1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,080 Matt, welcome to the Evolve Radio podcast. Thank you so much 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,265 for having me, Todd. Alright. So we'll get started. 3 00:00:09,725 --> 00:00:13,245 Just a bit of background and intro for yourself, your history in the 4 00:00:13,245 --> 00:00:16,625 MSP, and the company that you're operating in now. 5 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:21,120 Yeah. Definitely. So today, I'm a cofounder 6 00:00:21,180 --> 00:00:24,904 and COO of Thread. But in a former life, I was an 7 00:00:24,904 --> 00:00:28,425 operations professional with an MSP by the name of Richard 8 00:00:28,425 --> 00:00:32,265 Fleischman and Associates, RFA for short, based out of New 9 00:00:32,265 --> 00:00:35,680 York City. And so they focused on financial services 10 00:00:35,739 --> 00:00:39,360 companies, hedge and private equity, primarily 11 00:00:39,980 --> 00:00:43,125 joined them on the the compliance side back in, like, 2013, 12 00:00:43,504 --> 00:00:47,344 2014 when the SEC decided that they cared a 13 00:00:47,344 --> 00:00:50,940 little bit about cybersecurity, not enough to regulate it, 14 00:00:51,180 --> 00:00:54,800 but certainly enough to issue guidance and guidelines. And so 15 00:00:54,940 --> 00:00:58,399 that was an interesting time to be starting your career, in technology. 16 00:00:59,645 --> 00:01:03,325 Promoted through there into account management, so I had about a 100 funds 17 00:01:03,325 --> 00:01:07,165 underneath of Eden, and then on through the ops tree to, to chief of 18 00:01:07,165 --> 00:01:10,800 staff. Excellent. So an operator by 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,500 nature, so we're we're fast friends, I think, because of 20 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,405 our our views of business in that that respect for sure. Got that 21 00:01:18,405 --> 00:01:22,244 right. Alright. So, some of your your 22 00:01:22,244 --> 00:01:25,685 background, I'm I'm I'm I am curious, like, we we maybe talked a bit about 23 00:01:25,685 --> 00:01:27,659 this in in some of the lead in as well, but, 24 00:01:29,500 --> 00:01:33,340 you what about sort of the operations side of the business as you 25 00:01:33,340 --> 00:01:37,165 were kinda growing up in in in the MSP that you worked at? 26 00:01:37,525 --> 00:01:40,805 You know, eventually you sort of get pulled out of some of the technical things 27 00:01:40,805 --> 00:01:44,259 and I suppose like maybe if it's relevant, compliance is a very 28 00:01:44,259 --> 00:01:48,020 specific type of technical work. Right? Like it's not like a lot of other 29 00:01:48,020 --> 00:01:50,680 things. It's more sort of governance, very procedural. 30 00:01:51,635 --> 00:01:55,395 Did you were you always sort of wired towards the operations side of the 31 00:01:55,395 --> 00:01:59,235 business? Was that of interest? And and sort of how did you get pulled further 32 00:01:59,235 --> 00:02:02,520 into the business side of things versus the technology side? 33 00:02:03,220 --> 00:02:06,900 Yeah. So I didn't have a technical background at in school. I 34 00:02:06,900 --> 00:02:10,040 actually studied English. I had a technical writing minor. 35 00:02:10,514 --> 00:02:13,974 And, that's that's how I ended up being in in kind of 36 00:02:14,515 --> 00:02:17,495 a documentation heavy role like a business analyst, 37 00:02:17,875 --> 00:02:21,590 slash compliance analyst with the MSP. And I found 38 00:02:21,590 --> 00:02:24,730 it a very helpful way to get a really strong foundation 39 00:02:25,030 --> 00:02:28,425 layer, in terms of technology. I didn't know what a 40 00:02:28,425 --> 00:02:32,185 Cisco ASA was. I didn't know what a switch was. I I didn't know 41 00:02:32,185 --> 00:02:36,019 anything about UTM and, you know, MDR and EDR and all the 42 00:02:36,019 --> 00:02:39,140 good stuff, all all the good acronyms that we could throw out there. And so 43 00:02:39,140 --> 00:02:42,040 it was a great education for me in that, 44 00:02:43,255 --> 00:02:46,955 you know, we would have a technical due diligence service whereby 45 00:02:47,175 --> 00:02:50,890 we would audit a hedge fund's environment, document it, 46 00:02:50,890 --> 00:02:54,569 and then present it back to a prospective investor of theirs to 47 00:02:54,569 --> 00:02:58,010 say, this is how they're protected. This is how they're secured. This is how they're 48 00:02:58,010 --> 00:03:01,815 backed up. And this is what they're doing in terms of, BCDRS. 49 00:03:03,395 --> 00:03:07,235 And so for me, it was a great education in that sense, like I 50 00:03:07,235 --> 00:03:10,890 said. But it evolved into migrating from 51 00:03:11,030 --> 00:03:14,490 an in house, ticketing system to ConnectWise 52 00:03:14,710 --> 00:03:18,355 manage, for for the business. And so I I really 53 00:03:18,355 --> 00:03:22,194 dove deep into, well, how did the workflows that we're doing in the 54 00:03:22,194 --> 00:03:26,040 existing system map to manage, and how do I 55 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,739 help to migrate the business from from this to that. And so I think 56 00:03:29,959 --> 00:03:31,580 that was really my directional, 57 00:03:33,575 --> 00:03:36,315 evolution, I would say, into the the ops side of the house. 58 00:03:37,015 --> 00:03:40,400 K. Interesting. Yeah. So nontechnical background 59 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,400 and now working in a very, very tech heavy industry. So did did you find 60 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,159 the learning curve on that sort of heavy or, like, especially in the account management 61 00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:50,965 phase? I imagine there was a point where you were kind of faking it till 62 00:03:50,965 --> 00:03:54,725 you make it type thing and learning enough in the background. Oh, yeah. 63 00:03:54,725 --> 00:03:57,945 Yeah. So I I remember on my first day, actually, 64 00:03:58,485 --> 00:04:02,070 I I walked into into a conference room, and it 65 00:04:02,070 --> 00:04:05,290 was the man with his name on the wall, Richard Fleischmann, 66 00:04:07,110 --> 00:04:10,775 with my future boss, our c COO at the time, 67 00:04:10,775 --> 00:04:14,614 Johan, and our CTO and, like, the whole c suite. And we were 68 00:04:14,614 --> 00:04:17,915 putting together an RFP proposal response. 69 00:04:19,260 --> 00:04:22,700 And so, again, that was another way to really get a good understanding, lay the 70 00:04:22,700 --> 00:04:26,060 land for, like, how do you position technology as an 71 00:04:26,060 --> 00:04:29,565 advantage for your prospective customer in the future? 