1 00:00:06,359 --> 00:00:10,910 Hi everyone welcome to the still to be determined podcast. This is the podcast that follows 2 00:00:10,910 --> 00:00:16,150 up on topics from the Youtube channel undecided with Matt ferrell I as you may know already 3 00:00:16,150 --> 00:00:20,250 am not Matt ferrell I'm sean ferrell I'm Matt's older brother I'm a writer and I'll be asking 4 00:00:20,250 --> 00:00:23,112 the questions with me is of course matt. Hello. 5 00:00:23,112 --> 00:00:32,230 Matt say hello. We also have a another guest with us today. It's rob van der weil rob say 6 00:00:32,230 --> 00:00:40,880 hi and people who are regular listeners or viewers are probably scratching their heads 7 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,840 saying. Hi there Nice to be here. 8 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:50,239 Matt sean it's usually just 2 bald men. We're branching out. We're trying to bring in all 9 00:00:50,239 --> 00:00:58,079 the bald men. So and rob is here because he lended a hand in crafting the episode with 10 00:00:58,079 --> 00:00:59,079 matt. How it's 3 11 00:00:59,079 --> 00:01:02,450 So he has another perspective to add to the conversation and we're looking forward to 12 00:01:02,450 --> 00:01:07,290 talking to him about this today's episode we're going to be focusing on Matt's most 13 00:01:07,290 --> 00:01:13,700 recent episode which was titled solar panels plus farming question Mark agrovoltaics explained. 14 00:01:13,700 --> 00:01:19,450 Always a question mark. And this was from October Fifth Twenty Twenty 15 00:01:19,450 --> 00:01:25,830 one and right off the bat I saw in the comments there was a lot of very positive response 16 00:01:25,830 --> 00:01:35,090 to this. This is an idea that really seems to hit a ah, an intersection of needs. 17 00:01:35,090 --> 00:01:39,980 Yeah. In a very unique Way. So The public response 18 00:01:39,980 --> 00:01:47,659 seems to be This is great. But as you point out, there's a lot of pressure pushing back 19 00:01:47,659 --> 00:01:54,400 the other direction from people who are concerned about things changing in their environment 20 00:01:54,400 --> 00:02:00,810 where they live. In ways that might impact their lives and sadly governmental bureaucracy 21 00:02:00,810 --> 00:02:05,920 which just hasn't caught up to being able to bring this into communities in a way that 22 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:14,849 makes sense and I'm wondering from both of you. Do you get a sense that those 2 things. 23 00:02:14,849 --> 00:02:20,250 Are actually 1 thing is there public pressure being put on politicians to keep things the 24 00:02:20,250 --> 00:02:29,780 way they are or is there a lack of movement by government that is allowing for concretized 25 00:02:29,780 --> 00:02:33,650 thinking to stay in place. Here's what you think rob. 26 00:02:33,650 --> 00:02:41,390 Well it it I think it depends on where you live where I live our governments especially 27 00:02:41,390 --> 00:02:47,040 in the in the Eu are actually very open to these kinds of Concepts but they struggle 28 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:55,350 to give this these concepts a proper place and it has all. All to do with current regulations 29 00:02:55,350 --> 00:03:03,310 and current ways of land use and and the way that we even work with them you you might 30 00:03:03,310 --> 00:03:10,470 have seen in in in the video that there is some regulation that the Eu has. That actually 31 00:03:10,470 --> 00:03:18,459 subsidizes land use for agriculture and if if you put something else on that land that 32 00:03:18,459 --> 00:03:28,820 subsidy that that might go away so it's a thorny subject there at that at that point. 33 00:03:28,820 --> 00:03:31,300 Um, yeah. But I guess that in other places in the world 34 00:03:31,300 --> 00:03:36,450 that it's an entirely different ball game. Yeah I think here in the Us. It's mainly the 35 00:03:36,450 --> 00:03:42,739 free market which seems to rule everything here and there's a conservative bent that 36 00:03:42,739 --> 00:03:46,010 doesn't I don't think there's a cabal that's working against something like this I think 37 00:03:46,010 --> 00:03:51,349 it's just a slow moving reality that we're watching Unfold. And there's not a lot of 38 00:03:51,349 --> 00:03:56,420 government support pushing it yet. And do you think that it's a matter of public 39 00:03:56,420 --> 00:04:02,260 education mainly like getting getting this information out in in front of the public 40 00:04:02,260 --> 00:04:06,269 to allow people to see what would this look like like 1 of the things that you point out 41 00:04:06,269 --> 00:04:12,920 is I love that there's a parallel between. High-tech version of farming raspberries and 42 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:18,840 the low techch version. Both of them need to protect the plants. 1 of them is just using 43 00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:24,930 plastic Tarps the other 1 with solar panels. It really doesn't change the product underneath 44 00:04:24,930 --> 00:04:32,300 it really. It solves certain problems like you mentioned. The workers have better shade. 45 00:04:32,300 --> 00:04:41,620 The plants are better protected in case of larger storms. That's a kind of image of what 46 00:04:41,620 --> 00:04:48,110 this kind of farming could look like that really isn't 1 that people would have if they 47 00:04:48,110 --> 00:04:52,219 were just told. What would you think about putting solar panels on a farm. 48 00:04:52,219 --> 00:04:57,520 Right? Yeah I do think there's there's a public education angle to this that needs to happen 49 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:04,069 I was just talking to rob before the call of I just saw a story about in France they're 50 00:05:04,069 --> 00:05:09,379 becoming more of a semi-arid climate region and it's been impacting the. Ah, vineyards 51 00:05:09,379 --> 00:05:14,539 and the grapes that they're growing and there was this story I saw about the Aggravville 52 00:05:14,539 --> 00:05:21,599 ticks over a vineyard and how his grapes were you know, plump and healthy compared to the 53 00:05:21,599 --> 00:05:24,789 non aggravoltaic crops in the area. Right. 