WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.599 --> 00:00:03.569 Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, friends and followers. 00:00:03.629 --> 00:00:08.489 We are on the last episode of a Vision for Learning and the first 00:00:08.489 --> 00:00:14.159 episode of Artificial Intelligence, real Talk with Eli Davis. 00:00:14.369 --> 00:00:18.094 So what we're gonna do is we're gonna take this podcast, has started out 00:00:18.094 --> 00:00:22.199 being about a vision for learning and artificial intelligence and 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:24.449 virtual reality, augmented reality. 00:00:24.764 --> 00:00:29.474 And we're gonna shift just a little bit because the conversation and the emphasis 00:00:29.474 --> 00:00:32.564 has gone towards artificial intelligence. 00:00:32.564 --> 00:00:35.304 And so we're gonna bring in Eli Davis. 00:00:35.304 --> 00:00:37.464 Let me read Eli's bio real quick. 00:00:38.364 --> 00:00:41.124 is an educator, researcher and thought leader, passionate about 00:00:41.124 --> 00:00:44.514 the intersections of artificial intelligence, education, and equity. 00:00:44.874 --> 00:00:47.844 He's a PhD candidate in teaching and learning at the University of 00:00:47.844 --> 00:00:51.714 South Carolina, and he explores the Transformative power of AI to foster 00:00:51.714 --> 00:00:55.974 critical thinking, creativity, and inclusivity in educational settings. 00:00:56.424 --> 00:00:59.874 Drawing from his experience as a special education teacher and adjunct professor, 00:00:59.874 --> 00:01:03.594 he champions the use of AI as a tool for empowering educators and students 00:01:03.594 --> 00:01:06.504 alike, a relentless seeker of knowledge. 00:01:06.504 --> 00:01:10.494 Eli's work blends scientific inquiry and cultural consciousness, 00:01:10.524 --> 00:01:14.304 positioning him as a voice for innovation and healing and education. 00:01:15.474 --> 00:01:19.794 I'm so excited for what you're bringing to this podcast. 00:01:19.794 --> 00:01:21.504 It's gonna be just awesome. 00:01:21.504 --> 00:01:26.634 So thank you for picking up the baton and saying, I've got a voice and 00:01:26.634 --> 00:01:28.164 an opinion that needs to be shared. 00:01:28.289 --> 00:01:31.889 Well, well, thank you very much for inviting me, Jethro. 00:01:32.199 --> 00:01:33.549 This is a an amazing. 00:01:33.699 --> 00:01:39.329 Opportunity and, you know when you, when you are studying healing, 00:01:39.689 --> 00:01:43.889 you have to, well, I feel it's, it's nice to try to heal yourself. 00:01:44.189 --> 00:01:49.379 So I go to therapy and my therapist, I. And told me, she said, she said, 00:01:49.379 --> 00:01:51.419 Hey Eli, people need to hear you. 00:01:51.809 --> 00:01:52.289 I said, for 00:01:52.289 --> 00:01:52.649 real. 00:01:53.039 --> 00:01:54.929 So thank you for the opportunity. 00:01:54.929 --> 00:01:56.699 You are, you are, you know what I mean? 00:01:56.704 --> 00:01:59.999 You, you are making my therapist look like something. 00:02:01.116 --> 00:02:04.716 well, happy to support your therapist. 00:02:04.716 --> 00:02:05.346 That's great. 00:02:06.886 --> 00:02:11.236 this originally came about because Ross Romano, who's a, a partner at the 00:02:11.236 --> 00:02:16.896 B Podcast Network met you and said, man, Jethro, I think Eli needs to have 00:02:16.896 --> 00:02:20.946 his own show and we need to support him and, and get him going on it. 00:02:21.426 --> 00:02:25.396 And as I've looked at where this podcast has gone, it's definitely 00:02:25.396 --> 00:02:27.586 veered towards ai and so. 00:02:28.096 --> 00:02:32.306 It makes sense that AI would would be the focus going forward. 00:02:32.456 --> 00:02:36.956 And so you have a different perspective than I do, which I think is valuable. 00:02:37.326 --> 00:02:41.196 What are some of the things that you are bringing to the table that you 00:02:41.196 --> 00:02:46.386 think are important as we talk and think about AI in education specifically? 00:02:48.351 --> 00:02:52.441 How to use AI as a as a partner. 00:02:52.941 --> 00:03:00.831 Instead of using AI as a crutch, but also how to navigate using AI as a crutch and 00:03:00.931 --> 00:03:07.741 having it so that it can enhance your thinking, your ideas, and also offer 00:03:07.771 --> 00:03:12.046 a. A tool for organiz organizing ideas. 00:03:12.466 --> 00:03:14.836 I one of the, one of the coolest things that you can do with 00:03:14.836 --> 00:03:18.526 artificial intelligence is to brainstorm right inside the interface. 00:03:19.016 --> 00:03:22.406 And then you can go ahead and say, can you organize some of these ideas? 00:03:22.886 --> 00:03:26.451 One of the things that I struggled with when I, when I, especially 00:03:26.451 --> 00:03:30.751 when I first started my PhD program, was organizing my thoughts. 00:03:30.781 --> 00:03:34.201 My, my instructors would consistently say that this, you, you did this, 00:03:34.201 --> 00:03:36.211 you said this, this was redundant. 