now your life is over and you wasted it.
Rod Bland: Whoa.
Branden Densmore: That was really what finished me off.
That was just like, I had already been kicked in the
stomach with seeing my mother
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: and then shown the future
that never would happen.
And then now your life is over and you wasted it.
So I begged, send me back.
I'll do anything that's required.
But people say in the comments when I tell
this story, how could God say something like that?
Or why would God say something like that?
And I don't know if this presence was God, Jesus
Buddha, who it was, it never identified itself.
But how could a divine being of this kind say
something like that?
Now your life is over and you wasted it.
So I get comments talking about that point and oh,
it was your higher self.
I don't know what it was, but it, like you said, Rod,
it's like these experiences are tailored to what
we need in that moment.
I believe that I needed to hear that.
Rod Bland: You've constructed your life up to that
point around an addiction.
And then from the outside, you looked like you had it
all together, but at some point it was gonna end,
gonna come to an end badly.
And you really needed a message that was gonna
get through to you.
Anyway, sounds like it did.
So what happened next?
Branden Densmore: it definitely did.
And I wanna say that it was the love that really got me
to the point where I was like,
I will do anything to
Rod Bland: So you felt,
Branden Densmore: this
Rod Bland: is you felt this love from the presence or the
voice is that what you mean?
Branden Densmore: No, it was the love of my mother,
Rod Bland: Ah,
Branden Densmore: the appreciation for her
raising me, the love that she showed me.
And here I was doing this heroin and I died
and she found my body.
That the love and the respect that I had
spurred on the change.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: Willingness to do whatever it takes.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
You had to honor that.
couldn't not honor that at that
point.
Mm-hmm.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
So anyways, after that experience, right after
that I called Crisis.
Rod Bland: So back up a little bit.
So you said, okay, I want to go back and I guess
you did and you bump back in your body and your
Branden Densmore: do whatever it takes, send me back.
Please, God.
Just send me back.
I want to live.
I'll do whatever it takes to not make this happen.
And all of a sudden, boom, I'm back in my body.
Gasping for breath.
Rod Bland: Do you have any idea for how long that was?
Branden Densmore: No.
But after the experience, I called Crisis and went
into a seven day detox where I had to learn how
to tie my shoelaces again
Rod Bland: man?
Branden Densmore: cuz the drug was not in my system.
And that's how dependent I was on this medication.
I think I was 32 when this happened, and I'm 40 now.
But I had been on this opiate medication since age 15,
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Yeah.
So getting on 16, 17 years.
Branden Densmore: so it was, my brain was just totally
wrapped up in this thing.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
So your brain's ability to produce those same chemicals,
dopamine, et cetera, was, pretty much nonexistent.
So you, oh I can't even begin to imagine what that must have
been like to go, okay, we're just cold Turkey and h how
do you, how did they treat you for that how did that
occur that seven day period?
Branden Densmore: They they gave me some some medication,
for an anti-inflammatory a sleeping pill.
And I remember, I'm not a doctor, so this
is not medical advice,
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: I do talk about it.
They offered me a medication called suboxone.
They call it an opiate replacement therapy.
And from what I understand, this helps a lot of people.
A lot of people who are addicted to heroin and
other opiate substances, they prescribe this to them
so that they can get off these other street drugs
and other pharmaceuticals.
But anyways I was in the midst of the worst
part of the withdrawal and the psychiatrist
offered me Suboxone.
And I said, I knew what it was.
It's actually an opiate.
An opioid.
It's a synthetic.
But anyways I said, no.
He
Rod Bland: That must have been hard.
Branden Densmore: that.
It was a debate in my mind, do I take it?
Do I not take it?
Do I take it?
Do I not take it?
And I said, no, cuz I, I wanted it to be free.
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: And didn't wanna feed the dependency
or become dependent on this opiate replacement therapy.
He said, you need to reconsider Brandon.
You need to reconsider that.
Rod Bland: He didn't want you to fail based on the odds
that he'd seen for people that had not taken the alternative.
Yeah,
Branden Densmore: Yes, exactly.
Rod.
He didn't want me to fall into the statistic, so he
said, you need to reconsider.
Do you realize that I think he said 95%.
It might have been a higher percentage, but 95% of
people in your situation will go back to the substance.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
So you're really against the odds.
Branden Densmore: And I said, I guess I'm one of the 5%.
No,
Rod Bland: were confident at that point there.
There was a moment, but you were really confident
you were just gonna have to do it that way,
whatever it was gonna take.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Yeah.
