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Speaker 1: But it's curiosity as to where we are, what we are, the existence, the physical universe is basically playful.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Curious Humans podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Johnny Miller.

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Speaker 1: The elation that you feel when you feel a certain level of joy for the first time is different than the joy.

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Speaker 1: The freedom that you feel when you feel a certain amount of joy or pleasure for the first time is different than the pleasure.

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Speaker 1: How do you allow for or help people orient towards enjoyment more without trying to force it or create it?

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Speaker 1: It's often more of a letting go than it is a creation or a force.

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Speaker 1: If you experiment with it long enough, you'll find the exact thing that you just found which is like, oh, any kind of force is the opposite of enjoyment.

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Speaker 1: So if I'm trying to engineer enjoyment, it is an enjoyment.

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Speaker 1: But I've also heard you say that safety is in some ways an illusion.

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Speaker 1: So how do you think about safety?

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Speaker 1: Our system knows that if we're trying to force ourselves into doing something, that there's something naturally unsafe.

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Speaker 1: Why else would we fucking do it?

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Speaker 1: And that feeling of safety, if you want it to be reliable, if you want it to be something that can show up regularly, it has to acknowledge the fact that we're not safe.

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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by the one and only Nervous System Mastery.

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Speaker 1: This is my flagship five week course designed to equip you with evidence backed protocols to cultivate calm, rewire reactivity and build emotional regulation in 45 days.

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Speaker 1: My sense is that if the conversations in this podcast resonate with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for upcoming training.

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Speaker 1: The Nervous System Mastery curriculum represents my attempt to distill everything I've learned in recent years about how to create the conditions for our nervous systems flourishing.

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Speaker 1: It's run in an intensive cohort based way since this is, in my experience, the most efficient way to not only learn the information previous students have shared how partaking not only improved their health, but helped them recover from debilitating social anxiety, rekindle relationships with family members, and tap into deeper states of joy, clarity and confidence.

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Speaker 1: At this point, We've had over 1200 students complete nervous System mastery.

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Speaker 1: Many have said it's been the most impactful thing they've ever done to their personal growth.

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Speaker 1: I've also noticed that students who come from this podcast tend to be more thoughtful and active in the community, so I've created a discount code curious that will save $250 on enrollment.

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Speaker 1: This course also supports the podcast, so if you're Intrigued at all.

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Speaker 1: You can find out more details@nsmastery.

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Speaker 1: That's nsmastery.com.

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Cheeristhenus podcast, Joe.

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Speaker 1: Hey, good to be with you, Johnny.

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Speaker 1: How are you feeling in this moment?

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Speaker 1: In three words.

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Speaker 1: Three words.

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Speaker 1: Excited.

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Speaker 1: Great.

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Speaker 1: I've got it in one.

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Speaker 1: I feel like distillation is one of your superpowers.

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Speaker 1: You're the first person that's answered in just one.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things I want to talk to you about is joy.

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Speaker 1: What is it that you understand about joy or how do you see joy that a lot of people don't get?

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Speaker 1: The main way I think about joy that I think is somewhat unique is that my phrase is joy is the matriarch of a family of emotions and she won't come into a house where her children are welcome.

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Speaker 1: And that joy is the result of facing into less comfortable emotions or what we think are less comfortable emotions, only to find out that the less comfortable emotions are really more about the fact that we're resisting them than the actual comfort in the moment.

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Speaker 1: So I'd be like, let's say you have sadness and your brain is telling you, oh, you're going to be sad forever, or what's wrong with you?

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Speaker 1: You shouldn't be sad.

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Speaker 1: You have such a good life and yet you're still sa.

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Speaker 1: Or why haven't you gotten over the fact that your mom died?

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Speaker 1: It's been six months, six years, six, whatever.

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Speaker 1: So that is what makes sadness uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: But if you're just in the sadness, in the moment, those sensations are actually quite comfortable.

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Speaker 1: They're actually pleasant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely feels like there's a physical tension piece in this and something that happened the other day.

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Speaker 1: My wife commented on the fact that you have a remarkably, let's say, fluid and tension free belly.

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Speaker 1: And she was like, wow, I trust Joe more now that I've seen his belly.

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Speaker 1: And this is in the context of a breath work journey.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't just flashing my bow in there.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't judge you.

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Speaker 1: So I guess the questions are like, what was that journey like for you to kind of, I guess, release a lot of tension in your body?

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Speaker 1: What shifts did you notice and how did that relate to joy?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so my experience was I worked with a woman named Michelle who's now passed.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, so many of my teachers have passed and she was actually right around here.

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Speaker 1: She was maybe 10 miles away from here.

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Speaker 1: And every day I would or not every day, every week when I was here.

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Speaker 1: So I travel a lot.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't every week but it was definitely every other.

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Speaker 1: And mostly every week, I would lay down in her session room, which was in her house, and I would lay down and spot naked, and I'd be in a certain position, and she would have me breathe, and then she would poke at me at places that she saw that were stuck.

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Speaker 1: And the breath work that I did, which is similar to the one that you teach but slightly different, was all about stretching.

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Speaker 1: All the ways that the body had held back emotions.

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Speaker 1: I found out about her because I was hanging out one day and I saw an old friend, and I was like, whatever happened to you?

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Speaker 1: Tell me, because I can see how different you are.

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Speaker 1: And he's the one that said, oh, you should go see Michelle.

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Speaker 1: And so you'd seen him before and after.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like, I hung out with him like a year before.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 1: And then I saw him, I was like, what?

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Speaker 1: Like, I literally just stopped him.

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Speaker 1: It was like, near the Whole Foods or something.

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Speaker 1: I was like, hey.

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Speaker 1: Oh, hey, John.

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Speaker 1: What happened to you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like, your whole body is different.

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Speaker 1: And so that's how I found her.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of the benefit happened, I think, in the first year.

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Speaker 1: Like, as, like, the stuff that was really palpable happened for me in the first year.

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Speaker 1: I ended up doing it for seven and maybe six.

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Speaker 1: I'm not good with time, but it was literally, you know, if I say to you right now, hey, hold, stop feeling right, you have to hold down emotions.

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Speaker 1: And so with your muscles.

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Speaker 1: And so if I've been taught not to be sad because boys don't cry, I have to hold that all the time.

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Speaker 1: And that creates body tension and constriction.

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Speaker 1: And, you know, when I do coaching, as I've done, you know, people think that it's somewhat magic, but it's not.

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Speaker 1: It's like I can just see how somebody's holding their body as part of it.

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Speaker 1: So how somebody's holding their body and tells me what emotions they're not allowing themselves to feel, or more precisely, been trained not to feel because it's our nature to feel our emotions.

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Speaker 1: And so she was really trained at that.

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Speaker 1: And she would poke, poke.

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Speaker 1: And I'd sometimes walk away bruised and sometimes not.

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Speaker 1: I remember this one time, I think it was like two years in, I vomited in the middle of the session, which is not uncommon.

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Speaker 1: It's not uncommon in.

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Speaker 1: I see it a lot in the, like, in person stuff that we do.

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Speaker 1: And she's like, almost a release.

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Speaker 1: I was like, what the fuck?

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Speaker 1: Next time.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: Bomb and ardor.

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Speaker 1: What do you need more stuff in there?

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Speaker 1: When I, you know, like, what's going on?

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Speaker 1: She had a very particular kind of release that she didn't.

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Speaker 1: That she thought was like the best kind of release.

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Speaker 1: And, and I won't say what that was because she didn't tell me what that was because then people try to mimic it, you know, and.

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Speaker 1: But it was the same kind of release that you would see a baby do that like had, was having a full body release.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 1: So basically a lot of that work is we're born with this full capacity to feel.

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Speaker 1: And the bell, like you see how like 2 year olds walk around belly first and yeah, they say fluid, right.

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Speaker 1: They just go between emotions like anger, sadness, joy.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: Without any of the mental resistance.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, she would say things like, you know, baby can cry for two hours and not get hoarse.

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Speaker 1: So if we're getting hoarse, it means that there's constriction that we're holding.

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Speaker 1: Super interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 1: So how did your experience of joy change after this experience?

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Speaker 1: Great.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, there was a lot of changes in the way that work affected me.

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Speaker 1: My laugh was different.

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Speaker 1: My ability to say what I felt changed.

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Speaker 1: My ability to just be myself in the moment.

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Speaker 1: This woman, Michelle, it was like there was no filter, whatever she felt like saying.

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Speaker 1: I became a lot more like that.

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Speaker 1: My orgasms changed.

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Speaker 1: They went from like short and long to very long extended orgasms.

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Speaker 1: So my ability to feel pleasure, to laugh, all of it just changed and was just far more fluid.

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Speaker 1: And in that there's a lot more fluidity in all the emotions and therefore joy.

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Speaker 1: And I think that I came up with the saying, joy is a matriarch of a family of emotions at the time when, like two or three years into that work, because I just realized, oh, I'm feeling all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I had done a lot of emotional work before then, but just I had no idea how much had been impacted and set in place that were working on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And do you think that phrase joy is a matriarch of the family of emotions arose from like once these emotions, I guess you've been resisting to some degree shifted, there usually is this like enormous kind of wave or like expansive joy.

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Speaker 1: Is that the experience you had over and over again and.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes.

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Speaker 1: So definitely I had moments of, you know, being in the world and just seeing like this thin veneer personality behind like just these love buckets.

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Speaker 1: That's like, that was the experience.

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Speaker 1: And I was just.

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Speaker 1: I could fall in love with everybody, which is distinct from liking People, but there's just, like, this deep love for people.

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Speaker 1: And that happened, and there was a lot of joy and expansion, but there was this thing that happened where I thought that those peaks were where I was supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: And so there was some version of understanding that two things were happening simultaneously.

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Speaker 1: One is that my emotional framing was a little bit like the stock market.

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Speaker 1: It went up and down, but it was always going up.

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Speaker 1: And so oftentimes, I would relate the down that was happening to the most recent up, not the down of two years ago, because the down of two years ago was the up.

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Speaker 1: I see the down of today would be up a few years ago.

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Speaker 1: But so there's this weird thing that was happening where, oh, wait, I can go like that last high.

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Speaker 1: I need to be like that last high, instead of realizing that my down today was like a peak experience from five years ago.

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Speaker 1: So it's not exactly right, but it generally trends in that way.

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Speaker 1: And so there was some recognition that the elation that you feel when you feel a certain level of joy for the first time is different than the joy.

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Speaker 1: The freedom that you feel when you feel a certain amount of joy or pleasure for the first time is different than the pleasure.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of the times, we mistake the elation for the joy and pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh, my God, this is impossible.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like a kid learning to walk for the first time.

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Speaker 1: Like, if you ever watch a kid take steps for the first time, they're like, oh, yeah, and then they fall on their butt.

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Speaker 1: Then they're walking two weeks later, and they fall on their butt, and they're frustrated, but they're not mistaking the walking from the elation and the frustration.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 1: Interesting.

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Speaker 1: And so there's a joy that happens that's different than the relief or the excitement of the first time.

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Speaker 1: And people got very confused, and they'll start chasing that state of elation or the freedom that they feel because they've had a breakthrough, which is different than sustaining joy.

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Speaker 1: Sustained isn't.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Joy sustained is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's quite sweet and lovely and soft and quiet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful.

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Speaker 1: So this wasn't the direction I was thinking of going, but I've been experimenting with joy through Jhana practice recently.

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Speaker 1: And my experience is that actually the sensation changes depending on where my awareness in my body is.