54 00:05:24,789 --> 00:05:28,949 And so it's like this has a huge impact on farming in different regions depending on 55 00:05:28,949 --> 00:05:32,919 where you live and I think there's just ah I don't think the public knows about it I 56 00:05:32,919 --> 00:05:36,240 don't think a lot of maybe a lot of people in government don't know about this so it's 57 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,869 like I do think that there's ah, an education that has to happen more broadly so people 58 00:05:40,869 --> 00:05:45,460 know that this is a thing that we should be looking into more. And studying more closely 59 00:05:45,460 --> 00:05:49,839 because Rob crack me if I'm wrong. This is still early days as far as the studies. Yeah. 60 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:57,309 This is this is very early days just just a few years on the road we are with this concept 61 00:05:57,309 --> 00:06:02,029 and it it seems that for certain crops. This is a fantastic solution and for other types 62 00:06:02,029 --> 00:06:10,559 of crops. It's it's just not feasible. It's it's. It's it's not a 1 size- fitts-all solution. 63 00:06:10,559 --> 00:06:17,339 It's a solution that that can benefit certain kinds of agriculture more than others. Great 64 00:06:17,339 --> 00:06:24,679 for that. The the company hunlev which did the did these projects and which we showcased 65 00:06:24,679 --> 00:06:31,619 with the Raspberry farm. They also are doing. Ah, projects with strawberries and other kinds 66 00:06:31,619 --> 00:06:43,340 of berries especially fruits that are originally coming from forest areas and shade loving 67 00:06:43,340 --> 00:06:51,990 fruits. But. They need to have sun once in a while and they don't tend to grow very high 68 00:06:51,990 --> 00:07:00,580 and that makes it easy to to just make a canopy of of solar um ah panels above them and and 69 00:07:00,580 --> 00:07:07,979 it. It. It creates an interesting and a quite stable environment for those plants. So in 70 00:07:07,979 --> 00:07:15,849 that case, it's a interesting use case. But for other for other types of crop it. It might 71 00:07:15,849 --> 00:07:23,800 just not not be feasible to do it. Yeah I was struck by the some of the imagery 72 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:30,240 in the video that was used was clearly you you know you I know Matt you go and get stock 73 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:36,399 video from various sources to be able to fill in imagery and it doesn't necessarily mean. 74 00:07:36,399 --> 00:07:40,639 When you show an image this is a case where this is going to take place or where it makes 75 00:07:40,639 --> 00:07:46,029 sense necessarily some of the crops that you showed things like corn. There are going to 76 00:07:46,029 --> 00:07:51,479 be complications depending on the size of the crop if something is if we're talking 77 00:07:51,479 --> 00:07:55,499 about a farm that is let's say an orchard that is growing apples. 78 00:07:55,499 --> 00:07:58,959 And. Oranges that kind of crop. This isn't necessarily 79 00:07:58,959 --> 00:08:02,229 going to be like well let's just put solar panels above those trees. This is not going 80 00:08:02,229 --> 00:08:06,639 to be that kind of thing. Right? There's There's like Ron pointed Out. 81 00:08:06,639 --> 00:08:10,949 There's certain crops where not just from how much sun they need but also from the size 82 00:08:10,949 --> 00:08:14,729 shape and how we cultivate those crops that may not make sense but this is 1 of those 83 00:08:14,729 --> 00:08:18,789 things we have to study this we have to do this more and try it out and see what works 84 00:08:18,789 --> 00:08:24,520 and what doesn't work and there's also I have a video coming up. On transparent solar panels 85 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:30,409 that's coming up and that technology could have a huge impact on this kind of thing as 86 00:08:30,409 --> 00:08:36,050 well because as as we highlighted in this video which was the the farmer they tried 87 00:08:36,050 --> 00:08:39,759 different types of solar panels and discovered this 1 panel blocks too much light. They had 88 00:08:39,759 --> 00:08:41,529 to use a different 1 that let a little um. Um, right. 89 00:08:41,529 --> 00:08:45,769 Light through if you have transparent solar panels. You could like fine tune how much 90 00:08:45,769 --> 00:08:49,180 light is being allowed through and the in the spectrum of light that's being allowed 91 00:08:49,180 --> 00:08:55,180 through so I have a feeling like in the next 1020 years this is going to get refined to 92 00:08:55,180 --> 00:08:58,649 a point where it's going to be kind of astounding. And some of these transparent solar panels 93 00:08:58,649 --> 00:09:03,690 are already being used on greenhouses. So there's there's a path forward. That's really 94 00:09:03,690 --> 00:09:06,470 interesting here. Right? and I was wondering about that as well 95 00:09:06,470 --> 00:09:12,474 is this heading toward more greenhouse agriculture than what would be considered outdoor agriculture. 