WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.170 --> 00:00:05.370 Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where Chemical means business. 00:00:05.910 --> 00:00:09.720 I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:13.590 from leaders driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry. 00:00:14.520 --> 00:00:18.840 Each week we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the 00:00:18.840 --> 00:00:20.610 strategies that make an impact. 00:00:20.910 --> 00:00:21.720 Let's get started. 00:00:23.224 --> 00:00:26.884 Victoria: welcome back to The Chemical Show Where Leaders Talk Business. 00:00:26.914 --> 00:00:31.864 Today I am speaking with Milan Taylor, who is a partner at Mercer, one of the 00:00:31.864 --> 00:00:35.674 premier consulting firms focused on people and talent, and that's a bit of 00:00:35.674 --> 00:00:36.964 what we're gonna be talking about today. 00:00:37.324 --> 00:00:41.164 Milan is also one of our key speakers at the Chemical Summit this year, 00:00:41.164 --> 00:00:45.424 which is on September 30th and October 1st in Houston, Texas. 00:00:45.843 --> 00:00:47.403 Visit the chemical summit.com 00:00:47.403 --> 00:00:51.753 to learn more and to register because you do not wanna miss the opportunity 00:00:51.753 --> 00:00:53.763 to attend the Chemical Summit. 00:00:53.823 --> 00:00:57.513 Meet Milan and other great speakers and guests of the Chemical show and 00:00:57.513 --> 00:01:02.651 just change your view in terms of how you're growing, leading, and 00:01:02.651 --> 00:01:04.601 thriving inside the chemical industry. 00:01:04.661 --> 00:01:07.271 So Milan, thanks for joining me today. 00:01:07.626 --> 00:01:08.851 Milan: Oh, thanks for inviting me. 00:01:08.881 --> 00:01:11.731 Uh, looking forward to the conversation and looking forward to the, uh, 00:01:12.211 --> 00:01:13.561 the conference in September. 00:01:13.756 --> 00:01:14.416 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:01:14.686 --> 00:01:16.486 So what's your origin story? 00:01:16.486 --> 00:01:20.026 I always love to ask people, how did you get where you are and 00:01:20.026 --> 00:01:22.006 how did you get interested in this space of people and talent? 00:01:23.189 --> 00:01:26.634 Milan: Uh, I think like so many other people, you, you fall into it. 00:01:26.634 --> 00:01:31.404 I don't think you, you, you, you six years old say, I wanna be in people in talent. 00:01:31.404 --> 00:01:36.434 So, uh, I was, running a division for a large, multinational organization. 00:01:37.344 --> 00:01:42.474 And, uh, I saw it firsthand just how effective having strong people strategies 00:01:42.684 --> 00:01:44.274 led to better business results. 00:01:44.304 --> 00:01:48.294 And so that's the, my introduction into, to people and talent 00:01:48.294 --> 00:01:49.824 and, uh, very effective. 00:01:49.824 --> 00:01:54.024 So aligning business strategies with people strategies can drive significantly 00:01:54.024 --> 00:01:55.314 better outcomes for organizations. 00:01:55.859 --> 00:01:56.339 Victoria: Love it. 00:01:56.579 --> 00:01:56.969 Love it, love it. 00:01:57.029 --> 00:01:59.799 And tell us a little bit about Mercer, because people may not 00:01:59.799 --> 00:02:01.119 be fully familiar with Mercer. 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:06.379 Milan: Yeah, Mercer is, uh, part of Marsh McLennan, uh, New York stock, 00:02:06.449 --> 00:02:10.989 exchange listed organization, and at an enterprise level, marsh McLennan. 00:02:11.859 --> 00:02:14.539 Manages, some of the most compelling risks. 00:02:14.539 --> 00:02:19.389 So we have four organizations within in the family, marsh, uh, which is, 00:02:19.489 --> 00:02:21.229 in essence looking after asset risk. 00:02:21.619 --> 00:02:25.819 Mercer, which is the organization that I work for, looks after people risk, 00:02:26.099 --> 00:02:30.379 Oliver Wyman, look after business and strategy risk, as a management 00:02:30.379 --> 00:02:34.069 consultancy group, and then Guy Carpenter look after reinsurance risks. 00:02:34.069 --> 00:02:36.799 So together it's about how do organizations manage. 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:39.689 In a holistic manner, their risk profiles. 00:02:41.044 --> 00:02:43.414 Victoria: So I would not necessarily have thought of Mercer as helping 00:02:43.414 --> 00:02:48.604 to manage risk, but of course people are a big, a company's biggest 00:02:48.934 --> 00:02:52.044 assets, opportunities, and exposure. 00:02:52.429 --> 00:02:53.329 Milan: Absolutely. 00:02:53.329 --> 00:02:57.209 It's, it is so critical to organizations success. 00:02:57.269 --> 00:03:00.329 And it's, uh, often under, under underlooked or undervalued. 00:03:00.844 --> 00:03:04.341 Victoria: Yeah, so obviously you're talking to companies across the industry. 00:03:04.401 --> 00:03:10.131 What are companies and leaders talking about and asking Mercer about today? 00:03:10.131 --> 00:03:11.271 Where's the focus? 00:03:12.038 --> 00:03:12.338 Milan: Yeah. 00:03:12.338 --> 00:03:15.908 And, and this is with a, a lens on the chemical, uh, industry as well. 00:03:15.908 --> 00:03:18.608 I, I do a lot of work in that, uh, in that sector. 00:03:19.068 --> 00:03:21.018 Look, there's a, a consistent theme. 00:03:21.078 --> 00:03:23.418 It's, it's cost, cost, cost. 00:03:23.708 --> 00:03:24.248 Growth. 00:03:24.248 --> 00:03:24.608 Growth. 00:03:24.608 --> 00:03:25.148 Growth. 00:03:25.178 --> 00:03:27.818 And then simplify, simplify, simplifies. 00:03:27.968 --> 00:03:32.278 So I guess enterprise wide across the chemical industry. 00:03:32.398 --> 00:03:34.918 From a challenge point of view, it's all about optimization. 00:03:35.358 --> 00:03:40.218 And I think given that we weren't surprised to see that from Mercer's Global 00:03:40.218 --> 00:03:43.803 Talent Trends 2025 chemical industry cut. 00:03:44.178 --> 00:03:50.454 The number one HR priority was getting line managers to drive performance. 00:03:51.079 --> 00:03:53.509 Set up their people manage this to deliver. 00:03:53.749 --> 00:03:57.589 And so you can start to see that how do we drive costs? 