1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,440 Carol Cox: When the stakes are high, 2 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:03,640 whether it's on stage or in a media 3 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,800 interview. How can you stay calm, 4 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:07,360 clear and confident? 5 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,640 My guest today is Jen Mueller, 6 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,240 a veteran sports broadcaster of the Seattle 7 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,160 Seahawks and the Seattle Mariners. 8 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,760 And she's giving us her tips on this episode 9 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:18,560 of the Speaking Your Brand podcast. 10 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,320 More and more women are making an impact by 11 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,040 starting businesses, running for office and 12 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:29,960 speaking up for what matters. 13 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,080 With my background as a TV political analyst, 14 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:34,640 entrepreneur, and speaker, 15 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,640 I interview and coach purpose driven women to 16 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,160 shape their brands, grow their companies, 17 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:43,000 and become recognized as influencers in their 18 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,200 field. This is speaking your brand, 19 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,560 your place to learn how to persuasively 20 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,840 communicate your message to your audience. 21 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:54,520 Hi there and welcome to the Speaking Your 22 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:55,920 Brand podcast. I'm your host, 23 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,360 Carol Cox. Have you ever had one of those 24 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,620 moments where all eyes are suddenly on you 25 00:01:01,940 --> 00:01:04,220 and your brain decides now is the perfect 26 00:01:04,260 --> 00:01:07,060 time to forget every word you were going to 27 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:09,500 say. Whether it's a big presentation, 28 00:01:09,540 --> 00:01:11,940 a media interview, or even a meeting. 29 00:01:12,140 --> 00:01:14,740 How we communicate under pressure can make or 30 00:01:14,740 --> 00:01:17,780 break how we're perceived as leaders. 31 00:01:18,060 --> 00:01:20,020 That's why I'm so excited about today's 32 00:01:20,020 --> 00:01:22,020 conversation with my guest, 33 00:01:22,060 --> 00:01:24,900 Jen Mueller. Jen is a veteran sports 34 00:01:24,940 --> 00:01:27,540 broadcaster on the sidelines for the Seattle 35 00:01:27,580 --> 00:01:29,740 Seahawks and the Seattle Mariners, 36 00:01:29,940 --> 00:01:33,140 and she spent over 25 years covering some of 37 00:01:33,140 --> 00:01:35,700 the highest stakes environments imaginable. 38 00:01:35,940 --> 00:01:38,460 She's also the founder of Talk Sporty to Me. 39 00:01:38,500 --> 00:01:40,300 I love that name, where she teaches 40 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:42,140 professionals how to communicate with 41 00:01:42,140 --> 00:01:45,460 confidence, clarity and composure no matter 42 00:01:45,460 --> 00:01:48,060 the situation. In our conversation, 43 00:01:48,060 --> 00:01:50,220 Jen and I talk about what it means to be a 44 00:01:50,220 --> 00:01:53,300 clutch communicator, how to use those high 45 00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:56,460 pressure moments to showcase your expertise 46 00:01:56,460 --> 00:01:57,940 instead of hiding from them. 47 00:01:58,260 --> 00:02:01,120 How to prepare for spontaneity. 48 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,600 Yes, that is possible. 49 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,800 And how small everyday interactions can train 50 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,440 you for the big stage. 51 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,720 Now, I've also spent the past 20 years on the 52 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,480 TV news during election seasons, 53 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,000 so I know what it's like to be live and not 54 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,280 know what's going to happen next or what 55 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,280 you'll be asked. And I share in this episode 56 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,040 a story of what happened when I was asked a 57 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,680 question and I just totally froze, 58 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:26,840 but how I handled it. 59 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,160 So if you've ever found yourself thinking, 60 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:30,720 I wish I could stay calm, 61 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,200 clear and confident when the heat is on. 62 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,400 This episode is for you! 63 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,520 Jen, welcome to the Speaking Your Brand 64 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:38,280 podcast. 65 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,320 Jen Mueller: Thank you. This is going to be a fun 66 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,480 conversation. I like it when two media 67 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,840 members get together because I feel like I'm 68 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,400 a little less on the hot seat, 69 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,520 you know? Okay, like, you get me. 70 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,120 Carol Cox: I get you. And trust me, 71 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,160 I have my own stories to share about things 72 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:54,640 because those are the ones that stick in your 73 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:55,560 mind, right? 74 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,160 Jen Mueller: Yes. Yes they are. 75 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,700 Carol Cox: All right. So you have you spent a lot of 76 00:03:00,700 --> 00:03:02,500 years reporting from the sidelines? 77 00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:05,020 First tell me, how did that even come about? 78 00:03:05,060 --> 00:03:07,260 Like, how do you get to be a reporter on the 79 00:03:07,260 --> 00:03:10,460 sidelines of these big professional sports? 80 00:03:10,620 --> 00:03:12,420 Jen Mueller: You know what? Mine is a little bit of an 81 00:03:12,420 --> 00:03:14,500 unconventional path, and I call them bubble 82 00:03:14,540 --> 00:03:16,660 gum moments. All of the little things that I 83 00:03:16,660 --> 00:03:19,700 was doing in the dark behind the scenes to 84 00:03:19,780 --> 00:03:21,940 eventually be considered on air talent. 85 00:03:21,940 --> 00:03:23,700 I was never hired to be, 86 00:03:23,940 --> 00:03:27,300 um, on TV. I never applied for the job of the 87 00:03:27,300 --> 00:03:28,980 sideline reporter for the Seahawks. 88 00:03:29,220 --> 00:03:31,860 What I am by heart, by nature, 89 00:03:31,860 --> 00:03:33,980 and I think at heart is a producer. 90 00:03:33,980 --> 00:03:36,580 So I spent a lot of years watching people on 91 00:03:36,580 --> 00:03:38,940 TV and writing for people on TV, 92 00:03:39,180 --> 00:03:40,700 developing my own style, 93 00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:42,460 learning by watching them, 94 00:03:42,460 --> 00:03:45,060 and then just positioning myself as somebody 95 00:03:45,060 --> 00:03:47,780 who could step in and do the job of the on 96 00:03:47,780 --> 00:03:48,580 air part. 97 00:03:49,260 --> 00:03:51,260 Carol Cox: All right. So then so you get this, 98 00:03:51,460 --> 00:03:53,940 this opportunity to be on the sidelines to 99 00:03:53,980 --> 00:03:56,700 report what's going on in the games. 100 00:03:56,700 --> 00:03:59,680 So what what is that like to be there on the 101 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,360 silence. Obviously, there's a lot going on, 102 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,000 right? The game's going on. All the players 103 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,800 are there, the coaches, the people in the 104 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,440 stands. Like, tell us what that environment 105 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:07,040 is like. 106 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,640 Jen Mueller: An NFL game is electric. 