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Speaker 1: So joy in the head is almost like rapture.

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Speaker 1: Joy in the heart is like love and joy kind of down in the belly or the perineum is like, there's, like, beautiful stillness and just like void.

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Speaker 1: Do you have that kind of experience?

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Speaker 1: Is it that kind of, like, background sense that is always there?

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Speaker 1: Like, how do you.

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Speaker 1: How do you physically experience joy in the body?

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Speaker 1: I guess is the question.

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Speaker 1: What did you say was the head?

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Speaker 1: You said head for me is almost like.

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Speaker 1: Like rapture or devotion or kind of like awe.

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Speaker 1: Like a sense of like, wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I would call it devotion would be more of the word I would use for it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But it is the recognition of something greater than myself.

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Speaker 1: Not in a God way, but in a, like, we live on a planet way.

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Speaker 1: You know, just like.

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Speaker 1: Not that I have a problem with the God way either.

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Speaker 1: I think they're really similar.

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Speaker 1: But.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I would say that my experience of joy is all three of those things hanging out together.

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Speaker 1: And generally in my life is what I notice is that my life is an act of devotion.

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Speaker 1: There was another word I used to use for it, but, yeah, devotion.

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Speaker 1: There is a tremendous amount of love, like, and there's a tremendous amount of peace.

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Speaker 1: I don't need to be doing something different than what I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: And there doesn't feel like there's a.

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Speaker 1: Like, for many years of my life, I was running from this, like, existential feeling all the time.

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Speaker 1: And that's not the case.

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Speaker 1: But I hesitate to say that because when I was not living from this place, I would hear somebody do that and then that became the thing that I had to do to be good enough.

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Speaker 1: That was the place that I had to get to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can relate to that.

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Speaker 1: And then there was also.

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Speaker 1: I would hit it and there would be this elation and I would mistake that from the actual thing.

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Speaker 1: My experience is that there's also a great remembering to it, meaning that when these things start setting in place, there's a. Oh, this is always how I've been.

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Speaker 1: Like, this is the part of me that hasn't changed a lot changes.

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Speaker 1: My thoughts change, my emotional states change.

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Speaker 1: But if I ask myself, like, what hasn't changed the whole time, it is that feeling that is all three of those things described differently depending on what part of your consciousness you're coming from.

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Speaker 1: But that's the thing that's been behind everything else the whole time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful.

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Speaker 1: And so in some ways, the practices or the inner work is like a process of remembering that place when you inevitably forget when life arises.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a bit like the body version of that was.

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Speaker 1: Oh, like you knew this when you were a baby.

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Speaker 1: We're going to remind your system how to get back to that thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very similar in that way.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason for the journey though.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 1: To have moved away from it and back to it is a really important part of.

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I could exist in the world if I hadn't moved away from it and come back to it.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 1: There's a. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Like, what is the reason?

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Speaker 1: I think it's very similar to like deciduous trees that are lose their leaves.

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Speaker 1: They're like, oh, I know.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh, leaves.

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Speaker 1: It's like sun.

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Speaker 1: There's this fantasy that is, once I'm joyful, I'll never feel X again.

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Speaker 1: You know, why is it that I'm sad when I have all this great stuff and I've had this peak experience and I have a loving wife and I have money and why am I.

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Speaker 1: There's this idea that you're going to get beyond that stuff and that stuff is really important.

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Speaker 1: It's really important to cry.

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Speaker 1: It's really important to get angry.

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Speaker 1: It's really important.

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Speaker 1: Not angry at somebody, but to move that kind of energy.

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Speaker 1: It's really important to have fear.

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Speaker 1: And it's like a natural thing in us.

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Speaker 1: And so to go through that allows you to integrate that and have that as a part of your life.

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Speaker 1: But remember your nature, like what's natural and what's happening in your world rather than like this idea that we're going to transcend and not integrate.

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Speaker 1: You know, like, I learned how to crawl and then I learned how to walk.

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Speaker 1: I can still crawl.

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Speaker 1: I need to crawl sometimes.

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Speaker 1: I'm really happy that I can still crawl.

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Speaker 1: When I'm crawling, I don't go, what the fuck?

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Speaker 1: I forgot to walk.

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Speaker 1: What's wrong with me?

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Speaker 1: And so I think it's a really similar trajectory.

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Speaker 1: You, you.

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Speaker 1: All of those, like emotional components are incredibly important signals.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh, I'm scared right now.

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Speaker 1: That means I am not taking care of myself in some way.

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Speaker 1: Or it means I'm being asked to do something that I'm uncomfortable with because it's.

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Speaker 1: It's bigger.

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Speaker 1: I have to step into a bigger room, I have to get onto a bigger stage.

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Speaker 1: Or I have to say my truth in a way that is a little scarier than I've had to in the past.

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Speaker 1: That's like a great signal.

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Speaker 1: Or I'm angry.

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Speaker 1: It means, oh, I've got a boundary that I need to set that there's something that, I mean, asked to do that doesn't feel right, or I'm not taking care of myself.

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Speaker 1: In a way of like a codependence or something to that effect.

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Speaker 1: They're really good signals and I want to be able to have them and I want to have known the pain of not listening to them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So this is like beautiful feedback, basically.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's a really nice segue to.

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Speaker 1: So I know you're a fan of parables and poetry.

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Speaker 1: There's a line that I wanted to kind of.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to share because I think it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: This is from Hafiz.

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Speaker 1: He says, the small man builds cages for everyone he knows, while the sage who has to duck his head when the moon is low keeps dropping all night, keeps dropping keys all night long for the beautiful rowdy prisoners.

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Speaker 1: Which is so great.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 1: And I share this because I think you and the guys at AOA have become these craftsmen or forges of keys that can unlock people's cages.

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Speaker 1: And I love what you said earlier of seeing people as these love buckets with these thin veneers of personality, and you guys drop in these kind of well crafted keys for them to kind of express and free themselves in different ways.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really sweet way to put it.

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Speaker 1: It's cool.

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Speaker 1: We were just at a.

273
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Speaker 1: We did a reunion.

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Speaker 1: And our reunion is somebody who's done the deeper work with us, whether it's like one of our longer online courses or in person, week long.

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Speaker 1: If they do that, then they can come to this reunion and where we move some emotions and do a little of that breath work and do a whole bunch of the exercises and just to see the face changes both in, like, I remember when you first came to AOA and now I see you now and like, how their face and body has changed, how their demeanor has changed, how their hug has changed.

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Speaker 1: It is really satisfying work.

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Speaker 1: It feels really good.

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Speaker 1: And you explore projections, if I'm not mistaken for the last one, we did projections.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Every year we do something different.

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Speaker 1: We did money the year before that and think boundaries.

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Speaker 1: The year before that, we call it a reunion, but we used to call it the super mega happy fun time reunion.

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Speaker 1: Then we realized somebody showed up and they're just like, yeah, I decided to come because it was a super mega happy fun time reunion.

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Speaker 1: And I have been like, crying and screaming and doing like hardcore work from 9 in the morning till 9 at night.

285
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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, maybe it's probably much fun.

286
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Speaker 1: Maybe too much fun.

287
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Speaker 1: Maybe we should change 10% less fun.

288
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Speaker 1: Now we just call it the reunion.

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Speaker 1: Something that I've been thinking a lot about recently is.

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Speaker 1: And you actually had a tweet that I think was a banger.

291
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Speaker 1: Was.

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Speaker 1: You said, ultimately, my approach isn't about fixing yourself, but about undoing what is in the way of your natural capacity and potential.

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Speaker 1: And the question I have is, how do you think about addressing the fact that the majority of people that come to AOA likely have this motivation of some part of me is broken or needs fixing as opposed to coming from this place of I'm already whole?

294
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Speaker 1: Because it seems like that could really get in the way of the work that you're doing.

295
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Speaker 1: If there is this underlying premise of almost.

296
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Speaker 1: That's almost all the work we're doing.

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Speaker 1: Almost all the work we're doing.

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Speaker 1: Doing is showing folks that one is that they're their own authority.

299
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Speaker 1: I'm not the authority.

300
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Speaker 1: Somebody else isn't the authority.

301
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Speaker 1: Buddha was pretty good at this.

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Speaker 1: But almost every major teacher that I've ever really adored and loved has said, basically, don't trust me.

303
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Speaker 1: Test it for yourself.

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Speaker 1: Some version of that.

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Speaker 1: I would go maybe even farther of the best expression of this.

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Speaker 1: So I have two girls.

307
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Speaker 1: Have you met either of them?

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Speaker 1: I met Esme.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And when they were younger, I wouldn't do things.

312
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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say, good job.

313
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Speaker 1: That was great.

314
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Speaker 1: Probably I should have done a little more of it at one point, one of my kids.

315
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Speaker 1: But mostly what I would be doing is I would be asking them how it felt.

316
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Speaker 1: How was that for you?

317
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Speaker 1: Oh, I see how excited you are.

318
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Speaker 1: That's amazing.

319
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Speaker 1: Because I wanted them to refer to their own authority.

320
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Speaker 1: I had absolute trust that who they are essentially is good and that it wants to be this amazing thing in the world.

321
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Speaker 1: And I trusted that, and I showed them that.

322
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Speaker 1: I trusted that.

323
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Speaker 1: We never punished our girls.

324
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Speaker 1: We occasionally shamed them and then apologized for it.

325
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Speaker 1: We were.

326
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Speaker 1: We were still.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

328
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Speaker 1: But, like, it was all about, like, oh, I see your essential goodness, and I'm going to treat you that way.

329
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Speaker 1: I. I see that you know what to do.

330
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Speaker 1: I'm going to treat you that way.

331
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

332
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Speaker 1: And that is far more effective.

333
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

334
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Speaker 1: And the reason that we do it is because we want them to see that in themselves.

335
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

336
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Speaker 1: Oh, right.

337
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

338
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Speaker 1: I get it.

339
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Speaker 1: That, like, a small oak tree becomes a big oak tree, but I also get the fact that a small oak tree is perfect and the big oak tree is perfect, and it's just evolution that's occurring.

340
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Speaker 1: And so that's how I see.

341
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Speaker 1: And that's how we train folks to see the people that we're working with.

342
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Speaker 1: They're the authority.

343
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Speaker 1: They know what's.

344
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Speaker 1: They know better than I do.

345
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Speaker 1: I mean, you see the coaching, and it looks like I know shit, but I'm very deeply following the person because I know that the next step for them is unique to them.

346
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Speaker 1: And.

347
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Speaker 1: And you don't know what that is.

348
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Speaker 1: And I don't know what that is.

349
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Speaker 1: There's no way I can.

350
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Speaker 1: But they do.

351
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Speaker 1: They know it.

352
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Speaker 1: You know, I just have to open up enough doors for them to look in, and they're like, oh, yeah, that's the way.

353
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

354
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Speaker 1: I love that.

355
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Speaker 1: And something that I've been exploring for myself is this, like, noticing when there's some part of me that either doesn't fully trust myself or doesn't fully trust, like, life.

356
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

357
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Speaker 1: And that's usually, like, again, another signpost.

358
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Speaker 1: Do that.

359
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Speaker 1: Would you say, what.

360
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Speaker 1: Like, what.

361
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Speaker 1: What changed for you?

362
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Speaker 1: Or like, how is your relationship with trusting life and trusting yourself unfolded to the point where now you can just, like, fully be in that coaching relationship and just completely trust whatever's coming up for them?

363
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

364
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Speaker 1: So trusting myself and trusting life, I don't think there's a distinction between the two.

365
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Speaker 1: Like, one strips of projection of the other.

