1 00:00:00,500 --> 00:00:02,930 Branden Densmore: And just the anxiety and the, 2 00:00:03,293 --> 00:00:06,883 pacing back and forth, not comfortable in my own skin. 3 00:00:07,014 --> 00:00:10,074 Finally the guy shows up and I'm just so happy and 4 00:00:10,074 --> 00:00:11,424 relieved that he's there. 5 00:00:12,424 --> 00:00:13,714 And then he leaves 6 00:00:16,260 --> 00:00:16,696 ​ Rod Bland: Um, 7 00:00:16,996 --> 00:00:19,666 My guest today is Brandon Densmore. 8 00:00:20,096 --> 00:00:21,626 Thanks for coming on the show, Brandon. 9 00:00:21,626 --> 00:00:22,736 It's great to have you here. 10 00:00:23,366 --> 00:00:24,326 Branden Densmore: Yes, my pleasure. 11 00:00:25,136 --> 00:00:27,956 Rod Bland: I definitely will want to get into your near 12 00:00:27,956 --> 00:00:29,996 death experience for sure. 13 00:00:29,996 --> 00:00:32,636 Cause I, I think it sounds fascinating to me, but I would 14 00:00:32,636 --> 00:00:35,721 like to get an understanding of a little bit about your 15 00:00:35,721 --> 00:00:39,171 background and what your life was like before that 16 00:00:39,171 --> 00:00:42,021 occurred, just to give us some context for how you 17 00:00:42,026 --> 00:00:43,251 ended up where you were. 18 00:00:44,166 --> 00:00:44,526 Branden Densmore: Okay. 19 00:00:44,551 --> 00:00:44,971 Let's see. 20 00:00:45,098 --> 00:00:48,008 I had a pretty, pretty rough life, I guess you could say. 21 00:00:48,133 --> 00:00:51,133 I was sexually molested when I was eight years old, 22 00:00:52,417 --> 00:00:53,922 and that hurt quite a bit. 23 00:00:53,961 --> 00:00:56,863 Affected my self-esteem, my, my self-image 24 00:00:56,863 --> 00:01:01,268 confidence and created a lot of harsh feelings. 25 00:01:01,688 --> 00:01:05,391 So anyways, that happened when I was eight and at 26 00:01:05,391 --> 00:01:10,437 age 14 I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease, and 27 00:01:10,437 --> 00:01:12,347 sacroiliac spondylitis. 28 00:01:13,337 --> 00:01:13,937 So I was in 29 00:01:14,012 --> 00:01:14,947 Rod Bland: Can you explain what they are? 30 00:01:15,217 --> 00:01:15,817 Crohn's disease? 31 00:01:15,817 --> 00:01:17,257 I've heard of them before, but I'm just not sure 32 00:01:17,257 --> 00:01:18,687 what they are, and other people are watching, 33 00:01:18,687 --> 00:01:19,247 might not know either. 34 00:01:19,267 --> 00:01:19,747 Branden Densmore: Sure. 35 00:01:19,867 --> 00:01:22,744 So Crohn's disease is arthritis of the intestine. 36 00:01:23,734 --> 00:01:24,004 Rod Bland: Oh. 37 00:01:24,214 --> 00:01:25,934 Branden Densmore: Is the easy way to explain it. 38 00:01:25,934 --> 00:01:28,617 And then sacroiliac spondylitis is 39 00:01:28,617 --> 00:01:29,967 arthritis of the spine. 40 00:01:30,967 --> 00:01:31,297 Rod Bland: Right. 41 00:01:32,297 --> 00:01:34,937 Branden Densmore: So obviously like it caused a lot of pain. 42 00:01:35,937 --> 00:01:40,148 And I was put on opiate medications when I was 14 43 00:01:41,018 --> 00:01:42,248 to help cope with the pain. 44 00:01:43,248 --> 00:01:46,715 And ended up getting dependent on those medications. 45 00:01:47,715 --> 00:01:51,145 Dropped out in the ninth grade from school. 46 00:01:51,645 --> 00:01:52,042 . and, 47 00:01:52,042 --> 00:01:53,722 Rod Bland: So you would have been around 14, 15 48 00:01:53,812 --> 00:01:54,802 at that time as well. 49 00:01:55,042 --> 00:01:58,432 Branden Densmore: Geez 15, 15 16, 50 00:01:59,362 --> 00:01:59,452 Rod Bland: Okay. 51 00:01:59,602 --> 00:02:00,462 Branden Densmore: around that age. 52 00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:02,029 I hated school. 53 00:02:03,029 --> 00:02:07,098 Like the whole, the pressure to fit in, to conform and 54 00:02:07,098 --> 00:02:08,671 I was bullied horrendously. 55 00:02:08,686 --> 00:02:13,376 I was raised in an alternate religion, so the practices 56 00:02:13,856 --> 00:02:17,306 in that religion made me stand out as different. 57 00:02:18,306 --> 00:02:21,826 So I guess maybe that made me an easy target, or 58 00:02:21,826 --> 00:02:24,826 maybe it was my self-esteem issues from when I was 59 00:02:24,826 --> 00:02:28,738 sexually molested that weren't resolved, that kind 60 00:02:28,743 --> 00:02:30,238 of opened me up to attack. 61 00:02:31,238 --> 00:02:31,568 Rod Bland: Yeah. 62 00:02:31,718 --> 00:02:34,328 Did you have many friends at school or any close 63 00:02:34,328 --> 00:02:34,808 friends at school? 64 00:02:34,905 --> 00:02:36,712 Branden Densmore: I made some friends, but I hung 65 00:02:36,712 --> 00:02:40,008 out with the wrong crowd, I desperately wanted 66 00:02:40,008 --> 00:02:44,272 acceptance, desperately wanted friends, people to like me 67 00:02:44,304 --> 00:02:49,392 people to share my life with, and wasn't accepted by 68 00:02:49,446 --> 00:02:53,135 the normal crowd cuz I was so different but ended up 69 00:02:53,135 --> 00:02:56,625 hanging out with the wrong crowd, which kind of got me 70 00:02:56,630 --> 00:02:58,475 into more trouble, but yeah. 71 00:02:59,025 --> 00:03:00,135 Rod Bland: We got to the part where you're talking 72 00:03:00,135 --> 00:03:03,013 about your time at school and I distracted you then, 73 00:03:03,063 --> 00:03:06,423 but I can relate because I know what it feels like to be 74 00:03:06,753 --> 00:03:08,073 someone who's seen as different. 75 00:03:08,140 --> 00:03:10,555 I, where I grew up I grew up right in the middle of 76 00:03:10,555 --> 00:03:12,925 the bush, in the middle of nowhere in Western Australia. 77 00:03:13,385 --> 00:03:15,054 Not that that was unusual in the country. 78 00:03:15,514 --> 00:03:18,695 But I was just an unusual kid I think smarter than 79 00:03:19,145 --> 00:03:20,225 a lot of people were. 80 00:03:20,405 --> 00:03:24,095 And the same just desperately wanted to be friends with 81 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:28,185 people and often accepted being treated in a way 82 00:03:28,185 --> 00:03:29,823 that was, not great. 83 00:03:29,839 --> 00:03:32,899 Just so that I could feel like I had people at 84 00:03:32,899 --> 00:03:34,159 least a little bit close. 85 00:03:34,223 --> 00:03:36,053 Branden Densmore: Yeah, it is tough. 86 00:03:36,114 --> 00:03:38,154 So started hanging out with the wrong crowd. 87 00:03:38,304 --> 00:03:39,234 I hated school. 88 00:03:40,234 --> 00:03:43,264 Didn't really care for the teachers, felt I didn't 89 00:03:43,264 --> 00:03:45,634 think I was gonna use the information I was learning 90 00:03:46,384 --> 00:03:47,555 and rebelled against it. 91 00:03:47,622 --> 00:03:51,022 Dropped out in the ninth grade and then worked 92 00:03:51,027 --> 00:03:52,612 a couple dead end jobs. 93 00:03:53,612 --> 00:03:56,746 Again, dependent on that medication and ended up 94 00:03:56,746 --> 00:03:59,236 having my first NDE at age 21. 95 00:04:00,236 --> 00:04:00,746 Rod Bland: Okay. 96 00:04:00,986 --> 00:04:01,526 21. 97 00:04:02,526 --> 00:04:02,826 Branden Densmore: Yep. 98 00:04:02,826 --> 00:04:06,376 Rod Bland: Alright so this is between, so between 14 and 21. 99 00:04:06,946 --> 00:04:08,836 So that was, you dropped outta school and you just 100 00:04:08,836 --> 00:04:10,096 had a variety of jobs. 101 00:04:10,101 --> 00:04:11,509 And then we've got our first NDE. 102 00:04:11,744 --> 00:04:13,079 So yeah, tell us about that. 103 00:04:13,664 --> 00:04:14,054 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 104 00:04:14,116 --> 00:04:17,459 Had my first NDE at age 21, I was in a fistfight. 105 00:04:18,459 --> 00:04:22,809 And the guy ended up being a third degree black belt, which 106 00:04:22,869 --> 00:04:24,069 I didn't know at the time. 107 00:04:25,069 --> 00:04:25,399 Rod Bland: Whoa, 108 00:04:26,344 --> 00:04:28,114 Branden Densmore: So anyways, he, we were in a 109 00:04:28,114 --> 00:04:30,844 fist fight and he kicked me in the head three times 110 00:04:30,943 --> 00:04:32,353 with steel-toed boots on. 111 00:04:33,353 --> 00:04:35,839 And I went to the doctor the next day and he said that 112 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,959 if there had been three more pounds of pressure behind 113 00:04:38,959 --> 00:04:42,049 that final kick, that his boot would've gone into my brain. 114 00:04:43,049 --> 00:04:47,960 So that NDE, what happened was it was just a total blackout. 115 00:04:48,750 --> 00:04:52,050 Just complete absence of anything and everything. 116 00:04:52,380 --> 00:04:53,910 Just total blackness. 117 00:04:54,910 --> 00:04:57,675 Rod Bland: So you were still, you were conscious, but there 118 00:04:57,675 --> 00:05:01,065 was no input rather than you being unconscious is that 119 00:05:01,065 --> 00:05:01,305 Branden Densmore: what you mean? 120 00:05:01,305 --> 00:05:01,425 Yeah. 121 00:05:01,657 --> 00:05:02,827 And no time. 122 00:05:03,827 --> 00:05:06,477 Like it was just nothing. 123 00:05:07,477 --> 00:05:09,847 And it's hard to describe because how often do we 124 00:05:09,847 --> 00:05:11,167 really experience nothing? 125 00:05:12,127 --> 00:05:15,677 But there, there was an observer, right? 126 00:05:15,718 --> 00:05:18,598 How else can we even describe nothingness if we're not 127 00:05:18,598 --> 00:05:19,738 there to experience it? 128 00:05:20,738 --> 00:05:21,158 Rod Bland: Yeah. 129 00:05:21,398 --> 00:05:21,698 Yeah. 130 00:05:21,698 --> 00:05:22,509 There has to be an observer. 131 00:05:22,509 --> 00:05:23,049 That's what you meant. 132 00:05:23,079 --> 00:05:23,409 Okay. 133 00:05:23,432 --> 00:05:25,748 I thought for a moment you felt like there was a person, 134 00:05:25,808 --> 00:05:28,265 something observing you, but you were the observer. 135 00:05:28,890 --> 00:05:29,160 Branden Densmore: Yep. 136 00:05:29,260 --> 00:05:29,700 Nothing. 137 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:30,330 Nothing. 138 00:05:30,373 --> 00:05:32,876 But the thing that happened after that was that, I 139 00:05:32,876 --> 00:05:34,466 had believed I was stupid. 140 00:05:35,466 --> 00:05:39,255 Going back to like when I was sexually molested I had 141 00:05:39,255 --> 00:05:41,685 developed self-confidence, self-esteem issues. 142 00:05:42,685 --> 00:05:45,720 And then in school, I dropped out in the ninth grade. 143 00:05:45,725 --> 00:05:48,785 I was made fun of by kids in school. 144 00:05:48,945 --> 00:05:52,325 And somewhere along the line I adopted this 145 00:05:52,325 --> 00:05:53,915 belief that I was stupid. 146 00:05:54,245 --> 00:05:56,195 Like I wasn't gonna go anywhere in life. 147 00:05:57,065 --> 00:06:00,005 I wasn't intelligent, I was no good, right? 148 00:06:01,005 --> 00:06:05,085 So when I was in that fist fight, I started 149 00:06:05,090 --> 00:06:08,919 asking questions like what am I passionate about? 150 00:06:08,919 --> 00:06:10,029 Why am I even here? 151 00:06:11,029 --> 00:06:13,278 And what ended up happening was I went back 152 00:06:13,278 --> 00:06:15,028 to school to get a GED. 153 00:06:16,078 --> 00:06:18,988 It's a general equivalent equivalency to like a 154 00:06:18,988 --> 00:06:19,828 high school diploma. 155 00:06:20,563 --> 00:06:21,143 Rod Bland: Ok got ya.. 156 00:06:21,403 --> 00:06:22,907 We call it our high school certificate. 157 00:06:22,907 --> 00:06:23,227 Yep. 158 00:06:24,202 --> 00:06:26,082 Branden Densmore: And when I went back, I discovered 159 00:06:26,082 --> 00:06:28,732 that I had a passion, like a deep passion for learning. 160 00:06:29,732 --> 00:06:33,032 Like I just, I loved learning new things and 161 00:06:33,107 --> 00:06:35,327 just the thrill of it, the feeling of it, of 162 00:06:35,327 --> 00:06:39,197 coming to a discovery, like I just loved that. 163 00:06:39,363 --> 00:06:42,783 I went back, got my GED directly after this thing. 164 00:06:42,783 --> 00:06:46,263 I started reading everything I could about self-development, 165 00:06:46,268 --> 00:06:47,703 spirituality, that kind of thing. 166 00:06:48,703 --> 00:06:50,562 Rod Bland: So did you read much while you were in school? 167 00:06:50,562 --> 00:06:52,794 Or this is something that came, after you did your GED 168 00:06:52,794 --> 00:06:54,654 you suddenly decided, okay, I'm gonna read as much as I 169 00:06:54,654 --> 00:06:56,004 possibly can about everything. 