1 00:00:13,370 --> 00:00:17,166 Everyone, welcome to the Cultivate podcast with the Grove church. Thank 2 00:00:17,188 --> 00:00:20,906 you so much for joining us. I'm Charlie Lofton, the lead pastor 3 00:00:20,938 --> 00:00:24,586 there, and we have Mark Freeman here with us. What's up, dude? It's 4 00:00:24,618 --> 00:00:28,434 good. You prepared to continue to be our Old Testament minor 5 00:00:28,482 --> 00:00:31,894 prophet expert? I have grown in knowledge since our last 6 00:00:31,932 --> 00:00:34,790 podcast. Really? Oh, yes. That's impressive. 7 00:00:36,570 --> 00:00:40,342 Your head seems marginally larger. It's like, it's just your brain is 8 00:00:40,476 --> 00:00:44,122 getting bigger. Hey. Yeah, so Mark and I 9 00:00:44,176 --> 00:00:47,434 are on staff together at the Grove church. And again, thank you so much for 10 00:00:47,472 --> 00:00:51,162 joining us, especially if you are new. Really glad that you have found 11 00:00:51,216 --> 00:00:55,014 us. And we are starting today a series 12 00:00:55,062 --> 00:00:58,746 where we're just kind of working our way through the minor profits. 13 00:00:58,858 --> 00:01:02,366 And last week we kind of intro the idea just to kind of make sure 14 00:01:02,388 --> 00:01:05,406 we all understood what we meant when we said that we were going through the 15 00:01:05,428 --> 00:01:09,134 minor profits. We talked about what makes a prophet, a minor prophet versus 16 00:01:09,182 --> 00:01:12,642 a major one, which is at its core length of the book, 17 00:01:12,776 --> 00:01:16,562 not quality of prophet, and that a prophet is someone who God gives 18 00:01:16,616 --> 00:01:20,398 a message to, to deliver to a certain group of people. And then 19 00:01:20,424 --> 00:01:23,798 we also talked a little bit about the history of Israel and the splitting of 20 00:01:23,804 --> 00:01:27,494 the kingdoms and those sorts of things to kind of help us put each one 21 00:01:27,532 --> 00:01:31,010 of these in a historical context. 22 00:01:31,170 --> 00:01:34,714 And so we're just going to take these in order. 23 00:01:34,832 --> 00:01:38,518 And so today we are starting with the prophet Hosea. 24 00:01:38,694 --> 00:01:42,206 Hosea. And this is actually, to me, here's the thing. It was 25 00:01:42,228 --> 00:01:44,990 like 14 chapters. 26 00:01:46,210 --> 00:01:49,646 Yeah. I feel like Hosea, man, he's on the 27 00:01:49,668 --> 00:01:53,486 fence. That seems long enough 28 00:01:53,508 --> 00:01:57,262 to be a major prophet. Oh, yeah. Book of Daniel is not much longer 29 00:01:57,316 --> 00:02:00,546 than that. Right. It's kind of a decent book, even like some of these other 30 00:02:00,568 --> 00:02:04,258 ones. You can tell definitely. That's why he splits the difference. He's right there in 31 00:02:04,264 --> 00:02:07,526 the middle. It's a little bit like maybe you get to decide for 32 00:02:07,548 --> 00:02:10,600 yourself. Yeah, it surprised me going back to it, 33 00:02:11,690 --> 00:02:15,222 because there's this big picture thing that he's saying 34 00:02:15,276 --> 00:02:18,360 and illustration that he's giving us. And 35 00:02:19,210 --> 00:02:22,394 you don't think about it being 14 chapters? No, it is. Yeah, it 36 00:02:22,432 --> 00:02:26,266 is. All right, so historically, we got this 37 00:02:26,288 --> 00:02:29,994 prophet, Hosea, and he's, again, like you said, he's got a pretty 38 00:02:30,032 --> 00:02:33,806 significant message and a wild way that 39 00:02:33,828 --> 00:02:37,626 God is having him illustrate this deal. But let's 40 00:02:37,658 --> 00:02:41,502 set it in its historical context. Where are we in the history 41 00:02:41,556 --> 00:02:44,946 of the jewish people at the time that Hosea is making these 42 00:02:45,128 --> 00:02:48,702 prophecies? Okay, so if I'm right. It's 43 00:02:48,766 --> 00:02:52,274 during one of the reign, the reign of one of the worst kings that they 44 00:02:52,312 --> 00:02:55,986 had. Jeroboam II. Yes. Kind of 45 00:02:56,008 --> 00:02:58,760 focused on the northern kingdom. Right. 46 00:02:59,450 --> 00:03:03,254 200 years after this is after the split. Right. So we had three 47 00:03:03,292 --> 00:03:07,014 kings that were under a united monarchy, and then they split into two. 48 00:03:07,052 --> 00:03:10,250 The northern kingdom being Israel, the southern kingdom being Judah. 49 00:03:10,830 --> 00:03:14,554 Okay, so side question. Side question. So you got these 50 00:03:14,592 --> 00:03:18,314 two kingdoms, and normally when we talk, we just 51 00:03:18,432 --> 00:03:21,738 know we're talking about Israel and we know Judah's 52 00:03:21,754 --> 00:03:25,502 in there somewhere. How does that work into these? 53 00:03:25,636 --> 00:03:28,560 Are most of the prophets talking to one or the other, 54 00:03:28,930 --> 00:03:32,766 or is it to both? How should we 55 00:03:32,788 --> 00:03:35,600 view that? Well, I mean, there's a sense in 56 00:03:36,370 --> 00:03:40,034 mean, the fact that they're recorded in the Bible means that big picture that God 57 00:03:40,072 --> 00:03:43,906 wanted to have, wanted to have the broadest of audiences. He wants 58 00:03:43,928 --> 00:03:47,526 us to still be reading it and learning something from it. And so in the 59 00:03:47,548 --> 00:03:49,800 broadest sense, the answer is it's for everybody. 