didn't build it. We don't know who did no they were gone long before
we ever got here Welcome to primary technology the show about the tech news that
matters We're gonna talk about Apple earnings this week is Apple vision
Pro did the RAM? Pocalypse is affecting even more Macs like the Mac studio
of course the Mac mini Everyone might get some money if they have
an Apple intelligence device because of the lawsuit
We actually have some data center news causing a kerfuffle.
Claude made a deal with SpaceX,
Mir Moradi is testifying at the OpenAI Musk trial,
and a ton more. This episode is brought to you by NordLayer and CleanMyMac,
and of course, all of you, the members who support us directly,
and one of your hosts, Robles,
joining us once again, developer Jason Aten.
How's it going, Jason?
grumpy Stephen because people keep calling me grumpy and it's making
Grumpy, why grumpy?
me very grumpy I don't know but the one way to make me feel grumpy is
It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
to call me grumpy I guess no I'm fine it's good
Yeah, yeah, no, no, I'm excited because,
well, we won't say the status right now.
I mean, I did get my app reviewed once and rejected once.
That's right.
Everyone has got to get their app rejected once.
I was
just waiting for it. would have actually been disappointed if it just sailed right
through. mean, nothing about it has sailed through.
It's like every
developer gets their wings when their app store gets rejected,
right? I mean, at least once.
I feel like that's probably true.
So I don't know. I've heard a lot of people talk about like the weird rejections
and it was very like it was good.
I mean the one rejection was useful.
It's like I wouldn't actually want my app to have shipped with that particular
Yeah, yeah, With that bug, yeah.
problem. So I'm glad so we're getting closer.
I was really hoping I could be like it's it's available people.
Getting close. It's out there,
it's out there.
Maybe you'll get the email while we record,
you never know.
And if I do, do I push it out immediately?
Okay.
Yes, you do. And yes, it be
live on the show. Do you have any idea where that quote was from?
It's a little bit obscure, but it's from my favorite movies.
Okay,
so you told me it from a movie.
In my brain, I'm like, well, that was from silo.
Yes.
That's 100 % felt like silo.
It does, but no. This
So
is from before 2000. This is from a sci-fi movie before the year 2000.
what was that Amy Adams movie?
No, it's not that one either. This is Jody Foster.
We don't know who did. They were long.
They were gone long before we ever got here.
It's contact.
Wait, what was the Amy Adams movie called that I'm thinking of where there's.
I have no idea. The Hulk?
No. Sorry. That's that's...
What was what sci fi?
Okay, anyway, while you do that,
let me do some 5 star review shoutouts.
We have Game Man 114 from the USA.
Arrival. Sorry. Arrival.
What is it? Oh, Arrival? Yeah,
I know I'm just saying contact
but that was not before 2000. That was like 2014.
and arrival in my brain are the same movie.
So that's why I said that.
Oh my god, we can't even go there.
can't even go there.
William would have some words.
William Gallagher, he watches Arrival every year on Christmas,
I think. He loves that movie. He loves it.
I do. think it's a great movie.
It's a great movie. It's a great movie.
But all right. So I
It's a great movie.
got it wrong. Mark me down for being wrong.
It was pretty obscure. It's a hard quote.
Matthew McConaughey's in that movie too.
Contact. It's a good one. All right.
Five star review. Shout outs. Thank you for five stars.
Game Man 114 from the USA. The Chris Chia from the USA stumbled upon us.
We've been featured a lot in Apple Podcasts because we added video.
And so just maybe discovered us that way.
Ashton McCants from the USA subscribed,
became a member. Very kind. Bob the Baldi,
fellow Baldi maybe, from the UK.
Not seen a double act of this caliber since Burt and Ernie.
That's a high bar.
I feel like that's high praise.
Bert and Ernie? Yeah, I think so.
I think so. think it is, but then the
I think so.
emoji makes me wonder, but that's okay.
No, no, no. I think he was just laughing at his own joke.
But anyway, oh, hey, it's you from the USA.
All five star views. Thank you for those.
And I want to give a shout out.
We give shout outs to like developers make apps.
We talked about chess piece last week.
The listener listens to the developer listens to this show.
And then John Gruber also featured him on daring fireball dot net for chess piece.
P E A C E. But also, Ivan sent me an email listens to the show and he made
an app called Brew Card. It's actually a web app.
Brew card dot app.
great domain grab there. This is something totally free.
If you make coffee and stuff, you can design a card that is like your recipe
for a specific kind of coffee and you can download a PNG of that card if
you want to share it maybe on social media or you can even share a link to it.
And again, all this is free. You can download the stuff for free,
share it online for free. And if you make coffee,
maybe want to share your recipes or you have a coffee shop and you want
to be able to like post Instagram stories of your different drinks.
It's just a free website, Brewcard.app.
We'll link it in the show notes.
Pretty cool. I like it. You actually,
you took apart your whole coffee maker this past week,
right? Because you broke it?
We, yeah, we apparently, you know,
I've, this actually happened one other time,
but apparently when you buy a bag of,
of beans, there are other objects that could be in there that are the shape
of a bean, but much more dense,
like, you know, rocks. And then I've,
you
we've, with my, my espresso machine passed a stone.
Unfortunately, part of its guts did not survive.
So I took the whole thing apart and then I was like,
well, this thing is like a thousand dollars and we use it four times a day.
Yeah.
I think I'm going to just get the replacement parts and fix it.
So.
That's pretty good. That's pretty good.
And I want us to do one other thing before we get to Apple earnings
and Apple vision pro. We did get a shout out from Mr.
Neelai Patel from the Verge cast.
I posted a clip of our Brendan Carr segment in last week's episode and
he and David Pierce, they were nice enough to re share it.
And so the B C I A D C U the Brendan Carr is a dummy cinematic universe
is expanding.
I think it's podcast universe,
but close enough. The the Brendan Carr is a dummy P.U.
You know, podcast users, that's right.
That's how this should work.
There you go. Perfect. That's perfect.
That's it. All right. So Apple had their earnings right after last week's episode
published and ~ can I just I'm sorry one piece of housekeeping because we've
had a lot of people supporting the show,
which we really appreciate and there is some just a bit of clarity.
Unfortunately, in Apple podcasts,
if you subscribe to the show, there is no video because Apple podcast does
not have video for subscribers.
So
Don't subscribe for like video without ads.
I'm sorry. That's not a thing that exists because Apple doesn't make that possible.
And also remember if you're watching and you really miss chapters,
there's timestamps in the description in Apple podcasts that you can tap
and jump to a chapter. If you listen with any other app like podcast,
overcast, there are chapters like normal even for the free version.
So I just want to point that out there because we have people supporting
the show and they're like, hey,
I signed up. Where can I get the video?
I'm sorry. That doesn't exist yet.
And we have people who are
super mad that we're apparently gatekeeping chapters,
which is just not a thing. No one in the universe loves chapters more than Stephen.
we're not. Not a thing.
If he could give them to you, he would just mail them to you with a T-shirt
love them.
I would. ~ you give you ideas now.
and a pin like it's like without question.
I'm giving him ideas that are going to be really expensive.
We need a shirt with chapters.
that's pretty good.
I'll write it down. Don't I got it.
Hold on. I gotta pause the show.
Hold on. Yeah, write it down. Thank you.
A shirt
with chapters. Can I be honest,
Jason? I've never gotten a tattoo in my life.
Okay. On your butt you have no tattoos.
But. No, no, no, no, no,
Okay.
no,
but, but I keep seeing the polar bear,
the medieval knight riding the polar bear and like our unofficial logo.
And I'm like, if I ever were to get a tattoo,
I feel like this would probably be it.
don't know. Can I ask you personal question?
Okay. I don't have any tattoos if that's the question.
Okay. I was just curious. I was just curious.
And if I
Just curious. I don't know.
ever get a tattoo, it'll probably be,
no, I'm not gonna get a tattoo probably.
We can get
matching medieval knights riding a polar bear Jason's not gonna get it.
That's not gonna happen. I won't even wear my Vision Pro on an airplane.
He's not gonna do it. Anyway, let's talk about Apple And you're gonna
I'm not getting a tattoo of that.
be riding like 18 airplanes in the next two months Jason Please you
I might take it. We'll see.
say that every time actually take it take the vision Pro.
There's
I travel
really light to be fair. That's the part of the reason why.
The Vision Pro is very light, Jason.
It barely weighs anything. That's a lie.
Yes, but it takes up like this much space.
It takes up a lot of space, too.
Anyway.
lot of space. All right, we're going to talk about the Vision Pro in a second.
But first, Apple earnings came out after last week.
It was their second record second quarter earnings for Apple,
$111.2 billion in revenue.