170 00:06:56,004 --> 00:06:57,793 Branden Densmore: Yeah, I just started, looking 171 00:06:57,793 --> 00:07:01,609 into stuff listening to audio books and it just, 172 00:07:01,609 --> 00:07:04,129 every book that I would listen to and every book 173 00:07:04,134 --> 00:07:06,229 that I would read, it was like, I wanted more and 174 00:07:06,289 --> 00:07:07,669 wow, I really enjoy this. 175 00:07:08,669 --> 00:07:09,009 Rod Bland: Yeah. 176 00:07:09,012 --> 00:07:10,602 It opens up a world, doesn't it? 177 00:07:11,052 --> 00:07:11,802 Branden Densmore: It does. 178 00:07:11,862 --> 00:07:14,177 Rod Bland: I can relate around 19, 20. 179 00:07:14,197 --> 00:07:16,567 It's once you start reading books about self-development, 180 00:07:16,567 --> 00:07:19,000 because you don't normally get taught this at school. 181 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,429 It's not part of this any school curriculum 182 00:07:21,429 --> 00:07:22,089 that I'm aware of. 183 00:07:22,494 --> 00:07:23,154 Branden Densmore: Yeah, that's 184 00:07:23,259 --> 00:07:25,389 Rod Bland: yeah, it suddenly you realize there's a lot 185 00:07:25,389 --> 00:07:27,941 more to life than what you realize that there was 186 00:07:27,941 --> 00:07:28,641 and you just want more. 187 00:07:29,386 --> 00:07:32,902 Branden Densmore: You Yeah, I believed I was stupid and 188 00:07:32,917 --> 00:07:37,802 and went back, got my GED then went to and enrolled 189 00:07:37,802 --> 00:07:40,212 in a community college and 190 00:07:40,277 --> 00:07:41,487 Rod Bland: So this was, how long did it take 191 00:07:41,492 --> 00:07:42,477 you to do your g e d? 192 00:07:42,482 --> 00:07:44,127 Was that A couple of years to do that. 193 00:07:44,532 --> 00:07:46,002 Branden Densmore: oh, it was a few months really, 194 00:07:46,362 --> 00:07:47,562 I think maybe six months, 195 00:07:48,267 --> 00:07:48,597 Rod Bland: Yep. 196 00:07:48,617 --> 00:07:49,037 Yep. 197 00:07:49,090 --> 00:07:50,830 Branden Densmore: I needed to go back and study up on 198 00:07:50,830 --> 00:07:53,995 all the material geometry, algebra, all that good stuff. 199 00:07:54,995 --> 00:07:55,555 Went back. 200 00:07:56,105 --> 00:07:59,677 Did that enrolled into a two year college, finished 201 00:07:59,682 --> 00:08:02,223 that and then wanted more. 202 00:08:02,603 --> 00:08:05,627 So I ended up applying to this summer program 203 00:08:05,632 --> 00:08:06,977 called Exploring Transfer. 204 00:08:07,977 --> 00:08:11,101 So it's a program that the community colleges here in 205 00:08:11,361 --> 00:08:14,371 the States, they have this program called Exploring 206 00:08:14,881 --> 00:08:18,991 Transfer, and they'll take a community college student and 207 00:08:18,991 --> 00:08:20,731 send them to Vasser College. 208 00:08:21,716 --> 00:08:24,044 So that's Yale's sister school, 209 00:08:24,659 --> 00:08:25,635 Rod Bland: Yep I've heard of that. 210 00:08:25,635 --> 00:08:26,475 And I don't live there. 211 00:08:26,895 --> 00:08:27,055 Yep. 212 00:08:27,450 --> 00:08:27,960 Branden Densmore: yes. 213 00:08:27,990 --> 00:08:28,900 Yeah, it's quite famous. 214 00:08:29,670 --> 00:08:33,113 And ended up going there for a summer, six weeks 215 00:08:33,293 --> 00:08:36,563 and took two full courses over a six week period 216 00:08:37,563 --> 00:08:41,683 and then got a 4.0, a perfect grade point average 217 00:08:41,683 --> 00:08:43,273 an A in both classes. 218 00:08:44,068 --> 00:08:44,608 Rod Bland: Okay. 219 00:08:45,043 --> 00:08:46,603 Branden Densmore: Not bad for a high school 220 00:08:46,653 --> 00:08:47,753 dropout who's stupid. 221 00:08:47,771 --> 00:08:48,089 Rod Bland: Yeah. 222 00:08:48,153 --> 00:08:49,353 Must have spurred you on. 223 00:08:50,058 --> 00:08:50,658 Branden Densmore: it did. 224 00:08:50,778 --> 00:08:55,608 And so I got this, got a 4.0 and then applied to Vassar to 225 00:08:55,608 --> 00:08:56,988 become a full-time student. 226 00:08:57,738 --> 00:09:01,286 It was my second choice next to Harvard, but Harvard 227 00:09:01,286 --> 00:09:03,857 wouldn't accept my application because I had a GED. 228 00:09:04,106 --> 00:09:05,546 They require a high school diploma. 229 00:09:06,546 --> 00:09:06,966 Rod Bland: Wow. 230 00:09:07,116 --> 00:09:07,606 Okay. 231 00:09:08,606 --> 00:09:11,276 Branden Densmore: So went to Vassar for four years 232 00:09:11,786 --> 00:09:13,826 and got a bachelor's degree in philosophy. 233 00:09:14,826 --> 00:09:17,535 And but what people didn't know is that this 234 00:09:17,535 --> 00:09:21,615 whole time I was still dependent on these opiates. 235 00:09:22,125 --> 00:09:24,225 Rod Bland: Was it the dependency, did you still 236 00:09:24,225 --> 00:09:27,665 have pain to deal with the the Crohn's disease, et cetera? 237 00:09:27,749 --> 00:09:28,709 Is that the reason why? 238 00:09:29,159 --> 00:09:32,219 Branden Densmore: Yeah, on and off it would come and go. 239 00:09:32,219 --> 00:09:34,943 I would have a flare and then be in really bad 240 00:09:34,943 --> 00:09:38,492 pain, but also, I was taking this medication 241 00:09:38,492 --> 00:09:39,752 to cope with my feelings 242 00:09:40,752 --> 00:09:42,882 because I still had, after that first near-death 243 00:09:42,882 --> 00:09:45,852 experience and over this time period of this educational 244 00:09:45,857 --> 00:09:48,132 journey, I still had these self-esteem issues 245 00:09:49,132 --> 00:09:49,622 Rod Bland: yeah. 246 00:09:50,012 --> 00:09:51,092 Branden Densmore: going back to childhood. 247 00:09:52,092 --> 00:09:52,742 But I would 248 00:09:52,847 --> 00:09:53,087 Rod Bland: that a 249 00:09:53,192 --> 00:09:55,023 Branden Densmore: these opiates and it would dull 250 00:09:56,023 --> 00:09:59,600 those, the inner dialogue telling myself that I'm 251 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,070 no good stuff like that. 252 00:10:01,620 --> 00:10:03,360 Rod Bland: So it wasn't just about the physical pain, 253 00:10:03,365 --> 00:10:07,960 it was gave you some relief from that emotional turmoil 254 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:09,790 that you're putting yourself through whenever you start 255 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,200 getting down on yourself. 256 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,520 It just gave you relief from that. 257 00:10:13,030 --> 00:10:15,550 Branden Densmore: Exactly made me feel like I could 258 00:10:15,550 --> 00:10:17,290 concentrate on my work. 259 00:10:18,290 --> 00:10:21,243 Like I could deal better in social situations, 260 00:10:22,243 --> 00:10:22,663 Rod Bland: Yep. 261 00:10:22,857 --> 00:10:25,047 Branden Densmore: Made me feel calm, made me feel good, 262 00:10:26,047 --> 00:10:27,997 Rod Bland: So it sounds like you were you, despite 263 00:10:27,997 --> 00:10:29,707 being addicted, uh, you were high functioning 264 00:10:29,767 --> 00:10:30,667 at that point in time. 265 00:10:31,657 --> 00:10:33,007 Branden Densmore: I was, yeah. 266 00:10:33,070 --> 00:10:35,800 Had to be, there Vasser wasn't easy. 267 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,720 I had to read a stack of books like this, 268 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,091 write paper after paper. 269 00:10:41,091 --> 00:10:43,071 The whole time that I was on this educational 270 00:10:43,071 --> 00:10:44,611 journey, no one really knew. 271 00:10:44,611 --> 00:10:47,798 I hid it pretty well that I was dependent 272 00:10:47,803 --> 00:10:48,668 on these opiates. 273 00:10:49,168 --> 00:10:52,607 Rod Bland: Not even close friends or family knew. 274 00:10:52,607 --> 00:10:54,027 Branden Densmore: Family knew but there wasn't much 275 00:10:54,032 --> 00:10:54,937 they could do about it. 276 00:10:55,937 --> 00:10:56,297 Rod Bland: Yeah. 277 00:10:56,657 --> 00:10:57,827 Did they try to intervene? 278 00:10:57,827 --> 00:11:00,267 Branden Densmore: They tried to, but there wasn't much 279 00:11:00,267 --> 00:11:02,458 they could do about it, I had a legitimate reason 280 00:11:03,458 --> 00:11:03,818 Rod Bland: yeah. 281 00:11:04,118 --> 00:11:05,528 Branden Densmore: I could just go to a doctor and they 282 00:11:05,533 --> 00:11:06,848 would write a prescription. 283 00:11:07,219 --> 00:11:07,939 It was tough. 284 00:11:08,028 --> 00:11:08,628 And 285 00:11:09,628 --> 00:11:12,548 I would take too much of the medication, more 286 00:11:12,553 --> 00:11:14,378 than prescribed, and then I would run out, 287 00:11:15,228 --> 00:11:18,884 And it was just a vicious cycle of, Up and down. 288 00:11:18,954 --> 00:11:20,394 I'd run out of this medication. 289 00:11:20,394 --> 00:11:24,544 My anxiety would just go through the roof and the 290 00:11:24,544 --> 00:11:26,404 thoughts would come back. 291 00:11:27,008 --> 00:11:28,858 Rod Bland: So you finish your course at Vasser. 292 00:11:29,558 --> 00:11:32,093 The addiction is an issue, but you felt like you had 293 00:11:32,093 --> 00:11:33,503 a handle on it at the time. 294 00:11:34,503 --> 00:11:38,703 There was starting to be these sort of bad periods 295 00:11:38,703 --> 00:11:40,618 and not so bad periods that were starting. 296 00:11:40,648 --> 00:11:42,688 The gap was starting to widen because you're running 297 00:11:42,688 --> 00:11:45,921 out of your prescription medication and I imagine 298 00:11:45,926 --> 00:11:49,431 that you are putting pressure on your caregivers 299 00:11:49,431 --> 00:11:51,891 to get more and they're not letting that happen. 300 00:11:51,981 --> 00:11:54,291 So that creates stress and, yeah. 301 00:11:54,296 --> 00:11:55,346 So what came next? 302 00:11:55,478 --> 00:11:56,328 Branden Densmore: Yeah, exactly. 303 00:11:57,088 --> 00:12:02,359 And then after graduating from Vasser, I am back in Maine, 304 00:12:03,359 --> 00:12:06,041 which is where I live, and I'm in my mom's apartment 305 00:12:06,941 --> 00:12:11,421 and I've used too much of my medication and I've been in 306 00:12:11,421 --> 00:12:13,041 withdrawals for three days. 307 00:12:14,041 --> 00:12:17,491 Rod Bland: Oh, I hear that's a seriously painful thing. 308 00:12:17,681 --> 00:12:19,836 Branden Densmore: It's like living hell basically. 309 00:12:19,845 --> 00:12:24,265 My inner dialogue was so negative and all of the 310 00:12:24,265 --> 00:12:27,995 problems of my life were just shouting at the top 311 00:12:27,995 --> 00:12:29,195 of their lungs in my mind. 312 00:12:29,743 --> 00:12:33,133 The anxiety, like I said, is, was just through the roof. 313 00:12:33,433 --> 00:12:36,001 Like it's, and I'm in my mom's apartment. 314 00:12:36,001 --> 00:12:38,161 I'm waiting for this, for the guy to show up. 315 00:12:38,184 --> 00:12:40,884 At Vassar, by the way, I didn't mention this, but I 316 00:12:40,884 --> 00:12:41,994 was introduced to heroin. 317 00:12:42,994 --> 00:12:43,504 Rod Bland: Okay. 318 00:12:43,624 --> 00:12:45,734 As an alternative when you couldn't get your 319 00:12:45,734 --> 00:12:46,654 prescription medication. 320 00:12:46,909 --> 00:12:47,569 Branden Densmore: Exactly. 321 00:12:47,869 --> 00:12:52,335 I was at a party one night in withdrawals cause I had 322 00:12:52,335 --> 00:12:53,445 run out of the medication 323 00:12:53,445 --> 00:12:55,695 and they were do just doing this stuff. 324 00:12:56,210 --> 00:12:56,630 Rod Bland: Yep. 325 00:12:57,205 --> 00:12:58,630 Branden Densmore: I decided, hey, I'll try it. 326 00:12:59,630 --> 00:13:01,550 So I knew about it and 327 00:13:01,556 --> 00:13:01,736 Rod Bland: So 328 00:13:01,756 --> 00:13:02,621 Branden Densmore: came back home, 329 00:13:02,726 --> 00:13:04,626 Rod Bland: to you're taking more risks at that point cuz 330 00:13:04,626 --> 00:13:07,986 you, I guess you, you knew that there's a chance that 331 00:13:07,986 --> 00:13:10,116 what you're actually about to take isn't what you think it 332 00:13:10,116 --> 00:13:12,941 is because of the fact that it's, the source is not from 333 00:13:12,946 --> 00:13:14,321 a pharmaceutical company. 334 00:13:14,321 --> 00:13:15,551 I guess that was in the back of your mind? 335 00:13:15,688 --> 00:13:17,511 Or is it just a case of, okay, I need to do 336 00:13:17,511 --> 00:13:18,441 something about this now? 337 00:13:19,026 --> 00:13:20,616 Branden Densmore: yeah, it wasn't really in my mind. 338 00:13:21,381 --> 00:13:21,741 Rod Bland: Yeah 339 00:13:21,808 --> 00:13:23,953 Branden Densmore: it was more almost I've read 340 00:13:23,953 --> 00:13:27,453 about it now and it's the survival mechanism 341 00:13:28,308 --> 00:13:28,668 Rod Bland: yeah. 342 00:13:29,253 --> 00:13:31,213 Branden Densmore: like you with this. 343 00:13:32,043 --> 00:13:34,426 Addiction or dependency, whatever you want to call it. 344 00:13:34,456 --> 00:13:36,736 It's like it hits the limbic system. 