Show Notes
[
00:00:19] Do they like it? Are they laughing? Are they like stupid? This is dumb. You know? So everybody just was like, that sounds like a really funny, except for a game. And. It convinced us to keep going. And then as you keep going, and as you build momentum, you just start to feel more confident and the confidence builds and you're willing to take more risks, et cetera.
[
00:00:42]but you don't have to start out, you know, you don't have to go all in out of the gate. Like you can take baby steps to start.
[
00:00:50]
Bob wierema: [
00:00:50] All right. Today on the climb, we had a good friend of mine joined Michael and myself that, Share some of the success that he's had as an entrepreneur talks about how he makes a shift from call it corporate America and entrepreneurship in a number of different venues and really how his whole focus is on his lifestyle and the quality light that he's going to live with him and his family.
[
00:01:16] And it's just a great conversation. Thrilled to have Tim swindle join Michael and myself today.
[
00:01:31] Tim. Welcome to the climb podcast. Thanks for joining us today.
[
00:01:38]
Bob wierema: [
00:01:38] Absolutely. Well, I think to get started for the benefit of all the listeners. Can you give us a little background on, on who Tim is and you know, where you started and kind of where you sit today?
[
00:01:50]
Tim Swindle: [
00:01:50] Sure. Tim swindle, I live on the North side of Chicago.
[
00:01:55] I'm married with a 10 month old as of today and a dog. I went to [
00:02:00] university of Illinois and I've started a couple of businesses and recently exited a few of them and Mon to a new ventures as we speak,
[
00:02:10]
Bob wierema: [
00:02:10] maybe start with, I think your story where you came, you know, in school, I know you had an awesome time doing some travel abroad and then kind of bring us up to speed of where are you, where are you?
[
00:02:21] Took that from what you learned from that?
[
00:02:24]
Tim Swindle: [
00:02:24] Sure. So, my junior year at university was able to fortunate enough to be able to go over to Sylvia Spain for my second semester of junior year. And, it was, I think looking back on it even today, was probably the best three months stretch of my life. I've I peaked when I was 21 years old.
[
00:02:50]so we did it a little different, you know, a lot of folks that study abroad, they, they would kind of go on this journey, this solo journey and meet new friends and things like that. And ours was a little different where we just uprooted like eight to 10 of our best friends and just moved us over to, to Spain for a semester.
[
00:03:10] And, it was, it was just an incredible experience to kind of be, you know, off on our own truly, you know, no parents that could drive down and show up at our dorm or anything like that. you know, we obviously were going to school, but it was, it was designed to. To get out and see Spain too, you know, your Monday to Thursday classes.
[
00:03:28] And then we would go visit different spots in Spain on the weekends and things like that. So lived with a Spanish family, which was also a really cool experience and, no new new Avalon spaniel. So that was
[
00:03:42] not really knowing a lick of Spanish. I know a few phrases.
[
00:03:50]
Michael Moore: [
00:03:50] you know,That gets you through like two or three months in Spain, right there called me a few other things and you're all right. Yeah cause Tim, if, [
00:04:00] if you would've told me that, that you were fluent in Spanish, I would have been answering some tough questions at home with my fiancé to why my Spanish is not as good as it should be after six and a half years,
[
00:04:17]
Bob wierema: [
00:04:17] And so I think go into like, How you found a job after that and all that. I think that story is really interesting. Cause you know, as we were talking the other day, how that's even shaped you to kind of where you are today and there's some, some of those, as we talked about the crossroads to find moments in, in those experiences,
[
00:04:36]
Tim Swindle: [
00:04:36] So as I was studying abroad in Spain, I was having a really good time and I happened to talk to my dad and just mentioned to them, listen, like I'm having a really good time over here.
[
00:04:48] I would prefer not to come back to the States for summer. This is summer going into senior year. And she was like, all right, let me, let me see what I can do. And he happened to right after I got off the call with him, ran into our neighbor at the time who was a partner at a trading firm. they're based in Chicago, but they had an office in London and he mentioned to him how he just, you know, talked to Tim and Tim in Spain and was looking for an internship.
[
00:05:11] Do you guys have anything? So he put a call. This is all without me, knowing this puts a call on to partner over in London. And so a couple of hours later, I got a call from this guy in London. That's like, Hey, I'm Dave with Marquette partners. You know, we're going to fly you over here for an interview to London and think about, you know, have you moved here for the summer?
[
00:05:29] And I'm just like, who's this I've been drunk for the past three months. Yeah. and so it worked out that I did fly over there and interviewed with the firm and. I ended up just going straight from, Spain over to London for the summer. And then that worked out well and they ended up hiring me basically right out of that program.
[
00:05:53]so it was nice to kind of go into senior year, being stressed about, you know, finding a job. And I had one lined up for the [
00:06:00] backend and ended up going, you know, moving back to London after graduation.
[
00:06:08]
Tim Swindle: [
00:06:08] I do. I did. I do. I hope to go back there to spend some time, some significant time with my family.
[
00:06:16]that's definitely a goal of mine. I just think there's just so much that I owe. To travel and we can get into a little bit later, but I've done a few stints of extensive travel. And I think has really shaped my view on the world and it's opened my eyes and I think hopefully made me a much better person and a more interesting person.
[
00:06:36] And I would love to share that, you know, with my kids, hopefully one day,
[
00:06:41]
Michael Moore: [
00:06:41] you know, Tim and, in visiting with you. Prior to the podcast, kind of getting up to date, getting to know each other. Since that time I've just been on this memory lane of my semester abroad in Granada, just a couple of years before you.
[
00:06:54] And you know, the impact that that had. I mean, it just changed everything. The whole world got a lot bigger. You mean, there's, there's more than Texas Michael. I mean, we all do everything bigger in Texas, but it's okay. It takes a while to get out of the border. But when you do it's, it's, it's a big world out there and I'm stumbling around the streets of the all by scene are going up to the alarm, bruh, and thinking about and learning about the history.
[
00:07:25] And you know, that being the, I mean, it's one of the eight wonders of the world, the last Maura stronghold, and then Isabella Cattolica and King Ferdinand come in and establish Catholicism down there. It was just like, this is so much older than anything in Texas or the United States for that matter. It just completely changed my mindset.
[
00:07:45]
Tim Swindle: [
00:07:45] Yeah. I mean, you're walking down streets that are older than our country. Right. I mean, it just, yeah. It's, it's a eye-opening experience for sure.
