WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:05.008 --> 00:00:07.558 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Hey folks, and welcome to another episode 00:00:07.588 --> 00:00:09.978 of the Small Tech Podcast by EC. 00:00:10.038 --> 00:00:13.848 I'm your host, Raph, and today we have another amazing guest. 00:00:13.968 --> 00:00:18.308 She has co-founded a few different companies, including EarthProof, which 00:00:18.308 --> 00:00:23.118 was acquired and she is currently the co founder of R&G Strategic, 00:00:23.298 --> 00:00:25.708 which is the sustainability agency. 00:00:25.968 --> 00:00:29.158 She is an amazing designer and a wonderful person. 00:00:29.168 --> 00:00:30.518 She is Liz Gosselin. 00:00:30.548 --> 00:00:31.058 Hi, Liz. 00:00:31.180 --> 00:00:31.890 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: Hi. 00:00:32.040 --> 00:00:32.290 Wow. 00:00:32.290 --> 00:00:32.590 Thanks. 00:00:32.590 --> 00:00:33.510 Great intro. 00:00:33.608 --> 00:00:35.988 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: So, it's very exciting to have you on the 00:00:35.988 --> 00:00:42.178 podcast today because we worked together on a few different projects and I know a 00:00:42.178 --> 00:00:45.878 fair bit about you and your background, but I'd love to dig in a little bit more 00:00:45.878 --> 00:00:51.008 and yeah, learn about how you do what you do and how you got to where you are. 00:00:51.298 --> 00:00:52.568 So I was curious. 00:00:53.158 --> 00:00:58.018 If you could tell me a little bit about your story, like how did you get into 00:00:58.018 --> 00:01:03.258 design and branding and yeah, how did that, how did that all come about? 00:01:03.364 --> 00:01:03.866 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: that happen? 00:01:03.866 --> 00:01:04.736 I think it's kind of cool. 00:01:04.736 --> 00:01:07.036 Our paths did overlap at a few points too. 00:01:07.076 --> 00:01:11.606 So I started out at Concordia University in fine arts, which I think we just 00:01:11.606 --> 00:01:14.416 missed each other there because you were also around the school. 00:01:15.076 --> 00:01:18.816 and then I moved over to NASCAD and I started into design, which through that 00:01:18.816 --> 00:01:21.716 I think I really knew throughout I wanted to start my own business at some point. 00:01:22.276 --> 00:01:25.996 but the design element was really fun, so it was kind of a good multi purpose 00:01:26.126 --> 00:01:28.866 education where I was learning some skills, but also knew I wanted to come 00:01:28.876 --> 00:01:30.246 out of it and become an entrepreneur. 00:01:30.265 --> 00:01:30.595 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: that's 00:01:30.595 --> 00:01:32.795 so interesting to me because I was kind of the opposite. 00:01:32.825 --> 00:01:36.015 I was just looking for a job and had trouble and I was like, 00:01:36.015 --> 00:01:37.605 I guess I'll do my own thing. 00:01:38.135 --> 00:01:41.265 How did that, like, manifest in you, when you were in school? 00:01:41.265 --> 00:01:45.895 Like, did, did you, were you trying to build things before you graduated? 00:01:46.017 --> 00:01:47.407 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: I think I was always excited seeing other 00:01:47.407 --> 00:01:50.877 people build things, and the startup community where I met you was always cool 00:01:50.877 --> 00:01:53.947 to kind of hop in and see what people were building, so I was kind of always 00:01:53.947 --> 00:01:57.897 looking at ideas, what to do, I think, I thought there was going to be quite a few 00:01:57.897 --> 00:02:01.602 years of taking jobs, but I had a similar moment to you after school where I was 00:02:01.602 --> 00:02:04.637 like, I think the better option actually is just working for myself right away. 00:02:05.247 --> 00:02:06.717 So yeah, just dove straight into that. 00:02:07.026 --> 00:02:09.266 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: yep, Volta was pretty awesome. 00:02:09.276 --> 00:02:12.956 So you actually had connections to Volta, like, you had been to Volta before 00:02:12.966 --> 00:02:15.486 graduating, like, you were hanging out there while you were still at NASCAD? 00:02:15.668 --> 00:02:16.828 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: It wasn't while I was still there, it 00:02:16.828 --> 00:02:20.158 was after, but I did get introduced a bit into like the DALL startup space, 00:02:20.158 --> 00:02:21.568 where they'd incubate a few companies. 00:02:21.568 --> 00:02:25.778 And I think I was just always excited by people starting things, so I knew 00:02:25.778 --> 00:02:27.108 it was coming for me eventually. 00:02:27.258 --> 00:02:28.748 Did you know it was coming for you, or was it a 00:02:28.788 --> 00:02:29.388 surprise? 00:02:29.467 --> 00:02:30.997 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: No, for me it was a bit of a surprise. 00:02:31.027 --> 00:02:34.077 I was kind of hoping for a job. 00:02:34.077 --> 00:02:37.887 I mean, to be fair, I was trying to build stuff while I was in university. 00:02:37.937 --> 00:02:39.757 I just didn't think it could ever be real. 00:02:39.757 --> 00:02:40.540 Yeah. 00:02:40.540 --> 00:02:42.889 So, I was 00:02:43.348 --> 00:02:44.618 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: What's the first thing you built? 00:02:45.237 --> 00:02:49.677 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: 3D animation, and I wanted to get into the 00:02:49.677 --> 00:02:54.787 movie industry, I had this idea that I would build a render farm and that 00:02:54.827 --> 00:02:57.367 there could be a nice online interface. 00:02:57.647 --> 00:03:00.547 I had this idea for an app that was called Critical. 00:03:00.952 --> 00:03:05.232 But it was spelled really, really poorly, where it was like, creative 00:03:05.312 --> 00:03:10.902 collaboration, so just cre a l it made not a whole lot of sense, but I started 00:03:10.912 --> 00:03:15.242 trying to build that, and was like, oh, this is actually gonna be pretty tough. 