Hi guys.
This interview was recorded at the Chemical Summit last week live with
Jimmy Jett Jimmy is the CEO of Integrity Biochem, and jimmy and I talked
about what it takes to be a startup in an old school chemical industry.
In fact, it kept the theme of transformation that we talked
about that day in actually throughout the Chemical Summit.
So you're in for a real treat.
Listen in, and there's a lot of laughter, a lot of great conversation and more.
Here we go.
Victoria: uh, you
know, we've kind of just been in a whole conversation today about transformation
and the changes that the industry is in.
Through economics, trade, geopolitics.
We talked about the forces of technology and sustainability
and, and other things and talent.
Um, and my conversation today with Jimmy is gonna wrap it all together.
That's my promise.
He's really sad that I promised anything, by the way, but that's okay.
I think you're gonna love it.
I've gotten to know, uh, Jimmy and the Integrity Biochem team over
the last several years and, what they're doing is really amazing.
Uh, especially when you think about, and we call this, this topic startup
energy in an old school industry.
'cause it's not easy to be a startup in a industry that's a hundred years old.
Right.
And takes some different dynamics.
Disruptive.
Enterprising.
Awesome.
Well, I think, um, I think I, B, C and Jimmy and your whole team is that
and more, so we're gonna move on.
You can switch to the next one.
There we go.
We're gonna, we're gonna get rolling here.
So, First maybe let's just talk about who is.
Integrity, biochem.
'cause people may not know, you know, I like to start my interviews that way.
Jimmy Jett: Um, integrity Biochem was founded with a unique technology
platform that actually came outta the pharmaceutical space.
My partner, doc Landis over there, one of the founders of the business
and one of the first investors with myself, we ran across, we were
working, we were consulting, working for private equity, working for
some companies that were helping.
We were helping 'em, you know, with their commercial plans and technology plans.
And we came across this really unique platform in the pharmaceutical space.
And when I looked at it, I was like, man, this is interesting
because it could scale.
The price point was right and it, we felt like it, it was a fit in
the, in the, in the energy space.
And so I called Doc Landis who has worked at Halliburton and,
and is smartest guy I know.
And I said, man, look at this and tell me what you think.
And he's like, man, I feel like we're at the garage, in the garage with, at Apple.
Like this is the real deal.
It's, it's the price point's, right?
I can sell this in the, in the.
Oil and gas space.
Let's do this.
And so we, it was a trust fall.
We just invested, went all in, and then quickly two years later, told the
pharmaceutical company that was going out of business, you know, we would, we
would make $1, they'd spend 10 on white rooms and trials and, uh, I'm no CFO,
but you know, in those board meetings, I knew we were headed for a train wreck.
So I politely offered to raise money for them and buy the technology.
We pitched it to two companies.
They both said, man, we're all in.
And then.
We met with a, a kind of a private wealth guide that we really liked and just
kind of jihad with, and, uh, we put an investment group together and bought the
technology and moved it to the DFW area and started Integrity Biochem in 2017.
Victoria: That's cool.
So what made you real?
What made you believe.
That there was a space, um, for a startup like Integrity Biochem
in such a traditional industry.
Right.
You guys started in oil field, you've shifted into chemicals trying, selling
into personal care and other spaces.
Jimmy Jett: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: How did you know, what made you believe there was room?
Jimmy Jett: It started with the technology, right?
So we.
You know, doc and I spent a lot of late nights talking about, you
know, what it would look like to get back in the chemical game.
And we didn't want to be pots and pans.
The blending, the blending business was very crowded.
We wanted to get into something that would, would add value, and when we
came across this technology platform, we just knew that this was it.
And so we, we left a very comfortable work-life balance consulting gig
and decided to go all in and not.
Sleep for five years.
So it's been, uh, it's been a lot of fun.
Victoria: Well, and it, and it ties into, you know, when people said, uh,
the question we asked about, what do you think of when you think of startup,
it's pace and mindset and fast paced.
How does that mindset, um, the mindset and the pace of a startup differ
for, from old school companies is kind of our, our frame to a startup?
What's, how do you see this?
What is your pace?
Jimmy Jett: I mean, it, it, it's interesting, right?
'cause there's a lot of ways to start a business.
We, we did it with, with, with our own money and, and a group of investors.
And we've, we've worked out a cash flow since we started.
