1 00:00:00,083 --> 00:00:02,083 All right. Welcome back to Agency Journey. 2 00:00:02,083 --> 00:00:03,458 This is your host, Gray MacKenzie. 3 00:00:03,458 --> 00:00:05,125 And this week, I've got the pleasure 4 00:00:05,125 --> 00:00:08,666 of bringing on someone who now holds the record for, 5 00:00:08,666 --> 00:00:11,833 I think, the longest time span 6 00:00:11,833 --> 00:00:14,875 as a guest on podcast. 7 00:00:14,875 --> 00:00:16,791 Mike Rose 8 00:00:16,958 --> 00:00:19,375 from from a handful of different things room talking about Mike 9 00:00:19,458 --> 00:00:22,500 you're here journey at Major Media labs your acquisition 10 00:00:22,500 --> 00:00:25,791 to your work as an author and what's coming up next. 11 00:00:25,791 --> 00:00:27,875 But welcome to the podcast. 12 00:00:27,875 --> 00:00:28,458 Thanks Gray. 13 00:00:28,458 --> 00:00:31,208 It's great to be on again after all these years. 14 00:00:31,208 --> 00:00:35,416 I know, so I should have looked it up, but either end 2015 15 00:00:35,875 --> 00:00:39,833 or I think it actually was in 2015, it could have been early 2016. 16 00:00:39,833 --> 00:00:42,291 I think you're the 14th episode of the podcast. 17 00:00:42,750 --> 00:00:45,500 Then I say, and we talk a lot about you wrote this book, 18 00:00:46,041 --> 00:00:50,458 ROE powers ROI are Why back in 2012. 19 00:00:50,958 --> 00:00:52,250 Right? Yeah. Yeah. 20 00:00:53,833 --> 00:00:55,375 Wow, you basta. 21 00:00:55,375 --> 00:00:58,708 You're in the 11th, 11th year now of the book, which is. 22 00:00:58,708 --> 00:01:00,041 Oh, yeah. 23 00:01:00,041 --> 00:01:01,500 But so we talked a little bit about that. 24 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:02,750 We talked about where Mojo was. 25 00:01:02,750 --> 00:01:05,250 I think you're about 14 people at a time. 26 00:01:05,250 --> 00:01:08,250 And so there's this whole, like agency growth story. 27 00:01:08,250 --> 00:01:10,666 And then, you know, kind of culminates, I want to work my way. 28 00:01:10,666 --> 00:01:14,791 We're in media race here and start and a halfway through the journey 29 00:01:14,791 --> 00:01:15,500 or a little bit more than that 30 00:01:15,500 --> 00:01:19,041 and then work our way back and work our way forward. 31 00:01:19,041 --> 00:01:22,625 But if we start kind of with the event that a lot of agency 32 00:01:22,625 --> 00:01:25,666 owners, a lot of listeners are probably anxious for 33 00:01:25,666 --> 00:01:26,500 at some point in their life, 34 00:01:26,500 --> 00:01:30,666 which is an exit, you were able you and your wife Nicole were yeah. 35 00:01:30,666 --> 00:01:32,750 To sell the business last year 36 00:01:33,208 --> 00:01:37,166 to a much larger agency backed by I was a P 37 00:01:38,375 --> 00:01:40,708 capital in in gravity global 38 00:01:41,541 --> 00:01:45,250 and so can we just kind of start with give folks 39 00:01:45,250 --> 00:01:49,250 the real quick overview of what what was Mojo Media Labs 40 00:01:49,791 --> 00:01:52,708 and what did the exit look like for you and Nicole and the team? 41 00:01:53,541 --> 00:01:54,208 Sure. 42 00:01:54,875 --> 00:01:56,708 Well, I'm keeping it real here. 43 00:01:56,708 --> 00:01:59,083 My golden retriever is rolling around under my feet, so 44 00:01:59,375 --> 00:02:03,166 I'll try not to let that avoid me, avoid the conversation. 45 00:02:03,791 --> 00:02:08,333 But yeah, it it was it was a it was a tremendous opportunity, 46 00:02:08,333 --> 00:02:10,916 a life changing opportunity, honestly, for Nicole and I. 47 00:02:11,416 --> 00:02:16,041 And we we went through the decision making process 48 00:02:16,041 --> 00:02:19,541 to even decide to sell like the same decision 49 00:02:19,541 --> 00:02:21,083 making process we did for everything. 50 00:02:21,083 --> 00:02:24,208 I mean, higher spires clients, you 51 00:02:24,208 --> 00:02:27,083 know, moving, hiring, I mean, you name it, 52 00:02:27,416 --> 00:02:30,541 we just follow the same process, which is, you know, 53 00:02:31,291 --> 00:02:33,750 and that was really driven by, you know, core values. 54 00:02:33,750 --> 00:02:35,958 And, you know, the first thing it had to be good 55 00:02:35,958 --> 00:02:38,041 for the mojo makers as we called them. 56 00:02:38,041 --> 00:02:39,750 We we abolished the word employees. 57 00:02:39,750 --> 00:02:42,041 We don't like the word employee is seen sound subservient. 58 00:02:42,041 --> 00:02:46,000 So we we number one, had to be good for the mojo makers. 59 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:48,500 And number two, it had to be good for the clients. 60 00:02:48,791 --> 00:02:51,625 And then we felt that if it was always good for the mojo 61 00:02:51,625 --> 00:02:53,333 makers, was always good for the clients, 62 00:02:53,333 --> 00:02:56,416 and it would be good for my Nicole and myself 63 00:02:56,833 --> 00:02:59,250 and that was the same decision making process. 64 00:02:59,250 --> 00:03:03,166 I think it's just habit that we go through to decide to ultimately, 65 00:03:03,833 --> 00:03:07,666 you know, move on to to exit mojo and sell to grab to Global 66 00:03:07,666 --> 00:03:09,416 and go through that decision making process 67 00:03:09,416 --> 00:03:11,166 in order to make sure it was the right fit for everybody. 68 00:03:12,833 --> 00:03:14,250 How long was the time? 69 00:03:14,250 --> 00:03:14,750 And I don't know. 70 00:03:14,750 --> 00:03:18,333 I don't even know the inside scoop on like the interest 71 00:03:18,666 --> 00:03:21,916 inbound to you guys or was this a decision, Hey, we're going to start 72 00:03:22,125 --> 00:03:23,291 building an exit plan. 73 00:03:23,291 --> 00:03:25,750 And obviously you guys had done a lot to prepare 74 00:03:26,083 --> 00:03:27,916 and which I'd like to talk about as well, 75 00:03:27,916 --> 00:03:28,791 kind of the work that 76 00:03:28,791 --> 00:03:31,166 that went into getting the agency in a place where it was 77 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,125 both desirable and, you know, yeah, the ability to exit 78 00:03:35,541 --> 00:03:36,708 and leave day to day operations. 79 00:03:36,708 --> 00:03:38,208 But how long was the timeframe 80 00:03:38,208 --> 00:03:40,666 between that first touchpoint with the Gravity Global team 81 00:03:41,083 --> 00:03:45,208 and then actually closing the, the transaction? 82 00:03:45,208 --> 00:03:47,750 We signed the other like on 83 00:03:47,750 --> 00:03:51,708 January 3rd and we officially closed on May 12th. 84 00:03:52,583 --> 00:03:52,875 Okay. 85 00:03:52,875 --> 00:03:54,583 So we were January. 86 00:03:54,583 --> 00:03:57,500 Yeah, relatively speaking. Yeah, I was pretty quick. 87 00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:00,000 It's a 88 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:04,500 they're based in London, so it's a it's a London headquartered agency 89 00:04:04,916 --> 00:04:08,500 and we went through four stages of due diligence 90 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,541 excuse me, for different areas of due diligence 91 00:04:11,541 --> 00:04:15,541 to include legal tax, financial, etc.. 92 00:04:15,541 --> 00:04:20,291 And so that was, it was, it was a very we prepared for it. 93 00:04:21,125 --> 00:04:24,083 We are very grateful to have run a very 94 00:04:25,375 --> 00:04:28,041 tight knit and very well-run agency 95 00:04:28,041 --> 00:04:30,083 in the sense of we had our stuff together. 96 00:04:30,750 --> 00:04:34,375 So it went it went super smooth. 97 00:04:34,375 --> 00:04:37,958 But to answer your earlier question is when we decided the 98 00:04:38,333 --> 00:04:43,875 the the bigger decision here was we actually decided on in 2013, 99 00:04:45,208 --> 00:04:46,791 I was I won't give you the long story 100 00:04:46,791 --> 00:04:48,583 unless you wanted, but I came home from an event 101 00:04:48,583 --> 00:04:51,375 one night after talking to multiple friends 102 00:04:51,375 --> 00:04:53,583 over multiple years of selling our businesses. 