60 00:03:51,370 --> 00:03:54,806 And I think there are some that I think that we're going to see that 61 00:03:54,828 --> 00:03:58,566 are very, very targeted. The story of Jonah, for 62 00:03:58,588 --> 00:04:02,346 instance, is about a very specific message through a 63 00:04:02,368 --> 00:04:06,090 group of people that aren't even Israelites. This was something that, a message 64 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,782 that God had given to Jonah, to the Ninevites, which is this gentile 65 00:04:09,846 --> 00:04:13,582 group of people. And I think that we'll see some things like that where 66 00:04:13,716 --> 00:04:17,294 this is a very targeted message to a very 67 00:04:17,332 --> 00:04:20,990 specific group of people. And I think there are going to be some that 68 00:04:21,060 --> 00:04:24,820 are kind of addressing everybody all at once, 69 00:04:25,510 --> 00:04:29,266 but from time to time, he'll call one particular 70 00:04:29,368 --> 00:04:33,086 group out. That's the thing I feel like I noticed in Hosea, there's 71 00:04:33,118 --> 00:04:36,898 like, he seems to be, I was going to say a lot of 72 00:04:36,904 --> 00:04:39,958 bullets in his gun, but this is way older than that. He's got a lot 73 00:04:39,964 --> 00:04:43,682 of arrows in his quiver, and he seems to be shooting 74 00:04:43,746 --> 00:04:46,790 most of those arrows at the northern kingdom. 75 00:04:47,690 --> 00:04:51,434 But he does mention Judah from time to time as 76 00:04:51,472 --> 00:04:55,114 well. Is that your impression? And I think there's also this 77 00:04:55,152 --> 00:04:58,394 sense, too. So it's a little bit like, if you say, hey, 78 00:04:58,432 --> 00:05:01,926 guys, what you mean by that is kind of different on the context. 79 00:05:02,118 --> 00:05:05,886 If it's a mixed group, you may be talking to everybody, 80 00:05:06,068 --> 00:05:09,630 or if it's a group of guys over here and a group of women 81 00:05:09,700 --> 00:05:13,482 over here, and you say guys, and context 82 00:05:13,546 --> 00:05:17,226 kind of tells you whether or not you're talking to just the guys or you're 83 00:05:17,258 --> 00:05:20,978 using it as an overarching term. I know not all women love the 84 00:05:20,984 --> 00:05:23,586 fact that you may say guys and refer to everybody, I'm just using that as 85 00:05:23,608 --> 00:05:27,446 an example, but it's the same kind of deal with Israel. There's some instances in 86 00:05:27,468 --> 00:05:31,014 which Israel may mean everybody who is 87 00:05:31,132 --> 00:05:34,230 of jewish descent, or he may be 88 00:05:34,380 --> 00:05:37,946 specifically referring to the northern kingdom of 89 00:05:37,968 --> 00:05:41,626 Israel. And I found in Hosea he also used 90 00:05:41,808 --> 00:05:44,700 the word ephraim. Did you notice that? Right. 91 00:05:46,270 --> 00:05:49,850 So Ephraim is just one of the tribes, 92 00:05:50,350 --> 00:05:54,126 and it's an unusual thing. And so did 93 00:05:54,148 --> 00:05:57,406 you look it up? Because I looked it up. I didn't. I looked it up 94 00:05:57,428 --> 00:06:01,022 because I was like, why Israel and Judah? I understand that. 95 00:06:01,156 --> 00:06:04,180 Then who's Ephraim? Right. I knew that 96 00:06:04,950 --> 00:06:08,558 that particular tribe was one of the eleven tribes 97 00:06:08,734 --> 00:06:12,180 that was in the northern kingdom. And I think 98 00:06:14,150 --> 00:06:17,160 the impression that I got, if we're going to keep using my guys, 99 00:06:19,610 --> 00:06:23,366 if guys is everybody and women is women, and 100 00:06:23,388 --> 00:06:26,886 so then guys is Israel and Judah and women is Judah. That 101 00:06:26,908 --> 00:06:30,502 Ephraim is kind of shorthand for very specifically 102 00:06:30,566 --> 00:06:34,170 making sure he is talking about the northern kingdom, that 103 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,974 since Israel can have a broader 104 00:06:38,022 --> 00:06:41,786 context, he is making it very clear when he says Ephraim 105 00:06:41,898 --> 00:06:45,546 that he's referring very specifically to the northern 106 00:06:45,578 --> 00:06:49,120 kingdom of Israel. Was there anything specific about them in 107 00:06:49,730 --> 00:06:53,230 their level of disobedience? 108 00:06:54,390 --> 00:06:58,238 Is there anything that would make him call them out in particular? I'm not aware 109 00:06:58,254 --> 00:06:59,300 of such a thing. 110 00:07:02,310 --> 00:07:05,954 Interesting. All right, so we're 111 00:07:06,002 --> 00:07:09,846 in the late, I 112 00:07:09,868 --> 00:07:11,990 guess early eigth century BC, 113 00:07:13,850 --> 00:07:17,334 targeting primarily the northern kingdom, but a little bit. Enough 114 00:07:17,372 --> 00:07:20,758 arrows for everybody. Primarily during the reign 115 00:07:20,854 --> 00:07:24,522 of Jeroboam II. And also 116 00:07:24,576 --> 00:07:27,754 at the same time, seemed like there were a lot of different. Like 117 00:07:27,872 --> 00:07:31,694 Judah was experiencing a lot more turnover in kings, some 118 00:07:31,732 --> 00:07:35,402 good, some bad. But Jeroboam II 119 00:07:35,466 --> 00:07:38,510 was considered. He was one of the worst. 