WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.210 --> 00:00:02.110 Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Equine Assisted World. 00:00:02.140 --> 00:00:05.260 I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times best selling 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.330 author of The Horse Boy, The Long Ride Home, and The Healing Land. 00:00:08.379 --> 00:00:11.889 Before I jump in with today's guest, I just want to say a huge 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.139 thank you to you, our audience, for helping to make this happen. 00:00:15.229 --> 00:00:15.999 I have a request. 00:00:16.520 --> 00:00:22.009 If you like what we do, please like, subscribe, tell a friend. 00:00:22.579 --> 00:00:24.319 It really helps us get this work done. 00:00:24.529 --> 00:00:27.299 As you might know from my books, I'm an autism dad. 00:00:27.805 --> 00:00:30.645 And over the last 20 years, we've developed several 00:00:31.345 --> 00:00:35.285 equine assisted, neuroscience backed certification programs. 00:00:35.884 --> 00:00:38.485 If you'd like to find out more about them, go to newtrailslearning. 00:00:40.664 --> 00:00:40.814 com. 00:00:41.065 --> 00:00:43.665 So without further ado, let's meet today's guest. 00:00:47.599 --> 00:00:49.849 Welcome back to Equine Assisted World. 00:00:49.899 --> 00:00:54.589 With me today, . I've got Catherine Ward and her daughter, Nicole Jones, 00:00:54.589 --> 00:01:00.799 who together run a pioneering place in Houston, Texas called One Acre Farm 00:01:01.319 --> 00:01:03.089 where they do all kinds of miracles. 00:01:03.189 --> 00:01:10.179 So the reason why I want them on the show is a lot of us think of equine 00:01:10.179 --> 00:01:15.410 assisted stuff happening in large rural areas where we have a lot of space. 00:01:16.310 --> 00:01:20.840 One acre farm is just that, and it's within the city limits of Houston, 00:01:21.140 --> 00:01:24.830 and it's a bit of a groundbreaking concept and it shows what really 00:01:24.830 --> 00:01:27.440 can be done with very little. 00:01:27.440 --> 00:01:29.750 So any of you think, well, I haven't got enough space. 00:01:30.289 --> 00:01:36.679 You kind of need to hear a little bit how Catherine and Nicole maximize what 00:01:36.679 --> 00:01:41.330 they've got and achieve results that are frankly, quite breathtaking with kids. 00:01:41.330 --> 00:01:43.190 So welcome to the show. 00:01:43.259 --> 00:01:47.460 Catherine and Nicole, please tell us who you are and what you do. 00:01:48.824 --> 00:01:50.595 Catherine Ward: Hey, Robert, thank you for having us. 00:01:50.595 --> 00:01:52.905 We're, we're quite honored and excited to be with you. 00:01:53.455 --> 00:01:54.565 I'm Catherine Ward. 00:01:54.615 --> 00:01:58.544 We live about 35 miles north of Houston in Porter. 00:01:58.884 --> 00:02:00.654 I own and run one acre farm. 00:02:01.779 --> 00:02:05.049 And it started probably in 1999. 00:02:05.409 --> 00:02:09.239 Our very first class was how to Raise Chickens in Your Backyard. 00:02:09.609 --> 00:02:15.009 Because of our location where we are while we're kind of rural, we're set in a 00:02:15.009 --> 00:02:20.160 very urban or very suburbanite type area. 00:02:20.460 --> 00:02:25.650 And so there are a lot of, a lot of women that live in neighborhoods that wanna have 00:02:25.770 --> 00:02:27.390 four or five chickens in their backyard. 00:02:27.570 --> 00:02:30.750 And so that was our, our goal to kind of kind of get started there. 00:02:31.179 --> 00:02:35.190 Then we started classes for Homeschoolers and Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. 00:02:35.559 --> 00:02:42.029 And then fast forward to from 1999 to 2016 when we met you and then 00:02:42.079 --> 00:02:46.010 got our certification in Horse Boy Method and Movement Method and 00:02:46.010 --> 00:02:47.929 added that to all of our programs. 00:02:48.260 --> 00:02:55.390 And then fast forward to 2021 and we opened an outdoor farm school. 00:02:55.720 --> 00:02:59.700 And so now with all of the programs that we have from kids aren't in 00:02:59.700 --> 00:03:04.590 play, our Sensory Saturday, our private autism sessions and our 00:03:04.590 --> 00:03:08.580 elementary farm school and our early childhood farm school, we service 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:11.850 about a hundred to 150 kids a month. 00:03:13.440 --> 00:03:14.160 Rupert Isaacson: Impressive. 00:03:14.950 --> 00:03:15.519 Thanks. 00:03:15.829 --> 00:03:16.249 Okay. 00:03:16.249 --> 00:03:18.259 Nicole, who are you? 00:03:18.259 --> 00:03:18.319 Yeah. 00:03:18.889 --> 00:03:19.189 In this 00:03:19.269 --> 00:03:22.209 Nicole Jones: so I'm obviously a daughter of Catherine. 00:03:22.239 --> 00:03:26.589 I'm a mom of two and my two kids come with me to the farm school that we run. 00:03:26.939 --> 00:03:28.499 I was a horsey kid. 00:03:28.619 --> 00:03:30.149 I was homeschooled all the way through. 00:03:30.149 --> 00:03:32.689 So, I was homeschooled on a farm. 00:03:32.749 --> 00:03:35.989 Very similar to how a lot of the kids that we work with today are 00:03:35.989 --> 00:03:40.069 being schooled and had a lot of interaction with animals growing up. 00:03:40.069 --> 00:03:41.539 A lot of autonomy to my day. 00:03:41.839 --> 00:03:45.529 A lot of movement involved in my homeschooling and education growing up. 00:03:45.829 --> 00:03:50.599 And so currently I am the early childhood teacher at this school. 00:03:50.839 --> 00:03:52.579 And then also Catherine. 00:03:52.579 --> 00:03:55.529 I co-create curriculum together for things that we're doing on 00:03:55.529 --> 00:03:58.979 the farm and for other people who are interested in, in curriculum. 00:03:59.289 --> 00:04:03.639 But a lot of what got us, or at least got me to where we are with the school 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:05.829 now was the homeschooling background. 00:04:06.129 --> 00:04:07.689 A lot of the horsey stuff growing up. 00:04:08.019 --> 00:04:12.079 And then I was also an a, b, a therapist early on in my, teaching 00:04:12.079 --> 00:04:13.399 days I wanted to become a teacher. 00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:18.399 I got into a BA therapy but very quickly realized it didn't sit right with me. 00:04:18.459 --> 00:04:22.759 I was there for about two years and just felt like there was something missing. 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:26.209 I, I loved getting to have the relationship with children and 00:04:26.209 --> 00:04:28.909 being able to be one-on-one with kids and grow that relationship. 00:04:29.209 --> 00:04:33.819 But being a 19, 20, 20 1-year-old teacher, I was just still not knowing 00:04:33.819 --> 00:04:35.439 much and not being in the field very long. 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:38.409 It just wasn't sitting right with my spirit, the things that I was being 00:04:38.409 --> 00:04:44.059 told to do, and feeling like the, the happiness of the children and the 00:04:44.059 --> 00:04:47.999 joy of early childhood education was just taken out of what we were doing. 00:04:47.999 --> 00:04:50.159 And it all was very clinical. 00:04:50.209 --> 00:04:53.419 It, it didn't have this while we were building a relationship with kids. 00:04:53.419 --> 00:04:55.519 It just didn't have that, that. 00:04:55.879 --> 00:04:57.829 Fun aspect you would expect. 00:04:57.829 --> 00:05:02.799 And you know, we, I was working with children who were nonverbal who were poop 00:05:02.889 --> 00:05:06.409 smears, eating their poop all the way, you know, that might be a morning student. 00:05:06.409 --> 00:05:09.749 And then an after Stu afternoon student was someone who could read 00:05:09.749 --> 00:05:11.309 and write and talking verbally. 00:05:11.309 --> 00:05:14.339 And so putting those two kids in the same class together, it was 00:05:14.339 --> 00:05:16.079 just, there was a lot of disconnect. 00:05:16.109 --> 00:05:20.539 And didn't, although I was working for a very highly regarded a BA 00:05:20.539 --> 00:05:23.989 clinic, I just felt like it just, it wasn't sitting right with me. 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:27.529 And so not too long in the field and just feeling like this isn't 00:05:27.529 --> 00:05:28.819 right, I need to find something else. 00:05:29.129 --> 00:05:33.779 I found Montessori education very happenstance, and so I was 00:05:33.849 --> 00:05:38.519 completing my college observation time in different, you have to go to 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:40.109 different schools and observe classes. 00:05:40.499 --> 00:05:43.289 And so I picked a Montessori school to go see 'cause I just never heard of, 00:05:43.469 --> 00:05:47.999 heard of it and wanted to see what it was about and walked in and was just, in 00:05:47.999 --> 00:05:50.549 10 minutes I was like, this, this is it. 00:05:50.549 --> 00:05:51.539 This was the thing. 00:05:51.779 --> 00:05:55.499 It was so similar to how I was homeschooled as far as the kids 00:05:55.499 --> 00:05:57.539 could walk around the class and pick things they wanted to do. 00:05:57.539 --> 00:05:58.919 There was interest led learning. 00:05:58.919 --> 00:06:01.259 They could move around, they could go outdoors. 00:06:01.469 --> 00:06:05.579 They had this open space to their day of, all right, I can pick 00:06:05.579 --> 00:06:06.479 and choose what I want to do. 00:06:06.479 --> 00:06:10.289 And the teachers would pop in and out as they were needed and help direct the kids. 00:06:10.289 --> 00:06:13.259 But it was, they had so much autonomy to what they were able to do. 00:06:14.084 --> 00:06:18.494 So, that night I went home, decided I was gonna get training in Montessori. 00:06:18.494 --> 00:06:20.144 I got certified the very next year. 00:06:20.144 --> 00:06:23.684 I went through my one year internship and 500 training hours 00:06:23.684 --> 00:06:24.974 or whatever, and got that done. 00:06:25.064 --> 00:06:27.254 And then went into Montessori education. 00:06:27.654 --> 00:06:32.894 A couple years into that is when Catherine and I went to temple Grandin's speech 00:06:33.074 --> 00:06:38.864 and found you and then added this whole, whole other aspect added to, oh my gosh. 00:06:39.094 --> 00:06:42.754 Here's where, you know, while Montessori education was originally based in 00:06:42.754 --> 00:06:46.294 helping kids with special needs, there's this whole other aspect of the science 00:06:46.294 --> 00:06:47.854 I didn't understand, and that Dr. 00:06:47.854 --> 00:06:51.544 Montessori was also trying to understand and, you know, the neuro 00:06:51.624 --> 00:06:54.084 neuro pathways that are formed and all of that with movement. 00:06:54.084 --> 00:06:57.954 Anyway, so we had all that added to it, and then COVID happened, you know, 00:06:57.954 --> 00:07:02.354 we were doing some, we were doing some sessions with families, but then 00:07:02.354 --> 00:07:06.194 COVID happened and a lot changed with everybody, and Catherine and I decided 00:07:06.504 --> 00:07:09.774 you know, this might be the time we want to start something at one acre farm. 00:07:09.774 --> 00:07:10.494 And we did that. 00:07:10.494 --> 00:07:12.204 So I left my Montessori teaching job. 00:07:12.484 --> 00:07:15.894 We went into this together and it's been really great since then. 00:07:15.954 --> 00:07:18.204 We just, we just keep on trucking. 00:07:19.014 --> 00:07:19.284 Right. 00:07:19.289 --> 00:07:19.469 So you, 00:07:19.974 --> 00:07:24.974 Rupert Isaacson: you started Nicole with special ed and as in America, as we 00:07:24.974 --> 00:07:29.774 know, a lot of people are funneled into applied behavioral analysis, A, b, A, and. 00:07:30.419 --> 00:07:33.359 You know, like many of us, you found it restrictive. 00:07:33.689 --> 00:07:33.869 Catherine Ward: Yeah. 00:07:34.109 --> 00:07:36.369 Rupert Isaacson: Coercive not joyful. 00:07:36.609 --> 00:07:41.979 Then you found Montessori which is much closer in line with the 00:07:43.749 --> 00:07:46.209 autonomy you've used that word. 00:07:46.209 --> 00:07:47.589 I want to return to that word. 00:07:47.594 --> 00:07:51.719 And why is autonomy important that you'd experience, you know, homeschooling 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:54.599 or being homeschooled in nature? 00:07:54.659 --> 00:07:57.260 It's interesting that you were homeschooled because you know, 00:07:57.409 --> 00:08:02.840 Catherine, you have been a teacher in the regular school system, right? 00:08:02.960 --> 00:08:03.050 Yes. 00:08:03.260 --> 00:08:07.099 So can you talk us a little bit through your background and career? 00:08:07.670 --> 00:08:11.270 How did you as a regular teacher then decide, well, 00:08:11.270 --> 00:08:12.349 actually I want to homeschool. 00:08:12.770 --> 00:08:17.599 And then how have you brought those two things together into one acre farm 00:08:17.780 --> 00:08:20.749 where you do have a school structure, but of course you're now using I. 00:08:21.515 --> 00:08:25.295 Montessori movement method and other modalities, you know, altogether. 00:08:25.295 --> 00:08:27.815 Can you just talk us through that trajectory, please? 00:08:28.385 --> 00:08:28.835 Catherine Ward: Sure. 00:08:29.215 --> 00:08:31.135 I could, let me go back a little bit. 00:08:31.215 --> 00:08:34.155 So I was born in Texas, but raised in Louisiana. 00:08:34.395 --> 00:08:38.785 My mom remarried when I was very young, and it was a very unique upbringing 00:08:38.785 --> 00:08:42.715 because my, my father, my stepfather was one of the richest men in town. 00:08:42.715 --> 00:08:49.555 So we lived in a huge mansion, but in our back acreage was all this livestock. 00:08:49.555 --> 00:08:54.175 So I was kind of raised in a farm, like farm lifestyle. 00:08:54.515 --> 00:08:57.525 I was also given that word a lot of autonomy with being 00:08:57.525 --> 00:08:58.815 able to take care of animals. 00:08:59.145 --> 00:09:03.845 And my mom was very down to earth and even though we lived such a 00:09:03.845 --> 00:09:08.665 lavish life or we had access to that kind of wealth she raised me in a 00:09:08.665 --> 00:09:11.125 very down to earth type mentality. 00:09:11.125 --> 00:09:12.176 So I'm very grateful for that. 00:09:12.715 --> 00:09:16.825 So that I think came to play later in life also, which, we'll, 00:09:16.825 --> 00:09:18.025 we'll see the interconnection. 00:09:18.425 --> 00:09:25.665 So then I came back to Texas in 1987 and then started college. 00:09:25.725 --> 00:09:26.865 Well, I take that back. 00:09:26.865 --> 00:09:29.025 When I was in New Orleans, I had. 00:09:29.305 --> 00:09:32.305 I started college and my first major was psychology. 00:09:32.755 --> 00:09:37.165 No, my first major was marine biology, and then I changed to psychology 00:09:37.495 --> 00:09:42.235 and then I changed to pre-med, so I wanted to go into medical school. 00:09:42.625 --> 00:09:44.665 And then we moved to Texas. 00:09:44.665 --> 00:09:50.965 I finished all of my pre-med and got accepted into UTMB of Galveston 00:09:50.965 --> 00:09:52.855 under their physical therapy program. 00:09:52.855 --> 00:09:55.885 And they had only had out of, you know how many hundreds of applicants. 00:09:56.620 --> 00:09:57.940 Only 30 were accepted. 00:09:57.940 --> 00:10:01.900 And so I was accepted and right then before deciding to go to 00:10:01.900 --> 00:10:07.000 medical school, I changed my major again and went into education. 00:10:07.060 --> 00:10:10.530 And so I had to start my college pretty much all over again. 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:15.860 Went into education and graduated in early childhood or with elementary 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:20.325 pre-K to eighth, early childhood and reading specialization and 00:10:20.495 --> 00:10:24.905 and my love of farm animals and teaching just kind of combined. 00:10:25.305 --> 00:10:28.935 So when I was married, we had a little bit of acreage and then Nicole was 00:10:28.935 --> 00:10:30.765 born to me and then her sister Kristen. 00:10:31.185 --> 00:10:34.585 And it was even with my public school teaching. 00:10:34.585 --> 00:10:38.095 So after graduation, I did teach in the public school system for a few years. 00:10:38.095 --> 00:10:40.865 I taught kindergarten, first grade and third grade. 00:10:41.255 --> 00:10:46.385 And then once I had children, I thought, oh my gosh, I don't wanna be away from 00:10:46.385 --> 00:10:51.515 them and I know what the system is like, and I know that they are gonna be in this 00:10:51.515 --> 00:10:54.515 white room for eight hours that I was in. 00:10:54.905 --> 00:11:00.695 And so it became a philosophical and somewhat of a faith decision because I 00:11:00.695 --> 00:11:04.595 also felt like, eight hours away from us. 00:11:04.985 --> 00:11:08.885 That I, I wanted that influence on them spiritually and in their 00:11:08.885 --> 00:11:10.325 faith and in their philosophy. 00:11:10.535 --> 00:11:12.305 So the decision to homeschool was made. 00:11:12.515 --> 00:11:16.375 I left teaching and then I, we homeschooled the girls their 00:11:16.375 --> 00:11:17.995 whole career for homeschooling. 00:11:18.385 --> 00:11:23.375 And, and as Nicole referred to, it was a very relaxed atmosphere. 00:11:23.375 --> 00:11:28.415 We spent hours and hours outside and it was kind of naturally within me 00:11:28.655 --> 00:11:32.615 to wanna follow their interest and follow what they were interested in. 00:11:32.615 --> 00:11:35.835 And, oh, I'm so, I have so many squirrel moments. 00:11:35.835 --> 00:11:37.305 It's like, oh, look, there's a bug. 00:11:37.305 --> 00:11:38.565 Let's go look at that bug. 00:11:39.045 --> 00:11:42.255 So we, their, their homeschooling was very casual. 00:11:42.255 --> 00:11:45.075 Of course, we had some regimented things like, you have to learn math. 00:11:45.645 --> 00:11:50.185 But for the most part because both of the girls were interested in horses, I made 00:11:50.185 --> 00:11:52.665 sure that they could get horse lessons. 00:11:52.665 --> 00:11:56.025 And so while we couldn't afford those types of things being on 00:11:56.025 --> 00:11:58.315 one income we traded our work. 00:11:58.315 --> 00:12:00.685 So we would go and muck stalls. 00:12:00.685 --> 00:12:04.915 I think one of the places we went had like 23 stalls, and we would go every 00:12:04.915 --> 00:12:10.195 day and muck in the morning, 23 stalls so that my girls could have lessons. 00:12:10.495 --> 00:12:13.885 And then we borrowed horses from other people so that they could 00:12:13.885 --> 00:12:15.535 then learn how to ride barrels. 00:12:15.865 --> 00:12:19.115 And we were very fortunate that other people were willing 00:12:19.115 --> 00:12:20.405 to work with us like that. 00:12:20.765 --> 00:12:25.205 So both of the girls were, were able to follow their, their interest with horses. 00:12:25.775 --> 00:12:30.455 Rupert Isaacson: So you are, you are there homeschooling, you are 00:12:30.485 --> 00:12:33.905 trading your work for writing lessons. 00:12:34.445 --> 00:12:37.535 You are doing it somewhat faith-based, but also because you just don't 00:12:37.535 --> 00:12:38.855 want to be away from them. 00:12:39.485 --> 00:12:43.565 I've got a question, which is that you, you, you mentioned having grown 00:12:43.565 --> 00:12:49.205 up very wealthy, but then you are now a one income family where you need to 00:12:49.205 --> 00:12:52.225 trade mucking out for horse lessons. 00:12:52.525 --> 00:12:54.265 If you're a listener, you go, Ooh, what happened there? 00:12:54.265 --> 00:12:55.195 What happened in that story? 00:12:55.195 --> 00:12:55.915 Where'd the money go? 00:12:56.515 --> 00:13:03.105 And how come you didn't sort of end up with that entitled attitude that you might 00:13:03.105 --> 00:13:06.705 have ended up with, you know, growing up with, with, with money when the time 00:13:06.705 --> 00:13:08.865 came that you didn't have money anymore? 00:13:09.345 --> 00:13:09.585 Talk. 00:13:09.585 --> 00:13:10.545 Talk us through those. 00:13:11.505 --> 00:13:13.275 What's the missing bit of that story? 00:13:14.415 --> 00:13:17.775 Catherine Ward: So, I mean, the first loss of money was when my mom 00:13:17.825 --> 00:13:19.745 subsequently divorced my stepfather. 00:13:20.045 --> 00:13:26.255 And so then there, that family unit was no, no longer connected in that split. 00:13:26.385 --> 00:13:27.825 They did split the business. 00:13:27.825 --> 00:13:29.145 They had several businesses. 00:13:29.145 --> 00:13:30.495 We had car dealerships. 00:13:30.495 --> 00:13:31.425 They built homes. 00:13:31.425 --> 00:13:32.445 They had a boat shop. 00:13:32.695 --> 00:13:36.595 He was into real estate, so there were all kinds of things within the, the many 00:13:36.595 --> 00:13:38.245 different cookie jars that were in there. 00:13:38.815 --> 00:13:44.065 And so, my mom had to start off as a single mom with myself and my sister. 00:13:44.065 --> 00:13:47.995 And so she, in the divorce, she took over one of the boat shops. 00:13:48.385 --> 00:13:52.645 And over the next few years, she became one of the most renowned 00:13:52.825 --> 00:13:56.905 boat dealers in the United States because she was a woman and she grew 00:13:56.905 --> 00:13:59.095 that one business into three more. 00:13:59.095 --> 00:14:04.355 So she took it from one location to two more locations and and kind of became 00:14:04.355 --> 00:14:06.755 a millionaire in her own right Then. 00:14:07.195 --> 00:14:12.185 During that time, very sadly my sister was killed in, in an 00:14:12.185 --> 00:14:14.255 airplane crash, a private airplane. 00:14:14.675 --> 00:14:20.855 And that, that completely changed our family completely overnight. 00:14:21.245 --> 00:14:22.985 To watch my mother grieve. 00:14:23.495 --> 00:14:24.575 So deeply. 00:14:24.935 --> 00:14:29.855 And then to watch my, my grandparents in their own grief, but then having 00:14:29.855 --> 00:14:32.075 to help support her and support me. 00:14:32.075 --> 00:14:36.305 And you know, when you look at your life as a timeline, my whole 00:14:36.305 --> 00:14:41.495 life until the birth of my two daughters, my life always had that.in 00:14:41.555 --> 00:14:45.155 my timeline is that was the anchor of my life before my sister 00:14:45.155 --> 00:14:47.105 died and after my sister died. 00:14:47.585 --> 00:14:52.055 And, and again, until Nicole and Kristen were born, that's how I measured my life. 00:14:52.445 --> 00:14:54.785 And, and it did forever change us. 00:14:54.785 --> 00:14:58.925 And it forever changed our outlook as a family and our connection. 00:15:00.395 --> 00:15:04.495 During that time with my mom having a boat shop or a boat dealership? 00:15:04.835 --> 00:15:08.975 There were a few there were a couple of of injuries that happened. 00:15:08.975 --> 00:15:12.425 You know, like when you go to a boat show that's in a huge arena 00:15:12.705 --> 00:15:16.725 someone tripped and fell and cut themself and of course sued her. 00:15:17.025 --> 00:15:19.055 And then there were some other injuries. 00:15:19.055 --> 00:15:22.775 And so those lawsuits just totally demolished the business, right. 00:15:22.775 --> 00:15:24.455 It, it just destroyed the business. 00:15:24.455 --> 00:15:25.415 So we lost money. 00:15:25.475 --> 00:15:30.545 Then she got out of the business and decided to go into real estate and then 00:15:30.545 --> 00:15:32.885 she made herself a millionaire again. 00:15:34.085 --> 00:15:38.935 And and during that time, a lot of people and friends wanted her to co-sign 00:15:38.965 --> 00:15:41.305 for their own businesses and she did. 00:15:41.305 --> 00:15:42.415 She was very generous. 00:15:42.475 --> 00:15:46.885 And and then those would flop and so she lost all of it again. 00:15:47.185 --> 00:15:50.545 And then that was when we decided in 1987, you know what, 00:15:50.605 --> 00:15:51.985 I'm gonna go back to my roots. 00:15:52.075 --> 00:15:54.355 My mom was, would say this, I'm gonna go back to my roots. 00:15:54.355 --> 00:15:56.695 Let's go back to Texas and I'll go back to teaching. 00:15:56.725 --> 00:15:58.675 'cause she had been a school teacher before. 00:15:59.065 --> 00:16:01.885 So we came back to Texas and she went back to teaching. 00:16:02.245 --> 00:16:05.635 And then that's when I was entering college shortly after that. 00:16:06.175 --> 00:16:06.415 Rupert Isaacson: Got 00:16:06.415 --> 00:16:06.535 Catherine Ward: it. 00:16:06.540 --> 00:16:10.435 And then, and then the lifestyle was just a very middle s middle class lifestyle. 00:16:10.435 --> 00:16:12.955 And then when I got married, the same thing, just middle class. 