We've grown from a three acre campus to a 60 acre campus.
Um, and, and it's been a, a phenomenal growth story, but the,
the pace is definitely different.
I mean, you, you are, every dollar you spend is real.
And, um, you don't have the safety net of a big company to kind of back you up.
And so your decisions have to be made.
It to the best of your ability.
Now we, you fail a lot.
There's a lot of decisions that weren't perfect, but you have to be able to
correct and move quickly, redirect, and focus and uh, and, and kind of redirect
your, your capital in the right way.
And we've been very fortunate in that you, you surround yourself
with the right, right team.
It all goes back to people.
I think Todd talked about that earlier on a different scale.
But I mean, it's people, right?
So you take all the good people you've worked with in your career.
You pick the best ones.
You, you, you beg 'em to join and say, Hey, this is a crazy idea.
Leave your comfortable big companies and let's go, let's go take a risk.
And um, and we did that successfully and we put a good team around us
and really were able to, to hit, hit the gas and, and do well.
Victoria: What's your culture?
How do you define your culture?
Jimmy Jett: culture is adaptive and, uh, and, and there's a lot of, uh,
you know, we, we adapt well and our culture is, is all about opportunity.
We're very opportunistic, right?
Um, and so when we see an opportunity, um, with our business, no matter what
market, we assess it quickly, decide if it's a fit, and then we run hard.
Sometimes we run right into walls and we have to go, oh wow, we were totally wrong.
We need to redirect and figure this out.
But we, we are very nimble.
We adapt quickly and um, and we, we can move, move on a dime.
Yeah.
Victoria: Um, you know, you talked though about the, this aspect of transformation
and you and I have talked about this, that just this pace of growth and getting
the right people and systems in place.
'cause I imagine, and every startup I've talked to and worked with, um.
You start out kind of wild, the wild, wild west, which is an oil field guy.
Mm-hmm.
That's comfortable.
Right.
Um, but at some point you have to build systems and processes
and start hiring people to work within those systems and processes.
Are you there?
How are you navigating that?
Jimmy Jett: I think it's a, a continual process.
Right.
Um.
We, we started in energy, so our business launched the technology
platform, went into energy, which our core team is very comfortable in.
I mean, we're all ex, you know, frack, chemical team, um,
drilling, frack completions.
That's, we feel very comfortable in those circles.
As the technology evolved, we recognized it had a, a huge value in HI and I,
personal coating, um, paint and coating.
So we've, we've, we've entered into these new markets and you do have to
bring on experts in those spaces, right?
And so, you know, there's a book I read a long time ago called
The Speed of Trust and, um.
It's, it was a very powerful, impactful book for me.
'cause it talks about how, you know, you gotta hire these people and trust
that they know what they're doing.
Um, you gotta put metrics in place, obviously, to make sure
they're, they're tracking.
But the reality is, um, our company, you know, we, we operate
at a high level of speed of trust and so we, we set objectives.
But we aren't micromanaging.
You're hiring people that have no idea what the oil and gas space is like.
They're coming in meshing their background in, in history with, with oil and
gas guys, which are, we're all crazy.
And so you, you have to trust that they know what they're doing.
And so it's been a big.
Big speed of trust case study, right?
I mean, you, you hire good people and you, you, you kind of shift from
making the decisions as a small group.
I mean, Laura was a founder, doc's a founder.
I mean, there used to be six of us around a table.
We knew every aspect of the business.
And then you start transitioning and you start bringing these experts and you gotta
trust that they know what they're doing and you shift from making the decision.
To asking the question, what do you need to be successful?
Tell me what you need.
You're the expert.
How can we help you?
What can I do to, to make sure, you know, any obstacles
we need to take outta the way.
So, so you're, these new business units can be successful.
So it's just kind of a mindset shift.
Victoria: Yeah.
Yeah.
And then, you know, we've talked a little bit today about putting
KPIs in place and measurement.
Is that a core part of what you guys do?
I mean, is again, when you think about trust.
Um, there's the whole trust but verify, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, it's like what am I trusting you with?
So, so is that, does, do KPIs and metrics play a big role in,
um, in your business as you grow?
Jimmy Jett: Absolutely.
I mean, you start about, talk about startup, right?
You start with a big chief tablet and that's, that's your financial plan, right?
And then you, then you move into, you know, QuickBooks
and then you're in chem packs.
