1 00:00:00,140 --> 00:00:02,500 In today's episode of the Leica Podcast 2 00:00:03,340 --> 00:00:05,020 Everyone enjoys people watching. 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:05,260 Yeah. 4 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,460 Everyone loves being a little bit nosy. 5 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,280 Street photography is just a visual demonstration of people watching. 6 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,300 I still pinch myself now that I'm able to make money doing it. 7 00:00:14,340 --> 00:00:17,820 I think it's crazy that I just kind of just waffle to a camera, and 8 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,880 people watch it. I've realized the more normal stuff I share- 9 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:22,220 Yeah 10 00:00:22,420 --> 00:00:26,400 ... the more people can go, "Oh, yeah, I feel like that, too," or, "Oh, yeah, I saw 11 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,740 something similar to that." Because I'm not taking photography too 12 00:00:29,780 --> 00:00:33,180 seriously, that my photographs, in some way, are 13 00:00:33,220 --> 00:00:36,490 fun. But this was just, yeah, just the hands. They really caught my attention. 14 00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:39,640 And someone has drawn, I don't know if you can see, a little smiley face in the 15 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:39,900 middle- 16 00:00:40,260 --> 00:00:40,330 Oh, yeah 17 00:00:40,340 --> 00:00:42,800 ... where there's tomatoes or something in the picture. 18 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,840 Yeah. If your camera could talk, what would it say about you? 19 00:00:46,290 --> 00:00:47,460 "Can I have a rest, please?" 20 00:00:48,330 --> 00:00:48,410 It'd probably- 21 00:00:48,410 --> 00:00:49,100 Give me a break. 22 00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:50,560 Yeah. Be like, "Just put me down for a second." 23 00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:55,880 Hi, everyone, and welcome to "How I See": the Leica Podcast. 24 00:00:56,100 --> 00:00:59,620 I'm your host, Louise Goldstein, and it's a pleasure to be joined 25 00:00:59,820 --> 00:01:03,640 by Mike Chudley here at the Leica headquarters in Wetzlar, 26 00:01:03,700 --> 00:01:06,460 Germany. Welcome to the podcast, Mike. 27 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,460 It's a pleasure to have you here. Thank you for joining us. 28 00:01:09,500 --> 00:01:12,899 Thank you so much for the invite. This is very special. Yeah. This is exciting. 29 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,820 Firstly, I just wanted to ask you to please introduce yourself. 30 00:01:18,050 --> 00:01:21,180 Let us know a little bit about who you are and what you do. 31 00:01:21,260 --> 00:01:24,830 So, I'm Mike. I make a lot of YouTube videos all about 32 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,280 photography and camera gear, more specifically street photography. 33 00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:28,480 Mm-hmm. 34 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,340 I shoot a lot in London, although I do get to travel a little bit as well, so I'm 35 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,200 very fortunate for that. I've been shooting on Leica for about four 36 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:36,920 years. 37 00:01:37,220 --> 00:01:37,570 Mm. 38 00:01:38,140 --> 00:01:39,400 Started in the skateboard world. 39 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:43,000 Obsessed with photography, really. I guess that sums it up. 40 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:44,380 Good place to be. 41 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:44,490 Mm. 42 00:01:45,740 --> 00:01:45,750 I 43 00:01:46,900 --> 00:01:50,780 like to ask this question because I always find it really interesting, but where 44 00:01:50,820 --> 00:01:52,540 did photography start for you? 45 00:01:53,340 --> 00:01:55,000 Yeah, skateboarding and BMX. 46 00:01:55,130 --> 00:01:55,130 Mm. 47 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,390 So, when I was 12, my mom bought me my first camera- 48 00:01:58,800 --> 00:01:58,920 Yeah 49 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,140 ... for Christmas, and then I immediately ran into the garage 50 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,520 to film myself doing a kickflip or something like that. 51 00:02:06,060 --> 00:02:06,220 And 52 00:02:07,060 --> 00:02:09,110 for me, filming and 53 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:11,940 taking photographs at the skate park- 54 00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:12,650 Mm 55 00:02:12,650 --> 00:02:15,640 ... it was always about the skateboarding and the BMXing. 56 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,500 And then as I grew up a little bit, not that anyone should grow up 57 00:02:19,620 --> 00:02:20,109 completely- 58 00:02:20,950 --> 00:02:22,940 ... I fell more in love with the photography side of it. 59 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:23,200 Mm. 60 00:02:23,540 --> 00:02:26,359 And then I don't really skate or ride BMX much anymore. 61 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,380 But I remember watching each month as a 62 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,970 "Thrasher" magazine cover would come out and reading "Sidewalk 63 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:35,940 Magazine". It's like a UK skate magazine. 64 00:02:35,980 --> 00:02:36,000 Mm. 65 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:40,380 And just slowly, over time, becoming obsessed with what the front cover would be- 66 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:41,080 Yeah 67 00:02:41,090 --> 00:02:44,850 ... and the fisheye lenses and diving into the skate culture, skate 68 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:45,799 photography culture. 69 00:02:45,820 --> 00:02:46,240 Mm. 70 00:02:46,980 --> 00:02:49,790 So yeah. I have skateboarding to thank for a lot of things- 71 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:49,970 Yeah 72 00:02:49,970 --> 00:02:51,820 ... and photography is one of them. Yeah. 73 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,940 Amazing. What were some of your first photographs like? 74 00:02:58,300 --> 00:03:01,980 Probably very bad. I think all of my BMX and skate pictures were 75 00:03:02,060 --> 00:03:04,620 pretty bad. I don't think I got exceptional at it. 76 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:04,940 Mm-hmm. 77 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,960 And I actually want to pursue a little bit more of that now. 78 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:10,170 Yeah. 79 00:03:10,700 --> 00:03:14,000 Now I know what I know about photography, I think it'd be cool to go on a skate 80 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,660 trip again, to document that. 81 00:03:15,820 --> 00:03:16,120 Yeah. 82 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:16,290 But 83 00:03:17,340 --> 00:03:20,420 mostly the skate and BMX photos I took were just of me and my friends having a good 84 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:20,780 time. 85 00:03:20,790 --> 00:03:20,790 Yeah. 86 00:03:20,820 --> 00:03:24,590 They weren't serious. It was me just playing around- 87 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:25,140 Yeah 88 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,340 ... which I think is important in photography, anyway. 89 00:03:27,380 --> 00:03:28,760 I don't think we should take this too seriously. 90 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:29,400 Yeah. 91 00:03:30,220 --> 00:03:32,510 Because photography has always been fun for me- 92 00:03:32,820 --> 00:03:33,060 Yeah 93 00:03:33,070 --> 00:03:35,800 ... and the skateboarding/BMX world is incredibly fun. 94 00:03:35,860 --> 00:03:39,600 So, if I look at the photographs I was taking when I was 12, 95 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,840 13, 14, 15, I just know that they would be fun. 96 00:03:43,380 --> 00:03:43,520 Yeah. 97 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,160 I don't think they would be very good, but they're fun to look at. Yeah. 98 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:47,230 For me and my friends- 99 00:03:47,460 --> 00:03:47,470 Yeah 100 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:48,280 ... especially. 101 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,920 Yeah. I was going to say, actually, do you look back at them now 102 00:03:51,980 --> 00:03:55,380 occasionally and have fond memories about those times? 103 00:03:55,540 --> 00:03:59,280 Yeah, definitely. Everything that I learned going into 104 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:00,600 street photography and stuff- 105 00:04:00,660 --> 00:04:00,690 Mm-hmm 106 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,940 ... is just because of what I was doing skating. 107 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:04,210 Yeah. 108 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,500 So, it's just accidental practice, I think. 109 00:04:07,580 --> 00:04:11,170 I spent 10 years photographing... Well, maybe not that long. 110 00:04:11,220 --> 00:04:12,730 Maybe five or six years photographing- 111 00:04:12,770 --> 00:04:12,770 Mm 112 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,370 ... skateboarding and BMX specifically- 113 00:04:14,740 --> 00:04:14,850 Yeah 114 00:04:14,900 --> 00:04:18,161 ... that I feel like that was my proving ground. 115 00:04:18,231 --> 00:04:19,880 That was where I learned everything kind of thing. 116 00:04:19,940 --> 00:04:19,950 Yeah. 117 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:22,720 So then when I went into the normal world of photography- ... 118 00:04:22,740 --> 00:04:24,520 it was a little bit more straightforward, I think. 119 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:25,060 Yeah. 120 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,680 Sports photography, generally, I think is one of the hardest- 121 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:28,050 Yeah 122 00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:29,200 ... styles to master. 123 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,160 So thankfully, I just learned loads from doing it with skateboarding. 124 00:04:33,260 --> 00:04:36,050 Yeah. Absolutely. And 125 00:04:36,140 --> 00:04:39,950 transitioning into street photography, was that something that 126 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,880 came naturally to you? 127 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:43,040 Yeah, I didn't even think about it. 128 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:43,120 Yeah. 129 00:04:43,180 --> 00:04:46,520 Because I feel like when you're out on the street skating and having a camera with 130 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,230 me, being anywhere, any public space with my skateboard and my 131 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:50,800 camera bag- 132 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:50,900 Mm 133 00:04:51,340 --> 00:04:54,670 ... then when I'd go outside without the skateboard and just my camera bag, it felt 134 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,720 totally normal to have my camera around all the time. 135 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:57,220 Yeah. 136 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,720 And that's something I love about street and documentary and travel 137 00:05:01,740 --> 00:05:04,260 photography, just everyday photography. 138 00:05:04,300 --> 00:05:07,440 You have to have a camera on you all the time, and I just got used to it because I 139 00:05:07,460 --> 00:05:09,120 was skating all the time as well. So, it just- 140 00:05:09,460 --> 00:05:09,469 Yeah 141 00:05:09,469 --> 00:05:13,219 ... naturally was an easy transition for me to start taking street photos as well. 142 00:05:13,420 --> 00:05:17,380 Yeah. Did you find that your sidekick became your camera 143 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,720 rather than your skateboard after a certain amount of time? 144 00:05:19,820 --> 00:05:20,790 Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I 145 00:05:21,700 --> 00:05:23,720 still spot skate spots when I'm out. 146 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,740 There's a few stair sets knocking around here and a couple of ledges. 147 00:05:27,940 --> 00:05:30,550 But now those spider senses- 148 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:30,710 Yeah 149 00:05:30,710 --> 00:05:34,620 ... as you would say, transition into spotting photograph opportunities. 150 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:34,960 Yeah. 151 00:05:35,020 --> 00:05:37,840 So, when you're out on the street looking for stuff, it used to be looking for 152 00:05:37,900 --> 00:05:40,120 skate spots, but now it's looking for moments, right? 153 00:05:40,420 --> 00:05:40,700 Yeah. 154 00:05:40,710 --> 00:05:42,180 So, it's a similar sort of skill set, really. 