107 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,280 It does not matter where you are now. 108 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,480 They happen to be just a little bit more 109 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,960 electric in Seattle because the crowd at 110 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,720 Lumen Field is unreal, 111 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,160 but it is sensory overload from being so 112 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,880 close to the action and seeing how physically 113 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,400 imposing and strong and powerful these guys 114 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,200 are to hearing everything from the stands. 115 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,680 And the thing about being on the sidelines, 116 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,800 I love watching the game there. 117 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,280 You can only see a very small part of the 118 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:40,040 game, and that's where like the communication 119 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,280 and the questions and how you piece together 120 00:04:42,280 --> 00:04:44,840 the story of the game is very different than 121 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:47,560 if you were watching from home or watching 122 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,280 from the press box, or even from the 200 123 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,280 level in a stadium, because you've got a 124 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:54,000 different vantage point than I do. 125 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,320 And so I constantly feel like I am stumped on 126 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,270 the sidelines and am trying to overcome that 127 00:05:01,270 --> 00:05:03,110 in the conversations I have during 128 00:05:03,110 --> 00:05:03,790 interviews. 129 00:05:04,270 --> 00:05:06,550 Carol Cox: So then tell us what it's like to do an 130 00:05:06,550 --> 00:05:07,590 interview then. 131 00:05:07,590 --> 00:05:09,230 So obviously you have to kind of tune out 132 00:05:09,230 --> 00:05:11,390 everything else that's going on around you to 133 00:05:11,430 --> 00:05:13,670 focus on the person that you're interviewing 134 00:05:13,670 --> 00:05:16,230 now. Do you already have some questions that 135 00:05:16,230 --> 00:05:17,870 you're running in your mind beforehand? Like, 136 00:05:17,870 --> 00:05:19,310 tell us a little bit about the prep and then 137 00:05:19,310 --> 00:05:20,790 what happens during the interview. 138 00:05:20,990 --> 00:05:23,550 Jen Mueller: Yeah, I should have grabbed my pages of notes 139 00:05:23,550 --> 00:05:25,510 that I take during an NFL game, 140 00:05:25,510 --> 00:05:27,430 because when you're on the sidelines, you're 141 00:05:27,430 --> 00:05:28,550 kind of on your own. 142 00:05:28,550 --> 00:05:30,030 I've got my crew in the booth, 143 00:05:30,030 --> 00:05:32,270 but they are dealing with their own, 144 00:05:32,390 --> 00:05:34,550 you know, game calls, so they don't have time 145 00:05:34,550 --> 00:05:36,950 to look things up just for me. 146 00:05:36,950 --> 00:05:40,590 So I keep just a running tally of both plays 147 00:05:40,590 --> 00:05:43,790 and questions, and I will start writing down 148 00:05:43,790 --> 00:05:46,910 questions I might want to ask from the very 149 00:05:46,910 --> 00:05:47,950 first play of the game, 150 00:05:47,950 --> 00:05:49,790 because you don't know what's going to end up 151 00:05:49,790 --> 00:05:51,430 to be most important at the end. 152 00:05:51,750 --> 00:05:55,190 The other part of my job is the expectation 153 00:05:55,190 --> 00:05:57,390 is that I will get between 4 and 6 154 00:05:57,390 --> 00:05:59,890 interviews, Use regardless of the outcome. 155 00:06:00,170 --> 00:06:02,210 If you need 4 to 6 interviews, 156 00:06:02,210 --> 00:06:04,330 you can't be asking the same four questions 157 00:06:04,330 --> 00:06:06,170 over and over and over again. 158 00:06:06,210 --> 00:06:08,210 You've got to tailor those questions to the 159 00:06:08,210 --> 00:06:10,290 person, to the position that they play, 160 00:06:10,290 --> 00:06:12,130 to the time of the game that you're talking 161 00:06:12,130 --> 00:06:14,890 about. And so I constantly have kind of these 162 00:06:14,890 --> 00:06:17,570 running lists and various points in the game 163 00:06:17,570 --> 00:06:20,050 that I'll start compiling that so that I can 164 00:06:20,050 --> 00:06:22,970 be very concise and precise when I'm doing 165 00:06:22,970 --> 00:06:23,970 those interviews. 166 00:06:24,730 --> 00:06:26,650 Carol Cox: And also, I assume you want the interviews to 167 00:06:26,690 --> 00:06:28,890 be interesting for the the people who are 168 00:06:28,890 --> 00:06:30,930 watching. You can't just like, like boring, 169 00:06:30,930 --> 00:06:33,170 dull questions that everyone always asks. 170 00:06:33,370 --> 00:06:35,730 Jen Mueller: Well, and see, you just hit the nail on the 171 00:06:35,730 --> 00:06:38,610 head right there. If I can guess what your 172 00:06:38,610 --> 00:06:40,170 post-game question will be. 173 00:06:40,210 --> 00:06:42,130 And I'm sitting on my couch and I only 174 00:06:42,130 --> 00:06:43,930 watched five minutes of that game. 175 00:06:44,330 --> 00:06:47,330 There was probably a better way to ask that 176 00:06:47,330 --> 00:06:49,850 question. And one of the things I realized 177 00:06:49,850 --> 00:06:51,570 very early on, and I know that you'll 178 00:06:51,570 --> 00:06:52,730 appreciate this. 179 00:06:53,090 --> 00:06:56,170 Our questions are part of the story as 180 00:06:56,170 --> 00:06:59,830 compared to my counterparts who work in print 181 00:06:59,830 --> 00:07:01,830 media, right? Who work for magazines, 182 00:07:01,830 --> 00:07:03,470 who work for the digital side, 183 00:07:03,550 --> 00:07:04,990 who work for newspapers. 184 00:07:05,150 --> 00:07:07,070 They can ask whatever they question they 185 00:07:07,070 --> 00:07:10,190 want, and their audience never hears it. 186 00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:13,470 But my audience always hears the question 187 00:07:13,470 --> 00:07:16,590 that I ask. And so it's my job to make that 188 00:07:16,590 --> 00:07:20,390 question interesting, but also to make sure 189 00:07:20,390 --> 00:07:23,030 that I am drawing out the very best piece of 190 00:07:23,030 --> 00:07:26,870 information without tap dancing around and 191 00:07:26,870 --> 00:07:29,350 taking, you know, forever to get to the heart 192 00:07:29,350 --> 00:07:31,310 of what it is that we're talking about. 193 00:07:31,950 --> 00:07:34,550 Carol Cox: Yeah, I can imagine that is it's a delicate 194 00:07:34,550 --> 00:07:36,830 dance, and I assume that you got better at it 195 00:07:36,830 --> 00:07:38,270 as you went along. 196 00:07:38,470 --> 00:07:40,270 You know, the first few games versus after 197 00:07:40,270 --> 00:07:41,670 you've been doing it for years. 198 00:07:41,910 --> 00:07:43,190 Jen Mueller: Yeah, I've done this now. 199 00:07:43,190 --> 00:07:45,590 I've been in sports broadcasting 25 years, 200 00:07:45,590 --> 00:07:47,910 17 on the Seahawks sidelines. 201 00:07:48,070 --> 00:07:50,150 And you know, they don't really teach you how 202 00:07:50,150 --> 00:07:52,110 to ask questions in college. 203 00:07:52,230 --> 00:07:53,830 You know, they they teach you the very 204 00:07:53,830 --> 00:07:56,310 technical aspects of broadcasting. 205 00:07:56,310 --> 00:07:57,750 And that's very helpful. 206 00:07:58,050 --> 00:08:00,330 But if you are sent out there to ask 207 00:08:00,330 --> 00:08:04,130 questions and to do an interview initially, 208 00:08:04,130 --> 00:08:05,850 your standard is going to be too low. 209 00:08:05,970 --> 00:08:08,370 In fact, I think a lot of standards are too 210 00:08:08,370 --> 00:08:10,170 low when it comes to asking questions, 211 00:08:10,170 --> 00:08:12,930 because we assume that if we get an answer 212 00:08:13,050 --> 00:08:14,610 that it was a good enough question. 213 00:08:14,850 --> 00:08:18,090 And that's not true, because most people are 214 00:08:18,130 --> 00:08:20,090 kind enough and considerate enough to give 215 00:08:20,090 --> 00:08:22,290 you an answer, whether it's a good one, 216 00:08:22,290 --> 00:08:23,930 the right one, the one that you were looking 217 00:08:23,930 --> 00:08:26,570 for, that is an entirely different story. 218 00:08:26,770 --> 00:08:29,330 And so what I have gotten very good at is 219 00:08:29,330 --> 00:08:32,050 asking very specific questions. 220 00:08:32,050 --> 00:08:34,650 There is only one answer to that question. 221 00:08:34,650 --> 00:08:37,690 And my athletes learn to trust me because 222 00:08:37,690 --> 00:08:40,010 they know they are the ones that have that 223 00:08:40,010 --> 00:08:41,850 answer. Right. I'm not trying to play this 224 00:08:41,890 --> 00:08:43,850 like gotcha game. 225 00:08:44,050 --> 00:08:46,330 I just want you to drop your guard and tell 226 00:08:46,330 --> 00:08:49,330 me what happened on that play in the third 227 00:08:49,330 --> 00:08:52,050 quarter, where you allowed them to convert on 228 00:08:52,050 --> 00:08:53,010 third and 12. 