103 00:04:53,583 --> 00:04:57,166 And I came on to Nicole and I just basically said, 104 00:04:57,708 --> 00:05:00,833 in ten years on May 13th, we're going to sell Mojo Media Labs. 105 00:05:01,291 --> 00:05:04,916 And that would have been ten years from 2013 to 2023. 106 00:05:04,916 --> 00:05:08,875 And and she knew the state of the agency at the time, 107 00:05:09,125 --> 00:05:13,416 which isn't the greatest state, as we all experience on our journey. 108 00:05:13,416 --> 00:05:17,083 And she basically just kind of said, you're absolutely insane. 109 00:05:17,083 --> 00:05:18,083 There's no value here. 110 00:05:18,083 --> 00:05:19,250 I mean, what we've created 111 00:05:19,250 --> 00:05:23,166 is a monster and and our culture wasn't great and, 112 00:05:23,166 --> 00:05:26,041 you know, revenues were okay, but profits were terrible. 113 00:05:26,041 --> 00:05:27,583 I mean, it was just in a really bad state. 114 00:05:27,583 --> 00:05:30,583 But I said, listen, I don't know how we're going to do this, 115 00:05:30,583 --> 00:05:32,583 but that's that's the goal. That's the ten year plan. 116 00:05:32,583 --> 00:05:36,416 So we decided I decided and then slowly was able to, 117 00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:38,875 you know, get her on board with it. 118 00:05:38,875 --> 00:05:40,541 But it was just a it was a mantra for me. 119 00:05:40,541 --> 00:05:44,375 It was just it was a purpose that I needed to have happen. 120 00:05:44,375 --> 00:05:48,125 And whether I was going to stay involved or whether I was 121 00:05:48,125 --> 00:05:52,041 going to stay owning the agency and exit at that time, 122 00:05:52,041 --> 00:05:55,708 or we sell it to the the employees or we sell it to somebody else. 123 00:05:55,708 --> 00:05:56,083 I mean, 124 00:05:56,083 --> 00:05:59,416 but the objective would be for me to have a what's next and move on. 125 00:05:59,416 --> 00:06:02,541 And and so that was a very ambitious goal. 126 00:06:02,541 --> 00:06:04,583 And we've been set not only the date 127 00:06:04,583 --> 00:06:06,750 and the time, but also the the number. 128 00:06:07,041 --> 00:06:09,250 And I'm really glad to say that 129 00:06:09,958 --> 00:06:13,833 when we exited on May 12th, a day before 130 00:06:15,291 --> 00:06:17,541 May 13th, which was ironically my birthday, 131 00:06:18,291 --> 00:06:21,333 but a year before, a year earlier as well, and for more 132 00:06:21,333 --> 00:06:23,375 than what we originally threw out there, 133 00:06:23,375 --> 00:06:26,125 which was just a tremendous kind of a 134 00:06:27,208 --> 00:06:29,750 realization that, you know, you can set big goals 135 00:06:29,750 --> 00:06:31,833 and they can be really far into the future. 136 00:06:31,833 --> 00:06:34,166 But I think it's the 137 00:06:34,166 --> 00:06:36,625 it's the it's the process of setting that and just 138 00:06:36,791 --> 00:06:39,750 relentlessly figuring out I'm not going to worry about the House yet. 139 00:06:39,750 --> 00:06:41,791 I'm just going to know that this will happen in the future. 140 00:06:41,791 --> 00:06:44,333 And I think things just kind of align when you do that. 141 00:06:44,875 --> 00:06:47,958 Yeah, that's the vision role. 142 00:06:48,250 --> 00:06:50,958 It's a to live as if it becomes. 143 00:06:50,958 --> 00:06:52,916 Yeah, that's amazing. 144 00:06:52,916 --> 00:06:54,708 Congratulations on the sale. 145 00:06:54,708 --> 00:06:58,000 The I want to give people a little bit of color. 146 00:06:59,375 --> 00:07:01,291 What was the profile of Mojo 147 00:07:01,291 --> 00:07:03,708 at the time and what's the profile of Gravity Global. 148 00:07:04,625 --> 00:07:08,541 Yeah you know team size primary services that that kind of stuff. 149 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,708 Sure. So Mojo evolved over the years. 150 00:07:11,958 --> 00:07:14,583 We had some pretty big 151 00:07:14,583 --> 00:07:18,500 what I call kind of quantum leaps mojo in the in the early days 152 00:07:18,500 --> 00:07:23,833 and 2011, ten, 11, 12 even we were we were a project shop. 153 00:07:23,833 --> 00:07:27,500 We were working month to month, you know, trying to earn revenue 154 00:07:27,500 --> 00:07:31,708 like the best you can from project, you know, cash flow, if you will, 155 00:07:31,708 --> 00:07:33,291 and just knew there was a better way. 156 00:07:33,291 --> 00:07:36,541 So the first big quantum leap for us was to decide 157 00:07:36,541 --> 00:07:39,750 to go inbound and in obviously go HubSpot. 158 00:07:39,750 --> 00:07:42,625 And, and that was, that was a big moment for us 159 00:07:42,625 --> 00:07:46,041 and that took us into the B2B space, 160 00:07:46,791 --> 00:07:49,250 which then over the following many years, 161 00:07:49,250 --> 00:07:51,791 probably up to the time we talked in 15 or 16, 162 00:07:52,583 --> 00:07:55,458 we made another kind of our second big quantum leap, 163 00:07:55,458 --> 00:07:58,958 which was to really go all in on account based marketing, 164 00:07:58,958 --> 00:08:01,000 which is, in my opinion, 165 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,958 the best strategy you can take if you're dealing with B2B clients. 166 00:08:04,625 --> 00:08:07,458 And that was another big quantum leap for us 167 00:08:07,458 --> 00:08:10,958 and that took us even further and deeper and 168 00:08:11,666 --> 00:08:15,416 and more upscale, if you will, to that in the B2B world. 169 00:08:15,416 --> 00:08:19,291 And so we were really we got to be known for that. 170 00:08:19,291 --> 00:08:24,083 And as a result, when we were looking at the potential buyers 171 00:08:24,083 --> 00:08:28,041 and we were very, very fortunate to have many at the table 172 00:08:28,791 --> 00:08:31,625 to settle on gravity because they are the largest 173 00:08:31,666 --> 00:08:34,583 excuse me, the most awarded B2B agency in the world. 174 00:08:34,583 --> 00:08:40,375 And I think there were totaled 400 awards last year alone. 175 00:08:41,125 --> 00:08:43,458 So it's it's tremendous. And so 176 00:08:44,458 --> 00:08:46,541 we knew they could take our account based 177 00:08:46,541 --> 00:08:49,708 marketing processes and clients and we could apply that too much 178 00:08:50,625 --> 00:08:55,166 to already installed clients, which was a really nice fit for 179 00:08:55,708 --> 00:08:58,125 for both of us, because our team was completely bought in. 180 00:08:58,125 --> 00:09:01,583 And when I say the first decision was, is it good for mojo makers? 181 00:09:01,583 --> 00:09:04,291 Was it good for their careers? Can they advance? Can they grow? 182 00:09:04,291 --> 00:09:07,416 Can they not just grow from where? 183 00:09:07,416 --> 00:09:09,083 From a career perspective now 184 00:09:09,083 --> 00:09:12,208 they can work anywhere in the world and most likely walk 185 00:09:12,208 --> 00:09:14,666 into a gravity global office, which is which is tremendous. 186 00:09:14,666 --> 00:09:15,958 It's really nice to be able to 187 00:09:15,958 --> 00:09:20,291 to offer that to them and practice the skill that we help develop 188 00:09:20,291 --> 00:09:23,541 over time, which is in the account based marketing strategy space. 189 00:09:24,750 --> 00:09:28,708 That that's awesome. 190 00:09:28,708 --> 00:09:31,958 Why were there so many bidders for module Media Lab? 191 00:09:31,958 --> 00:09:35,750 So was this a very like process working with a broker 192 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,083 to go through the exit process, or was it all in Mount? 