120 00:07:39,410 --> 00:07:42,800 So Hosea's got a whole lot of things to say. 121 00:07:43,170 --> 00:07:46,818 And so I guess before we get to the content of what he said, 122 00:07:46,984 --> 00:07:50,386 we have to start with. Before we get to the content of what he say. 123 00:07:50,488 --> 00:07:53,570 The book starts with an interaction 124 00:07:53,910 --> 00:07:57,320 between God and Hosea, where God asks Hosea to do something 125 00:07:58,090 --> 00:08:01,926 and then it plays out. You want to give us kind of 126 00:08:01,948 --> 00:08:05,734 the highlights of that. What was going on in those first couple 127 00:08:05,772 --> 00:08:09,578 chapters? Yeah, I mean, asking him to marry a 128 00:08:09,584 --> 00:08:13,420 prostitute and to have children with her 129 00:08:14,110 --> 00:08:17,020 and then specifically names the children 130 00:08:18,110 --> 00:08:21,646 some really difficult names that you 131 00:08:21,668 --> 00:08:25,454 wouldn't. Right. I don't think we would choose to name our 132 00:08:25,492 --> 00:08:29,006 kids. It just calls Hosea to do a 133 00:08:29,028 --> 00:08:32,138 really difficult thing, to make an illustration 134 00:08:32,234 --> 00:08:35,954 that's man it's really powerful and 135 00:08:35,992 --> 00:08:39,250 it. Seems like they're married 136 00:08:40,470 --> 00:08:44,206 and that some bad things happen and she leaves 137 00:08:44,238 --> 00:08:47,240 him and he has to go and get her back. 138 00:08:48,250 --> 00:08:52,038 So he marries someone that at a 139 00:08:52,044 --> 00:08:55,880 minimum, there is some debate about whether or not she was 140 00:08:56,330 --> 00:09:00,154 most definitely a prostitute. If it 141 00:09:00,192 --> 00:09:03,514 was God predicting that she was going to be an 142 00:09:03,552 --> 00:09:06,986 unfaithful wife, if she was just someone 143 00:09:07,088 --> 00:09:07,740 who 144 00:09:11,170 --> 00:09:14,958 know, already known to be someone who was 145 00:09:15,124 --> 00:09:18,062 having sex outside of marriage. But 146 00:09:18,116 --> 00:09:21,486 regardless, God was putting Hosea into a 147 00:09:21,508 --> 00:09:24,420 situation to marry someone 148 00:09:25,030 --> 00:09:28,850 that God knew was not going to be faithful to Hosea and probably 149 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,706 already had some sort of inclination that she 150 00:09:32,728 --> 00:09:36,406 was already currently not being faithful. And 151 00:09:36,428 --> 00:09:39,480 then they get married and 152 00:09:42,090 --> 00:09:45,846 she is unfaithful and now she's living with some other dude, it looks 153 00:09:45,868 --> 00:09:49,560 like, and God says, and go and bring her back. 154 00:09:50,810 --> 00:09:53,718 So I don't know if you've got a great answer to this question. I don't 155 00:09:53,734 --> 00:09:57,366 think I've got a great answer to this question. So maybe we can just banter 156 00:09:57,398 --> 00:10:00,734 about either, both of our insufficient answers to this 157 00:10:00,772 --> 00:10:04,206 question. Why would God do 158 00:10:04,228 --> 00:10:04,800 this? 159 00:10:09,810 --> 00:10:13,558 Yeah, I mean, putting myself in Hosea's shoes, I've always felt 160 00:10:13,594 --> 00:10:17,298 like, my goodness, man, and a lot of these prophets, I mean, the things that 161 00:10:17,304 --> 00:10:20,594 they were called to do were 162 00:10:20,632 --> 00:10:24,402 just hard, difficult things for God 163 00:10:24,456 --> 00:10:28,226 to get his message across to Israel. Right. But I don't 164 00:10:28,258 --> 00:10:31,574 know that there's one that to me is more difficult than 165 00:10:31,612 --> 00:10:34,760 this man 166 00:10:36,330 --> 00:10:40,086 to love, to trust, and to 167 00:10:40,108 --> 00:10:43,270 have trust broken and then to forgive 168 00:10:43,610 --> 00:10:47,160 and he even has to pay 169 00:10:48,010 --> 00:10:51,038 to get her back. Right. And the 170 00:10:51,044 --> 00:10:54,346 forgiveness, all of the commitment, it's 171 00:10:54,378 --> 00:10:57,440 just. Yeah. Why would God do. 172 00:11:00,130 --> 00:11:03,902 He wants to make his point. His point is very important. He's definitely making 173 00:11:03,956 --> 00:11:07,362 a point, is a point that I feel like that could be told as well 174 00:11:07,416 --> 00:11:11,154 with a parable. You know what I mean? Let 175 00:11:11,192 --> 00:11:14,958 me tell you a story about a guy who took on a wife 176 00:11:15,054 --> 00:11:18,294 knowing that she was going to be unfaithful to 177 00:11:18,332 --> 00:11:21,974 him and he loved her and then she was 178 00:11:22,012 --> 00:11:25,814 unfaithful to him and then he went because he 179 00:11:25,852 --> 00:11:29,526 loved her so much and paid a price to get her 180 00:11:29,548 --> 00:11:33,306 back even though she was unfaithful to him. And then he were 181 00:11:33,328 --> 00:11:36,634 to say, and that is how God is with you. He has taken on 182 00:11:36,672 --> 00:11:40,262 you and he loves you, knowing that you're going to be unfaithful. 183 00:11:40,326 --> 00:11:43,774 And when you are unfaithful, he will go to where you 184 00:11:43,812 --> 00:11:47,214 are and pay a price for you to bring you 185 00:11:47,252 --> 00:11:50,654 back. The very powerful statement. Very 186 00:11:50,692 --> 00:11:53,700 powerful statement for them in that time 187 00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:57,726 has an overwhelming amount of foreshadowing 188 00:11:57,918 --> 00:12:00,180 or dare I say 189 00:12:00,870 --> 00:12:04,606 prophecy about the coming of Jesus. 190 00:12:04,718 --> 00:12:08,426 Right. So the message is very clear. It's powerful. 