366
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Speaker 1: So that would be.

367
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Speaker 1: And.

368
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Speaker 1: And for me, it's more trusting life than it is trusting self.

369
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Speaker 1: So, you know, it was building self trust that helped me trust life, but now it's.

370
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Speaker 1: I guess it's like trusting life moving through you in a way.

371
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Speaker 1: Exactly.

372
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

373
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

374
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Speaker 1: Which is all that's ever happening.

375
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Speaker 1: It's an interesting question.

376
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Speaker 1: Right.

377
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Speaker 1: Because on some level, of course, I look at what I've done, and I'm like, oh, I am a baby oak tree, and I am continuing to grow.

378
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Speaker 1: And so there is a way in which I look at the work that I do in the world, and it's constantly improving, which means there's constantly mistakes.

379
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Speaker 1: I'm finding, if you would want to call them that.

380
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Speaker 1: I don't particularly call them that because I don't think the baby oak tree made a mistake by being a baby oak tree.

381
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Speaker 1: Right.

382
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Speaker 1: But there is this constant way in which I'm improving.

383
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Speaker 1: So there's the discernment of, oh, this is what wants to happen next, and this is what didn't feel quite right.

384
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Speaker 1: And that's almost always how it works, is that it feels like the way that evolution happens inside of me is something doesn't feel quite right, and then I work on that thing, and then all of a sudden I'm more sensitive and Then now I can feel the next thing that doesn't feel quite right.

385
00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:19,980
Speaker 1: And then that like creates another like evolution which makes me more sensitive.

386
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Speaker 1: And now I can find.

387
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Speaker 1: So it's like this like higher level of discernment.

388
00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:25,460
Speaker 1: Yeah.

389
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Speaker 1: And sensitivity too, which can be a double edged sword in my experience.

390
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Speaker 1: Because if you don't listen to it creates a lot of pain.

391
00:27:32,620 --> 00:27:34,060
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah.

392
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Speaker 1: I don't call that a double edged sword.

393
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Speaker 1: I call that like, thank God.

394
00:27:37,260 --> 00:27:37,820
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.

395
00:27:37,820 --> 00:27:38,220
Speaker 1: Yeah.

396
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Speaker 1: A double edged sword if you don't listen to it.

397
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:41,260
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

398
00:27:41,260 --> 00:27:41,660
Speaker 1: Yeah.

399
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Speaker 1: And that's why my experience of life now is like, it feels almost choiceless.

400
00:27:51,260 --> 00:27:51,820
Speaker 1: Yes.

401
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Speaker 1: Because like if I feel this and I'm called to this certain thing, I can't say no because I know how much it fucking hurts if I say no.

402
00:28:00,940 --> 00:28:01,620
Speaker 1: That's interesting.

403
00:28:01,620 --> 00:28:09,500
Speaker 1: And it's choiceless because you have such sensitivity to what is in or out of alignment with what.

404
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Speaker 1: Like.

405
00:28:11,740 --> 00:28:12,300
Speaker 1: That's right.

406
00:28:12,300 --> 00:28:12,700
Speaker 1: Okay.

407
00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:12,980
Speaker 1: Yeah.

408
00:28:12,980 --> 00:28:13,660
Speaker 1: That's the experience.

409
00:28:14,220 --> 00:28:14,700
Speaker 1: Yeah.

410
00:28:14,780 --> 00:28:15,980
Speaker 1: That reminds me of the.

411
00:28:16,540 --> 00:28:21,340
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things that you've talked about many times is this idea of enjoyment being efficient.

412
00:28:21,660 --> 00:28:22,140
Speaker 1: Yeah.

413
00:28:22,300 --> 00:28:25,140
Speaker 1: And yeah.

414
00:28:25,140 --> 00:28:25,820
Speaker 1: I mean a.

415
00:28:25,980 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 1: It's so interesting how like it's so there's parts of me that are like, fuck that.

416
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: I try and come up with examples that it's not true, but I think I agree with you.

417
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: And with my own experimentation with enjoyment, I've noticed that if I try and manufacture it doesn't really work.

418
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: But there is a way that it can be kind of oriented towards how do you.

419
00:28:52,000 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: Or how do you teach or for yourself, how do you allow for or help people orient towards enjoyment more without trying to force it or create it?

420
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

421
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: So enjoyment is often more of a letting go than it is a creation or a force.

422
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: If you experiment with it long enough, you'll find the exact thing that you just found which is like, oh, any kind of force is the opposite of enjoyment.

423
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,630
Speaker 1: So if I'm trying to engineer enjoyment, it is an enjoyment.

424
00:29:23,270 --> 00:29:25,750
Speaker 1: So what starts to.

425
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:30,870
Speaker 1: What you start to find out is that at any moment you can enjoy just a little bit more.

426
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:33,350
Speaker 1: Not if you try to force it.

427
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:38,870
Speaker 1: Like right now, if I was like, okay, I'm going to force enjoyment like my body constrictions.

428
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:44,630
Speaker 1: But if I'm like, oh, how do I enjoy myself just a little bit more right now?

429
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:54,340
Speaker 1: My vision becomes a little more expanded, my body becomes a little more relaxed, I'm a little more present with you and it's like, wow, I didn't have to change anything.

430
00:29:54,740 --> 00:29:57,860
Speaker 1: Nothing particularly changed outside of just this question arose.

431
00:29:58,100 --> 00:29:58,660
Speaker 1: Yeah.

432
00:29:59,140 --> 00:30:03,700
Speaker 1: But if anything, there's the experience of feeling more or receiving more.

433
00:30:04,980 --> 00:30:06,500
Speaker 1: Either way, you want to look at that.

434
00:30:06,580 --> 00:30:16,750
Speaker 1: And maybe it's receiving more because the question created a space of, like, less tension in your body, which then maybe allowed for more expansiveness and then more receiving.

435
00:30:16,830 --> 00:30:18,350
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

436
00:30:18,830 --> 00:30:22,750
Speaker 1: And so then that's what enjoyment becomes.

437
00:30:22,750 --> 00:30:36,030
Speaker 1: That clearly there are certain things that I do that I enjoy more than other things, you know, and so if I look at my life, there are things that I don't enjoy that I do less of now than I used to do or I don't do at all.

438
00:30:36,590 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: And there's things that I have learned how to enjoy that I used to not enjoy doing.

439
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: And so between those two things, life is pretty enjoyable.

440
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: If I am going to write emails, and I know I'm going to write emails, and I either do it with enjoyment or not enjoyment, like, this is a great experiment people can do.

441
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: If you do it with enjoyment, it feels like it's taking a little more time.

442
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: You type a little slower, you're a little more present and your body more in your body more.

443
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: So the whole thing's moving a little bit slower.

444
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: And so, like, how is that efficient?

445
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, efficiency isn't how fast you go.

446
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: A fast car is not an efficient car.

447
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: The first thing is that the efficiency is there because it's taken less energy.

448
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: So at the end of the email writing session, you have more energy.

449
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: So that's good.

450
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: You can work more if you want to or enjoy yourself more if you want to, and then.

451
00:31:36,270 --> 00:31:36,750
Speaker 1: Or both.

452
00:31:37,790 --> 00:31:44,510
Speaker 1: But the other piece is that if you're being present in your emails, there's a lot less back and forth in your emails.

453
00:31:44,590 --> 00:31:45,950
Speaker 1: So it ends up being quicker.

454
00:31:46,590 --> 00:31:49,790
Speaker 1: It ends up being, oh, I took my time with this email.

455
00:31:49,790 --> 00:31:58,910
Speaker 1: And instead of just answering the question or getting emotionally overwhelmed and putting it in the to do later category, where then I'm going to have to read it again.

456
00:31:58,990 --> 00:31:59,950
Speaker 1: I've never done that before.

457
00:32:01,630 --> 00:32:06,430
Speaker 1: Then you have to read it again, which takes twice as much time to respond to the email.

458
00:32:07,230 --> 00:32:09,910
Speaker 1: Instead, I'm going to, oh, that brings up this in me.

459
00:32:09,910 --> 00:32:11,030
Speaker 1: I'm going to enjoy that thing.

460
00:32:11,030 --> 00:32:14,910
Speaker 1: And then I'm present with it and then I'm going to respond right away.

461
00:32:15,470 --> 00:32:24,030
Speaker 1: Or I'm going to take a moment and go, okay, so I can just answer and press Enter and get the dopamine hit.

462
00:32:24,670 --> 00:32:26,590
Speaker 1: Or I can say, what is it?

463
00:32:26,590 --> 00:32:30,190
Speaker 1: I really want Here, what's the real thing that I want?

464
00:32:30,190 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: And I can make that email move two or three things down the line or jump a step rather than just do the thing.

465
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: And I notice this inside of our business all the time.

466
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: I can just tell you when someone's just trying to get through their emails.

467
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, it bothers the crap out of me, honestly, because I'm like, you're wasting my fucking time.

468
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: You know, you're not taking a moment and considering what you're actually trying to accomplish here.

469
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: Instead you're just getting that to do list because you're in anxiety and you can tell the difference in the emails where it's coming from.

470
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: I feel personally called out in this moment, but I love the idea of.

471
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: And that's another thing that I appreciate about your work is like the way you want to email is in a work practice.

472
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: That's something that you can really do every day.

473
00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:28,620
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great.

474
00:33:28,780 --> 00:33:29,140
Speaker 1: Yeah.

475
00:33:29,140 --> 00:33:47,020
Speaker 1: Something I'm curious about as well, and this is from conversations with a friend, is this idea of like noticing when I'm acting from like for reasons or like justifying versus just like I intuitively feel like this would be good and in alignment to do.

476
00:33:47,180 --> 00:33:47,580
Speaker 1: Yeah.

477
00:33:47,580 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: And so I guess the question is, what is the role of reason in the way that you make decisions and the way that you show up and act?

478
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: Reason is a lovely, beautiful, amazing thing.

479
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: I love it.

480
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: I love a fucking amazing intellectual brain.

481
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: You know, I work with people in AI and golly crap, I'm so smart.

482
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: And this weekend were with some people who are just brilliantly smart.

483
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: I love a great brain.

484
00:34:20,649 --> 00:34:32,089
Speaker 1: I find when we're making decisions, bringing forward, we're just relying on the brain that things go sideways.

485
00:34:32,969 --> 00:34:42,329
Speaker 1: So apparently there's something that like in Every second there's 11 bits of information that you get from your brain, but like 40,000 bits of information you get from your body.

486
00:34:42,969 --> 00:34:45,969
Speaker 1: You have four times more afferent neurons than efferent neurons.

487
00:34:45,969 --> 00:34:49,289
Speaker 1: So it's like a superhighway going up and like one lane of traffic going down.

488
00:34:49,289 --> 00:34:49,929
Speaker 1: Oh, cool.

489
00:34:49,929 --> 00:34:50,529
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

490
00:34:50,529 --> 00:34:51,049
Speaker 1: That's great.

491
00:34:51,710 --> 00:34:51,989
Speaker 1: Yeah.

492
00:34:51,989 --> 00:35:02,430
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of information to get from the body to make a decision from the heart, from the gut.

493
00:35:03,950 --> 00:35:11,550
Speaker 1: And I say those things not because it's actually the heart or actually the gut, it's just that's the somatic experience of it.

494
00:35:14,510 --> 00:35:15,790
Speaker 1: And there is some neurology.

495
00:35:15,790 --> 00:35:19,270
Speaker 1: There's like a cat sized brain and the gut and the mouse sized brain.