00:03:15.722 --> 00:03:16.662 I just wanted to build 00:03:16.662 --> 00:03:16.782 cool 00:03:16.808 --> 00:03:17.488 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: a long road. 00:03:17.642 --> 00:03:19.512 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: for 3D animators and stuff. 00:03:19.512 --> 00:03:19.934 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: cool. 00:03:19.974 --> 00:03:22.384 To give you credit, the name probably was cool at the time, 00:03:22.788 --> 00:03:23.128 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah, 00:03:23.128 --> 00:03:25.478 yeah, back in the late 2000s. 00:03:25.478 --> 00:03:28.728 Dropping vowels or mashing stuff together, yeah, 00:03:28.728 --> 00:03:30.400 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: whatever get your .com, you just take it 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:30.660 out. 00:03:30.934 --> 00:03:31.984 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: yeah, exactly. 00:03:32.244 --> 00:03:36.414 yeah, so when you graduate at NASCAD, you get into this startup 00:03:36.734 --> 00:03:39.034 environment, and then what happens? 00:03:39.034 --> 00:03:41.935 You start doing stuff with tech companies, Okay. 00:03:42.111 --> 00:03:43.687 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: Yeah, it was actually pretty cool, I 00:03:43.915 --> 00:03:47.857 remember I volunteered at a Volta event, but I'd never been to Volta, and then 00:03:47.887 --> 00:03:50.567 I ended up going to the space, and everybody was just like, here's work 00:03:50.567 --> 00:03:54.137 you can do, and it was just this magical little environment, and I feel like 00:03:54.137 --> 00:03:58.412 within three days, I just had contracts, like people were so Happy to see a 00:03:58.412 --> 00:04:00.952 designer showed up in the space, and I was really excited about what they're 00:04:00.952 --> 00:04:04.232 doing, what they're trying to build, and it was just a really nice spot to land. 00:04:04.842 --> 00:04:09.172 you know, a free desk, free pizza, it was like the perfect out of school. 00:04:09.492 --> 00:04:12.092 I've arrived to my new job, even though it's not an official job. 00:04:12.241 --> 00:04:12.681 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yep. 00:04:13.031 --> 00:04:16.211 It was really kind of a magical space that way. 00:04:16.261 --> 00:04:16.511 I don't know. 00:04:16.511 --> 00:04:20.551 Do you have any like particular memories of that time that you're like, 00:04:20.551 --> 00:04:23.641 yeah this was the moment that I was like, this is what I'm going to do. 00:04:23.813 --> 00:04:24.573 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: that's a good question. 00:04:24.573 --> 00:04:27.663 I feel like it was just like, showing up and everybody just being so 00:04:27.723 --> 00:04:29.143 encouraging and like, bump into it. 00:04:29.143 --> 00:04:31.863 I think you go into other spaces and people are like, oh, that's 00:04:31.863 --> 00:04:34.653 not safe, that's a risk, it's something they're not familiar with, 00:04:34.653 --> 00:04:35.743 or something they haven't done. 00:04:35.743 --> 00:04:35.793 Yeah. 00:04:35.898 --> 00:04:39.478 So they're trying to like caution you like, oh, there's less job security. 00:04:39.478 --> 00:04:40.648 You're not going to get health insurance. 00:04:40.648 --> 00:04:43.398 You know, like their mind goes all these places, but you show up in a space like 00:04:43.408 --> 00:04:44.648 Volta and everybody's already doing it. 00:04:44.748 --> 00:04:46.038 I was like, of course you can do this. 00:04:46.528 --> 00:04:48.228 And like, you don't, you don't feel like the outsider. 00:04:48.228 --> 00:04:49.998 You're just like, yeah, yeah, let's do this. 00:04:50.148 --> 00:04:51.328 Like this is a normal day. 00:04:51.968 --> 00:04:54.988 Whereas if you went to like any other workspace, I feel like you might 00:04:54.998 --> 00:04:56.715 have more hesitation around you. 00:04:56.765 --> 00:04:59.795 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: for sure and so I guess with those 00:04:59.805 --> 00:05:03.635 projects and like, with that support, what do you find most inspiring, 00:05:03.635 --> 00:05:05.225 like getting into a project? 00:05:05.245 --> 00:05:08.195 What, what helps you get those creative juices flowing 00:05:08.317 --> 00:05:08.338 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: I 00:05:08.338 --> 00:05:10.250 always kind of like the core of the project is the 00:05:10.250 --> 00:05:11.720 people and the purpose of it. 00:05:11.740 --> 00:05:14.490 So like, you meet people, they're really excited about something, you want to help 00:05:14.490 --> 00:05:17.630 them out, especially if it's something that's going to have big impact or 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:20.780 like, you know, help with sustainability or change your community, those are 00:05:20.780 --> 00:05:22.460 times you start to feel really excited. 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:26.971 And then helping them form strategy to communicate more effectively, people in a 00:05:26.971 --> 00:05:30.316 different way than maybe they thought of is when you really start to excited and 00:05:30.316 --> 00:05:34.366 want to be part of those projects, which I think you probably share a sentiment with, 00:05:34.366 --> 00:05:35.576 with, the you've positioned your work. 00:05:36.440 --> 00:05:38.770 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: that definitely, that resonates 00:05:38.790 --> 00:05:43.140 a lot So maybe we can dive deeper into that so sustainability, that's 00:05:43.140 --> 00:05:46.290 a thing that you find motivating, that's a thing that I find motivating. 