00:16:13.345 --> 00:16:13.735 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:16:14.155 --> 00:16:17.935 You, you mentioned I mean, it, it's very interesting 'cause it gives you multiple 00:16:17.935 --> 00:16:22.825 perspectives on life, you know, to go from growing up wealthy to losing it all. 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:27.760 To intense grief to having, to making it again, to seeing a business 00:16:27.790 --> 00:16:29.020 how business can be destroyed. 00:16:29.020 --> 00:16:31.870 You know, and this is something which I think, you know, a lot of business 00:16:31.870 --> 00:16:37.600 owners in America live justifiably in fear of that day that somebody sues 00:16:37.910 --> 00:16:41.120 you know, business friendly country, but also business friendly for lawyers. 00:16:41.510 --> 00:16:45.920 Sadly, you know, it, it, it can wipe people out, but it certainly, 00:16:45.920 --> 00:16:51.890 I think, gives you an interesting place of empathy where you can say, 00:16:51.890 --> 00:16:55.070 well, no matter who you're dealing with, I've, I've lived that lifestyle. 00:16:55.430 --> 00:16:57.050 And at the end of the day, I know what's important. 00:16:57.290 --> 00:17:02.180 You talk about faith-based, obviously for my non-American listeners, you know, 00:17:02.810 --> 00:17:06.440 when you're listening from a European perspective and you hear about, you 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:11.000 know, Christian homeschooling, one thinks of, you know, armed compounds 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:16.600 in the woods and you know, ex extremism basically, and people being you know, 00:17:16.600 --> 00:17:19.840 homeschooled so that they won't learn about Darwin and that sort of thing. 00:17:20.330 --> 00:17:27.410 But your way of teaching at one acre farm is in no way like that. 00:17:27.510 --> 00:17:31.790 So when you talk about faith I'd just like you to, to talk 00:17:31.790 --> 00:17:38.750 about how, how you guys consider yourselves Christians and how that. 00:17:39.125 --> 00:17:43.805 Works in an interplay, not just with science teaching, but also 00:17:43.805 --> 00:17:46.655 with, you know, what values are. 00:17:46.805 --> 00:17:47.135 You know? 00:17:47.235 --> 00:17:53.145 Because again, many of us in, in Europe, we have a, a fear of religious 00:17:53.145 --> 00:17:58.160 extremism because all our history is learning about religious wars and 00:17:58.335 --> 00:17:59.595 witch burnings and things like that. 00:17:59.595 --> 00:18:01.905 I'm like, well, we don't wanna go back there and we don't 00:18:01.905 --> 00:18:02.985 want that kind of extremism. 00:18:02.985 --> 00:18:05.445 We sometimes see that coming out of the USAA little bit. 00:18:05.885 --> 00:18:09.365 But knowing you as ideal, I know that's not you guys at all. 00:18:09.895 --> 00:18:15.415 So talk to me a little bit about how you weave your, your faith into what you do. 00:18:15.445 --> 00:18:18.145 'cause I think it's, it's, it's, it's, it's useful for us on the 00:18:18.145 --> 00:18:20.695 European perspective to consider this. 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:25.255 Catherine Ward: I, I think for me, I've gone through some transformations through 00:18:25.255 --> 00:18:30.265 the years and I would say that there was a time that I was very tunnel visioned in 00:18:30.365 --> 00:18:37.475 that my philosophy was the only philosophy and, and or, or that the tenets of it are 00:18:37.595 --> 00:18:39.335 a hundred percent the only way to think. 00:18:39.815 --> 00:18:45.545 But then ironically, as I got exposed to the world, it was actually an 00:18:45.605 --> 00:18:50.735 aha moment when I was at your ranch in Elgin at a training for Movement 00:18:50.735 --> 00:18:55.145 Method and Horse Boy, where I met all these people from all over the world. 00:18:55.625 --> 00:19:00.155 Here at the ranch and we were all learning Movement Method and Horse Boy 00:19:00.605 --> 00:19:02.915 and, and I had gone there with such. 00:19:03.485 --> 00:19:08.195 A thought process that, that I was, I had already prejudged all these 00:19:08.195 --> 00:19:10.055 people before I had ever even met them. 00:19:10.895 --> 00:19:15.935 And I was now surrounded by people that were so highly intelligent and all 00:19:15.935 --> 00:19:18.605 had their own philosophies or faith. 00:19:18.905 --> 00:19:23.075 But the, the common thing that I saw was kindness. 00:19:23.135 --> 00:19:27.935 Kindness and unconditional love, which are the tenets of Christianity. 00:19:28.445 --> 00:19:33.155 But I saw them, I saw it in people that I would've never pinpointed as 00:19:33.155 --> 00:19:37.845 being the evangelical Christian type of western Christian that we have. 00:19:38.205 --> 00:19:44.355 And that opened my mind to wow, there is, to me, it became a universal 00:19:44.355 --> 00:19:50.205 truth in my heart, that kindness is of the utmost importance. 00:19:50.535 --> 00:19:53.625 And so I came away from that and I started to do studies on 00:19:53.625 --> 00:19:55.155 ancient religions and stuff. 00:19:55.155 --> 00:20:00.415 And, and I found that through some of the, the, the basic first religions and 00:20:00.415 --> 00:20:04.465 even Native American, that the common tenant through all of that one is that 00:20:04.465 --> 00:20:08.785 they all believe there is a creator of whatever, whoever that creator is, at 00:20:08.785 --> 00:20:10.525 least they acknowledge there's a creator. 00:20:10.525 --> 00:20:14.215 And then second to that was just kindness and unconditional love. 00:20:14.605 --> 00:20:19.135 And that I feel like every day when I wake up, that is what drives me every 00:20:19.135 --> 00:20:21.625 day is to just to be kind to people. 00:20:22.045 --> 00:20:26.585 And and I believe that as I see my daughters, both of them as adults, 00:20:26.615 --> 00:20:30.965 that they have such huge, kind and compassionate and empathic. 00:20:31.820 --> 00:20:33.380 Empathetic hearts. 00:20:33.830 --> 00:20:36.440 I'm, I'm just very proud of them for, for being that way. 00:20:37.760 --> 00:20:38.090 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:20:38.090 --> 00:20:44.090 It's, you know, I think what often gets lost in, in religion is spirituality, 00:20:44.390 --> 00:20:48.280 you know, because of course, as soon as you, you have a, a church or a temple or 00:20:48.280 --> 00:20:52.030 whatever one wants to call it, usually have a bloke, you know, standing there 00:20:52.450 --> 00:20:56.110 with a jar that you can put your money in and it sort of goes from there. 00:20:56.180 --> 00:20:59.270 Whereas of course, yes, one's relationship with the divine is one's 00:20:59.270 --> 00:21:00.440 relationship with the divine and. 00:21:01.205 --> 00:21:03.365 If there's a Christ message out there, I think as you say, 00:21:03.365 --> 00:21:04.535 it's, it's love by neighbor. 00:21:04.715 --> 00:21:07.625 Catherine Ward: Well, you had asked how we deal with that today at, at the school. 00:21:07.630 --> 00:21:07.640 Yeah. 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:07.685 Yeah. 00:21:07.685 --> 00:21:10.395 And so, we're not, we're not a faith-based school. 00:21:10.395 --> 00:21:12.465 We don't advertise ourselves as such. 00:21:12.785 --> 00:21:17.195 And, and I think that was a decision that Nicole and I made from the very beginning. 00:21:17.345 --> 00:21:17.435 Mm-hmm. 00:21:17.435 --> 00:21:20.405 That we did not want that, that, not that we were turning our back 00:21:20.405 --> 00:21:24.725 on anything, but that that is not what we wanted as defining us. 00:21:24.965 --> 00:21:29.825 And that we wanted to have an eclectic group of people and kids because we wanted 00:21:29.825 --> 00:21:34.445 the, like-mindedness to be what is the goal of those parents for their children. 00:21:34.685 --> 00:21:37.475 And we wanted, and those people can come from all walks of life 00:21:37.685 --> 00:21:42.065 if the goal for their child is to be outdoors and to be free from 00:21:42.255 --> 00:21:45.145 institutionalized type classroom. 00:21:45.175 --> 00:21:48.895 And so we made that very conscious decision to not advertise 00:21:48.895 --> 00:21:51.955 ourselves as faith-based because believe me, in this area I. 00:21:52.145 --> 00:21:52.865 Where we are. 00:21:52.865 --> 00:21:55.085 It, it, it could have flourished even that way. 00:21:55.505 --> 00:21:58.805 But how I speak with, with our kids, 'cause I'm the teacher of 00:21:58.805 --> 00:22:00.575 the elementary ages seven to 10. 00:22:01.055 --> 00:22:05.045 And, and so we really delve deep in our subject matter 00:22:05.045 --> 00:22:06.665 is all of a animal husbandry. 00:22:06.665 --> 00:22:10.355 So like, let's say we're talking about chickens, we're gonna do the parts 00:22:10.355 --> 00:22:13.845 of the body, the digestive system, reproductive system where did they 00:22:13.845 --> 00:22:15.885 originate, how did they migrate? 00:22:15.885 --> 00:22:20.535 And so we interconnect geography and history and all of the 00:22:20.535 --> 00:22:23.025 subjects but studying chickens. 00:22:23.445 --> 00:22:28.015 And we'll talk about DNA and we talk and especially in the reproductive system. 00:22:28.620 --> 00:22:31.255 And, and then a lot of times I'll, I'll. 00:22:31.755 --> 00:22:35.175 Tell the kids, there are two basic ways to look at the world. 00:22:35.175 --> 00:22:39.015 You have one, one belief system that believes that everything 00:22:39.015 --> 00:22:40.485 was created by a creator. 00:22:40.785 --> 00:22:43.425 And then you have another that believes that everything was 00:22:43.425 --> 00:22:45.525 happenstance through evolution. 00:22:46.005 --> 00:22:50.895 But, and I tell 'em this is not where we discuss or debate that what 00:22:50.895 --> 00:22:55.125 I want y'all is I want y'all to see how they can both be interconnected. 00:22:55.425 --> 00:23:00.525 There are, there is science that supports both, and we are going to stay 00:23:00.525 --> 00:23:04.965 open-minded and look at the development of chickens or goats or whatever from 00:23:04.995 --> 00:23:09.765 that perspective and see that there's probably bits of truth in both of it. 00:23:10.125 --> 00:23:15.855 And, and I want them to kind of just become their own independent thinkers. 00:23:16.305 --> 00:23:19.065 And the parents have always been very supportive and very 00:23:19.065 --> 00:23:23.385 appreciative that we approach science in, in that way with the kids. 00:23:24.045 --> 00:23:24.345 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:23:24.345 --> 00:23:29.325 I mean, you talk about the need to, this word autonomy has come up and 00:23:29.325 --> 00:23:33.085 of course autonomy is an intellectual process as well as deciding what I 00:23:33.085 --> 00:23:34.525 want to do from moment to moment. 00:23:35.065 --> 00:23:41.545 Nicole, why do you feel autonomy is so important in the development 00:23:41.545 --> 00:23:43.840 of, of a human talk, talk, talk, talk to us about this. 00:23:45.025 --> 00:23:48.415 Nicole Jones: I think this goes back to as I was writing some things down as my 00:23:48.415 --> 00:23:51.805 mom was speaking, because her and I, I, it's been a while since we've talked about 00:23:51.805 --> 00:23:53.275 this subject, so I think this is good. 00:23:53.575 --> 00:24:00.385 I agree with a, a main goal of mine is to let kids be able to think for themselves 00:24:00.835 --> 00:24:05.065 because the, the systems that we put them through, tell them how to think, 00:24:05.125 --> 00:24:08.395 tell them what to do, tell them when to do it, and then they come out of the 00:24:08.395 --> 00:24:10.975 system and they don't know what to do. 00:24:11.035 --> 00:24:12.205 They don't know how to start a business. 00:24:12.205 --> 00:24:14.795 They don't know how to balance their, their bank accounts. 00:24:14.795 --> 00:24:19.025 They don't know how to take care of animals that like these basic human. 00:24:19.445 --> 00:24:23.705 Just everyday requirements that we have as, as adults that my friends at 00:24:23.705 --> 00:24:26.405 30 still don't know how to do because they went through the public school. 00:24:26.465 --> 00:24:30.515 Like just those things that if you don't know how to do something, that 00:24:30.515 --> 00:24:32.045 you can go and figure out how to do it. 00:24:32.045 --> 00:24:35.615 So having that self-directed autonomy that homeschooling gives you, that farm 00:24:35.615 --> 00:24:37.535 schooling, gives you that movement method. 00:24:37.805 --> 00:24:40.975 Those types of based educational methods give you it. 00:24:41.065 --> 00:24:44.785 It doesn't matter what walk in life you're going to do, if you want 00:24:44.785 --> 00:24:46.015 to change careers or if you, you. 00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:47.940 Decide to take a left turn somewhere. 00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:52.800 If you have those skills in, okay, I can do this and figure it out because I've 00:24:52.800 --> 00:24:56.670 had the autonomy and the practice of I want to start lemonade stand, or I want 00:24:56.670 --> 00:25:01.140 to figure out how I can afford to keep a horse for the year, you know, those 00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:04.545 kinds of things then you're gonna be able to succeed in, in just about anything. 00:25:04.545 --> 00:25:07.080 And I think it's important to start that very, very young. 00:25:07.370 --> 00:25:11.270 I teach the kids ages four to seven and these little four year olds, and 00:25:11.270 --> 00:25:14.860 sometimes we have three year olds they're feeding the animals themselves. 00:25:14.860 --> 00:25:17.950 They come and tell us like, that animal's poop looks different 00:25:17.950 --> 00:25:19.390 today than it did yesterday. 00:25:19.390 --> 00:25:21.040 Or do we need to check and make sure it's sick? 00:25:21.040 --> 00:25:25.570 Like, just those observational things that we have lost being out of nature. 00:25:25.870 --> 00:25:30.250 And so being, basically being able to, to allow kids to think for themselves 00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:33.580 and be those independent thinkers and autonomy with your day gives you that. 00:25:33.700 --> 00:25:36.250 And it doesn't mean that we just let kids go and run around and 00:25:36.250 --> 00:25:37.300 do whatever they want to do. 00:25:37.570 --> 00:25:41.110 You know, there's a boundary to, okay, you wanna throw mud, that's fine. 00:25:41.330 --> 00:25:44.420 You can't throw it at other kids, but you can go throw mud at the fence and 00:25:44.420 --> 00:25:46.670 you can figure out how far you can get it and who can get it farther? 00:25:46.670 --> 00:25:48.860 Who can, does this mud stick to the tree? 00:25:48.860 --> 00:25:50.360 Does it not stick to this tree? 00:25:50.590 --> 00:25:53.350 And so we kind of approach everything with that. 00:25:53.410 --> 00:25:56.830 And that's based in, in our movement method training and horse boy 00:25:56.830 --> 00:25:59.920 training that we did years ago, it, it really kind of pieced together 00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:02.890 things that we were already doing and experienced and found very important. 00:26:02.890 --> 00:26:07.000 And just was that final piece to, to make it all connect and make sense. 00:26:07.180 --> 00:26:07.480 So, 00:26:07.765 --> 00:26:09.255 Rupert Isaacson: well you used the word connect, so Yeah. 00:26:09.535 --> 00:26:11.530 I mean, it, it's a well-known thing within. 00:26:12.515 --> 00:26:17.075 Psychology, as you guys both know, autonomy and connectedness, right? 00:26:17.075 --> 00:26:19.835 That's always those, those seem to be the two fundamental human, 00:26:20.045 --> 00:26:21.935 psychological, social needs. 00:26:22.145 --> 00:26:27.105 We need enough autonomy that we feel self-actualized and we need enough 00:26:27.105 --> 00:26:29.775 connectedness that we feel supported. 00:26:29.805 --> 00:26:30.255 Connected. 00:26:30.285 --> 00:26:31.575 And why would that be? 00:26:31.575 --> 00:26:32.955 Well, we're herd animals. 00:26:32.955 --> 00:26:33.555 At the end of the day. 00:26:33.555 --> 00:26:36.975 We're pack animals, we're middle tier predators. 00:26:37.255 --> 00:26:41.815 And our only way of being top predator is by talking to each other and strategizing. 00:26:41.815 --> 00:26:46.525 And the moment one of us ends up two autonomous, actually out on a limb, 00:26:46.525 --> 00:26:47.845 well, that's when the hyenas get you. 00:26:48.205 --> 00:26:50.335 But of course not enough autonomy. 00:26:50.335 --> 00:26:51.595 Well then there's no innovation. 00:26:51.655 --> 00:26:58.435 And it seems that because in a hunting and gathering society, there are 00:26:58.435 --> 00:27:01.615 more opportunities for connectedness than there are for autonomy. 00:27:02.065 --> 00:27:06.325 In, in our evolution, our social evolution autonomy has been a bit of 00:27:06.325 --> 00:27:08.695 a, sort of a luxury, a novel thing. 00:27:08.935 --> 00:27:11.875 So we tend to seek it out in the same way that we seek out sweet foods or 00:27:11.875 --> 00:27:17.695 fatty foods, because in the wild, those are in somewhat short supply and they're 00:27:17.875 --> 00:27:19.465 nutrition packed and energy packed. 00:27:19.465 --> 00:27:21.355 So we're gonna gravitate towards those. 00:27:21.805 --> 00:27:26.155 Now we've, you know, got a society where that's kind of all that's on 00:27:26.155 --> 00:27:31.105 offer and it's killing us, but we're still, we have a genetic drive for it. 00:27:31.105 --> 00:27:33.835 Like we have a genetic drive for autonomy. 00:27:34.135 --> 00:27:37.005 But one of the things which we can often see is that. 00:27:38.055 --> 00:27:44.565 Too much autonomy, oddly enough, can also stand in the way of happiness and success. 00:27:44.565 --> 00:27:48.075 And you, you know, the, when the kids are working out what they 00:27:48.075 --> 00:27:51.885 wanna do, how they wanna spend their time, and making these decisions. 00:27:52.275 --> 00:27:54.645 You also, of course, are having to teach 'em about connectedness. 00:27:54.885 --> 00:27:56.055 How do you work with a group? 00:27:56.355 --> 00:27:58.335 And specifically how do you seek out mentorship? 00:27:58.335 --> 00:27:59.595 How do you know what you don't know? 00:28:00.225 --> 00:28:03.945 And go and find out about that, you know, as you need it. 00:28:04.155 --> 00:28:06.735 Talk to how, how do you, how do you foster that in kids? 00:28:06.765 --> 00:28:09.795 I, I'll go back to you, Catherine, and then I want to come back to 00:28:09.795 --> 00:28:10.965 you as, as well, Nicole, on this. 00:28:11.265 --> 00:28:12.525 So the autonomy part? 00:28:12.525 --> 00:28:12.855 Yes. 00:28:12.885 --> 00:28:14.325 Let's talk about the connectedness part. 00:28:15.555 --> 00:28:19.395 Catherine Ward: Well, I think far autonomy there, you can gain 00:28:19.575 --> 00:28:22.065 greater autonomy by the more. 00:28:22.395 --> 00:28:25.425 You learn, the more skills you have then give you more 00:28:25.425 --> 00:28:27.555 independence for other things. 00:28:27.945 --> 00:28:34.075 And so as the kids come in we of course train them on the, the routines of what 00:28:34.075 --> 00:28:35.785 we have to do for caring for the animals. 00:28:35.785 --> 00:28:39.865 So in our outdoor school, it's a five hour school and the first two to two 00:28:39.865 --> 00:28:41.545 and a half hours is spent outside. 00:28:41.825 --> 00:28:42.725 When they arrive. 00:28:42.725 --> 00:28:46.565 We both, the early childhood, Nicole, what Nicole's over and the elementary, 00:28:46.565 --> 00:28:50.885 they're given, you know, an hour or so of time to just roam the farm, 00:28:50.885 --> 00:28:53.345 go play, connect with their friends. 00:28:53.350 --> 00:28:54.270 This is at the start 00:28:54.270 --> 00:28:54.870 Rupert Isaacson: of the school day. 00:28:54.940 --> 00:28:56.425 Catherine Ward: This is at the start of the school day. 00:28:56.425 --> 00:28:56.665 Right. 00:28:56.725 --> 00:28:56.845 The 00:28:56.845 --> 00:28:58.150 Rupert Isaacson: sort of zero hour, if you like. 00:28:58.375 --> 00:28:58.765 Catherine Ward: Yeah. 00:28:58.795 --> 00:28:58.975 Yeah. 00:28:58.975 --> 00:29:01.705 So it's a rival and it's time for them to transition from 00:29:01.705 --> 00:29:03.295 being home to now being here. 00:29:03.565 --> 00:29:03.715 Mm-hmm. 00:29:03.955 --> 00:29:05.335 And, and they're excited. 00:29:05.335 --> 00:29:08.515 I mean, they're social creatures, so of course they want to see their friends. 00:29:08.515 --> 00:29:09.625 And so we allow that. 00:29:09.955 --> 00:29:10.615 And I. 00:29:11.130 --> 00:29:15.000 We know from experience and from also our, our, our both of our backgrounds 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.490 and our trainings both formally with, with college and through movement 00:29:18.490 --> 00:29:24.250 method and so forth, that kids, kids' brains just need time to, to adjust. 00:29:24.580 --> 00:29:27.550 So we give them that time, their freedom in the morning, 00:29:27.850 --> 00:29:29.830 and then we kind of regroup. 00:29:30.040 --> 00:29:33.550 And at the beginning of the school year, and then as the the months go 00:29:33.550 --> 00:29:36.850 on, we're teaching them the skills of how to care for the animals. 00:29:37.060 --> 00:29:38.500 They're given farm jobs. 00:29:38.500 --> 00:29:40.330 Each child is given a farm job. 00:29:40.610 --> 00:29:44.600 When they reach up to elementary age, they're put together as teams. 00:29:44.600 --> 00:29:47.270 And so now as a team, they have to do a farm job. 00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:50.990 And it might be actually scooping poop, scooping the horse poop, 00:29:51.260 --> 00:29:53.320 putting it in the compost pile. 00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:56.350 And then we have another compost pile where they have to dig it and 00:29:56.350 --> 00:30:00.160 fill up manure bags because we sell manure to the community to make 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:02.350 money back to help pay for the food. 00:30:02.800 --> 00:30:06.010 With the, I'll let Nicole speak about her early childhood kids. 00:30:06.010 --> 00:30:07.960 I didn't, I I don't wanna step on your toes, Nicole. 00:30:08.530 --> 00:30:13.930 The, there is a lot of poop talk because we have so many animals 00:30:13.930 --> 00:30:15.040 and there's a lot of poop. 00:30:15.190 --> 00:30:15.250 Yeah. 00:30:15.460 --> 00:30:20.830 And, and, but with that, they learn how to observe animals. 00:30:20.830 --> 00:30:23.890 Poop lets them know immediately if an animal is sick. 00:30:24.280 --> 00:30:26.800 And, and so then we're able to tend to the animals. 00:30:27.130 --> 00:30:32.890 The the skills of, of how to administer medications, how to, how to muck stalls, 00:30:32.890 --> 00:30:37.090 how to just all the things that go surrounding taking care of the animals. 00:30:37.510 --> 00:30:40.660 But then we also give them skills on orienteering. 00:30:40.660 --> 00:30:41.830 With compasses. 00:30:42.070 --> 00:30:47.380 We let 'em we let 'em use tools, we let them dig holes, we let them be dirty. 00:30:47.710 --> 00:30:51.400 And then within our, oh, and we Nature Journal, we encourage them to do nature 00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:56.200 journaling, and then whatever subject matter we're learning, we try to 00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:58.720 encourage them to go find more things out. 00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:01.300 Like if we're talking about the chickens, well then they'll do some 00:31:01.300 --> 00:31:04.630 observations with chickens or go and just hang out in the chicken 00:31:04.630 --> 00:31:06.130 pen and have some interactions. 00:31:06.670 --> 00:31:09.190 So there's all of that gets connected. 00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:12.520 And then as their skills grow, well then they, they actually 00:31:12.520 --> 00:31:13.600 gain more independence. 00:31:13.600 --> 00:31:16.780 So by the time we get to later in the school year, well, 00:31:16.780 --> 00:31:20.330 they have more independence to go do projects on their own. 00:31:20.690 --> 00:31:24.230 And Nicole, you'll have to remind me, there's someone that has said that 00:31:24.230 --> 00:31:27.950 I may mess up the quote, but where you allow children to do dangerous 00:31:27.950 --> 00:31:31.670 things carefully, is that it? 00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:35.020 Nicole Jones: Danger, allow children to do dangerous things. 