00:03:36.461 --> 00:03:39.941 This, you know, I would get a lot of feedback from, from my writing. 00:03:40.296 --> 00:03:45.516 But what I, what I know, and this was using artificial intelligence inside 00:03:45.546 --> 00:03:51.126 of my special education classroom and watching my students use artificial 00:03:51.126 --> 00:03:56.076 intelligence to organize their ideas, especially when they have abstract ideas. 00:03:56.316 --> 00:03:58.026 Some of them are not connecting. 00:03:58.026 --> 00:04:02.106 They don't, they don't have the ability to, to express their cognitive 00:04:02.106 --> 00:04:04.131 thought in a way that will be clear. 00:04:04.696 --> 00:04:08.556 So, you know, using artificial intelligence as a tool, 00:04:08.556 --> 00:04:09.936 as a thought partner. 00:04:10.336 --> 00:04:12.436 That's, that's where, that's where I want to go. 00:04:12.436 --> 00:04:17.676 And you know playing the guitar, I know what an instrument does. 00:04:18.036 --> 00:04:18.606 You know what I mean? 00:04:18.606 --> 00:04:22.536 It allows you to, well, and it allows you to scream, it allows you to, 00:04:22.596 --> 00:04:26.796 to say something sometimes that you have in your heart, but you don't 00:04:26.796 --> 00:04:28.446 have the ability to articulate it. 00:04:28.446 --> 00:04:32.166 And that is what I believe the artificial intelligence is really good for. 00:04:33.681 --> 00:04:36.891 Yeah, I, I, I agree with that and I just wanna share a brief 00:04:36.891 --> 00:04:42.771 story about that opportunity where AI can enhance something. 00:04:42.771 --> 00:04:47.781 So my oldest daughter has Down Syndrome and she can communicate, 00:04:47.781 --> 00:04:51.861 I. But it's not great most of the time, and you gotta work really hard 00:04:51.861 --> 00:04:53.121 to understand what she's saying. 00:04:53.601 --> 00:04:58.581 And one of the amazing things is that when we gave her a phone when she was a senior 00:04:58.581 --> 00:05:03.771 in high school, she started texting us and she started texting us full sentences. 00:05:03.771 --> 00:05:07.776 I. And because she was able to use the predictive text, she was able 00:05:07.776 --> 00:05:11.256 to say things and spell things that she just did not know how to do. 00:05:11.766 --> 00:05:16.866 Now that was cool that she could now text us, but what made it even better 00:05:17.046 --> 00:05:22.006 is that as we've had AI be developed and we can start using it, is she's been 00:05:22.006 --> 00:05:26.936 able to text some of those things write some of those things down in text form. 00:05:27.281 --> 00:05:32.801 Then be able to put that into chat GBT and have it create something that, 00:05:32.801 --> 00:05:38.501 here's the key Eli that is true to her heart and what she really believes that 00:05:39.251 --> 00:05:41.681 is not capable of articulating just 00:05:41.681 --> 00:05:42.161 yet. 00:05:42.641 --> 00:05:46.751 Now it, it cannot think for her, it can. 00:05:47.366 --> 00:05:50.996 Come up with things and have it be true to her if it's not something that, 00:05:51.326 --> 00:05:53.296 that she that she's putting in there. 00:05:53.656 --> 00:05:58.666 But I, she, we wanted her to write a letter to, like a Christmas 00:05:58.666 --> 00:06:01.336 letter to all of her friends and stuff that she could send out. 00:06:01.606 --> 00:06:05.416 So she did, and she typed it in the way that she's, that she's comfortable with. 00:06:05.806 --> 00:06:10.276 And then we put it in the chatt and it expressed, it captured her personality. 00:06:10.276 --> 00:06:13.156 It expressed who she was, what she cared about. 00:06:13.726 --> 00:06:15.711 Oh my goodness, Eli, I can't go back. 00:06:16.321 --> 00:06:18.541 To her not having a voice. 00:06:18.991 --> 00:06:19.526 You know what I mean? 00:06:20.071 --> 00:06:26.445 Yes one of my students, you know um, and this is when chat GPT like had 00:06:26.445 --> 00:06:31.405 just come out and I you know, and I pulled it up on the screen and he did 00:06:31.405 --> 00:06:34.945 just, you know, he didn't have the ability to, to, to take his cognitive 00:06:34.945 --> 00:06:36.265 thought and then to write it out. 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:39.445 It, it just, it is just always become distorted. 00:06:39.445 --> 00:06:42.535 He, you know, and then to have him take his. 00:06:42.975 --> 00:06:48.735 His distorted sentence, his thought, and then press enter, and to see his 00:06:48.885 --> 00:06:52.425 eyes open when he read his sentence. 00:06:52.425 --> 00:06:55.485 I mean, when he read what it came out with, it was amazing. 