193 00:09:39,083 --> 00:09:40,125 What did that look like? 194 00:09:40,125 --> 00:09:43,791 Yeah, this it was we found a partner 195 00:09:43,791 --> 00:09:48,375 that really specialized in working in the agency space and 196 00:09:49,375 --> 00:09:52,666 got to understand how Mojo was run 197 00:09:53,250 --> 00:09:57,583 beyond just the digital space, but how we were run as a business. 198 00:09:57,583 --> 00:10:00,833 It was really important for Nicole and I over the past 199 00:10:00,833 --> 00:10:02,041 many, many years 200 00:10:02,041 --> 00:10:06,000 to really teach financial literacy to everybody in the business. 201 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,875 And we wanted them to understand how we made money, 202 00:10:08,875 --> 00:10:11,666 how we lost money, how how the business ran right. 203 00:10:12,083 --> 00:10:14,583 And so I say that because 204 00:10:15,666 --> 00:10:18,916 we just we we were in the digital marketing space. 205 00:10:19,166 --> 00:10:21,541 We just happened to be there, but we were all business owners. 206 00:10:21,541 --> 00:10:23,208 We could take what we've learned 207 00:10:23,208 --> 00:10:25,708 from running a business and apply it almost any business. 208 00:10:25,708 --> 00:10:29,333 So the agency was well run from a 209 00:10:29,916 --> 00:10:33,166 business management perspective and and everybody in the business 210 00:10:33,166 --> 00:10:35,666 was very aligned to how to 211 00:10:36,958 --> 00:10:39,416 produce the most 212 00:10:40,250 --> 00:10:42,083 performance out of the business 213 00:10:42,083 --> 00:10:45,250 from a profitability, from a top line and bottom line perspective. 214 00:10:45,708 --> 00:10:47,125 And they really like that. 215 00:10:47,125 --> 00:10:51,375 They a lot of the buyers we talked to just liked how well-run 216 00:10:51,375 --> 00:10:53,958 the business was and how they could potentially scale that. 217 00:10:53,958 --> 00:10:58,791 And it was almost like intrinsic value was it was value. 218 00:10:58,791 --> 00:11:02,250 You really can't put a number on, but there was value there beyond 219 00:11:02,666 --> 00:11:05,666 the typical value measures of the business to how 220 00:11:05,666 --> 00:11:08,500 they could apply that to now a much, much larger agency. 221 00:11:08,666 --> 00:11:09,833 Yeah, I think 222 00:11:09,833 --> 00:11:13,250 and I mean, just for listeners to know, like I've had a chance to, 223 00:11:13,666 --> 00:11:15,916 to see how you run the business 224 00:11:15,916 --> 00:11:17,666 just through working with with you guys. 225 00:11:17,666 --> 00:11:19,791 Well you still had the agency 226 00:11:19,791 --> 00:11:23,625 and your kind of obsession with data 227 00:11:24,083 --> 00:11:27,750 and with like just having transparency around 228 00:11:28,083 --> 00:11:31,166 is this like is there a dashboard that shows me, you know, where 229 00:11:31,166 --> 00:11:32,875 where are we from growth perspective, where are we from? 230 00:11:32,875 --> 00:11:35,250 A delivery package or an operations perspective 231 00:11:35,833 --> 00:11:39,125 is abnormal in the agency's face. 232 00:11:39,125 --> 00:11:42,333 And I wish that every one of our clients looked like 233 00:11:42,500 --> 00:11:46,375 you had that same drive for, Hey, I actually want to know how 234 00:11:46,375 --> 00:11:48,000 this is run. But that led to 235 00:11:49,083 --> 00:11:50,750 and you kind of I mean, 236 00:11:50,750 --> 00:11:53,083 you really chipped away over the years to like, 237 00:11:53,208 --> 00:11:55,166 how do we get a number four? That's how do we quantify this? 238 00:11:55,166 --> 00:11:58,583 How do we quantify this and learn on what this what this? 239 00:11:58,583 --> 00:11:59,666 And so like 240 00:12:01,583 --> 00:12:03,291 and so that that's really cool to hear you say. 241 00:12:03,291 --> 00:12:04,708 Like, there is a lot of sophistication 242 00:12:04,708 --> 00:12:06,708 there that wasn't just kind of wrapped up in your 243 00:12:06,708 --> 00:12:10,250 I think the coolest part to me about the whole story 244 00:12:10,250 --> 00:12:13,708 and way that you in the career in the firm is 245 00:12:13,708 --> 00:12:15,458 it wasn't just kind of data hoarding 246 00:12:15,458 --> 00:12:18,416 so that you had numbers but the transparency side 247 00:12:18,416 --> 00:12:21,875 and teaching members of the team how to think about and understand 248 00:12:22,375 --> 00:12:24,875 what running a healthy business looks like. 249 00:12:24,875 --> 00:12:26,541 You really nailed it at the end there. 250 00:12:26,541 --> 00:12:27,875 And that is the teaching part. 251 00:12:27,875 --> 00:12:31,916 And data is one thing we we just couldn't get our hands 252 00:12:31,916 --> 00:12:36,500 on enough measurables or data, but that really wasn't the end goal. 253 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:38,583 The end goal was to provide the insights 254 00:12:38,583 --> 00:12:40,583 that the data was telling us right. 255 00:12:40,583 --> 00:12:42,833 And hence the teaching part and, 256 00:12:42,833 --> 00:12:46,291 you know, the insights, not so much for our clients. 257 00:12:46,291 --> 00:12:47,708 I think too many agency owners 258 00:12:47,708 --> 00:12:49,291 build their agency for their clients 259 00:12:49,291 --> 00:12:50,000 and they don't build 260 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,333 the agency for themselves to get the data for themselves, 261 00:12:53,333 --> 00:12:56,333 how to run their agency first, then to make good client decisions. 262 00:12:56,333 --> 00:12:59,166 So we just try to collect all that information. 263 00:12:59,166 --> 00:13:00,791 We weren't the best at it. 264 00:13:00,791 --> 00:13:04,375 We just try to learn day to day and make the best decisions 265 00:13:04,375 --> 00:13:08,250 we could based on the information, but mostly how to inspire 266 00:13:08,250 --> 00:13:11,333 and empower all the mojo makers with the information. 267 00:13:11,333 --> 00:13:15,458 Teach them how to get insights from this information 268 00:13:15,458 --> 00:13:19,250 so they can make the best decisions for themselves. 269 00:13:19,250 --> 00:13:20,875 Because if you're working in the 270 00:13:20,875 --> 00:13:24,708 in the B2B, particularly space, but any space, really B2B space 271 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:27,958 and you whether you're a front end programmer 272 00:13:27,958 --> 00:13:31,583 or a content creator or visual designer, whatever you do, 273 00:13:31,833 --> 00:13:35,416 if you know how a business is run, if you're taught how the business 274 00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:37,708 is being managed, 275 00:13:37,708 --> 00:13:39,916 then you're going to be a better resource for your clients. 276 00:13:40,333 --> 00:13:41,000 Well, we would say 277 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,291 all the time is we are an expense on our clients PNL Right. 278 00:13:45,625 --> 00:13:46,833 So first of all, we had to explain 279 00:13:46,833 --> 00:13:48,875 what a PNL was, a profit loss statement. 280 00:13:48,875 --> 00:13:50,666 We have to explain what an expense is 281 00:13:50,666 --> 00:13:52,708 and we had to explain what a variable expense is. 282 00:13:53,125 --> 00:13:54,291 We had to drill down into 283 00:13:54,291 --> 00:13:58,500 what SGMD is and what sales and marketing expenses are on a 284 00:13:58,916 --> 00:14:02,916 when they got to understand that how our business ran, how well we 285 00:14:03,291 --> 00:14:07,791 we tried to explain how it ran and let them make their own decisions. 286 00:14:07,791 --> 00:14:10,500 I was result it put more value 287 00:14:11,333 --> 00:14:15,458 on the the the quality we needed to deliver for our clients. 288 00:14:15,458 --> 00:14:20,250 So we stayed an expense there and and be able to just speak 289 00:14:20,250 --> 00:14:24,208 business, talk first and then talk digital marketing talk second. 290 00:14:24,875 --> 00:14:25,541 Right. 