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Rupert Isaacson: Thanks for joining us.

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Welcome to Live Free, Ride Free.

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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New
York Times bestselling author of

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The Horseboy and The Long Ride Home.

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Before I jump in with today's guest, I
want to say a huge thank you to you, our

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audience, for helping to make this happen.

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I have a request.

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If you like what we do here,
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like, subscribe, tell a friend.

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To find out about our certification
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books, and other courses,
please go to rupertisakson.

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com.

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So now let's jump in.

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Welcome back to Live Free, ride Free.

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I've got Adventurous Barbie here.

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Stevie Della Hunt.

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She does crazy shit.

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Among these things is Organ
helping to organize and helping

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people to prepare for a couple of
really extreme events that happen.

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One in Patagonia and one in Mongolia.

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The Gaucho Derby and the Mongolian Derby.

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But she has a lot of
other strings to her bow.

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It seems to be a story of resilience,
putting oneself in challenging positions

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and why one might do that and why one
might help other people to do that.

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So, buckle up 'cause
we're in for a good ride.

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Welcome, Stevie.

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Tell us who you are and what you do.

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Stevie Delahunt: Hi, thank
you so much for having me.

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I'm Stevie Della Hunt and you just
did a one lovely job explaining the

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major part of what I enjoy doing.

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I also happen to put shoes on
horses or, and trim their nails.

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Trim their feet.

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So I'm a farrier and I am
also a riding instructor for

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beginner adults and, and kids.

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Cool.

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And I do endurance running
and riding as well.

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So I'm addicted to long haul
excursions On foot or on horseback.

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Rupert Isaacson: Why?

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Why are you addicted to this?

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Oh,

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Stevie Delahunt: I think, you know, it's,
it's that type two fun addiction where

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Rupert Isaacson: it's that
what type two, what addiction

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Stevie Delahunt: Type two.

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Fun.

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Rupert Isaacson: What's Type two Fun.

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Stevie Delahunt: So
type two fun in my mind.

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There's type one fun where you're
on a rollercoaster, you're enjoying

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it, and that's very obvious.

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Type two fun is maybe you go on a
hiking and camping trip with friends

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and you get caught in the rain and
at the time it doesn't seem fun.

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It's stressful and you're cold and wet.

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But the next day in the pub talking about
it, you guys are like, you're bonding

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with your friends and you're talking
about how much fun it was to be out there.

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That's type two fun.

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Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so it's

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Stevie Delahunt: the excursions where
you're in between that sort of, that

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space of either trauma or triumph
and you end up triumphing over it.

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And I love, I love that little phrase,
trauma or triumph because I feel like

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when we put ourself up against new goals
or challenges, it can become a trauma

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if we don't have the tools in place.

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Or it can become a triumph.

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And I think the type two fun is that
space when you triumph and type three

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fun is where you, you ends up being
a trauma, like taking out the trash.

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Maybe that's not a trauma, but taking
out the trash I say is type three fun.

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It's not fun while you're
doing it and it's not fun

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later when you look back on it.

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Rupert Isaacson: That's that how, how
was the type three fun in that case.

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If it's not fun at the
time and it's not fun,

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Stevie Delahunt: it's more of a joke.

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I think I started that with Work Schiller
when we were trying to define type two

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fun and type three fun came up as well.

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Rupert Isaacson: This reminds me
of a lyric from a joke band called

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The Flight of the Concordes.

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I dunno if you ever saw them.

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They had a TV show where they were.

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It's two guys from New Zealand and
they are musicians and they, the,

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the, the, the conceit of the show is
that they are New Zealand's fifth.

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Most popular band and they're
trying to make it in New York.

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Of course they're not making it.

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And they do all these funny songs
and there's one they call Business

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Time, which is when he is gonna
make love to his wife 'cause it's

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business time and it's on Wednesdays.

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And the foreplay, they talk about the
part of the foreplay on this sort of

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Barry White and they're brushing their
teeth and that's all part of the foreplay.

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And then he goes and puts the recycling
out and he says that's not part of the

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foreplay, but it's still very important
because foreplay is very important.

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So that sounds like type three fun.

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Yeah.

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Who came up with these categories?

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Stevie Delahunt: I, I don't know who came
up with like type one and type two fund,

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but that's been around and in my head
and in my, my vocabulary for a long time.

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But the type three, that was
just a, like a joking addition.

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What I believe what I chatted to
Warwick Chiller on is podcast.

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We might have talked about that, but

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Rupert Isaacson: okay.

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So, so what happens if it's just trauma?

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What category does that go under?

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Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, that's
probably gonna be type three fun.

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Not fun while you're doing it.

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And not fun when you look back on it.

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And the fun

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Rupert Isaacson: that you, but allows you
to have fun later 'cause you survived.

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Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah.

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I like keeping those things in the
categories of, there's, there's nothing

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outside of this three types of fun, right?

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'cause everything, I think a lot
of things in life are a choice.

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You know, I love the phrase, if
you're not laughing, you're crying.

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And I've tried to hold that dear
because there's some situations in

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which it feels really difficult.

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But if you just take a moment and
realize that you're the speck of dust

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in the universe and your problems
are quite small, it can help give

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perspective and you can see how
ridiculous our situations are every day.

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So, that's, that's why I
like the categories of fun

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being one, two, and three.

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And there's nothing outside of that.

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So,

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Rupert Isaacson: so have you always
been drawn to testing yourself in

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this way or was it a gradual process?

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Stevie Delahunt: I think for
me it was a gradual process.

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I'm a normal human being with a normal,
well an probably an abnormal brain,

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but still I'm drawn to comfort and
not always wanting to go out when it's

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raining or you would rather sit on the
couch and watch Netflix sort of person.

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So I'm not any braver or
there's no nothing in me that's

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different from anyone else.

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And I think it took some time to realize
the rewards that were to be had if I went

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out and tested myself and pushed myself.

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I started running half
marathons and that was.

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I think I really inherited
that from my parents.

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They were both very physically active
and kind of wondered why my dad was

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drawn to being a marathon runner.

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And so I started running half
marathons and then like that feeling

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of accomplishment of something I, I
never thought I could run 13 miles

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and that's, and one day I was able to
do it and I got addicted to that and

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eventually I ended up doing a 50 k.

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And what was crazy for that is that in
my training for a 50 k, something that I

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once thought, that 13 mile, half marathon
mark that I thought was impossible,

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that was like a training run for me
when I started going ultra distances.

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And that was just such an interesting
progression to realize that those

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benchmarks that you thought were once
impossible are actually a part of,

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can become a part of your routine.

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It's a little bit like when you hear
about those marathon runners there's like

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a comedian, a British comedian that went
and just started doing a marathon a day.

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And like those, those
benchmarks are possible.

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And like to some people, the idea of
just doing one marathon is, it's a lot.

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I mean, even now, right now I probably,
I haven't been training, I would feel

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like a lot to give to a marathon.

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I would have to walk a bit of it for sure.

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And it's just interesting like how
your perspective can shift when

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you start shifting your, yeah.

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When you start shifting your life.

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Rupert Isaacson: And talk
to me about ultra distances.

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An ultra distance, so basically 50 K is
two marathons in a row, more or less.

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Stevie Delahunt: Actually 50 K is,
it's less so it's, it's the short, it's

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the shortest ultra distance there is.

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So it's about 31 miles.

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Rupert Isaacson: I love that.

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It's the shortest ultra distance there is.

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Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

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Rupert Isaacson: So that's like your
baby ultra distance, like Oh, bless you.

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Yeah, yeah.

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You're only running 50 k.

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Mm-hmm.

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When you run 50 k, do you run the whole
way or do you run, walk, run, walk?

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Stevie Delahunt: It depends on elevation.

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So the race that I did had 9,000 feet.

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So what is that?

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Like 3000 meters of elevation
gain in the first five miles.

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So it's quite a lot.

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And some of those climbs you end up
walking and it's just advantageous.

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You can actually walk
faster than you jog uphill.

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So that one, at the beginning I did
do some walking, but I tried to, I was

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trying to be a sub six hour time on
my 50 K, and so I was trying to run

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and I had not trained well enough.

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I'd only done 18 miles in preparation.

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Hadn't had the time in my
life to get enough running in.

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Like I should have probably done
a marathon distance before in

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training and I hadn't been able to.

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And so the last six miles
were really, really difficult.

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I was jogging probably slower
than grandma's can walk, but I was

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jogging and I did come in at 5 59, so

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Rupert Isaacson: it's
not good for your body.

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Stevie Delahunt: I, you know, there's so
many people out there, like Courtney Dewal

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is a pretty famous ultra runner, and she's
able to do distances of like 240 miles.

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Like that's becoming a normal
distance to race for ultras.

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Like the Moab two 40 they're
bringing in a 250 mile race.

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There's, there's even
longer distances, I think a

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Rupert Isaacson: good for your body.

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I mean, I believe's possible.

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They

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Stevie Delahunt: seem to be, I, I
think it's probably no more damaging

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than sitting on a couch all day.

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Like they're just different
health risks, right?

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Like it might, how

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Rupert Isaacson: old is, is Courtney?

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Stevie Delahunt: I believe
she's in her forties now.

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Rupert Isaacson: Possibly.

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I one just can't help but one, I mean, I
do, I do absolutely accept that there are

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certain body types and personality types
that, that might suit, but I'm skeptical.

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But help me with this, that setting
up those things as goals for your

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average human being might not
invite people into potential injury

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that they maybe don't need to.

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Or am I looking at it wrongly?

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Stevie Delahunt: You know, it's
an interesting topic to bring

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up because I do endurance horse
racing so ultra running for horses.

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And it's a subject I think a lot
about as like the breakdown in the

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wear and tear on their bodies, the
breakdown in wear and tear on mine.

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But I look back to thinking about how I
would think about doing a half marathon.

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When I first started, I
thought that was impossible.

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And from the perspective of a person
who had never run any distance, I

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would look out and be like, that
can't, that can't be possible.

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You can't be healthy running
marathons all the time, say.

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And same with there's a lot of horse
people that might look and say, you can't

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ride a horse a hundred miles in 24 hours.

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Well, yes, that's true.

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If, and that seems like a very valid
perspective when you have a horse

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that lives in a stall all day, doesn't
exercise very much, and is just

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going out for an hour in the arena
and is sweaty and and out breath

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after doing an hour in the arena.

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So as my perspective has shifted,
like once I started completing

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half marathons, it became normal.

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It became my every day felt
normal to just go run five miles.

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No big deal.

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Doesn't feel like wear and tear because
I have the tools in my body, the muscles

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built up over time to support that.

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It'd be like if we had to run
three miles every day to get water.

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Like, you know, maybe, maybe you'd have
to travel to get water back in the day.

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You wouldn't be running maybe,
but I'm, I'm just saying it's,

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our bodies are very adaptable

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Rupert Isaacson: over time.

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I absolutely, I absolutely agree.

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And, and, but the reason I'm, I'm, I'm
harping on this I think sort of early

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in the podcast, is I think what gets
tricky is we live in a society where

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expectations are set for us through
culture, social media, and so on.

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Let's say for example, we're talking about
horses doing, you know, an endurance race.

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There are definitely types of horse
that are selectively bred, partly by

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nature and partly by man for that.

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So there's, it's no surprise, for
example, that your average endurance

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horses in Arabian or something close
to it because the, and it's no surprise

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that the fastest runners in the
world come out of the Horn of Africa

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and are of a certain genetic type.

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And these horses are of
a certain genetic type.

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I don't think I'm of that genetic type.

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So I think that for me to run that
distance, as much as I loved running.

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Before I smashed up my legs over cross
country fences now it's too painful

00:13:21.215 --> 00:13:22.625
'cause I've got metal rods in my legs.

00:13:22.625 --> 00:13:26.795
But when I did run a lot I enjoyed it.

00:13:26.855 --> 00:13:27.665
I loved it.

00:13:27.875 --> 00:13:33.035
I definitely hit the spiritual side
of it, but I never thought deep

00:13:33.035 --> 00:13:36.335
down that I was a marathon runner.

00:13:36.425 --> 00:13:39.905
And I remember having people
kind of peer pressure me to it.

00:13:39.905 --> 00:13:41.975
I'm like, dude, I don't think that's me.

00:13:42.425 --> 00:13:45.935
That might be that person over there
who's got a very different body type

00:13:45.935 --> 00:13:49.405
to me totally support them doing it.

00:13:50.545 --> 00:13:52.795
Me with my knees, my ankles.

00:13:53.125 --> 00:13:53.755
Mm.

00:13:54.805 --> 00:13:58.255
I could see where and tear are
that I can feel it happening.

00:13:58.945 --> 00:14:02.935
So I'm gonna stay sort of where I
am, but I maybe will push myself

00:14:02.935 --> 00:14:05.545
and find my extremes in other ways.

00:14:05.905 --> 00:14:11.125
What I worry about with things like a
ultra distance or that sort of thing,

00:14:11.125 --> 00:14:14.155
being, you know, and, and people will
sort of see that go, I want to do

00:14:14.155 --> 00:14:15.985
that and I'm gonna make that my goal.

00:14:16.075 --> 00:14:24.745
And they might or might not be physically,
let alone emotionally, but probably more

00:14:24.745 --> 00:14:32.920
physically that type then if they injure
themselves or fail, is that, you know.

00:14:34.735 --> 00:14:38.215
Or can we look at it in a more
measured way and saying for a certain

00:14:38.215 --> 00:14:41.155
type of physical type, this ultra
distance actually might be a thing,

00:14:41.335 --> 00:14:44.605
but it's going to be a small minority
of people, and that's all right.

00:14:44.665 --> 00:14:44.995
You know?

00:14:45.235 --> 00:14:46.165
Do you know what I'm saying?

00:14:46.215 --> 00:14:46.505
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

00:14:47.540 --> 00:14:47.810
Yeah.

00:14:47.810 --> 00:14:48.500
I absolutely do.

00:14:48.500 --> 00:14:52.130
I don't think I'm, like,
I'm not built to run fast.

00:14:52.190 --> 00:14:52.280
Mm-hmm.

00:14:52.520 --> 00:14:53.030
At all.

00:14:53.030 --> 00:14:56.660
And I think it's, I think if
you intuitively, like you were

00:14:56.660 --> 00:14:59.390
saying intuitively, you felt
you were not a marathon runner.

00:14:59.450 --> 00:15:01.040
I think that's your answer right there.

00:15:01.070 --> 00:15:05.570
Like, I think that the people that are
drawn, the people that are drawn to wanna

00:15:05.630 --> 00:15:09.860
run a hundred miles, you've gotta feel
it in your bones that you can do that.

00:15:10.550 --> 00:15:14.050
And I think I think it's possible you'll
have doubts, but that's a different thing.

00:15:14.530 --> 00:15:17.800
Because I, I would imagine that when
you were a runner, if someone said,

00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:20.350
you wanna sign up for this a hundred
mile race, you would've been like, no.

00:15:20.740 --> 00:15:22.630
Like, you enjoy running
in a different way, right?

00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:23.350
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:24.980
I watched it from the pub.

00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:25.795
Yeah, absolutely.

00:15:26.895 --> 00:15:29.150
Stevie Delahunt: So I
think, I think you're right.

00:15:29.150 --> 00:15:33.280
Like I think but it's just like some
people, that's why we are drawn to

00:15:33.280 --> 00:15:34.960
different jobs in the world too.

00:15:35.650 --> 00:15:35.740
Mm-hmm.

00:15:35.930 --> 00:15:37.250
And you know, it in your bones.

00:15:37.550 --> 00:15:42.680
And I think a distance, anything over 50
k really for running you're not really

00:15:42.680 --> 00:15:46.520
gonna attempt to do it unless you feel
it, like you feel drawn to do that.

00:15:47.030 --> 00:15:50.150
And I think you're right, there's
a million ways to push yourself.

00:15:50.300 --> 00:15:52.370
And it doesn't have to be running, but,

00:15:52.400 --> 00:15:52.430
Rupert Isaacson: okay.

00:15:52.605 --> 00:15:55.761
So, so let's talk about pushing
yourself because we are, we

00:15:55.761 --> 00:15:57.080
are beginning to live in a.

00:15:58.505 --> 00:16:05.915
In an, in an era where stress
is a dirty word, and I've often

00:16:05.915 --> 00:16:07.625
wondered, is all stress bad?

00:16:08.705 --> 00:16:09.935
Personally, I don't think it is.

00:16:09.965 --> 00:16:15.875
In fact, your chances of getting
through, you know, several decades on

00:16:15.875 --> 00:16:18.905
planet earth without stress are zero.

00:16:18.905 --> 00:16:18.965
Yeah.

00:16:19.505 --> 00:16:26.165
And so if stress was by its very
nature negative, then life would,

00:16:26.165 --> 00:16:29.525
by its very nature, be negative
because life involves stress.

00:16:30.335 --> 00:16:37.085
I believe in resilience and like you say,
you, you are type two fun where you come

00:16:37.085 --> 00:16:41.015
through a testing situation, you're full
of endorphins, you're glad you did it.

00:16:41.255 --> 00:16:42.065
You're stronger.

00:16:42.575 --> 00:16:44.675
You are also a bit
relieved that it's over.

00:16:45.005 --> 00:16:48.225
And you absolutely want to have,
you know, feed up on the couch

00:16:48.225 --> 00:16:49.785
for a while before the next one.

00:16:50.505 --> 00:16:54.525
But if you go back to a
hunter gatherer roots, this is

00:16:54.525 --> 00:16:56.235
demanded of us all the time.

00:16:56.295 --> 00:17:00.975
And not, of course, not just physical
endeavor, but mental and emotional.

00:17:01.695 --> 00:17:08.715
So I think I'm with you that we,
we need to be pushed or we dive

00:17:08.715 --> 00:17:12.855
boredom and boredom and loneliness,
which I think go hand in hand.

00:17:12.855 --> 00:17:17.445
I feel that they're sort of siblings
really, or cousins seems to be

00:17:17.445 --> 00:17:21.885
the ill of our age, or one of them
at least within Western society.

00:17:22.695 --> 00:17:29.535
Did you get drawn to push yourself and
then to help others push themselves

00:17:29.535 --> 00:17:40.905
if they want to because of a reaction
to boredom or because of a instinctive

00:17:41.805 --> 00:17:47.355
feel, feeling that you needed to be
tested or somewhere in between them both.

00:17:47.955 --> 00:17:52.875
Talk to me a bit about your
childhood and how you grew up.

00:17:52.875 --> 00:17:58.125
Was there a lot of testing and
opportunities for resilience?

00:17:59.205 --> 00:18:02.205
Like how did you come into it that way?

00:18:02.205 --> 00:18:07.455
And when people are coming to
you, inevitably there's a sort

00:18:07.455 --> 00:18:09.975
of therapeutic angle to this.

00:18:10.635 --> 00:18:12.585
Who are the people that
come to you and why?

00:18:13.245 --> 00:18:15.765
You know, so, so if you could put that
picture together for us, I'd be, yeah.

00:18:16.125 --> 00:18:16.515
Curious.

00:18:18.165 --> 00:18:21.815
Stevie Delahunt: I had a very
privileged only child upbringing.

00:18:21.875 --> 00:18:26.645
And so I can't, I've often wondered like
we all carry some sort of traumas with

00:18:26.645 --> 00:18:28.985
us and I've had a pretty good childhood.

00:18:29.415 --> 00:18:32.505
Had all the opportunities in the world,
loving parents that supported me.

00:18:32.510 --> 00:18:32.810
Where was that?

00:18:32.810 --> 00:18:33.130
Where

00:18:33.135 --> 00:18:33.705
Rupert Isaacson: did you grow up?

00:18:34.155 --> 00:18:36.765
Stevie Delahunt: I grew up I
was born in Germany, but I moved

00:18:36.835 --> 00:18:38.335
into the states when I was two.

00:18:38.335 --> 00:18:42.025
So essentially grew up in Michigan,
so the Midwest of the United States.

00:18:43.045 --> 00:18:48.725
Had good old Midwestern upbringing, went
to Michigan State University college, and

00:18:48.755 --> 00:18:50.495
that was kind of when I started running.

00:18:50.585 --> 00:18:50.915
But

00:18:50.965 --> 00:18:52.285
Rupert Isaacson: what did
you study out of interest?

00:18:52.825 --> 00:18:53.245
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

00:18:53.245 --> 00:18:57.275
I was I had dual major as
French and political science.

00:18:57.345 --> 00:19:01.635
And I had a specialization in
democratization in Eastern Europe.

00:19:02.265 --> 00:19:02.505
Yeah,

00:19:02.935 --> 00:19:05.000
Rupert Isaacson: well that was sort
of going on at the time, I presume.

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:05.210
Yeah.

00:19:05.405 --> 00:19:05.785
To some,

00:19:06.455 --> 00:19:06.745
Stevie Delahunt: yeah.

00:19:07.070 --> 00:19:09.190
And graduated from
Michigan State University.

00:19:09.190 --> 00:19:13.240
That changed my mind, decided I didn't
wanna, I was supposed to go to law school.

00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:17.600
I was teaching the lsat at the time
because I was very good at taking tests.

00:19:17.650 --> 00:19:22.990
I was supposed to go to Georgetown Law
School changed my mind and ended up at the

00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:26.020
French Pastry School of Chicago instead.

00:19:26.170 --> 00:19:31.330
And yeah, and made ended up having
a business in Chicago doing wedding

00:19:31.330 --> 00:19:32.710
cakes for quite a few years.

00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:38.240
And then I was drawn back into horses
and it was kind of a big transition.

00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:38.345
So, back into

00:19:38.345 --> 00:19:38.505
Rupert Isaacson: horses.

00:19:38.605 --> 00:19:39.625
Had you grown up with horses?

00:19:40.225 --> 00:19:41.185
Stevie Delahunt: I had
grown up with horses.

00:19:41.545 --> 00:19:44.540
I was on the Michigan State
Equestrian team in college, so

00:19:44.600 --> 00:19:46.190
horses followed me through college.

00:19:46.260 --> 00:19:46.650
I

00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:48.210
Rupert Isaacson: did your parents ride?

00:19:48.760 --> 00:19:50.290
Stevie Delahunt: My mom had as a kid.

00:19:50.390 --> 00:19:52.430
But they were not big horse people.

00:19:52.490 --> 00:19:56.540
They became big horse people when
I was drawn to it as a child.

00:19:56.540 --> 00:19:56.630
But

00:19:56.630 --> 00:19:57.825
Rupert Isaacson: What kind of
riding did you do growing up?

00:19:58.790 --> 00:20:01.960
Stevie Delahunt: I did pretty much
everything started in western disciplines

00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:06.420
and went into English, and eventually
after college, went into the hunter

00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:08.550
jumper world and started fox hunting.

00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:09.720
Rupert Isaacson: Where did you,

00:20:11.430 --> 00:20:12.120
Stevie Delahunt: sorry, what was that?

00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:13.110
Rupert Isaacson: Where did you fox hunt?

00:20:13.510 --> 00:20:16.120
Stevie Delahunt: Chagrin valley hunt
in Ohio when I was living there.

00:20:16.120 --> 00:20:16.150
I,

00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:17.560
Rupert Isaacson: I, I know of that one.

00:20:17.890 --> 00:20:18.100
Yep.

00:20:18.760 --> 00:20:19.150
Okay.

00:20:19.150 --> 00:20:19.152
It was

00:20:19.157 --> 00:20:20.440
Stevie Delahunt: a, it is very good hunt.

00:20:20.470 --> 00:20:24.580
Shout out to Solange Ellis, who
Drew drew me into fox hunting there.

00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:28.100
And yeah, kind of went through all
the different disciplines, sort of

00:20:28.100 --> 00:20:34.520
looking, looking for something that
exemplified the relationship between

00:20:34.520 --> 00:20:36.260
human and horse, like that connection.

00:20:36.260 --> 00:20:36.350
Mm-hmm.

00:20:36.850 --> 00:20:38.230
I always found it really interesting.

00:20:38.230 --> 00:20:43.780
I showed horses in the western world
for quite a while, and I found that

00:20:43.990 --> 00:20:48.010
it, it was such a weird world in that
everyone had been drawn to horses

00:20:48.010 --> 00:20:50.440
because they loved them and they
wanted the connection to start with.

00:20:50.620 --> 00:20:50.710
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:20:50.950 --> 00:20:55.090
Stevie Delahunt: But it got sort of
bastardized into a whole different

00:20:55.510 --> 00:20:56.950
element of just wanting to win.

00:20:56.950 --> 00:21:00.940
It's very, it's very strange
how we can change relationships

00:21:01.030 --> 00:21:02.200
when money's involved.

00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.745
And I was, I was kind of, Evan can

00:21:04.745 --> 00:21:07.150
Rupert Isaacson: become hell
very easily in the human psyche.

00:21:07.210 --> 00:21:07.570
Yes.

00:21:08.140 --> 00:21:08.680
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

00:21:08.710 --> 00:21:09.745
So quickly and.

00:21:10.295 --> 00:21:13.925
So I, I have nothing against
showing horses in different ways.

00:21:13.925 --> 00:21:17.455
It's all about how and why
you're doing it, but it wasn't,

00:21:17.455 --> 00:21:18.445
it wasn't the space for me.

00:21:18.445 --> 00:21:21.625
So I ended up traveling through lots
of dis different disciplines, including

00:21:21.625 --> 00:21:23.845
like try and polo, which I'm shit at.

00:21:23.990 --> 00:21:26.965
And every, everything in between.

00:21:27.065 --> 00:21:31.355
Eventually though I found endurance, but
I found that through the Mongol Derby I

00:21:31.355 --> 00:21:37.755
was reading an article in Outside Magazine
and they had published a guy named Will

00:21:37.755 --> 00:21:42.525
who I, now I'm friends with, published
an article about the Mongol Derby.

00:21:42.525 --> 00:21:46.515
And instantly I just knew,
like I felt this big draw.

00:21:46.575 --> 00:21:48.405
I had always wanted to go to Mongolia.

00:21:48.685 --> 00:21:53.335
I'd known about it as a kid for, as
one of the world's best horse people.

00:21:53.875 --> 00:21:55.165
Like read that somewhere else.

00:21:55.165 --> 00:21:59.845
And so when I saw that this race took
place in Mongolia through the step, I

00:21:59.875 --> 00:22:02.215
was instantly obsessed with the idea.

00:22:02.215 --> 00:22:05.635
And so it was extremely expensive for me.

00:22:05.635 --> 00:22:07.315
I was a bartender at the time.

00:22:07.315 --> 00:22:11.215
I had given up my cake business
and moved to the Ohio area.

00:22:12.055 --> 00:22:16.555
And the idea of paying that much
money to do something felt like a lot.

00:22:16.555 --> 00:22:19.015
So I was like, if I'm gonna do
this, I'm gonna do it right.

00:22:19.075 --> 00:22:22.555
And I began training and
fox hunting every day.

00:22:22.585 --> 00:22:25.045
'cause I didn't know the
endurance world existed.

00:22:25.045 --> 00:22:29.115
I didn't know you could go and ride 50
to a hundred miles on a horse in a day.

00:22:29.870 --> 00:22:32.270
So fox hunting seemed
like a good way to prep.

00:22:32.270 --> 00:22:36.440
It's a lot of wild riding through
open terrain, and I knew that's what

00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:37.700
I'd be doing on the Mongol Derby.

00:22:38.420 --> 00:22:41.870
And additionally, I felt like I needed
to be really fit to do a good job.

00:22:41.870 --> 00:22:46.400
So I started running, and then I started
getting into the idea of ultra distances.

00:22:46.550 --> 00:22:52.020
And so it was the Mongol Derby itself
was the catalyst for which I started

00:22:52.020 --> 00:22:55.680
to change my life and started to get
addicted to that, that type two fun

00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:01.500
feeling and really realized I was coming
back to myself through that, like to

00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:05.880
my more wild and free self outside
of the paradigms of normal society.