00:06:55.485 --> 00:06:58.665 It was as if you have given this person a gift. 00:06:59.675 --> 00:07:01.775 That is so powerful and. 00:07:02.315 --> 00:07:05.045 That is not the case for every single person that's out 00:07:05.045 --> 00:07:09.935 there, and I wouldn't pretend that it was the case, but the fact that we can 00:07:09.935 --> 00:07:15.635 give voice to someone who had hasn't had a voice is incredibly powerful 00:07:15.635 --> 00:07:21.695 and, and that's the kind of beauty and amazing part that I, that I want 00:07:21.695 --> 00:07:23.855 to focus on and have, be a part of. 00:07:24.245 --> 00:07:27.725 Of what we're doing and because of your background and what you've 00:07:27.725 --> 00:07:31.625 done professionally and how you're approaching this, that's what I'm 00:07:31.625 --> 00:07:36.695 seeing you, that you're gonna bring to this conversation about AI and 00:07:36.695 --> 00:07:37.385 education. 00:07:37.535 --> 00:07:40.595 And so you've interviewed a few people already. 00:07:40.685 --> 00:07:43.865 Do you wanna just talk about some of the people that you've got 00:07:43.865 --> 00:07:46.595 coming on and some of the, the big ideas that you're gonna share? 00:07:46.760 --> 00:07:47.750 Oh, most definitely. 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:49.490 So I have Dr. Teasdale. 00:07:49.880 --> 00:07:54.020 Dr. Teasdale is a professor at the university of Clark Atlanta. 00:07:54.470 --> 00:07:58.080 And she is I think she's coming off of a TED Talk. 00:07:58.290 --> 00:08:02.930 On how to use artificial intelligence with students with DYS dyslexia. 00:08:03.350 --> 00:08:06.800 So we had a really interesting conversation about that. 00:08:06.830 --> 00:08:12.110 We have we have Dr. Tier McMurtry, Dr. Tier McMurtry is a university professor 00:08:12.110 --> 00:08:14.840 at the university Alabama, Birmingham. 00:08:15.260 --> 00:08:17.720 She also is my wife and yeah. 00:08:18.155 --> 00:08:20.775 So but, you know, we have, we've been having these real interesting 00:08:20.775 --> 00:08:24.195 conversations about her students using artificial intelligence 00:08:24.195 --> 00:08:29.045 and how, how they use it and you know how to effectively use it. 00:08:29.295 --> 00:08:34.575 Also, you know she publishes a lot as well and, and how she uses artificial 00:08:34.575 --> 00:08:40.315 intelligence to, to publish these very very deep, thorough articles 00:08:40.315 --> 00:08:42.265 that are published into these. 00:08:42.920 --> 00:08:46.710 Major journals you know, so educational journals. 00:08:47.130 --> 00:08:48.420 That's one of, one of 'em. 00:08:48.420 --> 00:08:51.215 I also have a a, a dear friend of mine. 00:08:51.665 --> 00:08:55.780 Who is a, a professor at a community college in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 00:08:56.170 --> 00:08:59.170 And you know, we, we had a really good conversation. 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:02.530 Her, her brother, brother was my best friend and he passed 00:09:02.530 --> 00:09:04.030 away when he was around 27. 00:09:04.030 --> 00:09:08.310 So you know we, we just took a really interesting journey on, on our lives. 00:09:08.310 --> 00:09:11.820 We hadn't talked in, in years, so it was very fascinating. 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:12.750 I just hit her up. 00:09:13.230 --> 00:09:17.730 And, I have another friend Quan Dorsey, who, who used to be the I 00:09:17.730 --> 00:09:21.440 forget the name of the governor, but the governor of Kentucky. 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:23.970 It was the Democratic governor a few years back. 00:09:24.330 --> 00:09:28.410 And he used to be the elite community liaison person, and currently he's 00:09:28.410 --> 00:09:33.120 a, the the director of equity and inclusion for the school district 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:34.770 in Kentucky, in Louisville. 00:09:34.770 --> 00:09:35.640 I think it's Jefferson County. 00:09:36.010 --> 00:09:39.800 So, you know, and, and we, and we discussed you know, how equity and 00:09:39.800 --> 00:09:45.160 inclusion looks inside of artificial intelligence and also how it can be 00:09:45.160 --> 00:09:51.100 used to uplift communities and provide an additional resource for people. 00:09:51.160 --> 00:09:54.460 So, you know, we, we've, I, we've been having some really good conversations. 00:09:55.075 --> 00:09:55.585 Yeah. 00:09:55.635 --> 00:09:59.115 So those, those are gonna be coming out here in the next few weeks. 00:09:59.405 --> 00:10:02.375 Definitely stay subscribed, send it to your friends. 00:10:02.525 --> 00:10:06.215 Also leave ratings interviews in Apple podcasts. 00:10:06.215 --> 00:10:10.175 That is the best way to help other people see it and, and hear it. 00:10:10.485 --> 00:10:14.025 Part of the strategy that we're doing with this podcast is using a 00:10:14.025 --> 00:10:15.795 podcast feed that already exists. 00:10:16.190 --> 00:10:19.640 For people who are already interested in this topic, and some of you may have 00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:25.020 been listening for the augmented reality and artificial reality stuff that we 00:10:25.020 --> 00:10:30.025 have been talking about, I'm sorry if that if that's you and you don't want 00:10:30.025 --> 00:10:33.825 anything to do with this AI stuff but if that is you and you wanna do a podcast 00:10:33.825 --> 00:10:37.845 about that, I'm happy to help you get one started about that specific topic. 