496
00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:19,790
Speaker 1: Around the heart.

497
00:35:19,790 --> 00:35:20,350
Speaker 1: But the.

498
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of information there.

499
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: And then the other thing is, if you look at how we work neurologically in the brain, that the decision making happens for the most part in the emotional center of the brain.

500
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: Meaning that if that part gets destroyed and the logic is there and the IQ is there, we can't decide what color pen to use for like 30 minutes or whatnot.

501
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: So logic is this really wonderful thing, but it seems to work best when it's in the background a little bit.

502
00:35:50,860 --> 00:35:53,020
Speaker 1: Like I'm logically talking to you right now.

503
00:35:53,980 --> 00:35:55,380
Speaker 1: I'm constructing sentences.

504
00:35:55,380 --> 00:35:56,620
Speaker 1: That requires logic.

505
00:35:56,860 --> 00:35:58,300
Speaker 1: I'm making sense in my sentences.

506
00:35:58,300 --> 00:35:59,500
Speaker 1: At least I hope I am.

507
00:35:59,580 --> 00:36:01,020
Speaker 1: That requires some logic.

508
00:36:01,660 --> 00:36:02,100
Speaker 1: Kind of.

509
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:05,980
Speaker 1: Joe, I get that a lot of people talking about.

510
00:36:07,340 --> 00:36:08,460
Speaker 1: I listened to your podcast.

511
00:36:08,460 --> 00:36:09,300
Speaker 1: It made no sense.

512
00:36:09,300 --> 00:36:11,260
Speaker 1: I listened to it again and then it made sense.

513
00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:16,860
Speaker 1: Which I know isn't particularly about the rationale.

514
00:36:18,050 --> 00:36:20,610
Speaker 1: It's just about where the logic lays in the.

515
00:36:20,770 --> 00:36:21,570
Speaker 1: In the process.

516
00:36:21,810 --> 00:36:35,610
Speaker 1: And so what I notice, and there's this study that I was reading just last night about how leaders typically have a lot more time in theta, which is kind of a meditative state or the space between dream and awake.

517
00:36:35,610 --> 00:36:36,210
Speaker 1: It's that.

518
00:36:36,930 --> 00:36:39,570
Speaker 1: And that they're just in theta a lot more.

519
00:36:40,290 --> 00:36:45,780
Speaker 1: And my experience of that is that the logic is just there.

520
00:36:46,500 --> 00:36:47,620
Speaker 1: It's just happening.

521
00:36:47,620 --> 00:36:53,380
Speaker 1: And I don't need to particularly occasionally I'll stop and I'll think, But generally it's just happening.

522
00:36:53,380 --> 00:36:58,020
Speaker 1: For me, it's like a tool that my system knows how to use.

523
00:36:58,580 --> 00:37:07,580
Speaker 1: Much like the way a basketball player, if like a professional basketball player is playing, they're using their body, they're using their brain, but they're not fucking thinking.

524
00:37:07,580 --> 00:37:09,020
Speaker 1: And they're not definitely not thinking.

525
00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:12,140
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to take the right turn and then I'm going to take the left and the.

526
00:37:12,140 --> 00:37:13,700
Speaker 1: That would be a terrible basketball player.

527
00:37:14,020 --> 00:37:15,300
Speaker 1: Terrible basketball player.

528
00:37:15,620 --> 00:37:16,410
Speaker 1: So it's very stressful.

529
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: Similar to that.

530
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: Yes, that if you can trust your thinking.

531
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: And what typically happens is that when people are caught in their head and they're thinking too much, it's all just an avoidance of emotion.

532
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: And that if they move that emotion, the clarity of thought comes immediately.

533
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 1: Sure.

534
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:44,740
Speaker 1: So you mentioned that when people avoid emotions, they typically will maybe get stuck in their head and maybe make poor decisions.

535
00:37:44,740 --> 00:37:45,580
Speaker 1: Etc, Etc.

536
00:37:46,220 --> 00:37:48,380
Speaker 1: This is something I'm really interested in.

537
00:37:48,380 --> 00:37:49,900
Speaker 1: The work I do is around the nervous system.

538
00:37:50,460 --> 00:37:54,860
Speaker 1: And something that I keep coming back to over again is this idea of safety.

539
00:37:56,780 --> 00:38:09,580
Speaker 1: I attempt to help Create the conditions for senses of safety so that almost like the intelligence of the nervous system in the body can kind of unfold from there.

540
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: But I've also heard you say that safety is in some ways an illusion.

541
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

542
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: So how do you think about safety?

543
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.

544
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: It's a question I've never had before, which I love.

545
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: So safety is an illusion.

546
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: We're not safe by nature.

547
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: And there's something in us that knows that.

548
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:40,490
Speaker 1: And so just like with enjoyment, if you try to force doesn't work.

549
00:38:41,770 --> 00:38:50,010
Speaker 1: So trying to force safety is in itself a feeling of lack of safety, which is why so many people are anxious, trying to force their anxiety out of the way.

550
00:38:50,090 --> 00:38:51,290
Speaker 1: They're like, it doesn't happen.

551
00:38:51,369 --> 00:38:52,730
Speaker 1: I'm still fucking anxious.

552
00:38:52,970 --> 00:38:59,330
Speaker 1: Because our system knows that if we're trying to force ourselves into doing something that there's something naturally unsafe.

553
00:38:59,330 --> 00:39:00,890
Speaker 1: Why else would we fucking do it?

554
00:39:01,220 --> 00:39:01,780
Speaker 1: Right, Right.

555
00:39:02,260 --> 00:39:05,340
Speaker 1: And so there's that aspect.

556
00:39:05,340 --> 00:39:08,340
Speaker 1: So there's some recognition that has to come that you.

557
00:39:08,980 --> 00:39:20,820
Speaker 1: And that feeling of safety, if you want it to be reliable, if you want it to be something that can show up regularly, it has to acknowledge the fact that we're not safe.

558
00:39:21,460 --> 00:39:26,580
Speaker 1: So, like, I get to be safe in the.

559
00:39:27,140 --> 00:39:32,260
Speaker 1: In the idea that I am going to definitely die, in the idea that could happen at any moment.

560
00:39:32,820 --> 00:39:38,180
Speaker 1: That at any moment you could start yelling at me and telling me I'm an asshole, like, anything can happen.

561
00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:42,580
Speaker 1: And so where does that sense of safety come from?

562
00:39:42,900 --> 00:39:45,860
Speaker 1: And I think that sense of safety comes from two different things.

563
00:39:45,860 --> 00:39:50,660
Speaker 1: One is the recognition that in some way you're dying every minute.

564
00:39:52,180 --> 00:39:55,300
Speaker 1: Like, who I was today is different than who I was yesterday.

565
00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:56,610
Speaker 1: Definitely than a year ago.

566
00:39:56,610 --> 00:39:57,850
Speaker 1: Definitely than 10 years ago.

567
00:39:57,850 --> 00:40:09,330
Speaker 1: So there's that thing, and there's also this recognition of, well, whatever comes doesn't mean that I have to leave myself, including my death, including you yelling at me.

568
00:40:09,970 --> 00:40:17,810
Speaker 1: And so that recognition, that creates a sense of safety that's incredibly deep and profound.

569
00:40:17,970 --> 00:40:22,970
Speaker 1: And that is far more resilient than any kind of sense of safety that you're going to get.

570
00:40:22,970 --> 00:40:29,450
Speaker 1: Because I finally have enough money or I finally have enough people who love me, or I finally have enough power or whatever that is.

571
00:40:30,250 --> 00:40:30,930
Speaker 1: So that's one.

572
00:40:30,930 --> 00:40:32,490
Speaker 1: I think that's a big component of it.

573
00:40:32,490 --> 00:40:43,770
Speaker 1: Then there's another component of it, which is if I want to do work with people, if they're safe, if they feel safe, then they're going to learn a lot quicker.

574
00:40:44,570 --> 00:40:46,810
Speaker 1: So I want them to feel safe.

575
00:40:48,410 --> 00:40:52,350
Speaker 1: If they feel completely safe, there are certain things they're never going to learn.

576
00:40:53,390 --> 00:40:54,190
Speaker 1: That's interesting.

577
00:40:54,190 --> 00:40:54,590
Speaker 1: Yeah.

578
00:40:54,590 --> 00:40:55,670
Speaker 1: There's some things that.

579
00:40:55,670 --> 00:40:56,670
Speaker 1: Can you give an example?

580
00:40:57,150 --> 00:40:58,710
Speaker 1: Well, I can put it to you this way.

581
00:40:58,710 --> 00:40:59,470
Speaker 1: There is no.

582
00:41:01,550 --> 00:41:08,590
Speaker 1: The times that people learn the quickest and the fastest in adulthood is when there's massive moments of transformation.

583
00:41:09,390 --> 00:41:11,630
Speaker 1: I lost my job, I got divorced.

584
00:41:12,350 --> 00:41:13,550
Speaker 1: My marriage might end.

585
00:41:14,990 --> 00:41:16,110
Speaker 1: I just had kids.

586
00:41:16,590 --> 00:41:18,950
Speaker 1: Those are the places way outside the window tolerance.

587
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:19,830
Speaker 1: That's like overwhelmed.

588
00:41:19,830 --> 00:41:20,430
Speaker 1: Exactly.

589
00:41:20,430 --> 00:41:22,180
Speaker 1: And that's when transformation happens.

590
00:41:22,330 --> 00:41:22,970
Speaker 1: Because it's the.

591
00:41:23,290 --> 00:41:28,450
Speaker 1: It's the time when the sense of self can't really fucking pretend it is real.

592
00:41:28,450 --> 00:41:29,370
Speaker 1: It's breaking down.

593
00:41:29,450 --> 00:41:30,210
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

594
00:41:30,210 --> 00:41:33,890
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I am this guy who does this thing and everything's working out.

595
00:41:33,890 --> 00:41:34,850
Speaker 1: Nope, I am not.

596
00:41:34,850 --> 00:41:36,610
Speaker 1: My identity is like imploding in some way.

597
00:41:36,610 --> 00:41:37,090
Speaker 1: Exactly.

598
00:41:37,090 --> 00:41:37,930
Speaker 1: Grief or whatever.

599
00:41:37,930 --> 00:41:38,209
Speaker 1: Yeah.

600
00:41:38,209 --> 00:41:38,970
Speaker 1: And so there's.

601
00:41:39,210 --> 00:41:42,730
Speaker 1: Those are the moments where the most growth is possible.

602
00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:46,010
Speaker 1: I've even thought about it as on the business, which is like.

603
00:41:46,170 --> 00:41:48,650
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the person who did this best is kind of troddish.

604
00:41:49,130 --> 00:41:54,210
Speaker 1: Pema Chodron, she asked When Things Fall Apart is the name of the book, which is like, fantastic.

605
00:41:54,210 --> 00:41:58,490
Speaker 1: You're meeting the person at exactly the most opportune moment for transformation.

606
00:41:58,810 --> 00:41:59,370
Speaker 1: Yay.

607
00:42:01,530 --> 00:42:04,090
Speaker 1: So do you try and accelerate that process to some degree?

608
00:42:04,170 --> 00:42:06,650
Speaker 1: I never try to accelerate with other people.

609
00:42:07,370 --> 00:42:09,450
Speaker 1: I just never trying to accelerate something.

610
00:42:10,010 --> 00:42:11,970
Speaker 1: There's again, that deep trust.

611
00:42:11,970 --> 00:42:12,210
Speaker 1: Yeah.