229 00:08:53,890 --> 00:08:56,010 Carol Cox: I love it. Now, I grew up watching football 230 00:08:56,010 --> 00:08:57,870 because my dad and I, we would watch it, 231 00:08:57,910 --> 00:08:59,910 you know, on the weekends. So I loved it. 232 00:08:59,910 --> 00:09:01,830 I don't watch it as much as as I used to, 233 00:09:01,870 --> 00:09:03,510 but it is a lot of fun. 234 00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:04,750 So that is so cool. 235 00:09:04,750 --> 00:09:06,950 I have not been into an NFL game ever in my 236 00:09:06,950 --> 00:09:08,750 life, and that is something that's on my list 237 00:09:08,750 --> 00:09:10,750 because I know how what an incredible 238 00:09:10,750 --> 00:09:11,750 experience it would be. 239 00:09:12,030 --> 00:09:14,670 Jen Mueller: It really is like you'll be talking about it 240 00:09:14,670 --> 00:09:18,590 for forever because every sporting event is 241 00:09:18,590 --> 00:09:19,710 an event, right? 242 00:09:19,710 --> 00:09:21,390 There's food, there's entertainment, there's 243 00:09:21,390 --> 00:09:23,110 people, there's a social aspect. 244 00:09:23,110 --> 00:09:25,110 So whether you remember the details of the 245 00:09:25,110 --> 00:09:28,510 game or not, boy, are there so many talking 246 00:09:28,510 --> 00:09:30,070 points off of an NFL game. 247 00:09:30,790 --> 00:09:32,910 Carol Cox: All right, Jen, let's talk about this idea of 248 00:09:32,950 --> 00:09:34,510 a clutch communicator. 249 00:09:34,510 --> 00:09:36,750 This is a phrase that you brought to me for 250 00:09:36,750 --> 00:09:38,550 this interview. So what does that mean to be 251 00:09:38,550 --> 00:09:41,110 a clutch communicator and why is that 252 00:09:41,110 --> 00:09:43,150 important not only for reporters, 253 00:09:43,190 --> 00:09:44,710 you know, on the sidelines or wherever they 254 00:09:44,710 --> 00:09:46,350 happen to be, but for those of us who are 255 00:09:46,350 --> 00:09:48,230 just doing presentations and panels and 256 00:09:48,230 --> 00:09:49,470 podcast interviews. 257 00:09:49,630 --> 00:09:52,670 Jen Mueller: Yeah, it's knowing that you are prepared for 258 00:09:52,670 --> 00:09:56,070 any moment and that the uncertainty is 259 00:09:56,290 --> 00:09:59,610 Minimized by the confidence you have in your 260 00:09:59,610 --> 00:10:01,850 skills, right? Every time we have a 261 00:10:01,850 --> 00:10:04,410 conversation or we ask a question, 262 00:10:04,610 --> 00:10:07,170 we're really leaving things up to chance. 263 00:10:07,410 --> 00:10:09,410 I might think I know the answer, 264 00:10:09,410 --> 00:10:11,330 and I have a pretty good idea of how a 265 00:10:11,370 --> 00:10:13,010 conversation is going to flow. 266 00:10:13,210 --> 00:10:14,890 But in the back of my mind, 267 00:10:14,890 --> 00:10:17,290 before I have entered this conversation, 268 00:10:17,290 --> 00:10:19,890 whether it is an interview that I am 269 00:10:19,890 --> 00:10:22,890 conducting or where I'm in this position, 270 00:10:23,210 --> 00:10:27,810 I know a few things that I can do to minimize 271 00:10:27,850 --> 00:10:31,130 my doubts and like the self-consciousness 272 00:10:31,130 --> 00:10:33,450 that I might have, I know how to pivot out of 273 00:10:33,490 --> 00:10:35,250 a of a challenging situation, 274 00:10:35,250 --> 00:10:37,530 or when I've forgotten a word or lose my 275 00:10:37,530 --> 00:10:38,570 train of thought. 276 00:10:38,570 --> 00:10:41,090 And it's those sorts of things that make you 277 00:10:41,130 --> 00:10:43,690 clutch. It's not saying the right thing every 278 00:10:43,730 --> 00:10:46,410 time. It's knowing that you have something to 279 00:10:46,450 --> 00:10:48,730 say and being confident enough in that 280 00:10:48,730 --> 00:10:49,450 ability. 281 00:10:50,410 --> 00:10:52,730 Carol Cox: Now, Jen, I know that a lot of the women that 282 00:10:52,730 --> 00:10:54,530 we work with and a lot of women who listen to 283 00:10:54,570 --> 00:10:57,430 this podcast, they like to be very prepared, 284 00:10:57,430 --> 00:10:59,270 whether it again is for a presentation, 285 00:10:59,310 --> 00:11:01,270 a talk. That they're delivering or a podcast 286 00:11:01,270 --> 00:11:02,750 interview. And that is great. 287 00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:04,190 Obviously we want to be prepared. 288 00:11:04,190 --> 00:11:06,950 We want to to make sure that we are providing 289 00:11:06,950 --> 00:11:09,870 value to whoever is listening to us. 290 00:11:09,870 --> 00:11:12,670 But I feel like there are also a lot of us 291 00:11:12,670 --> 00:11:16,910 who get very worried about getting a question 292 00:11:16,910 --> 00:11:18,910 that they haven't prepared for, 293 00:11:19,110 --> 00:11:21,950 and they almost they sort themselves out with 294 00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:23,590 thinking that that's going to happen whether 295 00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:25,510 it happens or not. So can you tell us a 296 00:11:25,510 --> 00:11:27,550 little bit about what is going on there and 297 00:11:27,550 --> 00:11:29,750 how how can we help ourselves with that? 298 00:11:30,070 --> 00:11:31,550 Jen Mueller: Well, you've got to remember that you're the 299 00:11:31,550 --> 00:11:33,950 expert. The reason that you are fielding that 300 00:11:33,950 --> 00:11:37,230 question is because you have some version of 301 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:39,350 the answer. Most of the time, 302 00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:42,750 people are not looking for the hard, 303 00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:45,670 fast, truest answer that you could possibly 304 00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:48,990 give. What they're looking for is insight and 305 00:11:48,990 --> 00:11:51,910 perspective. So you already have that. 306 00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:55,750 If you try to psych yourself out by thinking 307 00:11:55,750 --> 00:11:58,370 about all the different ways you are not the 308 00:11:58,370 --> 00:12:00,330 right person to be answering this question, 309 00:12:00,330 --> 00:12:01,410 then try this. 310 00:12:01,850 --> 00:12:07,010 In my experience now, I can't dispute that 311 00:12:07,010 --> 00:12:08,730 because in your experience, 312 00:12:08,730 --> 00:12:10,210 whether that is 25 years, 313 00:12:10,210 --> 00:12:12,570 two years, you know, one month on this 314 00:12:12,570 --> 00:12:15,410 project, six months is the CEO. 315 00:12:15,690 --> 00:12:17,130 That's your experience. 316 00:12:17,130 --> 00:12:19,810 And now we have framed this in a way where, 317 00:12:20,090 --> 00:12:23,250 okay, I am seeing you as the expert and you 318 00:12:23,290 --> 00:12:26,010 are giving me insight and perspective based 319 00:12:26,010 --> 00:12:27,490 on that experience. 320 00:12:28,290 --> 00:12:30,450 Carol Cox: Right? Like I as I say, 321 00:12:30,490 --> 00:12:32,170 AI is not the ultimate expert. 322 00:12:32,170 --> 00:12:33,290 It can tell you. 323 00:12:33,410 --> 00:12:34,610 Google search used to. 324 00:12:34,650 --> 00:12:37,170 Now you know, chatbots can tell you anything 325 00:12:37,170 --> 00:12:38,450 you want to know about. 326 00:12:38,450 --> 00:12:40,570 Anything you ask, whether it hallucinates or 327 00:12:40,570 --> 00:12:42,050 not is another. You know, 328 00:12:42,050 --> 00:12:43,410 we'll put that to the side. 329 00:12:43,410 --> 00:12:45,730 But to your point, your audiences want to 330 00:12:45,770 --> 00:12:47,570 know, well, how did you experience that? 331 00:12:47,610 --> 00:12:49,210 What did you learn from that? 332 00:12:49,250 --> 00:12:51,010 What did you what have you gained? 333 00:12:51,010 --> 00:12:52,650 What are all these lessons and insights and 334 00:12:52,650 --> 00:12:54,450 perspectives you've gained because of this 335 00:12:54,450 --> 00:12:57,080 work that you've been doing for however many 336 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,600 years. Not like reciting off of a dictionary 337 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:00,760 or encyclopedia. 338 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,440 All the facts that someone could learn about 339 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,640 whatever the topic is. 340 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,000 Jen Mueller: And it's okay to ask a clarifying question, 341 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,040 right? I mean, you don't want to ask a 342 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:11,360 question to every question, 343 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:12,960 right? That gets a little bit tedious, 344 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,400 but it's okay to say, hey, 345 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,560 why do you ask? I want to make sure I give 346 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:19,440 you the best possible answer. 