155 00:05:42,260 --> 00:05:43,980 Yeah. Love that. 156 00:05:45,580 --> 00:05:48,880 Your work crosses from behind the camera 157 00:05:49,980 --> 00:05:53,900 as a photographer to in front of the camera through YouTube. 158 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,200 When did you have the idea to start making videos and 159 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,660 start uploading them to YouTube? 160 00:06:01,060 --> 00:06:04,760 So, it was around COVID when I first started making photography 161 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:05,880 videos on YouTube. 162 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:06,700 Yeah. 163 00:06:06,980 --> 00:06:10,920 But I feel like since I first filmed that kickflip that I did in the 164 00:06:10,980 --> 00:06:12,520 garage when I was 13 or whatever, 165 00:06:13,420 --> 00:06:15,180 that probably was on YouTube at some point. 166 00:06:15,230 --> 00:06:15,230 Yeah. 167 00:06:16,140 --> 00:06:18,030 A hundred channels over the years from- 168 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:18,220 Yeah 169 00:06:18,300 --> 00:06:21,520 ... Call of Duty videos to me and my friends at the skate park, 170 00:06:21,580 --> 00:06:25,140 to me editing, I don't know, a Photoshop 171 00:06:25,180 --> 00:06:26,030 tutorial or something. 172 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:26,360 Yeah. 173 00:06:26,370 --> 00:06:30,120 I think I've tried at most YouTube videos- ... as a teenager growing up. 174 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,700 But then I think COVID and the photography stuff, I probably started taking a 175 00:06:34,740 --> 00:06:35,539 little bit more seriously. 176 00:06:36,540 --> 00:06:40,370 So I feel like as much as I've been into photography over the 177 00:06:40,420 --> 00:06:44,220 years, I've been understanding YouTube alongside as 178 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:44,500 well. 179 00:06:44,620 --> 00:06:44,630 Mm. 180 00:06:44,660 --> 00:06:47,800 So video and photo is a big part of my world. 181 00:06:47,860 --> 00:06:51,580 Even though I share my photography, the means of me 182 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,310 sharing it is actually via video- 183 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:53,660 Yeah 184 00:06:53,669 --> 00:06:54,470 ... via YouTube. So, 185 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,220 yeah. I'm thankful that I've over the years learned how to make a video or two as 186 00:06:59,280 --> 00:06:59,460 well. 187 00:06:59,780 --> 00:07:03,340 Yeah. And did that early, 188 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,620 I guess, knowledge of filmmaking, where did that 189 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,280 come from? Was that something that also then naturally 190 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,630 transitioned from making skateboard videos? 191 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,180 Yeah, I think in the skate world, photography and videos 192 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:22,440 are a huge part of the culture. 193 00:07:22,620 --> 00:07:22,860 Yeah. 194 00:07:23,020 --> 00:07:24,040 So even 195 00:07:25,180 --> 00:07:28,780 J*****s was- ... super important and 196 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,380 impactful for me growing up. I thought it was the coolest thing. 197 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,060 So then when I would go to the skate park with my friends, we were probably no 198 00:07:36,100 --> 00:07:37,740 doubt inspired by Bam- 199 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:38,050 Yeah 200 00:07:38,050 --> 00:07:41,780 ... and the J*****s crew. So my videos were nowhere near like that. 201 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:41,990 But- 202 00:07:43,130 --> 00:07:46,300 ... the idea of filming everything was just kind of normal. 203 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:46,480 Yeah. 204 00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:49,640 Which again, I'm thankful for because now when I make YouTube videos, I don't 205 00:07:49,660 --> 00:07:50,880 really overthink it too much- 206 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:51,200 Yeah 207 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:52,580 ... because I'm used to being on camera. 208 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:52,860 So, 209 00:07:54,460 --> 00:07:55,480 yeah. I think the 210 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,460 J*****s being an inspiration, the skateboard culture being an inspiration 211 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,960 meant that uploading YouTube videos and being on this side of the camera wasn't- 212 00:08:03,980 --> 00:08:04,240 Yeah. 213 00:08:04,300 --> 00:08:07,870 I didn't think about it too much. It's not super natural, but 214 00:08:07,940 --> 00:08:11,540 I'm definitely more comfortable than, I'd say, if I never did the 215 00:08:11,580 --> 00:08:12,260 skateboard stuff. 216 00:08:12,460 --> 00:08:13,700 Yeah. For sure. 217 00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:18,680 I'm really interested as well in the 218 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:19,580 idea 219 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,349 of starting to create videos about cameras, 220 00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:28,120 about photography, and that transitioning into a 221 00:08:28,180 --> 00:08:31,900 career. Did you ever think that that was possible, or 222 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,280 was it something you're aware of? 223 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,740 I think the photo YouTube stuff started just because I was watching 224 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,740 a lot of it. So as I was learning photography a little bit more seriously, I was 225 00:08:43,780 --> 00:08:45,560 just watching loads of YouTube stuff. 226 00:08:45,570 --> 00:08:45,570 Mm. 227 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,630 So I definitely didn't upload my first video thinking, "Oh, I'm going to make some 228 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,280 money out of this." I just enjoyed making videos. 229 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:51,860 Yeah. 230 00:08:51,940 --> 00:08:54,759 And I think that's probably the most important bit. 231 00:08:54,820 --> 00:08:57,760 I think if you start making YouTube videos thinking that you're just going to make 232 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:58,340 loads of money, 233 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,420 you will probably get very tired of it very quickly. 234 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:01,900 Yeah. 235 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,100 I still pinch myself now that I'm able to make money doing it. 236 00:09:06,140 --> 00:09:09,610 I think it's crazy that I just kind of just waffle to a camera and- 237 00:09:10,250 --> 00:09:10,960 ... people watch it. 238 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,880 But now as the years have gone on, I do have to consider 239 00:09:15,940 --> 00:09:17,400 things a little bit more seriously. 240 00:09:18,270 --> 00:09:18,270 Yeah. 241 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:20,560 But again, I try not to take it too seriously. 242 00:09:20,740 --> 00:09:20,880 Yeah. 243 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,180 I try to just be me, and whatever I'm interested in at the time, I will make a 244 00:09:24,220 --> 00:09:24,760 video about it. 245 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:25,260 Yeah. 246 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,120 But talking about camera gears, people watch it. 247 00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:29,390 Yeah. 248 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,420 If anyone's buying a new camera, they want to watch a video about it, or if they've 249 00:09:32,460 --> 00:09:34,180 just bought a new camera, they want to watch a video about it. 250 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,140 So I think when I first uploaded my first camera review, it 251 00:09:39,180 --> 00:09:42,340 would've been like surprised. "Oh, this actually gets views." 252 00:09:42,430 --> 00:09:42,430 Yeah. 253 00:09:42,580 --> 00:09:44,800 I didn't maybe know what I was doing, but 254 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,080 over the years, you start understanding what works, what doesn't work. 255 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:48,460 Yeah. 256 00:09:48,530 --> 00:09:50,400 And again, I try not to take it too seriously, so. 257 00:09:50,660 --> 00:09:50,900 Yeah. 258 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,240 I definitely didn't think I'd be making money from it when I first started. No way. 259 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:54,759 Yeah. 260 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:00,960 Your videos feature tech heavily, of course, 261 00:10:01,820 --> 00:10:05,700 but you also focus on what inspires you, your 262 00:10:05,740 --> 00:10:07,640 approach and experience. 263 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,440 Do you find this way of sharing comes naturally to 264 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,370 you, so the full circle rather than just 265 00:10:15,420 --> 00:10:17,520 one side of things? 266 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:22,400 I think I would definitely run out of things to say if it was just gear 267 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:22,880 related. 268 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:23,300 Yeah. 269 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,780 Because reading a spec sheet isn't that exciting. 270 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,360 Now, there is some novelty in new camera gear coming out, and it is fun to talk 271 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,900 about, and I'm as much of a nerd as the next person. 272 00:10:34,859 --> 00:10:38,270 Especially, we've been here at the Leica HQ and looking- ... 273 00:10:38,270 --> 00:10:42,220 at all the camera gear and the museum and the archive, it's just fascinating stuff. 274 00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:46,760 But I think the thing that is most important is the process, and it's 275 00:10:46,820 --> 00:10:49,940 almost cliché to say it's the journey, not the destination. 276 00:10:50,170 --> 00:10:53,900 It's a horrible thing to just say that, but it really 277 00:10:53,980 --> 00:10:54,300 is. 278 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:54,410 Mm. 279 00:10:54,410 --> 00:10:55,010 And 280 00:10:56,020 --> 00:10:58,980 I said this earlier, photography is supposed to be fun. 281 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,780 And no one picks up a camera for the first time 282 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,820 in a serious manner. No one gets into photography because it's a business 283 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:07,560 decision. 284 00:11:07,620 --> 00:11:07,700 Yeah. 285 00:11:07,860 --> 00:11:11,540 People get into something like this to express themselves, to have fun, to 286 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,040 just play around, and that's my biggest thought process 287 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,000 when I'm shooting. I won't do anything photography related if I'm 288 00:11:20,020 --> 00:11:20,700 not going to enjoy it. 289 00:11:20,860 --> 00:11:21,080 Yeah. 290 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:23,290 So I'm always thinking about the process. 291 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:23,780 Yeah. 292 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,990 Because I'm always thinking about the process and trying to enjoy myself, I feel 293 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,920 like I can share that as well, and other people can relate in some 294 00:11:30,940 --> 00:11:31,120 way. 295 00:11:31,300 --> 00:11:31,310 Yeah. 296 00:11:31,380 --> 00:11:34,800 So the thoughts behind why you're taking pictures 297 00:11:35,620 --> 00:11:37,500 is more important than the picture- 298 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:37,980 Yeah 299 00:11:38,060 --> 00:11:41,960 ... I think. It's just the picture is the visual thing that explains what 300 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:42,480 you were doing. 301 00:11:42,510 --> 00:11:42,510 Yeah. 302 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,420 It's just the end result. Without the end result, it wouldn't make sense, but 303 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,040 I think photography has been a wonderful outlet of just internal 304 00:11:50,460 --> 00:11:52,960 thoughts and things I enjoy in the world. 305 00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:52,970 Mm. 306 00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:55,340 And then photography becomes the thing to share it. 307 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:55,640 Yeah. 308 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:59,460 Like skateboarding or BMX, if something happens at the skate park or down a 309 00:11:59,540 --> 00:12:00,140 stair set, or 310 00:12:01,060 --> 00:12:04,340 if something truly amazing happens, there's probably only six or seven people there 311 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:06,240 that see it. But once it- 312 00:12:06,250 --> 00:12:06,250 Yeah 313 00:12:06,250 --> 00:12:08,340 ... becomes a photograph, you can share it with the world. 