612
00:42:12,210 --> 00:42:15,130
Speaker 1: It's hard to trust in their system, I guess.

613
00:42:15,130 --> 00:42:18,050
Speaker 1: It's like an acorn that it's like when it's ready to break open to some degree.

614
00:42:18,050 --> 00:42:18,570
Speaker 1: Exactly.

615
00:42:18,570 --> 00:42:19,010
Speaker 1: Yeah.

616
00:42:19,490 --> 00:42:24,170
Speaker 1: So there's also that sense of, you know, our work is intense.

617
00:42:24,170 --> 00:42:25,810
Speaker 1: The work that we do is intense.

618
00:42:25,810 --> 00:42:34,210
Speaker 1: And it's intense because it is jostling the sense of self so that we can say, oh, is this really who you are?

619
00:42:34,210 --> 00:42:35,490
Speaker 1: Is this really who you want to be?

620
00:42:35,490 --> 00:42:37,650
Speaker 1: Is this really how you want to be in the world?

621
00:42:39,410 --> 00:42:40,850
Speaker 1: And so there's just that.

622
00:42:41,250 --> 00:42:44,900
Speaker 1: So it's this incredible, incredibly fine balance on safety.

623
00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:48,820
Speaker 1: It sounds like what you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, in the same way that you talked about.

624
00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:52,820
Speaker 1: There's elation, but then there's background joy with safety.

625
00:42:55,300 --> 00:43:04,500
Speaker 1: It's almost like there's safety in a sense of self and then there's the background safety that is there no matter what is happening.

626
00:43:04,820 --> 00:43:06,980
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting.

627
00:43:07,220 --> 00:43:08,100
Speaker 1: So one of the things.

628
00:43:08,260 --> 00:43:15,610
Speaker 1: One of the things that we'll see is one of the ways that we train people that are working with us.

629
00:43:15,610 --> 00:43:24,770
Speaker 1: And that I'm never going to pretend that you're not safe so that person might feel like, oh, my God.

630
00:43:25,490 --> 00:43:28,290
Speaker 1: So that I'm not safe, as an example.

631
00:43:28,290 --> 00:43:37,330
Speaker 1: So a lot of coaching times, somebody will get up in front of me, in front of us 100 people, and they'll say something to the effect of like, oh, my God, I'm so anxious.

632
00:43:39,970 --> 00:43:43,250
Speaker 1: And I'll say, oh, cool, what's happening?

633
00:43:43,890 --> 00:43:47,410
Speaker 1: And they'll say, well, I have a hard time speaking in front of people.

634
00:43:47,810 --> 00:43:49,330
Speaker 1: And you're like, what are you doing right now?

635
00:43:49,330 --> 00:43:49,970
Speaker 1: Exactly.

636
00:43:51,649 --> 00:43:54,290
Speaker 1: Because if I believe their sense of safety.

637
00:43:55,010 --> 00:43:55,490
Speaker 1: Yeah.

638
00:43:55,570 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 1: If I believe that they aren't safe, then I am being codependent, being bought into their story.

639
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

640
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: I'm being codependent.

641
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 1: So a lot of what I'm doing is just actually disagreeing.

642
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: Bullshit.

643
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

644
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: Calling bullshit.

645
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: Which actually makes people feel really fucking safe, as it turns out.

646
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 1: You're almost, like, setting a boundary with their story.

647
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: Exactly.

648
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: I'm constantly setting the boundary with this story.

649
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 1: And most people think, oh, I want people to feel safe means I'm not going to set a boundary with their story.

650
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, it's true.

651
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: They did really hurt you.

652
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

653
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: Empathy.

654
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 1: Right.

655
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: And so it's right.

656
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: Oh, no.

657
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,240
Speaker 1: I can be with your emotional experience, but I'm not buying into your story.

658
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: And that actually, I think, makes people feel safe at a different level because it's an agreement with.

659
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 1: I know essentially, you're safe.

660
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: I know essentially that you know what to do, how to handle.

661
00:44:56,310 --> 00:45:04,230
Speaker 1: I know essentially that you can be at peace in your death, and I'm going to treat you as such.

662
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:09,830
Speaker 1: And then that invites that part to come out and lead.

663
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:12,910
Speaker 1: And then I follow that part because that part knows.

664
00:45:12,910 --> 00:45:14,550
Speaker 1: That's the part that knows the next step.

665
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:15,430
Speaker 1: Exactly.

666
00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:15,910
Speaker 1: Yeah.

667
00:45:16,310 --> 00:45:23,430
Speaker 1: There's like, an image that I have of, like, almost like the safety, or the ultimate safety is.

668
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: And there's a phrase that has been coming up for me a lot, which is this idea of, like, secure attachment with reality, which kind of comes back to, like, trusting reality more.

669
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

670
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: And it is that maybe the ultimate safety is, like, flowing with the river or, like, flowing with life and, like, trusting in that.

671
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: There's, like, safety in that, but there's not safety if you try.

672
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:52,860
Speaker 1: And as soon as you try and make something static, that's when there's no safety there.

673
00:45:52,940 --> 00:45:53,340
Speaker 1: Yeah.

674
00:45:53,340 --> 00:45:54,700
Speaker 1: That's really beautifully said.

675
00:45:55,980 --> 00:45:56,500
Speaker 1: I agree.

676
00:45:56,500 --> 00:46:01,020
Speaker 1: There is no safety in trying to make life stop.

677
00:46:01,660 --> 00:46:02,100
Speaker 1: Yeah.

678
00:46:02,100 --> 00:46:02,740
Speaker 1: Right, right.

679
00:46:02,740 --> 00:46:04,860
Speaker 1: But that's what we try and do a lot of the time.

680
00:46:05,180 --> 00:46:05,540
Speaker 1: Yeah.

681
00:46:05,540 --> 00:46:11,660
Speaker 1: If I'm only happy all the time, if I'm only in JHNA 8 all the time or whatever it is.

682
00:46:11,660 --> 00:46:16,100
Speaker 1: And when you try, and I mean in Jhana practice, the more that you try and stay there, the more it goes away.

683
00:46:16,100 --> 00:46:19,730
Speaker 1: So it's this beautiful feedback loop of like, oh, I really like this.

684
00:46:19,730 --> 00:46:20,810
Speaker 1: And then it kind of diminishes.

685
00:46:20,810 --> 00:46:28,210
Speaker 1: So it's kind of training you to actually, like, by letting go is how you get more of it, which is unlike life.

686
00:46:28,290 --> 00:46:28,970
Speaker 1: Or unlike.

687
00:46:28,970 --> 00:46:29,650
Speaker 1: Not unlike life.

688
00:46:29,650 --> 00:46:31,330
Speaker 1: It's like, unlike my conditioning.

689
00:46:31,490 --> 00:46:34,249
Speaker 1: Yes, it's unlike conditioning, but it's exactly how life works.

690
00:46:34,249 --> 00:46:34,970
Speaker 1: But it's how life works.

691
00:46:34,970 --> 00:46:35,290
Speaker 1: Yeah.

692
00:46:35,290 --> 00:46:35,690
Speaker 1: Yeah.

693
00:46:35,690 --> 00:46:36,930
Speaker 1: Emotionally, it's very similar.

694
00:46:37,010 --> 00:46:42,210
Speaker 1: Meaning that when you start to love your emotions, they start to change.

695
00:46:42,530 --> 00:46:47,190
Speaker 1: And then you go, oh, okay, if I love my emotions, they'll change.

696
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:48,190
Speaker 1: And they stop changing.

697
00:46:48,670 --> 00:46:51,470
Speaker 1: Because trying to get your emotions to change isn't loving them.

698
00:46:51,550 --> 00:46:54,790
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely been there.

699
00:46:54,790 --> 00:46:56,510
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's interesting around, like, the.

700
00:46:56,510 --> 00:47:04,030
Speaker 1: You know what you said about when someone is actually, like, really out of their window of tolerance is when the most transformation happens.

701
00:47:04,910 --> 00:47:05,390
Speaker 1: Yeah.

702
00:47:05,390 --> 00:47:06,110
Speaker 1: Sometimes.

703
00:47:06,430 --> 00:47:06,750
Speaker 1: Yeah.

704
00:47:06,750 --> 00:47:12,030
Speaker 1: There is like, a level where you can see somebody re traumatizing themselves and then.

705
00:47:12,030 --> 00:47:14,830
Speaker 1: But if they can find safety in that place where they're like.

706
00:47:14,830 --> 00:47:15,350
Speaker 1: That's right.

707
00:47:15,350 --> 00:47:16,180
Speaker 1: In groundlessness.

708
00:47:16,410 --> 00:47:16,890
Speaker 1: That's right.

709
00:47:17,130 --> 00:47:18,330
Speaker 1: That's the key.

710
00:47:18,810 --> 00:47:28,170
Speaker 1: So what we'll do is we'll create, like, deep containers of love so that people can feel safe going through something that they don't feel safe going through.

711
00:47:29,050 --> 00:47:29,930
Speaker 1: And that's the.

712
00:47:30,010 --> 00:47:31,370
Speaker 1: That's the way that we do it.

713
00:47:31,530 --> 00:47:43,130
Speaker 1: And it's amazing because, you know, you'll see people talk about, you know, oh, we can't do that with clients because that will make them feel unsafe.

714
00:47:43,870 --> 00:47:45,670
Speaker 1: And we think, okay, you're right.

715
00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:47,750
Speaker 1: We can't do that with clients to make them feel unsafe.

716
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:51,310
Speaker 1: How do we do that with clients in a way that makes them feel safe?

717
00:47:52,590 --> 00:47:53,710
Speaker 1: That's our thought process.

718
00:47:53,710 --> 00:47:57,790
Speaker 1: Because that deep sense of love, trust in them.

719
00:47:58,590 --> 00:47:59,990
Speaker 1: I'm not going to make them a victim.

720
00:47:59,990 --> 00:48:02,590
Speaker 1: I'm not going to make anybody I'm working with into a victim.

721
00:48:02,590 --> 00:48:03,070
Speaker 1: Yeah.

722
00:48:03,150 --> 00:48:03,950
Speaker 1: And for you?

723
00:48:04,830 --> 00:48:21,950
Speaker 1: Well, the way that you do that is by connecting to the part of them that is fundamentally safe the whole time and by, like, witnessing that and, I guess, reflecting that, like, safe and wise and leading them and always has been leading them and.

724
00:48:21,950 --> 00:48:22,870
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful.

725
00:48:22,870 --> 00:48:23,350
Speaker 1: Yeah.

726
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:28,430
Speaker 1: You were saying that, like, it's about allowing yourself to go down the river that's one way to say it.

727
00:48:28,430 --> 00:48:31,190
Speaker 1: The other way to say it is to recognize that you're fucking always going down the river.

728
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:37,630
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like grade four, but you're always going down the fucking river, as it turns out.

729
00:48:37,630 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 1: And so it's that recognition of that.

730
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: And so it goes back to your question about trust is how do you trust life?

731
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 1: It's like, how do you trust that fire's hot, it's fucking fire.

732
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: Like, life is life.

733
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: It does its thing.

734
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: Trusting it isn't to say that everything's going to work out well.

735
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 1: Trusting it is to know what you are in it.

736
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: And so I think that's.

737
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: That's where a lot of people.

738
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: The idea is like, oh, one day I'll have enough confidence that I can trust life, or one day that I'll have enough knowing or knowledge or wisdom or something to trust life.

739
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: And it's like, no, just fucking know what life is, and then know what you are, and everything works out really well.

740
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

741
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: That's beautiful.