347 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,040 Or when people say something like, 348 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,400 hey Jen, tell me how you got to where you are 349 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,120 in your career. My first question back to 350 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,840 them will be, what specific part would you 351 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,920 like to know about, or what would be most 352 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,840 helpful for you to hear? 353 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,840 Now, I can be confident that I am giving you 354 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,520 the best possible answer. 355 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,320 It's okay to do that. The guys do that in the 356 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,000 locker room. To me, sometimes if I say 357 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,160 something that is slightly too general, 358 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,000 they'll say, oh, did you mean on that drive 359 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,520 in the third quarter? Yep. 360 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:51,920 That's exactly what I meant. 361 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,520 Nobody thinks twice about that. 362 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,360 We're just having the conversation. 363 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:55,420 Station. 364 00:13:56,620 --> 00:14:00,020 Carol Cox: Yes. Yeah. Because and it's thinking of it as 365 00:14:00,020 --> 00:14:02,340 a conversation. I like to say that even 366 00:14:02,340 --> 00:14:04,060 public speaking, even when you're speaking 367 00:14:04,060 --> 00:14:05,500 from a stage, I liken it, 368 00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:07,540 you're still having a conversation with the 369 00:14:07,540 --> 00:14:08,900 audience. Now, the audience is not 370 00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:11,820 necessarily talking back to you every minute 371 00:14:11,860 --> 00:14:13,740 like you would in a regular conversation, but 372 00:14:13,740 --> 00:14:15,980 you're still sensing their energy. 373 00:14:16,020 --> 00:14:17,580 Where are they getting you? Where are they 374 00:14:17,580 --> 00:14:19,500 maybe a little bit lost or a little bit 375 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:22,580 confused, and then adjusting as needed based 376 00:14:22,580 --> 00:14:23,860 on what you're getting back from the 377 00:14:23,860 --> 00:14:24,660 audience? 378 00:14:24,660 --> 00:14:26,660 Jen Mueller: Yeah. And it's trusting yourself in 379 00:14:26,660 --> 00:14:28,020 interactions. Right. 380 00:14:28,060 --> 00:14:29,940 So if it goes back to your original question, 381 00:14:29,940 --> 00:14:32,060 if you can trust yourself to make small talk 382 00:14:32,060 --> 00:14:34,580 with a stranger, you can trust yourself to 383 00:14:34,620 --> 00:14:36,460 answer questions from an audience. 384 00:14:36,980 --> 00:14:38,260 Carol Cox: Yes, I love that. 385 00:14:38,460 --> 00:14:40,300 Now, Jen, you talk about this idea of 386 00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:41,980 asserting your presence. 387 00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:43,780 Can you tell me what does that mean? 388 00:14:43,820 --> 00:14:45,500 Like what does it mean to assert your 389 00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:48,020 presence? And how has that shown up for you? 390 00:14:48,740 --> 00:14:50,700 Jen Mueller: When I first got into sports, 391 00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:54,300 they were, let's say, allowing women to work 392 00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:55,720 in sports broadcasting, 393 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,840 but they weren't really encouraging or 394 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,240 supporting. They really didn't know how to to 395 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,480 do that. And so it was up to me to grab those 396 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:05,720 really small moments. 397 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,640 I knew that I wasn't going to get an hour to 398 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,120 make a great impression. 399 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,720 I was going to be able to show up to a press 400 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,280 conference and ask one question. 401 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,200 Maybe it was just sitting in the press 402 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,720 conference was my way of being present and 403 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,720 asserting my presence. 404 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,120 And we overlook these little moments all the 405 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,240 time throughout the day. But I would show up 406 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,240 and I would make sure that I had on a 407 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,200 different color blazer that day. 408 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:35,600 Right? So instead of wearing black and 409 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,480 everybody's wearing black, I've got a teal 410 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,040 green blazer on so that when my hand goes up, 411 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,320 I'm the one that is going to get called on 412 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:43,480 when I get called on. 413 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,880 I've got the one question that it is that I 414 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,640 wanted to ask, and I will deliver that with 415 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,880 precision and with a confidence in my tone 416 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,600 that forces you to think, 417 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,660 oh, that was a good question. 418 00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:58,700 Or ah, she was prepared for that moment. 419 00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:01,580 And it's not about how many words you say, 420 00:16:01,780 --> 00:16:05,460 it's about how you choose to show up and how 421 00:16:05,460 --> 00:16:07,940 consistent you are with showing up. 422 00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:10,500 People underestimate that part of it too, 423 00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:12,860 right? If you were in a space where you were 424 00:16:12,860 --> 00:16:14,460 seeing the same people all the time, 425 00:16:14,460 --> 00:16:17,420 this is a huge advantage in how you want to 426 00:16:17,460 --> 00:16:19,300 show up and assert your presence, 427 00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:21,860 whether that is with a smile squaring your 428 00:16:21,860 --> 00:16:23,940 shoulders before you walk in the room, 429 00:16:23,980 --> 00:16:27,260 being very precise in how you greet somebody 430 00:16:27,260 --> 00:16:28,820 or engage in small talk, 431 00:16:28,980 --> 00:16:32,260 and just the way that you show up that is 432 00:16:32,260 --> 00:16:33,580 asserting your presence. 433 00:16:34,220 --> 00:16:37,380 Carol Cox: What would you say to listeners who are like, 434 00:16:37,380 --> 00:16:39,860 well, I don't really feel like I have a very 435 00:16:39,860 --> 00:16:41,980 assertive presence. You know, my personality 436 00:16:42,020 --> 00:16:44,540 tends to be a little bit on the shyer side. 437 00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:48,140 I don't really I don't have a big voice or, 438 00:16:48,260 --> 00:16:50,660 you know, I don't really like taking up a lot 439 00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:52,620 of space, but they still enjoy speaking. 440 00:16:53,340 --> 00:16:55,040 What are some strategies or tips that could 441 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:55,640 help them. 442 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,280 Jen Mueller: It isn't about being somebody that you're 443 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,480 not. It's about maximizing where you see your 444 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,880 strengths, right? And maybe starting with the 445 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,400 smallest like measure of success to build 446 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:10,680 your confidence in that. 447 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,280 So my smallest measure of success every time 448 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,040 I walk into a locker room is how many guys 449 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,880 say hello. And it's always my goal to get 450 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,160 five hellos when I walk into a locker room or 451 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,640 clubhouse. Now, I am a typically very 452 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,200 outgoing personality. 