Unknown: Welcome to
this episode of interventions. I'm
Cheri Dotterer, co-host of this podcast. I don't know if you're
aware, but Jonily of every month where she talks to math teachers
about problems to overcome math challenges. I've been attending
this. Yes, I, as an OT have been attending this for the last five
years. That's how I discovered how this area was something that
we needed to help our students with. But she has invited us to
participate in a take a sneak peek at the beginning of her
session. For anyone who is not present, we do offer CEUs if you
go into disability labs, the link is in the show notes, and
you take the short quiz that's available today, you're going to
get to see the beginning of Saturday math, September, 2024
to hear the rest of the math and a little bit about what I had to
say. Also, I want you to wait until the end. We also have
something else that we're inviting you to. Saturday math.
We're back for the 2024 2025 school year, and I am your
fearless leader. Jonily Zupancic, Saturday math is a
chance for us to come together and for you to learn about
counterintuitive brain based, highly impactful, which means
raising test scores powerful opportunity to learn about how
to improve number sense and math achievement for our students. By
doing that, our goal is to be able to teach more in less time
with fewer things. So if everything's important.
Nothing's important. What typically happens, especially in
mathematics, is kids folders and binders get so stuffed with
things and with worksheets and packets and and then by the end
of the year, we don't have any significant results of those
kids achieving and growing. So what we want to do is really
come back to these cliche phrases, less is more. Work
smarter, not harder. And people say those all the time, and we
nod, and we're like, yeah, we want that. We want that. But
it's like, what does that really mean? What does that in
particular look like? And I'm going to show you that on all of
these Saturday mornings. And this morning, we are going to
focus on diagonals. That's it like. That's how much I want us
to simplify this. Less is more work smarter, not harder. So
everything we do today is going to be based on this one
diagonal. I'm about to show you this one diagonal can target
standards from preschool through high school, and this one
diagonal can improve number sense and overall math
achievement for our students. So as we go through the Saturdays
this year, we're going to get a little more
like particular we're going to get a little more deliberate,
we're going to get a little more focused on certain standards,
but today I just want you to see the overall beauty of how one
diagonal can teach hundreds of math skills and concepts. And
the reason for this is our kids feel defeated with mathematics.
Our kids are beaten down, so even as young as kindergarten
and first grade, kids already come in with a sense that I can
do this or I can't do this. Now, what they really mean, and part
of what they're saying is true. Part of what they're saying is
true because we are born with a certain level of number sense.
Number Sense, by definition, is the innate, intuitive
understanding of number, and we are born with a certain level of
that. There's a good amount of research that says babies as
young as six months old can see how large or small numbers are,
and babies as young as six months old also already have
deficits in their seeing of number and number, meaning how
big and small numbers are, where they're placed on the number
line, the size of number and the the word that I'm going to use
for this is magnitude. So even our kids in kindergarten, fifth
grade, ninth grade, still have this innate, intuitive sense,
and it varies from person to person. Not everyone has the
same level of sense. So when kids say, I can't do that, I
can't see it. There is some truth to that, and what we want
to do is instead.
Instead of coming back with, and I know this has kind of been
some of the flavor in math professional development, and,
you know, math on social media, instead of coming back and
saying, Oh, I can't do that yet. Okay, that kids are just annoyed
by that sometimes, you know what I mean. Just in all honesty, I
know our intentions are good. I know our intentions are good, or
we come back and we're like, we've gotta have a growth
mindset, okay? If you have a mental disorder, let's say
you've got depression, you've got anxiety, or you're just, you
know, people don't call this a mental disorder, but if you are
a type A, you know, whatever, that's that's somewhat of a
mental disorder, because we're often annoyed by what some of
the people say. Because we're like, look, we're we just don't
operate that way. So you're saying these great things, and
we get it, but that doesn't help me. Do you see? So when we come
back with those positive things, I'm not saying don't come back
with positive things, but we come back those positive things.