72 00:04:30,264 --> 00:04:33,785 So the the combination of those two items, I found to 73 00:04:33,785 --> 00:04:37,169 be super, super helpful. But, also, when you got 74 00:04:37,169 --> 00:04:40,789 to the the account management, side of things, it's it's about 75 00:04:41,090 --> 00:04:44,845 understanding where the technology estate is today, you know, 76 00:04:44,905 --> 00:04:48,745 where where there are gaps, if there are gaps, and then helping them navigate 77 00:04:48,745 --> 00:04:52,280 to what it should look look like in the future, whether it's a cloud 78 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:55,580 based environment or upgrading their SAN, so on and so forth. 79 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,880 And, it was a really it was a great broad education again without kind 80 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:03,595 of having to get too too deep. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. 81 00:05:03,595 --> 00:05:07,355 Cool. So, you know, you've you've, like, 82 00:05:07,355 --> 00:05:10,715 what what was the transition, I suppose? Like, you you were working there and 83 00:05:10,715 --> 00:05:14,320 then, you guys got sort of went off 84 00:05:14,460 --> 00:05:18,220 and created this product originally ChatGenie for people who sort of recognize that 85 00:05:18,220 --> 00:05:22,045 name and now Thread. What was that transition look like? Like how did you 86 00:05:22,045 --> 00:05:25,725 go from, you know, account manager into non technical 87 00:05:25,725 --> 00:05:29,420 background working inside this this MSP to, you know, 88 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:33,100 starting, you know, a very a very sort of, like, MSP 89 00:05:33,100 --> 00:05:36,815 centric, software company. It seems like a pretty pretty dramatic 90 00:05:36,875 --> 00:05:40,634 change, of course, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And so, 91 00:05:41,970 --> 00:05:45,730 after I was promoted out of account management into operations, I was 92 00:05:45,730 --> 00:05:49,490 running the ConnectBlaz stack for for the company, with with 93 00:05:49,490 --> 00:05:53,025 help of a few folks. And so I really got to see 94 00:05:53,325 --> 00:05:57,165 how the the business, like, relied on it and 95 00:05:57,165 --> 00:05:59,985 interrelated on the platform very intimately. 96 00:06:01,310 --> 00:06:04,690 And so I started to engage with the community a little bit looking for solutions. 97 00:06:04,830 --> 00:06:08,669 Maybe there were there were shortcuts for me to be able to, you 98 00:06:08,669 --> 00:06:11,995 know, use it as leverage for the business at scale. 99 00:06:12,375 --> 00:06:15,514 And I I wish, that I had found evolved 100 00:06:16,055 --> 00:06:19,789 management, back then and and known more about Todd King, because it would 101 00:06:19,789 --> 00:06:23,629 have, saved me some steps. But, but at the time, 102 00:06:23,789 --> 00:06:27,605 that's when I started to really fall in love with the MSP channel 103 00:06:27,605 --> 00:06:31,365 and community, you know, going on Reddit, seeing 104 00:06:31,365 --> 00:06:34,870 posts from from Ray or Sydney and the the, OIT VoIP 105 00:06:35,030 --> 00:06:38,389 folks. But also at the at the 106 00:06:38,389 --> 00:06:41,370 time, Mark Goliath, who's the CEO of Thread 107 00:06:42,070 --> 00:06:44,345 rejoined RFA, and we shared an 108 00:06:53,810 --> 00:06:57,590 and that's when we decided to to launch, what would become ChatGenie. 109 00:06:58,850 --> 00:07:02,630 Awesome. K. Cool. So, you know, my introduction to ChatGenie 110 00:07:03,575 --> 00:07:07,355 was was I think sort of, like, a similar need 111 00:07:07,415 --> 00:07:10,670 than that that, you know, I think maybe you guys are trying to fill and 112 00:07:10,910 --> 00:07:14,430 maybe verify this for me. But, whenever I would talk to 113 00:07:14,430 --> 00:07:17,950 organizations about chat, the like, all of the options out 114 00:07:17,950 --> 00:07:21,445 there were very sort of sales centric. Right? There 115 00:07:21,445 --> 00:07:25,205 wasn't a lot of sort of, chat options. And for me, 116 00:07:25,205 --> 00:07:28,805 like, the reason that I loved, chat is is way back in the day 117 00:07:28,805 --> 00:07:32,410 we'd use this product, Bombgar, that I guess still exists, 118 00:07:32,550 --> 00:07:36,310 but, you know, it's it's extremely enterprise. Like, the the amount that we 119 00:07:36,310 --> 00:07:39,285 spent for the box that had to sit in our office to kinda manage this 120 00:07:39,285 --> 00:07:42,965 stuff was obscene. Like, it was very, very, very expensive 121 00:07:42,965 --> 00:07:46,430 for what we were trying to run. And every time like, I 122 00:07:46,430 --> 00:07:49,950 loved using chat, but I just didn't find it really 123 00:07:49,950 --> 00:07:53,755 applicable or cost effective, it didn't integrate with any 124 00:07:53,755 --> 00:07:57,275 of the tools. So, you know, when I finally found ChatGenie, I was like, well, 125 00:07:57,275 --> 00:08:01,110 great. Like, here is an MSP tool that actually fits into all 126 00:08:01,110 --> 00:08:04,550 the things that you're already utilizing. That was a real game changer for 127 00:08:04,550 --> 00:08:08,230 me. So, you know, you guys started as that. 128 00:08:08,710 --> 00:08:12,345 I guess the transition to thread and sort of what you're building 129 00:08:12,345 --> 00:08:15,865 much beyond, just a chat interface for 130 00:08:15,865 --> 00:08:19,599 tickets. Maybe you can sort of start there of the sort of the history 131 00:08:19,599 --> 00:08:23,280 and then the transition of the company. Yeah. Definitely. And 132 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,005 we started from almost like a chat ops lens. We we just wanted to 133 00:08:27,005 --> 00:08:30,625 connect the internal ticketing system and the internal, 134 00:08:31,085 --> 00:08:34,710 collaboration platform together so that, you know, we saw the 135 00:08:34,710 --> 00:08:38,470 people were talking about tickets in in Slack, but then had to 136 00:08:38,470 --> 00:08:42,105 replicate all of that data back into the system of 137 00:08:42,105 --> 00:08:45,945 record, which was the PSA. And we felt like, you 138 00:08:45,945 --> 00:08:49,790 know, above and beyond the duplication of effort that there were there 139 00:08:49,790 --> 00:08:53,570 would or could be opportunities for automation, you know, triggering 140 00:08:53,790 --> 00:08:57,584 a a workflow based on an approval, things of that nature, right 141 00:08:57,584 --> 00:09:01,345 from where you you're you're living and breathing every day, which is the 142 00:09:01,345 --> 00:09:02,565 the collaboration platform. 143 00:09:05,060 --> 00:09:08,820 We brought it to IT Nation, IT Nation Connect as 144 00:09:08,820 --> 00:09:12,260 it's called now, when we decided to, build the 145 00:09:12,260 --> 00:09:15,965 MVP. And we we showed it to other MSPs, and people 146 00:09:15,965 --> 00:09:19,325 were like, oh, man. This is awesome. You know, we love this. But we're moving 147 00:09:19,325 --> 00:09:22,980 to Microsoft Teams because Teams was then bundled into the 365, 148 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,300 suite of products. So we're like, okay. Great. Back to the drawing board. 