So again, best second quarter ever.
iPhone, still 51 % of Apple's revenue.
You can see I'm going to link.
Six colors article with Jason Snell.
They all have all the pretty graphs talking about where the revenue and profit is.
You can see gross margin going up.
You also see services revenue on that upward trajectory.
Not a hockey stick, but it is going up every quarter.
And of course the products and services.
And there's one product really setting apart of these quarters from past years,
which is the iPhone 17 Pro. That's like a big one.
Yeah, I mean, it's like the most popular iPhone ever.
And it's, you know, it's I guess it's the orange.
really is.
mean, I didn't love it. I didn't love the orange.
Although I do have a water bottle that's basically the same orange and that's fine.
But ~ yeah, it was a big deal.
interesting.
John Ternes made an appearance his first time on a earnings call.
Yes?
And he's basically like, hang on,
BRB, just chill, you know, get this up or whatever.
think that I don't think this will be the last ~ earnings call because
I'm not official yet.
I think the next call will be.
Tim Cook's last one. And so but yeah,
Still Tim Cook.
everything is going up. That's a good thing.
There was a couple interesting things.
One, you know, they they basically were I think the reason Ternus was there
is to give people who care about the stock like a little bit of assurance like,
here's the guy. Meet the new guy.
He'll be back. He just wants you to get a feel for him.
See everything is going to be basically the same.
It's like Tim and Tim extended version.
Tim plus Max, whatever, you know.
Tim Plus
Max.
So we just want you
to know what's coming down the pike and things aren't going to change
a ton except there are a couple things one is like It sounds like they're going
to start holding on to cash again There was a period of time when Apple
Hmm.
had like more cash than all of the world's governments or something like that
Yes, I'm crazy.
It was ridiculous now that's now that's Berkshire Hathaway,
which literally has 300 billion dollars of cash sitting in a pile somewhere
and Warren Buffett's backyard I guess don't go to Omaha looking for it's
Peace.
not there anyway, but
He they would basically they started giving all the cash back
to the shareholders doing buybacks and dividends and stuff.
Right.
And they've said we're going to continue to do the dividends and buybacks.
But we are going to start holding on to cash a little bit more in excess
of the amount of our debt, because,
well, really, they're like probably pretty bummed they couldn't
buy Anthropic when they wanted to,
like because they just didn't have that much cash sitting around.
Mmm.
Actually, Apple didn't need the cash to buy in topic.
Let's be honest. There's a lot of ways they can do this.
But I think that John Turner's probably wants
the flexibility for that. And then the other thing that was interesting
is they talked about the tariffs.
And basically, Apple said, if we get money back for the tariffs,
Yes.
we will spend it, we will add it to our investment in the US,
which is actually a brilliant way of saying this,
because they're able to address Wall Street,
who cares very much about Apple getting money back right in Apple didn't pass
the cost of tariffs on to consumers,
right? They didn't raise price specifically because of tariffs,
Right.
it just got harder to get stuff.
And so they don't have to give refunds to people if that happens.
But they're like, if we get the money back,
we're just going to add it on to our RD,
which is which is fine, right?
Like they're going to just can make it just makes them look very good.
So if anybody's wondering what Apple is going to do if they get a bunch
of money back for tariffs, you're not they're not sending us checks.
We'll talk about the check they might send you later.
You might get a check. Yeah, that's right.
But it's not because of tariffs.
Yeah. That's right.
And so so anyway.
That was good. And I wanted to,
I wanted to share this chart. This is from MG Siegler,
his website, spyglass.org. And it's showing the capital expenditure of Apple,
Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and Meta.
And capital expenditure is things not directly related to like products.
So it might be a data center. They might be investing in R and D like
for Apple that could have been the car project,
things like that.
And as you can see this chart,
if you're listening, I'll put this as the chapter art so you could kind of see it.
Every company, once AI started going big around 2022,
every company ramped up their spending for capital expenditure except Apple.
And you could just see the bar graphs going way up for all the other companies.
And Apple actually spent less on capital expenditure this year than last year.
And it's just Apple's not about that,
which...
You could say, maybe if they had spent a little more,
Apple Intelligence might be a little better.
~ But I don't know. You know, I don't know what amount of money you throw
at a thing makes it better, per se.
But.
I mean, it's that
you got the graph right there.
The amount of money you have to throw at this thing to make it better
is so far beyond what Apple would be willing to do.
And Apple can't go from spending 11 billion to what Amazon said 200 billion.
Like you can't like seriously,
Yeah.
you know what that would have done to the stock if Apple
had automatically done that, even if they're like,
That's
well, well, we promise it's going to pay off 12 years into the future or whatever.
Maybe.
No, there's just no way that they could do that.
And I mean, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know if Apple it's hard to say if Apple's behind.
or if Apple's really, really smart and just letting everybody else,
you know, spend all this money.
And if this is a bubble that bursts,
all that money they're going to have that they didn't spend on those things,
they're going to just start buying them up.
Like it'll be it's like the perfect play.
That's true. It'd be just a sale.
Just wait for the bubble to burst.
Yeah, it'd just be a flash sale.
And there were rumors this past week that,
you know, in iOS 27, the voice assistant,
you'll be able to choose from ChatGPT,
Claude, or Gemini, that all three of those extensions might be available,
just built into iOS 27. We know that they have a deal with Gemini,
that that will be coming. That deal,
it might be that Gemini is like on private cloud compute or whatever,
and part of the models of Gemini are...
It's not exactly Gemini, it's like an apple flavored Gemini and apple's gonna
do some sauce to it or whatever.
But they might also put Claude in there and like honestly,
that'd be pretty sweet. I Xcode already has ChatGPT or Claude and
you can literally just log in with your account.
You can have Claude Agent running in Xcode and it'd be nice to see that in iOS 27.
So we'll see, that was Ruminations.
Don't you think though the
bet the promise though here for like the approach for Apple in
the best case scenario is that you just never have to think about it like.
I don't know that they want an AI assistant with a ton of little fiddly knobs
and you have to decide who you're providing like all that kind of stuff.
And as someone who has been thinking very hard about like how you build this into
an app, like it's it gets very complicated if you're like,
well, you have to log into your account for this thing.
And or if you get a different experience,
if you don't have this account or what if the assistant like they just need Siri
to be good and however they do that is fine.
And you shouldn't ever have to think about
Yeah, but I think they could also do both,
kind of how they do now, where you can ask the voice assistant...
Hold on, I hope
they do nothing kind of like they do now when it comes to this.
Well, no, what I'm
going to say is you can ask the voice assistant and it will figure
out whether it can handle it, spoiler,
it can't, and give it over to ChatGPT or just do the thing.
And so maybe once they put Gemini and whatever servers that powering
the voice assistant, it just can do the things at the first request.
But then also in the little fiddly Apple intelligence settings pane where most
people won't go, but those of us who want it,
you can have like the Claw, ChatGPT and Gemini.
Sign-ins if you want to have that and then maybe in shortcuts There'll
be some actions where you can choose whatever model you want and that could
be the fiddly part and Apple doesn't have to most people don't have
to know about that They could just watch my videos on YouTube and I'll explain
it to them. You know what I mean?
Perfect. Perfect.
All right, so vision pro there was this article that came out again after last
week's show from Mac rumors claiming that Apple has given up on the vision
pro after the m5 refresh flop
given up are some strong words.
And it was not a super long article,
nor was it directly sourced. It was just saying that apparently Apple
has stopped working on the Vision Pro and the Vision Pro team
has been redistributed to other teams within Apple.
And so the MacRumors article was making it seem like,
whoa, they just broke up the team and like it's dead,
like dead on arrival or on whatever.
And so it felt weird. It also felt very final with not having much sourcing.
And we haven't heard something like this from Gurman specifically.
But then John Gruber wrote at Daring Fireball,
like, ~ probably not. Like the Vision Pro team was already split off into like
the Vision Product Group and another technology development group.
so saying the Vision Pro team was just kind of like broken up and put other places.
It's like, well, they were split up into similar groups,
still about Vision and maybe AR,
VR type devices. And as far as
John Gruber knows from his contacts that they are still working on vision devices.
It just might not be the Vision Pro that we know it today.
And so Gruber was saying they are still working on immersive style devices where
it would be full on headsets, maybe it's cheaper headsets,
maybe it's something just very different from the Vision Pro we see today,
and also maybe like AR glasses and things like that.
I don't think the Vision Pro is dead as much as that MacRumors article seemed
to imply. It's just going to be different.
Yeah, this just sort of feels like someone got reassigned and told someone else
Which makes sense.
about they got reassigned and that person told someone and they're like,
my gosh, everyone from the team is leaving and there's no more vision pros.