00:10:37.905 --> 00:10:39.555 We've had a lot of good stuff on here. 00:10:39.855 --> 00:10:42.735 Those episodes are still gonna stay, you'll still be able to find 00:10:42.735 --> 00:10:46.185 them and, and go back and listen to them and share them with people. 00:10:46.185 --> 00:10:50.465 We've had some really great guests but it's, it's also a good time 00:10:50.465 --> 00:10:52.295 to evolve and continue growing. 00:10:52.295 --> 00:10:57.135 So, the other thing that I wanted to chat with you about is we we had a 00:10:57.135 --> 00:11:01.495 little email conversation yesterday and today that, that I thought was, 00:11:02.005 --> 00:11:04.885 uh, was really good around this topic. 00:11:04.945 --> 00:11:11.965 And like so many things, the, the, the advent of AI has a way to disrupt 00:11:11.965 --> 00:11:13.765 and change how things are done. 00:11:14.185 --> 00:11:19.225 And one of the things that we were, we were talking about, I wrote a, a blog 00:11:19.225 --> 00:11:21.895 post yesterday and I shared it with you. 00:11:21.925 --> 00:11:28.365 And so that is at Jethro site slash oh, what was it? 00:11:29.475 --> 00:11:32.115 Jethro dot site slash Oh, very long thing. 00:11:32.235 --> 00:11:33.435 So I'll put it in the show notes. 00:11:33.535 --> 00:11:37.825 But we talked about students needing human relationships to thrive, and 00:11:37.955 --> 00:11:39.755 it was about an article from the 74. 00:11:40.460 --> 00:11:44.570 Million million that talked about where chatbots could start doing 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:48.680 a career in college counseling for high school students. 00:11:48.680 --> 00:11:54.590 And, and my, my big thing is that if we approach these problems from a certain 00:11:54.590 --> 00:12:00.560 perspective, I. Then the solutions don't actually solve the problem, and 00:12:00.560 --> 00:12:02.390 oftentimes they just exacerbate it. 00:12:02.390 --> 00:12:06.920 And one of my main approaches to education is that education is the 00:12:06.920 --> 00:12:13.130 responsibility of the family and the state steps in to support when that happens. 00:12:13.520 --> 00:12:18.120 And and you wrote back with a different perspective that I appreciated that 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:20.610 we'll get to in just a second, but. 00:12:21.090 --> 00:12:25.560 That did not take away from my original point. 00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:27.250 It was exactly the same. 00:12:27.700 --> 00:12:32.020 And the, the problem is, is that when we say that education is the 00:12:32.020 --> 00:12:37.210 state's responsibility, then we put all the pressure on the states to 00:12:37.210 --> 00:12:39.190 provide all of that and do everything. 00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:42.700 And, and they need to support students for sure. 00:12:43.090 --> 00:12:46.210 But if we flip it just a little bit and we say the responsibilities on 00:12:46.210 --> 00:12:48.010 the families and the state steps in. 00:12:48.355 --> 00:12:53.335 To help and support that is, that is a different approach. 00:12:53.455 --> 00:12:58.345 And so what to me that says is we can release the burden 00:12:58.795 --> 00:13:00.235 of taking care of everybody. 00:13:00.235 --> 00:13:04.525 And this is, I wanna read a quote from Julia Freeland Fisher from this article. 00:13:04.825 --> 00:13:08.545 She said, this is a domain where chatbots are especially likely to take hold. 00:13:08.935 --> 00:13:13.405 On average high schools have one guidance counselor for every 385 students. 00:13:14.575 --> 00:13:20.305 That perspective one counselor for every 385 students, that right there says it's 00:13:20.305 --> 00:13:26.635 my responsibility as a counselor to take care of these 385 students, is a lot. 00:13:26.725 --> 00:13:29.725 And it's impossible to keep track of that many kids as you're 00:13:29.725 --> 00:13:31.015 just not gonna be successful. 00:13:31.045 --> 00:13:35.275 But if we turn it around and we say that families are responsible for each 00:13:35.275 --> 00:13:39.055 one of their kids, which they are, regardless of what schools do or don't 00:13:39.055 --> 00:13:41.035 do, families are still responsible for it. 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:48.810 That can take the pressure off of that counselor if they have parents who are 00:13:48.810 --> 00:13:54.390 involved and engaged and really taking that responsibility seriously, which by 00:13:54.390 --> 00:13:59.550 the way, every single parent takes it as seriously as they possibly can and 00:13:59.550 --> 00:14:01.920 as responsibly as they possibly can. 00:14:03.195 --> 00:14:08.865 So we start from that framework, from that setup, and we say, alright, let's say 00:14:08.925 --> 00:14:15.465 that 200 of these 385 kids have a parent who is capable, involved and supporting. 