453 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,720 You put me in a locker room with 60 plus 454 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,520 guys, all of whom are bigger, 455 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,240 faster, stronger, some of them louder and 456 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,320 more boisterous. Boisterous than I am. 457 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:37,560 And that's enough to make me go, 458 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,800 oh my gosh, what am I doing here some days? 459 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,160 You know, like the days that you're just not 460 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,680 feeling it. And so if I've got a really small 461 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,280 measure of success and all I have to do is 462 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,800 say hi back, I can do that. 463 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,400 And that is showing up. 464 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,960 Everybody can say hi or hello. 465 00:17:54,460 --> 00:17:56,660 We skip over it a lot of times when we're too 466 00:17:56,660 --> 00:17:58,260 busy, which is why it's a win. 467 00:17:58,460 --> 00:18:00,700 But start with something like that. 468 00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:02,340 Just smile at somebody. 469 00:18:02,340 --> 00:18:06,100 You would be shocked at how far smile goes. 470 00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:08,980 And I know because I get feedback from that 471 00:18:08,980 --> 00:18:11,460 all the time from guys in the locker room. 472 00:18:11,540 --> 00:18:13,340 But we skip past that in business all the 473 00:18:13,340 --> 00:18:15,260 time because we take it for granted or we're 474 00:18:15,260 --> 00:18:16,500 not tracking it. 475 00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:18,660 If you start tracking those things, 476 00:18:18,660 --> 00:18:21,220 you would be surprised at just how you were 477 00:18:21,220 --> 00:18:24,260 showing up or how you can use those moments 478 00:18:24,260 --> 00:18:25,980 to show up even better. 479 00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:30,780 Carol Cox: Jen, how have you handled any sexism that has 480 00:18:30,780 --> 00:18:33,020 come up and not necessarily directly with 481 00:18:33,020 --> 00:18:34,700 people you have interacted with, 482 00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:36,700 but maybe even online? 483 00:18:36,900 --> 00:18:39,180 I remember when I've been doing election 484 00:18:39,180 --> 00:18:41,300 coverage on the news for a long time, 485 00:18:41,540 --> 00:18:43,580 and when this was during in the during the 486 00:18:43,580 --> 00:18:46,340 2016 election cycle, which we know was the 487 00:18:46,340 --> 00:18:48,420 start of very unusual politics. 488 00:18:48,420 --> 00:18:50,700 And so at the time, the news station would 489 00:18:50,940 --> 00:18:53,540 livestream what the news segments to their 490 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,640 Facebook page. That was really big at the 491 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,280 time. Facebook's would be their Facebook 492 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,680 Live, and of course all the comments would 493 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,000 come in. There are no comments of substance, 494 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,600 but their comments about me being a woman. 495 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,280 So I just ignored them because I'm like, 496 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:07,800 whatever. I don't know these people and I'm 497 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,680 not going to read the comments, 498 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,240 but I'm just curious, have you what have you 499 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,360 experienced and how have you handled it? 500 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,800 Jen Mueller: I have experienced various forms of that over 501 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,920 the years. Again, when you're a woman in an 502 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,880 NFL locker room 30 years ago, 503 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,160 that is a very different experience than 504 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:26,480 being in there today. 505 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,680 For a long time I ignored the comments, 506 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,720 and I have worked with some really awesome 507 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,040 people who came to my defense, 508 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,760 or guys who have been awesome to work with. 509 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,440 That helped build my credibility and my 510 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,400 reputation among the fans. 511 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,680 I did not engage with most of those people 512 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,120 online for years. 513 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:48,680 It has only been in the last 3 to 4 years 514 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,720 where I feel comfortable enough not only with 515 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,620 my position as I've got enough experience 516 00:19:55,620 --> 00:19:59,460 under my belt, but also I am comfortable with 517 00:19:59,460 --> 00:20:01,020 my voice in this space. 518 00:20:01,220 --> 00:20:03,100 I'm comfortable with saying, 519 00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:06,940 I don't like to hear every man talk about 520 00:20:06,940 --> 00:20:09,020 sports, like it's okay if you don't want 521 00:20:09,020 --> 00:20:10,300 women to talk about sports, 522 00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:12,300 but you make the assumption, I want every man 523 00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:13,540 to talk about sports. 524 00:20:13,820 --> 00:20:15,780 That's not necessarily true either. 525 00:20:15,820 --> 00:20:18,580 Now, that's about as combative as I will get, 526 00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:20,420 and I will just kind of point things out 527 00:20:20,460 --> 00:20:22,980 gently. Right. The assumptions that get made, 528 00:20:23,380 --> 00:20:25,420 um, I do call people out, 529 00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:29,620 but mostly because it's harmful to other 530 00:20:29,620 --> 00:20:31,060 women in the industry, 531 00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:32,980 right? Whether I can take it or not is 532 00:20:32,980 --> 00:20:35,300 irrelevant, but it's harmful to other people 533 00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:37,380 that I work with. And so now, 534 00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:39,940 being at this stage of my career in my life, 535 00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:41,900 I feel like it's easier to speak up for 536 00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:43,500 people and to just kind of point out, 537 00:20:43,540 --> 00:20:45,180 hey, maybe you didn't think about it from 538 00:20:45,180 --> 00:20:46,820 this point of view. Uh, 539 00:20:46,820 --> 00:20:48,620 and I'll pull back the curtain as much as I 540 00:20:48,620 --> 00:20:50,940 possibly can on whatever it is that they are 541 00:20:50,940 --> 00:20:53,640 commenting on. Um, but yeah, 542 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,040 that is that is one of the parts of the job 543 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,800 that is frustrating. 544 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,160 Some nights at the end of a long night or a 545 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,960 long homestand or a long game. 546 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:02,560 Yes. 547 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:04,560 Carol Cox: Well, Jen, thank you for sharing that. And 548 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:05,960 this is why I asked this question, 549 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,360 because I want more women to understand that 550 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,640 it's it's normal was the wrong word. 551 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:12,760 But it happens. 