[
00:07:56]
Michael Moore: [
00:07:56] Yeah. It's, it's certainly changed the way I [
00:08:00] viewed things and then talking about the opportunity to go back. So last spring, which marked 20 years, since my semester abroad, I took my wife and kids.
[
00:08:11] And we went and sat in my old classroom and by the old apartment that I lived in, and of course I couldn't show my 14 year old and 12 year old daughters, everything that I experienced in Granada, but we had a really good time going down memory lane and, and just showing them that. And we went over to Sylvia and had an amazing time up to Madrid.
[
00:08:30] It was. I think carrying forward, I want to make sure that you know, that my girls continue to understand that they're a little bit is one thing. but the world is a whole another thing and it's fun to explore.
[
00:08:45]
Tim Swindle: [
00:08:45] Yeah, it's something I definitely am going to encourage, you know, my daughter and if we have additional kids and then anybody I speak to you, right?
[
00:08:53] Yeah. I am very close with my high school still. I went to high school here in Chicago at San Ignatius college prep and they invited me back. to speak to the senior class. I don't know why they did it. And, I'm still confused as to why I was invited, but I, I took it very seriously and it was a huge honor as they were starting to kind of explore their path, going to college and what they wanted to do, et cetera.
[
00:09:20] And my speech essentially, or I'm studying abroad and I just encouraged all of them as they're kind of going off on yeah. You know, onto adulthood that it's something that if they have the opportunity to that, it's the best decision that I've ever made. And I think what happens is when you're here in college and you've got your group, good group of friends, or if you're in a fraternity or sorority and you just kinda like become obsessed with this little world that you're.
[
00:09:49] A bit fish in a small pond about, and it's like, Oh, you know, you have either the big borrowers, right. So it's like, you're going to miss another Saturday night at cams.
[
00:10:01]
Tim Swindle: [
00:10:01] Yup. Exactly. And I had friends, you know that unfortunately they, they have the opportunity to leave, but they were.
[
00:10:08] Too sure that that life for cams right. Was, was all they needed. And I think it's sad to be honest. And so anyway, I just tried to share that little bit of a, of advice with these, with these seniors.
[
00:10:21]
Bob wierema: [
00:10:21] Well, Tim we're, I mean, we're on the topic and instead of coming back, like, let's talk, I mean, you have, you mentioned it.
[
00:10:27] You have done some extensive travel to help us understand what that was like, what it means to you, how we shaped who you are and who Tim is.
[
00:10:36]
Tim Swindle: [
00:10:36] Yeah. So, so I started off outside of that. this kind of leads into a little bit of, you know, Tim later in life. And, I was a partner at a software company that we ended up selling to LinkedIn.
[
00:10:50] And at the same time I had also started. A board game company called utter nonsense and with the acquisition of LinkedIn acquiring the software company, and then with having things in a good place with the board game company that I kind of intentionally set up to be a. Kind of a lifestyle business where I overhead outsourced a lot of things.
[
00:11:15] Basically I had one employee, which was my sister and it allowed me to, I basically said, you know, I've been grinding for the past 15 years between, you know, all through my twenties. And then once I kind of jumped into entrepreneurship when I was 30 and I just said, you know, I need a break. And at the time I was pretty serious with my girlfriend.
[
00:11:36] I probably knew that. You're getting engaged with somewhere in our future. So I just said, let's do it. And so we picked up and, and went and traveled kind of the Southern hemisphere for about six months. So he did like New Zealand, Austria, Southeast Asia, China, Japan, and then finished in Hawaii for three weeks.
[
00:11:55] So it was a pretty incredible trip.
[
00:11:58]
Bob wierema: [
00:11:58] That's great. What was your [
00:12:00] favorite part of that? Is there a piece that like six out of place or?
[
00:12:04]
Tim Swindle: [
00:12:04] well, I mean, if I better, if I don't say this I'm gonna be sleeping on the couch. cause we had engaged in Bali and that was, so
[
00:12:14]
Bob wierema: [
00:12:14] that was the best part. That's all you need to say,
[
00:12:19]
Tim Swindle: [
00:12:19] but I think, I think Japan would, I would say was. You know, the favorite as far as just places that we've visited. I dunno what it is. I've even before going there, I have kind of had this. Romantic obsession kind of with Japan, I just felt like this weird kindred spirit. And I don't necessarily believe in like, what is it?
[
00:12:41] My wife's Indian. And so I'm butchering this, but, where it's like, you're your rebirth? Right? And I was like, cause I Japanese in a bass in a past life because it just felt like I was at home. Just the people, the culture, the food. Just the energy, the vibe, you know, it was just, it just felt good.
[
00:13:03]
Michael Moore: [
00:13:03] while we're on the topic of you racking up some brownie points. Like, I mean, how did you know that she was the one.
[
00:13:15]
Michael Moore: [
00:13:15] we're not all surface level in Texas, man. I mean, there's a philosophical side to us, you know?
[
00:13:22]
Tim Swindle: [
00:13:22] so for me, I, So I'm, I just turned 40 and at the time I was, I think, 36.
[
00:13:30] And so I think compared to the majority of my friends who had already been married and most had kids, it was a little later, you know, as far as, Settling down if you will. And I think for me it was a timing thing. So I'll say, and I'll say this to her too. I think she knows this is that it's not like the one type of thing for me.
[
00:13:52] It's like, Hey, timing's right. I had gotten to a place kind of professionally where I wasn't going to be. [
00:14:00] Working 80 hours a week at that point. And I could put in the time to something else. So I kind of committed to, I guess, selfishly, you know, I've been selfish if you will, for the first kind of 14 years post-graduation.
[
00:14:12] And a lot of that was focused around career and having fun, I guess, to call it what it is. And so I think at that point I just was, was ready and. there like a little bit of a funny kind of backstory to us meeting. we had met basically like 10 years prior when she was actually interning at a job in Chicago and she went to the mutual party and she's a couple years younger than I am.
[
00:14:39] And so she was still in college. I was like 24, 25. I just remember seeing her. And I was like, wow, who is this? You know, Duffle Indian barrel and that was it. And, but I kind of never forgot her. And then 10 years later, we happened to run into each other at Lollapalooza here in Chicago. And, kind of just timing was right.
[
00:15:00] Hit it off and just get engaged in Bali and have a kid and a dog and living up in Lakeview and life comes at you fast.