314 00:12:08,900 --> 00:12:12,160 So the photograph is amazing because it reaches more people. 315 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:12,840 Yeah. 316 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,100 But you only took the photograph because the trick was the thing was good, the 317 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:16,960 moment was interesting- 318 00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:17,030 Yeah 319 00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:20,754 ... whatever that moment is. So, um I'm just forever chasing 320 00:12:20,804 --> 00:12:22,634 those moments, the enjoyment of it- 321 00:12:22,924 --> 00:12:22,964 Yeah 322 00:12:22,974 --> 00:12:24,314 ... which again, is the process. 323 00:12:24,704 --> 00:12:27,724 Yeah. I think it's great that you talk openly and 324 00:12:27,784 --> 00:12:30,984 candidly about your journey with photography- 325 00:12:31,304 --> 00:12:31,314 Yeah 326 00:12:31,314 --> 00:12:32,574 ... your experiences. 327 00:12:33,824 --> 00:12:36,063 Do you find that that resonates with people? 328 00:12:37,364 --> 00:12:41,124 I think I forget this as well sometimes, that people can 329 00:12:41,164 --> 00:12:44,564 relate to individuals and their experiences 330 00:12:44,924 --> 00:12:48,714 without those experiences and stories being super dramatic, and 331 00:12:49,704 --> 00:12:51,784 they don't have to be some one in a million thing. 332 00:12:52,364 --> 00:12:55,824 Like, "I just climbed Mount Everest and took this photograph of this wild animal." 333 00:12:56,764 --> 00:13:00,564 Yeah, that stuff's amazing, but that's not everybody day to day. 334 00:13:00,604 --> 00:13:00,704 Yeah. 335 00:13:00,784 --> 00:13:01,104 I think 336 00:13:02,044 --> 00:13:04,404 I've realized the more normal stuff I share- 337 00:13:04,604 --> 00:13:04,764 Yeah 338 00:13:04,944 --> 00:13:08,764 ... the more people can go, "Oh, yeah, I feel like that too," or, "Oh, yeah, I 339 00:13:08,804 --> 00:13:11,124 saw something similar to that." And I feel like 340 00:13:11,944 --> 00:13:14,544 toning things down a bit, on the internet especially, 341 00:13:15,644 --> 00:13:19,044 works. People don't care for the most 342 00:13:19,144 --> 00:13:22,784 fast-paced, dramatic, clickbait-type behavior. 343 00:13:22,844 --> 00:13:22,854 Yeah. 344 00:13:23,544 --> 00:13:26,524 That works in some senses, for sure, but I think the more 345 00:13:27,544 --> 00:13:29,404 normal I've been online- 346 00:13:29,544 --> 00:13:29,684 Yeah 347 00:13:29,784 --> 00:13:33,544 ... it seems to be working. So clearly, people just want to 348 00:13:33,584 --> 00:13:35,584 relate to other normal people. 349 00:13:35,644 --> 00:13:35,744 Yeah. 350 00:13:37,044 --> 00:13:40,834 Yeah. I wouldn't do this. I wouldn't try and make the most 351 00:13:40,844 --> 00:13:44,244 dramatic, exciting YouTube video every week, because you just get burnt out by it. 352 00:13:44,284 --> 00:13:44,644 Yeah. 353 00:13:44,744 --> 00:13:47,104 And photography for me is not that anyway. 354 00:13:47,144 --> 00:13:49,264 It's just walking around in London. 355 00:13:49,274 --> 00:13:49,274 Yeah. 356 00:13:49,304 --> 00:13:51,104 So, I just want to keep it like that, really. 357 00:13:51,404 --> 00:13:53,604 Yeah. And do you find the 358 00:13:54,764 --> 00:13:55,884 most ordinary 359 00:13:56,744 --> 00:14:00,714 setup and situation, like street photography, very 360 00:14:01,084 --> 00:14:02,584 simple in its concept- 361 00:14:02,614 --> 00:14:02,634 Yeah 362 00:14:02,664 --> 00:14:05,824 ... is something that you 363 00:14:06,024 --> 00:14:09,744 enjoy and can take great photographs within that 364 00:14:09,784 --> 00:14:10,484 environment? 365 00:14:11,084 --> 00:14:14,984 I think it makes the really unique pictures more 366 00:14:15,024 --> 00:14:16,214 impressive and more- 367 00:14:16,364 --> 00:14:16,374 Yeah 368 00:14:16,374 --> 00:14:20,124 ... joyful. And it makes the everyday moments of 369 00:14:20,164 --> 00:14:22,924 whatever you're up to just a little bit more special. 370 00:14:22,984 --> 00:14:23,144 Yeah. 371 00:14:23,964 --> 00:14:27,584 So I was down in Wetzlar earlier, just exploring and wandering myself, 372 00:14:28,084 --> 00:14:30,703 and I was trying to work out this picture, as I was telling you over lunch. 373 00:14:31,233 --> 00:14:31,233 Yeah. 374 00:14:31,324 --> 00:14:34,394 And I was expecting a person to walk through. 375 00:14:34,404 --> 00:14:37,054 And the picture's not-- It's okay. It is what it is. 376 00:14:37,124 --> 00:14:41,114 I don't know yet until I see it. But a dog walked through instead, and that 377 00:14:41,144 --> 00:14:44,084 just made me smile. And I think the picture is better with the dog than it would've 378 00:14:44,124 --> 00:14:47,844 been with a person. And all I was doing was wandering 379 00:14:47,904 --> 00:14:50,684 around this town that I've never been before, and now I'm smiling. 380 00:14:50,964 --> 00:14:51,064 Yeah. 381 00:14:51,104 --> 00:14:55,004 And now I've just created this moment of, "That was fun." 382 00:14:55,404 --> 00:14:55,584 Yeah. 383 00:14:56,044 --> 00:14:59,404 And if I didn't have my camera with me, and if I wasn't doing that, I would've just 384 00:14:59,424 --> 00:15:00,984 been walking around cold. 385 00:15:01,364 --> 00:15:01,624 Yeah. 386 00:15:01,664 --> 00:15:02,544 I would've just been like 387 00:15:03,564 --> 00:15:05,224 everybody else that doesn't do photography. 388 00:15:05,284 --> 00:15:09,164 They just go somewhere to do something, or it's an endless to-do 389 00:15:09,204 --> 00:15:13,184 list of life. But photography means that I'm thinking a little bit 390 00:15:13,204 --> 00:15:15,324 differently or appreciating things a little bit more or- 391 00:15:15,564 --> 00:15:15,904 Yeah 392 00:15:15,924 --> 00:15:15,924 ... 393 00:15:16,884 --> 00:15:18,064 I forgot what your question was, but- 394 00:15:18,144 --> 00:15:19,884 No, that answered it. Don't worry. 395 00:15:20,964 --> 00:15:24,164 I think it kind of leads into my next question, 396 00:15:24,664 --> 00:15:28,544 which is: How has your approach to content creation changed over 397 00:15:28,564 --> 00:15:29,164 the years? 398 00:15:30,744 --> 00:15:34,524 I think I definitely used to think it had to be impressive, for sure. 399 00:15:34,564 --> 00:15:38,404 So I would've, during COVID and the few years after 400 00:15:38,444 --> 00:15:41,884 that, I was probably trying to make videos that I knew people were excited about. 401 00:15:41,984 --> 00:15:42,224 Yeah. 402 00:15:42,284 --> 00:15:45,974 So new camera is obviously, like any new camera, is something quite novelty and 403 00:15:46,024 --> 00:15:49,684 exciting in a way. But I think nowadays, like I kind of 404 00:15:49,704 --> 00:15:53,024 referred to, I think just normal everyday thoughts and feelings 405 00:15:53,744 --> 00:15:55,404 tend to be relatable as well. 406 00:15:56,564 --> 00:16:00,484 Obviously, a new lens will get more views than just me waffling to a 407 00:16:00,544 --> 00:16:02,344 camera about something. But 408 00:16:03,324 --> 00:16:06,054 you can't talk about new lenses every day, because there's not a new lens every 409 00:16:06,124 --> 00:16:06,264 day. 410 00:16:06,354 --> 00:16:06,354 Yeah. 411 00:16:06,384 --> 00:16:10,244 So, I've definitely got used to the more normal, mundane 412 00:16:10,324 --> 00:16:10,504 sort- 413 00:16:10,594 --> 00:16:10,594 Yeah 414 00:16:10,594 --> 00:16:14,344 ... of language. But I try and keep it light and entertaining, of 415 00:16:14,364 --> 00:16:14,664 course. 416 00:16:15,293 --> 00:16:15,293 Yeah. 417 00:16:15,324 --> 00:16:18,584 But I try not to overthink the content creation stuff. 418 00:16:19,024 --> 00:16:19,104 Yeah. 419 00:16:19,124 --> 00:16:22,324 Because it's just like with the photography, I want to enjoy it, and I'm not going 420 00:16:22,334 --> 00:16:23,474 to do anything that means- 421 00:16:23,764 --> 00:16:23,934 Yeah 422 00:16:23,944 --> 00:16:25,524 ... "Oh, this is a drag." I don't want to feel like that. 423 00:16:25,584 --> 00:16:29,424 I don't want to turn it into a horrible day job that people hate 424 00:16:29,484 --> 00:16:32,464 doing every day. I want it to be exciting, and I want to be pumped up about what 425 00:16:32,504 --> 00:16:35,044 I'm making. So, I try and make that a priority. 426 00:16:35,424 --> 00:16:38,144 Yeah. And give someone else a little bit of 427 00:16:38,264 --> 00:16:42,134 insight, but also a separation to maybe what they're 428 00:16:42,164 --> 00:16:43,044 doing day to day- 429 00:16:43,104 --> 00:16:43,194 Mm 430 00:16:43,244 --> 00:16:45,754 ... and can kind of have a moment to switch off and- 431 00:16:45,754 --> 00:16:45,754 Mm 432 00:16:45,804 --> 00:16:47,144 ... enjoy the process. 433 00:16:47,254 --> 00:16:51,244 I think the biggest compliment I get from people is when they say things like, 434 00:16:51,364 --> 00:16:55,164 "Oh, yeah, I had your video on in the background." Like, "I just put your 435 00:16:55,204 --> 00:16:56,624 video on while I was making dinner." 436 00:16:56,764 --> 00:16:57,144 Yeah. 437 00:16:57,704 --> 00:17:01,494 Because I love that it's a good enough vibe, whatever that vibe is, 438 00:17:01,824 --> 00:17:05,305 for you to just listen to me chatting about whatever I'm chatting about. 439 00:17:06,825 --> 00:17:09,504 And that means my viewers are not taking it too seriously as well. 440 00:17:09,514 --> 00:17:09,514 Yeah. 441 00:17:09,524 --> 00:17:11,305 And I like that. It's like we're hanging out. 442 00:17:11,325 --> 00:17:11,454 Yeah. 443 00:17:11,454 --> 00:17:15,014 It's like the best compliment is that people feel like they know me and we've never 444 00:17:15,085 --> 00:17:15,364 met. 445 00:17:15,374 --> 00:17:15,374 Yeah. 446 00:17:15,384 --> 00:17:17,864 And that's so cool that YouTube can do that. 447 00:17:17,984 --> 00:17:19,565 Yeah. Yeah, definitely. 448 00:17:20,704 --> 00:17:23,644 Your book, "Learning to See," pivoting slightly- 449 00:17:25,014 --> 00:17:28,924 ... references the idea that you're still learning, still figuring things out. 450 00:17:29,964 --> 00:17:33,784 Do you think that this still rings true today, and 451 00:17:33,844 --> 00:17:34,684 for you generally? 452 00:17:35,844 --> 00:17:39,544 Yeah, definitely. That was quite a strategic play for the title there- 453 00:17:39,584 --> 00:17:39,594 Yeah 454 00:17:39,594 --> 00:17:39,954 ... because it 455 00:17:40,864 --> 00:17:44,604 means there's no direct 456 00:17:44,724 --> 00:17:46,664 statement of anything that's established. 457 00:17:46,764 --> 00:17:47,384 It's all just 458 00:17:48,404 --> 00:17:48,933 here or there- 459 00:17:49,274 --> 00:17:49,274 Yeah 460 00:17:49,274 --> 00:17:53,074 ... which feels like photography every month is I'm learning 461 00:17:53,084 --> 00:17:55,284 something new or seeing something different. 462 00:17:55,304 --> 00:17:58,964 So when I titled the book "Learning to See," that's really how I felt. 463 00:17:59,664 --> 00:17:59,764 That 464 00:18:00,804 --> 00:18:01,714 book was the first 465 00:18:02,524 --> 00:18:04,214 three years of street photography- 466 00:18:04,614 --> 00:18:04,614 Mm 467 00:18:04,764 --> 00:18:06,824 ... in London, and a little bit of travel as well. 468 00:18:07,704 --> 00:18:11,004 So, none of the pictures are groundbreaking. 469 00:18:11,084 --> 00:18:14,264 I don't think they're the best things ever, but I thought it would be cool to go 470 00:18:14,304 --> 00:18:17,704 through the process of learning how to make a book, dive into that, understand the 471 00:18:17,724 --> 00:18:21,294 process a little bit more. And I'm even more appreciative of books now because I 472 00:18:21,644 --> 00:18:22,584 made one. 473 00:18:22,604 --> 00:18:23,164 Yeah. 474 00:18:23,204 --> 00:18:24,424 It's just a fun thing to do. 475 00:18:24,584 --> 00:18:24,594 Yeah. 476 00:18:24,594 --> 00:18:27,623 Back to enjoying it again. Making the book was super fun. 477 00:18:27,644 --> 00:18:27,794 But- 478 00:18:29,076 --> 00:18:29,756 I'm 479 00:18:30,596 --> 00:18:34,536 pleased I made that then, so then I have a milestone- 480 00:18:34,716 --> 00:18:34,876 Yeah 481 00:18:34,936 --> 00:18:36,776 ... of in 25 years. 482 00:18:37,116 --> 00:18:37,176 Yeah. 483 00:18:37,236 --> 00:18:39,136 If I didn't make it, maybe I'd never make one. 484 00:18:39,256 --> 00:18:41,636 So I'm pleased I did, and I got it out the way, and I got- 485 00:18:41,696 --> 00:18:41,706 Yeah 486 00:18:41,706 --> 00:18:42,216 ... stuck in with it. 487 00:18:43,176 --> 00:18:45,076 And then maybe every five years I can make one or- 488 00:18:45,295 --> 00:18:45,486 Yeah 489 00:18:45,916 --> 00:18:48,806 ... whatever. I've not really thought about it too much. But- ... 490 00:18:48,806 --> 00:18:51,806 learning to see is exactly what I was thinking- 491 00:18:52,056 --> 00:18:52,336 Yeah 492 00:18:52,346 --> 00:18:53,546 ... when I put the photos together. 493 00:18:54,876 --> 00:18:58,456 Looking at the idea of where that book came 494 00:18:58,576 --> 00:19:01,856 from, how did the book come about? 495 00:19:03,216 --> 00:19:03,916 Putting it together? 