00:05:46.290 --> 00:05:51.850 How does your work change between, I mean, some of those startups and that 00:05:51.850 --> 00:05:57.500 community presumably had some of that, which is how you find that world. 00:05:57.860 --> 00:06:01.710 But then moving from something that doesn't have that kind of impact 00:06:01.750 --> 00:06:05.940 to something in the sustainability space, is there anything that 00:06:05.940 --> 00:06:07.500 changes for you in the process? 00:06:07.510 --> 00:06:09.080 Is there a different way of thinking? 00:06:09.090 --> 00:06:13.010 Like what do you do differently when you move into the sustainability space? 00:06:13.132 --> 00:06:14.532 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: I think there was kind of a process 00:06:14.532 --> 00:06:15.992 of changing my thinking over time. 00:06:16.002 --> 00:06:18.052 Like, there were things that were initially exciting, like building 00:06:18.052 --> 00:06:20.712 my first business, getting my first customers, like, you know, 00:06:20.712 --> 00:06:22.102 all those things felt exciting. 00:06:22.102 --> 00:06:24.872 And then the work started to fall flat and not have meaning. 00:06:24.882 --> 00:06:27.122 Like, I realized the work I was doing wasn't really, wasn't really, 00:06:27.244 --> 00:06:30.414 making any change or doing any good, even though like maybe it was 00:06:30.414 --> 00:06:34.331 helping that business, it wasn't enough for me to like stay satisfied. 00:06:34.371 --> 00:06:37.491 So once you sort of move into the sustainability space, I feel like 00:06:37.501 --> 00:06:39.891 everyone working on a project is working for something bigger than 00:06:39.891 --> 00:06:41.481 that's just the business as well. 00:06:41.911 --> 00:06:44.981 So I think you just naturally surround yourself with a different type of person 00:06:44.981 --> 00:06:47.511 who's working beyond the nine to five. 00:06:47.511 --> 00:06:49.781 They're working because they're really passionate about what they're doing. 00:06:49.791 --> 00:06:52.244 They really believe in the project they're working on, it, 00:06:52.274 --> 00:06:53.544 it just changes the whole mood. 00:06:53.603 --> 00:06:54.153 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah. 00:06:54.483 --> 00:06:57.273 Is there anything sort of mechanically that changes? 00:06:57.273 --> 00:07:02.853 Like the work that you would do in a traditional context versus these 00:07:02.853 --> 00:07:06.313 types of contexts, is there anything that changes in the workflow? 00:07:06.353 --> 00:07:12.333 Like how you talk to people, how you sort of conceptualize a brand or a design. 00:07:12.708 --> 00:07:17.228 Or is it kind of the same, but just now you've got that motivation to get it done. 00:07:17.278 --> 00:07:18.470 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: say the way we set up our team 00:07:18.470 --> 00:07:20.770 is definitely different now because we're half sustainability 00:07:20.770 --> 00:07:22.700 consultants, half marketing agencies. 00:07:22.710 --> 00:07:26.910 So the way we work together really changes, it changes what we do a lot. 00:07:26.980 --> 00:07:31.090 But if you kind of back up to just being a designer for any company, 00:07:31.090 --> 00:07:33.320 these are still principles you should be applying to your work. 00:07:33.330 --> 00:07:35.220 And making sure people aren't greenwashing, making sure 00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:37.723 they're being transparent, Like there's a lot of homework to 00:07:37.723 --> 00:07:39.053 do that you're responsible for. 00:07:39.063 --> 00:07:41.623 You can't just like take whatever they want and put it on because they're 00:07:41.623 --> 00:07:42.783 probably missing knowledge too. 00:07:42.783 --> 00:07:42.923 Thanks a lot. 00:07:43.687 --> 00:07:46.337 that's kind of an interesting gap that we're filling, and I think 00:07:46.337 --> 00:07:47.567 that changes our whole workplace. 00:07:47.587 --> 00:07:50.637 That if somebody has a concern, we have a team to resource, and our clients are 00:07:50.637 --> 00:07:53.667 valuing that part of our team as well to help guide them, so their outcome 00:07:53.667 --> 00:07:57.127 is actually transparent, and something they can be saying and representing 00:07:57.127 --> 00:07:58.627 with their brand or working towards. 00:07:59.361 --> 00:08:00.831 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: yeah, That makes a lot of sense. 00:08:01.011 --> 00:08:01.771 Like, okay. 00:08:01.791 --> 00:08:04.971 So there's a thing that you said there that makes me wonder, 00:08:04.971 --> 00:08:08.641 specifically, are there things that are difficult in working in this space? 00:08:08.641 --> 00:08:11.651 Like if people don't, I don't know, recognize, for example, what they 00:08:11.651 --> 00:08:16.741 might be diving into from a client's perspective, if you're doing reporting 00:08:16.751 --> 00:08:21.944 for a client and they perhaps don't fully understand what you need from them. 00:08:22.084 --> 00:08:24.837 is there anything particularly difficult there? 00:08:24.837 --> 00:08:27.247 Like how do you get around those kinds of issues? 00:08:27.289 --> 00:08:29.289 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: say with a project as big as reporting, 00:08:29.299 --> 00:08:32.759 like we're looking really early on in those phases of like, is this a good match 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:36.069 for a project with the client as to like, how much knowledge does your team have? 00:08:36.109 --> 00:08:36.919 Who's doing what? 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:38.589 Like, these are all the things that need to get done. 00:08:38.619 --> 00:08:41.049 And if you're a first time reporter, like, there's a lot to 00:08:41.049 --> 00:08:42.299 learn, and there's a lot to do. 00:08:42.859 --> 00:08:44.549 And it's a lot of manpower internally. 