[
00:15:09]
Michael Moore: [
00:15:09] No, that's great. That's awesome perspective.
[
00:15:12]
Bob wierema: [
00:15:12] You mentioned the word, like being selfish with yourself. Right. And I think a lot of people think about that and think about that when that comes to their careers, you think of that in a bad way, in a good way.
[
00:15:23] In that time that you were, you know, quote unquote selfish,
[
00:15:27]
Tim Swindle: [
00:15:27] I think it been in a good way. I think I used that opportunity to get some stuff out of my system, personally, just having fun. And then also, like I said, professionally, I was able to take some risks that I think would have been difficult to do.
[
00:15:42] Had I had a kid with, or had a wife with kids and all these responsibilities. And, you know, I made the leap into entrepreneurship when I was 30. And I think there was something about turning 30 that really made me want to do that. I, I always had the itch and I hadn't [
00:16:00] had different entrepreneurial kind of activities when I was younger, but I never had kind of pursued it as my, my only form of living and income, et cetera.
[
00:16:09] So I think had I had, you know, not been selfish, and choose to go that route. I don't know that I could have gone on this path of bunch of partnership. I mean, I don't want to say it's impossible, but it just be, it be a hell of a lot harder. So in that regard, like I don't look at it as a negative. I look at it as, you know, I think it's about, so
[
00:16:29]
Michael Moore: [
00:16:29] if you take life like that, like I have to do this.
[
00:16:32] And I think it's important for our listeners to think about this. Like there's buckets, right? You've got. Your professional life. You've got your home life and your wife, you've got maybe a spirituality bucket may be, an exercise or hobbies bucket. Like I loved your little slogan on LinkedIn and said just a squirrel, trying to find a nut.
[
00:16:53] I mean, it sounds like you've found a bunch of them, you know, but how do you, how do you segment those buckets now and keep them all kind of harmonious?
[
00:17:03]
Tim Swindle: [
00:17:03] Well, I, as you can tell them, I then buy that LinkedIn profile. I definitely am not someone that takes life too seriously. And again, this is something that, that was part of the growth journey for me.
[
00:17:15] I think I was probably a little. Stiffer. If you had known me in my twenties and early thirties, very, again, just kind of career focused, success focused and, you know, had some humbling experiences and have grown to appreciate just. You know, finding the humor and most things, you know, you can be a, a business person and have a fun.
[
00:17:43] And so that's something that I try to do and have a good balance of quality of life too. So, you know, for me, for me personally, again, I I've really felt just on quality of life at this point in my career. And [
00:18:00] I think that it's also. It's ironically, or I should say it's ironic. That's I've also, you know, I guess achieved the most success I've had financially.
[
00:18:09] And I don't think that's an accident. I think that I've become kind of more of a whole well rounded person. It's made me. I don't know. I think I'm more passionate about the things I'm working on when I'm working on them and, you know, touching on some of the, other aspects that you, that you just mentioned.
[
00:18:27] So, you know, being physically in shape, I work out, you know, five to six days a week, obviously married now with a kid that those require a lot of time. And so I think that you. Have, you know, those buckets that you talked about and you can be, you need to be a little more disciplined. And so that when I'm focused on work, I'm very focused on work.
[
00:18:50] And if I think you're only working all the time that. You're not going to be as productive. I don't know. I mean, I just, I think it's hard to use, you know, and so I think for me, was kind of the schedule that I have now I'm more productive than I, than I ever was because I'm more focused and I'm enjoying also a key part of it, enjoying what I'm doing.
[
00:19:13]
Bob wierema: [
00:19:13] I want to come back to the quality of life. You said, talk about you're focused on lifestyle. So maybe go back to that point when you were 30 and then bring us back to here. So you said I wanted to go be an entrepreneur. It was time to make that change at 30. So talk about that change and then what that man and how some of those entrepreneurial businesses came about.
[
00:19:35]
Tim Swindle: [
00:19:35] Sure. So was working kind of in commercial real estate and country production space. The closest thing I would say to kind of a corporate job that I've had working in office, you know, dressing up every day and CBS reports, right. Those types of things. And I had, you know, it sort of dabbling a little bit in investing and I invested in a company with guys that I went to college [
00:20:00] with that had started a software company, a sales software company.
[
00:20:04] And, you know, I think there was just something about my life at that point where I just said, you know, I'm not happy with what I'm doing and this isn't the kind of the path that I want to be on for the rest of my life. And, Decided to, you know, talk to those guys and, and jumped on board to help, grow that company.
[
00:20:21] And, that was a, that was a grind. You know, you go in kind of bright eyed and bushy tailed, you know, left kind of like a very good. You know, secure job to go jump into this, this software startup that had like one client at the time and just, you know, really no idea what, what I was doing for sure. I don't know if any of us did and it, you know, what you think, Oh, you know, we're going to, we're going to raise capital.
[
00:20:50] We're going to grow this thing or an exit for some huge number in two or three years in life. And we're sipping margaritas and, You know, like most entrepreneurial stories go, that just was not the case. And so with the business that we had started, we ended up pivoting it. It was initially I'll get into the details, but we kind of pivoted it to more of a sales software from a data room solution.
[
00:21:12] And that was where we, you know, achieved kind of a different trajectory, but that was, you know, already three years into it, which was, you know, a grind of three years of. You know, not wondering, not knowing if we're going to make payroll, that type of thing. You know, fortunately you kind of hit our stride and things just kind of worked out at the right time where LinkedIn was a big client of ours.
[
00:21:33] They had success with their salespeople, you know, using the product and, you know, wanting to talk about, you know, integrating our company with theirs.
[
00:21:42]
Bob wierema: [
00:21:42] Tim, when you, when you guys, you know, as we talk like crossroads, right. And you were just saying, Hey, we, we were going down this road and we had to go over here.
[
00:21:51] How hard was it to make that change? That like fundamental change in the business at that point you're three years in, I mean, was that a [
00:22:00] part of the business at that point? Or was that like entirely shifting focus?
[
00:22:04]
Tim Swindle: [
00:22:04] It was entirely shifting focus. Yeah. It was like, we basically kind of stalled out essentially, and we had not achieved the kind of growth trajectory that you need to, at that point, we'd raised significant capital.