Like there's a lot of leaps and assumptions you have to make just from
one piece of information. And even in the Mac rumors article,
I feel like they may, and I think Rupert points this out.
It's like they made, it's apparently stopped work on the vision pro and
the team has been redistributed to other teams with an Apple apparently stopped work
like
there's no report that that's actually happened other than Mike Rockwell
Right.
has been moved to a different team,
like whatever, right? And so I don't know,
I just think that it's also think it doesn't really matter because
I think we've already reached the point where the vision pro was not going
to be the next platform of computing.
Like it's fine. Like even if AI had not come around,
I just don't think this was going to be the thing.
~ But I think that I think it's probably entirely true that the people
who were working on headset
might now be working on glasses or something else.
Right.
But I think we knew that was always going to be like the vision pro
was always meant to be filling a gap between your phone and whatever
the long term thing was going to be.
glasses.
Yeah, and I think it's also clear the Vision Pro is not selling like hotcakes,
as they say. You know, it is not a high selling device,
but they're not like totally doing away with any kind of vision device development,
is basically what saying. So anyway,
Sure.
yeah, that felt a little weird.
don't think Vision Pro is dead yet.
Do you still use it pretty often?
Really? That's pretty good.
all the time. Yeah, I was trying to figure
out how to make a Vision Pro app for my app.
I'm probably not going to.
Yeah,
I was gonna say. But, I think I might try to make a Vision Pro app,
we'll see. I think my app would lend itself to Vision Pro.
We'll talk about it. Anyway, the RAMpocalypse is coming for all.
And it has now come from MacStudio.
If you were trying to get a MacStudio with a ton of RAM,
the M3 Ultra now only has the 96GB of RAM configuration.
You used to be able to get it up to like the 512GB.
There was the 256, they're all gone.
And now you can only have, there's only one RAM configuration.
This is the shortage. This is because TSMC is making all the stuff
for Nvidia and we're gonna talk about data centers in a little bit,
which sounds boring, but it's actually gonna be a pretty wild segment.
~ But I mean, this is the RAMpocalypse.
It's coming, and you know, there was also the news,
I think it came after last week's episode,
but like the base Mac mini is no longer available.
So like, if you go to apple.com slash Mac,
there used to be a 599 Mac mini option,
and that option no longer exists.
I was curious if they changed actually this main page on the website.
Yeah, now it says from 799. And that used to say from 599,
because the lowest RAM you can get is,
or the lowest memory storage, I'm sorry,
Storage, right, it's the storage.
that's what it was. It used to come with 256 gigabytes of SSD storage standard.
Now the base is 512.
~ But on the Mac Studio, let's see,
there was one Mac Studio on like B &H with like all the RAM and it was like
14 grand and I don't know why but I was tempted to get it but I did
not get it because that would have been absolutely insane.
go really good with that video streaming device you have.
Exactly. So if you get an M3 Ultra,
there is one memory option. That looks crazy on this site.
This is Apple StorePage. If you go with the M4 Max,
you only get 64 or 96 gigabytes of RAM.
That's it. That's all you get.
man. Can be honest? I mean, I was not some kind of like a futurist when
I bought my Mac Studio, but now I'm kind of glad I got my Mac Studio when I did.
because I got the 128 gigabyte RAM version.
So I have more RAM than you can buy new now.
That's crazy.
Do we think that this is gonna continue?
like when they do, well, two questions.
Do we think that there's M5 versions of these two devices coming soon?
Yes.
That's first question. Second question,
when those devices come, do you think that there will still be a long delay
to get things? So is this A, we just aren't gonna continue making M4 things until
we don't, we only have certain configurations left,
we're only gonna sell those and it's not cost effective.
And reducing them or lapping off the bottom means that
Yeah, because the difference is what $200,
but it does not cost Apple $200 to six,
five, 12 instead of 256. So they're just increasing their margin on what they have
left. They just want to only sell things that are going to make them more money.
And actually they're not going to sell it to you.
They will take your money and then you'll get an M5 when they'll ship.
Like you're never going to get an M4 Pro Mac mini at this point.
So do we think they're coming soon?
And do we think that there'll be long delays once the M5 because
the other M5 devices like the MacBook Pros seem to be shipping fine.
That is true. So one of the things we didn't mention about on the earnings call,
Tim Cook did talk about the memory crunch because he was asked about it.
And I'll put this link to the CNBC article.
But he said that we'll continue to evaluate this because this was Tim Cook saying,
quote, we believe memory costs will drive an increasing impact on our business.
Seems like going forward, it will have an impact.
I think
two things. don't... I think if they launch an M5,
MacStudio, and or Mac Mini, they want to offer it with as many configurations
as they can. And it seems like right now in this moment that that's not feasible.
Like I don't think they would have raised the Mac Mini price unless they had to.
And I understand it's not raising the price,
it was eliminating the bass configuration,
but...
And there's also a demand part of this,
like everyone is wanting a Mac Mini and or Mac Studio to run their
AI agents and stuff. So it is kind of this like dual pressure of there
is the RAMpocalypse and there is people wanting a bunch of Mac Minis
to run Claude Cowork or whatever and Claude Code.
I think they are going to figure it out and then launch.
So while an M5 might be ready now,
I think the RAM thing is going to,
they're going to wait.
Like don't even think at WWDC we're gonna hear about an M5 MacStudio or Mac Mini.
It'd be nice, because I know a lot of people like David Sparks of Mac,
oh here's my ghost, he's wanting to buy a new MacStudio and he's waiting
to see what happens. I think it'll be the fall.
I think October, November they'll announce the M5.
It'll be longer than they would've wanted to,
but hopefully by then there'll be all the RAM options and people can
get either 512 gigabytes of memory in their new MacStudio if they want it.
Because I don't think Apple wants to release an M5 Max and M5 Ultra
Max Studio and then only offer 96 gigs of RAM.
No, but you can get all the configurations in a MacBook Pro right now
and you can get 128 gigs in a MacBook Pro with an M5 Max right now.
And those are available and you can actually walk into an Apple store
and buy several, I just was checking several configurations.
All of the base configurations of the M5,
the M5 Pro and the M5 Max are available to be delivered tomorrow.
So like it is not a shortage across the line.
right.
It is an M4 specific shortage,
which, it's not even a RAM shortage because you can get a MacBook
Pro with more memory than you can get on a Mac Studio.
So I think that this is as much an end of life M4.
They're phasing all the M4s out.
It is too costly right now to get TSMC to be fabbing these chips that have
the large amounts of memory on them because it's hard to get,
so it's more expensive. But I just think it's also,
like Apple's never gonna say, yeah,
we're actually not gonna ever ship these devices anymore because we're about
to release new ones. And I know there have been some rumors that the
new ones might come in.
might not come until the fall,
but I don't think it's tenable for Apple to continue with this happening.
Also, Apple doesn't want to just not take people's money.
That's true.
They want to take your money and the M5 seems to
Yeah.
be available much more readily.
Now there are couple of configurations of the MacBook Pro that are like
two to three weeks delivery time,
Which is not bad, it's not bad.
but you're going to get it in two to three weeks.
Yeah.
You don't it's not like they're going to not ship it to you.
So
Could that also be though, so the MacBook M5 Pro and M5 Max MacBook Pro,
those were available in March,
so about two months ago they were available to purchase.
Apple probably built many of those configurations or had the chips
in hand before that, so couldn't it be they're still able to sell
the chips and MacBook Pros they had as they were leading up to the launch?
whereas they couldn't do that kind of preparatory work for a new Mac Studio,
Mac Mini? Because if you order an M5 Max MacBook Pro right now,
it's not like they're going to start building it in the factory tomorrow.
That computer is probably already configured.
It just has to get over here.
they don't carry much inventory.
I mean, that's the whole Tim Cook thing is the I mean,
Really? Okay.
they have inventory of like circuit boards and stuff.
And I think they get a set. I don't understand all the intricacies of it.
But Apple's whole thing is like zero inventory.
They don't carry inventory. The true test is you can
get basically every configuration you can possibly imagine from B and H
of a MacBook Pro right now. And they're all in stock there,
which tells you they have easy access to all of these things.
Hmm.
And so all I'm trying to say is
Okay.
I don't think there's something unique about the Mac Mini and the
Mac Studio except that they're still on the M4 and in some cases
M3 generation chips and those are just no longer being made.
right.
They're no longer really available.
I guess there's the iMac. What's the availability on an iMac?
I think you can get any configuration of an iMac too.
That's a question.
But it's also the amounts of RAM.
Because you can get a 96 gigabyte RAM MacStudio right now.