742
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: I have a couple more selfish questions.

743
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

744
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: One.

745
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: So one, I guess, like, trap that I'm conscious of is someone who occasionally plays the role of teacher is the way in which that there is a risk of, like, creating that staticness, this, like, calcifying temporary structure which in some ways protects against my own defense and unraveling.

746
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: Yes.

747
00:49:47,279 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: How do you think about that and not fall into that trap as a blind spot and maybe even use teaching as a way to, like, increase the unraveling?

748
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,530
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.

749
00:49:57,850 --> 00:49:58,250
Speaker 1: Yeah.

750
00:49:58,250 --> 00:50:00,090
Speaker 1: So I got to see a lot of teachers.

751
00:50:00,570 --> 00:50:01,970
Speaker 1: I call it, like, they're mountaineering.

752
00:50:01,970 --> 00:50:07,930
Speaker 1: They're on the side of the cliff and they've stopped and they're helping everybody get this part exactly.

753
00:50:08,250 --> 00:50:08,890
Speaker 1: Which is.

754
00:50:10,410 --> 00:50:13,370
Speaker 1: I mean, I just want to say how fucking noble that is on some level.

755
00:50:13,370 --> 00:50:13,770
Speaker 1: Right?

756
00:50:13,770 --> 00:50:22,570
Speaker 1: Like, oh, you're actually sacrificing your own progression for the progression of others.

757
00:50:24,450 --> 00:50:25,970
Speaker 1: And it's completely unnecessary.

758
00:50:29,650 --> 00:50:33,570
Speaker 1: And it's usually done because of an identity of teacher.

759
00:50:34,210 --> 00:50:43,290
Speaker 1: One of the ways to do it is, like, what you're doing right now, which is constantly going out into the world and saying, here's where my foible is, right?

760
00:50:43,290 --> 00:50:51,410
Speaker 1: And there's a guy named Gay Hendricks who's been doing it for four years and just recently was telling me that's how he.

761
00:50:52,610 --> 00:50:56,850
Speaker 1: He did that is he basically was constantly vulnerable with his.

762
00:50:58,450 --> 00:50:59,970
Speaker 1: Where he was in the situation.

763
00:51:00,210 --> 00:51:03,090
Speaker 1: And that kept him, like, humble.

764
00:51:04,210 --> 00:51:10,930
Speaker 1: And I agree, and I've done that, and I do that Kind of more now with the past of these.

765
00:51:11,170 --> 00:51:13,570
Speaker 1: Like, this is how fucking weird it was.

766
00:51:13,650 --> 00:51:16,370
Speaker 1: I don't particularly do too much of where I am now.

767
00:51:16,850 --> 00:51:18,450
Speaker 1: And that's for two reasons.

768
00:51:18,450 --> 00:51:25,420
Speaker 1: One is that I noticed at the end depth of the work that I'm doing with people that if I.

769
00:51:25,660 --> 00:51:29,340
Speaker 1: If they're trapped in a corner and they're like, wait a second, they will.

770
00:51:29,740 --> 00:51:31,420
Speaker 1: Some of them will go and attack and.

771
00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:31,900
Speaker 1: And.

772
00:51:32,540 --> 00:51:33,020
Speaker 1: Yeah.

773
00:51:33,020 --> 00:51:34,220
Speaker 1: And it just slows.

774
00:51:34,220 --> 00:51:35,020
Speaker 1: Project onto you.

775
00:51:35,020 --> 00:51:35,300
Speaker 1: Yeah.

776
00:51:35,300 --> 00:51:36,540
Speaker 1: It slows down their process.

777
00:51:36,700 --> 00:51:37,260
Speaker 1: Okay.

778
00:51:37,420 --> 00:51:38,540
Speaker 1: So I will.

779
00:51:38,540 --> 00:51:39,100
Speaker 1: I will.

780
00:51:39,580 --> 00:51:46,220
Speaker 1: As I've worked with people longer and longer, I start opening that aspect of myself up to them so that they can see it and experience it.

781
00:51:46,580 --> 00:51:51,380
Speaker 1: But in the early stages, I don't really do that because I've noticed it doesn't serve anybody.

782
00:51:52,740 --> 00:52:06,420
Speaker 1: But secondly, I don't do it is because what I'm particularly going through is not entirely relatable for somebody who's been doing something for five years and I've been doing it for, whatever it is, 30.

783
00:52:08,740 --> 00:52:17,620
Speaker 1: And so I just find that it makes people feel not the way that I want them to see it, which is that they and I are the same.

784
00:52:20,900 --> 00:52:21,220
Speaker 1: But.

785
00:52:21,220 --> 00:52:29,700
Speaker 1: So here are some other things that I use to make sure that I get to stay in the game and I'm not playing on the outside.

786
00:52:29,860 --> 00:52:35,940
Speaker 1: So, one is that I'm really clear to never take responsibility for somebody else's growth.

787
00:52:36,660 --> 00:52:37,940
Speaker 1: And that's in two ways.

788
00:52:37,940 --> 00:52:41,270
Speaker 1: One is I'm not responsible for what they do in the workshop.

789
00:52:41,270 --> 00:52:42,550
Speaker 1: That's not my responsibility.

790
00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:46,870
Speaker 1: Also, if they have a massive transformation, it doesn't mean I'm fucking special.

791
00:52:47,670 --> 00:52:48,150
Speaker 1: Yes.

792
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:48,790
Speaker 1: Right.

793
00:52:49,110 --> 00:52:49,510
Speaker 1: So.

794
00:52:50,390 --> 00:52:51,510
Speaker 1: So that's one way.

795
00:52:51,510 --> 00:52:55,750
Speaker 1: So the other thing that I do that I'm really clear about is I'm like, if I.

796
00:52:56,069 --> 00:52:57,270
Speaker 1: It hasn't happened in years.

797
00:52:57,270 --> 00:53:06,550
Speaker 1: But that thought process of noticing I'm above anybody at any time for any reason, and that doesn't mean, yeah, I'm a better coach than a lot of folks, that's fine.

798
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: But being a better coach doesn't make me a better person, or I have more money than a lot of folks, doesn't matter.

799
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 1: Or that guy plays violin better than me, that's fine.

800
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: But if I notice that I'm actually putting myself above them a little bit as a human, or I'm thinking we're equals, or I'm thinking I'm less than comparison, all of those comparative things is, like, incredibly dangerous for a teacher in particular.

801
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

802
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: I listened to the podcast you did with Brett about that.

803
00:53:34,030 --> 00:53:34,230
Speaker 1: Yeah.

804
00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:41,830
Speaker 1: And that was one that, like, broke me open because I realized that I had been unconsciously putting myself above certain people.

805
00:53:41,830 --> 00:53:44,990
Speaker 1: And actually it was like a protection against being vulnerable.

806
00:53:44,990 --> 00:53:45,510
Speaker 1: Yeah.

807
00:53:45,510 --> 00:53:46,110
Speaker 1: And that.

808
00:53:46,830 --> 00:53:47,150
Speaker 1: Yeah.

809
00:53:47,150 --> 00:53:49,989
Speaker 1: I feel like, a little bit of tenderness in this moment.

810
00:53:49,989 --> 00:53:50,750
Speaker 1: It's just like.

811
00:53:51,070 --> 00:53:51,510
Speaker 1: And I.

812
00:53:51,510 --> 00:53:55,910
Speaker 1: And it's something that I have to kind of, again, try and remember or, like, notice if I'm so cool.

813
00:53:55,910 --> 00:53:56,630
Speaker 1: Hack on that.

814
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:58,990
Speaker 1: If you ever put yourself above somebody, what you'll.

815
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:05,240
Speaker 1: It is immediately a sign that there's an emotion that you are not allowing yourself.

816
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

817
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 1: Because that's the only reason we do it.

818
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,240
Speaker 1: That protection is we're protecting ourselves from an emotional experience in that moment.

819
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: So if you, like, if anybody listening feels like, oh, I notice I'm putting myself above and.

820
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: Or below or equal to somebody, that means there's an emotion that you're not allowing yourself to feel.

821
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: Let yourself feel that emotion.

822
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: And there's no more need for the.

823
00:54:27,950 --> 00:54:28,990
Speaker 1: That particular thing.

824
00:54:29,070 --> 00:54:31,550
Speaker 1: So that's a really important one.

825
00:54:32,670 --> 00:54:35,790
Speaker 1: Other things I do is I have teenage girls.

826
00:54:36,190 --> 00:54:36,670
Speaker 1: Yeah.

827
00:54:37,630 --> 00:54:41,870
Speaker 1: And they imagine they take the piss out of me all the time.

828
00:54:41,870 --> 00:54:42,790
Speaker 1: Which is lovely.

829
00:54:42,790 --> 00:54:44,110
Speaker 1: I have a wife who does the same.

830
00:54:44,670 --> 00:54:45,550
Speaker 1: That's really important.

831
00:54:46,350 --> 00:54:48,190
Speaker 1: What's the role of humor in this work?

832
00:54:48,350 --> 00:54:51,910
Speaker 1: As she seems, like, really important and, like, underrated.

833
00:54:51,910 --> 00:54:52,350
Speaker 1: Yeah.

834
00:54:52,350 --> 00:54:53,710
Speaker 1: I totally agree with that.

835
00:54:54,350 --> 00:54:57,710
Speaker 1: I mean, a laugh is a great emotional release as much as a cry.

836
00:54:57,790 --> 00:55:01,790
Speaker 1: And so that's part of what makes humor so great.

837
00:55:02,430 --> 00:55:08,750
Speaker 1: But taking this work seriously, it slows shit down too.

838
00:55:08,750 --> 00:55:09,190
Speaker 1: Seriously.

839
00:55:09,190 --> 00:55:09,909
Speaker 1: Slow shit down.

840
00:55:09,909 --> 00:55:13,030
Speaker 1: Like, taking it not seriously enough slows shit down too.

841
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:17,550
Speaker 1: But most Westerners take shit more seriously than is effective.

842
00:55:18,270 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: And so that's fun.

843
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: Also, like, making fun of myself on a regular basis, I think in a public situation, I think is a really lovely thing so that people can see that the actual work is that you take yourself less and less personally.

844
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: McCracken.

845
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

846
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: Burt McCracken.

847
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

848
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: So Burt McCracken is.

849
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: Because a lot of the work happens on the floor.

850
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: I will crouch down for everybody and a little tough to pair my.

851
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: The top of my butt would pop out.

852
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: So Ernie and Burt, if you remember the Sesame street.

853
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,240
Speaker 1: The name was Burt McCracken.

854
00:55:59,240 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

855
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: So there's just kind of this constant making fun of even the fuck you.

856
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: Joe Hudson is of fu.

857
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: Joe Hudson, which is the Twitter handle, is all about, like, not taking yourself too seriously.

858
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:16,240
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of humor in life.

859
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:23,760
Speaker 1: And I love this quote, and I think it was Voltaire who said, God is a comedian playing to an audience too Afraid to laugh.

860
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: Like, it is so humorous.

861
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: Like, the whole thing, the idea that, like, I'm a teacher and that you're a student is fucking funny.

862
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 1: Just, like.

863
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: Just that in itself is hilarious.

864
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:44,730
Speaker 1: And, you know, that we're not all the student and all the teacher, you know, so much of it.

865
00:56:46,010 --> 00:56:46,570
Speaker 1: So that.

866
00:56:46,570 --> 00:56:47,450
Speaker 1: That part of it.

867
00:56:47,450 --> 00:56:52,650
Speaker 1: And that's another thing that keeps me in that window of my own personal growth.

