{ "version": "1.0.0", "segments": [ { "speaker": "Narrator", "startTime": "3.36", "endTime": "14.554999", "body": "This is the Transform Your Teaching Podcast. The Transform Your Teaching Podcast is a service of the Center for Teaching and Learning at Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio." }, { "speaker": "Ryan", "startTime": "15.915", "endTime": "26.715", "body": "Hello, and welcome to this episode of Transform Your Teaching. In today's episode, Dr. Rob McDole and Dr. Jared Pyles continue our series called Have You Tried? By talking more about storytelling." }, { "speaker": "Ryan", "startTime": "26.795", "endTime": "27.915", "body": "Thanks for joining us." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "28.37", "endTime": "30.37", "body": "Well, welcome back. And today" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "30.45", "endTime": "31.25", "body": "Thank you." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "31.970001", "endTime": "32.850002", "body": "Dr. Pyles." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "32.850002", "endTime": "33.41", "body": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "33.97", "endTime": "35.33", "body": "You've been waiting to do that." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "35.33", "endTime": "36.21", "body": "I have been." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "36.21", "endTime": "37.170002", "body": "That was pretty good." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "37.170002", "endTime": "38.05", "body": "You're welcome." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "38.13", "endTime": "72.085", "body": "Today, we get to talk about our conversation with Dr. Shultze as well as wrap up this idea on storytelling for our listeners. And I'm gonna start out with a quote that he made and just get your reflection on it because I found it really punchy when he gave it to us. And that quote was, story is the most potent form of human expression." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "72.645", "endTime": "103.005", "body": "Yeah. I I agree. I mean, it's something that follows us our whole life. As we're kids, we are told stories to learn lessons, to calm us down, to excite us. How else are you taught, at least for me anyway, when I was growing up, my parents and my grandparents, especially, I wanted this generational thing, would tell me stories." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "103.565", "endTime": "117.95", "body": "And it was like, don't do that. I did that once and but, seriously, it was like, don't don't put your hand on the stove because it'll burn. I did that once or my sister did that once and your aunt, whatever her name was. I can't think of my name. I can't even get it." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "117.95", "endTime": "136.725", "body": "Your aunt Helen did that once and she had two fingers singed off or something, you know, something ridiculous. I had an uncle that put his fingers underneath the weed eater and they lost their finger. Anyway, it worked because it stuck with me. And so but, yeah, then as you get older, those stories either become your own stories" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "136.885", "endTime": "137.205", "body": "Mhmm." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "137.46", "endTime": "177.68999", "body": "Or the movies that you watch, things that are narrative driven. So yeah, I would have to agree with him that story seems to be at least culturally something that follows you, something that's still useful. Think about speakers and you go back to Aristotle and ethos, pathos, logos. A way that a good speaker will connect emotionally through pathos is through storytelling in order to make connections with people, to get their point across through the emotion of the story. So, yeah, it can definitely be a very potent way of expression and learning." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "178.345", "endTime": "178.745", "body": "Well, and" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "178.745", "endTime": "205.915", "body": "it goes back to what doctor Oakley also said, which was one of the most powerful ways to learn something was through metaphor. Yeah. And so, you know, doctor Shultz would say that we are storied creatures. I would like to say we're storied, you know, human beings made in the image of God because he has shown us his story throughout history. Right." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "205.915", "endTime": "228.38", "body": "And one of the things that he did give us when we asked, right, was what are the tenets of it? What are the main pieces of a story? And I remember him saying, well, it grabs attention. Yep. It allows you to identify with whatever's being told, namely has some sort of identification and you can identify with it." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "228.38", "endTime": "239.495", "body": "The listener can identify with it. And it also creates anticipation in the listener. So you're always thinking when somebody's telling a story, oh, what's gonna happen next? As long as it's an engaging story. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "239.495", "endTime": "240.69499", "body": "Sure. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "240.69499", "endTime": "272.17502", "body": "And and it becomes memorable. Right. So it's attention, identification, anticipation, and memory. And we, I think both of us, just been through our own experiences as teachers, but also in our conversations with doctor Schultz, doctor Oakley, and probably others. I have a feeling we'll probably have something like this as well with doctor Lane" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "272.33502", "endTime": "272.575", "body": "Mhmm." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "272.655", "endTime": "284.24", "body": "Who's coming up. Right? That we're not gonna be able to get away from this whole idea of story. So you teach in this area of story." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "284.24", "endTime": "285.04", "body": "I do." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "285.2", "endTime": "285.76", "body": "Right?" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "285.76", "endTime": "287.28", "body": "I have this semester. Yes." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "288.115", "endTime": "307.18002", "body": "And I have found for me, teaching in business ethics, that stories from people in the business world seem to stick more than just, you know, discussing the topic Mhmm. As a general rule." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "307.18002", "endTime": "307.74002", "body": "Mhmm." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "308.54", "endTime": "322.395", "body": "And I think it depends on the individual. Right? If you're an accountant and you've got somebody talking about accountancy and doing ethics in in the accounting world, others will be like, they remember it. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "322.395", "endTime": "323.115", "body": "Right." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "323.195", "endTime": "329.88", "body": "And I'm sure you too also have been able to do something similar." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "329.88", "endTime": "384.41498", "body": "Yeah. I mean, teaching an intro to literature course, and really any literature course as an English teacher, I feel like my role is to not only convey the importance of the story or its relevance and significance in the timeline of history and literature, but more importantly, it's to make a connection that they can make as well. Because you can take a very boring story, but if you can show how it's relevant or close in theme to other pieces of literature or maybe more modern literature. The book we're reading in the class is How to Read Like a Professor by Foster. And in it, he's taking all these texts and he's centering around these universal themes that are in literature, like why is violence used?" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "384.41498", "endTime": "395.29", "body": "Why is there always a hero? And why is it that the, people beside the hero end up dead? Like the red shirts in Star Trek. Why do they always end up dead? Because there's a purpose for that." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "395.29", "endTime": "396.17", "body": "And they always do." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "396.17", "endTime": "424.95", "body": "And they always do because it's supposed to show the danger surrounding the hero. Otherwise, it's like the you can't just have the villain go, oh, I'm really evil. They have to do something that shows that they're evil, so they kill the red shirts around Captain Kirk. Just things like that. So storytelling by nature in this course is just part of the course, but it's the I focus more on the lessons and the themes, the human element to it, to make that connection." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "424.95", "endTime": "453.64", "body": "So even if you're teaching a course like that, you can tease out those elements to make that connection for students. Even like two episodes ago, we did success stories for gamification, which are essentially us telling five stories of how gamification was used in research and what the results were. We could have just said, here's a list of studies, go read them yourself. But instead we use it, we created essentially a story from each one." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "453.905", "endTime": "456.385", "body": "Yeah. And the funniest one for us The funniest one" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "456.385", "endTime": "481.21", "body": "for us was the But stats going that but that one stuck the most, which is interesting because I think Wizkuts are so creative. I do wonder though, do you think that the reason that story feels, to me it feels more difficult to put into higher education, do you think it's because it's subjective and it's not objective data? Like we always shun What" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "481.29", "endTime": "481.93", "body": "do you mean?" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "481.93", "endTime": "542.28503", "body": "So like instead of me telling someone a story about someone adopting a technology and how when I went through the steps with them by showing them the relative advantage of using it, the trialability, the usability, the visibility of it, going through, like, instead of me Like, if I tell a story about Everett Rogers' DOI, instead of just giving data about a study of Rogers' DOI and how it was used. Because the data is objective, I feel like in education and academic in general, that's more valuable than the subjective of me just telling a story. Because in my head, I'm like, why aren't we telling more stories in education and why aren't we teaching more, from my perspective anyway, there's less storytelling than there is in giving objective data." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "542.28503", "endTime": "566.37", "body": "Sure. I think it does insert a level of subjectiveness. But I can also see if you took those same data points and you put a person or or someone in the study, maybe you gave them a different name, but you could track their experience. Right? Let's let's talk about stats kwando for a minute." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "566.75494", "endTime": "576.995", "body": "Sure. Let's say you you you were that person. Right? Let me tell you about Jared. Jared had Jared had to take this course on statistics." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "577.31494", "endTime": "587.99", "body": "I took two courses on statistics. And Jared was not excited about statistics. Matter of fact, statistics made Jared cry sometimes." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "588.31", "endTime": "589.67", "body": "It didn't go that far." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "589.67", "endTime": "591.43", "body": "Well Let's not let's not I'm telling the story and" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "591.43", "endTime": "592.23", "body": "I'm being subjective." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "594.78503", "endTime": "597.905", "body": "I'm using what you might call hyperbole." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "597.905", "endTime": "598.78503", "body": "Yeah. Okay." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "600.705", "endTime": "623.03503", "body": "And Jared just wanted to know what he needed to know. And then along came this course at his school called stats quando. And he was like, what's this? Right? And he's like, did I fall into a k through 12 kindergarten class somehow?" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "623.03503", "endTime": "628.55505", "body": "I mean, is this how to teach statistics to babies? What's going on right now?" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "628.55505", "endTime": "631.11505", "body": "That'd be a great course. Stats for babies." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "631.195", "endTime": "663.16", "body": "Yeah. He was like, you've heard you've heard of Mozart for babies, but have you heard of stats for babies? And, you know, Jared started taking the class, and he like, wait a minute. This has got a story. And he starts reading a story about this student who struggles with stats and how applying himself to this age old art of stat quandu can turn him into a ninja of studies and data Mhmm." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "663.16", "endTime": "672.935", "body": "And knowledge. You know, we could go on. Yeah. Because maybe people are listening and they're wanting to know how did it turn out? Please tell me." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "672.935", "endTime": "677.415", "body": "The first boss was descriptive statistics by far. I think that was the first boss." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "678.055", "endTime": "683.335", "body": "Well, he slayed the major boss called Dicertation." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "683.895", "endTime": "684.375", "body": "Yes." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "684.95996", "endTime": "690.72", "body": "And he slayed Dicertation. And, yeah, he was triumphant in the end." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "691.12", "endTime": "691.92", "body": "Great story." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "691.92", "endTime": "695.68", "body": "Great story. And he has a badge that hangs up" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "695.83997", "endTime": "696.95996", "body": "Yeah. I point to behind" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "696.95996", "endTime": "698.0", "body": "him and he points to it." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "698.0", "endTime": "699.04", "body": "When I wanna make a point." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "699.04", "endTime": "703.045", "body": "Remember, I defeated the great boss dissertation." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "703.045", "endTime": "703.765", "body": "I did." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "703.765", "endTime": "710.72504", "body": "Mhmm. So I could see how that might help someone. Just chill out." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "711.765", "endTime": "712.965", "body": "Right? Sure." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "712.965", "endTime": "729.11505", "body": "And maybe not think of it, you know, all the formulas and the tests, like chi squared and Ugh. T tests. Yeah. You know, things that that are so foreign and" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "729.11505", "endTime": "730.635", "body": "it takes it validation." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "730.715", "endTime": "749.44", "body": "Right. It takes it and it makes it it brings it into a level into an area that you can comprehend and understand. Yeah. And I think that's really the key to story is it takes things we don't understand and it builds a bridge that's comfortable, at least, hopefully. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "749.44", "endTime": "770.61005", "body": "Now for things like don't dos, it builds a bridge of fear Mhmm. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like putting like you said earlier, putting your hand down on a hot stove is not a good idea Correct. In any any land or or con Any culture. Any context." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "770.61005", "endTime": "783.685", "body": "Yeah. Hand on stove, bad. Mhmm. And I'm really interested to see something like stats quando. I understand, you know, you may wonder, why don't we do it in higher ed?" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "783.685", "endTime": "815.615", "body": "I think it's because we become so tunnel vision in terms of our our areas of study, and we wanna go after those variables. We wanna understand it. We have our, you know, we have a vocabulary and when we're comfortable with our vocabulary even if someone else outside of this area of study doesn't get it, doesn't understand it, we do. And so we know when we have those conversations. And story, I think, can help bridge those gaps." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "815.935", "endTime": "837.82", "body": "Yeah. I I agree. Something else that doctor Q talked about that I think is important is listening to your students and the stories they're telling. Don't dismiss that as much. The hard part though is when my students walk in this is no way this is gonna sound like such a huge flex, and I don't mean it to be whatsoever." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "838.425", "endTime": "847.705", "body": "But when I walk in the classroom, they quiet down. And I don't know if that's respect? I guess so, but it's like I wanna listen to what they're saying." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "847.945", "endTime": "848.345", "body": "Right." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "848.345", "endTime": "864.59", "body": "But they stop talking, so I'm They don't want you to hear. All all you hear in the classroom is as I'm logging into the computer. So I gotta figure that out. Maybe talk maybe figure out what they're talking about during break or something like that. But that that's a have you had any experience like that with some of your students?" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "864.99", "endTime": "883.23", "body": "I mean, with them not talking sure, the thing that I've started doing is I just now I've learned their names, I just call them out Yeah. You know, as they come in. So I've had a lot more come in a lot earlier. And as they come in, I just say, hey, so and so. How was your weekend?" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "883.23", "endTime": "896.86505", "body": "You know, as I see them, I greet them, you know. Some respond, some don't. If I get kind of an idea, you know, that they may be open for more conversation, I'll ask them another question. Like, how was your weekend? What'd you do?" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "897.585", "endTime": "907.185", "body": "And they may or may not tell me if they do, then we have some place to go. Like, one individual told me today that they went to the Indianapolis Colts game." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "907.265", "endTime": "907.825", "body": "Oh, nice." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "908.37994", "endTime": "927.375", "body": "And she goes, I'm not really a fan, but my friend had tickets. Right? I'm like, oh, okay. And I said, but you had a good time. And and then another student piped up and goes, that really was not really a game as much as it was a slaughter." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "927.375", "endTime": "936.015", "body": "40 some to six. And I was like, I had no idea. That doesn't sound much like a contest. Yeah. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "936.015", "endTime": "978.935", "body": "And that got us into other issues. And, yeah, I was starting to hear and to see how these students responded. So it's fun to just let them tell me stories about themselves, and then it helps me weave kind of maybe weave it a little bit into what we're gonna be dealing with that day. So today was Daniel chapter three, you know, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace. And, you know, being able to weave some of those some of those things in, it made me think of Edith Schaeffer." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "979.33496", "endTime": "985.57495", "body": "Edith Schaeffer wrote a kind of an autobiography of their lives together. And" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "985.975", "endTime": "987.415", "body": "Wife of Francis Schaeffer." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "987.415", "endTime": "1017.725", "body": "Wife of Francis Schaeffer. Correct. And it was called Tapestry. And she used that idea of weaving threads, how God weaves threads and weaves us together to tell his story. And it it that's what the story kind of makes me think about is how seemingly disconnected things can actually be connected if you just take the time to look and see." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "1017.725", "endTime": "1019.165", "body": "And as you said, listen." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1019.94", "endTime": "1025.5399", "body": "Interesting. I'm wondering how to weave storytelling into" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "1026.26", "endTime": "1027.46", "body": "Teaching storytelling." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1027.78", "endTime": "1036.7649", "body": "Yeah. Into teaching storytelling. Yeah. Besides just, like, the anecdotes or Mhmm. The little pieces along the way that are, like, comical." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1036.7649", "endTime": "1044.125", "body": "They don't really relate to the content. But I don't know. Maybe my class itself is enough storytelling with the stories that we're reading. But" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "1044.605", "endTime": "1056.88", "body": "But it does make it personal, though. Like, you're we were in your class. You let us come into your class. Yeah. And you told a personal story of your interaction, you know, and understanding Macbeth." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1056.88", "endTime": "1057.52", "body": "Mhmm." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "1057.92", "endTime": "1077.6399", "body": "And that probably opened up Macbeth to more people than it did beforehand. Because up to that point, you know, they didn't probably know a lot of people who actually had any kind of opinion about Macbeth, let alone understood it." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1077.72", "endTime": "1078.3599", "body": "Mhmm." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "1078.84", "endTime": "1095.5149", "body": "And I started understanding, you know, oh, okay. I see why Jared likes it. Right? Sure. So there was a relationship that you didn't see that was created without us even having, like, back and forth communication." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "1095.835", "endTime": "1108.14", "body": "But I'm sitting there following what you're saying, And then you tell a story about your own personal, like, impact from this story. And boom. Like, okay." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1108.14", "endTime": "1112.345", "body": "I like that. I didn't even realize it. So thank you for that. I appreciate it." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "1112.345", "endTime": "1112.585", "body": "You're" }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1112.585", "endTime": "1127.57", "body": "welcome. So, yeah, storytelling. Doctor Q was great discussing it. I think we can find ways of weaving it into our teaching, so maybe you make that a you know, we we say this for every single one that we go through. If you try it, let us know." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1128.0499", "endTime": "1134.5299", "body": "Reach out. Let us know how it goes. If it goes well, great. If it doesn't go well, tell us the same way. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1134.5299", "endTime": "1143.795", "body": "We wanna hear from both sides of it because we're, just like you, we're exploring our in our own teaching these these new methodologies and modes and stuff like that. So" }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "1143.875", "endTime": "1157.5399", "body": "And I would really like to hear from listeners if they decide to do, like, a story arc. Kinda like stats quando. Yeah. And, Jared, if you decide to do that, I hope you'll tell us about it." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1157.5399", "endTime": "1164.705", "body": "I will. So on our next episode, Rob, we are privileged to have doctor Daforia Lane join us to talk about music." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "1164.785", "endTime": "1165.985", "body": "Musical storytelling." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1165.985", "endTime": "1178.24", "body": "Musical storytelling or music in general. Yeah. It's something you have explored. I haven't nearly as much, so I'm very intrigued to hear from her and as a music therapist herself, how she sees music and learning interacting." }, { "speaker": "Rob", "startTime": "1178.24", "endTime": "1185.6", "body": "She is a brilliant individual, and I hope our listeners are are ready for what I think will be a fantastic time." }, { "speaker": "Jared", "startTime": "1185.6", "endTime": "1186.88", "body": "Yeah. I'm looking forward to it." }, { "speaker": "Ryan", "startTime": "1186.88", "endTime": "1204.9851", "body": "Thanks for joining this episode of Transform Your Teaching. If you have any questions about our comments on storytelling, feel free to reach out to us at CTLpodcast@Cedarville.edu. You can also send us a message on LinkedIn. And don't forget to check out our blog at cedarville.edu/focusblog. Thanks for listening." } ] }