Welcome to the Connected Mom podcast, where we desire to deepen your connection with God, help you empathically connect with other moms and more intentionally connect with your child. I'm Becky Harling, your host, and I have with me today co host Sarah Wildman.
We're excited to be here. Becky, you are an author of several books, but one that we'll be looking at today especially is how to Listen So Your kids will Talk. Now, I have to tell you, I heard you introduce a few weeks ago, and I think they made a classic mistake with this title, but it's an interesting one. She introduced you and she said Becky wrote this book how to Talk So Your Kids Will Listen. Right? But that's the title of this book, right? How to listen. Okay, talk to me a little bit about that, because you didn't leave with how to talk. You said how to listen. So what led you to write this book?
Well, first of all, Sarah moms as moms, which you and I are both moms, right? So your mom's of littles, uh, my kids are all grown now, and I'm actually a grandmother. But here's the thing that moms have in common. We all love to talk, right? We give our kids a million commands every day when they're little. Make your bed, brush your teeth, don't hit your sister, pick up your blocks, all the things we say. And along the way, it dawned on me that God wanted me to listen. And this was a challenge for me. And he taught me this very specifically through one of my children.
Tell me more about that.
Yeah, well, every family, I think, needs a negotiator.
Such a great term, negotiator.
Yes. And God gave us, um, a negotiator. So Steve and I, we didn't know what we were doing as parents. In fact, we've often joked that if we were going to write a book about parenting, it would be blackmail, bribery, and a whole lot of prayer, because that's a lot of what we did. But, uh, we had this little child, Stephanie. She was gorgeous and tiny. And I'll never forget when the pediatrician, when she was only three, said, Becky, she's tiny, but she's mighty. And I know some of you moms out there can relate to that, right, because you have this tiny child and you think, how on earth can you have so many opinions when you're so small? But Steph had a lot of opinions. And one day, one morning, I was on my knees before the Lord, and it was one of those mornings where I just felt like a complete failure as a mom. Every mom out there has had those mornings. So I want to give you comfort in this moment. We've all had our fair share of mom fail. Anyway, on, um, this morning, as I was on my knees sobbing, vote for the Lord, I said, Lord, I'm going to mess her up irrevocably. She's going to need a lifetime of therapy. And the Lord spoke to me very clearly, and he said, Becky, give her a voice. And I was not expecting that. I remember thinking, she already has a voice, I'm pretty sure. And he's like, no, your job as a mom is to shape her voice, not silence her voice. And so, based on that, I went on this journey for really how to reshape my parenting through listening.
Wow. I love that. And you kind of hinted at the fact that, um, you weren't the perfect parent. And I think a lot of us think somebody writes a book and you're like, they figured it all out.
No, they sure haven't. Don't let anybody tell you that because it's not true. Okay.
I think we can all be comforted to know that we're all on this journey together. So what does that look like, giving her a voice? Right. Because I think as parents, you kind of default, like we were talking about earlier, to just talking repeatedly here's. This how did that practically look in your family with Stephanie as she was given a voice by you and your husband?
Yeah. So practically, sometimes when she was really little, we would set the kitchen timer, and we would say, okay, Steph, go ahead and give us all your arguments at the end. It's up to us. Okay. At different times as she got older, we had her right proposals. That was one of my favorite things to do. And when you have them write a proposal, you have quite a bit of power as a parent. You can say, okay, it's got to have good paragraph structure. It's got to have capitals and periods. So they're really working on their writing skills as they're arguing with you through this proposal. And then we allowed her to call family meetings sometimes to just present her case.
That's really cool. Did you find that that was a good strategy for your other children or was listening to them a different beast?
It looks different with every child, Sarah. You know that you have two boys, and they're probably very different. Um, I have 14 grandchildren now.
Amazing.