00:03:57.619 --> 00:04:01.639 How do we drive growth, and how do we ensure that we get the productivity gain? 00:04:02.119 --> 00:04:07.126 So, uh, across all industries, bar one that we, researched, getting people, 00:04:07.126 --> 00:04:11.179 managers to do what they need to do around driving towards, went to number one. 00:04:11.179 --> 00:04:15.469 So it's kind of tied in with the current economic, uh, geopolitical 00:04:15.739 --> 00:04:16.594 volatility that we're seeing. 00:04:17.299 --> 00:04:20.719 Victoria: Is that an implication, that there's a view that managers 00:04:21.229 --> 00:04:23.299 haven't been managing effectively? 00:04:23.299 --> 00:04:28.909 Or is this a function of where we are in the 2020s with work from home and not work 00:04:28.909 --> 00:04:30.889 from home and the whole workplace dynamic? 00:04:30.889 --> 00:04:31.099 What? 00:04:31.489 --> 00:04:32.539 What's driving that? 00:04:32.539 --> 00:04:32.569 I. 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:36.649 Milan: I look, I think it's being driven by the need for organizations 00:04:36.654 --> 00:04:38.314 in in, in tough times or, or. 00:04:38.998 --> 00:04:43.018 The industry having a lot of headwinds, really needing to drive 00:04:43.318 --> 00:04:45.178 with a laser-like focus performance. 00:04:45.208 --> 00:04:48.418 And, and you can only deliver that business performance if 00:04:48.418 --> 00:04:51.598 you've got strong alignment all the way down to the organization. 00:04:51.598 --> 00:04:55.638 So we've been doing a lot of work with firms in the industry, ensuring 00:04:55.638 --> 00:05:00.558 that the KPIs are actually meaningful, measurable, and deliverable and 00:05:00.588 --> 00:05:03.948 strongly aligned to the organization's. 00:05:04.138 --> 00:05:07.558 Business plan strategy and, and in essence, what they're saying to the 00:05:07.558 --> 00:05:09.628 market of their stock exchange listed. 00:05:09.628 --> 00:05:13.526 So if you don't have that alignment, it can have some pretty, you 00:05:13.526 --> 00:05:15.469 know, challenging consequences. 00:05:16.149 --> 00:05:17.079 Victoria: That's really interesting. 00:05:17.109 --> 00:05:21.219 And so I guess this ties into this whole theme of how work gets done. 00:05:21.219 --> 00:05:24.699 And I know one of the things I, as I was doing some research before our call, 00:05:25.149 --> 00:05:31.239 that Mercer has been talking about and working on is work redesign, right? 00:05:31.239 --> 00:05:33.489 And work, I guess workforce redesign. 00:05:33.489 --> 00:05:35.079 So how does that play into this? 00:05:35.674 --> 00:05:39.154 Milan: So I think if we, if we pivot and talk about agility for a moment. 00:05:39.154 --> 00:05:42.604 So, so everybody wants, I shouldn't say everybody, business leaders want 00:05:42.604 --> 00:05:46.814 their organizations to be far more agile so they can pivot, far more quickly, 00:05:46.874 --> 00:05:50.894 uh, to external challenges, that the industry or, or the economy faces. 00:05:50.894 --> 00:05:52.154 So, agility. 00:05:52.219 --> 00:05:56.759 Productivity and efficiency are really key, focus areas for, for C-Suite. 00:05:57.359 --> 00:06:00.989 And, and I think the thing about agility through, um, through the lens 00:06:00.989 --> 00:06:03.719 of people is it's not just about speed. 00:06:04.259 --> 00:06:08.789 We'd like people to think about agility being about speed and precision. 00:06:09.234 --> 00:06:13.104 So, skills gives you that map of where your capability is so you 00:06:13.104 --> 00:06:14.694 can redeploy your talent quickly. 00:06:15.144 --> 00:06:18.894 Think of it a little bit like a Formula One team doing a pit stop time change. 00:06:18.894 --> 00:06:22.554 You need to do it with precision, with speed and with intent. 00:06:23.034 --> 00:06:26.484 And so work we design from, from our perspective in the work we do 00:06:26.484 --> 00:06:30.744 with clients in the industry is about improving workforce agility. 00:06:30.834 --> 00:06:31.959 And that's really key at the moment. 00:06:32.844 --> 00:06:35.784 So it's the continuation of the optimization story. 00:06:35.961 --> 00:06:39.861 and there are quite a lot of sort of areas to reflect on when 00:06:39.861 --> 00:06:41.361 you think about work redesign. 00:06:41.361 --> 00:06:44.891 And probably, the first one is where, where does work actually get done? 00:06:44.891 --> 00:06:45.191 Right? 00:06:45.521 --> 00:06:51.524 And, and so we are seeing a trend in, in more organizations offshoring. 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:53.309 To Global Capability Centers. 00:06:53.309 --> 00:06:56.579 Some have done it for many years, some have been piloting and are scaling. 00:06:56.579 --> 00:06:57.689 Some are new into that. 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:01.299 And that's both for enabling roles, you know, finance, hr, but also for 00:07:01.299 --> 00:07:02.829 technical roles and engineering roles. 00:07:03.069 --> 00:07:07.639 So more up the value chain, and that that meets the cost, cost, cost mandate. 00:07:08.359 --> 00:07:12.913 but in terms of, what work will be done in that work redesign, 00:07:12.973 --> 00:07:17.593 the di direction of travel is, is broadly moving away from jobs. 00:07:18.013 --> 00:07:23.623 To skills and, and skills we like to think of as that, as the currency of agility. 00:07:24.073 --> 00:07:28.573 And this sets up firms to drive far more quickly that efficiency they want, 00:07:29.143 --> 00:07:32.883 uh, from their workforce, and they can staff up new projects far more quickly. 00:07:32.883 --> 00:07:35.493 They can respond to external market factors more quickly. 00:07:35.876 --> 00:07:41.246 And also I think enables intentional cross-functional mobility so uh, 00:07:41.246 --> 00:07:43.796 employees can get different experiences. 00:07:44.201 --> 00:07:46.226 As well, so what's in it for them is important. 00:07:47.111 --> 00:07:47.771 Victoria: So interest. 00:07:47.771 --> 00:07:48.761 So two things on this. 00:07:48.791 --> 00:07:54.601 Number one, I, I love this idea of skills because as a Gen X kid, no longer a kid, 00:07:54.691 --> 00:08:00.421 alas, but I mean, I always viewed my career as transferable skills, right? 00:08:00.421 --> 00:08:01.591 Like what is my next role? 00:08:01.591 --> 00:08:04.681 I don't know, but I have skills that are gonna take me to the next place. 