149 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,245 We then built the team's integration, brought it back the next year, 150 00:09:31,305 --> 00:09:35,144 and was like, oh, man. Awesome. Let's check this out. And then COVID happened and 151 00:09:35,144 --> 00:09:38,510 everybody dispersed, both customers and, 152 00:09:38,910 --> 00:09:42,589 MSP, like, the the the technicians. And 153 00:09:42,589 --> 00:09:46,385 then that's when we really had a big realization, which 154 00:09:46,845 --> 00:09:50,685 is nobody's and you had come to it before us. It sounds like nobody's 155 00:09:50,685 --> 00:09:54,225 really solving for the the customer to MSP 156 00:09:55,510 --> 00:09:58,950 collaboration, and experience in a way that integrates 157 00:09:58,950 --> 00:10:02,730 natively with the stack and connects to the system of record. And so 158 00:10:02,995 --> 00:10:06,535 that's when we set out to raise a little bit of funding and, ultimately 159 00:10:06,595 --> 00:10:10,274 became Thread. K. Very cool. So you kind of alluded 160 00:10:10,274 --> 00:10:13,770 to working inside of, the the chat 161 00:10:13,770 --> 00:10:17,210 platform. Right? And I I think generationally and just sort of 162 00:10:17,210 --> 00:10:20,995 operationally, like, we see this this change happening. I'm 163 00:10:20,995 --> 00:10:24,615 curious sort of your you you gave sort of one, piece there around, 164 00:10:25,155 --> 00:10:28,675 like, the the the having notes in system of record because you're a 165 00:10:28,675 --> 00:10:32,110 100% right. Like, you see so much discussion about 166 00:10:32,110 --> 00:10:35,950 issues happening in the chat platform that is not captured anywhere else, you 167 00:10:35,950 --> 00:10:38,895 know. So, the only notes that you have is, 168 00:10:39,595 --> 00:10:43,195 escalated, talk to a couple of people about this. You know? Here's the 169 00:10:43,195 --> 00:10:46,720 resolution that I found. It's like, okay. What happened offline? Like, now we have no 170 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,480 information, but there's all this discussion that happens in the chat plan, but the platform 171 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,160 outside of that. So I think having that information actually captured in the ticket 172 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,795 is is huge. What are some of the other advantages you think 173 00:10:57,795 --> 00:11:01,555 of operating inside of the like, a Teams 174 00:11:01,555 --> 00:11:05,050 or a chat platform like that instead of inside the 175 00:11:05,050 --> 00:11:08,670 PSA? Yeah. It's a real time interface, 176 00:11:09,210 --> 00:11:12,955 and you're having real time conversations. So I think that's that's one major 177 00:11:12,955 --> 00:11:16,635 advantage. The other is that, and the reason that we landed 178 00:11:16,635 --> 00:11:20,235 on chat as, our web, so to speak, or where we 179 00:11:20,235 --> 00:11:23,589 wanted to add a lot of value to the to to the MSP 180 00:11:23,649 --> 00:11:27,170 community is that it's, it's real time, but 181 00:11:27,170 --> 00:11:30,875 also it's it's, you know, ordered in time and 182 00:11:30,875 --> 00:11:34,575 it's text and and database. It's something that you can integrate, 183 00:11:34,955 --> 00:11:38,750 well into, unlike email where it's like a 184 00:11:38,890 --> 00:11:42,650 a turn based strategy game, and chat or 185 00:11:42,650 --> 00:11:46,190 phone, which is more of like a m m m o r p g 186 00:11:46,315 --> 00:11:50,075 or like a a real time game where you you get your, your 187 00:11:50,075 --> 00:11:53,520 squad together and you attack these these problems as they come up. 188 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,600 And, you know, for us, that means there's a lot of opportunities to, 189 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,980 again, trigger workflows, whether it be on the the customer side 190 00:12:01,495 --> 00:12:05,275 or within the MSP, because it is integrated. 191 00:12:05,335 --> 00:12:09,150 It meets people where they work. K. Cool. And 192 00:12:09,150 --> 00:12:12,030 I guess this is timely as well because, like, I had a I had a 193 00:12:12,030 --> 00:12:15,630 conversation with a client, yesterday about sort of, like like, how do we 194 00:12:15,630 --> 00:12:18,584 actually integrate chat to to our current workload. 195 00:12:19,524 --> 00:12:23,204 And you've kinda shared with me before, something you're releasing which 196 00:12:23,204 --> 00:12:26,680 will be in the wild by the time this this, episode goes to air. So 197 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:30,520 it's it's safe for us to talk about it. But, one of 198 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,295 sort of the interesting parts of this is, like, there's some there's there's there's some 199 00:12:34,295 --> 00:12:37,815 ideas around how chat is engaged in and where it's 200 00:12:37,815 --> 00:12:41,515 relevant as far as a support modality. Right? So Mhmm. Incidents 201 00:12:41,575 --> 00:12:44,960 versus requests, just sort of the quick, sort of, 202 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,760 dictionary definition for people. Incidents are things like something is broken. 203 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,384 I need help with this. A request is something like, hey. Could you do this 204 00:12:53,384 --> 00:12:56,904 for me? It's not actually some like a something broken or something I 205 00:12:56,904 --> 00:13:00,745 necessarily need immediately, but it's it's something that needs to be sort of planned 206 00:13:00,745 --> 00:13:04,440 for to get done. And historically, I guess, 207 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,040 like, chat makes sense for things that actively need to happen 208 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,855 because, like you said, it's it's an active engagement. It's a it's 209 00:13:11,855 --> 00:13:15,615 a a sort of a form of synchronous engagement with someone to 210 00:13:15,615 --> 00:13:19,375 ask and it feels sort of like timely. And maybe that 211 00:13:19,375 --> 00:13:22,960 doesn't feel as relevant for, just putting in, like, an 212 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,800 onboarding a user or an you know, changing equipment to a 213 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,560 different office or, you know, scheduling something to happen at the end of the week, 214 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,585 that sort of thing. So you guys have kinda captured this and and are rolling 215 00:13:33,585 --> 00:13:37,185 out a a new feature, to allow for this different 216 00:13:37,185 --> 00:13:40,880 engagement in in sort of time You wanna expand a bit 217 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,640 on this this feature? Yeah. Definitely. And and I'll I'll I 218 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,345 think I'll start by taking it up