WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:01.120 Rupert Isaacson: Thanks for joining us. 00:00:01.190 --> 00:00:03.230 Welcome to Live Free, Ride Free. 00:00:03.410 --> 00:00:06.810 I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times bestselling author of 00:00:06.830 --> 00:00:08.389 The Horseboy and The Long Ride Home. 00:00:08.450 --> 00:00:13.089 Before I jump in with today's guest, I want to say a huge thank you to you, our 00:00:13.089 --> 00:00:14.989 audience, for helping to make this happen. 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:15.949 I have a request. 00:00:16.219 --> 00:00:19.750 If you like what we do here, please give it a thumbs up, 00:00:19.799 --> 00:00:22.380 like, subscribe, tell a friend. 00:00:22.770 --> 00:00:24.910 It really, really helps us to make the pro. 00:00:24.910 --> 00:00:28.930 To find out about our certification courses, online video libraries, 00:00:29.435 --> 00:00:33.325 books, and other courses, please go to rupertisaacson.com. 00:00:34.894 --> 00:00:36.125 So now let's jump in. 00:00:39.535 --> 00:00:43.168 Today again, I have a great hero of mine, Henrich Berkhoff from near 00:00:43.275 --> 00:00:48.975 Munster in Germany, who has and still leads an extraordinary life, 00:00:49.035 --> 00:00:55.145 both as a special needs father, as a politician, as a protector of 00:00:55.385 --> 00:00:58.905 children's rights on the political level and on the practical level. 00:00:59.115 --> 00:01:03.535 And as a farmer, the first organic farmer in his neighborhood. 00:01:03.945 --> 00:01:10.825 And the person who was brought movement in learning into schools in Germany. 00:01:10.855 --> 00:01:12.805 Extraordinary human being. 00:01:13.135 --> 00:01:16.835 So, he's gonna come out of the forest right now because 00:01:16.835 --> 00:01:18.035 that's where he likes to be. 00:01:18.395 --> 00:01:21.265 So, berko, would you please come outta the forest? 00:01:40.369 --> 00:01:43.599 Hey welcome to the show, Henrich. 00:01:43.619 --> 00:01:49.954 Yeah, this looks an unusual place for a a podcast interview to happen. 00:01:49.954 --> 00:01:52.054 You appear to be outside in the forest. 00:01:52.054 --> 00:01:52.714 Why is that? 00:01:53.884 --> 00:01:54.874 Yeah, that is 00:01:55.234 --> 00:01:55.774 Henrich Berkhoff: easy. 00:01:55.864 --> 00:01:59.384 The the nature and the forest is a big part of the nature. 00:01:59.954 --> 00:02:02.324 It's a quite nice place to be. 00:02:02.624 --> 00:02:02.924 Yeah, 00:02:03.404 --> 00:02:03.944 Rupert Isaacson: indeed. 00:02:05.324 --> 00:02:07.364 Why is the forest a nice place to be? 00:02:09.224 --> 00:02:14.954 Henrich Berkhoff: The simple answer is we are gathering and 00:02:15.044 --> 00:02:18.824 hunting humans, and that means. 00:02:20.354 --> 00:02:21.194 For everybody. 00:02:21.194 --> 00:02:27.704 But for me it is, we are so similar with the nature, but 00:02:28.214 --> 00:02:30.794 we forgot all these things. 00:02:31.934 --> 00:02:37.214 And now we have the ation, globalization, and the digital 00:02:37.464 --> 00:02:44.664 world that is not so good to us. 00:02:45.804 --> 00:02:55.074 And if we honestly hearing what is the best place to be, we always 00:02:55.134 --> 00:03:02.304 choose the nature at the beach, in the mountains or in the green. 00:03:02.664 --> 00:03:04.134 And that is true easy. 00:03:04.134 --> 00:03:10.684 If you feel if you're following, following your feeling, you stay 00:03:10.684 --> 00:03:11.164 Rupert Isaacson: outside. 00:03:11.884 --> 00:03:12.604 It's very true. 00:03:13.564 --> 00:03:14.284 It's very true. 00:03:14.854 --> 00:03:15.874 It's good for our brain. 00:03:15.964 --> 00:03:17.164 It's where we're supposed to be. 00:03:17.624 --> 00:03:23.034 Before we dive into the rest of the interview you mentioned that 00:03:23.064 --> 00:03:26.514 you might have a little music for us, music from the Nature. 00:03:27.234 --> 00:03:29.034 Do you want to show us what you mean? 00:03:29.634 --> 00:03:31.374 Henrich Berkhoff: Yes, please. 00:03:32.994 --> 00:03:34.674 I hope it works. 00:03:34.854 --> 00:03:35.574 Not too loud. 00:03:51.144 --> 00:03:54.714 Rupert Isaacson: So, Henrich tell us what you do, who are 00:03:54.714 --> 00:03:56.724 you and how did you get here? 00:03:57.864 --> 00:04:03.354 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, thank you Ru for being here and to have this nice time with 00:04:03.384 --> 00:04:06.474 you at the podcast and yeah, who I am. 00:04:07.594 --> 00:04:15.694 Owner now with my wife from a farm here in the middle of Germany and 00:04:15.934 --> 00:04:22.984 we managed this farm and we get this farm from my parents 25 years ago. 00:04:23.284 --> 00:04:30.724 And then I worked here as a farmer, but no fully time. 00:04:31.024 --> 00:04:36.434 And I study engineering in billing, construction also. 00:04:36.974 --> 00:04:40.574 And I worked there for 15 years. 00:04:41.594 --> 00:04:50.444 And then we thinking about what is the best way, but that is a special reason. 00:04:50.504 --> 00:04:50.714 Yeah. 00:04:50.714 --> 00:04:54.524 You ask me what I am and who I am now. 00:04:54.624 --> 00:04:59.449 I am, I am a politician in this area also here. 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:08.879 I so useful to make something happened if you know the people with the 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:11.309 power of the, to make a decision. 00:05:11.609 --> 00:05:16.309 And I make it for mainly children. 00:05:16.459 --> 00:05:21.074 I am the chairman of the board and I'm the founder of this children 00:05:21.074 --> 00:05:24.614 Protection thing here in this area. 00:05:25.424 --> 00:05:34.364 We started in 2004, and that is yeah, a protection association for this district. 00:05:34.964 --> 00:05:44.404 And also I'm I start this new association, the new trails for Germany. 00:05:44.494 --> 00:05:49.144 That is another story we, we have to think about or talk about later. 00:05:50.479 --> 00:05:51.079 Yes. 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:59.809 That is all I do here, and in the time it comes more and more other things. 00:06:00.169 --> 00:06:06.309 In the addition to this, if you was in this world, you are, you, you will 00:06:06.309 --> 00:06:13.099 be asked for, to help, for, to do this or to think about the next Yeah. 00:06:13.099 --> 00:06:19.529 And, and le at least I start master studies at the University of Bon. 00:06:19.919 --> 00:06:24.719 There's a special university, aos, they have a title that is 00:06:24.719 --> 00:06:29.609 very interesting, researching pedagogic social and therapeutic 00:06:29.609 --> 00:06:34.349 processes, initiating impulses. 00:06:34.379 --> 00:06:40.529 That means what is work, good work in the practice every day. 00:06:40.964 --> 00:06:48.664 To put it in the science world, and that is so cool to reframe things like this. 00:06:49.684 --> 00:06:49.954 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:06:49.954 --> 00:06:55.234 So you, you basically, you, you're like me, you wear 20 different hats. 00:06:55.234 --> 00:06:57.934 You, you're a farmer. 00:06:57.964 --> 00:07:00.754 You were the first organic farmer in your area. 00:07:00.784 --> 00:07:02.554 I think that's something we'd like to talk about. 00:07:03.064 --> 00:07:07.144 You as you say, run the child protection group in your area and 00:07:07.144 --> 00:07:12.094 founded that you work in special education and general education. 00:07:12.644 --> 00:07:17.174 You work with nature and the mind with people at your farm and you 00:07:17.174 --> 00:07:22.064 also go around Germany and the world educating people on all this. 00:07:22.364 --> 00:07:26.624 And you go and speak to the scientists and the politicians because you 00:07:26.684 --> 00:07:31.934 cleverly are a politician to get decisions made for the betterment of. 00:07:34.154 --> 00:07:39.164 Let's say children's experiences in schools and the availability of nature. 00:07:39.164 --> 00:07:41.084 This is an extraordinary endeavor. 00:07:43.844 --> 00:07:45.524 Why do you do this? 00:07:45.524 --> 00:07:47.834 And how did you get here? 00:07:47.834 --> 00:07:50.714 You have a special reason that pushed you into this. 00:07:50.924 --> 00:07:51.704 Tell us about it. 00:07:52.574 --> 00:07:54.014 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, there's a good question. 00:07:54.014 --> 00:07:54.854 Thank you for that. 00:07:56.114 --> 00:08:01.884 If you start at the boy in the area like this, you are especially 00:08:01.884 --> 00:08:04.194 in your, your father is a farmer. 00:08:04.494 --> 00:08:05.724 You are in this world. 00:08:06.384 --> 00:08:08.124 And, but it is a normal thing. 00:08:08.154 --> 00:08:15.804 You have it every day and it is so, nice, but you don't recognize by yourself. 00:08:15.984 --> 00:08:18.114 What a nice environment there. 00:08:18.504 --> 00:08:18.804 Okay. 00:08:18.804 --> 00:08:25.294 I grew up and then luckily, I, I met a nice woman that is my, 00:08:25.744 --> 00:08:28.354 my wife now gi, you know her. 00:08:28.804 --> 00:08:34.274 And we plan together to have a nice to nice place. 00:08:34.334 --> 00:08:38.264 We have a nice place and we plant a nice family and a nice life. 00:08:38.444 --> 00:08:39.044 Okay. 00:08:39.074 --> 00:08:45.774 But in the time of ion pre pregnancy Of my pregnancy? 00:08:46.394 --> 00:08:47.054 Yeah, pregnancy, sorry. 00:08:47.054 --> 00:08:54.984 Of my, but they, they, they, they, in the 20 weeks of the 40 weeks my 00:08:55.104 --> 00:08:59.724 wife called me and she explained me. 00:08:59.754 --> 00:09:03.414 Our baby is not healthy. 00:09:04.224 --> 00:09:08.404 It is it is in this spina bifida. 00:09:08.764 --> 00:09:09.694 Rupert Isaacson: Spina bifida. 00:09:09.754 --> 00:09:10.084 Yeah. 00:09:10.084 --> 00:09:10.144 Yeah. 00:09:10.924 --> 00:09:13.324 Henrich Berkhoff: Perhaps somebody knows that. 00:09:13.384 --> 00:09:16.924 But in this time, I have no idea what this is. 00:09:17.594 --> 00:09:19.964 We have a special word in German for this. 00:09:20.024 --> 00:09:20.594 Okay. 00:09:20.654 --> 00:09:20.774 I. 00:09:21.864 --> 00:09:22.974 Remember that word? 00:09:23.034 --> 00:09:28.704 And it was not nice, really, that you, if you are thinking of your 00:09:28.704 --> 00:09:32.994 food future of your life, you are thinking, okay, this can be happening. 00:09:32.994 --> 00:09:34.914 This can be happening, but this and this. 00:09:34.914 --> 00:09:35.604 Please know. 00:09:36.084 --> 00:09:36.414 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:09:37.614 --> 00:09:40.464 And nobody wants to be a special needs parent. 00:09:40.974 --> 00:09:41.634 Henrich Berkhoff: Nobody. 00:09:41.694 --> 00:09:42.564 Nobody really. 00:09:42.774 --> 00:09:49.254 And, but this comes and it, we have a situation here in Germany. 00:09:49.254 --> 00:09:57.474 We have the rights to kill the baby at this time. 00:09:58.059 --> 00:09:59.274 Rupert Isaacson: A, a late abortion. 00:09:59.274 --> 00:09:59.994 Effectively. 00:10:00.294 --> 00:10:00.744 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 00:10:01.224 --> 00:10:01.734 And 00:10:02.214 --> 00:10:05.394 Rupert Isaacson: or to carry the baby, to kill the baby in the womb, 00:10:05.754 --> 00:10:07.044 and then carry the baby to the end. 00:10:07.044 --> 00:10:07.464 No, in the, 00:10:07.464 --> 00:10:09.324 Henrich Berkhoff: in the, in, in inside. 00:10:09.374 --> 00:10:17.294 The, and this is, every doctor said, Hey, it is your. 00:10:20.114 --> 00:10:21.374 Think about your life. 00:10:21.404 --> 00:10:24.434 Think about the life of this human. 00:10:24.554 --> 00:10:26.354 It's not so nice here. 00:10:26.474 --> 00:10:30.074 You, we have all the letters that can happen. 00:10:30.074 --> 00:10:31.694 That can, this can happen. 00:10:32.174 --> 00:10:33.794 This is not easy to handle. 00:10:33.794 --> 00:10:42.854 That is, that means so many surgeries and we cannot say if he's healthy enough to 00:10:42.854 --> 00:10:47.579 speak healthy enough to have normal life. 00:10:48.389 --> 00:10:54.719 And how many disabilities they, they give it all this shitty news. 00:10:55.469 --> 00:10:55.769 Rupert Isaacson: Right? 00:10:55.769 --> 00:10:57.689 Because it wasn't just spina bifida, was it? 00:10:57.689 --> 00:10:59.189 It was also hydrocephalus. 00:10:59.249 --> 00:10:59.669 Yeah. 00:10:59.849 --> 00:11:00.659 Henrich Berkhoff: Water on the brain. 00:11:00.749 --> 00:11:08.049 Most, if you have this thing, mostly you have this hydrocephalus thing, and 00:11:08.049 --> 00:11:10.489 that means your brain is under pressure. 00:11:10.834 --> 00:11:13.414 Yeah, good things. 00:11:13.414 --> 00:11:18.694 We have now this medicine, they can do something and that 00:11:18.694 --> 00:11:20.284 is another podcast perhaps. 00:11:20.284 --> 00:11:27.874 But first we have the information from the doctors, from the maybe society 00:11:27.874 --> 00:11:30.874 say that, hey, that is not a good way. 00:11:31.144 --> 00:11:36.004 Please choose the easy way, whatever that means. 00:11:36.154 --> 00:11:37.594 What is the easy way? 00:11:37.684 --> 00:11:38.134 Yeah. 00:11:38.464 --> 00:11:41.824 Easy way is you have a house, you have a nice life, you have a nice woman. 00:11:42.334 --> 00:11:48.574 And, and, and, and, but now we are asking directly and we have 00:11:48.574 --> 00:11:53.914 to choose this way, the easy way. 00:11:54.574 --> 00:11:55.204 I don't know. 00:11:55.534 --> 00:11:56.854 We choose the other way. 00:11:58.234 --> 00:12:01.894 And at it was a hard way. 00:12:01.894 --> 00:12:02.974 Yes, of course. 00:12:03.004 --> 00:12:04.234 It was not easy. 00:12:04.654 --> 00:12:07.534 Julian, our oldest from the three boys. 00:12:08.689 --> 00:12:18.979 Born is in 2002 and the first two years, maybe little breaks, but he lives in the 00:12:19.129 --> 00:12:27.029 university clinic in nearby in this in Minster and my wife the first two years. 00:12:27.389 --> 00:12:27.689 Yeah. 00:12:27.689 --> 00:12:28.889 We have little breaks. 00:12:28.979 --> 00:12:29.459 Wow. 00:12:30.089 --> 00:12:31.949 We have little breaks with surgery 00:12:31.949 --> 00:12:32.699 Rupert Isaacson: after surgery. 00:12:32.699 --> 00:12:33.449 After surgery. 00:12:33.449 --> 00:12:33.959 Yeah. 00:12:33.959 --> 00:12:34.019 Yeah. 00:12:34.979 --> 00:12:36.959 Henrich Berkhoff: 13 surgeries in this time. 00:12:37.289 --> 00:12:37.499 Geez. 00:12:37.529 --> 00:12:37.979 13. 