Well, you can't. You can order it,
Well, you can order it, but I'm saying like,
but you're never going to get it.
but it's the 128, 256, 512, those much higher,
which are not available on the MacBook Pro.
I think the most you can get on the MacBook Pro is 128,
128 is available on M5 Max.
but the 256, 512, they want to probably offer those tiers,
because once that M5 MacStudio goes on sale,
they want to be able to sell the most expensive model.
And maybe there's an issue with that.
I don't know.
That's some speculation, but anyway.
Yeah, I just think it has
more to do because you can buy ~ an iMac maxed out right now and it'll come next
week. And that's an M4 based thing.
So I think it is just a function.
I'm not saying the RAM shortage doesn't have anything to do with it.
What I'm saying is it's a specific RAM shortage on chips that are basically
end of life, not end of life, but like turning out of the cycle.
But yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.
And I feel like that's probably the thing here.
And you can probably, and you can get an iPad,
an M5 iPad Pro probably like tomorrow.
Absolutely, you probably go get it today.
Just go to Best Buy.
Yeah,
she's got a best buy, that's all it is.
All right, and speaking of money though that you might get from Apple,
Speaking of money...
speaking of money, Apple Intelligence.
So there was a class action lawsuit where it was basically a false advertising type
lawsuit because once the iPhone 16 launch,
Apple really pushed Apple Intelligence super hard,
so much so that they had put up videos on their YouTube channel with Bella Ramsey
talking about Apple Intelligence features,
took some of those videos down,
specifically the personalized Siri type ones.
And now this class action lawsuit,
Apple has settled with $250 million saying that if you bought devices
in the period where they were advertising,
this would be between June 10,
2024 and March 29, 2025.
Those devices would have been the 15 Pro and Pro Max and the entire 16 lineup.
If you bought any of those devices,
you might be eligible. This is like one of those like medication commercials.
Like you might be, you might be eligible for a pad.
you might get money from Apple.
The payout will be $25 per eligible device.
The maximum payout might be $95,
but it depends how many people file claims and want money from the device that they
bought. So the more people want to make this claim,
the less money everyone will get.
But yeah, Apple's gonna have to pay out for false advertising
for Apple Intelligence. And there's like two features specifically that
was under this heading. And basically the personalized Siri was the big one.
because there's actually videos on that,
like on Apple's YouTube channel.
There were commercials run on TV for that personalized cereal and they're gonna have
to pay $250 million. It's not that much,
They're paying nothing, Steven.
Tim
yeah, I know it's not that much.
Cook could literally just write this off of his taxes personally.
Like this is so nothing. Also,
this paragraph is, the editor in me is dying here.
I'm sorry, who wrote this 95 Mac article?
It was Chance, it was Chance Miller.
Is Chance, listen Chance, I think you're amazing.
And I don't think this is your fault because I think this is the
way it's been explained. The payout will be $25.
But that number could vary.
If a large number of people, it might be lower or the maximum is 95.
Then what is the, no one knows what is the $25 even mean?
I don't know the... yeah, yeah.
It's like Schrodinger's payout.
It's anything from $1 to $95 is what we're basically saying.
Again, this is not Jance's fault,
That's right.
but I'm just like, and the $250 million settlement includes attorney's fees.
This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.
Right.
Like no one bought one of those devices just because of the promises
of Apple intelligence. Literally zero people.
should be getting this money. if you,
mean, whatever, get your money.
I think it's fine. But it is so dumb because this is actually costing Apple nothing.
Yeah, get the money, that's fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It is just a way for a bunch of,
somebody saw those ads and was like,
this, I'm buying another house.
I'm super buying another house because I'm going to find a bunch of people
and I'm going to start a class action lawsuit.
And I just think this whole thing is so dumb.
Yeah.
The lawyers are basically going to make more money than any individual user.
Absolutely. They'll get a third of that.
yeah, there you go. Right,
they're going right, exactly. So the lawyers found a way to make a bag and then,
you know, that's that.
And Apple's
like, whatever for this amount of money.
Will you just go away? We know Siri sucks just Because it sucks way more than
That's exactly.
250 million dollars bad like come on
Yeah, exactly. Do you, you going to file the claim?
Are you going to get your $95 to $25?
I'm sure my wife will be like,
you're filing the claim, honey.
Cause she's using the 16 Pro right now and she's really real mad about the Apple,
Really? think- Really?
no, I'm just kidding. She doesn't even know that Apple intelligence is
I was gonna say, is she really?
a thing that exists in the world.
That's hilarious. All right, we need to talk about some data centers because
I keep there have been some wild videos on social media about data center
in Utah and people protesting that.
Then there's the data center in Tennessee that a friend,
Stephen Hackett is writing about and Kevin O'Leary from Shark Tank fame.
I don't know if it was his first day on the internet,
but he did not have a good video.
So we're going to we're going talk about all that.
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Okay, I know data centers don't sound exciting,
but I've been seeing more and more posts,
a lot of them are snazzy labs,
who I believe, Quinn Nelson lives in Utah,
and there's a massive data center that's going to be built in Utah.
I'll link the Axios article, which does not seem to be behind a paywall,
which is nice. You can just read about it.
But this data center is going to use twice as much energy
as the entire state has been using.
Okay? And there is much consternation because one,
it's going to take up a huge amount of space or whatever.
But the way this is going to be powered has been very contentious.
There's been like videos on X and I'll actually link a couple posts that Quinn
Nelson has been like commenting under.
But they were going to vote, the commissioners were going to vote
on this data center this past Monday and they had to delay it because just massive
protests, people shouting down these meetings and the
One of the biggest issues is the investors and those wanting to build
the data center are saying it's going to be powered by different kinds of energy.
It's going to be wind and solar and it's going to be cleaner-ish energy.
And even Kevin O'Leary, which we'll get to in a second,
who's I guess an investor in this data center,
is talking about how it's going to be clean energy.
But there's been several sources that say 100 % of the power will come from natural
gas.
And so that is going to create emissions.
And again, using more power than the entire state of Utah.
the equivalent is, I forget,
I can't find the number exactly.
Utah's annual average consumption is four gigawatts.
And at full capacity, this data center will reach nine gigawatts of power.
So more than double the amount of power that the entire state uses.
And so Kevin O'Leary,
He was like, if you're not familiar,
he's Mr. Wonderful, quote unquote,
on Shark Tank. And he posted this video on X.
This is, again, ~ it feels very tone deaf.
But he starts by saying, quote,
this is his tweet, I'm the only developer of data centers on Earth that graduated
from environmental studies. I'm pretty aware of what these concerns are.
They are around air, water use,
heat, noise pollution, and yada yada.
And then he has this long video,
it's like a minute, almost two minutes long.
I don't know if he had no coaching or if he just didn't care.
The whole video is weird because he's sitting in a car looking like off camera,
like not once does he look at the camera,
he's just like seemingly talking to the driver,
I guess. And he's basically saying how everyone's making a big deal about this
but nobody knows what they're talking about.
The reader context, there's like multiple links to the Axios article
and others talking about how what he's saying is.
not right and Quinn Nelson's right there underneath it.
This feels like one,
an inflection point of companies and the need of
the infrastructure to support all the AI usage is now hitting like real people
and people are not happy about it.
And they are protesting and they're like,
we don't want this massive data center in our state probably affecting water
sources.
and pollution and all of that and you have the one side Kevin O'Leary saying like
yeah he's just don't know what to say he's the only one on earth maybe
he is the only one on earth that's graduated from environmental studies
i also don't think he's like a developer of data centers like that's a
i don't know yeah what does that mean
Also, what does that mean? He graduated
from environmental studies. They did an environmental study on him and
he made it out. Like I don't even know what that means.
Is that what his degree is in?
Like what does it mean to say you graduated from environmental studies?
He graduated with college with a degree and I don't know,
Steven. This is not going to. This is not going to happen.
This is what you do so you can raise a bunch of money to build a
big data center because this is the thing right now that everyone is talking about.
But we don't need a trillion dollars of data centers,
right?
this moment, right? And how much solar do you think it will take to power this data
And not too much, too much.
center? The entire state of Utah would have to be covered in solar panels
to power a nine gigawatt ~ data center.
Like, I don't understand this,
Stephen.
Yeah, and this was the, I'll put a link to this X-post.
It's a video and it's actually showing like the meeting and just people yelling
and it's got like 10 million views here on X.
It's two and a half times the size of Manhattan.
40,000 acres. That's how this big,
this massive data center would be.
And Kevin O'Leary also claimed in his video that they were busing people
in for these meetings to try and make a stink about it.
Which is something we have heard in the past of like,
I don't know, trying to whatever.
But there's a ton of people also here on Xp like,
no, we've not been bused in. Like I live here,
here's a picture from like my house and like we don't want this data center.