[
00:22:19] And so it was just like, Hey, we've got to do something. And we. Picked on a particular piece of the software that we felt like it was really kind of like the secret sauce. So we were designed for one thing, but we found that customers were using it differently. Like it was meant to be more of like a, just a kind of very vanilla sharing of, of secure documents.
[
00:22:42] But we saw that how we were solving the problem that people were using it more of like a sales approach where things that we did, like it put their brand front and center and they really liked that. And so. so anyway, so we just kind of homed in on some of those really core. Concepts that, that we were using, but really then designed it to be a sales solution for how salespeople were sharing content with their clients.
[
00:23:06] And, and then gave some really valuable analytics back to the sales rep to understand what the client was doing. And so we, again, just kind of focused on those core elements and made it very scalable. So the original software was. not very scalable. She said it was kind of a heavy lifting process to sign on new clients.
[
00:23:25] And this was meant more, just go to the website, sign up, et cetera. And so those were massive decisions. I mean, rebranded the company, whole new software was completely new and, convinced fortunately that. we convince our investors that this was the right move. They continued to support us. And, so it ended up having, you know, I have the ending, but, there was definitely times there where you're like, are we doing the right thing?
[
00:23:50] I mean, constantly dope until the end up until the sale. You just don't know. But, fortunately it all worked out.
[
00:23:58]
Michael Moore: [
00:23:58] Did that pivot with [
00:24:00] your investors? Did it, did it require like a capital call or anything? Along that line or did you have enough?
[
00:24:07]
Tim Swindle: [
00:24:07] Sort of, yeah, that's it. I mean, we definitely, we did, we needed more money to, to make this move.
[
00:24:14] We also elevated our staff. You know, I think we had realize that if you're going to be a technology company, then you should probably have all that in house. Whereas previously we had outsourced most of that to abroad. And so to hire engineers in house, you know, in the States is expensive, but we just figured that was the right move.
[
00:24:34] And so. We were still fortunate in the sense that like our legacy products, we were continuing to service it and have recurring revenue. So we had, you know, we still had it. We just realized that that wasn't going to take us to the promised land. So that provided kind of like keep on the lights type of capital.
[
00:24:54]but then we were able to convince existing and new investors that, you know, we needed to kind of. Do this pivot to hopefully take us to the next level. So we're fortunate that almost everybody was on board with us on that decision.
[
00:25:10]
Bob wierema: [
00:25:10] Was it, Tim, was it a, a group of investors? I mean, you say investors, is it, did you have five or did get 75?
[
00:25:17]
Tim Swindle: [
00:25:17] We read a lot. Yeah. It was more not, I mean, again, you know, this was a, you know, it starts out with family and friends. Yeah. Because the thing is, once you take capital, you're kind of always capital raising with their startup. It just, it kind of never seems like it ends and you know, so early on, you're just kind of getting whatever checks you can get.
[
00:25:39] And then we did get a little bit more institutional, as time went on, but it was a pretty thick cap table.
[
00:25:47]
Bob wierema: [
00:25:47] So, if you look back on that and kind of how that always structured, where you have done it differently, or that's just kind of the way it was. So, you know, talking about, you know, an entrepreneur now looking at the same type of [
00:26:00] decision, any recommendations or advice you'd give,
[
00:26:04]
Tim Swindle: [
00:26:04] I'd say the biggest thing would to be, to kind of make that pivot sooner.
[
00:26:07] Right? I think we kind of held on. Too long giants and make something that wasn't working work. And I think that's looking back on it, you know, we should have done that a year or two sooner.
[
00:26:22]
Michael Moore: [
00:26:22] Got it. Yeah. I mean, we all have instances in whatever profession you're in. Were there certain things or conversations that are its 20 X, a hundred X harder than anything else that you have to do.
[
00:26:37] And I got to imagine the. The capital call back to the basis is certainly falls in that category.
[
00:26:44]
Tim Swindle: [
00:26:44] It does. And not only do we need more money, but yeah, we're basically spinning up an entirely new business.
[
00:26:53] So, but I mean, I, I, I learned so much through that experience. I kind of look at that as my MBA. And, you know, just feet to the fire. it certainly has shaped me and, you know, future businesses that now I've launched myself. And, I'm still very active. I'm very, but I'm, I'm, I'm active in, like the angel investment community.
[
00:27:18] So. Can I keep my eye foot and one foot in the air water with the high tech software startups, just by investing, not something that I want to run personally. And then I've gone decidedly, you know, very low tech with, you know, my current businesses that I'm, that I'm running. So, you know, especially, I still love it.
[
00:27:40] I just, you know, it's not something that, that whole, you know, raising tons of capital. Burning cash, the hiring a big team and things like that. Those are just it's. It's not for everyone. It's not for me. I've decided that, you know, my style is more kind of the solo preneur, if you will. And [
00:28:00] that just provides a better quality of life for what I'm looking for right now.
[
00:28:04]
Bob wierema: [
00:28:04] So maybe talk, talk about that, transition into that, your next with utter nonsense and what that was, and then kind of the same what's beginning to kind of end in that story.
[
00:28:17]
Tim Swindle: [
00:28:17] Yeah. So, so as we're building point drive the software company, and again, you know, kind of not knowing if we were gonna make it, but also, you know, just having the entrepreneurial itch still.
[
00:28:28] I have this idea with a buddy to create a, a car game, like a physical board games, like a party game, akin to like the cards against humanity and. We had read this article in ink magazine that kind of described how cards against humanity. He brought their game to life and it just seemed like it was kind of a blueprint.
[
00:28:48] I was reading this. I was like, wait a second, like this, this, this is doable. And we, yeah, I'm going to have to happen having to have a. A game that we'd been playing for years at like friends, Lake houses and just, you know, stupid drinking game basically. but we have that and we were like, I think that we can take that and turn it into a real product.
[
00:29:09] And so we kind of moved very quickly and, brought that thing to life. You know, hire comedians to help write content, hired a graphic designer to design the packaging. And, you know, coming up with the name did a little Kickstarter just to bring it to life or, you know, bring it to the market. And nothing had been, you know, much of a success that's to that point, but we released.
[
00:29:31] I, we, we, we put ourselves out there and you guys, one of the big lessons I've learned is that sometimes, you know, the universe comes back to you when you put yourself out there. And, basically the target buyer had come across our, our little. Project. And, all of a sudden, you know, two months after launching, we were going to be brought into all 1800 target stores and then, you know, all major, a lot of major retailers after that, you know, [
00:30:00] came in, came in line because of the, kind of the validation that we got from target and, so much different experience, right.