96 00:09:12,474 --> 00:09:16,399 Yeah, it. Um, yeah I don't know I mean there's so many 97 00:09:16,399 --> 00:09:20,820 things like I've also talked about ah vertical farming in a different video. It's like there 98 00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:24,610 seems like there's a sweet spot of like you have transparent solar panels that are providing 99 00:09:24,610 --> 00:09:29,389 the power for vertical farming systems inside of a building and all this kind of stuff so 100 00:09:29,389 --> 00:09:32,740 there's. Different angles that could be taken here in different combinations of things that 101 00:09:32,740 --> 00:09:37,949 it's like Lego blocks like but we're at the very early days of what all this means and 102 00:09:37,949 --> 00:09:40,829 how we can use these different things together in different ways. 103 00:09:40,829 --> 00:09:49,569 The and the company Junlev ah they explained to me when I visited their their farm in Babarrek 104 00:09:49,569 --> 00:09:55,589 that they chose for just regular solar panels because those are the cheapest ones to get. 105 00:09:55,589 --> 00:09:58,839 Right. And it's already a little bit more expensive 106 00:09:58,839 --> 00:10:06,230 to create those constructions and they can't put as many solar panels in in the same area 107 00:10:06,230 --> 00:10:12,420 to to generate that amount of energy that they could if they were just solely solar 108 00:10:12,420 --> 00:10:19,610 panels but they just cramming together. 2 2 technologies to see what's what's possible 109 00:10:19,610 --> 00:10:26,189 and of course we can optimize it but just with current simple already proven Technology. 110 00:10:26,189 --> 00:10:32,980 We can already do a lot of things and it it can be sustainable and it it can be profitable 111 00:10:32,980 --> 00:10:37,040 as Well. And that was a real surprise for me to see that. 112 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,939 Yeah, and the the facility that we highlighted in the video you rob actually visited and 113 00:10:41,939 --> 00:10:45,041 the thing I find fascinating about that 1 is not only did they choose the panels that 114 00:10:45,041 --> 00:10:50,529 were obviously the cheapest but they didn't use motorized like movements and articulating 115 00:10:50,529 --> 00:10:54,970 panels because that 1 that probably also increases the cost makes it more complicated. And the 116 00:10:54,970 --> 00:10:59,589 system they have is like the most rudimentary where you could do this and test it and to 117 00:10:59,589 --> 00:11:02,200 test the feasibility I thought it was really fascinating. They didn't go that approach 118 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,140 because some of the other ones I've come across like this 1 in France over the vineyards they 119 00:11:06,140 --> 00:11:10,699 were using the motorized articulated panels to adjust exactly how much sun was being allowed 120 00:11:10,699 --> 00:11:16,990 through at different times of the day and. While that works that increases the cost. 121 00:11:16,990 --> 00:11:19,910 And you've mentioned that rob actually visited 1 of these locations so I want to kind of 122 00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:28,220 take a step backward now and visit the technical putting together of this video rob how did 123 00:11:28,220 --> 00:11:34,160 you come into this project with Matt was this something Matt that you had a project. You 124 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:40,279 were working on and rob kind of surfaced and said hey I know a little bit about that or 125 00:11:40,279 --> 00:11:44,360 I can be a contact How did the 2 of you start working on this collaboratively. 126 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:49,870 Well, what's funny is I had aggravilleticcks on my backlog of ideas to hit at some point 127 00:11:49,870 --> 00:11:53,440 but Rob reached out to me and why why't you tell the story rob. 128 00:11:53,440 --> 00:12:04,360 Ah, and it's it's ah a series of coincidences. Um, and I'm I'm fifty four years old and 5 129 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:11,740 years ago I decided to engage in a bachelor's study on environmental sciences. And 1 of 130 00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:20,660 the courses I did was on environmentally improved production and as a course assignment I needed 131 00:12:20,660 --> 00:12:26,600 to write an essay on something that is related to environmentally improved production. So 132 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:32,670 I chose the subject of agrial takes because i've. Thought it might be an interesting subject 133 00:12:32,670 --> 00:12:39,980 to investigate so I did a lot of research I wrote my essay and um I thought about that. 134 00:12:39,980 --> 00:12:47,190 Ah that that that that's something that might actually fit on the channel from from undecied 135 00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:56,870 from that. So since I'm a patreon producer from the the first hour already. Um I just 136 00:12:56,870 --> 00:13:05,210 reached that hit how do you feel like let's make a video together and well that that Matt 137 00:13:05,210 --> 00:13:13,249 was open to it so I wrote a script. Um. It was twice as large as the actual video it 138 00:13:13,249 --> 00:13:20,820 it ah because I think there's a lot lot to tell about this subject and it was very much 139 00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:26,800 fun working with Matt to to to to get this subject in in in. 140 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:32,420 Yeah, it was it was It was very long. Twelve minutes and even ah get some fun humor 141 00:13:32,420 --> 00:13:41,730 in it which which is not my forte but Matt matt is very good at it and I think he just 142 00:13:41,730 --> 00:13:44,750 created the meme just like me. Yeah, yeah, ah. 143 00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:51,750 Yes, I particularly enjoyed finding out that cows hate solar panels That