a level before, digging 219 00:13:48,345 --> 00:13:51,865 into the the feature, which is we tend to think of things on, 220 00:13:52,345 --> 00:13:56,100 if you think about the classic, like, t or 221 00:13:56,100 --> 00:13:59,700 or cross, diagram where you 222 00:13:59,700 --> 00:14:03,400 have complexity and urgency, as the 2, 223 00:14:04,305 --> 00:14:07,925 the 2 parts of that, the 2 by 2 matrix. Yep. 224 00:14:08,145 --> 00:14:11,925 Exactly. The the 2, vertices or axes. 225 00:14:12,899 --> 00:14:16,579 And so for things that are high urgency but low 226 00:14:16,579 --> 00:14:20,180 complexity, I think that's where chat shines, both from an 227 00:14:20,180 --> 00:14:24,025 incident and a request standpoint where it's high complexity 228 00:14:24,245 --> 00:14:27,925 and and high urgency that for us feels like it should be a a phone 229 00:14:27,925 --> 00:14:30,825 call, right, where it can be escalated to the right person right away. 230 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,600 And then there's the the spots between the 2 where it's like, you 231 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,440 know, low urgency, low complexity. Again, probably a great place for for 232 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,214 chat to shine. And so it's really all about being 233 00:14:43,214 --> 00:14:47,055 intentional and having a point of view on, training your 234 00:14:47,055 --> 00:14:50,620 users on when to use the the best of each each 235 00:14:50,620 --> 00:14:54,160 scenario, each modality based on those factors. 236 00:14:55,340 --> 00:14:58,700 You you can distill it down into there's work that needs to be done now 237 00:14:58,700 --> 00:15:02,375 versus not now, and we've really optimized an 238 00:15:02,375 --> 00:15:06,135 index on the the now side of things. Historically, what 239 00:15:06,135 --> 00:15:09,850 we're launching now is, is a it's a product or a feature 240 00:15:09,850 --> 00:15:13,370 called Planner, which introduces the concept of 241 00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:17,050 scheduling into the platform whereby we can now field 242 00:15:17,050 --> 00:15:20,865 or triage stuff now and then book it out, schedule it 243 00:15:21,004 --> 00:15:24,225 for for stuff that falls into the not now category 244 00:15:24,764 --> 00:15:28,365 without having to go back into the PSA to schedule 245 00:15:28,365 --> 00:15:32,110 it. Right. And what you shared before, is, 246 00:15:32,350 --> 00:15:35,730 this will satisfy all the Kanban nerds that wanna schedule 247 00:15:36,435 --> 00:15:40,274 cards for for your tickets. This, satisfies that itch as well, so 248 00:15:40,274 --> 00:15:44,115 I'm sure a ton of people will appreciate that. That's right. That's right. It's 249 00:15:44,115 --> 00:15:47,700 a it's a kanban. Like, everything's drag drag and droppable 250 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,280 and sortable and, reorderable and 251 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,714 filterable. So it's a it's a very smooth dynamic, 252 00:15:55,495 --> 00:15:59,334 view that we're really excited to to launch. Yeah. And people 253 00:15:59,334 --> 00:16:02,860 that love it do absolutely love it. So that'll be great to see. Alright. 254 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,960 I'm curiously the other piece around, sort of chat as a as 255 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,660 a modality, you know, Teams is prolific 256 00:16:12,425 --> 00:16:16,185 in because it comes well, it used to, come with 257 00:16:16,185 --> 00:16:19,785 Office 365. And, for those that don't know, they they were 258 00:16:19,785 --> 00:16:22,610 forced to sort of like, make it a side cart option, 259 00:16:23,389 --> 00:16:26,209 because of, I guess, an FTC regulation. 260 00:16:27,149 --> 00:16:30,695 So, but generally, most in most offices 261 00:16:31,075 --> 00:16:34,915 have teams, but most, I would say, don't actually 262 00:16:34,915 --> 00:16:38,135 leverage it. And I think, a, this is a serve an open, 263 00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:42,650 green space for MSPs to leverage this as an opportunity 264 00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:46,170 to drive Teams as a communication, option 265 00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:49,715 in their client base. But for those that don't have 266 00:16:49,715 --> 00:16:53,555 that, some may say, well, you know, this sounds great, but, 267 00:16:53,555 --> 00:16:57,250 you know, my my clients don't use Teams and therefore they 268 00:16:57,250 --> 00:17:00,790 wouldn't communicate with me in chat. And so, like, 269 00:17:01,570 --> 00:17:05,155 is that wrong? How would you sort of push back on that 270 00:17:05,155 --> 00:17:08,675 as a sort of a well, this doesn't qualify for me because my clients don't 271 00:17:08,675 --> 00:17:12,210 use Teams? Yeah. I think, you know, 272 00:17:12,210 --> 00:17:14,790 in the future, we we aim to be much more, 273 00:17:15,970 --> 00:17:19,730 omnichannel. And what I mean by that is we believe in in 274 00:17:19,730 --> 00:17:23,575 a world where all channels have a place and a time 275 00:17:23,575 --> 00:17:26,935 and and a a use that's best fit for that 276 00:17:26,935 --> 00:17:30,695 channel. And, really, it's about orchestrating an experience across all 277 00:17:30,695 --> 00:17:34,280 of those channels, right person, right place, right 278 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,460 time, right communication style. 279 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,225 So, you know, taking it back from the the grand vision, 280 00:17:41,605 --> 00:17:44,825 what that means for today is, you know, we do have a a desktop, 281 00:17:45,525 --> 00:17:49,029 application in the system tray that they can launch much like, 282 00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:52,870 a screen connect or, like, a lab tech, type 283 00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:56,705 experience, except it'll be branded for your MSP, and it'll feel 284 00:17:56,705 --> 00:18:00,305 exactly like the modality for your your customers who are in 285 00:18:00,305 --> 00:18:03,990 Teams or or Slack. We can also stand up a 286 00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:07,830 plug in on your website or their Internet. Really, it's about 287 00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:11,429 it's about meeting them where they work and, making sure that it's 288 00:18:11,429 --> 00:18:14,705 a smooth and frictionless experience, wherever that might be. 289 00:18:15,804 --> 00:18:19,590 Okay. One of the really important pieces for for that type 290 00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:22,889 of, like, agent based, communication, option, 291 00:18:23,429 --> 00:18:27,129 is a presence indicator. It was always one of my favorite things. Like, going back, 292 00:18:27,585 --> 00:18:30,865 know, back in the day, I built one of the largest linked link, 293 00:18:31,184 --> 00:18:34,780 practices. So the predecessor actually for Teams, was the 294 00:18:35,020 --> 00:18:38,320 the, MS Microsoft voice communication software. 