00:00:48.166 --> 00:00:49.846 Duke: All right, Corey, what are we talking about today? 00:00:50.296 --> 00:00:50.776 CJ: man, duke. 00:00:50.776 --> 00:00:52.546 Today we're gonna talk about hackathons. 00:00:53.206 --> 00:00:54.326 Duke: Oh, my favorite 00:00:54.766 --> 00:00:55.696 CJ: Yeah, I know, man. 00:00:55.696 --> 00:00:57.016 You're only like a what? 00:00:57.016 --> 00:00:58.276 20 time champion 00:00:58.666 --> 00:00:59.176 Duke: four. 00:00:59.181 --> 00:00:59.956 But who's counting? 00:01:03.526 --> 00:01:04.906 CJ: Seriously impressive man. 00:01:04.906 --> 00:01:05.926 Seriously impressive. 00:01:06.196 --> 00:01:09.453 Duke: I mean, I was on the early ones, so the competition, got more 00:01:09.453 --> 00:01:10.773 and more and more over the years. 00:01:11.103 --> 00:01:12.243 CJ: Nah, don't do that though. 00:01:12.243 --> 00:01:12.663 Don't do that. 00:01:12.663 --> 00:01:15.303 We're not gonna do the understated our accomplishments thing. 00:01:17.073 --> 00:01:17.793 you killed it, man. 00:01:17.973 --> 00:01:18.723 You won four. 00:01:18.728 --> 00:01:22.286 It's like, Michael Jordan said, ah, I only won like six championships, but 00:01:22.291 --> 00:01:23.546 Oh, you're playing in the nineties. 00:01:23.651 --> 00:01:25.181 Duke: I didn't fill two hands with rings. 00:01:25.181 --> 00:01:25.931 Come on now. 00:01:28.136 --> 00:01:31.076 CJ: Seriously, four hackathon championships is a huge accomplishment 00:01:31.076 --> 00:01:34.646 and you're probably the best person to have on this podcast, 00:01:34.651 --> 00:01:36.506 right, to talk about hackathons. 00:01:36.506 --> 00:01:36.686 Right. 00:01:36.691 --> 00:01:39.476 This is one of those where we have the guest expert in house. 00:01:40.166 --> 00:01:41.276 Duke: I appreciate that, man. 00:01:41.276 --> 00:01:42.326 It means extra coming from you. 00:01:42.716 --> 00:01:43.286 CJ: Yeah, no doubt. 00:01:43.623 --> 00:01:46.323 Duke: yeah, so we're gonna talk about, why you might want to be 00:01:46.323 --> 00:01:49.296 on hackathons and, , just some. 00:01:49.326 --> 00:01:52.536 rules for Success, rules for Optimal Performance on a Hackathon. 00:01:53.316 --> 00:01:56.136 But why don't we start with like a, why would I, right? 00:01:56.136 --> 00:01:57.726 Because it's a huge time investment. 00:01:58.086 --> 00:02:00.906 The ones at Knowledge were kind of like all nighters, so you're 00:02:01.386 --> 00:02:02.376 sacrificing a night of sleep. 00:02:02.653 --> 00:02:03.823 why would I want to go through that? 00:02:04.199 --> 00:02:05.609 CJ: Yeah, I mean, that's a good question, right? 00:02:05.609 --> 00:02:08.999 I, you know, personally, I think like that sacrifice in a whole night of 00:02:09.004 --> 00:02:12.643 sleep thing kinda lends a little bit to the intense feeling of it, right? 00:02:12.643 --> 00:02:16.618 It's like, oh man, we gonna, yeah, I'll be, Up banging out code all night and 00:02:16.618 --> 00:02:18.178 we're gonna deliver something in a day. 00:02:18.178 --> 00:02:19.798 Like you feel that sense of accomplishment? 00:02:20.078 --> 00:02:21.098 , to me that's what it is. 00:02:21.218 --> 00:02:21.518 Yeah. 00:02:21.518 --> 00:02:23.558 That's why I would do it, the sense of accomplishment. 00:02:23.558 --> 00:02:25.478 But I think there's a lot of other reasons too. 00:02:25.958 --> 00:02:26.588 Duke: Oh yeah, man. 00:02:26.593 --> 00:02:30.128 Like I, there's no doubt that a large part of my motivations for the ones I 00:02:30.658 --> 00:02:32.048 participated in was Fortune and Glory. 00:02:32.048 --> 00:02:36.731 Like the first one was such a, a sense of. 00:02:37.806 --> 00:02:41.546 I have a perspective on something and I have this idea for an 00:02:41.546 --> 00:02:43.796 app that I know would work. 00:02:44.036 --> 00:02:48.009 And so in the first hackathon at Knowledge 13, man, we had everybody there. 00:02:48.009 --> 00:02:50.513 We had Chris York and Matt Barron and 00:02:50.674 --> 00:02:51.584 CJ: Shout out Matt 00:02:51.619 --> 00:02:53.719 Duke: yeah, Michael Bar Koyak 00:02:53.819 --> 00:02:55.589 jeremy Gartner we had there. 00:02:55.829 --> 00:03:00.389 It was just, it was a big, huge team and we were like brainstorming on a call and I 00:03:00.389 --> 00:03:04.541 was like, guys, have you ever noticed that when they make decisions on projects, it's 00:03:04.541 --> 00:03:08.591 kind of like in a closed door operation, it's like everybody's got these ideas 00:03:08.591 --> 00:03:12.695 for projects and nobody really has a say 00:03:13.107 --> 00:03:15.777 There's like a bunch of people that go into a boardroom and they come out 00:03:15.777 --> 00:03:16.887 and it's like, here's the projects we. 00:03:17.532 --> 00:03:19.992 And I'm like, but somehow the organization has all kinds of 00:03:20.322 --> 00:03:21.252 resources just hidden around. 00:03:21.252 --> 00:03:25.373 And recently come across Kickstarter and I'm like, what if we put Kickstarter 00:03:25.378 --> 00:03:28.443 in ServiceNow for project, initiation? 00:03:28.893 --> 00:03:30.063 CJ: Oh man, I remember that one. 00:03:30.243 --> 00:03:33.243 Duke: So it is like, what if you know, like we should have a mobile app. 00:03:33.278 --> 00:03:35.138 For our time entry or whatever. 00:03:35.168 --> 00:03:37.898 Cuz our normal time entry sucks and we have to have a time entry field 00:03:37.898 --> 00:03:42.008 for our time entry cause it takes so damn long and let's get that done. 00:03:42.068 --> 00:03:45.458 And somebody says I have an extra 10,000 in my budget that I'm not 00:03:45.458 --> 00:03:46.748 using, I'm gonna dedicate to that. 00:03:46.838 --> 00:03:51.608 Or I have a iOS developer that's suboptimally usage for this quarter. 00:03:51.715 --> 00:03:55.585 And we can kickstart our projects internally based off of donated 00:03:55.585 --> 00:03:57.235 organizational resources. 00:03:57.657 --> 00:03:59.697 CJ: Man, that is, that's still a good idea, 00:04:00.072 --> 00:04:05.542 Duke: It is, but like I was convinced it was like, I'm convinced this could work. 00:04:05.542 --> 00:04:08.972 And I'm maybe like a little bit more sobered on how, corporate 00:04:08.972 --> 00:04:10.232 resource management works. 00:04:10.555 --> 00:04:13.908 But two releases later, we had ideation. 00:04:14.668 --> 00:04:19.618 And so I like to think that I had some part in that, but it's, absolutely 00:04:19.623 --> 00:04:22.908 a fortune and glory thing where you could, say like, here's my perspective. 00:04:23.058 --> 00:04:25.968 This is what ServiceNow can do, and it's practical. 00:04:26.015 --> 00:04:27.305 let's see what can happen. 00:04:27.580 --> 00:04:28.720 CJ: Yeah, exactly. 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:32.450 And like you said, two, versions later, you've got ideation, right, 00:04:32.450 --> 00:04:35.780 which isn't very dissimilar from the concept that you were describing. 