And this is also why you hear like CEOs and people talking about data centers
in space or whatever, is so that they can do whatever.
no one's protesting the space data center,
There's no protesters there.
but just.
Just insane, just insane. And so that's that data center in Utah.
You're saying you don't think it's gonna happen.
You think this is gonna be voted down.
I mean, do you think that, ~ open AI is building $3 trillion with
the data centers or whatever insane number they said that they're going to do?
No, you do you say these things like,
~
What's his name? Mr. Wonderful.
doesn't Kevin O'Leary. He doesn't have the whatever $12 billion.
Yeah, Kevin O'Leary.
I don't even know if this thing's gonna cost.
He doesn't have that money. I the guy's got a lot of money,
but he doesn't have that kind of money.
So he's raising money for this.
This is not about data centers.
It's just a business. It's just it is literally an opportunity to seize the moment.
He has enough capital and enough credibility that he can get other people involved
to put a bunch of money together to start a project.
But by the time something actually gets built,
it's not going to be this.
That doesn't mean that the people shouldn't be protesting if they
if that's they feel. I personally don't think that we need.
Massive data centers everywhere.
I just don't think that's the quality of life that any of us wants,
but I think it's Neely that talks about software brain,
right? Where he this is a perfect example of that.
Right. Yeah.
People in Utah. Would much rather go outdoors and
see Utah than to go outdoors and see data centers everywhere,
right? And it's like you're.
We don't want to live on chat GPT or clawed like it's really useful,
but I would rather be able to go outside and someday you know I've been
to Utah a couple times. Someday it's like fun to go outdoors and see things like.
Right, and so I think that people are like yeah,
Yes, it is good to go outside.
Literally touch grass, as the kids say.
like you're so AI pill that you think a better use of this land.
Is to build a massive data center 2 1⁄2 times the size of I guess that's
the entire facility. I don't think that's the.
building itself, but like two and a half times the size of Manhattan.
See later.
Like it is such a weird dichotomy of like people who don't live in the real world,
but can just can just say things and get people to give money towards something
Right.
because right now that seems okay.
Or like seems like the hot new thing.
But this, mean, Steven, we haven't talked about it in a while,
Yeah.
but I mean, this kind of feels like a bubble.
Well that, yeah. So,
A 40,000 acre bubble.
okay, we're gonna talk about the second data center too and maybe that lends itself
to it. I do want to mention one other thing.
The physicist Robert Davies from Utah State University,
did say a natural gas powered data center of this size would raise Utah's
current total greenhouse gas production by about 50%.
Whether you feel like that's bad or not,
that's a significant difference.
Like one data center in the state.
So that's the Utah data center and
Again, like if you watch the videos,
like these people, they feel very strongly about it,
as you would, like if you lived in that town and they were about to build it,
like I totally get it. Then there was another deal.
This was announced by Anthropic.
They phrased or pitched it as like higher usage limits for Clawed,
like they're gonna raise the usage limits if you're on the Pro or the Max plan.
They're gonna take away some of the peak time limitations because of
a compute deal with SpaceX. And the crux of this is,
XAI was building a data center in Tennessee and it was going to be
a massive data center. ~ XAI is calling it Colossus One or SpaceX.
Sorry, another thing. Elon Musk,
he's saying SpaceX and XAI are not gonna be two different things.
Or XAI is not gonna be a separate thing anymore.
It's just SpaceX AI. It's just one word,
one company. Okay, cool.
So they were planning, XI was planning on building this data center in Memphis.
Colossus One, which I do have to give them credit.
Colossus is like a cool name, like for anything.
I mean, I don't know if it's cool to call it data center that,
~ but it's one of my favorite X-Men.
I'll just say that. Anyway, this is gonna be the,
it's gonna feature over 220,000 Nvidia GPUs.
You know how much money just the GPUs would cost?
I
don't know, but this is why you can't buy a Mac mini right now.
This is why you can't buy Mac mini or Mac Studio.
So Stephen Hackett has written about this and I will link his article.
But this massive data center, it was being built by XAI,
Colossus One, but guess what? They don't need it because they don't have use for it.
XAI is not that demanding of all the data.
And so they are licensing it to Anthropic and Anthropic will use this entire data
center. So Claude is going to be...
This is they're being able to raise the limits.
And this is a facility, I believe,
that's already built, correct?
And Colossus 2 is up and running.
And Musk says XAI no longer needs the first site.
it's like, is a data center that's already built.
And this is happening now. And mean,
Stephen Hackett, lives in Tennessee.
And yeah, he has covered this data center as well.
It's not super great.
Yeah, there's so many different things here you could spend a lot
of time thinking about. We won't spend any time on really any of them.
But the most interesting thing is like they built a data center and they can't
use it because no one's using XAI.
No one's using GROK. And so we're actually gonna just say it's the AI from SpaceX,
No one's using grok. Basically.
which.
What part of launching a rocket into space and satellites is AI exactly?
I don't fully understand how that all works still.
Again, was it in the pre-show we were talking about the pockets?
Because this is just more pockets,
Yes,
Stephen.
It's more important. Yeah, it's just moving money around to different pockets,
but.
It's like
I don't have any money in this pocket,
but I have a bunch of money in this other one and I need some over here.
So I'm just going to move it around.
Like, I don't know.
Yeah, hopefully our entire landscape doesn't become data centers.
That's all. Let's not do that.
And I know the US has a lot of land.
Yeah.
I mean, I understand that. I've driven through some of those middle states.
But we also don't need to have huge data centers.
Listen, we don't
like to be talked about as the middle states.
Can I just say I saw a map of someone showing what the Midwest is,
and the states that are claimed to be Midwest,
and how many are neither west of the center line nor ~ south.
It's just like, I don't know.
Yeah, the Midwest, we live in the Midwest,
but really, we're just slightly west of the East Coast.
It's fine. But I just think that I just feel like you call us the middle states.
Exactly
There's this ~ famous like West Wing quote where he's like something there's like,
don't know how we're going to reach the flyover states and the other guys like,
you could start by not calling them the flyover states.
Right, right exactly.
Listen, everything west of New York is the Midwest because I grew up in New York.
No, I'm just kidding. If I made you mad,
I'm sorry.
I'm not mad. Pennsylvania is not the Midwest though.
Yeah, Pennsylvania is the Midwest.
But isn't like Ohio is the Midwest and it's like,
Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin,
and it's not even close to being the west side of the United States.
Minnesota, Missouri.
It's just funny.
But the West is
like, is sort of, well, we're not,
we don't have time.
Anyway, leave us a five star rating review,
let us know, where does the Midwest start?
What state starts the Midwest?
All right, the OpenAI Musk trial is still going on and Mira Moradi took the stand.
She is a former, or was a former CEO of OpenAI.
I feel like she was, she was CEO for like five minutes.
was super briefly the CEO. They needed a
~
CEO because they booted Sam Altman and so they needed a CEO and she became
Yes.
CEO and then he came back and then shortly later she left.
Yeah, so she was super quick, but,
and some of the rumors swirling around that departure of Miramirati was like,
is Sam Altman not a good dude?
And so on the stand, Miramirati testified that Altman falsely stated that
OpenAI's legal department determined a new AI model did not need to
go through the company's deployment safety board.
And so they asked Miramirati, as you understand it,
was Mr. Altman telling the truth when he made that statement to you?
And Miramirati answered in a deposition,
no.
So she just made it clear that Sam Altman lied about some of
the safety measures that they were supposedly taking when they were putting these
models. And remember, this case,
this is Elon Musk trying to make Sam Altman look like a really bad dude.
And then it's Sam Altman trying to make Elon Musk look like a really bad dude.
So neither of them have to give up anything or pay any money.
But it is interesting to hear some of the testimony now of former OpenAI.
The former OpenAI CEO is like,
yeah, Sam Altman kind of lied to my face and was not doing the safety precautions.
Yeah. Yeah, there's that.
There's I
really wish it was video of this trial.
Like I really want to see these people on the stand because people also said Elon
Musk like lost his temper after the lawyer said,
do you, you Elon Musk said I'm a pretty calm person.
And then it immediately proceeded to,
Which is a thing you should never say when you're on the stand with a
never say, never say.
lawyer being cross-examined because the only thing they're gonna do at that point
is try to get you to lose your temper.
That's it. That's the only thing they have to do
that.
That's it. So yeah. All right.
Let's talk about some streaming apps because this we either didn't mention this
is happening after we recorded but Netflix rolled out a feature of their app.
So they're basically reels and Instagram and Tik Tok now.
So there's that. I still. This is you know this way you can discover more shows
Yeah, I know if this is good.
and so it's launched a know vertical feed for its app.