291 00:14:26,041 --> 00:14:29,750 So we're already getting into one of the key things 292 00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:32,875 that allowed you to achieve your goal ahead of schedule and 293 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,333 above budget. 294 00:14:35,333 --> 00:14:40,041 Above, above, above target is a budget is normally not a good word, 295 00:14:40,041 --> 00:14:43,875 but in this case it generates a billion. 296 00:14:43,875 --> 00:14:48,291 But so that, you know, mode was not the only business 297 00:14:48,291 --> 00:14:49,875 that you and Nicole have run. 298 00:14:49,875 --> 00:14:50,333 You've 299 00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:52,166 you know, we've talked a little bit in the past, 300 00:14:52,166 --> 00:14:54,000 so that's another ventures and cool stuff 301 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,375 that you've been anti panache preneur for a long time 302 00:14:59,250 --> 00:15:01,541 but what else happened like 303 00:15:02,250 --> 00:15:03,958 paint a picture for us of if you had to take 304 00:15:03,958 --> 00:15:06,500 these last ten years from you making that commitment 305 00:15:06,625 --> 00:15:10,625 to actually realizing that that dream other than the data side 306 00:15:10,625 --> 00:15:12,958 and and training the team like what are the other check points 307 00:15:12,958 --> 00:15:17,000 that you guys it to have a really valuable salable asset. Sure 308 00:15:19,041 --> 00:15:21,875 number one I think 309 00:15:21,875 --> 00:15:24,583 it has I mean everybody kind of purchased 310 00:15:24,583 --> 00:15:26,958 if only I'm just going to share my opinion but 311 00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:31,833 it the agency can't be run with you the owner. 312 00:15:32,375 --> 00:15:34,500 I think it's really important to figure out 313 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,458 how to remove yourself from the agency. 314 00:15:37,458 --> 00:15:41,333 And I followed my own process that I kind of created. 315 00:15:41,333 --> 00:15:43,791 But it's it's you know, we hear all the time 316 00:15:44,541 --> 00:15:48,083 and I hear talk about you really as an agency owner. 317 00:15:48,083 --> 00:15:49,791 I'm talking about owners here. 318 00:15:49,791 --> 00:15:52,791 You really have to work more on your business and in your business. 319 00:15:52,791 --> 00:15:56,666 And I see a lot of head shaking and saying, yeah, I need to do that. 320 00:15:56,666 --> 00:15:59,333 But it's really never been define what that really means. 321 00:15:59,333 --> 00:16:04,958 And and to me, working in your business is is the areas 322 00:16:04,958 --> 00:16:08,583 as such subject matter experts to deliver the work to the client 323 00:16:09,166 --> 00:16:12,000 and I worked very hard at not getting 324 00:16:12,208 --> 00:16:14,791 pulled into the semi world 325 00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:18,208 which is in the business and it was really hard 326 00:16:19,250 --> 00:16:21,291 even when we pivoted to 327 00:16:21,666 --> 00:16:25,541 that that second quantum leap into account based marketing, 328 00:16:25,541 --> 00:16:27,791 it was it's hard for me not to get up 329 00:16:27,791 --> 00:16:31,250 to be obsessed about something and not go super deep in it. 330 00:16:31,666 --> 00:16:34,250 But I, I just train myself to 331 00:16:34,250 --> 00:16:37,500 how do I leverage this and work on the business? 332 00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:38,750 How do I create a strategy, 333 00:16:38,750 --> 00:16:40,791 a business strategy, not a client strategy? 334 00:16:41,250 --> 00:16:42,833 How do I create a business strategy 335 00:16:42,833 --> 00:16:45,333 around this account based marketing concept? 336 00:16:45,333 --> 00:16:47,750 And then how to like, create processes? 337 00:16:47,958 --> 00:16:48,500 Of course, 338 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:52,750 helping you guys help tremendously with that, to make that strategy 339 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,416 implementable, you know, operational within the business. 340 00:16:56,416 --> 00:16:59,250 And and that just kind of got to be a habit 341 00:17:00,041 --> 00:17:02,875 where I spend probably 342 00:17:02,875 --> 00:17:07,541 0% of my time in the business and 80% of my time on the business. 343 00:17:07,541 --> 00:17:12,375 And and over time, because I knew this deadline is looming 344 00:17:12,375 --> 00:17:16,250 nine years, a year, seven years, six years down, the road, that's 345 00:17:16,583 --> 00:17:20,125 I had to slowly even take a step further, 346 00:17:21,958 --> 00:17:22,500 working 347 00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,750 more strategically on the business and that then later that 348 00:17:27,416 --> 00:17:29,583 led to working more on the vision. 349 00:17:29,583 --> 00:17:33,625 And to me, vision is is like sound. 350 00:17:33,625 --> 00:17:34,791 It's it's indescribable. 351 00:17:34,791 --> 00:17:37,583 We have to create our own vision, and that is through our core 352 00:17:37,583 --> 00:17:39,250 values, our mission and our purpose. 353 00:17:39,250 --> 00:17:41,833 So we worked a lot on the culture, the business, 354 00:17:41,833 --> 00:17:45,291 and how to communicate that culture internally and externally. 355 00:17:45,833 --> 00:17:48,958 And, you know, it's exciting to 356 00:17:48,958 --> 00:17:52,708 present Mojo in a in a presentation. 357 00:17:52,916 --> 00:17:57,458 And for 30 minutes and not even say what we do, but why we do it. 358 00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:00,583 And that that became 359 00:18:00,583 --> 00:18:03,166 pretty exciting because we even had 360 00:18:04,125 --> 00:18:06,208 people were pitching 361 00:18:06,416 --> 00:18:08,875 apply to work at Mojo because they just loved the vision, 362 00:18:08,875 --> 00:18:11,250 they love what we were doing, and that was pretty special. 363 00:18:11,250 --> 00:18:13,625 And, and in over time 364 00:18:13,958 --> 00:18:17,125 I added another aspect to that ratio to not just work, 365 00:18:17,833 --> 00:18:19,583 get out of working in your business, work 366 00:18:19,583 --> 00:18:22,375 more on your business, but and most importantly, 367 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,833 work out of your business. 368 00:18:24,833 --> 00:18:28,583 And and for me, working out of the business was me 369 00:18:28,583 --> 00:18:31,083 slowly working on my what's next. 370 00:18:31,083 --> 00:18:33,291 So, you know, if you ever 371 00:18:33,291 --> 00:18:36,208 plan to sell your business or if you ever sell your business, 372 00:18:36,208 --> 00:18:39,166 you're going to get asked this question and just be ready for. 373 00:18:39,166 --> 00:18:41,500 And that is what's next? What are you going to do next? 374 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:46,083 And so I set my what's next the same day ten years ago. 375 00:18:46,083 --> 00:18:50,250 Then I set the exit and that was to to really work 376 00:18:50,250 --> 00:18:54,208 on my concept, return on energy and and be able to, you know, 377 00:18:54,208 --> 00:18:57,541 share that with with other business owners and key executives. 378 00:18:57,541 --> 00:19:00,166 And and that was my driving force 379 00:19:00,166 --> 00:19:04,500 to not get sucked into the world when I'm working in it 380 00:19:04,750 --> 00:19:09,208 motivated me to work on and eventually getting to, 381 00:19:10,083 --> 00:19:12,708 you know, the as they say, the four hour workweek 382 00:19:12,708 --> 00:19:17,208 where you're basically working 90%, if you will, out of the business, 383 00:19:17,916 --> 00:19:21,625 10% on the business and 0% in the business. 