All a little bit different. I know, it's crazy. It's so much fun. Um, but in our four children, while they were all pretty verbal, I do have to say that we didn't really have shy and quiet children. But it did look different with each of them. Some were more compliant. Some were a little more the negotiator personality. Some were a little bit sneaky at times. Some were more I wanted to be the center of attention, really. I think a lot of them were center of attention people. Um, so as a parent, you need wisdom. And I always like to say, like, you can read books on parenting. I mean, I wrote one of them. However, ultimately, God knows your child best. Whether your child is three months or 30. Whether your child is six or 60, god knows your child best because he wired them and designed them. And so, first and foremost, we need to go to God for wisdom on how to give these people in our life a voice, because connection is everything.
There's a scripture that you really spent some time on in the book on wisdom, um, from, uh, Proverbs. Do you want to share a little bit about what you learned from that?
Yeah. So Steve and I steve is my husband, by the way, but we needed a foundational verse for our family life, and so we chose Proverbs 24, verses three and four, where it says, by wisdom, a house is built. Through understanding, it is established through knowledge. Its rooms are filled with rare and beautiful treasures. And what I love about this passage is it gives us three couplets that really show us how to listen as parents within the family system. And these couples are true again, whether your child is a toddler, a teen, or an adult ready to leave home, and even after they've left home, these three couplets are something I always go back to. So the first one is, by wisdom, a house is built. We could really paraphrase that. By wisdom, a relationship is built because a relationship is precious and it's a treasure. And so it takes a lot of wisdom to build a good relationship with another person. And then the writer of Proverbs goes on and says, by understanding, it is established. And I love that one particularly because in our home, all our kids played soccer. So, I mean, there were balls flying.
Through the house all did you have a soccer mom M sticker on your minivan?
I should have gotten one. Sarah not too late.
Sure. Maybe. Soccer mom?
Yeah. I do have a sweatshirt that the team of three of my grandsons are on, the awesome Shark soccer team. And so they gave me a sweatshirt because I was the most dedicated fan. So it says awesome Sharks, and it has a soccer ball.
Well, I interrupted on soccer, but you're talking about understanding, though. Understanding.
So by understanding, it's established. And really what that word understanding means is to re establish something that's been toppled over. And our kids are toppled over by the world. Our young adults are toppled over by the world. Maybe they get yelled at by a teacher and it hurts their feelings, or a friend betrays them and their feelings are toppled over. Or they don't make the soccer team they were hoping for, or they don't get chosen for the lead role in the school play. Or as adults, they don't get the job promotion they were hoping for, and maybe they even get fired. Our people, our kids, need to be reestablished. And the way that's done is by offering empathy. A lot of times as moms, Sarah, we want to give advice, and we feel like I have the magic advice that's going to solve your problem. And here's the thing. If you can solve my problem in 1 minute, that makes me an idiot. And nobody wants to feel like an idiot, right? Right. So life is complicated. And what the message we want to send in listening is your feelings make sense to me, and I'm with you, uh, in this in this toppling over. And when your child knows that you're making the effort to understand their feelings and that they are loved unconditionally by you, that goes really far. And then, of course, the third couple, it is just by knowledge. Its rooms are filled with rare and beautiful treasures. We have to continually be students of our kids. What makes them tick? What kind of people do they like to hang out with? Who do they like to play with? What's their natural wiring? Are they more extroverted? Are they more introverted? Are they more passionate or more placid? I mean, you've got to know your child, and that takes becoming a student of them.
Those are some good tips. I'm writing them down as we go to remind me. Well, I was thinking, too, when, um, you're talking about the reestablished, it's a tall order, but we're really reflecting what God is to us, right? Like you were saying, I'm with you in this. I'm listening, I care. And so the parent is a model, really, of our connection with the Lord and what that looks like, which is a tall order.
Very true, it is. And yet research has shown us that the first picture your child has of who God is comes through his parents. And so we want to look as much like Jesus as we can. Now, don't freak out if you're listening to this podcast, right? Because we all have moments where we've completely bloated. However, those moments give us fabulous opportunities to apologize and say, will you forgive me?
Ah, yes. Well, apology wise, um, I heard you share about a time, I think your kids were adults, where you ask them a really brave question, really brave. Um, on if you were a good listener. Is that right? Can you tell us a little bit? Yeah, that's crazy humble. Becky, was that you and Steve or where did that come from?