345 00:13:37,736 --> 00:13:40,896 So it's like your brain thinks that you need 346 00:13:40,901 --> 00:13:42,246 this thing like oxygen, 347 00:13:43,246 --> 00:13:43,636 Rod Bland: Yeah. 348 00:13:44,468 --> 00:13:45,978 Branden Densmore: I need this to survive. 349 00:13:46,049 --> 00:13:48,269 I can't continue without this thing. 350 00:13:49,269 --> 00:13:50,019 It's pretty bad. 351 00:13:50,019 --> 00:13:50,979 It's pretty powerful. 352 00:13:51,979 --> 00:13:55,579 So I'm in my mom's apartment, I'm in withdrawals. 353 00:13:55,909 --> 00:13:58,639 I've been in withdrawals for three days and I'm 354 00:13:58,639 --> 00:14:01,879 waiting for my guy to show up, to bring me some stuff 355 00:14:01,879 --> 00:14:04,009 so I don't have to be suffering like that anymore. 356 00:14:04,579 --> 00:14:04,789 Rod Bland: Yep, 357 00:14:05,139 --> 00:14:07,069 Branden Densmore: And I'm checking the clock, is 358 00:14:07,074 --> 00:14:08,389 this guy ever gonna come? 359 00:14:09,389 --> 00:14:14,153 And just the anxiety and the, pacing back and forth, not 360 00:14:14,153 --> 00:14:15,773 comfortable in my own skin. 361 00:14:15,903 --> 00:14:18,963 Finally the guy shows up and I'm just so happy and 362 00:14:18,963 --> 00:14:20,313 relieved that he's there. 363 00:14:21,313 --> 00:14:24,283 And then he leaves and I do some of the stuff. 364 00:14:24,403 --> 00:14:26,083 And finally the nightmare's over. 365 00:14:27,083 --> 00:14:30,662 Finally my mind just calms down and it's just 366 00:14:30,887 --> 00:14:31,577 Rod Bland: got relief. 367 00:14:32,342 --> 00:14:36,552 Branden Densmore: a sigh of relief and it feels good. 368 00:14:36,557 --> 00:14:40,332 And all of the negative thoughts just dissipate. 369 00:14:40,332 --> 00:14:44,752 Like smoke, just like steam coming, rolling off 370 00:14:45,092 --> 00:14:48,930 a warm lake just gone. 371 00:14:49,930 --> 00:14:53,470 And then I feel good and then all of a sudden I 372 00:14:53,470 --> 00:14:54,760 realize that I'm dying. 373 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,500 So I ended up overdosing 374 00:14:58,500 --> 00:14:59,640 Rod Bland: When you say you realized that you were 375 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:00,968 dying, what was happening? 376 00:15:01,748 --> 00:15:04,058 If something was happening physically at that point? 377 00:15:04,643 --> 00:15:06,443 Branden Densmore: yeah, I was like lying on the couch 378 00:15:07,443 --> 00:15:08,613 in my mom's apartment. 379 00:15:09,613 --> 00:15:13,665 And My breathing started to get real slow and then 380 00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:16,515 everything started really quieting quieting down. 381 00:15:16,515 --> 00:15:20,425 It was like I was just sinking and then my 382 00:15:20,430 --> 00:15:25,295 breathing was slow and I'm like, this isn't right. 383 00:15:26,295 --> 00:15:30,835 And then I'm out of my body, like standing next to myself. 384 00:15:31,835 --> 00:15:34,325 Rod Bland: so standing like in the apartment, 385 00:15:34,330 --> 00:15:36,005 looking at your body, laying on the couch. 386 00:15:36,290 --> 00:15:36,680 Branden Densmore: Yep. 387 00:15:37,625 --> 00:15:37,685 Rod Bland: Yeah. 388 00:15:37,685 --> 00:15:37,775 Yep. 389 00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:39,500 Branden Densmore: Standing right there looking at 390 00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:40,850 myself, laying on the couch. 391 00:15:41,850 --> 00:15:43,980 And then I was contemplating. 392 00:15:44,084 --> 00:15:46,333 And oddly enough, I didn't find it strange. 393 00:15:47,053 --> 00:15:47,983 It wasn't weird. 394 00:15:48,983 --> 00:15:49,253 Rod Bland: Yeah. 395 00:15:49,253 --> 00:15:51,053 You weren't anxious or anything like that, you 396 00:15:51,053 --> 00:15:53,633 thought, oh, I'm just, I'm here looking at myself. 397 00:15:53,984 --> 00:15:55,944 Did you think to yourself, oh I've just died. 398 00:15:55,949 --> 00:15:56,784 That's why I'm here? 399 00:15:56,814 --> 00:15:58,374 Or is it prep? 400 00:15:58,614 --> 00:15:58,764 Yeah. 401 00:15:59,764 --> 00:16:00,094 Branden Densmore: Yep. 402 00:16:00,274 --> 00:16:04,154 I somehow realized that I had died and the weird 403 00:16:04,154 --> 00:16:07,464 thing it was, is that it wasn't strange, which I 404 00:16:07,464 --> 00:16:09,924 don't know why it wouldn't be cuz you would think 405 00:16:09,924 --> 00:16:10,824 that it would be weird. 406 00:16:11,824 --> 00:16:13,144 Rod Bland: So it felt, when you say it wasn't 407 00:16:13,144 --> 00:16:15,484 strange, like it just felt you felt comfortable. 408 00:16:15,602 --> 00:16:16,502 Branden Densmore: Felt comfortable. 409 00:16:16,622 --> 00:16:16,952 Yep. 410 00:16:17,192 --> 00:16:17,975 Felt comfortable. 411 00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:21,140 It wasn't like odd, like an unusual event. 412 00:16:21,230 --> 00:16:23,300 For some reason that kind of thinking 413 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:24,440 never crossed my mind. 414 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,230 Was just standing there looking at my dead body 415 00:16:28,650 --> 00:16:31,321 and contemplating the meaning of my life. 416 00:16:32,321 --> 00:16:35,371 Rod Bland: As you would when you just, when 417 00:16:35,371 --> 00:16:36,181 this just occurred, 418 00:16:37,036 --> 00:16:37,456 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 419 00:16:37,621 --> 00:16:39,001 Rod Bland: What was going through your mind 420 00:16:39,301 --> 00:16:40,994 as you were contemplating the many of your life? 421 00:16:41,167 --> 00:16:42,778 Branden Densmore: oh, I was like, What was the point? 422 00:16:43,778 --> 00:16:45,038 What was the point of it all? 423 00:16:46,038 --> 00:16:49,318 I was raised in an alternative religion, you 424 00:16:49,318 --> 00:16:51,238 know, sexually molested when I was eight years old. 425 00:16:51,238 --> 00:16:54,578 Made fun of when I was a kid, dropped outta school, 426 00:16:55,178 --> 00:16:58,998 went back to school, went on this amazing educational 427 00:16:58,998 --> 00:17:03,328 journey, discovered a passion for learning, overcame the 428 00:17:03,328 --> 00:17:07,328 belief that I was stupid, but what was the point of it all? 429 00:17:08,328 --> 00:17:08,688 That's what I 430 00:17:08,738 --> 00:17:10,559 Rod Bland: You were kicking some goals at this point, 431 00:17:11,019 --> 00:17:14,479 and now it was like it was almost all for nothing. 432 00:17:15,479 --> 00:17:16,229 Branden Densmore: Exactly. 433 00:17:16,994 --> 00:17:17,384 Rod Bland: Yeah. 434 00:17:18,384 --> 00:17:20,970 Branden Densmore: And I was baffled, wasn't there 435 00:17:20,970 --> 00:17:23,460 something supposed to be something more to life? 436 00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:24,820 Rod Bland: Yeah. 437 00:17:25,555 --> 00:17:26,125 Branden Densmore: And then, 438 00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:28,630 Rod Bland: there looking at the couch contemplating. 439 00:17:29,630 --> 00:17:31,285 The worth of your life. 440 00:17:31,375 --> 00:17:32,335 And what happened next? 441 00:17:33,025 --> 00:17:33,385 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 442 00:17:33,685 --> 00:17:35,671 And I became aware of a presence. 443 00:17:36,671 --> 00:17:38,051 There was a presence in the room, 444 00:17:38,576 --> 00:17:40,281 I didn't feel uncomfortable. 445 00:17:41,281 --> 00:17:42,751 But it wasn't like I had some kind of like 446 00:17:42,781 --> 00:17:44,821 profound peace or anything. 447 00:17:44,860 --> 00:17:47,698 It was just, I was standing there contemplating the 448 00:17:47,698 --> 00:17:52,288 meaning of my life, and was baffled and confused 449 00:17:52,317 --> 00:17:54,087 and didn't see the point. 450 00:17:55,087 --> 00:17:59,550 And all of a sudden I just, I sense that something's 451 00:17:59,550 --> 00:18:00,420 in the room with me. 452 00:18:01,420 --> 00:18:03,360 You, you know how like sometimes you can feel 453 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:04,350 somebody watching you, 454 00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:05,740 Rod Bland: Yeah, 455 00:18:06,740 --> 00:18:08,240 Branden Densmore: like you just feel the eyes 456 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,820 like watching you even if you don't see somebody. 457 00:18:11,825 --> 00:18:13,410 But anyways, that's what it felt like. 458 00:18:14,565 --> 00:18:15,250 I looked around. 459 00:18:15,250 --> 00:18:19,020 There was nothing there, but I definitely felt the presence. 460 00:18:19,530 --> 00:18:23,378 And that's when I entered what you might call a holodeck. 461 00:18:24,378 --> 00:18:26,238 I like to think of it as a holodeck. 462 00:18:27,213 --> 00:18:28,323 Rod Bland: so the apartment disappeared. 463 00:18:29,323 --> 00:18:29,653 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 464 00:18:29,923 --> 00:18:30,673 It disappeared. 465 00:18:30,823 --> 00:18:32,232 And I was shown 466 00:18:33,397 --> 00:18:35,541 Rod Bland: So it was just like a, just a quick there. 467 00:18:35,541 --> 00:18:38,331 Was there one second in, in the holodeck? 468 00:18:38,331 --> 00:18:38,421 The 469 00:18:38,426 --> 00:18:39,831 next, yeah. 470 00:18:40,086 --> 00:18:41,646 Branden Densmore: just boom gone. 471 00:18:42,466 --> 00:18:45,466 I was shown two things, like I was shown a future reality. 472 00:18:46,476 --> 00:18:47,346 Where I didn't exist. 473 00:18:47,346 --> 00:18:49,866 So you could think of it as, was I shown the future? 474 00:18:50,316 --> 00:18:50,946 I don't know. 475 00:18:51,946 --> 00:18:52,636 It might have been. 476 00:18:52,886 --> 00:18:54,316 Or was it a simulation 477 00:18:54,408 --> 00:18:55,608 A possible future? 478 00:18:56,458 --> 00:18:57,118 I don't know. 479 00:18:57,148 --> 00:18:59,758 Because this brings up questions of causality 480 00:18:59,758 --> 00:19:02,246 and, do we have free will and all this stuff. 481 00:19:03,246 --> 00:19:07,086 Those are some deep questions, but I was shown a future 482 00:19:07,116 --> 00:19:10,476 reality where I didn't exist. 483 00:19:11,476 --> 00:19:14,716 So you could say I was shown the future. 484 00:19:15,716 --> 00:19:17,966 So I was shown all the people that I would never 485 00:19:17,966 --> 00:19:21,426 meet, the experiences I would never have. 486 00:19:22,426 --> 00:19:24,255 The woman that I would never marry, 487 00:19:24,765 --> 00:19:28,365 and it was like I would see a, like me, like a movie, 488 00:19:29,365 --> 00:19:30,385 watching a movie of myself 489 00:19:31,060 --> 00:19:32,860 Having all of these experiences. 490 00:19:33,860 --> 00:19:37,687 But it was like after each one it's like, okay that's 491 00:19:37,687 --> 00:19:39,037 never, that will never happen. 492 00:19:40,037 --> 00:19:40,367 Rod Bland: Right. 493 00:19:41,367 --> 00:19:42,537 Branden Densmore: Now shown another one that 494 00:19:42,537 --> 00:19:44,337 will never happen, shown another one that will never 495 00:19:44,337 --> 00:19:46,137 happen, shown another one that will never happen 496 00:19:47,153 --> 00:19:48,803 over and over and over and over again. 497 00:19:49,803 --> 00:19:52,823 And then the other thing I was shown was all of 498 00:19:52,823 --> 00:19:54,803 the people that were affected by my death. 499 00:19:55,803 --> 00:19:57,783 All of the friends in the family and 500 00:19:57,783 --> 00:19:58,953 the memorial service. 501 00:19:59,953 --> 00:20:00,763 Rod Bland: That's heavy. 502 00:20:01,763 --> 00:20:02,303 Branden Densmore: It is. 503 00:20:02,333 --> 00:20:06,503 And the one that really stands out from that part was that 504 00:20:06,503 --> 00:20:10,651 my mother coming into her apartment and discovering 505 00:20:10,651 --> 00:20:12,361 my dead body on her couch, 506 00:20:13,361 --> 00:20:15,485 and there was like puss running outta my mouth. 507 00:20:16,485 --> 00:20:22,117 And I remember her saying, my baby, my baby, no God no. 508 00:20:23,117 --> 00:20:26,307 Screaming, screaming. 509 00:20:27,307 --> 00:20:29,707 And that's when it, that's when it really hit me. 510 00:20:30,277 --> 00:20:32,448 And it was like a kick in the stomach. 511 00:20:33,448 --> 00:20:34,888 And I started begging. 512 00:20:35,918 --> 00:20:36,758 Send me back. 513 00:20:36,818 --> 00:20:42,018 I'll do whatever I have to do to overcome this addiction. 514 00:20:43,018 --> 00:20:44,558 Whatever's required of me, I will do it. 515 00:20:45,558 --> 00:20:47,598 Rod Bland: So there was a steely resolve at that point. 