496 00:19:04,156 --> 00:19:07,836 Yeah. Where did that process come from, and where did the 497 00:19:07,916 --> 00:19:08,936 idea start? 498 00:19:09,636 --> 00:19:13,356 I think as I was getting more and more into street photography, I was 499 00:19:13,416 --> 00:19:13,676 also- 500 00:19:13,865 --> 00:19:13,865 Yeah 501 00:19:13,865 --> 00:19:16,156 ... getting more and more into collecting street photography books. 502 00:19:16,196 --> 00:19:16,306 And 503 00:19:17,356 --> 00:19:20,916 anyone that's gone down that rabbit hole- ... it is infinite, and it never ends. 504 00:19:20,996 --> 00:19:24,836 And I think at the same time as me being just totally 505 00:19:24,876 --> 00:19:26,166 obsessed with street photography- 506 00:19:26,216 --> 00:19:26,256 Mm 507 00:19:27,116 --> 00:19:30,786 ... I then was enjoying all these different books at the same time, and I just 508 00:19:30,816 --> 00:19:32,136 wanted to marry that- 509 00:19:32,216 --> 00:19:32,426 Yeah 510 00:19:32,426 --> 00:19:35,866 ... enjoyment of both mediums, actually going out and shooting and then enjoying 511 00:19:35,896 --> 00:19:37,426 them at home. And then 512 00:19:38,876 --> 00:19:42,836 I picked up a few zines. A few friends were making little bits and bobs. 513 00:19:42,846 --> 00:19:42,856 Yeah. 514 00:19:42,866 --> 00:19:45,996 And I think just being surrounded by other people that are interested in it, and I 515 00:19:46,056 --> 00:19:47,656 just thought, "I could give this a go." 516 00:19:49,036 --> 00:19:53,006 One of my friends in Southend in Essex explained how 517 00:19:53,056 --> 00:19:53,816 they made a book. 518 00:19:54,116 --> 00:19:54,306 Mm-hmm. 519 00:19:54,956 --> 00:19:57,576 Didn't seem that intimidating when he said it to me. 520 00:19:57,596 --> 00:19:59,956 He was like, "Oh, yeah, I made this." I was like, "That's cool. 521 00:20:00,576 --> 00:20:04,176 Maybe I should give it a go," not realizing that it would be a year later I'd be 522 00:20:04,216 --> 00:20:04,336 like- 523 00:20:04,356 --> 00:20:04,386 Yeah 524 00:20:04,386 --> 00:20:06,016 ... "Oh, wow, okay. This is really something." 525 00:20:07,056 --> 00:20:09,816 But yeah, like I said, I'm pleased I went through that process of figuring it out. 526 00:20:09,866 --> 00:20:11,876 And I enjoy books even more now- 527 00:20:12,156 --> 00:20:12,316 Yeah 528 00:20:12,336 --> 00:20:16,296 ... because I know how detailed and nuanced and complicated they are to make, but- 529 00:20:17,016 --> 00:20:17,196 Yeah 530 00:20:17,656 --> 00:20:21,416 ... I didn't think about it too much going into it, which I think is 531 00:20:21,456 --> 00:20:24,906 why I made it. And if I thought about it too much- 532 00:20:25,686 --> 00:20:27,596 ... I don't think I would've made it, if that makes sense. 533 00:20:27,656 --> 00:20:27,996 A bit of 534 00:20:28,956 --> 00:20:29,796 ignorance is bliss- 535 00:20:29,996 --> 00:20:30,076 Yeah 536 00:20:30,086 --> 00:20:33,936 ... I think is a huge part of most things that get created. 537 00:20:34,206 --> 00:20:35,776 Yeah. Not knowing too much is probably a good thing. 538 00:20:35,956 --> 00:20:37,376 Yeah. Absolutely. 539 00:20:38,416 --> 00:20:42,156 What was the experience like bringing your images from the 540 00:20:42,196 --> 00:20:44,716 digital world into printed form? 541 00:20:45,936 --> 00:20:48,206 That was one of the most fun parts- 542 00:20:48,366 --> 00:20:48,366 Mm 543 00:20:48,366 --> 00:20:49,956 ... because a lot of people 544 00:20:51,316 --> 00:20:53,796 say they don't like sequencing, it can get complicated- 545 00:20:53,826 --> 00:20:53,826 Yeah 546 00:20:53,826 --> 00:20:55,166 ... and it's a minefield. It really is. 547 00:20:55,676 --> 00:20:56,666 But when I printed 548 00:20:57,536 --> 00:21:01,356 200 of my favorite images and made them six by fours, 549 00:21:01,516 --> 00:21:02,736 like little postcard size- 550 00:21:03,256 --> 00:21:03,266 Yeah 551 00:21:03,266 --> 00:21:06,756 ... and I laid them out in my living room, and then I just naturally paired images 552 00:21:06,776 --> 00:21:10,576 together if the colors looked similar, or if the contrast was similar, or 553 00:21:10,616 --> 00:21:13,536 if subject matters were kind of closely related. 554 00:21:13,556 --> 00:21:17,396 And I remember just spending a few hours one Saturday afternoon with all my 555 00:21:17,405 --> 00:21:21,306 photographs all over, and I tried my best to put them all together in 556 00:21:21,336 --> 00:21:22,666 whatever form that looked like, 557 00:21:23,576 --> 00:21:27,516 and just getting overwhelmed by, "Oh, this is 558 00:21:27,536 --> 00:21:28,376 going to take forever." 559 00:21:28,536 --> 00:21:28,696 Yeah. 560 00:21:29,056 --> 00:21:31,576 And the photographs laid around for a few days. 561 00:21:32,256 --> 00:21:35,856 But that made me really enjoy the pictures even more. 562 00:21:35,916 --> 00:21:36,056 Yeah. 563 00:21:36,076 --> 00:21:36,525 And I think 564 00:21:37,376 --> 00:21:40,576 maybe I got a little bit too biased with the select 565 00:21:40,696 --> 00:21:44,476 because when I then showed other people what I'd selected, which was 566 00:21:44,536 --> 00:21:47,376 really, really useful, they then were like, "Nope, get rid of that. 567 00:21:47,476 --> 00:21:48,076 Nope, get rid of that." 568 00:21:48,146 --> 00:21:48,146 Yeah. 569 00:21:48,146 --> 00:21:50,856 "This doesn't work with that. This is too similar to that." And it's like it 570 00:21:50,876 --> 00:21:51,816 brought me out of it again. 571 00:21:52,056 --> 00:21:52,216 Yeah. 572 00:21:52,436 --> 00:21:56,196 So you go from really diving into your own work maybe a little bit too 573 00:21:56,236 --> 00:21:56,496 much- 574 00:21:56,856 --> 00:21:56,996 Mm 575 00:21:57,116 --> 00:22:00,936 ... and then you get another third perspective again, seeing them physically 576 00:22:01,076 --> 00:22:04,896 and not just on screens. So there's a whole mix of emotions doing it. 577 00:22:04,965 --> 00:22:04,965 Yeah. 578 00:22:04,976 --> 00:22:05,136 But 579 00:22:05,956 --> 00:22:08,836 seeing them physically, selecting my favorites, and then showing some friends, and 580 00:22:08,856 --> 00:22:10,236 then them selecting their favorites- 581 00:22:10,396 --> 00:22:10,536 Yeah 582 00:22:10,736 --> 00:22:11,876 ... was super interesting, yeah. 583 00:22:12,076 --> 00:22:15,095 Was it challenging to choose a final edit? 584 00:22:15,836 --> 00:22:19,516 You mentioned 200 photographs and then getting them down 585 00:22:19,556 --> 00:22:21,956 probably to 30, 40. 586 00:22:22,016 --> 00:22:23,936 I think it was between 40 and 50. 587 00:22:23,976 --> 00:22:25,496 Something like-- 40, 50. Yeah. 588 00:22:25,956 --> 00:22:29,216 Yeah. Well, it was fun. But 589 00:22:29,476 --> 00:22:32,676 I had to start asking myself questions that I didn't consider. 590 00:22:33,176 --> 00:22:33,436 And- 591 00:22:33,516 --> 00:22:33,696 Yeah 592 00:22:33,756 --> 00:22:33,756 ... 593 00:22:34,656 --> 00:22:38,476 one of the most interesting things was finding out why one of my 594 00:22:38,516 --> 00:22:40,796 good friends, that I respected their opinion. 595 00:22:40,876 --> 00:22:41,136 I asked- 596 00:22:41,146 --> 00:22:41,146 Yeah 597 00:22:41,146 --> 00:22:43,886 ... about five or six people that I like their taste. 598 00:22:43,956 --> 00:22:44,245 I think they- 599 00:22:44,336 --> 00:22:44,476 Yeah 600 00:22:44,496 --> 00:22:46,375 ... have good knowledge and taste of photography. 601 00:22:47,236 --> 00:22:50,836 And sometimes they completely disagreed with why I had a picture there. 602 00:22:50,896 --> 00:22:52,776 They would say it was too similar to the previous picture. 603 00:22:53,376 --> 00:22:57,296 But then that also reestablished why 604 00:22:57,436 --> 00:22:58,416 I liked it. I was like- 605 00:22:58,446 --> 00:22:58,446 Yeah 606 00:22:58,446 --> 00:23:01,426 ... "No, no, no. I think this because..." And it made me explain myself- 607 00:23:01,676 --> 00:23:01,876 Mm 608 00:23:01,895 --> 00:23:03,996 ... instead of it just being on a whim. 609 00:23:04,076 --> 00:23:04,236 Yeah. 610 00:23:05,056 --> 00:23:08,226 But it works both ways, where they would say they really like something because of 611 00:23:08,276 --> 00:23:11,226 a reason, and then I'd say, "Oh, that wasn't the intention. 612 00:23:11,256 --> 00:23:14,096 I don't like it because of that." And then I'd reconsider if I should keep it or 613 00:23:14,136 --> 00:23:14,536 not. 614 00:23:14,616 --> 00:23:14,756 Yeah. 615 00:23:14,836 --> 00:23:14,996 So, 616 00:23:15,856 --> 00:23:17,936 having that conversation with somebody and going- 617 00:23:17,956 --> 00:23:17,986 Yeah 618 00:23:17,986 --> 00:23:19,996 ... through that process really, really helped. 619 00:23:20,456 --> 00:23:20,676 And 620 00:23:21,496 --> 00:23:25,466 if I started with the 200 images that I printed, I maybe would've got it down 621 00:23:25,516 --> 00:23:28,486 to 100, just like, "Yeah, I think they're all all right." "None of them are 622 00:23:28,516 --> 00:23:32,385 amazing, but I think they're cool, whatever." But then after speaking to my 623 00:23:32,396 --> 00:23:35,636 friends, I realized that maybe 40 of them were actually okay. 624 00:23:35,856 --> 00:23:36,015 Yeah. 625 00:23:37,276 --> 00:23:39,356 Yeah. And now if I was to do it tomorrow, 626 00:23:40,636 --> 00:23:44,186 I think I'd have six pictures that I like after real- Your 627 00:23:44,376 --> 00:23:48,136 taste changes, and things you like and things you don't like changes over 628 00:23:48,216 --> 00:23:48,656 time, and- 629 00:23:48,956 --> 00:23:49,136 Yeah 630 00:23:49,216 --> 00:23:51,136 ... it's a whirlwind. It really is, yeah. 631 00:23:51,885 --> 00:23:55,756 Yeah. What photography or photographers inspire 632 00:23:55,876 --> 00:23:56,276 you? 633 00:23:57,496 --> 00:24:01,396 I've seen you look at photo books on your channel as 634 00:24:01,456 --> 00:24:05,136 well as the tech side of things, and you mentioned that's 635 00:24:06,016 --> 00:24:09,236 become something that you like to look at- 636 00:24:09,406 --> 00:24:09,406 Yeah 637 00:24:09,406 --> 00:24:12,196 ... and I guess collect in some ways. 638 00:24:13,396 --> 00:24:17,346 So I think the first photo book that I 639 00:24:17,376 --> 00:24:18,166 was truly, 640 00:24:19,385 --> 00:24:23,176 "Whoa, I didn't know this was possible," was Matt Stuart's "All That 641 00:24:23,216 --> 00:24:23,816 Life Can Afford". 642 00:24:24,056 --> 00:24:24,276 Mm. 643 00:24:25,216 --> 00:24:27,696 Matt Stuart's first episode of the podcast was amazing. 644 00:24:28,296 --> 00:24:31,996 I think Matt is a fantastic guy. And his photographs of London really 645 00:24:32,096 --> 00:24:33,956 opened my mind to what was possible. 646 00:24:34,156 --> 00:24:34,316 Yeah. 647 00:24:34,436 --> 00:24:35,216 So I'd seen 648 00:24:36,192 --> 00:24:38,152 documentary style street photographs- 649 00:24:38,212 --> 00:24:38,312 Yeah 650 00:24:38,332 --> 00:24:39,981 ... and fine art street photographs- 651 00:24:40,012 --> 00:24:40,021 Yeah 652 00:24:40,021 --> 00:24:42,642 ... and things that look nice. But when I saw Matt's 653 00:24:43,472 --> 00:24:45,362 juxtapositions and humor- 654 00:24:45,712 --> 00:24:45,762 Yeah 655 00:24:45,792 --> 00:24:48,692 ... in street, I thought, "Oh, that's possible." 656 00:24:49,692 --> 00:24:53,492 So definitely Matt's "All That Life Can Afford" is one of my all-time favorites. 657 00:24:53,512 --> 00:24:57,502 But then on a slightly more documentary note, Paul Graham's "A1", 658 00:24:57,892 --> 00:25:01,592 the "Great North Road" book, is such a cool project of the 659 00:25:01,672 --> 00:25:02,692 A1 in England. 660 00:25:03,222 --> 00:25:03,232 Yeah. 661 00:25:03,272 --> 00:25:06,172 And I can relate a little bit to that because when I moved from Lincolnshire down 662 00:25:06,192 --> 00:25:08,452 to Essex, I was taking the A1, so 663 00:25:09,292 --> 00:25:11,022 every other weekend, I was traveling up and down- 664 00:25:11,072 --> 00:25:11,372 Yeah 665 00:25:11,382 --> 00:25:15,202 ... as I was moving and things. And I know that road, and it's not that 666 00:25:15,252 --> 00:25:19,152 interesting. And then when I saw Paul Graham's "A1" book, I was like, 667 00:25:19,252 --> 00:25:22,532 "Wow." This was the late '80s or early '90s or something. 668 00:25:22,992 --> 00:25:23,002 Yeah. 669 00:25:23,012 --> 00:25:26,912 And that was fascinating, and then I start realizing at that point that 670 00:25:26,952 --> 00:25:30,132 photo projects exist, and then you start diving into specific- 671 00:25:30,492 --> 00:25:30,672 Mm 672 00:25:30,852 --> 00:25:33,592 ... collections of work and collections of a bunch of photographers. 673 00:25:34,452 --> 00:25:37,912 And then I think even just "Street Photography Now" 674 00:25:38,252 --> 00:25:38,502 and- 675 00:25:38,532 --> 00:25:38,732 Yeah 676 00:25:39,112 --> 00:25:42,212 ... those wider collections of street photography books are super fun. 677 00:25:44,132 --> 00:25:46,472 But the photo book world is infinite. 678 00:25:46,552 --> 00:25:46,732 Yeah. 679 00:25:46,812 --> 00:25:49,252 And there's a lot of amazing work out there. 680 00:25:49,272 --> 00:25:52,992 But I guess away from just books generally, I think Martin 681 00:25:53,072 --> 00:25:53,852 Parr, for example- 682 00:25:53,972 --> 00:25:54,252 Yeah 683 00:25:54,262 --> 00:25:55,512 ... one of the greatest photographers. 684 00:25:56,732 --> 00:25:57,592 Huge inspiration for- 685 00:25:58,032 --> 00:25:58,092 Yeah 686 00:25:58,102 --> 00:26:00,082 ... maybe just British photography as well, but- 687 00:26:00,532 --> 00:26:00,662 Yeah 688 00:26:00,752 --> 00:26:00,752 ... 