That was a conversation I had with one of our daughters, not the negotiator, but a different one who also had negotiation ability. And, um, she was a young adult. And honestly, by that point in the journey, I kind of felt like I had really improved in my listening. And so I asked her, like, how do you think I am as a listener? And, uh, if you're going to ask your kids that, you really have to be prepared for the answer. But it opens a great conversation, because what you're really asking is, how do you experience me as a listener? And I stood back, Sarah, thinking I was going to get rave reviews. And then there was this long pause, and she's like, well, sometimes you listen well, but sometimes you're distracted. You interrupt me a lot. And, mom, you still give me a lot of advice. And I don't really want advice. I just want to feel heard and valued. And that night, I went to bed one more time and had a conversation with the Lord, kind of like, okay, I initially thought, Well, Lord, maybe this is your fault because you made me an extraverse. God is really patient with us. But I had to say, Lord, look, I want my kids who are now adults to feel loved and heard and valued, even if they hold different opinions than me. So show me what it looks like to love them well through listening. And I had to change. I had to put guards in place so that I wouldn't interrupt. I had to remind myself on the phone when I was tempted to give advice, to kind of put my hand over my mouth so that I wouldn't give advice, so that I would just listen and seek to understand them.
Um, do you think that that question could start earlier even?
Yeah.
Then I just think I have a six and an eight year old, and especially my eight year old, he's very verbal. He'll say, mom, are you listening? Even with your grandkids? I bet you've seen where you can kind of show that you are a listener and that connection that comes with it.
I'd like to offer a dare to our moms who are out there listening. So I dare you to ask the people closest to you how you are as a listener. Start with your kids. If you have teens, definitely ask them. They'll be honest. So be prepared. Even if you have grade school kids or if you have toddlers and you're tucking them m in bed at night, do you feel like Mommy's listening? Well, to you and some kids are a little bit manipulative. I was talking with parents the other day, and they're like, yeah, my kid never talks as much as when I tucked them in bed at night. And then all of a sudden they want to tell me everything because they don't want to go to sleep. But that's part of the treasure of raising them, and someday you're going to miss those years. So try to hang in there and enjoy whatever they tell you at that time of day. But ask your husband, how do you experience me as a listener? Ask your good girlfriends, how do you experience me as a listener? Because I believe that listening is a spiritual discipline that we need to continue working on our whole journey with Jesus, because Jesus himself was an amazing listener.
He sure was. I think about the times when Jesus would go off by himself. There are times in the gospel that talks about that and you have to think he was probably listening to the Lord, too. I mean, he had listened to everyone and all of their needs. Right. Um, but he modeled that, too, of having those times of just stillness, which can be hard, you know, especially when you have the little and taking that time. But, um, what was a way, maybe when you think of your kids, maybe like, before preteen years, what was a way that you were able to really sit and listen with them? Do you have an example?
Yeah, once they were in school, after school, snack time is essential. I mean, snacks are just really important to kids because they me, too. Yeah. Well, to my husband, too. I love to tell the story that I'm going to digress for just a second, sarah but I remember being on vacation with my husband, Steve, and Costa Rica, and we were in a grocery store picking up some groceries, and there was an earthquake where the whole ground started to shake, and we realized there was an earthquake. And we looked at each other and said, Earthquake? We started to head out of the grocery store, and Steve's famous line now this was a six nine earthquake. Steve's famous line was back, wait. And I stopped and I looked at him and he said, we didn't get snacks. And I'm like, so snacks were very important to Steve. However, I said to him, I think we're supposed to get out of the building, and then we can think about snacks just in case the whole building crashes. Anyway, it's the same with your kids. If you want your kids to talk, snack time is huge. Give them a snack. Turn off your phone during snack time, or at least put it in the other room on silent. And just focus on your kids and ask them questions. Questions like, when were you kind today? When was somebody really funny? Today in school? When were you, like, a hero today? And then I'm a huge fan of mealtime. Sarah family dinners together. And look, I know, especially once your kids get into sports, it's a challenge. It was in our home, too, but we tried to make meal time family dinners happen, uh, a bunch of nights a week with times where there was an exceptional swim meet during dinner time or soccer meet or whatever. But family dinners should be fun. Don't make them full of correction, like, oh, would you just eat your peas? Or would you just put your napkin in your lap? Make it fun. I heard of a family a few months ago who all dressed up for dinner in their dress up clothes to practice family dinner manners, and they made it a game. Or last night, actually, I was eating with one of our kids and their families, and they have a six year old, a four year old, and a two year old. And so during dinner, we played guessing ten, which is a game that I highly recommend for parents of elementary school children. And so somebody chooses a card and it has an animal on the card and you have to ask questions to figure out who the animal is, what it is, and it's so fun. And for early readers, they can begin to read some of the questions on that card. But the key is to make family dinners fun because you can learn a lot about your child during those times because it's not pressured and it's supposed to be fun.