OK.
But if these are just
gonna be previews of the shows,
this sucks. If they're like clips or something,
Well.
that's fine. But all they're gonna do is make a vertical feed of ads for shows.
No, it's not ads and it's not even the trailers.
It's not like you would see a movie trailer.
They're literally like clips from the shows basically like you would
see on TikTok and Instagram, which you know,
I've seen so many just random clips.
There's also a good article on the verge right now called the clippening like
a play on words from the happening.
Just talking about all the anonymous accounts clipping content like from podcasts
and stuff. It's wild. But this is basically that is Netflix saying,
yeah, just come to our app. I'm curious like how many people are actually going
to scroll a vertical TikTok feed in the Netflix app.
I can't imagine very many people.
I don't
Yeah,
I don't know. But this is like you go to the grocery store to buy produce,
right? And what if your favorite fast food restaurants like well,
you know what? Everyone's going to the grocery store to buy produce.
What if we just had produce? It's like you don't you don't get it,
What if we sell broccoli?
dude. We don't want the produce from,
you know, the Bob's Chicken or whatever.
Mmm, that's good.
Like we go to the grocery store for that.
There's already an app. If you want to watch tick tock style videos of these shows,
Yeah.
Right.
you know where you do. You just go to tick tock.
But the.
That's it.
All of these apps will not be satisfied until you spend 100 % of your free time with
their app open on your phone.
That's
the thing. That's the thing. And Disney is also going to try and make
a play for this. They say it's going to try and become a super app,
which I'm also kind of tired of that term,
super app.
Yeah, but OK.
Other side of this argument. Disney kind of actually has an argument
Yes.
for this because they're like the Super Corporation,
right? You got boats, you got theme parks,
Fair.
you got streaming services, you got movie theaters,
you got ABC, you got all these ESPN sporting events.
I mean, it's honestly not insane that Disney might have an app where
Yeah, yeah.
you could do all those things.
I don't know if it's a good idea or not,
but it's not like it's not like Uber,
which is now like.
Hey, you you hailed a car, what if you hailed a hotel room?
Like it's like, right? But at least Disney has all this stuff.
Hello, hotel room.
And Disney's not adding a vertical scrolling feed of video yet that we know of,
but this super app is supposedly like the Disney parks and resorts and cruises.
There's like Disney apps for all these things and they're gonna try and bring
it all into one. I feel like when you try to put too much into a single app,
it becomes pretty messy. That's just my opinion.
That's why like apps that do kind of one thing well,
except for Jason's app, which does notes,
reminders, and events very well.
Just throwing that out there.
It's
just the perfect flow. Yeah.
perfect
flow. I also think it's hilarious that this like Disney image
has like multiple sequels as what they're showing off.
It's like Frozen 2, Hocus Pocus 2.
yeah. Anyway Disney Super App,
Yeah.
cruise line. Have you ever been on a Disney cruise?
I've been on Disney Cruise twice actually.
Is it pretty good?
Yeah, this is back when Disney was like leasing its boats from someone else,
but they were pretty cool. It was,
I mean, they weren't huge boats at the time.
I still think Disney's cruise ships are not like the big,
big ones because they don't have to be the,
Yeah.
that doesn't have to be the attraction because you know,
there's Mickey Mouse.
Right.
Right. I have been on the big,
big, ~ I've been on the Harmony of the Seas from Royal Caribbean.
The big ships are pretty fun. I'll give you that.
They're fun stuff. Vox, which is the parent company of The Verge,
Yeah, I agree.
might be getting acquired. this was recently,
or earlier this week, the Wall Street Journal reports and others that James Murdoch,
son of Rupert Murdoch, is in talks to buy Vox and New York Magazine
and the podcast division, which includes shows like
The Vergecast actually waveform MKBHD's podcast as part of the Vox Media Network.
And also, what is the Scott Galloway pivot with Kara Swisher?
pivot.
So James Murdoch might be, he is in talks too,
and possibly late talks to acquire all of that.
But you said you heard Kara Swisher talking about this specifically?
~ Well, she was saying that That probably for most people not much will change
and maybe she was talking specifically about her show because what it means
to be a part of the network simply means that they just pooled together shows
to buy ad inventory, right? So it's like you actually I think on
a recent most recent episode of waveform They actually talked about
not this but what does it mean to be a part of boxes podcast network?
And I think it was MKB HD was like well what that means is that?
they sell ads because a big advertiser could look at six shows and be like,
well, we'll buy ads on all six shows instead of those six companies together trying
to do all that. so from that perspective,
I don't think that it would because I think like MKBHD owns this podcast
and Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway own Pivot.
They're just a part of the network.
And that's I think it's different than like Relay where Relay,
think, owns those shows. I don't know how that part of it works.
Yeah, anyway.
Yeah, I'm not sure exactly.
If I gotta talk to a relay host and find out,
Something like that. Well,
I'm just kidding. It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
I'm still new. I'm still new. But that's one of the reasons why I always,
I mention this and I don't think it's,
I don't know. I don't know how much people care,
whatever. like, that's why I wanted this show to be so,
like so independent. It's not under any umbrella.
And when you're not under an umbrella,
it is very difficult to like grow and sometimes get sponsors.
We do work with an ad agency.
But they're like they don't have exclusivity and they don't like they're
not over the show at all And so it is very different like all the shows
as you see vox media network Which is a bunch of shows like also all
the verge shows so you got the verge you have version history Decoder all of that.
We're not we're not we're literally independent.
We're like the Just this the dude on the corner like it's just us.
Yeah, we're just a bunch of dudes on the corner.
We're just us out here Which is just a That's right,
We've been in hotel rooms. I've recorded the show from Denmark.
that's right
We're just dudes
in places.
That's right,
and you might be recording somewhere else pretty soon.
~ And that might be true.
Anyway, we'll get to that in a second.
A couple quick bits. The US Supreme Court,
SCOTUS, Apple has been trying to pause this ~ in the Epic case,
so Apple v Epic Games. Remember,
Judge Gonzales Rogers held Apple in contempt for not
~ following the ruling in the previous Epic Games course,
saying that they're still being hostile with the whole like,
app developers and linking out other apps and things like that.
And Apple's been trying to pause that order.
still, didn't realize that was still going on.
But the Supreme Court said, no,
you don't get to pause this. And so I'm still not sure what this will change
in people's experience in the apps.
Maybe some apps won't get rejected now if they link out to something,
but yeah.
Yeah, well, I
think what happened here is I'm trying to remember I was like scanning through this
turn remember, but essentially like YGR is how we what we call her judge YGR.
Yes, the judge. Who's also the judge in the Elon Musk Sam Altman trial.
~ Yeah,
there's only like a couple of these judges.
There's Judge Meta Judge Gonzalez Rogers.
We just keep popping up. They never wanted to be famous.
And yet here we are. We call her YGR.
That's right. That's right. YG.
We should we should call her judge.
I should I don't mean any disrespect.
But anyway, Your Honor. Yes, Judge.
Your Honor.
OK, but.
~ Basically, she was like, you're,
you're in contempt because you didn't implement this in the way that
I intended and you're being belligerent about it.
And I think Apple's appeal is essentially like,
Right.
well, we weren't being belligerent,
we actually have an argument, you can't say that the the amount can't be zero.
So there is an amount and you just disagree with the amount.
So that's not the same thing as anyway.
And so she issued this ruling.
And I think what Apple is saying until we can go back and totally figure out
what that should be, this should be paused,
right? And I think the Supreme Court was like,
just do the thing. Just do the thing.
No. Just do the thing.
And this is one of those, you know,
it's about money. Apple doesn't want to give a
Also Apple
won on nine of 10 counts. This is the one count they lost.
Exactly that. Okay, well, we to get to personal tech.
We have a bunch of personal tech and or bonus content we might get to,
but I do also want to shout out Transistor.fm.
did a little case study on us.
Some friend, Justin Jackson, he's the co-founder of Transistor and
didn't hurt or
anything. The case study it didn't hurt I didn't feel anything.
It didn't hurt, totally painless.
I didn't even didn't even know what happened.
Exactly.
But he was asking what has been the video podcast experience,
and so I've been sharing with him some numbers.
And you can see, however you feel about video and Apple podcasts,
the exposure it has gotten this show is tremendous.
It's a lot more. But there are also a lot of things like the challenges
or the downsides, like chapters and all that kind of stuff.
I did mention all of that. And I don't know,
maybe I'll have an update on that.
some of this stuff in a couple weeks.
~ That's all I can say about that.
We'll see. But I voice the concerns as well.
Okay, great, I can't wait.
And I would just say that the right people heard it.
The right people saw the concerns.