We're in like our fourth ERP system 'cause we keep outgrowing
them 'cause metrics matter, right?
And me, metrics matter.
Differently in each business you're working in oil and gas,
the metrics that matter are, are truckloads out the door, right?
And, and you've gotta know what's, what's, you know, how,
what's the frac count, right?
You, there's, there's easy metrics.
It's what we're all comfortable with.
You start getting into personal care.
I and I, and you start talking about, you know, how many, how many SKUs are you in?
Or what, what does your, what does your development cycle look like?
You, you go from oil and gas with a six month.
Product launch to shipping 12 truckloads out a day to personal care that, you know,
you're, they're, they're talking about, Hey, we're specking you in, in two years.
This is gonna be the greatest thing ever.
You're gonna sell nine buckets and you're just like, oh, that's cool.
Probably should have read the fine print before we jumped into this market.
Um, but it's, it's just a different.
Set.
Right.
I mean, you're just totally, it's wild.
I mean, you jump into the mining industry and they're, they kind of,
it feels like oil and gas, right?
It's a giant water treatment plant and there's tons of volume.
So, you know, we feel very comfortable on a mine site.
You take me into the cosmetic shows in New York and I'm walking
around and they're thinking like.
They're on safari.
Like who's that?
Like I don't fit the mold at all.
I mean, people are like, what is this giant dude doing at our trade show?
And I'm, you know, but it's just, yeah.
So the metrics are real and metrics are different for each market.
So we've had to really identify what are those success metrics and what
do they look like and what do those timelines look like in each market?
And it's been, it's been challenging.
Very challenging.
Victoria: Yeah.
Well, and especially I think for the leadership team and you guys,
as you were, as you say, used to one type of business to have to evolve
and grow to a different type of business with different leadership.
Relinquishing some of that leadership and control.
Yep.
Jimmy Jett: Yeah.
Victoria: Keeps you up at night sometimes.
I'm sure
Jimmy Jett: it does.
It does.
It goes back to you gotta trust your teammates.
Right?
Um, I remember being in one of my first, you know, hi and I personal care
meetings, and I'm with our director of business, Mike Ver and we're sitting at
the table and they, they, you know, they, they, they were like, well, what does,
what does your lead times look like?
And so I'm like, I got this, Mike.
We can deliver full truckloads rail, 24 hours, you call 24 hour service.
And Mike looks at me, he is like, you've lost your mind.
This is HI and I, you tell 'em six weeks, they're gonna do a back flip and
think you're the greatest company ever.
And I'm like, well, why don't we tell 'em 24 hours?
He goes, 'cause you know, I just, it's a mind shift change.
I mean, I just, I didn't know.
I'm like, dude, service, service, you know, you want it in 24 hours?
We'll, we'll deliver it.
And it's just, you know, it's just a, and he, he literally was like, you just need
to not ever talk again in these meetings.
And I was like, okay.
Fair enough.
You know, it is what it is.
Victoria: By the way, I think Mike might have told me that, like
Jimmy Jett: the
Victoria: first times we, we talked about it when he started
at ibc, it's like, we're just not letting Jimmy talk right now.
Jimmy Jett: That's right, that's right.
I mean, I, I come from the oil field, like service means 24 hour delivery.
Like let's get the truckloads rolling and,
Victoria: but you know, it's interesting.
That's an interesting angle because if you think about, um, innovation and
transformation and inflection points.
Amazon, we talked about Amazon this morning.
It used to be.
That you had to go to the store to get an item, or if you placed an
order, it would show up in two weeks and cost you 20 bucks of shipping.
And now stuff shows up at my door in four hours for free, allegedly.
Right.
Um, I guess my question is.
Why not ship HI and I in 24 hours?
Jimmy Jett: Well, it is.
I mean, they, to be fair, they were like, wow, that's impressive.
But I mean, it's, that's a great point.
I mean, I, I don't wanna lose.
The enthusiasm and the service level that I've learned in the energy space, I wanna
take that across all these markets, right?
Um, whether they like it or not, I mean, I think that's something
that, you know, you talk about culture, we have a service culture.
Like when you're in the oil and gas space, it is a 24 hour, you know, a day,
answer the phone, get it done, never stop.
I love that culture.
And, and we, we want to take that into other platforms.
Victoria: Yeah.
Um, how do your customers respond?