295 00:18:39,020 --> 00:18:42,755 And one of the selling features that was so what's that? Was 296 00:18:42,755 --> 00:18:46,595 it Microsoft Office Communicator? Is that, my data? Yeah. 297 00:18:46,595 --> 00:18:50,435 Yeah. And Lync was was the product. Yeah. That I guess it eventually 298 00:18:50,435 --> 00:18:54,260 became. Yeah. I think it was communicator then link and then now, sort of MS 299 00:18:54,260 --> 00:18:57,860 Teams Voice. Yep. And, one of the the 300 00:18:57,860 --> 00:19:01,615 biggest selling features for that product is was the jelly bean indicator 301 00:19:01,615 --> 00:19:05,294 of software indication of whether or not someone's actually available. You know, to 302 00:19:05,294 --> 00:19:08,630 this day, this is sort of under leveraged, right, as people don't 303 00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:12,410 necessarily kinda capitalize this on communicating someone's availability. 304 00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:17,350 But, where I also found this really, really useful was, again, kinda 305 00:19:17,350 --> 00:19:21,195 using chat in the past was, having a presence indicator as to whether or 306 00:19:21,195 --> 00:19:24,475 not the person was at their desk to be able to reach out to them. 307 00:19:24,475 --> 00:19:27,930 And one of the things that we hate in the MSP ecosystem is 308 00:19:27,930 --> 00:19:31,530 telephone tag. It wastes Mhmm. So much time. Right? And you have 309 00:19:31,530 --> 00:19:35,184 this this support ticket and the sales guy says I need this 310 00:19:35,184 --> 00:19:38,784 fixed right away and every time you call him he's on a call with somebody 311 00:19:38,784 --> 00:19:41,345 else and he can't like, oh, I got I'm busy. I can't do this right 312 00:19:41,345 --> 00:19:45,000 now. Or the executive that is never 313 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,440 seems to be at their desk because they're traveling and don't don't have time to 314 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,320 help you with this. And there's some tools out there that will help you with 315 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,144 the scheduling of this, but I really like the fact that these 316 00:19:55,144 --> 00:19:58,904 chat tools, you can sort of like scan through your tickets and see that, 317 00:19:58,904 --> 00:20:02,580 oh, this person is actually on their computer. I can push a message to them 318 00:20:02,580 --> 00:20:05,720 and say, hey. I see you're available. Can I support you with this right now? 319 00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:09,380 Boom. Like, cuts through all that noise. I have to assume this is well, I 320 00:20:09,380 --> 00:20:12,404 hope this is something that you guys are are gonna be able to leverage in 321 00:20:13,125 --> 00:20:16,965 as a an engagement model for those clients. Yeah. 322 00:20:16,965 --> 00:20:20,140 Yeah. So we don't have a presence indicator today, but it is very much, 323 00:20:20,620 --> 00:20:24,140 on the road map. And it's something that I I totally agree with 324 00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:27,965 conceptually in that, you know, the beauty of having 325 00:20:27,965 --> 00:20:31,804 a footprint wherever the user is is that the 326 00:20:31,804 --> 00:20:35,580 the need for phone tag or or email tag, right, goes 327 00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:39,280 away. You stay connected. You have access to them when you need them. 328 00:20:39,340 --> 00:20:42,860 It's not just them finding a an email address or a phone 329 00:20:42,860 --> 00:20:46,595 number or having to remember to go to a a customer portal to ask 330 00:20:46,595 --> 00:20:49,955 for an update on something. They can get it right in their 331 00:20:49,955 --> 00:20:53,770 workflow, and they can get back to you, you know, when it's convenient for 332 00:20:53,770 --> 00:20:57,230 them or, you know, same goes for for for the MSP, 333 00:20:57,850 --> 00:21:01,274 when it's convenient for for you all. You can get in touch when you know 334 00:21:01,274 --> 00:21:04,955 that they're available. Yeah. Right on. Okay. I'll I'll look 335 00:21:04,955 --> 00:21:07,934 forward to to to those that feature for sure. 336 00:21:08,580 --> 00:21:12,420 The, I guess the other piece to to consider here is rollout. Right? 337 00:21:12,420 --> 00:21:15,860 So, for organizations that don't have a current 338 00:21:15,860 --> 00:21:19,445 chat, support model, there is some 339 00:21:19,445 --> 00:21:23,284 consideration around, you know, how does this change support? Right? Like right 340 00:21:23,284 --> 00:21:27,090 now, we have to have people manning the phones. We either have those people 341 00:21:27,090 --> 00:21:30,549 or other people managing the triage of inbound email, 342 00:21:31,169 --> 00:21:34,924 and then we add chat to this. And, you know, I think the sort of 343 00:21:34,924 --> 00:21:38,365 the tricky part to this in people's heads is that it is live support in 344 00:21:38,365 --> 00:21:41,280 the same way that that phones is. Right? Like you can't just sort of get 345 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,960 to it an hour or 2 later, not that you should in triaging and inbound. 346 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,805 But, if someone opens up a chat request and have 347 00:21:48,805 --> 00:21:52,645 to sit there for it open for 30 to 45 minutes, I don't think you're 348 00:21:52,645 --> 00:21:55,765 gonna get a lot of love for that as a support feature. So it does 349 00:21:55,765 --> 00:21:59,470 require this sort of immediacy, that in my mind 350 00:21:59,470 --> 00:22:02,830 is really beneficial because these are the types of people that you wanna pull off 351 00:22:02,830 --> 00:22:06,610 of phone calls. Right? Because I've always suggested, like, you can have a triage person 352 00:22:07,035 --> 00:22:10,635 support kinda 2, 3, sometimes even 4 chats at a 353 00:22:10,635 --> 00:22:14,395 time without losing their their marbles. But, you know, you can you can 354 00:22:14,395 --> 00:22:18,140 literally only have one phone call at a time. So it automatically kind 355 00:22:18,140 --> 00:22:21,820 of doubles or potentially even triples the inbound workflow that you can manage 356 00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:25,365 it one one time. But, again, it does require that immediate 357 00:22:25,365 --> 00:22:29,205 sort of staffing and recognition of there are chats coming in. We have 358 00:22:29,205 --> 00:22:32,220 to have someone to be able to to sort of pick this up. So what 359 00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:35,259 do you suggest to people that are like, well, what do I do here? Like, 360 00:22:35,259 --> 00:22:38,639 how would I change my model? Do I have to, like, put additional 361 00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:41,685 staff just for chat? What does that look like in your mind? 362 00:22:42,645 --> 00:22:46,325 Yeah. And I think it it depends on I'm not 363 00:22:46,325 --> 00:22:49,725 going to end with it depends. Don't worry. But, as we well know, there there 364 00:22:49,725 --> 00:22:53,510 are few a consultative. Yeah. Exactly. There are a few models. 