And it goes back to like when I was pleading on the other
side to live, send me back, I'll do whatever it takes.
Like I couldn't accept the drug because I knew
where it was gonna lead.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: that's for me, like I'm not telling
other people that's right for them necessarily,
although it may be.
But that would be something to seriously consider.
Cuz I know people who are dependent on these opiate
replacement therapies.
And I'm glad from my personal life, my personal experience,
my personal life that I said no, cuz I'm now I'm free.
Rod Bland: So it was just you were in rehab for that seven
day period and then they kind of let you loose after that.
What happened after that?
Branden Densmore: Yeah, they cut me loose after that.
And then I went to an intensive outpatient
program that's
something that you just go to weekly as part of a group
talking about addiction and how to recover and
different things like that.
I learned some good stuff there, but where I
really got some relief.
Because after coming off this medication, I was still
full of like resentment to people in the past, including
the guy who molested me,
Rod Bland: So the physical withdrawal was one thing,
the mental side of things was something else.
Yeah.
Branden Densmore: yeah.
And almost worse, really the mental emotional piece
was worse than the physical.
And even after, the drug was gone out of my system,
that emotional, mental aspect was just raw.
Full of resentments from the kids at school, from the guy
who molested me toward the religion that I was raised in.
All of these different aspects of resentment
and fear and negative thinking about myself, am
I good enough comparing myself to other people?
All this stuff.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
You had plenty of reasons to be bitter at the world.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Yeah,
Rod Bland: of good reasons.
Yeah.
Branden Densmore: Bitter and afraid.
Rod Bland: But you knew that was getting in the
way of you being, fulfilled in your life and you had
to do something about it.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
At that point I was not happy.
Like I was miserable and I knew that I needed to find
a way to deal with this,
cuz if I didn't, I was gonna probably end up going back out
and using the substance again.
I had a gaping void in my life and I needed to find a way to
fill it and to deal with all of these emotions and inner
turmoil that was going on.
And that's when I started going to Alcoholics
Anonymous meetings.
Rod Bland: Okay.
Branden Densmore: My drug of choice wasn't really
alcohol, but I lied.
I, and I said that I had an alcohol problem
Rod Bland: Did you have an idea
That, did you learn about the framework?
That's like with the 12 steps you thought That's what I need
and so I need to get in there?
Branden Densmore: No I started going and what happened
was, I needed a support group, people to talk to.
That's why I originally went.
And I knew that I had all these emotional problems
and self-esteem issues, et cetera, and I needed
people to talk to about it.
So anyways, I started going to these meetings.
And I saw that, wow, there are people here with incredible
substance abuse stories with alcohol, and they're laughing.
They're happy.
They've made friends, they're talking with each
other, they're laid back, they're comfortable.
So that's when I realized, okay, there's
something going on here.
It was evidence to me that there was a solution to the
inner turmoil and stuff that I had going on the inside.
Rod Bland: Yeah, this kind of clicked.
Branden Densmore: It clicked and I had found
a sponsor and then worked through the 12 steps.
So it was a gradual process.
But let's see.
So when I had that overdose experience I had no friends,
false friends, people who were there just to take
advantage of me in my life.
I went from no friends no money in the bank,
brokenhearted, no self-confidence, full
of resentment, fear
Rod Bland: pretty crappy life at that point.
Branden Densmore: yeah, I was low down, like low
in life and no vehicle.
To now I'm married to a wonderful, beautiful woman.
I had a son.
Who's eight months old, who I love dearly.
I have money in the bank.
I started a business.
I bought a car, I bought a house.
I have a beautiful garden.
I'm full of confidence, self-esteem.
I love my life.
I have real friends, and I'm living the kind of a
reality that I was shown.
Now, whether or not that was that future reality where I
didn't exist was the actual future, or not, I can't say,
Rod Bland: Yeah,
Branden Densmore: but I'm living.
Living like I feel like I was supposed to live, the
life that God intended.
Rod Bland: sorry, Brandon, to interrupt you.
What strikes me is that there's this resolve about
you and this there's some confidence that I can't
quite put my finger on,
but it's almost because you had those previous experiences
that the person that you are now has so much more
vigor and it's almost like a ruthlessness for life, and
it just comes out of you.
You think that is, is that how you feel?
Branden Densmore: That's an awesome way of describing it.
Like a ruthlessness for life.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
It
Rod Bland: Like you're not gonna waste another second.
Branden Densmore: Exactly, yeah.