384 00:19:21,625 --> 00:19:25,333 And lastly, I think it was probably more 385 00:19:25,333 --> 00:19:29,208 challenging to work 4 hours a week than there was 40 hours a week 386 00:19:29,208 --> 00:19:31,791 because there's a there's a psychological thing like, 387 00:19:32,458 --> 00:19:33,250 do they need me? 388 00:19:33,250 --> 00:19:37,166 I'm not I'm not I'm not giving enough, I'm not available enough. 389 00:19:37,166 --> 00:19:39,500 I'm am I taking advantage of this situation? 390 00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:40,458 Are they seeing. 391 00:19:40,458 --> 00:19:43,875 So there's a lot of head and as you slowly move through this process. 392 00:19:43,875 --> 00:19:45,500 But what we discovered 393 00:19:45,500 --> 00:19:48,083 is that as as this process was happening, 394 00:19:48,083 --> 00:19:52,125 it was only increasing the value of the business and I'd like to say 395 00:19:52,125 --> 00:19:53,000 that was intentional, 396 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,291 but it was kind of some unintended positive consequences in that. 397 00:19:56,291 --> 00:19:58,208 But that's basically how it worked. 398 00:19:59,875 --> 00:20:00,375 That's the real 399 00:20:00,375 --> 00:20:03,416 value because so many follow up questions. 400 00:20:03,416 --> 00:20:06,166 Let me ask a 401 00:20:07,250 --> 00:20:08,125 one tied to 402 00:20:08,125 --> 00:20:10,333 what you just said about just kind of your own psychology. 403 00:20:11,541 --> 00:20:13,583 Did you feel like 404 00:20:14,666 --> 00:20:17,875 as you scaled your time down and down and down in terms of time 405 00:20:17,875 --> 00:20:20,333 that you're working on or in the business 406 00:20:20,333 --> 00:20:22,416 and you were working more out of the business, 407 00:20:22,416 --> 00:20:25,375 but knowing that you're running towards this finish 408 00:20:25,375 --> 00:20:28,458 line of selling the business, 409 00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:31,041 how did you come that the feeling that, hey, 410 00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:35,458 like the business is fine, we're okay if I work less and less, 411 00:20:35,958 --> 00:20:38,000 but also I could be an accelerant here 412 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,291 and we could increase our valuation. 413 00:20:39,291 --> 00:20:43,041 Every dollar that we generate in top line revenue or or profit 414 00:20:43,041 --> 00:20:46,875 at least is another six seven we that we make when we go eggs 415 00:20:46,875 --> 00:20:47,875 at this thing. So 416 00:20:48,833 --> 00:20:50,666 how did you combat that feeling or the 417 00:20:50,666 --> 00:20:54,500 the desire to kind of optimize the outcome. 418 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:58,625 It it was it was all consuming. 419 00:20:58,625 --> 00:21:01,000 I mean, you know, I think if there's one 420 00:21:01,875 --> 00:21:04,250 we all have three resources. 421 00:21:04,250 --> 00:21:05,458 We invest every day 422 00:21:05,458 --> 00:21:07,416 and that's time, money and effort, you know, and 423 00:21:07,416 --> 00:21:08,916 we all had the same amount of time. 424 00:21:08,916 --> 00:21:09,416 You know, 425 00:21:09,416 --> 00:21:13,250 money is, I think, quite frankly, irrelevant to a positive outcome, 426 00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:15,333 whether you have it or you don't or you 427 00:21:15,333 --> 00:21:16,916 you need it or you think you need it 428 00:21:16,916 --> 00:21:19,041 or whatever the case may be, it's it's really the effort. 429 00:21:19,041 --> 00:21:22,958 And, you know, effort is, you know, the drive, the ambition, 430 00:21:22,958 --> 00:21:26,583 the obsession, the the relentless pursuit, the persistence. 431 00:21:26,583 --> 00:21:26,875 You know, that 432 00:21:26,875 --> 00:21:30,958 that's that's the effort part and the effort that went into this. 433 00:21:30,958 --> 00:21:32,083 And to be clear, 434 00:21:32,083 --> 00:21:35,333 it wasn't just ten years ago wasn't to sell the agency. 435 00:21:35,375 --> 00:21:37,666 It was for me to exit the agency. 436 00:21:37,666 --> 00:21:39,625 And how that looked, I had no idea. 437 00:21:39,625 --> 00:21:41,000 I just knew that 438 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,708 I didn't want to be running an agency beyond this point 439 00:21:43,708 --> 00:21:44,666 in time in my life. 440 00:21:44,666 --> 00:21:49,791 And we I set the goal initially because our youngest, 441 00:21:50,916 --> 00:21:52,166 my son Preston, 442 00:21:52,166 --> 00:21:55,833 graduate, it's in May of, I guess this year in May. 443 00:21:56,250 --> 00:21:58,583 And I really wanted to spend that 444 00:21:58,875 --> 00:22:01,958 that that summer with him before he goes to college. 445 00:22:01,958 --> 00:22:05,083 So I was like, if I can exit on May 13th, 446 00:22:05,125 --> 00:22:07,375 that's around the time he'll graduate. That's my birthday. 447 00:22:07,833 --> 00:22:10,041 I'll spend three months just hanging out with him 448 00:22:10,041 --> 00:22:11,541 and just kind of really that 449 00:22:11,541 --> 00:22:14,750 that was really kind of the silly little motivation that I had it. 450 00:22:15,333 --> 00:22:17,916 We can we can set goals to our head, 451 00:22:17,916 --> 00:22:22,041 but we really have to process goals with our heart and we always try 452 00:22:22,041 --> 00:22:23,250 to connect the head to the heart. 453 00:22:23,250 --> 00:22:25,166 And again, just kind of a 454 00:22:25,166 --> 00:22:27,208 a repetition thing that we do is habit. 455 00:22:27,625 --> 00:22:29,666 It's like, how can I create a goal that touches my heart? 456 00:22:29,666 --> 00:22:32,041 And so the exit was for that. 457 00:22:32,041 --> 00:22:35,333 Honestly, that reason, it wasn't anything grandiose than that. 458 00:22:35,791 --> 00:22:38,583 And I knew that I wanted to take our we 459 00:22:39,125 --> 00:22:41,333 to the next level, return our energy to the next level. 460 00:22:41,333 --> 00:22:43,041 So, you know, the 461 00:22:43,041 --> 00:22:46,666 the psychology behind it really was how do I exit as an owner? 462 00:22:47,250 --> 00:22:50,791 And I don't think I've ever said this publicly before, but 463 00:22:52,041 --> 00:22:55,083 I never for from the have spotters out there 464 00:22:55,375 --> 00:22:58,583 I never got an inbound certification before 465 00:22:59,333 --> 00:23:02,541 and it was really kind of a conscious decision 466 00:23:02,541 --> 00:23:06,375 to say that's going to pull me in quote unquote in the business. 467 00:23:06,375 --> 00:23:09,458 And I would kind of obviously take it. 468 00:23:09,458 --> 00:23:12,958 I think I could explain inbound and Abby very, very well. 469 00:23:13,375 --> 00:23:15,208 But I didn't want to take the 470 00:23:15,208 --> 00:23:17,000 certification because I knew that pulled me in. 471 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,291 I'd rather find the right people. 472 00:23:20,291 --> 00:23:23,375 It was more of a fun on how find the right people to do the 473 00:23:24,208 --> 00:23:26,666 the how in order to find the right people 474 00:23:26,708 --> 00:23:28,916 in the world that we live in, in the agency world. 475 00:23:28,916 --> 00:23:31,958 You had to have an amazing and have a great culture. 476 00:23:31,958 --> 00:23:34,041 And anything we could bolt on 477 00:23:34,041 --> 00:23:37,833 to have a great culture was objective to to to do that. 478 00:23:37,833 --> 00:23:41,000 And so, you know, if you go to my LinkedIn, 479 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,125 you won't find any inbound certifications 480 00:23:43,125 --> 00:23:44,916 and all this other stuff I didn't talk to, 481 00:23:44,916 --> 00:23:46,791 I was I was part of the advisory council. 