00:04:36.080 --> 00:04:39.007 So, fortune and glory and influence, 00:04:39.532 --> 00:04:40.042 Duke: Yep. 00:04:40.085 --> 00:04:41.405 there's definitely that part too. 00:04:41.435 --> 00:04:44.732 Like it feels like sometimes my conversations carry more weight 00:04:44.732 --> 00:04:46.575 when, my hackathon wins come up. 00:04:46.665 --> 00:04:48.915 I, it frequently comes up on my interviews, like, tell 00:04:48.915 --> 00:04:49.785 us about the hackathons. 00:04:49.785 --> 00:04:50.055 Right? 00:04:50.055 --> 00:04:52.935 Like four of the, I don't wanna be like a big prideful person about 00:04:52.935 --> 00:04:58.125 it, but people do ask me about it on interviews and not as a test, but as a 00:04:58.148 --> 00:04:59.938 tell us how we can use you kind of way. 00:05:01.103 --> 00:05:03.443 CJ: You know, I got a, one of my, , favorite rappers has a line. 00:05:03.443 --> 00:05:05.393 He says, I didn't get a thing when I was humble. 00:05:05.798 --> 00:05:07.770 So, for me, like boast all you want. 00:05:07.770 --> 00:05:09.000 Dan, you, you accomplished this. 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:10.980 You, you did win four hackathons. 00:05:10.980 --> 00:05:11.160 Right? 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:13.140 Like, so don't talk about this prideful crap. 00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:14.010 We leave that stuff in the 00:05:14.010 --> 00:05:18.120 Duke: Well, I, I'm very proud of what I did, and I'm, I got extra 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:21.390 like, warm fuzzies that three outta the four of them were my idea. 00:05:21.390 --> 00:05:22.437 But, I also, 00:05:22.557 --> 00:05:23.217 CJ: I'm talking about 00:05:23.277 --> 00:05:25.137 Duke: what I mean, I, I, it wasn't, it wasn't like it 00:05:25.137 --> 00:05:26.727 was me sitting there, right. 00:05:26.727 --> 00:05:32.487 It wasn't like it was me, like Joel Olives, James Neal, you know, um, you 00:05:32.577 --> 00:05:32.847 CJ: Yeah. 00:05:32.847 --> 00:05:33.957 Like all star cast. 00:05:34.017 --> 00:05:34.137 Uh, 00:05:34.197 --> 00:05:35.037 Duke: all star cast. 00:05:35.037 --> 00:05:35.247 Yeah. 00:05:35.247 --> 00:05:38.217 Like, so I, I guess that's a point we didn't even put in our notes here, but. 00:05:38.672 --> 00:05:39.782 come with rock stars 00:05:41.702 --> 00:05:43.442 CJ: Right, work with rock stars. 00:05:43.472 --> 00:05:45.442 Uh, but yeah, tying it together. 00:05:45.890 --> 00:05:49.933 Fortune, fame, influence are all things that you come out of this with. 00:05:49.933 --> 00:05:53.203 And those things follow you throughout your entire career, which is the part 00:05:53.203 --> 00:05:57.103 that I think, you know, was the subtext of what you were saying this entire time. 00:05:57.108 --> 00:05:59.737 But I think needs to be, called out specifically, especially 00:05:59.742 --> 00:06:02.317 for some of our new users, some of our new listeners, right? 00:06:02.647 --> 00:06:05.943 Um, some of these hackathons you won, what, 10 years ago 00:06:06.813 --> 00:06:07.023 Duke: Yeah. 00:06:07.023 --> 00:06:09.423 In 2020, uh, 2013 was my first one. 00:06:09.573 --> 00:06:09.603 Mm. 00:06:09.723 --> 00:06:10.023 CJ: Yeah. 00:06:10.023 --> 00:06:12.483 So, you know, you started winning hackathons 10 years ago, right? 00:06:12.483 --> 00:06:15.633 And you're still being asked about them now in 2023. 00:06:15.933 --> 00:06:18.843 So, you know, you, you make a name for yourself, right? 00:06:18.848 --> 00:06:20.403 Like you win a hackathon. 00:06:20.403 --> 00:06:22.653 I mean, maybe you don't even need to win plus some runner up. 00:06:22.653 --> 00:06:24.303 It's probably good too, right? 00:06:24.303 --> 00:06:27.933 You, you take that with you, your entire ServiceNow career and it 00:06:27.933 --> 00:06:29.733 will unlock some doors for you, 00:06:30.223 --> 00:06:32.853 Duke: We're always talking about build, build, build for practice. 00:06:32.858 --> 00:06:33.163 Right? 00:06:33.313 --> 00:06:33.733 CJ: right? 00:06:34.183 --> 00:06:36.733 Duke: And you're gonna tell the build stories anyway. 00:06:36.998 --> 00:06:41.018 So how much hotter is it gonna be when you say, I built this at a hackathon and I won 00:06:41.603 --> 00:06:42.173 CJ: Yeah, right. 00:06:42.278 --> 00:06:46.008 Duke: You know, , I think we scheduled this for the end, but I think it comes 00:06:46.008 --> 00:06:51.165 up better now, is that it also sharpens your skill and it sharpen in my mind, 00:06:51.165 --> 00:06:52.935 it sharpens two skills in particular. 00:06:53.065 --> 00:06:56.595 Number one, your technical skills, because it sometimes helps to 00:06:56.595 --> 00:06:58.035 just look at things differently. 00:06:58.383 --> 00:06:58.803 CJ: agreed. 00:06:59.133 --> 00:07:01.713 Duke: you're in a hackathon, you're, you're hacking, So there's 00:07:01.713 --> 00:07:05.283 some sense of going offroad and not necessarily obeying the rules. 00:07:05.573 --> 00:07:07.163 What can I exploit? 00:07:07.355 --> 00:07:11.417 And that just shows you a tool in a different shade, right? 00:07:11.527 --> 00:07:11.822 CJ: God. 00:07:11.927 --> 00:07:12.737 Duke: in a different color. 00:07:12.737 --> 00:07:16.037 You know, it's like, it's not supposed to do this, uh, but it can 00:07:16.802 --> 00:07:20.275 CJ: Exactly, exactly Like this module doesn't do this. 00:07:20.425 --> 00:07:24.505 Yeah, well it does do the thing we needed to do, so let's just bootstrap it. 00:07:24.805 --> 00:07:28.225 Duke: because it's like you're under a severe time constraint. 00:07:28.405 --> 00:07:29.875 A severe time constraint. 00:07:30.355 --> 00:07:34.735 And so the idea would be like in real life, when we have days to even think 00:07:34.735 --> 00:07:38.995 about this, before we put pen to paper, like I might build a proper way to 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:43.255 execute this, but inside it's just, I'm gonna build something that works. 00:07:43.555 --> 00:07:48.722 And that is, it builds pathways in your brain about how you wield your tools. 00:07:49.358 --> 00:07:52.988 Just, I mean, just, just go on a YouTube and look at like carpentry 00:07:52.988 --> 00:07:54.758 hacks, leather working hacks. 00:07:54.758 --> 00:07:56.288 I'm big on leather working, so I'm just like always 00:07:56.293 --> 00:07:57.398 watching leather working hacks. 00:07:57.398 --> 00:08:01.418 It is just like all these dudes have these weird, like nobody else has 00:08:01.798 --> 00:08:03.098 considered them, but they work better 00:08:04.338 --> 00:08:04.898 CJ: right. 00:08:05.242 --> 00:08:09.162 Duke: so definitely, definitely sharpens some technical edges. 00:08:10.362 --> 00:08:14.202 CJ: Yeah, I mean you, so it's about career growth, right? 00:08:14.232 --> 00:08:17.733 Um, you know, and I touched on this a little bit too, but It gives you that 00:08:17.733 --> 00:08:21.700 ability to step outside your comfort zone and step outside your skillset, 00:08:21.700 --> 00:08:23.590 comfort zone especially, right? 00:08:23.590 --> 00:08:26.800 Like you might go into there and we already got three rockstar developers and 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:30.550 maybe developing as your is your jam, but we don't necessarily need that person. 