365 00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:57,210 Right? You you have more of your pod based, quick fix technician. 366 00:22:58,310 --> 00:23:01,415 You know, if I can fix it in 15 minutes, I do. If not, I 367 00:23:01,415 --> 00:23:04,775 pass it up the chain type approach. Or if you have more of a 368 00:23:04,775 --> 00:23:08,455 centralized dispatcher triage model where they're picking up the phone, 369 00:23:08,455 --> 00:23:12,120 they're triaging it, they're getting into the right queue, In 370 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:15,560 both scenarios, I think it translates really well in that you 371 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,080 dedicate a quick fix technician, to man the chat 372 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,905 desk, so to speak, until you get a a sense of 373 00:23:23,045 --> 00:23:26,505 what that volume will look like, in terms of inbound, 374 00:23:27,205 --> 00:23:30,960 service requests via chat as you scale the the deployment, as you 375 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,800 scale the footprint into your customer base. So that's 376 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,065 a really good way to understand what the capacity 377 00:23:38,285 --> 00:23:41,965 requirements would or could be, into the near 378 00:23:41,965 --> 00:23:45,645 future and then build a model around that understanding 379 00:23:45,645 --> 00:23:48,840 of capacity. So that that's one way. The other, 380 00:23:49,379 --> 00:23:52,679 again, I think, as we think 381 00:23:52,740 --> 00:23:56,355 through the the shift from phones to 382 00:23:56,355 --> 00:23:59,715 chat, that's a very natural progression and one that we 383 00:23:59,715 --> 00:24:03,450 recommend because, yes, phone calls are incredibly expensive, not only 384 00:24:03,450 --> 00:24:06,590 for just the provider but also for, 385 00:24:07,290 --> 00:24:10,910 the company, you know, your customer and the user on the other side. 386 00:24:11,505 --> 00:24:14,945 You're you're both tied up for the duration of the call when you could or 387 00:24:14,945 --> 00:24:18,404 maybe you should be working on on something else that's more production 388 00:24:18,465 --> 00:24:21,820 oriented. And so, generally, we'd recommend 389 00:24:21,820 --> 00:24:25,260 having whomever would be manning the phones that shift or one of the 390 00:24:25,260 --> 00:24:28,955 resources manning the phones that shift, again, repointed to the 391 00:24:28,955 --> 00:24:32,634 inbox and fielding emails and chats out of 392 00:24:32,634 --> 00:24:36,095 there. So something else to consider here is, 393 00:24:36,350 --> 00:24:39,809 you know, AI, is exploding 394 00:24:40,110 --> 00:24:43,549 and, you know, it's showing up in pretty much every corner of the 395 00:24:43,549 --> 00:24:47,095 technology. And and, basically, anything that 396 00:24:47,095 --> 00:24:49,995 touches technology is is being impacted by AI. 397 00:24:50,855 --> 00:24:52,350 Chat seems like a very natural 398 00:24:56,750 --> 00:24:59,870 have to assume this is something you guys are considering. What do you think is 399 00:24:59,870 --> 00:25:03,655 sort of the future of chat with sort of the explosion of AI in the 400 00:25:03,655 --> 00:25:07,495 industry? Yeah. I I think the future, and 401 00:25:07,495 --> 00:25:11,299 it it might be closer than than many think, is that certainly 402 00:25:11,299 --> 00:25:14,980 with first party integrations where, say, you're connected to 403 00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:18,794 the Microsoft, environment and stack, you'll start to see 404 00:25:18,794 --> 00:25:22,095 end to end remediations whereby if you can capture 405 00:25:22,155 --> 00:25:25,995 the intent of the request, like, say, I I need to stand up 406 00:25:25,995 --> 00:25:29,650 a new, a a new group or a new team within my 407 00:25:29,650 --> 00:25:33,270 tenant, and I'd like for it to have this email address, 408 00:25:33,410 --> 00:25:37,184 and I'd like to add these members to that team, like low hanging 409 00:25:37,184 --> 00:25:41,024 but high volume, requests. You'll start 410 00:25:41,024 --> 00:25:44,530 to see the cost structure around that go from, you know, it 411 00:25:44,530 --> 00:25:48,130 doesn't take very long, but I still need a human to intervene and do the 412 00:25:48,130 --> 00:25:51,750 work, to I can handle it on a very 413 00:25:52,885 --> 00:25:56,725 automated AI driven fashion in the not so distant 414 00:25:56,725 --> 00:25:59,785 future. That's that's definitely a concept that we're working on, 415 00:26:00,965 --> 00:26:04,170 and we believe we'll have in place before the end of this year. 416 00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:08,310 And I'm I'm sure we're not unique in in that sense. But in the 417 00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:12,135 in the intervening time, there's, you know, things that that 418 00:26:12,135 --> 00:26:15,975 we and others are doing already, which is understanding the, 419 00:26:16,215 --> 00:26:19,895 typification, the categorization of their quest as it comes in. And then 420 00:26:19,895 --> 00:26:23,560 based on that, understanding the urgency and the priority of 421 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,340 it and handling all of that, information gathering 422 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,174 in an automated fashion so that by the time it gets to a technician, 423 00:26:31,715 --> 00:26:35,394 the baseline information is elevated, and they have a really good 424 00:26:35,394 --> 00:26:38,840 sense of what needs to be done before it it gets to a human. 425 00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:43,220 Yeah. So this is, I think, like, I I had said kinda 2 426 00:26:43,220 --> 00:26:47,034 years ago that, my my AI sort of prediction timeline 427 00:26:47,335 --> 00:26:50,215 that so far is sort of proving to be true. I got a ton of 428 00:26:50,215 --> 00:26:54,010 pushback when I originally released this 2 years ago about sort of, like, 429 00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:57,850 thinking I was I was thinking too slowly, and I would say 2 years 430 00:26:57,850 --> 00:27:01,245 later, I'm kind of right on track. So I'll give you kind of my quick 431 00:27:01,245 --> 00:27:04,765 extrapolation of this. As 2 years ago, I said the first one to 2 years 432 00:27:04,765 --> 00:27:08,445 will be just, like, pure experimentation. There'll be a lot of things that 433 00:27:08,445 --> 00:27:12,159 are labeled AI, and it's just, like, people taking a stab at stuff 434 00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:16,000 and some of it'll look interesting but, you know, ultimately it won't really show 435 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,395 up as a material change for a lot of people, a lot of experimentation. 