00:14:15.765 --> 00:14:19.995 That leaves 185 students for that counselor to be in charge of making 00:14:19.995 --> 00:14:21.045 sure they get what they need. 00:14:21.525 --> 00:14:25.125 And I had you and one other person respond back and say, not 00:14:25.125 --> 00:14:26.565 every parent is capable of that. 00:14:26.685 --> 00:14:28.755 And boy, you're absolutely right. 00:14:28.785 --> 00:14:30.945 Do you wanna share your perspective on that real quick? 00:14:31.110 --> 00:14:31.680 Oh yeah. 00:14:31.780 --> 00:14:37.830 so, when I think about the parent being responsible, I think about my mama. 00:14:38.670 --> 00:14:40.670 You know, my mom had four kids at 20. 00:14:40.670 --> 00:14:42.980 By the time she was 21, she had four children. 00:14:43.550 --> 00:14:46.280 My mom come from, we come from a pretty decent family. 00:14:46.280 --> 00:14:51.370 I. You know education was something that was big in my family. 00:14:51.370 --> 00:14:55.220 As a matter of fact, we, I come from a lot of principals, a lot of administrators, 00:14:55.220 --> 00:14:59.690 reading specialists you know shucks, one of my aunties started a school, you know. 00:15:00.180 --> 00:15:04.170 So I come from, I come from, from, from big school but. 00:15:05.535 --> 00:15:10.815 I also come from the part, the portion of the family in which my mom, you 00:15:10.815 --> 00:15:15.015 know she didn't have the capacity to, to monitor our learning, whether or 00:15:15.015 --> 00:15:18.315 not she was a good person, whether or not she desired to be a good parent. 00:15:18.655 --> 00:15:20.450 It, it, it just wasn't there. 00:15:21.530 --> 00:15:24.540 One of the consequences of that were, is. 00:15:25.185 --> 00:15:29.805 Every last one of us had to repeat a grade, you know all four of her 00:15:29.805 --> 00:15:31.755 children had to re repeat a grade. 00:15:32.145 --> 00:15:37.125 And and, and when I was reading your response, I what I felt. 00:15:37.635 --> 00:15:43.255 And, you know, I do believe that parents have the responsibility to 00:15:43.285 --> 00:15:45.235 participate in the children's education. 00:15:45.235 --> 00:15:49.865 And if they do, they can take some burden off of the educators or the 00:15:49.865 --> 00:15:51.885 state sponsored educational system. 00:15:52.395 --> 00:15:56.745 But what I was saying in response was that. 00:15:57.264 --> 00:16:01.554 Yeah, you know, my mom and didn't have that, she didn't have the 00:16:01.554 --> 00:16:03.564 capacity to monitor our education. 00:16:03.984 --> 00:16:10.694 And teaching in this Birmingham, Alabama and Birmingham City Schools school system. 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:16.809 You have these, these very large populations of people who are just 00:16:16.809 --> 00:16:21.399 like my mom, like whole schools of parents who are like my mom. 00:16:21.849 --> 00:16:22.389 You know what I mean? 00:16:22.389 --> 00:16:27.009 They don't have the capacity to to monitor the educational system, but 00:16:27.009 --> 00:16:30.249 that also goes on a generational basis. 00:16:30.499 --> 00:16:32.179 Did their parent have the capacity? 00:16:32.179 --> 00:16:35.329 Their parent, grandparent have the capacity, their great grandparent 00:16:35.329 --> 00:16:38.719 have capacity, and if you keep on going to those greats, you, you 00:16:38.719 --> 00:16:43.309 wind up, especially in the African American community, you wind up in 00:16:43.339 --> 00:16:46.039 a pot of what is called slavery. 00:16:47.184 --> 00:16:47.904 You know what I mean? 00:16:47.904 --> 00:16:51.564 You, you, you, you are in slavery in which you are the product 00:16:51.564 --> 00:16:52.914 of somebody else's wealth. 00:16:53.394 --> 00:16:57.194 So being the product of somebody else's wealth and then thinking about 00:16:57.244 --> 00:17:01.054 generational trauma that keeps on going and going and going and these large 00:17:01.214 --> 00:17:05.354 portions of community, I, it's this lady by the name of Yvette Jackson. 00:17:05.444 --> 00:17:09.334 Yvette Jackson wrote this, this book, one of my favorite educational books is 00:17:09.334 --> 00:17:11.494 called The Pedi Pedagogy of Confidence. 00:17:11.944 --> 00:17:16.554 And what y Yvette Jackson said is that, just like you said, all 00:17:16.554 --> 00:17:19.624 parents want people to, to they want their children to learn. 00:17:19.954 --> 00:17:25.494 But Yvette Jackson just goes into say that so, so do the child, right? 00:17:25.494 --> 00:17:26.274 So do the child. 00:17:26.274 --> 00:17:27.959 The child wants to go ahead and to learn. 00:17:28.459 --> 00:17:30.919 I had thought about Yvette Jackson yesterday. 