was my favorite 144 00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:53,460 part. Ah, and that that that that's how it went 145 00:13:53,460 --> 00:13:57,949 that that there was actually somebody who who commented on it in in in the video and 146 00:13:57,949 --> 00:14:03,050 he he thought we were serious so I was I responded okay that was a joke. 147 00:14:03,050 --> 00:14:04,050 Yeah, yeah. Ah, yeah, yeah. 148 00:14:04,050 --> 00:14:10,899 Yeah I may been a little too deadpan in my delivery of that joke. 149 00:14:10,899 --> 00:14:13,460 So that that's how it went. So you went through a first draft and you 150 00:14:13,460 --> 00:14:20,029 paired it down to fit into a twelve minute video um and then you actually visit the site. 151 00:14:20,029 --> 00:14:24,059 So do you want to talk a little bit about where in europe you live and how what was 152 00:14:24,059 --> 00:14:26,829 the ease of your being able to visit these locations. 153 00:14:26,829 --> 00:14:33,889 Well, um, you might have guessed that I'm from the netherlands so small country in the 154 00:14:33,889 --> 00:14:41,839 northwest of europe and well this this particular farm is just a 1 hour drive from my home so 155 00:14:41,839 --> 00:14:47,079 it was very easy to visit it and I reached out to the farm. Because I was interested 156 00:14:47,079 --> 00:14:53,879 for my essay in in having some taking some pictures and getting to to to get some firsthand 157 00:14:53,879 --> 00:15:01,649 experience there and they responded. Okay, we get so many questions for visits but in 158 00:15:01,649 --> 00:15:08,700 ah in a few weeks time we have a. A slot where we invite a lot of people who are interested. 159 00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:14,670 You can come on that date and then we will give you a tour and that tour was was done 160 00:15:14,670 --> 00:15:20,959 just by the farmer but also by the company who owns the solar panels who installed the 161 00:15:20,959 --> 00:15:28,540 solar panels and um. Was very easy for me to get there. So I made some footage that 162 00:15:28,540 --> 00:15:33,740 also appeared in the video those were the the footage where hun lever was not credited. 163 00:15:33,740 --> 00:15:41,490 That was my footage and just just a couple of pictures and and some some short videos 164 00:15:41,490 --> 00:15:48,120 on on both sides of the. Farm and so the the plastic pot and the the solar part so it it 165 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:55,230 was actually quite um, accessible for me because it's just 1 hour drive from where I live. 166 00:15:55,230 --> 00:16:02,329 And I'm curious how long has the farm been using this tech you you mentioned that you 167 00:16:02,329 --> 00:16:08,600 started doing the the bachelor degree was it 5 years ago you said right? So you had 168 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,790 to write this paper when. Ah, yeah in 2017 I started it. It's it's all 169 00:16:11,790 --> 00:16:18,019 in my well I wrote it just this summer and this farm was starting with this project in 170 00:16:18,019 --> 00:16:26,610 2019 so it was actually quite fresh on the radar. To to put it that way. Yeah. 171 00:16:26,610 --> 00:16:34,199 And I'm curious about the growing season there here in the us in the news this past summer 172 00:16:34,199 --> 00:16:39,399 the past few months there's been some things that have been percolating in the news about 173 00:16:39,399 --> 00:16:44,970 how various cities in the us are effectively being reclassified as far as what. What zone 174 00:16:44,970 --> 00:16:49,309 what environmental zone they live in like I live in New York city we are now considered 175 00:16:49,309 --> 00:16:53,730 subtropical. So that's ah, that's a pretty big change and that's an impact that's hitting 176 00:16:53,730 --> 00:16:58,740 farms across the country as as this video talks about in particular and Matt and you 177 00:16:58,740 --> 00:17:05,910 have talked about already in this recording of. The impact in changes in weather patterns 178 00:17:05,910 --> 00:17:11,069 in the netherlands. What kinds of changes have you seen there are you seeing rising 179 00:17:11,069 --> 00:17:15,630 temperatures or longer raining seasons is there is there something that's going on there 180 00:17:15,630 --> 00:17:26,240 that this kind of technology might help mitigate. Yeah, absolutely. Um, we are in ah in a moderate 181 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:37,669 climate here. Um, we we are close to the atlantic ocean and um. What we are facing here is that 182 00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:48,180 we get more hot summers. Um, we get milder winters but in those hot summers. We also 183 00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:55,980 get um more extreme weather more extreme hail more extreme rain. All this kinds of stuff. 184 00:17:55,980 --> 00:18:04,909 So for instance, the the damage that this farmer usually has during during summer storms 185 00:18:04,909 --> 00:18:14,870 was it in in in in in the past decade was negligible. Ah, ah once in a few years his 186 00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:22,149 his ah his plastic canopies were destroyed but now it happens almost every year um and 187 00:18:22,149 --> 00:18:28,450 and and those storms and those hails they intensify. um um I don't know if you've seen 188 00:18:28,450 --> 00:18:38,130 it in the dews but we are now also getting floods here and um. It it the point with with 189 00:18:38,130 --> 00:18:46,899 global warming is that the air becomes warmer and a warm air can rechain more um water than 190 00:18:46,899 --> 00:18:54,080 cold air. So there' is more water in the air and it gets released once in a while. In in 191 00:18:54,080 --> 00:19:03,820 in in ways that we haven't seen for a long time so that's really a benefit for this this 192 00:19:03,820 --> 00:19:11,010 type of agriculture because they can have a growing season in in in summer and and and 193 00:19:11,010 --> 00:19:18,340 an entire. Ah, crop yield can be destroyed just by 1 storm and that's something that 194 00:19:18,340 --> 00:19:23,299 this this typical dissolution helps to prevent. Right. 