Sometimes the kids just see right through that. So we have
to be really cautious in how we're massaging this climate and
culture in our classrooms and in our intervention sessions. So
when kids are telling us, I don't get this, I don't
understand. I'm like, You know what? I know? I know now you
learn this. I'm going to toggle back and forth between math and
real life for a moment. You learn this in therapy. So when
someone is coming to you and they're really struggling, what
we tend to do as human behavior is to fix it or give a positive
or look on the bright side. That is the worst thing you can do
for someone that is struggling, for someone that is struggling,
unless they're saying something that you totally disagree with.
We want to come back and we want to say, I know,
I know. Gosh, if you walk away from this session today with
nothing else, take that. Okay, so when our kids are
behaviorally challenged, and I mean, I know this is a math
session, so kids are saying this in math, but when they're
behaviorally challenged, ADHD, when they're acting out and
they're frustrated and they're mad, and you know, for some of
our older kids, they might be cussing and walking out of the
room or whatever it is, you know you the first thing I like to
say to kids is, I know, I know. You know what. Sometimes life
sucks, I know.
And then one of the other things is, how can I help? But let's
get back to the math piece. And there are truths to kids that
are like, I don't get this. Well, you can't, you just don't
get it. Yet, everybody's a math person to I'm not trying to make
fun of that stuff, but really, when you get down to the core of
how to fill deficits with kids, that's not the way to do it. So
I say, I know. And the next thing I say, particularly in my
math small groups and in my math classrooms, is math is
difficult. There is so much controversy with mathematics.
There is there is so much struggle with mathematics that
we don't even acknowledge. And kids feel like, well, I'm
supposed to get this soon, or I'm supposed to have a growth
mindset. I guess I'm just broken, and I still don't get it
because they really don't, they don't get it, and because of our
instructional strategies, or lack of really good best
practices and instructional strategies, kids still don't get
it, and then we tell them, they'll get it soon, but then
they still don't. Do you see, this is like, really hardcore
this morning. This is really hardcore this morning, but I
just want to just drop some truths out there to really have
us rethink all of our instructional facilitation
practices.
So I will say, I know math is really difficult, and what we're
going to do is we are going to just try to play with it. Just
give me a chance to play with it,
and then I'm going to do with them what I'm going to do with
you today, with one little diagonal so I need to
acknowledge to them, like, especially my eighth graders
that I'm working with right now, great group of kids, very
compliant. Like, have a good focus.
You know, they've kind of checked out of math because
they've been defeated, but they're willing to give it a try
this year. This is, this is my new group of of eighth graders
I'm working with, and they are just, they're the best, but
they're like, Mr. Panzek, I just, I don't, I don't get it.
And for so many years, they haven't gotten it, and they
don't see it that they just have lost trust anymore in the adults
that are trying to help them. So I'm going to show you what i.
Done with my eighth graders. Now I'm in a unique situation, for
those of you that don't know,
I am a math coach and consultant for minds on math. So I serve
anywhere from like five to 15 districts every year in some
capacity, in and outside Ohio, as well as in person and
virtually. And because I serve so many teachers in so many
districts, I like to bring us together on these Saturdays to
kind of like pave the way for all of the work that I do
together with my clients. But I have one school in particular.
It's a k8 building that I have some collaborative groups that I
work with. I have some partner groups, and this year, I am
heavily invested, and I've been in the classrooms every single
day of these grade levels, so I'm highly invested, and have
all of the resources and connection to standards for
these grade levels. And that is Grade Two, grade three, grade
four, grade five, grade seven, grade eight. So I've got six
classes a day right now that I teach to, and when I teach to
each of those six classes, I use the same stimulus and task with
every single class
and then facilitate it to match the math standards of that grade
level. And you're going to see a glimpse of that today. And I
think it's important, if you've never been to a Saturday math
before, that I share with you all this background information,
because what I'm going to do today is going to be very
different than we typically deliver mathematics to our kids.
Now I'm going to tell you I have three,
and I think this is important too, especially for those of you
that are regulars that may not have heard this story, or maybe
it's been too long.
I say this because this isn't all just fun and games. There
are three particular pretty significant research results
that I've gotten in the past 20 years.