00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.520
I was definitely had been
looking for something.

00:23:08.950 --> 00:23:12.640
Before we started this podcast
recording, we talked briefly about

00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:17.530
what I do, and I mentioned to you that
I felt people who go to do the Mongol

00:23:17.590 --> 00:23:21.070
Gouger derbies are on a spiritual
journey, whether they know it or not.

00:23:21.820 --> 00:23:28.240
And I, I certainly was on one and
didn't realize it, and I was looking,

00:23:28.390 --> 00:23:33.970
I was looking to find myself, but also
looking to step outside of the societal

00:23:33.970 --> 00:23:35.830
norms that I didn't feel were right.

00:23:35.830 --> 00:23:38.950
Things like the relationship
with horses in the land.

00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:41.110
And that's what I found out there.

00:23:41.110 --> 00:23:44.920
When I did the Mongol Derby, I saw
people living in touch with the land.

00:23:45.280 --> 00:23:49.270
I saw a community of people from around
the world that also felt the same.

00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:52.730
So all the other contestants
that came to ride the gouge,

00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:54.560
or sorry, the Mongol Derby.

00:23:55.280 --> 00:23:59.210
We're all in the same boat of,
there was just something off about

00:23:59.210 --> 00:24:02.180
their world and the relationship
with horses within their world.

00:24:02.900 --> 00:24:04.850
And I think that's what draws people

00:24:04.850 --> 00:24:07.070
Rupert Isaacson: on the
relationship with nature in general.

00:24:07.760 --> 00:24:09.650
Stevie Delahunt: Nature in
general, but also horses.

00:24:09.650 --> 00:24:12.930
I think a lot of the people that
I now train for Mongol and Gaucho

00:24:12.930 --> 00:24:16.680
derbies, they're really open to the
spiritual side of being with horses.

00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:20.370
Like they, they also are pushing
up against the idea of like

00:24:20.670 --> 00:24:24.900
winning those ribbons and the
money that's involved in horses.

00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:28.080
They're, they're looking for
the connection and, and for

00:24:28.080 --> 00:24:29.550
purpose with horses again.

00:24:30.010 --> 00:24:30.551
If that makes sense.

00:24:31.150 --> 00:24:32.680
Rupert Isaacson: And yet the,
and yet the Derby is a derby.

00:24:32.695 --> 00:24:33.295
It's still a race.

00:24:33.965 --> 00:24:35.860
Stevie Delahunt: It's still a race, yeah.

00:24:35.860 --> 00:24:36.910
It's still a race.

00:24:37.270 --> 00:24:37.810
Yes.

00:24:38.620 --> 00:24:43.510
Rupert Isaacson: How does the fact that
it's still a race not open the way to

00:24:43.510 --> 00:24:46.780
the human ego and get in the way of that
spiritual relationship with the horse?

00:24:47.740 --> 00:24:49.300
Stevie Delahunt: You know,
I think, I think it does.

00:24:49.300 --> 00:24:52.480
I've seen lots of different
derby stories play out.

00:24:52.620 --> 00:24:57.270
And I think oftentimes the people
that are up in the front of the

00:24:57.270 --> 00:25:02.130
derby, there's sometimes ego
involved, but other times there's not.

00:25:02.130 --> 00:25:05.430
I've seen some really amazing wins.

00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:06.810
There's south African.

00:25:06.810 --> 00:25:07.260
Why have there been

00:25:07.260 --> 00:25:07.620
Rupert Isaacson: a race?

00:25:07.620 --> 00:25:09.660
Why not just make it a journey?

00:25:10.635 --> 00:25:12.090
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, that's
a really good question.

00:25:12.120 --> 00:25:13.440
Rupert Isaacson: Request of some sort,

00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:17.550
Stevie Delahunt: and I think
it is shied away from, and.

00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:23.910
The idea of winning is shied away
from, in a way, there's no big winnings

00:25:24.030 --> 00:25:25.710
if you win, it's just accolades.

00:25:25.710 --> 00:25:27.330
Like you, yes, you were first.

00:25:27.800 --> 00:25:31.650
And this actually gets talked a lot
about in endurance riding for A ERC,

00:25:31.650 --> 00:25:35.390
American Endurance Ride Conference which
runs e endurance horse racing in the

00:25:35.390 --> 00:25:40.300
US and they talked often it's called
their motto is to finish, is to win.

00:25:41.230 --> 00:25:46.360
And a lot of people say, well,
if it's all about finishing, then

00:25:46.360 --> 00:25:49.390
why are contestants placed, right?

00:25:49.390 --> 00:25:52.780
Like, if it's all about going out and
doing this ride and I think it's really

00:25:52.780 --> 00:25:56.860
supposed to be you against the time
clock, not you, against other contestants.

00:25:57.160 --> 00:25:59.170
Rupert Isaacson: Why does
that need to be an against?

00:25:59.410 --> 00:26:03.550
What do you think is important
about the against what, what,

00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:06.130
what quality does that bring out?

00:26:07.030 --> 00:26:10.150
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, I think it's good
to have that stress, as you were saying,

00:26:10.150 --> 00:26:12.520
like putting a stress, a time stress.

00:26:12.620 --> 00:26:15.200
Would I have loved to ride the Mongol
Derby and had all the time in the world?

00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:15.800
Absolutely.

00:26:15.800 --> 00:26:19.430
So we could spend time with the
families, could have had a whole

00:26:19.430 --> 00:26:23.660
different experience, but that would've
been me just going on vacation.

00:26:23.710 --> 00:26:24.180
Would it, I think,

00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:30.395
Rupert Isaacson: or would it have been
a a, a quest and an inquiry does, so

00:26:32.555 --> 00:26:36.605
I guess what I'm digging for is I
think obviously certain people are

00:26:36.605 --> 00:26:41.075
con competitive by nature and that
com, com a competitive nature is.

00:26:41.585 --> 00:26:46.235
In our DNA more in certain people
than others, perhaps because of our

00:26:46.715 --> 00:26:52.985
hunting gatherer, you know, nature
that therefore to bring down the big

00:26:52.985 --> 00:26:56.075
kill is a necessary thing sometimes.

00:26:56.675 --> 00:27:06.635
And to have the or to jackpot the big, you
know, find of natural plants or whatever,

00:27:06.635 --> 00:27:17.105
you know, it, that desire to get the big
dopamine boom is in us for, you know,

00:27:17.555 --> 00:27:19.675
good reasons that nature has put in there.

00:27:19.675 --> 00:27:20.395
Like anything.

00:27:21.185 --> 00:27:24.215
But you know, when you say something
like, what if I'd just done that ride

00:27:24.605 --> 00:27:27.755
with all the time in the world, I would've
been on vacation, I think No, no, no.

00:27:27.755 --> 00:27:28.325
Not at all.

00:27:28.325 --> 00:27:31.055
Not necessarily, but in your mind, yes.

00:27:31.835 --> 00:27:32.315
Why?

00:27:34.145 --> 00:27:34.475
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

00:27:34.535 --> 00:27:39.155
That's a, it's a good question, and
actually I'll circle around to that.

00:27:39.275 --> 00:27:43.265
But I was thinking about how my
competitive nature has changed over time.

00:27:43.895 --> 00:27:48.785
And I, I would say when I went and
did the Mongol Derby, I originally

00:27:48.785 --> 00:27:50.435
felt that I wanted to try to win it.

00:27:51.425 --> 00:27:54.875
And as I started training for it, I
realized I just wanted to survive it.

00:27:54.875 --> 00:27:54.965
That

00:27:55.625 --> 00:27:55.745
Rupert Isaacson: was

00:27:55.745 --> 00:27:55.985
Stevie Delahunt: that.

00:27:56.345 --> 00:27:57.365
Rupert Isaacson: How long ago was that?

00:27:57.695 --> 00:27:59.945
Stevie Delahunt: That was 2014,
so that was like 11 years ago.

00:28:00.005 --> 00:28:01.235
Rupert Isaacson: So you've been
doing these things for about

00:28:01.235 --> 00:28:02.645
11 years out there in Mongolia?

00:28:03.275 --> 00:28:03.635
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

00:28:03.995 --> 00:28:04.265
Rupert Isaacson: So.

00:28:04.670 --> 00:28:04.970
Stevie Delahunt: Yep.

00:28:05.490 --> 00:28:08.910
And when I went out there, I wanted
to, I thought I wanted to win it.

00:28:09.180 --> 00:28:11.760
And then as I started training,
that was like, this was part

00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:12.780
of my spiritual journey.

00:28:13.080 --> 00:28:16.020
I did start asking myself like,
why do I wanna win things?

00:28:16.020 --> 00:28:20.520
Why do I have to go about them
in, in a way like to be the best?

00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:26.130
And I realized it's part of this
quest of like external validation

00:28:26.130 --> 00:28:27.270
that a lot of us go through.

00:28:27.300 --> 00:28:31.800
I think there's a lot of competition
is driven by, if I just win this,

00:28:31.800 --> 00:28:33.300
then my dad will approve of me.

00:28:33.300 --> 00:28:34.395
Or if I just win, self esteem

00:28:34.395 --> 00:28:35.280
Rupert Isaacson: is right up that hill.

00:28:35.285 --> 00:28:35.915
Yeah, yeah,

00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:37.500
Stevie Delahunt: yeah, exactly.

00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:42.330
So I started to realize that I was looking
to be enough in things outside of me.

00:28:42.330 --> 00:28:46.530
And of course if you place
value in things outside of you,

00:28:46.530 --> 00:28:47.760
they can always be taken away.

00:28:48.630 --> 00:28:51.750
And I kind of started to realize
that in my training for the derby.

00:28:51.750 --> 00:28:55.230
And then I was like, I just really wanna
complete this, like have this experience.

00:28:55.230 --> 00:29:00.060
So it changed from I wanna win this
to, I wanna have this experience and to

00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:02.010
see what I'm made of and push myself.

00:29:02.040 --> 00:29:08.010
And it kind of began to shift the goal
from outside of myself, like winning to

00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:10.230
who am I gonna be through this experience?

00:29:10.230 --> 00:29:13.770
And that became an internal quest.

00:29:13.950 --> 00:29:19.710
And when, when your goals are internal
rather than on an external valida

00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:23.700
validation, it's something that can't
be taken away, if that makes sense.

00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:28.590
I don't know if I'm doing that justice,
but I started to notice that shift

00:29:28.620 --> 00:29:31.830
in finding, finding myself as enough.

00:29:32.580 --> 00:29:34.080
No matter what the outcome was.

00:29:34.590 --> 00:29:39.120
And there's something I tell a lot of
riders that come to compete, I always

00:29:39.120 --> 00:29:40.860
ask them why they're doing the derby.

00:29:40.860 --> 00:29:45.990
Like what are they, I'm, I'm searching to
see what their external validation or if

00:29:45.990 --> 00:29:47.670
they're looking for external validation.

00:29:47.808 --> 00:29:53.448
I always remind them that their
friends don't care about how they do.

00:29:54.018 --> 00:29:56.418
They only care about how
they feel about how they do.

00:29:57.918 --> 00:30:01.668
So, you know, there's so many people
that say, I have to win for my family.

00:30:01.668 --> 00:30:02.538
I have to do this.

00:30:02.718 --> 00:30:04.728
No, your family doesn't
care if you, you win.

00:30:04.728 --> 00:30:07.158
They, they care if you're
happy about how you did.

00:30:08.778 --> 00:30:10.908
And that's, that's a shift we talk about.

00:30:11.658 --> 00:30:13.218
Rupert Isaacson: There were two
things which I'd, I'd like, I

00:30:13.218 --> 00:30:14.148
want to circle back to this.

00:30:14.148 --> 00:30:20.058
There's two things I'd like to ask about
why cakes and talk to me about boredom.

00:30:20.718 --> 00:30:21.078
Okay.

00:30:21.318 --> 00:30:22.518
So why cakes first?

00:30:24.038 --> 00:30:29.448
Stevie Delahunt: Cakes I really enjoy
baking and I love the chemistry of baking.

00:30:29.448 --> 00:30:32.988
It's just a very strict science
project every time you bake.

00:30:33.068 --> 00:30:36.818
And that was probably like my least
favorite part of it was the baking itself.

00:30:36.818 --> 00:30:38.348
I love the cake decorating.

00:30:38.428 --> 00:30:42.838
And I think it's that people
pleasing element of I love creating

00:30:42.838 --> 00:30:43.918
something for other people.

00:30:44.683 --> 00:30:49.663
And seeing the joy when they
consume or get to look at such

00:30:49.663 --> 00:30:50.594
beautiful, right, but heart.

00:30:50.594 --> 00:30:50.595
Right.

00:30:50.595 --> 00:30:50.653
But you

00:30:50.743 --> 00:30:53.143
Rupert Isaacson: could, there are
many things that you could do that

00:30:53.143 --> 00:30:54.673
are not a cake, that are white cakes.

00:30:55.753 --> 00:30:59.353
Stevie Delahunt: I don't know, I guess
it just really ended up, I think it was

00:30:59.353 --> 00:31:02.773
something, one of those things where
I was always good at baking and so I

00:31:02.773 --> 00:31:04.873
always got that validation for baking.

00:31:04.873 --> 00:31:09.013
And you just start to associate, just like
if you start drawing and everyone tells

00:31:09.013 --> 00:31:10.963
you you're a good draw, you pursue that.

00:31:11.503 --> 00:31:13.153
Rupert Isaacson: So strict rules,

00:31:15.253 --> 00:31:20.623
easily perceived clear
structures, external validation.

00:31:22.543 --> 00:31:25.543
These drove you for a while, right?

00:31:25.663 --> 00:31:26.203
Stevie Delahunt: They did, yeah.

00:31:26.208 --> 00:31:26.438
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:31:27.083 --> 00:31:31.553
I think honestly, I mean, they drive all
of us, so it's, you know, it's, it's,

00:31:31.643 --> 00:31:33.263
one comes by these things honestly.

00:31:33.413 --> 00:31:37.193
And it's interesting that one one
might find it through cakes and

00:31:37.943 --> 00:31:39.233
riding horses across Mongolia.

00:31:39.293 --> 00:31:42.414
You know, it, it, it's, it's so
random how it can come about.

00:31:42.418 --> 00:31:44.753
It is for somebody else,
it's something else.

00:31:45.083 --> 00:31:50.303
But both involve a sort
of certain suspense.

00:31:50.513 --> 00:31:54.173
So, you know, you put the cake in
the oven, is it gonna come out right?

00:31:54.803 --> 00:31:55.258
Is it gonna be good?

00:31:56.168 --> 00:31:58.628
Is it gonna fulfill expectations?

00:31:58.718 --> 00:32:02.168
I mean, even when we're baking bread
at home, one always has that kind of, I

00:32:02.168 --> 00:32:05.178
hope it, you know, it's the same feeling
that I think potters have when they

00:32:05.178 --> 00:32:08.958
put the thing in the kiln and they know
it, it can implode and it might have

00:32:08.958 --> 00:32:10.458
to start again, or it might be amazing.

00:32:11.388 --> 00:32:15.378
And then if it causes joy, I think
there's something celebratory

00:32:15.378 --> 00:32:16.338
around cakes, isn't there?

00:32:16.488 --> 00:32:19.218
You know, that it's sort
of a big dopamine hit.

00:32:19.218 --> 00:32:20.178
It's like a big win.

00:32:20.238 --> 00:32:24.828
It's like a, everybody loves a cake
and if you show up with a good cake,

00:32:24.918 --> 00:32:26.148
it's like you're the, you're the hero.

00:32:26.208 --> 00:32:26.598
You know?

00:32:27.408 --> 00:32:30.408
Stevie Delahunt: Well, let me tell you,
transporting wedding cakes and making

00:32:30.408 --> 00:32:36.138
sure that you don't drop that thing right
before the wedding because that is true.

00:32:36.228 --> 00:32:36.828
Real stress.

00:32:36.983 --> 00:32:37.668
So, so what you've

00:32:37.668 --> 00:32:39.948
Rupert Isaacson: got to create
is the wedding cake race across

00:32:39.948 --> 00:32:43.488
Mongolia there, where you've got
to transport a wedding cake on your

00:32:43.488 --> 00:32:49.488
horse through challenging terrain over
two weeks and arrive with your cake.

00:32:49.938 --> 00:32:52.278
Not only intact, but
better than it was somehow.

00:32:52.278 --> 00:32:52.308
Or

00:32:53.028 --> 00:32:56.418
Stevie Delahunt: the that's,
I would rather run 240 miles

00:32:56.418 --> 00:33:01.488
because there's no way that that
cake race wouldn't incite trauma.

00:33:01.878 --> 00:33:04.098
Like that would be type three fun for me.

00:33:04.878 --> 00:33:06.588
There's no triumph in that for me.

00:33:08.078 --> 00:33:10.868
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so
talk to me also about boredom.

00:33:11.288 --> 00:33:17.048
I am a great believer that most
of the ills that beset us with

00:33:17.048 --> 00:33:20.898
mental health, myself included I.

00:33:22.593 --> 00:33:24.603
Are largely brought about by boredom.

00:33:24.903 --> 00:33:32.103
And what I mean by that is genetically
we are supposed to be in more or

00:33:32.103 --> 00:33:39.453
less constant movement out in nature
with a series of skills that make the

00:33:39.453 --> 00:33:44.373
finding of food sufficiently efficient.

00:33:44.373 --> 00:33:46.173
That we also have time for culture.

00:33:46.713 --> 00:33:50.763
There is quality of life in
the hunter gatherer context.

00:33:51.693 --> 00:33:57.273
But at the same time, if we're not
constantly engaged in series of tasks

00:33:57.273 --> 00:34:05.343
that are basically problems to fix,
tracking hunting, identifying wild plants,

00:34:05.343 --> 00:34:10.953
gathering them medicinal, let alone before
we go into the spiritual realm, these

00:34:10.953 --> 00:34:13.323
are all problems to constantly solve.

00:34:13.323 --> 00:34:16.053
And when you, when you're out hunting,
other things are hunting you, you know,

00:34:16.053 --> 00:34:20.133
you gotta dodge them and weather changes,
and now everything has to shift again.

00:34:20.133 --> 00:34:24.153
And when you are gathering wild
foods, things are hunting you and

00:34:24.153 --> 00:34:25.263
you've got to be aware of that.

00:34:25.263 --> 00:34:29.553
And you're also maybe trapping a little
bit and looking for what are those

00:34:29.553 --> 00:34:31.893
tracks over there and what are those
tracks over there that you might then

00:34:31.893 --> 00:34:33.213
go and report back to the hunters?

00:34:33.633 --> 00:34:37.143
Oh, and then you've gotta climb
into the tree to shake down the nuts

00:34:37.143 --> 00:34:40.293
and it's very physical, but there's
also poisonous snakes in that tree

00:34:40.353 --> 00:34:41.973
and so on and so on and so on.

00:34:43.683 --> 00:34:47.373
And we are not supposed to freak out
about this because we're supposed to

00:34:47.583 --> 00:34:52.563
understand our environment and deal with
its dangers in a way that's competent.

00:34:52.563 --> 00:34:56.133
So only very occasionally is
there something like, oh shit.

00:34:56.733 --> 00:34:59.613
Most of the time it's, it's
handleable, but we're still

00:34:59.823 --> 00:35:01.623
supposed to be tested in that way.

00:35:01.653 --> 00:35:06.783
And if we're not and we're not doing it
in nature, our organism is not happy.

00:35:07.023 --> 00:35:09.933
And does that manifest as boredom?

00:35:10.413 --> 00:35:16.503
And so if one grows up in suburban
London or suburban Michigan, do

00:35:16.503 --> 00:35:18.093
we suffer from chronic boredom?

00:35:18.633 --> 00:35:23.043
And almost the more comfortable the

00:35:27.963 --> 00:35:30.753
family culture, the more
of a danger for this?

00:35:30.753 --> 00:35:31.503
There is.

00:35:32.433 --> 00:35:32.853
Absolutely.

00:35:33.303 --> 00:35:33.813
Is.

00:35:33.813 --> 00:35:39.933
Is, is that something that, are you
actually a sort of a purveyor of

00:35:42.393 --> 00:35:44.133
the cure for boredom in a way?

00:35:45.333 --> 00:35:48.663
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, I definitely
would say I, boredom doesn't sit well

00:35:48.663 --> 00:35:53.853
with me and I can't remember a time in
which I was bored, which is probably

00:35:53.973 --> 00:35:55.473
'cause I would rather go running.

00:35:55.473 --> 00:35:55.653
I can be

00:35:55.743 --> 00:35:56.253
Rupert Isaacson: very boring.

00:35:56.253 --> 00:35:59.373
I, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll,
I'll, I can rise to that challenge.

00:35:59.373 --> 00:35:59.463
Yeah.

00:36:01.143 --> 00:36:03.393
Stevie Delahunt: I'm not bored yet at all.

00:36:05.433 --> 00:36:05.823
No.

00:36:05.873 --> 00:36:07.573
I think I think.

00:36:08.038 --> 00:36:09.388
Evading boredom.

00:36:09.448 --> 00:36:14.008
Like you said, our our minds are a busy
creature and they want us to keep moving

00:36:14.038 --> 00:36:15.538
or our mind wants us to keep moving.

00:36:16.138 --> 00:36:20.788
And yeah, that's where so
much creativity comes out of

00:36:20.788 --> 00:36:23.218
boredom, like to evade boredom.

00:36:24.028 --> 00:36:31.048
So I will take time away from screens,
away from stimulus when I, when I

00:36:31.048 --> 00:36:35.368
wanna create something like writing,
like if I just sit for a little bit,

00:36:35.848 --> 00:36:39.198
almost immediately writing things
that I wanna write come up for me.

00:36:39.288 --> 00:36:47.478
And so they say boredom's a good thing,
but I kind of, I, I don't agree with that.

00:36:47.478 --> 00:36:48.078
I think it's a good

00:36:48.078 --> 00:36:49.458
Rupert Isaacson: thing if
it doesn't last very long.

00:36:49.518 --> 00:36:49.878
Yes,

00:36:50.148 --> 00:36:50.778
Stevie Delahunt: exactly.

00:36:50.778 --> 00:36:51.648
That's what I was gonna say.

00:36:51.648 --> 00:36:51.798
Finds

00:36:51.848 --> 00:36:52.538
Rupert Isaacson: something to do.

00:36:52.658 --> 00:36:52.958
Yeah.

00:36:53.048 --> 00:36:53.588
Stevie Delahunt: Yes.

00:36:53.648 --> 00:36:55.358
And that's, that's exactly it.

00:36:55.358 --> 00:37:00.758
Like immediately I'm, I'm always
finding something to evade, boredom and

00:37:01.928 --> 00:37:02.348
Rupert Isaacson: okay.

00:37:02.348 --> 00:37:05.588
What's the, what, is there a,
a relationship do you think,

00:37:06.428 --> 00:37:07.958
between boredom and loneliness?

00:37:07.958 --> 00:37:08.798
And if so, what is it?

00:37:11.918 --> 00:37:15.848
Stevie Delahunt: Maybe I would say
the relationship between boredom and

00:37:15.848 --> 00:37:19.628
loneliness is if you really are bored,
if you really are sitting there and

00:37:19.628 --> 00:37:23.798
nothing comes to you, like you're,
you can't find a way to entertain

00:37:23.798 --> 00:37:27.838
yourself, I think you've lost a
sense of wonder about the world.

00:37:28.678 --> 00:37:33.538
I think that's often why I'm not bored is
that I am so amazed all the time by the

00:37:33.538 --> 00:37:36.628
little things like flowers blow my mind.

00:37:36.628 --> 00:37:40.798
Like, just like the beauty in
the world is always, is always

00:37:40.798 --> 00:37:41.878
there if you're looking for it.

00:37:42.658 --> 00:37:49.258
And so having a sense of wonder is
really kind of my elixir to boredom.

00:37:49.318 --> 00:37:51.088
And I think if you don't hold that,

00:37:53.248 --> 00:37:55.918
and I keep, I don't wanna keep
saying the same sentence, but

00:37:55.918 --> 00:38:00.838
that sense of wonder really is a
connection to QE or life force.

00:38:01.558 --> 00:38:05.938
And when you can hold that
connection to life force, I

00:38:05.938 --> 00:38:07.648
think things are drawn to you.

00:38:08.278 --> 00:38:15.688
I've found that all my best relationships
with sentient, so horses, people, they've

00:38:15.688 --> 00:38:19.348
all come to me in times where I feel
really connected to that sense of wonder.

00:38:20.758 --> 00:38:24.928
And, and so I think that if you've
lost that, you've also lost your

00:38:24.928 --> 00:38:26.818
connection to yourself, to others.

00:38:26.908 --> 00:38:32.068
So yes, loneliness is, is a
lack of feeling of connection.

00:38:33.568 --> 00:38:38.068
Rupert Isaacson: Does, does boredom
force you to seek community?

00:38:40.048 --> 00:38:40.678
Stevie Delahunt: I think so.

00:38:40.678 --> 00:38:43.858
I think it would, I think something's
really lost if you're bored and

00:38:43.858 --> 00:38:45.298
you're not seeking to fix it.

00:38:46.828 --> 00:38:48.898
Rupert Isaacson: You know, when you're
talking about a sense of wonder, the

00:38:48.898 --> 00:38:51.718
word that comes up for me is, or a WE

00:38:52.288 --> 00:38:52.738
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

00:38:52.918 --> 00:38:57.418
Rupert Isaacson: As opposed to iron ore,
ori or the, or with which one might.

00:38:58.003 --> 00:38:58.723
Do a rowboat.

00:38:59.233 --> 00:38:59.473
Yeah.

00:38:59.653 --> 00:39:03.973
So, or, and it's, as you probably
know, it's a burgeoning field

00:39:04.153 --> 00:39:07.183
in mental health and psychology.

00:39:07.723 --> 00:39:09.523
And it seems to come back to nature.

00:39:09.523 --> 00:39:14.623
So you are drawn to, you know, Mongolia,
I've been in Mongolia and it's, you know,

00:39:14.623 --> 00:39:18.103
an intact ecosystem on a large scale.

00:39:18.463 --> 00:39:19.963
So one is awed by it.

00:39:20.323 --> 00:39:24.373
You, you, you do the
gaucho derby and Patagonia.

00:39:24.373 --> 00:39:27.463
I have not been down there,
but I can absolutely see

00:39:27.463 --> 00:39:30.133
how one would be awed by it.

00:39:30.133 --> 00:39:32.413
And just while you were
talking there, I was on Dr.

00:39:32.413 --> 00:39:35.273
Google I thought, oh, that
sounds like awe to me.

00:39:35.843 --> 00:39:46.123
And so in Europe, psychology, the
diminished focus on the self or being

00:39:46.123 --> 00:39:50.113
in the presence of big nature, things
that are bigger than you in this way,

00:39:50.743 --> 00:39:54.943
increased pro-social relationality.

00:39:55.093 --> 00:40:00.013
See, the idea is it brings you
together greater social integration.

00:40:00.553 --> 00:40:00.823
Shit.

00:40:00.823 --> 00:40:01.393
It's a big place.

00:40:01.393 --> 00:40:04.723
We kind of all better fucking
be on the same side and a

00:40:04.723 --> 00:40:06.403
heightened sense of meaning.

00:40:07.963 --> 00:40:13.093
And then immediately underneath that
comes five additional appraisals.

00:40:13.093 --> 00:40:18.133
Account for variation in the
hedonic tone of all experiences.

00:40:18.553 --> 00:40:20.893
Hedonic that must be sensory, right?

00:40:21.853 --> 00:40:22.873
Sensory, emotional.