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:43.319 Some, some human, some people have no one surgery in, in their whole life. 00:12:43.379 --> 00:12:48.909 He is a little, little tiny baby, and he wants to live. 00:12:49.539 --> 00:12:49.659 Mm-hmm. 00:12:49.659 --> 00:12:53.769 He show us, Hey, I'm here. 00:12:54.969 --> 00:13:01.569 Please give me a chance to discover the world. 00:13:03.264 --> 00:13:03.894 That happened. 00:13:04.554 --> 00:13:05.724 He's a strong boy. 00:13:05.724 --> 00:13:09.564 He's fighting and there was many crisis. 00:13:09.684 --> 00:13:12.954 It was not, not easy gi, 00:13:13.074 --> 00:13:14.004 Rupert Isaacson: I can only imagine. 00:13:14.154 --> 00:13:14.484 Yeah, 00:13:15.534 --> 00:13:15.594 Henrich Berkhoff: yeah. 00:13:15.594 --> 00:13:18.364 Git was most time there. 00:13:18.574 --> 00:13:22.274 She lives nearby in the special rooms for parents. 00:13:22.454 --> 00:13:26.474 And yeah, this was a hard time. 00:13:26.534 --> 00:13:34.784 But you, what I'm wondering, and I never know it before, is what powerful 00:13:35.894 --> 00:13:42.554 thing inside the parents to fight for this baby in the moment the baby 00:13:42.554 --> 00:13:48.254 is on, on the world, you can see and you can hold the baby this moment. 00:13:48.734 --> 00:13:50.924 You are the powerful person ever. 00:13:51.164 --> 00:13:54.284 And you cannot imagine it before. 00:13:55.004 --> 00:13:55.814 You have no chance. 00:13:56.694 --> 00:13:58.339 But then you are. 00:13:59.709 --> 00:14:02.349 Able to do everything for your baby. 00:14:03.429 --> 00:14:04.539 And that happened. 00:14:04.719 --> 00:14:06.459 You are in the process. 00:14:06.459 --> 00:14:12.789 And today I have sometimes the photos from this time, this 00:14:12.789 --> 00:14:17.169 little human baby lie in the bed. 00:14:17.259 --> 00:14:22.569 Was this, what is heating and all the instruments, all the cables and what 00:14:23.079 --> 00:14:30.369 everything you cannot, you on the picture is more technique than human things. 00:14:30.374 --> 00:14:30.544 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:31.209 Yeah. 00:14:31.359 --> 00:14:36.759 Henrich Berkhoff: If I saw a picture to Dave from this time that is 00:14:37.369 --> 00:14:39.919 I'm say, look what happened there. 00:14:40.729 --> 00:14:42.799 But in this you can handle it. 00:14:42.889 --> 00:14:49.489 You can give a chance to a human life and that is what we have to do. 00:14:49.969 --> 00:14:54.409 That is not our decision to do in it is in my opinion. 00:14:54.469 --> 00:14:56.899 Or may we, it is not. 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.859 To say, oh, this is a good life, or That is not a good life. 00:15:01.309 --> 00:15:03.229 Julian choose his way. 00:15:03.829 --> 00:15:08.629 And he did it wonderful, but not easy. 00:15:09.169 --> 00:15:09.529 Yeah. 00:15:09.859 --> 00:15:18.509 It is so many crisis, so many things until today it's not easy. 00:15:19.439 --> 00:15:23.939 But hey, what, what is important in your life? 00:15:23.939 --> 00:15:33.329 And if you never go down, you have no idea how nice it is on the top of the hill. 00:15:34.079 --> 00:15:34.409 Yeah. 00:15:34.589 --> 00:15:44.429 And that is what we have to learn the most dreaming from everybody is you have 00:15:44.429 --> 00:15:49.949 a street straight, nice and easy to go. 00:15:50.339 --> 00:15:50.789 Mm-hmm. 00:15:51.749 --> 00:15:54.749 And hey, what is. 00:15:55.304 --> 00:15:57.494 The best learning in the world. 00:15:57.524 --> 00:15:59.564 It's not happened on this road. 00:16:00.464 --> 00:16:08.354 It is if you go upsides in the ditches or whatever, and you have to fight 00:16:08.354 --> 00:16:13.574 and you have to climb out of this situation, that is a learning process. 00:16:13.754 --> 00:16:17.624 And that is where we created as a human. 00:16:17.774 --> 00:16:26.429 That is what we are talk about later, and that is the gr the ground of 00:16:26.429 --> 00:16:30.809 the next decisions you are ask for. 00:16:31.349 --> 00:16:36.029 And that is why we are today at this this farm. 00:16:36.029 --> 00:16:42.339 And that is a re a reason of how we do this work now. 00:16:42.819 --> 00:16:46.839 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, no, I mean, your, your story is obviously. 00:16:47.694 --> 00:16:52.044 Somewhat similar to mine but with my autistic son. 00:16:52.344 --> 00:16:58.404 And that forced me to change the direction with my life, with my career. 00:16:58.644 --> 00:17:00.474 And now that is what I do. 00:17:00.844 --> 00:17:04.984 But there's a big difference in your experience, which is that my son 00:17:05.284 --> 00:17:11.164 never had the medical, physical, medical complications that your 00:17:11.164 --> 00:17:15.394 son has, has had, and still has. 00:17:16.264 --> 00:17:22.144 And this takes even more strength and will to. 00:17:23.479 --> 00:17:28.549 Handle because you are dealing with a very direct existential 00:17:28.549 --> 00:17:31.519 threat to your own child. 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:35.269 Your child could die in those early phases. 00:17:35.329 --> 00:17:42.649 And then with every surgery, and I've known you since 2017, and even 00:17:42.649 --> 00:17:47.299 in that time I have known Julian going through these surgeries. 00:17:47.689 --> 00:17:48.739 Some quite big ones. 00:17:48.829 --> 00:17:53.479 And each time there is this question, will the person survive? 00:17:53.509 --> 00:17:55.399 Will the surgery be successful? 00:17:56.479 --> 00:18:03.169 And to deal with this kind of anxiety while still building, 00:18:03.169 --> 00:18:11.029 working, and doing all the things that you do, this takes a special. 00:18:13.309 --> 00:18:15.379 Personality, both. 00:18:15.379 --> 00:18:17.689 I know Giddy your wife very well. 00:18:17.689 --> 00:18:19.669 Obviously she's also a colleague of mine. 00:18:19.969 --> 00:18:23.939 And for those listeners to my other podcast, equine Assisted 00:18:23.939 --> 00:18:28.259 World, please go and listen to Giddy KO's podcast there because 00:18:28.259 --> 00:18:29.849 she's an extraordinary human being. 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:37.829 She of course had a background as a nurse and not just as a hospital nurse, but 00:18:37.829 --> 00:18:45.759 also a nurse dealing with dementia and psychological neuropsychological issues. 00:18:45.969 --> 00:18:48.339 So it's very interesting. 00:18:48.669 --> 00:18:53.889 People say you get given the challenge that you can handle by life annoyingly. 00:18:54.459 --> 00:18:56.289 So your wife is there. 00:18:56.289 --> 00:18:57.969 She already has this medical knowledge. 00:18:58.089 --> 00:18:59.559 She already has this neuro. 00:18:59.934 --> 00:19:04.794 Psychological knowledge and your son is born both with a physical condition 00:19:05.184 --> 00:19:07.044 and with pressure on the brain. 00:19:09.804 --> 00:19:12.414 Someone might look from the outside and say, well great, 00:19:14.034 --> 00:19:15.804 but it's not quite so easy. 00:19:16.044 --> 00:19:16.224 Yeah. 00:19:16.224 --> 00:19:23.304 And then, and then there's you coming in and what do you think made you say, 00:19:25.464 --> 00:19:31.704 when the doctors effectively said, Berko, I think you should terminate 00:19:31.704 --> 00:19:34.164 your child's life before he's born. 00:19:35.844 --> 00:19:39.144 And I'm sure they made a very strong case for this. 00:19:40.284 --> 00:19:45.264 What made you look at the next 50 years and say, ah, if, fuck it. 00:19:45.264 --> 00:19:47.244 Sure it'll be grand and do it. 00:19:49.284 --> 00:19:50.424 Talk to us about this. 00:19:50.544 --> 00:19:51.264 It's intriguing. 00:19:51.894 --> 00:19:56.619 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, you are right for me was. 00:19:57.504 --> 00:20:00.954 The answer of this question of the doctors only one way. 00:20:01.644 --> 00:20:02.094 Mm-hmm. 00:20:02.364 --> 00:20:06.654 I, my personality is, I'm always positive. 00:20:07.674 --> 00:20:07.914 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:20:07.974 --> 00:20:10.944 Henrich Berkhoff: And in every situation, yeah. 00:20:11.424 --> 00:20:18.054 There may be thousand of bad situation for everybody, but you have the choice. 00:20:18.504 --> 00:20:25.824 And in, I thought about, hey, we can handle this every day. 00:20:25.854 --> 00:20:33.474 This shitty situation, there was a lot of, but we can handle it the 00:20:33.504 --> 00:20:36.114 other way means that is the end. 00:20:36.774 --> 00:20:36.924 Mm-hmm. 00:20:36.954 --> 00:20:39.984 And that produce so many question. 00:20:40.734 --> 00:20:41.514 Rupert Isaacson: That is true. 00:20:41.664 --> 00:20:47.334 Henrich Berkhoff: What can, in, in, in special in this, you, you 00:20:47.334 --> 00:20:49.854 in the future on this other way. 00:20:49.854 --> 00:20:51.744 You, you have the me you. 00:20:52.479 --> 00:20:56.589 Have the knowledge of other people, they are happy in the wheelchair and they 00:20:56.589 --> 00:20:59.409 make their special Olympics or whatever. 00:21:00.099 --> 00:21:04.909 Hey, on you end at the at the beginning, at the start. 00:21:04.914 --> 00:21:05.064 Mm-hmm. 00:21:05.569 --> 00:21:09.499 And that is not what I'm thinking in. 00:21:09.499 --> 00:21:17.509 And I say, Hey, this other way, it is not the easiest way, but we can, we, every 00:21:17.509 --> 00:21:20.029 day we have to choose what can we do? 00:21:20.809 --> 00:21:29.119 And believe me, we can do more with our power, human power that 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:31.639 we ever, ever thinking about. 00:21:32.179 --> 00:21:32.389 Mm-hmm. 00:21:32.389 --> 00:21:41.979 And we, I have, and GI also, we have no idea, but we go, we we're on this 00:21:41.979 --> 00:21:45.219 way with the life and not against. 00:21:47.514 --> 00:21:48.804 Is our decision. 00:21:48.984 --> 00:21:59.164 Some parents and especially some woman's mothers are not able to do this way. 00:21:59.854 --> 00:22:12.364 Yeah, we have respect also, but this way was for GT and me the best, and we have 00:22:12.364 --> 00:22:19.444 so many meetings with other families, they are in front of the same question. 00:22:20.734 --> 00:22:22.894 We have meetings with this families. 00:22:23.704 --> 00:22:30.754 This is same question, and we say, Hey, look here, we choose this way 00:22:30.754 --> 00:22:36.274 because we can answer every day a question, whatever the question are. 00:22:36.964 --> 00:22:42.484 The other way is you cannot answer every, not answer the. 00:22:43.084 --> 00:22:44.539 One of the question you have 00:22:47.029 --> 00:22:48.814 that is the different, what is, 00:22:49.534 --> 00:22:53.524 Rupert Isaacson: what is so interesting to me is, as you say, not everybody 00:22:53.554 --> 00:22:55.024 will make the same decision. 00:22:55.084 --> 00:22:59.224 And there are people in life circumstances for whom, as you say, 00:22:59.224 --> 00:23:03.484 we must respect that they would make a different decision to you and giddy. 00:23:05.584 --> 00:23:11.254 You come from a farming background, you come from a farming family background 00:23:11.724 --> 00:23:13.794 and you have quite a large family. 00:23:14.004 --> 00:23:18.934 I know your mother very well, atti who's, you know, someone to whom we must 00:23:18.934 --> 00:23:21.714 always give our gratitude and respect. 00:23:21.714 --> 00:23:27.784 She's, you know, one of the most wonderful human beings that I know. 00:23:28.354 --> 00:23:31.894 So you were fortunate, I suppose, that you lived in. 00:23:32.944 --> 00:23:38.254 An environment where there was tribe, we could say, do you think 00:23:38.254 --> 00:23:40.084 this affected your decision? 00:23:40.184 --> 00:23:45.014 F for example, if you had been living in an apartment in the 00:23:45.014 --> 00:23:51.504 middle of the city perhaps no family or maybe as a single parent. 00:23:52.809 --> 00:23:58.359 Of course we can only speculate because this was not your circumstance, but 00:23:59.169 --> 00:24:08.769 do you think that Julian's life also owes itself to some degree, to this 00:24:08.769 --> 00:24:12.489 tribal culture that you come from? 00:24:13.989 --> 00:24:14.469 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 00:24:15.129 --> 00:24:16.464 Well, that is a nice question. 00:24:16.904 --> 00:24:21.609 I, I talk about this meetings with other families in the same situation. 00:24:21.939 --> 00:24:22.029 Mm-hmm. 00:24:22.029 --> 00:24:24.969 And there was one meeting with. 00:24:26.184 --> 00:24:32.004 16 old year mother or becoming a mother. 00:24:32.754 --> 00:24:39.404 This girl is such in the end of the school time and start in the profession. 00:24:39.914 --> 00:24:47.124 And she was also pregnant and she was also the same think, concentrate. 00:24:47.904 --> 00:24:54.294 And this girl says, no, I have to go this way. 00:24:55.134 --> 00:24:55.164 Rupert Isaacson: Mm. 00:24:55.584 --> 00:25:02.934 Henrich Berkhoff: And you asking for, is it a tribe, a family, a social life thing? 00:25:03.294 --> 00:25:13.254 But in my perspective now, I, I thought the tribe come to this point. 00:25:13.434 --> 00:25:17.154 If you are in this situation, the the tribe come to you. 00:25:17.994 --> 00:25:18.354 Right. 00:25:18.504 --> 00:25:22.584 We, we have no idea, Hey, come, we can handle it easily with a 00:25:22.584 --> 00:25:24.264 family, with blah, blah, blah. 00:25:24.354 --> 00:25:24.834 No. 00:25:24.864 --> 00:25:32.544 That, that, that was not, and in our thinking, we, we, we are not looking to 00:25:32.544 --> 00:25:35.394 the family, to the round and what, uh mm. 00:25:36.114 --> 00:25:38.034 We, we have the, to do this decision. 00:25:38.274 --> 00:25:40.644 And in this decision you are alone. 00:25:41.334 --> 00:25:50.724 But if you go this way, we think it's a, not, not, that is 00:25:50.784 --> 00:25:52.434 obviously not the easiest way. 00:25:53.544 --> 00:25:54.234 Maybe Yeah. 00:25:54.624 --> 00:25:55.464 Is easier. 00:25:56.334 --> 00:25:56.694 Yeah. 00:25:56.754 --> 00:26:04.584 And that the tribe comes and that is how we developed this farm and 00:26:04.584 --> 00:26:10.744 how we met this wonderful person in the horse boy tribe world. 00:26:10.804 --> 00:26:14.734 And that is, comes all from this point. 00:26:16.474 --> 00:26:21.724 To make it happen, to choose the way. 00:26:22.714 --> 00:26:30.344 And in this thinking of our son Julian, he had no decision to do. 00:26:31.004 --> 00:26:37.364 He is growing up, not in the best and healthiest thing, but 00:26:37.844 --> 00:26:45.944 you want to go the way which is designed for every human being. 