00:08:30.550 --> 00:08:35.590 What we need is somebody to be the pitch guy or what we need is somebody right 00:08:35.590 --> 00:08:37.750 to help build that PowerPoint, right? 00:08:37.750 --> 00:08:38.920 Or you know what I mean? 00:08:39.040 --> 00:08:39.070 Or 00:08:39.220 --> 00:08:42.100 Duke: No, I totally, let me tell you how much I know what you mean. 00:08:42.100 --> 00:08:42.850 Cuz that was me. 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:49.540 the, like everybody sleeps on the pitch person. 00:08:49.570 --> 00:08:53.590 Like literally for, most of the hackathons I was on, from a technical 00:08:53.590 --> 00:08:55.300 perspective, I was extra hands. 00:08:56.418 --> 00:08:57.018 James Neal. 00:08:57.018 --> 00:09:00.488 Be like, I'm trying to build an integration into this exterior system. 00:09:00.488 --> 00:09:04.088 We were trying to do a, a social media app one year, and James is like, 00:09:04.088 --> 00:09:05.438 I'm building a Twitter integration. 00:09:05.468 --> 00:09:07.268 Like what I need is something else. 00:09:07.268 --> 00:09:11.308 And so I would build the tiny stuff that was easy, right? 00:09:11.313 --> 00:09:12.838 So I would build all the easy stuff. 00:09:12.878 --> 00:09:16.155 while, while I thought on the, pitch. 00:09:16.575 --> 00:09:20.238 One other hackathon, I did with, Travis Tolson and Nathan Berth. 00:09:20.808 --> 00:09:23.955 We didn't win this one, but it was like they literally did all the build. 00:09:24.135 --> 00:09:28.405 And all I did was just refine and refine the pitch for like the whole hackathon. 00:09:28.795 --> 00:09:32.095 And so if you don't think, if you're not technical enough, but you got 00:09:32.095 --> 00:09:36.842 good talk, it's, you're still critical to the team because the pitch is 00:09:36.842 --> 00:09:38.552 often what convinces people to. 00:09:39.307 --> 00:09:41.047 CJ: and I wanna say two things to that, right? 00:09:41.047 --> 00:09:46.375 Like one thing is, You weren't always the pitch guy, internally, right? 00:09:46.375 --> 00:09:50.555 Like as a, you know, your skillset, you weren't always the guy who was comfortable 00:09:50.555 --> 00:09:53.825 getting up and speaking in front of, tens or hundreds of people, right? 00:09:54.112 --> 00:09:55.102 Duke: absolutely not. 00:09:55.102 --> 00:09:56.362 You're you're absolutely right. 00:09:56.945 --> 00:09:59.915 11 was my first knowledge, and I was like, oh, someday I hope, 00:09:59.975 --> 00:10:03.998 I hope I can be strong enough, convincing enough, confident enough 00:10:03.998 --> 00:10:06.128 to like host a session at Knowledge. 00:10:06.365 --> 00:10:06.925 CJ: Right. 00:10:07.285 --> 00:10:09.982 Duke: like, knowledge 12, I did a very small one. 00:10:09.987 --> 00:10:12.682 And then knowledge 13, I did a, a big one. 00:10:12.682 --> 00:10:13.162 A huge one. 00:10:13.162 --> 00:10:14.182 It was standing room only. 00:10:14.402 --> 00:10:16.292 was just like scared outta my wits. 00:10:16.382 --> 00:10:17.502 CJ: Yeah, I was at that one. 00:10:17.702 --> 00:10:21.903 Duke: uh, . But then At Knowledge 13, we did the hackathon and man, 00:10:21.903 --> 00:10:24.917 one of my friends at ServiceNow, we were like at that knowledge, the 00:10:24.917 --> 00:10:28.397 hackathon contestants were pitching in the general kind of symposium area. 00:10:28.577 --> 00:10:28.847 Era. 00:10:28.852 --> 00:10:31.487 So people would come by and like, listen to your pitch and then you'd 00:10:31.487 --> 00:10:32.987 text in your vote or whatever. 00:10:33.202 --> 00:10:33.692 CJ: Yeah. 00:10:34.127 --> 00:10:37.445 Duke: Anyways, It was one guy on my team and me doing 00:10:37.445 --> 00:10:39.425 pitches to, people at knowledge. 00:10:39.425 --> 00:10:42.125 And then one of my friends from ServiceNow walks up to me and says, 00:10:42.265 --> 00:10:54.175 uh, Frank Sluman is gonna be here in two minutes, and what am I gonna do? 00:10:54.985 --> 00:10:55.795 So I pitched 00:10:55.795 --> 00:10:56.005 CJ: it. 00:10:56.005 --> 00:10:56.995 This is the big time, 00:10:57.325 --> 00:10:57.715 Duke: Yeah. 00:10:58.555 --> 00:10:58.855 And I'm. 00:10:59.590 --> 00:11:00.640 Frank Sluman is there. 00:11:00.640 --> 00:11:02.890 He is kind of like he's sort of interested, right? 00:11:03.520 --> 00:11:08.508 And he's standing side onto me and he's leaning in with his ear and I 00:11:08.513 --> 00:11:14.162 said, Frank, do you know what's And he like, he was standing still, but 00:11:14.162 --> 00:11:15.542 you could tell he was standing stiller. 00:11:16.982 --> 00:11:21.112 I'm like, I think it's bullshit that at your organization there's probably 00:11:21.117 --> 00:11:24.958 like hundreds of projects that are worth doing that aren't getting 00:11:25.018 --> 00:11:28.918 off the table because there isn't a proper ideation engine where you are. 00:11:28.918 --> 00:11:32.848 And he just, side onto me and he just turns straight onto me, crosses his 00:11:32.848 --> 00:11:36.358 arms, now I got your full attention. 00:11:36.363 --> 00:11:40.132 Now I see And so yeah, I, pitched to Frank Sluman. 00:11:40.192 --> 00:11:41.032 It was awesome. 00:11:41.212 --> 00:11:42.382 gave my hand a really big. 00:11:43.167 --> 00:11:44.727 walking away and I'm like, Hey Frank. 00:11:45.147 --> 00:11:48.687 And he turns around and I like tell him the number he's supposed to dial , like 00:11:48.687 --> 00:11:54.120 dial that number But then after that, that was the emergence of the Duke. 00:11:54.125 --> 00:11:56.970 I think the Duke came immediately after that. 00:11:56.970 --> 00:11:57.750 And I'm like, it's okay. 00:11:57.750 --> 00:12:00.060 I can like pitch to Frank's Lutman on two minutes notice. 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:00.570 That's fine. 00:12:01.110 --> 00:12:02.040 I'll be f Everything's fine. 00:12:02.040 --> 00:12:02.490 I'll be fine. 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:08.580 CJ: Skill growth in the moment, right, in the moment. 00:12:08.800 --> 00:12:09.790 that's just an amazing story. 00:12:09.790 --> 00:12:12.843 I if you ever thought like, I can't do this, like that story right 00:12:12.843 --> 00:12:15.657 there, should, just convince anyone that you should at least try it. 00:12:16.257 --> 00:12:17.307 Duke: I was so lucky though, right? 00:12:17.307 --> 00:12:18.777 Cause I didn't, I didn't have a choice. 00:12:18.957 --> 00:12:19.287 Right. 00:12:19.287 --> 00:12:21.447 If I had time to decide, I might have said, I'm not ready. 00:12:22.197 --> 00:12:23.277 CJ: that's what hackathons do. 00:12:23.457 --> 00:12:24.177 They take away your 00:12:24.207 --> 00:12:24.837 Duke: no, you're ready. 00:12:24.897 --> 00:12:25.587 No, you're doing it 00:12:27.567 --> 00:12:30.323 CJ: they put you in this, tiny compressed window of time. 00:12:30.323 --> 00:12:30.683 Right. 00:12:30.953 --> 00:12:32.933 And add in all of this pressure. 