00:40:23.503 --> 00:40:24.193
Threat.

00:40:24.373 --> 00:40:26.383
So there's that thing of stress.

00:40:26.383 --> 00:40:31.723
Again, beauty, exceptional ability.

00:40:31.963 --> 00:40:36.463
Can I get up that hill, cross that
river virtue, that's interesting.

00:40:37.093 --> 00:40:40.483
Not virtue in the my good person
or a bad person, but the virtue

00:40:40.543 --> 00:40:48.373
of being able to get out there and
deal with it, I guess, and this is

00:40:48.373 --> 00:40:50.653
interesting, and the supernatural,

00:40:53.143 --> 00:40:53.983
how interesting.

00:40:54.103 --> 00:40:56.563
And then I looked at how does
it all affect your health?

00:40:56.563 --> 00:40:59.353
Says elevated, elevated vagal tone.

00:40:59.923 --> 00:41:02.533
So that's basically oxytocin, right?

00:41:02.713 --> 00:41:06.823
As you create oxytocin in your gut,
which you absolutely would do, say

00:41:06.823 --> 00:41:11.863
riding the horse across there with
all that hip rocking, all your organs

00:41:11.863 --> 00:41:15.223
that your vagus nerve would touch,
would produce oxytocin together.

00:41:15.223 --> 00:41:18.943
So then it would hit your
brain in a sort of join army.

00:41:19.753 --> 00:41:25.003
So elevated vagal tone, reduced
sympathetic arousal, so not freaking

00:41:25.003 --> 00:41:28.483
out, increased oxytocin release.

00:41:28.483 --> 00:41:28.873
There we go.

00:41:28.873 --> 00:41:29.503
We talked about that.

00:41:29.953 --> 00:41:31.663
And reduced inflammation.

00:41:32.053 --> 00:41:34.213
And what's interesting about
reduced inflammation is that's

00:41:34.213 --> 00:41:35.503
actually a cortisol response.

00:41:35.593 --> 00:41:39.913
And cortisol and oxytocin are often
regarded as absolute opposites.

00:41:40.123 --> 00:41:44.023
Like one is bliss and happiness, one
is stress, cortisol is stress, oxytocin

00:41:44.023 --> 00:41:45.853
is bliss and communication, happiness.

00:41:45.913 --> 00:41:48.283
But of course, if I'm.

00:41:49.508 --> 00:41:50.833
I, I grew up fox hunting too.

00:41:50.833 --> 00:41:54.493
So if I'm heading in at a
big fence going, oh shit.

00:41:54.523 --> 00:41:55.093
Oh shit.

00:41:55.213 --> 00:41:56.908
But a part of me is like
going, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:57.373 --> 00:41:59.803
Because it's kind of within
my comfort zone, but,

00:42:01.843 --> 00:42:03.463
and I absolutely know what can happen.

00:42:03.883 --> 00:42:08.473
I'm in that kind of interplay between
ooh shit and Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:42:09.023 --> 00:42:12.743
If it, if the fence is too big,
then I'm like definitely an oh shit.

00:42:12.893 --> 00:42:14.303
And maybe I shouldn't be doing it.

00:42:14.783 --> 00:42:16.763
And if it's too small,
I haven't got enough.

00:42:16.763 --> 00:42:17.063
Yeah, yeah.

00:42:17.063 --> 00:42:17.423
Yeah.

00:42:18.023 --> 00:42:22.943
And there seems to be a need in the
human to be able to sort of run at that

00:42:22.973 --> 00:42:27.748
buffalo and tracker spear and know that
it might turn around and have a go at you.

00:42:28.553 --> 00:42:29.783
Stevie Delahunt: It's
either trauma or triumph.

00:42:29.843 --> 00:42:32.573
There's actually a Japanese word,
and I wish I had written it down

00:42:32.753 --> 00:42:35.843
before, or like looked it up and
written it down, but there's a

00:42:35.843 --> 00:42:40.513
Japanese word for attempting something
in which you have a 50 50 chance.

00:42:40.513 --> 00:42:43.663
I think it might even be 60
40, like 60% chance of failure

00:42:43.663 --> 00:42:45.643
and 40% chance of success.

00:42:46.093 --> 00:42:49.633
And I feel that you should be doing
something on a grand scale every year.

00:42:50.233 --> 00:42:53.023
That challenges that, like that
puts you in a space where you

00:42:53.023 --> 00:42:54.703
have a 60% chance of failure.

00:42:54.733 --> 00:42:55.093
I think.

00:42:55.213 --> 00:42:58.008
I think it is that, like that
it's supposed to be the absolutely

00:42:58.123 --> 00:42:59.233
chance of failure is higher.

00:42:59.533 --> 00:43:01.333
Rupert Isaacson: I could go, you
know, I could actually take myself

00:43:01.333 --> 00:43:02.863
to Mongolia in exactly that.

00:43:02.863 --> 00:43:09.733
I remember riding up into the mountains
in Siberia, up by cobs in the very

00:43:09.733 --> 00:43:14.833
north, looking for the reindeer
people for a particular shaman who I.

00:43:15.283 --> 00:43:16.513
Would hopefully heal my son.

00:43:17.203 --> 00:43:23.083
And knowing that this would only
work if the river that we had to

00:43:23.083 --> 00:43:28.393
cross was not up from recent rains
because I only had a certain amount

00:43:28.393 --> 00:43:31.558
of bacon, dried bacon in my saddlebag.

00:43:31.558 --> 00:43:34.903
'cause that was the only protein
my autistic son would eat.

00:43:35.563 --> 00:43:41.293
And I had a certain number of days
packed, but I knew if I fell out of

00:43:41.293 --> 00:43:44.533
that and if I lost set several days
at the river, okay, that would be it.

00:43:44.773 --> 00:43:49.603
Then assuming we got across that
river, then let's say we got up

00:43:49.603 --> 00:43:50.863
into the mountains where they are.

00:43:51.373 --> 00:43:56.533
Well, we had to hope that they were
in the camps that we were hoping they

00:43:56.533 --> 00:44:00.493
would be in because they might have
been a couple of days further in.

00:44:01.273 --> 00:44:06.133
And then if that were to happen and
they were in the camps that they

00:44:06.133 --> 00:44:08.983
were, and then we had to hope that
the shaman would actually think,

00:44:09.013 --> 00:44:10.843
well, this is something I can handle.

00:44:11.083 --> 00:44:15.163
Because I'd been in situations,
for example, in the Kalahari with

00:44:15.223 --> 00:44:18.763
the sun, with the Bushman there,
where with healers, where they had

00:44:18.763 --> 00:44:21.613
sometimes said, actually, no, sorry,
this is something I, I can't handle,

00:44:21.643 --> 00:44:23.533
or I can't handle it by myself.

00:44:23.533 --> 00:44:27.193
I need to get a co healer to come help me.

00:44:27.193 --> 00:44:29.053
And that co healer lives two days away.

00:44:29.203 --> 00:44:32.683
So let's say the river had come up
and they'd not been at the camp,

00:44:32.683 --> 00:44:37.813
and then the heer had said that that
would've been a whole other week and

00:44:37.813 --> 00:44:39.043
I wouldn't have been able to make it.

00:44:39.553 --> 00:44:41.173
And I remember that feeling of.

00:44:43.858 --> 00:44:49.198
I was so stressed that this massive
cold sore burst out on my lower lip.

00:44:49.858 --> 00:44:50.248
Oh man.

00:44:50.428 --> 00:44:52.558
Like my entire lip just like erupted.

00:44:52.828 --> 00:44:54.958
And so I was sort of dealing
with the stress and dealing with

00:44:54.958 --> 00:44:56.098
this pain and dealing with this.

00:44:56.698 --> 00:45:00.808
And also, we are in completely
wild country and we know

00:45:00.808 --> 00:45:01.948
doing eight hours a day, it's

00:45:01.948 --> 00:45:02.638
Stevie Delahunt: wild up there.

00:45:02.638 --> 00:45:05.458
I've been up to see the reindeer
people as well, and I couldn't

00:45:05.458 --> 00:45:06.838
believe how remote it was.

00:45:06.928 --> 00:45:08.428
Rupert Isaacson: It's,
it's, it's, it's bananas.

00:45:08.428 --> 00:45:10.498
And now, now do it with a
5-year-old autistic kid in,

00:45:10.498 --> 00:45:11.338
in the saddle in front of you.

00:45:11.938 --> 00:45:15.318
I hope you enjoyed today's
conversation as much as I did.

00:45:16.148 --> 00:45:19.898
If you did, please help us to make more.

00:45:19.898 --> 00:45:23.778
Please like, subscribe, tell
a friend, give us a thumbs up.

00:45:24.228 --> 00:45:29.478
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00:45:29.798 --> 00:45:30.148
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00:45:30.348 --> 00:45:33.528
And if you'd like to find out about
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00:45:33.918 --> 00:45:37.868
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00:45:37.928 --> 00:45:40.268
There's a whole range of cool stuff.

00:45:40.688 --> 00:45:43.718
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00:46:03.833 --> 00:46:05.743
Not to mention our excellent merch.

00:46:05.803 --> 00:46:10.883
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00:46:10.893 --> 00:46:12.283
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00:46:12.323 --> 00:46:14.123
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00:46:14.643 --> 00:46:15.713
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00:46:15.753 --> 00:46:16.613
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00:46:16.673 --> 00:46:20.223
I can't wait for our next guest
and also to meet you there.

00:46:21.023 --> 00:46:24.813
In the meantime, remember, live free.

00:46:25.743 --> 00:46:26.293
Ride free.

00:46:26.763 --> 00:46:30.503
And I remember there's this one part
where I was feeling so stressed and

00:46:30.503 --> 00:46:33.533
I was having a little bit of a pity
party with myself and I was like,

00:46:33.773 --> 00:46:34.823
hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:46:34.823 --> 00:46:41.873
I heard myself doing that and I was like,
Rupert, you are in Mongolia with your kid

00:46:44.123 --> 00:46:47.513
and you are riding up a mountain

00:46:49.733 --> 00:46:51.473
looking for a shaman.

00:46:54.203 --> 00:47:00.413
You lucky bastard, if I hear one more
little whiny, bitchy word out of you,

00:47:00.773 --> 00:47:07.673
I'm going to come out of my own body and
slap me around because this is absurd.

00:47:07.793 --> 00:47:10.163
You are having the
adventure of a lifetime.

00:47:12.653 --> 00:47:13.403
Be grateful.

00:47:14.243 --> 00:47:19.373
And I think what was so interesting
for me in that situation was it

00:47:19.373 --> 00:47:22.613
was one of the first within autism.

00:47:23.783 --> 00:47:27.143
Where I really got gratitude.

00:47:27.953 --> 00:47:29.033
I was like, damn, you're right.

00:47:29.453 --> 00:47:30.023
You're right.

00:47:30.413 --> 00:47:32.003
And there was this, again, back to awe.

00:47:32.003 --> 00:47:36.383
It's like I looked around, I
allowed myself to look around.

00:47:36.388 --> 00:47:42.893
I was like, I'm in these mountains
in Siberia, this is incredible.

00:47:42.893 --> 00:47:46.253
And I'm body to body, heart
to heart with my child.

00:47:48.563 --> 00:47:52.283
And in the event it did actually work out.

00:47:52.943 --> 00:47:56.933
But even when we found the salmon,
we still had to hope that when we

00:47:56.933 --> 00:48:01.223
got down and we had to cross that
river again, again, it hadn't come

00:48:01.223 --> 00:48:05.843
up because the bacon would've run out
and that would've been a big problem.

00:48:06.233 --> 00:48:06.983
Lack of protein.

00:48:06.983 --> 00:48:08.183
But fortunately it didn't.

00:48:08.843 --> 00:48:10.883
You go ahead.

00:48:10.883 --> 00:48:11.063
Sorry.

00:48:11.063 --> 00:48:11.993
And then I'm gonna ask, oh,

00:48:12.413 --> 00:48:12.773
Stevie Delahunt: sorry.

00:48:12.773 --> 00:48:15.563
I was gonna say, I love that you
articulated such a big tool that I

00:48:15.563 --> 00:48:19.763
talk about all the time with riders,
especially in the place of fear, is

00:48:19.763 --> 00:48:21.503
like having that moment of gratitude.

00:48:21.503 --> 00:48:23.393
There's always space for gratitude.

00:48:23.453 --> 00:48:26.543
And like, I, I'm always
using this with myself too.

00:48:26.543 --> 00:48:27.473
Like, it's silly things.

00:48:27.473 --> 00:48:29.933
Like you're like, oh, I have to get
on this other flight, like flying

00:48:29.933 --> 00:48:31.403
home from Argentina, I was tired.

00:48:31.673 --> 00:48:32.753
And I'm like, wait a second.

00:48:32.813 --> 00:48:35.663
I get to be one of the privileged
people that gets on a flight

00:48:35.663 --> 00:48:37.883
like I'm flying through the air.

00:48:37.883 --> 00:48:39.473
Like, how, how insane.

00:48:39.533 --> 00:48:39.623
Right?

00:48:39.623 --> 00:48:41.108
And you're not, you're
the airplane not going

00:48:41.108 --> 00:48:43.733
Rupert Isaacson: to some
business meeting in Queens.

00:48:44.393 --> 00:48:46.193
You're just effing.

00:48:47.258 --> 00:48:48.128
Patagonia.

00:48:48.638 --> 00:48:49.088
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

00:48:49.148 --> 00:48:51.758
Rupert Isaacson: Something cool to
somewhere else to do something cool.

00:48:51.788 --> 00:48:52.058
Yeah.

00:48:52.838 --> 00:48:54.098
Stevie Delahunt: Is it, and yeah, exactly.

00:48:54.098 --> 00:48:58.418
And I, I'm always catching, there's
some, a friend of mine had said,

00:48:58.478 --> 00:49:01.778
wouldn't it be cool if I had a brain
that allowed me to enjoy my life?

00:49:02.378 --> 00:49:04.388
And I, I always laugh at
that 'cause it's true.

00:49:04.388 --> 00:49:07.988
Like, your, your mind is always
like, has something negative to say,

00:49:08.108 --> 00:49:10.058
or oftentimes mine does at least.

00:49:10.568 --> 00:49:13.508
And I love to step in and be
like, where can I find gratitude?

00:49:13.508 --> 00:49:15.428
And you can find it anywhere
all the time because mm-hmm.

00:49:15.668 --> 00:49:16.088
Exactly.

00:49:16.088 --> 00:49:20.198
That it's like, just the wonder of
being alive in this world is always

00:49:20.198 --> 00:49:22.928
accessible and that awe and that joy.

00:49:23.258 --> 00:49:27.368
And even in the tough moments like you
were experiencing in Mongolia, yeah.

00:49:27.368 --> 00:49:32.828
That, that does sound stressful to have
the possibility, a large possibility of

00:49:32.828 --> 00:49:37.088
failure, but you cannot, you know, it's
that glass half full and half empty.

00:49:37.088 --> 00:49:41.318
You can look at the part that's half
full and what an amazing experience.

00:49:41.378 --> 00:49:44.618
And there's, there's always a
chance for perspective shift.

00:49:44.618 --> 00:49:46.718
So I really, I really like that tool.

00:49:47.008 --> 00:49:50.758
Another way to look at it that
I really like to talk to riders

00:49:50.758 --> 00:49:52.138
about when they're doing endurance.

00:49:52.348 --> 00:49:54.898
And it doesn't just have to be
riders, runners, anyone going

00:49:54.898 --> 00:49:55.918
through anything difficult.

00:49:56.368 --> 00:49:58.918
I love this little trick
of past and future.

00:49:58.918 --> 00:50:02.638
You, so like when you're in a
space that's really difficult.

00:50:03.343 --> 00:50:06.853
And you don't feel like you can
go forward or you wanna give up,

00:50:07.333 --> 00:50:08.983
you can think about past you.

00:50:08.983 --> 00:50:11.203
That's done so much to
get you to that point.

00:50:11.203 --> 00:50:15.073
So for example, if you're doing the
Goucher Derby or the Mongol Derby, you

00:50:15.073 --> 00:50:19.003
can, and you wanna give up at some point
you can be like, well, past me has worked

00:50:19.333 --> 00:50:23.353
my butt off to get here, both mentally,
emotionally, physically, financially, to

00:50:23.353 --> 00:50:29.213
put me in this spot and I can't give up
because of past me, what past me has done.

00:50:29.843 --> 00:50:33.173
And then you can look forward
and say, and what is future me?

00:50:33.173 --> 00:50:35.123
How is future me gonna
judge me in this moment?

00:50:35.663 --> 00:50:39.053
And sometimes it's really helpful to
come outta the present moment when the

00:50:39.053 --> 00:50:42.743
present moment is difficult and talk to
your past and future self, past me did

00:50:42.743 --> 00:50:44.483
too much work to get me to this point.

00:50:45.083 --> 00:50:49.523
And I have to show up and be grateful
for all that work and, and carry

00:50:49.523 --> 00:50:55.493
through and future me is gonna
judge me if I give up right now.

00:50:55.523 --> 00:50:59.303
So those are, those are some tools
I use that are in conjunction with

00:50:59.303 --> 00:51:01.763
what you're saying of finding that
awe and that wonder in the moment,

00:51:01.838 --> 00:51:03.758
Rupert Isaacson: I, I might
tell my future meter F off.

00:51:05.813 --> 00:51:06.113
Stevie Delahunt: Right?

00:51:06.563 --> 00:51:07.613
It's a little hard sometimes.

00:51:07.613 --> 00:51:07.973
Go

00:51:08.363 --> 00:51:10.918
Rupert Isaacson: f in the effing effing FF

00:51:13.253 --> 00:51:14.603
Stevie Delahunt: you're not
dealing with this right now.

00:51:15.593 --> 00:51:16.073
Like, yeah,

00:51:17.228 --> 00:51:18.683
Rupert Isaacson: hindsight's 2020, right?

00:51:18.743 --> 00:51:19.643
12 2020s.

00:51:19.643 --> 00:51:22.323
The the charm or whatever's the, okay.

00:51:22.403 --> 00:51:28.493
Or, and this feeling of gratitude
I feel often comes from mentorship.

00:51:28.553 --> 00:51:28.613
I.

00:51:29.618 --> 00:51:32.588
Who mentors you, who mentor?

00:51:32.618 --> 00:51:37.958
Who's the, who's the Mongolian
horseman or woman who has mentored you?

00:51:38.408 --> 00:51:41.108
And you talk about the
spiritual side of the horse.

00:51:42.008 --> 00:51:51.128
Talk to me about the practice of
spiritual horsemanship in Mongolia,

00:51:51.248 --> 00:51:57.818
or let's talk about it because
I feel that there's clues there.

00:51:58.268 --> 00:52:03.068
We, that, that thing we're just
reading about or giving you a

00:52:03.068 --> 00:52:04.598
gateway to the supernatural.

00:52:05.558 --> 00:52:10.508
This takes mentorship, this takes
somebody showing the way you come in as

00:52:10.508 --> 00:52:13.478
an American girl versed in horsemanship.

00:52:13.478 --> 00:52:13.778
Great.

00:52:13.928 --> 00:52:15.638
And you can run ultra marathons.

00:52:15.638 --> 00:52:16.208
Fantastic.

00:52:16.758 --> 00:52:22.108
Or ultra distances or both, or maybe,
or maybe at the same time with a cake.

00:52:22.498 --> 00:52:26.248
And then you arrive somewhere like
Mongolia and they're like, well, you

00:52:26.248 --> 00:52:31.228
know, you've come all this way to do
this thing, but this is where we live.

00:52:31.258 --> 00:52:32.068
This is us.

00:52:32.428 --> 00:52:32.788
You know?

00:52:33.248 --> 00:52:37.208
I remember when I was in Mongolia
there, there was a running joke,

00:52:37.208 --> 00:52:42.308
which was the Mongolians would say,
we know that you guys in the West,

00:52:42.488 --> 00:52:47.618
whenever you talk about somewhere
being on the ars, end of nowhere,

00:52:47.648 --> 00:52:49.088
you say, it's like in Adam Mongolia.

00:52:49.118 --> 00:52:50.438
It's like, but Adam Mongolia.

00:52:50.438 --> 00:52:51.188
For us, it's like.

00:52:51.923 --> 00:52:56.783
Where we live, it's like, where you
guys live, that's outta Mongolia to us.

00:52:57.233 --> 00:52:58.763
And I was like, you know,
absolutely, you're right.

00:52:58.823 --> 00:52:59.333
You're right.

00:52:59.423 --> 00:53:01.013
So yeah, talk to me a
little bit about that.

00:53:01.043 --> 00:53:04.613
Do you, is there a mentor or ment or Yeah.

00:53:04.613 --> 00:53:08.153
Is there a mentor out there in Mongolia
who picks you up or has picked you

00:53:08.153 --> 00:53:10.973
up and has kind of shown you the way?

00:53:11.903 --> 00:53:14.813
Stevie Delahunt: So I would say I
probably, out of the two races that I'm

00:53:14.813 --> 00:53:18.173
involved with, with Mongol Derby and
Gaucho Derby, I'm actually more connected

00:53:18.173 --> 00:53:20.753
to the race in Patagonia, in Argentina.

00:53:20.753 --> 00:53:24.923
So there's more of a relationship
there, but in both places, Mongolian

00:53:24.923 --> 00:53:29.093
and Argentina and at home, my
spiritual guides and mentors

00:53:29.093 --> 00:53:30.443
have actually been the animals.

00:53:30.713 --> 00:53:35.633
And for me, I would say the most spiritual
experience I had in Mongolia was recently

00:53:35.993 --> 00:53:41.153
doing a trip up to the re reindeer people
that sat Tribe through my friend Eric

00:53:41.153 --> 00:53:45.053
Cooper who's had like a longstanding
relationship with the same families.

00:53:45.173 --> 00:53:47.963
Going up there, I expected
to actually connect with.

00:53:49.073 --> 00:53:53.633
And they were wonderful and lovely, but I
had a crazy experience with the reindeer.

00:53:53.663 --> 00:53:54.173
I rode.

00:53:54.683 --> 00:53:58.853
I I've found my way into like
connecting with animals and speaking

00:53:58.853 --> 00:54:00.173
with them is the same as humans.

00:54:00.173 --> 00:54:04.403
You, if you take a moment of
awe and gratitude for an animal

00:54:04.403 --> 00:54:07.733
before you connect with it or ask
them to carry you in this case.

00:54:07.733 --> 00:54:09.083
So I was riding this reindeer.

00:54:09.543 --> 00:54:13.533
I was truly blown away by his antlers
and I could tell that he was very proud

00:54:13.533 --> 00:54:18.183
of them and had a moment of gratitude
for how he looked and presented himself.

00:54:18.243 --> 00:54:20.403
And we just instantly connected.

00:54:20.463 --> 00:54:27.093
And my connection to him was really,
really interesting because I was kind of

00:54:27.093 --> 00:54:31.983
asking his name and he could not give me
a name 'cause he could not see himself

00:54:31.983 --> 00:54:37.593
outside of the herd of reindeer, which was
a really beautiful and amazing experience

00:54:37.593 --> 00:54:41.223
because then I saw him through the lens
of everyone that was living in that area.

00:54:41.223 --> 00:54:44.103
Like the people do not feel that
they're separate from the land.

00:54:44.973 --> 00:54:52.763
And there's like such, such less ego
identity up there when this like symbiotic

00:54:52.853 --> 00:54:57.713
living creature that is all the creatures
together, like including the moss and

00:54:57.713 --> 00:54:59.393
the lichen that the reindeer's eating.

00:54:59.393 --> 00:55:02.723
And I really kind of felt
this, and I've had my own herd.

00:55:02.723 --> 00:55:07.433
Tell me this at home, but like if
you're digesting something, like say

00:55:07.433 --> 00:55:08.993
you've just taken a mouthful of grass.

00:55:09.608 --> 00:55:10.598
That's inside you.

00:55:10.868 --> 00:55:13.208
How is that grass now separate from you?

00:55:13.268 --> 00:55:14.558
It's within you.

00:55:14.648 --> 00:55:20.348
And at what point did the
grass become not become you or

00:55:20.408 --> 00:55:21.968
where, where's the difference?

00:55:21.968 --> 00:55:26.048
And my horses at home are, have
been telling me like, this ecosystem

00:55:26.048 --> 00:55:27.518
is all one living creature.

00:55:27.938 --> 00:55:31.298
Just because the grass blades grow
separately from the horse, the

00:55:31.298 --> 00:55:32.828
horse eventually consumes them.

00:55:33.188 --> 00:55:37.508
So where is the disconnect in where
one living thing starts and one ends?

00:55:37.508 --> 00:55:40.208
And I really felt that
again, from the reindeer up.

00:55:40.848 --> 00:55:45.468
The reindeer that I met, he, he had
no name because he saw himself as part

00:55:45.468 --> 00:55:51.378
of a hole and not like one individual
piece with one own ego identity.

00:55:51.378 --> 00:55:55.308
And just that, that perspective
shift in everyone that was up there,

00:55:55.308 --> 00:55:57.798
including the people, was wild.

00:55:58.278 --> 00:56:00.768
It was a truly wild experience to behold.

00:56:01.338 --> 00:56:01.788
And I feel.

00:56:02.268 --> 00:56:03.858
Rupert Isaacson: Why do you think, why
do you feel you don't feel that down

00:56:03.858 --> 00:56:05.688
with the horse people in the step?

00:56:06.648 --> 00:56:10.723
Stevie Delahunt: I, I have, but for the
most part the, the horse people in the

00:56:10.723 --> 00:56:16.093
step in Mongolia, were at that point
when we're interacting, it's much more

00:56:16.513 --> 00:56:18.823
back into the Western world, I guess.

00:56:18.823 --> 00:56:23.533
They're, we're all putting on a
race and money's being transacted.

00:56:23.643 --> 00:56:24.273
There's.

00:56:25.143 --> 00:56:28.653
Much more human culture that's
be become ingrained there.

00:56:28.713 --> 00:56:33.723
So it was a different world to be involved
in the step in Mongolia, in the Mongo

00:56:33.723 --> 00:56:39.573
Derby versus going up to see the reindeer
people who are up there connected to land.

00:56:39.573 --> 00:56:39.933
Have you seen

00:56:40.028 --> 00:56:41.463
Rupert Isaacson: out any
of the horse shamans?

00:56:42.633 --> 00:56:43.953
Stevie Delahunt: I have not, no.

00:56:44.523 --> 00:56:46.863
Rupert Isaacson: Are you familiar
with a concept called the wind horse?

00:56:48.003 --> 00:56:48.843
Stevie Delahunt: I'm not, no.

00:56:48.843 --> 00:56:49.023
Okay.

00:56:49.473 --> 00:56:50.763
Rupert Isaacson: It's
an interesting concept.

00:56:50.763 --> 00:56:54.493
So, one of the difficulties you
know, when I'm seeking out shamans

00:56:54.493 --> 00:56:56.753
is as you say, ego's a problem.

00:56:56.813 --> 00:57:00.443
And I speak about this as
a card carrying egomaniac.

00:57:00.863 --> 00:57:04.823
So we know the issues with ego
because we're born with them.

00:57:05.333 --> 00:57:11.073
Nonetheless, we have to try to
navigate, you know, and the difficulty

00:57:11.493 --> 00:57:17.793
can often be that peoples who have
a, who've kept a shamanic tradition,

00:57:18.003 --> 00:57:22.323
but who have a very strong warrior
tradition who've made a lot of warfare.

00:57:24.093 --> 00:57:26.193
Of course warfare is
entirely tied up with ego.

00:57:26.523 --> 00:57:31.473
And what we, one knows this
about Mongolia, that, you know,

00:57:31.563 --> 00:57:34.563
for a while it was the most
violent culture on the planet.