[
00:30:05] From what we had with the, with a software company, this was very bootstrapped, very lean. And it's kind of outsourced everything that we needed and, you know, but it did, it did finally, or fortunately kind of caught fire pretty quickly, which is, which is unusual.
[
00:30:22]
Bob wierema: [
00:30:22] Yeah, well, you kind of ruined it for me because I thought I was just imagining you sitting in the basement, you know, drink and wine or whiskey or something right now, these cards.
[
00:30:32] But now you're telling me content creators too.
[
00:30:37]
Tim Swindle: [
00:30:37] I mean, we tried and we got into it and we're like, We're not that funny. Well, I think you just need to be honest with yourself about your skillset. And, I think, you know, we realize that there's, there's better people out there that are good with, writing content.
[
00:30:57] And so we initially, yeah, we reached out to just start our network. You know, we had some friends that were comedians at second city. A friend that I grew up with was writing for one of the big, late night shows out in LA and another guy was in Hollywood writing movie script. So it was just like, Hey, you want to have some fun with, you know, stupid side project.
[
00:31:15] And so it worked out for everyone
[
00:31:19]
Bob wierema: [
00:31:19] that tells me that I didn't, my phone didn't rang. So I'm not funny enough,
[
00:31:25]
Michael Moore: [
00:31:25] Bob. We may, we may have to have like a, the climb podcast, alumni group. Come back on and do a whole podcast where we just play the game. I've played it many a time. It is good. That could be a lot of fun.
[
00:31:42] We might get in a little trouble, but
[
00:31:46]
Tim Swindle: [
00:31:46] So, yeah. So there's still kind of the finishing story that is so, so launched that while we were building the software company shortly after the software company end up getting acquired. And the game had kind of, you [
00:32:00] know, really hit its stride.
[
00:32:02] And that was about when I decided to take off and go travel for that six months. As soon as I got back, we had launched a second version of the game. The original is kind of a radar and adult version. And then we came up with a, kid friendly family friendly version based on just customer feedback and like, Hey, we love your game.
[
00:32:23] But take out half the deck. Yeah. Yeah. So we, we heard enough of that, where we thought, you know, the opportunity was there to do a family version. And so, you know, at that point, showing that kind of the concept was, was repeatable and had different variations that could come to life because, you know, from it.
[
00:32:46] I just started to get some attention from a few of the bigger kind of towing game folks that are in the industry. And there was a group in particular killer that, had a, had a strong affinity for it. And, ended up acquiring that, Hmm. In 2018, I believe in 2000 end of 2017, I'm so sold that sold that company at the end of 2017, early 18.
[
00:33:12]
Bob wierema: [
00:33:12] One of the things I thought was really cool. You mentioned is you took this blueprint from cards against humanity is you said, like we read this article. We had this idea. Yeah. I think, you know, is we've talked to other peoples, there's this like, fear of, well, how are we going to do it? Better than what they already did.
[
00:33:29] Like, how is this gonna work? Right. Michael and I talked about it when we talked about, even the idea of the podcast is there's millions of podcasts out there. Like what made you guys go? This is going to work. Like we got this, like, this is gonna, or were you just like, Hey, we can give it a shot. And if we don't work, it doesn't work.
[
00:33:48]
Tim Swindle: [
00:33:48] I think the early indicator for us was that we personally were users of the product. Right. And we hadn't created it. We didn't, it wasn't a [
00:34:00] finished form, but kind of the idea, the concept we had been essentially playing for years. And so we had this. Validation, I would say through our, through our friend group.
[
00:34:13] And so then it's just a matter of, Hey, you know, do we think that there's other people like us that would enjoy this and, and then, you know, there is some element of like going around and getting, you know, you share the idea before you start spending a lot of money. You know, you can go kind of just test your thesis.
[
00:34:31] And so you share the idea with people and you can just tell, like, is it clicking? Are they how they're responding? Do they like it? Are they laughing? Are they like stupid? This is dumb. You know? So, I think just with some basic research on our, on our end, just really talking to family and friends about the concept that everybody just was like, that sounds like a really funny.
[
00:34:53] Concept for a game and just, it convinced us to keep going. And then as you keep going, and as you build momentum things just, I can start falling in place. You know, the name, I thought it was a big one. the packaging, you know, it was just, you just start to feel more confident and the confidence builds and you're willing to take more risks, et cetera.
[
00:35:15]but you don't have to start out, you know, Going after, you know, doing a big, you don't have to go all in out of the gate, but you can take baby steps.
[
00:35:25]
Michael Moore: [
00:35:25] Yeah. Tim, one of the things I thought was interesting, you kinda hit on yesterday. Maybe we can take a deep dive in for our listeners is, you know, sort of looking at it two different avenues, right?
[
00:35:38] You have the high growth cash burning, private equity routes. You can go for the bootstrap. You know, on the ground route, which seems to be more the route that you go. And you mentioned yesterday, that's a lot more fun. Like give us a little color around that.
[
00:36:01] These startups are romantic, you know, something very romantic about starting a startup, right. And funded. I personally having been through it and seeing kind of both sides that, you know, I think there's something kind of nice about going slow. And not, you know, raising outside capital if you don't need it.
[
00:36:24] And, you know, I say that with a, with a bit of hypocrisy. Cause as I mentioned, you know, I am an active angel investor, and some, some businesses do require it. Right? So the software in particular, you generally speaking, are having to hire engineers who are expensive and you know, your overhead is just going to be something that, you know, most of you.
[
00:36:45] I don't know, coming from money that you probably can't afford to get it off the ground. It is. So I saw, I realized that there's, you know, there's different, that's the businesses that have different needs in terms of at least from a capital perspective to start. but for me personally, again, you know, kind of done that and again, for some people, that's what they want and they want the high growth, super-fast paced.
[
00:37:09] They want to manage a big team, you know, they. They enjoy the process of raising capital and working with investors, that group of investors, and, you know, and they might just be very tech savvy and they like the technology side of things, et cetera. So there could be a number of reasons that, you know, it's a better fit for folks that want to go that route.
[
00:37:30] Or, you know, again, me personally, I, I kind of stumbled across this physical product CPG. Doing things on my own approach. And it just, it's a, it's a better fit, you know, for, for me personally, I mean, there's things you have to adjust to. I mean, for instance, I'm, you know, working from home most days, you're not interacting with, you know, at least.