516 00:20:48,543 --> 00:20:48,873 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 517 00:20:48,963 --> 00:20:52,496 Because I couldn't let my mother experience that pain 518 00:20:52,496 --> 00:20:54,356 of finding her baby dead. 519 00:20:55,356 --> 00:20:55,656 Rod Bland: Yeah. 520 00:20:56,226 --> 00:20:59,390 It almost seems like that, that people often have 521 00:20:59,390 --> 00:21:01,733 a, an experience that's for them when they have 522 00:21:01,733 --> 00:21:02,813 a near death experience. 523 00:21:03,353 --> 00:21:05,303 And that was the one that was tailored for you to 524 00:21:05,303 --> 00:21:07,493 make the biggest impact by the sounds of it. 525 00:21:07,838 --> 00:21:08,328 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 526 00:21:08,558 --> 00:21:12,508 And I've told this story a few times and sometimes 527 00:21:12,508 --> 00:21:16,699 in the comments people talk about how could God, 528 00:21:16,704 --> 00:21:18,679 I don't know if this was God, this present. 529 00:21:19,679 --> 00:21:24,095 But the okay, I left a part out, so I heard a voice. 530 00:21:25,095 --> 00:21:28,875 So after seeing my mother finding my dead body, I 531 00:21:28,875 --> 00:21:32,325 heard a voice and it was a very matter of fact voice. 532 00:21:33,075 --> 00:21:35,295 It wasn't a whisper, it wasn't a loud, booming 533 00:21:35,295 --> 00:21:36,345 thunderous voice. 534 00:21:37,065 --> 00:21:39,945 It was just a very matter of fact voice that 535 00:21:39,945 --> 00:21:42,375 said, now your life is over and you wasted it. 536 00:21:43,375 --> 00:21:43,765 Rod Bland: Whoa. 537 00:21:44,765 --> 00:21:46,805 Branden Densmore: That was really what finished me off. 538 00:21:46,835 --> 00:21:48,725 That was just like, I had already been kicked in the 539 00:21:48,725 --> 00:21:50,315 stomach with seeing my mother 540 00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:51,320 Rod Bland: Yep. 541 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:53,640 Branden Densmore: and then shown the future 542 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:54,840 that never would happen. 543 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,940 And then now your life is over and you wasted it. 544 00:21:58,940 --> 00:22:00,184 So I begged, send me back. 545 00:22:00,184 --> 00:22:01,474 I'll do anything that's required. 546 00:22:01,515 --> 00:22:03,573 But people say in the comments when I tell 547 00:22:03,573 --> 00:22:06,120 this story, how could God say something like that? 548 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:09,160 Or why would God say something like that? 549 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,710 And I don't know if this presence was God, Jesus 550 00:22:11,710 --> 00:22:14,770 Buddha, who it was, it never identified itself. 551 00:22:15,770 --> 00:22:18,815 But how could a divine being of this kind say 552 00:22:18,815 --> 00:22:19,835 something like that? 553 00:22:19,835 --> 00:22:21,605 Now your life is over and you wasted it. 554 00:22:22,605 --> 00:22:26,450 So I get comments talking about that point and oh, 555 00:22:26,450 --> 00:22:27,890 it was your higher self. 556 00:22:28,921 --> 00:22:31,861 I don't know what it was, but it, like you said, Rod, 557 00:22:32,551 --> 00:22:36,181 it's like these experiences are tailored to what 558 00:22:36,181 --> 00:22:37,558 we need in that moment. 559 00:22:37,624 --> 00:22:39,664 I believe that I needed to hear that. 560 00:22:40,193 --> 00:22:41,783 Rod Bland: You've constructed your life up to that 561 00:22:41,993 --> 00:22:45,123 point around an addiction. 562 00:22:45,144 --> 00:22:47,064 And then from the outside, you looked like you had it 563 00:22:47,064 --> 00:22:49,764 all together, but at some point it was gonna end, 564 00:22:49,764 --> 00:22:51,744 gonna come to an end badly. 565 00:22:51,804 --> 00:22:54,234 And you really needed a message that was gonna 566 00:22:54,234 --> 00:22:55,074 get through to you. 567 00:22:56,074 --> 00:22:57,674 Anyway, sounds like it did. 568 00:22:57,824 --> 00:22:59,714 So what happened next? 569 00:23:00,714 --> 00:23:01,914 Branden Densmore: it definitely did. 570 00:23:01,974 --> 00:23:07,377 And I wanna say that it was the love that really got me 571 00:23:07,377 --> 00:23:08,817 to the point where I was like, 572 00:23:08,817 --> 00:23:11,017 I will do anything to 573 00:23:11,087 --> 00:23:11,782 Rod Bland: So you felt, 574 00:23:12,187 --> 00:23:12,397 Branden Densmore: this 575 00:23:12,562 --> 00:23:15,574 Rod Bland: is you felt this love from the presence or the 576 00:23:15,574 --> 00:23:16,693 voice is that what you mean? 577 00:23:17,608 --> 00:23:19,260 Branden Densmore: No, it was the love of my mother, 578 00:23:20,175 --> 00:23:20,505 Rod Bland: Ah, 579 00:23:21,505 --> 00:23:22,825 Branden Densmore: the appreciation for her 580 00:23:22,825 --> 00:23:25,865 raising me, the love that she showed me. 581 00:23:26,865 --> 00:23:31,105 And here I was doing this heroin and I died 582 00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:32,185 and she found my body. 583 00:23:33,185 --> 00:23:34,995 That the love and the respect that I had 584 00:23:35,995 --> 00:23:38,005 spurred on the change. 585 00:23:39,005 --> 00:23:39,425 Rod Bland: Yeah. 586 00:23:39,490 --> 00:23:41,749 Branden Densmore: Willingness to do whatever it takes. 587 00:23:42,749 --> 00:23:42,869 Rod Bland: Yeah. 588 00:23:42,869 --> 00:23:43,799 You had to honor that. 589 00:23:43,999 --> 00:23:45,346 couldn't not honor that at that 590 00:23:45,346 --> 00:23:45,706 point. 591 00:23:46,486 --> 00:23:46,576 Mm-hmm. 592 00:23:46,756 --> 00:23:47,009 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 593 00:23:47,009 --> 00:23:49,911 So anyways, after that experience, right after 594 00:23:49,911 --> 00:23:52,491 that I called Crisis. 595 00:23:53,491 --> 00:23:55,011 Rod Bland: So back up a little bit. 596 00:23:55,011 --> 00:23:58,593 So you said, okay, I want to go back and I guess 597 00:23:58,593 --> 00:24:01,293 you did and you bump back in your body and your 598 00:24:01,353 --> 00:24:03,181 Branden Densmore: do whatever it takes, send me back. 599 00:24:03,181 --> 00:24:03,991 Please, God. 600 00:24:03,991 --> 00:24:04,691 Just send me back. 601 00:24:05,321 --> 00:24:06,361 I want to live. 602 00:24:07,081 --> 00:24:10,081 I'll do whatever it takes to not make this happen. 603 00:24:10,136 --> 00:24:12,654 And all of a sudden, boom, I'm back in my body. 604 00:24:12,654 --> 00:24:13,764 Gasping for breath. 605 00:24:14,604 --> 00:24:16,820 Rod Bland: Do you have any idea for how long that was? 606 00:24:16,933 --> 00:24:17,233 Branden Densmore: No. 607 00:24:18,233 --> 00:24:21,773 But after the experience, I called Crisis and went 608 00:24:21,773 --> 00:24:25,353 into a seven day detox where I had to learn how 609 00:24:25,353 --> 00:24:26,703 to tie my shoelaces again 610 00:24:27,703 --> 00:24:28,123 Rod Bland: man? 611 00:24:28,713 --> 00:24:30,963 Branden Densmore: cuz the drug was not in my system. 612 00:24:31,963 --> 00:24:34,802 And that's how dependent I was on this medication. 613 00:24:35,372 --> 00:24:42,792 I think I was 32 when this happened, and I'm 40 now. 614 00:24:43,792 --> 00:24:48,790 But I had been on this opiate medication since age 15, 615 00:24:49,735 --> 00:24:50,155 Rod Bland: Yeah. 616 00:24:50,515 --> 00:24:50,815 Yeah. 617 00:24:50,815 --> 00:24:53,755 So getting on 16, 17 years. 618 00:24:54,755 --> 00:24:57,335 Branden Densmore: so it was, my brain was just totally 619 00:24:57,935 --> 00:24:59,345 wrapped up in this thing. 620 00:25:00,345 --> 00:25:00,735 Rod Bland: Yeah. 621 00:25:01,065 --> 00:25:06,645 So your brain's ability to produce those same chemicals, 622 00:25:06,650 --> 00:25:10,033 dopamine, et cetera, was, pretty much nonexistent. 623 00:25:10,963 --> 00:25:13,894 So you, oh I can't even begin to imagine what that must have 624 00:25:13,894 --> 00:25:18,903 been like to go, okay, we're just cold Turkey and h how 625 00:25:18,903 --> 00:25:22,300 do you, how did they treat you for that how did that 626 00:25:22,300 --> 00:25:23,467 occur that seven day period? 627 00:25:23,467 --> 00:25:25,490 Branden Densmore: They they gave me some some medication, 628 00:25:25,516 --> 00:25:28,375 for an anti-inflammatory a sleeping pill. 629 00:25:29,095 --> 00:25:33,301 And I remember, I'm not a doctor, so this 630 00:25:33,301 --> 00:25:34,861 is not medical advice, 631 00:25:35,861 --> 00:25:36,281 Rod Bland: Yep. 632 00:25:36,446 --> 00:25:37,436 Branden Densmore: I do talk about it. 633 00:25:37,506 --> 00:25:40,320 They offered me a medication called suboxone. 634 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,300 They call it an opiate replacement therapy. 635 00:25:45,170 --> 00:25:47,630 And from what I understand, this helps a lot of people. 636 00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:50,730 A lot of people who are addicted to heroin and 637 00:25:50,730 --> 00:25:54,420 other opiate substances, they prescribe this to them 638 00:25:54,420 --> 00:25:56,983 so that they can get off these other street drugs 639 00:25:57,013 --> 00:25:58,483 and other pharmaceuticals. 640 00:25:59,473 --> 00:26:02,435 But anyways I was in the midst of the worst 641 00:26:02,435 --> 00:26:07,215 part of the withdrawal and the psychiatrist 642 00:26:07,965 --> 00:26:09,345 offered me Suboxone. 643 00:26:10,345 --> 00:26:13,045 And I said, I knew what it was. 644 00:26:14,045 --> 00:26:15,275 It's actually an opiate. 645 00:26:16,275 --> 00:26:17,205 An opioid. 646 00:26:17,555 --> 00:26:18,765 It's a synthetic. 647 00:26:19,275 --> 00:26:21,638 But anyways I said, no. 648 00:26:22,568 --> 00:26:22,778 He 649 00:26:22,898 --> 00:26:23,978 Rod Bland: That must have been hard. 650 00:26:24,948 --> 00:26:25,308 Branden Densmore: that. 651 00:26:25,548 --> 00:26:28,758 It was a debate in my mind, do I take it? 652 00:26:28,763 --> 00:26:29,478 Do I not take it? 653 00:26:29,478 --> 00:26:30,018 Do I take it? 654 00:26:30,018 --> 00:26:30,783 Do I not take it? 655 00:26:30,788 --> 00:26:33,128 And I said, no, cuz I, I wanted it to be free. 656 00:26:34,128 --> 00:26:34,408 Rod Bland: Yep. 657 00:26:34,603 --> 00:26:36,853 Branden Densmore: And didn't wanna feed the dependency 658 00:26:36,853 --> 00:26:40,063 or become dependent on this opiate replacement therapy. 659 00:26:41,082 --> 00:26:42,852 He said, you need to reconsider Brandon. 660 00:26:43,852 --> 00:26:45,232 You need to reconsider that. 661 00:26:46,132 --> 00:26:47,692 Rod Bland: He didn't want you to fail based on the odds 662 00:26:47,692 --> 00:26:51,742 that he'd seen for people that had not taken the alternative. 663 00:26:51,862 --> 00:26:51,922 Yeah, 664 00:26:52,447 --> 00:26:53,677 Branden Densmore: Yes, exactly. 665 00:26:53,677 --> 00:26:54,037 Rod. 666 00:26:54,238 --> 00:26:57,788 He didn't want me to fall into the statistic, so he 667 00:26:57,793 --> 00:26:58,958 said, you need to reconsider. 668 00:26:59,198 --> 00:27:03,075 Do you realize that I think he said 95%. 669 00:27:04,075 --> 00:27:07,105 It might have been a higher percentage, but 95% of 670 00:27:07,105 --> 00:27:10,555 people in your situation will go back to the substance. 671 00:27:11,555 --> 00:27:12,045 Rod Bland: Yeah. 672 00:27:12,465 --> 00:27:13,575 So you're really against the odds. 673 00:27:14,575 --> 00:27:17,860 Branden Densmore: And I said, I guess I'm one of the 5%. 674 00:27:18,860 --> 00:27:19,100 No, 675 00:27:19,205 --> 00:27:20,945 Rod Bland: were confident at that point there. 676 00:27:20,963 --> 00:27:22,869 There was a moment, but you were really confident 677 00:27:22,879 --> 00:27:24,169 you were just gonna have to do it that way, 678 00:27:24,169 --> 00:27:25,279 whatever it was gonna take. 679 00:27:25,924 --> 00:27:26,314 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 680 00:27:27,314 --> 00:27:27,524 Yeah. 681 00:27:27,524 --> 00:27:32,004 And it goes back to like when I was pleading on the other 682 00:27:32,004 --> 00:27:35,800 side to live, send me back, I'll do whatever it takes. 683 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,340 Like I couldn't accept the drug because I knew 684 00:27:40,345 --> 00:27:41,390 where it was gonna lead. 685 00:27:42,390 --> 00:27:42,810 Rod Bland: Yeah. 686 00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:45,675 Branden Densmore: that's for me, like I'm not telling 687 00:27:45,675 --> 00:27:48,915 other people that's right for them necessarily, 688 00:27:48,915 --> 00:27:49,755 although it may be. 689 00:27:50,755 --> 00:27:53,455 But that would be something to seriously consider. 