00:08:44.569 --> 00:08:47.419 So it is kind of balancing, you know, here's what we can 00:08:47.419 --> 00:08:48.709 provide and our knowledge. 00:08:48.709 --> 00:08:48.759 Thanks. 00:08:50.114 --> 00:08:54.191 So they know what they're onboarding to long term like it's also okay if 00:08:54.191 --> 00:08:57.191 people are missing internal gaps because our team can kind of step in and fill 00:08:57.191 --> 00:09:00.431 them as well and help teach them what needs to be done or set them up so they 00:09:00.436 --> 00:09:01.871 can do it themselves the next year. 00:09:02.169 --> 00:09:02.519 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah. 00:09:03.019 --> 00:09:03.729 That makes sense. 00:09:03.875 --> 00:09:04.325 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: Yeah. 00:09:04.505 --> 00:09:08.885 I think some of these problems rise more when people are like coming with good 00:09:08.890 --> 00:09:11.855 intention with a new business and they want to be sustainable, but they don't 00:09:11.855 --> 00:09:14.438 necessarily have hours or the resources. 00:09:14.912 --> 00:09:15.902 everything properly. 00:09:15.952 --> 00:09:17.522 So they're coming to you with good intention and an 00:09:17.552 --> 00:09:18.812 open mind, which is great. 00:09:19.626 --> 00:09:22.755 oftentimes people just have like, they learned in the past that aren't 00:09:22.755 --> 00:09:26.405 necessarily accurate, like around packaging and the impact of the packaging. 00:09:27.013 --> 00:09:28.205 just be like, I need glass. 00:09:28.395 --> 00:09:29.335 I just, I need glass. 00:09:29.335 --> 00:09:30.025 It's sustainable. 00:09:30.215 --> 00:09:31.795 And did you check if it's sustainable? 00:09:32.575 --> 00:09:34.385 Like, are we, what are we comparing it to? 00:09:34.395 --> 00:09:35.365 How are we presenting this? 00:09:35.385 --> 00:09:37.825 Like you can't just write sustainable on that label because you pick 00:09:37.865 --> 00:09:39.215 glass and it's not plastic. 00:09:39.215 --> 00:09:42.135 Like not being plastic is not good enough to say that. 00:09:42.545 --> 00:09:45.245 So it's often those conversations that are the harder ones where 00:09:45.275 --> 00:09:48.625 there's like such a large and there's so much for that entrepreneur 00:09:48.625 --> 00:09:51.715 to figure out if they're a small business, how to source all the right 00:09:51.715 --> 00:09:53.475 materials, what actually makes sense. 00:09:53.485 --> 00:09:55.395 Like it's just a really hard job for a small business. 00:09:55.559 --> 00:09:57.219 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: yeah, that makes sense. 00:09:57.696 --> 00:10:02.836 Um, I was at a session recently that was talking about ESG reporting and 00:10:03.156 --> 00:10:06.126 the companies there were all early stage startups and they were, it 00:10:06.126 --> 00:10:08.676 was neat because they were trying to think about it and they were trying 00:10:08.676 --> 00:10:13.086 to think in this case specifically in like a more digital context. 00:10:13.456 --> 00:10:16.131 but yeah, it was, it was cool. 00:10:16.601 --> 00:10:19.901 It's cool to see them thinking about it, but also interesting to sort of note 00:10:19.941 --> 00:10:24.251 that, you know, there's this whole like group of people and organizations who 00:10:24.251 --> 00:10:27.451 want to do this kind of stuff but the 00:10:27.672 --> 00:10:27.852 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: Mm hmm. 00:10:27.981 --> 00:10:31.421 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: point is, is pretty tough. 00:10:31.431 --> 00:10:36.711 Like getting into it and understanding what reporting means and how 00:10:36.711 --> 00:10:39.051 you collect data and how you. 00:10:39.051 --> 00:10:41.571 I don't know, make sure that it all makes sense. 00:10:41.691 --> 00:10:43.661 Was pretty overwhelming, really. 00:10:43.661 --> 00:10:50.091 A lot of people there are kind of like, oh, I, yeah, uh, I guess we'll 00:10:50.151 --> 00:10:54.721 start thinking about it but not sure we're actually gonna be able to do it. 00:10:54.721 --> 00:10:56.713 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: really, it's a big job, but often the 00:10:56.713 --> 00:11:00.733 best route is just to take small pieces of it and say, it's year one, this is our 00:11:00.733 --> 00:11:03.133 first try, and this is what we're going to accomplish year one, and we're going 00:11:03.133 --> 00:11:05.053 to build up every year on top of that. 00:11:05.343 --> 00:11:08.013 Unless you're a really large organization, you can just staff 00:11:08.013 --> 00:11:09.433 your whole department and get going. 00:11:10.291 --> 00:11:11.533 often that is the approach. 00:11:11.703 --> 00:11:13.593 You're like, okay, this year we're going to figure out, you know, 00:11:13.593 --> 00:11:14.773 our greenhouse gas emissions. 00:11:15.213 --> 00:11:17.093 And we're going to publish those and do them properly. 00:11:17.503 --> 00:11:19.533 And then next year, we're going to do a materiality assessment. 00:11:19.533 --> 00:11:22.443 And next year, we're going to keep, you know, repeating everything every 00:11:22.443 --> 00:11:24.143 year, but just add on one by one, 00:11:24.887 --> 00:11:25.307 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: yeah. 00:11:25.733 --> 00:11:27.453 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: because it is a lot to do. 00:11:28.757 --> 00:11:29.277 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yep. 00:11:29.757 --> 00:11:34.717 actually I'm kind of curious how many digital first, if that makes sense, 00:11:34.717 --> 00:11:40.197 like software style organizations do you find do this relative to 00:11:40.637 --> 00:11:42.867 non software, if that makes sense? 00:11:43.369 --> 00:11:45.049 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: That's interesting, a lot of our clients 00:11:45.169 --> 00:11:48.439 have like materials, so like mining materials, for example, or like, they 00:11:48.439 --> 00:11:50.059 have a lot of spaces and buildings. 