00:31:35.860 --> 00:31:36.190 I don't, no. 00:31:36.940 --> 00:31:37.630 Catherine Ward: Carefully ca 00:31:38.230 --> 00:31:40.570 Nicole Jones: basically, it's, it's if they're doing it safely. 00:31:40.570 --> 00:31:40.630 Yeah. 00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:43.090 Like if they're doing it with enough caution, let them 00:31:43.090 --> 00:31:44.590 try, let them take the risk. 00:31:44.595 --> 00:31:44.715 Yeah. 00:31:44.895 --> 00:31:45.635 Is the. 00:31:46.990 --> 00:31:48.850 Catherine Ward: That's one of the things that, that we got. 00:31:48.850 --> 00:31:52.240 I think also as, I think it's Richard Lu, it's either Richard Lu or Peter Gray. 00:31:52.780 --> 00:31:56.350 My personality and Nicole's personality is very hands off. 00:31:56.380 --> 00:31:59.770 We want kids to just explore and make mistakes. 00:31:59.770 --> 00:32:03.580 And what we've tried to do here at One Acre Farm is within the, the 00:32:03.580 --> 00:32:07.480 four walls of the privacy fence that we've provided a safe environment 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.990 that it can be a yes environment, which is what we learned from you. 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:13.390 We did, you know, I need to kind of go back. 00:32:13.390 --> 00:32:18.910 There was so much that we've learned from you and with you that, that I'd like to 00:32:18.910 --> 00:32:21.010 share with your listeners how we met. 00:32:21.340 --> 00:32:25.915 And so my daughter Nicole had gone into education and and 00:32:26.050 --> 00:32:29.440 with into special education and she wanted to go listen to Dr. 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:30.220 Temple Grandin. 00:32:30.310 --> 00:32:34.450 And I said, oh my gosh, I wanna go, I know of her because of her agricultural stuff. 00:32:34.600 --> 00:32:38.140 So we go to this place here in Houston to go listen to Temple. 00:32:38.890 --> 00:32:42.820 And it's much like when you go to a music concert, you're, you're going 00:32:42.820 --> 00:32:47.320 to hear the headlining musician or the headlining band, but then you have 00:32:47.320 --> 00:32:49.030 the little opening act beforehand. 00:32:49.420 --> 00:32:55.450 So you were the opening act and you walk out on the stage and you're, you looked 00:32:55.450 --> 00:32:57.460 like you had just walked off the ranch. 00:32:58.300 --> 00:32:59.380 You had your jeans. 00:32:59.590 --> 00:33:01.425 Rupert Isaacson: I probably had, yeah, you probably had, 00:33:02.470 --> 00:33:04.030 Catherine Ward: yeah, you've got your long hair. 00:33:04.030 --> 00:33:06.400 I mean your, your signature look that you have. 00:33:06.670 --> 00:33:10.960 And I turned, and I, I looked at my daughter and I kind of rolled my eyes. 00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:13.570 Honestly, you hadn't even opened your mouth yet. 00:33:13.870 --> 00:33:14.740 And I rolled my eyes. 00:33:14.740 --> 00:33:15.070 I think you were 00:33:15.185 --> 00:33:16.825 Rupert Isaacson: the first person to have had that reflecting to me. 00:33:18.040 --> 00:33:20.950 Catherine Ward: And I looked at her, I said, oh my gosh, we have to listen 00:33:20.950 --> 00:33:23.140 to this guy before Temple comes on. 00:33:23.140 --> 00:33:25.030 And she's like, it'll be okay, mama. 00:33:25.030 --> 00:33:26.530 He probably won't talk that long. 00:33:27.190 --> 00:33:28.660 Rupert Isaacson: So, didn't know me that well yet. 00:33:28.690 --> 00:33:28.870 Yeah, 00:33:28.895 --> 00:33:29.185 Catherine Ward: yeah. 00:33:29.485 --> 00:33:34.990 So, but then your mouth opened, you started speaking, you started sharing 00:33:34.990 --> 00:33:37.690 your story of Rowan, you started sharing. 00:33:38.425 --> 00:33:44.185 The things that you did to help him and how Movement Method and Horse Boy 00:33:44.185 --> 00:33:48.265 were all developed and the whole time, Nicole and I are both elbowing each 00:33:48.265 --> 00:33:52.375 other because everything that came outta your mouth was exactly how we 00:33:52.375 --> 00:33:54.535 homeschooled and how they were raised. 00:33:54.535 --> 00:33:58.165 And I just kept having, it was almost like some people when they talk about 00:33:58.165 --> 00:34:01.825 going to church and that God is talking to them, that there's that light shining. 00:34:02.095 --> 00:34:03.835 So I did, I felt like, I think 00:34:03.985 --> 00:34:06.160 Rupert Isaacson: anyone's made that comparison to me before, 00:34:07.260 --> 00:34:10.015 Catherine Ward: but I did and I felt like, oh my gosh, this 00:34:10.015 --> 00:34:11.875 guy is speaking right to me. 00:34:12.205 --> 00:34:16.255 And now I knew that, 'cause I, I had spent so many years feeling 00:34:16.315 --> 00:34:21.355 alone 'cause there was nobody else around me homeschooling like this. 00:34:21.925 --> 00:34:27.415 And, and we were just kind of the oddballs in the homeschooling community. 00:34:27.565 --> 00:34:30.475 So now fast forward, she's an adult, we're listening to you. 00:34:30.805 --> 00:34:33.505 And now I didn't want you to stop speaking. 00:34:33.745 --> 00:34:35.425 I wanted to keep hearing you. 00:34:35.425 --> 00:34:38.545 And of course we were very grateful to, to hear Dr. 00:34:38.545 --> 00:34:39.385 Temple also. 00:34:39.725 --> 00:34:43.415 But afterwards we made a beeline to go meet you, buy a book, and 00:34:43.415 --> 00:34:46.865 then she and I signed up to come to training at your place with them. 00:34:46.865 --> 00:34:49.445 I think the ranch that summer, it was like just a couple months later. 00:34:49.805 --> 00:34:50.735 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:34:51.155 --> 00:34:58.465 And and it was just so, edifying to now find that, that what we had been doing 00:34:58.465 --> 00:35:03.715 all along had a name or it had, it had science behind it because you obviously 00:35:03.715 --> 00:35:05.455 have done all the science research for it. 00:35:05.695 --> 00:35:08.905 So it was a very, it was a very comfortable place. 00:35:08.905 --> 00:35:12.775 It was, it was like, this is the very next step that our life needs to take. 00:35:13.135 --> 00:35:15.985 And at the end of, and I've heard you do this 'cause I've seen you speak 00:35:15.985 --> 00:35:21.775 many times, and when you encourage people to use their life and what they 00:35:21.775 --> 00:35:27.565 have to include people with autism into their life, you made it very 00:35:27.565 --> 00:35:32.335 clear that, that you may think you're gonna be imparting something to them. 00:35:32.335 --> 00:35:36.625 But what in fact actually happens is that you receive so much more from that 00:35:36.685 --> 00:35:40.435 person with autism that they give back to you and that they are the dream givers. 00:35:40.915 --> 00:35:43.675 And, and that's exactly what happened. 00:35:43.675 --> 00:35:47.155 So I came back from training and everything else and we were like, this 00:35:47.155 --> 00:35:49.255 is the next step for one acre farm. 00:35:49.255 --> 00:35:54.835 So from 1999 to 2016, we had been doing all these classes and then it 00:35:54.835 --> 00:35:56.695 was like, no, this is the next step. 00:35:56.695 --> 00:36:01.135 We are going to become inclusive with all of our activities and we're 00:36:01.135 --> 00:36:03.235 gonna start private autism sessions. 00:36:03.535 --> 00:36:07.615 And, and we have never looked back from that decision. 00:36:07.795 --> 00:36:08.425 Ever, ever. 00:36:08.425 --> 00:36:09.985 So thank you Rupert for that. 00:36:10.015 --> 00:36:11.305 Rupert Isaacson: Oh, it's my great pleasure. 00:36:11.305 --> 00:36:14.155 I mean you, where are we talking about connectivity? 00:36:14.705 --> 00:36:16.865 Connection, connectedness I think. 00:36:17.975 --> 00:36:21.695 A a lot of us started in this place, and I'm sure most listeners who 00:36:21.695 --> 00:36:26.405 are equine assisted practitioners started in this place or might still 00:36:26.405 --> 00:36:28.655 be in this place of loneliness. 00:36:28.775 --> 00:36:33.155 When you tread a bit of a pioneering path, it's lonely. 00:36:33.555 --> 00:36:38.775 And when you are a special needs parent with a, with a nonverbal kid, 00:36:38.775 --> 00:36:42.695 you're, it's lonely because you're, you're not really talking and the, 00:36:42.845 --> 00:36:44.285 there, there's a lot of loneliness. 00:36:44.285 --> 00:36:50.165 And so for, for me, I know the great gift, one of the many great 00:36:50.165 --> 00:36:54.365 gifts of doing this work has been the connectedness of community with 00:36:54.365 --> 00:36:57.815 people like you all and like with the people who are listening to this. 00:36:57.965 --> 00:37:00.935 So to realize, oh my gosh, we actually are all one tribe. 00:37:00.935 --> 00:37:02.315 We actually are all one community. 00:37:02.315 --> 00:37:06.065 It's just that we're a little bit spread out geographically from 00:37:06.065 --> 00:37:08.615 each other, but we have community. 00:37:08.615 --> 00:37:13.385 We're out there and listening to you between the lines, talking about the, 00:37:14.105 --> 00:37:19.355 this sort of zero hour where the kids come in and get to socialize before move 00:37:19.355 --> 00:37:25.745 and socialize and explore together before they have to sit down and listen to old 00:37:25.745 --> 00:37:29.975 boring adult, you know, saying, okay, now let's look at the DNA of chickens. 00:37:30.245 --> 00:37:34.175 Interesting as that is, they are the fact that they're allowed to have 00:37:34.175 --> 00:37:41.075 their time to not just transition into the school day, but also. 00:37:42.515 --> 00:37:44.465 To explore their own connection and community. 00:37:44.795 --> 00:37:47.795 And then you begin to organize them in teams. 00:37:48.545 --> 00:37:52.985 This is actually quite groundbreaking because you, you know, yes. 00:37:52.990 --> 00:37:55.685 You, you hear about project based education. 00:37:55.685 --> 00:37:58.655 It's coming in more and more in the mainstream, but it's, you know, 00:37:58.715 --> 00:38:02.105 we all know that unless you have a, a, a, a teacher that really 00:38:02.885 --> 00:38:06.065 has that personality, it's likely to be a little bit lip service. 00:38:06.065 --> 00:38:07.475 You know, you guys really do it. 00:38:07.865 --> 00:38:13.715 Can you, Nicole, talk, talk to me about co connectedness 00:38:13.895 --> 00:38:16.985 and how do you encourage kids? 00:38:17.855 --> 00:38:20.885 Because you, you're encouraging to be independent minded, but you also 00:38:20.885 --> 00:38:23.705 need to encourage them to learn how to seek out information, right? 00:38:24.035 --> 00:38:27.725 Who to ask, who to research, how to just 'cause somebody says something 00:38:27.725 --> 00:38:29.045 doesn't mean it's necessarily true. 00:38:29.255 --> 00:38:29.675 Dah dah, dah. 00:38:29.795 --> 00:38:31.265 You know, how do you approach all that? 00:38:32.465 --> 00:38:33.935 Nicole Jones: Well, I think we have a couple of really 00:38:33.935 --> 00:38:35.195 good things working for us. 00:38:35.255 --> 00:38:38.295 One being we have the multi age range. 00:38:38.685 --> 00:38:41.565 So my class is ages four to seven. 00:38:41.565 --> 00:38:43.425 Catherine's class is ages seven to 10. 00:38:43.765 --> 00:38:47.395 That comes back being based in the Montessori practices of having a three 00:38:47.395 --> 00:38:49.535 year age range and the importance in that. 00:38:49.835 --> 00:38:52.925 And so we already, now we do have a small class size. 00:38:52.985 --> 00:38:56.375 The early childhood class goes up to about 13 and then elementary 00:38:56.375 --> 00:38:58.775 fluctuates anywhere from 13 to 16. 00:38:58.895 --> 00:38:58.985 Mm-hmm. 00:38:59.225 --> 00:39:00.675 Roundabout per day. 00:39:00.915 --> 00:39:04.155 Now that we will have more students than that during the week, because some come 00:39:04.155 --> 00:39:05.685 partial week and some come the full week. 00:39:05.685 --> 00:39:09.255 But in a given day it's 13 to 16 kids per class. 00:39:09.645 --> 00:39:15.555 So in that 13 kids, we've got a third are the oldest, or a third are the middle. 00:39:15.555 --> 00:39:18.104 And a third are the youngest typically is how it would go. 00:39:18.435 --> 00:39:23.205 So whenever we start a school year, we're not getting this influx of. 00:39:23.544 --> 00:39:24.324 Brand new children. 00:39:24.324 --> 00:39:25.854 A, a class of brand new children. 00:39:25.854 --> 00:39:29.634 It's 60% of the kids are still retained from the following 00:39:29.634 --> 00:39:31.074 year or from the previous year. 00:39:31.374 --> 00:39:35.274 And the new kids coming on are learning from the kids who 00:39:35.274 --> 00:39:35.964 are already having New Year. 00:39:36.595 --> 00:39:36.684 Ah, so 00:39:36.684 --> 00:39:37.615 Rupert Isaacson: there's mental, there's age to age. 00:39:37.674 --> 00:39:38.095 Yes. 00:39:38.244 --> 00:39:39.804 Absolute peer mentorship within the Yeah. 00:39:40.434 --> 00:39:40.824 Got it. 00:39:40.884 --> 00:39:41.124 Nicole Jones: Yeah. 00:39:41.710 --> 00:39:44.040 Rupert Isaacson: If you're in the equine assisted field, or if you're 00:39:44.040 --> 00:39:48.470 considering a career in the equine assisted field, you might want to consider 00:39:48.540 --> 00:39:52.810 taking one of our three neuroscience backed equine assisted programs. 00:39:52.870 --> 00:39:58.450 Horseboy method, now established for 20 years, is the original 00:39:59.045 --> 00:40:05.355 Equine assisted program specifically designed for autism, mentored by and 00:40:05.355 --> 00:40:08.025 developed in conjunction with Dr. 00:40:08.025 --> 00:40:10.905 Temple Grandin and many other neuroscientists. 00:40:11.245 --> 00:40:14.515 We work in the saddle with younger children. 00:40:15.010 --> 00:40:19.960 Helping them create oxytocin in their bodies and neuroplasticity in the brain. 00:40:20.620 --> 00:40:22.060 It works incredibly well. 00:40:22.060 --> 00:40:23.780 It's now in about 40 countries. 00:40:24.490 --> 00:40:25.240 Check it out. 00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:30.070 If you're working without horses, you might want to look at movement 00:40:30.080 --> 00:40:33.450 method, which gets a very, very similar effect, but can also be 00:40:33.450 --> 00:40:35.200 applied in schools, in homes. 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:40.390 If you're working with families, you can give them really tangible exercises to do 00:40:40.390 --> 00:40:41.930 at home that will create neuroplasticity. 00:40:43.285 --> 00:40:44.565 when they're not with you. 00:40:45.075 --> 00:40:48.515 Finally, we have taquine equine integration. 00:40:48.875 --> 00:40:51.495 If you know anything about our programs, you know that we need a 00:40:51.495 --> 00:40:55.495 really high standard of horsemanship in order to create the oxytocin 00:40:55.525 --> 00:40:59.815 in the body of the person that we're working with, child or adult. 00:41:00.255 --> 00:41:03.595 So, this means we need to train a horse in collection, but this 00:41:03.615 --> 00:41:07.855 also has a really beneficial effect on the horse's well being. 00:41:08.055 --> 00:41:12.345 And it also ends your time conflict, where you're wondering, oh my gosh, how 00:41:12.345 --> 00:41:15.645 am I going to condition my horses and maintain them and give them what they 00:41:15.645 --> 00:41:18.740 need, as well as Serving my clients. 00:41:18.980 --> 00:41:23.480 Takine equine integration aimed at a more adult client base 00:41:23.810 --> 00:41:25.460 absolutely gives you this. 00:41:25.520 --> 00:41:26.540 Nicole Jones: So, you know. 00:41:26.770 --> 00:41:31.190 Five and six year olds are teaching three and four year olds how to how to observe 00:41:31.190 --> 00:41:32.390 body animals operate heavy equipment. 00:41:32.395 --> 00:41:32.765 No, I'm kidding. 00:41:32.925 --> 00:41:33.125 Yeah. 00:41:33.130 --> 00:41:33.980 No, no, not yet. 00:41:34.100 --> 00:41:34.850 No, not yet. 00:41:35.130 --> 00:41:37.110 You know how to feed the animals? 00:41:37.160 --> 00:41:39.200 Well, you can't pull that in the garden. 00:41:39.200 --> 00:41:39.830 That's an herb. 00:41:39.860 --> 00:41:41.930 We, we don't pull that one, but you can pull this weed 00:41:41.930 --> 00:41:42.710 and go give it to the goats. 00:41:42.710 --> 00:41:43.850 So all of those things that. 00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:49.950 While us as teachers could interject more, not, we don't want to, we would have to 00:41:49.950 --> 00:41:53.970 be doing that if we didn't have that kind of peer modeling and mentorship going on. 00:41:54.030 --> 00:41:57.510 And it's not only good for the, the younger kids who get that peer-to-peer 00:41:57.510 --> 00:41:59.670 learning, but it's so beneficial. 00:41:59.835 --> 00:42:04.545 For the oldest kids in the classroom that then are building those leadership skills. 00:42:04.575 --> 00:42:08.065 And we start to see, especially that third year and this is true 00:42:08.065 --> 00:42:09.535 of Montessori classrooms as well. 00:42:09.755 --> 00:42:13.445 We see those kids in that third year start to really emerge as leaders because, you 00:42:13.445 --> 00:42:17.075 know, they've been through learning from other kids, they've learned from us. 00:42:17.265 --> 00:42:20.115 That second year is a lot more experimental in what they 00:42:20.115 --> 00:42:21.915 do and the boundaries they push and that sort of thing. 00:42:21.915 --> 00:42:25.035 And that third year we get like these really great leaders that know 00:42:25.035 --> 00:42:26.415 how everything works on the farm. 00:42:26.715 --> 00:42:29.415 They're, they're like the cool kids because they know where all the cool 00:42:29.415 --> 00:42:32.535 spots are and well, I know where to find this plant and I know where to get this. 00:42:32.535 --> 00:42:35.235 And so all these younger kids come to them and they, and they get to 00:42:35.505 --> 00:42:37.215 pass that on to the other kids. 00:42:37.455 --> 00:42:42.255 So we all already, with just the multi ages, get that sense of community 00:42:42.255 --> 00:42:46.635 building from kids just asking each other questions and kids wanting to, to help. 00:42:46.925 --> 00:42:49.025 And we do have a very good retention rate. 00:42:49.025 --> 00:42:50.375 We don't lose very many students. 00:42:50.375 --> 00:42:52.055 Most of them tend to stay with us. 00:42:52.125 --> 00:42:56.155 Typically we will where we lose students the most is that kindergartner, 00:42:56.155 --> 00:42:58.285 first grade year, the families that come to us that they're like, I 00:42:58.285 --> 00:43:01.255 just want something for a couple years before we send them to public. 00:43:01.555 --> 00:43:03.295 We do get that and we understand that. 00:43:03.485 --> 00:43:07.415 But the majority of our kids tend to retain and stay with us and, and 00:43:07.415 --> 00:43:09.365 then move up to the elementary class. 00:43:09.365 --> 00:43:10.805 So we're now in this. 00:43:10.985 --> 00:43:13.685 This year was really cool because this was the first year that we had 00:43:13.685 --> 00:43:16.865 kids go all the way through the three years in the early childhood class 00:43:16.865 --> 00:43:19.085 and then graduate up to elementary. 00:43:19.415 --> 00:43:24.845 And we've seen this cool change happen from our pilot year to now where 00:43:24.845 --> 00:43:28.715 we've just got these kids that have I don't wanna say more common sense, but 00:43:28.715 --> 00:43:32.945 more farm common sense because they, they've been with us for these three 00:43:32.945 --> 00:43:36.245 years and they know how everything works and they're, they're able 00:43:36.245 --> 00:43:37.805 to go deeper into their questions. 00:43:37.805 --> 00:43:43.265 While they may have studied chickens and horses and pollination and composting in 00:43:43.265 --> 00:43:47.375 the early childhood class, well now they get to dive even deeper in elementary 00:43:47.375 --> 00:43:52.205 and go way more into how this all works at a, at a science based level and not 00:43:52.205 --> 00:43:54.125 just, oh, this is, this is a cool lesson. 00:43:54.125 --> 00:43:57.935 And so, we already get that building of community just through 00:43:57.935 --> 00:44:00.815 the information sharing and the way they structure their day. 00:44:01.035 --> 00:44:04.215 Our class tends to get really connected really quickly. 00:44:04.215 --> 00:44:06.975 It's, it's a different class in August at the start of the school 00:44:06.975 --> 00:44:08.535 year than it is in December. 00:44:08.845 --> 00:44:13.375 Usually around November, December, we've seen the friendships deepen a lot. 00:44:13.375 --> 00:44:13.615 They've. 00:44:14.100 --> 00:44:17.940 They ha the kids have learned how the schedule of the day works, what, 00:44:18.030 --> 00:44:19.500 you know, how much freedom they have. 00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:22.710 Because a lot of times the, those new kids that come in, they have 00:44:22.710 --> 00:44:24.030 not spent a lot of time outdoors. 00:44:24.180 --> 00:44:27.240 Most half of our kids have never even had pets of any kind. 00:44:27.240 --> 00:44:30.660 I mean, not even a fish that, so a, a big chunk of our kids come 00:44:30.660 --> 00:44:33.120 and this is the first time they've ever been around animals at all. 00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:38.250 So we do a lot of working with read, observing and reading body language 00:44:38.250 --> 00:44:39.720 of animals, the sounds they make. 00:44:39.720 --> 00:44:43.320 And a lot of the older kids will help the younger ones learn that as well. 00:44:43.650 --> 00:44:46.710 And so anyway, by the time we get to November, December, our class 00:44:46.710 --> 00:44:51.150 has really normalized and, and we're not having to step in as much. 00:44:51.150 --> 00:44:55.500 We are really able to take a step back a lot and just watch the 00:44:55.500 --> 00:44:59.100 children spend their time on the farm and get into their projects and 00:44:59.100 --> 00:45:00.690 observe an anthill for 20 minutes. 00:45:00.690 --> 00:45:02.070 Go birdwatching. 00:45:02.070 --> 00:45:05.550 I mean, we have birds that build nests right next to the classroom, 00:45:05.550 --> 00:45:08.040 and then we get to hear the owls in the woods behind us. 00:45:08.040 --> 00:45:11.670 So they all go off and do their things and they play tag and do their games. 00:45:11.670 --> 00:45:15.690 But there's also so much immersive nature involved in it that the children that 00:45:15.690 --> 00:45:18.990 are interested in similar things tend to pair up and, and do things together. 00:45:18.990 --> 00:45:21.660 And so the, the friendships go grow really quick. 00:45:21.980 --> 00:45:26.870 And by November, December, we've got a really, really solid and connected class. 00:45:28.290 --> 00:45:30.690 Catherine Ward: To bounce off of something that she said about some of 00:45:30.690 --> 00:45:34.540 the kids that we lose that go to public school at kindergarten or first grade. 00:45:34.720 --> 00:45:38.000 They will come because our school are we actually go year round. 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:42.530 So we do a regular 10 month from August to May, but then we have a summer session. 00:45:42.590 --> 00:45:47.360 And so those kids have all come back every summer to do their 00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:49.190 two months of summer farm school. 00:45:49.220 --> 00:45:54.180 In between one of the, the students I don't remember if it was our pilot 00:45:54.180 --> 00:45:58.710 year or our second year, Nicole, but we had a, a mom come to us in tears. 00:45:58.950 --> 00:46:03.600 So this was during our interview process of her wanting to enroll her child and 00:46:03.600 --> 00:46:09.120 she was crying because her child had already been kicked out of three other 00:46:09.180 --> 00:46:14.160 preschools kicked out of preschool, and I. 00:46:14.160 --> 00:46:14.170 And 00:46:14.560 --> 00:46:15.020 Rupert Isaacson: for what? 00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:17.625 Catherine Ward: For moving, moving around and not napping, not 00:46:17.625 --> 00:46:19.335 sitting down, that sort of thing. 00:46:19.695 --> 00:46:21.105 And so being a kid basically. 00:46:21.105 --> 00:46:21.255 Yeah. 00:46:21.255 --> 00:46:21.780 Being, yeah. 00:46:21.825 --> 00:46:22.035 Yeah. 00:46:22.035 --> 00:46:22.845 Just being a kid. 00:46:23.115 --> 00:46:27.675 And so it didn't, now, while Nicole and I, we didn't show this to her, but 00:46:27.735 --> 00:46:31.515 we're we're shocked at the fact that a preschool would even kick a kid out. 00:46:31.515 --> 00:46:32.355 That was our shock. 