00:26:47.024 --> 00:26:47.714 You know, 00:26:47.744 --> 00:26:49.124 Rupert Isaacson: it's so interesting what you say. 00:26:49.124 --> 00:26:53.914 The tribe will come to you because when my son was diagnosed, I was 00:26:54.484 --> 00:27:00.094 living on a remote farm in Texas. 00:27:00.844 --> 00:27:02.164 My ex-wife and I. 00:27:02.929 --> 00:27:08.039 Had no extended family and actually relatively few friends because the 00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:11.669 friends that we had, they all lived in the nearby city, which was Austin, 00:27:12.029 --> 00:27:17.189 but not in the village out 45 minutes outside of Austin where we lived. 00:27:17.699 --> 00:27:20.189 So we really found ourselves isolated. 00:27:20.369 --> 00:27:23.159 And it's so interesting that you say the tribe will come to you 00:27:23.579 --> 00:27:25.259 because that's exactly what happened. 00:27:25.859 --> 00:27:34.019 When we began to work with my son and then somehow naturally with other 00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:40.379 children with a similar condition in the area, the tribe just arrived. 00:27:41.069 --> 00:27:48.049 And when I looked up three or four years after the diagnosis, 00:27:48.679 --> 00:27:51.199 the diagnosis was 2004. 00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:55.219 The, I was looking up in around 2000 and. 00:27:57.334 --> 00:27:58.624 Seven or so. 00:27:59.164 --> 00:28:03.514 And so there was already by then a tribe that had been created around him. 00:28:03.754 --> 00:28:09.094 It's almost as if these special children create their own tribes. 00:28:09.604 --> 00:28:15.274 They seem to bring out the best in people, and people seem to feel better 00:28:15.274 --> 00:28:22.054 and perhaps even somewhat healed when they're in the presence of special needs. 00:28:22.414 --> 00:28:25.864 Either that or they reject completely and they go the other way. 00:28:26.554 --> 00:28:27.544 So I think you're right. 00:28:27.544 --> 00:28:29.159 I, you know, but so, I mean, 00:28:31.804 --> 00:28:35.284 you're right that the tribe will come, but this is of course something very 00:28:35.284 --> 00:28:37.954 scary for people if they're facing this. 00:28:37.954 --> 00:28:38.284 Oh, yes. 00:28:38.794 --> 00:28:39.814 As an unknown. 00:28:39.954 --> 00:28:43.764 So I think hearing you say that is, is of great use. 00:28:43.884 --> 00:28:46.704 And now of course your son is doing incredibly well. 00:28:47.109 --> 00:28:51.069 Please just tell us a little bit how Julian is doing now and then, 00:28:51.189 --> 00:28:54.729 because there's, I want to ask you about where that experience 00:28:54.729 --> 00:28:56.469 with Julian has brought you. 00:28:57.789 --> 00:28:58.239 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 00:28:58.359 --> 00:28:59.439 Rupert Isaacson: Ru how is he doing now? 00:29:00.459 --> 00:29:03.669 Henrich Berkhoff: I will answer this question, but I have a thought. 00:29:04.959 --> 00:29:10.809 The tribe comes to you and why it is this happened. 00:29:11.499 --> 00:29:17.199 If you were before you were alone, maybe you have not easy 00:29:17.919 --> 00:29:19.479 things and nothing happened. 00:29:19.479 --> 00:29:22.479 There's nothing that you nobody comes. 00:29:22.569 --> 00:29:23.319 You are foreign. 00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:33.249 Your own idea of your life in this moment, you go the most people are following their 00:29:33.249 --> 00:29:43.449 way straightly, and they are not able or not looking under this or this side, and. 00:29:44.619 --> 00:29:49.449 We were bombed out of this straight way path. 00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:58.419 And then we have to reorganize our life, our thinking, our pop, pop, pop. 00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:06.789 In this moment, the new tribe is coming up and building up. 00:30:07.899 --> 00:30:12.759 If we following the mainstream, maybe we, we have a nice life. 00:30:13.059 --> 00:30:22.689 Perfect, but we never thinking about this things right on left, 00:30:22.689 --> 00:30:25.329 on the straight, mainstream way. 00:30:25.809 --> 00:30:32.199 And if you want to feel the right life and so many people are looking and searching 00:30:32.199 --> 00:30:36.609 this, yeah, you have to go in this other. 00:30:37.824 --> 00:30:41.184 Areas in this other thinkings, and we have no chance to do. 00:30:41.244 --> 00:30:44.064 Nobody choose is by your own. 00:30:44.394 --> 00:30:50.784 But we are bombed and we are landing in this other new world and the humans 00:30:50.784 --> 00:30:56.844 can create a new life and new we, we have this brain here and we can do this. 00:30:57.204 --> 00:30:57.594 Okay. 00:30:58.464 --> 00:31:06.124 And that is what I thought if you asking me question about Julian 00:31:06.124 --> 00:31:09.244 today, and he's a young boy. 00:31:09.244 --> 00:31:13.004 He is 23 years. 00:31:13.364 --> 00:31:22.024 And he goes to the school after he first he stand one year and the 00:31:22.024 --> 00:31:28.954 special needs school, but that is too far away and that needs one hour to 00:31:28.954 --> 00:31:30.754 bring him there and one hour back. 00:31:30.784 --> 00:31:31.234 And I. 00:31:31.834 --> 00:31:37.834 We thought, Hey, two hours from a whole day from this little 7-year-old 00:31:37.834 --> 00:31:40.924 boy, it's only sitting in the car. 00:31:40.984 --> 00:31:42.034 It's not so nice. 00:31:42.724 --> 00:31:50.284 And then we ask the school here in the, in, in our village, but the, they said, 00:31:50.344 --> 00:31:52.594 oh, you are one boy in the wheelchair. 00:31:52.594 --> 00:31:53.794 Well, we are not cons. 00:31:54.004 --> 00:31:59.014 Our construction is not so, is our barriers and pop up and 00:31:59.254 --> 00:32:04.054 yeah, it's the special needs school is better for your son. 00:32:04.654 --> 00:32:11.354 And then we, we, we talk to other people with other parents, with special needs 00:32:11.354 --> 00:32:15.644 kiddos, otherwise me and, and all this. 00:32:15.884 --> 00:32:19.844 And we make five parents together and we go to the school and say, 00:32:19.844 --> 00:32:24.974 Hey, now you have five special needs students here at your school, please. 00:32:25.484 --> 00:32:26.654 Can we start here? 00:32:27.074 --> 00:32:34.254 And in Germany you can choose your cho school and then the 00:32:34.644 --> 00:32:35.634 Rupert Isaacson: that's very interesting. 00:32:35.634 --> 00:32:35.814 Yeah. 00:32:35.819 --> 00:32:35.889 Yeah. 00:32:36.234 --> 00:32:37.794 'cause in many countries that's not possible. 00:32:37.974 --> 00:32:38.484 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 00:32:38.484 --> 00:32:38.544 Yeah. 00:32:38.604 --> 00:32:45.204 We, we, we, here in Germany, you have the choice and they have to organize this. 00:32:45.294 --> 00:32:53.034 And they said, oh, we, our thinking is with every child in the school, 00:32:53.034 --> 00:32:58.164 you have three hours a special needs teacher, and now we are five 00:32:58.194 --> 00:33:01.104 in a class of 25 up to 30 people. 00:33:01.404 --> 00:33:05.344 That means five, three hours for every child. 00:33:05.404 --> 00:33:09.364 15 hours, you have an additional teacher in your class. 00:33:10.264 --> 00:33:11.164 And that is cool. 00:33:11.224 --> 00:33:13.774 Not only cool for the special needs kiddos. 00:33:14.029 --> 00:33:14.119 Right. 00:33:14.749 --> 00:33:17.269 Every student in the class is nice. 00:33:17.659 --> 00:33:18.049 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:33:18.199 --> 00:33:22.509 Henrich Berkhoff: And also with Julian, we bring a assistant 00:33:22.689 --> 00:33:24.639 because it is, it's a wheelchair. 00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:28.669 It's not so easy to handle all their stuff in the school. 00:33:28.669 --> 00:33:32.869 And then is Yeah, then we, that, that means we have up to three 00:33:32.869 --> 00:33:39.679 people, not every hour, but in the main school time, we have three 00:33:39.679 --> 00:33:41.809 people in the primary school time. 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:43.729 And that was very cool. 00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:51.849 And it was a, so successful the school become a ordinary perfect school and 00:33:51.909 --> 00:33:57.039 other school direct direct send us teacher, Hey, have a look in this school. 00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:03.009 There is inclusion happened in the school time and is successful too. 00:34:03.939 --> 00:34:04.449 Yeah. 00:34:04.449 --> 00:34:06.819 And this is a cool. 00:34:08.499 --> 00:34:15.819 Time because it was nearby five minutes away and it is the social Yeah. 00:34:15.879 --> 00:34:16.059 Perfect. 00:34:16.089 --> 00:34:17.319 Circle from Julian. 00:34:17.709 --> 00:34:18.339 Absolutely. 00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:20.349 And that is what happened there. 00:34:20.889 --> 00:34:22.359 And it's for everybody. 00:34:22.359 --> 00:34:24.339 It's it, it was a great time. 00:34:24.879 --> 00:34:28.119 But remember, remember please not easy. 00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:37.659 The school rules are not so, perfectly fit to this disabled people and 00:34:37.689 --> 00:34:44.469 they're what they need, but hey, we can create some nice ways and we did it. 00:34:44.529 --> 00:34:44.829 Yeah. 00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:52.509 For example, there is a sport event that is every year they have to do this in, in 00:34:52.509 --> 00:34:56.609 the to jump running and throwing balls. 00:34:57.149 --> 00:35:00.299 That is the main sports there and together. 00:35:00.359 --> 00:35:05.109 And later you have your notes you have your points and yeah, that 00:35:05.109 --> 00:35:06.519 means you have this and this note. 00:35:06.789 --> 00:35:11.139 But a for the wheelchair driver, we have no idea. 00:35:11.139 --> 00:35:17.799 Then we create a new competition there, 100 meter with a wheelchair. 00:35:18.319 --> 00:35:21.679 Who is the fastest Perfect. 00:35:22.099 --> 00:35:25.669 They, Julian wins the race. 00:35:26.689 --> 00:35:28.429 He's best at the head. 00:35:28.489 --> 00:35:29.719 He had the best practice. 00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:35.429 But the other I have also fund with to do this. 00:35:35.489 --> 00:35:35.849 Yeah. 00:35:35.854 --> 00:35:36.074 Yeah. 00:35:36.629 --> 00:35:42.169 And that especially especially the kiddos, the students, they have no question. 00:35:43.009 --> 00:35:49.609 There was a newspaper man reporting, hey, how it works, and he asked the teacher, 00:35:49.609 --> 00:35:51.709 he asked the principal, and he asked. 00:35:52.804 --> 00:35:54.004 The other students. 00:35:54.814 --> 00:36:01.114 And he asked to the other students in the class of Julian, Hey, how do you feel 00:36:01.114 --> 00:36:04.204 with a disabled person in your classroom? 00:36:05.494 --> 00:36:09.394 And the kiddos don't understand this question. 00:36:10.414 --> 00:36:15.634 What do you mean disabled people who is disabled here in our class? 00:36:16.804 --> 00:36:25.394 And Julian just crossed the corner with his wheelchair and they, ROS 00:36:25.724 --> 00:36:28.574 don't understand this question. 00:36:29.054 --> 00:36:29.414 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, 00:36:30.069 --> 00:36:30.419 Henrich Berkhoff: great. 00:36:30.764 --> 00:36:38.394 And then later he luckily he comes up private, organized school with 00:36:38.394 --> 00:36:44.154 the Montessori thinking and they say, yes, everybody is welcome here and. 00:36:45.369 --> 00:36:49.329 We have to look, what is your potential? 00:36:49.469 --> 00:36:50.879 What is your power? 00:36:50.879 --> 00:36:52.959 What is to have a look? 00:36:52.959 --> 00:36:56.979 What is that what you like to do? 00:36:57.339 --> 00:37:05.169 And that is in this thinking, you are the best in, in, in, you 00:37:05.169 --> 00:37:07.089 are the best in what do you like? 00:37:10.149 --> 00:37:13.239 Rupert Isaacson: What's so interesting about this is you're talking about 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:22.849 advocacy and somewhere in your boyhood you must have learned some 00:37:22.849 --> 00:37:28.879 skills about how to advocate for yourself and for other people. 00:37:29.089 --> 00:37:34.909 Now, you have gone on with this because you've helped Julian to find a career. 00:37:34.909 --> 00:37:35.869 He's now working. 00:37:36.019 --> 00:37:36.709 It's wonderful. 00:37:36.709 --> 00:37:37.489 He's driving. 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:37.909 It's. 00:37:38.434 --> 00:37:38.974 Phenomenal. 00:37:39.214 --> 00:37:39.484 Yeah. 00:37:39.554 --> 00:37:45.314 And you have two other sons that we haven't talked about who are a great 00:37:45.314 --> 00:37:47.834 success in, in, in, in their lives too. 00:37:48.704 --> 00:37:55.634 But in each case with this, you have learned how to advocate first for 00:37:55.634 --> 00:37:57.524 your own child and then for yourself. 00:37:57.524 --> 00:38:01.844 Now for my own story, I, I, I'm, I'm a good advocate too. 00:38:01.844 --> 00:38:08.894 So I advocated for Rowan for my son and then wanted to teach him and people 00:38:08.894 --> 00:38:12.194 like him how to advocate for themselves. 00:38:12.404 --> 00:38:16.424 But I, of course had a background in working in human 00:38:16.424 --> 00:38:18.794 rights, working in journalism. 00:38:19.424 --> 00:38:26.504 And so perhaps I had some training in this before the diagnosis happened. 00:38:26.804 --> 00:38:32.534 So it was somewhat natural for me to fall into a role of. 00:38:33.269 --> 00:38:38.579 An advocate, where does it come from with you many people in your position? 00:38:38.579 --> 00:38:42.869 For example, with the school, when the school says, oh no, sorry, I don't think 00:38:42.869 --> 00:38:47.159 so many people would say, oh, okay. 00:38:47.729 --> 00:38:49.469 I guess, I guess not. 00:38:49.469 --> 00:38:57.929 Then where did you learn how to say, Hmm, let me give you 00:38:57.929 --> 00:39:01.979 plan B and C and D and E and F. 00:39:04.139 --> 00:39:05.309 Where did this come from? 00:39:06.609 --> 00:39:11.709 As you know, if you followed any of my work, I'm an autism dad and we have 00:39:11.709 --> 00:39:18.269 a whole career before this podcast in helping people with neurodivergence, 00:39:18.949 --> 00:39:21.169 either who are professionals in the field. 