00:11:50.749 --> 00:11:56.358 So they're less, digital focused, but I mean, a lot of the big tech companies are 00:11:56.358 --> 00:11:58.869 really thinking about this and tracking it because they use a lot of power 00:11:58.869 --> 00:12:00.509 and resources in a very different way. 00:12:00.943 --> 00:12:04.385 yeah, I'm not as sure about like the small tech space and where they're at right 00:12:04.385 --> 00:12:07.488 now, I think it is officially top of everyone's mind. 00:12:07.488 --> 00:12:09.008 It's top of investors minds. 00:12:09.068 --> 00:12:11.538 Like, people are asking more questions than they ever have. 00:12:11.836 --> 00:12:16.647 Yeah, I feel like I see people also asking questions about like, okay, 00:12:16.647 --> 00:12:17.747 where are we going to host this? 00:12:17.747 --> 00:12:22.147 Like, does that data host or that data center have, green power 00:12:22.147 --> 00:12:23.657 and what does that actually mean? 00:12:23.677 --> 00:12:27.357 I see some of the cloud providers saying like, yeah, we are aiming 00:12:27.357 --> 00:12:33.077 to be fully renewable by whatever year or wind powered and whatever. 00:12:33.187 --> 00:12:35.507 Does that, is that showing up more for you? 00:12:35.507 --> 00:12:37.849 think that's showing up, like, people are starting to understand they have to 00:12:37.859 --> 00:12:41.529 ask more questions and they can't just keep doing business as usual and figuring 00:12:41.529 --> 00:12:45.059 out where they can make improvements over time, so if their website or their 00:12:45.059 --> 00:12:48.059 tool is a big part of their business, that is now a bigger consideration. 00:12:48.803 --> 00:12:49.103 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah. 00:12:49.263 --> 00:12:49.993 That makes sense. 00:12:50.313 --> 00:12:54.713 So you, you do that kind of work, the reporting work, you do also like branding 00:12:54.713 --> 00:12:58.893 and marketing and you work with a variety of like sizes of organizations. 00:12:59.253 --> 00:13:04.483 but you also do things like when, when you told me about MyKidsFuture and sorry, 00:13:04.513 --> 00:13:06.853 just to make it clear I do not have a kid. 00:13:07.133 --> 00:13:10.463 It's a project called MyKidsFuture for anyone listening. 00:13:11.703 --> 00:13:14.923 , But, yeah, you came to me and you said, hey, there's this 00:13:14.923 --> 00:13:16.163 thing we're trying to build. 00:13:16.163 --> 00:13:17.843 Are you interested in being involved? 00:13:18.203 --> 00:13:20.933 Like how do projects like that come about for you? 00:13:21.036 --> 00:13:22.186 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: back to what we were talking about before. 00:13:22.186 --> 00:13:23.806 It's about the project and the people. 00:13:23.826 --> 00:13:27.306 So a member of our team came in and was saying she was really 00:13:27.306 --> 00:13:28.786 struggling with climate anxiety. 00:13:28.886 --> 00:13:32.326 She had a really young kid at the time, and she was expecting her next one. 00:13:32.376 --> 00:13:36.266 So it was really hard for her, having all of this knowledge, being a 00:13:36.266 --> 00:13:38.206 sustainability consultant on our team. 00:13:38.696 --> 00:13:41.386 And really knowing what the future looked like for her kids 00:13:41.386 --> 00:13:42.366 and feeling so stuck in it. 00:13:42.540 --> 00:13:43.020 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: hmm. 00:13:43.276 --> 00:13:44.556 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: And we kind of had an internal 00:13:44.556 --> 00:13:45.666 chat of like, what can we do? 00:13:45.666 --> 00:13:48.396 And she said, maybe I can put my letter to my MP on the blog. 00:13:48.996 --> 00:13:50.466 And we were all just like, I feel like everyone's just 00:13:50.466 --> 00:13:51.566 kind of apathetic right now. 00:13:51.566 --> 00:13:54.476 Like, there's so much scary news happening every day. 00:13:55.036 --> 00:13:56.606 And it's so much to consume. 00:13:56.646 --> 00:13:58.236 And then like, you don't even know how to act on it. 00:13:58.366 --> 00:14:01.046 And that's kind of what triggered us to be like, oh, we just 00:14:01.046 --> 00:14:02.116 have to take away the action. 00:14:02.136 --> 00:14:04.976 Like, let's give people the info and like, let them act on it easily. 00:14:05.016 --> 00:14:05.386 Because. 00:14:06.086 --> 00:14:08.506 It's way too much for anybody to research this on their own. 00:14:08.656 --> 00:14:12.376 Like it's so deep so hard to know if what you're looking at is accurate and 00:14:12.376 --> 00:14:13.916 then to feel confident writing a letter. 00:14:14.046 --> 00:14:15.626 That's like a couple days of work right there. 00:14:16.540 --> 00:14:16.870 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: yep, 00:14:17.036 --> 00:14:17.306 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: Yeah. 00:14:18.390 --> 00:14:20.150 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: So okay, you have this motivation, 00:14:20.150 --> 00:14:23.810 which it is, it's a very scary thing to think about. 00:14:24.270 --> 00:14:26.080 And, and so you decide you're going to build it. 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:30.470 Like what was your thought process as you start to design the site, 00:14:30.520 --> 00:14:33.100 figure out like what the user experience is going to be like. 00:14:33.390 --> 00:14:39.790 Like, so in the end it's this for anyone who doesn't know mykidsfuture.ca it's a 00:14:39.800 --> 00:14:45.500 site where you can put in some details about a child and you get back this card 00:14:45.830 --> 00:14:51.400 this image, which explains what the future looks like for them in their province. 