195 00:19:23,299 --> 00:19:27,230 Yeah, the the other thing about it is I love this symbiotic relationship. You get between 196 00:19:27,230 --> 00:19:32,250 the crops and the panels because the panels can reduce the temperature by 1 to 2 degrees 197 00:19:32,250 --> 00:19:36,500 celsius which can help the crops as the climate shifts and gets warmer and hotter and more 198 00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:40,990 humid and then it also helps the panels because the crops actually keep the panels cooler. 199 00:19:40,990 --> 00:19:43,299 Right. Which makes their operations more efficient. 200 00:19:43,299 --> 00:19:47,690 So it's like this wonderful little symbiotic relationship that happens between the 2 201 00:19:47,690 --> 00:19:53,870 Yeah, the the farmer told me that beneath the solar panels compared with the plastic 202 00:19:53,870 --> 00:19:59,280 canopies and there was a temperatureative difference of seven degrees Celsius So I don't 203 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:05,059 know what that's that's in fahrenheit but that's actually a lot and that was not just. 204 00:20:05,059 --> 00:20:06,059 Wow. So. Wow, that's. 205 00:20:06,059 --> 00:20:10,809 Nice for the the workers who had to harvest all those raspberries have to be harvested 206 00:20:10,809 --> 00:20:21,510 manually because it's a very delicate fruit. Um, but those plants they suffer um much more 207 00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:24,169 heat stress and they have to use. Um, yeah. 208 00:20:24,169 --> 00:20:29,880 Way more water under the plastic canopies and those plastic canopies they they need 209 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:35,840 to be there to give shade to protect them from Hill and rain and those kinds of to protect 210 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:41,809 them from the elements. But also those those plastic canopies they are translucent so they 211 00:20:41,809 --> 00:20:47,890 let the light through. And they still get the light and with the solar panels The same 212 00:20:47,890 --> 00:20:53,880 thing happens but it's it's a more sturdier canopy for them. 213 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,600 Yeah, that's really remarkable. The. That's actually that I say that there's just 214 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:03,289 1 other aspect of this that always strikes me the more videos I do have of and than this 215 00:21:03,289 --> 00:21:09,100 the 1 issue I'm becoming more and more concerned with over time is accessibility to clean, 216 00:21:09,100 --> 00:21:15,360 fresh water and it's becoming. It's. Clear that we are going to have a major water problem 217 00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:19,789 in our future and so it's like being able to reduce how much water it takes to maintain 218 00:21:19,789 --> 00:21:25,110 our crops is essential and the crops that grow under panels like this. They take less 219 00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:28,970 water and that's ah, a key thing that we need to focus on. 220 00:21:28,970 --> 00:21:36,690 Yeah, and they are also a very good irrigation drainage so solution because the waterfalls 221 00:21:36,690 --> 00:21:43,169 between the rows and not on the plants. So those those raspberries they are not grown 222 00:21:43,169 --> 00:21:46,659 in the soil they are grown in pots. So. Yeah, yep. 223 00:21:46,659 --> 00:21:52,220 Right. Ah, the the soil beneath them. It. It is not 224 00:21:52,220 --> 00:22:02,070 how do you?? How do you say that? um it it it. It. It doesn't flow away when it rains 225 00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:07,280 very hard and those those crops still can. Work because they are actually not on the 226 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,029 ground themselves. They are just in pots. There. 227 00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:16,560 Right? So it's controlling the water distribution which is beneficial to the plants as well. 228 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:22,830 That's that's a nice. It's all of these things that are accidental benefits. But once you 229 00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:24,730 recognize that they're there and you can. Um, yeah. 230 00:22:24,730 --> 00:22:30,200 Take advantage of it. It seems like it all starts to fit together beautifully and that 231 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:36,610 for me raises the question of who is the the mastermind behind saying like what if we did. 232 00:22:36,610 --> 00:22:41,130 This is this something that is a governmental research project or is this a university was 233 00:22:41,130 --> 00:22:48,140 this started by. Agriculture centers where maybe they were looking from the side of the 234 00:22:48,140 --> 00:22:56,860 farmer where did this all start. Um, as far as I know this is a commercial 235 00:22:56,860 --> 00:23:07,080 Enterprise So Hun Leif. Ah and the company that we showcased. Is is a a company which 236 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:17,960 is already doing a lot on sustainable energy a sustainable ah technology and energy production 237 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:27,399 and they found it interesting to see if this will also work. In an agricultural setting 238 00:23:27,399 --> 00:23:36,240 and they have engaged with the wining a University Um, That's a well-renknown of a well-renowned 239 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:42,640 University on Agriculture and they they partnered together with the wagoning a university To. 240 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:49,269 To have this studied scientifically as well. But it's It's just a commercial enterprise 241 00:23:49,269 --> 00:23:57,751 trying to to do this and see if they can make profit on the long term. So that there there 242 00:23:57,751 --> 00:24:07,390 was no government incentive here. It was not sponsored by any University It was just normal 243 00:24:07,390 --> 00:24:08,390 business.. There's this potential. Right. 