00:08:04.981 --> 00:08:06.991 Um, and certainly when I was incorporated it was like, 00:08:06.991 --> 00:08:08.281 when say what job do you want? 00:08:08.281 --> 00:08:13.051 Well, I can't tell you the title, but I can tell you what it should compose of. 00:08:13.051 --> 00:08:14.551 So that's, that's one piece of it. 00:08:14.911 --> 00:08:19.351 The second piece on this, this is my cynics hat, comes 00:08:19.351 --> 00:08:21.091 onto this workforce redesign. 00:08:21.091 --> 00:08:24.361 'cause I spent a big part of my career at Shell, and. 00:08:24.654 --> 00:08:31.134 It was like every 18 months we reshuffled the deck chairs, threw them up in the air 00:08:31.134 --> 00:08:32.814 and said, Hey, go post for your job again. 00:08:33.234 --> 00:08:38.844 And that doesn't feel very agile, or encouraging for the employee. 00:08:38.874 --> 00:08:43.734 I'm, I assume the company got out of it what they wanted to get out of it. 00:08:44.214 --> 00:08:47.034 But I guess maybe the question then is, and, and I don't wanna, you 00:08:47.034 --> 00:08:48.174 know, I can point fingers at them. 00:08:48.174 --> 00:08:50.381 I'm not asking you to point fingers at anybody else, but. 00:08:50.779 --> 00:08:54.109 What's the characteristics of a good workforce redesign and how 00:08:54.109 --> 00:08:58.429 should it feel to the organization and to the people involved? 00:08:59.063 --> 00:09:01.043 Milan: So there's, there's two things here, Victoria. 00:09:01.043 --> 00:09:06.443 One is, how does work get designed and what is the composition 00:09:06.443 --> 00:09:07.823 of your workforce, right? 00:09:07.823 --> 00:09:11.033 So organizational, restructures and corporate life. 00:09:11.093 --> 00:09:14.543 I'm sure many of the listeners or views will be familiar with the, 00:09:14.543 --> 00:09:16.343 the cadence of how that flows. 00:09:16.666 --> 00:09:23.926 I'm gonna pivot a little bit to how do organizations change the way that work 00:09:23.926 --> 00:09:26.626 gets done to drive better outcomes? 00:09:26.626 --> 00:09:29.146 I'm gonna give you an example, 'cause I think this will clarify this. 00:09:29.146 --> 00:09:32.466 So it is some work, uh, that we did for an oil, gas, organizations. 00:09:32.466 --> 00:09:34.641 So, um, uh, an aligned industry. 00:09:35.311 --> 00:09:37.291 To, to chemicals that petrochemical end. 00:09:37.811 --> 00:09:41.591 And so we went in and then we, we deconstructed jobs 00:09:41.591 --> 00:09:42.941 to their core tasks, right? 00:09:42.941 --> 00:09:47.201 So we said, this is the job, but here are the tasks and here are the skills. 00:09:47.621 --> 00:09:52.081 And then we worked through what the impact of centralization of 00:09:52.081 --> 00:09:54.541 technology meant to those tasks. 00:09:54.601 --> 00:09:58.601 So think, increased use of sensors and remote monitoring. 00:09:59.281 --> 00:10:02.504 And then we said, right, where could those tasks be done? 00:10:02.594 --> 00:10:08.024 So in this organization, maintenance moved from, um, permanent on staff, on staff 00:10:08.024 --> 00:10:13.784 site to a shared services team that drove flexibility and efficiency tasks that were 00:10:13.784 --> 00:10:17.924 repetitive or transferred to automation or, or robotics that got the work done. 00:10:18.203 --> 00:10:24.563 Then we then reconstructed those jobs, through the lens of, of tasks and skills. 00:10:24.826 --> 00:10:30.016 Uh, and in this example of how you, you redesign No, no roles were eliminated. 00:10:30.106 --> 00:10:31.831 But instead the workforce was upskilled. 00:10:32.123 --> 00:10:34.121 and for me it was in the results, right? 00:10:34.121 --> 00:10:37.211 So it, it, it's, it sounds like great HR consulting, right? 00:10:37.211 --> 00:10:39.011 But what's the business benefit? 00:10:39.011 --> 00:10:44.241 And in this instance, that firm saw a 45% improvement on profitability 00:10:44.721 --> 00:10:49.491 driven by reconstructing their jobs and thinking about how things 00:10:49.491 --> 00:10:50.961 could get done in a different way. 00:10:50.961 --> 00:10:55.071 So instead of just looking at your organization and the, well, we've been 00:10:55.071 --> 00:10:57.474 doing this for five, 10 years, it's. 00:10:57.643 --> 00:11:01.393 Take it down to the granular, understand what is repetitive, understand what 00:11:01.453 --> 00:11:05.683 adds value, and then reconstruct that and create the organization to 00:11:05.683 --> 00:11:09.673 drive that, and that that will drive flexibility and efficiency as well. 00:11:10.283 --> 00:11:11.548 Victoria: Yeah, I could totally see that. 00:11:11.638 --> 00:11:15.028 In fact, you know, within my own small business, I've been doing 00:11:15.028 --> 00:11:18.988 this recently because I think this aspect of as a business grows and 00:11:18.988 --> 00:11:20.788 evolves, you just add stuff on. 00:11:20.818 --> 00:11:21.838 Like, oh, I can do that. 00:11:21.838 --> 00:11:25.018 I, and the right person may not be doing the right thing. 00:11:25.018 --> 00:11:27.508 Maybe it could be outsourced, maybe it could be shaped differently. 00:11:27.758 --> 00:11:29.153 Even to the extent that it's like. 00:11:29.888 --> 00:11:35.228 The business processes we were following four years ago may not make sense today. 00:11:35.628 --> 00:11:38.418 Or the tool that we're using has evolved. 00:11:38.868 --> 00:11:42.978 Have we evolved in terms of how we're using that tool, uh, and that technology. 00:11:43.333 --> 00:11:46.038 Milan: and and that's upskilling and reskilling. 00:11:46.038 --> 00:11:46.278 Right? 00:11:46.278 --> 00:11:49.818 And can you think, you know, just think about doing that on an enterprise 00:11:49.818 --> 00:11:52.413 wide level with 25, 30,000 employees. 00:11:52.413 --> 00:11:55.563 And then think about the advances in AI and all the technology 00:11:55.563 --> 00:11:56.793 that's being invested, right? 00:11:57.063 --> 00:11:58.473 And that you have to keep up to date. 00:11:58.473 --> 00:12:00.513 It's a significant investment. 00:12:01.053 --> 00:12:03.903 That organizations are making and that upskilling and reskilling just, 00:12:03.903 --> 00:12:05.043 it's not a one-off event, right? 00:12:05.043 --> 00:12:09.753 You have to keep up with software, uh, releases and understand how 00:12:09.753 --> 00:12:12.933 this all works together within your, your technology stack. 