00:12:32.983 --> 00:12:34.903 And then they create diamonds, you know? 00:12:34.908 --> 00:12:36.913 And so yeah, don't be intimidated 00:12:37.963 --> 00:12:38.203 Duke: Yeah. 00:12:38.203 --> 00:12:38.623 Well, okay. 00:12:38.623 --> 00:12:41.803 That just takes us right into the, uh, into the strategies. 00:12:42.403 --> 00:12:42.883 CJ: right? 00:12:43.003 --> 00:12:43.213 Yeah, 00:12:43.213 --> 00:12:44.743 Duke: tell us more about, don't be intimidated. 00:12:45.208 --> 00:12:49.232 CJ: the second Part of that I think also, um, works really well here is that you 00:12:49.232 --> 00:12:53.942 came away from that experience with having learned more tech stuff, more developer 00:12:53.942 --> 00:12:58.232 stuff from the rockstar developers that you had on your team, just by osmosis. 00:12:58.232 --> 00:12:58.442 Right? 00:12:58.447 --> 00:13:00.902 Just by being around, hearing them talk. 00:13:01.077 --> 00:13:01.977 Type in the code. 00:13:01.977 --> 00:13:03.657 There were no kind of, oh, we are stuck. 00:13:03.657 --> 00:13:04.647 Kind of conversations. 00:13:04.647 --> 00:13:05.427 How do we do this? 00:13:05.547 --> 00:13:08.637 Offering input, input, going through that process, right? 00:13:08.847 --> 00:13:13.107 Like again, don't be intimidated there either to, even though like 00:13:13.437 --> 00:13:17.247 development or rockstar development might not be your jam, don't be 00:13:17.247 --> 00:13:19.737 intimidated to offer up something, right? 00:13:19.737 --> 00:13:19.887 Because. 00:13:20.132 --> 00:13:21.538 Duke: it's, it's so true. 00:13:21.598 --> 00:13:23.898 At the time, I did my first hackathon. 00:13:24.808 --> 00:13:27.448 We joke all the time, like, I'm not a, real developer, right? 00:13:28.588 --> 00:13:30.838 CJ: You say that all the time, but I mean 10 years later, 00:13:30.928 --> 00:13:35.578 Duke: if it's true, if it's true now, it was 10 times as true 10 years ago. 00:13:36.088 --> 00:13:38.175 And you know, I, I would develop simple stuff. 00:13:38.235 --> 00:13:44.715 And so I wasn't a rockstar coder for the hackathon, but I went in any way. 00:13:44.745 --> 00:13:45.225 Why? 00:13:45.255 --> 00:13:46.185 Because I had an idea. 00:13:46.185 --> 00:13:47.115 I couldn't get outta my head. 00:13:47.265 --> 00:13:47.655 Why? 00:13:47.655 --> 00:13:49.515 Because I knew I could deliver the pitch really. 00:13:50.037 --> 00:13:51.507 And other people knew that about me too. 00:13:51.507 --> 00:13:54.417 So no matter what your skill level is, I don't want to hear, I don't 00:13:54.417 --> 00:13:58.107 wanna hear nothing about, oh, I'm not really a good developer. 00:13:58.107 --> 00:13:59.367 Like, who cares? 00:13:59.397 --> 00:14:02.397 There's other people who are, you know, maybe not even as good as you 00:14:02.397 --> 00:14:04.377 and they're like neck deep in it. 00:14:04.887 --> 00:14:05.637 It doesn't matter. 00:14:05.642 --> 00:14:09.414 Don't be intimidated, everybody can contribute to the team and, and like 00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:14.567 I said, even if you're just extra hands, it's still absolutely necess. 00:14:14.947 --> 00:14:17.783 CJ: Yeah, and you never know what talent you might have hidden that 00:14:17.783 --> 00:14:19.973 you unlock just by necessity. 00:14:20.378 --> 00:14:22.418 Duke: that just by necessity, you're absolutely right. 00:14:22.853 --> 00:14:23.093 CJ: Yeah. 00:14:23.273 --> 00:14:24.563 that touches on our next one, right? 00:14:24.563 --> 00:14:28.623 Which is like, it takes all types, we need developers as a, on a hackathon. 00:14:28.623 --> 00:14:30.063 We also need pitch folks, right? 00:14:30.063 --> 00:14:32.253 We also need somebody making that deck, right? 00:14:32.253 --> 00:14:34.713 We also need somebody, you know, coming up with the idea. 00:14:35.618 --> 00:14:35.673 , right. 00:14:35.673 --> 00:14:38.823 We need, we need someone who can do the testing, right. 00:14:39.003 --> 00:14:42.363 You know, someone who has that different viewpoint of what's going on and 00:14:42.363 --> 00:14:44.013 can catch, like, usability issues. 00:14:44.193 --> 00:14:48.103 We need all types of skill sets when you're talking about a hackathon, 00:14:48.618 --> 00:14:52.018 Duke: You can't sleep on the idea that somebody has to have the master vision. 00:14:52.138 --> 00:14:54.808 If everybody thinks they have the vision, they're gonna develop, 00:14:54.808 --> 00:14:55.728 thinking they're in the same. 00:14:55.908 --> 00:14:59.178 Direction, but then they're gonna have the f to mix together 00:14:59.178 --> 00:15:00.408 a whole hodgepodge at the end. 00:15:00.728 --> 00:15:05.608 there's one, hackathon we went to, where we had this idea, and at the very early 00:15:05.608 --> 00:15:08.568 keynote, they had one of their high production videos about what people are 00:15:08.568 --> 00:15:15.288 doing with ServiceNow and god damn it, the very first one, was our hackathon idea 00:15:16.428 --> 00:15:18.858 and we're like, shoot, we can't do that. 00:15:19.488 --> 00:15:20.178 So 00:15:20.718 --> 00:15:22.068 CJ: Oh man, that's gotta suck. 00:15:22.128 --> 00:15:24.318 Duke: yeah, so I was friends with one of the social media people 00:15:24.318 --> 00:15:27.018 at ServiceNow and she was like, well, I'll tell you an app I'd. 00:15:27.587 --> 00:15:31.337 And so we decided to do this app that would help her, 00:15:31.427 --> 00:15:33.047 but she wasn't on the team. 00:15:33.377 --> 00:15:35.267 And so we don't really know, you know what I mean? 00:15:35.267 --> 00:15:37.307 Like when you're in the weeds, it's like, how should it work again? 00:15:37.307 --> 00:15:42.387 So we're like constantly texting her and she was basically like our secret 00:15:42.387 --> 00:15:47.157 team member, but only because she had the idea of how the app would work, 00:15:47.527 --> 00:15:48.087 CJ: Right. 00:15:48.157 --> 00:15:50.947 Duke: And in other, like in other hackathons, I was that person I was. 00:15:51.598 --> 00:15:54.418 if I'm only just there to answer questions to the devil, like exactly 00:15:54.418 --> 00:15:55.708 how is this supposed to work again? 00:15:55.978 --> 00:16:00.692 Like somebody's gotta be that central locus of what this thing is going to be. 00:16:01.412 --> 00:16:03.692 CJ: Yeah, like, I mean, when you think about Google, right? 00:16:03.692 --> 00:16:06.722 Like somebody had to have the idea just. 00:16:07.937 --> 00:16:10.547 Text box, Like that's the vision. 00:16:10.697 --> 00:16:11.897 No extra. 00:16:11.957 --> 00:16:14.567 No, just a text box with a button. 00:16:14.717 --> 00:16:15.887 That's all we're doing. 00:16:16.007 --> 00:16:22.687 But what about no you can't under underestimate those things. 00:16:22.687 --> 00:16:25.067 You can't undervalue them, it takes all types. 00:16:25.067 --> 00:16:27.457 I mean, we, we often think about, the code, like 00:16:27.457 --> 00:16:28.777 especially in technology, right? 00:16:28.777 --> 00:16:31.747 Like we often put a whole lot of value on the coder types 00:16:31.747 --> 00:16:33.067 and as well, we should, right? 