00:46:32.535 --> 00:46:34.575 Our shock wasn't about, about the behavior. 00:46:34.965 --> 00:46:37.995 And, and so she's like, you're, so, you're gonna take him? 00:46:37.995 --> 00:46:39.315 And we're like, yeah, sure. 00:46:39.345 --> 00:46:40.275 You're not afraid. 00:46:40.275 --> 00:46:41.685 No, we're not afraid. 00:46:42.315 --> 00:46:42.675 No. 00:46:43.155 --> 00:46:50.085 And do you know that, that we never, not once had any problems with him. 00:46:50.085 --> 00:46:53.925 He needed that movement and all of that stuff. 00:46:54.285 --> 00:46:59.085 And so I think there are some kids that can conform. 00:46:59.505 --> 00:47:03.555 I don't think they perform at their top level, but there are also gonna be those 00:47:03.555 --> 00:47:08.535 kids that just cannot conform to an institution, institutionalized classroom. 00:47:08.535 --> 00:47:13.765 And and so he then they did send him on to public school after he finished with us. 00:47:14.035 --> 00:47:18.595 And but he comes back every, every summer and, and, and you don't 00:47:18.595 --> 00:47:22.135 Nicole Jones: have to tell him how to feed the goats and the, he remembers Yeah. 00:47:22.135 --> 00:47:23.275 From the year before. 00:47:23.275 --> 00:47:24.805 And so it has stuck with him. 00:47:25.135 --> 00:47:28.255 So it's, it's been nice to be able to see those kids come back and see 00:47:28.255 --> 00:47:32.785 how, how, how much that this place has meant to them and how it stuck with 00:47:32.785 --> 00:47:34.615 them even three, four years later. 00:47:34.955 --> 00:47:35.135 Yep. 00:47:35.315 --> 00:47:38.585 So that's a unique thing that I don't know of any other school that does 00:47:38.585 --> 00:47:41.535 that take, because even Montessori schools won't take kids during the 00:47:41.535 --> 00:47:43.005 summer that have been previous students. 00:47:43.005 --> 00:47:45.315 So it's kind of a unique thing we get to experience. 00:47:45.915 --> 00:47:46.095 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:47:46.095 --> 00:47:49.240 You guys have gluttons for punishment 'cause you get, you get no holiday no 00:47:49.240 --> 00:47:49.900 Catherine Ward: breaks tough. 00:47:50.230 --> 00:47:50.590 No. 00:47:50.685 --> 00:47:50.845 No. 00:47:50.950 --> 00:47:51.220 None. 00:47:51.640 --> 00:47:54.700 And I think too for like, say for that child, 'cause we have other kids 00:47:54.700 --> 00:47:55.990 that have gone on to public school. 00:47:56.270 --> 00:47:59.780 Actually we had one that went on to public school and then they took 'em out and 00:47:59.780 --> 00:48:03.470 brought them back to farm school because they were not performing well at all. 00:48:03.470 --> 00:48:05.840 And the kid just really wanted to be back at farm school. 00:48:06.080 --> 00:48:11.360 But like with the ones that do, on the ones that do go on, I think the 00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:15.800 amount of time that they've been given to become independent and 00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:21.470 autonomous and the confidence that they get from learning the skills, 00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:24.320 and I think they also learn patience. 00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:29.810 They, there are a lot of things that, that just stroke their, their personality, 00:48:30.260 --> 00:48:35.450 that they're, they are, they now have the skills to conform to those 00:48:35.450 --> 00:48:37.640 demands of an institutional classroom. 00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:40.610 Rupert Isaacson: What, what's interesting, what it sounds like 00:48:40.610 --> 00:48:44.290 what you're describing is, is emo the teaching of emotional intelligence. 00:48:44.525 --> 00:48:44.945 Catherine Ward: Mm-hmm. 00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:47.680 Rupert Isaacson: And you know, we all know Yeah. 00:48:47.680 --> 00:48:48.880 Academics are one thing. 00:48:49.060 --> 00:48:52.660 And we'll get into the academics you, you deliver and how you deliver them next. 00:48:53.210 --> 00:48:59.510 But we, listening to you talk makes me think of a, a, a, a really a. 00:48:59.810 --> 00:49:04.070 Great movement method teacher that we know in Colorado, Cade, who teaches at 00:49:04.070 --> 00:49:06.860 Evans Elementary in Colorado Springs. 00:49:06.860 --> 00:49:12.140 And he says that after about is, and this is very much within the, 00:49:12.500 --> 00:49:16.010 you know, the regular system, but of course he's taking the same approach. 00:49:16.820 --> 00:49:21.470 He says that by the time the kids are about 10 weeks in, their brains have 00:49:21.470 --> 00:49:26.690 developed to such a degree through the movement and the project based thing and 00:49:26.690 --> 00:49:32.870 the mutual support that they go from the standard sort of them and us teacher, you 00:49:32.870 --> 00:49:34.880 know, children versus the teacher thing. 00:49:34.910 --> 00:49:40.250 'cause that's obviously what they've, you know, come in with to being able to 00:49:40.670 --> 00:49:45.800 go off and learn independently in small groups in other parts of the school. 00:49:46.460 --> 00:49:49.160 And he says, you know, I send out my little spies, you know, to see what are 00:49:49.160 --> 00:49:52.995 they actually doing, you know, and yes, they are that, it's like he says the, 00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:56.940 the, the, the brain development that you have a different child after 10 weeks, 00:49:56.940 --> 00:50:01.440 the, the, the, the, the neuroplasticity has really kicked in and we, we see 00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:06.450 this time and again, but he's not able to work, you know, as as you are. 00:50:06.660 --> 00:50:09.870 Because you know, your campus is your own and you have the 00:50:09.870 --> 00:50:11.130 animals and, and so forth. 00:50:11.640 --> 00:50:13.560 Talk to me about. 00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:16.590 The academics that you deliver. 00:50:16.590 --> 00:50:21.870 So if I was a, if I was a, a parent, say, well, this all sounds great guys, but you 00:50:21.870 --> 00:50:26.220 know, I want my kid to go on and get their SATs, or if it was in English England, it 00:50:26.220 --> 00:50:29.580 would be their GCSEs or whatever, and I want 'em to get onto college and so on. 00:50:29.940 --> 00:50:34.020 Can you really tell me that this way you're going to deliver the 00:50:34.020 --> 00:50:35.730 national curriculum this way? 00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:41.490 I imagine that you're gonna say, well, yeah, sure, but tell me the nuts and 00:50:41.490 --> 00:50:45.240 bolts of, of how so, so, Nicole, I, I'll throw that one to you first. 00:50:45.600 --> 00:50:46.890 I'm the skeptical parent. 00:50:47.220 --> 00:50:49.590 Well, this all sounds great, but it sounds also a bit hippie. 00:50:50.100 --> 00:50:50.460 Okay. 00:50:50.550 --> 00:50:55.380 Hippies actually rule the world, but hey how can you reassure me that you are going 00:50:55.380 --> 00:51:01.020 to equip my child academically in the same way as if they were in the public school? 00:51:01.590 --> 00:51:01.830 Nicole Jones: Yeah. 00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:06.220 Well usually when I start out, parents typically will meet me at a torque. 00:51:06.250 --> 00:51:09.650 And so we walk them through the whole the farm, the classroom, go 00:51:09.650 --> 00:51:11.660 over the educational philosophy and go over the curriculum. 00:51:12.080 --> 00:51:15.950 And so at some point in there, I will throw in, I was homeschooled 00:51:15.950 --> 00:51:19.040 right here in this community, right next door to the farm. 00:51:19.040 --> 00:51:22.250 Like, so, and I turned out to be a normal human being. 00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:23.360 Normal human being. 00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:26.450 I went to college, I graduated high school with college credits, 00:51:26.450 --> 00:51:30.200 you know, so like, it, it, first of all, you're talking to somebody 00:51:30.200 --> 00:51:31.490 who's proof in the pudding, right? 00:51:31.520 --> 00:51:31.970 So Right. 00:51:32.240 --> 00:51:33.495 You're the proof of concept. 00:51:33.495 --> 00:51:33.775 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:51:33.800 --> 00:51:34.100 Right. 00:51:34.100 --> 00:51:34.670 Nicole Jones: Exactly. 00:51:34.670 --> 00:51:37.370 And so here we are just creating this. 00:51:37.745 --> 00:51:40.445 For while, while I did it at a a family level. 00:51:40.835 --> 00:51:44.135 Here we are creating this for a classroom, small class size level. 00:51:44.135 --> 00:51:47.245 And so, starting off with that, when people find out, oh, you were actually 00:51:47.245 --> 00:51:50.785 homeschooled and you went okay, it eases the conversation a little bit. 00:51:51.095 --> 00:51:54.915 But then when, when we walk through the indoor portion of class because 00:51:54.915 --> 00:51:57.825 the kids do spend two and a half hours outside before we even go 00:51:57.825 --> 00:51:59.295 in for any kind of academics. 00:51:59.295 --> 00:52:03.495 And then even when we go inside, they're eating first, washing their hands, getting 00:52:03.495 --> 00:52:07.035 some movement out a little bit more before we even sit into any kind of a lesson. 00:52:07.375 --> 00:52:11.005 And so our classroom, the early childhood classroom is set up as you would 00:52:11.005 --> 00:52:12.625 see a typical Montessori classroom. 00:52:12.625 --> 00:52:16.265 So we have fine motor work, practical life, all the things to 00:52:16.265 --> 00:52:18.675 help develop the hand for writing. 00:52:19.005 --> 00:52:22.095 We've got sensorial work, which is working with a lot of pieces, 00:52:22.095 --> 00:52:27.055 discrimination objects and things like that, math language and science. 00:52:27.055 --> 00:52:29.905 And our science and geography changes monthly depending on what we're 00:52:29.905 --> 00:52:31.435 studying and what the seasons bring us. 00:52:31.685 --> 00:52:36.845 So while we advertise, we are supplemental curriculum to what you're 00:52:36.845 --> 00:52:40.895 doing at home, we really do teach a full curriculum in that two and 00:52:40.895 --> 00:52:42.185 a half hours that they're indoors. 00:52:42.465 --> 00:52:47.115 And I've had classes as with as many as 40 kids, and in that two and a half 00:52:47.115 --> 00:52:50.835 hours, I get more done with those 13 kids than I ever got done in eight 00:52:50.835 --> 00:52:52.785 hours, even in a Montessori setting. 00:52:53.035 --> 00:52:55.105 And so, and our parents do get. 00:52:55.465 --> 00:52:59.455 A pretty comprehensive progress report twice a year of things that they're doing. 00:52:59.725 --> 00:53:03.325 And so they can look at those things and match it to, in Texas we have the 00:53:03.325 --> 00:53:07.775 teaks, that's the, our Texas educational code of what they're learning as far 00:53:07.775 --> 00:53:09.485 as math and reading and things goes. 00:53:09.485 --> 00:53:13.905 But we can teach anything from early numeracy and learning letter sounds 00:53:13.905 --> 00:53:18.405 to, you know, writing sentences and writing stories to long division. 00:53:18.405 --> 00:53:21.825 And so, because we also have the flexibility to be able to make curriculum 00:53:21.825 --> 00:53:25.015 as we need it you know, I've had some years, I've had a 6-year-old that 00:53:25.015 --> 00:53:27.625 was at like a fourth grade reading level, and so I just made things that 00:53:27.625 --> 00:53:32.445 she needed and got and for, you know, what she was on level for and we're 00:53:32.445 --> 00:53:34.755 able to adapt what the kids need. 00:53:34.845 --> 00:53:39.015 And so because it's a Montessori classroom that's already set up for your age range 00:53:39.015 --> 00:53:43.075 of about three years of an age range while it may look like how can you fit three 00:53:43.075 --> 00:53:47.215 years of curriculum in here, the materials that we're using and the curriculum that 00:53:47.215 --> 00:53:53.275 we create is so flexible in what we can do with them, that we can be using this 00:53:53.275 --> 00:53:56.785 for, you know, a 4-year-old and then also be using this for a 7-year-old 00:53:56.785 --> 00:53:58.675 in long division and multiplication. 00:53:58.675 --> 00:54:02.485 So, it's, it's very, the materials are very comprehensive in what they're, 00:54:02.515 --> 00:54:04.555 we're able to, to offer to them. 00:54:04.835 --> 00:54:07.865 So usually once we go through the curriculum areas and, and that 00:54:07.865 --> 00:54:10.285 sort of thing that we don't have too many skeptics after that. 00:54:10.595 --> 00:54:14.360 But, but typically and, and it, you know, we do have those people where it just 00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:16.550 doesn't fit with them and that's fine. 00:54:16.550 --> 00:54:19.520 We don't want them to come if, if, if that's not what they're about. 00:54:20.010 --> 00:54:23.970 It's, but typically the people that seek us out are wanting the small 00:54:23.970 --> 00:54:28.410 class size, the movement, the outdoors, the animals that typically is what, 00:54:28.680 --> 00:54:30.450 what the families that come to us. 00:54:30.450 --> 00:54:31.800 That's one of the things that they're wanting. 00:54:32.130 --> 00:54:35.970 And the, the families that get the most out of this are the ones that have 00:54:35.970 --> 00:54:38.280 academics lower on their, on their list. 00:54:38.500 --> 00:54:43.200 Because as we all know, everything that they do outdoors as far as the 00:54:43.200 --> 00:54:46.740 autonomy, going back to that, that creates so much executive functioning 00:54:46.740 --> 00:54:50.610 skills that, okay, if you've had two hours outside to be autonomous in what 00:54:50.610 --> 00:54:53.700 you wanna do with your day, well then when you get this big huge math problem, 00:54:53.970 --> 00:54:57.570 you now have the executive functioning skills to go through this math problem 00:54:57.570 --> 00:54:59.100 that might take you 20, 30 minutes. 00:54:59.350 --> 00:55:03.220 Whereas if I was leading you through your day and you don't know, I 00:55:03.220 --> 00:55:05.380 don't know how to get this math problem done, I need a teacher to 00:55:05.380 --> 00:55:06.850 sit here and tell me step by step. 00:55:07.210 --> 00:55:11.230 So we try and it's a lot of educating parents because a lot of them already 00:55:11.230 --> 00:55:14.170 have a feeling of, okay, I, I feel like this is right, but I don't know why. 00:55:14.170 --> 00:55:17.890 Like I, you know, I don't know how to justify it. 00:55:17.890 --> 00:55:19.330 And so once we're able to. 00:55:20.015 --> 00:55:23.030 To go through the science of it and, and show proof of concept. 00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:25.940 We really get a lot of people that just, they take a breath, 00:55:25.970 --> 00:55:27.320 okay, this, this is gonna be fine. 00:55:27.430 --> 00:55:30.145 And, and then the ones that, that don't, aren't attracted to those 00:55:30.145 --> 00:55:31.555 kinds of things, we, we send 'em off. 00:55:31.585 --> 00:55:34.525 We, we don't want, we don't want them in our program. 00:55:34.735 --> 00:55:36.175 Rupert Isaacson: Give, gimme a concrete example. 00:55:36.175 --> 00:55:38.815 Let's say I'm a kid and I, I'm having trouble with long division. 00:55:39.385 --> 00:55:42.295 How would you set up my day? 00:55:42.325 --> 00:55:45.115 Like I'm sure you're, you're strategizing right? 00:55:45.115 --> 00:55:48.715 Saying, okay, Rupert's got trouble with long division, so we're going to 00:55:50.005 --> 00:55:53.005 start his day like this, and then we're gonna look at this thing with animals. 00:55:53.005 --> 00:55:53.845 We're gonna look at this thing. 00:55:53.845 --> 00:55:56.215 We the horse, we're gonna look at this thing with the plants. 00:55:56.515 --> 00:56:02.905 And then once I am inside and I've gone through that and now I'm faced with the 00:56:02.905 --> 00:56:07.255 long division exercise, how do you present it to me and how do you help me through? 00:56:07.255 --> 00:56:09.595 So can you talk me through the day from start to finish? 00:56:09.595 --> 00:56:11.665 You've got you, you've got your eye on me. 00:56:11.695 --> 00:56:11.905 Okay. 00:56:11.905 --> 00:56:13.615 Root need to help with the long division. 00:56:13.735 --> 00:56:14.040 Off we go. 00:56:14.040 --> 00:56:14.320 Yeah. 00:56:14.965 --> 00:56:18.325 Nicole Jones: So I wanna make sure if I know that a kid's been struggling with 00:56:18.325 --> 00:56:22.125 something in particular I wanna make sure that they've gotten the opportunity 00:56:22.125 --> 00:56:23.415 to get the movement out in the morning. 00:56:23.685 --> 00:56:26.535 We have four different types of swings on the farm. 00:56:26.535 --> 00:56:29.835 So I, you, we try to have, make sure kids have opportunity for swinging. 00:56:30.115 --> 00:56:32.995 I tend to find a lot of the kids that struggle with. 00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:35.660 Reading will tend to be on the swing more. 00:56:35.660 --> 00:56:38.870 I don't know if that's a specific connection, it's just 00:56:38.870 --> 00:56:40.130 an observation that I've had. 00:56:40.350 --> 00:56:43.110 And so I don't know if it has to do with those oral skills and things 00:56:43.110 --> 00:56:44.370 like that, but I tend to see that. 00:56:44.650 --> 00:56:47.260 So we wanna make sure they've done what they want outside. 00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:48.610 They've gotten their movement out. 00:56:48.850 --> 00:56:50.860 They've spent lots of time with the animals. 00:56:50.890 --> 00:56:53.740 Usually that will really help if, if they can go spend more time with the 00:56:53.740 --> 00:56:55.360 goats or the chickens or the rabbits. 00:56:55.610 --> 00:56:59.210 It tends to calm the, the nervous system down before we go indoors. 00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:03.170 So I want to hopefully see them get some animal time as well, and not just 00:57:03.170 --> 00:57:05.030 the running and, and energetic stuff. 00:57:05.030 --> 00:57:06.320 So that tends to help. 00:57:06.600 --> 00:57:11.790 And then by the time we go indoors, we don't structure a kid's day and that okay, 00:57:11.790 --> 00:57:14.610 you have to start and we're immediately gonna do this math problem that you hate. 00:57:15.030 --> 00:57:19.260 Once kids in the early childhood class reach about six years old, they 00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:21.120 actually get a work plan for the week. 00:57:21.390 --> 00:57:25.020 And so it's, here's your things that you have to accomplish this week. 00:57:25.260 --> 00:57:29.010 You can pick Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and you get to 00:57:29.220 --> 00:57:30.690 structure your week as you see fit. 00:57:30.720 --> 00:57:35.310 Now that doesn't mean that because you have handwriting and reading this 00:57:35.310 --> 00:57:38.760 book with me and long division and multiplication, that you have to do that 00:57:39.090 --> 00:57:44.460 all first we allow for some art time or something else before we get to that. 00:57:44.460 --> 00:57:50.340 So it's more on the teachers to go, okay, let me observe and, and kind of 00:57:50.670 --> 00:57:54.510 help push them and guide them to get it done when we know it's about time. 00:57:54.900 --> 00:57:57.120 But we're still making sure that they have time for that autonomy 00:57:57.120 --> 00:57:57.900 and get those things done. 00:57:57.900 --> 00:58:01.350 So when it comes to that long division problem, maybe they didn't wanna do it on 00:58:01.350 --> 00:58:02.970 Monday, maybe it's coming up on Wednesday. 00:58:02.970 --> 00:58:08.310 So I know on Wednesday I need to make sure that around 1130 we're gonna get 00:58:08.310 --> 00:58:09.720 started with that long division problem. 00:58:10.170 --> 00:58:13.320 We, one of the things that's unique about Montessori materials, 00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:16.860 especially in the math curriculum, is everything is concrete. 00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:18.780 Nothing is done on paper first. 00:58:18.780 --> 00:58:22.140 Everything is done with very physical materials first before 00:58:22.140 --> 00:58:23.700 you ever get to anything on paper. 00:58:23.940 --> 00:58:26.040 And that's also something we have to explain is that you're 00:58:26.040 --> 00:58:29.730 not to parents, you're not going to see a lot of work come home. 00:58:29.980 --> 00:58:33.790 And while that made to you look like, oh my gosh, my kid didn't do anything 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:37.690 academic because it didn't come home on paper, it's because we're using the 00:58:37.690 --> 00:58:42.520 physical materials in school and they might not be at the point where they're 00:58:42.520 --> 00:58:45.130 writing it down on paper yet, because that's a little bit too abstract. 00:58:45.310 --> 00:58:49.310 Now, eventually we get to that, but we're working with place value. 00:58:49.310 --> 00:58:54.470 So the unit bead, the 10 bar, the a hundred square, the thousand cubes. 00:58:54.470 --> 00:58:58.460 So they're understanding quantities and place values before we get to 00:58:58.460 --> 00:59:00.530 those really hard problems on paper. 00:59:00.680 --> 00:59:05.330 So they start doing addition, subtraction, multiplication, division with the 00:59:05.330 --> 00:59:07.850 quantities before it ever gets onto paper. 00:59:08.150 --> 00:59:10.730 So then by the time they're really familiar with that, well then we 00:59:10.730 --> 00:59:11.900 can actually start doing it on. 00:59:12.150 --> 00:59:16.410 Paper with the materials, because by then they're already starting to get it. 00:59:16.410 --> 00:59:20.670 And these kids will already start to, to visualize the math in their head. 00:59:20.730 --> 00:59:24.180 And it's when they get about to the point where they're no longer using 00:59:24.180 --> 00:59:28.600 the materials that they're just telling you, oh, I know the answer is 2,192. 00:59:28.630 --> 00:59:30.370 Well then, okay, we're ready for paper now. 00:59:30.580 --> 00:59:32.530 We can, we can get rid of that and go to paper. 00:59:32.780 --> 00:59:36.320 And so a lot of it is the, the preparatory work for the day, just 00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:39.680 making sure they've had their outlet for sensory and movement needs. 00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:42.620 And then they also have autonomy of when they do those really hard 00:59:42.620 --> 00:59:43.820 things that they may not like. 00:59:43.850 --> 00:59:48.830 Now it's, it's not that I say, okay, well you get to do whatever you want this week. 00:59:48.830 --> 00:59:52.490 You do have to get these certain things done because we do need to ensure you 00:59:52.490 --> 00:59:56.810 are getting reading done, you are getting your math done, but there's avenues in 00:59:56.810 --> 00:59:58.880 which way you can choose to get that done. 00:59:58.970 --> 01:00:03.740 So maybe we're not reading a book, maybe we're matching parts of a story. 01:00:03.740 --> 01:00:07.520 So we, you know, we have a book with sentences and they have to match pictures 01:00:07.520 --> 01:00:11.210 to the correct page or we're matching pictures towards, so there's different, 01:00:11.600 --> 01:00:13.210 different reading aspects we can do. 01:00:13.210 --> 01:00:16.820 We've also got where they have to read an activity and so then 01:00:16.820 --> 01:00:18.530 it's like, go jump on a rug. 01:00:18.830 --> 01:00:19.850 So then they go jump on a rug. 01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:21.440 Okay, go find a cup. 01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:24.050 And so then we've got movement involved in the reading and they're 01:00:24.050 --> 01:00:26.390 moving around the classroom, but they're still doing reading. 01:00:26.700 --> 01:00:28.320 So those are the kinds of things that we kind of. 01:00:28.445 --> 01:00:30.215 Add into the class to, to make it work. 01:00:30.215 --> 01:00:31.175 I don't know if that answers 01:00:31.235 --> 01:00:32.195 Rupert Isaacson: No, it totally makes sense. 