00:12:13.338 --> 00:12:16.188 Victoria: One of the other pieces of challenge I see, especially when we 00:12:16.188 --> 00:12:19.908 talk about a big organization, whether it's a thousand people or 20,000 00:12:19.908 --> 00:12:23.928 people, is the work doesn't stop, right? 00:12:23.928 --> 00:12:23.988 So. 00:12:25.358 --> 00:12:29.558 Regardless of what I'm doing today, it needs to continue to be done. 00:12:29.918 --> 00:12:33.938 Um, and I can't pause and say, okay, we're gonna take a day and we're all gonna swap 00:12:33.938 --> 00:12:38.198 stuff around before we get going again because your plans will shut down, your 00:12:38.198 --> 00:12:40.088 customers will be unhappy, et cetera. 00:12:40.298 --> 00:12:44.048 How do you navigate that aspect of evolution? 00:12:45.048 --> 00:12:45.528 Milan: Yeah. 00:12:45.588 --> 00:12:49.698 So look, I think, I think it's about strong project management and also a, 00:12:49.703 --> 00:12:51.498 a, a strong dose of realism, right? 00:12:51.708 --> 00:12:55.118 There are, probably certain times in the year where you wouldn't start 00:12:55.118 --> 00:12:58.988 doing these types of transformation programs, and there are probably 00:12:58.988 --> 00:13:00.518 certain environments where you wouldn't. 00:13:00.708 --> 00:13:04.998 I'm a big fan of piloting, uh, and, and taking, discreet areas of the 00:13:04.998 --> 00:13:07.178 business, and, and driving through. 00:13:07.718 --> 00:13:11.818 To see, you know, how easy or or otherwise, uh, a transformation of 00:13:11.878 --> 00:13:12.988 of, of something like work design. 00:13:14.509 --> 00:13:18.259 I think what's what's different though, in what, you know, could be perceived 00:13:18.259 --> 00:13:22.999 as a a, you know, a challenging business transformation is, um, you've got, 00:13:23.029 --> 00:13:27.933 you've got technology, which, you know, platforms that will do pretty quick 00:13:27.933 --> 00:13:31.903 assessments of, of tasks, giving you a view of, of how easily they can be 00:13:31.903 --> 00:13:35.743 automated, how much time is saved, what is the productivity improvement. 00:13:36.373 --> 00:13:37.273 And a lot of data. 00:13:37.333 --> 00:13:42.873 So for example, Mercer, my organization has a deep, rich skills library, that 00:13:42.873 --> 00:13:46.853 has, skills and competencies, uh, and what qualifications are required. 00:13:46.853 --> 00:13:50.963 That just allows organizations and our, our own consultants to really 00:13:50.963 --> 00:13:53.969 navigate very, very quickly, what makes sense and what doesn't is you're 00:13:53.999 --> 00:13:55.379 looking at this type of work redesign. 00:13:55.739 --> 00:13:56.099 Victoria: Yeah. 00:13:56.489 --> 00:13:58.199 What's the role of technology in all this? 00:13:58.199 --> 00:14:02.729 So you started referencing it and I think about, the workforce of the future is 00:14:02.729 --> 00:14:05.879 certainly different than the workforce of the past and the way we do it. 00:14:05.909 --> 00:14:05.969 Um. 00:14:06.419 --> 00:14:11.219 And, and when I talk to companies, they're struggling a bit with 00:14:11.249 --> 00:14:17.729 how and where to adopt technology appropriately, particularly ai, right? 00:14:17.729 --> 00:14:20.159 So, I mean, I think AI is scaling quickly. 00:14:20.489 --> 00:14:23.489 Nobody even knew how to spell it two years ago, and now we're 00:14:23.489 --> 00:14:24.749 worried about it replacing our jobs. 00:14:25.304 --> 00:14:27.824 I don't think they're ever, it's ever gonna actually replace jobs 00:14:27.824 --> 00:14:32.384 because people still need people to think, create, et cetera. 00:14:32.694 --> 00:14:37.014 But how does that participate in this and what are you seeing and hearing 00:14:37.014 --> 00:14:39.384 from companies and clients and leaders? 00:14:40.128 --> 00:14:42.138 Milan: Yeah, it is still an emerging. 00:14:43.023 --> 00:14:44.583 It's still an emerging technology. 00:14:44.583 --> 00:14:47.673 Organizations are still working through how best that they can 00:14:48.063 --> 00:14:51.513 drive that technology into their workflows and their processes. 00:14:52.023 --> 00:14:55.263 But I'm, I'm not sure that you can just throw AI at a team 00:14:55.263 --> 00:14:56.733 and go figure it out yourself. 00:14:56.733 --> 00:14:57.033 Right. 00:14:57.033 --> 00:15:00.393 I think, I think there needs to be about a bit of discipline there that goes 00:15:00.753 --> 00:15:04.863 well, if we look at our workflows, uh, and the way that this team delivers. 00:15:05.193 --> 00:15:09.603 Where does it make sense to insert AI as part of that workflow? 00:15:10.053 --> 00:15:12.993 A and what sort of due diligence or peer reviewed do you need to do 00:15:12.993 --> 00:15:16.863 to ensure that, that the AI is, is giving you that right data as well? 00:15:17.343 --> 00:15:21.003 So I think it, it, you, you, if you want to really drive those, 00:15:21.003 --> 00:15:24.013 those levels of productivity and efficiency, you've got to really 00:15:24.013 --> 00:15:27.073 again, embed it in a pretty granular. 00:15:27.499 --> 00:15:28.039 Way. 00:15:28.069 --> 00:15:32.239 And, and you know, I still think, you know, I speak to a lot of organizations 00:15:32.239 --> 00:15:33.649 and they say, yeah, we are using ai. 00:15:33.709 --> 00:15:34.819 We, we've got copilot. 00:15:34.854 --> 00:15:39.529 And, and that is a true statement, but I think the evolution of AI will, 00:15:39.589 --> 00:15:42.859 will, will lead that statement, you know, to dust in the next, you know, 00:15:42.889 --> 00:15:46.939 x number of months as organizations start to figure out how they can really 00:15:46.939 --> 00:15:51.049 drive the power of this technology for their commercial benefit gain. 00:15:51.564 --> 00:15:51.814 Victoria: Yeah. 00:15:52.054 --> 00:15:55.754 Well, and in fact, I, I spoke with or had a, member of Marsh. 00:15:55.754 --> 00:16:03.194 So one of your sister companies, I guess, um, talking about AI and uh, and the risk 00:16:03.194 --> 00:16:07.604 of it, and so it was around this aspect of, um, companies need clear policies 00:16:07.604 --> 00:16:11.084 actually in terms of how to utilize that. 00:16:11.504 --> 00:16:13.034 Where do you see this fitting? 