About almost 20 years ago now, I had a sixth grade group of kids
with all different ability levels, from limited and failing
the end of course exams every year to accelerated advanced
kids that weren't necessarily in advanced classes for math. So we
put a conglomerate of kids together in this cohort, in a
sixth grade classroom. And of this cohort, this, this entire
class of sixth grade students, 27% of them passed the fifth
grade, end of year state assessment, only 27% passed. So
you know, the pair to that to 100 is how many failed. So 20%
27% of this cohort passed the fifth grade. So you know, not
even a third of these kids passed the fifth grade math end
of state assessment. The previous year we had these kids,
of course, for nine months they took the sixth grade assessment.
And for these kids, I was with them every day, sometimes, and
then usually only one or two days a week with this model. And
at the end of that sixth grade year when they took the state
assessment,
66, zero, 60. Yes, I know everybody's numbers are, are
that as a matter of fact, I have a school district that reached
out last year that in their high school algebra, end of state and
of course, state test, 4% passed. I
mean, we just, I mean, this is just, this is a fact. This
doesn't surprise anyone, but we went from 27% passing to 60%
passing 66 zero. Now, still to an outsider of the math
education world, they're like, you only have 60% passing. No,
you don't get it in the in the math achievement world, like 60%
is, is a number that only some people can dream of. Okay, now,
in another school just last year, not the partner school I
work with, but in another school district. I worked with this
school district for two years, pretty intensely, the fourth
grade teachers last year the end of course, fourth grade state
math exam that all the fourth graders in the state take, this
school district had had similar results. They're anywhere from
like 40 to 65% passing at any grade level. So these 2/4 grade
teachers with all of the fourth graders in this whole district,
84% passing,
84% passing. So I mean, that is tremendous, but what this is
going to take is a complete shift in how we deliver
mathematics,
not a shift in the materials.
Use, although that could be, but here's what our tradition is in
mathematics. Oh, hey, we've got a curriculum review year, and
now is our chance to get 84% passing. We're gonna do a
curriculum review, and we're gonna choose a new curriculum,
and this is gonna do it that will never do it. Okay? Now I'm
not saying don't do those things. I'm not saying, like,
whatever, but if you want results, like I'm talking about,
that's not the way you're going to get the results. Okay? You
don't you do those things for other reasons. One more
example, and then I promise I'm going to teach you today,
because I'm sure you're like, just tell me how to do it. Joni,
like you're preaching to the choir here. We're here on a
Saturday morning, like we believe you, we trust you. Just
freak and tell us what to do. But I just, I need us to truly
understand the power and impact of this model.
So the third example is I actually at this partner school,
this k8 building, I have a cohort of kids that I've been
following since kindergarten. I get access to them at least two
days a week, at least two days a week. And these kinders, because
I call them my kinders, because they're my cohort group. They're
in seventh grade this year.
So you talk about, like commitment to excellence, okay,
they are seventh graders this year. I started with them in
kindergarten when they first took the the a standardized
test. So not an achievement test, not an adaptive test, not,
you know, there are two really good standardized test companies
that I really love for mathematics and for cognitive
ability, like IQ ish and they are Terra Nova and Iowa. They're
actually competing companies, but they both, you know, it
doesn't matter. It's, it's, you know, apples and oranges. It
doesn't matter which you pick. You know, they're both whatever,
whatever you know cost effective way, or whatever partnership you
can make with them. When we took the Terra Nova, when these
cohort of kids took the Terra Nova
early on in second and third grade, when you start giving it
their cognitive ability scores, IQ scores, and 100 is average.
We're anywhere from like 89 to 132 Okay, so you have the bell
curve of cognitive ability. You do at every grade level, every
school. But what we see in schools is for the math
achievement portion. We typically see a bell curve.
Also, we see a little bit of kids, like, under 20th
percentile. We see some more kids between 20 and 40th
percentile. 50th percentile is average. So you see the most
kids at the top, you know, going up that bell from that bell
curve, you see the most kids between, like 40 and 60th
percentile, and then you start seeing 70th, 80th percentile.
And then down here you see, you know, 80th, 90th percentile, and
that's a few kids, just like when you give any math test, you
get a few Fs, a little more DS, probably lots of CS and Bs, a
little less Bs, and then a little less A's.
So we're always teaching to create these bell curves.