[
00:37:51] In person, you know, a big team all the time, which nobody is these days. Anyway. So this whole transition was not a big [
00:38:00] deal for me. It's like I got to work from home and not see people. That's okay. So yeah, I mean, I just, and again, like the quality of life, there's just, you know, I've maybe wake up on a certain day and be like, Hey, I want to go.
[
00:38:12] I ride my bike or take the dog for an hour and a half walk. Right. I mean, it's just, there's not some meeting that I have to be at, you know, so it's not a matter of not working hard. I probably work harder actually now than I have. So I think that's kind of the misconception is that you don't, you know, you don't work hard going this path.
[
00:38:31] It's not, it's not at all what I'm saying. It's just a, it's a little bit more on my own terms, I guess is the difference. And, that's just a. The place that I am happy being right now. And if I'm lucky enough to I'll, I'll continue down this path. So
[
00:38:46]
Bob wierema: [
00:38:46] Tim, when you, when you're working on your own, like where do you go for advice, counsel, mentorship, bouncing ideas off, things like that.
[
00:38:56] Like, do you have a, a group or do you go outside or, you know, what's, what's that Avenue for you when you need that, that extra support
[
00:39:16]
Tim Swindle: [
00:39:16] so I do enjoy Twitter. I'd say that's kind of my, my drug of choice when it comes to social media and I get a lot of value from it. So I follow. Other entrepreneurs that I just respect and they help just give me bits of wisdom and encouraged me, you know, in ways that, that I need just to kind of keep going, et cetera.
[
00:39:41] And then currently working out is like a big thing for me. because I look at it as kinda like met my meditation time. It's just, it's this. Quiet peaceful, turn off the radio or turn off the cell phone and think so. I called Tim time and I just get a lot of Tim time for, you know, [
00:40:00] 45 minutes to an hour where.
[
00:40:02] You know, you're just able to think through problems. And it's been,
[
00:40:06]
Bob wierema: [
00:40:06] there's been rumors of you on the Peloton being quite the Peloton athlete.
[
00:40:14]
Tim Swindle: [
00:40:14] I do. I am a big fan. I mean, they don't need any, help these days with where their stock is at, but I will say that I am a of, of the Peloton, big family. And also I do, I mean, today I did there. I did a yoga session. I do their kind of strength claim, clock classes. And I just think they've got a they've executed very well from the technology, the actual.
[
00:40:41] Physical product, the bike I've been, you know, in my case had the bike, is just so well done. the trainers, you know, the talent that they have is fantastic. So I think just from top to bottom on the top, that they've just done a really nice job.
[
00:40:54]
Michael Moore: [
00:40:54] Yeah. No, that visualization that they created, where, you know, whether it's a live class or whatever, and you're, you can see where you're.
[
00:41:03] Ranked. I mean, it's, it's genius.
[
00:41:05]
Tim Swindle: [
00:41:05] Yeah. Competitive juices flowing. You know, you always want to beat your personal record or sometimes, you know, match up against a buddy or something. Yeah.
[
00:41:16]
Michael Moore: [
00:41:16] I think the first time, you know, outside of like organized sports, you would have played in, in high school or whatever that really hit me.
[
00:41:24] It was obviously way pre Peloton, but it was the first sprint triathlon I ever did. And, you know, it's age banded and your, you know, your relative, you know, I mean, there was like a low end and a high end and had gotten through the swim, which was definitely the biggest struggle. I mean, I was kind of built to sank, not built to swim and, and then I get on the bike and I'm feeling pretty good. And this lady comes flying past me, who you know, is
[
00:41:53] built twice as wide as I am. And there's a 43 on her calf. So she's [
00:42:00] probably good eight years older than me and just goes flying past me. And I'm like, Oh, hell with that. I think, you know, and I was on a, like a, Oh, I can't remember what you call them. It's called a 29 or, but it's a, it's a mountain bike and a road bike kinda mixed together. And I think I averaged like 23 miles an hour, which was way faster than I had ever gone. And it just pissed me
[
00:42:23] off. Exactly. That process works
[
00:42:27]
Tim Swindle: [
00:42:27] I'm with you on the, I'm going to try Alphonse, I think, you know, for former athletes, if we can call ourselves that, you know, you miss that.
[
00:42:37] And that was something that, for me, it was a bill. It was a way to kind of get some of those competitive juices back. So I'm a big fan of, you know, the triathlon and hope to get back out there. So
[
00:42:51] what's, what's next for Tim Swindell what do you got going now? What is, you know, what's, you got some ideas on the docket, you know, of your next venture.
[
00:43:02] Yeah. So I, after selling the, the board game, Just had a lot of fun with it, quite frankly. And I was like, you know, I'm going to devote the rest of my career. So doing things that make me happy, that I find fun basically, and that provide hopefully fun other people. And so that's, I'd say like one kind of overarching theme of, of, you know, my professional life at this point is that.
[
00:43:32] I will only pursue projects personally, that I'm going to, let's say run for, have to be fun. And so with that, obviously games qualify. And so I've, I've teamed up with, another, another guy and actually to two different guys, to launch a, Toy and game company. And we have a couple new ones out there.
[
00:43:56] We are coming out with a new one later this year. [
00:44:00] And, so that's been a blast and, you know, still early on in, in this latest venture, but, you know, It's going, it's going well so far so excited about that. And then do was fun. I can say it without laughing is, it's a, adult themed ornament company called Pornaments and
[
00:44:26]
Tim Swindle: [
00:44:26] So it's something that's like most good ideas. Was a, conversation over drinks with a buddy a couple of years ago. And we just thought it'd be hilarious to come out with, you know, ornaments and call them Pornaments. That was it. That was the conversation, but it just, it never left my brain.
[
00:44:45] And, you know, being an entrepreneur, there's always ideas that pop in that I think are going to be the next big thing. And. They typically turn out to be the dumbest idea ever. And what was I thinking? But parliaments, believe it or not, I just couldn't shake it. And I looked at, I looked into it kind of right away a couple of years ago, and basically someone would beat us to it.
[
00:45:05] So somebody who had acquired the IP and trademarks and the domain for Pornaments dot com and this was something, you know, most businesses, I would say the name could be whatever, but this is just kind of felt too perfect. And. So I was like, it needs to be that. So I just looked into it some more and realize that they had acquired the IP, but they hadn't really done too much with it.