00:16:33.072 --> 00:16:36.337 It is a definite, it is a skill that not everyone has, but there are other 00:16:36.337 --> 00:16:40.583 skills that not everyone has too, There are so many folks who, would 00:16:40.583 --> 00:16:42.283 not be comfortable doing the pitch. 00:16:42.575 --> 00:16:43.235 Duke: I hear you. 00:16:43.392 --> 00:16:46.302 CJ: and you know, and would not, and could not come up with the idea. 00:16:46.602 --> 00:16:46.812 Right. 00:16:46.812 --> 00:16:50.202 So let's just just understand that, that whole diversity of skill type 00:16:50.207 --> 00:16:52.462 thing is a necessity for successful 00:16:52.612 --> 00:16:52.822 Duke: Yeah. 00:16:52.822 --> 00:16:54.562 , the team has to be diverse, skilled. 00:16:55.042 --> 00:16:55.792 Absolutely. 00:16:56.242 --> 00:16:57.712 Um, okay. 00:16:57.712 --> 00:17:01.042 So if you are that person, if you've got a, an idea in your head and you've 00:17:01.042 --> 00:17:05.798 got network of developers you can cue on, then the next tip is start early. 00:17:05.798 --> 00:17:06.368 Oh my God. 00:17:06.368 --> 00:17:06.968 Start early. 00:17:08.888 --> 00:17:09.608 CJ: Like now 00:17:10.028 --> 00:17:14.378 Duke: Yeah, like every team that I've seen WIN has had plans 00:17:14.378 --> 00:17:16.445 for it like a while in advance. 00:17:16.505 --> 00:17:18.155 And I'm not saying they built it already. 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:20.448 Some teams have, I find that's kind of cheap, but have at 00:17:20.448 --> 00:17:22.458 least had the idea really early 00:17:23.058 --> 00:17:23.418 CJ: Yeah. 00:17:23.418 --> 00:17:26.028 Duke: so that they get there and the teams ready. 00:17:26.028 --> 00:17:28.938 You at least have a clear vision of the app and then you just start working. 00:17:29.088 --> 00:17:30.888 Maybe you've talked about components you're gonna use, 00:17:30.893 --> 00:17:32.805 but that is, a life save. 00:17:33.202 --> 00:17:33.892 CJ: Absolutely. 00:17:33.952 --> 00:17:35.152 I, I totally agree with you, right? 00:17:35.172 --> 00:17:37.212 you want to go into it with like, at least some kind of 00:17:37.212 --> 00:17:38.322 idea of what you're going to do. 00:17:38.622 --> 00:17:41.832 That doesn't mean you, you have to, but I think if you want to 00:17:41.832 --> 00:17:43.685 have the most chance of success, 00:17:43.833 --> 00:17:46.077 Duke: and literally like, please don't be cheap. 00:17:46.107 --> 00:17:47.667 Like there's one team one year where they. 00:17:48.148 --> 00:17:52.845 They did it in c m s and it was hardcore graphic designs and stuff. 00:17:52.845 --> 00:17:56.685 They clearly had all these assets built before they came to the session. 00:17:56.685 --> 00:17:58.515 And it was just like, that's so cheap. 00:17:58.515 --> 00:18:03.012 Like they had hours and hours and hours of advanced work before anybody else, 00:18:03.112 --> 00:18:04.582 don't be that, don't be that team. 00:18:04.642 --> 00:18:04.882 Like 00:18:04.987 --> 00:18:05.707 CJ: Yeah, exactly. 00:18:05.737 --> 00:18:07.747 Like everyone should keep to the spirit of the hackathon. 00:18:07.747 --> 00:18:07.987 Right? 00:18:07.987 --> 00:18:11.167 I think it's fine to have a, you have your team picked out. 00:18:11.167 --> 00:18:14.167 I think it's fine to, you know, toss around some ideas on like what you're 00:18:14.167 --> 00:18:18.179 gonna build, But you shouldn't come with pre-built assets, you know, in my opinion. 00:18:18.179 --> 00:18:21.445 Like, I don't know what's allowed at the rule level, but for me it 00:18:21.450 --> 00:18:22.675 feels like you said, feels cheap. 00:18:23.065 --> 00:18:23.725 Duke: totally cheap. 00:18:24.370 --> 00:18:27.450 CJ: the, the next one, right, and I think this is, the actual 00:18:27.450 --> 00:18:29.160 spirit of a hackathon, right? 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:30.810 It just has to work. 00:18:31.590 --> 00:18:33.630 You know, it doesn't have to be amazing. 00:18:33.630 --> 00:18:35.220 It doesn't have to be great. 00:18:35.760 --> 00:18:38.220 You just gotta get through the happy path, man. 00:18:39.255 --> 00:18:39.675 Duke: Yep. 00:18:40.305 --> 00:18:41.385 It just has to work. 00:18:41.385 --> 00:18:46.477 So mentioned it before, like off-roading, ignoring the rules a bit oh, you shouldn't 00:18:46.477 --> 00:18:48.037 put glide records in client scripts. 00:18:48.937 --> 00:18:49.477 Okay? 00:18:49.477 --> 00:18:51.817 Like , try and stop me. 00:18:52.177 --> 00:18:56.239 Uh, if, if, uh, putting a glide record into a client script shaves 00:18:56.239 --> 00:18:58.009 an hour off your time, you'd do it 00:18:58.464 --> 00:18:59.314 CJ: Absolutely. 00:18:59.939 --> 00:19:02.749 Duke: and nobody during the demo is detecting. 00:19:02.777 --> 00:19:04.877 potential, performance concerns. 00:19:05.087 --> 00:19:05.867 Who cares? 00:19:08.512 --> 00:19:12.863 this is, duct tape, thumb tack, paper mache, 00:19:13.693 --> 00:19:15.053 CJ: Right, right. 00:19:15.058 --> 00:19:17.688 Duke: really, really, really highly polished paint. 00:19:17.955 --> 00:19:19.095 this is what we're talking about. 00:19:19.275 --> 00:19:22.605 CJ: And you know what, what I'll say here to you is like, to translate this, 00:19:22.665 --> 00:19:29.865 um, back to, um, to corporate world too, I think sometimes it just has to work, 00:19:29.985 --> 00:19:34.431 works really well in your day job, and maybe it doesn't end up and it probably 00:19:34.431 --> 00:19:37.731 shouldn't end up in, in production, But sometimes you got that stakeholder who 00:19:37.736 --> 00:19:40.851 doesn't see the vision a mockup, right? 00:19:40.851 --> 00:19:45.231 That just works to show the value of what you're proposing that you do. 00:19:45.231 --> 00:19:46.431 Hot hackathon style. 00:19:46.941 --> 00:19:50.896 It's probably super valuable to convey, the vision of something that you're 00:19:50.896 --> 00:19:52.533 pitching, So that's another skill. 00:19:52.533 --> 00:19:55.563 Like to tie this back to one of the earlier, part of the conversation, right? 00:19:55.563 --> 00:19:59.433 That's another skill that you end up building here by going through a, um, a 00:19:59.433 --> 00:20:04.173 hackathon, that ability to build something on a spot, make it work, and then use 00:20:04.178 --> 00:20:06.183 that to convince others that it's a good. 00:20:06.558 --> 00:20:11.567 Duke: it's a model and it's just doing it the proper way takes more effort, right? 00:20:11.627 --> 00:20:13.067 Like we see this day to day too. 00:20:13.067 --> 00:20:15.347 And I think the hackathon makes you appreciate it more. 00:20:15.377 --> 00:20:16.307 It's like, I can do it. 00:20:17.057 --> 00:20:20.417 A way I know that works or I can do it the proper, methodical way, 00:20:20.417 --> 00:20:23.327 but the proper, methodical way is always the most time consuming 00:20:23.627 --> 00:20:24.267 CJ: Absolut. 00:20:24.727 --> 00:20:28.540 Duke: and the hackathon is not the place to understand about time consuming. 