00:57:34.653 --> 00:57:39.153
You know, they w every two generations
they would explode out of Mongolia

00:57:39.273 --> 00:57:42.783
and kill everybody, you know, from
the Pacific to the Mediterranean.

00:57:43.023 --> 00:57:44.523
And then sort of.

00:57:45.108 --> 00:57:49.428
Run out of energy and, you know, regroup
back in Mongolia until the next time.

00:57:49.728 --> 00:57:59.118
And then somewhere in the 17th
century, a couple of Tibetan monks

00:57:59.148 --> 00:58:03.258
wandered over the, I'm simplifying it,
but basically wandered over the alt

00:58:03.468 --> 00:58:07.698
plateau and started talking to people
about this thing called Buddhism.

00:58:08.928 --> 00:58:14.208
And in about a generation, the
entire culture of warfare in

00:58:14.208 --> 00:58:18.798
Mongolia went, oh, well I guess
we're not gonna do that anymore.

00:58:19.908 --> 00:58:22.638
And it's one of the greatest
achievements in human history.

00:58:23.188 --> 00:58:30.028
You, you could argue that the West
after World War II was something similar

00:58:30.478 --> 00:58:35.848
where we fought ourselves to a point
after 10,000 years of continuous tribal

00:58:35.848 --> 00:58:38.188
warfare, where we kind of went, oh shit.

00:58:38.278 --> 00:58:43.528
Well maybe actually we kind of don't want
to actually do this at this scale anymore.

00:58:43.898 --> 00:58:46.808
But only because the scale of
the destruction was so great.

00:58:48.578 --> 00:58:52.028
The homeland of Mongolia
was never overrun, was never

00:58:52.538 --> 00:58:54.758
destroyed when they went out.

00:58:54.758 --> 00:58:55.748
They destroyed other people.

00:58:55.748 --> 00:59:00.688
They own homeland was so, so, so
the fact that they made this shift

00:59:00.748 --> 00:59:02.638
voluntarily, it's extraordinary.

00:59:04.018 --> 00:59:12.328
So the Windhorse is, concept that you
get in Tibet, but also in Mongolia

00:59:12.868 --> 00:59:16.318
where it's about, basically it's your
luck, your wind horse is your luck, your

00:59:16.318 --> 00:59:21.508
mojo, your soul, your wind horse can be
sick, your wind horse can be healthy.

00:59:22.378 --> 00:59:29.848
You can ride your wind horse to the spirit
world or to various spiritual quests.

00:59:30.448 --> 00:59:33.478
But you need to do it with the
help of a, of a shaman or a healer.

00:59:33.778 --> 00:59:36.588
And there are of course very good
shamans among the step people.

00:59:36.588 --> 00:59:39.678
And there are of course
shamans who have more ego.

00:59:40.608 --> 00:59:44.238
And as you pointed out, you,
you don't find so much of that

00:59:44.238 --> 00:59:45.288
up with the reindeer people.

00:59:45.318 --> 00:59:45.828
'cause guess what?

00:59:45.828 --> 00:59:46.578
They're not warriors.

00:59:47.568 --> 00:59:52.068
And the son, the Kalahari Bushman
that I spent so much time with,

00:59:52.188 --> 00:59:53.238
they're not warriors either.

00:59:53.478 --> 00:59:58.128
So their tradition's very pure, but
still among the horse people, I would

00:59:58.128 --> 01:00:04.758
posit that you are there to do this
spiritual journey and there's a spiritual

01:00:08.568 --> 01:00:09.438
tradition there.

01:00:10.428 --> 01:00:13.578
And as you said, the derby perhaps
less so because money's changing

01:00:13.578 --> 01:00:16.128
hands and it's, it's a business.

01:00:18.258 --> 01:00:20.718
When you said, if I'd just gone
there not for the race, it would've

01:00:20.718 --> 01:00:24.408
been tourism, that's where I
was like, eh, eh n nah, what's.

01:00:25.263 --> 01:00:28.803
What little thing is preventing
you, do you think, from seeking

01:00:28.803 --> 01:00:30.093
out those human mentors?

01:00:30.093 --> 01:00:32.973
You say, oh yeah, I go straight to
the animals and a little bit of me

01:00:32.973 --> 01:00:37.023
cries BS on that saying, but that's
an easy road because humans are more

01:00:37.023 --> 01:00:38.673
challenging and you are a human.

01:00:38.673 --> 01:00:43.268
And that is our species and that is our,
and when these people are showing up there

01:00:44.253 --> 01:00:52.353
needing that help from you, why not reach
out to and seek the help of that spiritual

01:00:52.353 --> 01:00:54.183
tradition that's right there in Mongolia?

01:00:54.633 --> 01:00:59.223
Or do you think that that's something
that's awaiting you or what, what, where?

01:00:59.463 --> 01:01:00.843
Yeah, gimme your thoughts on that.

01:01:01.743 --> 01:01:02.223
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

01:01:02.333 --> 01:01:05.093
I, you know, I said I get
mentored by the animals and all

01:01:05.093 --> 01:01:06.443
these places I go in at home.

01:01:06.443 --> 01:01:08.663
I'm also mentored by all
the people around me.

01:01:08.663 --> 01:01:13.763
I kind of feel like, personally, I
feel like the universe speaks to you

01:01:13.793 --> 01:01:15.413
however you're willing to listen.

01:01:15.503 --> 01:01:19.043
And I think I've just been much
more willing to listen to animals

01:01:19.163 --> 01:01:20.783
and now I'm actually, why is that,

01:01:20.783 --> 01:01:21.023
Rupert Isaacson: though?

01:01:21.023 --> 01:01:23.003
Why are you more willing
to listen to animals?

01:01:23.008 --> 01:01:24.618
What's the resistance about the people?

01:01:25.433 --> 01:01:26.363
Stevie Delahunt: That's a good question.

01:01:26.363 --> 01:01:28.553
And I'd say it's actually
shifting in me now.

01:01:28.553 --> 01:01:32.303
I was gonna say, the other people that
I really learn a lot from are kids.

01:01:32.663 --> 01:01:37.523
So the kids that I teach, I am blown
away by the wisdom there because they

01:01:37.523 --> 01:01:41.963
are not yet indoctrinated with by
paradigms that have been pushed on them.

01:01:41.963 --> 01:01:47.183
And they just come up with the most
pure, like, organic thoughts that really

01:01:47.183 --> 01:01:49.673
blow my mind and remind me of who I am.

01:01:50.378 --> 01:01:54.878
And with that shift going from
animals to kids, I'm now like

01:01:54.878 --> 01:01:56.558
a lot more trusting of adults.

01:01:56.718 --> 01:02:02.358
And I think I just had, growing up
I just started to learn that adults

01:02:02.358 --> 01:02:03.533
didn't always know what was going on.

01:02:04.523 --> 01:02:05.933
Rupert Isaacson: Well, we
never know what's going on.

01:02:06.198 --> 01:02:06.558
Yeah.

01:02:06.588 --> 01:02:07.248
None of us do.

01:02:07.488 --> 01:02:07.848
Don't either.

01:02:08.328 --> 01:02:09.198
I tell the kids that

01:02:09.198 --> 01:02:09.768
Stevie Delahunt: all the time.

01:02:10.398 --> 01:02:10.458
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:02:10.458 --> 01:02:12.138
Stevie Delahunt: I'm like, just
'cause I'm older than you doesn't

01:02:12.138 --> 01:02:13.248
mean I know anything more.

01:02:13.908 --> 01:02:19.398
So I think that I have shied away
from other adult human beings for

01:02:19.398 --> 01:02:23.998
quite some time because I started
to realize that as at a young age,

01:02:23.998 --> 01:02:25.828
that they humans couldn't be trusted.

01:02:26.638 --> 01:02:31.138
Rupert Isaacson: Or is it this, that
they can be trusted to be human?

01:02:32.368 --> 01:02:32.698
Stevie Delahunt: Yes.

01:02:32.698 --> 01:02:34.168
They can be trusted to be human.

01:02:35.128 --> 01:02:36.628
That's a good, that's a good point.

01:02:37.138 --> 01:02:38.668
Rupert Isaacson: And, and
when you're a kid, right?

01:02:39.268 --> 01:02:42.328
And you're dealing with playground
politics, you're having exactly

01:02:42.328 --> 01:02:43.528
the same experience, aren't you?

01:02:43.708 --> 01:02:45.208
Like, you can't trust the other kids.

01:02:45.273 --> 01:02:45.733
That's true.

01:02:45.733 --> 01:02:46.773
Or you can trust them.

01:02:46.773 --> 01:02:49.858
That's, you can trust
them to be themselves, act

01:02:49.858 --> 01:02:50.488
Stevie Delahunt: like humans.

01:02:50.488 --> 01:02:50.758
Yeah.

01:02:52.018 --> 01:02:55.888
Rupert Isaacson: And that this
seems to magnify as they get

01:02:55.888 --> 01:02:57.208
older, but as we get older.

01:02:57.208 --> 01:02:58.378
But yeah.

01:02:58.618 --> 01:03:01.318
And then of course it, one can say,
okay, well I don't feel threatened by

01:03:01.318 --> 01:03:07.408
a child, you know, so therefore I, so
it's about you to, is it about threat

01:03:08.128 --> 01:03:09.928
and the need to deal with threat?

01:03:10.078 --> 01:03:13.798
And so one can throw oneself
into extreme physical endeavor.

01:03:14.398 --> 01:03:14.848
Type two.

01:03:14.848 --> 01:03:15.208
Fun.

01:03:15.718 --> 01:03:16.498
All of these things.

01:03:16.768 --> 01:03:20.068
But no, I'm not gonna seek
out that Mongolian shaman,

01:03:20.068 --> 01:03:20.968
even though I'm in Mongolian.

01:03:20.968 --> 01:03:24.928
I'm not gonna go for this sort of
adult thing because I don't trust him.

01:03:24.928 --> 01:03:26.098
'cause I think I might get hurt.

01:03:27.058 --> 01:03:29.128
And you're right, you
might, you probably will.

01:03:29.908 --> 01:03:34.618
But maybe isn't that type two as well,
do you not need to be, you know, so,

01:03:36.358 --> 01:03:37.648
Stevie Delahunt: so that's
a really good question.

01:03:37.648 --> 01:03:37.948
Yeah.

01:03:37.948 --> 01:03:41.128
I would actually, I'm hoping
to seek out a Mongolian shaman.

01:03:41.128 --> 01:03:45.628
I just haven't found the right
connection to that or a right invitation.

01:03:45.658 --> 01:03:49.528
And probably my third mentor, as I was
saying, like the universe speaks to you

01:03:49.528 --> 01:03:52.528
in whatever modality is pres presented.

01:03:52.528 --> 01:03:56.428
I actually a really, I don't know
if enjoy is the right word, but

01:03:56.428 --> 01:03:59.118
I feel drawn to plant medicines.

01:03:59.148 --> 01:04:02.538
So that's often how I speak
and connect with the horses.

01:04:02.538 --> 01:04:05.238
So I do hero's doses of mushrooms.

01:04:05.238 --> 01:04:07.068
I've done that for a while now.

01:04:07.068 --> 01:04:08.418
And that's another way that I,

01:04:08.423 --> 01:04:08.963
Rupert Isaacson: hero's dose,

01:04:09.783 --> 01:04:10.363
Stevie Delahunt: heroes dose.

01:04:10.398 --> 01:04:13.098
I think that's like technically
for, I, I don't know what the

01:04:13.098 --> 01:04:16.908
technicality is, but for me, like four
or five grams is more than enough.

01:04:17.418 --> 01:04:18.768
So it's a large quantity.

01:04:18.768 --> 01:04:18.923
What's dose,

01:04:18.948 --> 01:04:20.083
Rupert Isaacson: what's like a microdose.

01:04:21.308 --> 01:04:23.408
Stevie Delahunt: I'm
not sure of the grams.

01:04:23.438 --> 01:04:26.888
But it's a, a microdose would be
just where you have a slightly

01:04:26.888 --> 01:04:32.438
elevated mood, so like maybe one
psilocybin mushroom in of itself.

01:04:32.528 --> 01:04:36.158
And to quantify this for people
not familiar with it, then it would

01:04:36.158 --> 01:04:39.728
be, I don't know, like seven or
eight mushrooms taking that many.

01:04:40.478 --> 01:04:42.488
Rupert Isaacson: So, and
why is it a hero's dose?

01:04:42.488 --> 01:04:44.378
Why, why is one a hero if one does that?

01:04:44.798 --> 01:04:48.798
Stevie Delahunt: I think it's a allusion
to Odysseus in the hero's journey,

01:04:48.948 --> 01:04:50.538
which is like all of our stories.

01:04:50.773 --> 01:04:51.123
Rupert Isaacson: Right?

01:04:51.258 --> 01:04:51.618
Stevie Delahunt: Right.

01:04:51.618 --> 01:04:55.338
You have to go out in the world and
come back to yourself, um Right.

01:04:55.483 --> 01:04:55.563
And

01:04:55.563 --> 01:04:57.693
Rupert Isaacson: be tested
and get freaked out.

01:04:58.243 --> 01:04:58.533
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

01:04:58.533 --> 01:04:58.813
Yeah.

01:04:59.113 --> 01:05:03.528
And that's, I would say, those
large quantities, you're definitely

01:05:03.528 --> 01:05:07.188
gonna, it's holding up a mirror to
your soul a little bit, and you have

01:05:07.188 --> 01:05:10.668
to travel through that to get to
the great stuff on the other side.

01:05:10.668 --> 01:05:10.848
So,

01:05:10.848 --> 01:05:13.728
Rupert Isaacson: so talk, who
introduced you to SLO Sullivan?

01:05:15.078 --> 01:05:19.248
Stevie Delahunt: I was a, a random
connection in an accident at a party

01:05:19.298 --> 01:05:22.778
when I first met my husband and we
had both talked about wanting to

01:05:22.778 --> 01:05:26.253
try that because we had heard about
the spiritual quality of it mm-hmm.

01:05:26.418 --> 01:05:30.558
And the realization that maybe
there's more outside the, the world

01:05:30.563 --> 01:05:33.948
that and dimension that we're in
and we were both curious about it.

01:05:34.398 --> 01:05:37.218
And our first experience was a
really beautiful one that we had

01:05:37.218 --> 01:05:39.768
together and that just blew my mind.

01:05:39.768 --> 01:05:41.178
I could literally see my thoughts.

01:05:41.178 --> 01:05:41.268
Was

01:05:41.268 --> 01:05:42.948
Rupert Isaacson: that curated by
anybody or, or did you just buy

01:05:42.948 --> 01:05:44.418
mushrooms and sit together and do them?

01:05:44.943 --> 01:05:47.193
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, we just bought
mushrooms, sat together and did them

01:05:47.193 --> 01:05:48.693
without any guidance or intention.

01:05:48.963 --> 01:05:49.683
Had no idea.

01:05:50.313 --> 01:05:50.763
Rupert Isaacson: And what, what happened?

01:05:51.343 --> 01:05:53.983
Stevie Delahunt: We ended up giggling
for a very long time sitting on the

01:05:53.983 --> 01:05:57.313
beach because we could see the awe
and wonder and everything and saw

01:05:57.313 --> 01:05:58.993
like lots of beautiful geometrics.

01:05:59.023 --> 01:06:02.413
Again, I've never had the
experience of hallucinating really

01:06:02.413 --> 01:06:03.823
beyond what's actually there.

01:06:04.283 --> 01:06:06.893
It's just a enhancement of
everything that's around you.

01:06:07.643 --> 01:06:12.203
So we had sat on the beach and
connected and we had connections back

01:06:12.203 --> 01:06:16.443
to our parents and just really, it's,
it's like a journey through your own

01:06:16.443 --> 01:06:17.853
thoughts and really examining them.

01:06:17.853 --> 01:06:21.933
It feels like hours and hours
of therapy within a minute.

01:06:24.123 --> 01:06:25.743
Rupert Isaacson: And, and then
you decided to keep going?

01:06:26.823 --> 01:06:27.183
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

01:06:27.183 --> 01:06:32.153
After that experience and having
enjoying that I continued doing trips

01:06:32.153 --> 01:06:37.133
occasionally with the horses and
I've just learned lots of really,

01:06:37.133 --> 01:06:38.328
I've had some very, when you say

01:06:38.328 --> 01:06:42.233
Rupert Isaacson: with the horses, you
mean taking SS and riding your horses?

01:06:42.653 --> 01:06:43.343
In that being,

01:06:43.463 --> 01:06:45.143
Stevie Delahunt: being in
their, in their presence.

01:06:45.143 --> 01:06:46.193
I have ridden them.

01:06:46.253 --> 01:06:51.593
But generally I just am around them
and they're, they're very drawn to it.

01:06:51.593 --> 01:06:55.093
When we have a joke, actually
there's these cushions that we

01:06:55.093 --> 01:06:56.713
used to take out to the pasture.

01:06:56.743 --> 01:07:00.683
'cause we would lay down and lay out
with the horses when we would take

01:07:00.753 --> 01:07:02.343
psilocybin to connect with them.

01:07:02.703 --> 01:07:05.013
And we call them the cushions
of enlightenment as a joke

01:07:05.013 --> 01:07:06.483
because the horses are obsessed.

01:07:06.483 --> 01:07:09.933
They think the cushions have a connection
to like how we get into that state.

01:07:10.203 --> 01:07:13.893
And so they will run up and start chewing
on the cushions, pawing them, like they

01:07:13.893 --> 01:07:15.633
lay down on top of the cushions as well.

01:07:15.633 --> 01:07:20.283
Like they're, they can tell the shift in
our energy and such a cool experience,

01:07:20.283 --> 01:07:23.823
but we have a big joke that they think
it's the cushions themselves that

01:07:23.823 --> 01:07:26.463
are causing the shift in our energy.

01:07:27.063 --> 01:07:32.103
Rupert Isaacson: When you are taking
the psilocybin among the horses,

01:07:33.363 --> 01:07:35.253
what's coming through from the horses?

01:07:36.798 --> 01:07:39.708
Stevie Delahunt: I've had
lots of different experiences.

01:07:39.778 --> 01:07:45.628
But the first and biggest and most
memorable one was I didn't really know

01:07:45.628 --> 01:07:47.668
if horses loved the way that we did.

01:07:47.758 --> 01:07:51.448
And this was probably the
most beautiful experiences.

01:07:51.568 --> 01:07:56.068
My mare Sparta, who I'm really connected
with, I was just trying to express to

01:07:56.068 --> 01:07:59.638
her like, the only message I feel like
I'm really good at giving to the horses

01:07:59.638 --> 01:08:02.398
at all times is love and gratitude.

01:08:02.758 --> 01:08:06.838
And I was sending that to her and sort
of like asking, do you love us too?

01:08:06.928 --> 01:08:11.908
And she turned and looked at me
and I could just feel it her, it

01:08:11.908 --> 01:08:13.678
was a felt sense of her thoughts.

01:08:13.678 --> 01:08:16.888
It wasn't really in English, but
I, my brain translated to that.

01:08:17.518 --> 01:08:20.908
And she was just explaining
that they have offspring too.

01:08:20.938 --> 01:08:24.628
Horses have offspring as well,
and love is an evolutionary tool.

01:08:25.198 --> 01:08:28.408
And so of course they have the
same kind of love that we do.

01:08:28.438 --> 01:08:31.408
They love their babies and so,
and they love each other and

01:08:31.408 --> 01:08:37.068
that's how a herd connects and
looks out for its for each other.

01:08:37.068 --> 01:08:39.918
And so I just had this realization
that they love in the same

01:08:39.918 --> 01:08:43.878
way that we do, that we're all
sentient beings, we're all animals.

01:08:43.878 --> 01:08:45.678
We have the same quality of love.

01:08:45.678 --> 01:08:51.828
And that was a very cool, realization and
connection that I had on one of the trips.

01:08:51.928 --> 01:08:58.458
I had, I've had horses request different
foods and and, and had really, like

01:08:58.458 --> 01:09:00.528
you, you question it afterwards, right?

01:09:00.528 --> 01:09:03.738
Like you, it's only naturally
like, did that really happen?

01:09:04.168 --> 01:09:08.638
But I've had some like really profound
realizations that came from the horses.

01:09:08.638 --> 01:09:10.378
Like they asked for slippery elm.

01:09:10.378 --> 01:09:15.898
Like one of my horses has had some
gut issues and I'd never heard

01:09:15.898 --> 01:09:18.628
of Slippery Elm before and it's
very common much something Texas

01:09:18.628 --> 01:09:18.868
Rupert Isaacson: thing.

01:09:18.868 --> 01:09:21.628
We, we had a lot of it growing
around us when I lived in Texas.

01:09:21.628 --> 01:09:21.808
Yeah.

01:09:22.468 --> 01:09:22.828
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

01:09:22.828 --> 01:09:26.038
And I never heard of it, but it
just came into my mind and it was

01:09:26.038 --> 01:09:30.988
one of our our horses hero actually
is his name was asking that we got

01:09:30.988 --> 01:09:32.728
Slippery Elm and fed it to them.

01:09:32.788 --> 01:09:36.418
And so we did like, just really
cool little things like that.

01:09:36.448 --> 01:09:40.148
The rest are like the other connections
that I've had with them on these

01:09:40.148 --> 01:09:42.398
trips are I can actually see.

01:09:43.298 --> 01:09:48.578
Energy like in geometrics, and
I can send it back and forth.

01:09:48.578 --> 01:09:52.628
Our appaloosa Sonic seems to be
really good at this, and we, I, I

01:09:52.628 --> 01:09:54.218
don't have any idea what's happening.

01:09:54.248 --> 01:09:58.808
There's something really strange
happening, but we're, I can feel

01:09:59.558 --> 01:10:02.678
energy fields around them and have
them push that back and forth.

01:10:02.678 --> 01:10:06.788
And I know that something's happening
because, and I've had a friend film me

01:10:06.848 --> 01:10:10.448
while I was on mushrooms and they were
not, and I would like push it back and

01:10:10.448 --> 01:10:14.348
the horse would lay down and like, I
mean, just really crazy interactions

01:10:14.348 --> 01:10:16.688
where you can see it without seeing it.

01:10:16.748 --> 01:10:17.618
Does that make sense?

01:10:17.678 --> 01:10:21.998
So just cool things with energy that
I'm not sure that what's going on.

01:10:21.998 --> 01:10:26.228
And then having them express
like wants and needs to us,

01:10:26.743 --> 01:10:27.033
Rupert Isaacson: like,

01:10:28.063 --> 01:10:31.128
Stevie Delahunt: just like the
slippery elm, like getting supplements

01:10:31.128 --> 01:10:35.178
or having, they often talk about
how they would like the gates open.

01:10:35.178 --> 01:10:39.288
They wanna be able to travel freely
around the property and past our property.

01:10:39.318 --> 01:10:43.698
And I've tried to explain to them that
they, can I let them go on our property?

01:10:43.698 --> 01:10:45.948
They actually get to walk all over.

01:10:45.948 --> 01:10:50.728
But I have to explain to them they
can't leave just the way our roads

01:10:50.728 --> 01:10:52.288
are and I don't want them hit by cars.

01:10:53.008 --> 01:10:53.818
Rupert Isaacson: What do they say to that?

01:10:55.363 --> 01:10:57.343
Stevie Delahunt: They kept the appaloosa.

01:10:57.343 --> 01:11:00.973
Sonic is the one that has the
biggest issue with being fenced off.

01:11:01.393 --> 01:11:03.823
And he says that he knows better
and that he would come back.

01:11:03.823 --> 01:11:05.563
He keeps saying, I'd
come back every night.

01:11:05.563 --> 01:11:06.493
I come back every night.

01:11:06.493 --> 01:11:09.763
Which that drives me back
to thinking about Mongolia.

01:11:09.763 --> 01:11:12.643
And this might be mind blowing for
a lot of people in the US that have

01:11:12.643 --> 01:11:14.353
animals that are always fenced in.

01:11:14.713 --> 01:11:16.633
And you would've experienced
this in Mongolia.

01:11:16.693 --> 01:11:19.783
It's so cool how these herds live wild.

01:11:20.353 --> 01:11:24.583
But all the goat herds, all the
yaks, all the horses, they come in

01:11:24.583 --> 01:11:26.383
at night to be around the people.

01:11:26.773 --> 01:11:31.423
And the the horses really do roam
with the people over the lands.

01:11:31.423 --> 01:11:36.673
Like they don't stray that far away, which
is like a really cool validation for the

01:11:36.673 --> 01:11:38.773
connection that humans have with horses.

01:11:39.103 --> 01:11:43.963
Like they wanna be part of our culture,
and they have, they have the ability

01:11:43.963 --> 01:11:45.643
to take off and never come back.

01:11:45.643 --> 01:11:50.293
And they, they don't do that,
which is really an amazing thing.

01:11:50.293 --> 01:11:53.953
And I think Sonic would love to be a
Mongolian horse without any fences.

01:11:54.493 --> 01:11:54.913
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

01:11:54.913 --> 01:11:56.173
And I, I, I think, yeah.

01:11:56.173 --> 01:12:00.853
So so much of that depends on the human
culture that they, the horse grew up in.

01:12:01.243 --> 01:12:04.813
If they would know to come back in
that way, some might, some might not.

01:12:04.863 --> 01:12:09.413
Yeah, I, I remember in Mongol, we, we did
actually lose one of our horses to wolves.

01:12:10.053 --> 01:12:10.383
Oh wow.

01:12:10.503 --> 01:12:10.953
Our journey.

01:12:11.493 --> 01:12:18.753
But then again, my feeling is that
if you are living in that ecosystem.

01:12:19.668 --> 01:12:22.638
You know, from the horse's point
of view, is that a, a risk worth?

01:12:22.698 --> 01:12:26.958
You know, okay, that might happen,
but it's still my environment.

01:12:26.958 --> 01:12:33.108
It's still within my remit of my quality
of life to be able to, to roam that way.

01:12:33.108 --> 01:12:34.818
So I remember asking myself that question.

01:12:34.818 --> 01:12:39.128
I'm like, shit, should we have had some
sort of corral and thinking, well, but

01:12:39.968 --> 01:12:43.148
no, their whole life is, is this, this
is sort of, sort of a natural way.

01:12:43.928 --> 01:12:44.438
Stevie Delahunt: Freedom.

01:12:44.588 --> 01:12:45.518
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, freedom.

01:12:45.578 --> 01:12:46.118
Freedom.

01:12:46.668 --> 01:12:47.473
Stevie Delahunt: And freedom for them.

01:12:47.473 --> 01:12:50.893
Freedom sometimes means, you know, risk,

01:12:51.793 --> 01:12:52.183
Rupert Isaacson: right?

01:12:52.188 --> 01:12:56.748
And you know, back to boredom and
quality of life, I, I do think

01:12:56.748 --> 01:12:59.838
that people need risk in the
same way that they need oxygen.

01:13:00.618 --> 01:13:04.128
That one can say, well, I want
to test myself or test see how I,

01:13:04.398 --> 01:13:10.008
but again, hunter-gatherer life
is just, involves a lot of risk.

01:13:10.488 --> 01:13:15.468
So if we suddenly take those risks
away, our brains don't know that

01:13:15.468 --> 01:13:19.098
we're not hunter-gatherers anymore,
and our sensory systems don't know

01:13:19.098 --> 01:13:22.188
that and they still want us to be.

01:13:22.818 --> 01:13:24.588
And surely risk is a part of that.

01:13:24.588 --> 01:13:28.878
So we'll do risk taking activities,
drive fast in the car, take drugs, you

01:13:28.878 --> 01:13:31.398
know, lefa, star, youngie type stuff

01:13:34.488 --> 01:13:36.168
because we're driven to do that.