244 00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:13,600 It's it's it's energy companies recognizing renewables like wind and solar. There's a 245 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,310 potential here and they can make more money and so it's it's 1 of those aspects where 246 00:24:17,310 --> 00:24:21,730 this is where the free market comes in handy because it's like it's that extra little incentive 247 00:24:21,730 --> 00:24:24,250 like as soon as dollar signs are seen. Right. 248 00:24:24,250 --> 00:24:27,030 Yeah. Um, right? and this goes back to something 249 00:24:27,030 --> 00:24:34,570 you've brought up in other videos Matt that there sometimes could be more positive pressure 250 00:24:34,570 --> 00:24:39,289 to making this kind of change when it's not. Companies will jump in that direction. 251 00:24:39,289 --> 00:24:44,659 Coming from the environmentalist side of it. The environmentalist there's a certain amount 252 00:24:44,659 --> 00:24:49,909 of white noise that comes with that where people tune it out because oh those tree huggers 253 00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:55,710 but when it's an energy company and this and this ties in with something else. You brought 254 00:24:55,710 --> 00:24:56,710 up in your video. Yeah. 255 00:24:56,710 --> 00:24:58,620 Yes, yes. Question of ownership of the electronic of 256 00:24:58,620 --> 00:25:06,110 the electricity produced and of the panels themselves because of the layers of subsidies 257 00:25:06,110 --> 00:25:14,020 around the farms and if they have to be considered a structure and that would then undermine 258 00:25:14,020 --> 00:25:19,039 the subsidy farmers aren't going to won that. Want that unless the law is changed So In 259 00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:24,429 this case, it's the panels are owned by an electric company and the electricity is owned 260 00:25:24,429 --> 00:25:31,090 by them and they would be paying the farmers for how would the farmers benefit from this 261 00:25:31,090 --> 00:25:35,440 financially if at all. You and take that rob. 262 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:41,210 Yeah in in this particular case it was very easy because the farmer was able to sustain 263 00:25:41,210 --> 00:25:49,490 his business as usual, um, with less troubles in maintaining the structures he needs for 264 00:25:49,490 --> 00:25:56,529 the the growth of of his product. Produce um, so the farmer benefits from having these 265 00:25:56,529 --> 00:26:03,920 structures um his his employees benefit from it. They they like to work there more than 266 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:11,970 they like to work under the plastic canopies because it can get very hot there. Um. 267 00:26:11,970 --> 00:26:17,980 Um, yeah. And um, that that was 1 of the the key points. 268 00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:25,480 Ah if if if your your your produce is less than than than before Why would you even bother 269 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:31,889 thinking about it. And and that's something that the fra institute also investigated and 270 00:26:31,889 --> 00:26:38,220 they said that okay farmers when they are owning the solar panels. Um, they they can 271 00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:45,929 have 2 kinds of products on the same land and they can have energy and they can have 272 00:26:45,929 --> 00:26:53,610 crops. And if for instance, the crop yield is is not as good but they can compensate 273 00:26:53,610 --> 00:27:01,220 with the energy yield and and vice versa. But it's not 1 hundred percent plus 1 hundred 274 00:27:01,220 --> 00:27:07,360 percent. So it it usually boils down to 1 80 or 1 eighty six percent of what. But could 275 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:18,550 be done instead of just using the land just for crops or just for for solar um and what 276 00:27:18,550 --> 00:27:30,600 I found in my study is also that not all farming is. Economically viable anymore these days 277 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:37,110 And for instance, some farmers in the Uk. They have been said they say okay we have 278 00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:42,429 this land. It doesn't make sense to to grow anything here. Let's put solar panels on it 279 00:27:42,429 --> 00:27:48,860 and. Ah, okay, we also have some chicken and some Geese let's let's let them move around 280 00:27:48,860 --> 00:27:56,679 there and and then we have dual use of of this land. But that's not what we call agrivoltaics. 281 00:27:56,679 --> 00:28:02,660 It's it's just doing something extra with it but they just turned from. 282 00:28:02,660 --> 00:28:07,259 Right. Agriculture to becoming an energy farmer and 283 00:28:07,259 --> 00:28:12,419 that's something entirely different. Um, and and there's also it's not just utilities 284 00:28:12,419 --> 00:28:17,950 that are doing this like in the us 1 of the largest aggravoltic tests centers was ah I 285 00:28:17,950 --> 00:28:22,500 think it's called what is it called? Ah Jack's solar garden it's in Boulder colorado. 