So, you know, you already started talking about this, but, but you're coming in.
Uh, you know, I think the chemical industry, its customers, there's
a lot of value to reliability, relationships, legacy relationships.
Like we even heard earlier today when we talked about, um, in supply chain,
about the, um, you know, adaptability and stuff, but a lot of it is still with.
Partners.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: And now you're coming in and challenging maybe what
people consider partnerships.
Um, longstanding relationships, longstanding product formulations.
Sure.
Um, in the industry, what are you seeing from a customer response perspective?
Jimmy Jett: Um, yeah, that's, that's a great question.
I mean, it's, it's, it's different, right?
You talk about oil and gas we had direct to, to the customer relationships, right?
And this is a new technology platform.
It's a non iion surfactant platform that plays well with everybody.
We're like the Switzerland of surfactants, right?
So we're, we kind of have that going for.
So, you know, kind of our strategy was we had to kind of pivot from our traditional.
You know, channel to market of, of direct, direct sales to, we recognize
that this is a new technology.
We have to find partners that are experts in this space, right?
And so it's, we were very selective.
Um, there's several of our partners sitting in this room that were just,
you know, we, we went out and find, found the partners that have the, the
technical expertise, the bench and the, the relationships in those new markets.
And that's how, that's kind of how we're, we're, we're.
We've kind of evolved our business.
We're now working with partners to evolve the technology and we, what's
funny is, you know, we have way more scientists than we do salespeople, which
is not the traditional oil field model.
We are.
We're investing heavily on the technical side, continuing to develop
and unwrap this technology and letting our partners guide that, right?
I mean, so there's so many good people out here.
I mean, we're, we're competing.
With chemical cities in China, right?
And so if you're sitting there going, man, we can do it ourselves.
You've lost your mind.
I mean, just take a trip, land in Beijing, say, I wanna go
to the, the surfactant city.
And they'll take you.
And it's bigger than any plant that the US has.
And so if we don't develop these strategic relationships and these partnerships,
it's gonna be a very challenging market for, and it's, it's not like they're gonna
be like, Hey, let's let up this year.
Right?
I mean, we talked to our STEM friends, where are they?
They're advocating STEM in the us.
I can't remember what the statistic is.
What is it?
One US STEM grad to 20 Chinese STEM grads.
Or is it even worse than that?
It's worse than that.
Do you know the number?
I don't know, but it's about 2, 3, 4 times.
God, I mean, that's terrifying and we have to recognize that.
Right?
And so you better be partnering up and you better figure out how to
unlock technology that drives value.
'cause it's gonna be difficult to win on price.
Victoria: Um, and you just recently came back from Perth
where you started up a partnership.
That's right.
Right?
Yep.
So we talked about that, um, just last week.
Yeah.
Jimmy Jett: Yeah.
So our, our technology has a very nice niche in the mining space for
froth, flotation and, and collectors.
And, um, and rather than going try to reinvent the wheel, we,
we found a phenomenal partner.
Companies called ICD.
They, they, they work in the super alloy space and they
have a great facility in Perth.
And so we're able to go down and put our, our manufacturing footprint in Perth to
support the mining business down there.
Again, kind of goes back to partnerships.
How do you, you know, speed the market for us to go buy a facility,
learn how to do business in Australia would've been a nightmare.
And so we were able to leverage that, their strength.
Victoria: So, so does this, you know, I'm coming back to one of the
questions in the comments that came in, uh, when we did our, our Slido.
Around fundraising.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, you said, yeah, we could talk about that.
So, so does uh, partnering alleviate the need for fundraising?
Is this continual fundraising?
I mean, I've talked, there's a few startups in the house here.
Yeah.
And you know, let's be honest, we talked already, cash is king, money is important,
getting the investment is critical.
How do you navigate financial fundraising needs and bringing that into
Jimmy Jett: to play?
Yeah.
No, and and, and what's interesting is if I could go back and do it all over again,
I would've never called the company.
Integrity, biochem.
I like the integrity part.
The biochem part was confusing for the marketplace because every
meeting would start with, so what round of funding are you in?
Tell us about your fermenters.
Can you make 10 gallons for a sample?
I mean, it was ridiculous.
I mean, it was like we had to explain that no, we, we make
millions of gallons a month.
You know, we shipped full truckload.
You want a rail car, we can do it in, you know, and I'd have to look to the
business unit, so I wouldn't screw up, but, you know, you know, so, so it was.