482 00:23:46,791 --> 00:23:47,916 I was kind of like 483 00:23:47,916 --> 00:23:51,083 part of that process, but it was more from a visionary 484 00:23:51,416 --> 00:23:53,833 business strategy perspective than it was 485 00:23:55,083 --> 00:23:56,541 maybe what it's typically designed for. 486 00:23:56,541 --> 00:24:00,166 Yeah, I'm not necessarily proud of that per say, but 487 00:24:00,166 --> 00:24:04,916 it was part of the process to say, I, I want to be, I want to exit 488 00:24:04,916 --> 00:24:08,041 and I want to do it under my terms and this is my what's next. 489 00:24:08,041 --> 00:24:11,541 And so just kind of a lot of micro decisions 490 00:24:11,541 --> 00:24:13,666 every single day led up to that ultimate goal. 491 00:24:14,750 --> 00:24:16,333 Is a great illustration. 492 00:24:16,333 --> 00:24:18,375 That's a really cool. 493 00:24:18,375 --> 00:24:20,875 I feel like there's a lot of those 494 00:24:20,875 --> 00:24:23,250 clichés or principles or kind of tests 495 00:24:23,625 --> 00:24:25,708 that who really cares about the practical. 496 00:24:25,708 --> 00:24:27,291 Like, would it have mattered to you? 497 00:24:27,291 --> 00:24:29,583 Hit your goal if you get certified. Certainly, yeah. 498 00:24:29,875 --> 00:24:30,833 I think of that as like, 499 00:24:30,833 --> 00:24:32,958 what do I pick up in the morning when I first wake up 500 00:24:33,416 --> 00:24:35,750 and I grab my phone first or I go to my Bible first. 501 00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:37,125 That tells me a lot about, you know, 502 00:24:38,125 --> 00:24:38,541 where 503 00:24:38,541 --> 00:24:40,958 where I am functionally, right, right now. 504 00:24:41,541 --> 00:24:43,083 Is it wrong if I grab my phone first? 505 00:24:43,083 --> 00:24:43,708 Like, 506 00:24:44,041 --> 00:24:47,666 no, that does not make necessarily wrong, but it's an indication 507 00:24:47,666 --> 00:24:49,916 of where my heart and where my head is at. 508 00:24:49,916 --> 00:24:52,250 And so that's a cool a really cool illustration. 509 00:24:52,875 --> 00:24:53,750 Important. 510 00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:55,791 I want to go to talk about stage three, 511 00:24:55,791 --> 00:24:57,416 like what comes next for you. 512 00:24:57,416 --> 00:25:00,000 But last question before we get there, because this one 513 00:25:01,583 --> 00:25:04,000 I think is probably 514 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,250 maybe not top of mind, but probably something that comes up anytime 515 00:25:06,250 --> 00:25:10,916 we talk about exits and your and your long vision for that. 516 00:25:11,791 --> 00:25:14,083 Did you communicate that vision to your team or when 517 00:25:14,250 --> 00:25:16,291 when and how did you communicate that vision to your team? 518 00:25:17,250 --> 00:25:19,333 Yeah, when I when I moved to the 519 00:25:20,333 --> 00:25:21,208 when I moved to 520 00:25:21,208 --> 00:25:23,833 the the where was I'm trying to remember 521 00:25:25,041 --> 00:25:28,708 I call it the, the, the early ratio. 522 00:25:28,708 --> 00:25:33,916 So the ratio is oh no it's out on end. 523 00:25:33,916 --> 00:25:34,208 Right. 524 00:25:34,208 --> 00:25:36,625 So the ratio was I started, 525 00:25:37,208 --> 00:25:40,166 I kind of say a joke and started at zero zero 526 00:25:40,166 --> 00:25:43,291 130%, you know, I mean like a lot of people are 527 00:25:43,291 --> 00:25:47,125 and I just knew that wasn't how I wanted to live my life. 528 00:25:47,125 --> 00:25:51,750 And so I set an initial goal just to have 33, 33, 33, 529 00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:56,208 33% working out of my business during the 40 hour workweek. 530 00:25:56,333 --> 00:25:58,041 Because if you're trading your time for money 531 00:25:58,041 --> 00:26:00,000 and you're an agency owner, you have a job. 532 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,333 Whether you kind of want to leave it or not, you have a job. 533 00:26:03,708 --> 00:26:05,250 And I didn't want to have a job. 534 00:26:05,250 --> 00:26:09,500 And and I wanted to create jobs 100 to create opportunities 535 00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:10,916 and for other people. 536 00:26:10,916 --> 00:26:12,416 And I knew that wasn't 537 00:26:12,416 --> 00:26:14,166 going to be the case if I was sitting in their seat. 538 00:26:14,166 --> 00:26:19,583 So when I moved to an 8020 zero, when I moved to 80% 539 00:26:19,583 --> 00:26:21,125 working out of the business four days 540 00:26:21,125 --> 00:26:24,208 a week out of the business and 20% on the business, 541 00:26:24,208 --> 00:26:28,791 which is a full day, by the way, that's when it was 542 00:26:28,791 --> 00:26:30,083 it was running well. 543 00:26:30,083 --> 00:26:35,333 And I we stress test that over time to leave for a period of time 544 00:26:35,333 --> 00:26:37,666 and it started a week and that was two weeks. 545 00:26:37,666 --> 00:26:38,875 And I was like, things are going well. 546 00:26:38,875 --> 00:26:40,375 And the first time the stress test, 547 00:26:40,375 --> 00:26:42,875 it was a week in Hawaii and it was like 548 00:26:42,875 --> 00:26:46,041 I came this close to flying home halfway through it 549 00:26:46,041 --> 00:26:48,458 because it was just an absolute disaster. 550 00:26:48,458 --> 00:26:52,375 And, and that was around the 15, 14 timeframe, I believe. 551 00:26:52,791 --> 00:26:56,125 And and so it started really rocky. But 552 00:26:57,083 --> 00:27:00,916 when everybody saw me slowly making this progress 553 00:27:01,250 --> 00:27:02,375 and I was very transparent 554 00:27:02,375 --> 00:27:06,208 about this progress, then they loved it because 555 00:27:06,750 --> 00:27:10,291 it empowered them to make decisions and they had a decision 556 00:27:10,291 --> 00:27:13,916 making structure, our values to to, to do that. 557 00:27:14,333 --> 00:27:15,750 And so long as you're making 558 00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:19,208 decisions around the core values, then I don't care what happens. 559 00:27:19,208 --> 00:27:20,125 You know, you would have 560 00:27:20,125 --> 00:27:21,166 made the right decision 561 00:27:21,166 --> 00:27:24,291 if you if it's not ultimately a great outcome. 562 00:27:24,333 --> 00:27:26,416 It's an opportunity to learn. Let's talk about it. 563 00:27:26,833 --> 00:27:30,625 But I never tried to tell people what to do and that that included, 564 00:27:30,625 --> 00:27:32,333 by the way, the leadership team, not just me. 565 00:27:32,333 --> 00:27:33,333 So, you know, 566 00:27:33,333 --> 00:27:36,333 we try to empower our leadership team to have to have people make 567 00:27:36,333 --> 00:27:37,250 their own decisions. And 568 00:27:38,708 --> 00:27:41,916 to do that, you have to be okay with mediocrity. 569 00:27:42,041 --> 00:27:45,625 People don't like when I say that, but you have to be okay with that. 570 00:27:45,625 --> 00:27:47,583 You have to be okay with 571 00:27:47,583 --> 00:27:49,375 potentially really screwing things up. 572 00:27:49,375 --> 00:27:52,791 And but if people are the right person, you know, 573 00:27:53,250 --> 00:27:55,166 meaning they're they have the core values 574 00:27:55,166 --> 00:27:58,583 and they're living by your eye, your vision that you set, then 575 00:27:59,208 --> 00:28:00,291 almost celebrate that, 576 00:28:00,291 --> 00:28:01,166 because I'd rather make 577 00:28:01,166 --> 00:28:04,500 those mistakes early on and then fix the processes 578 00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:07,333 as a result, get more information and to make better decisions 579 00:28:07,333 --> 00:28:10,916 and insights from that data to then keep plugging along. So 580 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,041 that's kind of the process. 