When I was talking with my sponsor and going through the
12 steps there was a point where, I didn't want to be
in any other relationship.
Like a romantic relationship
because I had so many failed romantic
relationships from the past and a lot of resentment
toward ex-girlfriends.
And I told my sponsor, I don't want to get into
another relationship cuz I'm afraid of being hurt.
He said, that's no way to live.
You, you don't want to be in a romantic relationship because
you're afraid of being hurt.
That's no way to live.
Rod Bland: That's a bit of tough love
right there, isn't it?
Branden Densmore: it is like it to, you need to be willing
to be hurt, to open up your heart, be willing to be hurt,
to experience the fullness of life
instead of living afraid and trying to protect, to live
in a little box and protect myself from the world.
But to have the fullness the full experience of
what life has to offer.
Rod Bland: So how did you, I dunno whether overcome is
the right word, but there's the bitterness and the
resentments for people that have wronged you in your life.
And like I said, you had plenty of reasons to do that.
How did you get to the point where you go, okay,
did you just realize that was poisoning your life
and you had to let them go?
Is that what you got to?
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
I realized that that these underlying things were
really the cause, the root of the addiction.
Because I would take these medications in order
to numb the feelings.
And to obliterate the thinking that was happening in my mind
around some of these issues.
So I needed to, I needed a solution to addiction,
a solution where I no longer had to have this as a problem
where I could move on with my life and live a full
life experiencing everything that life had to offer.
But my life was on the line too.
For me, it was a matter of life and death.
So I desperately needed a solution.
I found the right sponsor, someone who really knew their
stuff, someone who really knew the material and the method
from Alcoholics Anonymous, which I mean, alcoholics
Anonymous, it saved my life.
Not to say that this organization doesn't
have its problems.
Not to say that the philosophy doesn't have issues of
Alcoholics Anonymous, but it did save my life cuz it
gave me that, it gave me what I needed in the moment
and it gave me a process that I could use to really
face these inner demons that were driving the addiction.
Rod Bland: So how did you actually integrate
some of those, those terrible experiences?
I'm sure there's something where people are wondering,
who have been through a similar experience to go I
can't possibly forgive that person for what they did.
How did you manage to integrate that into your life
where you got to the point where it's not something
that's a problem for you?
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
So I was coaching somebody about this the other day.
And forgiveness doesn't mean that you're opening
yourself up to being abused.
Like this idea of turn the other cheek so that the,
when Jesus said that, it was like you get slapped and then
you turn the other cheek and it's a, like biblical saying.
So in other words, slap me again.
But that's not what forgiveness is.
So if, yeah, if you're being abused, you don't
wanna allow yourself to continue to be abused, right?
Oh I'm in an abusive relationship and I'm
gonna forgive the person that's abusing me.
And it just allow them to continue abusing you.
That's not forgiveness.
So first you have to be ready and willing and open.
I had to practice forgiveness because my life was on the
line and I couldn't allow myself to die and my mother
to find that dead body.
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: I had, I was motivated.
I was motivated.
So I would say the first thing, you
need to be motivated,
but I had turned into an angry person and I didn't
want to live that way anymore.
On another show, I was talking with someone and he's, we
were talking about road rage.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: So someone would cut me off in traffic
and I'd get ripped oh, that, what is this guy thinking?
Uh, Da.
Flip them the finger.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
That was your standard operating procedure.
Branden Densmore: right?
But anger had become a lifestyle just irritated
at little annoyances.
But what I didn't realize is that I had become an
angry person, and that was a lifestyle and that the anger
was coming out sideways.
It was being expressed toward these little annoyances,
but those little annoyances weren't really the problem.
Because I had anger inside of me at a really
fundamental level.
Being sexually molested at eight years old is
enough to make you angry.
But it was coming out in my life in ways that I
didn't realize the root cause and that I had become
an angry kind of person.
What I'm trying to illustrate is the
importance of forgiveness,
Because if we hold onto this kind of anger,
we've become angry people
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: and it comes out in unexpected ways.
Rod Bland: Yeah, so it's more, it's for you, the
forgiveness is for you so that you don't have to be angry.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Rod Bland: Yeah,
Branden Densmore: And I think it, it even
goes beyond that too.
Like it's for you so that you can live a better life
Rod Bland: yeah.
Branden Densmore: so that you can have better
emotions or more enjoyable,
Rod Bland: Better quality.
Branden Densmore: worse, maybe that's the wrong
way to describe it, but a more enjoyable experience.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
This is it's not anywhere at the same level, but
it's a conversation.