191 00:12:08,558 --> 00:12:11,830 I think most of us without a whole lot of Bible study 192 00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:15,734 help can get that 193 00:12:15,772 --> 00:12:19,500 big picture message. There's something about it, man, 194 00:12:19,870 --> 00:12:23,594 that he asked Hosea to do it, to live 195 00:12:23,632 --> 00:12:27,226 it mean 196 00:12:27,328 --> 00:12:31,166 that is driving the point home. Well, in 197 00:12:31,188 --> 00:12:35,018 Hosea's personal, the depths 198 00:12:35,034 --> 00:12:38,400 of understanding that he would have 199 00:12:39,010 --> 00:12:40,720 on the other side of, 200 00:12:43,170 --> 00:12:45,570 I think there is something about the messenger 201 00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:50,162 understanding it at those depths. It's not just a story. I 202 00:12:50,216 --> 00:12:53,986 experienced this, but in order for. It to be, and this is kind 203 00:12:54,008 --> 00:12:56,806 of where I don't know if I'm letting God off the hook or I'm just 204 00:12:56,828 --> 00:13:00,454 trying to make the story more palatable to me. But 205 00:13:00,492 --> 00:13:02,680 in order for Hosea to 206 00:13:03,850 --> 00:13:07,654 really understand the message he would have needed 207 00:13:07,692 --> 00:13:11,446 to have loved her, it 208 00:13:11,468 --> 00:13:13,994 wouldn't be like, hey, go take this woman you don't even know, don't even care 209 00:13:14,032 --> 00:13:17,786 about, don't even worry and bring into your house, make 210 00:13:17,808 --> 00:13:21,120 her a wife or one of your wives or whatever because 211 00:13:22,290 --> 00:13:25,806 I'm going to play this out so people can see it and be 212 00:13:25,828 --> 00:13:28,720 like, whatever, I guess. But 213 00:13:30,930 --> 00:13:34,574 again, what you're saying for this to really have driven 214 00:13:34,622 --> 00:13:38,354 home in the heart of Hosea, I think this 215 00:13:38,392 --> 00:13:42,162 is something that was lived out and almost 216 00:13:42,216 --> 00:13:46,034 for me. And again, I am 217 00:13:46,072 --> 00:13:48,820 clearly putting an asterisk next to this. 218 00:13:50,330 --> 00:13:53,938 To me, when the story is written 219 00:13:54,034 --> 00:13:57,866 is probably after it has already happened. And 220 00:13:57,888 --> 00:14:00,860 part of me, the way that it feels like it reads is 221 00:14:02,750 --> 00:14:06,410 mean. This is who's Hosea married? 222 00:14:07,550 --> 00:14:11,130 And I think God knew she was going to be unfaithful. 223 00:14:11,790 --> 00:14:14,510 And maybe at that moment, Jose maybe didn't, 224 00:14:15,650 --> 00:14:19,342 then she was unfaithful. And then the big 225 00:14:19,396 --> 00:14:23,218 thing that God called him to do was 226 00:14:23,224 --> 00:14:26,174 to go and get her back. But upon 227 00:14:26,222 --> 00:14:29,922 reflection, Hosea realizes, hey, God 228 00:14:29,976 --> 00:14:33,506 wanted me to marry her. I loved her and he called me to 229 00:14:33,528 --> 00:14:37,222 marry her. But he knew then maybe something 230 00:14:37,276 --> 00:14:41,074 that Hosea didn't know then. God knew from the beginning 231 00:14:41,122 --> 00:14:44,834 she was going to be unfaithful. But even still, at a minimum, 232 00:14:44,882 --> 00:14:48,470 Hosea knew that she had already been unfaithful to him 233 00:14:48,620 --> 00:14:51,880 when he went to go pay to bring her back. 234 00:14:52,490 --> 00:14:55,450 Now I've got a question too, and maybe I'm just going to say this question. 235 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,226 You're going to give me eyebrows and you're going to put it back to me 236 00:14:59,248 --> 00:15:01,680 because again, I don't know that I've got a great answer to this. Either 237 00:15:03,330 --> 00:15:07,134 he says, call and have a son and name your 238 00:15:07,172 --> 00:15:10,254 son this and name your daughter this, and one of them is 239 00:15:10,292 --> 00:15:14,094 named not loved. Right? The daughter, 240 00:15:14,142 --> 00:15:17,682 right? Yeah. There's a daughter name. Yeah. Not 241 00:15:17,736 --> 00:15:20,930 loved. Do we think that's metaphorical? 242 00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:25,558 And it's just like, hey, think about 243 00:15:25,644 --> 00:15:29,446 her. Like, just in my 244 00:15:29,468 --> 00:15:32,886 brain, it's like, hosea's got a daughter, and he's just like, hey, 245 00:15:33,068 --> 00:15:35,480 not loved. Come here. 246 00:15:36,970 --> 00:15:37,720 What? 247 00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:44,106 It was more a symbolic, but, like, her name was 248 00:15:44,128 --> 00:15:47,914 Jennifer, but just, like, 249 00:15:47,952 --> 00:15:49,930 symbolically, for the purposes 250 00:15:51,490 --> 00:15:55,146 of this book that we're writing, this prophecy that we're 251 00:15:55,178 --> 00:15:58,942 putting together, I want you to think 252 00:15:58,996 --> 00:16:02,826 of these children that you have in these stages that I'm 253 00:16:02,858 --> 00:16:06,706 taking Israel through. But as 254 00:16:06,728 --> 00:16:10,414 a dad of three daughters, in my heart, I just cannot really imagine that Hosea 255 00:16:10,462 --> 00:16:14,194 had, I'm sorry, dad. Why do you call me not loved? God 256 00:16:14,232 --> 00:16:18,018 told me. I don't know. You had any response 257 00:16:18,034 --> 00:16:21,606 to that or you just kind of like, because the story is 258 00:16:21,628 --> 00:16:25,000 wild. The story is wild. And then it always 259 00:16:26,650 --> 00:16:30,060 makes us uncomfortable. And so, 260 00:16:32,110 --> 00:16:35,882 like you said a minute ago, we start wanting to give God 261 00:16:35,936 --> 00:16:39,738 an out, but it makes it really difficult to pick which parts of 262 00:16:39,744 --> 00:16:43,580 this we think were real and which ones. 263 00:16:45,730 --> 00:16:48,320 It feels like this is the story, 264 00:16:49,250 --> 00:16:52,960 right? If we're all in, we're all in. 265 00:16:54,310 --> 00:16:58,146 This is happening. It is certainly shocking enough to 266 00:16:58,168 --> 00:17:01,620 make us slow down and really think about what's going on. 267 00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:06,018 Mean, we could have just started with the prophecies 268 00:17:06,194 --> 00:17:10,034 and all the harsh things that God is telling 269 00:17:10,082 --> 00:17:13,366 Hosea to say