690 00:27:54,055 --> 00:27:56,785 Cuz I know people who are dependent on these opiate 691 00:27:56,785 --> 00:27:57,905 replacement therapies. 692 00:27:58,785 --> 00:28:02,048 And I'm glad from my personal life, my personal experience, 693 00:28:02,048 --> 00:28:05,858 my personal life that I said no, cuz I'm now I'm free. 694 00:28:06,358 --> 00:28:08,818 Rod Bland: So it was just you were in rehab for that seven 695 00:28:08,818 --> 00:28:11,863 day period and then they kind of let you loose after that. 696 00:28:11,863 --> 00:28:12,465 What happened after that? 697 00:28:13,110 --> 00:28:14,910 Branden Densmore: Yeah, they cut me loose after that. 698 00:28:14,945 --> 00:28:17,824 And then I went to an intensive outpatient 699 00:28:17,824 --> 00:28:19,244 program that's 700 00:28:19,244 --> 00:28:23,106 something that you just go to weekly as part of a group 701 00:28:24,106 --> 00:28:28,166 talking about addiction and how to recover and 702 00:28:28,226 --> 00:28:29,306 different things like that. 703 00:28:29,936 --> 00:28:32,876 I learned some good stuff there, but where I 704 00:28:32,876 --> 00:28:34,826 really got some relief. 705 00:28:35,711 --> 00:28:38,471 Because after coming off this medication, I was still 706 00:28:38,471 --> 00:28:42,677 full of like resentment to people in the past, including 707 00:28:42,677 --> 00:28:43,817 the guy who molested me, 708 00:28:44,674 --> 00:28:46,414 Rod Bland: So the physical withdrawal was one thing, 709 00:28:46,419 --> 00:28:48,994 the mental side of things was something else. 710 00:28:49,024 --> 00:28:49,264 Yeah. 711 00:28:49,324 --> 00:28:49,684 Branden Densmore: yeah. 712 00:28:49,984 --> 00:28:53,254 And almost worse, really the mental emotional piece 713 00:28:53,254 --> 00:28:54,544 was worse than the physical. 714 00:28:55,544 --> 00:28:58,243 And even after, the drug was gone out of my system, 715 00:28:58,783 --> 00:29:03,383 that emotional, mental aspect was just raw. 716 00:29:03,383 --> 00:29:07,133 Full of resentments from the kids at school, from the guy 717 00:29:07,133 --> 00:29:10,803 who molested me toward the religion that I was raised in. 718 00:29:10,803 --> 00:29:14,014 All of these different aspects of resentment 719 00:29:14,194 --> 00:29:17,473 and fear and negative thinking about myself, am 720 00:29:17,473 --> 00:29:20,926 I good enough comparing myself to other people? 721 00:29:20,926 --> 00:29:21,736 All this stuff. 722 00:29:22,471 --> 00:29:22,961 Rod Bland: Yeah. 723 00:29:22,966 --> 00:29:25,201 You had plenty of reasons to be bitter at the world. 724 00:29:25,981 --> 00:29:26,431 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 725 00:29:26,671 --> 00:29:26,941 Yeah, 726 00:29:26,991 --> 00:29:27,801 Rod Bland: of good reasons. 727 00:29:27,861 --> 00:29:28,191 Yeah. 728 00:29:28,881 --> 00:29:29,941 Branden Densmore: Bitter and afraid. 729 00:29:30,441 --> 00:29:31,539 Rod Bland: But you knew that was getting in the 730 00:29:31,544 --> 00:29:35,189 way of you being, fulfilled in your life and you had 731 00:29:35,189 --> 00:29:36,059 to do something about it. 732 00:29:36,126 --> 00:29:36,366 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 733 00:29:36,366 --> 00:29:38,157 At that point I was not happy. 734 00:29:38,718 --> 00:29:43,098 Like I was miserable and I knew that I needed to find 735 00:29:43,098 --> 00:29:44,598 a way to deal with this, 736 00:29:45,108 --> 00:29:49,038 cuz if I didn't, I was gonna probably end up going back out 737 00:29:49,038 --> 00:29:50,538 and using the substance again. 738 00:29:51,561 --> 00:29:57,738 I had a gaping void in my life and I needed to find a way to 739 00:29:57,738 --> 00:30:02,848 fill it and to deal with all of these emotions and inner 740 00:30:02,848 --> 00:30:04,138 turmoil that was going on. 741 00:30:05,138 --> 00:30:07,568 And that's when I started going to Alcoholics 742 00:30:07,568 --> 00:30:08,648 Anonymous meetings. 743 00:30:09,648 --> 00:30:10,138 Rod Bland: Okay. 744 00:30:10,173 --> 00:30:11,493 Branden Densmore: My drug of choice wasn't really 745 00:30:11,493 --> 00:30:14,897 alcohol, but I lied. 746 00:30:15,527 --> 00:30:17,607 I, and I said that I had an alcohol problem 747 00:30:18,052 --> 00:30:18,777 Rod Bland: Did you have an idea 748 00:30:18,807 --> 00:30:20,517 That, did you learn about the framework? 749 00:30:20,847 --> 00:30:23,247 That's like with the 12 steps you thought That's what I need 750 00:30:23,252 --> 00:30:24,677 and so I need to get in there? 751 00:30:24,735 --> 00:30:27,471 Branden Densmore: No I started going and what happened 752 00:30:27,476 --> 00:30:30,973 was, I needed a support group, people to talk to. 753 00:30:31,973 --> 00:30:34,003 That's why I originally went. 754 00:30:35,003 --> 00:30:38,516 And I knew that I had all these emotional problems 755 00:30:38,576 --> 00:30:41,761 and self-esteem issues, et cetera, and I needed 756 00:30:41,761 --> 00:30:42,856 people to talk to about it. 757 00:30:42,856 --> 00:30:45,136 So anyways, I started going to these meetings. 758 00:30:46,081 --> 00:30:52,111 And I saw that, wow, there are people here with incredible 759 00:30:52,111 --> 00:30:56,188 substance abuse stories with alcohol, and they're laughing. 760 00:30:57,188 --> 00:30:57,938 They're happy. 761 00:30:57,968 --> 00:30:59,948 They've made friends, they're talking with each 762 00:30:59,948 --> 00:31:02,498 other, they're laid back, they're comfortable. 763 00:31:03,013 --> 00:31:05,858 So that's when I realized, okay, there's 764 00:31:05,858 --> 00:31:06,948 something going on here. 765 00:31:06,952 --> 00:31:11,312 It was evidence to me that there was a solution to the 766 00:31:11,312 --> 00:31:14,875 inner turmoil and stuff that I had going on the inside. 767 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,410 Rod Bland: Yeah, this kind of clicked. 768 00:31:18,175 --> 00:31:20,618 Branden Densmore: It clicked and I had found 769 00:31:20,618 --> 00:31:23,438 a sponsor and then worked through the 12 steps. 770 00:31:23,964 --> 00:31:27,154 So it was a gradual process. 771 00:31:28,154 --> 00:31:29,114 But let's see. 772 00:31:29,114 --> 00:31:34,611 So when I had that overdose experience I had no friends, 773 00:31:35,111 --> 00:31:38,856 false friends, people who were there just to take 774 00:31:39,056 --> 00:31:40,986 advantage of me in my life. 775 00:31:41,556 --> 00:31:45,238 I went from no friends no money in the bank, 776 00:31:45,753 --> 00:31:50,423 brokenhearted, no self-confidence, full 777 00:31:50,423 --> 00:31:52,283 of resentment, fear 778 00:31:53,285 --> 00:31:54,405 Rod Bland: pretty crappy life at that point. 779 00:31:54,735 --> 00:31:57,365 Branden Densmore: yeah, I was low down, like low 780 00:31:57,755 --> 00:31:59,812 in life and no vehicle. 781 00:31:59,818 --> 00:32:04,339 To now I'm married to a wonderful, beautiful woman. 782 00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:05,529 I had a son. 783 00:32:06,529 --> 00:32:09,529 Who's eight months old, who I love dearly. 784 00:32:10,529 --> 00:32:11,939 I have money in the bank. 785 00:32:12,839 --> 00:32:14,249 I started a business. 786 00:32:15,249 --> 00:32:18,379 I bought a car, I bought a house. 787 00:32:19,339 --> 00:32:20,809 I have a beautiful garden. 788 00:32:21,809 --> 00:32:25,589 I'm full of confidence, self-esteem. 789 00:32:26,589 --> 00:32:27,489 I love my life. 790 00:32:27,489 --> 00:32:31,519 I have real friends, and I'm living the kind of a 791 00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:33,259 reality that I was shown. 792 00:32:34,259 --> 00:32:37,619 Now, whether or not that was that future reality where I 793 00:32:37,619 --> 00:32:41,369 didn't exist was the actual future, or not, I can't say, 794 00:32:42,284 --> 00:32:42,774 Rod Bland: Yeah, 795 00:32:43,774 --> 00:32:44,914 Branden Densmore: but I'm living. 796 00:32:45,844 --> 00:32:50,718 Living like I feel like I was supposed to live, the 797 00:32:50,718 --> 00:32:52,338 life that God intended. 798 00:32:53,118 --> 00:32:54,768 Rod Bland: sorry, Brandon, to interrupt you. 799 00:32:54,783 --> 00:32:57,322 What strikes me is that there's this resolve about 800 00:32:57,322 --> 00:33:00,639 you and this there's some confidence that I can't 801 00:33:00,639 --> 00:33:01,569 quite put my finger on, 802 00:33:01,569 --> 00:33:04,429 but it's almost because you had those previous experiences 803 00:33:04,429 --> 00:33:08,059 that the person that you are now has so much more 804 00:33:08,059 --> 00:33:12,848 vigor and it's almost like a ruthlessness for life, and 805 00:33:12,848 --> 00:33:14,117 it just comes out of you. 806 00:33:14,117 --> 00:33:16,384 You think that is, is that how you feel? 807 00:33:17,329 --> 00:33:19,949 Branden Densmore: That's an awesome way of describing it. 808 00:33:20,449 --> 00:33:23,609 Like a ruthlessness for life. 809 00:33:24,314 --> 00:33:24,824 Rod Bland: Yeah. 810 00:33:25,229 --> 00:33:25,649 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 811 00:33:25,649 --> 00:33:26,039 It 812 00:33:26,204 --> 00:33:27,674 Rod Bland: Like you're not gonna waste another second. 813 00:33:28,529 --> 00:33:30,089 Branden Densmore: Exactly, yeah. 814 00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:32,412 When I was talking with my sponsor and going through the 815 00:33:32,412 --> 00:33:35,175 12 steps there was a point where, I didn't want to be 816 00:33:35,175 --> 00:33:36,235 in any other relationship. 817 00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:38,319 Like a romantic relationship 818 00:33:39,319 --> 00:33:41,599 because I had so many failed romantic 819 00:33:41,599 --> 00:33:43,849 relationships from the past and a lot of resentment 820 00:33:43,849 --> 00:33:45,019 toward ex-girlfriends. 821 00:33:45,989 --> 00:33:48,399 And I told my sponsor, I don't want to get into 822 00:33:48,399 --> 00:33:50,869 another relationship cuz I'm afraid of being hurt. 823 00:33:51,369 --> 00:33:52,809 He said, that's no way to live. 824 00:33:53,809 --> 00:33:56,149 You, you don't want to be in a romantic relationship because 825 00:33:56,154 --> 00:33:57,589 you're afraid of being hurt. 826 00:33:58,219 --> 00:33:59,419 That's no way to live. 827 00:33:59,837 --> 00:34:00,587 Rod Bland: That's a bit of tough love 828 00:34:00,587 --> 00:34:01,437 right there, isn't it? 829 00:34:01,907 --> 00:34:04,967 Branden Densmore: it is like it to, you need to be willing 830 00:34:04,967 --> 00:34:08,627 to be hurt, to open up your heart, be willing to be hurt, 831 00:34:09,467 --> 00:34:11,657 to experience the fullness of life 832 00:34:12,787 --> 00:34:17,537 instead of living afraid and trying to protect, to live 833 00:34:17,537 --> 00:34:19,967 in a little box and protect myself from the world. 834 00:34:20,988 --> 00:34:24,084 But to have the fullness the full experience of 835 00:34:24,084 --> 00:34:25,414 what life has to offer. 836 00:34:25,914 --> 00:34:28,975 Rod Bland: So how did you, I dunno whether overcome is 837 00:34:28,980 --> 00:34:30,804 the right word, but there's the bitterness and the 838 00:34:30,804 --> 00:34:34,284 resentments for people that have wronged you in your life. 839 00:34:35,184 --> 00:34:37,314 And like I said, you had plenty of reasons to do that. 840 00:34:37,344 --> 00:34:39,414 How did you get to the point where you go, okay, 841 00:34:40,344 --> 00:34:42,698 did you just realize that was poisoning your life 842 00:34:42,698 --> 00:34:43,898 and you had to let them go? 843 00:34:43,962 --> 00:34:44,452 Is that what you got to? 844 00:34:45,312 --> 00:34:45,652 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 845 00:34:46,152 --> 00:34:48,813 I realized that that these underlying things were 846 00:34:48,813 --> 00:34:51,705 really the cause, the root of the addiction. 847 00:34:52,205 --> 00:34:54,335 Because I would take these medications in order 848 00:34:54,335 --> 00:34:55,895 to numb the feelings. 849 00:34:56,959 --> 00:34:59,712 And to obliterate the thinking that was happening in my mind 850 00:35:00,132 --> 00:35:01,522 around some of these issues. 851 00:35:02,022 --> 00:35:05,882 So I needed to, I needed a solution to addiction, 852 00:35:06,882 --> 00:35:10,616 a solution where I no longer had to have this as a problem 853 00:35:11,336 --> 00:35:14,786 where I could move on with my life and live a full 854 00:35:14,791 --> 00:35:17,936 life experiencing everything that life had to offer. 