00:39:21.249 --> 00:39:22.089 Are you a therapist? 00:39:22.509 --> 00:39:23.779 Are you a caregiver? 00:39:24.169 --> 00:39:25.179 Are you a parent? 00:39:25.614 --> 00:39:27.644 Or are you somebody with neurodivergence? 00:39:29.084 --> 00:39:34.024 When my son, Rowan, was diagnosed with autism in 2004, 00:39:34.064 --> 00:39:35.694 I really didn't know what to do. 00:39:35.894 --> 00:39:41.164 So I reached out for mentorship, and I found it through an amazing adult 00:39:41.204 --> 00:39:44.004 autistic woman who's very famous, Dr. 00:39:44.154 --> 00:39:45.044 Temple Grandin. 00:39:45.244 --> 00:39:46.884 And she told me what to do. 00:39:46.934 --> 00:39:51.174 And it's been working so amazingly for the last 20 years. 00:39:51.524 --> 00:39:55.974 That not only is my son basically independent, but we've helped 00:39:56.234 --> 00:39:59.984 countless, countless thousands of others reach the same goal. 00:40:00.324 --> 00:40:04.224 Working in schools, working at home, working in therapy settings. 00:40:05.254 --> 00:40:09.694 If you would like to learn this cutting edge, neuroscience backed 00:40:09.914 --> 00:40:11.954 approach, it's called Movement Method. 00:40:12.614 --> 00:40:15.971 You can learn it online, you can learn it very, very simply. 00:40:15.971 --> 00:40:18.234 It's almost laughably simple. 00:40:19.174 --> 00:40:21.874 The important thing is to begin. 00:40:22.804 --> 00:40:25.954 Let yourself be mentored as I was by Dr. 00:40:25.954 --> 00:40:29.244 Grandin and see what results can follow. 00:40:30.274 --> 00:40:33.204 Go to this website, newtrailslearning. 00:40:35.474 --> 00:40:37.979 com Sign up as a gold member. 00:40:38.419 --> 00:40:41.309 Take the online movement method course. 00:40:41.799 --> 00:40:43.169 It's in 40 countries. 00:40:43.779 --> 00:40:45.839 Let us know how it goes for you. 00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:46.809 We really want to know. 00:40:46.819 --> 00:40:51.319 We really want to help people like me, people like you, out there 00:40:51.669 --> 00:40:54.949 live their best life, to live free, ride free, see what happens. 00:40:55.989 --> 00:41:01.329 Henrich Berkhoff: A lot of comes from to be a farmer, honestly. 00:41:02.049 --> 00:41:03.564 Rupert Isaacson: I was wondering Yeah, go. 00:41:03.699 --> 00:41:04.239 Go on. 00:41:04.569 --> 00:41:09.699 Henrich Berkhoff: Because if you are working in nature with nature 00:41:09.699 --> 00:41:15.344 with animals you are searching every day for solution in your work life. 00:41:16.704 --> 00:41:21.564 And you are always thinking about, Hey, 00:41:23.694 --> 00:41:28.944 is there another way to do or to get the target? 00:41:29.454 --> 00:41:29.844 Yeah. 00:41:29.994 --> 00:41:31.884 And that is always happened. 00:41:32.274 --> 00:41:43.294 And if you in a family in a like this that every day is asking, Hey, 00:41:43.714 --> 00:41:49.504 there's a rainy day, we want to harvest the corn, what can we do? 00:41:49.504 --> 00:41:50.074 Now? 00:41:50.554 --> 00:41:54.364 You have to deliver every day solution. 00:41:54.574 --> 00:41:57.694 Bigger, smaller ones, but that is normal. 00:41:58.504 --> 00:41:58.924 Yeah. 00:41:59.314 --> 00:42:08.044 And also your responsibility for this decisions every day. 00:42:08.044 --> 00:42:11.224 There is no question who is. 00:42:11.899 --> 00:42:17.024 My my, my, my, my boss and who can I give this question away? 00:42:17.084 --> 00:42:18.284 No, you have to do this. 00:42:18.284 --> 00:42:27.404 And at, at the end of the day you can see, oh yeah, it works or it works not so good. 00:42:28.274 --> 00:42:30.744 Or we try it again tomorrow. 00:42:31.164 --> 00:42:31.374 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:42:31.434 --> 00:42:31.764 Right. 00:42:32.334 --> 00:42:33.384 Henrich Berkhoff: But you have to do this. 00:42:33.774 --> 00:42:34.404 Rupert Isaacson: Yes. 00:42:34.584 --> 00:42:41.284 Henrich Berkhoff: That is think what you may be called Edward advocacy. 00:42:41.284 --> 00:42:41.674 Advocacy. 00:42:42.874 --> 00:42:43.354 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:42:44.044 --> 00:42:48.154 Henrich Berkhoff: And in the relationship to Julian in his way, 00:42:48.154 --> 00:42:51.364 this inclusion that was so helpful. 00:42:52.054 --> 00:42:56.314 The UN have this disability convention. 00:42:57.334 --> 00:43:03.334 They said this sent it out in the world and Germany put 00:43:03.334 --> 00:43:05.674 it in their national rules. 00:43:06.739 --> 00:43:12.799 Laws in 2009 and Julian is born in 2002. 00:43:13.009 --> 00:43:17.449 And you'll see, hey, we are in the school and we have this paper from the 00:43:17.449 --> 00:43:22.009 un and it is also here in German laws. 00:43:22.699 --> 00:43:27.039 We can say at last, please have a look to this laws. 00:43:27.789 --> 00:43:30.789 We, we are in our thinking, we are right. 00:43:31.749 --> 00:43:40.989 But to have the right is a completely other thing to go this way. 00:43:42.249 --> 00:43:50.829 That is not easy to have the rights and no power to make it happen. 00:43:52.929 --> 00:43:58.899 And that means, oh, you have to create solution like a farmer every day. 00:43:59.259 --> 00:44:00.669 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it, it's interesting. 00:44:00.729 --> 00:44:02.259 I like this analogy of. 00:44:03.279 --> 00:44:07.029 You need to harvest the corn, but it's raining and so you 00:44:07.029 --> 00:44:09.549 could lose the whole crop. 00:44:10.029 --> 00:44:10.179 Yeah. 00:44:10.279 --> 00:44:15.889 If one looks at a school or a boss or 00:44:18.469 --> 00:44:24.979 someone with a decision making power saying, I'm going to make a decision 00:44:24.979 --> 00:44:29.599 that is not in your interest or not in the interest of your child 00:44:30.049 --> 00:44:34.729 to look at it like, oh, I see it's raining and I need to get the corn. 00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:43.099 Okay, what would I do on the farm and how does that translate to this situation? 00:44:43.279 --> 00:44:48.799 And I can imagine that that would happen almost subconsciously, that 00:44:48.889 --> 00:44:54.289 you wouldn't necessarily think, okay, corn school, but it would naturally. 00:44:55.369 --> 00:44:59.149 Follow and we started this podcast in nature. 00:44:59.149 --> 00:45:02.629 You came walking outta the forest, you blew that horn. 00:45:02.959 --> 00:45:07.159 You are not just a farmer, you are also a hunter. 00:45:07.909 --> 00:45:08.059 Mm-hmm. 00:45:08.599 --> 00:45:15.649 What is hunting other than following the trail? 00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:21.949 Following the tracks and moment by moment, by moment by moment. 00:45:22.819 --> 00:45:29.329 Having to make a decision that might or might not lead to food. 00:45:30.739 --> 00:45:37.789 And that you also need to have a relationship with all of the dimensions of 00:45:37.789 --> 00:45:45.559 that animal, the animal itself, the land, the habitat, and then the conditions of 00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:51.559 the day, the weather, the, the health of the animal, how is your health as well? 00:45:51.799 --> 00:45:52.579 So it's interesting. 00:45:52.579 --> 00:45:58.939 Talk to me about hunting and how hunting and that particular type of 00:45:58.939 --> 00:46:05.359 relationship with nature helps with this sort of advocacy and problem 00:46:05.359 --> 00:46:08.149 solving career that you have. 00:46:10.669 --> 00:46:11.209 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 00:46:11.509 --> 00:46:18.799 What is the connection to take responsibilities and to be a hunter? 00:46:20.449 --> 00:46:24.229 And that means for me, 00:46:26.359 --> 00:46:29.479 it comes as a child here always. 00:46:29.479 --> 00:46:32.119 We have hunting session at our farm. 00:46:33.049 --> 00:46:38.689 We are allowed to do this in our farm area here, but in the former 00:46:38.689 --> 00:46:43.939 days, the humans always hunter and. 00:46:44.629 --> 00:46:53.899 They are gathering and hunting and some scientists think about, hey, this 00:46:53.899 --> 00:47:04.109 hunting thing to get meat, that means to get energy easier enough and easier 00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:08.374 is then to gathering nuts and so on. 00:47:08.434 --> 00:47:08.854 Mm-hmm. 00:47:08.934 --> 00:47:18.769 And that makes that is one explanation for how to come the human brain 00:47:19.369 --> 00:47:24.769 bigger and bigger and more and more the brain is, needs some much energy. 00:47:25.819 --> 00:47:32.569 And with this hunting thing, it was easier to make, to bring the energy 00:47:33.079 --> 00:47:36.469 in the shortest time to the humans. 00:47:37.579 --> 00:47:38.599 That is interesting. 00:47:38.929 --> 00:47:40.429 And yeah, we. 00:47:41.464 --> 00:47:48.679 We are hunter and gatherer at more than 2.5 00:47:48.679 --> 00:47:49.804 million years. 00:47:50.224 --> 00:47:50.434 Yeah. 00:47:50.434 --> 00:47:50.764 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:47:52.534 --> 00:47:58.624 Henrich Berkhoff: This farming thing comes up maybe 10,000 years here in this region. 00:47:58.684 --> 00:47:59.764 8,000 years. 00:48:00.634 --> 00:48:05.014 And yeah, that was nice. 00:48:05.014 --> 00:48:10.444 And the industry things is maybe 200 years. 00:48:11.074 --> 00:48:11.374 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:48:11.884 --> 00:48:16.654 Henrich Berkhoff: And the digital and the computer thing is maybe, 00:48:16.924 --> 00:48:18.709 you know, the start of the iPhone. 00:48:18.799 --> 00:48:19.099 Yeah. 00:48:19.099 --> 00:48:19.789 Mm-hmm. 00:48:20.569 --> 00:48:25.039 And this is, or the first personal computer from IBM. 00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:25.369 Yeah. 00:48:25.819 --> 00:48:26.554 Where we have, yeah. 00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:26.749 Yeah. 00:48:26.749 --> 00:48:31.039 Rupert Isaacson: I'm wearing the history here on my shirt, the digital world. 00:48:31.459 --> 00:48:32.149 Very recent. 00:48:32.149 --> 00:48:32.479 Yeah. 00:48:32.779 --> 00:48:33.109 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 00:48:33.109 --> 00:48:36.439 And if we put all this time. 00:48:37.499 --> 00:48:40.559 On the, on the line at 60 minutes. 00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:41.459 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:48:41.789 --> 00:48:49.849 Henrich Berkhoff: That means we have 59 minutes time from this one 00:48:49.909 --> 00:48:57.019 hour as we, we are in the world on a, at the hunter and gatherer. 00:48:57.589 --> 00:49:03.559 15, nine minutes, maybe 30 seconds As a farmer. 00:49:04.069 --> 00:49:04.369 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:49:04.999 --> 00:49:08.419 Henrich Berkhoff: And the rest you cannot stop it. 00:49:08.779 --> 00:49:10.939 It's less than one second. 00:49:12.529 --> 00:49:12.979 Yeah. 00:49:14.689 --> 00:49:22.849 We are created by the nature, for the nature and not for all these 00:49:23.059 --> 00:49:25.429 other things we cannot handle. 00:49:25.759 --> 00:49:30.589 Maybe in 2 million years we have an interface here, 00:49:30.589 --> 00:49:33.919 whatever, but not in this time. 00:49:34.549 --> 00:49:34.939 Rupert Isaacson: Mm. 00:49:35.299 --> 00:49:43.579 Henrich Berkhoff: And more and more people are have problems with 00:49:43.669 --> 00:49:53.089 this, with this times, with this computer and with this big cities. 00:49:53.089 --> 00:49:59.429 And with that is also thousand of information, thousand of 00:49:59.759 --> 00:50:02.279 people are bombing your brain. 00:50:02.759 --> 00:50:03.209 Mm. 00:50:03.869 --> 00:50:06.209 We are not made for this. 00:50:06.269 --> 00:50:07.079 We can handle it. 00:50:07.109 --> 00:50:14.639 Yes, of course, but it is more and more people are struggling to do this. 00:50:15.509 --> 00:50:22.419 You can manage your, your, your, your environment. 00:50:22.419 --> 00:50:27.699 How in if you walk, can walk in a forest one day in this direction, 00:50:27.699 --> 00:50:28.899 one day in this direction. 00:50:28.899 --> 00:50:29.109 Yes. 00:50:29.109 --> 00:50:30.544 You have all this knowledge. 00:50:32.004 --> 00:50:36.684 You, you know exactly where can I, I have nice water to drink. 00:50:37.044 --> 00:50:38.664 Where can I collect honey? 00:50:38.904 --> 00:50:43.334 Where can I hope, luckily I can hunt deer. 00:50:43.994 --> 00:50:52.244 That is what we created for not for this thousand of information every second. 00:50:52.874 --> 00:50:53.024 Yeah. 00:50:53.089 --> 00:50:55.874 And especially have a look to the kiddos. 00:50:56.414 --> 00:51:04.934 This, they, they are in the age of four years, they get their first mobile phone. 00:51:05.654 --> 00:51:06.014 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:51:06.764 --> 00:51:14.294 Henrich Berkhoff: That it's not the, that is, I, I think you can start 00:51:14.444 --> 00:51:17.804 with a mobile phone in the age of 14. 00:51:18.284 --> 00:51:19.304 That makes sense. 00:51:21.164 --> 00:51:27.674 But that is too much information to have good, healthy. 00:51:28.709 --> 00:51:30.029 Developed for your brain, 00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:30.959 Rupert Isaacson: right? 00:51:31.139 --> 00:51:33.269 You know, what's interesting about what you say? 00:51:33.299 --> 00:51:37.889 The million things coming in, in information, I would 00:51:37.889 --> 00:51:40.529 say that nature does that. 00:51:41.429 --> 00:51:46.019 Nature gives you 1 million things coming in all the time. 00:51:46.109 --> 00:51:52.419 Let's say you, not even if you're hunting or gathering but even if you're 00:51:52.419 --> 00:52:00.789 just walking between the temperature of the air, the direction of the wind, 00:52:01.209 --> 00:52:05.379 the different senses, the all of the things coming through your sensors, 00:52:05.889 --> 00:52:10.389 all the decisions you need to make with each place you put your feet. 00:52:10.809 --> 00:52:15.579 Because each time you put your foot to the ground, if you make a 00:52:15.579 --> 00:52:18.099 wrong decision, boom, down you go. 00:52:18.879 --> 00:52:22.359 I would argue that nature actually does. 00:52:23.124 --> 00:52:29.844 Do this thing of 1 million different things, but it does it in a way 00:52:29.904 --> 00:52:38.544 that our brain is designed for and absolutely this other digital thing, 00:52:39.264 --> 00:52:45.864 it's not designed for, but as you say, it can make a connection from one to 00:52:45.864 --> 00:52:51.894 the other perhaps when the brain has reached a certain point of development. 