00:14:51.810 --> 00:14:57.460 and then down below, there's a pre filled letter that you can send to your MP with 00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:00.170 your child's details, embedded there. 00:15:00.510 --> 00:15:02.890 So it just takes a lot of work out of the process. 00:15:02.990 --> 00:15:08.180 so yeah, how did, how did that user experience come to life? 00:15:08.627 --> 00:15:10.057 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: we were really lucky on this one 00:15:10.057 --> 00:15:12.697 where you were so excited about it too, because there's always like 00:15:12.697 --> 00:15:15.797 limitations starting a new project as to what can we actually build. 00:15:15.867 --> 00:15:19.757 So kind of coming to you with my wishlist of like, I would, I mean, 00:15:19.807 --> 00:15:23.137 internally at R&G, we always say we want to you know, hearts and change minds. 00:15:23.157 --> 00:15:27.920 And apply that to this idea, it was like, how do we give people information 00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:31.550 that just really moves them and changes them in a way they can do something? 00:15:31.550 --> 00:15:35.170 So like serving them that piece of information that might be really hard 00:15:35.170 --> 00:15:39.030 to read because it's your kid's future, but then being able to look through 00:15:39.030 --> 00:15:40.370 and say, okay, I can't change this. 00:15:40.370 --> 00:15:41.175 I can act on this. 00:15:41.175 --> 00:15:45.580 And this is really important information that kind of pulled all of this together. 00:15:45.610 --> 00:15:48.320 So I think that initial idea, and then being lucky enough to have 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.880 your collaboration of we can build this in a really cool interactive 00:15:50.880 --> 00:15:53.170 way was just great timing. 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:55.689 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah, I was so excited to work on it. 00:15:55.739 --> 00:15:57.029 I feel like it's a great project. 00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:58.859 It makes me feel good about what we do. 00:15:59.005 --> 00:15:59.135 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: Mm 00:15:59.253 --> 00:16:00.433 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah, I like that there's 00:16:00.443 --> 00:16:01.763 also this call to action. 00:16:01.763 --> 00:16:05.873 It's not just a, Hey, here's some information to make you worried, 00:16:06.223 --> 00:16:10.233 but here's like a thing that you can do to like actively make change 00:16:10.263 --> 00:16:12.196 which is, I think, super important. 00:16:12.196 --> 00:16:12.488 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: good. 00:16:12.518 --> 00:16:15.228 And I, I think the tone of the language too really helps. 00:16:15.238 --> 00:16:18.048 So that letter, we've even been getting messages that people's MPs are actually 00:16:18.048 --> 00:16:21.008 phoning them back and spending time on the phone with them because the letters really 00:16:21.018 --> 00:16:22.548 moved them because it was so personal. 00:16:23.038 --> 00:16:25.158 I think people are sending in letters about their own kids and what 00:16:25.158 --> 00:16:26.618 they love and why they're afraid. 00:16:26.658 --> 00:16:29.808 And it's, different than a campaign where everybody just blasts out the same letter. 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:33.530 excites you about coming on board to a project like MyKidsFuture? 00:16:33.550 --> 00:16:37.780 Like, is it a mix of how it's built and the creativity that you're coding, 00:16:37.930 --> 00:16:39.690 or is it just about the impact? 00:16:39.690 --> 00:16:43.816 Like, where do you find that middle ground of, tech project and it's also impactful 00:16:43.816 --> 00:16:44.729 mm 00:16:45.095 --> 00:16:48.055 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: There's like, from my perspective, 00:16:48.095 --> 00:16:52.435 I'm personally quite motivated by technical sort of challenges. 00:16:52.445 --> 00:16:57.735 So I like to think about how data moves, how you like manage infrastructure 00:16:57.735 --> 00:17:01.555 and, and that sort of thing and so I think there was a part of me that 00:17:01.555 --> 00:17:05.245 was like, okay, the idea of like dynamically generating this image. 00:17:05.575 --> 00:17:09.475 So that you can share it and you have this artifact, digital artifact, as 00:17:09.475 --> 00:17:11.285 opposed to just like something on a page. 00:17:11.675 --> 00:17:16.065 so for anyone, technical who's listening, like one of the things that we do is 00:17:16.065 --> 00:17:21.335 we actually generate this card with details that are personalized to the 00:17:21.335 --> 00:17:23.555 information to the child's details. 00:17:23.945 --> 00:17:27.045 And it turns into the sharing card for the page. 00:17:27.045 --> 00:17:28.625 So if someone shares the URL. 00:17:29.205 --> 00:17:34.435 On Facebook, on Slack, Twitter, wherever, that image will pop up as the sharing 00:17:34.435 --> 00:17:38.115 card and so things like that, I find fun. 00:17:38.405 --> 00:17:43.795 but of course the starting point has to be has to be motivating in and of itself. 00:17:43.825 --> 00:17:51.355 Like I find that working on a technical challenge without a context that 00:17:51.375 --> 00:17:54.015 motivates me just becomes a drag. 00:17:54.125 --> 00:17:57.205 Then I'm like, okay, I'm doing this technical stuff. 00:17:57.205 --> 00:17:58.975 That's kind of interesting, but for what? 00:17:59.265 --> 00:18:03.205 so I feel like that, that intersection is, is really important for me. 00:18:03.545 --> 00:18:04.972 Like the flip side as well. 00:18:04.982 --> 00:18:08.572 Like if I do something that's for a very motivating mission. 00:18:08.697 --> 00:18:10.007 But it's a WordPress site. 00:18:10.124 --> 00:18:11.124 I'm not interested. 