855 00:35:18,656 --> 00:35:20,529 But my life was on the line too. 856 00:35:20,570 --> 00:35:22,440 For me, it was a matter of life and death. 857 00:35:22,940 --> 00:35:25,070 So I desperately needed a solution. 858 00:35:25,100 --> 00:35:29,100 I found the right sponsor, someone who really knew their 859 00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:33,610 stuff, someone who really knew the material and the method 860 00:35:34,540 --> 00:35:37,700 from Alcoholics Anonymous, which I mean, alcoholics 861 00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:39,215 Anonymous, it saved my life. 862 00:35:39,665 --> 00:35:41,435 Not to say that this organization doesn't 863 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:42,465 have its problems. 864 00:35:42,965 --> 00:35:47,655 Not to say that the philosophy doesn't have issues of 865 00:35:47,655 --> 00:35:52,475 Alcoholics Anonymous, but it did save my life cuz it 866 00:35:52,475 --> 00:35:54,785 gave me that, it gave me what I needed in the moment 867 00:35:55,785 --> 00:35:59,815 and it gave me a process that I could use to really 868 00:35:59,815 --> 00:36:02,995 face these inner demons that were driving the addiction. 869 00:36:03,995 --> 00:36:06,995 Rod Bland: So how did you actually integrate 870 00:36:06,995 --> 00:36:10,439 some of those, those terrible experiences? 871 00:36:10,517 --> 00:36:12,077 I'm sure there's something where people are wondering, 872 00:36:12,077 --> 00:36:13,803 who have been through a similar experience to go I 873 00:36:13,803 --> 00:36:15,933 can't possibly forgive that person for what they did. 874 00:36:16,016 --> 00:36:17,876 How did you manage to integrate that into your life 875 00:36:17,876 --> 00:36:19,376 where you got to the point where it's not something 876 00:36:19,390 --> 00:36:20,781 that's a problem for you? 877 00:36:21,246 --> 00:36:21,606 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 878 00:36:22,446 --> 00:36:24,606 So I was coaching somebody about this the other day. 879 00:36:24,610 --> 00:36:28,689 And forgiveness doesn't mean that you're opening 880 00:36:28,689 --> 00:36:30,729 yourself up to being abused. 881 00:36:31,069 --> 00:36:34,075 Like this idea of turn the other cheek so that the, 882 00:36:34,375 --> 00:36:38,815 when Jesus said that, it was like you get slapped and then 883 00:36:38,815 --> 00:36:42,502 you turn the other cheek and it's a, like biblical saying. 884 00:36:42,682 --> 00:36:44,692 So in other words, slap me again. 885 00:36:45,692 --> 00:36:47,552 But that's not what forgiveness is. 886 00:36:48,552 --> 00:36:52,215 So if, yeah, if you're being abused, you don't 887 00:36:52,215 --> 00:36:56,155 wanna allow yourself to continue to be abused, right? 888 00:36:57,155 --> 00:36:59,443 Oh I'm in an abusive relationship and I'm 889 00:36:59,443 --> 00:37:02,323 gonna forgive the person that's abusing me. 890 00:37:03,133 --> 00:37:05,663 And it just allow them to continue abusing you. 891 00:37:06,163 --> 00:37:07,363 That's not forgiveness. 892 00:37:08,363 --> 00:37:11,783 So first you have to be ready and willing and open. 893 00:37:12,706 --> 00:37:15,782 I had to practice forgiveness because my life was on the 894 00:37:15,782 --> 00:37:21,702 line and I couldn't allow myself to die and my mother 895 00:37:21,707 --> 00:37:22,812 to find that dead body. 896 00:37:23,812 --> 00:37:24,052 Rod Bland: Yep. 897 00:37:24,142 --> 00:37:25,462 Branden Densmore: I had, I was motivated. 898 00:37:26,462 --> 00:37:27,242 I was motivated. 899 00:37:27,693 --> 00:37:29,343 So I would say the first thing, you 900 00:37:29,343 --> 00:37:30,363 need to be motivated, 901 00:37:30,918 --> 00:37:35,638 but I had turned into an angry person and I didn't 902 00:37:35,878 --> 00:37:37,558 want to live that way anymore. 903 00:37:38,558 --> 00:37:41,828 On another show, I was talking with someone and he's, we 904 00:37:41,828 --> 00:37:43,538 were talking about road rage. 905 00:37:44,538 --> 00:37:45,028 Rod Bland: Yeah. 906 00:37:46,028 --> 00:37:48,218 Branden Densmore: So someone would cut me off in traffic 907 00:37:48,608 --> 00:37:53,457 and I'd get ripped oh, that, what is this guy thinking? 908 00:37:53,457 --> 00:37:53,744 Uh, Da. 909 00:37:53,776 --> 00:37:54,804 Flip them the finger. 910 00:37:55,619 --> 00:37:56,009 Rod Bland: Yeah. 911 00:37:56,159 --> 00:37:57,639 That was your standard operating procedure. 912 00:37:58,156 --> 00:37:58,576 Branden Densmore: right? 913 00:37:59,522 --> 00:38:04,635 But anger had become a lifestyle just irritated 914 00:38:05,202 --> 00:38:07,182 at little annoyances. 915 00:38:08,182 --> 00:38:10,642 But what I didn't realize is that I had become an 916 00:38:10,647 --> 00:38:15,182 angry person, and that was a lifestyle and that the anger 917 00:38:15,182 --> 00:38:18,492 was coming out sideways. 918 00:38:19,492 --> 00:38:23,076 It was being expressed toward these little annoyances, 919 00:38:23,826 --> 00:38:26,236 but those little annoyances weren't really the problem. 920 00:38:26,736 --> 00:38:30,636 Because I had anger inside of me at a really 921 00:38:30,636 --> 00:38:31,866 fundamental level. 922 00:38:32,791 --> 00:38:35,041 Being sexually molested at eight years old is 923 00:38:35,041 --> 00:38:36,661 enough to make you angry. 924 00:38:36,722 --> 00:38:39,596 But it was coming out in my life in ways that I 925 00:38:39,596 --> 00:38:43,466 didn't realize the root cause and that I had become 926 00:38:43,466 --> 00:38:45,386 an angry kind of person. 927 00:38:45,389 --> 00:38:46,979 What I'm trying to illustrate is the 928 00:38:46,984 --> 00:38:48,509 importance of forgiveness, 929 00:38:48,550 --> 00:38:50,826 Because if we hold onto this kind of anger, 930 00:38:51,326 --> 00:38:52,856 we've become angry people 931 00:38:53,856 --> 00:38:54,216 Rod Bland: Yep. 932 00:38:54,726 --> 00:38:57,006 Branden Densmore: and it comes out in unexpected ways. 933 00:38:58,006 --> 00:39:00,953 Rod Bland: Yeah, so it's more, it's for you, the 934 00:39:00,953 --> 00:39:04,343 forgiveness is for you so that you don't have to be angry. 935 00:39:04,910 --> 00:39:05,210 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 936 00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:06,570 Rod Bland: Yeah, 937 00:39:07,570 --> 00:39:08,830 Branden Densmore: And I think it, it even 938 00:39:08,830 --> 00:39:10,000 goes beyond that too. 939 00:39:10,660 --> 00:39:13,090 Like it's for you so that you can live a better life 940 00:39:14,020 --> 00:39:14,200 Rod Bland: yeah. 941 00:39:15,130 --> 00:39:16,450 Branden Densmore: so that you can have better 942 00:39:16,455 --> 00:39:20,700 emotions or more enjoyable, 943 00:39:21,450 --> 00:39:22,140 Rod Bland: Better quality. 944 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:23,772 Branden Densmore: worse, maybe that's the wrong 945 00:39:23,772 --> 00:39:26,382 way to describe it, but a more enjoyable experience. 946 00:39:26,423 --> 00:39:26,633 Rod Bland: Yeah. 947 00:39:26,633 --> 00:39:28,462 This is it's not anywhere at the same level, but 948 00:39:28,462 --> 00:39:29,752 it's a conversation. 949 00:39:29,757 --> 00:39:32,014 I can remember having this with my wife a while ago, 950 00:39:32,254 --> 00:39:37,286 and talking about previous partners and wrongs, that have 951 00:39:37,286 --> 00:39:40,756 been done, and she couldn't quite understand at the 952 00:39:40,761 --> 00:39:43,166 time why I wasn't angrier. 953 00:39:43,276 --> 00:39:45,128 And I had to think about it and thought I just 954 00:39:45,128 --> 00:39:46,748 don't like carrying around that vibration. 955 00:39:46,776 --> 00:39:49,844 You can't be angry at someone and not be angry, it's like 956 00:39:49,844 --> 00:39:50,774 you carry that with you. 957 00:39:50,774 --> 00:39:52,429 I don't want that to be in my life. 958 00:39:52,449 --> 00:39:55,209 I don't want that to be part of my interactions with you. 959 00:39:55,209 --> 00:39:57,355 I don't want us to be part of my interactions with my kids. 960 00:39:57,355 --> 00:39:58,600 That's why I'm not angry. 961 00:39:58,650 --> 00:40:01,110 It's not because I approve of what has been done, 962 00:40:01,410 --> 00:40:03,750 it's just I don't wanna be that kind of person. 963 00:40:04,170 --> 00:40:05,670 There's gotta be another way to deal with it. 964 00:40:06,213 --> 00:40:06,513 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 965 00:40:06,853 --> 00:40:08,127 Say that last sentence again. 966 00:40:08,127 --> 00:40:11,487 You said that you didn't want it to affect your children. 967 00:40:12,245 --> 00:40:12,485 Rod Bland: Yeah. 968 00:40:12,515 --> 00:40:13,835 I didn't want that vibration. 969 00:40:14,055 --> 00:40:15,630 Emotions are like vibrations, right? 970 00:40:15,630 --> 00:40:16,410 Everything's got energy. 971 00:40:16,410 --> 00:40:18,168 So I think if I'm gonna be angry about something, then 972 00:40:18,168 --> 00:40:21,558 that's gonna impact not just, I'm not just directing anger 973 00:40:21,563 --> 00:40:22,668 at one particular person. 974 00:40:22,673 --> 00:40:24,558 It's part of my being, right? 975 00:40:24,738 --> 00:40:27,078 So it's gonna impact my children, it's gonna impact my 976 00:40:27,648 --> 00:40:28,968 other relationships as well. 977 00:40:29,178 --> 00:40:29,868 Do I want that? 978 00:40:29,908 --> 00:40:33,138 Branden Densmore: and it's tough too, Rod, cuz like we're 979 00:40:33,138 --> 00:40:34,548 not taught how to forgive. 980 00:40:35,328 --> 00:40:35,628 Rod Bland: Yeah. 981 00:40:36,378 --> 00:40:38,423 Branden Densmore: And when you have like significant 982 00:40:38,428 --> 00:40:42,083 traumatic experiences, it makes it even more difficult. 983 00:40:43,081 --> 00:40:46,201 So we're not only not taught how to forgive or 984 00:40:46,201 --> 00:40:47,381 what forgiveness even is. 985 00:40:47,406 --> 00:40:50,526 When it's a traumatic incidence, that makes even 986 00:40:50,556 --> 00:40:54,486 the method more difficult, like even harder to let go, 987 00:40:54,986 --> 00:40:55,256 Rod Bland: Yep. 988 00:40:56,216 --> 00:40:56,546 Yep. 989 00:40:57,041 --> 00:40:57,881 Branden Densmore: and then it becomes 990 00:40:57,966 --> 00:40:58,589 internalized. 991 00:40:58,634 --> 00:40:59,474 Rod Bland: the Olympic system. 992 00:40:59,474 --> 00:41:02,924 It's like that base, that very lizard part of your brain, and 993 00:41:03,674 --> 00:41:06,254 there's really no reasoning or logic that you can apply 994 00:41:06,816 --> 00:41:07,296 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 995 00:41:07,821 --> 00:41:09,051 Rod Bland: those deep emotions. 996 00:41:09,111 --> 00:41:09,411 Yeah. 997 00:41:10,296 --> 00:41:13,096 Branden Densmore: But you have to be ready to let it go. 998 00:41:13,096 --> 00:41:16,530 And it doesn't mean that you're condoning whatever 999 00:41:16,530 --> 00:41:19,290 it is, the kind of actions that have happened 1000 00:41:19,404 --> 00:41:20,934 Doesn't mean you're condoning it. 1001 00:41:20,998 --> 00:41:23,472 But it can be a tough pill to swallow. 1002 00:41:23,582 --> 00:41:26,702 When I was, so I was sexually molested at eight years 1003 00:41:26,812 --> 00:41:30,132 old, and when I confronted that particular resentment, 1004 00:41:30,632 --> 00:41:31,562 Toward this person. 1005 00:41:32,282 --> 00:41:36,012 I had a conversation with my sponsor and it was step 1006 00:41:36,102 --> 00:41:40,102 four and five in Alcoholics Anonymous, and I had already 1007 00:41:40,107 --> 00:41:44,872 gone through the previous steps and I said a prayer. 1008 00:41:45,872 --> 00:41:49,514 But so I talked with my sponsor and oh man, I have 1009 00:41:49,514 --> 00:41:52,514 a lot of different thoughts coming that I want to express. 1010 00:41:53,514 --> 00:41:53,864 Rod Bland: go 1011 00:41:54,419 --> 00:41:55,649 Branden Densmore: One thing I forgot to mention, you 1012 00:41:55,649 --> 00:41:58,259 were talking about how forgiveness is for yourself 1013 00:41:59,259 --> 00:42:00,519 and it is, that's true. 1014 00:42:01,370 --> 00:42:03,045 But it's also for the world 1015 00:42:03,545 --> 00:42:04,035 Rod Bland: Yeah. 1016 00:42:05,035 --> 00:42:07,135 Branden Densmore: you changed, like you said, your vibration, 1017 00:42:08,135 --> 00:42:09,515 which has a ripple effect. 1018 00:42:10,515 --> 00:42:12,629 So when you're no longer, an angry person, 1019 00:42:12,689 --> 00:42:13,709 Rod Bland: that's what the world needs. 