689 00:26:01,572 --> 00:26:02,752 there's so much amazing work out there. 690 00:26:02,812 --> 00:26:05,332 I could just end- list loads and loads of photographers. 691 00:26:05,412 --> 00:26:07,902 But Elliot Erwitt as well is one of my favorites, yeah. 692 00:26:08,092 --> 00:26:11,692 Yeah. There's a certain level of maybe 693 00:26:11,732 --> 00:26:15,332 humor within photography that you 694 00:26:15,392 --> 00:26:18,872 like or are interested in, and I think that 695 00:26:18,932 --> 00:26:21,752 translates a little bit into your work. 696 00:26:21,772 --> 00:26:21,872 Yeah. 697 00:26:21,912 --> 00:26:25,632 Would you say that's maybe a small theme within what you 698 00:26:25,712 --> 00:26:26,992 see and what you're looking at? 699 00:26:28,232 --> 00:26:32,132 I like to think that because I'm not taking photography too 700 00:26:32,172 --> 00:26:33,032 seriously- 701 00:26:33,112 --> 00:26:33,712 Yeah 702 00:26:33,722 --> 00:26:34,952 ... that my photographs 703 00:26:35,932 --> 00:26:39,852 in some way are fun. Now, I might also take serious 704 00:26:39,872 --> 00:26:40,612 pictures as well. 705 00:26:40,852 --> 00:26:41,052 Yeah. 706 00:26:41,272 --> 00:26:42,912 And I have done. But 707 00:26:43,832 --> 00:26:47,492 I think when I go out to enjoy photography, I also want to enjoy the 708 00:26:47,532 --> 00:26:51,352 pictures I'm taking. So the things I'm looking for are never 709 00:26:51,412 --> 00:26:55,182 that serious, and the things I'm enjoying as a result of the pictures- 710 00:26:55,292 --> 00:26:55,472 Mm 711 00:26:55,532 --> 00:26:56,992 ... I realize actually this is 712 00:26:57,872 --> 00:26:58,452 quite light- 713 00:26:58,592 --> 00:26:58,742 Mm 714 00:26:59,052 --> 00:26:59,932 ... and chill and- 715 00:27:00,052 --> 00:27:00,212 Yeah 716 00:27:00,412 --> 00:27:00,412 ... 717 00:27:01,792 --> 00:27:03,752 I don't think any of my work is super dramatic- 718 00:27:04,152 --> 00:27:04,162 Yeah 719 00:27:04,172 --> 00:27:06,692 ... if that makes sense. And I know some people 720 00:27:07,832 --> 00:27:11,521 do take photography seriously, and they want all their photographs to have 721 00:27:11,592 --> 00:27:15,212 amazing stories, and they want their photographs to be dramatic and intense. 722 00:27:15,292 --> 00:27:15,412 But- 723 00:27:15,452 --> 00:27:15,521 Yeah 724 00:27:15,972 --> 00:27:17,212 ... that's not photography for me. 725 00:27:17,252 --> 00:27:21,172 So I want to keep it light, I think, is a good way to describe it. 726 00:27:21,202 --> 00:27:21,202 Yeah. 727 00:27:21,212 --> 00:27:23,032 And I really enjoy walking around London. 728 00:27:23,112 --> 00:27:26,772 I love the city, so I want to enjoy the pictures I take as well. 729 00:27:26,792 --> 00:27:26,832 Yeah. 730 00:27:26,912 --> 00:27:29,021 I don't want to make it too gritty or- 731 00:27:29,072 --> 00:27:29,252 Yeah 732 00:27:29,262 --> 00:27:32,552 ... intense in that way. I want to keep it colorful and light, so. 733 00:27:32,612 --> 00:27:34,032 Yeah. Individual to you. 734 00:27:34,062 --> 00:27:34,062 Mm. 735 00:27:34,092 --> 00:27:37,932 Totally. I think this would be a great moment to look 736 00:27:37,972 --> 00:27:39,112 at some of your work. 737 00:27:41,672 --> 00:27:45,462 So we have a segment called Unframed where I've 738 00:27:45,532 --> 00:27:48,352 asked you to submit two photographs to me 739 00:27:49,112 --> 00:27:52,992 that I have no context of. So I 740 00:27:53,012 --> 00:27:56,932 will take a look at them and then ask you to give me the full 741 00:27:57,392 --> 00:28:00,812 story behind them. So this first image 742 00:28:01,112 --> 00:28:04,932 is BMX, and it's someone 743 00:28:05,272 --> 00:28:06,152 literally in the air 744 00:28:07,552 --> 00:28:11,232 on a bike, on a bridge, river in the 745 00:28:11,292 --> 00:28:15,012 background, or water in the background, skyline 746 00:28:15,192 --> 00:28:19,052 of trees in the background. Could you tell me a little bit more about this 747 00:28:19,112 --> 00:28:19,572 photograph? 748 00:28:19,772 --> 00:28:20,792 So this is 749 00:28:21,592 --> 00:28:25,552 one of my good friends, Ben Towell, and I grew up with him in the BMX world 750 00:28:25,592 --> 00:28:25,692 and- 751 00:28:25,872 --> 00:28:25,902 Yeah 752 00:28:25,902 --> 00:28:29,512 ... in the skate world. We would spend most days together skateboarding and BMXing, 753 00:28:30,292 --> 00:28:33,292 and he was probably one of my main test subjects for photography. 754 00:28:33,352 --> 00:28:35,312 I think I have thousands of photographs of Ben. 755 00:28:37,092 --> 00:28:38,852 This was the Humber Bridge. 756 00:28:38,861 --> 00:28:38,861 Mm. 757 00:28:38,892 --> 00:28:42,852 This is the crossing between Hull and North Lincolnshire. 758 00:28:42,912 --> 00:28:43,412 Yeah. 759 00:28:43,872 --> 00:28:46,372 There's that little crack in the middle of the country on the east coast. 760 00:28:46,392 --> 00:28:46,502 Yeah. 761 00:28:46,592 --> 00:28:47,312 That's the Humber Bridge. 762 00:28:48,652 --> 00:28:52,532 We got up at 4:00 a.m. to do this. I think I only just passed 763 00:28:52,592 --> 00:28:54,872 my driving license, so I was able to drive. 764 00:28:55,012 --> 00:28:55,111 Yeah. 765 00:28:55,152 --> 00:28:56,312 I only just passed my driving test. 766 00:28:56,322 --> 00:28:56,322 Yeah. 767 00:28:56,332 --> 00:28:57,801 So I was able to drive there at 4:00 a.m. 768 00:28:58,252 --> 00:29:00,872 Anyone that knows the Humber Bridge, it's super busy all the time. 769 00:29:01,232 --> 00:29:03,232 So we had to get up at 4:00 a.m. when there was no traffic. 770 00:29:03,252 --> 00:29:03,492 Wow. 771 00:29:03,792 --> 00:29:07,672 And Ben's doing a tail whip. So I have no idea how he 772 00:29:07,692 --> 00:29:10,632 thought of this picture. Maybe just because the Humber Bridge is quite iconic up 773 00:29:10,672 --> 00:29:11,512 north in that way. 774 00:29:11,932 --> 00:29:11,942 Yeah. 775 00:29:11,952 --> 00:29:14,132 And we thought him doing a hop whip would be fun. 776 00:29:14,892 --> 00:29:18,662 But the reason I've shown you it here is I didn't know 777 00:29:18,712 --> 00:29:20,672 anything about camera settings at this point still. 778 00:29:20,792 --> 00:29:24,722 I think I only just realized after, "Why is his wheel blurry?" Like- 779 00:29:25,242 --> 00:29:27,372 ... "Oh, that's because the shutter speed's too slow." 780 00:29:27,552 --> 00:29:27,732 Yeah. 781 00:29:29,192 --> 00:29:32,162 But it reminds me how much fun we had- 782 00:29:32,532 --> 00:29:32,602 Yeah 783 00:29:32,602 --> 00:29:34,872 ... trying to think of photo opportunities. 784 00:29:34,892 --> 00:29:38,112 Whereas before this point, I was always interested in just the tricks. 785 00:29:38,152 --> 00:29:38,852 Yeah. 786 00:29:38,872 --> 00:29:42,312 But at this point, I wanted to try and get a good-- I was like, "I want to get an 787 00:29:42,372 --> 00:29:43,272 interesting picture." 788 00:29:43,352 --> 00:29:43,682 Yeah. 789 00:29:43,692 --> 00:29:46,832 And that was the first time I think I considered the photography aspect- 790 00:29:47,032 --> 00:29:47,192 Yeah 791 00:29:47,292 --> 00:29:50,952 ... more than I considered-- I didn't care for what trick he was doing. 792 00:29:51,012 --> 00:29:53,712 I just wanted to get up at 4:00 a.m. and go to the bridge and take a picture. 793 00:29:53,752 --> 00:29:53,912 Yeah. 794 00:29:54,552 --> 00:29:58,272 So this is like a milestone for me when I was like, "Oh, the 795 00:29:58,332 --> 00:29:59,562 process of photography is- 796 00:29:59,592 --> 00:30:00,052 Amazing 797 00:30:00,132 --> 00:30:02,652 ... more enjoyable than the tricks that we're doing- 798 00:30:02,832 --> 00:30:02,842 Yeah 799 00:30:02,842 --> 00:30:04,352 ... in a way." Yeah. 800 00:30:04,492 --> 00:30:07,952 And actually, I didn't even realize this. 801 00:30:08,012 --> 00:30:11,512 I have no idea how, but there is literally no traffic on 802 00:30:11,592 --> 00:30:15,452 this road and bridge. It's literally just one truck in the 803 00:30:15,512 --> 00:30:15,952 background. 804 00:30:16,001 --> 00:30:16,001 Yeah. 805 00:30:16,001 --> 00:30:16,001 And that's it. 806 00:30:16,012 --> 00:30:19,092 Which was super hard for us to do. I think that's why we got up so early to do it. 807 00:30:19,112 --> 00:30:19,292 Yeah. 808 00:30:19,452 --> 00:30:22,042 So it was like the first time I ever went on a photography mission- 809 00:30:22,432 --> 00:30:22,442 Yeah 810 00:30:22,442 --> 00:30:23,432 ... to go and achieve something. 811 00:30:23,712 --> 00:30:25,812 Yeah. Amazing. Great photograph. 812 00:30:27,072 --> 00:30:30,712 We have a second photograph here, which is 813 00:30:31,432 --> 00:30:34,212 one of those serendipitous kind of moments, 814 00:30:34,542 --> 00:30:38,432 and it's multiple people, I guess, 815 00:30:38,552 --> 00:30:42,132 pointing or using their hands to point in some 816 00:30:42,172 --> 00:30:45,372 way. And in the background there is 817 00:30:46,162 --> 00:30:50,052 A image of hands pointing, maybe it's an advert or 818 00:30:50,102 --> 00:30:52,622 something like that, or an image from a store. 819 00:30:53,422 --> 00:30:57,072 And this just works really beautifully all together. 820 00:30:57,362 --> 00:31:01,181 Beautiful sunlight, different things going on. Tell me about this photograph. 821 00:31:01,502 --> 00:31:05,412 So unlike the previous photo we just looked at, which I don't think is that 822 00:31:05,542 --> 00:31:08,802 good of an image. I think I've shown you it just because it's such a good memory 823 00:31:08,842 --> 00:31:09,162 for me. 824 00:31:09,482 --> 00:31:09,602 Yeah. 825 00:31:10,382 --> 00:31:11,822 This one I am pleased with. 826 00:31:11,852 --> 00:31:11,852 Yeah. 827 00:31:11,882 --> 00:31:15,842 I think when I took this, I didn't know I had this until later 828 00:31:15,902 --> 00:31:19,442 when I looked at what I had on the SD card. But this was in Lisbon. 829 00:31:19,842 --> 00:31:21,722 I love the hands in the background because- 830 00:31:21,762 --> 00:31:21,822 Yeah 831 00:31:21,831 --> 00:31:23,842 ... there's still no branding on it. 832 00:31:23,922 --> 00:31:25,222 Yeah. That's the bizarre thing. 833 00:31:25,342 --> 00:31:28,342 I can't tell you now what it was for. 834 00:31:28,362 --> 00:31:28,772 And most things- 835 00:31:28,782 --> 00:31:29,822 If anyone can tell us- 836 00:31:29,882 --> 00:31:30,282 Yeah 837 00:31:30,292 --> 00:31:30,872 ... let us know. 838 00:31:31,282 --> 00:31:34,462 Most things in the street have an ugly logo on it somewhere. 839 00:31:34,662 --> 00:31:35,002 Yeah. 840 00:31:35,302 --> 00:31:36,542 A title of some kind. 841 00:31:36,702 --> 00:31:36,922 Yeah. 842 00:31:36,982 --> 00:31:39,522 But this was just, yeah, just the hands. They really caught my attention. 843 00:31:39,582 --> 00:31:42,742 And someone has drawn, I don't know if you can see, a little smiley face in the 844 00:31:42,782 --> 00:31:42,992 middle- 845 00:31:43,362 --> 00:31:43,412 Oh, yeah 846 00:31:43,442 --> 00:31:45,902 ... where there's tomatoes or something in the picture. 847 00:31:46,322 --> 00:31:46,331 Yeah. 848 00:31:46,362 --> 00:31:49,542 So I think the smiley face caught my attention, and then I stood 849 00:31:50,782 --> 00:31:54,682 there with the Q2 for 45 minutes thinking in 850 00:31:54,722 --> 00:31:57,162 my mind, "I need something hand related." 851 00:31:57,242 --> 00:31:57,582 Yeah. 852 00:31:58,542 --> 00:32:02,282 I think I got a frame of someone's hand just in the left, and then I got two 853 00:32:02,342 --> 00:32:05,942 people pointing, and I thought maybe three people pointing would be good. 854 00:32:05,962 --> 00:32:07,722 And then one thing leads to another. 855 00:32:07,822 --> 00:32:11,712 45 minutes later, I've 500 photos later, and 856 00:32:11,722 --> 00:32:13,622 then I realize-- I think I walked away not happy. 857 00:32:13,682 --> 00:32:16,582 I was like, "I don't think I have anything here. This was too complicated. 858 00:32:16,622 --> 00:32:17,422 This was too difficult." 859 00:32:19,082 --> 00:32:20,982 I say not happy, I was still enjoying myself. 860 00:32:20,992 --> 00:32:20,992 Yeah. 861 00:32:21,062 --> 00:32:24,782 But I was like, "Nah, never mind. Moving on." And then I looked at my laptop, 862 00:32:24,942 --> 00:32:26,502 looked in Lightroom, and I was like, "Ah. 863 00:32:27,342 --> 00:32:28,942 I think this is the one." 864 00:32:29,062 --> 00:32:29,282 Yeah. 865 00:32:30,342 --> 00:32:33,242 And I think still today, and that was four years ago or three years ago- 866 00:32:33,602 --> 00:32:33,642 Yeah 867 00:32:33,652 --> 00:32:34,902 ... it's still one of my favorite pictures. 868 00:32:35,022 --> 00:32:38,882 Yeah. It's great. It's really playful, but the 869 00:32:38,922 --> 00:32:42,462 composition is just wonderful. So, great photograph. 870 00:32:42,582 --> 00:32:46,432 There's a certain level of storytelling from your photographs, 871 00:32:46,722 --> 00:32:49,302 especially because of the street photography 872 00:32:50,302 --> 00:32:54,282 element to them. What do the stories from your 873 00:32:54,802 --> 00:32:56,482 photographs tell you about the world? 874 00:32:56,581 --> 00:32:56,882 So, 875 00:32:57,782 --> 00:33:01,162 when you take that photograph, take it back to your computer, 876 00:33:01,822 --> 00:33:05,632 is there anything you kind of see, and you feel like you're learning 877 00:33:05,662 --> 00:33:07,832 something about people or places? 