to the people, and it would have had some 270 00:17:13,388 --> 00:17:17,122 impact. But those first couple chapters, 271 00:17:17,186 --> 00:17:20,694 man, they make you stop and really think 272 00:17:20,732 --> 00:17:24,138 about what God's relationship was like with them. 273 00:17:24,304 --> 00:17:27,900 Which kind of leads us to the question, maybe we're already sort of answering it. 274 00:17:28,510 --> 00:17:32,206 What's the big idea here? What is the purpose of this 275 00:17:32,228 --> 00:17:35,854 book? What is God at his core? What is he trying to get 276 00:17:35,892 --> 00:17:39,694 across. To his, you know, 277 00:17:39,812 --> 00:17:42,866 just like Hosea has this marriage relationship with 278 00:17:42,888 --> 00:17:46,340 Gomer, there is this covenant relationship 279 00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:50,946 between God and his people, and he loves them 280 00:17:50,968 --> 00:17:54,562 deeply, and he expects that return of 281 00:17:54,616 --> 00:17:57,654 love and allegiance and 282 00:17:57,772 --> 00:18:01,506 obedience, and they've 283 00:18:01,538 --> 00:18:04,520 gone and given his love to 284 00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:07,830 another, to idols, to other deities. 285 00:18:11,470 --> 00:18:15,020 The covenant relationship is broken. And we get to see, 286 00:18:15,870 --> 00:18:18,060 this is how God responds to that. 287 00:18:20,190 --> 00:18:22,540 This is how this loving God works. 288 00:18:23,950 --> 00:18:24,880 Yes. So 289 00:18:27,970 --> 00:18:31,614 the foreign God that seems to have creeped in is 290 00:18:31,652 --> 00:18:35,234 called Baal, right? And 291 00:18:35,272 --> 00:18:38,690 Baal, apparently, literally translated, means 292 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:39,410 master. 293 00:18:42,550 --> 00:18:46,294 And there's an interesting point in there in 294 00:18:46,332 --> 00:18:50,054 Hosea where basically what God says is 295 00:18:50,092 --> 00:18:52,550 you're no longer going to call me master, 296 00:18:54,890 --> 00:18:58,554 but we will have 297 00:18:58,592 --> 00:19:01,900 this love relationship again, 298 00:19:02,990 --> 00:19:06,758 which ends up being a play on words. Yeah, I saw that, but I didn't 299 00:19:06,774 --> 00:19:10,518 realize that background. So it's a play on words on it. It's 300 00:19:10,534 --> 00:19:14,346 like you are confusing me for this foreign God, which I 301 00:19:14,368 --> 00:19:17,934 am not. And you're worshipping this foreign God, and this foreign God is 302 00:19:17,972 --> 00:19:21,722 named master, but you're not going to call me master 303 00:19:21,786 --> 00:19:25,138 anymore. You're going to call me beloved. Right. 304 00:19:25,304 --> 00:19:29,054 And so he's literally talking about the name Baal 305 00:19:29,102 --> 00:19:32,882 that they're calling him, but also really kind of a, he's really 306 00:19:32,936 --> 00:19:36,050 asking them to rethink and reimagine 307 00:19:38,330 --> 00:19:42,070 what their relationship with him is like. And 308 00:19:42,140 --> 00:19:45,430 in a series that we did in January 309 00:19:45,930 --> 00:19:49,674 at the Grove, we're talking about all these different ways that we could love God. 310 00:19:49,792 --> 00:19:53,546 And then the one Sunday that you did, you talked about kind 311 00:19:53,568 --> 00:19:55,020 of heart relationship 312 00:19:57,230 --> 00:20:01,020 to me. That was kind of a big draw there of just kind of like, 313 00:20:02,210 --> 00:20:05,966 you view this as a master relationship. And 314 00:20:05,988 --> 00:20:08,000 it's not that there aren't elements of that, 315 00:20:09,490 --> 00:20:12,762 but I don't want you to think of it as turn yourself as, like, 316 00:20:12,916 --> 00:20:16,626 a rebellious servant. I want you to think 317 00:20:16,648 --> 00:20:20,274 of yourself as an adulterous spouse, which 318 00:20:20,312 --> 00:20:23,986 has a level of harshness to it, but it also has a 319 00:20:24,008 --> 00:20:27,160 level of heart in it 320 00:20:29,210 --> 00:20:32,982 where God's like, you're not just not 321 00:20:33,036 --> 00:20:36,562 doing what I'm saying. You have broken 322 00:20:36,626 --> 00:20:40,166 my heart the way my man Hosea's heart has been 323 00:20:40,188 --> 00:20:43,922 broken. And so as harsh as the book is, actually, 324 00:20:43,996 --> 00:20:47,338 it's also really rather tender. What do you think? Yeah, I agree. And I was 325 00:20:47,344 --> 00:20:50,606 just going to throw out one of my kind of a bow on that thought. 326 00:20:50,708 --> 00:20:54,234 The Hosea 66 is one of my favorite 327 00:20:54,282 --> 00:20:58,046 verses from the book that speaks to that, where he 328 00:20:58,068 --> 00:21:01,342 says, I desire steadfast love, not 329 00:21:01,396 --> 00:21:04,714 sacrifice the knowledge of God, rather than burnt 330 00:21:04,762 --> 00:21:08,254 offerings. This picture of, I mean, that's 331 00:21:08,382 --> 00:21:11,346 what I want from you. You've missed what I want from you. This is who 332 00:21:11,368 --> 00:21:14,180 I am. I want you. I want your heart. 333 00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:18,950 And yes, that plays out in obedience and these other things, but it's not. 334 00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:22,866 The burnt offerings minus the heart are pointless. 