01:13:37.173 --> 01:13:39.453
Because we're supposed to go
take a spear and see if we can

01:13:39.453 --> 01:13:40.473
come back with the wildebeest.

01:13:40.943 --> 01:13:42.713
And I, I do think that's clear.

01:13:42.713 --> 01:13:49.253
Your, your experiences with psychedelics,
do you bring those into helping people or

01:13:49.253 --> 01:13:50.933
is this just a private thing that you do?

01:13:51.813 --> 01:13:53.903
Stevie Delahunt: I have
brought it in occasionally,

01:13:54.263 --> 01:13:55.973
especially working with people.

01:13:55.973 --> 01:14:00.623
I've worked a lot with people in trailer
trauma, so for people that don't own

01:14:00.623 --> 01:14:03.023
horses trailering horses is actually

01:14:04.493 --> 01:14:05.063
Rupert Isaacson: a whole thing.

01:14:05.393 --> 01:14:06.323
Live in trailers.

01:14:06.323 --> 01:14:07.673
It's like, it's so traumatic.

01:14:07.943 --> 01:14:08.183
That

01:14:08.378 --> 01:14:08.868
Stevie Delahunt: Exactly.

01:14:16.468 --> 01:14:16.888
So sorry.

01:14:17.028 --> 01:14:21.943
So horse trailering getting horses
from point A to point B in the western

01:14:21.943 --> 01:14:27.433
world, getting them on a horse trailer
or horse float is really stressful for a

01:14:27.433 --> 01:14:31.663
lot of people, especially, I think even
more so women who are a little afraid

01:14:31.663 --> 01:14:35.863
to drive large rigs and afraid that
something will happen to their horse.

01:14:35.868 --> 01:14:37.063
Rupert Isaacson: So you get
'em to drive while they're on

01:14:37.063 --> 01:14:38.173
mushrooms and it's all fine.

01:14:38.473 --> 01:14:39.013
Yeah,

01:14:39.013 --> 01:14:39.433
Stevie Delahunt: yeah.

01:14:41.923 --> 01:14:44.833
No, just just the practice
of loading a horse.

01:14:44.883 --> 01:14:45.573
On and off.

01:14:45.603 --> 01:14:47.288
There's a lot of accidents and Yeah, sure.

01:14:47.373 --> 01:14:48.393
And trailer loading.

01:14:48.443 --> 01:14:52.733
So there's a lot of fear and trauma
and I've done a little work there

01:14:53.213 --> 01:14:58.943
of having people take low doses
to change their mindset and their.

01:14:59.498 --> 01:15:00.398
Elevate their mood.

01:15:00.428 --> 01:15:04.968
'cause again, as we were saying earlier,
I really feel that fear is a vibrational

01:15:04.968 --> 01:15:06.858
opposite of love and gratitude.

01:15:07.458 --> 01:15:10.998
And so when you're experiencing fear
and you'd rather not be like in a

01:15:10.998 --> 01:15:13.638
situation with a horse where you're
translating and transmitting that

01:15:13.638 --> 01:15:18.248
fear and anxiety to the animal if you
step back and can have a moment of

01:15:18.248 --> 01:15:20.948
gratitude, you can change the situation.

01:15:20.953 --> 01:15:21.153
Mm-hmm.

01:15:21.153 --> 01:15:25.148
Now we all know it's really easy to say
that and almost impossible to do that,

01:15:25.148 --> 01:15:29.198
especially if you've had a cycle and
pattern of having traumatic events happen

01:15:29.258 --> 01:15:33.368
Rupert Isaacson: or if there's some
time pressure on you or some external

01:15:33.368 --> 01:15:36.848
circumstance that says you need to
get this horse on this trailer now.

01:15:36.908 --> 01:15:37.433
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:15:37.448 --> 01:15:38.348
Stevie Delahunt: Absolutely.

01:15:38.378 --> 01:15:40.868
Especially in a veterinary
emergency or whatnot.

01:15:40.898 --> 01:15:40.988
Mm-hmm.

01:15:41.228 --> 01:15:46.598
So having a low dose situation for
the people working with the horse can

01:15:46.598 --> 01:15:48.428
help rewrite those brain patterns.

01:15:48.428 --> 01:15:53.988
They say taking psilocybin is a little
bit like looking at a ski hill, and

01:15:53.988 --> 01:15:57.288
you can see all the ski tracks that
you usually take down the mountain.

01:15:57.288 --> 01:16:01.638
And if you keep taking the same track down
the mountain over and over again, you're

01:16:01.668 --> 01:16:04.248
making those ruts deeper and deeper.

01:16:04.248 --> 01:16:09.178
So that's the loop or the neuro pattern
that you're following all the time.

01:16:09.538 --> 01:16:11.908
And taking psilocybin is a
little bit like fresh snow.

01:16:12.778 --> 01:16:16.048
Where there's no tracks now on the
mountain to follow down and you can

01:16:16.048 --> 01:16:18.178
rewrite how you go down the mountain.

01:16:18.618 --> 01:16:23.118
And in that light, having people
have this moment to be able to step

01:16:23.118 --> 01:16:28.008
back and actually have the ability
to be choose gratitude over fear in

01:16:28.008 --> 01:16:29.898
the moment can change their energy.

01:16:29.958 --> 01:16:34.458
And then when this happens, you can have
really successful stories where a horse

01:16:34.458 --> 01:16:38.478
that would never load before because the
owner had so much anxiety in getting them

01:16:38.478 --> 01:16:43.128
in the trailer, suddenly is able to load
that horse because they're able to choose

01:16:43.128 --> 01:16:47.748
gratitude and presence over the stories
in their head about what might happen.

01:16:48.708 --> 01:16:50.808
So that's, that's where I've
done some work with people.

01:16:50.808 --> 01:16:50.898
And

01:16:51.378 --> 01:16:55.108
Rupert Isaacson: are you, are you then
using the psilocybin in a sort of like

01:16:55.108 --> 01:16:56.638
a therapy session away from the horse?

01:16:56.638 --> 01:16:59.908
Or are you actually saying, no, let's take
a small dose and, and load that horse?

01:17:00.598 --> 01:17:02.578
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, we're
doing, we're doing both.

01:17:02.578 --> 01:17:04.019
Depends on how deep the trauma is.

01:17:04.358 --> 01:17:05.978
But generally it's with the horse.

01:17:06.398 --> 01:17:06.728
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:17:07.208 --> 01:17:07.538
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

01:17:08.588 --> 01:17:13.538
Rupert Isaacson: I'm thinking about
that rewriting of neural pathways.

01:17:14.348 --> 01:17:17.638
Are you, have you ever worked with peyote?

01:17:18.898 --> 01:17:19.678
Stevie Delahunt: I have not.

01:17:19.678 --> 01:17:21.718
I would be interested
in it, but I have not.

01:17:22.168 --> 01:17:26.008
Rupert Isaacson: So our mutual
friend, Warwick Schiller and I

01:17:26.008 --> 01:17:27.958
found ourselves in a sweat lodge.

01:17:28.563 --> 01:17:32.708
With another mutual friend, Joel, who
you also know, Joel done that with a,

01:17:32.788 --> 01:17:37.943
a, a very good healer, Stephen forth
who's in the Lakota tradition and who

01:17:37.948 --> 01:17:39.378
I must actually have on the podcast.

01:17:40.398 --> 01:17:42.948
And I was going through
a pretty major funk.

01:17:44.088 --> 01:17:48.938
And Steven who knew me, said,
oh, Rupert, you are, you're

01:17:48.938 --> 01:17:50.498
on the struggle bus, you know?

01:17:50.498 --> 01:17:51.698
I'm like, yeah, yeah, I am.

01:17:52.208 --> 01:17:57.028
And he said, I think honestly, I
recommend that you do some medicine.

01:17:58.438 --> 01:18:01.518
And I said, that's the
last thing I need, Steven.

01:18:01.518 --> 01:18:05.838
You know, I, I'm just barely clinging onto
the cliff face by my fingernails here,

01:18:06.078 --> 01:18:07.668
and you want to give me some psychotropic?

01:18:07.668 --> 01:18:11.508
No, the answer is not just, no,
but bleep, no, you know, it's,

01:18:11.508 --> 01:18:12.558
it's the last thing I need.

01:18:13.368 --> 01:18:15.378
And he said, you know, Rupert,
how long have you known me?

01:18:15.383 --> 01:18:17.118
And I said, well, a long time.

01:18:17.148 --> 01:18:20.718
And he said, you know, why
are you in here with me?

01:18:20.778 --> 01:18:24.198
I said, well, 'cause you're a
healer and I trust you and stuff.

01:18:24.738 --> 01:18:31.028
And he goes, have I ever you know that,
you know, medicine, IE peyote is very

01:18:31.028 --> 01:18:35.198
much a part of what we do, but have I
ever suggested to you to do it before?

01:18:35.408 --> 01:18:36.158
Mm, no.

01:18:36.958 --> 01:18:40.588
He said, well, I do you, do
You trust me as a professional?

01:18:41.758 --> 01:18:42.478
That's a gateway.

01:18:42.478 --> 01:18:42.778
Yes.

01:18:42.778 --> 01:18:44.068
Right, right.

01:18:44.068 --> 01:18:50.788
And they said, look, Ru, of course I
understand exactly where you are and

01:18:50.818 --> 01:18:56.668
there's no way I would deliver a dose
to you that would do what you fear.

01:18:56.908 --> 01:19:02.263
However, the, the medicine is a medicine
and if you can trust me, I and I,

01:19:05.098 --> 01:19:10.078
so anyway, after some
whining and whinging I did.

01:19:10.468 --> 01:19:14.598
And what was so interesting you talking
about rewriting the neural pathways

01:19:16.668 --> 01:19:21.258
after a certain time had passed and
we're in the sweat lodge praying and,

01:19:21.318 --> 01:19:26.658
you know, singing and as one does and
sweating, I began to feel you, you're

01:19:26.658 --> 01:19:28.968
familiar with a PowerPoint presentation.

01:19:28.968 --> 01:19:34.128
You had that little red laser dot, it
felt like I had a little red laser dot

01:19:34.368 --> 01:19:39.348
going up my leg or my right leg where I've
got some little bits of tension and pain

01:19:39.348 --> 01:19:43.698
and it would just go to the place where
there was tension and pain and kind of go

01:19:48.408 --> 01:19:50.568
and it would release and then
it would go to the next one,

01:19:52.973 --> 01:19:53.263
beep.

01:19:54.078 --> 01:19:55.908
And it went up like this through my body.

01:19:56.688 --> 01:19:58.098
And I was like, well, this is interesting.

01:19:59.268 --> 01:20:00.378
And then it went into my brain.

01:20:02.163 --> 01:20:05.673
And it went to everywhere.

01:20:05.823 --> 01:20:11.103
I had anxiety as like a
physical place and just went,

01:20:13.598 --> 01:20:15.243
beep, gone.

01:20:17.253 --> 01:20:18.213
Did this for a while.

01:20:19.263 --> 01:20:19.863
And then

01:20:22.083 --> 01:20:23.673
I thought, well, this is wonderful.

01:20:24.543 --> 01:20:29.343
However, this is a drug, so it will
pass, and then I will be back in the

01:20:29.343 --> 01:20:31.533
same position that I was in before.

01:20:33.363 --> 01:20:34.833
But it didn't, it never came back.

01:20:34.833 --> 01:20:35.673
It never went away.

01:20:37.743 --> 01:20:39.393
So it is really interesting.

01:20:39.423 --> 01:20:46.053
I, I agree with you how tropic
psychedelics, whatever one wants to call

01:20:46.053 --> 01:20:52.263
them, that have been pursued by humans
for hundreds of thousands of years,

01:20:52.803 --> 01:20:58.353
for very good reason, seem to be able
to radically change our internal as

01:20:58.353 --> 01:21:04.623
whether, and our external environment
in a way that gives us a perspective

01:21:04.803 --> 01:21:09.303
that allows us to override neural
pathways that are no longer helpful.

01:21:10.203 --> 01:21:15.423
Provided the person who is delivering
to us knows what they're doing.

01:21:15.833 --> 01:21:18.203
You know, in the same way that
one would hope a doctor knows what

01:21:18.203 --> 01:21:23.113
they're doing, if they give us a, you
know, a, a pharmaceutical you talk

01:21:23.203 --> 01:21:27.553
about being more drawn to Patagonia.

01:21:29.143 --> 01:21:32.173
And your gaucho experiences
there, the gaucho derby.

01:21:32.443 --> 01:21:33.433
Why is that?

01:21:33.463 --> 01:21:38.053
Why is it that landscape
that has drawn you so much?

01:21:38.293 --> 01:21:42.703
As you may know, if you've been following
my work, we are also horsey folk here.

01:21:43.208 --> 01:21:47.698
And we have been training horses for
many, many years in the manner of

01:21:47.748 --> 01:21:50.908
the old classical dressage masters.

01:21:51.338 --> 01:21:54.128
This is something which is
often very confusing for people.

01:21:54.518 --> 01:21:59.518
We shine a light on that murky, difficult
stuff and make it crystal clear.

01:21:59.778 --> 01:22:04.608
If you'd like to learn to train your
horse in the manner of the old masters and

01:22:04.608 --> 01:22:10.408
really have fun and joy for you and your
equine, go to our website, heliosharmony.

01:22:10.408 --> 01:22:12.738
com Sign up as a premium member.

01:22:13.058 --> 01:22:17.068
and begin to take the Helios Harmony
course, which will take you from zero

01:22:17.538 --> 01:22:22.668
to the Piaf, where the horse is dancing
on the spot in hand on the ground.

01:22:23.258 --> 01:22:26.968
And then from there, you can
develop out to anywhere you want to.

01:22:27.928 --> 01:22:28.668
Heliosharmony.

01:22:29.178 --> 01:22:32.848
com to unlock the secrets
of the old masters.

01:22:33.253 --> 01:22:35.803
And then you also talked, you,
you, you alluded to the fact

01:22:35.803 --> 01:22:39.553
that you might actually have
some human mentors down there.

01:22:40.263 --> 01:22:42.783
Talk to us about your
experience in Patagonia.

01:22:44.343 --> 01:22:45.423
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, absolutely.

01:22:45.513 --> 01:22:50.233
I think again it's funny that in
our conversation I've noticed like

01:22:50.233 --> 01:22:52.723
my avoidance of humans to a degree.

01:22:52.783 --> 01:22:53.233
Oh really?

01:22:53.233 --> 01:22:53.953
Rupert Isaacson: Have you noticed that?

01:22:53.953 --> 01:22:54.973
I haven't noticed that at all.

01:22:54.973 --> 01:22:56.503
It's funny you mentioned that.

01:22:58.963 --> 01:23:02.873
Stevie Delahunt: So I, I really
my husband's from South Africa and

01:23:02.873 --> 01:23:04.613
there's a saying that actually work.

01:23:04.673 --> 01:23:07.523
Our mutual friend work Schiller
has brought up that a guest of his

01:23:07.523 --> 01:23:11.603
headset said that in Africa there's
an energy about Africa and every

01:23:11.603 --> 01:23:14.963
day that you wake up that everything
else is waking up, up in Africa.

01:23:15.173 --> 01:23:15.413
Rupert Isaacson: For sure.

01:23:15.413 --> 01:23:15.833
What was that?

01:23:16.223 --> 01:23:18.023
You feel more alive down there for sure.

01:23:18.053 --> 01:23:18.593
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

01:23:18.683 --> 01:23:22.703
You're more aware and more in
your body, but because you're a

01:23:22.703 --> 01:23:23.933
little bit living in fear mm-hmm.

01:23:24.173 --> 01:23:25.943
Like there, it's much more dangerous.

01:23:26.423 --> 01:23:28.163
And today could be the day that you die.

01:23:28.373 --> 01:23:28.763
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

01:23:28.763 --> 01:23:29.033
And you.

01:23:29.393 --> 01:23:31.283
Stevie Delahunt: You wake up with
that energy and you feel it, but

01:23:31.283 --> 01:23:33.563
it's also like a very human energy.

01:23:33.593 --> 01:23:38.388
Like there's, there's it, it feels
like where humanity came from

01:23:38.388 --> 01:23:39.948
is, there's just a deeper energy.

01:23:39.983 --> 01:23:40.223
It's

01:23:40.223 --> 01:23:40.903
Rupert Isaacson: where humanity came from.

01:23:42.763 --> 01:23:43.728
Stevie Delahunt: It feels that way.

01:23:44.388 --> 01:23:45.048
Exactly.

01:23:45.678 --> 01:23:51.018
And so that the energy in Africa is
almost the opposite of what it is

01:23:51.018 --> 01:23:56.358
in Patagonia When you're down there,
it feels so, such earth energy.

01:23:56.373 --> 01:23:56.793
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:23:56.808 --> 01:23:57.198
And I think

01:23:57.198 --> 01:24:01.848
Stevie Delahunt: it's that
volcanic and glacial landscape.

01:24:02.238 --> 01:24:08.598
It feels devoid of humans and
it's just a deep feeling of this

01:24:08.598 --> 01:24:11.178
might be what the earth would
look like without people on it.

01:24:11.818 --> 01:24:14.488
Just kind of inhospitable at times.

01:24:14.488 --> 01:24:18.838
Like a hundred mile an hour winds
very often, like just insane.

01:24:18.838 --> 01:24:20.698
You're getting closer to
Antarctica down there.

01:24:20.698 --> 01:24:25.508
It's like at the very tip of
Argentina the Patagonia area.

01:24:26.168 --> 01:24:29.978
And I think it feels like
home to me down there.

01:24:29.978 --> 01:24:33.398
There's just a beautiful
energy of the earth and being

01:24:33.398 --> 01:24:34.868
connected back to the earth.

01:24:35.018 --> 01:24:40.838
And I think the landscape itself
feels like a mentor to me down there.

01:24:40.918 --> 01:24:44.788
And then the people that choose to
call it home feel that same way.

01:24:45.178 --> 01:24:48.928
And I feel instantly at peace
being around around them.

01:24:48.958 --> 01:24:52.678
We have a particular
family at the Estancia le.

01:24:53.578 --> 01:24:54.298
Perseverance.

01:24:54.298 --> 01:24:54.538
Yeah.

01:24:54.568 --> 01:25:00.328
So that translates as perseverance
Ranch, and they're, they're at the

01:25:00.328 --> 01:25:04.498
ends of the earth down there and all
the whole family that's chosen to

01:25:04.498 --> 01:25:06.748
live there has that feeling as well.

01:25:06.748 --> 01:25:10.108
Like they feel so connected to
that land and so at peace with

01:25:10.108 --> 01:25:12.328
the harshness of the earth itself.

01:25:12.978 --> 01:25:19.518
And so looking, getting to spend time
with them is sort of clarifying and

01:25:19.698 --> 01:25:22.788
confronting, if that makes sense.

01:25:22.788 --> 01:25:22.938
So

01:25:22.938 --> 01:25:23.958
Rupert Isaacson: talk to
me about these people.

01:25:24.008 --> 01:25:27.008
Who are they and what
have they taught you?

01:25:28.328 --> 01:25:32.618
Stevie Delahunt: They've, they've kind
of, and I actually get this a lot from

01:25:32.618 --> 01:25:34.718
my husband who is South African as well.

01:25:34.868 --> 01:25:38.198
I think Who you, where
do I start with this?

01:25:38.468 --> 01:25:41.228
I guess that they are just
made of tougher stuff.

01:25:42.518 --> 01:25:47.283
I, I really admire people that, you
know, you get a scratch on your hand

01:25:47.283 --> 01:25:50.403
and they, or, or you're bleeding
and they're like, ah, I'm fine.

01:25:50.793 --> 01:25:53.943
And they're able to like,
push through the small things.

01:25:54.093 --> 01:25:57.393
And that, I guess like in the
culture I grew up and you get

01:25:57.393 --> 01:25:58.863
scratch on your hand immediately.

01:25:59.163 --> 01:26:04.323
Your mom's grabbing a bandaid, making a
big fuss, like, every little thing that's

01:26:04.323 --> 01:26:07.443
small is blown up beyond proportion.

01:26:07.443 --> 01:26:12.833
I feel like in our softer, westernized
culture and when I'm down in

01:26:12.833 --> 01:26:19.253
Patagonia with these people who might
get dumped off a horse, you fall

01:26:19.253 --> 01:26:22.313
on the ground, you get right back
on, you keep riding, no big deal.

01:26:22.643 --> 01:26:26.493
There are no, no big fuss is
made over the small things.

01:26:27.093 --> 01:26:31.833
And I feel like my South African
husband is also quite like this.

01:26:31.833 --> 01:26:38.023
And I, I think I'm drawn to
that, that assuredness and

01:26:38.023 --> 01:26:41.143
that confidence of existence.

01:26:41.443 --> 01:26:43.813
I don't know if I'm articulating
this very well today.

01:26:43.818 --> 01:26:44.053
No, no, I

01:26:44.053 --> 01:26:44.383
Rupert Isaacson: agree.

01:26:44.383 --> 01:26:47.113
The question that comes up in my mind is
you live in the Western states, right?

01:26:47.413 --> 01:26:48.373
Where do you live again?

01:26:48.973 --> 01:26:50.203
Stevie Delahunt: I live in Oregon now.

01:26:50.203 --> 01:26:50.413
Yeah.

01:26:50.413 --> 01:26:52.063
And you live in South California, the

01:26:52.063 --> 01:26:53.113
Rupert Isaacson: high, the high desert.

01:26:53.473 --> 01:26:54.043
Stevie Delahunt: That's correct.

01:26:54.223 --> 01:26:56.053
Rupert Isaacson: I would, I would
presume that there's lots of ranches

01:26:56.053 --> 01:27:00.193
around you who you could argue
who, who, who would live exactly.

01:27:00.193 --> 01:27:02.503
That life that you're talking
about in Patagonia know that they,

01:27:03.313 --> 01:27:05.593
that they're living out there.

01:27:05.623 --> 01:27:08.293
It's a pretty unforgiving landscape.

01:27:08.713 --> 01:27:13.543
They probably get dumped off their
horse and cut quite a lot and get up.

01:27:13.543 --> 01:27:19.483
And what, what's the difference between
the people in the high desert in Oregon

01:27:19.543 --> 01:27:21.703
and the people down in Patagonia?

01:27:21.883 --> 01:27:25.603
Or is it just more to be in
a, a new and exotic place?

01:27:25.603 --> 01:27:25.663
I.

01:27:27.158 --> 01:27:29.228
Stevie Delahunt: Maybe it is the
place itself, but I think that

01:27:29.228 --> 01:27:30.758
there is a level of toughness.

01:27:30.758 --> 01:27:35.408
Like even in Oregon, you can, something
goes wrong, you can drive 20 minutes and

01:27:35.408 --> 01:27:39.968
you've got every store and chain that
you could think of or a hospital mm-hmm.

01:27:40.213 --> 01:27:40.613
To get to.

01:27:40.868 --> 01:27:41.168
Mm-hmm.

01:27:41.408 --> 01:27:46.358
Out in Patagonia, it's, I think it's
an eight hour drive to anything.

01:27:46.718 --> 01:27:46.838
Yeah.

01:27:46.838 --> 01:27:47.438
Where we're at.

01:27:47.678 --> 01:27:51.398
And at minimum, I mean, if you're out
on horseback, that's like a day or two.

01:27:52.018 --> 01:27:55.138
It's, and that's also like an
advent of the Mongol Derby as well.

01:27:55.138 --> 01:27:59.368
Or being out in Mongolia, there's
truly a separation from society and

01:27:59.368 --> 01:28:03.358
yourself, which makes you so much
that assuredness I'm talking about.

01:28:03.358 --> 01:28:04.948
You're so much more self-sufficient.

01:28:04.948 --> 01:28:07.918
You're looking, you know, when we
have the opportunity to have someone

01:28:07.918 --> 01:28:12.118
else take care of things for us, we
often are lazy part of our brain.

01:28:12.178 --> 01:28:13.078
We'll jump to that.

01:28:13.328 --> 01:28:14.528
But if you're the only relaxed to

01:28:14.798 --> 01:28:15.098
Rupert Isaacson: conserv energy.

01:28:15.188 --> 01:28:15.693
Yeah, yeah,

01:28:15.788 --> 01:28:16.508
Stevie Delahunt: exactly.

01:28:16.508 --> 01:28:16.748
Yeah.

01:28:16.748 --> 01:28:17.798
It's evolutionary.

01:28:17.878 --> 01:28:22.888
But when you're the only person that you
can look to for things, you become that.

01:28:23.548 --> 01:28:24.058
And

01:28:25.408 --> 01:28:28.138
Rupert Isaacson: I presume though
that when you're, because when you're

01:28:28.138 --> 01:28:33.018
doing the derby so we say derby, if
we're English, this built into us.

01:28:33.018 --> 01:28:33.318
That's right.

01:28:33.468 --> 01:28:34.518
Very hard to say Derby.

01:28:34.518 --> 01:28:36.183
It's like, I try to say, so there's

01:28:36.183 --> 01:28:37.488
Stevie Delahunt: a British
company that puts them on.

01:28:37.488 --> 01:28:38.624
So is the Derby Darbys,

01:28:39.423 --> 01:28:41.808
Rupert Isaacson: the Darbys the, the.

01:28:43.638 --> 01:28:45.318
It's effectively tourism.

01:28:45.958 --> 01:28:51.568
Admittedly high adventure tourism,
but still, if people get in trouble,

01:28:51.628 --> 01:28:52.648
you gotta get 'em out of there.

01:28:52.648 --> 01:28:55.438
And if, if people get hurt,
you've got to tend to them.

01:28:55.968 --> 01:29:01.378
So you must have to put in all
kinds of infrastructure that

01:29:01.468 --> 01:29:05.038
wouldn't normally be there in order
to make sure people don't die.

01:29:05.518 --> 01:29:07.318
So how do you do that?

01:29:08.338 --> 01:29:09.178
Stevie Delahunt: Absolutely.

01:29:09.178 --> 01:29:13.048
I think, I think before what I was
thinking of the phrase, which ties

01:29:13.048 --> 01:29:16.648
into this is radical self-reliance
is what you're looking for out there.

01:29:16.648 --> 01:29:20.338
I like, and that's actually a principle
of Burning Man that I've stolen, but

01:29:20.338 --> 01:29:24.238
I use it when I'm training everyone
in their Goucher Derby in Mongo Derby.

01:29:24.238 --> 01:29:27.118
I'm like, you need to be
radically self-reliant.

01:29:27.658 --> 01:29:30.148
And I think that that's the
quality that it was sort of in.

01:29:30.658 --> 01:29:32.098
Rupert Isaacson: But nonetheless, if
they fall off and break their leg,

01:29:32.098 --> 01:29:33.568
you'll go in there, find them, and

01:29:33.568 --> 01:29:34.828
Stevie Delahunt: we'll go and get them.

01:29:34.828 --> 01:29:38.908
So yeah, we have actually a really cool
team of medics that we bring along that

01:29:38.908 --> 01:29:42.028
are horsemen and medic and medics as well.

01:29:42.568 --> 01:29:43.258
And.

01:29:43.873 --> 01:29:47.023
Yeah, for the MGO Derby,
very easy to extract people.

01:29:47.023 --> 01:29:48.763
We have road accessibility.

01:29:48.763 --> 01:29:51.373
I mean, you've been out there, they
can drive a Prius over anything in

01:29:51.373 --> 01:29:52.723
Mongolia, which is pretty crazy.

01:29:53.443 --> 01:29:54.253
Rupert Isaacson: Drive it across the step.