00:17:31.289 --> 00:17:33.749 And, and I didn't put her in into it. 00:17:34.029 --> 00:17:39.169 But nonetheless, when you, when you come from the product of somebody 00:17:39.169 --> 00:17:42.769 else's wealth, and then you have all of these generational issues, 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:44.869 and these two are state sponsored. 00:17:45.364 --> 00:17:52.549 I, I personally believe that it, it for certain populations it might be. 00:17:54.084 --> 00:17:59.799 Or, or, or a case of reparations to to to lean in a little bit 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:02.449 more on the state initiative. 00:18:03.019 --> 00:18:04.429 You know, that's how I feel. 00:18:06.091 --> 00:18:09.476 So you, you had this point about how. 00:18:09.991 --> 00:18:13.741 Parents may not have the capacity, and a whole group of parents 00:18:13.741 --> 00:18:14.911 may not have the capacity. 00:18:14.971 --> 00:18:21.541 And, and yet your mom and every other mom and every other dad out there wants 00:18:21.541 --> 00:18:26.851 their kids to be successful, wants their kids to succeed, and they may or 00:18:26.851 --> 00:18:28.531 may not have the ability to do that. 00:18:28.561 --> 00:18:33.451 And so what we do is we come in and provide support to them, and I had 00:18:33.451 --> 00:18:35.011 another person write me and say. 00:18:35.551 --> 00:18:39.751 Hey, I would've never thought of doing I would've never thought of 00:18:39.751 --> 00:18:43.651 going to college unless somebody from the school had mentioned it to me. 00:18:44.131 --> 00:18:46.141 And, and this is exactly my point. 00:18:46.141 --> 00:18:53.821 We need to enable those educators to assist where they are really needed and 00:18:53.821 --> 00:18:58.741 free up their opportunities free up their time to have those opportunities, to 00:18:58.741 --> 00:19:00.346 really assist those who really need it. 00:19:00.931 --> 00:19:06.391 And the reason why this all comes back to AI is that whole article was about AI 00:19:06.391 --> 00:19:12.421 taking over the, the counseling portion in high school and where that can be a 00:19:12.421 --> 00:19:13.171 benefit. 00:19:13.351 --> 00:19:18.571 And, and you said something specifically that I really appreciated, that it allows 00:19:18.901 --> 00:19:23.951 someone to get some support without judgment which is a very real thing 00:19:23.951 --> 00:19:26.561 that, you know, I, I'm a very smart 00:19:26.561 --> 00:19:27.011 person. 00:19:27.371 --> 00:19:29.381 And I know the education 00:19:29.381 --> 00:19:33.341 system and you would not believe how many times special educators 00:19:33.341 --> 00:19:34.571 have tried to make me feel 00:19:34.571 --> 00:19:39.071 dumb because I didn't understand or wanted something different for my 00:19:39.071 --> 00:19:39.581 daughter. 00:19:39.731 --> 00:19:44.981 And that just doesn't make any sense, and yet it happens, and I can only imagine 00:19:44.981 --> 00:19:49.601 how much worse that is for different marginalized communities that I'm not a 00:19:49.601 --> 00:19:51.821 member of in the disability arena. 00:19:51.821 --> 00:19:54.911 I definitely do understand that because that has been my 00:19:54.911 --> 00:19:56.441 experience, so. 00:19:56.816 --> 00:20:01.836 So this idea of, of somebody being able to get a space free from judgment where 00:20:01.836 --> 00:20:05.346 they can get support, where they can get guidance, they can get what they 00:20:05.346 --> 00:20:08.136 need and it will respect their dignity. 00:20:08.136 --> 00:20:09.636 I think that's absolutely 00:20:10.026 --> 00:20:13.644 a powerful thing for, Parents have access 00:20:13.644 --> 00:20:16.514 to, Especially when they don't have the skills otherwise. 00:20:16.574 --> 00:20:18.134 And what a blessing that could 00:20:18.134 --> 00:20:22.154 be for them to go do the research, learn what they need to say, and then 00:20:22.154 --> 00:20:23.504 go have the confrontation with the 00:20:23.504 --> 00:20:23.864 teacher. 00:20:23.894 --> 00:20:26.204 'cause you do a lot better when you have the 00:20:26.204 --> 00:20:27.974 knowledge and information back you up. 00:20:27.974 --> 00:20:28.364 Yes. 00:20:28.634 --> 00:20:34.094 You know, I, You know, I always do like this reflection on, on, on, on how I grew 00:20:34.094 --> 00:20:36.214 up when I, when I talk about these things. 00:20:36.814 --> 00:20:40.404 And, when I went to college, I didn't have anybody help me out. 00:20:40.404 --> 00:20:43.884 I, I didn't even have the guidance counselor, you know. 00:20:43.914 --> 00:20:51.094 I went to a largely white populated school in which I was one outta 2000 students. 00:20:51.434 --> 00:20:55.284 I was, one of a hundred people who were not white. 00:20:55.824 --> 00:20:58.524 I'm talking about from all different ethnic groups as well. 00:20:58.984 --> 00:21:01.894 I didn't, a guidance counselor didn't bother. 00:21:01.894 --> 00:21:08.799 I. Me with, with, with college or, or, or, or career goals or anything. 