878 00:33:08,282 --> 00:33:10,742 Yeah, that's a great question. I don't think I've 879 00:33:11,042 --> 00:33:14,702 thought about it too much, but there's a 880 00:33:14,862 --> 00:33:18,782 wonderful word or description called sonder, and 881 00:33:18,842 --> 00:33:22,542 it's the description or the idea that other people are also 882 00:33:22,602 --> 00:33:25,522 living infinitely complex lives as you are. 883 00:33:25,562 --> 00:33:28,602 Whereas you feel like you're the main character of your own life, but that's 884 00:33:28,682 --> 00:33:31,612 happening everywhere. Everyone thinks that they're the main character. 885 00:33:32,802 --> 00:33:36,522 And photography, street photography is a visual example 886 00:33:36,582 --> 00:33:39,422 of sonder, of everybody's living their own life- 887 00:33:39,462 --> 00:33:39,562 Yeah 888 00:33:39,572 --> 00:33:43,422 ... with their own joys and lows and wonderful things happening and not so 889 00:33:43,482 --> 00:33:47,302 wonderful things happening. And I think the best way when I talk 890 00:33:47,362 --> 00:33:51,112 about street photography to non-photographers is that everyone enjoys people 891 00:33:51,182 --> 00:33:51,582 watching. 892 00:33:51,842 --> 00:33:51,982 Yeah. 893 00:33:52,062 --> 00:33:55,882 Everyone loves being a little bit nosy or understanding, "Oh, what's 894 00:33:55,922 --> 00:33:56,711 happening over there?" 895 00:33:58,362 --> 00:34:02,082 Street photography is just a visual demonstration of people watching. 896 00:34:02,442 --> 00:34:03,762 Yeah. 897 00:34:04,182 --> 00:34:07,651 And until you really look at great street work 898 00:34:07,962 --> 00:34:11,822 from the greats that have been before us, you realize that 899 00:34:12,122 --> 00:34:13,682 so much happens on the street- 900 00:34:13,882 --> 00:34:13,892 Yeah 901 00:34:13,892 --> 00:34:17,741 ... that it's infinite. You can't even imagine what's possible. 902 00:34:18,062 --> 00:34:18,303 Yeah. 903 00:34:18,342 --> 00:34:20,741 And especially in the world of AI with us today. 904 00:34:21,042 --> 00:34:24,822 AI can't actually imagine the possibilities. 905 00:34:25,013 --> 00:34:25,013 Yeah. 906 00:34:25,022 --> 00:34:28,743 It requires real life to go out there and see the 907 00:34:28,783 --> 00:34:29,453 magic and the 908 00:34:30,642 --> 00:34:34,562 wit and the coincidences and the absolute one in a million 909 00:34:34,622 --> 00:34:36,082 things that just happen right in front of you. 910 00:34:36,332 --> 00:34:36,332 Yeah. 911 00:34:36,382 --> 00:34:40,203 And if you're not a photographer and you're not seeing it, then you just 912 00:34:40,263 --> 00:34:41,241 don't appreciate it. 913 00:34:41,322 --> 00:34:41,462 Yeah. 914 00:34:41,942 --> 00:34:42,062 And 915 00:34:42,962 --> 00:34:46,942 after a day of photography sometimes, if I've taken 1,000 pictures from a full 916 00:34:47,002 --> 00:34:50,723 day in London, I go through the catalog afterwards and I'm like, "Wow, 917 00:34:50,822 --> 00:34:52,263 life is complex." 918 00:34:52,442 --> 00:34:52,473 Yeah. 919 00:34:52,572 --> 00:34:56,542 There's some quite sad things in here, some little awkward things 920 00:34:56,582 --> 00:34:58,942 in here, and there's some really joyful things in here. 921 00:34:58,962 --> 00:35:01,732 And you do that over 10 years- 922 00:35:01,922 --> 00:35:02,122 Yeah 923 00:35:02,132 --> 00:35:02,132 ... 924 00:35:03,162 --> 00:35:07,052 I think I've become so much more grateful and appreciative of everything- 925 00:35:07,322 --> 00:35:07,662 Yeah 926 00:35:07,672 --> 00:35:11,182 ... because I'm seeing it all. I'm watching it all unfold. 927 00:35:11,242 --> 00:35:11,542 Yeah. 928 00:35:11,642 --> 00:35:15,542 And it also gets you out of your own head a little bit, I think. 929 00:35:15,562 --> 00:35:15,982 Yeah. 930 00:35:16,002 --> 00:35:19,822 It's easy to go out in London and walk the same streets with your 931 00:35:19,862 --> 00:35:23,722 head down and go from one thing to another, and yeah, you 932 00:35:23,762 --> 00:35:27,722 might have a nice lunch, but then it's raining outside and you're like, "Ah." Life 933 00:35:27,762 --> 00:35:28,342 is life, but 934 00:35:29,442 --> 00:35:31,982 doing life with street photography alongside is just- 935 00:35:32,172 --> 00:35:32,172 Yeah 936 00:35:32,172 --> 00:35:33,222 ... infinitely more interesting. 937 00:35:33,762 --> 00:35:33,812 Yeah. 938 00:35:33,882 --> 00:35:37,802 And that's why people watching street photography, I 939 00:35:37,842 --> 00:35:40,262 think everyone can enjoy people watching to some extent. 940 00:35:40,592 --> 00:35:40,592 Yeah. 941 00:35:40,622 --> 00:35:43,362 So I feel like street photography is just that. It's just people watching. 942 00:35:43,402 --> 00:35:44,022 With a camera. 943 00:35:44,302 --> 00:35:44,402 Yeah. 944 00:35:45,902 --> 00:35:49,342 How did you build up the courage to take 945 00:35:49,362 --> 00:35:53,322 photographs of people and go out onto the street 946 00:35:53,362 --> 00:35:55,962 without fear? Maybe there's still fear there in some way. 947 00:35:57,042 --> 00:36:00,882 I think I'm still aware that I'm not completely 948 00:36:00,902 --> 00:36:03,322 comfortable doing it. I'm still aware that I'm doing something- 949 00:36:03,332 --> 00:36:03,332 Mm 950 00:36:03,362 --> 00:36:04,702 ... that is a little bit different. 951 00:36:05,962 --> 00:36:09,632 But part of me likes that a little bit, that I'm out of my 952 00:36:09,662 --> 00:36:11,202 comfort zone to some extent. 953 00:36:13,082 --> 00:36:17,062 But I think being on the street skateboarding, and sometimes when you're on a 954 00:36:17,122 --> 00:36:19,002 skateboard, you're in places you shouldn't be. 955 00:36:19,082 --> 00:36:20,532 And I think I just got used to 956 00:36:21,902 --> 00:36:22,862 being aware of that- 957 00:36:23,142 --> 00:36:23,222 Yeah 958 00:36:23,262 --> 00:36:24,322 ... I think, and 959 00:36:25,662 --> 00:36:28,882 I'm lucky that in London especially, people are too busy. 960 00:36:29,262 --> 00:36:30,582 No one really questions it too much. 961 00:36:30,642 --> 00:36:32,682 I've never had a negative interaction, for example. 962 00:36:32,742 --> 00:36:33,282 Yeah. 963 00:36:34,102 --> 00:36:37,202 Good body language, show respect, have a smile on your face. 964 00:36:37,362 --> 00:36:37,392 Yeah. 965 00:36:37,412 --> 00:36:41,142 It goes a long way. And the interactions that I do have with people always end up 966 00:36:41,202 --> 00:36:42,642 being pretty cool anyway. 967 00:36:42,802 --> 00:36:43,102 Yeah. 968 00:36:43,942 --> 00:36:44,862 But I guess it's 969 00:36:45,782 --> 00:36:48,782 kind of what I was saying earlier, not overthinking it too much. 970 00:36:48,902 --> 00:36:49,142 Yeah. 971 00:36:49,242 --> 00:36:51,102 If you do overthink it too much 972 00:36:51,950 --> 00:36:55,410 It's easy to get in your own head, and then that might stop you from taking 973 00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:55,769 pictures. 974 00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:56,850 Mm. 975 00:36:57,370 --> 00:37:00,710 So yeah, there are days where I'm like, "Ah, feeling a bit introverted right now. 976 00:37:00,790 --> 00:37:03,750 I don't really want to take that picture," and I don't. 977 00:37:03,770 --> 00:37:04,170 Yeah. 978 00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:05,850 I try and keep it enjoyable. 979 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:05,920 Yeah. 980 00:37:05,950 --> 00:37:09,650 Some days I'm feeling super extroverted and chat to everyone and take photographs 981 00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:11,570 of everyone, and some days are different. 982 00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:15,150 So just being aware of that and understanding how you're feeling and leaning into 983 00:37:15,190 --> 00:37:15,610 it a little bit. 984 00:37:15,870 --> 00:37:16,850 Yeah, for sure. 985 00:37:18,190 --> 00:37:22,030 Leica cameras obviously feature heavily in your work, 986 00:37:22,150 --> 00:37:23,890 your reviews- 987 00:37:24,009 --> 00:37:24,090 Yeah 988 00:37:24,210 --> 00:37:24,570 ... you're 989 00:37:26,330 --> 00:37:28,210 walking and talking- 990 00:37:28,530 --> 00:37:28,540 Mm 991 00:37:28,540 --> 00:37:32,430 ... with your camera, and we have two of them here, 992 00:37:32,570 --> 00:37:35,270 or your two Leicas here today. 993 00:37:36,590 --> 00:37:39,890 What was your first experience with Leica? 994 00:37:39,970 --> 00:37:42,950 So I owned the Q2 for a year, which was- 995 00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:43,050 Mm 996 00:37:43,850 --> 00:37:45,710 ... is still a wonderful camera. 997 00:37:47,010 --> 00:37:50,790 But my very first experience was one of my friends, Dan 998 00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:54,010 Baker, fantastic street photographer in Cleethorpes in England. 999 00:37:55,410 --> 00:37:59,210 He just bought the M11, and I spent the day with him shooting along the 1000 00:37:59,250 --> 00:38:01,620 seaside, and I just held his M11 ... 1001 00:38:01,650 --> 00:38:05,620 and used the focus and looked through the rangefinder, and I was like, 1002 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,090 "Wow, I didn't know a camera could feel like that." 1003 00:38:08,690 --> 00:38:08,830 Yeah. 1004 00:38:08,930 --> 00:38:11,740 And then that was when I realized. I was like, "Okay, I'm in here, aren't I? 1005 00:38:11,740 --> 00:38:12,970 I can't ignore that feeling." 1006 00:38:14,290 --> 00:38:15,300 So then I got the Q2, I 1007 00:38:16,210 --> 00:38:18,430 feel like the Q is an excellent entry system into- 1008 00:38:18,450 --> 00:38:18,530 Yeah 1009 00:38:18,540 --> 00:38:22,310 ... the world of Leica. And then, yeah, the M11-P, when that came out, I picked 1010 00:38:22,330 --> 00:38:24,590 that up. Also got the MP as well now. 1011 00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:24,670 Yeah. 1012 00:38:24,750 --> 00:38:28,670 And honestly, how many times do I need to say I want to enjoy 1013 00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:30,710 photography, and it's all about enjoying it and the process- 1014 00:38:31,010 --> 00:38:31,340 Mm 1015 00:38:31,340 --> 00:38:33,390 ... and the experience of using a Leica really is- 1016 00:38:33,870 --> 00:38:33,990 Yeah 1017 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:35,430 ... the best, or the very best. So, 1018 00:38:37,150 --> 00:38:39,870 it's funny now, we all love camera gear, right? 1019 00:38:39,950 --> 00:38:41,350 If you're a camera tech nerd- 1020 00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:41,580 Yeah 1021 00:38:41,580 --> 00:38:45,280 ... you're interested. But when I use the M11 or the MP, I don't 1022 00:38:45,330 --> 00:38:49,130 know what you could do to make that a 1023 00:38:49,170 --> 00:38:50,730 better experience. They're truly- 1024 00:38:50,750 --> 00:38:50,780 Yeah 1025 00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:53,030 ... just fantastic. I'm not just saying that because I'm sat here. 1026 00:38:53,770 --> 00:38:54,780 I'm like, "You have to say that." I'm just kidding. 1027 00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:58,610 Yeah, they really are the best things to hold and use, and that mechanical 1028 00:38:58,690 --> 00:38:59,150 feeling and- 1029 00:38:59,250 --> 00:38:59,490 Yeah 1030 00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:01,370 ... it's very tactile. Yeah, it's a joy. 1031 00:39:01,729 --> 00:39:02,670 Yeah, incredible. 1032 00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:08,090 You hosted a Leica Academy workshop in Vienna. 1033 00:39:09,070 --> 00:39:11,490 What was this teaching experience like? 1034 00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:14,490 Yeah, that was super fun. Incredibly grateful I had that 1035 00:39:14,510 --> 00:39:17,650 opportunity. I tried to condense 1036 00:39:17,710 --> 00:39:21,450 and bring all of my YouTube stuff that I've taught and try 1037 00:39:21,490 --> 00:39:24,880 and pull out the insights and highlights that I think are worth sharing in person, 1038 00:39:25,410 --> 00:39:27,330 some of the more practical ideas as well. 1039 00:39:27,350 --> 00:39:28,170 Yeah. 1040 00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:30,400 But the group that I was with in Vienna, it was like we were just hanging out for a 1041 00:39:30,410 --> 00:39:32,280 few days, shooting some street stuff. 1042 00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:32,970 Yeah. 1043 00:39:33,050 --> 00:39:34,780 Again, I try not to overthink it too much. 1044 00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:39,980 Everyone there felt like they knew me anyway- 1045 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:40,120 Yeah 1046 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,610 ... so I'm super lucky that the people who watch my videos are just so cool and- 1047 00:39:44,670 --> 00:39:44,750 Yeah 1048 00:39:44,790 --> 00:39:46,810 ... yeah, we had a great time. Yeah. 1049 00:39:48,130 --> 00:39:51,690 Yeah. In line with that, travel must be a big part of your 1050 00:39:51,770 --> 00:39:55,750 work. Is there a place or a country that you love to 1051 00:39:55,770 --> 00:39:56,670 photograph? 1052 00:39:58,030 --> 00:40:00,230 It can be London as well- 1053 00:40:00,390 --> 00:40:00,560 Yeah 1054 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:01,110 ... and the UK. 1055 00:40:01,610 --> 00:40:01,730 I'm 1056 00:40:03,650 --> 00:40:07,110 just going to say the UK because every time I leave the country, 1057 00:40:08,050 --> 00:40:09,790 it's amazing to travel and see the world. 