00:20:28.545 --> 00:20:31.330 So it can also show you pitfalls where you're not thinking deep 00:20:31.335 --> 00:20:32.890 enough in your real world life. 00:20:33.080 --> 00:20:34.353 CJ: absolutely love it 00:20:34.530 --> 00:20:37.530 Duke: But I, I feel like sometimes if you feel like, oh, there's a 50 00:20:37.530 --> 00:20:39.030 50 chance that this thing just poops. 00:20:39.860 --> 00:20:41.175 , like while we're demonstrating it. 00:20:41.805 --> 00:20:44.095 , you're, you're probably in the right spot. 00:20:46.260 --> 00:20:48.390 CJ: It means you were just ambitious enough. 00:20:48.575 --> 00:20:49.065 Duke: Yeah. 00:20:49.065 --> 00:20:49.505 Yeah. 00:20:51.330 --> 00:20:51.720 CJ: Yeah. 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.787 I mean, so that's a good point to touch on too, if what you built, if you don't feel 00:20:55.787 --> 00:20:59.747 like there's a chance of it failing, you probably weren't ambitious enough with it. 00:21:00.122 --> 00:21:00.452 Duke: Yeah. 00:21:00.882 --> 00:21:03.282 I'm trying to think of a specific example where, where that happened. 00:21:03.432 --> 00:21:04.232 Where're just like, oh, this. 00:21:04.977 --> 00:21:07.287 We didn't quite finish this, so don't demo that part, 00:21:07.802 --> 00:21:08.362 CJ: Right. 00:21:08.787 --> 00:21:12.590 Duke: but that actually bleeds into another, point is that I think 00:21:12.595 --> 00:21:16.550 you're gonna have more ideas, a lot more ideas going in about how 00:21:16.555 --> 00:21:18.710 this works than you will execute on 00:21:19.128 --> 00:21:19.618 CJ: Okay. 00:21:19.700 --> 00:21:23.640 Duke: our ideation portal, , we had like a seven person team, so it was nothing 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:25.290 for us to like dedicate this labor. 00:21:25.290 --> 00:21:29.267 But , I would say half the labor we dedicated didn't even make the demo cuz 00:21:29.267 --> 00:21:31.510 we had stuff like social amplification. 00:21:32.020 --> 00:21:36.760 So it was like you have five projects and there was a social feed and 00:21:36.760 --> 00:21:40.350 people could like or comment and then the likings would rank the 00:21:40.350 --> 00:21:42.120 projects on the ideation portal. 00:21:42.390 --> 00:21:46.320 the only thing we really had time to pitch anyway was this idea that you 00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:49.380 could pick a project and you could dedicate resources, or you could 00:21:49.380 --> 00:21:51.483 dedicate, money or you could dedicate. 00:21:52.353 --> 00:21:56.158 , those are the three things we could demo, but we had like social ranking 00:21:56.368 --> 00:22:00.448 and we had, reward systems so that you could promise something back to the 00:22:00.448 --> 00:22:03.148 people who are dedicating stuff to you, and it's just like, man, we didn't even 00:22:03.148 --> 00:22:10.882 have time to pitch that you know, And so you have to be able to recognize 00:22:10.912 --> 00:22:14.392 and commit to slaying the features. 00:22:14.812 --> 00:22:18.398 That you fell in love with because it's gonna get to a point you, you 00:22:18.398 --> 00:22:20.048 will not be able to pitch this. 00:22:20.258 --> 00:22:21.098 You won't have the time. 00:22:21.242 --> 00:22:24.452 and the earlier you can do that, the better because it allows you to focus 00:22:24.532 --> 00:22:26.032 , what development effort that you have. 00:22:26.873 --> 00:22:27.983 CJ: Yeah, focus, right? 00:22:27.983 --> 00:22:30.143 Like it's that whole lean startup pitch, right? 00:22:30.143 --> 00:22:34.193 Where you want to find product market fit as quickly as possible, right? 00:22:34.193 --> 00:22:36.863 And you want to do that , with the least amount of, , labor 00:22:36.868 --> 00:22:38.693 expenditure possible too, right? 00:22:38.873 --> 00:22:42.023 So like, I want to get this in front of the people who are gonna make 00:22:42.023 --> 00:22:44.313 the decision as quickly as possible. 00:22:45.588 --> 00:22:48.648 A framework having been built as quickly as possible too. 00:22:48.887 --> 00:22:52.602 and that goes to, like you said, slaying those features that you might love, 00:22:52.932 --> 00:22:56.892 but ultimately are superfluous to the message that you're trying to present. 00:22:57.152 --> 00:22:59.402 Duke: That's, it's absolutely right and it's gonna happen. 00:22:59.402 --> 00:23:00.152 I promise you. 00:23:00.152 --> 00:23:00.902 I promise you. 00:23:00.902 --> 00:23:01.892 I promise you it's gonna. 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:05.030 CJ: But those are what V two and V3 and V4 are for. 00:23:05.577 --> 00:23:08.602 and, and, and to me, there's no, rule that the hackathon has to 00:23:08.602 --> 00:23:10.485 stop at the end of the competition. 00:23:10.883 --> 00:23:13.758 I mean, a lot of these internal hackathons that happen in companies, 00:23:13.758 --> 00:23:16.148 and I don't know if they still do, I know there was a movement a while 00:23:16.148 --> 00:23:18.878 ago where a lot of companies were doing like internal hackathons. 00:23:18.883 --> 00:23:22.868 I don't know how prevalent it still is, but, the whole impetus behind the 00:23:22.873 --> 00:23:27.158 movement, was to get these ideas out there and get some of these things built, 00:23:27.163 --> 00:23:28.153 Duke: Yeah, get a model. 00:23:28.448 --> 00:23:32.438 CJ: yeah, get a model, right, and then transition it to the next stage and see 00:23:32.438 --> 00:23:34.332 whether or not, it can be something. 00:23:34.743 --> 00:23:36.783 Duke: I'll tell you a story about the pick features wisely. 00:23:36.887 --> 00:23:40.757 one of the hackathons I won, we called it Apocalypse Now, and it was a 00:23:40.762 --> 00:23:43.577 disaster response workflow initiator. 00:23:44.087 --> 00:23:44.507 CJ: Okay. 00:23:44.687 --> 00:23:48.243 Duke: So basically like you had all these disaster response plans in 00:23:48.243 --> 00:23:52.053 knowledge articles, and the knowledge articles would have basically templated 00:23:52.058 --> 00:23:54.133 tasks Say it was like a building fire. 00:23:54.133 --> 00:23:58.093 Like do a headcount, make sure everybody gets their payroll up to that date. 00:23:58.320 --> 00:24:01.405 make sure we get our backups restored to a, backup site or whatever. 00:24:01.405 --> 00:24:05.477 All the, all the stuff and A location manager could subscribe 00:24:05.477 --> 00:24:09.947 to each of the event types, I want this fire plan cuz we're in a high 00:24:09.947 --> 00:24:13.277 rise, or, I want this earthquake plan because we live in California 00:24:13.622 --> 00:24:14.182 CJ: Right 00:24:14.215 --> 00:24:15.715 Duke: And then we thought, Hey, you know what would be cool is 00:24:15.715 --> 00:24:18.655 if we just do an integration with the US Geological Service. 00:24:19.825 --> 00:24:20.315 CJ: Yeah. 00:24:20.315 --> 00:24:21.055 No, I mean, why not 00:24:21.145 --> 00:24:22.195 Duke: Yeah, why not? 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:25.148 And so we did it and then it was, one of those government, they were 00:24:25.148 --> 00:24:27.158 having a, a stalemate over the budget. 