552 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,960 And not to feel alone or isolated or like 553 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,800 they they don't have someone to turn to if, 554 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,400 if they are feeling this way, 555 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,520 that it happens. Unfortunately, to many of us 556 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,800 in the public. I like to say women who have a 557 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,440 public presence and a public voice. 558 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,640 Eventually you're going to get some type of 559 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,600 feedback related to that that you're not 560 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,920 necessarily going to enjoy and is probably 561 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,040 unfounded, but just know that you're not 562 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,720 alone. And I like to make sure I have my 563 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,240 circle of women, women friends right to turn 564 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,880 to, to be like, okay, that is a whole that's 565 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,880 like my public facing persona. 566 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,480 And but but here is, here is what matters to 567 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:48,840 me. 568 00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:51,840 Jen Mueller: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. 569 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:52,360 Yeah. 570 00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:54,270 Carol Cox: Well, Jen, let's talk about, 571 00:21:54,430 --> 00:21:56,630 uh, situations that didn't necessarily go the 572 00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:58,510 way that you wanted. I know I have had my 573 00:21:58,510 --> 00:21:59,710 share of those. I like to say, 574 00:21:59,710 --> 00:22:00,950 if you put in enough reps, 575 00:22:00,950 --> 00:22:03,110 you're gonna have those times where things 576 00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:05,070 are just like, no, I didn't that didn't go 577 00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:06,630 the way that I wanted. Do you have anything 578 00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:07,630 that comes to mind? 579 00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:10,150 Jen Mueller: Oh, I have a handful of things, 580 00:22:10,150 --> 00:22:13,910 but I'll tell you my job for 19 years on the 581 00:22:13,910 --> 00:22:16,430 Mariners broadcast was to do the walk off 582 00:22:16,430 --> 00:22:18,190 interviews after wins. 583 00:22:18,190 --> 00:22:19,790 And some of them are, I'm going to say, 584 00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:20,950 uneventful, right? 585 00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:22,670 The game was already decided in like the 586 00:22:22,670 --> 00:22:23,830 sixth or seventh inning, 587 00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:25,710 so there's no real drama at the end of the 588 00:22:25,710 --> 00:22:29,550 game. Those generally go according to plan. 589 00:22:30,270 --> 00:22:33,390 It's the ones where it truly is a walk off. 590 00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:36,030 Like they hit the game winning home run in 591 00:22:36,030 --> 00:22:37,230 the bottom of the ninth. 592 00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:39,630 Because now here's what's going to happen. 593 00:22:39,630 --> 00:22:41,270 I will be in the middle of some sort of 594 00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:44,870 celebration, and it probably includes a very 595 00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:47,630 cold bucket of ice water or Gatorade. 596 00:22:47,910 --> 00:22:50,630 And so while I am trying to dodge Gatorade, 597 00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:53,010 I'm trying to ask questions and keep it a 598 00:22:53,010 --> 00:22:55,730 secret and tune out all of the noise that's 599 00:22:55,730 --> 00:22:57,530 happening in the stadium while looking at the 600 00:22:57,530 --> 00:22:58,610 television camera. 601 00:22:58,770 --> 00:23:00,730 And while I dodged most of them, 602 00:23:00,730 --> 00:23:03,650 I did get squarely hit with a few buckets of 603 00:23:03,690 --> 00:23:06,650 Gatorade. And I don't care how much you 604 00:23:06,650 --> 00:23:09,330 prepare for that interview, it is so cold. 605 00:23:09,530 --> 00:23:11,530 And quite honestly, the very first thing I'm 606 00:23:11,530 --> 00:23:13,410 thinking when it happens is what does my hair 607 00:23:13,450 --> 00:23:15,690 look like? And is my makeup running down my 608 00:23:15,690 --> 00:23:18,170 face? Right. So now I'm totally distracted. 609 00:23:18,770 --> 00:23:21,610 But in those moments, you're still on TV. 610 00:23:21,650 --> 00:23:23,690 It is still being broadcast in front of 611 00:23:23,730 --> 00:23:26,290 thousands of people in the stadium at that 612 00:23:26,290 --> 00:23:29,090 moment. And so you've got to regroup really 613 00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:31,130 quick. Finish that up and make sure that the 614 00:23:31,130 --> 00:23:32,930 focus stays on the athlete that you're 615 00:23:32,930 --> 00:23:35,770 talking to. The thing that I have learned is 616 00:23:35,770 --> 00:23:39,730 to practice for distractions and to state the 617 00:23:39,730 --> 00:23:42,010 obvious about whatever is happening. 618 00:23:42,330 --> 00:23:45,010 So the bucket of Gatorade is really cold. 619 00:23:45,010 --> 00:23:46,610 It will take your breath away, 620 00:23:46,610 --> 00:23:48,810 and it will cause you to forget everything 621 00:23:48,810 --> 00:23:50,050 that you were about to say. 622 00:23:50,530 --> 00:23:53,030 I'm not going to pretend like it's not the 623 00:23:53,030 --> 00:23:54,270 case, right? 624 00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:56,230 I will say when I need to regroup. 625 00:23:56,670 --> 00:23:58,430 Wow, that was cold. 626 00:23:58,630 --> 00:24:00,950 Wow. Let's get back on track with this. 627 00:24:00,950 --> 00:24:03,150 I'm just buying myself a little bit of time 628 00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:05,430 to call my heart rate and to get back to it, 629 00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:07,150 but everybody just saw it, 630 00:24:07,150 --> 00:24:08,950 so I'm not afraid of acknowledging it. 631 00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:11,110 And we shouldn't be afraid of acknowledging 632 00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:13,470 when something doesn't go according to plan 633 00:24:13,790 --> 00:24:16,470 in a conversation or an interview or a 634 00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:19,310 presentation, it makes you human. 635 00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:21,070 It level sets everything, 636 00:24:21,070 --> 00:24:23,990 and it gives you a chance to calm down and to 637 00:24:24,030 --> 00:24:26,430 reset from wherever you want to start. 638 00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:28,590 Carol Cox: Yeah, that's really helpful. 639 00:24:28,670 --> 00:24:30,790 Just. Yeah. And acknowledging, 640 00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:32,630 like you said, everyone could see it. 641 00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:35,430 It's not it's not something that you can just 642 00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:36,630 pretend didn't happen. 643 00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:38,430 And so like kind of acknowledge it also just 644 00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:40,550 kind of gets it off of their mind too, 645 00:24:40,590 --> 00:24:42,670 because you've closed the loop, so to speak, 646 00:24:42,910 --> 00:24:44,630 in their mind. And then you can go on. 647 00:24:44,950 --> 00:24:46,390 I remember that, you know, 648 00:24:46,430 --> 00:24:48,670 I've done lots of live TV and unlike you, 649 00:24:48,670 --> 00:24:50,790 I'm the one answering the questions from the 650 00:24:50,790 --> 00:24:53,130 reporter. So obviously we have the topics 651 00:24:53,130 --> 00:24:54,650 that are probably going to be for that 652 00:24:54,650 --> 00:24:56,370 segment and the segments are short, 653 00:24:56,410 --> 00:24:57,770 you know, 3 or 4 minutes, 654 00:24:58,010 --> 00:25:00,490 right, with myself, the reporter and the 655 00:25:00,490 --> 00:25:01,650 other political analysts. 656 00:25:01,650 --> 00:25:03,330 So there's three of us. So it's like boom, 657 00:25:03,330 --> 00:25:04,770 boom, boom, right. Question, 658 00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:05,850 short answer, you know, 659 00:25:05,890 --> 00:25:07,010 next person, etc.. 660 00:25:07,410 --> 00:25:08,930 So I'll have my prepared notes, 661 00:25:08,970 --> 00:25:10,810 just like you do on the sidelines of what 662 00:25:10,810 --> 00:25:12,250 we're going to talk about, and some different 663 00:25:12,250 --> 00:25:14,050 things that I've thought about in advance. 664 00:25:14,330 --> 00:25:16,890 And I remember it was so again, 665 00:25:16,930 --> 00:25:18,850 lots of live TV and I'm good at thinking on 666 00:25:18,850 --> 00:25:22,410 my feet. And this was again, 667 00:25:22,410 --> 00:25:25,170 election night. 