868
00:56:53,210 --> 00:56:58,890
Speaker 1: The other thing is just I see the hell that comes with usually when folks who are not.

869
00:57:00,170 --> 00:57:02,970
Speaker 1: Folks who are teaching, who are not growing.

870
00:57:03,450 --> 00:57:07,430
Speaker 1: You know, I used to have this idea, like, if you were a good teacher, you didn't make money.

871
00:57:07,750 --> 00:57:10,230
Speaker 1: If you were a good teacher, you didn't have a picture out there.

872
00:57:10,390 --> 00:57:13,590
Speaker 1: If you were a good teacher, you were doing everything for free.

873
00:57:13,990 --> 00:57:18,350
Speaker 1: You know, like, there's so many ideas of what I thought, like, made a great teacher.

874
00:57:18,350 --> 00:57:24,550
Speaker 1: They were all just projections of my own puritanistic attitude towards myself.

875
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:28,550
Speaker 1: And now there's just this.

876
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: This beautiful recognition that we're all just playing a part in something and that there's.

877
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: And I've played the role.

878
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: I've played the other role.

879
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: I'm playing this role now.

880
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 1: I see through the roles.

881
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: Like, the whole thing is just this thing.

882
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: And when you don't do that, when you think that you're important, when you think that you.

883
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: You know, the other day somebody came up to me and they're like, you don't know what you're talking about.

884
00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're right.

885
00:57:59,530 --> 00:58:03,090
Speaker 1: They're like, well, yeah, I made this shit up the same way.

886
00:58:03,090 --> 00:58:06,650
Speaker 1: Like, you know, somebody made up Amazon.

887
00:58:06,810 --> 00:58:07,770
Speaker 1: I made this up.

888
00:58:07,930 --> 00:58:09,290
Speaker 1: Like, I don't know.

889
00:58:09,370 --> 00:58:15,210
Speaker 1: And I absolutely will have epiphanies this year that will tell me that some of the things that I'm doing, I could be doing better.

890
00:58:15,610 --> 00:58:16,370
Speaker 1: Like, that's just.

891
00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:16,810
Speaker 1: Like, that.

892
00:58:16,970 --> 00:58:18,570
Speaker 1: What the fuck is there to defend?

893
00:58:19,130 --> 00:58:28,570
Speaker 1: And what I notice is that when teachers start defending and need to be in a position and not be questioned or any of that stuff, that's just misery.

894
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: It's just like, misery.

895
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: And I just personally don't want that misery.

896
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well said.

897
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: Well said.

898
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: So one more curiosity I have is, again, this is, like, coming from my experience.

899
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:44,799
Speaker 1: Oh, can I want to say one more thing about.

900
00:58:44,799 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: The other thing about it is that people who you're teaching want you to be that person.

901
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:55,590
Speaker 1: Like, the idea is that, like, you know, the teacher has gone fucking berserk, but it's not.

902
00:58:55,590 --> 00:58:57,070
Speaker 1: But the entire organism.

903
00:58:57,150 --> 00:59:00,670
Speaker 1: Organism goes berserk because there are people who will come to you.

904
00:59:00,670 --> 00:59:02,990
Speaker 1: And they're like, yeah, I want you to make my decisions for me.

905
00:59:02,990 --> 00:59:03,510
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

906
00:59:03,510 --> 00:59:04,950
Speaker 1: I want you to be an authority.

907
00:59:04,950 --> 00:59:09,790
Speaker 1: I want you to be the person who knows shit so that I can relinquish that.

908
00:59:10,430 --> 00:59:13,390
Speaker 1: And I don't have to stress about that and I don't have to worry about that.

909
00:59:13,630 --> 00:59:14,950
Speaker 1: Just make my decisions for me.

910
00:59:14,950 --> 00:59:15,870
Speaker 1: Just tell me how to be.

911
00:59:16,510 --> 00:59:18,830
Speaker 1: Just give me the ladder to get to the place.

912
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: It doesn't.

913
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: That completely disempowers the person, but they want that and they will put pressure on you to give it to them.

914
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: And so it's not a one sided thing.

915
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:35,719
Speaker 1: It's not just like a teacher went berserk that we get to see all the time.

916
00:59:35,719 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: It's like the entire organism went berserk.

917
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:46,530
Speaker 1: And so it's a really important thing when you're teaching to not allow that.

918
00:59:46,770 --> 00:59:47,130
Speaker 1: Yeah.

919
00:59:47,130 --> 00:59:53,290
Speaker 1: And a way to break that like spell is I found again, forget all the time.

920
00:59:53,290 --> 01:00:00,410
Speaker 1: But like, if I'm not fully taking risk, like radical responsibility for like the adventure of life is how I frame it.

921
01:00:00,410 --> 01:00:03,690
Speaker 1: But it's like there's a way in which if that's happening, I'd like.

922
01:00:03,690 --> 01:00:05,890
Speaker 1: It was kind of like the hiring thing we talked about yesterday.

923
01:00:06,690 --> 01:00:07,370
Speaker 1: I would be.

924
01:00:07,370 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: Because I hired a certain person, I'm like actually responsible for creating the conditions that are like, yeah.

925
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: Causing challenge or suffering.

926
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's that.

927
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 1: There's also another trap that happens which is like the codependent trap.

928
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 1: You're a teacher and somebody shows up and they're like, I can make your life easier.

929
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 1: Oh, it's the, oh yeah, you could.

930
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, please make my life easier.

931
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: And then it's like kind of a codependent behavior that the teacher has which is like, yeah, I don't want to do that.

932
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: You could do that.

933
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: And now I depend on you.

934
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 1: And now I'm scared to lose you.

935
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: And now I'm.

936
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 1: I'm treating you with a different way than I'm treating everybody else.

937
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 1: And now you're the person between me and everybody else.

938
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 1: And now there's a hierarchy.

939
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: And now there's a lot.

940
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 1: There's a lot of.

941
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 1: There's also, oh, wow.

942
01:00:56,360 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: I am overwhelmed with the bigness of what the fuck is going on.

943
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: Like I have 120 people whose lives are changing in front of me in a fucking three day weekend.

944
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: That's fucking big.

945
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 1: I don't want to feel that.

946
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,070
Speaker 1: That's a lot of immensity.

947
01:01:11,070 --> 01:01:11,990
Speaker 1: That's a lot of joy.

948
01:01:11,990 --> 01:01:16,030
Speaker 1: That's a lot of like excitement that I have to process through my body.

949
01:01:16,590 --> 01:01:17,710
Speaker 1: I don't want to.

950
01:01:18,350 --> 01:01:20,590
Speaker 1: So, oh, here's a way out.

951
01:01:20,590 --> 01:01:21,550
Speaker 1: I can have sex with you.

952
01:01:21,550 --> 01:01:23,630
Speaker 1: Or here's a way out, I can be drunk on power.

953
01:01:24,510 --> 01:01:29,390
Speaker 1: So there's also this place that you have to really accept.

954
01:01:30,270 --> 01:01:31,070
Speaker 1: You have to own.

955
01:01:32,270 --> 01:01:35,550
Speaker 1: You have to own like the bigness of what you're doing.

956
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because so many people would hear that as arrogance.

957
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 1: But in the Jewish tradition, humility, the word for humility is to take your God given place in the world.

958
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: That is humility.

959
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 1: Humility comes from shemut, which is like ground.

960
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 1: There's like a groundedness as well.

961
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: It has to be.

962
01:01:55,800 --> 01:02:08,580
Speaker 1: So it's like actually allowing yourself to be that big is interestingly as much of a destruction to the ego because it's like there's just less of you that your boundaries have gotten.

963
01:02:08,900 --> 01:02:13,300
Speaker 1: Your distinction between you and everything else has fallen away a little bit more.

964
01:02:13,540 --> 01:02:22,180
Speaker 1: And so there is that aspect too that I think is really underseen because people are like.

965
01:02:22,980 --> 01:02:36,100
Speaker 1: Because there's a certain kind of arrogance, the arrogance of avoidance that totally screws you as a teacher or as a CEO or as any kind of leader.

966
01:02:36,500 --> 01:02:37,540
Speaker 1: Arrogance of humility.

967
01:02:37,860 --> 01:02:53,140
Speaker 1: But there's another kind of arrogance which is like, yeah, I'm doing this is fucking happening and I'm going to feel all those emotions, which allows you to actually be more humble and actually be of more service.

968
01:02:53,780 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 1: And an example that I think about this is with CEOs.

969
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: A lot of times when I'm working with a CEO, I will walk them through this visualization of like, you know, everybody woke up this morning and nobody said, I hope the CEO thinks I did a shitty job.

970
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 1: You're the most talked about person in the fucking organization.

971
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: As it turns out, when you walk in, people are self conscious.

972
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: They're wondering if you think good of them or bad of them when they spend more time on a presentation to you than they would with anybody else.

973
01:03:22,150 --> 01:03:26,150
Speaker 1: Like I walk them through this thing where they have to actually fucking own the power that they have.

974
01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:29,910
Speaker 1: It's incredibly fucking uncomfortable for people to feel that.

975
01:03:30,950 --> 01:03:35,670
Speaker 1: And then when they feel that though, there's so much more humility in the way that they behave.

976
01:03:37,350 --> 01:03:45,030
Speaker 1: It's them trying not to feel that which creates this, this armor that creates this narcissism.

977
01:03:46,390 --> 01:03:51,590
Speaker 1: A great definition of narcissism is the inability to feel emotions.

978
01:03:53,590 --> 01:04:03,749
Speaker 1: And so what I notice is that when people aren't feeling what they're doing, then it's far easier for them to be narcissistic.

979
01:04:03,749 --> 01:04:09,510
Speaker 1: And you're defining narcissism as like a fluid state rather than like a fixed trait.

980
01:04:09,750 --> 01:04:10,630
Speaker 1: Intellectually.

981
01:04:10,710 --> 01:04:14,910
Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, intellectually I would say narcissistic.

982
01:04:14,910 --> 01:04:16,070
Speaker 1: We were all narcissistic.

983
01:04:16,070 --> 01:04:16,390
Speaker 1: Right.

984
01:04:16,470 --> 01:04:19,270
Speaker 1: We were all on that spectrum somewhere.

985
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: Okay.

986
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about like narcissistic personality disorder, but I'm saying on an intellectual level, narcissism is thinking that you're better and or worse than people.

987
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

988
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: On a heart level, it's just not allowing yourself to feel all the emotional experiences.

989
01:04:35,519 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: Got it.

990
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 1: On a nervous system level, it's constantly descending from an attack which is.

991
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, these are all, they're so fluid.

992
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:45,790
Speaker 1: Like all of these kind of intermingles.

993
01:04:46,100 --> 01:04:46,420
Speaker 1: Yeah.

994
01:04:46,900 --> 01:04:50,580
Speaker 1: Okay, I have one more question before kind of going into like some rapid fire questions.

995
01:04:50,580 --> 01:04:50,980
Speaker 1: Yeah.

996
01:04:51,940 --> 01:05:11,540
Speaker 1: I guess the best way to ask this is like, what do you think of the limits of the work that we can do like on our own, like in our own kind of like self contained space versus because it seems to me like there are some aspects of this work that require a relational dynamic.

997
01:05:12,220 --> 01:05:14,460
Speaker 1: And so I've done a lot of self guided breath work.

998
01:05:14,780 --> 01:05:19,740
Speaker 1: A lot of the teachers, the things that you teach in the experiments are self guided.