01:00:32.495 --> 01:00:32.525 Okay. 01:00:32.525 --> 01:00:36.395 And, and I, I think it's really useful to have this broken down for people because, 01:00:36.425 --> 01:00:41.495 you know, you know, and I know we've gone through this period, this process 01:00:41.495 --> 01:00:43.115 of having to learn to become educators. 01:00:43.715 --> 01:00:44.915 I did it kicking and screaming. 01:00:44.915 --> 01:00:46.625 I didn't want to be, I just kind of had to. 01:00:47.025 --> 01:00:49.425 And then how to break these things down, as you say, you know, doing 01:00:49.605 --> 01:00:53.655 with physical things and then moving from physical things with moving. 01:00:53.655 --> 01:00:56.595 'cause when you move, when you use physical things, you are still moving. 01:00:56.600 --> 01:00:56.920 Right. 01:00:56.925 --> 01:00:58.545 And then to the abstract. 01:00:58.875 --> 01:01:02.605 And then as you say, making sure that the, the sensory and 01:01:02.605 --> 01:01:04.105 physical needs are met first. 01:01:04.105 --> 01:01:09.415 And as you know, with movement method, we sort of sprinkle the concept 01:01:09.445 --> 01:01:15.685 into the movement long before we ask a kid to tackle an exercise. 01:01:15.685 --> 01:01:19.075 If you, if you like, and I, I know with Montessori it's very similar, you know, 01:01:19.135 --> 01:01:24.015 Catherine, when you, when you are now dealing with the elementary kids and 01:01:24.135 --> 01:01:31.495 it's getting a little bit more academic based again, how, and, and this kid 01:01:31.495 --> 01:01:37.225 might well, will, is gonna have to, at this stage, transition back into 01:01:37.415 --> 01:01:41.015 something more mainstream by the time they hit middle school or high school. 01:01:41.285 --> 01:01:44.675 So you, you have that presumably in your mind, okay, I have to prepare 01:01:44.675 --> 01:01:47.825 these kids to be able to thrive. 01:01:47.825 --> 01:01:47.885 I. 01:01:48.765 --> 01:01:52.335 When they don't have the luxury of one acre farm what are your 01:01:52.335 --> 01:01:58.845 strategies for making sure that that transition happens at least 01:01:58.845 --> 01:02:02.365 academically, relatively seamlessly? 01:02:03.745 --> 01:02:06.655 Catherine Ward: I would first say that most, most of our elementary 01:02:06.655 --> 01:02:09.775 kids are obviously because of their age, they're being homeschooled. 01:02:10.495 --> 01:02:10.705 Mm-hmm. 01:02:10.705 --> 01:02:15.235 Most of them continue to be homeschooled even after they're done with 01:02:15.595 --> 01:02:16.015 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:02:16.015 --> 01:02:16.495 After they out. 01:02:16.495 --> 01:02:18.265 So you, you are like a homeschooling backup. 01:02:18.265 --> 01:02:18.895 You like. 01:02:19.195 --> 01:02:19.465 Yes. 01:02:19.525 --> 01:02:22.825 They would consider sending them to home one acre farm even though it's 01:02:22.825 --> 01:02:25.735 a school as part of homeschooling, even though it is actually Yes. 01:02:25.765 --> 01:02:29.515 Sort of isn't really homeschooling, but Okay, I see what in those parents' 01:02:29.515 --> 01:02:30.835 mind, it comes under that banner. 01:02:31.210 --> 01:02:31.600 Catherine Ward: Yes. 01:02:31.600 --> 01:02:34.960 Well, and, and Nicole said the, the word earlier that we're supplemental, 01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:38.920 so we don't advertise and say we are a full curriculum school. 01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:39.010 Right. 01:02:39.040 --> 01:02:41.320 We are supplemental education. 01:02:41.320 --> 01:02:41.410 Right. 01:02:41.740 --> 01:02:45.750 So, now while the early childhood that Nicole is over is a 01:02:45.750 --> 01:02:47.160 full four day program mm-hmm. 01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:49.470 Some kids only go two days. 01:02:49.870 --> 01:02:53.050 The elementary is not offered all four days. 01:02:53.425 --> 01:02:56.515 For right now, we've chosen just two days out of the week. 01:02:56.825 --> 01:03:01.325 Mainly because our philosophy of thinking is that, well, if you're, if 01:03:01.325 --> 01:03:04.895 you have a child at home, age seven to 10, you've chosen to homeschool. 01:03:04.895 --> 01:03:09.635 So the bulk of their academics are gonna be taught at home. 01:03:09.635 --> 01:03:10.895 And so we're supplemental. 01:03:10.895 --> 01:03:12.965 So they come to us for two days out of the week. 01:03:13.235 --> 01:03:15.755 Now that doesn't mean that we don't focus on academics. 01:03:15.755 --> 01:03:22.075 We certainly do interconnect them, but we're not providing a full math curriculum 01:03:22.345 --> 01:03:24.705 or a full language arts curriculum. 01:03:25.155 --> 01:03:29.085 So our, our elementary is more focused on the sciences. 01:03:29.260 --> 01:03:31.810 Of, of all of the animals, animal husbandry. 01:03:32.140 --> 01:03:37.370 But within the studying of those animals and gardening we, we bring 01:03:37.370 --> 01:03:41.990 in reading because they then have to read books, do book reports. 01:03:42.180 --> 01:03:46.860 We bring in geography and history because we study the migration of animals, whether 01:03:46.860 --> 01:03:48.960 it was natural or through explorers. 01:03:49.410 --> 01:03:54.270 And, but through that, my main focus, because they think it's fun 01:03:54.270 --> 01:03:58.080 at this point, a book report is not something they roll their eyes at. 01:03:58.260 --> 01:04:00.840 They're excited to write something about chickens. 01:04:01.290 --> 01:04:05.770 And we take it much like Nicole describes taking things in steps. 01:04:05.860 --> 01:04:08.960 We start off teaching them observation skills. 01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:11.030 When they're outside, we want them to observe. 01:04:11.300 --> 01:04:14.270 And then with nature journaling, what are, what are you observing? 01:04:14.270 --> 01:04:15.080 Write that down. 01:04:15.080 --> 01:04:15.710 What are some? 01:04:15.980 --> 01:04:19.190 And if they're not writers yet, then, then we'll, we'll write for them as they 01:04:19.190 --> 01:04:21.840 dictate what are, what are the adjectives? 01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:26.370 What are we, we want them to become more creative in their writing as they observe. 01:04:26.700 --> 01:04:31.170 So then when they come inside then they can take those skills. 01:04:31.170 --> 01:04:34.990 And, and I really try to give them observation skills of what are they 01:04:34.990 --> 01:04:39.070 observing in the books and how to express yourself in writing, how to 01:04:39.070 --> 01:04:41.950 write complete thoughts within sentences. 01:04:42.310 --> 01:04:42.910 And. 01:04:43.350 --> 01:04:45.510 And so they, they come to that. 01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:49.380 So my, while my focus is studying about the animals, I'm not trying 01:04:49.380 --> 01:04:53.640 to get them a vet degree, but it is a means to an end, I guess. 01:04:53.640 --> 01:04:56.910 So we use the animals and their interest in all of that to 01:04:56.910 --> 01:04:58.440 get those other subjects in. 01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:03.630 And so hopefully when they're done, if they leave us at age 10, then they've, 01:05:03.810 --> 01:05:07.590 they've got those writing skills and those research skills and those things 01:05:07.590 --> 01:05:11.400 that they need as a foundation to transition into middle school, whether 01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:13.860 it's institutionalized or, or at home. 01:05:14.490 --> 01:05:18.250 And and so right now, the way we have the curriculum set up, the 01:05:18.250 --> 01:05:22.060 parents don't come in expecting that they're going to be getting algebra 01:05:22.060 --> 01:05:24.100 or, or pre-algebra or any of that. 01:05:24.380 --> 01:05:27.470 They're very accepting of the curriculum that, that we provide. 01:05:28.520 --> 01:05:30.560 Rupert Isaacson: Would you rise to the challenge of 01:05:30.560 --> 01:05:31.940 doing algebra and pre-algebra? 01:05:32.860 --> 01:05:37.930 Catherine Ward: I, I would, you and I have had these conversations, I 01:05:37.930 --> 01:05:42.830 would I would, I would have to take a refresher course myself a little bit. 01:05:43.400 --> 01:05:48.260 But one thing I will say that we've added this year that has, we're, 'cause every 01:05:48.260 --> 01:05:50.480 year we, we tend to kick it up a notch. 01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:54.400 We add more and we make the program a lot a lot more flourishing. 01:05:54.730 --> 01:05:58.150 And so this year, while it doesn't have to do with algebra, we are 01:05:58.150 --> 01:06:00.190 doing a presentation project. 01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:02.890 So the kids, in fact, we're on spring break right now. 01:06:02.890 --> 01:06:05.890 They come back next week and they're gonna spend about five weeks 01:06:05.890 --> 01:06:07.900 in teams with a subject matter. 01:06:08.200 --> 01:06:11.370 And then we're gonna have a presentation night where all the families at the 01:06:11.370 --> 01:06:15.240 home of the farm school are invited in and they're gonna have these 01:06:15.240 --> 01:06:19.990 display boards and be able to give speeches and talk about their display 01:06:19.990 --> 01:06:21.070 and the things that they've learned. 01:06:21.070 --> 01:06:24.130 And so that's something we've never done in the elementary program before. 01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:26.240 So we're adding that this year. 01:06:26.600 --> 01:06:29.780 And we have discussed, I can tell you that, that. 01:06:30.125 --> 01:06:33.635 Probably half of our parents in the elementary ask, when 01:06:33.635 --> 01:06:35.015 are you gonna offer a four day? 01:06:35.015 --> 01:06:38.435 Because they would send their child here for the whole four days. 01:06:38.735 --> 01:06:42.875 We, Nicole and I just have not made it to that decision level yet. 01:06:42.935 --> 01:06:43.865 There's a lot of working parts. 01:06:43.865 --> 01:06:44.195 I'm sure that's a 01:06:44.195 --> 01:06:45.485 Rupert Isaacson: staffing issue too. 01:06:45.635 --> 01:06:45.860 Yeah, it's, 01:06:45.910 --> 01:06:50.350 Catherine Ward: Very much so because the, the other two days that I'm not teaching, 01:06:50.530 --> 01:06:56.140 well, that's when I'm on the tractor doing tractor work or, or fence repairs or, so 01:06:56.140 --> 01:07:02.050 if I now then had to teach four days when, and I'm still doing, and then the autism 01:07:02.290 --> 01:07:03.340 Nicole Jones: sessions as well, right? 01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:03.670 Catherine Ward: Yeah. 01:07:03.730 --> 01:07:07.060 So when school is over at, in the afternoon, I'm doing 01:07:07.060 --> 01:07:08.440 private autism sessions. 01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:14.080 So unless you can find a, a doctor to clone a me Yeah. 01:07:14.080 --> 01:07:17.800 So, so it's a logistical staffing issue to not expand that more. 01:07:17.800 --> 01:07:22.390 But yes, we do have visions of expanding and possibly expanding curriculum. 01:07:22.730 --> 01:07:24.530 We're just not, we're just not there yet. 01:07:24.980 --> 01:07:28.430 Rupert Isaacson: Well, you'll be pleased to know, i'm on it as well because those 01:07:28.430 --> 01:07:32.130 people that know movement method, now math and science curriculums know that I don't 01:07:32.130 --> 01:07:34.950 write those because I'm not qualified to. 01:07:34.950 --> 01:07:38.670 So I, you know, I, I could figure out the very early basic stuff with 01:07:38.670 --> 01:07:43.660 homeschooling, but as you guys know we turned to an amazing man called Dr. 01:07:43.900 --> 01:07:48.710 Alfred Ziegler who was a he's retired from there now, but he was a, a 01:07:48.710 --> 01:07:52.430 physics professor at the University of Ossner Brook, which is a very 01:07:52.430 --> 01:07:53.960 prestigious university in Germany. 01:07:53.990 --> 01:07:59.120 And he came up with all our higher math and science movement method curriculum. 01:07:59.510 --> 01:08:02.300 And so I've just been making a little note to myself here. 01:08:02.690 --> 01:08:03.590 I go back to Dr. 01:08:03.590 --> 01:08:07.910 Alfie for our kinetic al algebra stuff, please. 01:08:08.060 --> 01:08:11.960 So I'm gonna ask him for those and I'll, I'll probably do that in the next week 01:08:11.960 --> 01:08:17.395 or two, and then I'll then circulate that to you all to use as you wish. 01:08:17.515 --> 01:08:18.075 That'd be great. 01:08:18.075 --> 01:08:18.475 Thank you. 01:08:18.505 --> 01:08:22.015 'Cause yeah, it's, it's hard to come up with these things by oneself. 01:08:22.015 --> 01:08:25.225 And I think, I think that's, that's one of the difficulties about homeschooling 01:08:25.325 --> 01:08:31.865 when I'm advising people is say, you know, don't think of homeschooling as you 01:08:31.865 --> 01:08:35.645 and your kids sitting at a table, both driving each other, nuts, both wanting 01:08:35.645 --> 01:08:37.235 to kill each other and yourselves. 01:08:37.625 --> 01:08:38.585 No, no, no, no, no. 01:08:38.585 --> 01:08:41.135 You've gotta, you've gotta reach out for mentorship yourself. 01:08:42.695 --> 01:08:47.125 Get the curriculum from people that know how to do the curriculum and build a 01:08:47.125 --> 01:08:49.835 team, you know, whatever that looks like. 01:08:50.175 --> 01:08:56.055 So that it's not just about maybe that person can teach that thing, 01:08:56.205 --> 01:08:59.775 that subject better, but also it's the socialization thing. 01:08:59.835 --> 01:09:02.325 You know, we need more than one personality involved. 01:09:02.325 --> 01:09:05.175 We need, you know, and, and then as you say, where, where are those 01:09:05.175 --> 01:09:08.325 collective homeschool groups so that they can have the socialization 01:09:08.325 --> 01:09:09.705 with the other kids as well. 01:09:09.945 --> 01:09:13.365 And you guys, of course, have done something rather remarkable, which is 01:09:13.365 --> 01:09:19.015 to corral that into a one dedicated physical location rather than having 01:09:19.015 --> 01:09:22.615 to do, you know, a homeschool group, you know, session here, homeschool 01:09:22.885 --> 01:09:25.195 session over there in that household, that household, that household. 01:09:25.435 --> 01:09:28.645 Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's just logistically easier for 01:09:28.645 --> 01:09:33.055 families, I think, you know, to, and, and, and nice also for a kid to have a campus. 01:09:33.475 --> 01:09:36.385 So you, you mentioned the staffing issues. 01:09:36.415 --> 01:09:42.925 It, it, how many people are there working now currently, and I'm sure you 01:09:42.925 --> 01:09:45.805 are under pressure to expand and I'm, I'm sure you're also under pressure 01:09:46.105 --> 01:09:47.875 to move into middle high school. 01:09:48.745 --> 01:09:49.105 Catherine Ward: Yes. 01:09:49.195 --> 01:09:50.845 Rupert Isaacson: How, what, what are your plans for that? 01:09:51.710 --> 01:09:53.570 Catherine Ward: We certainly talk about it a lot. 01:09:54.020 --> 01:09:55.995 I I don't, so your listeners may not know this. 01:09:55.995 --> 01:10:00.085 You said something earlier about doing with what you have and, and I 01:10:00.145 --> 01:10:04.825 am a self-proclaimed, I am the queen of, I make do with what I've got. 01:10:05.245 --> 01:10:08.935 When, when my girls wanted to show animals for four H and we didn't have 01:10:08.935 --> 01:10:13.675 a pickup truck, we had a family van, I have shoved pigs and goats in the 01:10:13.675 --> 01:10:17.185 back of the family van because that's what's my, what my girls wanted to do. 01:10:17.545 --> 01:10:21.205 So that's, that has been a constant in my personality. 01:10:21.565 --> 01:10:26.695 And so, with one acre farm, we truly are one acre and I have fit 01:10:26.695 --> 01:10:31.015 into that one acre as much as we can over the last 25 years or so. 01:10:31.435 --> 01:10:36.175 And then when Nicole and I when we had talked about opening a school, every 01:10:36.175 --> 01:10:39.505 time that I would approach the state about it, they wouldn't approve it. 01:10:39.845 --> 01:10:43.235 That, oddly enough they, one of the reasons they didn't wanna approve a 01:10:43.235 --> 01:10:46.355 school is because they didn't wanna have a mix of animals and kids. 01:10:47.585 --> 01:10:51.525 And so, how we were eventually able to start the farm school. 01:10:51.525 --> 01:10:54.435 It's actually considered another category of learning pod is 01:10:54.435 --> 01:10:57.915 that when COVID happened and all the schools closed, pretty much 01:10:57.915 --> 01:10:59.325 everybody became a homeschooler. 01:10:59.685 --> 01:11:04.095 And so the state of Texas then redefined the definition of school 01:11:04.185 --> 01:11:06.795 and they came up with learning pod. 01:11:07.185 --> 01:11:11.535 And so the very people that had declined me, contacted me and 01:11:11.535 --> 01:11:12.825 pretty much said, guess what? 01:11:12.825 --> 01:11:18.165 We have this place, this, this category of an umbrella that you can exist. 01:11:18.405 --> 01:11:20.385 So that's how we then said, guess what? 01:11:20.415 --> 01:11:21.675 We're gonna go ahead and open up. 01:11:23.625 --> 01:11:28.755 As far as as growth and expansion when we, when we started, it was 01:11:28.755 --> 01:11:32.865 gonna be outdoors only the whole time, but then we quickly realized there 01:11:32.865 --> 01:11:37.120 needed to be some, some type of indoor portion because, and that's a tall 01:11:37.120 --> 01:11:39.715 Rupert Isaacson: order in the Houston climate where it gets Oh, it is. 01:11:39.715 --> 01:11:40.495 Well, and yeah. 01:11:40.495 --> 01:11:41.245 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:11:41.245 --> 01:11:43.195 Catherine Ward: Not just for the comfort of the students and the 01:11:43.195 --> 01:11:44.875 teachers, but also resources. 01:11:44.875 --> 01:11:44.935 Yeah. 01:11:45.205 --> 01:11:47.335 I have had so many books ruin. 01:11:47.445 --> 01:11:50.865 In my outdoor classroom, even though I have a bookshelf because of the 01:11:50.865 --> 01:11:53.025 humidity and they just mold and so forth. 01:11:53.055 --> 01:11:53.115 Yeah. 01:11:53.355 --> 01:11:58.035 So I'm very, very fortunate in the structure of my home that it 01:11:58.035 --> 01:12:00.925 has very two large living rooms. 01:12:00.925 --> 01:12:04.465 And so one living room at the back of the house is attached to the kitchen. 01:12:04.615 --> 01:12:05.095 Kitchen. 01:12:05.095 --> 01:12:06.745 It's one huge space. 01:12:07.105 --> 01:12:10.525 And again, when we started the farm school, it was only the early childhood. 01:12:10.525 --> 01:12:12.235 We had not started the elementary yet. 01:12:12.655 --> 01:12:17.425 So, we, I took out all of my living room furniture that was no longer a living 01:12:17.425 --> 01:12:19.645 room, and we created a classroom in there. 01:12:19.645 --> 01:12:22.135 So that's where Nicole's early childhood is. 01:12:22.135 --> 01:12:26.455 And there's just bookshelves and bookshelves and all of their work trays 01:12:26.455 --> 01:12:32.335 and the, the rugs and, and so we've got a small Montessori inspired classroom there. 01:12:32.725 --> 01:12:36.955 And and so then I, I was again, the queen of make do, so we made 01:12:36.955 --> 01:12:40.255 do, it's no longer a personal space that's now an indoor classroom. 01:12:40.655 --> 01:12:45.095 We thought parents would, now some parents come in thinking this is 01:12:45.095 --> 01:12:49.115 a little weird, but then other parents embrace it and love it. 01:12:49.415 --> 01:12:54.275 And I'm so encouraged because my, my mother was a teacher at some point. 01:12:54.275 --> 01:12:57.605 My grandmother was a teacher and my great-grandmother was a teacher. 01:12:57.995 --> 01:13:00.335 And I remember my grandmother opened up. 01:13:00.870 --> 01:13:02.970 Kindergarten in half of her house. 01:13:03.270 --> 01:13:07.110 So I just kind of felt like this is all natural and normal to me 01:13:07.110 --> 01:13:08.640 to put a classroom in your house. 01:13:09.070 --> 01:13:14.860 Then when we added the elementary, we did have it strictly outdoors the whole time, 01:13:14.860 --> 01:13:18.640 the first year, and then that's when a lot of our resources were just ruining 01:13:18.730 --> 01:13:22.450 in the, I put 'em in Ziploc bags, I'd do whatever I could to protect them, but the 01:13:22.450 --> 01:13:25.120 humidity was just awful on the resources. 01:13:25.570 --> 01:13:31.190 So then I have another humongous living room that Nicole 01:13:31.190 --> 01:13:32.180 and I said, you know what? 01:13:32.180 --> 01:13:34.880 Well, what if we just kind of divided that room in half? 01:13:35.120 --> 01:13:41.390 So half of it still has my TV and my sofa so that I can, you know, enjoy 01:13:41.390 --> 01:13:42.770 watching something if I want to. 01:13:43.100 --> 01:13:46.760 And then the other half is now bookshelves and classroom. 01:13:47.230 --> 01:13:51.820 I have something very unique that my grandfather and my 01:13:51.820 --> 01:13:55.415 father built a huge 12 foot. 01:13:56.155 --> 01:14:00.385 Oak table as when I was a child, I still have that table. 01:14:00.385 --> 01:14:04.345 So that is the table in the, the classroom, but it's also our family 01:14:04.345 --> 01:14:05.935 table where we gather on Sundays. 01:14:06.265 --> 01:14:11.395 So that room has become very dual purpose from u using, using it as a classroom and 01:14:11.395 --> 01:14:13.515 then using it for my own personal space. 01:14:13.905 --> 01:14:17.625 Our goal right now and in our fundraising is to try to raise money so that we can 01:14:17.625 --> 01:14:22.755 actually build a two room schoolhouse on the farm property and remove it from 01:14:23.025 --> 01:14:26.075 the home and, and onto into a classroom. 01:14:26.075 --> 01:14:27.245 So there's that expansion. 01:14:27.245 --> 01:14:27.395 Well, you 01:14:27.395 --> 01:14:28.145 Rupert Isaacson: know what happened with that? 01:14:28.145 --> 01:14:30.785 You'll just end up with four classrooms, just two ones in the house will 01:14:30.785 --> 01:14:33.275 stay, and then you'll just have two extra ones in the new structure. 01:14:33.275 --> 01:14:33.335 Yeah, 01:14:33.905 --> 01:14:34.295 Nicole Jones: I know. 01:14:34.295 --> 01:14:36.065 Then it goes back to a staffing problem after 01:14:36.065 --> 01:14:36.365 Catherine Ward: Right. 01:14:36.365 --> 01:14:36.870 Then the staff. 01:14:37.025 --> 01:14:37.325 Yeah. 01:14:37.755 --> 01:14:38.325 Staffing. 01:14:38.325 --> 01:14:39.795 So Nicole is the lead teacher. 01:14:39.795 --> 01:14:42.765 I'm the lead teacher, and then she and I both have assistants 01:14:43.095 --> 01:14:45.615 and the demographic of the class. 01:14:45.675 --> 01:14:51.735 Out of my 16 students four to five are neurodivergent. 01:14:52.155 --> 01:14:57.255 We have a couple of them that do need shadows because of communication. 01:14:57.525 --> 01:15:01.635 So while they are not staff, my staff, they are two other adults 01:15:01.635 --> 01:15:04.875 that are there, but their attention is supposed to be specifically for 01:15:04.875 --> 01:15:07.285 those, for those nonverbal kids there. 01:15:07.765 --> 01:15:11.485 And then so it's, it's really just two teachers and two assistants. 01:15:11.945 --> 01:15:16.265 It can be, it can be hard, like when we've lost teachers before, like we 01:15:16.265 --> 01:15:20.495 had one that that ended up moving and I think Nicole, what was it? 01:15:20.495 --> 01:15:22.955 We went through like six applicants or something. 01:15:22.980 --> 01:15:23.430 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, sure. 01:15:23.470 --> 01:15:25.670 I mean, it's, it's a set of skills that not everyone can. 01:15:25.985 --> 01:15:26.405 Catherine Ward: Yeah. 01:15:26.405 --> 01:15:30.215 And, and I would say each one of them like came for a day and then 01:15:30.215 --> 01:15:31.685 they're like, yeah, this isn't for us. 01:15:31.685 --> 01:15:36.815 Because it is, you've, you've got to love kids, love animals, wanna 01:15:37.595 --> 01:15:40.085 understand the yes environment. 01:15:40.085 --> 01:15:45.245 There are a lot of people that cannot comprehend and accept the freedom and 01:15:45.245 --> 01:15:47.225 the au autonomy that the kids have. 01:15:47.585 --> 01:15:50.405 And then you, you gotta be okay with being dirty. 01:15:50.405 --> 01:15:55.895 And so the, the finding a person that has that perfect storm can be very, 01:15:55.895 --> 01:15:57.995 very, very difficult to, to find. 01:15:57.995 --> 01:15:58.055 Yeah. 01:15:58.895 --> 01:16:00.275 Nicole, you were gonna say something? 