335 00:21:23,058 --> 00:21:26,774 Yeah. So the Baal, the false God, the 336 00:21:26,812 --> 00:21:29,900 master, you sacrifice to him, too. 337 00:21:30,750 --> 00:21:34,586 And so in some ways, you think, man, I'm making sacrifices. We'll call you by 338 00:21:34,608 --> 00:21:38,346 a different name. What difference does it make? You 339 00:21:38,368 --> 00:21:42,106 said, you're missing the point. There's something different that 340 00:21:42,128 --> 00:21:45,838 I want from you. I had that verse down, too, as a key verse I 341 00:21:45,844 --> 00:21:49,166 wanted to talk about, and you go up just a few verses before it. I 342 00:21:49,188 --> 00:21:52,686 had this one, too. In verse three says, let us acknowledge the 343 00:21:52,708 --> 00:21:56,466 Lord. Let us press on to acknowledge him. As 344 00:21:56,488 --> 00:22:00,194 surely as the sun rises, he will appear, he will come to us 345 00:22:00,232 --> 00:22:03,970 like the water rains, like the spring rains that water 346 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,762 the earth. Again, 347 00:22:07,816 --> 00:22:11,526 that's not the way that a master talks to a 348 00:22:11,548 --> 00:22:15,046 servant. It's not the way a king talks to a subject. And it's not a 349 00:22:15,068 --> 00:22:18,410 way a God talks to his followers. 350 00:22:22,350 --> 00:22:25,946 None of them would describe themselves as the 351 00:22:25,968 --> 00:22:28,250 spring rains that water the earth. 352 00:22:30,350 --> 00:22:33,918 Like an embracing of God. It's going to be full of 353 00:22:34,004 --> 00:22:37,742 refreshment and life and 354 00:22:37,796 --> 00:22:41,534 connection. And so, like I said, even 355 00:22:41,572 --> 00:22:43,460 in the strong words 356 00:22:45,670 --> 00:22:49,140 that God is telling Hosea to say, we see 357 00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:53,506 so much of this tenderness that God is wanting to 358 00:22:53,528 --> 00:22:57,042 have. And so I think you found it. I think verse, chapter 359 00:22:57,106 --> 00:23:00,914 six, those are the verses. 360 00:23:00,962 --> 00:23:04,806 If people read Hosea, people who really like this book, those 361 00:23:04,828 --> 00:23:08,614 are a couple of the verses that they really connect with. Did you have any 362 00:23:08,652 --> 00:23:12,394 others that really jump out at you? I might 363 00:23:12,432 --> 00:23:15,578 say this for the end. I mean, the very last verse, I think, speaks to 364 00:23:15,744 --> 00:23:19,226 that this is still powerful for us today, that this 365 00:23:19,248 --> 00:23:22,818 is evergreen and it's 366 00:23:22,854 --> 00:23:26,414 power, it is to a specific people at a specific time, 367 00:23:26,452 --> 00:23:29,840 but it's not just stuck there. Right 368 00:23:31,090 --> 00:23:33,140 on that thought. I feel like 369 00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:38,130 when we talk about these prophets, 370 00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:41,220 there's a lot of hard words, 371 00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:46,020 a lot of promise of 372 00:23:46,550 --> 00:23:50,350 God's judgment and accusation 373 00:23:50,430 --> 00:23:54,226 of you've sinned against him, you've messed 374 00:23:54,258 --> 00:23:57,142 up in this way or that way. And so a lot of the attention goes 375 00:23:57,196 --> 00:24:00,906 there. But man, on the backside of each one of these, 376 00:24:01,008 --> 00:24:04,602 and Hosea is a great example, man. There's this huge 377 00:24:04,656 --> 00:24:08,346 message of hope and this tender heart of 378 00:24:08,368 --> 00:24:12,078 God and the reality that it always feels like 379 00:24:12,084 --> 00:24:15,870 this tension between his holiness and 380 00:24:15,940 --> 00:24:19,774 what that means to be in covenant with a holy God. Right? And 381 00:24:19,812 --> 00:24:23,662 then also his. But then a lot of times it's easy to focus 382 00:24:23,716 --> 00:24:27,506 so much on that, that you miss that his love is huge, 383 00:24:27,608 --> 00:24:31,394 right. And in the midst of his judgment, there's also this 384 00:24:31,432 --> 00:24:34,978 grace and mercy. But it gets missed so much. 385 00:24:35,144 --> 00:24:38,886 Yeah. I think one of the challenges, one of the struggles that we have 386 00:24:38,988 --> 00:24:42,760 with books like this that have such a strong, 387 00:24:43,290 --> 00:24:46,930 for lack of a better phrase, such a strong judgment 388 00:24:47,010 --> 00:24:50,594 message to them, when we imagine, not 389 00:24:50,652 --> 00:24:54,426 imagine, we understand that God is a very merciful God and the 390 00:24:54,448 --> 00:24:57,660 sacrifice of Jesus. And we think about God 391 00:24:58,430 --> 00:25:01,854 very often in terms of just being full of 392 00:25:01,892 --> 00:25:05,374 mercy, full of grace. And then we read books like 393 00:25:05,492 --> 00:25:08,702 this and they sometimes can feel off 394 00:25:08,756 --> 00:25:12,480 putting or harsh. But really 395 00:25:13,650 --> 00:25:15,520 the cycle is the same 396 00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:20,914 because who Hosea is talking to here is a group of 397 00:25:20,952 --> 00:25:24,162 people who are currently in active rebellion against 398 00:25:24,216 --> 00:25:28,054 God. And there's two things that he is 399 00:25:28,092 --> 00:25:31,622 desperately trying to communicate to a group of people who 400 00:25:31,676 --> 00:25:34,920 are in active rebellion against him. 401 00:25:36,170 --> 00:25:39,500 Don't I love you? 402 00:25:41,550 --> 00:25:45,050 And sometimes when we're on the other end of that, having 403 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:48,966 experienced that grace and mercy 404 00:25:49,078 --> 00:25:52,862 from God, and we're kind of on the other end of that, having already 405 00:25:52,916 --> 00:25:56,638 understood, I