00:52:52.614 --> 00:52:57.084 This leads me to the next thing I want to ask you about. 00:52:57.294 --> 00:52:59.664 You are now also a politician. 00:53:00.474 --> 00:53:05.664 You are with the CDU in Germany, the Christian Democratic Union. 00:53:05.724 --> 00:53:05.934 Yeah. 00:53:06.624 --> 00:53:11.424 Obviously you have this background in advocacy, but why did you decide. 00:53:12.114 --> 00:53:19.024 On top of your stuff with the child protection agency on top of 00:53:19.024 --> 00:53:25.834 being a full-time farmer on top of running the therapeutic programs 00:53:25.954 --> 00:53:30.224 with your wife, giddy that you currently run on the farm as well. 00:53:30.404 --> 00:53:36.084 Why did you decide to add this because this is not a small thing 00:53:36.864 --> 00:53:39.174 just to get elected, it's a big thing. 00:53:39.594 --> 00:53:44.244 Why did you decide politics and why did you decide that 00:53:44.244 --> 00:53:47.064 particular area of politics? 00:53:47.214 --> 00:53:51.744 And for those who, that particular party for, for those listeners 00:53:51.744 --> 00:53:56.214 or viewers who are not familiar with the German system, the CDU is 00:53:56.214 --> 00:53:58.104 actually currently in government. 00:53:58.464 --> 00:53:59.334 So. 00:54:00.444 --> 00:54:00.954 Yeah. 00:54:01.014 --> 00:54:02.154 Good position for everybody knows 00:54:02.154 --> 00:54:02.634 Henrich Berkhoff: Mrs. 00:54:02.634 --> 00:54:03.324 Angela Merkel. 00:54:03.324 --> 00:54:03.384 Yeah. 00:54:03.804 --> 00:54:09.364 And she also, and Ham would call all this great leaders of our party. 00:54:09.754 --> 00:54:09.964 Yeah. 00:54:09.964 --> 00:54:14.554 And they make decisions that brings Germany cool. 00:54:14.554 --> 00:54:16.144 And powerful. 00:54:16.684 --> 00:54:22.379 And the first counselor of Germany after the Second World War was also a anar. 00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:23.734 Was that a Anar? 00:54:23.734 --> 00:54:24.634 Yes, of course. 00:54:24.634 --> 00:54:24.694 Yeah. 00:54:24.754 --> 00:54:32.204 And he bring Germany back to the world break, and then he create this great thing 00:54:32.204 --> 00:54:39.019 with France to make the y And Germany was not allowed at this time, but Germany 00:54:39.089 --> 00:54:42.089 said, Hey, we have this shitty, wrong way. 00:54:42.449 --> 00:54:45.959 It cost 60 million people their their lives. 00:54:46.499 --> 00:54:52.224 And now it does it, it do not happened again. 00:54:52.914 --> 00:54:53.634 Never, never. 00:54:53.904 --> 00:54:56.664 And please, we are now in this way. 00:54:57.174 --> 00:55:04.404 And, okay, how I decided to do this, it was easy if you have question 00:55:04.854 --> 00:55:09.994 and I I'm thought, oh, this is not okay, and this is not okay. 00:55:09.994 --> 00:55:13.739 And please do this in the other way to the courts, to the 00:55:13.979 --> 00:55:15.779 cities, to the administration. 00:55:16.439 --> 00:55:23.439 But yes, you have to do and put your thing in this your, this. 00:55:24.219 --> 00:55:24.864 Mr. 00:55:24.864 --> 00:55:28.549 Kennedy, he has a good speaking thing. 00:55:28.969 --> 00:55:35.949 He don't ask what the government can give or can do for you. 00:55:37.219 --> 00:55:41.539 You have to think about what can I give to your society, to 00:55:41.539 --> 00:55:44.119 your to your tribe, to whatever. 00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:44.209 Mm-hmm. 00:55:44.449 --> 00:55:45.619 That is the question. 00:55:45.619 --> 00:55:49.699 And if you say, Hey, this is I that is not okay. 00:55:50.059 --> 00:55:50.689 Yeah, please. 00:55:50.734 --> 00:55:53.479 You, you have to chance to do it in your way. 00:55:53.959 --> 00:55:58.549 And that is one of the reason I decided to make this politician. 00:55:59.299 --> 00:56:00.379 And yeah. 00:56:00.379 --> 00:56:09.139 And it was, it, it, it is cool if you are you know, politician means not you 00:56:09.139 --> 00:56:11.359 are in and everything has happened. 00:56:11.359 --> 00:56:18.719 Like, thinking in, you have to handle out the best solution with 00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:24.629 your own politicians, friends, and with other parties also. 00:56:25.379 --> 00:56:27.509 And that is what we do every day. 00:56:27.569 --> 00:56:28.019 It's. 00:56:28.694 --> 00:56:31.214 A little step, but it's okay. 00:56:31.274 --> 00:56:41.594 I think to do this, you need time and, but in, at the end, all the 00:56:41.834 --> 00:56:45.224 people wants to have security. 00:56:45.644 --> 00:56:49.334 They want to have quiet peace time. 00:56:49.754 --> 00:56:50.834 That is all the same. 00:56:51.794 --> 00:56:52.244 Yeah. 00:56:53.774 --> 00:57:01.484 Some days the, the way is a little bit different, but in the main parties we have 00:57:01.484 --> 00:57:05.084 here, not at the left or at the right. 00:57:05.594 --> 00:57:07.694 That is not the best. 00:57:07.814 --> 00:57:13.754 But mostly the people want to have this targets in, in their life. 00:57:14.324 --> 00:57:14.684 Yeah. 00:57:14.774 --> 00:57:15.764 And they can grow up. 00:57:15.764 --> 00:57:15.854 And 00:57:15.869 --> 00:57:18.854 Rupert Isaacson: you, you, the CDU that you are a, a member of, 00:57:18.854 --> 00:57:23.174 this is a very, you could say it's a middle, middle way party. 00:57:23.444 --> 00:57:23.744 Yeah. 00:57:23.954 --> 00:57:25.334 You are a believer in nature. 00:57:27.459 --> 00:57:34.869 You are a believer in the necessity of nature and movement in schools 00:57:34.869 --> 00:57:38.049 in childhood for even for adults. 00:57:38.049 --> 00:57:41.349 You, this has really become your life. 00:57:42.009 --> 00:57:47.979 Tell me, what are you doing as a politician to try to get this 00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:52.359 idea back into the mainstream? 00:57:52.359 --> 00:57:56.349 'cause just before you begin, you could have gone to the green party. 00:57:57.079 --> 00:58:00.559 Even though yes, you're a hunter, you're a farmer, but you're very much an ecologist 00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:02.569 as well, you're an organic farmer. 00:58:02.959 --> 00:58:05.419 So someone might say, oh, you could go to the greens. 00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:10.279 Why the CDU with your environmental outlook? 00:58:11.299 --> 00:58:11.989 Please explain, 00:58:14.119 --> 00:58:18.049 Henrich Berkhoff: ah, that is, in the, in my party, there is 00:58:18.049 --> 00:58:20.149 a conservative thinking way. 00:58:21.019 --> 00:58:26.309 They not make decisions like so fast. 00:58:26.729 --> 00:58:26.849 Mm-hmm. 00:58:27.179 --> 00:58:33.689 And they're thinking, ah, please remember the old days and this, and yeah. 00:58:33.694 --> 00:58:37.289 The, the agriculture thing is the same. 00:58:37.339 --> 00:58:45.899 If there's something happened, it needs time and more and more other ideas come 00:58:45.899 --> 00:58:51.059 up and they, sometimes they're cool. 00:58:51.149 --> 00:58:51.719 Okay. 00:58:52.079 --> 00:59:00.089 And that makes a different agriculture thinking and all this is same was 00:59:00.539 --> 00:59:02.339 what I am thinking in my party. 00:59:02.849 --> 00:59:03.059 Mm-hmm. 00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:07.859 If with this ideas that is not the mainstream. 00:59:08.939 --> 00:59:17.679 It's in the interesting, interesting thing to put this information in the discussion. 00:59:18.309 --> 00:59:24.459 And if you come back with a reason, Hey, have a look what happened in nature. 00:59:24.879 --> 00:59:30.529 What happened with a agriculture example for this. 00:59:31.799 --> 00:59:40.619 My father was asked in 1900 seventies to make all the hedges and ditches plain 00:59:41.519 --> 00:59:43.889 to make the best agriculture thing. 00:59:44.459 --> 00:59:49.889 It is easier to have big fields, and it's for the economy, is it easier? 00:59:50.189 --> 00:59:54.149 And he said, no, I have no, no interest. 00:59:55.109 --> 00:59:58.769 And this idea come from the government, from the local government. 00:59:58.769 --> 01:00:00.449 They, they give money for this. 01:00:00.449 --> 01:00:00.554 They have. 01:00:01.364 --> 01:00:11.064 And now in 2000, we have a plan to rewild to make, and they come here 01:00:11.184 --> 01:00:15.714 and talk to me and say, Hey, you have this ditches and you have this hedges. 01:00:16.074 --> 01:00:19.604 Thank you for the that you have this one. 01:00:19.694 --> 01:00:26.624 I think, Hey, you guys, you come 40 years earlier to my father and make it plain. 01:00:26.624 --> 01:00:29.804 And now you say thank you for me. 01:00:30.464 --> 01:00:36.524 And hey, you have to think about other dimensions. 01:00:36.794 --> 01:00:37.064 Yeah. 01:00:37.069 --> 01:00:37.129 Yeah. 01:00:37.724 --> 01:00:39.164 And that is what I bring in. 01:00:39.674 --> 01:00:41.294 And it is nice. 01:00:41.384 --> 01:00:42.344 It works. 01:00:43.424 --> 01:00:55.524 And the, this other thinking and you, you, you speak about, frame everything you do. 01:00:55.524 --> 01:00:55.614 Mm-hmm. 01:00:55.914 --> 01:00:56.724 Rupert Isaacson: Reframing, yeah. 01:00:56.724 --> 01:00:58.374 Reframe everything and completely. 01:00:58.374 --> 01:00:58.524 We 01:00:58.884 --> 01:01:01.584 Henrich Berkhoff: have no time to do this, but Please. 01:01:02.454 --> 01:01:05.034 Sometimes you have to do and you have to think. 01:01:05.454 --> 01:01:05.754 Yeah. 01:01:05.964 --> 01:01:13.524 And also if this Japanese people, if you had in a discussion with 01:01:13.524 --> 01:01:19.734 the Japanese people in their culture, they are not directly to 01:01:19.734 --> 01:01:22.424 you and bump you on at the nose. 01:01:23.624 --> 01:01:29.444 They give you in every discussion, they give you a chance to 01:01:29.444 --> 01:01:34.364 escape, to hold your face up. 01:01:35.414 --> 01:01:39.794 They give you the chance to do this, and that is so cool. 01:01:40.574 --> 01:01:44.029 And if you have this in, in, in your thinking. 01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:47.669 You can be a politician with success. 01:01:49.229 --> 01:01:53.149 Rupert Isaacson: What I know for example, you were just in Berlin with a 01:01:53.149 --> 01:01:55.449 mutual friend of ours David Doyle Yeah. 01:01:55.449 --> 01:01:55.539 Henrich Berkhoff: From 01:01:55.749 --> 01:01:56.289 Rupert Isaacson: Ireland. 01:01:56.649 --> 01:01:57.429 And you were, 01:01:59.644 --> 01:02:03.999 so for those listeners, I wish we could get David Doyle to come on a podcast. 01:02:04.119 --> 01:02:05.439 He's so shy, he won't come. 01:02:05.439 --> 01:02:08.829 You have to do this, but maybe we can put him under pressure. 01:02:09.139 --> 01:02:14.509 David Doyle, for those who do not know him is another autism dad in Ireland 01:02:14.629 --> 01:02:19.999 who has pioneered equine therapy and therapies through movement and with 01:02:19.999 --> 01:02:26.149 neuroscience to the point that in Ireland now, the government will back and pay 01:02:26.149 --> 01:02:28.679 for these therapies starting last year. 01:02:28.679 --> 01:02:32.999 He's an absolute force of nature, very kind, very unassuming man. 01:02:33.549 --> 01:02:36.279 And you, and he just went to Berlin. 01:02:36.834 --> 01:02:41.454 To government headquarters in, in, in Germany to talk about this sort of thing. 01:02:41.664 --> 01:02:43.644 What, what are you trying to achieve there? 01:02:43.674 --> 01:02:45.924 What would be your ideal goal? 01:02:46.104 --> 01:02:54.054 What in terms of nature, agriculture, and special needs and equine therapies 01:02:54.684 --> 01:03:00.234 in your perfect world in 20 years, what would the government there in 01:03:00.234 --> 01:03:03.504 Germany be doing in these areas? 01:03:05.154 --> 01:03:06.804 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, thank you for David. 01:03:07.074 --> 01:03:10.979 He, they makes a great job in Ireland. 01:03:11.009 --> 01:03:12.899 And that is a European country too. 01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:13.469 Yeah. 01:03:13.529 --> 01:03:20.159 And we have some thoughts about, hey, how to put it in in other countries and 01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:25.019 to make this idea from nature healing. 01:03:26.129 --> 01:03:27.029 It's my word. 01:03:27.329 --> 01:03:27.479 Okay. 01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:32.099 It means why agriculture, animals, and nature. 01:03:33.044 --> 01:03:38.454 Can do more than just a system of produce food. 01:03:39.564 --> 01:03:45.144 There is so many healing spaces in this thinking. 01:03:45.144 --> 01:03:45.234 Right. 01:03:45.744 --> 01:03:49.224 And he, he did it in Ireland, successful. 01:03:49.224 --> 01:03:55.684 And we we create our farm here and we call it now Green Care Farm. 01:03:56.224 --> 01:03:56.314 Mm-hmm. 01:03:56.554 --> 01:04:04.564 Because in the beginning with Julian, we start with a horse thing. 01:04:05.464 --> 01:04:12.014 GI is, since she was a young lady in contact with horses and then we 01:04:12.014 --> 01:04:15.404 create, make it healing with horses. 01:04:16.574 --> 01:04:21.044 We started, we have three little ponies here and we started, and more and more 01:04:21.044 --> 01:04:23.384 people are visiting us and say, Hey. 01:04:23.494 --> 01:04:29.144 Looks very cool and can you do this for this our child? 01:04:29.234 --> 01:04:38.839 And then it grows up more and more and the families called up to us three 01:04:38.839 --> 01:04:43.009 weeks later and said, Hey, if we have bad times, now we are thinking about 01:04:43.429 --> 01:04:47.179 the time at your farm in the nature. 01:04:47.269 --> 01:04:48.859 And they are helping us. 01:04:49.339 --> 01:04:54.829 They pick up the ps, they bring the feed to the animals and all the, they 01:04:54.829 --> 01:05:01.039 are working here and gi and I asking each other, Hey, what, what happened? 01:05:01.429 --> 01:05:02.509 They, they are so happy. 01:05:02.509 --> 01:05:06.319 They, they give us money for, to, to make the work. 01:05:07.309 --> 01:05:09.919 No, there is so much more. 01:05:10.489 --> 01:05:13.939 They are, they, they feel useful. 01:05:13.999 --> 01:05:17.389 They feel in the nice environment. 