I can remember having this with my wife a while ago,
and talking about previous partners and wrongs, that have
been done, and she couldn't quite understand at the
time why I wasn't angrier.
And I had to think about it and thought I just
don't like carrying around that vibration.
You can't be angry at someone and not be angry, it's like
you carry that with you.
I don't want that to be in my life.
I don't want that to be part of my interactions with you.
I don't want us to be part of my interactions with my kids.
That's why I'm not angry.
It's not because I approve of what has been done,
it's just I don't wanna be that kind of person.
There's gotta be another way to deal with it.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Say that last sentence again.
You said that you didn't want it to affect your children.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
I didn't want that vibration.
Emotions are like vibrations, right?
Everything's got energy.
So I think if I'm gonna be angry about something, then
that's gonna impact not just, I'm not just directing anger
at one particular person.
It's part of my being, right?
So it's gonna impact my children, it's gonna impact my
other relationships as well.
Do I want that?
Branden Densmore: and it's tough too, Rod, cuz like we're
not taught how to forgive.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: And when you have like significant
traumatic experiences, it makes it even more difficult.
So we're not only not taught how to forgive or
what forgiveness even is.
When it's a traumatic incidence, that makes even
the method more difficult, like even harder to let go,
Rod Bland: Yep.
Yep.
Branden Densmore: and then it becomes
internalized.
Rod Bland: the Olympic system.
It's like that base, that very lizard part of your brain, and
there's really no reasoning or logic that you can apply
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Rod Bland: those deep emotions.
Yeah.
Branden Densmore: But you have to be ready to let it go.
And it doesn't mean that you're condoning whatever
it is, the kind of actions that have happened
Doesn't mean you're condoning it.
But it can be a tough pill to swallow.
When I was, so I was sexually molested at eight years
old, and when I confronted that particular resentment,
Toward this person.
I had a conversation with my sponsor and it was step
four and five in Alcoholics Anonymous, and I had already
gone through the previous steps and I said a prayer.
But so I talked with my sponsor and oh man, I have
a lot of different thoughts coming that I want to express.
Rod Bland: go
Branden Densmore: One thing I forgot to mention, you
were talking about how forgiveness is for yourself
and it is, that's true.
But it's also for the world
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: you changed, like you said, your vibration,
which has a ripple effect.
So when you're no longer, an angry person,
Rod Bland: that's what the world needs.
Branden Densmore: But, so let's where was
I going before that?
I made that point?
Cause I really just, I wanted to say that.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Yeah.
You were just talking about forgiveness.
You're having the conversation with your
sponsor, steps four and five.
Branden Densmore: Yes.
So thank you.
was having a conversation with my sponsor and I told
him about the sexual abuse and he said, okay, so
first of all, I'm really sorry that happened to you.
I said, okay, thank you.
And he said, that should never happen to a child.
And that's a really, you know, terrible
thing to have to endure.
Okay, thank you for recognizing that.
And then he said, but you've been holding onto this.
You're an adult now.
And you've been holding onto this for 20 years.
I said, yeah, I've been holding onto it for 20
years and never resolved it.
And he said did you ever consider that maybe he had
been sexually molested?
And I said, no, I never thought about that.
He said usually when a kid sexually molests another kid.
So this guy that sexually molested me, I
believe he was 15, 16,
And I was eight.
He said, he must have learned that from somewhere.
Most people learned that kind of behavior from somewhere.
And I said I never thought about that.
Here I was, addicted to, to opiate medications.
I had died cuz I was full of being driven by resentment,
fear, anger, et cetera.
Low self-esteem, inner chatter.
I was being driven by that and the addiction
was being fueled by that.
And I had died and it had been 20 years since this incident
happened and I had never once considered that maybe he
had been sexually molested.
Not once in 20 years.
Okay.
Yeah, no, I've never considered that.
Okay.
He said, don't you think that's a little self-centered?
Rod Bland: Ooh.
Branden Densmore: I was like self-centered.
I'm the one that was sexually molested.
But I have realized he had a point.
Because I was all wrapped up in what happened to me,
what this person did to me, how I feel about it.
I was hurt, I was victimized.
And what did that lead to?
That led to my opiate addiction.
That led to me passing away.
Being a slave to this substance, but I was
being self-centered.
Why?
Because I was holding onto this resentment without
giving one thought, not one thought to what this other
person who abused me might have gone through as a child.
Never even considered it in 20 years.
That this guy, maybe he was sexually molested when
he was a little child, an innocent little defenseless
child, never considered it.