00:18:11.694 --> 00:18:15.174 Um, and you know, there are some WordPress sites that, you know, there's some, 00:18:15.184 --> 00:18:18.454 some complexity there that's kind of fun to poke around at, but generally 00:18:18.454 --> 00:18:20.244 it's not, it's not my cup of tea. 00:18:20.714 --> 00:18:23.744 so yeah, building this was, was really exciting. 00:18:23.744 --> 00:18:24.906 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: was definitely something special. 00:18:24.906 --> 00:18:28.296 I even really saw it come out like once we hit design, like there's so 00:18:28.296 --> 00:18:31.976 much conceptually about this idea and then the technical aspect behind it. 00:18:31.996 --> 00:18:34.426 But even the logo and the curves we put in the site just really 00:18:34.426 --> 00:18:37.036 represented like the windy road everybody's on right now of like, 00:18:37.896 --> 00:18:39.086 what is all this information? 00:18:39.086 --> 00:18:39.626 What's happening? 00:18:39.626 --> 00:18:40.296 Where are we going? 00:18:40.306 --> 00:18:41.936 Like there's just this uncertain future. 00:18:41.936 --> 00:18:44.036 And I think the site really played it up in like this really 00:18:44.036 --> 00:18:45.216 friendly, approachable way. 00:18:45.216 --> 00:18:47.646 That's also kind of a fun story as well. 00:18:47.730 --> 00:18:48.190 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah. 00:18:48.300 --> 00:18:48.680 Yeah. 00:18:48.910 --> 00:18:51.280 I feel like it came together really, really nicely. 00:18:51.280 --> 00:18:51.600 Yeah. 00:18:51.610 --> 00:18:54.800 Between the visuals and the experience and all of that. 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:55.485 Um, yeah. 00:18:55.985 --> 00:18:56.365 yeah. 00:18:56.666 --> 00:18:56.986 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: Yeah, 00:18:57.445 --> 00:18:57.755 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: I like 00:18:57.755 --> 00:18:58.065 seeing 00:18:58.146 --> 00:18:59.046 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: everyone should go check it 00:18:59.046 --> 00:18:59.396 out. 00:18:59.875 --> 00:19:02.405 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: go, go mykidsfuture.ca if you're listening, 00:19:02.415 --> 00:19:03.955 if you're on your phone, maybe. 00:19:04.955 --> 00:19:06.275 It's, it's mobile friendly. 00:19:06.325 --> 00:19:10.215 If you were speaking to a younger you with all of the stuff that we've talked 00:19:10.215 --> 00:19:12.805 about, all of the things that you've learned, all of the cool stuff that 00:19:12.805 --> 00:19:17.121 you've built, is there any advice you would give to you from 10, 15 years ago? 00:19:17.121 --> 00:19:19.343 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: think it is just remembering that if you 00:19:19.343 --> 00:19:22.623 want to do something that people around you haven't done before, don't expect them 00:19:22.623 --> 00:19:25.733 to get on board and be your cheerleaders and have advice for you because they've 00:19:25.733 --> 00:19:29.413 just never done it before, so like, really go and find those spaces that encourage 00:19:29.413 --> 00:19:34.068 what you're doing and can support you, like a startup space like, maybe something 00:19:34.068 --> 00:19:37.278 for like women in tech if you want to build something just places you can be 00:19:37.278 --> 00:19:41.638 encouraged and feel You know safe and heard and that what you're doing is valid 00:19:42.288 --> 00:19:45.238 because I think surrounding yourself by those people who are in the same space 00:19:45.238 --> 00:19:46.888 as you just really helps you kick off. 00:19:47.533 --> 00:19:48.033 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Amazing. 00:19:48.118 --> 00:19:48.808 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: you find that too? 00:19:49.658 --> 00:19:50.378 Landing in Volta? 00:19:50.653 --> 00:19:52.413 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Oh yeah, for sure. 00:19:52.413 --> 00:19:54.013 For Volta, like. 00:19:54.583 --> 00:19:58.503 I found another community here in Vancouver that I found really lovely, 00:19:58.503 --> 00:20:02.503 which is Launch Academy, but there was something about Volta in particular. 00:20:02.823 --> 00:20:06.753 I think the fact that you could go in and work from the space. 00:20:06.753 --> 00:20:12.653 With zero dollars you can just go hang out and sit at a desk, have some internet, 00:20:12.853 --> 00:20:18.023 connect with some cool people and just, they, I feel like they did a good job 00:20:18.023 --> 00:20:20.303 of like curating the community, right? 00:20:20.303 --> 00:20:25.093 Like saying, okay, yeah, you feel like you would be a good fit for this community. 00:20:25.093 --> 00:20:27.673 You've got like skills or something to contribute. 00:20:27.873 --> 00:20:30.923 Are you willing and ready to like help people out and 00:20:30.923 --> 00:20:32.483 participate and stuff like that? 00:20:32.958 --> 00:20:37.998 And yeah, I feel like they, they built an environment that was 00:20:38.008 --> 00:20:43.248 so conducive to getting people interested in, entrepreneurship, 00:20:43.248 --> 00:20:47.418 interested in tech and how you can do something cool with that yeah. 00:20:47.628 --> 00:20:48.508 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: they really did. 00:20:48.548 --> 00:20:51.158 I feel like looking back at that time too, it's just like a 00:20:51.158 --> 00:20:53.908 reminder to just show up in those spaces and be your authentic self. 00:20:53.938 --> 00:20:56.868 Like, it's okay to go in and not be, like, for the job you're 00:20:56.868 --> 00:20:58.198 looking for at the end of it. 00:20:58.218 --> 00:21:01.498 Like, it's okay to just show up with excitement and questions and curiosity 00:21:01.498 --> 00:21:03.978 and tell people what you're dreaming of because they'll step in and help 00:21:03.978 --> 00:21:07.108 you out instead of you all the mistakes you'll make along that journey, 00:21:07.108 --> 00:21:07.478 right? 