00:16:13.124 --> 00:16:18.834 Where do you see kind of the decision on how to use I ai, how to, organize 00:16:18.834 --> 00:16:21.294 those policies fitting and aligning? 00:16:21.294 --> 00:16:23.364 When I think about hr, is it in. 00:16:23.979 --> 00:16:24.129 It. 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:26.499 Is it someplace else in the business? 00:16:26.889 --> 00:16:28.629 Is it a combination thereof? 00:16:28.659 --> 00:16:31.179 I mean, when you know what's the best practice here? 00:16:31.194 --> 00:16:31.854 Milan: yeah. 00:16:32.004 --> 00:16:33.834 I mean, again, it is still emerging. 00:16:33.894 --> 00:16:37.734 Um, my, my view would be that it's, it is probably owned by some senior. 00:16:37.826 --> 00:16:40.466 Stakeholders on, on executive committees. 00:16:40.496 --> 00:16:47.486 I think, uh, HR teams hold an inordinate amount of sensitive personal data of 00:16:47.486 --> 00:16:52.506 their employees, uh, and you would want to ensure that that is kept, safe as well. 00:16:52.506 --> 00:16:57.813 So, I think a lot of organizations, that I work with, consult with, uh, have got 00:16:57.813 --> 00:16:59.913 their own proprietary, uh, platforms. 00:17:00.318 --> 00:17:02.238 That creates that level of security. 00:17:02.748 --> 00:17:07.398 But we have data also that suggests that, you know, HR leaders still see 00:17:07.878 --> 00:17:13.231 the use of AI as, as increasing the risk in their organization and, the 00:17:13.231 --> 00:17:18.841 industries, chemical oil and gas, traditionally, you know, quite cautious 00:17:18.841 --> 00:17:20.461 industries for very good reasons. 00:17:20.461 --> 00:17:23.808 And so I think they're probably adopting a, you know. 00:17:24.183 --> 00:17:26.973 A thoughtful introduction of the technology. 00:17:27.193 --> 00:17:28.723 So more on that. 00:17:28.783 --> 00:17:32.143 I mean, we, we, as part of the research that we've currently engaging 00:17:32.143 --> 00:17:36.073 in the market for energy and, and chemical HR leaders, we, we are 00:17:36.073 --> 00:17:40.873 asking the question of, of their personal usage of ai and then also, 00:17:40.923 --> 00:17:43.203 where their HR teams are in terms of. 00:17:43.818 --> 00:17:48.008 Proficiency of using, AI and, and what they think that looks like, and also 00:17:48.008 --> 00:17:52.598 their confidence in the responses they're getting back from external platforms. 00:17:52.598 --> 00:17:56.018 So I, I can share that with you in, in Houston and September 00:17:56.018 --> 00:17:57.038 at the conference as well. 00:17:57.038 --> 00:17:58.178 It should be interesting to see 00:17:58.478 --> 00:17:58.718 where 00:17:58.718 --> 00:18:00.103 that, uh, where that lands. 00:18:00.433 --> 00:18:01.423 Victoria: Yeah, that'll be great. 00:18:01.423 --> 00:18:04.213 'cause I do think, uh, you know, I'm not sure anybody claims to be fully 00:18:04.213 --> 00:18:06.073 proficient, but maybe somebody does. 00:18:06.103 --> 00:18:10.103 Um, and, and what's even interesting, I've spoken with, leaders at some of 00:18:10.103 --> 00:18:14.063 the biggest chemical companies and energy companies and, and had this 00:18:14.063 --> 00:18:15.743 conversation probably about a year ago. 00:18:15.743 --> 00:18:19.523 In fact, the one that I'm specifically thinking about, about the use of, 00:18:19.703 --> 00:18:21.263 for instance, chat GPT, right? 00:18:21.263 --> 00:18:22.463 That's our our thing. 00:18:22.463 --> 00:18:25.763 In fact, I've talked to a number of leaders who say, well, I can't use 00:18:25.763 --> 00:18:31.163 it on my corporate computer, but I'll pull it up on my personal iPad to do. 00:18:31.898 --> 00:18:35.348 Research on a company or do whatever, whatever tactic it is. 00:18:35.408 --> 00:18:39.278 And so I think it's an interesting, um, it's fast moving, but 00:18:39.308 --> 00:18:40.868 companies need to figure this out. 00:18:40.948 --> 00:18:44.158 In terms of, you know, there's this whole control aspect. 00:18:44.158 --> 00:18:48.478 You certainly, hopefully people know not to put corporate data in a public system. 00:18:48.478 --> 00:18:51.358 But again, not everybody knows and recognizes that. 00:18:51.688 --> 00:18:54.808 But this whole alignment of, okay, we, you know, get with the 00:18:54.808 --> 00:18:56.488 program or you're gonna miss out. 00:18:56.518 --> 00:19:00.358 Um, and, and that's a little bit of where it feels like from an AI perspective. 00:19:01.003 --> 00:19:04.723 Yeah, so, so you're doing, you've talked about doing this survey with, 00:19:04.783 --> 00:19:08.953 um, of HR priorities for energy and chemical leaders, and I'm super excited 00:19:08.953 --> 00:19:10.423 to hear more about that at the summit. 00:19:11.143 --> 00:19:12.733 What about employees? 00:19:12.763 --> 00:19:18.013 What are employees asking for these days and what's, because I feel like there's a 00:19:18.013 --> 00:19:21.883 little bit of misalignment at the moment, but I don't know what you're seeing. 00:19:22.783 --> 00:19:23.293 Milan: Yeah. 00:19:23.473 --> 00:19:28.593 So, Mercer conducted, a US survey called Inside Employees Mines. 00:19:28.653 --> 00:19:34.373 And we cut the data by roll holders across all industries in the us but those 00:19:34.373 --> 00:19:40.293 that were involved in manufacturing, construction, skills trade, and the 00:19:40.293 --> 00:19:44.523 top factors, that attracted them to their current employer, right? 00:19:44.523 --> 00:19:49.593 So this is about how I get that talent through the door was pay 00:19:50.428 --> 00:19:50.648 Victoria: Hmm. 00:19:50.763 --> 00:19:52.083 Milan: probably no surprise. 00:19:52.143 --> 00:19:52.353 And then. 00:19:52.698 --> 00:19:53.118 Victoria: pay me. 00:19:53.553 --> 00:19:57.303 Milan: Then, then healthcare benefits in US perspective, no surprise. 00:19:57.903 --> 00:20:01.293 But there was quite a significant delta between those two. 00:20:01.293 --> 00:20:03.633 So pay was strongly number one. 00:20:03.723 --> 00:20:08.423 So it's, it's all about, the, the salary, the remuneration. 00:20:08.603 --> 00:20:13.453 And I think that still holds true, but when we asked that the same 00:20:13.453 --> 00:20:17.053 group, uh, what aspects of the work package they found attractive, 00:20:17.053 --> 00:20:19.123 so I guess that's as they were. 00:20:19.528 --> 00:20:22.678 In the organization rather than joining the organization. 