1020 00:42:14,609 --> 00:42:16,100 Branden Densmore: But, so let's where was 1021 00:42:16,100 --> 00:42:17,210 I going before that? 1022 00:42:17,210 --> 00:42:18,110 I made that point? 1023 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,780 Cause I really just, I wanted to say that. 1024 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:21,980 Rod Bland: Yeah. 1025 00:42:22,490 --> 00:42:22,820 Yeah. 1026 00:42:22,858 --> 00:42:24,218 You were just talking about forgiveness. 1027 00:42:24,218 --> 00:42:25,568 You're having the conversation with your 1028 00:42:25,568 --> 00:42:27,608 sponsor, steps four and five. 1029 00:42:28,328 --> 00:42:28,898 Branden Densmore: Yes. 1030 00:42:28,988 --> 00:42:30,204 So thank you. 1031 00:42:30,212 --> 00:42:33,242 was having a conversation with my sponsor and I told 1032 00:42:33,242 --> 00:42:36,714 him about the sexual abuse and he said, okay, so 1033 00:42:36,834 --> 00:42:38,996 first of all, I'm really sorry that happened to you. 1034 00:42:39,496 --> 00:42:40,606 I said, okay, thank you. 1035 00:42:41,606 --> 00:42:43,946 And he said, that should never happen to a child. 1036 00:42:44,946 --> 00:42:46,666 And that's a really, you know, terrible 1037 00:42:46,671 --> 00:42:47,956 thing to have to endure. 1038 00:42:48,456 --> 00:42:50,196 Okay, thank you for recognizing that. 1039 00:42:50,946 --> 00:42:54,226 And then he said, but you've been holding onto this. 1040 00:42:54,676 --> 00:42:55,756 You're an adult now. 1041 00:42:56,793 --> 00:42:59,907 And you've been holding onto this for 20 years. 1042 00:43:00,407 --> 00:43:02,897 I said, yeah, I've been holding onto it for 20 1043 00:43:02,897 --> 00:43:05,130 years and never resolved it. 1044 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,058 And he said did you ever consider that maybe he had 1045 00:43:09,058 --> 00:43:10,718 been sexually molested? 1046 00:43:11,218 --> 00:43:13,738 And I said, no, I never thought about that. 1047 00:43:14,638 --> 00:43:18,845 He said usually when a kid sexually molests another kid. 1048 00:43:18,935 --> 00:43:20,977 So this guy that sexually molested me, I 1049 00:43:20,982 --> 00:43:22,657 believe he was 15, 16, 1050 00:43:22,752 --> 00:43:23,562 And I was eight. 1051 00:43:23,742 --> 00:43:26,902 He said, he must have learned that from somewhere. 1052 00:43:27,402 --> 00:43:31,422 Most people learned that kind of behavior from somewhere. 1053 00:43:31,812 --> 00:43:33,644 And I said I never thought about that. 1054 00:43:33,654 --> 00:43:37,789 Here I was, addicted to, to opiate medications. 1055 00:43:38,269 --> 00:43:42,619 I had died cuz I was full of being driven by resentment, 1056 00:43:42,619 --> 00:43:44,329 fear, anger, et cetera. 1057 00:43:44,959 --> 00:43:47,479 Low self-esteem, inner chatter. 1058 00:43:48,479 --> 00:43:50,489 I was being driven by that and the addiction 1059 00:43:50,489 --> 00:43:51,659 was being fueled by that. 1060 00:43:51,659 --> 00:43:55,889 And I had died and it had been 20 years since this incident 1061 00:43:55,894 --> 00:44:01,329 happened and I had never once considered that maybe he 1062 00:44:01,329 --> 00:44:02,709 had been sexually molested. 1063 00:44:03,709 --> 00:44:05,542 Not once in 20 years. 1064 00:44:06,042 --> 00:44:06,372 Okay. 1065 00:44:06,372 --> 00:44:07,992 Yeah, no, I've never considered that. 1066 00:44:08,022 --> 00:44:08,382 Okay. 1067 00:44:08,442 --> 00:44:10,812 He said, don't you think that's a little self-centered? 1068 00:44:11,812 --> 00:44:12,232 Rod Bland: Ooh. 1069 00:44:13,232 --> 00:44:15,822 Branden Densmore: I was like self-centered. 1070 00:44:16,822 --> 00:44:18,592 I'm the one that was sexually molested. 1071 00:44:19,592 --> 00:44:21,182 But I have realized he had a point. 1072 00:44:22,182 --> 00:44:25,842 Because I was all wrapped up in what happened to me, 1073 00:44:26,842 --> 00:44:31,022 what this person did to me, how I feel about it. 1074 00:44:31,532 --> 00:44:33,832 I was hurt, I was victimized. 1075 00:44:34,832 --> 00:44:36,152 And what did that lead to? 1076 00:44:36,152 --> 00:44:38,012 That led to my opiate addiction. 1077 00:44:38,012 --> 00:44:40,022 That led to me passing away. 1078 00:44:41,022 --> 00:44:43,736 Being a slave to this substance, but I was 1079 00:44:43,736 --> 00:44:44,936 being self-centered. 1080 00:44:45,936 --> 00:44:46,506 Why? 1081 00:44:46,896 --> 00:44:51,396 Because I was holding onto this resentment without 1082 00:44:51,396 --> 00:44:56,676 giving one thought, not one thought to what this other 1083 00:44:56,676 --> 00:45:00,666 person who abused me might have gone through as a child. 1084 00:45:01,531 --> 00:45:05,641 Never even considered it in 20 years. 1085 00:45:06,286 --> 00:45:09,076 That this guy, maybe he was sexually molested when 1086 00:45:09,076 --> 00:45:11,866 he was a little child, an innocent little defenseless 1087 00:45:11,866 --> 00:45:13,846 child, never considered it. 1088 00:45:14,887 --> 00:45:18,676 So that kind of gave me pause to think for 1089 00:45:18,706 --> 00:45:19,496 a minute about it. 1090 00:45:19,996 --> 00:45:21,226 So he said, don't you think that's a little 1091 00:45:21,226 --> 00:45:22,066 bit self-centered? 1092 00:45:22,066 --> 00:45:24,716 And I said, I guess maybe. 1093 00:45:24,896 --> 00:45:28,336 And then he was like would, if you knew that he had been 1094 00:45:28,336 --> 00:45:31,008 sexually molested, would that cause you to have a little 1095 00:45:31,008 --> 00:45:33,388 bit of compassion toward him? 1096 00:45:34,388 --> 00:45:37,898 And then I imagined that maybe he had been sexually molested. 1097 00:45:38,898 --> 00:45:42,628 And then I did have a feeling of compassion and 1098 00:45:42,628 --> 00:45:45,118 that was the beginning of being able to let it go. 1099 00:45:46,118 --> 00:45:50,516 Like realizing that I had been holding onto this thing and 1100 00:45:50,516 --> 00:45:53,726 that it was self-centered, gave me a little, I 1101 00:45:53,731 --> 00:45:55,836 had to overcome myself, 1102 00:45:56,879 --> 00:46:00,929 Get out of my own way, if that makes sense. 1103 00:46:01,684 --> 00:46:02,044 Rod Bland: Yeah. 1104 00:46:02,824 --> 00:46:05,210 So it was an aha moment, but it was a small, 1105 00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:06,050 it was a beginning. 1106 00:46:06,055 --> 00:46:07,850 It wasn't like a gone all of a sudden. 1107 00:46:07,850 --> 00:46:10,340 It was just, that's how you were able to start and 1108 00:46:11,325 --> 00:46:11,715 Branden Densmore: Yep. 1109 00:46:11,805 --> 00:46:15,580 And then I had a prayer that I would say every day. 1110 00:46:16,610 --> 00:46:18,810 We could talk a lot about forgiveness. 1111 00:46:19,310 --> 00:46:22,853 There's a lot of different aspects to it and the process. 1112 00:46:23,813 --> 00:46:25,763 I don't know if you wanna spend that, that much time 1113 00:46:25,763 --> 00:46:26,973 on the show talking about it. 1114 00:46:26,983 --> 00:46:30,040 Rod Bland: I've got about 15 minutes, so yeah, it's 1115 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,597 really what's valuable to the viewers, so I think 1116 00:46:32,597 --> 00:46:33,407 it would be valuable. 1117 00:46:33,457 --> 00:46:33,719 Branden Densmore: Okay. 1118 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,442 Let's see, what else could I say about forgiveness? 1119 00:46:35,447 --> 00:46:37,273 So letting it go. 1120 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,016 And people say how do you forgive? 1121 00:46:40,577 --> 00:46:42,857 How do you forgive someone who sexually molested you? 1122 00:46:43,857 --> 00:46:47,692 In Alcoholics Anonymous, they teach us that people are 1123 00:46:47,692 --> 00:46:50,194 sick, like spiritually ill. 1124 00:46:51,194 --> 00:46:57,795 So seeing the abuser as a sick person, and that we can 1125 00:46:57,805 --> 00:47:03,265 forgive the offense that a person does to us because 1126 00:47:03,265 --> 00:47:07,355 we realize that they are sick and that even though 1127 00:47:07,355 --> 00:47:10,745 they have offended us, that they're really on a 1128 00:47:11,215 --> 00:47:12,965 spiritual level, a friend. 1129 00:47:13,965 --> 00:47:17,025 Somewhere inside of the person is like a pure spirit 1130 00:47:18,025 --> 00:47:21,155 or spiritual being, somewhere. 1131 00:47:22,155 --> 00:47:26,365 Even if we can't see it, there's a pure soul there. 1132 00:47:27,365 --> 00:47:30,196 But it's been distorted because they're 1133 00:47:30,196 --> 00:47:32,056 ill, they're sick. 1134 00:47:32,591 --> 00:47:37,331 So getting in touch with compassion for other people 1135 00:47:38,331 --> 00:47:41,001 and it, like I said before, it's a bitter pill to swallow. 1136 00:47:41,501 --> 00:47:43,434 Rod Bland: Yeah, it's a lot easier to go that 1137 00:47:43,434 --> 00:47:45,724 person or what they did is demonic in, in a way. 1138 00:47:46,209 --> 00:47:48,909 For want of a better term, as opposed to 1139 00:47:49,389 --> 00:47:52,814 they're ill and sick and Yeah it's a way forward. 1140 00:47:53,504 --> 00:47:53,864 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 1141 00:47:53,984 --> 00:47:54,914 It's a way forward. 1142 00:47:55,179 --> 00:47:57,634 And it's tough with the kind of world that we live in 1143 00:47:58,624 --> 00:47:58,744 Rod Bland: Yeah. 1144 00:47:59,308 --> 00:48:00,838 Branden Densmore: with all of the terrible 1145 00:48:00,843 --> 00:48:02,038 atrocities that happen. 1146 00:48:03,038 --> 00:48:08,128 But I had held onto this thing for 20 years and it 1147 00:48:08,133 --> 00:48:12,188 was driving my behavior and it had transformed 1148 00:48:12,188 --> 00:48:15,668 me into an angry person living an angry lifestyle. 1149 00:48:16,218 --> 00:48:18,288 I needed to find a way to really let it go. 1150 00:48:18,618 --> 00:48:21,468 I think a lot of people are in this kind of a situation now. 1151 00:48:21,473 --> 00:48:25,270 This doesn't mean that that his behavior was ex excused, 1152 00:48:25,770 --> 00:48:29,680 that I'm excusing his behavior by forgiving him. 1153 00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:31,910 That's not what this is about. 1154 00:48:32,425 --> 00:48:32,755 Rod Bland: Yep. 1155 00:48:33,355 --> 00:48:35,065 He just reframing it in a way. 1156 00:48:36,065 --> 00:48:37,902 Branden Densmore: It's not his behavior was right. 1157 00:48:38,402 --> 00:48:41,612 But when you understand that we've come from that we're 1158 00:48:41,922 --> 00:48:45,164 I look at it like this, is that we're essentially apes. 1159 00:48:45,664 --> 00:48:47,261 Like we have we're animals. 1160 00:48:47,291 --> 00:48:52,451 Spiritual beings, animals are spiritual beings, but we're 1161 00:48:52,451 --> 00:48:56,318 essentially animals that have animal ape-like behavior. 1162 00:48:56,648 --> 00:48:59,408 And you see this kind of thing, domestic abuse, 1163 00:49:00,308 --> 00:49:02,558 violence and stuff like that in the animal kingdom. 1164 00:49:03,443 --> 00:49:03,803 Rod Bland: Yeah. 1165 00:49:04,328 --> 00:49:06,398 Branden Densmore: We have these base instincts. 1166 00:49:06,925 --> 00:49:09,865 But if you understand that, it becomes a little bit 1167 00:49:09,865 --> 00:49:13,285 more understandable too that these kind of atrocities 1168 00:49:13,585 --> 00:49:18,447 manipulations abuses that war, violence, all that 1169 00:49:18,452 --> 00:49:20,979 kind of stuff that, that exists in this world. 1170 00:49:21,479 --> 00:49:24,339 When you look at the animal kingdom, And the 1171 00:49:24,339 --> 00:49:28,369 world of nature, you realize how violent of 1172 00:49:28,369 --> 00:49:30,599 a place that is now. 1173 00:49:30,599 --> 00:49:32,414 There's love, there's compassion, there's all 1174 00:49:32,419 --> 00:49:33,704 that good stuff in nature. 1175 00:49:34,244 --> 00:49:37,034 There's beauty, but it's a violent place too. 1176 00:49:38,034 --> 00:49:38,424 Rod Bland: Yeah. 1177 00:49:38,724 --> 00:49:40,134 Branden Densmore: This is where we come from. 1178 00:49:40,164 --> 00:49:44,164 We are, we come from nature, but we're, I believe 1179 00:49:44,464 --> 00:49:50,465 that we are evolving into more conscious creators 1180 00:49:50,465 --> 00:49:51,525 of our own destiny. 1181 00:49:52,025 --> 00:49:53,015 Rod Bland: Yeah, I believe that too. 1182 00:49:53,465 --> 00:49:56,042 I think that's, that's why I'm doing this. 1183 00:49:56,642 --> 00:49:58,412 That's why you we're having this conversation with you, 1184 00:49:58,412 --> 00:50:01,382 because if we didn't believe that we're becoming more 1185 00:50:01,512 --> 00:50:05,851 conscious and loving beings, then, what's the point? 