999
01:05:20,140 --> 01:05:23,180
Speaker 1: But what are the limits to that work?

1000
01:05:23,340 --> 01:05:26,940
Speaker 1: Are there certain things that need to be done in relationship?

1001
01:05:27,180 --> 01:05:29,580
Speaker 1: I mean all of our coursework is done in relationship.

1002
01:05:29,660 --> 01:05:36,780
Speaker 1: Everything that I put out into the world for free is experiments people can run on their own generally.

1003
01:05:40,140 --> 01:05:44,660
Speaker 1: I mean, I do that because the like that's the cheaper work.

1004
01:05:44,660 --> 01:05:48,620
Speaker 1: The cheaper work is the work that you do on your own, the cheaper.

1005
01:05:48,620 --> 01:05:50,300
Speaker 1: Just meaning that it's less efficient.

1006
01:05:50,940 --> 01:05:55,020
Speaker 1: It's like the cheap gas instead of the really good fuel, the rocket fuel.

1007
01:05:55,020 --> 01:05:58,620
Speaker 1: And so relational work, there's some work that you can only do on your own.

1008
01:05:58,620 --> 01:06:05,420
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, there's just some like, you know, a lot of the work that we'll do with somebody will feel like meditation to a meditator.

1009
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: Like, oh, it's like I'm meditating with somebody is something that I hear dozens of times through a course.

1010
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 1: But there's a way of meditation on your own that you can only do on your own.

1011
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 1: And it teaches you something that nothing else in the world can teach you.

1012
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: It's really important work.

1013
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: There's similarly certain stuff that you're only going to get working with other people.

1014
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:39,530
Speaker 1: You can sit in a meditation for 25 years and you're not going to come out and there's going to be traumas that are going to be unhealed in that experience.

1015
01:06:40,810 --> 01:06:46,010
Speaker 1: So the relationship part is just really good.

1016
01:06:46,090 --> 01:06:53,610
Speaker 1: But to me, there's a more important thing which is a matter of efficiency and a matter of what you can actually accomplish.

1017
01:06:53,850 --> 01:07:04,180
Speaker 1: Meaning I put somebody, a modern person, in a room by themselves and say the meditator, to do these exercises, they have to have the discipline to fucking finish them.

1018
01:07:05,300 --> 01:07:10,540
Speaker 1: Discipline's not the word I would use, but they have to finish them.

1019
01:07:10,540 --> 01:07:11,420
Speaker 1: Inspiration, maybe.

1020
01:07:11,420 --> 01:07:11,780
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1021
01:07:12,420 --> 01:07:15,700
Speaker 1: And discipline is like too hard of a statement.

1022
01:07:16,020 --> 01:07:18,820
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just like enough desire to finish them.

1023
01:07:21,460 --> 01:07:23,220
Speaker 1: But if you're doing it with somebody, it's really easy.

1024
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: And so I love working out.

1025
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: It's a lot easier for me to work out with somebody than it is to work out without somebody.

1026
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 1: So to me, there's just an efficiency factor of working with somebody.

1027
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 1: Working in a group, you just get the fucking shit done.

1028
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 1: We're at this off site with a whole bunch of creators right now.

1029
01:07:49,210 --> 01:07:56,490
Speaker 1: I love thinking about my business, but because I'm here, I am thinking about my business instead of thinking in my business.

1030
01:07:56,810 --> 01:07:57,450
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.

1031
01:07:57,690 --> 01:07:58,090
Speaker 1: And.

1032
01:07:58,170 --> 01:08:00,690
Speaker 1: And it's because we have other people to do it.

1033
01:08:00,690 --> 01:08:01,370
Speaker 1: That shared contact.

1034
01:08:01,370 --> 01:08:13,370
Speaker 1: And there's also, I think of it as almost like learning nervous system capacity when you're in that relational field that like, I have an ability to kind of go deeper and feel safer when there's other people that are kind of like.

1035
01:08:13,370 --> 01:08:14,980
Speaker 1: Yeah, holding that for me.

1036
01:08:15,370 --> 01:08:15,850
Speaker 1: Totally agree.

1037
01:08:16,330 --> 01:08:16,649
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1038
01:08:16,649 --> 01:08:18,649
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of benefits of doing the work with people.

1039
01:08:19,450 --> 01:08:25,770
Speaker 1: And almost all of it you can do, and almost all of it is quicker with people.

1040
01:08:26,170 --> 01:08:27,850
Speaker 1: And almost all of it you can do by yourself.

1041
01:08:28,090 --> 01:08:30,410
Speaker 1: Not all of it, but almost all that you can do by yourself.

1042
01:08:30,410 --> 01:08:32,729
Speaker 1: And a lot of that is slower.

1043
01:08:32,970 --> 01:08:36,410
Speaker 1: Okay, I have a few rapid fire questions I've saved.

1044
01:08:36,410 --> 01:08:36,890
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1045
01:08:36,890 --> 01:08:37,770
Speaker 1: How's your sound?

1046
01:08:38,090 --> 01:08:38,810
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.

1047
01:08:39,689 --> 01:08:41,569
Speaker 1: Why might it be helpful to get naked?

1048
01:08:41,569 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: When in conflict with your partner, any action of vulnerability increases, decreases the power struggle.

1049
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 1: And so being naked with somebody is an act of vulnerability.

1050
01:08:55,920 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 1: What is the most controversial, outrageous experiment you've carried out for yourself or prescribed to someone?

1051
01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:14,170
Speaker 1: Probably the most outrageous experiment that I did on societal standards would be how to enjoy masturbation as much as possible.

1052
01:09:15,770 --> 01:09:22,569
Speaker 1: Like, how to enjoy the experience of, like, get peak pleasure out of masturbation from the very beginning to the very end.

1053
01:09:23,050 --> 01:09:23,529
Speaker 1: Nice.

1054
01:09:23,689 --> 01:09:24,050
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1055
01:09:24,050 --> 01:09:27,370
Speaker 1: And I use it typically to help people through porn addiction.

1056
01:09:28,729 --> 01:09:29,770
Speaker 1: What experiment.

1057
01:09:31,609 --> 01:09:37,490
Speaker 1: What experiment might you prescribe to someone who notices a lack of aliveness or vitality in their life.

1058
01:09:37,890 --> 01:09:38,210
Speaker 1: Move.

1059
01:09:38,210 --> 01:09:38,770
Speaker 1: Anger.

1060
01:09:39,330 --> 01:09:44,210
Speaker 1: If you had to distill the essence of what you teach in the world into a sentence or two, what would that be?

1061
01:09:48,290 --> 01:09:49,330
Speaker 1: How to love yourself.

1062
01:09:50,529 --> 01:09:52,370
Speaker 1: What does success mean to you?

1063
01:09:53,090 --> 01:09:54,370
Speaker 1: More people loving themselves.

1064
01:09:57,410 --> 01:09:58,050
Speaker 1: Beautiful.

1065
01:09:58,690 --> 01:10:00,210
Speaker 1: Well, this has been a pleasure, Jay.

1066
01:10:00,210 --> 01:10:00,930
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

1067
01:10:01,170 --> 01:10:02,610
Speaker 1: Always good to be with you, Johnny.

1068
01:10:02,610 --> 01:10:03,010
Speaker 1: I am.

1069
01:10:03,220 --> 01:10:07,220
Speaker 1: For folks who are curious to go deeper into the actual work we've been talking about.

1070
01:10:07,380 --> 01:10:09,620
Speaker 1: What are the best places you would go?

1071
01:10:09,620 --> 01:10:14,220
Speaker 1: Best thing to do is go to the Art of Accomplishment website and sign up for the mailing list.

1072
01:10:14,220 --> 01:10:18,180
Speaker 1: If you sign up for the mailing list, you'll find out where all the free workshops are.

1073
01:10:18,340 --> 01:10:19,540
Speaker 1: You'll find out.

1074
01:10:19,780 --> 01:10:22,180
Speaker 1: You'll be on the newsletter to hear about the podcasts.

1075
01:10:22,820 --> 01:10:26,260
Speaker 1: You'll know where the Twitter is, you'll know where the YouTube is.

1076
01:10:28,420 --> 01:10:34,640
Speaker 1: And then there's the kind of for the public online coaching that I do so you can participate in that.

1077
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 1: And then there's a whole bunch of experiments that get opened up to you.

1078
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 1: So that's the absolute best way to do it.

1079
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 1: Great.

1080
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:45,960
Speaker 1: And that's artofaccomp.com artofaccomplishment.com yeah.

1081
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:46,560
Speaker 1: Amazing.

1082
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 1: So I'd like to close with a line from Rilke.

1083
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 1: He said, try to love the questions themselves and live them now.

1084
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 1: Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live your way into the answer.

1085
01:10:59,210 --> 01:11:01,770
Speaker 1: With that in mind, I would just take out the word try.

1086
01:11:04,650 --> 01:11:11,210
Speaker 1: You're the only person I've interviewed that Trex Rilke, usually he gets it right.

1087
01:11:14,010 --> 01:11:14,849
Speaker 1: He was German.

1088
01:11:14,849 --> 01:11:16,090
Speaker 1: There's a little try in there.

1089
01:11:19,530 --> 01:11:22,650
Speaker 1: I can say that because German, that's great.

1090
01:11:22,810 --> 01:11:24,970
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I still want to ask a question.

1091
01:11:25,510 --> 01:11:26,510
Speaker 1: I'm assuming he was German.

1092
01:11:26,510 --> 01:11:27,030
Speaker 1: I think he is.

1093
01:11:27,030 --> 01:11:27,630
Speaker 1: He is, yeah.

1094
01:11:27,630 --> 01:11:28,230
Speaker 1: He's German.

1095
01:11:28,470 --> 01:11:33,030
Speaker 1: What is the question that is most alive in your consciousness right now?

1096
01:11:33,350 --> 01:11:36,390
Speaker 1: And what question might you leave other listeners with?

1097
01:11:36,390 --> 01:11:47,350
Speaker 1: The question that's in my mind right now is what part of our business do we have to call to allow it to grow?

1098
01:11:49,590 --> 01:11:54,100
Speaker 1: The question that is in, we just did a business workshop.

1099
01:11:54,100 --> 01:12:10,820
Speaker 1: Then that would be question I would leave others with is what's the part of you that has not ever changed and what is it like to get in direct contact with that part of yourself?

1100
01:12:12,020 --> 01:12:12,660
Speaker 1: Beautiful.

1101
01:12:12,740 --> 01:12:13,860
Speaker 1: We will wrap with that.

1102
01:12:14,500 --> 01:12:14,860
Speaker 1: Cool.

1103
01:12:14,860 --> 01:12:15,540
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jay.

1104
01:12:15,540 --> 01:12:16,340
Speaker 1: Thank you, man.

1105
01:12:18,190 --> 01:12:19,710
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this conversation.

1106
01:12:20,430 --> 01:12:28,110
Speaker 1: It would mean a lot to me if you could take a few seconds to open up your podcast app and give curious humans a shiny five star rating.

1107
01:12:29,230 --> 01:12:33,950
Speaker 1: This not only helps more people to find it, but it will help me to get more awesome guests in the future.

1108
01:12:34,750 --> 01:12:42,670
Speaker 1: And if you're not already subscribed, then the Curious Humans newsletter is where I share monthly morsels of interestingness and podcast updates.

1109
01:12:43,290 --> 01:12:45,690
Speaker 1: You can sign up for that at JONY Life.

1110
01:12:46,010 --> 01:12:48,810
Speaker 1: That's J O n y Life.

1111
01:12:49,610 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, Sam.