00:20:22.831 --> 00:20:27.931 The top three by rank were pay and number one, healthcare benefits, number 00:20:27.931 --> 00:20:29.971 two, and retirement number three. 00:20:30.241 --> 00:20:35.221 But what we did notice is that huge, significant lead that pay had as they 00:20:35.221 --> 00:20:38.971 were coming into the organization dropped quite significantly. 00:20:38.971 --> 00:20:42.571 So I think there's probably something there about organizations where 00:20:42.571 --> 00:20:44.851 they're attracting talent emphasizing. 00:20:45.741 --> 00:20:49.491 What the value is of their healthcare benefits and their retirement 00:20:49.491 --> 00:20:52.971 programs as well as the base salary. 00:20:53.421 --> 00:20:57.261 And then just to finish this one off, we then ask that group what would cause 00:20:57.261 --> 00:20:59.631 them to leave their current employer. 00:20:59.991 --> 00:21:06.591 And no surprise, number one, pay number two benefits. 00:21:06.741 --> 00:21:09.801 But number three, and I think this is really important, it speaks to what 00:21:09.801 --> 00:21:11.361 it is that that employees across. 00:21:11.896 --> 00:21:17.336 Industries are thinking about was being burnt out because of demanding workload. 00:21:19.496 --> 00:21:20.906 And so there's something here. 00:21:20.906 --> 00:21:22.586 So remember we went right back at the beginning. 00:21:22.586 --> 00:21:25.826 We talked about the importance of line managers driving performance, 00:21:25.826 --> 00:21:27.566 performance management being key. 00:21:28.181 --> 00:21:31.721 Simplify, simplify, simplify, grow, grow, grow, cost, cost, cost costs. 00:21:32.021 --> 00:21:35.561 I think what you're starting to see in that is, is you know, that constant 00:21:35.621 --> 00:21:39.791 transformation, that constant pressure, that constant change in organizations 00:21:39.791 --> 00:21:44.051 as they navigate these economic times, is starting to be seen through that, 00:21:44.051 --> 00:21:49.781 that sense of, um, workload, um, employee wellbeing, um, potentially 00:21:49.781 --> 00:21:51.731 some mental health challenges there. 00:21:52.928 --> 00:21:56.198 I thought, well, maybe there's something some other data. 00:21:56.198 --> 00:21:58.968 So I, I, I looked into our data sets and there was a North 00:21:58.968 --> 00:22:00.488 American healthcare, survey. 00:22:00.488 --> 00:22:01.208 Mercer did. 00:22:01.278 --> 00:22:04.368 And I looked at the North American Chemical data cut for that. 00:22:05.118 --> 00:22:08.868 And, we asked the jobs, were these employees, uh, actively 00:22:08.868 --> 00:22:10.908 looking for a new job, right? 00:22:10.908 --> 00:22:14.598 That also speaks to how happy they are, what, what, what they value. 00:22:14.981 --> 00:22:18.666 And only 30% of chemical employees reported that they were not 00:22:19.511 --> 00:22:21.101 actively looking for a new job. 00:22:21.851 --> 00:22:23.501 So, um, I think there's that 00:22:23.711 --> 00:22:27.116 Victoria: So you're saying 70% are actively looking. 00:22:27.491 --> 00:22:32.231 Milan: so yeah, 53, uh, were actively looking at and 17% 00:22:32.531 --> 00:22:33.791 sat on the fence, right? 00:22:33.971 --> 00:22:34.661 Victoria: That's a big 00:22:34.661 --> 00:22:36.821 Milan: that, that is a big number. 00:22:36.821 --> 00:22:37.121 Right. 00:22:37.151 --> 00:22:39.161 And so, they, they join you for pay. 00:22:39.161 --> 00:22:40.151 That's what they say. 00:22:40.181 --> 00:22:43.571 They stay with you for pay and benefits and 00:22:43.571 --> 00:22:44.171 retirement 00:22:44.441 --> 00:22:45.101 Victoria: benefits, right? 00:22:45.131 --> 00:22:45.191 The 00:22:45.236 --> 00:22:46.436 Milan: There Retirement benefits. 00:22:46.481 --> 00:22:47.081 Victoria: you there. 00:22:47.111 --> 00:22:47.501 Yeah. 00:22:47.501 --> 00:22:48.401 Mm-hmm. 00:22:49.796 --> 00:22:52.996 Milan: they, they, they see in themselves, , that the, the, the 00:22:52.996 --> 00:22:54.196 levels of pressure and overwork. 00:22:55.041 --> 00:22:56.031 Could lead to burnout. 00:22:56.061 --> 00:22:58.881 We, we see this in other studies that we do at Mercer as well. 00:22:58.981 --> 00:23:03.611 And then you see this propensity, potentially to leave organizations. 00:23:03.611 --> 00:23:04.121 Right? 00:23:04.171 --> 00:23:08.628 We also asked that, that group from the Mercer, healthcare and Demand, uh, 00:23:08.628 --> 00:23:12.688 so again, chemical Institute, we, we ask them, whether they felt stressed 00:23:12.688 --> 00:23:19.148 most days at work, because that kind of gets to how big or not an issue 00:23:19.148 --> 00:23:24.223 this is, and 53 agreed, or strongly agreed that they were. 00:23:24.373 --> 00:23:28.933 And um, so again, over 50% were saying they were stressed at work. 00:23:28.933 --> 00:23:30.539 So, The industry. 00:23:30.929 --> 00:23:35.969 Has always been so conscious about safety, um, health and safety, 00:23:36.029 --> 00:23:40.499 ingrained in the DNA and, and, but, but I, I do look at these numbers 00:23:40.499 --> 00:23:42.599 around employee self-reporting. 00:23:42.989 --> 00:23:44.759 The, uh, the likelihood. 00:23:44.819 --> 00:23:46.769 They're not saying they're going to be, but the likelihood of being, 00:23:47.249 --> 00:23:51.009 uh, burnt out or, or levels of stress on a daily basis, and all 00:23:51.009 --> 00:23:52.119 the other things that are going on. 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:53.979 Plus, you know, the business as usual. 00:23:54.549 --> 00:23:59.299 And I just wonder if organizations are doing enough to manage that 00:23:59.299 --> 00:24:00.834 wellbeing and that health aspect, 00:24:00.904 --> 00:24:04.024 Victoria: You know, there's, there's so much that we can unpack here and we 00:24:04.024 --> 00:24:05.554 don't have time to unpack all of it. 00:24:05.764 --> 00:24:10.204 But the couple of things that strikes me and, and I've heard the stories 00:24:10.204 --> 00:24:12.984 recently, so first of all, I'm a believer that people leave people. 00:24:14.234 --> 00:24:18.284 So you get attracted in, to the company for a variety of reasons. 