286 00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:25,809 Um, right right. And it's a community solar project. So it's 287 00:28:25,809 --> 00:28:31,529 not owned by a major lecture company. It's a community community solar. So the farmer 288 00:28:31,529 --> 00:28:36,480 themselves is actually benefiting from the electricity generation in addition to the 289 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,470 benefits. They're getting from what they're growing. So there's many ways that you can 290 00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:42,530 handle these projects. Um, right. 291 00:28:42,530 --> 00:28:51,330 Yeah, the the frown of Institute also says when these have these projects are are most 292 00:28:51,330 --> 00:28:58,509 fruitful and successful if the energy which is generated can can be used locally. 293 00:28:58,509 --> 00:29:01,570 Which is the other interesting part. And instead of just pushing you back to back 294 00:29:01,570 --> 00:29:09,399 to the grid. So those synergistic effects. Um, ah these are the things that um make it 295 00:29:09,399 --> 00:29:13,269 interesting to to to explore these kinds of options. 296 00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:18,419 Yes, and when it comes to energy production. You want it to be especially fruitful on a 297 00:29:18,419 --> 00:29:27,590 raspberry farm see what I did there? Yes, this it's I think 1 of the the key things 298 00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:31,330 that stands out for me is is this is. Ah, see what you did there. 299 00:29:31,330 --> 00:29:34,970 I yeah. Something that could be done globally. This 300 00:29:34,970 --> 00:29:39,529 is this is a practice and when you talk about agrivoltaics it it occurred to me that the 301 00:29:39,529 --> 00:29:47,230 key you you pointed out the rob the the uk example of change of land use does not make 302 00:29:47,230 --> 00:29:56,019 it agricultal voltaic. It's when it's. Enmeshed with the actual agriculture process that seems 303 00:29:56,019 --> 00:29:59,309 to me like this could be done in a lot of different environments globally. But it's 304 00:29:59,309 --> 00:30:04,730 going to have a lot of different types of bureaucratic and governmental regulation to 305 00:30:04,730 --> 00:30:11,500 jump through and it's not going to be an apples to apples comparison from. somewhere in iowa 306 00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:16,010 to somewhere in europe it's going to be each of those cases is going to be very unique 307 00:30:16,010 --> 00:30:23,169 and I'm wondering. Are there some crops that stand out as raspberry the raspberry production. 308 00:30:23,169 --> 00:30:33,740 Ah the the the Bush fruit um, that is. Referenced in that like strawberries where you mentioned 309 00:30:33,740 --> 00:30:39,770 things that would have grown naturally in wooded areas would benefit from this is there 310 00:30:39,770 --> 00:30:45,240 another crop that just stands out as like this is clearly a crop that might benefit 311 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:52,250 from this like how would this. Interact with maybe rice production is a rice patty something 312 00:30:52,250 --> 00:30:56,600 where you could put these kinds of panels around a rice padty and have a similar impact 313 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:04,110 or does there happen to be a crop that it just oh this could never ever work. We already 314 00:31:04,110 --> 00:31:08,630 mentioned things like tree orchards and stuff like that. 315 00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:13,110 That's that's a difficult question but I've been thinking about that as well and there's 316 00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:18,690 1 particular example which is very appealing to me I don't know if you know anything about 317 00:31:18,690 --> 00:31:25,710 cotton production cotton is extremely waterhungry. Um. 318 00:31:25,710 --> 00:31:37,460 And I don't know if you've ever seen pictures of the lake aral somewhere in I think it was 319 00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:43,090 somewhere on the on the asian continent I think it was something between russia and 320 00:31:43,090 --> 00:31:48,669 china something like that. And not sure exactly where it where it is but that lake has been 321 00:31:48,669 --> 00:31:56,210 drained off all water in just a few decades just for cotton production and now it's it's 322 00:31:56,210 --> 00:32:02,289 it's ah a mere shimmer of what it was before if we were able to to do cotton production. 323 00:32:02,289 --> 00:32:10,960 Ah, with fifty percent less water than that entire ecosystem could recover from what it 324 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:17,080 has become so that was just 1 thing that I thought might be interesting so I just don't 325 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,230 know enough about about those plans to. Um, yeah. 326 00:32:21,230 --> 00:32:26,669 To make that judgment. Um I'm I'm not a biologist. So but that that was 1 thing that I thought 327 00:32:26,669 --> 00:32:32,649 ah that might be actually quite interesting and there was some someone in in the comments 328 00:32:32,649 --> 00:32:38,320 on the on the video from Nigeria who said I live in an area where water is a problem 329 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:44,509 we have. We have lots of land. We we need to feed a lot of mouth and this would be an 330 00:32:44,509 --> 00:32:51,350 ideal solution for our growing economy and and they don't have existing grids that they 331 00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:57,720 need to adapt to they can just build the grids around these decentralized solutions and I 332 00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:58,720 think. Um, yeah. 333 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:03,809 For those kinds of use cases and and and those kinds of areas that would be an an amazing 334 00:33:03,809 --> 00:33:09,580 opportunity. Yeah massive and I don't think it's It's a solution for every ah region or 335 00:33:09,580 --> 00:33:13,100 every crop I think I think that's that's nonsense. Massive. 