So that kind of gave me pause to think for
a minute about it.
So he said, don't you think that's a little
bit self-centered?
And I said, I guess maybe.
And then he was like would, if you knew that he had been
sexually molested, would that cause you to have a little
bit of compassion toward him?
And then I imagined that maybe he had been sexually molested.
And then I did have a feeling of compassion and
that was the beginning of being able to let it go.
Like realizing that I had been holding onto this thing and
that it was self-centered, gave me a little, I
had to overcome myself,
Get out of my own way, if that makes sense.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
So it was an aha moment, but it was a small,
it was a beginning.
It wasn't like a gone all of a sudden.
It was just, that's how you were able to start and
Branden Densmore: Yep.
And then I had a prayer that I would say every day.
We could talk a lot about forgiveness.
There's a lot of different aspects to it and the process.
I don't know if you wanna spend that, that much time
on the show talking about it.
Rod Bland: I've got about 15 minutes, so yeah, it's
really what's valuable to the viewers, so I think
it would be valuable.
Branden Densmore: Okay.
Let's see, what else could I say about forgiveness?
So letting it go.
And people say how do you forgive?
How do you forgive someone who sexually molested you?
In Alcoholics Anonymous, they teach us that people are
sick, like spiritually ill.
So seeing the abuser as a sick person, and that we can
forgive the offense that a person does to us because
we realize that they are sick and that even though
they have offended us, that they're really on a
spiritual level, a friend.
Somewhere inside of the person is like a pure spirit
or spiritual being, somewhere.
Even if we can't see it, there's a pure soul there.
But it's been distorted because they're
ill, they're sick.
So getting in touch with compassion for other people
and it, like I said before, it's a bitter pill to swallow.
Rod Bland: Yeah, it's a lot easier to go that
person or what they did is demonic in, in a way.
For want of a better term, as opposed to
they're ill and sick and Yeah it's a way forward.
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
It's a way forward.
And it's tough with the kind of world that we live in
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: with all of the terrible
atrocities that happen.
But I had held onto this thing for 20 years and it
was driving my behavior and it had transformed
me into an angry person living an angry lifestyle.
I needed to find a way to really let it go.
I think a lot of people are in this kind of a situation now.
This doesn't mean that that his behavior was ex excused,
that I'm excusing his behavior by forgiving him.
That's not what this is about.
Rod Bland: Yep.
He just reframing it in a way.
Branden Densmore: It's not his behavior was right.
But when you understand that we've come from that we're
I look at it like this, is that we're essentially apes.
Like we have we're animals.
Spiritual beings, animals are spiritual beings, but we're
essentially animals that have animal ape-like behavior.
And you see this kind of thing, domestic abuse,
violence and stuff like that in the animal kingdom.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: We have these base instincts.
But if you understand that, it becomes a little bit
more understandable too that these kind of atrocities
manipulations abuses that war, violence, all that
kind of stuff that, that exists in this world.
When you look at the animal kingdom, And the
world of nature, you realize how violent of
a place that is now.
There's love, there's compassion, there's all
that good stuff in nature.
There's beauty, but it's a violent place too.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: This is where we come from.
We are, we come from nature, but we're, I believe
that we are evolving into more conscious creators
of our own destiny.
Rod Bland: Yeah, I believe that too.
I think that's, that's why I'm doing this.
That's why you we're having this conversation with you,
because if we didn't believe that we're becoming more
conscious and loving beings, then, what's the point?
I think that's where everybody's going
and you could either participate in that or not.
So yeah,
Branden Densmore: And we're of, growing out of that
violent kind of nature.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Yeah.
Branden Densmore: more conscious.
But the reason I went into that diatribe is
that it makes the abuses that we endure a little
bit more understandable.
Rod Bland: Yep.
I guess you, you look at it this way, the
contribution that you've made since your recovery,
the people that you've impacted, that wouldn't
have happened unless you'd gone through that.
You went through that process.
I think it's part of, what do you want your life to mean?
You want to get to the end of your life and just be angry.
Just die angry, or do you wanna be something else?
Something I forgot to ask you was a lot of people who I've
spoken to after their near death experiences, it opens
up these latent abilities that they'd never had before.
Extrasensory abilities.
Have you had any other spiritually transformative
experiences or anything or have you noticed anything
like being empathic or anything like that since
you've had our NDE?
Branden Densmore: Yeah.
Experienced a lot of different abilities that
have awakened and but I did have a spiritual visitation
about a year after the, that near death experience
that I described before.