01:29:54.253 --> 01:29:55.018
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:29:55.903 --> 01:29:58.513
Stevie Delahunt: I kind of feel
like the Prius Toyota's missing an

01:29:58.513 --> 01:30:02.113
opportunity there and some great
commercials for the Toyota Prius.

01:30:02.113 --> 01:30:03.103
'cause I've seen those things.

01:30:03.103 --> 01:30:05.058
Ford Rivers do insane.

01:30:05.058 --> 01:30:05.298
Yeah,

01:30:05.408 --> 01:30:05.698
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.

01:30:05.698 --> 01:30:06.378
Andro insane

01:30:06.383 --> 01:30:06.673
Stevie Delahunt: stuff.

01:30:08.023 --> 01:30:08.263
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:30:08.503 --> 01:30:10.423
We've messed them up mountains, but, okay.

01:30:10.423 --> 01:30:13.423
But if you, if you, if someone has
an accident and they are gonna have

01:30:13.423 --> 01:30:15.313
accidents, 'cause it's a dangerous thing.

01:30:15.613 --> 01:30:18.733
Let's sit, it's down in Patagonia,
eight hours drive from something and

01:30:18.733 --> 01:30:20.263
someone is in some critical condition.

01:30:20.263 --> 01:30:22.873
So what, what, what's the
infrastructure that you put in?

01:30:22.873 --> 01:30:23.743
I'm, I'm intrigued.

01:30:24.508 --> 01:30:26.538
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, the
infrastructure a little bit.

01:30:26.688 --> 01:30:30.198
So, like I was saying, Mongolia
is much safer because we can, it's

01:30:30.198 --> 01:30:33.498
road accessible almost the entire
way, but Goucher Derby is not.

01:30:33.548 --> 01:30:36.668
And we have to have everyone,
entire crew medics, everyone

01:30:36.668 --> 01:30:38.258
has to be able to ride a horse.

01:30:38.308 --> 01:30:40.138
Veterinarians have to
be able to ride a horse.

01:30:40.218 --> 01:30:44.463
We have a helicopter on standby, but
the winds in Patagonia are pretty

01:30:44.463 --> 01:30:46.143
much biblical almost all the time.

01:30:46.143 --> 01:30:50.643
So that interferes with the helicopter's
ability to come and get people.

01:30:50.703 --> 01:30:53.793
My first year, or sorry, the
Gaucho Derby, the first year it

01:30:53.793 --> 01:30:57.363
ran was a pioneer edition where it
was not a fully formed race yet.

01:30:57.423 --> 01:31:01.743
And so my husband and I were invited to
race and we actually got caught out in

01:31:01.743 --> 01:31:03.573
a massive snow storm in the mountains.

01:31:03.723 --> 01:31:05.643
And it was very unexpected.

01:31:05.643 --> 01:31:08.673
We hadn't, none of us had known where
the race was gonna go, so no one

01:31:08.673 --> 01:31:10.203
had the equipment to deal with snow.

01:31:10.803 --> 01:31:15.253
And we had five people that ended up
needing to be life flighted out of the

01:31:15.253 --> 01:31:17.323
mountains because they had hypothermia.

01:31:17.993 --> 01:31:20.873
But that couldn't happen until
the winds and the storm died down.

01:31:21.393 --> 01:31:26.293
So yes, there's infrastructure
in place, helicopter medics but

01:31:26.293 --> 01:31:29.323
oftentimes the weather and the
terrain and Patagonia still will

01:31:29.323 --> 01:31:31.123
make it impossible to get to you.

01:31:31.123 --> 01:31:34.903
So there is an element of, yes, you
could really die doing these races.

01:31:35.483 --> 01:31:36.418
And that was our, has anyone

01:31:36.418 --> 01:31:36.658
Rupert Isaacson: died?

01:31:37.373 --> 01:31:39.323
Stevie Delahunt: No
one has, knock on wood.

01:31:40.073 --> 01:31:40.433
Yeah.

01:31:40.463 --> 01:31:41.183
No one has.

01:31:42.383 --> 01:31:45.233
Rupert Isaacson: And when these people
had hypothermia and they needed to come

01:31:45.233 --> 01:31:49.013
out, how did they contact you to say, or
how did they contact the helicopter crew?

01:31:49.643 --> 01:31:51.203
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah,
that's, that's a good point.

01:31:51.203 --> 01:31:53.333
And what I glossed over in
our infrastructure, your

01:31:53.333 --> 01:31:55.523
Rupert Isaacson: ability to
do things like that, you know,

01:31:55.523 --> 01:31:57.023
goes away with hypothermia.

01:31:57.083 --> 01:31:57.353
Yeah.

01:31:57.383 --> 01:31:57.683
So,

01:31:58.733 --> 01:32:01.543
Stevie Delahunt: yeah, luckily,
so everyone has an Garmin inReach

01:32:02.243 --> 01:32:03.533
which connects to your phone.

01:32:03.533 --> 01:32:07.133
So you basically can text message at all
times, even without satellite signal.

01:32:07.543 --> 01:32:11.653
So when inclement weather's coming
in headquarters back in Bristol,

01:32:11.653 --> 01:32:14.413
we will send information out,
Hey, there's a storm coming.

01:32:14.413 --> 01:32:17.143
We need you to take cover,
which was the situation there.

01:32:17.143 --> 01:32:19.543
And people were able to
say, I'm not doing well.

01:32:19.973 --> 01:32:23.693
And when they sent out that
information, I'm not doing well.

01:32:23.693 --> 01:32:25.213
And the storm is happening.

01:32:25.643 --> 01:32:28.163
Headquarters came back and
gave them GPS coordinates.

01:32:28.223 --> 01:32:33.413
So on top of having the Garmin in
reach, we also have GPS systems.

01:32:33.443 --> 01:32:38.963
They're the older Garmin 64 s and that
way you can navigate to certain points.

01:32:38.963 --> 01:32:43.703
And they headquarters ended up giving
everyone a central location, brought all

01:32:43.703 --> 01:32:46.493
the riders together so that they could
be extracted by helicopter when the

01:32:46.493 --> 01:32:50.573
weather cleared, but also got them into
one place so that we could start a fire

01:32:50.633 --> 01:32:54.353
and warm everybody up in the same area
and have people looking after each other.

01:32:54.353 --> 01:32:54.445
And they weren't

01:32:54.450 --> 01:32:56.663
Rupert Isaacson: on with hypothermia
that they couldn't map the horse and

01:32:56.663 --> 01:32:58.673
ride it to that rendezvous point.

01:32:59.453 --> 01:32:59.903
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

01:32:59.903 --> 01:33:03.503
They actually made the rendezvous point
at the two riders that were the most

01:33:03.603 --> 01:33:04.473
Rupert Isaacson: badly not doing

01:33:04.473 --> 01:33:04.713
Stevie Delahunt: well.

01:33:04.773 --> 01:33:05.043
Yeah.

01:33:05.068 --> 01:33:05.358
That

01:33:05.493 --> 01:33:06.243
Rupert Isaacson: makes Okay.

01:33:06.243 --> 01:33:07.743
That, that's, that's wise.

01:33:07.833 --> 01:33:08.103
Yeah.

01:33:09.198 --> 01:33:12.498
Stevie Delahunt: So, there's a whole team
around the world that's always working

01:33:12.678 --> 01:33:17.058
while the races are happening to have
constant communication with riders.

01:33:17.558 --> 01:33:19.658
And in that case, that's
what saved everyone's life.

01:33:19.748 --> 01:33:21.728
They're the people who are
putting everything together and

01:33:21.728 --> 01:33:22.898
getting everyone in one place.

01:33:22.928 --> 01:33:26.318
Additionally my coworker Eric,
who is also the one that runs the

01:33:26.318 --> 01:33:28.933
trips to the sadden people mm-hmm.

01:33:29.013 --> 01:33:34.208
He was able to start an emergency
fire and get people warmed up and dry.

01:33:34.208 --> 01:33:37.418
And I honestly think just starting
that fire truly saved lives.

01:33:37.868 --> 01:33:40.778
And I was like, we joke about
it, but we're like, how cool?

01:33:40.838 --> 01:33:44.958
Like we always say, a good barometer for
what you're doing is or if what you're

01:33:44.958 --> 01:33:49.238
doing in life is what you should be
doing would your 8-year-old self approve?

01:33:49.538 --> 01:33:53.318
And Eric is laughing and saying,
this is always what I dreamed

01:33:53.318 --> 01:33:55.898
of as a kid, that starting a
fire would save everyone's life.

01:33:56.498 --> 01:34:01.178
You know, you as a kid when you go out
and go camping and learn to start fires.

01:34:01.328 --> 01:34:02.318
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, definitely.

01:34:02.858 --> 01:34:03.398
And it

01:34:03.398 --> 01:34:03.903
Stevie Delahunt: really did.

01:34:05.318 --> 01:34:09.208
Rupert Isaacson: I was thinking of a, a
ride I did once in Latu in South Africa.

01:34:09.208 --> 01:34:10.228
You're probably familiar with it.

01:34:10.228 --> 01:34:11.248
And it's very high cold.

01:34:11.248 --> 01:34:11.368
I love

01:34:11.758 --> 01:34:12.148
Stevie Delahunt: latu.

01:34:12.568 --> 01:34:15.178
Rupert Isaacson: And we got caught
out in some really bad weather

01:34:15.538 --> 01:34:20.148
and our guide started a fire in.

01:34:20.823 --> 01:34:24.393
Just a torrential icy rain.

01:34:24.543 --> 01:34:30.243
I was like, how on earth is he going to
light a fire out of sort of effectively

01:34:30.243 --> 01:34:33.963
Fein boss Heather, that he's just pulling
outta the ground and, and yet he did.

01:34:34.053 --> 01:34:35.873
And yeah, it made the difference.

01:34:36.233 --> 01:34:39.473
What did the, what happened to the horses
in that, in that situation you would

01:34:39.473 --> 01:34:43.613
lift the people out, the horses just
turn their backs to the wind and survive?

01:34:44.103 --> 01:34:46.263
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, pretty
much I was very stressed out

01:34:46.263 --> 01:34:47.943
about how the horses were doing.

01:34:47.943 --> 01:34:48.033
Mm-hmm.

01:34:48.083 --> 01:34:50.933
Luckily I was not one of the
people getting hypothermia.

01:34:50.933 --> 01:34:52.643
I was very cold and thought I might die.

01:34:52.643 --> 01:34:56.363
But I was, I had the wherewithal
to be able to check on horses.

01:34:56.393 --> 01:34:59.483
We actually ended up leaving the
saddles on a lot of the horses 'cause

01:34:59.483 --> 01:35:01.523
it was an extra insulation and warmth

01:35:02.033 --> 01:35:02.393
Rupert Isaacson: and

01:35:02.393 --> 01:35:05.123
Stevie Delahunt: we just brought them to
an area that was more sheltered by trees.

01:35:05.303 --> 01:35:09.753
And we ended up not tying most of them up
because I wanted them to be able to graze.

01:35:09.753 --> 01:35:11.403
And I was like, well, if
we lose the horses in this

01:35:11.403 --> 01:35:12.903
situation, it's probably okay.

01:35:12.903 --> 01:35:12.963
Yeah.

01:35:13.413 --> 01:35:16.683
Like they, they need to fend for
themselves, but they all stuck around.

01:35:16.713 --> 01:35:19.053
They weren't familiar with that
area, so they knew they should

01:35:19.053 --> 01:35:21.723
stay by their humans, but that way
they can move around and graze.

01:35:21.783 --> 01:35:24.453
And they, honestly, quite a
few of them, middle of the snow

01:35:24.453 --> 01:35:25.923
storm are just out there grazing.

01:35:26.313 --> 01:35:27.243
No, no big deal.

01:35:27.393 --> 01:35:27.573
Yeah, no,

01:35:27.573 --> 01:35:28.173
Rupert Isaacson: absolutely.

01:35:28.173 --> 01:35:28.893
It's, it's amazing.

01:35:28.893 --> 01:35:31.708
Our horses, their environment, they
used to, they're like, yeah, snow me.

01:35:32.268 --> 01:35:32.478
Yeah.

01:35:32.538 --> 01:35:33.318
Tornado me.

01:35:33.468 --> 01:35:33.798
Yeah.

01:35:34.488 --> 01:35:34.698
Yeah,

01:35:34.698 --> 01:35:35.088
Stevie Delahunt: exactly.

01:35:35.718 --> 01:35:36.648
Rupert Isaacson: They're so tough.

01:35:37.978 --> 01:35:40.948
And it's funny, you, you were talking
about the hypothermia there and the winds.

01:35:40.948 --> 01:35:44.058
I, I remember reading about and I
was trying to remember what their

01:35:44.058 --> 01:35:50.258
name was, the indigenous people down
in Patagonia, who used to travel by

01:35:50.258 --> 01:35:53.598
canoe with fires in their canoes.

01:35:54.648 --> 01:35:59.758
And that this was written about by
British sailors that got shipwrecked

01:35:59.878 --> 01:36:03.178
down there in the 18th century
and got rescued by these people.

01:36:03.718 --> 01:36:08.638
The Yagan people constantly had a fire
stoked to keep themselves warm, even

01:36:08.908 --> 01:36:13.648
chance, the demise of their transportation
by starting them within their bark canoes,

01:36:13.918 --> 01:36:18.238
and that they would travel this incredible
human technology in a place like that.

01:36:18.358 --> 01:36:22.138
And then of course, they all died
of smallpox and, you know, after wee

01:36:22.138 --> 01:36:24.838
Whitey showed up and colonized it all in

01:36:25.228 --> 01:36:27.628
Stevie Delahunt: the, there's actually
quite a lot of paintings still on

01:36:27.628 --> 01:36:29.668
rocks out there from the Chen people.

01:36:29.673 --> 01:36:29.973
Mm-hmm.

01:36:30.038 --> 01:36:31.778
In the area that we run the race.

01:36:31.778 --> 01:36:34.118
And that's really, really cool to see.

01:36:34.118 --> 01:36:38.928
And I believe Chen's actually, so
you said the yen, was that the, the,

01:36:38.928 --> 01:36:39.318
Rupert Isaacson: yes.

01:36:39.318 --> 01:36:42.078
I, I believe here I'm reading it Yagan.

01:36:42.078 --> 01:36:42.918
Stevie Delahunt: Mm-hmm.

01:36:42.924 --> 01:36:46.619
Rupert Isaacson: But can you, can
you, spell TWE t Welcher, did you say?

01:36:47.784 --> 01:36:52.979
Stevie Delahunt: I can, I I've only
said it conversationally in Patagonia,

01:36:52.979 --> 01:36:56.799
but the, to Welchs there's still
a lineage of, to Welch and people

01:36:57.309 --> 01:36:59.259
that live amongst everyone else.

01:36:59.259 --> 01:37:01.209
I mean, they're integrated
into the culture.

01:37:01.579 --> 01:37:04.069
But they weren't, they weren't eradicated.

01:37:04.519 --> 01:37:06.559
Rupert Isaacson: And are
they, oh, here we go.

01:37:06.629 --> 01:37:07.139
I've got it.

01:37:07.139 --> 01:37:14.459
It's T-E-H-U-E-L-C-H-E, te Welche people.

01:37:15.269 --> 01:37:15.929
Patagonia.

01:37:15.929 --> 01:37:16.229
Here we go.

01:37:16.559 --> 01:37:20.069
And are they involved in, in
any way in the, in the Derby?

01:37:21.419 --> 01:37:24.419
Stevie Delahunt: To my knowledge they're
not, but I think a lot of people that

01:37:24.419 --> 01:37:28.799
work with us on the race down there
probably have some percentage bloodline

01:37:28.799 --> 01:37:30.779
back to the native people there.

01:37:32.369 --> 01:37:34.169
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it fascinating.

01:37:34.169 --> 01:37:36.239
It would be, it would be
interesting to find out.

01:37:36.239 --> 01:37:37.559
I, I think you're probably dead right?

01:37:38.039 --> 01:37:43.859
It would be almost unthinkable that there
wouldn't be, you know, indigenous yeah.

01:37:43.859 --> 01:37:43.860
Yeah.

01:37:44.519 --> 01:37:47.399
Stevie Delahunt: You can see that in a
lot of people's facial structure down

01:37:47.399 --> 01:37:49.709
there in the color of their skin and hair.

01:37:50.279 --> 01:37:52.619
Rupert Isaacson: And there must be a
relationship with the land in that case.

01:37:52.619 --> 01:37:57.179
So have you, have you, again, are there
certain individuals that sort of stand out

01:37:57.179 --> 01:37:58.499
in the years that you've been doing this?

01:37:58.499 --> 01:38:01.709
It's this old guy or
this old lady who's just.

01:38:02.429 --> 01:38:05.609
Knows this about the plants and
knows this about the mountain.

01:38:06.149 --> 01:38:08.429
Stevie Delahunt: You know, actually,
because it's such a harsh environment

01:38:08.429 --> 01:38:11.939
down there, everyone that lives down
there is still connected to the land.

01:38:11.944 --> 01:38:12.154
Mm-hmm.

01:38:12.234 --> 01:38:15.129
And something I think is really
cool I've talked about with people

01:38:15.129 --> 01:38:19.419
there is that I've noticed in really
harsh environments, the land gives

01:38:19.419 --> 01:38:21.189
back during summer in a bigger way.

01:38:21.189 --> 01:38:25.239
And what I mean by that is if it's
hard to exist in a climate, you'll

01:38:25.239 --> 01:38:29.439
see that there's a lot, lot more of
the berries and fruits are edible.

01:38:29.799 --> 01:38:30.009
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:38:30.089 --> 01:38:31.499
Stevie Delahunt: And
that's the case down there.

01:38:31.499 --> 01:38:34.169
There's something called the el
califate berry, and it's a plant

01:38:34.169 --> 01:38:36.689
that it looks a lot like something
that would be in the fine Bos.

01:38:37.139 --> 01:38:40.019
And that, that produces
lots of berries every year.

01:38:40.049 --> 01:38:44.209
And there's another thing that's
colloquially called like horse apples,

01:38:44.209 --> 01:38:47.509
but it's like these tiny little berries
that are grow along the ground and

01:38:47.509 --> 01:38:48.889
the horses actually eat them as well.

01:38:49.349 --> 01:38:56.099
But it's much like a LinkedIn berry and
the entire pompas are covered with those.

01:38:56.699 --> 01:39:00.479
And I just noticed that the land gives
back in such a big way in Patagonia

01:39:00.479 --> 01:39:02.249
because it has such tough winters.

01:39:02.709 --> 01:39:06.039
And I've noticed that living in
environments where it snows, there's

01:39:06.039 --> 01:39:08.709
often, often things are much more edible.

01:39:08.709 --> 01:39:13.719
Whereas if it's a warm environment, you
may not get as much back from the land.

01:39:13.929 --> 01:39:16.989
And that's, that's kind of talked
about in the culture there.

01:39:16.989 --> 01:39:19.689
Like the land wants you to coexist.

01:39:19.689 --> 01:39:21.999
It's trying to help you make
it through the winter by giving

01:39:21.999 --> 01:39:23.109
you so much in the summer.

01:39:23.109 --> 01:39:23.169
I.

01:39:24.144 --> 01:39:26.274
Rupert Isaacson: Well that's an
interesting, it's it that raises an

01:39:26.274 --> 01:39:28.524
interesting thing, which is that sort
of nature is actually always trying to

01:39:28.524 --> 01:39:30.954
help one rather than hinder one, right?

01:39:30.954 --> 01:39:31.104
Yeah.

01:39:31.104 --> 01:39:35.184
Nature's actually always on one
side and that point, I think about

01:39:36.084 --> 01:39:37.874
places that have brutal winters.

01:39:38.084 --> 01:39:39.524
I think it's true in deserts too.

01:39:39.524 --> 01:39:45.864
So desert edible plants often are much
more nutrient dense, so you can eat much

01:39:45.864 --> 01:39:49.854
less of them, but get more nutrients
from them than in say, absolutely

01:39:50.184 --> 01:39:54.864
Europe or Germany or Eastern USA, where
it's sort of more temperate climate.

01:39:55.434 --> 01:40:00.944
This business of the nature's actually
always on one side except on the few

01:40:00.944 --> 01:40:02.714
occasions when it decides to cull one off.

01:40:03.284 --> 01:40:08.504
Your journeys with psilocybin
have you ha has this come

01:40:08.504 --> 01:40:11.474
forward from the land to you?

01:40:12.704 --> 01:40:15.434
Are there conversations with the
land, not just with the horses?

01:40:15.939 --> 01:40:16.159
Stevie Delahunt: Yes.

01:40:17.114 --> 01:40:18.069
Yes, there absolutely are.

01:40:18.069 --> 01:40:18.469
Tell about

01:40:18.469 --> 01:40:18.629
Rupert Isaacson: that.

01:40:19.939 --> 01:40:23.534
Stevie Delahunt: I've actually been
addressed by this kind of self called the

01:40:23.534 --> 01:40:28.774
tree nation and the trees on our property
back at home where I did a psilocybin

01:40:28.774 --> 01:40:33.004
journey kept telling me disharmony,
I kept getting the word disharmony,

01:40:33.004 --> 01:40:36.694
disharmony, disharmony and the land was.

01:40:37.054 --> 01:40:41.464
Complaining about the management that
we had of horses on the, on the land.

01:40:41.494 --> 01:40:45.094
Because okay, our large juniper
trees were all getting chewed

01:40:45.094 --> 01:40:46.204
by the horses in winter.

01:40:47.224 --> 01:40:52.324
And I kind of had to connect with
the trees in this experience.

01:40:52.354 --> 01:40:55.804
And it was, it's sort of wild and
I still kind of question it, but

01:40:55.804 --> 01:41:00.214
it felt really real in the moment
of having this recognition that

01:41:00.454 --> 01:41:02.614
these trees are these whole beings.

01:41:02.684 --> 01:41:05.714
But it felt almost like the wisdom
that you might feel when you're

01:41:05.714 --> 01:41:10.574
around elephants, like these large
creatures that just looked down over

01:41:11.234 --> 01:41:12.524
everything going on around them.

01:41:12.524 --> 01:41:15.584
And I had this moment of realization
that that's like this trees

01:41:15.584 --> 01:41:20.424
experience and how connected the
tree was to the land around them.

01:41:20.514 --> 01:41:23.484
And I felt like I was being addressed
by the trees and they were telling

01:41:23.484 --> 01:41:25.284
me to manage the horses better.

01:41:25.494 --> 01:41:29.604
It was my fault for keeping them again
against sonic's wishes, confined in an

01:41:29.604 --> 01:41:33.784
area and that they were chewing on the
trees, which was causing disharmony.

01:41:33.904 --> 01:41:41.554
And so in that trip I was feeling that
I needed to do a better job of speaking

01:41:41.554 --> 01:41:45.394
with the horses about what they wanted
and about the land with what it wanted.

01:41:45.994 --> 01:41:50.894
And it was showing me as well that we have
like these thorn plants that grow like the

01:41:51.194 --> 01:41:54.274
classic purple thorn plants that come up.

01:41:54.274 --> 01:41:57.904
And it was saying, if you see
more of these, you know that

01:41:57.904 --> 01:41:59.464
this area is being overgrazed.

01:41:59.464 --> 01:41:59.524
I.

01:42:00.319 --> 01:42:02.719
And, and I've like, so
this is the land saying it

01:42:02.719 --> 01:42:02.839
Rupert Isaacson: to you?

01:42:02.944 --> 01:42:04.249
Or this is research that you did?

01:42:04.709 --> 01:42:06.419
Stevie Delahunt: This is the
land said it to me first, and

01:42:06.419 --> 01:42:07.829
then I researched afterwards.

01:42:08.249 --> 01:42:08.579
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:42:08.699 --> 01:42:12.439
Stevie Delahunt: And it's kind of, it kind
of is a really interesting observation.

01:42:12.439 --> 01:42:17.869
People have said like, as the land
where there's more prickly plants, it's

01:42:17.869 --> 01:42:21.949
kind of the land protecting itself and
showing that there's been overgrazing

01:42:22.519 --> 01:42:23.809
which I found to be interesting.

01:42:23.809 --> 01:42:28.159
And it, it was true like in the pastures
that we had the horses in most often

01:42:28.519 --> 01:42:29.899
that's where they were coming up.

01:42:30.099 --> 01:42:30.914
And so I So what did

01:42:30.914 --> 01:42:31.074
Rupert Isaacson: you do?

01:42:31.074 --> 01:42:32.114
Did you, did you make a change?

01:42:33.164 --> 01:42:34.479
Stevie Delahunt: I did
make a change, yeah.

01:42:34.599 --> 01:42:38.889
I started, I actually just shut the
horses out of the one pasture where the

01:42:38.889 --> 01:42:42.579
trees were that they had been chewing
on, but like opening up more pasture land

01:42:42.609 --> 01:42:45.639
trying to manage where they were better.

01:42:45.719 --> 01:42:50.699
We reseeded some of the areas, some
of the pastures and have slowly

01:42:50.699 --> 01:42:56.759
like tried to, to manage our land
better and just use more of it.

01:42:57.779 --> 01:43:00.089
Rupert Isaacson: Have the
trees given you a thumbs up?

01:43:01.834 --> 01:43:04.979
Stevie Delahunt: I, I haven't
specifically gotten a thumbs up.

01:43:04.979 --> 01:43:07.229
It wasn't as clear as the
thumbs down that I got.

01:43:08.699 --> 01:43:11.639
Rupert Isaacson: Have you gone back and
asked and said, okay, lads, I did it.

01:43:12.059 --> 01:43:12.749
Is this good?

01:43:12.749 --> 01:43:13.679
Or do I need to do more?

01:43:14.279 --> 01:43:17.129
Stevie Delahunt: I, I still feel
like that I have to do more.

01:43:17.249 --> 01:43:17.279
Okay.

01:43:17.279 --> 01:43:19.679
Like, I don't feel like we're
where we're at, so I've been

01:43:19.679 --> 01:43:21.419
afraid to ask, to be honest.

01:43:23.219 --> 01:43:23.639
Rupert Isaacson: So

01:43:25.649 --> 01:43:27.479
with the feeling that you
have that you would do more.

01:43:27.659 --> 01:43:29.309
So what, what are your plans?

01:43:29.309 --> 01:43:35.199
I'm actually intrigued by this because
land management and the symbiosis of

01:43:35.199 --> 01:43:39.489
humans with the land, of course, is
exactly how we're supposed to live.

01:43:39.579 --> 01:43:48.429
And when it's good, I think we all
feel this in intrinsic sense of ease.

01:43:49.719 --> 01:43:51.969
And when it's not good, we sure don't.

01:43:52.299 --> 01:43:58.359
So if it's still niggling under your
skin, like yeah, but I still haven't

01:43:58.359 --> 01:44:00.039
quite, you know, done what they like.

01:44:00.309 --> 01:44:02.949
Have you, are you putting
together a strategy based upon

01:44:03.459 --> 01:44:04.569
what the land has told you?

01:44:05.619 --> 01:44:06.459
Stevie Delahunt: I am, yeah.

01:44:06.459 --> 01:44:10.389
I'm, I'm actually like, I feel like
it's a really cool metaphor for how to

01:44:10.389 --> 01:44:12.639
deal with coming together as society.

01:44:12.699 --> 01:44:17.739
And what I mean by that is it is really
strange as Sonic the horse is pointing

01:44:17.739 --> 01:44:19.779
out by wanting to be free roaming.

01:44:20.289 --> 01:44:23.259
I, I've always thought it's
weird to own property, right?

01:44:23.259 --> 01:44:27.429
Like we're all part of, I understand
why it has to happen in the society we

01:44:27.429 --> 01:44:32.199
live in now, like why we have to put
up these arbitrary boundaries, but.