01:05:17.929 --> 01:05:26.149 They feel the human environment and that gives them some cool 01:05:26.149 --> 01:05:28.469 energy and so good thoughts. 01:05:29.009 --> 01:05:33.389 And if they are remembering only remembering the time of 01:05:33.389 --> 01:05:35.639 the farm here, they feel better. 01:05:36.659 --> 01:05:40.619 And this is how we come on the way. 01:05:40.619 --> 01:05:45.839 And yeah, we, we feel it, but we have no idea what happened 01:05:45.929 --> 01:05:47.219 and why it happened, right? 01:05:47.999 --> 01:05:54.314 And that's changed If we have I, I, I, I found clinic and 01:05:54.349 --> 01:05:56.569 it called Horse Boy Method. 01:05:57.739 --> 01:06:01.069 I think, Hey, what, what they are doing there and am read, 01:06:01.369 --> 01:06:04.129 they go outside in nature, follow the child, blah, blah, blah. 01:06:04.399 --> 01:06:04.999 Say, Hey 01:06:07.189 --> 01:06:07.759 look here. 01:06:07.759 --> 01:06:10.459 That is similar to what we do. 01:06:11.014 --> 01:06:11.764 We have no idea. 01:06:11.764 --> 01:06:14.284 We, we do it because we feel it. 01:06:14.554 --> 01:06:15.724 That is good feeling. 01:06:15.724 --> 01:06:17.224 And that is, they're laughing. 01:06:17.224 --> 01:06:19.624 They, they like it to do and they come back. 01:06:20.344 --> 01:06:28.844 And now we have the chance to visit this clinic in 2070. 01:06:29.809 --> 01:06:36.104 And I sent GI there because hey, horse, horse things is more GIS things, but 01:06:36.204 --> 01:06:43.824 they now, I I am, we, we, we create an active stable for the horses in 2015. 01:06:43.824 --> 01:06:44.334 And I you 01:06:44.334 --> 01:06:46.344 Rupert Isaacson: where the horses live outside in a natural way. 01:06:46.404 --> 01:06:47.634 Yeah, that is right. 01:06:47.784 --> 01:06:50.934 Henrich Berkhoff: And we have 35 horses here on our farm. 01:06:51.324 --> 01:06:57.594 And so we, I ask how is the best environment for the horses? 01:06:57.954 --> 01:07:02.064 And the easiest thing is let them outside. 01:07:02.784 --> 01:07:03.714 That makes. 01:07:04.524 --> 01:07:06.834 Reduce all the problems they have. 01:07:07.284 --> 01:07:14.134 I asked the VE veterans here at the ecu and he said, Hey, if the 01:07:14.194 --> 01:07:18.614 outside, we have this, this, and this problems, we have solved this. 01:07:18.764 --> 01:07:19.214 Okay? 01:07:19.694 --> 01:07:28.034 And then more and more I am in the horse world and hey, GI starts with a normal 01:07:28.614 --> 01:07:34.884 stuff of riding if everybody here in the area starts for the competition and so on. 01:07:35.634 --> 01:07:36.864 I'm not interested. 01:07:37.404 --> 01:07:39.784 Interesting in this competition thing. 01:07:40.489 --> 01:07:45.634 Maybe in the evening, they have a nice parties after competition that, that 01:07:45.639 --> 01:07:49.159 was nice, but not this competition. 01:07:49.219 --> 01:07:50.089 It's not for me. 01:07:50.119 --> 01:07:56.969 But GI starts to make this ground the work from the ground with the horses and 01:07:56.969 --> 01:07:59.159 makes all the horsemen stuff and so on. 01:07:59.159 --> 01:08:02.309 And then, then I recognize, hey, that is cool. 01:08:02.639 --> 01:08:10.469 How is the way the horse knows where they had to go without the rope 01:08:11.459 --> 01:08:14.039 Come this from then I start, okay? 01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:22.229 We, we, we change our farm to this green care farm because we have the idea what 01:08:22.289 --> 01:08:26.069 is the science behind happiness in nature? 01:08:26.459 --> 01:08:30.749 What is the science behind the movement? 01:08:31.409 --> 01:08:39.029 And that is starts in this, time in 2017, we have this course here, and Giddy 01:08:39.029 --> 01:08:44.369 called me up, Hey, after one hour or one and a half hours, she called me up and 01:08:44.369 --> 01:08:47.069 said, Hey Henry, that is so cool here. 01:08:47.729 --> 01:08:55.269 Now I have an idea what is working in the human, what is the hormone 01:08:55.509 --> 01:09:03.129 thing we, and what is the reason that people are so yeah, so lucky 01:09:03.549 --> 01:09:05.589 and that people are so powerful now. 01:09:06.219 --> 01:09:12.909 And then she comes back and yeah, we can make this online course on the n tls.com. 01:09:13.089 --> 01:09:13.449 Co. 01:09:13.509 --> 01:09:13.959 Sorry. 01:09:14.559 --> 01:09:22.199 And on the trainer said, or you can visit this farm in Austin, Texas. 01:09:22.979 --> 01:09:25.529 And I said, gi, you have to go there. 01:09:25.979 --> 01:09:29.849 That is there, there come the idea from, please have a look there. 01:09:29.999 --> 01:09:36.559 That is really it says, yeah, please, you have to go there. 01:09:37.639 --> 01:09:45.949 And two days later, I thought, a 14 days in Austin to have all 01:09:45.949 --> 01:09:47.749 this horse boy movement stuff. 01:09:48.349 --> 01:09:52.339 And then she had to explain me this later. 01:09:52.549 --> 01:09:54.259 It cost another week. 01:09:55.039 --> 01:10:03.679 And so we decided to go both to the, in January, nobody has this idea to 01:10:03.679 --> 01:10:06.079 go in January to Austin and Texas, 01:10:06.529 --> 01:10:07.549 Rupert Isaacson: one of the nicest months, 01:10:09.169 --> 01:10:09.619 Henrich Berkhoff: but. 01:10:10.189 --> 01:10:12.829 That was so cool. 01:10:12.949 --> 01:10:19.789 And they opened all this signs behind and how to handle and all this tribe. 01:10:19.789 --> 01:10:26.749 And then we are back and we changed the farm in the green care farm thing. 01:10:27.769 --> 01:10:38.859 And this two, two weeks later in 2018, in January, we make a, a 01:10:38.859 --> 01:10:41.139 little path in our forest here. 01:10:41.799 --> 01:10:42.069 Mm. 01:10:42.129 --> 01:10:45.819 And somebody says, Hey, no, they are very stupid. 01:10:46.629 --> 01:10:52.629 They come back from wherever there was were, wherever there was, and 01:10:52.659 --> 01:10:57.039 now they make a trail here in the Forest Park what has happened. 01:10:58.089 --> 01:11:03.379 And yeah, we, we, we start with to do this and. 01:11:04.129 --> 01:11:07.969 The humans, the people, the families there come here. 01:11:08.569 --> 01:11:11.539 They say, they say thank you to us. 01:11:12.109 --> 01:11:13.249 That is a good feeling. 01:11:13.249 --> 01:11:19.309 Hey, we, we make this service sometimes for not so easy people 01:11:19.309 --> 01:11:21.529 because they have some problems. 01:11:21.529 --> 01:11:24.929 They have so many disabled things. 01:11:25.619 --> 01:11:29.579 But the nature give us the answer. 01:11:30.149 --> 01:11:35.579 They come down, they feel better and they feel good. 01:11:36.539 --> 01:11:37.799 And that comes from the nature. 01:11:38.069 --> 01:11:43.559 And we offered the way to the nature because we know yes, 01:11:44.669 --> 01:11:46.619 the nature is the answer. 01:11:48.539 --> 01:11:51.949 Rupert Isaacson: If you made it this far into the podcast, then I'm 01:11:51.949 --> 01:11:56.629 guessing you're somebody that, like me, loves to read books about not 01:11:56.629 --> 01:12:00.529 just how people have achieved self actualization, but particularly 01:12:00.549 --> 01:12:04.239 about the relationship with nature. 01:12:04.689 --> 01:12:07.869 Spirituality, life, the universe, and everything. 01:12:08.609 --> 01:12:11.559 And I'd like to draw your attention to my books. 01:12:11.569 --> 01:12:16.249 If you would like to read the story of how we even arrived here, perhaps 01:12:16.249 --> 01:12:20.709 you'd like to check out the two New York Times bestsellers, The Horseboy 01:12:21.409 --> 01:12:26.379 and The Long Ride Home, and come on an adventure with us and see what engendered, 01:12:26.439 --> 01:12:28.589 what started Live Free Ride Free. 01:12:28.609 --> 01:12:32.389 And before we go back to the podcast, also check out The Healing 01:12:32.389 --> 01:12:34.879 Land, which tells the story of. 01:12:35.584 --> 01:12:40.974 My years spent in the Kalahari with the Sun, Bushmen, hunter gatherer people 01:12:40.974 --> 01:12:45.134 there, and all that they taught me, and mentored me in, and all that I learned. 01:12:45.384 --> 01:12:46.644 Come on that adventure with me. 01:12:46.668 --> 01:12:51.318 So in 20 years, in your perfect world, or even sooner in five years 01:12:51.678 --> 01:12:57.108 does the government, not just in Germany, but perhaps in the eu. 01:12:58.383 --> 01:13:10.293 Begin to give money for people to use nature for mental health 01:13:13.983 --> 01:13:22.893 in a way that becomes universal and that we can see countryside being 01:13:24.183 --> 01:13:30.383 rewild as well as farmed both but with 01:13:32.948 --> 01:13:38.408 government policies on how to use this nature for the benefit 01:13:39.158 --> 01:13:41.648 of society, not just food. 01:13:42.578 --> 01:13:45.458 Is that kind of the end goal really? 01:13:46.478 --> 01:13:46.658 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:13:46.658 --> 01:13:54.228 That is one of the reasons we visit this politicians in Berlin and. 01:13:55.173 --> 01:13:59.613 We have the meeting there and we open this 01:14:02.283 --> 01:14:03.453 reframe thing. 01:14:04.293 --> 01:14:04.353 Mm. 01:14:04.443 --> 01:14:10.893 Because there is a, this politician is a circle of the horse world, the 01:14:10.953 --> 01:14:17.073 business, the sports, the Olympic sports also, and they have all this 01:14:17.103 --> 01:14:26.463 breeding things and they have not discovered what is a big, big advantage 01:14:27.513 --> 01:14:33.543 to use the horse for other people. 01:14:33.993 --> 01:14:34.353 Yeah. 01:14:34.383 --> 01:14:39.243 And that works not only for disabled people, that works for every people. 01:14:40.473 --> 01:14:48.393 The, the, the per, for example, the AU autism people, they have the best, 01:14:48.933 --> 01:14:53.463 feelings to know what is good for them. 01:14:54.243 --> 01:14:57.453 And if the autism people, we love it. 01:14:57.933 --> 01:15:05.193 They come to our farm and they so honest to our, to, to, to everybody. 01:15:05.223 --> 01:15:05.613 Yeah. 01:15:05.613 --> 01:15:06.843 And they say, Hey, that is cool. 01:15:06.843 --> 01:15:07.653 That is not cool. 01:15:07.803 --> 01:15:08.433 Easy. 01:15:08.583 --> 01:15:16.153 And they go to the next but that they have the feeling what is good for the humans? 01:15:16.183 --> 01:15:18.733 What is the They have no ego. 01:15:18.913 --> 01:15:19.273 Yeah. 01:15:19.333 --> 01:15:20.833 They, they said That is okay. 01:15:20.833 --> 01:15:21.493 That's not okay. 01:15:22.243 --> 01:15:27.253 And they ended up with the animals and with the nature mostly. 01:15:28.153 --> 01:15:37.453 And that was a ta one of the targets to show how fits agriculture. 01:15:38.083 --> 01:15:43.753 That means all the horse stuff, health and also education. 01:15:44.593 --> 01:15:44.863 Rupert Isaacson: Mm. 01:15:45.373 --> 01:15:46.003 Henrich Berkhoff: Together. 01:15:47.233 --> 01:15:52.513 And that is a big, big universe we open. 01:15:52.518 --> 01:15:52.598 Yeah. 01:15:54.063 --> 01:15:55.443 Rupert Isaacson: It's so interesting, isn't it? 01:15:55.443 --> 01:16:02.193 When you live the sort of life that you live or I live, it's so obvious that 01:16:02.573 --> 01:16:07.763 all of these points connect education, mental health, physical health. 01:16:08.903 --> 01:16:10.043 That was so crazy. 01:16:10.403 --> 01:16:14.063 But it's so bizarre that one has to convince any of your body office. 01:16:14.063 --> 01:16:14.363 Yeah, 01:16:14.723 --> 01:16:18.083 Henrich Berkhoff: I, they, they, they, they're listening to us in this 01:16:18.083 --> 01:16:23.548 conference room and they asking our all this question and we say, yeah, 01:16:23.668 --> 01:16:26.608 the solution is movement, nature. 01:16:26.968 --> 01:16:28.048 Oh, this problem. 01:16:28.048 --> 01:16:28.288 Yeah. 01:16:28.288 --> 01:16:29.788 Solution is movement. 01:16:29.878 --> 01:16:33.988 Nature, animals, perhaps they bring it you in the nature. 01:16:34.648 --> 01:16:37.638 And that is a the universe. 01:16:38.733 --> 01:16:41.223 Ah, that was so funny. 01:16:41.643 --> 01:16:44.133 Yeah, they, they are politicians. 01:16:44.163 --> 01:16:45.513 That's an interesting point. 01:16:45.513 --> 01:16:51.153 They talk about the economy from this. 01:16:51.153 --> 01:16:55.693 So, this system we have the health system in Germany and the system 01:16:55.693 --> 01:17:01.543 for socialization, all this, you get money for, to have your own 01:17:01.593 --> 01:17:06.933 flat, you have to, all this costs are growing more and more and more. 01:17:07.298 --> 01:17:07.588 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:17:08.073 --> 01:17:08.493 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:17:08.853 --> 01:17:12.243 If you have this line on the chart, it's the same line. 01:17:12.813 --> 01:17:15.793 More and more becomes people on the world. 01:17:15.793 --> 01:17:19.088 More and more becomes digitalization. 01:17:19.208 --> 01:17:19.628 Yeah. 01:17:19.688 --> 01:17:21.918 There's the same rates. 01:17:22.458 --> 01:17:23.748 They go higher. 01:17:24.048 --> 01:17:28.908 And more and more cost is for the health industries. 01:17:29.733 --> 01:17:40.143 They give your this Americans and, and, and, but we, we, Germany is a, a rich 01:17:40.503 --> 01:17:47.763 country, but we come at the end to make this happen, we have to solve money. 01:17:48.993 --> 01:17:55.603 And then they ask, Hey, we have to discuss discuss in this future in Berlin. 01:17:55.963 --> 01:18:01.723 They have to discuss all the systems, bring it down on the other level that is 01:18:02.543 --> 01:18:06.303 next they, we can we have money for this. 01:18:06.393 --> 01:18:06.723 Rupert Isaacson: Right? 01:18:06.723 --> 01:18:09.573 And this is where David Doyle has been so amazing. 01:18:09.573 --> 01:18:13.833 So he proved, just for listeners who don't know of this, he proved 01:18:13.833 --> 01:18:17.513 to the Irish government who have a ministry of disability that's, it's 01:18:17.513 --> 01:18:24.023 quite enlightened that with autistic adult males who had a history. 01:18:24.548 --> 01:18:30.468 Habit of violence and many of whom would need maybe four people with 01:18:30.468 --> 01:18:36.738 them, which is costing the government more than 1 million euros, closer to 01:18:36.738 --> 01:18:38.898 2 million euros per year per person. 