It actually hurt us.
Um, it, you know, 'cause 'cause people had a misconception, thought we were
fermenting and, and, and that we were, you know, startup, the whole sustainable bio
kind of puts you in a bucket of startup.
Right.
Um, and so that has been challenging, has kind of overcome that stigmatism.
I think we've done it well, but it was a, it was a challenge at first for sure.
And the fundraising piece, you're absolutely right.
I mean, partnerships help because you're able to get into markets
that would traditionally be very, very expensive and time consuming.
And they're there.
These partners are experts.
And so, you know, there's a big technology exchange and you gotta
trust, but it's worked out well for us.
Victoria: Yeah.
Love it.
Um, so you know, we've talked before about growing pains.
Jimmy, you and I, um, what's been harder than you expected
about scaling this business?
Jimmy Jett: Um, the regulatory piece, I know that's, um, the, the US
specifically, which is interesting.
Right.
Um, we're on the DSL in Canada.
We're re certified in Europe.
You know, we just got on the Tosca inventory in the
US and it took three years.
My pilot friends have been very patient.
They're one of our partners in HI and I, and it's still not done perfectly.
So there's a big regulatory issue that the US has to address and it's challenging.
Um, and so that has been.
In some markets it's been very challenging.
Other markets, it's been great.
Believe it or not, personal care, we have eight inky names.
You can take our product slather up, put as much sunscreen with our juice
in it, on you all you want, but do not spray it on a hard surface cleaner, you
know, put it in a hard surface cleaner.
So we are.
We've America's lost their minds.
And when we started this three years ago, they were like 90 days slam junk.
This is, you know, this is America.
You got this.
We didn't realize that Trump had gutted the EPA.
There's nobody left at the EPA.
So it was a very interesting learning curve and it, it kicked me in the teeth.
I was, I was wrong.
A lot.
Yeah.
Victoria: But, but you come back from it.
Jimmy Jett: Yes.
We've, we, we're still in it, but we've, we've bounced back pretty well.
Yeah.
Victoria: Um, so.
You know, I think about leadership.
We talked about leadership edge.
I mean this aspect of how, how, two kind of couple of things come to mind.
Number one is resilience.
So this whole aspect of it taking three years instead of three
months to get a product approved.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: I love the fact that we don't wanna spray it on our countertops,
but go ahead and put it on your body.
Yeah.
It's always an interesting thing, free
Jimmy Jett: and clear.
I mean, literally.
Yeah.
Chapstick, whatever.
How
Victoria: do you maintain the resilience?
How do you maintain, how do you know how, what's your resilience strategy
like, how do you stay resilient in the face of all this resistance?
Right.
So you guys clearly have big goals, a lot of energy.
Mm-hmm.
Um, people that are trying to make this happen, and there's
hurdles and barriers that.
Are there?
Yeah.
How do you, how do you make that happen?
What, what's your strategy?
Jimmy Jett: I think our team and the cultures just, you know, we,
we love the challenge of it, right?
And, and being able to pivot is critical.
We talked about, you know, how quickly can you pivot and, and, and, and move quickly
into these new markets we just recognized.
Okay.
Hi, and I is gonna be in the penalty box.
Let's go all in on mining.
And it's just redirecting resources, right?
And, and moving, you know, as quickly as you can through that.
And so it's, it's been a, it's been a challenge, but
it's, it's been a lot of fun.
I mean, we're, we're learning a ton.
And, and again, you hire the people that have the expertise and it
starts streamlining those decisions.
You know, when it was, when it was a bunch of energy, people sitting
in a room trying to figure it out.
We had more challenges than we do today.
We, we, we have a really good regulatory group.
We brought in, you know, experts in these other markets and so.
You know, we're letting them guide the business.
I mean, we're still setting standards and, and we have, you know, the
goals and objectives are the same, but, you know, you're, you're
having to trust new teammates.
Victoria: where do you see, you know, where do you see Integrity Biochem?
Where do you see the industry in the next five years?
We talk about what is 2030, um, and you're coming in both from a.
Innovation transformation.
Yeah.
Sustainability perspective.
Yeah.
But you know, where, what's your role in the industry in five years?
Jimmy Jett: That's a, I mean, man, that's a crystal ball question.
I, I think it's, it's an excellent question.