00:24:27.158 --> 00:24:30.578 And so basically, U S G S took that service offline that night. 00:24:30.773 --> 00:24:31.493 CJ: Oh no. 00:24:32.693 --> 00:24:33.643 Oh, no. 00:24:33.898 --> 00:24:36.628 Duke: But it was kind of a cheat code for the pitch because I was like, and we 00:24:36.628 --> 00:24:38.728 had this prep to show you, but the feed. 00:24:39.500 --> 00:24:39.680 CJ: Yeah. 00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:39.950 No. 00:24:39.950 --> 00:24:43.760 Right, because then like boom, we had a disaster recovery service pitch 00:24:43.760 --> 00:24:45.650 for you, but then a disaster happened 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:46.340 Duke: that's right. 00:24:46.345 --> 00:24:47.390 We wanted to show live. 00:24:47.390 --> 00:24:49.730 We wanted to like just tune down the dial, like let us know 00:24:49.730 --> 00:24:51.710 if anything like 3.2 happens. 00:24:52.040 --> 00:24:52.490 Right. 00:24:52.490 --> 00:24:55.455 And so basically, that happens every five minutes in California. 00:24:55.455 --> 00:24:57.495 So we just wait and then we get an alert and it would 00:24:57.495 --> 00:24:58.965 launch out the earthquake plan. 00:24:59.018 --> 00:25:01.468 But, what we should have done was just cut that out. 00:25:01.558 --> 00:25:05.008 Like it took us so long to integrate it and it was just like we, I still 00:25:05.008 --> 00:25:08.402 hadn't had hit my stride yet on like why we were winning hackathons, 00:25:08.492 --> 00:25:11.822 but we should have just cut that out and just went with what we had. 00:25:11.822 --> 00:25:13.442 Cause we couldn't demonstrate it and we won. 00:25:13.948 --> 00:25:14.668 CJ: Yeah, exactly. 00:25:14.668 --> 00:25:18.593 And, and you could have always like had , a fixed script that you ran that simulated 00:25:18.813 --> 00:25:23.193 Duke: Yes, exactly, exactly it going, because that goes back to the past point. 00:25:23.313 --> 00:25:24.603 It just has to work. 00:25:24.843 --> 00:25:27.573 Like, let's make believe that the G US Geo Geological service 00:25:27.573 --> 00:25:28.773 send us this message, boo. 00:25:28.935 --> 00:25:30.100 run the background script, 00:25:30.610 --> 00:25:31.170 CJ: right. 00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:33.520 Duke: everybody's like, the other thing too is like 00:25:33.520 --> 00:25:35.470 everybody wants this to be cool. 00:25:35.540 --> 00:25:37.540 Everybody wants us to be cool 00:25:37.870 --> 00:25:38.950 CJ: It's the point, right? 00:25:39.055 --> 00:25:41.815 Duke: you just have some script saying, well, this is the event of them calling 00:25:41.815 --> 00:25:45.785 us, or some other system talking to us, they're gonna imagine it happening in real 00:25:45.785 --> 00:25:47.992 life, they'll fill in the blanks for you. 00:25:48.238 --> 00:25:48.928 CJ: Absolutely. 00:25:48.978 --> 00:25:50.298 That's the value of the pitch. 00:25:50.298 --> 00:25:52.633 That's the value of all of that shell work too. 00:25:52.633 --> 00:25:53.233 Sometimes. 00:25:53.233 --> 00:25:55.303 That's not always just the development, right? 00:25:55.308 --> 00:25:57.103 Because they, if they wanna believe, right? 00:25:57.103 --> 00:25:57.253 Like. 00:25:57.433 --> 00:25:58.573 Duke: they wanna believe they do. 00:25:58.603 --> 00:25:58.993 Yep. 00:25:59.473 --> 00:26:00.853 Everybody's jazzed about it. 00:26:00.853 --> 00:26:01.813 It's like a big thing. 00:26:02.158 --> 00:26:03.418 CJ: it's like at the circus, right? 00:26:03.418 --> 00:26:06.388 Like you've got, the ringmaster comes out and they're doing whatever 00:26:06.388 --> 00:26:09.388 little thing that they're doing, and sometimes it's slight of hand, 00:26:09.598 --> 00:26:10.948 but you wanna believe, right? 00:26:10.948 --> 00:26:12.418 Because you're there to be entertained. 00:26:12.418 --> 00:26:14.278 And so you, so it works. 00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:15.040 Duke: That's right. 00:26:15.485 --> 00:26:18.172 CJ: So last point, duke, I'll, I'll intro this one and I'll let 00:26:18.172 --> 00:26:20.722 you roll with it because I I think you've got a lot to say on it. 00:26:20.872 --> 00:26:24.957 but, come with rock stars and, you know, when, when you think 00:26:24.957 --> 00:26:27.927 about, you know, hackathon and, and if you're really trying to win. 00:26:28.143 --> 00:26:33.693 showing up with folks that you trust, that you know their skillset, that you know how 00:26:33.693 --> 00:26:38.777 they work, that you already have a rapport with, and you know, are good at the thing. 00:26:38.777 --> 00:26:41.807 That's things that they do and the responsibilities that they'll have, 00:26:42.197 --> 00:26:43.757 I feel like can't be understated. 00:26:43.972 --> 00:26:46.612 Duke: That's it in a nutshell, really like, , we say it takes 00:26:46.612 --> 00:26:50.422 all types and it does, but one of those types is rockstar devs. 00:26:51.735 --> 00:26:53.985 because if you want to hack a component, 00:26:54.218 --> 00:26:54.708 CJ: Yeah. 00:26:54.838 --> 00:26:57.308 Duke: Like in my leather working videos, , there's this dude who takes 00:26:57.308 --> 00:27:00.702 alls , you know, the screwdrivers, but comes down to one single point and for 00:27:00.702 --> 00:27:03.582 something in leather working, he bends 'em, he bends 'em at like 45 degree 00:27:03.587 --> 00:27:07.662 angles so he can better hold down the leather when he is like applying glue. 00:27:08.217 --> 00:27:08.337 CJ: Oh, 00:27:08.352 --> 00:27:12.162 Duke: you would, so, But you need somebody who knows how that stuff works. 00:27:12.162 --> 00:27:15.282 To be able to say, well, if we just bend this tool at a 45 degree angle, 00:27:15.282 --> 00:27:18.882 we can get another, another effect out of it that we weren't previously. 00:27:19.212 --> 00:27:22.812 And I think rookies have a harder, cha harder, time of doing 00:27:22.817 --> 00:27:24.462 that then say a pro developer. 00:27:24.822 --> 00:27:26.742 So the pro developers are necessary. 00:27:26.742 --> 00:27:30.655 So if you're trying to assemble a hackathon team, make sure it's composed 00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:33.595 of somebody who's got hard dev chop. 00:27:33.992 --> 00:27:39.018 Maybe somebody who's got hard portal chops because visuals count and somebody who 00:27:39.018 --> 00:27:44.778 can pitch and somebody who has the locus of control for what the app is, right? 00:27:44.783 --> 00:27:49.098 Who's going to be the mind that decides how the app works? 00:27:49.248 --> 00:27:50.808 You have those four pieces. 00:27:51.318 --> 00:27:52.068 You're well on your way. 00:27:52.068 --> 00:27:53.508 They don't have to be four separate people. 00:27:53.538 --> 00:27:57.048 Like one person can occupy multiple of those, but those are 00:27:57.048 --> 00:27:58.218 the four components you need. 00:27:58.448 --> 00:28:00.132 But actually, I think, go ahead to Corey. 00:28:00.357 --> 00:28:06.263 CJ: no, I, so I was gonna say, do we still need a rockstar D now with low code 00:28:06.263 --> 00:28:08.093 and the no code, tos and service tool? 00:28:08.153 --> 00:28:09.533 Um, tools and service now, 00:28:09.668 --> 00:28:11.438 Duke: I mean, maybe not necessarily. 