know, don't I 406 00:25:56,644 --> 00:26:00,106 know I'm not supposed to? And I know that God loves 407 00:26:00,138 --> 00:26:03,762 me. And then I read this book and it feels like that from 408 00:26:03,816 --> 00:26:07,490 where I currently am reconciled to God, 409 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,780 that God is giving me this message 410 00:26:10,790 --> 00:26:14,270 when you're not in the active rebellion 411 00:26:14,350 --> 00:26:17,846 stage anymore. And so I think for a lot of us, 412 00:26:17,948 --> 00:26:19,640 books like this should be 413 00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:24,470 a refreshing reminder 414 00:26:25,050 --> 00:26:28,710 of where I used to be. And 415 00:26:28,780 --> 00:26:32,230 I think recognizing the context, 416 00:26:33,630 --> 00:26:37,354 if you are a devoted follower of Jesus Christ, you are not 417 00:26:37,392 --> 00:26:40,746 where the northern kingdom was in the early 8th century 418 00:26:40,778 --> 00:26:44,586 BC, active idol worship, active 419 00:26:44,618 --> 00:26:48,426 rebellion, active sin in every possible way. Complete ignoring 420 00:26:48,458 --> 00:26:52,254 of God and anything that he wants. If you are 421 00:26:52,292 --> 00:26:56,126 in that season, I'm glad you're reading 422 00:26:56,158 --> 00:26:59,906 Hosea because stop and know 423 00:26:59,928 --> 00:27:03,662 that God loves you. There's another verse 424 00:27:03,726 --> 00:27:05,906 because I want to get to the part where kind of talk about the big 425 00:27:05,928 --> 00:27:09,334 picture, but before we get to that, there's skip up a little 426 00:27:09,372 --> 00:27:11,400 bit. I like this, 427 00:27:12,970 --> 00:27:16,646 chapter four, verse six. And 428 00:27:16,668 --> 00:27:20,090 God says, my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. 429 00:27:20,430 --> 00:27:24,074 Because you have rejected knowledge. I have rejected you as my 430 00:27:24,112 --> 00:27:27,434 priests. Again, 431 00:27:27,552 --> 00:27:31,274 referencing a series that we did in January about 432 00:27:31,312 --> 00:27:35,150 all the different ways that God wants to connect with us. There's so much heart 433 00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:38,554 in here. There's a lot of description of active 434 00:27:38,602 --> 00:27:42,358 disobedience. But then there's also this description 435 00:27:42,474 --> 00:27:45,140 of, you know, how you got here 436 00:27:46,390 --> 00:27:49,662 because you didn't 437 00:27:49,726 --> 00:27:53,554 know. You were just wrong about who 438 00:27:53,592 --> 00:27:57,334 I am. You have wrongly described me. 439 00:27:57,372 --> 00:28:00,722 You have wrongly understood me because you have wrongly 440 00:28:00,786 --> 00:28:04,422 understood me. You have broken my heart and are 441 00:28:04,476 --> 00:28:07,950 in disobedience. And just kind of the interweaving 442 00:28:08,050 --> 00:28:10,300 connectedness of those three things, 443 00:28:11,710 --> 00:28:15,242 of a heart, love for God, an 444 00:28:15,296 --> 00:28:18,822 active obedience, and a genuine thirst 445 00:28:18,966 --> 00:28:22,638 and desire for knowledge about who he is. I 446 00:28:22,644 --> 00:28:26,480 think you get a weaving of all three of those things. 447 00:28:27,810 --> 00:28:30,750 We see it as like God doesn't like it when you sin. 448 00:28:33,030 --> 00:28:36,820 That is true. God does not like it when you sin. But 449 00:28:39,030 --> 00:28:42,226 what Hosea is saying here, what God is relaying to this people through 450 00:28:42,248 --> 00:28:45,940 Hosea is so much deeper and more 451 00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:50,406 complicated than that. All right, 452 00:28:50,428 --> 00:28:53,314 so we've already shot ourselves in the foot a little bit by saying it's 14 453 00:28:53,362 --> 00:28:56,360 chapters, so this is a longer one. And so for a lot of people, 454 00:28:58,090 --> 00:29:01,514 this would not be a one sitting read. It might be a two or 455 00:29:01,552 --> 00:29:05,386 three sitting read. So you would read this over a couple 456 00:29:05,408 --> 00:29:09,142 of days. So we've given some people some historical context, 457 00:29:09,206 --> 00:29:12,746 talked about the big idea. We've got 458 00:29:12,768 --> 00:29:16,366 this story about Hosea and Gohmer. Hey, by the way, I'll tell you 459 00:29:16,388 --> 00:29:20,030 this. When we were in the process 460 00:29:20,100 --> 00:29:23,726 of naming kids, people would ask if we're going to give our 461 00:29:23,748 --> 00:29:26,546 kids biblical names. It's like, yeah, we got a great name for a girl and 462 00:29:26,568 --> 00:29:30,194 was Dorcas Gomer. Dorcas is a girl's name 463 00:29:30,312 --> 00:29:33,826 in the New Testament. Dorcas Gomer. And our boy's name was 464 00:29:33,848 --> 00:29:37,030 Rufus Puddins. Also two great names from the. 465 00:29:37,100 --> 00:29:39,270 Anyways, big picture, 466 00:29:40,650 --> 00:29:44,230 why should somebody want to read and study, 467 00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:47,080 reflect on this particular book? 468 00:29:47,950 --> 00:29:48,700 Oh, 469 00:29:52,030 --> 00:29:55,100 man. Being completely honest. 470 00:29:57,230 --> 00:30:00,506 Want to is a hard word. I think for me, my study of 471 00:30:00,528 --> 00:30:03,290 this is heart wrenching. 