1058 00:40:10,370 --> 00:40:12,510 Every time I come back to the UK, I'm pleased. 1059 00:40:12,750 --> 00:40:12,890 Mm. 1060 00:40:14,330 --> 00:40:18,230 And that's rare, I think, for an English person to be like, "Yeah, our country's 1061 00:40:18,270 --> 00:40:18,710 so good." 1062 00:40:19,690 --> 00:40:22,770 And every place has its problems, and it's good, and it's bad. 1063 00:40:23,470 --> 00:40:23,670 But, 1064 00:40:24,490 --> 00:40:28,050 I feel eternally grateful to have been born in that country, 1065 00:40:28,750 --> 00:40:32,470 and the opportunities and how I live my life now is because of what that 1066 00:40:32,490 --> 00:40:35,920 country's had to offer, I think, and my own doings- 1067 00:40:35,950 --> 00:40:35,960 Yeah 1068 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,370 ... for example. But I think England has such 1069 00:40:39,510 --> 00:40:43,470 interesting culture, and the people are amazing, and if I could 1070 00:40:43,530 --> 00:40:46,790 only photograph one place forever, it would be the UK. 1071 00:40:47,410 --> 00:40:47,420 Yeah. 1072 00:40:47,890 --> 00:40:49,190 I want to travel to Scotland a little bit more. 1073 00:40:49,250 --> 00:40:50,810 I definitely want to go to Ireland a little bit more. 1074 00:40:51,630 --> 00:40:51,870 But 1075 00:40:52,670 --> 00:40:54,790 yeah, England and the UK is infinitely interesting. 1076 00:40:54,890 --> 00:40:55,050 So- 1077 00:40:55,330 --> 00:40:55,510 Yeah 1078 00:40:55,570 --> 00:40:58,140 ... I'm just going to say. It's very biased, I know, because I'm English, but- 1079 00:40:58,510 --> 00:40:59,260 No, I think that's fine 1080 00:40:59,260 --> 00:41:02,310 ... I don't mind being a little bit proud and rooting for my own country a little 1081 00:41:02,350 --> 00:41:02,910 bit. Yeah. 1082 00:41:03,070 --> 00:41:04,330 Yeah, absolutely. You have to. 1083 00:41:07,130 --> 00:41:10,750 From that, what do you look out for when you're 1084 00:41:10,769 --> 00:41:14,210 photographing? So obviously you mentioned 1085 00:41:14,290 --> 00:41:18,070 people and places in the UK. Not just the 1086 00:41:18,130 --> 00:41:21,590 UK obviously, but in general, what are you looking out for? 1087 00:41:22,490 --> 00:41:26,070 I think a really obvious simple answer would be 1088 00:41:27,370 --> 00:41:28,090 contrast. 1089 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:28,320 Yeah. 1090 00:41:28,370 --> 00:41:32,219 So that covers a lot, right? So contrast in emotions, people's 1091 00:41:32,250 --> 00:41:32,860 expressions- 1092 00:41:32,940 --> 00:41:32,950 Yeah 1093 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,660 ... contrast in people's movements, things that 1094 00:41:37,730 --> 00:41:39,719 just break that pattern of normal. 1095 00:41:40,110 --> 00:41:43,170 So if you look at the street, it's typically quite boring. 1096 00:41:43,210 --> 00:41:45,770 Any street is just the usual street activities. 1097 00:41:45,810 --> 00:41:46,010 Mm. 1098 00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:50,230 But as soon as something happens or something contrasts that 1099 00:41:50,750 --> 00:41:52,219 normal or normality- 1100 00:41:52,330 --> 00:41:52,450 Yeah 1101 00:41:52,890 --> 00:41:56,550 ... then there's a picture. So whether that is a sea of gray- 1102 00:41:56,950 --> 00:41:57,020 Mm-hmm 1103 00:41:57,020 --> 00:41:57,850 ... and then somebody in red. 1104 00:41:58,370 --> 00:41:58,400 Yeah. 1105 00:41:58,410 --> 00:41:59,980 That's an obvious one to describe. 1106 00:42:00,710 --> 00:42:04,670 Or light and shadow is such an easy focal point to 1107 00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:08,620 be interested in. So when I'm looking at the street or if I'm looking anywhere I'm 1108 00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:12,030 traveling, it's for the thing that looks less normal. 1109 00:42:12,750 --> 00:42:14,880 And it doesn't have to be groundbreaking or dramatic or intense. 1110 00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:14,940 Yeah. 1111 00:42:14,940 --> 00:42:18,110 It can just be something that stands out, like when we looked at the picture of the 1112 00:42:18,170 --> 00:42:18,610 hands. 1113 00:42:18,790 --> 00:42:18,990 Yeah. 1114 00:42:19,290 --> 00:42:22,690 That high street in Lisbon was a very normal-looking high street, but the hands 1115 00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:24,230 were just slightly different- 1116 00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:24,480 Yeah 1117 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:25,610 ... just slightly more interesting. 1118 00:42:25,690 --> 00:42:27,590 So anything that 1119 00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:32,430 stands out for any reason, but that's almost impossible to describe. 1120 00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:32,930 That's why I say- 1121 00:42:33,020 --> 00:42:33,020 No 1122 00:42:33,050 --> 00:42:36,710 ... contrast, because contrast is a thing that stands out a little bit more. 1123 00:42:36,740 --> 00:42:39,350 And I think when we look at photographs, our eyes are drawn. 1124 00:42:39,850 --> 00:42:41,469 I think our eyes are drawn to two things. 1125 00:42:41,590 --> 00:42:45,310 It's other people, because human beings look at other human beings, and 1126 00:42:45,470 --> 00:42:48,550 contrast, whether that's contrast in color or contrast in light or- 1127 00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:48,760 Yeah 1128 00:42:48,890 --> 00:42:52,860 ... shape or whatever it might be. But the thing about street photography is 1129 00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:54,250 you can't describe what it might be. 1130 00:42:54,510 --> 00:42:54,670 Yeah. 1131 00:42:55,250 --> 00:42:58,980 So in my mind, when I think about it now, it's probably color and 1132 00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:59,310 light, 1133 00:43:00,130 --> 00:43:03,490 and then any moment that stands out from a regular-looking street. 1134 00:43:03,730 --> 00:43:07,366 Yeah. With the image of the hands that we referenced 1135 00:43:07,446 --> 00:43:07,946 earlier, 1136 00:43:08,866 --> 00:43:12,796 you mentioned talking about staying in one spot, 1137 00:43:13,446 --> 00:43:15,426 photographing prolifically- 1138 00:43:15,436 --> 00:43:15,436 Yeah 1139 00:43:15,436 --> 00:43:17,416 ... maybe in one spot and then moving on. 1140 00:43:18,126 --> 00:43:20,576 Is that something that you do regularly, 1141 00:43:21,566 --> 00:43:22,426 stay in one place- 1142 00:43:22,446 --> 00:43:22,566 Yeah 1143 00:43:23,106 --> 00:43:25,016 ... photograph, and then see what happens? 1144 00:43:25,746 --> 00:43:29,636 Yeah, I try and have a mix of both, of just constantly walking and enjoying 1145 00:43:29,686 --> 00:43:30,136 the sights. 1146 00:43:31,046 --> 00:43:33,716 But if I have a good feeling about something, then yeah. 1147 00:43:33,766 --> 00:43:33,946 Yeah. 1148 00:43:34,526 --> 00:43:37,266 The one with the hands, for example, was interesting enough 1149 00:43:38,286 --> 00:43:40,166 where I was like, "I'm going to give this time and space- 1150 00:43:40,306 --> 00:43:40,316 Yeah 1151 00:43:40,316 --> 00:43:41,126 ... to try and figure this out." 1152 00:43:43,046 --> 00:43:46,835 I have less fun doing that because you're seeing less of the city. 1153 00:43:46,876 --> 00:43:46,876 Yeah. 1154 00:43:46,886 --> 00:43:47,946 Like, we're in Lisbon, for example. 1155 00:43:48,006 --> 00:43:51,936 I want to see as much as possible, so I think I would prefer to keep moving, but at 1156 00:43:51,966 --> 00:43:52,566 the same time, 1157 00:43:53,626 --> 00:43:54,786 I have a good feeling about something- 1158 00:43:54,966 --> 00:43:55,066 Yeah 1159 00:43:55,206 --> 00:43:58,086 ... it's just a gut feeling. I don't know. 1160 00:43:58,986 --> 00:44:02,046 But a mix of both. I think that's the longest I might have spent- 1161 00:44:02,486 --> 00:44:02,576 Yeah 1162 00:44:02,626 --> 00:44:05,766 ... in a spot. It's definitely not gone more than 45 minutes. 1163 00:44:06,226 --> 00:44:08,816 But I might hover around for five or 10 minutes if I see something that has 1164 00:44:08,886 --> 00:44:10,046 potential, for example. 1165 00:44:10,146 --> 00:44:14,046 Yeah. How does your own community keep 1166 00:44:14,086 --> 00:44:17,956 you inspired? Obviously, you have your 1167 00:44:17,986 --> 00:44:21,866 community on social media and also, I guess, the 1168 00:44:21,906 --> 00:44:23,716 wider photographic community. 1169 00:44:25,166 --> 00:44:26,526 Is there certain 1170 00:44:27,426 --> 00:44:30,226 influences that keep you inspired from each? 1171 00:44:31,546 --> 00:44:35,446 I think the online world is an infinite amount of 1172 00:44:35,506 --> 00:44:36,486 inspiration, but it- 1173 00:44:36,586 --> 00:44:36,636 Yeah 1174 00:44:36,646 --> 00:44:37,646 ... borderlines the 1175 00:44:38,646 --> 00:44:39,906 consuming too much. 1176 00:44:40,266 --> 00:44:40,446 Yeah. 1177 00:44:40,536 --> 00:44:42,666 And then it can get a little bit overwhelming. 1178 00:44:43,346 --> 00:44:46,186 So, like any of us, I try and not go on my phone as much as I 1179 00:44:47,126 --> 00:44:47,626 probably am. 1180 00:44:48,926 --> 00:44:50,086 But books is huge. 1181 00:44:50,416 --> 00:44:50,416 Yeah. 1182 00:44:50,486 --> 00:44:54,306 And sharing books with friends has been a huge thing, and sharing 1183 00:44:54,406 --> 00:44:57,586 ideas and recommendations with people is great. 1184 00:44:58,726 --> 00:45:02,246 Definitely the people I hang around with and shoot with, that matters a lot. 1185 00:45:02,426 --> 00:45:06,416 I think there might have been periods or months at a time where I might 1186 00:45:06,426 --> 00:45:09,486 not be enjoying it as much, and you slow down the amount that you're taking 1187 00:45:09,506 --> 00:45:09,846 pictures. 1188 00:45:09,896 --> 00:45:09,896 Yeah. 1189 00:45:09,906 --> 00:45:13,246 But then you're reminded, like, "Oh, one of my best friends had a really good day 1190 00:45:13,266 --> 00:45:16,586 in the city," and I'm reminded how fun it could be, for example, and then that joy 1191 00:45:16,666 --> 00:45:19,786 is brought back. So definitely the physical world. 1192 00:45:20,086 --> 00:45:22,886 Books, huge inspiration. The online world is amazing. 1193 00:45:23,086 --> 00:45:26,926 Obviously, I wouldn't be making the videos and stuff I'm making now if I didn't see 1194 00:45:26,966 --> 00:45:30,676 other people also doing it. So huge credit to things like 1195 00:45:30,706 --> 00:45:33,166 Instagram. I know it is such an easy thing to hate. 1196 00:45:33,676 --> 00:45:36,286 But without Instagram, I wouldn't be chatting to as many people. 1197 00:45:36,366 --> 00:45:37,786 I wouldn't be connecting with as many people. 1198 00:45:38,126 --> 00:45:38,546 Yeah. 1199 00:45:39,306 --> 00:45:43,206 So maybe I'm just being this too positive English guy, but Instagram's 1200 00:45:43,266 --> 00:45:46,246 great. YouTube's great. It's all fantastic that it exists. 1201 00:45:46,926 --> 00:45:50,086 And then photo books are probably the biggest, I think. 1202 00:45:50,346 --> 00:45:50,506 Yeah. 1203 00:45:50,826 --> 00:45:53,666 But I have a lot of good friends that are photographers, so that keeps me happy as 1204 00:45:53,686 --> 00:45:54,386 well, keeps me going. 1205 00:45:54,686 --> 00:45:57,786 Yeah. And you also have the opportunity to reach out and 1206 00:45:58,646 --> 00:46:02,566 interact with people who are watching 1207 00:46:03,026 --> 00:46:03,655 your videos- 1208 00:46:03,686 --> 00:46:03,875 Right 1209 00:46:03,966 --> 00:46:07,846 ... or consuming your content in some way, whether that's on Instagram or YouTube. 1210 00:46:07,946 --> 00:46:08,896 Yeah, it's like I have 1211 00:46:09,986 --> 00:46:11,586 thousands of friends online. 1212 00:46:11,646 --> 00:46:11,946 Yeah. 1213 00:46:11,956 --> 00:46:13,726 And it sounds really cheesy to say it like that. 1214 00:46:14,206 --> 00:46:17,646 But when I make a video and then read the comments section, I get to then 1215 00:46:18,166 --> 00:46:21,006 see what other people's perception of my thinking was. 1216 00:46:21,406 --> 00:46:21,746 Yeah. 1217 00:46:21,766 --> 00:46:24,076 And that makes me think of even more things, and 1218 00:46:25,326 --> 00:46:27,066 it all feeds itself in a way. 1219 00:46:27,226 --> 00:46:27,546 Yeah. 1220 00:46:27,606 --> 00:46:31,336 That's why you can't take it too seriously, because if I did take it too seriously, 1221 00:46:32,446 --> 00:46:34,186 all the comments online could get to you a little bit. 1222 00:46:34,206 --> 00:46:34,346 Yeah. 1223 00:46:34,366 --> 00:46:38,246 But I know I'm not taking it too seriously, so I'm pretty chilled out about it. 1224 00:46:38,276 --> 00:46:38,276 Yeah. 1225 00:46:38,466 --> 00:46:40,766 But yeah, the online community is huge. 1226 00:46:40,846 --> 00:46:41,146 I 1227 00:46:42,486 --> 00:46:46,326 can't believe the videos I've made have reached the amount of 1228 00:46:46,366 --> 00:46:47,066 people it's reached. 1229 00:46:47,246 --> 00:46:47,286 Yeah. 1230 00:46:47,326 --> 00:46:50,086 And it's wild to think about it, so I don't want to think about it too much because 1231 00:46:50,126 --> 00:46:50,766 it's kind of crazy. 1232 00:46:51,446 --> 00:46:52,106 Bit scary. 