That's all I'll say. That's all I'll say.
Good.
I'm not the right people because I didn't know that this happened.
So I did not see that, but I already know the concerns are.
It's fine.
Exactly. All right, got a bunch of stuff.
mean, the Spirit Airlines thing happened.
Spirit just totally went under randomly.
You wrote about that. I have an app I'm doing.
I don't know. What should we talk about?
What was your article about Spirit?
Oh, we're in the personal tech section now.
This is the personal tech segment.
Okay. Well,
Yeah.
I mean, I've never flown Spirit in my entire life.
I do have friends that used to like,
Neither have I.
I think this is either in high school or college,
like they'd fly from Michigan to Florida for like $19 each way.
And you had to pack in your backpack because you weren't allowed to check
a bag for that price or whatever.
But like, it is kind of insane to think how can an airline exist
if they're only charging $19 for a one way flight or whatever.
But the the article that I wrote was that there's two
Yeah.
Two different airlines had announcements on the same day,
and both of them pointed at the same thing,
which is gas prices super high,
right? One of those airlines went under,
like just stopped flying altogether,
and that was Spirit, they were like basically the cost of fuel.
And the cost of jet fuel has been the highest cost for airlines for a long time,
right there with employee costs,
right? And over like the last couple of years,
labor costs have actually exceeded that ~ for most airlines.
But suddenly fuel costs just jumped right back up there and it just
no longer became profitable to fly these airplanes because of how expensive it is.
Like I drove past a sign. I don't know what it's like in Florida,
but I drove past a sign where it's like $4.99 a gallon here and $6.99
a gallon for diesel. So like milk's getting more expensive.
Everything's getting more expensive.
And so, and then the same day Delta put out a press release that they're giving
everybody a raise. 4 % raise. They had promised it.
Wow. That's wow.
They do this. They've been doing it for several years.
They sent in a letter saying, Hey,
despite the fact that, you know,
costs are insane, we're going to
we're going invest in our people because we think that that's the right thing to do.
It was just an interesting contrast.
People can pick on Delta because they are more expensive,
but also they're still flying.
That's right. They also, I saw they stopped serving snacks to economy
on flights less than an hour or something.
~ Delta.
Yeah, I think you're going to stop doing
the service, but I think you could like still ask for bottles of water
or whatever it is. But like, I mean,
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fine.
yeah, I get it.
That's fine. It was just crazy to me.
I saw all the videos on TikTok and Reels of like people who had flights booked
on Spirit and all the airports were like,
if you had a flight on Spirit,
do not come to the airport. There's no one here to help you.
Right. There's no spirit anymore.
Just doesn't exist. And then there's like one guy who's like trying
to raise enough money to maybe buy the airline.
I don't even know how that works.
I can't imagine that that's possible.
Well, and
you can't just because the airline went under doesn't mean you can buy it
for like a dollar because there's loans on all those planes,
right? You'd have to be able to pay off all that debt.
Right.
Right, exactly. I will say, know,
Spirit and Frontier are like the ultra low-cost airlines,
LCCs as they call them. And I've never flown Spirit,
but I did fly Frontier once. Have ever flown Frontier?
I don't think so.
They had a direct flight to Vegas from Orlando and my wife and I flew it.
Let me tell you, I did not realize a plane could be that low cost.
As in like, like the seats,
Ha
there's like no padding in the seats.
It's just basically like a plastic wrapped,
like there's, there's like,
You have to pay extra for a cushion.
there's like no cushion. And like the tray table was like the size of like a,
like a $20 bill. It was just like,
that was the trade. I was like,
this, I did not realize.
that this is ultra low cost. people were like,
is a little, you people actually had nostalgic feelings about Spirit because they
were like, allowed me to travel places because it was ultra cheap.
And yeah, so there's that.
Yeah.
I flew Southwest once. That's as low as I go.
Yeah, Southwest
is fine. They have assigned seating now though.
It's like a different experience.
Yeah, if you're going to if you're going to do that,
you might as well just fly United or Delta or whatever.
Anyway, you fly a lot. Wait, do you want to say here where you might be going,
or do want to save it? You have a lot of trips coming up.
I have a lot of trips coming up.
But one
of them would be really fun. I might I'm only going to say is,
I've been to a couple grand prix's.
This year I might be going to the mother of all grand prix's.
Yes.
mother of all Grand Prix's. ~
I think that is
the official term. I don't think that's the official term,
Mother of all Grand Prix's. MOAGP.
but I think it is the most famous one.
And can you say what you'll be doing there?
Not yet. OK, just kidding. Just kidding.
I definitely cannot say what I'm going to be doing there.
Just kidding. No,
That's wild.
I
can say that to our listeners,
I'm I'm hoping to be in Monaco during the time when there's a Grand Prix.
Let me just that's all I'm going to say.
That's amazing.
That's amazing. That's very cool.
You also might be going to Google I.O.
Yeah, I'm going to be at Google IO.
Did you get, like, do you have to get invited to that?
Did you get an invite for
Yeah, I
did get an invitation. I've gone,
this'll be the fourth year, I think.
Yeah, I know you'd normally go.
Last year I got to check out their glasses,
you know.
Right, right, yeah. I didn't get any invite for that,
so you'll have to vicariously.
You could just send them an email.
Yeah, I guess I don't have an email.
I'm also like, I mean, I'm holding out for dub-dub.
Hopefully I just get an invite for that.
He's like, didn't get an invite.
I mean, I would like to go,
I also don't really care. It's fine.
but you know, it's all a trip.
It ~
is a very different experience than Dub-Dub in a lot of ways.
Okay.
One, it's a live presentation,
so there's that. It's in the amphitheater in Mountain View.
That's nice.
~ They're different.
mean, they have the same feel to developer conferences,
it is sort of like a chaotic feel to the whole thing.
really? Is it multi-days?
Maybe it's because I usually fly
in super late. There's usually two days.
I don't usually stick around for the second day,
but it's like I usually fly in late,
like the Monday night if it's on Tuesday and then you have to be there super early.
It doesn't start till 10, but you got to be there like eight o'clock,
which is kind of like dub dub.
~ And then there's stuff you do in the afternoon and then I fly home
Yeah.
and it's so maybe my mind is just like I have to ramp myself up for this even less
You're there like 36 hours, basically?
than that. Usually I'm usually in town for roughly 24 hours.
Less than that.
That's wild. Okay, that would stress me out,
Yeah, a little bit.
but ~ I'll stay a more days. I'll mention one personal tech thing.
AirPods Pro 3, I've been using them since they came out and I really like them.
Have you been still on the AirPods Pro 3?
Yeah, I have a real personal tech thing here in a second,
but go ahead.
Okay,
well you get that. Well, comply is the tips,
the third party tips that I use on the AirPods Pro 2.
And when the threes came out, Apple adjusted the tips enough where they've been
comfortable and they've stayed in my ears better than past models.
The AirPods Pro 3 had that little like foam inside that helps it expand and keep it.
But there were still times where I found the AirPods Pro 3 sliding out just
a little bit and I would have to like re-seat them like if I was doing
my grocery shopping or whatever.
And so Comply finally came out with their AirPods Pro 3 tips.
And so I did get them. These are like the Max version.
They didn't send them to me. I just bought them on Amazon.
They're like 25 bucks. They come in a couple different colors.
And I will say I've used them now for the past couple days.
I really like them. I still like and prefer the Comply tips over
the even AirPods Pro 3, even though those are better and improved over the two.
I prefer the Comply. They're super solid in my ear.
I find...
I get a better ANC experience because of the seal and because they don't slightly
slip out and they're still super comfortable.
These do get, because they're more foam,
they can, like after a year of use or maybe less depending on
how much you're sweating in them,
they can get not as nice, but they're also like 25 bucks.
And so you can get a pack where all three are the same size and so
you can basically get three pairs for like 25 bucks.
of all mediums and so if they do get really nasty you can just toss them
and just use the next pair and you could have like three years of tips in it.
But I still, I really like these,
I got them and I recommend if you struggle with AirPods Pro 3 sliding
out or maybe they're not comfortable for you I would try the...
Nice. All right. Well, I mean,
Yeah, what do you got?
I have a fun, fun device. ~ I was just double checking to make sure that
Yes, yes.
No embargo.
the embargo had actually still passed and the most recent email I have says it's
passed. Okay. I just wanted to double check.
Okay.
If not, I'll text you later and be like,
you should delete this ~ the whole section.
delete that part.
No. So as everyone knows, I'm a fan of the remarkable.
I have been using, okay, it's on their website.
So that's good. I've been using the paper pro move for a while,
Okay.
which is the small one they released,
Yes.
I guess it was yesterday. The pure,
The pure, yeah, I think so.
which I also have here. Hold on.