01:16:01.100 --> 01:16:03.230 Nicole Jones: Yeah, well, I was gonna say exactly what you said, also, the 01:16:03.230 --> 01:16:08.690 being outdoors even, you know, for two to three hours at a time in our climate, 01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:11.540 especially in the summer, it just, people are like, Nope, I can't do it. 01:16:11.540 --> 01:16:13.910 And even though they might be on board with everything else, that's 01:16:13.910 --> 01:16:14.930 something that keeps it away. 01:16:14.930 --> 01:16:16.925 So, yeah, I think unfortunately your climate 01:16:16.945 --> 01:16:17.725 Rupert Isaacson: is particularly extreme. 01:16:17.795 --> 01:16:18.405 Yeah, yeah, 01:16:18.405 --> 01:16:18.740 Nicole Jones: yeah, yeah. 01:16:19.130 --> 01:16:19.400 Yep. 01:16:20.590 --> 01:16:21.520 Rupert Isaacson: How do you fund it? 01:16:21.790 --> 01:16:28.540 So obviously people pay to send their kids to you but you know, you can only 01:16:30.250 --> 01:16:32.950 have a certain number of kids because you are a certain number of people. 01:16:32.950 --> 01:16:34.090 You've got a certain amount of space. 01:16:34.630 --> 01:16:39.850 So what outside of the actual school fees that you charge, 01:16:41.110 --> 01:16:42.970 how, how do you fund what you do? 01:16:43.660 --> 01:16:46.650 Catherine Ward: The, the school programs are very fortunate that 01:16:46.650 --> 01:16:49.440 they do fund the programs completely. 01:16:49.770 --> 01:16:53.460 And then the other programs that we have during the week or during the month, 01:16:53.460 --> 01:16:57.820 like the story time and the autism sessions and the kids aren't in play. 01:16:57.820 --> 01:17:01.330 Those programs also funnel money into it. 01:17:01.330 --> 01:17:06.340 So as far as, you know, paying, paying the feed bill and paying salaries and 01:17:06.340 --> 01:17:08.350 that kind of stuff is all covered there. 01:17:08.590 --> 01:17:13.660 What becomes a challenge is the huge chunks of money that we need for 01:17:13.660 --> 01:17:15.550 like a new classroom or something. 01:17:15.970 --> 01:17:20.710 Before we had the elementary, I was a lot more connected and going to all 01:17:20.710 --> 01:17:22.480 of the Chamber of Commerce meetings. 01:17:22.480 --> 01:17:27.280 And in the evenings I would go and speak to different community groups and stuff. 01:17:27.670 --> 01:17:32.370 But now that the administrative duties and the teaching duties and everything 01:17:32.370 --> 01:17:34.800 else, I, my time is just so stretched. 01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:39.690 I have now been so disconnected from being able to be out there presenting it to, 01:17:39.810 --> 01:17:47.010 to the, to the community for those kinds of donations and, so while we, we do fund 01:17:47.010 --> 01:17:51.150 our projects, like we ha a hurricane came through and blew down all of our fencing. 01:17:51.150 --> 01:17:53.160 And so we've been having to rebuild fencing. 01:17:53.220 --> 01:17:54.720 We've been able to take care of that stuff. 01:17:55.050 --> 01:17:59.700 But as far as growth for taking on another staff member or taking on an assistant 01:17:59.700 --> 01:18:03.210 for me, 'cause we have a waiting list for, for families of children with 01:18:03.210 --> 01:18:06.420 autism and we just can't help everybody. 01:18:06.420 --> 01:18:11.700 And if I could be, if I could know that I had the funding to pay somebody, then I 01:18:11.700 --> 01:18:16.200 could go ahead and train someone to be an assistant and take on more clients there. 01:18:16.550 --> 01:18:18.380 And then also the funding for the classroom. 01:18:18.380 --> 01:18:23.000 And so we have all of that and we speak it out in positive vibes to the 01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:28.140 universe and prayers to God and, and we just keep doing whether, whether, 01:18:28.260 --> 01:18:30.570 whether it's gonna happen quickly or not. 01:18:30.570 --> 01:18:34.530 We just, like I said, we make do with what we have and we just keep pushing on 01:18:34.530 --> 01:18:37.620 and, and looking to grow as we can do it. 01:18:38.940 --> 01:18:40.630 Rupert Isaacson: Well in the years I've known you I've 01:18:40.630 --> 01:18:42.310 never seen you guys not do it. 01:18:42.670 --> 01:18:42.760 Yeah. 01:18:42.850 --> 01:18:46.200 So, I think you guys are, you know, absolutely. 01:18:46.380 --> 01:18:48.370 Will continue to thrive. 01:18:48.370 --> 01:18:53.680 One of the things I've always thought is what is needed is a ton of little 01:18:53.680 --> 01:18:56.260 one acre farm campuses dotted around. 01:18:56.890 --> 01:18:57.070 Catherine Ward: Yeah. 01:18:57.250 --> 01:18:58.360 Rupert Isaacson: All over the world really. 01:18:58.840 --> 01:19:05.140 Are you beginning to think about how to train people to put together. 01:19:06.010 --> 01:19:06.730 What you do. 01:19:06.730 --> 01:19:08.290 'cause it's, it's very specific. 01:19:08.470 --> 01:19:10.480 Like, you know, we go and do movement method trainings or horse 01:19:10.630 --> 01:19:13.360 method trainings, and then we say to people, here's the framework. 01:19:13.480 --> 01:19:16.360 Use it in your context, the way you want to use it. 01:19:16.810 --> 01:19:21.610 But with you, it's, it's, it's even more it's even more complex because 01:19:21.655 --> 01:19:25.820 you're, you're, you're really taking on the the academic responsibility. 01:19:25.910 --> 01:19:29.720 We, we, we supplement, we show people how to homeschool, we show, we train 01:19:29.720 --> 01:19:31.040 schools how to use movement method. 01:19:31.250 --> 01:19:32.750 We give them the lesson plans and so on. 01:19:33.020 --> 01:19:35.900 But it's really us training professionals who are already doing it. 01:19:36.080 --> 01:19:37.430 You guys are the professionals. 01:19:37.880 --> 01:19:41.090 If somebody wanted, that's, maybe they're sitting in the Netherlands 01:19:41.090 --> 01:19:46.820 listening to this or somewhere, places where space is at a premium, or I mean 01:19:46.820 --> 01:19:52.520 any, any given suburban environment like yours, are you, are you gonna put 01:19:52.520 --> 01:19:54.020 together a tra a framework for trainees? 01:19:54.020 --> 01:19:55.340 Can people contact you for that? 01:19:55.850 --> 01:19:57.680 Catherine Ward: We do, we are in the works on that. 01:19:57.680 --> 01:20:00.530 And, and it's a continuing, evolving thing as we do it. 01:20:00.530 --> 01:20:03.560 And the more we do it, the more we're like, oh, we need to do this too. 01:20:03.860 --> 01:20:07.210 And so Nicole and I you had told us a long time ago, you just wait. 01:20:07.330 --> 01:20:09.070 People are gonna be seeking y'all out. 01:20:09.070 --> 01:20:12.010 And I thought, eh, they're not gonna know anything about one acre farm. 01:20:12.310 --> 01:20:16.030 But sure enough, we have people that seek us out from all over the place. 01:20:16.030 --> 01:20:19.760 So Nicole and I are now doing consulting and some people just 01:20:19.760 --> 01:20:21.470 need a, a couple of visits with us. 01:20:21.470 --> 01:20:25.110 You know, zoom calls like this where 'cause there are a lot 01:20:25.110 --> 01:20:29.350 of people that wanna do forest schooling or wild schooling. 01:20:29.350 --> 01:20:31.630 I mean, there's all kind of little buzzwords out there and there are a 01:20:31.630 --> 01:20:34.120 lot of people that they will, they just wanna put a group of people 01:20:34.120 --> 01:20:38.440 together and go to a, a, a park and do some type of learning at a park. 01:20:38.860 --> 01:20:40.960 So we have branched out on that. 01:20:41.020 --> 01:20:46.570 And our goal is to have a, a one acre farm or, or, or to have a curriculum 01:20:46.850 --> 01:20:49.060 that we can eventually sell to people. 01:20:49.310 --> 01:20:50.480 Maybe some videos. 01:20:50.480 --> 01:20:54.470 Our consulting, we would love, I think our, and I'll let 01:20:54.470 --> 01:20:55.790 Nicole expand on this too. 01:20:55.850 --> 01:21:02.030 I think we would love to somehow become a connector of, of people 01:21:02.030 --> 01:21:06.500 that, that have the, the skills of teaching, but may not have the land. 01:21:06.710 --> 01:21:09.710 And then people that have land but don't have the skills because 01:21:10.580 --> 01:21:11.030 Oh yeah, it's a great idea. 01:21:11.030 --> 01:21:14.450 We're, we're, we're just very unique that we are very fortunate to have. 01:21:14.930 --> 01:21:18.770 One acre farm, and we're both teachers, so we've, we've been 01:21:18.770 --> 01:21:20.450 very fortunate we that we had that. 01:21:20.720 --> 01:21:24.350 But, but there's, there's gotta be people out there that say, man, 01:21:24.350 --> 01:21:27.350 I've got all this land, I have these animals, but I don't know how to teach. 01:21:27.350 --> 01:21:32.780 But I would love to let somebody come on my ranch or my small farm and teach. 01:21:33.140 --> 01:21:36.590 And then there's gotta be teachers out there that are like, oh, I wanna do this. 01:21:36.590 --> 01:21:39.200 I wanna teach stuff, but I don't have any land or animals. 01:21:39.530 --> 01:21:41.510 So I, I think agree. 01:21:41.540 --> 01:21:43.435 Nicole, would you agree that that's one of the Yeah. 01:21:43.610 --> 01:21:44.636 The ways we wanna go, the, the 01:21:44.641 --> 01:21:46.970 Nicole Jones: people who reach out to us are usually either farmers 01:21:46.970 --> 01:21:50.300 and like, how do, how do you do this on an acre with your animals? 01:21:50.630 --> 01:21:52.310 I don't really know how to teach. 01:21:52.460 --> 01:21:55.220 And so then they want the curriculum type thing, and then 01:21:55.220 --> 01:21:56.330 we've got teachers that reach out. 01:21:56.330 --> 01:21:58.010 They're like, oh my gosh, I could totally teach this. 01:21:58.010 --> 01:21:59.600 I love this, but I just don't have the space. 01:21:59.900 --> 01:22:00.711 And so mm-hmm. 01:22:00.825 --> 01:22:04.550 It's, we, like she said, we're unique in that we had both, we, we've got the 01:22:04.550 --> 01:22:08.450 farmer background and we're teachers and we had the acre to work it on. 01:22:08.780 --> 01:22:12.350 But yeah, connecting the two, and I think we're now at a point in time 01:22:12.380 --> 01:22:15.470 in America where people are more willing to do something like that. 01:22:15.470 --> 01:22:18.920 I think before COVID this, this would not have gone over well. 01:22:19.310 --> 01:22:19.672 Yeah, I agree. 01:22:19.677 --> 01:22:24.760 But the, you know, the, the, the decline we're seeing in profits that small farmers 01:22:24.820 --> 01:22:26.470 are making specifically small farmers. 01:22:26.470 --> 01:22:28.180 I'm not talking commercial, I'm talking small. 01:22:28.750 --> 01:22:30.550 50 acre, 10 acre, five acre farms. 01:22:30.880 --> 01:22:35.200 To be able to have that income come in of X amount per month, that, okay, I 01:22:35.200 --> 01:22:37.540 lease this one acre portion of my land. 01:22:37.820 --> 01:22:40.250 And I get that per month, that's great. 01:22:40.280 --> 01:22:44.900 And then the teachers be able to go, I can leave this know full-time 01:22:44.900 --> 01:22:48.590 institutionalized job that I hate now, and go and create this thing 01:22:48.590 --> 01:22:52.970 and do it for less hours, a more intentional program outdoors. 01:22:53.250 --> 01:22:57.870 So I I, and we're seeing that across Facebook groups and people we talk to. 01:22:57.870 --> 01:23:01.530 This is something that people are looking for all over the country, not just Texas. 01:23:01.530 --> 01:23:02.610 It, it's happening all over. 01:23:02.610 --> 01:23:03.750 And so have you, have you got 01:23:03.750 --> 01:23:06.480 Rupert Isaacson: some, have you got some projects that you've put together 01:23:06.510 --> 01:23:09.990 now where you've, you've, you've put those people together with land 01:23:09.990 --> 01:23:11.910 and teaching skills and seen them. 01:23:12.810 --> 01:23:13.440 Not yet. 01:23:13.710 --> 01:23:17.590 Nicole Jones: We have we've done some consultations that two specifically did 01:23:17.590 --> 01:23:21.040 go ahead and start their programs and they've been on, been very successful. 01:23:21.290 --> 01:23:26.670 One is a, we did a consult with someone who is in Idaho, and she 01:23:26.670 --> 01:23:30.420 does her Montessori classroom out of a yurt, and that was really cool. 01:23:30.700 --> 01:23:35.920 And then another one, she's specifically more of homeschool educational classes. 01:23:35.920 --> 01:23:40.180 She'll do like a six to eight week rotation in classes, and that's 01:23:40.180 --> 01:23:41.530 gone off really well with her. 01:23:41.820 --> 01:23:44.730 And so, yeah, that's been cool to see those start and that those people just 01:23:44.730 --> 01:23:46.380 needed the encouragement to do it. 01:23:46.410 --> 01:23:49.230 That, you know, a lot of people, the people that are ready to jump 01:23:49.230 --> 01:23:52.800 on this just need to hear that they're not crazy and that it's, 01:23:52.860 --> 01:23:54.270 yeah, you're on the right track. 01:23:54.270 --> 01:23:55.260 People will sign up. 01:23:55.260 --> 01:23:56.400 People do want this. 01:23:56.400 --> 01:23:57.330 It's, it's okay. 01:23:57.690 --> 01:24:02.190 And so I go, going back to the loneliness aspect, once you. 01:24:02.525 --> 01:24:04.265 Can connect with people and tell 'em you're, you know, 01:24:04.295 --> 01:24:05.165 we're all in the same boat. 01:24:05.165 --> 01:24:08.555 Like this is a, you know, pioneer this even though you have nobody 01:24:08.555 --> 01:24:09.815 in your area that's doing this. 01:24:09.815 --> 01:24:10.715 Just, just do it. 01:24:10.715 --> 01:24:14.075 And, and because both these people already had land, you know, that they 01:24:14.075 --> 01:24:16.865 were in a similar situation with us where they were just able to start it. 01:24:17.215 --> 01:24:21.595 But the, the connecting, the, the two different types of people is something 01:24:21.595 --> 01:24:23.065 we'd like to be able to do in the future. 01:24:23.635 --> 01:24:24.505 Rupert Isaacson: What about mobile? 01:24:24.505 --> 01:24:25.315 One acre farms? 01:24:25.315 --> 01:24:29.245 What about being able to, you know, pack your one acre farm in a trailer 01:24:29.545 --> 01:24:31.615 and then take it onto a school campus? 01:24:31.975 --> 01:24:33.560 Catherine Ward: Well, I actually did that, Catherine done that before. 01:24:33.960 --> 01:24:34.200 I did that. 01:24:34.200 --> 01:24:35.635 I did that for years. 01:24:35.755 --> 01:24:37.405 That's exactly what I did. 01:24:37.775 --> 01:24:41.885 Before, I mean, I would have a few classes and workshops at the farm. 01:24:42.195 --> 01:24:45.315 But no, I, it was, it was very lucrative too. 01:24:45.605 --> 01:24:53.205 And so I, I built I had a flatbed trailer and I built this red frame structure 01:24:53.205 --> 01:24:55.155 around it to make it look like a barn. 01:24:55.155 --> 01:24:56.925 And it just said more like, so a tiny house 01:24:56.925 --> 01:24:57.825 Rupert Isaacson: on the back of your pickup? 01:24:57.825 --> 01:24:58.035 Yeah, 01:24:58.035 --> 01:24:58.815 Catherine Ward: exactly. 01:24:58.815 --> 01:24:59.475 Exactly. 01:24:59.475 --> 01:25:01.095 And I'd put all the animals in there. 01:25:01.275 --> 01:25:02.205 Oh, a great idea. 01:25:02.920 --> 01:25:03.340 I did. 01:25:03.340 --> 01:25:08.590 And so I got paid to, to, I did a few birthday parties, but that really 01:25:08.590 --> 01:25:11.260 wasn't my, that, that's not my gig. 01:25:11.630 --> 01:25:16.530 So I, I marketed myself to all of the preschools and daycares around. 01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:20.100 And so I would go and set up for several hours and they would rotate 01:25:20.130 --> 01:25:24.120 all their classes through, and I gave like a 30 minute demonstration. 01:25:24.120 --> 01:25:26.100 And I talked about the chickens and the rabbits. 01:25:26.100 --> 01:25:28.020 And so it wasn't a petting zoo at all. 01:25:28.020 --> 01:25:29.160 It was very educational. 01:25:29.430 --> 01:25:32.910 And then I got a contract with the local school district to do it. 01:25:33.150 --> 01:25:36.750 And and so I was going to all of the elementary schools and 01:25:36.750 --> 01:25:40.140 it, it was so labor intensive. 01:25:40.170 --> 01:25:44.550 It was at least two hours of prep, loading, loading animals 01:25:44.980 --> 01:25:47.110 making sure we had water and food. 01:25:47.110 --> 01:25:51.670 And again, because of our heat and humidity down here, watching and 01:25:51.670 --> 01:25:55.780 caring for the animals' health in these parking lots while I'm doing 01:25:55.780 --> 01:26:00.640 this, and then loading them back up, coming home and unloading it was, I, 01:26:00.730 --> 01:26:02.830 I burned out really, really quickly. 01:26:03.110 --> 01:26:06.620 I would've, I would've done it for, I probably, I. 01:26:07.190 --> 01:26:10.430 If it weren't for, for what I'm, I'm, what I'm about to lead into, 01:26:10.430 --> 01:26:12.050 I probably would've kept with it. 01:26:12.410 --> 01:26:18.640 But my mom, my mother ended up having a stroke and very debilitating. 01:26:18.670 --> 01:26:20.110 And paralyzed. 01:26:20.110 --> 01:26:22.060 She couldn't move, she couldn't talk anymore. 01:26:22.360 --> 01:26:26.830 And we were in this, you know, middle class limbo where we couldn't 01:26:26.830 --> 01:26:29.290 afford full-time care to help. 01:26:29.290 --> 01:26:31.630 So I became her, her caregiver, right? 01:26:31.810 --> 01:26:34.450 And so I ended up having to shut that down. 01:26:34.510 --> 01:26:36.850 I had just had to sell off about half of my animals. 01:26:36.850 --> 01:26:40.600 I didn't wanna get rid of all of them, but I bring up her stroke 01:26:40.600 --> 01:26:46.030 because her, her doctor had explained to me, he said, you know, don't. 01:26:46.645 --> 01:26:50.215 Please work with her every day, help her learn how to feed herself again, 01:26:50.425 --> 01:26:51.985 help her learn how to talk again. 01:26:52.075 --> 01:26:57.585 And so he gave this visual of like, if so I'm here in Texas, so between Houston 01:26:57.585 --> 01:27:00.465 and Dallas is the highway called 45. 01:27:00.645 --> 01:27:04.635 And he said, if you wanna get from Houston to Dallas, you would normally take I 45. 01:27:04.995 --> 01:27:07.035 But the road is blocked now. 01:27:07.035 --> 01:27:07.695 You can't. 01:27:07.695 --> 01:27:13.605 So now you've gotta go all these little country roads might take longer, but 01:27:13.605 --> 01:27:16.965 you can still get from Houston to Dallas and it's gonna, but you're just gonna 01:27:16.965 --> 01:27:18.495 have to go down these other paths. 01:27:18.855 --> 01:27:21.195 That's what you're doing with your mother's brain. 01:27:21.465 --> 01:27:26.775 This part of her brain is, is destroyed, but you can retrain 01:27:26.775 --> 01:27:28.665 it and create these new paths. 01:27:28.875 --> 01:27:33.285 So all of that happened and then we meet you and we learn the science 01:27:33.285 --> 01:27:37.755 behind movement method and what happens with a child's brain that may have 01:27:37.755 --> 01:27:42.195 autism and about forming pathways and neuroplasticity and all of that. 01:27:42.465 --> 01:27:46.605 So all of those life experiences that I had that brought me then to 01:27:46.605 --> 01:27:51.345 meeting you and movement method have just now fast forwarded to where we 01:27:51.345 --> 01:27:53.415 are and, and, and what we're doing. 01:27:54.255 --> 01:27:57.265 Rupert Isaacson: if you're a horse nerd, and if you're on this podcast, 01:27:57.665 --> 01:28:02.565 I'm guessing you are, then you've probably also always wondered a little 01:28:02.565 --> 01:28:04.815 bit about the old master system. 01:28:05.280 --> 01:28:06.590 of dressage training. 01:28:06.630 --> 01:28:15.200 If you go and check out our Helios Harmony program, we outline there step by step 01:28:15.270 --> 01:28:21.550 exactly how to train your horse from the ground to become the dressage horse 01:28:21.560 --> 01:28:28.080 of your dreams in a way that absolutely serves the physical, mental and emotional 01:28:28.130 --> 01:28:30.900 well being of the horse and the rider. 01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:31.700 Intrigued? 01:28:31.900 --> 01:28:32.760 Like to know more? 01:28:33.630 --> 01:28:36.460 Go to our website, Helios Harmony. 01:28:38.160 --> 01:28:39.850 Check out the free introduction course. 01:28:40.410 --> 01:28:40.930 Take it from there. 01:28:41.434 --> 01:28:45.964 I wonder if it might be possible, I'm just thinking obviously, of you guys, 01:28:45.964 --> 01:28:49.084 but I'm also thinking about other people who might be listening who are thinking, 01:28:49.084 --> 01:28:54.414 well, you know, I'd like to do something like this, but I'm already maxed out, you 01:28:54.414 --> 01:28:56.004 know, with the, with the program I've got. 01:28:56.004 --> 01:28:58.974 And I think that's very much the experience of. 01:28:59.544 --> 01:29:02.864 Pretty much anyone who, who runs any of these programs unless somebody 01:29:02.864 --> 01:29:07.274 comes in and we, you know, with a big checkbook and says, alright, you 01:29:07.274 --> 01:29:09.644 are now able to hire all the staff. 01:29:09.884 --> 01:29:12.764 Because then even if you do, then suddenly you are the administrator 01:29:12.764 --> 01:29:16.574 and you are now doing that full-time. 01:29:16.574 --> 01:29:20.414 So it's okay, you might expand your capacity, but in terms of your 01:29:20.414 --> 01:29:24.284 own personal time, you, you are as stretch as you ever were, if not more. 01:29:24.554 --> 01:29:27.404 But what I was wondering, listening to your story about going round, 01:29:27.464 --> 01:29:30.184 because we, we used to do this from our new trails ranch. 01:29:30.184 --> 01:29:34.744 We would also put the horses and trailers and go onto school campuses and so on. 01:29:35.344 --> 01:29:40.384 And one of, but we take the other animals and then we run some lessons. 01:29:40.384 --> 01:29:44.944 And I know some of the other horse boy movement method people have done it too. 01:29:45.904 --> 01:29:50.434 I think if I was in your shoes though, is it possible to 01:29:50.434 --> 01:29:52.264 find, to almost outsource that? 01:29:52.264 --> 01:29:57.934 Could you find people that you don't have to pay directly, but you could 01:29:58.024 --> 01:30:03.724 train and say, okay, you know, I will set you up with the clientele. 01:30:04.174 --> 01:30:06.844 You could go out to the schools and say, who, who wants this? 01:30:06.904 --> 01:30:10.354 You know, or, or the homeschooling groups who, who can't come to you and 01:30:10.354 --> 01:30:14.524 then you say, all right, you, this person have gone through a training. 01:30:14.524 --> 01:30:19.239 Now your job is to load up the animals, go that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 01:30:19.244 --> 01:30:20.044 This is what you need. 01:30:20.044 --> 01:30:23.044 You're gonna need to be under a big tree because of the, he, 01:30:23.044 --> 01:30:23.854 you know, the blah, blah, blah. 01:30:23.854 --> 01:30:25.024 You're gonna need this, you're gonna need that. 01:30:25.024 --> 01:30:25.714 You're gonna need the other this. 01:30:25.834 --> 01:30:27.664 And then they go off and deliver that. 01:30:28.014 --> 01:30:31.494 While you continue, but you don't have to necessarily pay them directly. 01:30:31.764 --> 01:30:36.044 They are a an independent contractor that gets paid and then they 01:30:36.044 --> 01:30:40.514 just give you, you know, a small percentage of their, that daily fee. 01:30:40.664 --> 01:30:43.604 But then perhaps at a certain point you have 10 of those people going 01:30:43.604 --> 01:30:49.474 up and then that becomes, you know, enough money to fund some more 01:30:49.474 --> 01:30:52.384 construction staff members on property. 01:30:53.084 --> 01:30:54.344 But it also expands your reach. 01:30:54.344 --> 01:30:56.564 Have, you know, could one do, do it sort of that way? 01:30:57.044 --> 01:30:58.664 Catherine Ward: I've never thought about it, but I think that's 01:30:58.664 --> 01:31:00.704 something certainly a put thought to. 01:31:00.704 --> 01:31:01.004 Yes. 01:31:01.004 --> 01:31:01.244 I think that 01:31:02.079 --> 01:31:03.674 Rupert Isaacson: could be done because there are people out there with a vehicle 01:31:03.674 --> 01:31:06.734 and people without, you know, and it might be that they could just, okay, 01:31:06.734 --> 01:31:08.024 they can't put the full farm in there. 