1233 00:46:52,166 --> 00:46:52,346 Yeah. 1234 00:46:54,186 --> 00:46:58,086 What do you think the key to keep enjoying what you do 1235 00:46:58,166 --> 00:46:58,566 is? 1236 00:47:00,346 --> 00:47:01,426 Understanding 1237 00:47:03,386 --> 00:47:05,666 where your own two feet are at any one time- 1238 00:47:05,706 --> 00:47:05,766 Mm 1239 00:47:05,786 --> 00:47:07,146 ... and just being present with it. 1240 00:47:08,086 --> 00:47:11,986 I think I'm lucky being in England and getting to visit London all the time, and 1241 00:47:12,026 --> 00:47:15,506 where I live is fantastic, so I'm not trying to escape 1242 00:47:15,546 --> 00:47:16,286 anything. 1243 00:47:17,746 --> 00:47:21,715 I read a book five, six years ago, seven, eight years ago, called "The Power of 1244 00:47:21,766 --> 00:47:24,426 Now" by Eckhart Tolle, and that book- 1245 00:47:24,886 --> 00:47:24,896 Mm 1246 00:47:24,905 --> 00:47:28,746 ... really changed my perspective on 1247 00:47:28,806 --> 00:47:31,586 what's happening around you. And essentially, 1248 00:47:32,226 --> 00:47:35,806 the past isn't real. There's no point in thinking about it. 1249 00:47:35,846 --> 00:47:38,926 The future also isn't real because it's not happened yet. 1250 00:47:38,946 --> 00:47:39,106 Mm. 1251 00:47:39,146 --> 00:47:42,266 And the only thing that exists is where we are right now. 1252 00:47:42,646 --> 00:47:45,706 I don't know if that sounds really obvious to say it like that, but this book 1253 00:47:45,766 --> 00:47:48,346 articulates it. I need to make a video about this, I think, but- 1254 00:47:48,486 --> 00:47:48,716 Yeah 1255 00:47:48,786 --> 00:47:52,706 ... this book articulates the present moment, and that present 1256 00:47:52,786 --> 00:47:55,766 moment is so aligned with photography because- 1257 00:47:55,806 --> 00:47:55,816 Yeah 1258 00:47:55,816 --> 00:47:57,446 ... you really are capturing a moment. 1259 00:47:58,206 --> 00:48:02,106 So enjoying photography is easy when I know how lucky 1260 00:48:02,116 --> 00:48:04,126 I am and how grateful I am to be where I am. 1261 00:48:04,186 --> 00:48:08,146 So when I go out in London, all I have to do is just appreciate being 1262 00:48:08,166 --> 00:48:08,526 in London. 1263 00:48:08,796 --> 00:48:08,826 Yeah. 1264 00:48:08,866 --> 00:48:10,206 And photography's fun. 1265 00:48:10,266 --> 00:48:10,426 Yeah. 1266 00:48:10,526 --> 00:48:14,166 I guess it's just personal perspective, just being 1267 00:48:14,206 --> 00:48:14,566 grateful- 1268 00:48:15,066 --> 00:48:15,186 Yeah 1269 00:48:15,196 --> 00:48:16,855 ... keeps me pretty happy. 1270 00:48:18,126 --> 00:48:22,056 I'm interested to know whether these experiences 1271 00:48:22,086 --> 00:48:25,666 that have come from photography, like teaching or 1272 00:48:25,706 --> 00:48:29,486 creating a book, is something you might want to do 1273 00:48:29,546 --> 00:48:33,106 again in the future. I know you said do a book every five years, 1274 00:48:33,186 --> 00:48:34,406 obviously passing comment. 1275 00:48:34,426 --> 00:48:35,326 Probably not, yeah. 1276 00:48:35,426 --> 00:48:39,416 Yeah. But is it something you think about 1277 00:48:39,446 --> 00:48:40,286 doing more of? 1278 00:48:40,346 --> 00:48:44,296 Yeah, definitely. I want to take as many pictures as I can as I go about 1279 00:48:44,326 --> 00:48:47,886 my life, but I think doing things with the pictures is also important- 1280 00:48:48,206 --> 00:48:48,216 Yeah 1281 00:48:48,216 --> 00:48:50,226 ... and enjoying the result as well. 1282 00:48:50,466 --> 00:48:54,146 I think a book, making zines, 1283 00:48:54,466 --> 00:48:57,476 prints, there's so much more in the world of photography- 1284 00:48:57,666 --> 00:48:57,676 Mm 1285 00:48:57,676 --> 00:48:59,136 ... I want to learn and understand. 1286 00:48:59,746 --> 00:49:03,546 And being here at the Leica HQ, diving into the darkroom was- 1287 00:49:03,566 --> 00:49:03,626 Yeah 1288 00:49:03,686 --> 00:49:06,166 ... just like real-life magic. That was fascinating. 1289 00:49:06,906 --> 00:49:10,606 I still feel like I'm so early at 1290 00:49:10,666 --> 00:49:12,226 this in my life. 1291 00:49:12,546 --> 00:49:12,586 Mm. 1292 00:49:13,754 --> 00:49:17,414 I don't have any statements or 1293 00:49:17,454 --> 00:49:21,444 anything correct to say. I'm just experiencing it and then sharing it on 1294 00:49:21,454 --> 00:49:22,254 YouTube, for example. 1295 00:49:22,294 --> 00:49:22,364 Yeah. 1296 00:49:23,174 --> 00:49:26,114 There's an infinite amount of things I want to do in the photography world. 1297 00:49:26,694 --> 00:49:30,404 And if teaching it to people that are interested is one of those things, 1298 00:49:30,454 --> 00:49:33,474 great. If that means more physical work out there, great. 1299 00:49:34,214 --> 00:49:36,494 But I'll just take it all as it comes. 1300 00:49:36,754 --> 00:49:36,794 Yeah. 1301 00:49:36,874 --> 00:49:37,274 I don't want to 1302 00:49:38,674 --> 00:49:39,774 stress about it too much. 1303 00:49:39,884 --> 00:49:39,884 Yeah. 1304 00:49:39,914 --> 00:49:41,314 Just want to enjoy taking pictures. 1305 00:49:41,514 --> 00:49:41,654 Yeah. 1306 00:49:42,514 --> 00:49:46,234 Think it's a great attitude. How do you continue to 1307 00:49:46,314 --> 00:49:49,154 evolve as a photographer, on that note? 1308 00:49:50,034 --> 00:49:53,184 It's a great question. How do you continue to evolve as a photographer? 1309 00:49:54,894 --> 00:49:58,514 I don't know, actually. I think continuing to have 1310 00:49:59,614 --> 00:50:00,903 the right people around you- 1311 00:50:01,054 --> 00:50:01,074 Yeah 1312 00:50:01,114 --> 00:50:04,514 ... and also taking inspiration from work that's been before. 1313 00:50:04,704 --> 00:50:04,874 Yeah. 1314 00:50:04,884 --> 00:50:08,834 I keep mentioning photo books, but without seeing what's possible, 1315 00:50:08,874 --> 00:50:11,914 like if I didn't see Matt Stuart's "All That Life Can Afford" book, I wouldn't know 1316 00:50:11,954 --> 00:50:12,754 what was possible- 1317 00:50:12,794 --> 00:50:13,134 Yeah 1318 00:50:13,144 --> 00:50:16,574 ... with street photography in London specifically. So, that opens your eye. 1319 00:50:16,934 --> 00:50:19,154 Films, music, being 1320 00:50:20,274 --> 00:50:22,474 inviting inspiration I think is important. 1321 00:50:23,024 --> 00:50:23,024 Yeah. 1322 00:50:23,754 --> 00:50:25,194 Definitely not being a know-it-all. 1323 00:50:25,814 --> 00:50:28,574 I will always listen to people's thoughts in the world of photography. 1324 00:50:30,274 --> 00:50:33,314 But yeah, evolving is just, I don't think you can intentionally do it. 1325 00:50:33,394 --> 00:50:33,454 Yeah. 1326 00:50:33,494 --> 00:50:36,234 It's like trying to figure out what your taste is. 1327 00:50:36,634 --> 00:50:36,674 Yeah. 1328 00:50:36,694 --> 00:50:38,493 You know, like trying to figure out how to improve your taste. 1329 00:50:38,654 --> 00:50:38,814 Yeah. 1330 00:50:39,074 --> 00:50:40,294 I don't think that's possible either. 1331 00:50:40,334 --> 00:50:43,974 I think you just have to live a life and hopefully develop an eye from that. 1332 00:50:44,054 --> 00:50:44,234 Yeah. 1333 00:50:45,414 --> 00:50:46,824 It's a hard question. 1334 00:50:46,954 --> 00:50:47,214 Yeah. 1335 00:50:48,624 --> 00:50:48,624 Mm. 1336 00:50:48,654 --> 00:50:50,914 Thank you so much for answering- 1337 00:50:51,434 --> 00:50:51,444 Yeah 1338 00:50:51,444 --> 00:50:53,364 ... the easy and the hard questions. 1339 00:50:54,664 --> 00:50:58,444 We always end the podcast with some quick-fire 1340 00:50:58,554 --> 00:50:59,114 questions- 1341 00:50:59,154 --> 00:50:59,164 Okay 1342 00:50:59,164 --> 00:51:00,213 ... which I'm going to ask you. 1343 00:51:00,254 --> 00:51:01,254 Let's do it. 1344 00:51:01,294 --> 00:51:05,094 From today onwards, you can only shoot with one aperture. What would it be? 1345 00:51:05,774 --> 00:51:06,054 F8. 1346 00:51:07,194 --> 00:51:07,794 That's horrible. 1347 00:51:08,294 --> 00:51:08,304 I love it. 1348 00:51:08,314 --> 00:51:10,554 Because I was shooting with the-- This isn't quick-fire, but I was shooting with 1349 00:51:10,594 --> 00:51:13,684 the Summer Looks, and I've been shooting at 1.4 a little bit over the last few days 1350 00:51:13,684 --> 00:51:17,204 and, oh, it's just beautiful. But I think F8 is probably the most 1351 00:51:17,214 --> 00:51:18,444 practical. Yeah. 1352 00:51:18,574 --> 00:51:21,993 I love it. If your camera could talk, what would it say about 1353 00:51:22,074 --> 00:51:22,694 you? 1354 00:51:22,704 --> 00:51:23,854 "Can I have a rest, please?" 1355 00:51:24,804 --> 00:51:25,494 "Give me a break." 1356 00:51:25,574 --> 00:51:26,954 Yeah. It'd be like, "Just put me down for a second." 1357 00:51:28,534 --> 00:51:30,994 Hopefully it'd say something positive like, "I'm having fun." 1358 00:51:32,414 --> 00:51:36,014 I love it. Which photograph of yours changed the way you see 1359 00:51:36,054 --> 00:51:36,774 photography? 1360 00:51:38,094 --> 00:51:39,774 Oh, that's impossible to answer. 1361 00:51:40,854 --> 00:51:41,614 Which photograph? 1362 00:51:42,534 --> 00:51:44,694 Just for the sake of answering, maybe one of the two photographs. 1363 00:51:44,794 --> 00:51:44,914 Yeah. 1364 00:51:45,094 --> 00:51:48,574 The photograph of the BMX on the bridge, because that made me think, "Wow, this 1365 00:51:48,614 --> 00:51:49,234 could be super fun." 1366 00:51:49,614 --> 00:51:49,694 Yeah. 1367 00:51:49,734 --> 00:51:53,034 And the street photograph of the hands because I was like, "Oh, I did it. 1368 00:51:53,094 --> 00:51:54,264 I did something quite fun." Yeah. 1369 00:51:54,354 --> 00:51:54,494 Yeah. 1370 00:51:55,714 --> 00:51:59,494 If you could go back to the first time you picked up a camera, what would you tell 1371 00:51:59,534 --> 00:52:00,094 yourself? 1372 00:52:01,334 --> 00:52:02,294 Oh, wow. 1373 00:52:04,734 --> 00:52:07,214 Oh, I wouldn't want to spook myself, so 1374 00:52:08,134 --> 00:52:11,994 I'm thinking of me in the garage when I was filming myself do a kickflip- 1375 00:52:12,154 --> 00:52:12,644 Yeah 1376 00:52:12,644 --> 00:52:15,813 ... when I got the camera for Christmas. I'd probably just leave myself be. 1377 00:52:15,874 --> 00:52:15,934 Yeah. 1378 00:52:15,964 --> 00:52:18,174 And I wouldn't want to interrupt what I was thinking. 1379 00:52:18,514 --> 00:52:18,904 Yeah. I like that answer. 1380 00:52:18,914 --> 00:52:21,094 Don't want to inject any external thoughts or anything. 1381 00:52:21,154 --> 00:52:21,753 I don't want to be like- 1382 00:52:21,824 --> 00:52:22,354 Yeah. Yeah 1383 00:52:22,364 --> 00:52:24,214 ... "Yeah, keep doing it, because one day you'll be on 'The Leica Podcast.'" 1384 00:52:24,294 --> 00:52:24,574 Yeah. Yeah. 1385 00:52:24,674 --> 00:52:26,554 I would've been like, "What?" Yeah. 1386 00:52:26,694 --> 00:52:30,304 I like that answer. That's cool. One final 1387 00:52:30,354 --> 00:52:33,974 question before we end. Do you have a 1388 00:52:33,994 --> 00:52:37,774 photographer on your radar or someone you love 1389 00:52:37,834 --> 00:52:40,594 and think needs more attention? 1390 00:52:41,954 --> 00:52:44,044 I don't know if he needs more attention, but I'm thinking of one of my- 1391 00:52:44,044 --> 00:52:44,684 Or deserves more attention, maybe 1392 00:52:44,684 --> 00:52:48,074 ... Yeah, one of my best friends, JP, I always hang out with him shooting. 1393 00:52:48,954 --> 00:52:51,014 He's a fantastic commercial photographer. 1394 00:52:51,024 --> 00:52:51,024 Mm. 1395 00:52:51,074 --> 00:52:54,374 His attitude and mindset and hanging around with people like that 1396 00:52:54,554 --> 00:52:57,934 really makes everyone's environment better. 1397 00:52:58,194 --> 00:52:58,334 Yeah. 1398 00:52:58,454 --> 00:53:02,254 I think I probably help him in ways he's not considered, and he helps me in 1399 00:53:02,294 --> 00:53:03,494 ways that he's not considered. 1400 00:53:04,674 --> 00:53:05,814 So your circle is important. 1401 00:53:06,204 --> 00:53:06,204 Yeah. 1402 00:53:06,234 --> 00:53:10,154 I'm also thankful for a group, community of street photographers in London. 1403 00:53:10,394 --> 00:53:10,494 Yeah. 1404 00:53:10,544 --> 00:53:14,474 And London is just a magical place generally, but I've bumped 1405 00:53:14,534 --> 00:53:15,974 into a lot of the same people. 1406 00:53:16,014 --> 00:53:16,294 Yeah. 1407 00:53:16,394 --> 00:53:20,294 I'm not going to start naming names because if I name six people and forget the 1408 00:53:20,314 --> 00:53:21,524 seventh- ... I'll feel bad. So, 1409 00:53:22,514 --> 00:53:23,664 the London street photography community. 1410 00:53:23,674 --> 00:53:25,574 We can put them, we can link them somewhere. 1411 00:53:25,584 --> 00:53:27,253 Yeah. It'd be good to have a list, actually. 1412 00:53:27,294 --> 00:53:27,563 We'll put their names up. Yeah, yeah. 1413 00:53:27,563 --> 00:53:27,844 Yeah. Cool. 1414 00:53:27,894 --> 00:53:29,264 Yeah. We can do that. That's really cool. 1415 00:53:29,264 --> 00:53:30,614 So yeah, there's a great community in London. 1416 00:53:30,634 --> 00:53:33,214 And then yeah, one of my best friends, JP, for sure. Yeah. 1417 00:53:33,674 --> 00:53:35,363 Yeah. Love it. Thank you so much- 1418 00:53:35,454 --> 00:53:35,514 Thank you 1419 00:53:35,524 --> 00:53:39,234 ... for joining us. It's been a complete pleasure talking to you, and 1420 00:53:39,274 --> 00:53:40,254 thank you for being here. 1421 00:53:40,554 --> 00:53:43,214 My pleasure. This place is just infinitely exciting. 1422 00:53:43,294 --> 00:53:45,074 So yeah, this has been super cool. Thanks. 1423 00:53:45,134 --> 00:53:45,514 Thanks.