I can't see anything. and this is,
it's bigger. I don't.
is bigger than the move, like.
Yeah, I don't have one of the original ones here with me,
like the paper pro or the remarkable or the remarkable to
but this one is smaller and it also has the nice area on the side where
you can hold it, which is really nice.
Yes.
~ And this is basically the new entry level version.
So it's the non-color, but it does have mostly the same specs as like
the Paper Pro Move, just with a bigger screen.
It doesn't have a backlight, which is one of the ways they've saved on expenses.
like a lot of Kindles don't have a backlight,
right? The entry level ones, you have to be somewhere where you can actually have
a light shining on it versus the Paper Pro and the Paper Pro Move.
which in addition to being color also have their own internal backlight.
So I think it's really great. It's remarkable.
Okay.
It's a little bit less expensive,
right? Right now it's the least expensive one you can get.
And if you're looking to try out something like this,
there is now an option that you don't have to pay as much for the large size one.
It's kind cool.
It looks,
so we actually talk on the next Mac Power Users episode all about e-readers with
Jason Snell. He's our guest this Sunday.
And we talk about these kind of multi-devices.
Neither Jason Snell nor David nor I have done these things.
But I know you use them all the time,
right? Like you use them.
Yeah,
but I would say this is not a multi device just to be clear.
Okay, and I wrote about this when I wrote about the Kindle color soft.
What is the recent the newest one called?
I don't know. It's right over here.
It's the Colorsoft, I thought.
I got the killer. All right, the ammo,
because I got it for my son for Christmas.
It's the Kindle Colorsoft. They have the Colorsoft signature.
I got one of those two right here.
Okay. I don't know.
Is that what you mean?
I don't know. Anyway, doesn't matter.
So I wrote about this when I did a review of the of the Kindle.
The Kindle is a book reading device that you can also write on.
Okay. If you want to take notes on your books,
Yes.
whatever, it is not a note taking device.
It is not a here's my calendar for the day and I'm going to take notes
in my meetings. That is not what this Kindle is.
It can. Thank you. Kindle scribe color soft.
The Kindle scribe is what you're thinking of.
I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah.
Right. Okay. The names are hard.
These companies don't make it easy.
It is not.
Kindle scribe
color stuff. Yeah, you gotta write that.
Yeah, okay.
It is not a multi-device. It is a single device that does more than one thing,
which is an important distinction.
And I would argue that the remarkable is the same.
It is not a reading device. Could you load PDS on here and read them?
You can. Have I done it? Yes. Is it terrible?
Yes. In a pinch, if this is the only thing you wanted to carry around,
You
it's like fine for documents. Or if it's like,
I got to look at this thing later so I can put it on here,
that's fine. Or like I've used it for like...
moderating panels. Like literally this is an overview for moderating
a panel and it's great. And that was just a PDF that I put on here and then
I can make notes on it that's fine.
But this is a writing device. It is a note taking device.
And if you would like to read stuff on it,
that's fine, but it is not meant for that.
And so these two devices look like they overlap and book reading devices look like
they are parallel to this. But I would argue they are actually there.
They are only the same in the way that a journal notebook is the same as a book.
No, for real.
Okay, sure.
I get that. No, I get that. I get that.
Right? Could
you stick pages of a book in your notebook and then read it later?
Yes, you could, but you wouldn't want to do that.
Just like you can take notes in your actual book,
but you wouldn't be like journaling or writing notes from a meeting in your like,
write your Patterson books or whatever.
No, no, I get it.
But like, I mean, these devices look beautiful and I love the idea of them.
Where, outside of making notes while we record this show,
well, one, do you do that on the remarkable while we're recording?
I was not doing that today, but I have done that many,
times today. The thing that was closest to my reach was a piece of paper.
So I just was writing him out a piece of paper.
Okay,
where do you use this in your day to day work?
So I ~ typically will use it because I don't have it set up on this
one because I didn't move everything over,
but I guess I could just show you the move.
I use a, you can download templates for these and you can just go to like Etsy
or these, there's like a store planner pro something.com and you just download your
this and you can have your calendar on it and then you can take notes
to have to do's. You can swipe over and it has a page where you
can like literally write all your notes from all of your meetings and everything.
And then you have everything in one place.
So you use it daily?
when I leave the house.
when you leave the house.
Wait, so that's it. Wait, so you use it.
You don't use it at your house.
Well, I guess what I meant was I don't just sit here and write my notes on it.
I use it for meetings. I use it to keep my calendar on it.
I make I take my to do list and I write my to do list on here every
day because the act of writing it out is really helpful.
I would say I don't use it as as quote religiously as I had been because
I also go back and forth between the UG monk like the analog cards.
And I do have a small little notebook that I use with those as well.
So but that's because I end up like trying a lot of
different things, but what the remarkable is where I have a friend who uses
it like for everything. Every time I've ever sat in a meeting with him,
this is all he brings. Yeah.
Really?
I have still never personally tried a remarkable,
I'll be honest. And they look so tempting because it looks so good.
But you also don't take notes on paper,
I don't.
so.
Aspirationally, I feel like maybe I would.
Yeah, but you won't. Like, I don't mean that.
I'm not being mean. I'm just saying if you're already not doing that,
No, you're right, you're right.
you don't need this. This will not make you take notes on paper.
Right, and I also, like if I were to get one,
I mean the new one is nice, but I feel like the Move is a nice size because it's
like a notepad size. But yeah,
Yeah, that's great.
I guess I wish I was a handwritten note person.
I don't know why. It just feels like that would be a nice thing to be.
~ Because they're fun things to carry around and if you write in notebooks,
It's fun to care. Yes.
it's fun to have
notebooks that have your personality instead of just like typing
it into reminders every time you have to write something down.
See, yes, that all sounds great.
But if you're not doing it, you're not going to do it.
I think it's also Yeah,
Don't spend 500 bucks on one of these.
If it's not.
because
that's that's that's been the hindrance it's like 450 well if you want
to get the pen the mark marker too You have to spend five hundred something dollars
and i've not done that yet I I guess I just want another excuse to buy
a gadget that I haven't had yet,
but I won't I won't do that. I mean I bought this this boondoggle this
I saw this on social media.
This is a casus it is a
Mac Pro looking enclosure for a Mac Mini and you can basically like screw your
Mac Mini into this thing and then you get like an SD card slot on top
you get like more USB ports on one side and you get like
the display ports and other USB C I don't know why I got this I got it
to make a reel basically and ~ because I don't even get affiliate revenue
for it but I'm like that's I don't know I just wanted an excuse
to buy something else but thanks for not enabling me I appreciate that
You
I that.
right, well, let's see. We're to go record a bonus episode.
I'm going talk about the app that I'm making.
And then, I don't know, maybe we'll talk about your app more.
You kind of mentioned your app.
We'll talk about it again. We'll see.
Yeah, but
I didn't I didn't well, yeah, you're right because if we do it in
the bonus I already went through all that for the bonus listener,
so
Yeah, if you don't listen to...
I'm curious if people listen to the bonus episode but not the unedited show.
Anyway, I'd be curious. Listen,
if you just want to listen to all of it,
what you should do is go to join.primary.com.
There's a link down in the show notes where you can get a deal.
$25 a year or $2.50 a month. You get an ad-free version,
the unedited version, which is actually edited,
but it includes a pre-show. Maybe we should rename it.
I don't know. But it has like our 30 to 45 minute pre-show as we shuck and jive.
the show ad free and then the bonus episode all in one feet so you get that
you get primary tech daily which is Monday through Friday it's a five minute show
just top news headlines I read that off and yeah you get all the benefits
and you support the show so you can sign up that link is down in the show notes
you can also watch us in Apple podcast Spotify or YouTube we're almost
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is it at right now maybe it can celebrate we're at 3,000 ~ I gotta switch
my account 3,000
984. We need 16 more subscribers to get to 4,000 on YouTube.
So go over there subscribe to YouTube channel.
No, no, no, no, that's not right.
What?
Is
it 84? Okay, got it. I'm sorry.
I can't even see what it it's I can't see what you can see.
Sorry. You were right. You did math correctly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm in the YouTube studio.
did
I'm sorry.
the math correctly, thank you.
So go subscribe, so we got 4,000 over on YouTube.
But thanks for watching, listening wherever you are.
Leave us a five, I got no five star rating and reviews talking about
the Dell Venue Pro, which I understand I might be the only person that
has ever bought one and liked it.
But you know, shout out if you ever used a Windows mobile phone,
leave us a five star rating and review.
Tell us which phone model you had and if you loved it.
And yeah, thanks for listening,
thanks for watching. We'll catch you next time.