00:21:08.668 --> 00:21:09.148 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah. 00:21:09.618 --> 00:21:10.188 Totally. 00:21:10.188 --> 00:21:11.260 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: mistake are you laughing about 00:21:11.260 --> 00:21:11.520 there? 00:21:11.629 --> 00:21:13.579 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Uh, so many 00:21:14.890 --> 00:21:15.580 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: So many, I 00:21:15.619 --> 00:21:16.129 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah. 00:21:16.219 --> 00:21:16.759 Yeah. 00:21:16.849 --> 00:21:21.169 But having that community around to just help you out, be like, it's okay. 00:21:21.169 --> 00:21:24.499 Like you can, you can get past this, you can get through this. 00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:24.959 yeah. 00:21:25.760 --> 00:21:27.490 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: Yeah, or probably the person next to 00:21:27.490 --> 00:21:30.860 you already made the mistake and is so happy to share how they didn't do that 00:21:30.890 --> 00:21:33.240 before you just run straight into it. 00:21:33.250 --> 00:21:33.720 So, 00:21:33.919 --> 00:21:34.459 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Yeah. 00:21:34.969 --> 00:21:36.769 Also free pizza, free pizza's. 00:21:36.769 --> 00:21:37.369 Always good. 00:21:37.369 --> 00:21:37.951 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: gets you far. 00:21:37.961 --> 00:21:38.971 Free pizza and Red Bull. 00:21:40.060 --> 00:21:41.350 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Um, okay. 00:21:41.530 --> 00:21:41.740 Yeah, 00:21:41.740 --> 00:21:42.005 Sorry go. 00:21:42.077 --> 00:21:42.747 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: was just gonna say I don't 00:21:42.747 --> 00:21:43.577 need that Red Bull anymore. 00:21:43.577 --> 00:21:44.217 I don't know about you, 00:21:44.257 --> 00:21:44.477 but 00:21:44.636 --> 00:21:48.286 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Did I ever tell you that I, when, uh, 00:21:48.296 --> 00:21:52.199 when I was at Volta, I had this thing where I went to the gym afterwards and 00:21:52.199 --> 00:21:53.749 my head just felt like it exploded. 00:21:53.749 --> 00:21:55.139 Did I tell you about that? 00:21:55.780 --> 00:21:56.290 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: I think so. 00:21:56.290 --> 00:21:57.820 And you're not the only person that happened to. 00:21:59.089 --> 00:22:00.199 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: And then the doctor's going, you 00:22:00.199 --> 00:22:02.039 got to cut down on the Red Bulls. 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:03.939 Yeah. 00:22:03.939 --> 00:22:05.099 Too much free Red Bull. 00:22:05.099 --> 00:22:05.761 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: much. 00:22:06.109 --> 00:22:06.499 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: Cool. 00:22:06.509 --> 00:22:12.819 So I think one last thing, we like to wrap these up with a small tech product 00:22:12.819 --> 00:22:18.409 recommendation, which I think I asked you if you had something ready, but 00:22:18.409 --> 00:22:19.831 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: I kind of want to go ahead and recommend 00:22:19.841 --> 00:22:25.071 you go check out MyKidsFuture and send a letter to your MP because it's very 00:22:25.071 --> 00:22:26.851 much on theme for this podcast today. 00:22:26.861 --> 00:22:30.221 And everyone should be writing a letter on behalf of somebody in their life. 00:22:30.525 --> 00:22:31.335 raph--he-him-_1_05-02-2024_094613: I love it. 00:22:31.345 --> 00:22:32.915 That is a great recommendation. 00:22:32.935 --> 00:22:35.935 So again, mykidsfuture.ca go check it out. 00:22:35.945 --> 00:22:36.985 Send that letter. 00:22:37.035 --> 00:22:38.105 it's important cool. 00:22:38.475 --> 00:22:39.825 Well, thank you so much, Liz. 00:22:39.835 --> 00:22:41.395 It was really fun chatting with you. 00:22:41.395 --> 00:22:42.875 It's always fun chatting with you. 00:22:43.155 --> 00:22:45.415 Um, and thanks for coming on the podcast. 00:22:45.415 --> 00:22:46.227 liz-gosselin--she-her-_1_05-02-2024_134613: Thanks for having me, Raph. 00:22:46.277 --> 00:22:46.947 This was great. 00:22:47.281 --> 00:22:49.261 Thronmax MDrill One Pro & USB Video: And that was my conversation with the 00:22:49.261 --> 00:22:52.111 amazing Liz Gosselin of R and G strategic. 00:22:52.111 --> 00:22:57.681 You can find her, her work, her company's work at rgstrategic.com. 00:22:58.021 --> 00:23:03.391 You can find us at smalltechpodcast.com and on YouTube, on Spotify and 00:23:03.391 --> 00:23:07.411 everywhere else where fine podcasts are sold or, you know, distributed. 00:23:07.461 --> 00:23:10.431 So like, and subscribe, it really helps us out. 00:23:10.511 --> 00:23:14.951 If you head to smalltechpodcasts.com, you can find the newsletter. 00:23:14.951 --> 00:23:17.231 And if you want to be a guest on the podcast in the 00:23:17.231 --> 00:23:18.581 future, just reach out to us. 00:23:18.581 --> 00:23:21.911 We would love to talk to you about your journey building small tech products. 00:23:21.941 --> 00:23:24.781 Oh, also, go check out mykidsfuture.ca. 00:23:24.871 --> 00:23:27.241 We're really proud of the project and the work we did 00:23:27.241 --> 00:23:29.911 with Liz and R and G strategic. 00:23:29.911 --> 00:23:32.911 We really hope it can have an impact here in Canada. 00:23:32.961 --> 00:23:35.781 Thronmax MDrill One Pro & USB Video-1: And that's it for this week's episode and we 00:23:35.781 --> 00:23:37.311 all want to do good in the world folks. 00:23:37.341 --> 00:23:39.921 So go out there and build something good. 00:23:39.921 --> 00:23:41.901 I'll see you in the next one. 00:23:41.961 --> 00:23:42.621 See ya.