01:18:39.108 --> 01:18:45.168 He showed that with movement method, he could bring that down to one person, 01:18:45.438 --> 01:18:50.028 which was saving the government more than a million euros per person per year. 01:18:50.208 --> 01:18:55.428 And he gathered the data on this over five years and made his case. 01:18:55.428 --> 01:19:01.818 And what happened in 2024 with the Irish government then saying, okay, we will 01:19:01.818 --> 01:19:04.338 support this movement in nature thing. 01:19:04.368 --> 01:19:05.028 Absolutely. 01:19:05.388 --> 01:19:11.098 It's great to see that you guys are now taking it into into Germany because 01:19:11.098 --> 01:19:15.838 of course if something happens there, then it goes to the rest of the eu. 01:19:16.478 --> 01:19:17.468 It's amazing work. 01:19:17.528 --> 01:19:20.648 And you were talking about the other, I think. 01:19:21.533 --> 01:19:26.363 As we sort of move towards the two hour mark, the last thing I would like to 01:19:26.723 --> 01:19:32.543 ask you about is the work that you're doing to bring this into education. 01:19:32.723 --> 01:19:39.623 So you have started for some years now doing what you call Bienhoff Pedagogic. 01:19:39.683 --> 01:19:45.773 We are meaning farm, farm school effectively farm teaching. 01:19:46.163 --> 01:19:51.503 So where the local schools to your, in your town bring their kids out. 01:19:52.073 --> 01:19:56.573 Not just to experience the farm, but actually to have academics on the farm. 01:19:56.573 --> 01:20:01.643 This is fantastic and I know that you are now training other people in 01:20:01.643 --> 01:20:06.173 Germany how to do this and going out to other places and even now making an 01:20:06.173 --> 01:20:10.493 initiative across the border with the Netherlands to start doing the same thing. 01:20:10.763 --> 01:20:13.433 Can you just tell us a little bit about that work? 01:20:14.933 --> 01:20:17.068 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, the thank you. 01:20:18.518 --> 01:20:19.508 To bring it in school. 01:20:19.538 --> 01:20:26.588 We have in Germany a nice, quite section that called dra mm-hmm. 01:20:27.998 --> 01:20:28.748 To learn outside. 01:20:29.918 --> 01:20:35.318 And they have the idea, and that is based in Munich. 01:20:35.528 --> 01:20:38.378 They have the university technical University Munich. 01:20:39.218 --> 01:20:45.588 They, they are just started a big data based program there. 01:20:46.218 --> 01:20:55.563 And we are in four years, we, we visit this first meetings and they say, Hey, we, 01:20:55.568 --> 01:21:03.503 we know if you if you have movement and learning together, you get better results. 01:21:03.653 --> 01:21:07.403 That is not a secret also, that is now. 01:21:08.228 --> 01:21:08.888 Everywhere. 01:21:09.128 --> 01:21:09.398 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:21:09.458 --> 01:21:10.988 All the neuroscientists agree on this. 01:21:10.988 --> 01:21:11.528 Yeah, yeah. 01:21:11.858 --> 01:21:19.538 Henrich Berkhoff: But the question is, hey, why the schools hold to the old 01:21:19.958 --> 01:21:20.558 Rupert Isaacson: system? 01:21:20.918 --> 01:21:21.098 Mm. 01:21:21.098 --> 01:21:21.518 Yeah. 01:21:21.788 --> 01:21:22.958 It's a good question, isn't it? 01:21:23.288 --> 01:21:24.518 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, it's a good question. 01:21:24.518 --> 01:21:30.288 I have no answer, but I have some 1, 2, 3 thoughts about this. 01:21:30.858 --> 01:21:36.738 And then one question, if you are reframing this, where come school from? 01:21:36.858 --> 01:21:37.098 Yeah. 01:21:37.128 --> 01:21:37.368 Mm-hmm. 01:21:37.778 --> 01:21:44.498 The first schools, the first reading and writing things was in the church. 01:21:44.738 --> 01:21:46.988 In the religion, religion thing. 01:21:47.738 --> 01:21:54.018 They, they not allowed everybody to make this reading and writing stuff. 01:21:54.018 --> 01:21:59.268 It is only in the church to do and also later. 01:21:59.643 --> 01:22:05.733 The military comes on this because they have to organize the army and the 01:22:05.733 --> 01:22:12.443 soldiers, and especially the officers how to make this war or what, whatever 01:22:12.803 --> 01:22:19.043 that is, where the school system is in, in later in the industry relations 01:22:19.103 --> 01:22:26.703 time begins 1,870, maybe the first big fabrics come to make all the big 01:22:26.703 --> 01:22:27.183 Rupert Isaacson: factories. 01:22:27.183 --> 01:22:27.423 Yeah, 01:22:27.453 --> 01:22:28.173 Henrich Berkhoff: yeah, yeah. 01:22:28.173 --> 01:22:35.683 They come up and they need this reading and writing stuff for normal workers. 01:22:35.713 --> 01:22:37.183 Oh yeah. 01:22:37.183 --> 01:22:43.333 That is useful to make more cars, make trains, and whatever we need in this time. 01:22:43.393 --> 01:22:43.693 Yeah. 01:22:43.963 --> 01:22:46.603 And then they created codes, not. 01:22:47.173 --> 01:22:52.623 From the thinking and the iCal thing they created, Hey, there's we 01:22:52.623 --> 01:22:57.693 have the soldiers in, in quarters to turn and we make it the same. 01:22:58.083 --> 01:23:03.053 And all kiddos burn in the age of seven have to go there. 01:23:03.473 --> 01:23:08.903 That is, they not asking how to learn is the best way and it, they have 01:23:08.903 --> 01:23:12.113 to organize and, but industrialized. 01:23:12.488 --> 01:23:12.688 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 01:23:12.688 --> 01:23:12.928 Yeah. 01:23:12.933 --> 01:23:13.763 Henrich Berkhoff: Absolutely. 01:23:14.363 --> 01:23:22.073 Some school buildings today, if you saw all the classrooms behind and the long 01:23:22.073 --> 01:23:27.203 floor in the middle and underside the next, that comes from this thinking. 01:23:27.203 --> 01:23:28.103 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 01:23:28.253 --> 01:23:32.063 Henrich Berkhoff: And the teachers have to teach this. 01:23:32.843 --> 01:23:38.423 And the, remember if you have child. 01:23:39.713 --> 01:23:45.383 Until they go to school, they ask you many, many questions to the parents 01:23:45.953 --> 01:23:48.953 every day, every second, every hour. 01:23:49.493 --> 01:23:49.523 Mm. 01:23:49.553 --> 01:23:52.523 Sometimes it is not easy to handle for parents. 01:23:53.153 --> 01:23:53.183 Rupert Isaacson: Mm. 01:23:53.183 --> 01:23:54.683 Henrich Berkhoff: The kiddos have question. 01:23:55.193 --> 01:23:55.673 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:23:56.543 --> 01:23:59.573 Henrich Berkhoff: How is that and how is that and blah blah and this. 01:24:00.173 --> 01:24:04.133 And with the beginning of the school time then. 01:24:04.133 --> 01:24:04.313 Yeah. 01:24:04.463 --> 01:24:04.943 It's so true. 01:24:05.693 --> 01:24:10.763 They were asked by the teacher, Hey, is that the best way to learn? 01:24:11.303 --> 01:24:11.933 No. 01:24:12.413 --> 01:24:14.783 Please have this picture in your head. 01:24:15.653 --> 01:24:16.643 And yeah. 01:24:16.643 --> 01:24:20.783 That is how school systems today are working. 01:24:21.773 --> 01:24:28.133 They have no idea to trust the kiddos. 01:24:29.633 --> 01:24:34.643 The kiddos are designed for learning normally. 01:24:35.213 --> 01:24:41.973 But the teachers mostly have no trust to do, to give them the free well, right. 01:24:41.973 --> 01:24:42.148 Because 01:24:42.353 --> 01:24:45.628 Rupert Isaacson: freedom, free freedom of learning or, or Yeah. 01:24:45.653 --> 01:24:45.893 Yeah. 01:24:45.953 --> 01:24:47.243 Self-directed learning. 01:24:47.273 --> 01:24:48.623 Henrich Berkhoff: And the teachers have to look 01:24:48.623 --> 01:24:51.773 Rupert Isaacson: means you can't control, and then if you can't control, you can't 01:24:51.773 --> 01:24:55.673 put them in the factory and you can't put them in the army to go and die. 01:24:56.033 --> 01:24:56.453 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:24:56.483 --> 01:24:58.133 Rupert Isaacson: Because maybe they will have another idea. 01:24:58.403 --> 01:25:02.243 Henrich Berkhoff: All these thinkings are coming here. 01:25:02.378 --> 01:25:02.668 Yeah. 01:25:02.728 --> 01:25:03.773 And yeah. 01:25:03.893 --> 01:25:09.193 And this is we have to create another learning environment mm-hmm. 01:25:09.199 --> 01:25:13.153 Because we have so many things to solve in this future. 01:25:13.153 --> 01:25:13.363 Right. 01:25:13.723 --> 01:25:15.043 Rupert Isaacson: And economics has changed. 01:25:15.043 --> 01:25:16.273 We're not doing factories anymore. 01:25:16.273 --> 01:25:16.483 Yeah. 01:25:16.508 --> 01:25:16.748 Yeah. 01:25:17.173 --> 01:25:23.308 Henrich Berkhoff: And that is where we now, in this time, we have changed more 01:25:23.308 --> 01:25:24.903 and more in this direction, but, mm-hmm. 01:25:26.098 --> 01:25:30.748 Remember for the teacher they, that that is not the, the discuss 01:25:31.438 --> 01:25:33.238 the decision of every teacher. 01:25:33.268 --> 01:25:33.598 Yeah. 01:25:33.658 --> 01:25:36.718 The, the system gives the teacher how to work. 01:25:37.198 --> 01:25:37.318 Mm-hmm. 01:25:37.318 --> 01:25:45.818 But they, this time is for the, the, the, the students sitting in the 01:25:45.818 --> 01:25:49.928 school and they have to find their own way and the teacher have to 01:25:49.928 --> 01:25:53.408 become more and more to go with them. 01:25:53.858 --> 01:25:58.778 Not forward, but they have to give the tools for this 01:25:59.858 --> 01:26:02.558 students to find their best way. 01:26:02.798 --> 01:26:03.188 Yeah. 01:26:03.428 --> 01:26:11.418 That is what I am want, I want to create things like this. 01:26:11.418 --> 01:26:17.778 And if you go in the nature, if you have the move movement, you, you feel good. 01:26:18.813 --> 01:26:19.923 Can create good. 01:26:19.923 --> 01:26:21.603 So solution for the future. 01:26:22.893 --> 01:26:23.403 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 01:26:23.643 --> 01:26:27.033 And you are, you are, you are bringing nature into the classroom. 01:26:27.453 --> 01:26:30.633 Not just saying, because it's so easy for a school to say, sorry, 01:26:30.633 --> 01:26:33.573 we can't take the kids into the forest because there's no time. 01:26:33.693 --> 01:26:35.343 That's the first thing they'll always say. 01:26:35.493 --> 01:26:35.793 Yeah. 01:26:35.973 --> 01:26:38.223 And of course you are saying, well, that's not a problem. 01:26:38.493 --> 01:26:41.703 We can recreate this nature right here in the classroom. 01:26:41.853 --> 01:26:42.003 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:26:42.003 --> 01:26:44.163 We have nature also in the cities. 01:26:44.553 --> 01:26:44.673 Yeah. 01:26:44.673 --> 01:26:47.013 Go, go to the green parks. 01:26:47.013 --> 01:26:49.533 Okay, go to the cemeteries. 01:26:50.103 --> 01:26:50.493 Absolutely. 01:26:50.553 --> 01:26:51.483 They're green. 01:26:51.483 --> 01:26:55.263 Rupert Isaacson: And canals ask the people there, the land along the railways. 01:26:55.623 --> 01:26:56.013 Absolutely. 01:26:56.073 --> 01:26:56.343 Yeah. 01:26:56.613 --> 01:26:57.723 Henrich Berkhoff: You, you can find. 01:26:57.723 --> 01:27:00.273 But you have to trust in the kiddos. 01:27:00.693 --> 01:27:04.743 They want to be a problem solver. 01:27:05.163 --> 01:27:05.193 Mm. 01:27:05.313 --> 01:27:09.813 But for this, you have to explore everything. 01:27:11.088 --> 01:27:14.688 If you have a mistake, yes, it is good to know. 01:27:14.868 --> 01:27:16.158 This is not the best way. 01:27:16.158 --> 01:27:17.718 Please choose this way. 01:27:18.138 --> 01:27:20.568 And this is what we have to learn. 01:27:21.288 --> 01:27:25.878 If you make a mistake, especially in Germany, you are out, you 01:27:25.878 --> 01:27:28.308 have a mark in a red color. 01:27:28.368 --> 01:27:32.538 It my, my my school papers. 01:27:33.048 --> 01:27:38.298 There is more in red on the side as I wrote in my blue color. 01:27:39.108 --> 01:27:47.328 That is, and that mean I never go at home and read this red marks on the right side. 01:27:47.328 --> 01:27:48.138 Never. 01:27:48.138 --> 01:27:48.918 I closed it 01:27:48.918 --> 01:27:49.393 Rupert Isaacson: straight on the fire. 01:27:50.813 --> 01:27:53.778 Henrich Berkhoff: And that is, Hey, that is stupid. 01:27:54.498 --> 01:27:55.638 Rupert Isaacson: You know what's so interesting? 01:27:55.638 --> 01:27:58.888 I just did my German exam Ah, yeah. 01:27:58.978 --> 01:28:06.328 Germany for my B one German level, and it was a six hour exam. 01:28:07.258 --> 01:28:10.228 And I haven't done anything like this since I was, 01:28:13.558 --> 01:28:15.898 I don't know, for 500 years or something like that. 01:28:16.348 --> 01:28:19.768 And I'm sitting in this room. 01:28:22.228 --> 01:28:27.418 That's completely not the way I would teach, not the way I would learn 01:28:27.418 --> 01:28:29.128 and say, okay, I must do this now. 01:28:29.638 --> 01:28:35.158 And just to make it that little bit more difficult, you couldn't 01:28:35.218 --> 01:28:42.958 answer your proofing your exam, your exam questions on the exam paper, 01:28:43.978 --> 01:28:45.118 which in England you can do ah, 01:28:45.658 --> 01:28:46.048 mm-hmm. 01:28:46.168 --> 01:28:51.268 You had to have a separate, what they called un book and an answer 01:28:51.328 --> 01:28:58.048 key sheet where you had to make sure that your answers, you filled 01:28:58.048 --> 01:28:59.848 it in on this separate sheet. 01:29:00.178 --> 01:29:00.928 Oh, and. 01:29:01.528 --> 01:29:06.508 You had to answer with a little X inside a circle. 01:29:06.838 --> 01:29:07.018 Mm-hmm. 01:29:07.288 --> 01:29:08.653 Not, not bigger than the circle. 01:29:08.833 --> 01:29:09.253 Mm-hmm. 01:29:09.333 --> 01:29:10.253 Not next to the circle. 01:29:10.553 --> 01:29:10.973 Mm-hmm. 01:29:11.098 --> 01:29:11.278 Not a 01:29:11.278 --> 01:29:13.678 tick this special way. 01:29:13.978 --> 01:29:21.478 Or if it was like a little lozenge shape, you had to fill it in like that with your 01:29:21.538 --> 01:29:24.298 pencil, but not to put a circle around it. 01:29:24.478 --> 01:29:25.228 Nothing like that. 01:29:25.528 --> 01:29:25.948 Oh. 01:29:26.158 --> 01:29:32.008 And if you're like me, I have a little bit of numerical dyslexia, so sometimes 01:29:32.008 --> 01:29:35.428 I will put, let numbers, oh shit. 01:29:35.428 --> 01:29:36.208 The wrong way round. 01:29:36.208 --> 01:29:39.658 So 17 becomes S one or something like this. 01:29:39.748 --> 01:29:39.868 Yeah. 01:29:39.868 --> 01:29:39.928 So 01:29:40.318 --> 01:29:44.458 I am immediately paranoid as I go into this exam. 01:29:45.358 --> 01:29:49.318 Not so much will I get the questions right. 