436 00:27:20,255 --> 00:27:23,455 Then sort of that 3 to 5 year period is where things start to show 437 00:27:23,455 --> 00:27:27,294 up that are actually sort of like our true use cases where it 438 00:27:27,294 --> 00:27:30,820 starts to show up as side carts like tools inside of tools, 439 00:27:31,519 --> 00:27:35,039 where there's actually legitimate uses for it. And I think we're right at that 440 00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:38,875 stage where those things are starting to show up. And then, said 441 00:27:38,875 --> 00:27:42,095 kind of that 5 to 10 year period is where AI will, 442 00:27:43,275 --> 00:27:47,100 dramatically change the technology support landscape and ultimately 443 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,000 decimate help desks. I think, like, over that 5 to 10 year period, it's 444 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,274 messy as to sort of when that happens, But I can 100% 445 00:27:54,575 --> 00:27:58,414 see in the future where, you know, like, you don't need a 446 00:27:58,414 --> 00:28:02,200 full staff of help desk people because most of the things, like, like, if 447 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,799 we extrapolate on what you're talking about of, you know, the there's an intent 448 00:28:05,799 --> 00:28:09,159 understood by the request and it just goes out and automates a bunch of stuff 449 00:28:09,159 --> 00:28:12,895 based on scripts and APIs. That definitely felt like a 450 00:28:12,895 --> 00:28:16,495 pipe dream for the longest time. Like like I'm an old school IT 451 00:28:16,495 --> 00:28:20,260 nerd where like in like 1998 and stuff like that 452 00:28:20,260 --> 00:28:23,240 there was stuff being sold by Compaq 453 00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:27,255 that labeled itself as self healing. Right? And then 454 00:28:27,255 --> 00:28:30,934 IBM got big into this in in the early 2000. And it's never 455 00:28:30,934 --> 00:28:34,455 really been true, but in the future, it will be. 456 00:28:34,455 --> 00:28:38,260 Right? So, I'm I'm curious sort of your thought on on sort of 457 00:28:38,260 --> 00:28:41,940 my mental modeling of that and what the implications of that are 458 00:28:41,940 --> 00:28:45,595 to sort of the MSP ecosystem of, you know, do you need 459 00:28:45,595 --> 00:28:49,035 a support support desk staff of 30 people 460 00:28:49,035 --> 00:28:52,735 or, you know, 10? Will that be sufficient? Because most of 461 00:28:52,810 --> 00:28:56,650 sort of that that, high volume, low complexity work is just 462 00:28:56,650 --> 00:29:00,330 being managed by bots. Is that sort of something that you envision in the 463 00:29:00,330 --> 00:29:03,805 future? Yeah. So I think your your timeline 464 00:29:03,805 --> 00:29:07,025 is is very astute first off, so kudos to you. 465 00:29:07,725 --> 00:29:11,420 You know, I think a lot of times people get excited about, leaps 466 00:29:11,420 --> 00:29:15,260 and advances in technology, and, we saw it ourselves. Right? 467 00:29:15,260 --> 00:29:18,880 We we brought the early v one of our time entry automation 468 00:29:18,940 --> 00:29:22,025 functionality using, OpenAI's, 469 00:29:22,725 --> 00:29:26,265 GPT 3 at time, I believe it was. And, 470 00:29:26,645 --> 00:29:29,685 you know, the light bulb wouldn't really go off. We'd show people and we'd be 471 00:29:29,685 --> 00:29:33,190 like, this is so exciting. Look, we're we're writing the time entries for your 472 00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:36,809 team. And, you know, we would we would get very muted 473 00:29:37,565 --> 00:29:41,165 response back. But then when ChatCPT became 474 00:29:41,165 --> 00:29:44,925 publicly available and there was the big kind of groundswell of 475 00:29:44,925 --> 00:29:48,390 excitement around, around AI and use cases of 476 00:29:48,390 --> 00:29:52,070 AI. Then all of a sudden, we're getting, you know, prospects on demos saying, well, 477 00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:55,370 why doesn't it do this? Why doesn't it do this? Why doesn't it do this? 478 00:29:55,605 --> 00:29:59,225 And so, you know, definitely embrace the creative the creativity 479 00:29:59,445 --> 00:30:02,825 of of MSPs and folks in the channel. It's something that we love 480 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,920 about working with, about, with MSPs is is the 481 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,260 knowledge sharing and the creativity and solutioning. 482 00:30:10,825 --> 00:30:14,125 But, but yeah. So back to the original point. 483 00:30:14,585 --> 00:30:17,725 I think your timeline is just about right on, and I think 484 00:30:18,590 --> 00:30:22,270 we'll start to see, we'll start to see design 485 00:30:22,270 --> 00:30:26,110 patterns where you have multi, what what first, you'll have 486 00:30:26,110 --> 00:30:29,715 agents which are designed to handle a very specific 487 00:30:29,715 --> 00:30:33,554 function or subset of functions, repeatedly. And then 488 00:30:33,554 --> 00:30:37,159 we'll start to see, design patterns where you have multi 489 00:30:37,159 --> 00:30:40,919 agent workflows and experiences. You might have, an 490 00:30:40,919 --> 00:30:44,745 agent that's a specialist in desktops and an agent that's a specialist 491 00:30:44,965 --> 00:30:48,185 in, networks, collaborating together 492 00:30:48,325 --> 00:30:51,145 ultimately to to to, solve a problem, 493 00:30:52,180 --> 00:30:55,940 with no or low human involvement. And I think what 494 00:30:55,940 --> 00:30:59,640 that looks like and means implication wise for for the channel 495 00:30:59,780 --> 00:31:03,235 over the long term is that you'll start to see very 496 00:31:03,235 --> 00:31:06,835 well scaled operations whereby a team of 497 00:31:06,835 --> 00:31:10,610 10, 15, 20, can do the work and have the reach 498 00:31:10,610 --> 00:31:13,830 of what used to be what used to take a 40, 50, 499 00:31:14,289 --> 00:31:17,669 60 person shop, if not more. So it's exciting, 500 00:31:18,034 --> 00:31:21,095 but it does change the the nature of the work, 501 00:31:21,955 --> 00:31:25,794 in in a sense. And so those who can navigate that 502 00:31:25,794 --> 00:31:29,580 evolution and stay ahead of the curve, I think, are are going 503 00:31:29,580 --> 00:31:33,280 to be really well positioned. Yeah. I think, like, 504 00:31:33,340 --> 00:31:37,155 I don't mean to sound sort of like, Chicken Little about this of, like, 505 00:31:37,155 --> 00:31:40,515 everyone's out of a job because, you know, AI is coming for your help desk 506 00:31:40,515 --> 00:31:44,160 roles. I think there will be some of that. 507 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,860 I think a lot of it just forces an evolutionary change of the industry. 