[
00:45:29] Like they, I think attempted at one point, but they weren't actively selling them. So I kind of figured that this was going to fall by the wayside and they were going to relinquish it at some point and I was be there to scoop it up fast forward three or four years. And I would just kind of check down there periodically.
[
00:45:43] And again, just the idea, just never, and I'd mentioned against kind of similar thing with the game where I've mentioned it to people and people just would die laughing when I would explain the concept and they've even come back to me around Christmas time, be like, you know, I'm looking for like a gag gift.
[
00:45:58] Like, did you ever do that? Ornaments [
00:46:00] thing. And so I was just like, I have to figure this out. So I really tracked down the company that, that had initially tried it and was maintaining, you know, the IP. And I, it turns out that they're a, they're the largest glass ornament manufacturer in the country. And, and this was coming up like a fun little side project that, and basically.
[
00:46:23] Just didn't work out for them. They had a very different approach than I have. So I got in touch with the CEO and told him a little bit about my background, heard it's a woman CEO and her, and I just hit it off and she let me basically acquire the IP and we are not partners. And so they've become my manufacturer and I relaunched the brand late last year.
[
00:46:44] And just to kind of, again, test the waters to see if this was something that, you know, anybody else would find interesting or funny or whatever. And it's, basically I sold out of them almost a month and a half, and I'm going to be doubling down. Not in Dublin, I'm going big this year. So hopefully, it continues to go in the right direction.
[
00:47:06]
Bob wierema: [
00:47:06] That's so good. That is so good. How does the distribution channel work on that? Are you in retail stores or is it all online or how does that work?
[
00:47:17]
Tim Swindle: [
00:47:17] So I'm figuring that out is the short answer, but no. So the previous company, they, they have, as their business model, they have a retail only strategy. And, you know, as you could imagine for a porn moment, not many retailers are probably gonna take that on.
[
00:47:39]
Tim Swindle: [
00:47:39] No, no, they're not a good, not a good fit the brand. And I will say, you know, as much as it's silly and all these things, like there's some very real business reasons for why I wanted to do this business. I, you know, I still work with retailers and I love retailers, but I am, I'm fascinated by the [
00:48:00] rise of the direct to consumer movement.
[
00:48:02] And. I, I feel like, you know, that's just the business that I've wanted to try. And I felt like this is the perfect business to do direct to consumer because there's not gonna be the many retailers that would take it anyway. Know. So. So that was it. And so, so yeah, they had retailers and again, like, you know, there's going to be the small kind of like weird gag gift shops or whatever, but, you know, you're not going to get the big target Walmart order and that's more of their bread and butter is working with kind of major retailers.
[
00:48:37]and then in general, we're going through this shift right now to eCommerce. And so that's kind of hopefully skating to where the puck is going to have a thing that. You know, I want to be on board with, and so, yeah, so for me, it's, it's largely, e-commerce, I've got a website, you know, this year I'll be spinning up Amazon, maybe an Etsy site, but it's going to be all through basically my own channels and.
[
00:49:01] I was hoping to rely on social media as a big distribution channel for at least from a marketing perspective, that was the original thesis, but it turns out that they have rules against, you know, the kind of the rated R nature of theme, of, of things with, with our supplements and products in general.
[
00:49:19] So, so anyway, so, so I'm still figuring that piece out as far as just raising awareness, et cetera, you know, working with. We'll just say kind of on-brand type companies. Let's say like the chive or something like that. Barstool sports, right? Those could be opportunities for distribution for me. that I'm currently working on.
[
00:49:39]
Bob wierema: [
00:49:39] I have like so many questions that probably are not appropriate for this podcast that I want to ask.
[
00:49:44]
Tim Swindle: [
00:49:44] I will say sometimes people's like, when I say the name, they go to like porn stars, like as ornaments and I, that's not it. And it's really meant to be more.
[
00:49:55]
Tim Swindle: [
00:49:55] It's it's Santa's like in his underwear [
00:50:00] was going after a gingerbread people going after it.
[
00:50:04] You know, there's some stuff, a little more risqué, but it's really bad to be just stupid, funny, you know, Christmas care jurors in positions and things that, you know, wearing things that you wouldn't normally see them wearing. I love it. That's so good. Actually. That's why I mentioned that before we got on the side.
[
00:50:24] I just got, you know, so, so last year we launched with just kind of their old inventory. So that was part of going through the process. They had some excess inventory. I was like, just give that to me. I'll see if this, you know, it's something that is still relevant. So we have a bunch of new ones coming out this year.
[
00:50:40] And I'm super excited because I just, I just, they just arrived and, I just teased them on my Instagram feed. so
[
00:50:47]
Bob wierema: [
00:50:47] all right. I'm, I'm pulling it up right now. I mean, I gotta, I gotta look on Instagram right now. That's great.
[
00:50:54]
Tim Swindle: [
00:50:54] I'll be sharing later on this year. That will, hopefully it'll try to think of a way to say it without ruining it.
[
00:51:01] But what's this they're safe, including our president is I'll just leave it at that. So good. I don't know how Michael feels about that down in Texas, but
[
00:51:12]
Michael Moore: [
00:51:12] I think he looks, I mean, if you're in public office, you bet you better be ready right now. You know, Bob, we were talking about gifts for all of our
[
00:51:23] Podcasts guests. I mean, we may have just come up with a, a home.
[
00:51:33] at the show notes for everybody? Put them in stock? Yeah.
[
00:51:40]
Bob wierema: [
00:51:40] Tim is you. We've had a lot of conversation with some of our guests, our own mentors, influential people in their life. I mean, do you have a couple, two or three or one that stick out to you that have just been an inspiration for you or kind of that rock to lean on when you need him or her?
[
00:51:59]
Tim Swindle: [
00:51:59] I would [
00:52:00] say that one of the guys that I worked for my, in my twenties, after I finished trading, I moved into real estate and construction industry. And, worked for dive that I'd kind of grown up, being very close with and he had built a, you know, let's start it out as, you know, a fairly small operation into, one of the largest in the country.
[
00:52:25] And so that was someone that I was close with growing up and looked up to, and then had the opportunity to work directly for him. And, you know, so I'd say that definitely was one. No, but outside of that, I think. The most of mine come from books. I really enjoy reading books about entrepreneurship and entrepreneurs.