00:24:18.284 --> 00:24:22.934 It's the external lens that brings people into a company and it's pay, and it's 00:24:22.934 --> 00:24:26.144 what that company looks like and what you think the value proposition is, et cetera. 00:24:26.204 --> 00:24:28.274 And then you get inside and you're living it. 00:24:28.779 --> 00:24:31.839 And pay may not be enough, especially if you can leave and get the pay. 00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:34.089 So, you know, let's just assume those basic needs are met. 00:24:34.149 --> 00:24:36.999 And then it is the people and the people are driving the 00:24:36.999 --> 00:24:39.009 workload and the expectations. 00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:42.849 , And I think this is so true across all industries, chemicals 00:24:42.849 --> 00:24:44.859 and others, um, I was, uh. 00:24:45.139 --> 00:24:49.009 Spent some time last week with a couple of my sisters and one of whom 00:24:50.389 --> 00:24:54.589 was stressed out on work even though she was on vacation because her top 00:24:54.589 --> 00:25:02.749 employee left because there's a sales role and the targets kept getting 00:25:02.749 --> 00:25:07.939 so high and he was already the top performer and as the top performer. 00:25:08.259 --> 00:25:10.119 What happens when you're a good performer? 00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:14.229 They just set the targets even higher and higher and higher, and 00:25:14.229 --> 00:25:19.359 it became untenable and he went to a company that wasn't gonna hold him 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:20.259 accountable to those same kind of. 00:25:21.204 --> 00:25:26.204 Untenable targets, and was able to get his bonus without egregious sales goals. 00:25:26.204 --> 00:25:28.364 And so I think that's an example. 00:25:28.484 --> 00:25:32.714 And she's like, and I'm telling my organization this is what's going on. 00:25:32.714 --> 00:25:33.584 They're like, that's okay. 00:25:33.704 --> 00:25:34.874 Here's your new goals. 00:25:34.904 --> 00:25:35.534 Go meet them. 00:25:35.864 --> 00:25:37.574 She's like, you're not hearing me. 00:25:37.694 --> 00:25:37.904 You're 00:25:38.069 --> 00:25:41.444 Milan: so so work, work life balance is important, right? 00:25:41.444 --> 00:25:44.684 And And that's a great example that you just gave, but also it goes 00:25:44.684 --> 00:25:46.059 down to KPI setting rights and. 00:25:46.439 --> 00:25:46.729 Victoria: Yeah. 00:25:47.264 --> 00:25:49.334 Milan: That's something that we've been working with organizations 00:25:49.334 --> 00:25:52.034 on, what are the right KPIs to drive the right performance? 00:25:52.034 --> 00:25:56.264 What's the right KPIs that drive that bonus outcome, but also allow the 00:25:56.264 --> 00:25:59.744 organization to meet its its goals for its stakeholders and shareholders. 00:25:59.744 --> 00:26:01.904 So you've gotta get those things right. 00:26:01.904 --> 00:26:02.114 Right. 00:26:02.114 --> 00:26:05.504 It you just, it's not as, you just can't keep loading and loading you. 00:26:05.509 --> 00:26:08.444 You have to think about how you calibrate this and how you. 00:26:08.879 --> 00:26:13.829 You balance it and, and, and you know, again, it, you organizations 00:26:13.829 --> 00:26:16.199 have a responsibility for the health and wellbeing of their 00:26:16.199 --> 00:26:18.329 employees, um, in a holistic sense. 00:26:18.429 --> 00:26:21.774 And look, I think the industry does a, a, a relatively good job of that, 00:26:21.834 --> 00:26:25.894 but, um, I think it needs to keep on top of it, on a regular basis. 00:26:26.614 --> 00:26:26.854 Victoria: Yeah. 00:26:27.184 --> 00:26:31.924 So one of the questions I had for you, Milan, is around this whole talent 00:26:31.924 --> 00:26:35.561 aspect talk about, the workforce redesign and driving people towards 00:26:35.561 --> 00:26:40.571 skills and realignment, the, this whole aspect of agility and performance. 00:26:40.691 --> 00:26:45.701 And then from a people perspective, one, I do believe people wanna continue to, most 00:26:45.701 --> 00:26:50.861 people wanna continue to grow, develop, improve their skills, achieve the next 00:26:50.861 --> 00:26:52.241 level, whatever that looks like for them. 00:26:52.861 --> 00:26:57.241 sometimes it also feels like the opportunities, the o the development 00:26:57.241 --> 00:27:02.701 opportunities, the ability to go from, to develop these skills or to get promoted 00:27:02.701 --> 00:27:07.581 or to get cross-functionally trained, et cetera, really favor the big companies. 00:27:07.641 --> 00:27:12.891 And yet we know the vast majority of companies across the chemical 00:27:12.891 --> 00:27:15.381 industry are small to midsize. 00:27:15.381 --> 00:27:15.771 So. 00:27:15.951 --> 00:27:16.241 Milan: Yeah. 00:27:16.491 --> 00:27:19.371 Victoria: However you wanna categorize that, but you know, there they're 00:27:19.371 --> 00:27:22.161 less than a thousand employees or less than 2000 employees. 00:27:22.266 --> 00:27:22.506 Milan: Yeah. 00:27:22.831 --> 00:27:28.097 Victoria: How do companies who have a smaller number of employees, a 00:27:28.097 --> 00:27:33.877 smaller platform, a smaller scope, really get the same results for 00:27:33.877 --> 00:27:35.572 themselves and for their employees? 00:27:36.391 --> 00:27:39.271 Milan: Yeah, I mean, it is a challenge, right? 00:27:39.331 --> 00:27:43.407 But I think, if organizations, with a smaller number of employees, 00:27:43.407 --> 00:27:46.527 I think they have to be far more intentional in this space. 00:27:46.527 --> 00:27:48.537 They just cannot leave it to chance, right? 00:27:48.537 --> 00:27:54.281 So I think they should, emphasize, uh, skills growth, thinking about 00:27:54.641 --> 00:27:57.851 judiciously, adding on additional responsibilities to the role. 00:27:58.384 --> 00:28:03.214 Look for ways to allow for cross team collaboration, um, 00:28:03.214 --> 00:28:05.224 short term rotations, right? 00:28:05.224 --> 00:28:08.764 So somebody in finance might be interested in health and safety. 00:28:09.094 --> 00:28:10.324 Is there a role there? 00:28:10.324 --> 00:28:15.454 Can they move in one day a week for a couple of months, help on a project, get a 00:28:15.454 --> 00:28:18.434 flavor of, of what that, , can look like? 00:28:18.764 --> 00:28:21.674 . And that also can allow for some agility. 