1186 00:50:05,941 --> 00:50:07,827 I think that's where everybody's going 1187 00:50:07,832 --> 00:50:09,698 and you could either participate in that or not. 1188 00:50:10,028 --> 00:50:11,498 So yeah, 1189 00:50:11,798 --> 00:50:13,978 Branden Densmore: And we're of, growing out of that 1190 00:50:13,978 --> 00:50:14,998 violent kind of nature. 1191 00:50:15,026 --> 00:50:15,340 Rod Bland: Yeah. 1192 00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:16,540 Yeah. 1193 00:50:16,885 --> 00:50:17,785 Branden Densmore: more conscious. 1194 00:50:18,295 --> 00:50:20,965 But the reason I went into that diatribe is 1195 00:50:20,995 --> 00:50:24,518 that it makes the abuses that we endure a little 1196 00:50:24,518 --> 00:50:25,748 bit more understandable. 1197 00:50:25,824 --> 00:50:26,104 Rod Bland: Yep. 1198 00:50:26,137 --> 00:50:28,387 I guess you, you look at it this way, the 1199 00:50:28,817 --> 00:50:30,589 contribution that you've made since your recovery, 1200 00:50:30,919 --> 00:50:32,869 the people that you've impacted, that wouldn't 1201 00:50:32,869 --> 00:50:34,189 have happened unless you'd gone through that. 1202 00:50:34,189 --> 00:50:35,479 You went through that process. 1203 00:50:36,022 --> 00:50:38,863 I think it's part of, what do you want your life to mean? 1204 00:50:38,943 --> 00:50:40,863 You want to get to the end of your life and just be angry. 1205 00:50:41,013 --> 00:50:44,103 Just die angry, or do you wanna be something else? 1206 00:50:44,156 --> 00:50:46,707 Something I forgot to ask you was a lot of people who I've 1207 00:50:46,712 --> 00:50:49,307 spoken to after their near death experiences, it opens 1208 00:50:49,307 --> 00:50:51,647 up these latent abilities that they'd never had before. 1209 00:50:51,767 --> 00:50:52,937 Extrasensory abilities. 1210 00:50:52,937 --> 00:50:55,971 Have you had any other spiritually transformative 1211 00:50:55,971 --> 00:50:58,005 experiences or anything or have you noticed anything 1212 00:50:58,005 --> 00:50:59,925 like being empathic or anything like that since 1213 00:50:59,925 --> 00:51:00,925 you've had our NDE? 1214 00:51:02,055 --> 00:51:02,445 Branden Densmore: Yeah. 1215 00:51:02,452 --> 00:51:04,525 Experienced a lot of different abilities that 1216 00:51:04,525 --> 00:51:07,892 have awakened and but I did have a spiritual visitation 1217 00:51:08,392 --> 00:51:12,062 about a year after the, that near death experience 1218 00:51:12,062 --> 00:51:13,262 that I described before. 1219 00:51:13,802 --> 00:51:14,252 Rod Bland: Okay. 1220 00:51:14,612 --> 00:51:15,092 Tell us about. 1221 00:51:15,152 --> 00:51:17,867 Branden Densmore: But the purpose of the 12 steps is to 1222 00:51:17,867 --> 00:51:19,847 have a spiritual awakening. 1223 00:51:20,847 --> 00:51:22,227 So 12th step. 1224 00:51:22,407 --> 00:51:26,217 The 12th step is having had a spiritual awakening. 1225 00:51:27,217 --> 00:51:31,007 We bring this message to other alcoholics, right? 1226 00:51:31,790 --> 00:51:34,820 And in the back of the big book, there's an 1227 00:51:34,820 --> 00:51:38,273 appendix entry about spiritual experiences. 1228 00:51:38,773 --> 00:51:41,353 And Bill Wilson, the creator of Alcoholics Anonymous, 1229 00:51:41,353 --> 00:51:43,873 had a spiritual type experience of visitation. 1230 00:51:43,873 --> 00:51:46,843 They call it a white light experience. 1231 00:51:47,623 --> 00:51:49,916 But in the back of the big book, it says that not 1232 00:51:49,916 --> 00:51:52,736 everybody has these kind of white light experiences. 1233 00:51:53,006 --> 00:51:56,026 That they're usually more gradual kinds of 1234 00:51:56,226 --> 00:51:57,926 spiritual experiences that happen when you've 1235 00:51:57,926 --> 00:51:59,106 gone through the 12 steps. 1236 00:51:59,606 --> 00:52:02,276 But I had one of these white light type experiences. 1237 00:52:03,228 --> 00:52:06,149 I had been, having a kind of a hard time with my recovery 1238 00:52:06,479 --> 00:52:11,054 and prayed vigilantly for during a morning and About my 1239 00:52:11,054 --> 00:52:17,324 situation, and I was taking a shower one day and through 1240 00:52:17,324 --> 00:52:18,654 the ceiling came a light. 1241 00:52:18,705 --> 00:52:21,795 You know how you, if you look into a, the 1242 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,244 distance on a hot day and everything goes like this, 1243 00:52:24,984 --> 00:52:26,154 Rod Bland: Yeah, like a mirage. 1244 00:52:26,439 --> 00:52:27,484 Branden Densmore: what it was like coming 1245 00:52:27,489 --> 00:52:28,414 through my ceiling. 1246 00:52:28,978 --> 00:52:29,428 Rod Bland: Okay. 1247 00:52:30,428 --> 00:52:30,968 Branden Densmore: And, 1248 00:52:30,978 --> 00:52:31,918 Rod Bland: were you surprised? 1249 00:52:32,368 --> 00:52:32,638 You're like, 1250 00:52:32,778 --> 00:52:34,239 Branden Densmore: I was like, wow, what is that? 1251 00:52:34,929 --> 00:52:35,659 And 1252 00:52:35,669 --> 00:52:37,469 I'm in the shower, taking a shower. 1253 00:52:37,469 --> 00:52:41,219 This comes through the ceiling and all of a sudden 1254 00:52:41,759 --> 00:52:43,079 I'm penetrated by it. 1255 00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:46,612 And it was like the most peaceful. 1256 00:52:47,132 --> 00:52:51,542 Loving, kind of dynamic energy 1257 00:52:52,202 --> 00:52:54,212 that I could ever imagine. 1258 00:52:55,212 --> 00:52:58,332 And it went through every aspect of my being. 1259 00:52:58,392 --> 00:53:00,792 So when this thing came through the ceiling, I 1260 00:53:00,792 --> 00:53:03,687 started having all of these thoughts first of all, 1261 00:53:03,687 --> 00:53:07,017 I didn't know was this God, was this an angel? 1262 00:53:07,317 --> 00:53:08,317 What is this? 1263 00:53:08,817 --> 00:53:10,823 And then I could feel the power and the 1264 00:53:10,823 --> 00:53:12,810 love of this thing. 1265 00:53:13,530 --> 00:53:16,320 And I started having all of these thoughts like, 1266 00:53:16,350 --> 00:53:18,720 oh, I'm not worthy to have this experience. 1267 00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:21,745 I've messed up in life. 1268 00:53:21,745 --> 00:53:23,665 I've done X, Y, and z. 1269 00:53:23,694 --> 00:53:24,234 Rod Bland: Why me? 1270 00:53:24,384 --> 00:53:27,351 Branden Densmore: it, it didn't care in the slightest. 1271 00:53:27,351 --> 00:53:29,661 Like it, I felt like it was reading my mind 1272 00:53:30,661 --> 00:53:31,891 or it knew the thoughts 1273 00:53:31,891 --> 00:53:33,181 and the feelings that I was having. 1274 00:53:34,181 --> 00:53:37,494 And it was like, it looked past those 1275 00:53:37,494 --> 00:53:38,554 thoughts and feelings. 1276 00:53:39,054 --> 00:53:40,374 It looked through them. 1277 00:53:41,374 --> 00:53:45,004 It penetrated through the thoughts and the feelings 1278 00:53:45,514 --> 00:53:48,904 through my body, through every aspect of me. 1279 00:53:49,864 --> 00:53:52,624 And it had nothing but love and respect. 1280 00:53:53,624 --> 00:53:58,061 And it was mind blowing and baffling all at the same time. 1281 00:53:58,211 --> 00:54:00,851 And I just started crying. 1282 00:54:01,721 --> 00:54:04,151 I was just like, oh, wow. 1283 00:54:04,660 --> 00:54:06,160 This is unbelievable. 1284 00:54:07,405 --> 00:54:12,570 I just had so much gratitude that this being 1285 00:54:12,810 --> 00:54:13,920 revealed itself to me. 1286 00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:16,330 Rod Bland: It's a pretty rare thing, isn't it? 1287 00:54:16,330 --> 00:54:21,340 To feel zero judgment and love regardless. 1288 00:54:22,105 --> 00:54:22,975 Branden Densmore: Zero. 1289 00:54:23,215 --> 00:54:24,175 Zero judgment. 1290 00:54:25,060 --> 00:54:25,270 Rod Bland: yeah. 1291 00:54:26,270 --> 00:54:27,440 Branden Densmore: And I feel like that kind of 1292 00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,800 awakened something in me where I'm able to speak with 1293 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,630 people without judgment. 1294 00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:39,449 Cuz people tell me, their problems, things that they've 1295 00:54:39,449 --> 00:54:42,389 gone through, things that they're going through and 1296 00:54:42,389 --> 00:54:43,829 they expect a judgment. 1297 00:54:44,809 --> 00:54:47,854 But I'm able to just, that maybe that's one of the 1298 00:54:47,859 --> 00:54:49,174 abilities that's awakened, 1299 00:54:49,277 --> 00:54:52,127 Is the ability to listen to people and to not 1300 00:54:52,127 --> 00:54:53,267 judge them whatsoever. 1301 00:54:54,267 --> 00:54:54,757 Rod Bland: Yeah. 1302 00:54:55,757 --> 00:54:56,767 That's interesting. 1303 00:54:57,747 --> 00:55:01,323 So I've just got two, two more questions for you, Brandon. 1304 00:55:01,372 --> 00:55:04,057 Firstly I'll say I think you are one of the most 1305 00:55:04,507 --> 00:55:06,367 brave people I've ever spoken to in my entire 1306 00:55:06,367 --> 00:55:09,397 life, and I've spoken to a couple now as a result of 1307 00:55:09,397 --> 00:55:10,327 this work that I'm doing. 1308 00:55:10,447 --> 00:55:15,281 But I think to face down, knowing what you would have 1309 00:55:15,281 --> 00:55:18,804 to go through to recover, man, that takes some bravery 1310 00:55:19,304 --> 00:55:22,908 and to face down your past experiences and go, okay I'm 1311 00:55:22,913 --> 00:55:26,789 going to move past those and just live a better life and 1312 00:55:26,789 --> 00:55:27,779 forget about being angry. 1313 00:55:27,784 --> 00:55:28,935 That, that really takes something. 1314 00:55:28,990 --> 00:55:32,848 So speaking about life, so what do you consider to 1315 00:55:32,853 --> 00:55:35,097 be living a good life now? 1316 00:55:35,157 --> 00:55:38,587 It sounds like your life is pretty good, but what 1317 00:55:38,592 --> 00:55:41,407 do you consider that, that to be the essential parts? 1318 00:55:42,366 --> 00:55:45,007 Branden Densmore: Finding, finding meaning l leading 1319 00:55:45,077 --> 00:55:47,297 a meaningful kind of life, 1320 00:55:48,297 --> 00:55:52,658 which for me it's and my business and helping people 1321 00:55:53,225 --> 00:55:56,705 and going on shows like yours, Rod, sharing my 1322 00:55:56,705 --> 00:56:03,145 story and following that and improving, but finding 1323 00:56:03,715 --> 00:56:08,398 a way to be comfortable and happy fulfilled in life. 1324 00:56:08,898 --> 00:56:11,238 And it's not all about striving either. 1325 00:56:12,238 --> 00:56:15,888 Sometimes you need to strive, but other times it's nice to 1326 00:56:15,888 --> 00:56:17,328 just relax and be comfortable. 1327 00:56:18,328 --> 00:56:18,688 Rod Bland: Yeah. 1328 00:56:19,448 --> 00:56:20,422 Branden Densmore: To enjoy life. 1329 00:56:20,478 --> 00:56:22,620 Rod Bland: And where can people find more about when 1330 00:56:22,620 --> 00:56:25,220 we'll put in the show notes or the description more about 1331 00:56:25,220 --> 00:56:27,560 you, but where can people find out more about what you do 1332 00:56:28,514 --> 00:56:28,934 Branden Densmore: Facebook's good. 1333 00:56:29,639 --> 00:56:29,939 Rod Bland: Yep. 1334 00:56:29,978 --> 00:56:32,639 Branden Densmore: Brandon Densmore, b r a n d e n, 1335 00:56:33,139 --> 00:56:35,689 Densmore, D E N S M O R E. 1336 00:56:35,869 --> 00:56:39,029 Brandon Densmore I'm a certified spiritual coach. 1337 00:56:39,561 --> 00:56:40,071 Rod Bland: Okay. 1338 00:56:40,756 --> 00:56:42,246 Branden Densmore: I'm also a business consultant. 1339 00:56:42,767 --> 00:56:45,079 And feel free to reach out if you have any 1340 00:56:45,469 --> 00:56:46,039 questions about that. 1341 00:56:46,134 --> 00:56:46,854 It's my passion. 1342 00:56:46,854 --> 00:56:47,299 I love it. 1343 00:56:47,799 --> 00:56:50,049 And Facebook is good. 1344 00:56:50,049 --> 00:56:52,609 You can also reach me at CoachBrandonDensmore@gmail.com. 1345 00:56:55,219 --> 00:56:55,789 Rod Bland: Excellent. 1346 00:56:56,629 --> 00:56:57,199 All right. 1347 00:56:57,498 --> 00:56:59,628 Thank you so much for coming on the show. 1348 00:56:59,658 --> 00:57:02,193 I really appreciate you being open about the questions. 1349 00:57:02,193 --> 00:57:04,984 And I think that the viewers will have gotten 1350 00:57:05,044 --> 00:57:06,514 a great deal out of this. 1351 00:57:06,904 --> 00:57:08,339 And wish you well. 1352 00:57:08,839 --> 00:57:09,319 Branden Densmore: Thank you. 1353 00:57:10,219 --> 00:57:10,939 My pleasure. 1354 00:57:10,969 --> 00:57:11,659 Glad to be here.