[
00:52:49] One that I didn't, I don't know if it's, I want to say, you know, these like really deep philosophical books, but, and so some of them are cliche, but I really enjoyed shoe dog. the film that film I did and bought his building of, of Nike, I think it's, it's just a very entertaining, but a great, you know, tons of lessons, that are filled in, in the book with the story of entrepreneurship.
[
00:53:16] And so that one in particular sticks out as, you know, one that I enjoyed and found inspiration
[
00:53:23]
Michael Moore: [
00:53:23] sidebar on that one. Did you see and watch the last dance on ESPN?
[
00:53:31]
Michael Moore: [
00:53:31] I love that piece where he's like, didn't even want to go to Nike. Didn't want to do anything there. And then, I mean, look, what, what happens from there?
[
00:53:40] I mean, there's got, I'm guessing that's a big part of the book, right?
[
00:53:43]
Tim Swindle: [
00:53:43] It was, yeah, that was a huge score. And that took them from, you know, this track and field, you know, kind of niche shoe, into, I think they'd done some tennis stuff maybe at that time. I'm into very much mainstream basketball and took taking over converse.
[
00:54:01] [
00:54:00] So yeah, just the fabric. It's a fascinating story. And to build it into this kind of global iconic brands, you know, in our lifetime too, right. I mean, guys, Alive. I mean, this isn't been around forever, you know? And then is it just cause you brought it up? I mean, especially as a kid from Chicago though with the Michael Jordan story, where's the thing, all of that from our childhood and getting to see how that guy just had.
[
00:54:25] I mean, man, would you not want to be against him?
[
00:54:29]
Michael Moore: [
00:54:29] Oh my God. Well I loved, I mean, it was one in his mama that said you're getting on that plane. I mean, she convinced him to go out and see Nike. Yeah, that was such a great how all of that came together with the timing of COVID-19 and everybody being pinup at home with nothing to watch.
[
00:54:47] And then that gets released as a 10 part series. That was just unbelievable.
[
00:54:53]
Tim Swindle: [
00:54:53] Yeah, that, yeah. I don't like to see me as anymore. Hell you. I mean, it's like the guy, you know, I think right on the bottle is the Bobcat's he's got his, you know, Jordan brand or et cetera. And then the timing of this was, was, was great.
[
00:55:11] But yeah, I mean, that was just, I thought it was a really done documentary and it was kind of fun to get a behind the scenes, look at how he lives his life. And, and one of the lines that I loved from him, I mean, so clearly. Him just being this outrageous competitor. And, it will stop at nothing type of thing.
[
00:55:27] And, but they were giving him crap about his gambling and like, listen, he's like, I don't have a gambling problem. I have a competitiveness, Bravo
[
00:55:47]
Tim Swindle: [
00:55:47] Yeah. It doesn't matter who you got to run over the piss off, you know, and maybe they'll send them. He's not the most loved guy. Right. but that's not what he's trying to be, you know, he's trying to win. [
00:56:00] So definitely, I mean, you talked about inspiration.
[
00:56:02] I mean, Michael Jordan. Sure. Yeah.
[
00:56:04]
Michael Moore: [
00:56:04] I love too. How, I mean with decades behind. Them actually competing on the floor. Like there is no love lost with him and Isaiah Thomas. I mean, it is still alive and well it's like, you guys are just never going to stop, but, you know, I mean, obviously just watching it all and thinking about watching those games with my dad or my brother or whatever, growing up, how they, one thing I really took away is that, you know, it can be lonely at the top.
[
00:56:35] And his, because of the choices that he made, I mean, he was a pretty isolated guy in order to be able to do what he did, but, wow. Just fantastic.
[
00:56:46]
Tim Swindle: [
00:56:46] Who was your sports hero growing up, Michael?
[
00:56:50]
Michael Moore: [
00:56:50] No, I'd have to put Nolan Ryan up there being from Texas, you know, don't, don't come try to charge the mound on that guy.
[
00:56:59] He's gonna hook you like a, like a steer and tell you who's boss. you know, exactly, exactly right. Big sports family. We grew up watching. I mean, you got to go back to like, You know, one of my dad's favorite and then I was a catcher was Roy Campanella and just how he played the game at that time. that would have been a big one.
[
00:57:33]
Michael Moore: [
00:57:33] Hardest job. I would say we were having this conversation last night. I was with a couple of buddies and, we're I don't know how we got to this. We're actually, we're talking about the last dance too, and, and said, well, who and somebody said, well, Walter Payton, I said, I loved Walter Peyton.
[
00:57:48] And then I said, but after I remember growing up and how much I loved Bo Jackson, I mean, Bo and Bo knows and that whole thing. And I mean, the guy was [
00:58:00] playing baseball, football, you know, the guy ran so hard. He dislocated his hip. I mean, combined the guy, he was just, he was an animal physical specimen
[
00:58:11] reminiscent of myself in high school a little bit, you know?
[
00:58:20] we're coming up on an hour. As we kind of wrap things up. What, what would you, you know, in, in, in Mike Hallie's like, say like at the end we like to ask, what, what would you like people to know more about Tim? You know, as we end things here, you know, what, what, you know, like, what's your saying?
[
00:58:40] You like to always say, well, it's, it's not what you know, it's who knows you.
[
00:58:51] So, what would you like everybody to kind of know about, about Tim?
[
00:58:56]
Tim Swindle: [
00:58:56] just cause he threw out a quote. I was gonna throw out one of, one of my favorites and it's, live a life that makes a story worth telling.
[
00:59:06] put a bow on it, better with you talking about success, focus versus you being lifestyle focused.
[
00:59:13] And I mean, I could just see the passion and I know you well enough to know, like you guys are just living life and happy and all that, and it's just so great to see. So thank you so much for sharing everything today and being open with us and spending the hour with us today.
[
00:59:29]
Tim Swindle: [
00:59:29] My pleasure guys. Thank you for having me and good luck and continued success with both of your careers and this podcast, and you know, excited to see where this goes.
[
00:59:40]
Michael Moore: [
00:59:40] Absolutely. Thank you so much, Tim. Thanks Tim.
[
00:59:56]
Michael Moore: [
00:59:56] thanks so much for tuning into this episode of the climb. If [
01:00:00] you enjoyed the episode. Please consider subscribing. And if you know someone who you would think would enjoy the podcast, feel free to share this with them. Thanks again. And we'll see you on the next