01:29:49.528 --> 01:29:49.918 Okay. 01:29:49.918 --> 01:29:50.878 That is a worry too. 01:29:51.088 --> 01:29:58.348 But will I answer them in this industrialized way that causes 01:29:58.348 --> 01:30:00.148 an extra level of stress? 01:30:01.033 --> 01:30:01.453 Mm. 01:30:01.483 --> 01:30:03.133 That prevents learning. 01:30:03.253 --> 01:30:09.193 And it's so interesting knowing the neuroscience that we know about cortisol, 01:30:09.373 --> 01:30:12.463 the stress hormone blocking learning. 01:30:14.203 --> 01:30:17.353 I looked at this and said, this is designed for cortisol. 01:30:17.983 --> 01:30:18.133 Mm. 01:30:18.163 --> 01:30:21.283 So this is designed to make you fail. 01:30:24.313 --> 01:30:28.603 That is not teaching, that is elitism. 01:30:29.233 --> 01:30:30.043 That is different. 01:30:31.153 --> 01:30:33.673 And so I came up, but congratulations. 01:30:34.033 --> 01:30:35.983 A special, a special way of coping with this. 01:30:35.983 --> 01:30:41.443 But yeah, it, I had stress from this, and this is me having gone through 01:30:41.443 --> 01:30:46.993 that system and rejected it, and then knowing what I know now, but yeah, 01:30:46.993 --> 01:30:48.433 for young kids, it's not the way. 01:30:48.438 --> 01:30:48.638 Yeah. 01:30:49.873 --> 01:30:50.743 Henrich Berkhoff: But congratulations. 01:30:50.743 --> 01:30:51.343 You did it. 01:30:51.433 --> 01:30:51.583 Yeah. 01:30:52.088 --> 01:30:52.873 Rupert Isaacson: I, I passed. 01:30:52.873 --> 01:30:53.113 Yeah. 01:30:53.743 --> 01:30:54.433 Thank God. 01:30:54.493 --> 01:30:55.183 Thank God. 01:30:55.943 --> 01:30:59.273 Henrich Berkhoff: Otherwise you can sit in some of our schools 01:30:59.273 --> 01:31:00.413 here and you can learn it. 01:31:01.283 --> 01:31:01.553 Yeah. 01:31:01.553 --> 01:31:05.043 And this schools ask to visit the farm. 01:31:05.703 --> 01:31:05.883 Yeah. 01:31:05.943 --> 01:31:10.343 And that is one of our business today. 01:31:10.523 --> 01:31:16.243 We have schools, they come here and also we have the healthy 01:31:16.793 --> 01:31:19.243 and horse thing together. 01:31:19.543 --> 01:31:22.233 They come there's a next pillow. 01:31:22.238 --> 01:31:23.373 No, what is it, Zoe? 01:31:23.403 --> 01:31:23.703 Pillar. 01:31:23.788 --> 01:31:24.208 Pillar 01:31:24.333 --> 01:31:25.023 Rupert Isaacson: the next, yeah. 01:31:25.623 --> 01:31:29.528 Henrich Berkhoff: A part of our business here is children and kiddos 01:31:29.528 --> 01:31:32.528 from the hosp psychology hospital. 01:31:32.528 --> 01:31:32.588 Yeah. 01:31:32.588 --> 01:31:32.828 From the 01:31:32.828 --> 01:31:34.028 Rupert Isaacson: psychiatric hospitals. 01:31:34.538 --> 01:31:38.518 And also you've, you've been taking kids from the local refugee. 01:31:39.118 --> 01:31:40.258 Population as well. 01:31:40.468 --> 01:31:40.738 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:31:41.398 --> 01:31:46.568 And then they come here more and more the, the doctors from the ology hospital 01:31:46.568 --> 01:31:53.208 say, Hey, it is so easier with our therapeutic, therapeutic thinking. 01:31:54.228 --> 01:32:01.338 And after the kiddos stay on your farm, and the next two days 01:32:01.848 --> 01:32:05.208 it is easier to do our work. 01:32:06.438 --> 01:32:12.103 And sometimes they're wondering, Hey, this boy crash every door 01:32:12.268 --> 01:32:15.438 here in our hospital room. 01:32:16.128 --> 01:32:20.748 And he's so in freedom in in the time at your farm. 01:32:20.898 --> 01:32:21.168 Yeah. 01:32:21.468 --> 01:32:29.748 Where come this from and say, Hey, I, I, I, I'm I giving the opportunity. 01:32:30.528 --> 01:32:34.518 To get in contact with nature and visit animals. 01:32:34.518 --> 01:32:43.428 And believe me, the, the kiddos, they have an idea what is right and what is wrong. 01:32:43.848 --> 01:32:46.288 They have an idea what is nice. 01:32:47.068 --> 01:32:54.268 And if they are in the other world and they, they destroy 01:32:54.448 --> 01:33:02.078 themselves or other things that is crying, that is shouting, help me. 01:33:02.648 --> 01:33:02.978 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:33:03.278 --> 01:33:06.318 Henrich Berkhoff: That is they cannot describe it in the other way. 01:33:07.878 --> 01:33:08.178 Absolutely. 01:33:08.178 --> 01:33:16.408 They crash the door up or box to the staff there and whatever happened, 01:33:17.248 --> 01:33:24.198 but he, nothing really giddy said to me, please do not say nothing. 01:33:25.008 --> 01:33:26.598 Sometimes it happens. 01:33:26.748 --> 01:33:27.828 Yeah, maybe. 01:33:28.368 --> 01:33:37.098 But 99, 9% they have an idea of what is good and what is not so good 01:33:37.698 --> 01:33:41.658 and give them the responsibilities. 01:33:42.348 --> 01:33:43.728 They do their right way. 01:33:43.728 --> 01:33:51.678 But yeah, of course you have to look after, you have to design how to go in 01:33:51.678 --> 01:33:57.468 the nature and how to handle the, the, the animals, they have to know this. 01:33:57.468 --> 01:33:57.918 Mm-hmm. 01:33:57.963 --> 01:34:01.518 They have children, they have no idea that is a cow or this is a horse. 01:34:02.028 --> 01:34:03.378 They have no idea. 01:34:04.128 --> 01:34:09.588 And also nice story, there was the mother, we have a chicken with little chicken. 01:34:09.588 --> 01:34:11.928 They come two days old. 01:34:12.288 --> 01:34:13.968 Little, little tiny chicken. 01:34:14.568 --> 01:34:19.818 And the mother comes with this, two kiddos from this clinic and ask, Hey, 01:34:20.118 --> 01:34:22.638 how do you feed the little chicken with. 01:34:24.738 --> 01:34:25.248 Sorry. 01:34:27.408 --> 01:34:31.998 This is how far away from nature we are. 01:34:32.508 --> 01:34:32.808 Yeah. 01:34:33.048 --> 01:34:33.378 Yeah. 01:34:34.248 --> 01:34:40.488 And if the, the problems reducing is bring the people back in nature. 01:34:42.828 --> 01:34:47.158 And if you use a horse is a powerful thing. 01:34:47.848 --> 01:34:53.788 If you have dogs, if you have other animals, if you have, and ask the local 01:34:54.188 --> 01:34:56.798 farmers, they are a little bit mind open. 01:34:57.698 --> 01:35:02.288 Hey, can I visit your place and give them the money for this to do? 01:35:02.618 --> 01:35:07.568 And they are thinking, Hey, we, we cannot, we can do more than 01:35:07.568 --> 01:35:11.253 produce the the, the, the meat. 01:35:11.283 --> 01:35:11.673 And 01:35:11.773 --> 01:35:12.523 Rupert Isaacson: this is so true. 01:35:12.523 --> 01:35:16.453 It's interesting because we're now looking at the end of. 01:35:16.963 --> 01:35:20.593 The era of big subsidies probably for farmers. 01:35:20.593 --> 01:35:27.613 And I know many farmers are asking themselves, okay, how do we, how do 01:35:27.613 --> 01:35:30.643 we stay alive in the next generation? 01:35:31.243 --> 01:35:38.383 And if people like you at the political level are able to lobby 01:35:38.563 --> 01:35:45.043 government to say, okay, maybe we don't need to pay the subsidy here. 01:35:45.883 --> 01:35:48.403 Maybe the subsidy now goes to mental health. 01:35:49.213 --> 01:35:55.003 Because if we pay the farmers, the foresters, the custodians of the land, 01:35:55.003 --> 01:36:01.213 if we can train them and pay them to help look after the mental health of 01:36:01.213 --> 01:36:07.483 the people in the cities, our costs will go down as David Doyle proved. 01:36:08.623 --> 01:36:14.173 And it's people like you and people like David who do it. 01:36:14.698 --> 01:36:18.598 On their place, they do it on their farm, you do it on a farm and you go 01:36:18.598 --> 01:36:23.008 out to the political level and advocate. 01:36:24.568 --> 01:36:34.888 And I would suggest that your early years as a parent with Julian prepared 01:36:34.888 --> 01:36:41.098 you for this because just as the advocacy work that I do, it was all 01:36:41.098 --> 01:36:47.038 the early years with Rowan that prepare me now for some of the political 01:36:47.038 --> 01:36:48.898 outreach and so on that I have to do. 01:36:49.438 --> 01:36:53.938 I imagine at the end of your life when you are looking back, you'll look to 01:36:53.938 --> 01:36:57.598 those early years with Julian and say, ah, yes, that was the training ground. 01:36:58.408 --> 01:37:00.508 That was where I learned my skills. 01:37:00.508 --> 01:37:06.418 Yeah, how to do it at home, how to do it in my community, 01:37:07.288 --> 01:37:09.538 and then how to take it wider. 01:37:10.213 --> 01:37:10.483 Yeah. 01:37:10.583 --> 01:37:13.703 I think we ly can thank our special needs children for this. 01:37:14.123 --> 01:37:14.753 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:37:14.903 --> 01:37:22.853 I'm also so grateful to have the opportunity to go this way. 01:37:23.183 --> 01:37:23.603 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:37:25.103 --> 01:37:26.813 Henrich Berkhoff: It's not the easiest way, but, 01:37:26.993 --> 01:37:28.373 Rupert Isaacson: but it's the most meaningful way. 01:37:28.523 --> 01:37:28.853 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:37:28.853 --> 01:37:30.713 It's a meaningful, powerful way. 01:37:31.343 --> 01:37:35.633 And that is the reason we, we, we know each other, we, we are talking about 01:37:35.633 --> 01:37:45.863 this and not to search the mental thing in India, you, you, you stay India. 01:37:46.073 --> 01:37:46.283 Yeah. 01:37:46.493 --> 01:37:48.083 You can, maybe you can find it. 01:37:49.568 --> 01:37:51.098 But it's also not easy. 01:37:51.788 --> 01:37:51.938 Yes. 01:37:53.018 --> 01:37:55.238 Rupert Isaacson: Well, if we're gonna take something like this to India, we 01:37:55.238 --> 01:37:56.978 better prove it here where we live first. 01:37:57.698 --> 01:37:58.058 Yeah. 01:37:58.088 --> 01:37:58.118 Okay. 01:37:59.048 --> 01:37:59.348 Henrich Berkhoff: Okay. 01:37:59.768 --> 01:38:05.668 But if we, if we stand together and have a look to the disabled 01:38:05.728 --> 01:38:09.388 people to this not normal humans. 01:38:10.013 --> 01:38:10.588 Yeah, yeah. 01:38:11.098 --> 01:38:16.378 It, there is more than someone expected. 01:38:16.858 --> 01:38:17.188 Yeah. 01:38:17.458 --> 01:38:20.728 And there is, they are the 01:38:20.728 --> 01:38:21.268 Rupert Isaacson: shamans. 01:38:21.268 --> 01:38:22.078 They are the healers. 01:38:22.078 --> 01:38:23.878 They are the people who make the magic. 01:38:24.028 --> 01:38:26.698 Henrich Berkhoff: They give us the answers to our questions. 01:38:26.818 --> 01:38:27.303 Rupert Isaacson: They do. 01:38:27.688 --> 01:38:28.018 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:38:29.578 --> 01:38:30.688 Rupert Isaacson: Henrich, thank you. 01:38:31.438 --> 01:38:31.588 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:38:31.768 --> 01:38:32.698 Thank you Ru. 01:38:33.118 --> 01:38:41.108 So it was a nice talk here about everything and nothing. 01:38:41.468 --> 01:38:45.008 And I think, hopefully I answer all the question. 01:38:45.008 --> 01:38:47.408 You, you, you did very, very well. 01:38:47.898 --> 01:38:50.538 Rupert Isaacson: I look forward to following where this 01:38:50.568 --> 01:38:52.218 next bit of work in Berlin. 01:38:52.758 --> 01:38:53.358 Henrich Berkhoff: Ah, yeah. 01:38:54.168 --> 01:38:56.448 Rupert Isaacson: And in the Netherlands as well. 01:38:56.448 --> 01:38:57.078 I'm, I'm, oh yeah. 01:38:57.078 --> 01:38:58.788 I'm really interested to see how this goes. 01:38:59.118 --> 01:39:04.458 So maybe in a few months we have you back and you can give us a report. 01:39:05.388 --> 01:39:06.948 Henrich Berkhoff: Yes, I, I will do. 01:39:07.158 --> 01:39:07.488 Thank you. 01:39:07.493 --> 01:39:08.688 It, it is my pleasure. 01:39:08.898 --> 01:39:10.548 Rupert Isaacson: Perhaps with Julian, maybe he would like 01:39:10.548 --> 01:39:11.778 to come on the podcast too. 01:39:13.098 --> 01:39:14.298 Henrich Berkhoff: That is a cool idea. 01:39:14.298 --> 01:39:17.358 Y that is, that makes sense. 01:39:17.568 --> 01:39:17.958 Rupert Isaacson: Maybe. 01:39:17.958 --> 01:39:19.188 And his brothers actually. 01:39:19.188 --> 01:39:19.608 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:39:20.058 --> 01:39:22.488 Give, ask them. 01:39:22.908 --> 01:39:26.898 Is it true what Gia and Henry are talking about? 01:39:27.198 --> 01:39:27.708 Rupert Isaacson: That's right. 01:39:28.398 --> 01:39:34.798 Henrich Berkhoff: Or is it, is it they say, oh, that my, my parents, yeah. 01:39:34.798 --> 01:39:35.498 Please do this. 01:39:35.583 --> 01:39:35.873 Okay. 01:39:35.873 --> 01:39:36.483 Yeah, that's good idea. 01:39:36.778 --> 01:39:36.928 Let's, 01:39:36.928 --> 01:39:38.488 Rupert Isaacson: let's, let's reconvene with that. 01:39:39.238 --> 01:39:39.628 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:39:39.688 --> 01:39:40.258 Rupert Isaacson: All right. 01:39:40.738 --> 01:39:43.288 Well, my friend, thank you again so much. 01:39:43.798 --> 01:39:44.278 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah. 01:39:44.518 --> 01:39:47.578 Rupert Isaacson: And I just look forward to the next, not just the next 01:39:47.578 --> 01:39:49.288 conversation, but hearing the results. 01:39:49.408 --> 01:39:50.008 I want to know. 01:39:50.428 --> 01:39:51.508 Henrich Berkhoff: Okay. 01:39:51.508 --> 01:39:54.028 That is important too. 01:39:54.028 --> 01:39:54.478 Yes. 01:39:54.718 --> 01:40:02.068 No pressure, but if you feel, eh, at your don't, if you feel it 01:40:02.068 --> 01:40:04.258 is good, please follow this one. 01:40:04.798 --> 01:40:05.878 Don't follow this. 01:40:05.878 --> 01:40:11.728 What your brain, pre, pre put the, the 01:40:14.188 --> 01:40:16.258 pre for cortex. 01:40:16.618 --> 01:40:17.818 Prefrontal cortex. 01:40:18.028 --> 01:40:19.708 Please don't follow your feelings 01:40:19.708 --> 01:40:20.278 Rupert Isaacson: for that big principal cortex. 01:40:20.278 --> 01:40:20.488 No. 01:40:20.668 --> 01:40:21.598 So it gets things wrong. 01:40:21.808 --> 01:40:25.048 Henrich Berkhoff: Yeah, that is, that is right. 01:40:25.378 --> 01:40:26.908 Rupert Isaacson: The stomach and the heart too. 01:40:27.538 --> 01:40:27.838 Henrich Berkhoff: Cool. 01:40:28.288 --> 01:40:30.988 Rupert Isaacson: Alright, well, until next time my friend. 01:40:31.288 --> 01:40:32.218 Bye-bye. 01:40:32.223 --> 01:40:32.703 Bye-bye. 01:40:32.886 --> 01:40:36.266 I hope you enjoyed today's conversation as much as I did. 01:40:37.096 --> 01:40:40.846 If you did, please help us to make more. 01:40:40.846 --> 01:40:44.726 Please like, subscribe, 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