581 00:28:13,041 --> 00:28:15,541 But when I got to the 8020 zero, it was it was 582 00:28:15,833 --> 00:28:18,208 people were just like, just go, just get out of here, 583 00:28:18,333 --> 00:28:19,500 you know, we don't need you here. 584 00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:21,083 And then I started interject myself, 585 00:28:21,083 --> 00:28:25,458 then I got sucked in it again and that was the head trash of me 586 00:28:25,458 --> 00:28:26,333 saying, Oh, they need me. 587 00:28:26,333 --> 00:28:28,208 But it ultimately got to the point where they did. 588 00:28:28,208 --> 00:28:31,583 And so when we set this plan in place 589 00:28:31,583 --> 00:28:34,083 to be pretty much 100% out 590 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,500 just before COVID and when COVID hit, then 591 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:42,208 I just felt the the need to be more involved, obviously. 592 00:28:42,208 --> 00:28:44,750 And and we navigated that super well. 593 00:28:44,750 --> 00:28:47,250 I'm so proud of the team, how we how we navigated that. 594 00:28:48,250 --> 00:28:49,791 And and as a result, then I 595 00:28:49,791 --> 00:28:52,125 was able to put it in place just after that. 596 00:28:52,125 --> 00:28:54,625 Yeah, that's really over the year. 597 00:28:54,833 --> 00:28:58,041 I think the point about tolerating mediocrity 598 00:28:58,041 --> 00:29:00,916 or, you know, some failures along the way is 599 00:29:02,083 --> 00:29:03,958 really hits home with me. 600 00:29:03,958 --> 00:29:05,291 I found 601 00:29:06,416 --> 00:29:09,958 it's easier for me. 602 00:29:09,958 --> 00:29:13,583 I don't know why, but easier for me to compartmentalize that in, 603 00:29:13,583 --> 00:29:16,375 you know, coached high school baseball for a long time 604 00:29:16,958 --> 00:29:19,291 and totally okay with losing some games 605 00:29:19,416 --> 00:29:20,333 early in the season 606 00:29:20,333 --> 00:29:21,916 to try to get the outcome that we're shooting 607 00:29:21,916 --> 00:29:24,583 for with the program or to make a point here, 608 00:29:24,916 --> 00:29:28,500 let somebody fail in a situation because of kind of a bigger 609 00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:30,250 picture outcome. 610 00:29:30,250 --> 00:29:32,875 And that's easier for me. 611 00:29:32,875 --> 00:29:34,208 I've done some journaling around this, like 612 00:29:34,208 --> 00:29:35,250 why is that easier for 613 00:29:35,250 --> 00:29:36,666 us than in the business where it's like, 614 00:29:36,666 --> 00:29:38,833 Oh no, this one client project is like, 615 00:29:38,833 --> 00:29:42,750 we're two days late and we need to solve this. 616 00:29:42,750 --> 00:29:43,791 But right now 617 00:29:43,791 --> 00:29:46,875 this is the biggest thing and get so worked up about that. 618 00:29:46,875 --> 00:29:48,416 But I do think there needs to be 619 00:29:49,541 --> 00:29:51,500 a long term view 620 00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:52,958 as part of that. 621 00:29:52,958 --> 00:29:54,625 And that that's really well said. 622 00:29:54,625 --> 00:29:59,041 One of the one of the things that we followed was if you get 623 00:29:59,083 --> 00:30:01,708 if you get sucked into that, if you try to control the outcome 624 00:30:01,708 --> 00:30:06,166 or you try to do the work yourself or you don't give up control 625 00:30:06,166 --> 00:30:09,416 or you feel like you have control which you don't, 626 00:30:09,416 --> 00:30:11,958 or you want to do the work yourself, that's essentially called 627 00:30:11,958 --> 00:30:18,125 a micromanager and and nobody wants to be micromanaged, obviously. 628 00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:21,250 So we looked at it as micro mentorship 629 00:30:21,458 --> 00:30:24,416 and and as a micro mentorship perspective. 630 00:30:24,416 --> 00:30:26,875 It's like, how do I I'm a coach, right? 631 00:30:27,291 --> 00:30:29,875 And in order to really mentor somebody, 632 00:30:29,875 --> 00:30:33,125 they have to understand how to be a great mentee. 633 00:30:33,541 --> 00:30:34,791 And not everybody. 634 00:30:35,833 --> 00:30:36,500 I think most 635 00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:40,375 people want to be mentored, but they may not know how to be mentor. 636 00:30:40,416 --> 00:30:43,666 So therefore part of the micro mentorship process is to 637 00:30:44,541 --> 00:30:47,166 help them understand that I'm not here to do your job for you. 638 00:30:47,166 --> 00:30:49,791 I'm here to coach you and build your skill set 639 00:30:49,833 --> 00:30:51,500 so you can be the expert to do this 640 00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:53,791 particular role, this particular role. 641 00:30:53,791 --> 00:30:57,041 And so the micro mentorship is it's easy to say, 642 00:30:57,041 --> 00:30:58,541 but what's so difficult about 643 00:30:58,541 --> 00:31:02,458 it is leadership and management are technically very easy. 644 00:31:02,708 --> 00:31:07,125 It's one to many, but mentorship requires that resource 645 00:31:07,166 --> 00:31:10,750 that we talked about time and and that's what's so limited. 646 00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:14,583 So mentorship is 1 to 1 and it's hard to mentor, 647 00:31:14,583 --> 00:31:18,250 much less micro mentor a team of 15 or 20 or 40 people. 648 00:31:18,666 --> 00:31:20,583 But if you put the right 649 00:31:20,583 --> 00:31:23,750 pieces in place, mentorship becomes working on the business. 650 00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:27,125 So how do you create more time for people to work 651 00:31:27,125 --> 00:31:29,333 more on the business and less in the business 652 00:31:29,333 --> 00:31:32,125 and working on your business, not on your client's business? 653 00:31:32,125 --> 00:31:34,083 And when we started to kind of 654 00:31:34,083 --> 00:31:36,958 look at it through a different lens, it 655 00:31:38,375 --> 00:31:40,125 we started to 656 00:31:40,166 --> 00:31:43,083 attract the right people who really wanted to be in that environment. 657 00:31:43,083 --> 00:31:44,541 And that was what was pretty cool. 658 00:31:44,541 --> 00:31:46,333 Yeah, that's awesome. 659 00:31:46,333 --> 00:31:47,708 So what's next? 660 00:31:48,250 --> 00:31:49,500 The question, right? 661 00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:51,583 The big question 662 00:31:51,583 --> 00:31:54,416 that was cool is, you know, I was able to at least check that box 663 00:31:54,416 --> 00:31:55,375 for a long time ago. 664 00:31:55,375 --> 00:31:58,541 And you know, when officially published return on energy are 665 00:31:58,541 --> 00:32:00,875 we powers are why the book and finally Amazon 666 00:32:02,083 --> 00:32:06,208 back in 2012 so you know 667 00:32:06,208 --> 00:32:11,166 I knew that was going to be my what's next I started jotting down 668 00:32:12,208 --> 00:32:15,000 I have a chemistry background so I'm a scientist by trade. 669 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,208 So I'm always experimenting and and testing and retesting 670 00:32:18,208 --> 00:32:21,666 and breaking and fixing and the methodology. 671 00:32:21,666 --> 00:32:23,166 We're channeling energy methodology 672 00:32:23,166 --> 00:32:27,208 back in 2007 and then published the book in 12. 673 00:32:27,208 --> 00:32:30,791 And when it when it came out, I was like, that's my what's next? 674 00:32:30,791 --> 00:32:32,875 I don't know when I don't know how we're going to do this, 675 00:32:32,875 --> 00:32:34,333 but that's what I want 676 00:32:34,333 --> 00:32:37,000 ultimately my legacy to be from a business perspective. 