M. Yes. And in your book you give a lot of these tips. I know you have like a huge list of awesome questions to ask for.
Oh, I got to add something. I got to add something, Sarah. So I know of one family that asks, what's your happy? What was your happy today? And what was your crappy today? And uh, kids just think it's so funny because it's a different word than parents usually use, right? And yet they open up about it and so they go around the dinner table, what was your happy today? What was your crappy? And then, do you have a question for somebody else in the family? And so they've been doing that and then they just added, and what are you thankful for today? But asking these questions, you're going to get a better feel for how your kids day went.
That's so true. I was volunteering. I'm like the fun PTA mom. I volunteer for these things when the kids get prizes for acting. Well, I'm like, I want to be the fun person for once. But one thing I was observing and remembering about being in school myself is at school there's a system. You are constantly being told, okay, getting this line, okay, do this test, practice this thing. And I often try to remind myself that a child has been corrected, if you will, all day. Right. And so I think what you're sharing is so important because if home is just full of more corrections based on I don't think that's the goal that we've had in mind. And you've talked about that goal of parenting. It's not correcting, right? It's uh, the connection, which is the whole point of this podcast.
Right, yeah. I think especially for those of us that are parents of faith, those of us that follow Jesus and our parenting, somewhere along the way we got the impression perhaps that obedience was the end all. That's not the end all. The deeper your connection with your child, the better chance you have of your child actually growing up to follow Jesus and embracing faith. Because if you're over emphasizing correcting all the time, they're going to grow a little bit maybe hearted towards you and they're going to want to back up. I mean, think about it, Sarah. We don't like to be corrected all the time or scolded all the time. Uh, in fact, I was thinking, I can't remember one time in my life where I've been scolded, that it resulted in changed behavior. I, um, changed because I fell more in love with people, or I saw Jesus modeled in them. And that was something that I had to really think about as a parent, because we were all taught, train up a child in the way we'll go. The thing is, that's not even what that means. It means train the child in the way he should go. He should go know your child and train them towards that direction. But it's not, uh jesus was very gentle with children. We have all these pictures of Jesus with kids on his lap, and in every painting, the kids are sitting still. Have you ever noticed that? I don't think that's the way it was. I think they were wiggling and swimming. Somebody was probably pulling on his hair or his beard or whatever. But Jesus loves children, and I think as parents, we need to emphasize connection more than correction.
M, so good reminder. Um, now we talked about more little kids, maybe elementary age. But then there is this story that I think is just such a great example, um, when you're raising teenagers and, uh, there was a big meltdown. I'll leave with that. And I think this story really this is probably one of my favorite takeaways from reading the book and just, um, hearing you tell it. So you'll tell our listeners. I think it's really special.
It was one of our daughters. She was about 16 at the time. And I went into her room to talk to her. She asked if she could talk to me. I went in there and there was, like, this big meltdown, lots of big emotions. Sometimes we talk about little kids having big emotions, but our teens have big emotions too.
All those hormones.