We want instructional delivery that's going to break the bell
curve
like we just have accepted the bell curve, because, see, that's
how brains are, and that's how statistics
tells us cohorts of populations are, and they are. You pick any
20 people off the street, you give them a math thing, you'll
get a bell curve. Scenario,
what we did with this cohort group was we broke the bell
curve. These kids had cognitive abilities, still bell curve,
IQs,
but no student in the math achievement portion had less
than a 70th percentile on their math score. So every single one
of these students outperformed their cognitive ability.
So this is possible,
and let's just snap to it here. I'm going to go ahead and share
my screen,
I have two documents. I have the document that I'm going to share
with you that when I follow up through email, you'll get the
document that you can display for your students, but the
document that I'm going to show you today, I'm actually going to
draw notes on it so you have it for you, so you can take your
own notes. But I'm going to draw notes, I'm going to save it
electronically, and you're also going to get that copy with all
of the notes we talked about today. And then I am recording
this, so you will get a link to the recording if you need to go
back and relook at any of the pieces and parts. So I'm going
to go ahead, I'm going to pull it up first, and I'm going to
share my screen. I'm going to pull up the diagonals with.
Notes, and we're going to take some notes on this.
Now, as I said, the instructional delivery is what
is absolutely essential. The instructional delivery is
absolutely essential. And I am minimizing you guys, so if for
some reason, like you can't see my screen, or you stop hearing
me, or whatever, just unmute and tell me, because I'm minimizing
you, I'm not going to be able to see you while I'm sharing here.
So there's a certain way that we actually have to deliver, and
this is why an adoption of a new textbook never gets significant
results and achievement is because we're not focused on the
delivery. We're focused on the new materials, but we're not
focused on the delivery. So you can adopt any textbook you want,
and you can use this delivery method with your textbook. This
is, this is probably one of the most the other most important
things I say today is whatever I'm sharing with you today,
you're going to see how it teaches standards. You'll find
things like this in your textbooks.
The key
to achieving high success is the delivery, how we facilitate it,
just like I talked about at the beginning. You know, when we use
some of those cliche things, kids kind of just get annoyed by
that. So we need a better delivery system that really
tells kids, no, this year is going to be different, trust me.
So how do I deliver this? You all see this diagonal and I've
put the delivery phrase here. These are my favorite three
words other than I love you, tell me about so I show kids a
diagonal and I say, tell me about.
Now this comes back to when I said, you know, kids are
defeated. They know that they've not been good. They know they
have not been successful with mathematics. And we're like, oh,
but not yet. And my 10th graders are like, Yeah, my teachers have
been telling that for not telling me that for nine years,
and nothing's changed.
So
instead of saying, you know, we're not good yet, or growth
mindset, what what I do to tell them that this year is different
and and to tell them that they have good thinking and
reasoning, and to celebrate that and to increase their
confidence, here's what I do. I say, tell me about, tell me
about this diagonal See, I'm not going to lecture them on the
fact that, you know, I am going to acknowledge, yeah,
you know, you guys, because by eighth grade, these kids are in
the non advanced math class. So we're telling them, oh,
everybody's a math person, everybody, but yet, you weren't
good enough to be in the advanced class for math. See,
we're really contradicting what we say in the climate that we're
building in schools. So I'm going to tell kids, look, you're
not in the advanced math class. Now, this is not how I'm talking
to first graders. Okay, I'm talking about these kids that
come with a lot of baggage, these secondary level kids, you
know, even fourth and fifth grade. Look, you know what? I
know, I know. I know you struggle. You know you're not in
the advanced math class. You know. And there's a reason why,
and it's because
not to anybody's fault, but the way that math has been delivered
to you has not allowed it to open up your brain to access the
information. So I'm going to try lots of different things with
you this year, until we get a just right approach that your
brain is going to be able to connect with it, and the only
way I can do that is to know what you're thinking.
So to get everybody thinking, I use the phrase tell me about
now, I don't necessarily tell this to my kids because it's too
much lecturing, but I'm telling this to you as teachers. The
reason I do this is because we open up the access for
everybody, because I'm not asking for an answer, because
I'm not asking them to solve something, because I'm not
pigeonholing them into a skill set, I'm just asking them tell
me about this diagonal anything you know,
what it does is it levels the playing field. It allows access
to all ability levels,
the most gifted and the most struggling at the same time. So
I can put every ability level of kid in the same classroom. I
don't even necessarily have to have an advanced class. And I
can differentiate with this model, with this one lesson, I
don't need enough to create seven lessons.