01:31:08.024 --> 01:31:11.834 They can't do, you know, that very whimsical thing on the back of a pickup 01:31:11.834 --> 01:31:15.914 truck, but they might be able to put two, two chickens and a dog in the back 01:31:15.914 --> 01:31:20.054 of the thing and, and go and deliver really meaningful curriculum that way. 01:31:20.114 --> 01:31:24.814 And that, the reason I think about chickens is we have a, a, a really 01:31:24.814 --> 01:31:26.254 wonderful place here in Germany. 01:31:26.774 --> 01:31:32.994 The Green Care farm at up in Munster and they go out to schools as well 01:31:32.994 --> 01:31:34.434 as having schools come to them. 01:31:34.794 --> 01:31:39.834 And they got a call to go in where there'd been a threat of. 01:31:40.689 --> 01:31:44.409 Luckily it didn't materialize, but of a school shooting, which is very, 01:31:44.409 --> 01:31:46.149 very rare for this part of the world. 01:31:46.149 --> 01:31:51.369 And it was because of complications between Ukrainian and Russian and 01:31:51.919 --> 01:31:54.949 Syrian and Iraqi refugee families. 01:31:54.949 --> 01:32:00.079 There's it, it blew up and the kids were pretty traumatized, and they 01:32:01.879 --> 01:32:05.599 took the farm into the school and they said that the thing that really 01:32:05.899 --> 01:32:07.099 got the kids was the chickens. 01:32:08.659 --> 01:32:10.969 Somehow the following of the chickens. 01:32:11.149 --> 01:32:15.979 The, the organizing of the chickens that the social stuff that chickens go 01:32:15.979 --> 01:32:19.109 through that they aren't, they aren't always so nice to each other, as you know. 01:32:19.109 --> 01:32:19.169 Yeah. 01:32:19.589 --> 01:32:23.339 But yet they always kind of work it out that, that the idea 01:32:23.339 --> 01:32:26.849 that there's a tangible product, there's the egg, you know, there's 01:32:26.849 --> 01:32:27.839 the meat, there's the feather. 01:32:27.839 --> 01:32:29.309 You can do these things with it. 01:32:29.309 --> 01:32:35.099 It's, and at the same time it's, it's so full of personality and it's such a 01:32:35.099 --> 01:32:36.809 simple thing to do a chicken, you know? 01:32:36.809 --> 01:32:36.899 Mm-hmm. 01:32:37.619 --> 01:32:38.429 A small group of chickens. 01:32:38.429 --> 01:32:42.659 So I'm just wondering if I might put that out there to you and to anyone 01:32:42.659 --> 01:32:44.519 else who's listening, you know? 01:32:44.729 --> 01:32:44.939 Ha. 01:32:44.969 --> 01:32:46.919 Has anyone else been doing that or. 01:32:47.474 --> 01:32:50.564 If, if you did decide to do that, I'd love to hear a report. 01:32:50.624 --> 01:32:50.894 Yeah. 01:32:51.164 --> 01:32:53.204 Catherine Ward: To my knowledge, I don't think there was anyone else. 01:32:53.204 --> 01:32:55.844 I mean, certainly there were petting zoos that set up, its petting 01:32:55.844 --> 01:32:59.114 zoos, but I don't think there was anyone that was doing it like, like 01:32:59.114 --> 01:33:01.004 we were as far as education, so. 01:33:01.154 --> 01:33:01.304 Right. 01:33:01.334 --> 01:33:06.334 I know if I put thought to that there would be an immediate source of clientele 01:33:06.334 --> 01:33:08.014 that would, that would want that done. 01:33:08.614 --> 01:33:08.644 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:33:09.154 --> 01:33:09.394 Okay. 01:33:09.394 --> 01:33:11.044 Well, maybe you wouldn't work on that together. 01:33:11.044 --> 01:33:11.329 That would not 01:33:11.329 --> 01:33:12.364 Catherine Ward: be hard to organize at all. 01:33:12.814 --> 01:33:15.964 Rupert Isaacson: It might even be the sort of thing that you, you get 01:33:15.964 --> 01:33:17.374 like a working student to come in. 01:33:17.374 --> 01:33:22.234 Maybe that's somebody who wants to come and add this to their cv, to their resume, 01:33:22.234 --> 01:33:26.564 you know, and they're coming in from abroad or they're coming in from another 01:33:26.564 --> 01:33:32.234 state and they're maybe in between doing their school and college or between their 01:33:32.234 --> 01:33:36.854 BA and their MA or whatever, and they want to, and you can say to that person, okay, 01:33:37.034 --> 01:33:38.414 you know, you go off and handle that. 01:33:38.654 --> 01:33:40.874 You, you can drive, you know you're good with animals. 01:33:40.904 --> 01:33:41.714 I'll give you this training. 01:33:41.744 --> 01:33:46.184 You go off and handle that, and that money will be largely yours. 01:33:46.544 --> 01:33:48.794 We just need a small percentage of it or whatever. 01:33:48.854 --> 01:33:49.124 Yeah. 01:33:49.274 --> 01:33:49.484 Yeah. 01:33:49.484 --> 01:33:50.174 Catherine Ward: Mm-hmm. 01:33:51.359 --> 01:33:52.089 Very doable. 01:33:52.334 --> 01:33:52.784 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 01:33:54.404 --> 01:33:55.244 I'm taking notes. 01:33:55.364 --> 01:33:55.664 Catherine Ward: Yes. 01:33:56.234 --> 01:33:58.124 Rupert Isaacson: One thing we haven't talked about this is e this, this, 01:33:58.124 --> 01:34:00.854 this podcast is equine assisted world and you guys, you know, 01:34:00.854 --> 01:34:02.204 do have equines on the property. 01:34:02.574 --> 01:34:06.504 One of the things I obviously like to do, when I'm training people and 01:34:06.504 --> 01:34:10.434 talking to people is to tell them, while I want you to train your horses 01:34:10.434 --> 01:34:13.644 really, really well, I also don't want you to be too horse focused, 01:34:13.644 --> 01:34:15.444 because not every kid is into horses. 01:34:15.954 --> 01:34:19.764 You, they can't be on horses, you know, the entire day most of the time. 01:34:20.204 --> 01:34:21.764 So what are you doing with the rest of that time? 01:34:21.974 --> 01:34:24.614 But you guys have actually answered what are you doing with the rest of that time? 01:34:24.614 --> 01:34:25.664 So admirably. 01:34:26.084 --> 01:34:28.304 Talk to us a little bit about the equine side of what you do. 01:34:30.794 --> 01:34:33.764 Catherine Ward: Oddly enough, even though that was going to be the start 01:34:33.764 --> 01:34:39.669 of our focus when we started with the autism therapy sessions, it, it greatly, 01:34:39.849 --> 01:34:44.104 it very quickly moved to more of the smaller animals and the livestock. 01:34:44.444 --> 01:34:49.964 A lot of times the kids that we come can be intimidated by a larger horse. 01:34:50.174 --> 01:34:53.534 So at the time when we started, we had Nicole's horse and her sister's 01:34:53.534 --> 01:34:56.674 horse, and they were one was in Arabian and one was a quarter horse. 01:34:56.764 --> 01:34:57.754 No, we, we were both 01:34:57.939 --> 01:34:58.589 Nicole Jones: quarter horses. 01:34:58.649 --> 01:34:59.069 Mm-hmm. 01:34:59.539 --> 01:34:59.829 Okay. 01:34:59.939 --> 01:35:00.789 They, up and a quarter. 01:35:00.789 --> 01:35:01.069 Yeah. 01:35:01.339 --> 01:35:01.629 Catherine Ward: Okay. 01:35:02.074 --> 01:35:07.764 And so we started with them and then, the, a lot of the kids just didn't really even 01:35:07.764 --> 01:35:10.434 have that much interest in the horses. 01:35:10.434 --> 01:35:13.734 They immediately wanted to go be with the bunnies or be with the chickens. 01:35:14.094 --> 01:35:18.054 And I found myself like, well, no, wait, there's horses right here. 01:35:18.054 --> 01:35:20.304 Don't you wanna, don't you wanna be with the horses that 01:35:20.304 --> 01:35:21.894 are like, no, we wanna do this. 01:35:21.894 --> 01:35:25.924 And so with our philosophy of following the child, and and so then 01:35:25.924 --> 01:35:30.204 that became more of the method that was being used with, with the kids. 01:35:30.534 --> 01:35:34.624 So now we do have a pony, a Welsh pony, and she is being she's not 01:35:34.624 --> 01:35:37.774 fully trained, but I do train her in the, the horse boy method. 01:35:38.104 --> 01:35:40.384 And we have a couple of kids that are interested in her. 01:35:40.744 --> 01:35:45.064 But we also have a little mini horse, a, a white, I don't know, he's like 01:35:45.064 --> 01:35:47.884 32 inches tall and solid white. 01:35:47.884 --> 01:35:52.394 His name is Gus, and he's a very good introduction to to horses because 01:35:52.394 --> 01:35:55.934 he's so small and because he's white, we've allowed kids to paint 01:35:55.934 --> 01:35:57.494 on him like a big piece of paper. 01:35:58.034 --> 01:36:02.514 And, and so, currently right now with the clients that we have, I have only 01:36:02.514 --> 01:36:07.494 one student that wants to do any, any back riding on honey on our Welsh pony. 01:36:07.974 --> 01:36:12.114 So right now they're not being utilized as I thought they would in the 01:36:12.114 --> 01:36:13.944 beginning of the conception of this. 01:36:14.709 --> 01:36:17.244 Nicole Jones: I, I will add though, even though they're not being. 01:36:17.874 --> 01:36:22.434 Ridden the, the students that need the horse time, get their horse time, 01:36:22.824 --> 01:36:26.904 but Right, like she was saying, we gravely overestimated how important the 01:36:26.904 --> 01:36:28.164 horses were gonna be to the children. 01:36:28.764 --> 01:36:32.994 And now there are certain ones that, that's honey. 01:36:32.994 --> 01:36:35.874 The Welsh pony is the first one they go and say hi to and they bring her 01:36:35.874 --> 01:36:39.084 treats every morning or, you know, so there, there are those that go 01:36:39.084 --> 01:36:43.254 and talk to the horses and pet them, and that's really important to them. 01:36:43.254 --> 01:36:46.644 But the majority of our kids find the rabbits, the goats, 01:36:46.644 --> 01:36:48.624 the chickens to be their place. 01:36:48.834 --> 01:36:50.304 And so it really just depends. 01:36:50.304 --> 01:36:53.154 So they're there and they assist the kids that need it, but for the 01:36:53.154 --> 01:36:57.054 most part, it's a small animals that carry, carry the weight of the kids. 01:36:57.114 --> 01:36:57.444 Yeah. 01:36:58.464 --> 01:36:58.644 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:36:58.644 --> 01:36:59.604 It's very interesting. 01:36:59.604 --> 01:37:03.984 I, and I find these things go in a sort of seasonal thing almost. 01:37:04.024 --> 01:37:09.394 Like in the course of our own practice, just my own home practice here in 01:37:09.394 --> 01:37:17.714 Germany, I find that it goes really up and down the number of hours or kids 01:37:17.714 --> 01:37:20.024 that are really, really horse focused. 01:37:20.624 --> 01:37:25.574 And sometimes I go through like a semester where it's really almost 01:37:25.574 --> 01:37:26.834 not about the horses at all. 01:37:27.294 --> 01:37:29.934 Or maybe we're just using the horses to. 01:37:30.744 --> 01:37:35.454 Get to a certain area of the forest where the kids want to play and explore. 01:37:35.934 --> 01:37:38.034 And actually they're quite happy to walk there. 01:37:38.484 --> 01:37:42.714 They like having the horses with, but they appreciate having the horse to get back. 01:37:42.714 --> 01:37:45.204 So you gotta get back up the hill from the creek or whatever. 01:37:45.204 --> 01:37:46.764 And that's when they wanna sit on the horse and ride. 01:37:46.854 --> 01:37:50.484 And then they'll often really interact, say, oh, I love this, I love the riding. 01:37:50.484 --> 01:37:53.354 Or but their focus is not there. 01:37:53.444 --> 01:37:56.144 And I can see what they get from it neurologically, and I can see 01:37:56.204 --> 01:37:59.924 how the oxytocin gets them, gets them communicating and speaking. 01:38:00.044 --> 01:38:03.224 And then there'll be another semester where it's like all about the horses. 01:38:03.374 --> 01:38:06.704 And I have kids that want to learn how to train horses from the ground and 01:38:07.094 --> 01:38:10.604 they're doing pf and massage and they're doing, and then another semester comes, 01:38:10.604 --> 01:38:11.954 it's sort of not about the horses again. 01:38:12.284 --> 01:38:17.414 What, what do you, talk to me about that kind of flexibility of follow the 01:38:17.414 --> 01:38:21.164 child because this is very, you know, you're a horsey person, Nicole, and 01:38:21.224 --> 01:38:24.554 you, you know that this is actually one of the difficulties about the 01:38:24.554 --> 01:38:27.944 horsey personality as we're, we're so horse focused, we can actually have a 01:38:27.944 --> 01:38:32.174 bit of trouble moving away from that if that's not where the person is at. 01:38:32.654 --> 01:38:35.594 You know, talk to us about that learning curve that you've gone through. 01:38:36.554 --> 01:38:40.094 Nicole Jones: Yeah, I, I think now we've both just kind of accepted it. 01:38:40.094 --> 01:38:42.434 I think at the beginning it was a little bit harder and also 01:38:42.854 --> 01:38:42.974 Catherine Ward: I. 01:38:43.379 --> 01:38:46.319 Nicole Jones: I, you know, I remember being a child and being so obsessed 01:38:46.319 --> 01:38:48.899 with everything about horses that I think, how can you, you've got 01:38:48.899 --> 01:38:49.949 a horse right in front of you. 01:38:49.949 --> 01:38:54.539 How can you not just want to do everything about this, but really I, I think once 01:38:54.539 --> 01:38:59.549 you just get to this point where you can let go of you being the one in control, 01:38:59.549 --> 01:39:03.809 I mean, it, it's less about, I think it's less about the, the horse aspect, but just 01:39:03.809 --> 01:39:08.159 once you can let go of, this is not about me, this is about what the kids want, and 01:39:08.159 --> 01:39:09.479 the kids are telling you what they want. 01:39:09.729 --> 01:39:11.799 Once you can get to that point, then everything else becomes. 01:39:12.309 --> 01:39:12.789 Easier. 01:39:13.069 --> 01:39:19.009 And so, you know, as, as much as the horses are, you know, lesser utilized 01:39:19.009 --> 01:39:22.799 than some of the other animals on the farm you know, most of our visitors when they 01:39:22.799 --> 01:39:26.219 come, even though they're not riding or doing anything in particular, honey goes 01:39:26.219 --> 01:39:27.929 up and greets every kid that comes in. 01:39:27.929 --> 01:39:30.839 She'll walk right up to the gate, the kids petter when they come in. 01:39:30.839 --> 01:39:35.159 So horses are still kind of the, and she, you know, tells them by 01:39:35.159 --> 01:39:38.369 when they leave, 'cause she goes, she, her pen is right where the kids 01:39:38.369 --> 01:39:39.989 enter and exit for the school day. 01:39:40.319 --> 01:39:43.919 And so even though they might not be directly interacting with her 01:39:43.919 --> 01:39:46.919 in the way that we see, she is still the start and the end to 01:39:46.919 --> 01:39:48.179 their day, which is really cool. 01:39:48.179 --> 01:39:52.569 And, and the kids, everybody who visits, whether it's you know, not specifically 01:39:52.569 --> 01:39:57.099 farm school, but other classes or events that Catherine puts on honey 01:39:57.099 --> 01:39:58.989 is the one that the kids talk about. 01:39:59.039 --> 01:40:01.049 Because she's right there where, where all the activities are. 01:40:01.049 --> 01:40:04.889 So, I, I think just once we let go of that feeling that, oh my gosh, 01:40:04.889 --> 01:40:07.889 we need to get the horses more involved in this and just, it's okay. 01:40:07.919 --> 01:40:10.199 Like, you know, the horses are there for the kids who need it. 01:40:10.559 --> 01:40:14.099 But it just didn't have to be this, our, our whole program didn't 01:40:14.099 --> 01:40:15.209 have to be wrapped around it. 01:40:16.259 --> 01:40:16.529 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:40:16.529 --> 01:40:20.789 It's, it's so hard for horsey personalities because as you 01:40:20.789 --> 01:40:24.689 say, we are so obsessed we can't imagine that other people aren't. 01:40:25.199 --> 01:40:25.349 Mm-hmm. 01:40:25.589 --> 01:40:28.179 And then we almost become a bit evangelic as I know, but surely you 01:40:28.179 --> 01:40:31.769 want the haw, you know, so, and they're like, well yeah, well not really. 01:40:31.774 --> 01:40:32.104 You're like, really? 01:40:32.219 --> 01:40:33.239 Well, how can that be? 01:40:33.569 --> 01:40:37.019 And I think that there is a personality type that goes with being 01:40:37.019 --> 01:40:38.429 horsey that is a bit controlling. 01:40:38.429 --> 01:40:42.479 I mean, I think you have to be a bit bossy to be good with horses 01:40:42.479 --> 01:40:47.249 because you have to have that slightly leadershipy, bossy side that horses 01:40:47.249 --> 01:40:48.599 themselves actually often have. 01:40:49.199 --> 01:40:50.369 And I agree with you. 01:40:50.369 --> 01:40:57.029 I think letting that go is the hardest skill to learn. 01:40:57.419 --> 01:41:01.999 At what point for both of you, because you know, you, you, you, Catherine you 01:41:01.999 --> 01:41:09.009 know, for a while you were involved in a, a fairly controlled and controlling side 01:41:09.009 --> 01:41:16.209 of Christianity, you know, and it sounds like also listening to the story of your 01:41:16.209 --> 01:41:20.569 childhood and the ups and the downs there must have been a desire for control, 01:41:20.659 --> 01:41:23.089 you know, the, to find order and chaos. 01:41:23.189 --> 01:41:25.919 And I think a lot of us that end up with slightly controlling 01:41:25.919 --> 01:41:30.899 personalities, it's often in response to chaotic events, you know? 01:41:30.999 --> 01:41:33.099 And trying to find that kind of sense of safety. 01:41:33.759 --> 01:41:38.019 I'd like both of you just to talk a little bit about your own journeys with 01:41:38.019 --> 01:41:44.409 how you managed to kind of give up the obsession with control, because I think 01:41:44.409 --> 01:41:47.109 this is something that is an absolute. 01:41:47.994 --> 01:41:51.744 Must for anyone who's going to do our kind of work. 01:41:52.264 --> 01:41:55.594 And it comes as a bit of a surprise, I think, as you say, for a lot of people 01:41:55.594 --> 01:41:59.284 that, oh, I'm gonna set up a, you know, an equine assisted program and say, yeah, but 01:41:59.314 --> 01:42:01.174 what if the person's not really into it? 01:42:01.204 --> 01:42:01.564 You know? 01:42:01.954 --> 01:42:06.754 So Catherine talk to, how did you, how did you give that up? 01:42:07.934 --> 01:42:10.364 Catherine Ward: I don't know if it was a giving up or if it was just an 01:42:10.604 --> 01:42:13.304 evolution and, and growing and moving on. 01:42:13.364 --> 01:42:18.974 I think at the time in my life when there was that much structure and rules, 01:42:18.974 --> 01:42:25.424 there was probably some, some type of comfort there far because, because it 01:42:25.429 --> 01:42:29.594 does give you structure and it does give you a, a, a bubble of protection. 01:42:29.594 --> 01:42:29.654 Yeah. 01:42:30.074 --> 01:42:31.664 And, and then a sense 01:42:31.664 --> 01:42:32.294 Rupert Isaacson: of security. 01:42:32.299 --> 01:42:32.459 Yeah. 01:42:32.564 --> 01:42:32.894 Catherine Ward: Yeah. 01:42:32.894 --> 01:42:33.644 Absolutely. 01:42:33.644 --> 01:42:34.604 Absolutely it does. 01:42:34.934 --> 01:42:37.984 And and I would never speak on, on that. 01:42:38.134 --> 01:42:40.364 I mean, I chose that life, so, I. 01:42:40.364 --> 01:42:45.239 And there were great benefits to that and, and a great love and, and faith 01:42:45.239 --> 01:42:47.369 to, to my creator and God in that. 01:42:47.639 --> 01:42:52.809 But I think as my mind grew it was just, it wasn't growing out of not, 01:42:53.109 --> 01:42:57.039 not wanting to have a faith in him, but I grew beyond the structure of the 01:42:57.039 --> 01:43:03.639 boundaries and, and just began to see the world through a, a different filter 01:43:03.669 --> 01:43:06.189 than just the filter of those rules. 01:43:06.489 --> 01:43:09.849 And so then my filter, and I'll just go back to it, just truly became 01:43:09.849 --> 01:43:16.869 about kindness and, and seeing every individual for being a human being who 01:43:16.869 --> 01:43:21.849 they are, and that every person has intrinsic value and that every person 01:43:21.849 --> 01:43:27.449 has intelligence and, and especially in working with kids with autism, something 01:43:27.449 --> 01:43:31.119 that, that I learned through you, but I think I'd already had that thought in 01:43:31.119 --> 01:43:36.069 my mind, is that to just always assume intelligence, always assume there is 01:43:36.119 --> 01:43:40.649 while they, while a person may not be able to verbalize and, and communicate 01:43:40.649 --> 01:43:45.419 in a certain way that we never devalue what is in their mind and their soul. 01:43:45.839 --> 01:43:53.909 And so I, I think I just, while I did leave some tenets of organized religion 01:43:53.909 --> 01:43:55.949 behind, I didn't leave my faith behind. 01:43:55.949 --> 01:44:02.069 And I just grew more in my acceptance and unconditional love of people and 01:44:02.279 --> 01:44:08.389 and truly try to, impart that to the, the kids that, that are here and and 01:44:08.389 --> 01:44:10.249 just find a balance, I guess maybe. 01:44:10.249 --> 01:44:14.749 I, I feel like now I just have a, a balance in life with that 01:44:16.849 --> 01:44:17.299 Rupert Isaacson: Nicole. 01:44:18.289 --> 01:44:22.459 Nicole Jones: I think a lot of that changed for me during my time at 01:44:22.459 --> 01:44:25.789 the A BA clinic because that was a highly controlled environment. 01:44:26.239 --> 01:44:30.109 Every, every minute of the kids' day were planned out. 01:44:30.109 --> 01:44:34.399 And while that can seem beneficial to someone who's more controlling in their 01:44:34.399 --> 01:44:38.449 personality or, or just the, the sense of control, you know, eases your mind. 01:44:38.789 --> 01:44:43.319 I saw how quickly it wasn't working and that in the process of, okay, we, yeah, 01:44:43.319 --> 01:44:48.749 we might have these kids under control but we're also breaking their spirit because 01:44:48.809 --> 01:44:50.549 we're taking all of that away from them. 01:44:50.549 --> 01:44:55.109 So I very quickly just started to realize this, this is not how you 01:44:55.109 --> 01:44:58.159 work with children and by taking this. 01:44:58.514 --> 01:45:02.024 Switching to Montessori and then really taking your control out of it. 01:45:02.024 --> 01:45:05.334 You can prepare you can prepare the environment, prepare the 01:45:05.334 --> 01:45:08.794 materials but really you let go of control and then it's okay, let 01:45:08.794 --> 01:45:10.744 the kids go and let them teach you. 01:45:11.104 --> 01:45:17.494 And so having that realization of let go of the control and observe and then watch 01:45:17.494 --> 01:45:22.294 the kids flourish that, so it was about a year's time where I really felt like this 01:45:22.594 --> 01:45:26.204 deep change in my teaching heart, I guess. 01:45:26.564 --> 01:45:30.134 And so now once that happened and it's like, okay, let 'em, let 'em do stuff, 01:45:30.134 --> 01:45:34.094 and, and I mean, I still have my moments, you know, I, I might cringe a little 01:45:34.094 --> 01:45:37.064 bit when they mix the Play-Doh colors together, but I don't say anything. 01:45:37.064 --> 01:45:41.264 So it's, but yeah, that's where I thing, I mean, you can, you still 01:45:41.264 --> 01:45:45.864 feel it, but oh my gosh, you have to know that, that this is, this is fine. 01:45:46.164 --> 01:45:46.404 So, 01:45:46.494 --> 01:45:46.974 Catherine Ward: yeah. 01:45:46.974 --> 01:45:46.975 Yeah. 01:45:47.064 --> 01:45:50.544 And that, that could sometimes be the, the biggest atrocity of the day. 01:45:50.544 --> 01:45:53.514 At the end of the day when we're cleaning up, we're like, oh my God, 01:45:53.514 --> 01:45:55.164 the Play-Doh colors are mixed up. 01:45:58.194 --> 01:46:01.884 So I actually gave to some of my kids, 'cause we've got modeling clay in the 01:46:01.884 --> 01:46:04.134 elementary, and, and I gave one of 'em. 01:46:04.134 --> 01:46:05.364 I said, here, here's your job. 01:46:05.364 --> 01:46:07.104 Somebody mixed up all these balls. 01:46:07.104 --> 01:46:10.074 I need you to separate the colors out. 01:46:11.664 --> 01:46:12.174 And they did. 01:46:12.174 --> 01:46:13.134 They were happy to do it. 01:46:14.024 --> 01:46:14.294 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:46:14.294 --> 01:46:14.924 I mean, there you go. 01:46:14.924 --> 01:46:16.064 There's an opportunity right there. 01:46:16.064 --> 01:46:17.444 There's a learning opportunity right there. 01:46:17.444 --> 01:46:19.124 But, and, and then one has to get out first. 01:46:19.124 --> 01:46:19.964 You've gotta have your reaction. 01:46:19.964 --> 01:46:20.444 Oh my God. 01:46:20.444 --> 01:46:21.584 They just go, you know? 01:46:21.589 --> 01:46:21.699 Yeah. 01:46:21.699 --> 01:46:26.114 And then you look back and think, my God, I wasted like a month of reactions before. 