Yeah. And in the conversation, I got defensive because I thought she was really attacking me. I felt attacked by the conversation, and so I kept trying to defend myself. And the more she tried to explain, the more I tried to defend myself and, um, this and that and the other. And it was just going south really fast. And finally my husband, Steve knocked on the door and came in and said, hey, Beck, can I take over? And I was like, happily. So I left the room, and Steve just pulled her, our 16 year old, onto his lap and said, Tell me more. And, you know, she just dumped and poured out on him. And it turns out that the meltdown actually had nothing to do with me. She was maybe frustrated with the way I was answering her. However, the meltdown had to do with the pressure she was facing in AP history and AP English. She was frustrated with her friends. She could sense some things going on in the church we were serving that she wasn't happy about. I think as parents, when there's a colossal meltdown, when there's big emotions, kids can't respond to, you correcting them or defending yourself. Their brain can't even handle that. And so the best way you can minister to them in that moment is say, tell me more, tell me more. Just let them dump. And actually, that holds true even with adults. So if you've got adult kids and they're pouring out their heart to you, the best thing you can do on the phone with them is just say, tell me more. Stay curious.
Like we said, kind of goes against our nature, because I think the best intent as moms is that we want to fix it. Right?
Yeah.
I mean, you want to go in there, and that's usually why the advice is there. You don't want to see your child in this terrible pain of emotion. Right. But, um, I think maybe you're reminding me that maybe it's that release of emotions right. And feeling heard and connected that actually helps them. Um, that maybe is the fix, if you will. Right.
Yeah.
It's feeling that connection, and, uh, that kind of runs counter to what we think. Okay. In my parenting book, let's see what I say to this one. Yeah. Actually not saying anything, which is also just a lot of grace on us as parents, right. To maybe not always have the answers to everything. Right.
I'm reminded of the psalmists, Sarah, because in the Psalms, the psalmists really dump their feelings authentically a lot. And it's dumping that there's release. Right. And then the Holy Spirit meets us in that place and shows us what to do next. And so, as parents, as moms out there, I want to encourage you, put some effort into your listening skills. Go back to God. Spend time on your knees or in bed at night. Pray or early in the morning before your kids are up. Pray. Spend time with God, because he's the one that ultimately has wisdom for your kids. So ask him. And when you don't know what to do, don't panic. Most of us have had moments, everybody has had moments where we've had not a clue. But we go back to God and we say, Lord, we need wisdom with this child. And then set your focus on understanding to reestablish them, and then become a student of your child so that you know them well, know their friends, know their likes, their dislikes, what they're good at, what they're not so good at, and parent from that posture, and it's going to go a whole lot better.
That's so good. It's a good summary. Becky. We're about out of time, but I was trying to think if there are any other things we wanted to make sure we included in this episode. Um, maybe some of us have tried and failed strategies. What's some encouragement you might share, uh, with us as we head into this day? Or head into tomorrow, and we're listening to this and trying to reestablish ourselves. What's some advice you would tell yourself?
You know, failing. We're all going to have mom fails, right? We need to start including that. Maybe in the podcast our best mom fails. I mean, times where you forget that a project is due at school or times where you just completely blow it with one of your kids. The great thing about that is it's an opportunity to apologize. And home should be a place filled with grace. The world is not always filled with grace, but home should be a place filled with grace. So as you're apologizing to your child, you give them an opportunity to exercise their grace muscles. And I kind of love that. All along the way, Steve and I had times where we would say, I'm so sorry. Will you forgive me? Because I blew it today. And they will forgive, because sometimes I think they're better at forgiving than we are. Go back to the Lord. Spend time in prayer today. The deeper your connection with God, the deeper you're going to be able to offer connection to your kids.
So true. And again, I do want to promote this book because I think, uh, there's so many pieces of it that are helpful and honestly, any life stage of parenting, but how to listen, Becky, not how to talk, right? So your kids will talk, right? That's the goal, is that they are talking, not us. And I just love that slight change of word, because I think it's really a powerful way to add, uh, your subtitles to deepen your connection and strengthen their confidence. I think that's what we all want with our kids. So thank you for taking the time today to do this.
Yeah. Thanks for co hosting with me, Sarah. You're incredible. And, hey, friends, join us next time for the Connected Mom podcast, where we're having real conversations about how to stay connected with God, your fellow moms, and your child. Thank you for joining us today. Bye.