00:28:11.438 --> 00:28:13.808 I just haven't seen a hackathon done where there wasn't like 00:28:13.808 --> 00:28:15.932 some significant feature ad. 00:28:16.682 --> 00:28:17.102 CJ: Yeah. 00:28:17.552 --> 00:28:20.612 Duke: And so I would, I would have one just in case, because I think 00:28:20.612 --> 00:28:25.185 most ideas involve something that doesn't quite exist, platform wise. 00:28:25.372 --> 00:28:26.632 CJ: none that I'm thinking about this. 00:28:26.632 --> 00:28:31.198 I would love to see a side by side, like a category for best 00:28:31.288 --> 00:28:33.075 low-code, no-code app entry. 00:28:34.010 --> 00:28:38.040 Because I think that that is a, I hate to say up and coming, right? 00:28:38.070 --> 00:28:39.870 Cuz it's been up and coming for so long. 00:28:40.230 --> 00:28:43.627 But, I would like to see the innovation that comes out of someone who's trying 00:28:43.632 --> 00:28:47.423 to build something that's really freaking cool but limited to the scope of. 00:28:47.623 --> 00:28:52.833 No, this can't be pro style development, but I still wanna win this thing, So now 00:28:52.833 --> 00:28:54.513 it's a, it's a lot more about process. 00:28:54.513 --> 00:28:55.563 It's a lot more about message. 00:28:55.563 --> 00:28:56.673 It's a lot more about pitch. 00:28:56.823 --> 00:29:01.207 It's a lot more about the idea, all that creativity gets funneled maybe 00:29:01.207 --> 00:29:04.207 a little bit in different areas, and maybe something a little bit 00:29:04.207 --> 00:29:05.647 more innovative comes out of it too. 00:29:06.055 --> 00:29:07.675 Duke: Yeah, I mean, I'd be down to see that. 00:29:08.028 --> 00:29:11.455 CJ: think that will, be interesting to see how, uh, how future, hackathons 00:29:11.455 --> 00:29:14.785 shape out because I think, you know, the last time we did a hackathon, um, 00:29:14.785 --> 00:29:19.452 in the ServiceNow space, those local no-code tools weren't really available. 00:29:19.492 --> 00:29:22.342 or at least not as polished as they are now, right. 00:29:22.342 --> 00:29:23.842 With a ees and things like that. 00:29:24.035 --> 00:29:25.505 Duke: Well, we'll see if, we'll see what they say, man. 00:29:25.505 --> 00:29:27.525 Let's, let's hope they have a hackathon this year and maybe 00:29:27.525 --> 00:29:28.665 we can talk them into it. 00:29:29.085 --> 00:29:30.045 CJ: shit, that'd be awesome. 00:29:30.182 --> 00:29:30.482 Duke: All right. 00:29:30.482 --> 00:29:32.552 There was, there was one I did want to cover that 00:29:32.702 --> 00:29:33.362 CJ: Yeah, let's do it. 00:29:33.522 --> 00:29:36.522 Duke: how do you put yourself in a position to have a great 00:29:36.522 --> 00:29:38.112 idea to do a hackathon with? 00:29:38.232 --> 00:29:43.175 And I like, I just have this mindset of learn to love the, the 00:29:43.180 --> 00:29:46.085 smell of garbage, The smell of bs. 00:29:46.085 --> 00:29:51.915 Like just learn to love it because in those work dynamics or processes that 00:29:51.915 --> 00:29:57.003 you just can't, that make great hackathon entries because it's stuff like if 00:29:57.003 --> 00:30:00.673 it cures something that itches us, if it cures something that we hate, then 00:30:00.673 --> 00:30:02.533 people are really gonna resonate with it. 00:30:02.619 --> 00:30:05.949 The secret for my pitches is I could always start it with, Hey, you 00:30:05.949 --> 00:30:09.399 know what's You know what I mean? 00:30:09.399 --> 00:30:12.999 And, and you, they would get halfway through the pitch and you 00:30:13.004 --> 00:30:16.149 could see them nodding like, yeah, that that is Like, I hate that. 00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:17.259 I hate that. 00:30:17.589 --> 00:30:20.793 And then you, then you're hitting them with the, oh, but we can fix it. 00:30:20.793 --> 00:30:22.383 And all it takes is da, da, da with service. 00:30:23.024 --> 00:30:24.154 CJ: I mean, that's, 00:30:24.569 --> 00:30:25.589 Duke: It's like a two stage, right? 00:30:25.589 --> 00:30:28.289 Like you could go with the whole like this is amazing route, but 00:30:28.289 --> 00:30:31.439 if you hit them with the, this is bullshit, and now this is amazing. 00:30:31.439 --> 00:30:32.579 It's a winning combo. 00:30:32.609 --> 00:30:35.809 So you have to just scan through your life and just take an inventory of 00:30:35.809 --> 00:30:45.529 all the things that just like take an inventory of all those things and see 00:30:45.529 --> 00:30:47.299 what you can do about solving them at a. 00:30:47.874 --> 00:30:48.804 CJ: I think that's amazing. 00:30:49.011 --> 00:30:49.281 Yeah. 00:30:49.281 --> 00:30:53.631 And l listen folks lessons from a master hackathon, winner here, you 00:30:53.631 --> 00:30:55.521 know, and a master hackathon pitch guy. 00:30:55.791 --> 00:30:57.771 , you can't make this stuff up , right? 00:30:57.771 --> 00:31:01.581 Like, I mean, it works because it resonates with all of us, right? 00:31:01.701 --> 00:31:02.691 Like we have all thought. 00:31:03.366 --> 00:31:07.806 This thing is at some point in our lives about something. 00:31:08.046 --> 00:31:11.121 And I know we've all thought about it, about work as well, even when 00:31:11.121 --> 00:31:14.871 you have the ability to change it, you still think before you change it. 00:31:15.111 --> 00:31:15.561 This is some 00:31:16.866 --> 00:31:19.806 Duke: It's the whole, like we did a whole episode on it, right? 00:31:19.811 --> 00:31:21.966 It's like the whole reason Service now exists, 00:31:22.311 --> 00:31:22.881 CJ: Yes. 00:31:22.881 --> 00:31:26.681 To take the bullshit outta work, man, they, that would be so great 00:31:26.681 --> 00:31:28.811 if they could use that as a slogan. 00:31:30.041 --> 00:31:31.721 It would, it wouldn't work. 00:31:31.991 --> 00:31:35.351 You know, because obviously you, you know, they're way too big and corporate 00:31:35.356 --> 00:31:37.588 to be able to say, take the outta work. 00:31:37.588 --> 00:31:40.581 But, I think that might be my new informal, uh, way that I 00:31:40.581 --> 00:31:42.081 explain to people what I do. 00:31:42.141 --> 00:31:43.974 I take the bullshit outta work 00:31:44.964 --> 00:31:47.004 Duke: That's a, that's a, that's as good as any of 'em, man. 00:31:47.004 --> 00:31:48.184 That's profound. 00:31:50.209 --> 00:31:51.199 CJ: Credit to you, duke. 00:31:51.408 --> 00:31:51.738 Duke: All right. 00:31:51.738 --> 00:31:53.328 I think that's all we have time for today. 00:31:53.328 --> 00:31:55.398 Folks are at like, what, 45 minutes of recording? 00:31:55.398 --> 00:31:57.178 No, 38 minutes, but definitely at time. 00:31:57.178 --> 00:31:57.598 CJ: no doubt. 00:31:57.598 --> 00:31:58.348 This was a good one. 00:31:58.484 --> 00:31:59.714 yeah, talk to you guys later. 00:31:59.984 --> 00:32:00.524 Duke: See you later. 00:32:00.574 --> 00:32:00.974 Bye-bye. 00:32:01.021 --> 00:32:04.021 78 episodes in and we still don't have a good outro.