So I can say, tell me about this diagonal
gaining student perspective is so essential in Daniel Pink's
book drive, which is all about human behavior and what drive.
Us. It's really about motivation. He said that there
are a few important factors for motivation.
Number one is a sense of belonging.
The way that I create a sense of belonging in my classroom,
specifically with math content, is through this model, I
actually say without maybe saying it, I care what you
think. I care about your perspective. You belong here,
and what your brain is doing matters. And the way that I do
that is I say to my students, you know what? Guys tell me
about this diagonal. Tell
me about this diagonal. Anything you want. Now, when you first
start doing this, it's going to be all to be awkward for kids,
but in just a few short days, literally, like three days of
doing this, they're going to be like, This is amazing, and I
trust you, like they're not going to say that in those
words. They're still going to roll their eyes because that's
just a teenage habit, but they are going to be like, I trust
you and I'm willing to engage because you care what I think I
belong. So see, these things are absolutely important, no matter
what,
no matter what textbook or curriculum resources we use, no
matter what
it's all in the delivery. That's the point. So gaining student
perspective is the first thing we should do every single day to
jump start our lessons. Tell me about now. You could get
something from your textbook. You could get an equation, or
you could get a fraction or a number or a picture, or
whatever. Take a picture of something in your textbook.
Remove all of the questions, remove all of the narrative,
remove all of the stuff that forces answer, getting and
solving, and just put whatever symbol or image is there, just
like my diagonal. And you'll say, tell me about this
equation. Don't want you to solve it. I just tell me about
this equation. Tell me what. Now, here's some other prompts.
Tell me what you see. What do you notice?
Now, the next thing that I can ask, and I don't always ask. So
for those of you that were brand new today, welcome. I hope we
see you on other saturday sessions. The best way to get
triggered knowing when the registration is up, because
after today, I'll put the registration up for October. I
only put the registration up in Eventbrite one month at a time
in order to not miss it, to be guaranteed to not miss it and
not rely on me to remember you.
I juggle a lot. I got a lot of plates spinning. Go to
Eventbrite and follow mines on math, and then you'll get an
email. Hey, there's a new event. Hey, there's a new event. Hey,
there's a new event.
So do that. That would be the number one action. Also, if you
are new or even returning and you're not already registered
for tier one interventions, get on that train and get your
friends and get involved and and we launch September 21 two weeks
from today. So gotta do that. The next I want to say is, if
you follow math, if you follow minds on math on Eventbrite,
we've got another free training just like this that we're going
to do once a month. This is brand new. Krista, Amy Nicole,
Laura, those of you that are returning, those of you that
have been here, Kirk, those of you that have been here before,
we're adding another free monthly session that is going to
be mathematics based, but it's going to target more of the
adaptations. I mentioned the adaptations today. Sherry
mentioned in the comments some of the adaptations, but it's
going to be mathematically based. So we're going to teach a
math concept, but it's going to be much more of sherry sharing
the adaptations for that concept. So if you have kids
struggle with fine motor, you have kids struggle with visual
perception, you have kids struggle with ADHD. You have
kids that struggle with some of those non academic things. The
session every month is called impact. It will always be on a
Wednesday at 7pm Eastern. Event right already has the
registration up.
You can on right now go to Eventbrite, search minds on
math, and you can register for that session I
and we are going to extend the diagonal,
and we are going to expand on how to adapt that for students
with and without disabilities, but looking at it from the what.
Makes a diagonal, a diagonal beautiful, and why? When Sherry
put in the comments before diagonals are the most
difficult, like in letter formation.
Okay, so we're going to add all of those pieces in and extend on
the content from whatever the Saturday was, and we're gonna
share all of the adaptive strategies. So
this is up level for us.
This is really up level, and we're bringing it to you once a
month,
and it's gonna be on a Wednesday, and we hope to see
you for that you.