01:44:33.009 --> 01:44:38.409
It is interesting, like how do you
fit what should be into the world

01:44:38.619 --> 01:44:40.029
and structure that we live in?

01:44:40.119 --> 01:44:44.049
And land management is a
little bit of metaphor for how

01:44:44.049 --> 01:44:45.339
to come together in society.

01:44:45.339 --> 01:44:47.259
Like there's so many
benefits of coming together.

01:44:47.929 --> 01:44:49.009
But there's so many negatives.

01:44:49.009 --> 01:44:54.079
And for example, being confined to
one space with your herd is not really

01:44:54.079 --> 01:44:56.239
what, how we were meant to naturally be.

01:44:56.239 --> 01:44:59.749
We were meant to be like Mongolia where
we can travel around and if there's

01:44:59.749 --> 01:45:03.949
overgrazing, well, there really isn't
overgrazing because the horses move on.

01:45:04.339 --> 01:45:08.509
Or if a place does get overgrazed, a horse
would die and there would be less horses

01:45:08.509 --> 01:45:10.519
and then the, the grass could grow again.

01:45:10.519 --> 01:45:15.349
And there'd always be that, that
natural seeking of homeostasis.

01:45:16.129 --> 01:45:23.629
And now there's so many artificial
boundaries and separations that it

01:45:23.629 --> 01:45:25.309
makes land management difficult.

01:45:25.339 --> 01:45:29.269
And I, I am still researching,
trying to figure out how to

01:45:29.269 --> 01:45:30.709
manage horses better over land.

01:45:30.709 --> 01:45:35.689
And, and to be clear, we have eight horses
now, nine on the property that we're on,

01:45:35.689 --> 01:45:37.609
and it's 25 acres and it's irrigated.

01:45:37.609 --> 01:45:40.759
So there's quite a lot of space
and a lot of grass for them.

01:45:41.149 --> 01:45:44.569
And I still, and that's like much
more than most anyone would have.

01:45:44.709 --> 01:45:48.639
And I still feel like I'm ha I'm
not able to manage that well.

01:45:49.299 --> 01:45:51.549
Rupert Isaacson: It seems that you
actually answered your own question

01:45:51.669 --> 01:45:57.279
within what you just told me, but I'm
wondering if you can decipher that answer.

01:45:58.509 --> 01:45:59.799
Stevie Delahunt: Probably, probably not.

01:46:00.009 --> 01:46:03.669
I was gonna say, I feel today
in this conversation, so I've

01:46:03.729 --> 01:46:06.119
just been at a wedding I'm at
my friend's wedding now, Uhhuh.

01:46:06.359 --> 01:46:08.069
We're up until 4:00 AM this morning.

01:46:08.909 --> 01:46:10.499
I was like, great, I have this podcast.

01:46:10.499 --> 01:46:11.699
Wait, mushroom be articulate.

01:46:12.729 --> 01:46:14.289
So I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to

01:46:14.859 --> 01:46:17.709
Rupert Isaacson: Well, what what
strikes me from what you just said

01:46:17.709 --> 01:46:22.919
is you were saying in a perfect world
you would move on and the herd would

01:46:22.919 --> 01:46:30.299
move on when the land began to be
stressed by the carrying of the herd.

01:46:32.249 --> 01:46:34.049
So why not be nomadic with your herd?

01:46:36.149 --> 01:46:37.109
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, I'm not sure.

01:46:37.109 --> 01:46:40.679
I guess I don't know how to make
that happen in the US easily.

01:46:40.679 --> 01:46:40.919
Trailers

01:46:41.639 --> 01:46:43.319
Rupert Isaacson: and other
properties, I should imagine.

01:46:44.069 --> 01:46:45.539
Stevie Delahunt: I don't
have that kind of money.

01:46:46.229 --> 01:46:51.599
Rupert Isaacson: No, but you are connected
to community and there's BLM land out

01:46:51.599 --> 01:46:56.059
there in the west, and do you think it
this might be an interesting project.

01:46:57.019 --> 01:47:02.299
Do you think it might be possible
to live, and you talk about

01:47:02.299 --> 01:47:04.099
community, human community, right?

01:47:04.129 --> 01:47:04.309
Yeah.

01:47:04.309 --> 01:47:08.269
So you have friends, you know, all
over the US and they have properties

01:47:08.269 --> 01:47:11.479
and pastures and some of them are
in use and some of them are not.

01:47:12.149 --> 01:47:15.899
And you can, in the old days,
one would've, you know, ridden

01:47:15.899 --> 01:47:18.429
one's horses and herded the rest.

01:47:19.329 --> 01:47:20.739
But probably a shorter distance.

01:47:21.139 --> 01:47:24.949
But perhaps the same number of hours
that it would take to go that shorter

01:47:24.949 --> 01:47:32.869
distance in your local area you could
do with a trailer somewhere else.

01:47:32.899 --> 01:47:33.139
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

01:47:33.799 --> 01:47:34.159
Yeah.

01:47:34.159 --> 01:47:35.179
I mean actually that, is that a

01:47:35.179 --> 01:47:35.900
Rupert Isaacson: potential, you know,

01:47:36.829 --> 01:47:38.419
Stevie Delahunt: that is
actually what we're looking into.

01:47:38.419 --> 01:47:41.179
So to be clear, in summer we
have actually too much grass.

01:47:41.179 --> 01:47:41.269
Mm-hmm.

01:47:41.509 --> 01:47:44.979
Some of our horses even with
endurance racing, a couple of our

01:47:44.979 --> 01:47:47.199
horses are almost obese, right?

01:47:47.199 --> 01:47:49.269
And so managing them is really difficult.

01:47:49.269 --> 01:47:52.669
And this is, this problem's arising
over winter when they're like

01:47:52.699 --> 01:47:54.499
overgrazing what's left on the ground.

01:47:55.069 --> 01:47:58.869
And so we have actually talked about,
we live in a bus so we rent this

01:47:58.869 --> 01:48:03.299
beautiful property from an amazing
landlord who lets us be there.

01:48:04.124 --> 01:48:07.494
And we live in a bus so we
could be totally mobile.

01:48:07.494 --> 01:48:08.694
And we've actually talked about this.

01:48:08.699 --> 01:48:11.934
We, we wanna go south for the
winter for the horse's sake.

01:48:12.304 --> 01:48:14.974
They don't enjoy being in the
snow and neither do I really.

01:48:15.179 --> 01:48:15.599
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:48:15.704 --> 01:48:17.054
Stevie Delahunt: So we
have looked into that.

01:48:17.114 --> 01:48:22.124
And you know, actually the Bend
Oregon communities really wonderful

01:48:22.124 --> 01:48:25.814
and we've often had people reach out
knowing that we have lots of horses and

01:48:26.024 --> 01:48:27.824
said, Hey, I have this extra pasture.

01:48:27.884 --> 01:48:28.964
Do you need any grass?

01:48:29.144 --> 01:48:29.774
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, that's wonderful.

01:48:30.224 --> 01:48:30.524
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

01:48:30.524 --> 01:48:32.444
So there is that in the community there.

01:48:32.624 --> 01:48:33.794
Rupert Isaacson: That's
almost un-American.

01:48:34.364 --> 01:48:35.654
Stevie Delahunt: It's very, yeah.

01:48:35.834 --> 01:48:36.794
No, it's amazing.

01:48:36.794 --> 01:48:38.534
We have bend organs truly Great.

01:48:40.154 --> 01:48:43.994
Rupert Isaacson: I guess, you know
what, what I'm feeling for here is

01:48:45.194 --> 01:48:50.474
people often say, or one read sometimes
that humans are naturally nomadic.

01:48:51.074 --> 01:48:54.404
And I think it's true.

01:48:55.314 --> 01:48:59.814
I think many mammals are including
mammals that have fixed territories.

01:48:59.874 --> 01:49:03.504
And we are mammals actually
with fixed territories.

01:49:03.504 --> 01:49:08.784
Humans tend to move in a sort of a square

01:49:11.034 --> 01:49:11.904
with each season.

01:49:11.934 --> 01:49:15.774
So each equinox is, while there's
rain over there, things are growing

01:49:15.774 --> 01:49:21.894
over there, and then yeah, dries
up and then you go up there and now

01:49:21.894 --> 01:49:25.494
things are good in the foothills,
and then you go up to the higher

01:49:25.494 --> 01:49:28.374
mountains and things are good up there.

01:49:28.899 --> 01:49:31.209
For those summer months and
then, oops, getting cold.

01:49:31.209 --> 01:49:35.679
So then you go back down and
there's your autumn camp, and

01:49:35.679 --> 01:49:38.589
then there's your winter camp, and
then you begin the process again.

01:49:39.009 --> 01:49:44.139
And this, whether that is over a
geographically smallish area because it's

01:49:44.139 --> 01:49:50.409
nutrient dense or whether that's over a
bigger area 'cause it's not we and other

01:49:50.409 --> 01:49:52.659
animals seem to naturally want to do that.

01:49:52.899 --> 01:49:57.669
And yeah, if we can't do that and
we don't do that, I do actually

01:49:57.669 --> 01:49:59.079
believe our mental health suffers.

01:49:59.079 --> 01:50:02.559
And I, I remember getting the feeling
sometimes when I was living in Texas,

01:50:02.559 --> 01:50:07.929
you know, it's just so ridiculously
hot in the summer, like crazy hot.

01:50:08.189 --> 01:50:08.489
Yeah.

01:50:08.639 --> 01:50:11.669
You know, for months and months and
months and months and months and you're

01:50:11.669 --> 01:50:15.239
working outside, you know, with the
horses and thinking, I don't think

01:50:15.239 --> 01:50:17.549
that the indigenous people did this.

01:50:17.549 --> 01:50:20.819
I think they buggered off
when it got like this.

01:50:21.119 --> 01:50:22.259
And absolutely.

01:50:22.799 --> 01:50:23.459
Sure enough, yeah.

01:50:23.459 --> 01:50:24.989
I started, you know, researching it.

01:50:24.989 --> 01:50:25.529
Yes.

01:50:25.589 --> 01:50:29.519
The bison would come all the way
down to the coast and then they

01:50:29.519 --> 01:50:33.449
would go north as it got hotter
and you would kind of follow them.

01:50:33.629 --> 01:50:37.049
You might not follow them to Alaska, but
you'd certainly follow them a certain

01:50:37.049 --> 01:50:42.459
distance to higher elevations and, you
know, and that would make perfect sense.

01:50:42.699 --> 01:50:47.559
And now we don't, now we stick
around loneliness, depression,

01:50:47.559 --> 01:50:48.819
boredom, where we began.

01:50:49.449 --> 01:50:50.559
You know, you

01:50:50.559 --> 01:50:52.479
Stevie Delahunt: Well, we stick
around if we feel we have to.

01:50:52.479 --> 01:50:52.719
Right.

01:50:52.719 --> 01:50:55.899
Look at all the people that feel that
they have that financial freedom.

01:50:56.199 --> 01:50:58.359
Snowbirds almost everywhere, right?

01:50:58.359 --> 01:50:58.629
Like they

01:50:58.629 --> 01:50:59.169
Rupert Isaacson: migrate.

01:50:59.319 --> 01:50:59.769
Absolutely.

01:51:00.369 --> 01:51:00.429
Yeah.

01:51:00.429 --> 01:51:00.999
Absolutely.

01:51:00.999 --> 01:51:03.159
First thing that people do when
they get a lot of money, they

01:51:03.159 --> 01:51:04.569
buy houses in different places.

01:51:05.109 --> 01:51:05.379
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

01:51:05.649 --> 01:51:07.539
Rupert Isaacson: And they sort of
seasonally migrate between them.

01:51:07.539 --> 01:51:07.809
Absolutely.

01:51:08.079 --> 01:51:11.079
They basically just go back to being
a hunter gatherer just on a yacht.

01:51:11.079 --> 01:51:11.289
Yeah.

01:51:12.339 --> 01:51:12.669
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

01:51:12.939 --> 01:51:14.469
No, that's absolutely true.

01:51:14.469 --> 01:51:17.559
And you know, my husband and I have
talked a lot about our mental health

01:51:17.559 --> 01:51:20.739
suffering in winter and we're both,
we both feel like we wanna go back

01:51:20.739 --> 01:51:23.769
to South Africa in the winter and
that's exactly what we did this year.

01:51:23.769 --> 01:51:25.989
I went down to Argentina
for part of this winter.

01:51:26.449 --> 01:51:28.249
But we wanna include our horses in that.

01:51:28.249 --> 01:51:32.689
So our eventual move is the idea
to be in Bend in the summer and

01:51:32.689 --> 01:51:34.369
down south somewhere in winter.

01:51:34.429 --> 01:51:38.429
'cause I think have you read the
book, the Comfort Crisis by Chance?

01:51:38.444 --> 01:51:38.564
I

01:51:38.564 --> 01:51:39.569
Rupert Isaacson: have not,
but I have heard of it.

01:51:39.569 --> 01:51:40.529
But talk to us about it.

01:51:41.039 --> 01:51:43.829
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, that's a
fantastic book and it talks a lot about

01:51:43.829 --> 01:51:48.219
like the origin of humans and happy,
basically the pursuit of happiness

01:51:48.759 --> 01:51:53.319
by going back to our roots and it
talks in there about like how we are

01:51:53.319 --> 01:51:55.689
built to be a slow endurance animal.

01:51:56.259 --> 01:52:00.459
And when I was reading that, I really
made the connection with horses.

01:52:00.459 --> 01:52:03.599
It's really interesting that
humans and horses have the.

01:52:04.004 --> 01:52:05.414
Advantage of sweating.

01:52:06.084 --> 01:52:09.564
This sounds crazy and I I was very aware
of it when I was riding a reindeer.

01:52:09.564 --> 01:52:13.614
So reindeer pant, dogs pant like
almo, a lot of animals cool themselves

01:52:13.614 --> 01:52:15.384
by panting, which is very limiting.

01:52:15.804 --> 01:52:19.364
You can't you can only exert
yourself for short periods of time.

01:52:19.844 --> 01:52:22.994
Like a, even dogs, like, there's some
dogs that are really great at running

01:52:22.994 --> 01:52:26.954
distances, but you'll notice that like on
hot days, like I have a Belgian Malis and

01:52:26.954 --> 01:52:32.234
she is super athletic, but she struggles
in the heat because she pants to cool off.

01:52:32.264 --> 01:52:32.294
Mm.

01:52:32.954 --> 01:52:36.524
Now horses can do things like Tevis
which is a big a hundred mile endurance

01:52:36.524 --> 01:52:40.004
race, and it can get as hot as
120 degrees of parts of the races,

01:52:40.424 --> 01:52:42.044
parts of the race in the canyons.

01:52:42.704 --> 01:52:44.174
And the horses can endure that.

01:52:44.324 --> 01:52:46.874
So humans and horses have
this advantage of sweating.

01:52:47.384 --> 01:52:50.234
And in the book it's talk, it
talks a lot about how humans

01:52:50.234 --> 01:52:53.214
can sweat and travel over time.

01:52:54.084 --> 01:52:58.884
It talks briefly about horses being
connected to humans over time and this

01:52:58.884 --> 01:53:00.654
endurance connection that we have.

01:53:01.554 --> 01:53:05.034
And now I've just lost
my, or was going with

01:53:05.034 --> 01:53:05.154
Rupert Isaacson: this.

01:53:06.609 --> 01:53:08.514
Stevie Delahunt: Well, I
think it's, it's an interest.

01:53:08.514 --> 01:53:08.904
Oh.

01:53:09.144 --> 01:53:09.744
Think about the comfort

01:53:09.744 --> 01:53:10.314
Rupert Isaacson: crisis.

01:53:10.464 --> 01:53:10.704
Yeah.

01:53:10.704 --> 01:53:11.304
Stevie Delahunt: Yes.

01:53:12.534 --> 01:53:17.294
I think that it's just an interesting
realization that we were meant to travel

01:53:17.294 --> 01:53:20.474
together and it's cool that these two
species, horses and humans have found

01:53:20.474 --> 01:53:25.614
each other over time, and that we are
the two species meant for endurance.

01:53:25.864 --> 01:53:29.914
Meant to, that can do many,
many miles over over many days.

01:53:30.454 --> 01:53:30.514
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:53:30.514 --> 01:53:30.874
Unlike

01:53:31.114 --> 01:53:32.344
Stevie Delahunt: most other species.

01:53:32.344 --> 01:53:35.974
And so I think we were meant to travel
together and, you know, horses and dogs

01:53:35.974 --> 01:53:41.224
have been domesticated for so long, and
look at how that integration happens.

01:53:41.264 --> 01:53:46.484
Like we've, we've domesticated each
other, like we've, horses are such an

01:53:46.484 --> 01:53:51.644
integral part of our history, and I, I
feel that we were meant to nomadically

01:53:51.644 --> 01:53:53.444
travel together, just like in Mongolia.

01:53:55.544 --> 01:53:56.354
Rupert Isaacson: I kind of agree.

01:53:56.584 --> 01:53:58.204
I'm about to do this myself.

01:53:58.204 --> 01:54:00.614
So, we, I'm in Germany.

01:54:00.884 --> 01:54:05.224
We keep our horses out all year,
and right now it's February as

01:54:05.224 --> 01:54:07.234
we are recording this, I am.

01:54:07.849 --> 01:54:13.579
Several times a day swimming through
Poo Lake and climbing Poo Mountain and

01:54:13.629 --> 01:54:16.149
hopping from poo ice flow to poo ice flow.

01:54:16.149 --> 01:54:16.239
Mm-hmm.

01:54:18.294 --> 01:54:19.421
And we were in, we weren't

01:54:19.844 --> 01:54:22.094
Stevie Delahunt: meant to live
like that Well, or in that

01:54:22.694 --> 01:54:26.954
Rupert Isaacson: we are cold adapted and
we're heat adapted, we're all adapted,

01:54:27.854 --> 01:54:33.494
and at the same time, if we can possibly
do what the birds do and fly south.

01:54:33.494 --> 01:54:37.364
I, I was watching the cranes flying
over the last couple of days.

01:54:38.324 --> 01:54:38.984
Climate change.

01:54:38.984 --> 01:54:39.794
They're coming earlier.

01:54:39.884 --> 01:54:41.265
They are coming earlier than they used to.

01:54:42.504 --> 01:54:46.404
This would normally have been more
winter than it's been the last few years.

01:54:46.944 --> 01:54:49.044
So they're coming earlier and
earlier, but nonetheless, they

01:54:49.044 --> 01:54:50.454
fly south and then they fly north.

01:54:51.204 --> 01:54:53.864
And so that's exactly what we're gonna do.

01:54:53.914 --> 01:54:56.644
The land mass of Europe extend south.

01:54:56.644 --> 01:55:01.694
So Spain, summer winter, Germany summer.

01:55:02.054 --> 01:55:02.624
Why not?

01:55:02.954 --> 01:55:06.164
Now someone might say, well,
you, how do you do that?

01:55:06.764 --> 01:55:12.164
If you have a job, if you have that
kind of stability, the only way you

01:55:12.164 --> 01:55:13.874
can do that is if you make it your job.

01:55:14.354 --> 01:55:19.244
And of course, to be a nomad, to be
a hunter gatherer, that is your job.

01:55:19.244 --> 01:55:19.994
That's the economy.

01:55:19.994 --> 01:55:20.054
Yeah.

01:55:20.714 --> 01:55:25.814
And if that's the economy that's,
indigenous to humanity, because we

01:55:25.814 --> 01:55:28.814
talk about indigenous people, but we're
actually all indigenous people because

01:55:28.814 --> 01:55:30.764
we're all indigenous to this planet.

01:55:31.214 --> 01:55:36.344
And you know, in terms of colonialization,
one can say, oh, well there were the

01:55:36.344 --> 01:55:42.104
indigenous people in this area that the
Europeans or whoever moved to, but the

01:55:42.104 --> 01:55:44.264
Europeans are still indigenous in Europe.

01:55:44.444 --> 01:55:47.444
And that never changed.

01:55:47.624 --> 01:55:48.944
So we're all indigenous.

01:55:49.154 --> 01:55:57.924
This semi nomadism, which sort of ended
with agriculture about 10,000 years

01:55:57.924 --> 01:56:02.514
ago, it seems that the four horsemen of
the apocalypse rode in right with that.

01:56:03.414 --> 01:56:06.564
And that engendered all kinds of
competition and overpopulation and so on.

01:56:06.984 --> 01:56:11.664
But to be nomadic means that you do
have to give up certain securities.

01:56:12.444 --> 01:56:14.964
Easier said than done,
particularly in our modern era.

01:56:15.114 --> 01:56:18.804
So when people say, well, I can't
do that, I absolutely believe them.

01:56:19.174 --> 01:56:20.734
And I I say, yeah, no, I get it.

01:56:20.734 --> 01:56:22.174
I get, I get that you can't.

01:56:23.104 --> 01:56:28.774
Nonetheless, would we be happier if
we did and I kind of think we would.

01:56:29.284 --> 01:56:35.014
So from my personal point of view, I
would trade certain luxuries for that.

01:56:36.034 --> 01:56:38.014
But then again, I'm
also like your husband.

01:56:38.064 --> 01:56:38.964
British, south African.

01:56:38.964 --> 01:56:43.464
So it's a little bit in the genetic, I
think, to kind of go to other places.

01:56:43.854 --> 01:56:43.914
Yeah.

01:56:44.064 --> 01:56:46.284
So it's, it's intriguing to me
that you're, you're gonna do that.

01:56:46.284 --> 01:56:47.874
Where, where down south are you gonna go?

01:56:47.874 --> 01:56:52.494
And, and what, what's
your, what's your plan?

01:56:53.854 --> 01:56:55.384
Stevie Delahunt: Just an aside,
as you were saying this, have

01:56:55.384 --> 01:56:56.614
you read the book, Ishmael?

01:56:56.939 --> 01:56:58.264
Rupert Isaacson: Yes, I have.

01:56:58.324 --> 01:56:58.716
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:56:59.104 --> 01:57:01.354
It reminded me of what
you were saying now.

01:57:01.864 --> 01:57:02.324
Rupert Isaacson: In what way?

01:57:02.324 --> 01:57:04.764
Yeah, just for, for, for
listeners who haven't read it.

01:57:04.764 --> 01:57:05.004
Yeah.

01:57:05.384 --> 01:57:05.604
Why

01:57:06.704 --> 01:57:10.964
Stevie Delahunt: Ishmael talks about
what Rupert was just saying talks about

01:57:10.964 --> 01:57:15.404
how the restoration of the planet is
probably going to come through a return

01:57:15.404 --> 01:57:20.084
to that indigenous idea of being more
connected to the earth and to the

01:57:20.084 --> 01:57:22.514
seasons as we're talking about cycling.

01:57:23.234 --> 01:57:25.184
And probably wanting less.

01:57:25.284 --> 01:57:30.434
So as you're talking about this
nomadic lifestyle, I think that

01:57:30.884 --> 01:57:34.754
capitalism has really instilled a
belief of scarcity or capitalized

01:57:34.754 --> 01:57:37.394
on our brains feeling of scarcity.

01:57:38.054 --> 01:57:43.424
And something I've learned to
start accepting is abundance,

01:57:43.514 --> 01:57:47.204
the law of abundance and
the, the belief in abundance.

01:57:47.414 --> 01:57:50.594
And it's really interesting that we
all think we're not gonna have enough

01:57:50.744 --> 01:57:54.074
probably coming from, stemming from
the idea that we're not enough, right?

01:57:54.074 --> 01:57:58.824
Like it's an internal journey
that's externalized, I find that

01:57:58.914 --> 01:58:02.664
if you're still alive at this point
and you are, if you're listening,

01:58:03.144 --> 01:58:04.764
then your life has been abundant.

01:58:04.824 --> 01:58:06.024
You have had enough

01:58:06.354 --> 01:58:06.924
Rupert Isaacson: sure to be

01:58:06.984 --> 01:58:07.614
Stevie Delahunt: alive.

01:58:08.074 --> 01:58:10.444
And abundance really
means just having enough.

01:58:10.544 --> 01:58:15.374
It doesn't mean having an excess
and excess comes from, which is

01:58:15.374 --> 01:58:16.754
kind of a hoarding situation.

01:58:16.754 --> 01:58:21.194
And I think almost anyone living in a,
in western society has way more than

01:58:21.194 --> 01:58:25.064
they need which is proof that if you have
way more than you need, then you have

01:58:25.064 --> 01:58:27.014
enough to share with many other people.

01:58:27.014 --> 01:58:31.714
So I think this world is really
abundant for everyone to exist.

01:58:32.404 --> 01:58:40.594
And I think letting go of this idea
of scarcity will help us to return

01:58:41.434 --> 01:58:43.294
to being our more natural selves.

01:58:43.504 --> 01:58:48.874
And, and that's where this nomadic
lifestyle, this letting go of these

01:58:49.624 --> 01:58:53.104
so-called or, or felt securities ends up.

01:58:54.139 --> 01:58:54.589
Grading.

01:58:55.999 --> 01:58:58.369
Sorry, I'm just saw your
video in the background.

01:58:58.514 --> 01:58:59.634
Rupert Isaacson: You got
my little sun coming?

01:58:59.904 --> 01:59:00.194
Yeah.

01:59:01.369 --> 01:59:02.209
That little blonde head.

01:59:02.269 --> 01:59:02.659
Stevie Delahunt: Woo.

01:59:02.744 --> 01:59:03.034
Yeah.

01:59:04.764 --> 01:59:05.269
Yeah, well he's,

01:59:05.274 --> 01:59:07.434
Rupert Isaacson: he's, he's busy
seeking abundance currently.

01:59:07.494 --> 01:59:07.734
Yeah.

01:59:07.739 --> 01:59:07.869
Yeah.

01:59:07.974 --> 01:59:09.084
Ah, yes.

01:59:10.284 --> 01:59:11.635
Stevie Delahunt: One of my
favorite activities as well.

01:59:13.044 --> 01:59:16.804
Yeah, I think if we let go
of this attachment to the, to

01:59:16.804 --> 01:59:20.854
scarcity or this attachment to
our overall, our suffering, right?

01:59:20.854 --> 01:59:23.344
Like we, we think we're not enough.

01:59:23.344 --> 01:59:24.484
We think we don't have enough.

01:59:24.904 --> 01:59:28.834
If we start to let go of that and just
trust in the universe and trust in the

01:59:28.834 --> 01:59:34.084
process and the journey we can do things
like be nomadic, be more connected, let go

01:59:34.084 --> 01:59:36.514
of all these extras that we do not need.

01:59:36.604 --> 01:59:41.854
And I think that will make a shift
in humanity if we can do that.

01:59:42.304 --> 01:59:42.754
And,

01:59:42.754 --> 01:59:44.734
Rupert Isaacson: but what is
tricky for that and what, what

01:59:44.734 --> 01:59:47.644
everyone would say is, I, I presume
you're not yet a parent, right?

01:59:48.034 --> 01:59:50.074
There was no still my little one there.

01:59:50.314 --> 01:59:55.384
So, you know, I think for many
people, quite justifiably, the

01:59:57.784 --> 02:00:00.214
argument to that is, well,
once you've got kids,

02:00:00.934 --> 02:00:01.294
Stevie Delahunt: yeah.

02:00:01.954 --> 02:00:03.604
Rupert Isaacson: But
interestingly, I never bought that.

02:00:04.384 --> 02:00:10.144
I got three kids and I always
thought, well, yes, it absolutely will

02:00:10.144 --> 02:00:12.094
affect the way in which you travel.

02:00:12.664 --> 02:00:13.294
I, yeah.

02:00:13.654 --> 02:00:16.714
You've got to travel
completely with them in mind.

02:00:16.714 --> 02:00:21.564
You cannot I tried for like five seconds
to travel with my own previous agendas

02:00:21.564 --> 02:00:24.234
in travel when I had my first kid.