2016 was not going the way 668 00:25:25,370 --> 00:25:28,050 that I had hoped and we were taped. 669 00:25:28,090 --> 00:25:30,490 Luckily we were taping for the next morning, 670 00:25:30,490 --> 00:25:32,370 so it was like 1130 at night. 671 00:25:32,370 --> 00:25:34,130 Close to midnight. We were getting ready to 672 00:25:34,170 --> 00:25:36,210 wrap because we had just done the 11:00 news 673 00:25:36,250 --> 00:25:38,450 hour and the. 674 00:25:38,690 --> 00:25:40,170 So we were taping the segment, 675 00:25:40,210 --> 00:25:42,090 not live, and the reporter asked me a 676 00:25:42,090 --> 00:25:43,410 question and I literally, 677 00:25:43,410 --> 00:25:46,370 I think I was in a state of shock and I took 678 00:25:46,370 --> 00:25:49,090 me like 10s to answer, 679 00:25:49,090 --> 00:25:51,010 which would never happen on live TV. 680 00:25:51,150 --> 00:25:53,390 My brain probably knew we were taping for the 681 00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:55,430 next morning because I probably would have 682 00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:56,550 answered anyways. 683 00:25:56,550 --> 00:25:58,430 But I remember I just kind of sat there and 684 00:25:58,430 --> 00:25:59,990 for the first time there were zero. 685 00:26:00,030 --> 00:26:02,230 Like no words would kind of come out of my 686 00:26:02,230 --> 00:26:03,950 mouth. And then finally I just, 687 00:26:03,950 --> 00:26:06,150 like, took a deep breath and I answered, 688 00:26:06,190 --> 00:26:08,110 of course they cut it, you know, they slice 689 00:26:08,110 --> 00:26:09,950 it up for the next morning, 690 00:26:09,950 --> 00:26:12,830 but that has stuck with me so much because I 691 00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:15,630 feel like no matter how experienced you are, 692 00:26:15,630 --> 00:26:17,790 no matter how many years I have done this, 693 00:26:17,790 --> 00:26:19,230 no matter how prepared I was, 694 00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:21,430 sometimes like physically, 695 00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:24,390 like your body physiologically is doing 696 00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:26,910 something that you can't necessarily control. 697 00:26:26,910 --> 00:26:29,430 It's human. Like, I was having a real human 698 00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:32,750 moment and instead of beating myself up for 699 00:26:32,750 --> 00:26:34,670 it, which I do not, I give myself a lot of 700 00:26:34,670 --> 00:26:36,510 grace. And I think that's important for us to 701 00:26:36,550 --> 00:26:38,790 remember, too, that we're not always going to 702 00:26:38,790 --> 00:26:41,990 be perfect and to give ourselves grace when 703 00:26:42,030 --> 00:26:44,030 things don't go the way that we would want 704 00:26:44,030 --> 00:26:44,630 them to. 705 00:26:45,230 --> 00:26:47,510 Jen Mueller: You want to know the most brilliant thing in 706 00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:48,870 TV? You already know this, 707 00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:50,510 but I'm going to share it with the audience. 708 00:26:50,850 --> 00:26:54,050 The most brilliant part of TV is that there's 709 00:26:54,050 --> 00:26:55,370 always another broadcast. 710 00:26:56,130 --> 00:26:59,010 And so we joke about it all the time. 711 00:26:59,010 --> 00:27:01,530 The worst is if you have that moment and then 712 00:27:01,530 --> 00:27:03,330 you're not on TV for two weeks because you 713 00:27:03,330 --> 00:27:04,650 went on vacation. Right. 714 00:27:04,890 --> 00:27:07,890 The best part is you have a chance to go back 715 00:27:07,890 --> 00:27:09,830 and do it again, probably in another 30 716 00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:11,690 minutes. Right. 30 minutes or 2 hours. 717 00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:14,410 And so I hate to say it's like getting back 718 00:27:14,410 --> 00:27:16,650 on the horse, but it really is important to 719 00:27:16,690 --> 00:27:18,730 go back out there and have that interaction. 720 00:27:19,130 --> 00:27:21,970 And that's another one of those things where 721 00:27:21,970 --> 00:27:24,570 I would just say, oh my gosh, 722 00:27:24,610 --> 00:27:26,330 my brain went totally blank. 723 00:27:26,370 --> 00:27:28,490 We've been talking about this all day. 724 00:27:28,490 --> 00:27:30,450 Just buying myself a little bit of time. 725 00:27:30,490 --> 00:27:32,930 Right. I have lost my train of thought during 726 00:27:32,930 --> 00:27:36,210 an interview. I have had producers talk in my 727 00:27:36,210 --> 00:27:38,570 ear while I'm doing an interview so that I 728 00:27:38,610 --> 00:27:40,210 can't hear the person that I'm actually 729 00:27:40,210 --> 00:27:44,090 talking to, and then I'm stuck because they 730 00:27:44,210 --> 00:27:46,090 finish their answer and I don't know what 731 00:27:46,090 --> 00:27:47,450 they just said, right? 732 00:27:47,650 --> 00:27:49,970 And I have little phrases that I can get out 733 00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:52,910 of that To say I was so caught up in that 734 00:27:52,910 --> 00:27:56,110 answer I almost forgot my next question. 735 00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:58,510 Now the the truth is, I did forget the next 736 00:27:58,510 --> 00:27:59,710 question. I have no idea what they said, 737 00:27:59,710 --> 00:28:02,150 right? But I've got the little ways to pivot 738 00:28:02,190 --> 00:28:04,030 out of that, which once again, 739 00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:07,110 it's level setting and stating the obvious. 740 00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:10,070 I have also literally tripped into athletes 741 00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:12,030 trying to introduce myself while they were 742 00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:14,390 getting dressed. Those are moments I don't 743 00:28:14,390 --> 00:28:16,750 forget. And you can't pretend like it didn't 744 00:28:16,750 --> 00:28:18,990 happen because everybody just watched this 745 00:28:18,990 --> 00:28:21,550 happen, right? Talk about a human moment 746 00:28:21,550 --> 00:28:23,390 where your face goes bright red and you're 747 00:28:23,390 --> 00:28:25,390 just like, okay, you know what I'm going to 748 00:28:25,390 --> 00:28:26,670 do? Try this again tomorrow. 749 00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:27,350 Um. 750 00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:29,390 Speaker3: Well, hopefully they'll say they'll say hi to 751 00:28:29,390 --> 00:28:29,830 you because. 752 00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:30,750 Carol Cox: They remember you. 753 00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:32,990 Jen Mueller: Yeah, well, I did make quite the impression. 754 00:28:33,390 --> 00:28:35,350 I did, I did make quite the impression. 755 00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:35,870 Yeah. 756 00:28:35,910 --> 00:28:37,270 Speaker3: Mhm. Um, so. 757 00:28:37,270 --> 00:28:39,030 Carol Cox: Jen talk to us about your company. 758 00:28:39,070 --> 00:28:40,470 Talk sporty to me. 759 00:28:40,510 --> 00:28:42,390 What do you do and who do you work with. 760 00:28:42,830 --> 00:28:45,550 Jen Mueller: So I do a lot of keynotes and I do a lot of 761 00:28:45,550 --> 00:28:47,950 content around effective communication. 762 00:28:47,950 --> 00:28:49,830 It's just like the conversation we've been 763 00:28:50,050 --> 00:28:52,530 having today, pulling back the curtain on 764 00:28:52,530 --> 00:28:56,010 some of these conversations to really dissect 765 00:28:56,050 --> 00:28:57,290 how did we get there? 766 00:28:57,290 --> 00:28:59,730 How do we make the most of really short 767 00:28:59,730 --> 00:29:00,850 interactions? 768 00:29:00,850 --> 00:29:02,530 How do we make sure that we're not just 769 00:29:02,570 --> 00:29:04,690 asking for more communication? 770 00:29:04,690 --> 00:29:07,690 We actually are giving the people around us, 771 00:29:07,690 --> 00:29:09,410 whether it's our team at work, our team on 772 00:29:09,410 --> 00:29:12,890 the field, what they need to be successful. 773 00:29:12,890 --> 00:29:15,010 So I work with a lot of clients that are in 774 00:29:15,050 --> 00:29:17,210 the financial space, um, 775 00:29:17,250 --> 00:29:20,490 folks who need some additional tools around 776 00:29:20,490 --> 00:29:22,450 those soft skills, right? 777 00:29:22,490 --> 00:29:23,970 They've got the numbers down, but a little 778 00:29:24,010 --> 00:29:25,210 bit of soft skills and, 779 00:29:25,370 --> 00:29:28,250 um, inspiring some audiences to believe that 780 00:29:28,250 --> 00:29:30,050 they've already got the answers. 781 00:29:30,090 --> 00:29:32,250 They just they just need to elevate 782 00:29:32,250 --> 00:29:33,850 themselves just a little bit. 783 00:29:34,770 --> 00:29:37,050 Carol Cox: Well, what is what is something that 784 00:29:37,050 --> 00:29:39,130 listeners can start doing today, 785 00:29:39,370 --> 00:29:41,810 a habit or a strategy that they can 786 00:29:41,810 --> 00:29:44,330 incorporate into what they're doing to help 787 00:29:44,330 --> 00:29:47,170 them build this idea of confidence when 788 00:29:47,170 --> 00:29:49,250 they're in high pressure situations. 