00:21:09.219 --> 00:21:13.089 And with, with that sidestep what artificial intelligence would 00:21:13.089 --> 00:21:17.139 have been able to do, would have been able to, to teach me about 00:21:17.169 --> 00:21:18.849 learning about financial aid to. 00:21:19.199 --> 00:21:24.909 To to, to tell me different kinds of, of trade schools that I could go to 00:21:24.909 --> 00:21:31.119 or, or even doing an assessment to, to figure out my interest, you know? 00:21:31.189 --> 00:21:35.319 So, you know, I I, I, I believe that I, artificial intelligence. 00:21:35.564 --> 00:21:40.744 In this aspect would most definitely be beneficial and can take off the, 00:21:40.744 --> 00:21:43.744 of the pressure, but not only take off the pressure of the counselors 00:21:44.134 --> 00:21:49.554 and also for people who, who are, are, are not seen in the community by the 00:21:49.554 --> 00:21:51.564 counselors, you know, just because. 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:55.549 They're not causing a trouble and, and, you know, they don't 00:21:55.549 --> 00:22:00.179 open up their mouth, you know so I I, I'm, I'm with you on that. 00:22:00.229 --> 00:22:03.919 I believe the 100% that artificial intelligence is something 00:22:04.009 --> 00:22:05.179 that, that people can use. 00:22:05.569 --> 00:22:09.829 And, and, and just like many of the families that I deal with in Birmingham, 00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:13.054 like some of these, some of these parents, they, they have no clue. 00:22:13.889 --> 00:22:17.194 And if they did have some assistance with artificial intelligence, 00:22:17.224 --> 00:22:19.474 first of all, they gotta have somebody to teach 'em how to use it. 00:22:19.834 --> 00:22:23.804 But but if they had some artificial intelligence assistance, you know, 00:22:23.804 --> 00:22:27.764 they'll be able to discover a, a ton of things that wouldn't, that wouldn't 00:22:27.764 --> 00:22:29.564 even have come into their mind. 00:22:30.074 --> 00:22:30.464 So. 00:22:31.289 --> 00:22:31.679 Yeah. 00:22:32.189 --> 00:22:36.479 and and that piece there that, you can really explore things that had 00:22:36.479 --> 00:22:38.669 not even come into your mind before. 00:22:38.909 --> 00:22:41.039 I, I got another quick story about this. 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:46.949 In 2013, I started building my website, Jethro Jones dot com. 00:22:47.399 --> 00:22:52.899 And as I did that, I tried doing a website built in Jekyll, which is 00:22:52.899 --> 00:22:55.389 a specific static site generator. 00:22:55.719 --> 00:22:56.439 It's pretty nerdy. 00:22:56.859 --> 00:22:57.699 I tried it. 00:22:57.909 --> 00:22:59.109 I couldn't get it to work. 00:22:59.109 --> 00:23:01.629 I didn't know where to turn, and I gave up. 00:23:02.124 --> 00:23:06.544 And 10 years later I decided to try it again. 00:23:07.024 --> 00:23:13.264 And the difference was that I had chat, GPT, and so I would ask 00:23:13.264 --> 00:23:15.424 chat, GPT, why this wasn't working. 00:23:16.054 --> 00:23:22.174 Then it would tell me what I needed to fix, and I don't know how to do coding. 00:23:22.204 --> 00:23:27.604 I am not a programmer, but I know enough that I can understand some things. 00:23:27.664 --> 00:23:30.454 And then I told it as it was fixing things for me. 00:23:30.454 --> 00:23:34.744 I said, be very explicit in your comments and explain every single 00:23:34.744 --> 00:23:36.274 line so I know what's happening. 00:23:36.424 --> 00:23:39.664 And I've been able to learn and understand and start fixing 00:23:39.664 --> 00:23:41.434 problems that I didn't know. 00:23:42.094 --> 00:23:46.654 Were problems before, but now when it's not working, I can say, oh, I think I 00:23:46.654 --> 00:23:51.844 know what's what the problem is because I've used AI to help me figure it 00:23:51.844 --> 00:23:53.314 out and learn these different things. 00:23:53.644 --> 00:23:58.204 And it has taken me to a new level of confidence and belief 00:23:58.204 --> 00:24:03.964 in myself, which is like so silly and so amazing at the same time. 00:24:04.054 --> 00:24:06.274 And, and that's where like. 00:24:06.964 --> 00:24:09.094 Those things for me, that's great. 00:24:09.364 --> 00:24:12.844 Those things for someone who, who didn't think they could ever even 00:24:12.844 --> 00:24:15.034 go to college, even more powerful. 00:24:15.064 --> 00:24:19.054 Someone who didn't think they could ever have a business or make a positive 00:24:19.054 --> 00:24:21.874 impact on society even more powerful. 00:24:21.874 --> 00:24:25.564 And that's, that's the kind of thing that I want to open up, that's kind of 00:24:25.564 --> 00:24:30.269 thing that I want to see more of in, in our system and, and do things that, that 00:24:30.269 --> 00:24:32.249 open the doors more for more people. 00:24:32.424 --> 00:24:32.844 Mm-hmm. 00:24:33.149 --> 00:24:33.419 Yeah. 00:24:33.499 --> 00:24:37.729 Big on the confidence thing and, and like you I have all of 00:24:37.729 --> 00:24:41.809 these big, big ideas, you know? 00:24:42.169 --> 00:24:46.784 I. I remember as a young man I grew up in the church and my granddad was pastor. 