00:28:21.674 --> 00:28:24.794 You've gotta get that balance right, but you can team up for 00:28:24.794 --> 00:28:26.764 short term projects, that way. 00:28:27.394 --> 00:28:30.514 I think being purposeful around mentoring and also reverse mentoring. 00:28:30.514 --> 00:28:35.414 So, just because I guess my, my point of view is just because organizations 00:28:35.414 --> 00:28:38.774 are small, doesn't excuse 'em from developing and nurturing their staff. 00:28:38.774 --> 00:28:39.014 Right? 00:28:39.014 --> 00:28:41.544 So, I, I think it's about intentionality. 00:28:41.544 --> 00:28:43.014 You may not have these big. 00:28:43.499 --> 00:28:47.999 Full scale programs of an organization that has 50,000, but that doesn't stop 00:28:47.999 --> 00:28:50.639 you from creating something that's quite unique for your organization. 00:28:51.129 --> 00:28:55.659 So I guess, look, small companies, they, they can't, by their very nature promise 00:28:55.659 --> 00:28:57.969 the next, uh, rung up the ladder, right? 00:28:58.089 --> 00:29:00.219 But what's the next best thing they can probably do? 00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:03.849 I think they can help, uh, their employees by offering them the, the 00:29:03.849 --> 00:29:07.509 hammer, the nails, and the freedom to build the next rung themselves, right? 00:29:07.509 --> 00:29:11.739 So it is about that collaboration between employer and employee 00:29:11.859 --> 00:29:13.059 and, and, and making it. 00:29:13.389 --> 00:29:16.389 Very granular and very real in a small organization. 00:29:16.389 --> 00:29:20.289 I'm, look, I'm not saying it's easy, but I think with that purpose and 00:29:20.289 --> 00:29:24.189 that intent, you can drive some, some good outcomes for employees. 00:29:24.479 --> 00:29:25.269 Victoria: Yeah, makes sense. 00:29:25.269 --> 00:29:26.679 I, and I agree a lot with that. 00:29:26.679 --> 00:29:29.859 I think this whole, I like your idea of even just one day a week, 00:29:29.919 --> 00:29:31.479 working in a different space. 00:29:31.912 --> 00:29:35.392 Because frankly, um, you know, you can give up that person, the 00:29:35.392 --> 00:29:37.432 other group can use the support. 00:29:37.462 --> 00:29:39.922 Um, it's a manageable construct. 00:29:40.522 --> 00:29:40.942 Milan: Yeah. 00:29:40.942 --> 00:29:42.472 It, it, it, yeah. 00:29:42.652 --> 00:29:43.967 It, it, it, it is pragmatic, 00:29:44.602 --> 00:29:44.932 Victoria: yeah. 00:29:45.127 --> 00:29:46.167 Milan: is always important. 00:29:46.582 --> 00:29:47.362 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:29:47.572 --> 00:29:49.942 So, okay, I've got two final questions for you, Milan. 00:29:49.942 --> 00:29:51.862 So, number one is, you know, if, if. 00:29:52.627 --> 00:29:53.857 Somebody's listening to this. 00:29:53.857 --> 00:29:57.877 If you're a leader leading people, hopefully all people are leading people 00:29:57.877 --> 00:29:59.437 in one way, shape, or form, right? 00:29:59.437 --> 00:30:00.967 Whether it's a formal or informal. 00:30:01.387 --> 00:30:07.817 What's one thing that leaders can be doing today, to improve 00:30:08.387 --> 00:30:10.037 agility, workforce, et cetera? 00:30:10.574 --> 00:30:12.584 Milan: I would suggest two things. 00:30:12.584 --> 00:30:16.034 One is if you are not doing, uh, employee engagement surveys, if 00:30:16.034 --> 00:30:20.174 you're not getting that real and raw feedback from your employees, get onto 00:30:20.174 --> 00:30:22.484 that, uh, and get onto that quickly. 00:30:22.534 --> 00:30:27.824 Because I think organizations that create, programs based on what they think, 00:30:27.874 --> 00:30:29.554 , rather than what the data shows them. 00:30:30.094 --> 00:30:33.364 Could be misguided in, in, in, in how they spend their money 00:30:33.364 --> 00:30:34.474 on developing their people. 00:30:34.474 --> 00:30:35.614 So I think that's number one. 00:30:36.064 --> 00:30:40.534 And two, if they're seeking that agility, think about, piloting, uh, some of 00:30:40.534 --> 00:30:45.754 those, jobs to skills that I referenced and unsurprisingly, Mercer is, is 00:30:45.754 --> 00:30:49.774 big in both those employee engagement spaces and, and through the work of 00:30:49.774 --> 00:30:54.274 our transformation teams, uh, helping organizations move from jobs to skills. 00:30:54.506 --> 00:30:54.746 Victoria: Good. 00:30:54.896 --> 00:30:55.166 Alright. 00:30:55.166 --> 00:30:58.586 And then my question number two is, um, I love to ask people, you 00:30:58.586 --> 00:31:01.286 know, the leadership question, which is a little bit more about you. 00:31:01.286 --> 00:31:06.296 So Milan, if, um, you were advising a young Milan Taylor 00:31:06.716 --> 00:31:09.386 just early in his career about. 00:31:09.803 --> 00:31:14.693 Some keys to success to help you get from where you were to where you are today. 00:31:14.693 --> 00:31:15.508 What's your advice? 00:31:16.294 --> 00:31:17.224 , Milan: Authenticity. 00:31:17.224 --> 00:31:19.294 Number one, always be true to yourself. 00:31:19.294 --> 00:31:21.244 People will see through you if you're not. 00:31:21.664 --> 00:31:26.254 Two, always be honest because people will not forgive you if they find that 00:31:26.254 --> 00:31:27.994 you've been, uh, anything but that. 00:31:28.654 --> 00:31:32.374 Uh, and third, take the time to understand the people that you work 00:31:32.374 --> 00:31:34.114 with and the people that you work for. 00:31:34.174 --> 00:31:36.934 It'll pay you back in dividends throughout your career. 00:31:37.729 --> 00:31:38.059 Victoria: Love it. 00:31:38.089 --> 00:31:38.509 Perfect. 00:31:38.569 --> 00:31:40.099 Milan, thank you so much for this. 00:31:40.099 --> 00:31:43.249 I appreciate your time today and I'm really looking forward 00:31:43.249 --> 00:31:46.399 to seeing you at the Chemical Summit at the end of September. 00:31:46.624 --> 00:31:47.074 Milan: Me too. 00:31:47.164 --> 00:31:48.034 Thank you so much. 00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:50.029 Victoria: Thank you, and thank you everyone for joining us today. 00:31:50.029 --> 00:31:52.669 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will 00:31:52.669 --> 00:31:54.319 talk with you again soon. 00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:54.379 I.