508 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,904 And the the way that I sort of like like explain this backwards is 509 00:31:51,904 --> 00:31:55,345 similarly like when we were building, these, MS 510 00:31:55,345 --> 00:31:58,700 communicator and link practices, This was when 511 00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:02,480 BPOS, the, like, business productivity office suite, the predecessor 512 00:32:02,540 --> 00:32:06,380 of of Office 365 and now, M365 was 513 00:32:06,380 --> 00:32:10,125 rolling out. And I would have chat with chats with industry executives 514 00:32:10,125 --> 00:32:13,885 that are like, you don't understand. Microsoft is stealing all of my money. 515 00:32:13,885 --> 00:32:17,620 Do you realize how much money I make on exchange upgrades and maintenance and 516 00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:21,760 hosting? It's like, well, okay. You can go throw yourself on those gears and and 517 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,565 try to maintain a hosting business with Exchange and doing project upgrades. 518 00:32:30,044 --> 00:32:33,779 Similarly, you know, why does anyone wanna fight to maintain the 519 00:32:33,779 --> 00:32:37,460 help desk if they don't need to? We're talking about really long time cycles here. 520 00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:40,434 I'm not saying these people are gonna be out of job in 2 years. Like, 521 00:32:40,434 --> 00:32:44,274 this is an this is again an evolutionary change to the industry where, like, 522 00:32:44,274 --> 00:32:47,315 there'll be lots of other jobs opened up. And I a lot of ways, I 523 00:32:47,315 --> 00:32:50,790 see this as sort of a return to the mean or a circle about what 524 00:32:50,790 --> 00:32:54,630 we're doing is a lot of what we do goes back to consulting. Right? Like 525 00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:58,275 your human skill set and your consultative skill set will be 526 00:32:58,355 --> 00:33:02,115 far more valuable than than your general technical skill set 527 00:33:02,115 --> 00:33:05,895 because that stuff just won't be as sort of necessary or unique 528 00:33:06,115 --> 00:33:09,700 as it is right now. Because a lot of it will be filled by agents. 529 00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:12,760 But, you know, who can go out and have consultative 530 00:33:13,060 --> 00:33:16,740 conversations about all these wild technology changes that are happening 531 00:33:16,740 --> 00:33:20,215 with humans that don't know anything and don't care to know anything about 532 00:33:20,215 --> 00:33:23,675 technology. That's where the business will sort of evolve to. Right? 533 00:33:24,450 --> 00:33:28,070 Yeah. And and I think it ultimately just it changes 534 00:33:28,690 --> 00:33:32,370 the nature of the value that you're delivering to to your customers and to your 535 00:33:32,370 --> 00:33:36,215 partners. I think you're spot on. It's it's how then do I, 536 00:33:36,835 --> 00:33:39,894 take the knowledge that I've gained in orienting 537 00:33:40,274 --> 00:33:44,054 that, technology to give give leverage within my, 538 00:33:44,540 --> 00:33:47,840 my MSP, my consultancy? How do I then, 539 00:33:48,220 --> 00:33:51,820 orient that towards my customers and help them gain leverage 540 00:33:51,820 --> 00:33:55,215 within their operation? And I think that totally changes 541 00:33:55,275 --> 00:33:58,975 the the calculus, so to speak, and and the value proposition 542 00:33:59,195 --> 00:34:02,815 that we're we're we're able to offer to, to businesses everywhere. 543 00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:07,419 Yep. So I mean, it's a cool space. Right? Like, I always joke, like, you 544 00:34:07,419 --> 00:34:10,940 know, if if you like things to stay the same, technology industry is probably not 545 00:34:10,940 --> 00:34:14,645 for you. But if you like an industry that's so dynamic, everything has a 6 546 00:34:14,645 --> 00:34:17,764 month shelf life, this is a great spot for you. Right? And that's that's the 547 00:34:17,764 --> 00:34:21,150 nature of being in an IT service industry is is the 548 00:34:21,150 --> 00:34:24,989 only, the only the stability you have is that things 549 00:34:24,989 --> 00:34:28,734 will change. Right? Like, it's it's, it's fun. Like, all 550 00:34:28,734 --> 00:34:32,574 of these things that will shift the industry and have to adapt. If it 551 00:34:32,574 --> 00:34:36,110 were easy, it'd be boring, and everyone would be doing it. So this is where 552 00:34:36,110 --> 00:34:39,550 the margin gets made, basically. Right? Yeah. It's great for my 553 00:34:39,550 --> 00:34:43,070 ADHD. Yeah. That's right. Along with everybody else in this 554 00:34:43,070 --> 00:34:46,835 industry, for sure. It's like, like, maybe that's part of the reason that there there's 555 00:34:46,835 --> 00:34:50,675 a bit of a, a bit of a bias as those people showing up in 556 00:34:50,675 --> 00:34:53,975 this industry is it's just tuned exactly for you. Right? 557 00:34:54,340 --> 00:34:57,940 Exactly. Yeah. Getting, yep, getting engaged in 558 00:34:57,940 --> 00:35:01,620 change. Oh, it's a good thing. That's right. Cool. So, we'll throw in 559 00:35:01,620 --> 00:35:05,195 some links and everything to to yourself, Matt, and to Thread. 560 00:35:05,575 --> 00:35:08,775 Any sort of parting words of wisdom, that or, 561 00:35:08,935 --> 00:35:12,075 requests to the audience that you would suggest they check out? 562 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,100 Yeah. I mean, I would just say get stay engaged with the technology. 563 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,565 We we've learned so much by standing up proofs of 564 00:35:21,565 --> 00:35:25,405 concept and and speaking with our partners and and in some cases, 565 00:35:25,405 --> 00:35:29,099 their customers to understand how are you thinking about it. It 566 00:35:29,099 --> 00:35:32,940 is this design pattern feasible and realistic for how 567 00:35:32,940 --> 00:35:36,619 you foresee the use of this technology within your business in the future. 568 00:35:36,619 --> 00:35:40,325 And I think the more you have those conversations and, you 569 00:35:40,325 --> 00:35:44,085 know, you you you find the areas in which you want to invest 570 00:35:44,085 --> 00:35:46,905 and believe that, the the better, 571 00:35:47,630 --> 00:35:51,470 outcomes that that you'll have, going forward. So that would 572 00:35:51,470 --> 00:35:55,170 just be the recommendation is is stay engaged, stay in touch, keep tinkering, 573 00:35:55,615 --> 00:35:59,454 and you'll end up, with a good answer. Awesome. Appreciate 574 00:35:59,454 --> 00:36:02,355 your time, Matt. Likewise. Thanks, Todd.