472 00:30:04,130 --> 00:30:07,886 And so one of the questions I like to ask in Bible study is, 473 00:30:07,908 --> 00:30:11,646 what do you not like? Because I think, what do you not like kind 474 00:30:11,668 --> 00:30:15,410 of reveals sometimes even deeper things 475 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,978 than what you do. You like. And what I don't like 476 00:30:19,144 --> 00:30:22,658 is I don't like that God asked Hosea to 477 00:30:22,664 --> 00:30:26,370 do a. It's a hard 478 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:27,940 story that 479 00:30:29,610 --> 00:30:33,126 it's difficult for me to take in that break of 480 00:30:33,148 --> 00:30:36,694 trust and at the same time very 481 00:30:36,732 --> 00:30:40,426 effective in that I see that, man, I don't know that 482 00:30:40,448 --> 00:30:43,802 I have that in me. And this 483 00:30:43,856 --> 00:30:47,580 God, that's the truth about my story 484 00:30:47,950 --> 00:30:51,626 and this truth about Israel and that God would be that kind 485 00:30:51,648 --> 00:30:54,940 of God that would love at that level. 486 00:30:55,570 --> 00:30:58,686 But it's not an easy one. It's like that movie you watch that I've heard 487 00:30:58,708 --> 00:31:02,526 you say this sometimes about movies. It's like I'll say, is that one you should 488 00:31:02,548 --> 00:31:04,740 go watch? And you're like, well, 489 00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:09,506 it depends on what you're trying to get. If you're going to have a good 490 00:31:09,528 --> 00:31:13,186 time and laugh, it's not the book to read. Right. But, 491 00:31:13,288 --> 00:31:16,562 man, if the point is 492 00:31:16,616 --> 00:31:20,166 made and it's one that will make you 493 00:31:20,188 --> 00:31:23,240 cry. Yeah, I think it's one of those ones that 494 00:31:24,570 --> 00:31:28,230 if I were going to motivate somebody to read it, it is going to stretch. 495 00:31:28,730 --> 00:31:32,442 It is going to stretch your idea about who God is 496 00:31:32,496 --> 00:31:36,106 and the way he looks at us and he does it in a way that 497 00:31:36,128 --> 00:31:39,354 makes you so uncomfortable. You can 498 00:31:39,552 --> 00:31:42,926 only choose to do it. It can't be 499 00:31:42,948 --> 00:31:46,702 ignored. If you're really going to read it, you can't just read through 500 00:31:46,756 --> 00:31:50,026 it. There's so many points along the way that you're 501 00:31:50,058 --> 00:31:53,746 like, I'm sorry, what? And 502 00:31:53,768 --> 00:31:57,474 your brain is going to have to process that. What did 503 00:31:57,512 --> 00:32:01,234 I just read? And what does this say 504 00:32:01,272 --> 00:32:05,106 about my God? And it 505 00:32:05,128 --> 00:32:08,934 is either going to have to be completely ignored or it can 506 00:32:08,972 --> 00:32:12,758 only expand your view and understanding about who God is and the 507 00:32:12,764 --> 00:32:14,040 way he views us. 508 00:32:16,650 --> 00:32:20,278 In that sense, I recommend it. But if you were saying it's not a 509 00:32:20,284 --> 00:32:23,770 Monday afternoon feel good movie, right? It's not that. 510 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,778 If that's what you're looking for, if you're looking for a pick me up in 511 00:32:26,784 --> 00:32:30,558 the morning before you head off to work, I wouldn't choose it. Also, 512 00:32:30,644 --> 00:32:34,378 that verse I was talking about earlier in chapter 14, the very last verse 513 00:32:34,394 --> 00:32:37,790 of the book, whoever is wise, 514 00:32:38,130 --> 00:32:41,246 let him understand these things. Whoever is 515 00:32:41,268 --> 00:32:44,962 discerning, let him know them. For the ways 516 00:32:45,016 --> 00:32:48,306 of the Lord are right and the upright walk in 517 00:32:48,328 --> 00:32:51,460 them. Let transgressors stumble in them. 518 00:32:51,910 --> 00:32:54,980 And to me, that's the statement that just feels like that is 519 00:32:56,790 --> 00:33:00,180 not just for one audience. This is 520 00:33:01,370 --> 00:33:04,966 whoever is wise, let him understand these things. 521 00:33:05,148 --> 00:33:08,934 It's like a call to hey, yeah, this book has power for us, 522 00:33:08,972 --> 00:33:11,720 so you should probably spend some time in it. 523 00:33:13,710 --> 00:33:16,922 I got no better way to end the episode than that, man. That's an awesome 524 00:33:16,976 --> 00:33:20,714 word. Thanks for ending us with that. And 525 00:33:20,752 --> 00:33:24,462 thank you guys for joining us. And I do hope that you'll spend some time 526 00:33:24,596 --> 00:33:28,046 studying and reading Hosea this week. Honestly, if I were going to be 527 00:33:28,148 --> 00:33:31,534 listening to this podcast, I think I would choose to 528 00:33:31,732 --> 00:33:35,120 maybe try to read it beforehand and 529 00:33:35,670 --> 00:33:39,118 then listen to this podcast and then read it after. Or at a minimum, 530 00:33:39,214 --> 00:33:42,786 certainly spend some time over the next week reading and reflecting on 531 00:33:42,808 --> 00:33:46,386 this prophetic book yourself. And 532 00:33:46,408 --> 00:33:50,198 then next week we'll be in Joel. And so again, thank you so much for 533 00:33:50,204 --> 00:33:53,490 joining us. Mark, as always, thank you for being here on the podcast 534 00:33:53,570 --> 00:33:57,186 and hope that if you're not connected at the Grove church, 535 00:33:57,298 --> 00:34:00,994 that you would take that step whether you're in town or out of town 536 00:34:01,042 --> 00:34:04,742 and you can join us in person or you want to join us online. Either 537 00:34:04,796 --> 00:34:08,006 way, we'd love to get to know you and connect with you and you can 538 00:34:08,028 --> 00:34:11,726 find us@thegrovechurch.org slash Connect. Again, thanks for 539 00:34:11,748 --> 00:34:14,170 joining us here on the Cultivate podcast at the Grove church.