336 00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:16,120 Um, yeah. Yeah, and I think the I think another benefit 337 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:23,130 from this is you're talking about as you mentioned before these are crops that require hands 338 00:33:23,130 --> 00:33:27,799 on they require there to be. Farm workers that are going in and harvesting these things 339 00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:34,700 because in some cases the delicacy of of the the crop itself the the bushes that are growing 340 00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:40,200 these and so it occurs to me that if you manage to make a highly productive farm that would 341 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,610 create more jobs for people who would need to be the workers going in and working with. 342 00:33:44,610 --> 00:33:48,700 You know, harvesting those things. It seems to me like that's another benefit that could 343 00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:54,539 potentially come out of this a less productive Farm doesn't need to hire as many farm hands 344 00:33:54,539 --> 00:34:00,289 and somebody who's growing close to the maximum yield that they can get out of something is 345 00:34:00,289 --> 00:34:07,740 going to need more people So That's another thing I think. Consider Well this conversation 346 00:34:07,740 --> 00:34:10,520 has been Terrific. Rob Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah. 347 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,629 Definitely. Yeah, thank you Rob And thank you for all 348 00:34:12,629 --> 00:34:18,250 the work on the video. Ah, it. It was great. Fun to do it and I learned 349 00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:25,690 a lot of it by doing it so and and there's 1 thing that I would like to add I've never 350 00:34:25,690 --> 00:34:32,920 had the opportunity to actually. Present a topic that I'm interested in or anthusiastic 351 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:43,210 about to um, a half a million people. So I'm um, I'm um, I'm amazed by that so that that's 352 00:34:43,210 --> 00:34:50,680 also something that I find here? amazing. In this in this cooperation that we did so 353 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,610 it was a lot of fun and I learned a lot of yep. 354 00:34:53,610 --> 00:34:56,250 Yes, it was. Um, what are the next steps for you Rob when 355 00:34:56,250 --> 00:35:01,100 are you finishing up your degree. I hope to finish it. Um, the end of next year 356 00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:07,470 so I'm almost at the end of my of my tour but it's all done in my spare time because 357 00:35:07,470 --> 00:35:19,700 I'm just a I'm working in in. Um. And I t consultancy for about 35 years so and it's 358 00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:27,090 it's something. Yeah except it. Absolutely absolutely. And yeah and I hope I can finish 359 00:35:27,090 --> 00:35:32,890 it on on time It's always challenging. So it's really a labor of love. It's a it's 360 00:35:32,890 --> 00:35:36,700 a it's a passion project for you. That's fantastic. Ah, yeah, yes, it does. But thank you again 361 00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:41,930 for joining us. This has been fantastic. So our listeners should let us know what they 362 00:35:41,930 --> 00:35:47,010 think Oh absolutely our listeners should let us know what they think and. 363 00:35:47,010 --> 00:35:48,010 Yes, life gets in the way a lot of times. Yep. 364 00:35:48,010 --> 00:35:49,010 You're welcome and and thank you Thank you for having me. 365 00:35:49,010 --> 00:35:53,270 Like rob pointed out people in different regions have been reaching out and saying this would 366 00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:58,210 make sense here I'm very curious are any of our listeners in that group. Do you think 367 00:35:58,210 --> 00:36:04,001 that there's a place where this could fit into your local agricultural community. Let 368 00:36:04,001 --> 00:36:07,470 us know you can find the contact information in the podcast description or if you're on 369 00:36:07,470 --> 00:36:12,300 youtube you can just scroll down below the video and leave a comment there. Don't forget. 370 00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:17,230 We do have a way to directly support the podcast you can visit still tbd dot fm you'll see 371 00:36:17,230 --> 00:36:22,061 the support the podcast link there or if you're watching us on Youtube. Don't forget, there's 372 00:36:22,061 --> 00:36:27,050 a membership button you can press and you can make a donation directly to us here just 373 00:36:27,050 --> 00:36:31,980 press the join button and join us be sure to give us a rating a review and share us 374 00:36:31,980 --> 00:36:36,030 with your friends. All of that really does help the podcast. The podcast helps the channel 375 00:36:36,030 --> 00:36:40,010 the channel ups matthew. And then Matthew tries to convince the cows to stop hating 376 00:36:40,010 --> 00:36:44,320 so hard on solar Thanks so much for listening everybody. We'll talk to you next time.