Rod Bland: Okay.
Tell us about.
Branden Densmore: But the purpose of the 12 steps is to
have a spiritual awakening.
So 12th step.
The 12th step is having had a spiritual awakening.
We bring this message to other alcoholics, right?
And in the back of the big book, there's an
appendix entry about spiritual experiences.
And Bill Wilson, the creator of Alcoholics Anonymous,
had a spiritual type experience of visitation.
They call it a white light experience.
But in the back of the big book, it says that not
everybody has these kind of white light experiences.
That they're usually more gradual kinds of
spiritual experiences that happen when you've
gone through the 12 steps.
But I had one of these white light type experiences.
I had been, having a kind of a hard time with my recovery
and prayed vigilantly for during a morning and About my
situation, and I was taking a shower one day and through
the ceiling came a light.
You know how you, if you look into a, the
distance on a hot day and everything goes like this,
Rod Bland: Yeah, like a mirage.
Branden Densmore: what it was like coming
through my ceiling.
Rod Bland: Okay.
Branden Densmore: And,
Rod Bland: were you surprised?
You're like,
Branden Densmore: I was like, wow, what is that?
And
I'm in the shower, taking a shower.
This comes through the ceiling and all of a sudden
I'm penetrated by it.
And it was like the most peaceful.
Loving, kind of dynamic energy
that I could ever imagine.
And it went through every aspect of my being.
So when this thing came through the ceiling, I
started having all of these thoughts first of all,
I didn't know was this God, was this an angel?
What is this?
And then I could feel the power and the
love of this thing.
And I started having all of these thoughts like,
oh, I'm not worthy to have this experience.
I've messed up in life.
I've done X, Y, and z.
Rod Bland: Why me?
Branden Densmore: it, it didn't care in the slightest.
Like it, I felt like it was reading my mind
or it knew the thoughts
and the feelings that I was having.
And it was like, it looked past those
thoughts and feelings.
It looked through them.
It penetrated through the thoughts and the feelings
through my body, through every aspect of me.
And it had nothing but love and respect.
And it was mind blowing and baffling all at the same time.
And I just started crying.
I was just like, oh, wow.
This is unbelievable.
I just had so much gratitude that this being
revealed itself to me.
Rod Bland: It's a pretty rare thing, isn't it?
To feel zero judgment and love regardless.
Branden Densmore: Zero.
Zero judgment.
Rod Bland: yeah.
Branden Densmore: And I feel like that kind of
awakened something in me where I'm able to speak with
people without judgment.
Cuz people tell me, their problems, things that they've
gone through, things that they're going through and
they expect a judgment.
But I'm able to just, that maybe that's one of the
abilities that's awakened,
Is the ability to listen to people and to not
judge them whatsoever.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
That's interesting.
So I've just got two, two more questions for you, Brandon.
Firstly I'll say I think you are one of the most
brave people I've ever spoken to in my entire
life, and I've spoken to a couple now as a result of
this work that I'm doing.
But I think to face down, knowing what you would have
to go through to recover, man, that takes some bravery
and to face down your past experiences and go, okay I'm
going to move past those and just live a better life and
forget about being angry.
That, that really takes something.
So speaking about life, so what do you consider to
be living a good life now?
It sounds like your life is pretty good, but what
do you consider that, that to be the essential parts?
Branden Densmore: Finding, finding meaning l leading
a meaningful kind of life,
which for me it's and my business and helping people
and going on shows like yours, Rod, sharing my
story and following that and improving, but finding
a way to be comfortable and happy fulfilled in life.
And it's not all about striving either.
Sometimes you need to strive, but other times it's nice to
just relax and be comfortable.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Branden Densmore: To enjoy life.
Rod Bland: And where can people find more about when
we'll put in the show notes or the description more about
you, but where can people find out more about what you do
Branden Densmore: Facebook's good.
Rod Bland: Yep.
Branden Densmore: Brandon Densmore, b r a n d e n,
Densmore, D E N S M O R E.
Brandon Densmore I'm a certified spiritual coach.
Rod Bland: Okay.
Branden Densmore: I'm also a business consultant.
And feel free to reach out if you have any
questions about that.
It's my passion.
I love it.
And Facebook is good.
You can also reach me at CoachBrandonDensmore@gmail.com.
Rod Bland: Excellent.
All right.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
I really appreciate you being open about the questions.
And I think that the viewers will have gotten
a great deal out of this.
And wish you well.
Branden Densmore: Thank you.
My pleasure.
Glad to be here.