02:00:24.594 --> 02:00:27.294
You know, your ask gets handed to you
and you're like, okay, yeah, absolutely.

02:00:27.294 --> 02:00:27.594
Got it.

02:00:27.654 --> 02:00:28.044
Yeah, yeah.

02:00:28.704 --> 02:00:30.624
It will be all about you got it?

02:00:30.654 --> 02:00:31.254
Yes.

02:00:31.944 --> 02:00:32.304
Yeah.

02:00:32.364 --> 02:00:35.154
But let's still go because of
course from, from a, from a child's

02:00:35.154 --> 02:00:37.204
perspective nomism is also natural.

02:00:37.204 --> 02:00:40.444
As long as you're with your people
and you're making camp every night

02:00:40.444 --> 02:00:45.334
with your people and your people
understand how to create abundance out

02:00:45.334 --> 02:00:48.574
of what's around, then you're okay.

02:00:49.084 --> 02:00:49.144
Yeah.

02:00:49.474 --> 02:00:50.584
It's about community, right?

02:00:50.944 --> 02:00:54.154
So then, but then we say, oh yeah, but
what about schools and what about a job?

02:00:54.484 --> 02:00:56.284
And now suddenly, as you say, it's back.

02:00:56.344 --> 02:00:59.944
Interesting what you talked about,
Ishmael, that that book, it seems that

02:01:00.274 --> 02:01:04.924
we may, are we maybe on the cusp of this
now that suddenly post Covid digital

02:01:04.924 --> 02:01:07.834
nomadism homeschooling online schooling.

02:01:08.284 --> 02:01:14.014
I just recently did a, a podcast with
an interesting, interesting lady called

02:01:14.044 --> 02:01:19.864
Lainey Liberty, who thought she was taking
a year off with her kid back in 2008.

02:01:20.644 --> 02:01:22.474
And they just kept going.

02:01:22.864 --> 02:01:24.724
And now he's all grown up.

02:01:24.724 --> 02:01:26.824
But they made a whole economy out of this.

02:01:26.974 --> 02:01:28.714
She gave up her business, gave up her.

02:01:30.004 --> 02:01:34.054
And invented basically a genre called
World Schooling, and now they're

02:01:34.054 --> 02:01:35.194
these world schooling conferences.

02:01:35.374 --> 02:01:37.264
So it, it is interesting.

02:01:37.269 --> 02:01:40.774
I, I think you're right that
actually one can do this, but it

02:01:40.774 --> 02:01:43.414
takes a paradigm shift internally.

02:01:43.984 --> 02:01:46.654
Maybe that's where your
psilocybin comes in.

02:01:47.524 --> 02:01:48.364
Does it help with that?

02:01:48.364 --> 02:01:49.354
Can it help with that?

02:01:50.314 --> 02:01:51.874
Stevie Delahunt: I, yeah, I think so.

02:01:51.874 --> 02:01:55.734
I feel I feel really connected to
what you're saying and having kids,

02:01:55.734 --> 02:01:59.154
because I teach a lot of kids and
I have some really amazing parents.

02:01:59.154 --> 02:02:04.754
And all these, like 80% of the
parents are homeschooling their kids

02:02:04.844 --> 02:02:07.194
that have their kids riding with me.

02:02:07.944 --> 02:02:11.664
And they're, they're rewriting the
way they wanna educate their kids.

02:02:11.664 --> 02:02:14.034
They want them connected
to nature in the outdoors.

02:02:14.034 --> 02:02:18.044
Like, there's an amazing family
that has five kids and they all

02:02:18.044 --> 02:02:19.424
are in riding lessons with me.

02:02:19.934 --> 02:02:24.494
And they come out twice a week
and they're involved in every

02:02:24.494 --> 02:02:26.234
aspect of caring for horses.

02:02:26.714 --> 02:02:30.614
And I just so admire how this family
is going about their education.

02:02:30.644 --> 02:02:34.304
And I think that they're a family
that if they could, they would

02:02:34.304 --> 02:02:36.284
also be nomadically traveling.

02:02:36.494 --> 02:02:40.604
And I think, I think I am seeing
a shift, especially in the

02:02:40.604 --> 02:02:41.864
culture around where I live.

02:02:41.864 --> 02:02:46.124
Like it's a very privileged
town to put it nicely.

02:02:46.124 --> 02:02:50.114
And so with those privileges,
people are looking for the

02:02:50.114 --> 02:02:52.334
healthiest way to live, and it is.

02:02:53.114 --> 02:02:54.854
Traveling, it is homeschooling.

02:02:55.244 --> 02:02:59.384
And with that homeschooling there is,
there is living in multiple places.

02:02:59.384 --> 02:03:02.384
Even this family of five, they
have a home in Hawaii, and they

02:03:02.384 --> 02:03:04.214
often travel there during winter.

02:03:04.724 --> 02:03:06.434
So they're also chasing the sunlight

02:03:06.694 --> 02:03:06.784
Rupert Isaacson: right

02:03:07.354 --> 02:03:08.254
Stevie Delahunt: around the world.

02:03:08.394 --> 02:03:14.484
And that this whole new idea of educating
kids in the world and traveling with

02:03:14.484 --> 02:03:16.504
kids in the world really calls to me.

02:03:16.504 --> 02:03:21.044
That's what I'm hoping to shift my
business into is connecting kids

02:03:21.044 --> 02:03:22.664
back to nature through horses.

02:03:22.744 --> 02:03:27.874
And I, you know, the book, the Line
Trackers Guide to Life, there's a sentence

02:03:28.114 --> 02:03:29.579
in there that's Boyd Verdi's book.

02:03:29.579 --> 02:03:29.860
Rupert Isaacson: Boyd Vati.

02:03:29.860 --> 02:03:29.861
Yeah.

02:03:30.484 --> 02:03:31.579
I was wondering if it was him.

02:03:31.594 --> 02:03:31.804
Yeah.

02:03:32.344 --> 02:03:35.194
Stevie Delahunt: He has a single
sentence in there that just

02:03:35.194 --> 02:03:36.514
resonated so deeply with me.

02:03:36.544 --> 02:03:41.044
And it was a, the restoration of
the planet will only come through a

02:03:41.044 --> 02:03:43.264
profound shift in human consciousness.

02:03:43.624 --> 02:03:50.584
And I think that this environmental
concern that I have deep down I is a

02:03:50.584 --> 02:03:56.314
realization that you have to change
what's in here to change what's out there.

02:03:56.374 --> 02:03:58.834
And I've just pointed to my
heart and then put my hand out.

02:03:58.834 --> 02:04:02.944
So like, you have to change your
insides to change the outsides.

02:04:02.944 --> 02:04:06.784
And I think in working with
kids and connecting them back to

02:04:06.784 --> 02:04:09.634
nature, like you can't care about
something you don't understand.

02:04:09.904 --> 02:04:10.354
Rupert Isaacson: For sure.

02:04:10.369 --> 02:04:10.459
And

02:04:11.209 --> 02:04:11.869
Stevie Delahunt: so I think

02:04:12.084 --> 02:04:12.364
Rupert Isaacson: absolutely.

02:04:12.679 --> 02:04:15.859
We, we have a, a, a thing as you
know, the, the work I do with

02:04:15.939 --> 02:04:17.649
special needs and education.

02:04:17.649 --> 02:04:20.139
So we have a, a fun
thing we do every fall.

02:04:20.629 --> 02:04:22.909
I thought, you know, why, why
would, why do kids, why would I

02:04:22.909 --> 02:04:24.439
expect kids to care about forest?

02:04:24.499 --> 02:04:24.799
Right?

02:04:24.979 --> 02:04:26.119
Because they're not in the forest.

02:04:26.449 --> 02:04:26.874
Like, yeah.

02:04:27.499 --> 02:04:27.769
Yeah.

02:04:28.009 --> 02:04:31.399
So though, okay they're in the city,
but there are trees in the city.

02:04:32.089 --> 02:04:37.129
So what we do now is we go out in the
fall sometimes and we fill up bags of

02:04:37.129 --> 02:04:40.849
acorns and chestnuts and things that
are falling on concrete that will not

02:04:40.849 --> 02:04:46.579
get a chance to, to put down roots and
then take them out to the country and

02:04:46.639 --> 02:04:48.769
gorilla, plant them along, fence line.

02:04:48.829 --> 02:04:49.069
Oh, cool.

02:04:49.699 --> 02:04:53.809
And all you gotta do is put them
in like one inch of your thumb

02:04:54.229 --> 02:04:57.559
in, and about 75% of them come up.

02:04:57.559 --> 02:04:58.489
It's really interesting.

02:04:58.759 --> 02:05:03.919
And we've been doing that for, I
started doing it in Texas 20 years ago.

02:05:04.099 --> 02:05:07.309
So now they're all these banks
along my old fence lines in Texas,

02:05:07.309 --> 02:05:08.869
which are like 30, 40 feet high now.

02:05:09.469 --> 02:05:10.099
Oh wow.

02:05:10.159 --> 02:05:12.259
And you're like, wow, it actually works.

02:05:12.759 --> 02:05:18.549
I agree with you that people can only
value what they know and what they've

02:05:18.609 --> 02:05:20.469
also helped to create a nurture.

02:05:20.829 --> 02:05:28.689
So without that relationship with the
land, how and why would anybody care?

02:05:29.709 --> 02:05:32.109
And then people think, well,
yes, but I live in the city, or

02:05:32.139 --> 02:05:36.759
I haven't got an access to now I
don't own land, or I can't travel.

02:05:37.869 --> 02:05:41.229
Or those people have a big house in
Hawaii, but it's not about own land.

02:05:41.229 --> 02:05:42.669
It's not about having
a big house in Hawaii.

02:05:42.909 --> 02:05:45.879
You can travel, you can be
nomadic within your own continent.

02:05:47.109 --> 02:05:52.869
If you change your economy, you can
gather acorns from the concrete and

02:05:52.869 --> 02:05:54.369
plant 'em along a fence line somewhere.

02:05:55.029 --> 02:05:57.549
It's, it doesn't matter the scale.

02:05:58.659 --> 02:06:00.969
It seems to just matter for
the human heart that we do.

02:06:01.749 --> 02:06:04.689
So you talked about a change in
here, you pointed to your heart.

02:06:04.929 --> 02:06:07.419
So what change are you making
in your heart with this would be

02:06:07.419 --> 02:06:10.839
sort of a, a, a good closing thing
of where, where are we going?

02:06:10.839 --> 02:06:11.859
Where, where are you going?

02:06:11.979 --> 02:06:13.659
If you, you are looking to make change.

02:06:14.619 --> 02:06:18.159
It's hard to make change unless
one is making a change in oneself,

02:06:18.159 --> 02:06:22.269
otherwise one hasn't really got
the tools to lead that change.

02:06:23.049 --> 02:06:25.239
Obviously you've made many
changes in yourself, but what

02:06:25.239 --> 02:06:26.319
change are you working on now?

02:06:27.879 --> 02:06:28.239
Stevie Delahunt: Hmm.

02:06:28.389 --> 02:06:29.319
That's a good question.

02:06:29.419 --> 02:06:35.559
I think I'll just go back to, I
have quite a, a few little mantras

02:06:35.559 --> 02:06:41.349
I say to myself every morning and I
always say, how can I be more kind?

02:06:41.379 --> 02:06:42.759
How can I be more loving?

02:06:42.759 --> 02:06:42.819
I.

02:06:43.329 --> 02:06:46.989
And then I ask myself
how I can cherish more.

02:06:47.129 --> 02:06:49.559
I've stolen that from my
friend Kansas Carradine.

02:06:49.669 --> 02:06:50.149
Who got it.

02:06:50.299 --> 02:06:50.449
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

02:06:50.449 --> 02:06:51.199
She's wonderful.

02:06:51.289 --> 02:06:51.799
Yeah, she's

02:06:51.799 --> 02:06:52.309
Stevie Delahunt: wonderful.

02:06:53.279 --> 02:06:54.479
So shout out to her.

02:06:54.479 --> 02:06:57.689
She is a good friend and a bit of a guide.

02:06:57.809 --> 02:06:59.789
There's another human
that's a guide in my life.

02:07:00.359 --> 02:07:00.899
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

02:07:00.959 --> 02:07:01.319
Yes.

02:07:01.319 --> 02:07:02.489
I, she's a good mentor.

02:07:02.789 --> 02:07:05.619
And for those listening
there's a podcast with her.

02:07:05.679 --> 02:07:08.079
Look for that live free ride Free worth.

02:07:08.079 --> 02:07:08.289
Listen.

02:07:08.454 --> 02:07:08.919
Yeah, yeah.

02:07:09.219 --> 02:07:09.579
Okay.

02:07:09.579 --> 02:07:11.559
So she says to cherish,
that's interesting.

02:07:11.829 --> 02:07:12.429
To cherish.

02:07:12.429 --> 02:07:14.409
And what, what do you
mean by cherish what?

02:07:15.124 --> 02:07:16.619
Stevie Delahunt: I think it ties back.

02:07:16.769 --> 02:07:20.459
So again, I also say like,
remember your sense of wonder.

02:07:21.059 --> 02:07:25.589
And I think to me, cherish is having
a sense of wonder about an individual.

02:07:25.779 --> 02:07:33.819
Like just truly loving and seeing and like
seeing in the sense of really observing

02:07:33.889 --> 02:07:37.069
without intent another individual.

02:07:37.129 --> 02:07:40.369
And I love, I just love that word
because that's what I really feel.

02:07:40.369 --> 02:07:40.489
That's

02:07:40.489 --> 02:07:40.789
Rupert Isaacson: intent.

02:07:40.794 --> 02:07:41.134
That's good.

02:07:42.379 --> 02:07:43.159
Without wanting me back.

02:07:43.669 --> 02:07:44.779
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:07:44.779 --> 02:07:46.999
Like they say like
there's two types of love.

02:07:46.999 --> 02:07:49.159
The one that's like trading and giving

02:07:49.354 --> 02:07:50.604
Rupert Isaacson: transactional Yeah,

02:07:52.189 --> 02:07:52.249
Stevie Delahunt: yeah.

02:07:52.249 --> 02:07:52.610
Transactional love.

02:07:52.610 --> 02:07:56.209
And like you, I actually realized
that a lot of love growing up

02:07:56.209 --> 02:07:58.319
and for me was transactional.

02:07:58.349 --> 02:08:00.119
Like I expected something
that, and by the way, nature

02:08:00.119 --> 02:08:00.869
Rupert Isaacson: puts it that way.

02:08:00.869 --> 02:08:02.339
It's not necessarily a bad thing.

02:08:02.339 --> 02:08:04.409
Like people talk about the
human ego being a bad thing.

02:08:04.409 --> 02:08:05.519
It's put there by nature.

02:08:05.729 --> 02:08:07.469
Transactions are put survival by nature.

02:08:07.589 --> 02:08:07.889
Yeah.

02:08:08.009 --> 02:08:12.239
It's not necessarily bad, but
maybe it doesn't nurture the

02:08:12.239 --> 02:08:13.589
heart as much as others do.

02:08:13.769 --> 02:08:14.069
Yeah.

02:08:14.704 --> 02:08:17.309
Stevie Delahunt: And, and I
recognize that I am in a place of

02:08:17.309 --> 02:08:18.689
privilege, like my needs are met.

02:08:18.689 --> 02:08:21.089
Like I'm not gonna probably die easily.

02:08:21.179 --> 02:08:25.079
So I have the luxury of being
able to have a giving love.

02:08:25.649 --> 02:08:29.039
Like I have an abundance of
wealth, which means like I'm

02:08:29.039 --> 02:08:31.439
healthy and I have resources.

02:08:31.919 --> 02:08:38.969
So that puts me at a economic
or energetic advantage.

02:08:38.969 --> 02:08:43.439
So I have the ability to have a giving
love where I don't expect anything back.

02:08:44.039 --> 02:08:48.959
And I think there's something in like,
repeating this idea of cherishing is

02:08:48.959 --> 02:08:54.454
like, I really try to go forward and give
that to other individuals in my life.

02:08:54.929 --> 02:08:56.219
Here, here's a small example.

02:08:56.219 --> 02:08:58.979
I like to give little examples of
things people can do every day.

02:08:58.979 --> 02:09:01.679
If you can start your day and
have your own mantras that make

02:09:01.679 --> 02:09:04.429
sense to you a small, very I.

02:09:04.504 --> 02:09:06.934
I guess this is very
pertinent for our times.

02:09:06.934 --> 02:09:09.514
A small thing that I like
to do in the morning is I do

02:09:09.514 --> 02:09:11.794
use social media for my job.

02:09:12.074 --> 02:09:14.864
And I think it's can be a platform
for so many negative things.

02:09:14.924 --> 02:09:19.574
But I try to genuinely make 10
comments that I genuinely, truly mean.

02:09:20.114 --> 02:09:24.424
And I try to send out 10 positive
comments on social media every

02:09:24.424 --> 02:09:26.584
morning, and then I just turn it off.

02:09:26.584 --> 02:09:29.614
Like that's, that's my interaction,
like I'm done until I have to do

02:09:29.614 --> 02:09:32.824
like some sort of advertising for
my own business or interaction.

02:09:32.874 --> 02:09:38.034
But I, I try to look, find stories that
really resonate with me, see and cherish

02:09:38.034 --> 02:09:42.414
that individual for the experience
they're having and give them a, a line

02:09:42.504 --> 02:09:46.434
of encouragement or just like, I see
what you're doing and it's amazing.

02:09:46.974 --> 02:09:50.994
And so that's like a small, small little
ritual I have every morning, and that's

02:09:50.994 --> 02:09:52.854
like, gets me, starts to build that habit.

02:09:52.854 --> 02:09:54.744
Trolling, cherishing, what's that?

02:09:55.089 --> 02:09:55.854
Rupert Isaacson: Positive trolling.

02:09:56.424 --> 02:09:56.784
Stevie Delahunt: Yes.

02:09:56.784 --> 02:09:57.714
Positive trolling.

02:09:57.714 --> 02:09:58.194
Exactly.

02:09:59.034 --> 02:09:59.994
Rupert Isaacson: That's that's lovely.

02:10:00.554 --> 02:10:01.004
Yes.

02:10:01.069 --> 02:10:02.354
I, I, I so agree.

02:10:02.564 --> 02:10:04.814
I, if I, the first thing I look
at on social media is something

02:10:04.814 --> 02:10:05.894
called Good News Network.

02:10:06.494 --> 02:10:10.064
And if I, when I see something good
on it, I send it to people, you know?

02:10:10.094 --> 02:10:10.214
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

02:10:10.349 --> 02:10:11.774
I, I actually have that too.

02:10:12.284 --> 02:10:13.694
Rupert Isaacson: It's,
it's a wonderful thing.

02:10:13.844 --> 02:10:17.294
I used to go straight on and look at the
Ukraine war, and then I realized that

02:10:17.324 --> 02:10:21.404
it was depressing me, and I still look
at the Ukraine war, but first I look at.

02:10:22.514 --> 02:10:23.294
Good news network.

02:10:23.984 --> 02:10:25.364
You talked about social media.

02:10:25.424 --> 02:10:30.524
How do people find you and if they want
to come and do the derby with you, and

02:10:30.524 --> 02:10:35.624
if they want to come to Bend Oregon
and drop mushrooms with you and talk to

02:10:35.624 --> 02:10:39.514
trees and if they want to do stuff with
horses with you, how do they find you?

02:10:40.594 --> 02:10:43.254
Stevie Delahunt: So, our business
because of both the psilocybin and

02:10:43.254 --> 02:10:47.054
the horses and the perspective of
the ridiculousness of it all, our

02:10:47.054 --> 02:10:49.274
business name is intergalactic equine.

02:10:49.754 --> 02:10:52.754
So we're at intergalactic equine.com.

02:10:53.204 --> 02:10:56.174
But the best way to reach
me is through Facebook's.

02:10:56.324 --> 02:11:00.154
I'm Stevie Della Hunt, or
Instagram is the absolute best.

02:11:00.154 --> 02:11:03.064
And that's at adventurous Barbie.

02:11:03.779 --> 02:11:05.734
Rupert Isaacson:
Adventurous, not adventurous,

02:11:06.244 --> 02:11:06.754
Stevie Delahunt: right?

02:11:06.859 --> 02:11:07.179
Rupert Isaacson: Adventurist?

02:11:07.989 --> 02:11:08.279
Stevie Delahunt: Yeah.

02:11:09.039 --> 02:11:10.264
Adventurous Barbie.

02:11:11.884 --> 02:11:14.344
And I got that name because
I had so many clothes.

02:11:14.344 --> 02:11:18.664
Not really 'cause I'm blonde or anything,
or have any sort of Barbie proportions.

02:11:18.664 --> 02:11:21.214
It's more because I just have
an outfit for everything.

02:11:22.064 --> 02:11:25.334
Rupert Isaacson: I, I, I,
I have aspirations to be an

02:11:25.334 --> 02:11:26.924
adventurous Barbie myself.

02:11:26.924 --> 02:11:27.404
I'll, I'll see.

02:11:28.239 --> 02:11:29.169
Acquire more clothes.

02:11:29.924 --> 02:11:34.724
But, okay, so Instagram,
adventurist Barbie.

02:11:35.414 --> 02:11:35.504
Mm-hmm.

02:11:36.374 --> 02:11:40.664
Intergalactic equine.com.

02:11:40.664 --> 02:11:40.844
Dot com.

02:11:41.879 --> 02:11:42.509
Perfect.

02:11:43.139 --> 02:11:46.949
I think I'm gonna come and explore
psilocybin in the mountains

02:11:46.949 --> 02:11:50.039
of eastern Oregon with you.

02:11:50.879 --> 02:11:51.389
That would

02:11:51.389 --> 02:11:52.169
Stevie Delahunt: be amazing.

02:11:52.199 --> 02:11:52.229
Okay.

02:11:52.499 --> 02:11:52.829
Rupert Isaacson: I would,

02:11:53.339 --> 02:11:55.799
Stevie Delahunt: I would love
to have a conversation on a day.

02:11:55.799 --> 02:11:56.849
I wasn't up until four

02:11:59.189 --> 02:11:59.999
the night before.

02:12:00.419 --> 02:12:01.019
Rupert Isaacson: I'm up for it.

02:12:01.619 --> 02:12:02.069
I'm up for it.

02:12:02.069 --> 02:12:02.429
Stevie Delahunt: Amazing.

02:12:03.359 --> 02:12:03.569
Rupert Isaacson: All right.

02:12:03.569 --> 02:12:07.139
Well thank you so much for coming on
and I look forward to the next time.

02:12:08.339 --> 02:12:08.969
Stevie Delahunt: I do as well.

02:12:08.969 --> 02:12:09.899
Thank you so much.

02:12:10.139 --> 02:12:11.279
I enjoyed this so much.

02:12:11.579 --> 02:12:12.059
Rupert Isaacson: Likewise.

02:12:12.059 --> 02:12:12.179
And

02:12:12.779 --> 02:12:17.039
Stevie Delahunt: quick shout out
to Amanda Marini for connecting us.

02:12:17.069 --> 02:12:18.029
She's amazing.

02:12:18.119 --> 02:12:19.349
I just wanted to say that.

02:12:20.129 --> 02:12:23.559
Rupert Isaacson: Yes, our mutual
friend Amanda Menini another nomad

02:12:24.049 --> 02:12:32.209
Italian academic living in Colorado
and Italy and making people feel

02:12:33.169 --> 02:12:35.089
happy and healed all over the world.

02:12:35.089 --> 02:12:36.109
I think Amanda,

02:12:36.349 --> 02:12:37.999
Stevie Delahunt: ah,
she's such a cheerleader.

02:12:37.999 --> 02:12:38.329
She is.

02:12:38.329 --> 02:12:42.349
Come and done a bootcamp with me and she
was just like, you have to talk to Rupert.

02:12:42.379 --> 02:12:45.679
Like you guys would connect
on so many levels and yeah.

02:12:45.679 --> 02:12:48.109
What a wonderful cheerleader of a human.

02:12:48.139 --> 02:12:50.524
And there there's a good example
of someone cherishing other people.

02:12:51.079 --> 02:12:51.739
Rupert Isaacson: I would agree.

02:12:51.829 --> 02:12:52.459
I would agree.

02:12:52.489 --> 02:12:57.379
And, and and really being able to take
pleasure in the achievements of others.

02:12:57.889 --> 02:13:00.589
Yeah, that's a rare quality I can imagine.

02:13:00.589 --> 02:13:00.769
It really

02:13:00.769 --> 02:13:03.199
Stevie Delahunt: is beautiful human being.

02:13:03.709 --> 02:13:04.129
Rupert Isaacson: Indeed.

02:13:05.554 --> 02:13:09.484
Alright, well thank you and
yeah, until the next time.

02:13:10.174 --> 02:13:10.954
Stevie Delahunt: Thank you so much.

02:13:10.954 --> 02:13:11.824
I really appreciate it.

02:13:12.394 --> 02:13:12.904
Rupert Isaacson: Likewise.

02:13:12.963 --> 02:13:18.063
As you know, if you followed any of
my work, I'm an autism dad and we have

02:13:18.063 --> 02:13:24.623
a whole career before this podcast in
helping people with neurodivergence,

02:13:25.303 --> 02:13:27.523
either who are professionals in the field.

02:13:27.603 --> 02:13:28.443
Are you a therapist?

02:13:28.863 --> 02:13:30.133
Are you a caregiver?

02:13:30.523 --> 02:13:31.533
Are you a parent?

02:13:31.968 --> 02:13:33.998
Or are you somebody with neurodivergence?

02:13:35.438 --> 02:13:40.378
When my son, Rowan, was
diagnosed with autism in 2004,

02:13:40.418 --> 02:13:42.048
I really didn't know what to do.

02:13:42.248 --> 02:13:47.518
So I reached out for mentorship, and
I found it through an amazing adult

02:13:47.558 --> 02:13:50.358
autistic woman who's very famous, Dr.

02:13:50.508 --> 02:13:51.398
Temple Grandin.

02:13:51.598 --> 02:13:53.238
And she told me what to do.

02:13:53.288 --> 02:13:57.528
And it's been working so
amazingly for the last 20 years.

02:13:57.878 --> 02:14:02.328
That not only is my son basically
independent, but we've helped

02:14:02.588 --> 02:14:06.338
countless, countless thousands
of others reach the same goal.

02:14:06.678 --> 02:14:10.578
Working in schools, working at
home, working in therapy settings.

02:14:11.608 --> 02:14:16.048
If you would like to learn this
cutting edge, neuroscience backed

02:14:16.268 --> 02:14:18.308
approach, it's called Movement Method.

02:14:18.968 --> 02:14:22.325
You can learn it online, you
can learn it very, very simply.

02:14:22.325 --> 02:14:24.588
It's almost laughably simple.

02:14:25.528 --> 02:14:28.228
The important thing is to begin.

02:14:29.158 --> 02:14:32.308
Let yourself be mentored as I was by Dr.

02:14:32.308 --> 02:14:35.598
Grandin and see what results can follow.

02:14:36.628 --> 02:14:39.558
Go to this website, newtrailslearning.

02:14:41.828 --> 02:14:44.333
com Sign up as a gold member.

02:14:44.773 --> 02:14:47.663
Take the online movement method course.

02:14:48.153 --> 02:14:49.523
It's in 40 countries.

02:14:50.133 --> 02:14:52.193
Let us know how it goes for you.

02:14:52.393 --> 02:14:53.163
We really want to know.

02:14:53.173 --> 02:14:57.673
We really want to help people like
me, people like you, out there

02:14:58.023 --> 02:15:01.303
live their best life, to live
free, ride free, see what happens.