00:24:46.784 --> 00:24:48.224 He had a little storefront church. 00:24:48.294 --> 00:24:50.964 At the most, we had 45 people would be there. 00:24:51.484 --> 00:24:54.444 You know and that's a, that's, that's probably we serving food. 00:24:54.894 --> 00:24:57.384 You know, food is being served that Sunday. 00:24:57.824 --> 00:25:00.294 But, but I don't know. 00:25:00.924 --> 00:25:06.354 I, so, so, so what happens to me is that I will go onto a story and then 00:25:06.354 --> 00:25:09.864 I would do something like cough and then all of a sudden the story is gone. 00:25:09.864 --> 00:25:10.644 It is like magic. 00:25:15.109 --> 00:25:18.054 Not a good kind of magic, not a good kind of magic. 00:25:18.469 --> 00:25:19.999 I know if I'm gonna catch that one back. 00:25:20.999 --> 00:25:24.419 I don't know if this is, normally, this doesn't happen this much, but 00:25:24.419 --> 00:25:27.719 since I've been talking to Jethro, this has happened three times. 00:25:27.719 --> 00:25:29.159 I've been putting tally marks down, 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:29.639 so, 00:25:29.699 --> 00:25:31.769 Hey, I, I have, I have that effect on 00:25:31.769 --> 00:25:32.219 people. 00:25:32.219 --> 00:25:33.124 I don't know what to say. 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:33.809 Yeah. 00:25:34.679 --> 00:25:36.149 Nonetheless, I love my granddad. 00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:36.869 How about that? 00:25:37.934 --> 00:25:38.784 Yeah, that works. 00:25:38.974 --> 00:25:39.544 I'll take it. 00:25:40.574 --> 00:25:43.004 So we're gonna wrap up the conversation here. 00:25:43.104 --> 00:25:47.514 We're gonna have some great stuff coming out from from Eli on this 00:25:47.514 --> 00:25:50.274 podcast, AI and Education, real Talk. 00:25:50.524 --> 00:25:51.724 It's gonna be fantastic. 00:25:51.724 --> 00:25:54.544 I hope you stick around for it and I hope you share it with others. 00:25:54.814 --> 00:25:59.744 And if you got ideas or suggestions of who Eli should have on just reach out anytime. 00:25:59.774 --> 00:26:00.674 We'd love to hear from you. 00:26:00.674 --> 00:26:02.594 What's the best way for people to get in touch with you, 00:26:02.904 --> 00:26:06.964 All right, so you can, you can get in contact with me through my email. 00:26:06.964 --> 00:26:11.434 It's HRIA, MLL c@gmail.com. 00:26:12.094 --> 00:26:15.984 And, um, you know, I do have social media, but I really 00:26:15.984 --> 00:26:17.604 don't do social media like that. 00:26:17.994 --> 00:26:20.254 So I don't, I I I don't check it. 00:26:20.254 --> 00:26:23.424 So essentially email will be the best way. 00:26:23.824 --> 00:26:28.084 100%. And also, lemme just say this because not only are the people 00:26:28.084 --> 00:26:31.264 that are current listeners, they're gonna be people that's, that's 00:26:31.264 --> 00:26:34.869 going to be coming onto this podcast That, that I'm gonna bring on. 00:26:35.389 --> 00:26:41.479 And so what I have to say is one, if you have an idea of artificial 00:26:41.479 --> 00:26:46.049 intelligence or you are exploring artificial intelligence in a way that 00:26:46.049 --> 00:26:51.409 you don't think that other people are in engaged in, most definitely hit me up. 00:26:51.409 --> 00:26:52.159 Let me know. 00:26:52.259 --> 00:26:55.409 I also wanted, 'cause I'm gonna send this to everybody, I'm also wanna 00:26:55.409 --> 00:26:58.739 say, hey, thank you for everybody who has been doing the podcast. 00:26:58.789 --> 00:27:05.489 I am honored and I am very interested in having these very good conversations 00:27:05.489 --> 00:27:11.099 on artificial intelligence and how to explore using it within education, 00:27:11.129 --> 00:27:13.409 the whole entire frame of education. 00:27:14.609 --> 00:27:18.089 With a very critical component on it. 00:27:18.089 --> 00:27:22.179 So when I say critical, I mean we want to examine power structures with 00:27:22.179 --> 00:27:25.899 artificial intelligence and how those power structures establish themselves. 00:27:26.379 --> 00:27:30.363 So with that said, I just wanna say thank you very much Jeff Row. 00:27:30.413 --> 00:27:35.693 I appreciate you passing this baton and I am going to do it. 00:27:36.053 --> 00:27:37.343 To death. 00:27:37.673 --> 00:27:41.513 We are gonna have a, we're gonna have an amazing, we're gonna have an amazing time. 00:27:41.813 --> 00:27:43.373 And I get to take the reins. 00:27:43.433 --> 00:27:46.373 And hopefully the people that are out there are already on there. 00:27:46.743 --> 00:27:49.443 You stay, you stay a attuned because. 00:27:50.193 --> 00:27:54.693 Just like Dale and I, the science guy said, everybody has the ability to 00:27:54.693 --> 00:27:56.763 learn from everybody that they meet. 00:27:57.033 --> 00:27:59.803 So hopefully I can learn from you and you can learn from me.