789 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,880 Jen Mueller: Well, I would say a couple of things. 790 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,160 Number one, you could turn every situation 791 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,240 into your version of high pressure. 792 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,880 So here's what I mean. 793 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,920 You know that people are going to ask you the 794 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,760 question, how are you. 795 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,720 Multiple times a day, right. 796 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,960 Hey, how are you? How's it going today? 797 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,680 And we would generally answer with the same 798 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,320 script, whatever that is. 799 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:13,680 I'm good. How are you? 800 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,200 I'm good. Instead of delivering that same 801 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,520 line, deliver what I would call a success 802 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,520 statement, which changes that conversation. 803 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,880 It makes you vulnerable in the moment. 804 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,680 And it's going to create that, 805 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,840 that, um, a little bit more high stakes 806 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,040 because the person you're talking to was not 807 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,640 expecting that answer either. 808 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,400 And so now you get to practice in a real low 809 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,520 stakes moment, the same exact emotions that 810 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,480 you would feel in some of those more crucial, 811 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,240 crucial and critical conversations. 812 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,280 Does that make sense? 813 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,220 Carol Cox: Yes, yes. Like taking these daily 814 00:30:50,220 --> 00:30:52,020 opportunities to practice? 815 00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:54,860 Jen Mueller: Yes. So you would say something like I'm 816 00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:58,100 fantastic. I loved this podcast episode that 817 00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:00,100 I got a chance to talk to today. 818 00:31:00,300 --> 00:31:02,220 Right. I answered the question. 819 00:31:02,220 --> 00:31:03,860 I gave my success. 820 00:31:03,900 --> 00:31:05,060 I love this podcast. 821 00:31:05,060 --> 00:31:08,220 I just opened the door for a different 822 00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:09,460 conversation. 823 00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:11,700 I get to guide that conversation, 824 00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:13,620 but I also get to practice some of these 825 00:31:13,620 --> 00:31:15,500 skills because I don't know where the 826 00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:16,980 conversation is going to go. 827 00:31:17,140 --> 00:31:19,020 So use these little moments. 828 00:31:19,020 --> 00:31:20,660 By the way, you're also advocating for 829 00:31:20,660 --> 00:31:21,900 yourself when you do that, 830 00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:25,180 but use the little moments to start building 831 00:31:25,180 --> 00:31:28,220 up the skills and the confidence to use them 832 00:31:28,220 --> 00:31:29,380 in bigger moments. 833 00:31:29,860 --> 00:31:31,380 Carol Cox: Oh, I like that. Jen. 834 00:31:31,380 --> 00:31:32,780 Where is the best place for listeners to 835 00:31:32,820 --> 00:31:33,660 connect with you? 836 00:31:34,460 --> 00:31:37,300 Jen Mueller: I would say LinkedIn and Instagram. 837 00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:40,220 You can find me on Talk Sporty to me if you 838 00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:42,500 like the videos, Talk Sporty to me on 839 00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:45,220 YouTube. That is the website I will also 840 00:31:45,220 --> 00:31:47,380 throw out if you are a sports fan and like 841 00:31:47,380 --> 00:31:50,040 cooking, I have an entire show where I cook 842 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,480 with athletes called I cook, 843 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,760 You Measure, and that's a really fun way to 844 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,840 just engage on a different level in all of 845 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,200 those conversations. 846 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,000 Carol Cox: Oh that's fun. This is on YouTube. 847 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,560 Jen Mueller: It is on YouTube. Yep. 848 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,000 Carol Cox: Well, tell us some of the things that you've 849 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:03,480 cooked. 850 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,560 Jen Mueller: We have cooked any number of things from like 851 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,680 a taco, turkey mac to steak with chimichurri 852 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,800 to chorizo with eggs. 853 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,640 But the crazy part is figuring out what their 854 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,480 comfort and skill level is in the kitchen. 855 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,320 So you talk about vulnerability. 856 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,960 Tell you what, these guys are admitting that 857 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,720 they don't know how to use a can opener or a 858 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,400 knife. I think that takes a little bit more, 859 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,720 um, confidence and vulnerability than you 860 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,960 might imagine, but it also creates some 861 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,040 really fun and funny moments in the kitchen. 862 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:38,480 Carol Cox: Oh, that is fun. All right. 863 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,280 I'll make sure to put all of these links in 864 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,960 the show notes so that listeners can find you 865 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,040 on YouTube and LinkedIn and Instagram and 866 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:46,960 your website. Jen, thank you so much for 867 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,900 coming on the podcast. I really enjoyed this 868 00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:49,900 conversation. 869 00:32:49,940 --> 00:32:51,220 Jen Mueller: Yeah, it's been really fun. 870 00:32:51,220 --> 00:32:52,220 Carol, thanks. 871 00:32:52,660 --> 00:32:54,780 Carol Cox: If this conversation got you thinking about 872 00:32:54,780 --> 00:32:56,820 how you show up when it matters most, 873 00:32:56,820 --> 00:32:58,220 whether it's on stage, 874 00:32:58,420 --> 00:33:00,260 in a meeting, on camera, 875 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:01,620 even on a zoom webinar, 876 00:33:01,780 --> 00:33:04,500 and you want to elevate both your content and 877 00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:07,700 your delivery. Join us at our next one day 878 00:33:07,820 --> 00:33:11,540 in-person Speaking Accelerator workshop in 879 00:33:11,540 --> 00:33:12,780 Orlando, Florida. 880 00:33:12,780 --> 00:33:14,300 We have so much fun! 881 00:33:14,340 --> 00:33:16,700 You create your signature talk and you get to 882 00:33:16,740 --> 00:33:19,620 practice delivering it all on the same day. 883 00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:21,620 That's why we call it an accelerator. 884 00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:24,020 You can get all the details at speaking your 885 00:33:24,020 --> 00:33:27,860 brand.com. Again, that's speaking your brand. 886 00:33:30,420 --> 00:33:31,900 If you enjoyed this episode, 887 00:33:31,940 --> 00:33:34,180 be sure to follow the Speaking Your Podcast 888 00:33:34,180 --> 00:33:36,780 and your favorite podcast app and share it 889 00:33:36,780 --> 00:33:38,940 with a friend. Until next time, 890 00:33:38,940 --> 00:33:40,020 thanks for listening.