There's gonna be a lot of.
A, a lot of things that determine where, where the chemical industry
heads, I mean, I think elections are gonna play a big part of it.
I mean, right now we don't talk about, I mean, we're super green,
like we're ridiculously sustainable.
I never lead with that in a sales meeting.
It's all about price and performance.
And, and, and I, I love the panel that came up here.
I love the future and I think it'd be amazing if everybody started
caring, but the reality is.
Procurement managers, their KPIs are around profitability.
Right?
And, and, and, and so the, the, the elections shift the way Americans
think about sustainability, right?
And right now, nobody cares.
I mean, I wish we cared.
I really wish we cared.
But, um, so we sell on price and performance Now.
Yeah, Americans are bipolar, right?
So the odds are just looking at history and I'm not getting political.
Do not shoot the messenger.
I'm just telling you my feeling.
Whether you worship at the altar of Fox News or M-S-N-B-C, the reality is
we are going to probably shift 'cause we do every four to eight years into
a whole new political realm, right?
Trump's president now.
Rachel Maddow might be president next, right?
I mean, Americans are, we're nuts.
I mean, we're, what is gonna happen?
We don't know.
So in the next five years, if we go the route of Rachel Maddow, the
chemical industry, sustainability is gonna matter, right?
If we go the route of something else, I mean, we as leaders,
we have to adapt, right?
There's, the problem with the US and the way we're perceived
in the world is we're unstable.
It's not that we're right or left.
It's that we're bipolar, we're, we don't know what we are, we're
every four years we're a different.
So as leaders, you know, I would love to answer.
I give you some awesome, you know, I'm not businessy like the rest of y'all.
I, I'm feeling so insecure up here 'cause I don't have all the cool buzzwords.
But I will tell you what's gonna happen is gonna be determined on
where the political future Yeah.
You know, lies.
And we just as leaders.
We, we have to adapt.
It doesn't matter.
We don't, we can complain about it for 24 hours after the election, which
side you're on, it doesn't matter.
Then you wake up and you either put the big sustainability flag out in
front of your house or you put the, you know, the ballistic missile sign up.
I don't care.
I mean, it doesn't matter.
We just wanna make money for our shareholders and at the end of the day,
America's based on capitalism and I love that, but it's, it's gonna be different.
Sorry, I didn't even answer the question.
I just Yeah,
Victoria: I think you did.
I blacked out.
I think you did.
Sorry.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Jimmy Jett: yeah.
Victoria: So, so
you know, I think one of the challenges and or challenges and opportunities as you
start up is that you can have no playbook and you build up your own playbook
and what's the rule book, et cetera.
Do you have a business or a leader that you have tried to emulate
or that you've looked to, to say, oh, that's how that goes.
We're gonna try to do the same thing for your business.
Yeah.
Jimmy Jett: You know, I'm fortunate.
I mean, I, I think Todd said it.
You, you, you've worked in this industry long enough.
You've seen a lot of great leaders, right?
Um, there's one sitting right there, doc Landis, who's a mentor of mine
and, and, and, you know, provided epic guidance, but I think you take pieces
from everybody you've worked with.
Um, I think everybody in the room would agree.
I mean, you take kind of pieces good and bad from everybody you've worked with.
Um, you know, I, I have a military background, so I'm a, I'm a
little bit harsher than most.
You know, I, Laura's one of our founders, she came on board and was like, Hey
Jimmy, we should really do town halls and actually ask people what they think.
And I'm like, Hey Laura, that's a great idea.
I mean, it's, you know, you, you have to like, you have
to take input from everybody.
I mean, if it was me, I mean, everybody, Hey everybody, shut up.
Go fill the trucks and let's roll.
You know, but I can't, you know, I'm trying to evolve as a
leader, you know, stop, ask the right questions, be sensitive.
All that stuff I'm not good at.
But you surround yourself with people that are good at that,
and you learn from them, right?
And so.
I think it's just an evolution and I, I can't point to one person.
Yeah.
But it's, I think it's, it's not, and it's not just leaders, right?
I think it's colleagues.
I mean, I have, there's plant workers at our plant that I learned stuff from.
I'm like, man, you really did that well, like the way you just led that, that
small batch group, like, that's cool.
So it's just, it's just, you kind of pick it up as you go.
Victoria: Awesome.
Jimmy Jett: Yeah.
I