677 00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:39,416 And, you know, I'm really proud of it. 678 00:32:39,416 --> 00:32:42,083 It's having published the book 12 years 679 00:32:42,083 --> 00:32:44,333 or ten years ago and 12 and and it just, 680 00:32:44,833 --> 00:32:49,041 you know, going into the 13th year or the 11th year, it's 681 00:32:49,041 --> 00:32:50,416 I wouldn't change a word in the book. 682 00:32:50,416 --> 00:32:53,458 I mean, it's been it's I'm really proud of it It's it's it's 683 00:32:54,083 --> 00:32:57,458 it's content that's just blessed me across the board 684 00:32:57,458 --> 00:32:58,583 in so many different areas 685 00:32:59,625 --> 00:33:02,625 and and so that's my what's next I want to create 686 00:33:02,625 --> 00:33:07,666 I want to take this and I'm grateful that the business 687 00:33:07,875 --> 00:33:10,250 I I'm not in this position say five years ago 688 00:33:10,250 --> 00:33:13,041 because five years ago I would have wrote another book 689 00:33:13,083 --> 00:33:17,250 out of gone out to Speak and I would have did consulting. 690 00:33:17,250 --> 00:33:18,375 I mean, that's what you do, right? 691 00:33:18,375 --> 00:33:23,250 And it's like my, my, what I value most is my freedom. 692 00:33:23,375 --> 00:33:25,708 I thought it was financial freedom. 693 00:33:25,708 --> 00:33:27,208 But what I discovered over time 694 00:33:27,208 --> 00:33:28,875 with myself, that's just more freedom. 695 00:33:28,875 --> 00:33:33,041 And and and that's what I'm is done 696 00:33:33,541 --> 00:33:37,666 the the the why behind making all decisions moving forward 697 00:33:37,666 --> 00:33:41,208 and therefore it's not going to be around exclusively 698 00:33:41,208 --> 00:33:41,958 those three things. 699 00:33:41,958 --> 00:33:44,958 It's going to be around creating digital products 700 00:33:45,666 --> 00:33:48,583 through a learning management system that we can, you know, 701 00:33:48,833 --> 00:33:49,916 create and deliver. 702 00:33:49,916 --> 00:33:53,541 And I, I am incredibly blessed to get asked 703 00:33:53,541 --> 00:33:56,875 a lot to kind of consult and work with people one on one. 704 00:33:56,875 --> 00:33:59,416 And in that that's just not enough time. 705 00:34:00,833 --> 00:34:04,166 So by creating these online products, people can take them 706 00:34:04,333 --> 00:34:07,208 and then we can touch so many more different lives. 707 00:34:07,208 --> 00:34:10,166 And ultimately it's to energize entrepreneurs, 708 00:34:10,166 --> 00:34:13,500 to ultimately grow their business, to live a life they love to. 709 00:34:13,875 --> 00:34:15,333 And that's what's pretty special about it, 710 00:34:15,333 --> 00:34:17,750 because the technology is really caught up to being able 711 00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:20,125 to deliver the product in a digital form. 712 00:34:20,125 --> 00:34:20,708 Yeah, 713 00:34:21,625 --> 00:34:23,875 let's tell people about the workshops 714 00:34:23,875 --> 00:34:25,166 because I think you just ran 715 00:34:25,166 --> 00:34:27,166 one of the first workshops that you've done around it, 716 00:34:28,375 --> 00:34:30,041 but walk through what that looks like. 717 00:34:30,041 --> 00:34:30,750 Sure. 718 00:34:30,750 --> 00:34:35,291 So we launched the first set of workshops last week. 719 00:34:35,291 --> 00:34:37,625 Actually the week of 720 00:34:38,666 --> 00:34:41,250 of February 21st and 22nd 721 00:34:41,250 --> 00:34:44,291 and to to a founding member group. 722 00:34:44,291 --> 00:34:47,500 And it was I was just really pleased and I'm 723 00:34:48,208 --> 00:34:51,000 I'm my biggest critic so but I was really pleased 724 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:52,333 with how it turned out. 725 00:34:52,333 --> 00:34:54,875 There's just a lot of work that went into it. 726 00:34:54,875 --> 00:34:58,166 I decided to take six months off after my last year 727 00:34:58,166 --> 00:35:00,958 and to fulfill my goal to spend time with Preston and whatnot. 728 00:35:01,708 --> 00:35:05,291 But in my family in general, but in the goal and things like that. 729 00:35:05,291 --> 00:35:08,541 But I needed that time to just kind of reset and plan 730 00:35:08,541 --> 00:35:11,625 and then hit it really hard and in November, December. 731 00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:14,333 But I'm really pleased with how it turned out. 732 00:35:14,333 --> 00:35:16,416 I was in a good state of to create it. 733 00:35:17,166 --> 00:35:21,083 So the objective is to really help business owners and key 734 00:35:21,083 --> 00:35:23,458 executives through the process so that I 735 00:35:23,458 --> 00:35:25,083 and we as a leadership team went through. 736 00:35:25,083 --> 00:35:28,166 And that is to really come up with a healthy Louie ratio 737 00:35:28,375 --> 00:35:29,541 using return on energy. 738 00:35:29,541 --> 00:35:32,750 And that is again the ratio of working out on or in your business. 739 00:35:32,750 --> 00:35:36,500 And that's step one, which we call the Are We workshop 740 00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:38,625 with an entrepreneur breakthrough, if you will. 741 00:35:38,625 --> 00:35:42,500 And then that is a is a prerequisite, if you will, 742 00:35:42,500 --> 00:35:45,208 to what we're building now, which is the are we masterclass. 743 00:35:46,125 --> 00:35:47,208 That's awesome. 744 00:35:47,541 --> 00:35:50,750 If folks want to check it out, what's the wish we send? 745 00:35:51,583 --> 00:35:51,958 Yeah. 746 00:35:51,958 --> 00:35:54,000 So if you know for 747 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,083 you know the agency world's my people so I just love 748 00:35:57,083 --> 00:36:02,250 I love your this this audience and but send me a personal email 749 00:36:02,250 --> 00:36:04,125 send it to Mike at 750 00:36:04,125 --> 00:36:07,083 return on energy ecom and I'll I'll make sure you get 751 00:36:07,291 --> 00:36:08,583 a discount code or something 752 00:36:08,583 --> 00:36:11,000 to an upcoming workshop which is the next one is on 753 00:36:11,125 --> 00:36:13,708 March 24th, I believe. Awesome. 754 00:36:14,583 --> 00:36:15,958 And it's a live online workshop. 755 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,041 When we're sure we've got that in the show notes 756 00:36:19,041 --> 00:36:23,125 of Aw man, I could ask you so, so many more questions. 757 00:36:23,125 --> 00:36:25,916 If a few folks who've written books 758 00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:29,791 or some other people to talk to you because you've had that, 759 00:36:30,416 --> 00:36:32,458 you know, you've fought through all this stuff 760 00:36:32,958 --> 00:36:35,375 hundreds of times before. 761 00:36:35,833 --> 00:36:38,416 And so the ability to then articulate and communicate it 762 00:36:39,416 --> 00:36:41,125 is super, super helpful. 763 00:36:41,125 --> 00:36:41,708 So I appreciate 764 00:36:41,708 --> 00:36:44,791 you want to come come back on, share your story again. 765 00:36:45,250 --> 00:36:48,500 Congratulations again on the on the exit and on the transition. 766 00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:49,833 And on stage three, 767 00:36:49,833 --> 00:36:52,791 I'm excited to see and follow your journey as you keep moving. 768 00:36:52,791 --> 00:36:54,416 But but thanks for joining us today. 769 00:36:54,416 --> 00:36:58,916 Let's do it again in 2028 and see see what we're after. 770 00:36:59,875 --> 00:37:00,958 It's been great great. 771 00:37:00,958 --> 00:37:01,916 And you guys have been 772 00:37:01,916 --> 00:37:05,333 an incredible resource for us along the journey. 773 00:37:05,333 --> 00:37:07,250 And you see, you know, 774 00:37:07,250 --> 00:37:09,333 couldn't have done a lot of this without you and your team. 775 00:37:09,333 --> 00:37:11,958 So that very grateful for that as well. 776 00:37:11,958 --> 00:37:13,416 Yeah, that's awesome. Cool. 777 00:37:13,416 --> 00:37:15,291 All right. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate it. 778 00:37:15,291 --> 00:37:23,833 Appreciate you.