01:46:26.114 --> 01:46:29.084 I thought, why don't I just give it to the kids to sort out that, so, right. 01:46:29.894 --> 01:46:30.884 Oh yeah, yeah. 01:46:31.154 --> 01:46:31.964 We're so interesting. 01:46:31.964 --> 01:46:32.774 Aren't we humans? 01:46:32.804 --> 01:46:35.744 And it, it, it, I, I guess it all comes down to fear. 01:46:36.044 --> 01:46:40.894 But you know, you, you were talking about let the, the quote let 01:46:40.894 --> 01:46:42.934 children do dangerous things safely. 01:46:43.204 --> 01:46:44.524 I found that actually with Jordan. 01:46:44.764 --> 01:46:45.574 Jordan Peterson. 01:46:45.844 --> 01:46:46.834 Catherine Ward: Oh, that's who said it? 01:46:46.834 --> 01:46:47.674 Yes, that's right. 01:46:47.674 --> 01:46:48.754 I should have known that. 01:46:48.754 --> 01:46:51.884 Rupert Isaacson: But it, it is, it is very true that if you grow 01:46:51.884 --> 01:46:59.654 up on a farm, you are gonna handle blades, machines, livestock. 01:47:00.494 --> 01:47:04.244 And it's so interesting with my three kids, you know, I've 01:47:04.244 --> 01:47:06.494 watched them all going through it. 01:47:08.894 --> 01:47:13.964 Touch wood, they don't tend to cut themselves because you are constantly 01:47:13.964 --> 01:47:17.024 with them sort of showing them what to do. 01:47:17.144 --> 01:47:19.004 They observe you cutting yourself. 01:47:19.244 --> 01:47:21.014 They sort of don't want to repeat that. 01:47:21.124 --> 01:47:25.834 Occasionally they give themselves a small nick or so on, but doesn't 01:47:25.834 --> 01:47:28.504 everybody have the right to do that? 01:47:28.504 --> 01:47:30.484 Then of course, it's very different when it's my kids as 01:47:30.484 --> 01:47:32.104 opposed to somebody else's kids. 01:47:32.374 --> 01:47:34.864 So when we've got. 01:47:36.289 --> 01:47:37.969 People coming, you know, onto the farm. 01:47:37.969 --> 01:47:40.759 Obviously we do our best to make sure that the quote unquote 01:47:40.759 --> 01:47:44.389 dangerous stuff is not just lying around and, and so on and so on. 01:47:44.389 --> 01:47:49.159 But we also make it very clear that we cannot and will not control every moment. 01:47:49.159 --> 01:47:53.719 But what we will do is try to provide mentorship and leadership because at a 01:47:53.719 --> 01:47:57.709 certain point, the kids are going to need to learn how to handle fire, or a blade 01:47:57.889 --> 01:48:00.799 or, you know, a tool of, of some sort. 01:48:01.319 --> 01:48:02.099 And you know, it's interesting. 01:48:02.249 --> 01:48:03.779 Temple Grandin is big on this. 01:48:03.779 --> 01:48:10.559 You know, she, she says you've got to let kids work out the technologies, 01:48:10.889 --> 01:48:16.049 the physical technologies, not the software technologies of life. 01:48:16.199 --> 01:48:23.399 If you want them to be able to order later things, which means they've gotta 01:48:23.399 --> 01:48:27.959 make some mistakes, which means you got, but isn't it interesting how much 01:48:27.959 --> 01:48:33.119 fewer mistakes with a Big M they seem to make if they're allowed to make 01:48:33.119 --> 01:48:34.739 a lot of mistakes with small lambs? 01:48:35.459 --> 01:48:37.829 You know, have you not found that, what. 01:48:38.834 --> 01:48:39.074 Nicole Jones: Yeah. 01:48:39.074 --> 01:48:43.974 Well, and even just going to thinking back and teaching at other schools, 01:48:44.304 --> 01:48:48.204 I was writing out incident reports multiple times a day for injuries 01:48:48.204 --> 01:48:49.164 and things that were happening. 01:48:49.524 --> 01:48:49.584 Yeah. 01:48:49.614 --> 01:48:53.784 And now it, we don't have injuries and things that happen at the farm. 01:48:53.784 --> 01:48:57.294 Now, the first few weeks when children come, we'll get bumps and bruises and 01:48:57.294 --> 01:48:59.724 somebody gets hit by the swing 'cause they're not used to where it is. 01:48:59.724 --> 01:49:00.534 You know, that happens. 01:49:00.954 --> 01:49:05.754 But after that we don't deal with we don't deal with injuries and stuff. 01:49:05.754 --> 01:49:09.984 I mean, you know, it, occasionally we'll have things come up, but because kids 01:49:09.984 --> 01:49:15.294 are allowed to, to try and take the risk, because typically at more you know, 01:49:15.294 --> 01:49:18.684 playground settings, they're jumping off of higher things 'cause they're bored. 01:49:18.744 --> 01:49:22.074 They don't, they're, or they're so controlled and you can't go up the slide. 01:49:22.384 --> 01:49:23.944 And, you know, so they're, and they're boiling 01:49:23.944 --> 01:49:24.724 Rupert Isaacson: over with energy. 01:49:24.724 --> 01:49:25.024 Yeah. 01:49:25.294 --> 01:49:25.624 Nicole Jones: Yes. 01:49:25.629 --> 01:49:25.949 Exactly. 01:49:25.949 --> 01:49:26.549 Overwhelms 01:49:26.549 --> 01:49:27.724 Rupert Isaacson: their thought process because they've 01:49:27.724 --> 01:49:28.894 been sat still for so long. 01:49:29.014 --> 01:49:29.224 Yeah. 01:49:29.284 --> 01:49:30.004 Nicole Jones: Right, right. 01:49:30.004 --> 01:49:35.014 And so here, because they're, we're, there's, you know, freedom within 01:49:35.014 --> 01:49:36.784 boundaries and reasonable boundaries. 01:49:36.784 --> 01:49:40.584 And so once they learn where those reasonable boundaries are very 01:49:40.584 --> 01:49:44.394 quickly, they, they're able to just go and, and do their thing. 01:49:44.394 --> 01:49:48.534 And we, we don't have the same amount of injuries and nicks and bruises that 01:49:48.534 --> 01:49:50.424 I saw at a typical school setting. 01:49:51.494 --> 01:49:54.189 Catherine Ward: Well, we, we talked about earlier about giving them skills. 01:49:54.189 --> 01:49:59.139 So, so for example, when, when October and November comes around and we get people 01:49:59.139 --> 01:50:02.829 that are donating their pumpkins that have been out, you know, in their decorations. 01:50:03.039 --> 01:50:06.819 We'll get, I, I don't know, one year we got over a hundred pumpkins or something. 01:50:06.819 --> 01:50:12.609 So we have pumpkin smashing at school and, and so what fun, we don't just, 01:50:12.669 --> 01:50:15.369 we don't just say, here, go, go at it. 01:50:15.549 --> 01:50:17.319 We show them proper. 01:50:17.769 --> 01:50:19.689 Handling the way you hold a hammer. 01:50:19.869 --> 01:50:24.339 And we say you can use the blunt end or you can use the hook end, but when 01:50:24.339 --> 01:50:28.959 you swing, be aware of where your legs are, you don't want your feet together. 01:50:28.989 --> 01:50:31.329 'cause if you swing, you might hit your shin. 01:50:31.329 --> 01:50:36.249 And so we go through this lecture of safety, and then we 01:50:36.249 --> 01:50:37.689 usually give them a hula hoop. 01:50:37.689 --> 01:50:42.249 So they're, each child is inside of a hula hoop with their pumpkin and hula 01:50:42.249 --> 01:50:45.789 hoops have to be so hi so far away. 01:50:46.069 --> 01:50:49.039 And then, and then after they've been given the instructions and the skills, 01:50:49.039 --> 01:50:52.999 then they, then they're able to go at it and they're just smashing those pumpkins. 01:50:52.999 --> 01:50:58.129 And, and you wouldn't, you wouldn't normally think you would allow 20, 01:50:58.129 --> 01:51:00.529 25 kids to be smashing pumpkins? 01:51:01.369 --> 01:51:01.699 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:51:02.239 --> 01:51:04.009 What about, what about things like firewood? 01:51:04.199 --> 01:51:10.529 You know, using, using an AXA split word saw, you know, knives for whittling 01:51:10.529 --> 01:51:13.049 or, or, you know, all of that sort of thing, which of course there's no way 01:51:13.049 --> 01:51:14.849 in any school anyone's gonna let you do. 01:51:15.489 --> 01:51:18.189 Catherine Ward: Those are usually reserved for the elementary kids. 01:51:18.189 --> 01:51:18.429 Now. 01:51:18.429 --> 01:51:21.819 Both, both the early childhood and the elementary both have campfires 01:51:21.819 --> 01:51:25.899 and we go through campfire training and safety and all of that stuff. 01:51:25.899 --> 01:51:29.289 And, but oddly enough, here in Texas, we only have maybe. 01:51:29.694 --> 01:51:33.864 A week or two weeks where we are that you can actually have a fire. 01:51:33.864 --> 01:51:33.924 Yeah. 01:51:33.924 --> 01:51:36.294 Because we're, we're summertime most of the time. 01:51:36.774 --> 01:51:41.474 The, the kids, now that they've been through a whole half of a 01:51:41.474 --> 01:51:45.514 year now, the elementary kids will be doing more with more tools. 01:51:45.544 --> 01:51:50.164 'cause we wanna give them more time on learning self-control because while they 01:51:50.164 --> 01:51:54.484 have freedom, that age group can still be really squirrely and everything. 01:51:54.484 --> 01:51:54.544 Yeah. 01:51:54.544 --> 01:51:59.284 And so when we can trust them to have some self-control is when 01:51:59.284 --> 01:52:00.814 we'll introduce some of that. 01:52:01.504 --> 01:52:03.014 Rupert Isaacson: Talk to me about bullying. 01:52:03.494 --> 01:52:09.974 So I've generally noticed that in these outdoor environments, you tend not to 01:52:09.974 --> 01:52:14.894 really see it unless it's something that's being brought from a regular 01:52:14.894 --> 01:52:18.764 classroom out into the natural thing. 01:52:18.764 --> 01:52:20.594 'cause the kids are just not in nature that often. 01:52:20.594 --> 01:52:25.514 So in their minds, they're still sort of back in the, the, the playground politics. 01:52:27.914 --> 01:52:32.174 Talk to us about, you've both been in the public school system, plenty of bullying. 01:52:33.194 --> 01:52:39.914 Talk to us about that or the lack of that at one acre farm and, and if it's a lack 01:52:39.914 --> 01:52:42.314 of it, what do you attribute that to? 01:52:42.314 --> 01:52:42.374 Two. 01:52:44.689 --> 01:52:45.464 Nicole Jones: You want me to start? 01:52:45.644 --> 01:52:46.949 You can start and then I'll, yeah. 01:52:46.949 --> 01:52:47.229 Okay. 01:52:47.414 --> 01:52:49.364 Usually where we. 01:52:49.994 --> 01:52:50.864 See it cummin. 01:52:50.924 --> 01:52:53.624 Now we, we don't deal with a bullying issue at school. 01:52:53.744 --> 01:52:57.404 And, and that's even with having a wide range of. 01:52:58.019 --> 01:53:01.079 Of children and very diverse backgrounds of children. 01:53:01.499 --> 01:53:03.959 So yeah, with, with that all in play, we don't deal with it. 01:53:04.209 --> 01:53:07.779 The only time we've had issues come in is, like you just said, when we have 01:53:07.779 --> 01:53:11.889 a kid coming in from the public school system and they come in and that's 01:53:11.889 --> 01:53:13.989 just like they're operating motive. 01:53:14.109 --> 01:53:16.119 'cause they just think I gotta survive and that's what I gotta do. 01:53:16.569 --> 01:53:17.229 And then. 01:53:17.469 --> 01:53:19.509 It's October, November, December. 01:53:19.569 --> 01:53:23.109 We see that all wane because they realize, okay, I'm a part of this 01:53:23.109 --> 01:53:26.379 community and I don't need to fight this. 01:53:26.379 --> 01:53:28.089 I don't need to hold my own. 01:53:28.089 --> 01:53:29.649 Like there are people looking out for me. 01:53:29.649 --> 01:53:32.379 I have friends who it well, and they quickly learn too. 01:53:32.589 --> 01:53:34.389 That doesn't work with the social dynamics here. 01:53:34.389 --> 01:53:36.639 If I start talking like that, nobody wants to play with me. 01:53:36.639 --> 01:53:40.569 And so there, there is that part of natural part of it that we let play out 01:53:40.569 --> 01:53:43.659 because we're not going to tell their kids, oh, hey, you have to play with 01:53:43.659 --> 01:53:46.209 so and so because that's what we do. 01:53:46.509 --> 01:53:49.119 You know, if somebody doesn't wanna play with you, well, why do you 01:53:49.119 --> 01:53:50.139 think they don't wanna play with you? 01:53:50.529 --> 01:53:52.209 Did you knock down their castle? 01:53:52.209 --> 01:53:54.369 Did you go and stomp on their mud out? 01:53:54.369 --> 01:53:55.149 Did you tell them? 01:53:55.149 --> 01:53:55.629 You know, whatever. 01:53:55.629 --> 01:54:00.939 So there's a ton of conversations that happen between teachers and kids. 01:54:01.299 --> 01:54:05.589 And then eventually our goal is later in the year is that the kids are having 01:54:05.589 --> 01:54:08.919 those conversations and they're not come having to come to the teachers anymore 01:54:08.919 --> 01:54:11.439 to help you know, lead that conversation. 01:54:11.649 --> 01:54:14.349 So the first few months, there is a lot of that. 01:54:14.889 --> 01:54:17.649 Oh, so and so said this to me, so and so hurt my feelings. 01:54:17.649 --> 01:54:18.489 So and so said this. 01:54:18.759 --> 01:54:22.489 And then we get the two together, we help them talk it out and 01:54:22.489 --> 01:54:23.419 then they go back to play. 01:54:23.509 --> 01:54:27.589 And so we, we don't do like, there's no timeouts, there's no taking recess away. 01:54:27.589 --> 01:54:28.669 There's nothing like that. 01:54:28.879 --> 01:54:31.609 Now if you're being unsafe, that's, that's where we do have a. 01:54:31.864 --> 01:54:34.024 You know, the boundaries get bumped up. 01:54:34.024 --> 01:54:36.814 Then if you're being unsafe with an animal or if you're being unsafe with a kid, well 01:54:36.814 --> 01:54:38.254 then we have to take some privileges away. 01:54:38.284 --> 01:54:41.224 You can't go in the animal pen by yourself because you're being unsafe. 01:54:41.254 --> 01:54:45.304 You can't go over there where I can't see you as well because you're being unsafe. 01:54:45.304 --> 01:54:50.314 So once they learn, my privileges get taken away they, they quickly, 01:54:50.314 --> 01:54:52.234 they quickly kind of change course. 01:54:52.234 --> 01:54:57.704 And so, it's been very rare that we've had issues last beyond a few weeks. 01:54:57.974 --> 01:55:00.559 It, it tends to write itself pretty, pretty quickly. 01:55:00.859 --> 01:55:04.699 I would say when we do tours, especially with, with the age group I work 01:55:04.699 --> 01:55:07.699 with, that is a question of about. 01:55:08.014 --> 01:55:11.044 30 to 50% of my parents at walked through, they ask about bullying and 01:55:11.044 --> 01:55:12.544 how the social dynamics are here. 01:55:12.724 --> 01:55:12.814 Mm-hmm. 01:55:13.094 --> 01:55:17.594 So it is something, it tells me like, even it's so prevalent that even before 01:55:17.594 --> 01:55:20.834 kids are school age, like parents are already thinking about this. 01:55:21.134 --> 01:55:24.584 And so that's something that we really want to strive. 01:55:24.614 --> 01:55:28.904 We want to provide a peaceful environment for these kids here, but we also 01:55:28.904 --> 01:55:31.814 want them to be able to have enough freedom to work out, you know what? 01:55:31.814 --> 01:55:34.124 I said that that way and that didn't work out and now that 01:55:34.124 --> 01:55:35.054 kid doesn't wanna play with me. 01:55:35.054 --> 01:55:39.764 So there is, there's that expectation of kindness, but also you have enough 01:55:39.764 --> 01:55:43.364 freedom that you can try things and then learn from your mistakes. 01:55:43.424 --> 01:55:47.394 So, but that's a hard boundary to teach and it's something that even as 01:55:47.394 --> 01:55:50.484 it comes up in real time, sometimes as teachers we have to talk about, you 01:55:50.484 --> 01:55:51.564 know, how are we gonna handle this? 01:55:51.894 --> 01:55:56.664 Because it's, it's not a black and white, oh, you said this now this 01:55:56.664 --> 01:55:58.554 is a consequence type of deal. 01:55:58.744 --> 01:55:59.674 Because that's how life is. 01:55:59.674 --> 01:56:01.624 Everything is so dynamic day to day. 01:56:01.954 --> 01:56:06.874 And so we just try and approach it with an attitude of solving it as best as possible 01:56:06.874 --> 01:56:08.074 and keeping a peaceful environment. 01:56:09.424 --> 01:56:12.514 Catherine Ward: Now with the ages of seven to 10, there, there's, you know, 01:56:12.549 --> 01:56:14.584 an, an elevation of maturity there. 01:56:14.854 --> 01:56:21.304 And that age group is very much more competitive and segregate themselves. 01:56:21.304 --> 01:56:24.874 Now we've got the boy girl dynamic going on, boys against 01:56:24.874 --> 01:56:26.014 girls, that kind of stuff. 01:56:26.344 --> 01:56:29.224 And again, the ones that come in from a public school 01:56:29.224 --> 01:56:31.654 situation will be the bullies. 01:56:32.104 --> 01:56:39.844 This, this age group tends to very much appreciate if I treat them as 01:56:39.844 --> 01:56:41.794 the growing up adults that they are. 01:56:41.914 --> 01:56:44.644 And I will tell them that I'm like, you know, if you're gonna act like 01:56:44.644 --> 01:56:47.944 a baby, then I may have to treat you like a baby, but I want to treat 01:56:47.944 --> 01:56:52.114 you like the growing up adult that you were, that you were becoming. 01:56:52.114 --> 01:56:54.094 And so I have expectations of you. 01:56:54.544 --> 01:56:59.384 And they like the, the way that we teach in the elementary class is very Socratic. 01:56:59.384 --> 01:57:02.624 So it's not just me standing up and talking. 01:57:02.624 --> 01:57:05.984 It's, it's a circle and it's very discussion oriented 01:57:05.984 --> 01:57:07.424 and interactive with them. 01:57:07.904 --> 01:57:10.724 And they like talking through this kind of stuff. 01:57:11.154 --> 01:57:14.214 I can tell you that is my short fuse. 01:57:14.214 --> 01:57:15.744 And if you wanna see Ms. 01:57:15.744 --> 01:57:19.494 Catherine blow a gasket, it will be to. 01:57:20.079 --> 01:57:25.269 Do something to an animal like kick dirt on a rabbit or poke a stick at a goat. 01:57:25.629 --> 01:57:30.459 Oh, Nicole will have to hold me back from wanting to annihilate a kid. 01:57:30.459 --> 01:57:32.439 I mean, I have to watch my temper on that. 01:57:32.739 --> 01:57:37.119 And then the other one is bullying or saying anything negative to somebody. 01:57:37.459 --> 01:57:40.729 'Cause you'll hear kids say, Ew, you have that in your lunch. 01:57:40.759 --> 01:57:41.749 Oh, that's so gross. 01:57:41.749 --> 01:57:42.559 I don't like that. 01:57:42.889 --> 01:57:46.639 And so then I try to use that as a teaching opportunity that people 01:57:46.639 --> 01:57:49.999 have different tastes, people have different whatevers with the. 01:57:50.504 --> 01:57:51.764 Ages seven to 10. 01:57:51.794 --> 01:57:53.804 We use a lot of object lessons. 01:57:53.804 --> 01:57:57.254 If I start to see that the kids are getting really catty and how they talk 01:57:57.254 --> 01:58:01.994 to each other and the whatevers and that kind of stuff, I will usually 01:58:02.024 --> 01:58:05.744 try to take a child aside and just talk to 'em, Hey, what's going on? 01:58:06.554 --> 01:58:07.874 Where did you learn to talk like that? 01:58:07.874 --> 01:58:08.354 Or something. 01:58:08.354 --> 01:58:11.244 And or, or how do you think that makes the other person feel? 01:58:11.244 --> 01:58:12.984 But then we'll do object lessons. 01:58:12.984 --> 01:58:16.314 I'll just, I, I won't address the whole group and say, okay, we're having a 01:58:16.314 --> 01:58:18.174 bullying problem, let's talk about it. 01:58:18.474 --> 01:58:23.264 I'll just make some kind of community group activity that we have to do that 01:58:23.264 --> 01:58:28.754 fosters teamwork or some type of object lesson that, that I, the first one I 01:58:28.754 --> 01:58:31.994 usually use at the beginning of every school year when they start getting that 01:58:31.994 --> 01:58:34.304 way, is about with a tube of toothpaste. 01:58:34.304 --> 01:58:37.364 And I think a lot of teachers have used this, like, okay, 01:58:37.364 --> 01:58:38.804 let's, let's see how fast. 01:58:38.804 --> 01:58:42.524 We have two teams and, and they have to squeeze the toothpaste out as 01:58:42.524 --> 01:58:46.004 fast as they can into the plate and who, who was the fastest to get the 01:58:46.004 --> 01:58:48.374 toothpaste out and they're screaming for each other and all of that. 01:58:48.764 --> 01:58:52.904 And then I'm like, okay, I have a dollar bill right here who can get 01:58:52.904 --> 01:58:55.274 the toothpaste back into the tube. 01:58:55.934 --> 01:58:59.114 And then they're looking at, they're like, now some of the smart 01:58:59.114 --> 01:59:01.544 ones will be like, well, let's cut it open and put it back in. 01:59:01.544 --> 01:59:05.054 And I'm like, no, you gotta get it back in the same way it came out. 01:59:05.054 --> 01:59:07.094 And so that it's, goes through this whole thing. 01:59:07.094 --> 01:59:09.674 And so then the, the gist of that lesson at the end is like, 01:59:09.674 --> 01:59:11.024 well, that's like your words. 01:59:11.054 --> 01:59:16.184 It is so easy for you to get words out, but once they're out, you can't. 01:59:16.909 --> 01:59:17.809 Put them back in. 01:59:18.199 --> 01:59:24.379 So be very, very careful and mindful of the words that you, you put out. 01:59:24.739 --> 01:59:28.249 And so every year, the kids that have been here before, they're like, 01:59:28.339 --> 01:59:29.689 when are we doing the toothpaste? 01:59:31.644 --> 01:59:35.209 So, so for that age group, I try to use object lessons. 01:59:35.289 --> 01:59:38.859 And a lot of times I'll get on Google and be like, object lessons 01:59:38.859 --> 01:59:41.049 for being kind to one another. 01:59:41.049 --> 01:59:43.179 And, and I'll get ideas from that. 01:59:44.169 --> 01:59:48.129 Rupert Isaacson: I mean, so much of this really comes down to the, I think all 01:59:48.129 --> 01:59:51.879 schools go through this and all education, all, all places go through this. 01:59:51.879 --> 01:59:55.974 It's the culture is really, comes from the top down, right? 01:59:56.079 --> 02:00:03.999 I mean it, if you, if your main focus is kindness rather than equestrian 02:00:03.999 --> 02:00:09.489 skills or this therapy, or if you say no, let's just start with kindness, 02:00:10.539 --> 02:00:15.429 then the other stuff will fall into a category and a framework of kindness. 02:00:16.809 --> 02:00:22.029 But if we say, let's start with equestrian skills, or let's start with an idea 02:00:22.029 --> 02:00:27.249 of a particular therapeutic outcome or an academic outcome, then kindness 02:00:27.249 --> 02:00:31.359 might be sidelined in relation to that. 02:00:33.129 --> 02:00:37.059 So I retake my hat off to you guys and you know, for listeners who. 02:00:37.974 --> 02:00:39.594 Well, maybe that sounds a bit too good to be true. 02:00:39.624 --> 02:00:40.104 It isn't. 02:00:40.164 --> 02:00:46.654 I've, I've gone out there and over years seen what Catherine and Nicole do and 02:00:46.654 --> 02:00:50.254 it's, it's, it's not just impressive. 02:00:50.254 --> 02:00:52.264 It's quite unique. 02:00:52.374 --> 02:00:53.214 And we need more of it. 02:00:53.904 --> 02:00:56.454 So, and it's successful. 02:00:56.454 --> 02:00:56.934 That's the thing. 02:00:56.934 --> 02:01:02.274 I've, I've just seen you constantly, constantly achieve success. 02:01:02.634 --> 02:01:06.474 So you guys are mentors and that's really why I want you on the show. 02:01:06.929 --> 02:01:09.564 We, we, we've sort of gone over the two hour mark, so we should wrap up. 02:01:10.434 --> 02:01:14.814 How do people contact you if they want consultations, if they wanna learn, 02:01:14.814 --> 02:01:18.474 if they want to put their own one acre farm together, if they want to know, 02:01:19.104 --> 02:01:23.904 you know, the ideas for lesson plans and so on, whether it's homeschooling 02:01:23.904 --> 02:01:26.784 or regular schooling, just talk us through how they can contact you. 02:01:28.014 --> 02:01:31.779 Catherine Ward: Well, if they go to the website, they which is www dot, and this 02:01:31.779 --> 02:01:36.369 is all spelled out, one acre farm tx.com, 02:01:36.369 --> 02:01:39.489 so that's O-N-E-A-C-R-E. 02:01:40.164 --> 02:01:42.744 F-A-R-M-T x.com 02:01:42.984 --> 02:01:46.674 Well then we have a contact page where they can send us an email if they wanna 02:01:46.674 --> 02:01:48.534 speak specifically about early childhood. 02:01:48.534 --> 02:01:50.214 Nicole's email is on there. 02:01:50.244 --> 02:01:52.044 Elementary, my email is on there. 02:01:52.044 --> 02:01:54.004 And so, and then our phone number is there. 02:01:54.004 --> 02:01:56.344 So if they're in the US they can also text us. 02:01:56.584 --> 02:01:58.294 And then we are on Facebook. 02:01:58.344 --> 02:02:01.644 Also is one Acre Farm TX on Facebook. 02:02:02.034 --> 02:02:06.084 So those are probably the, the major ways that they can get in contact with us. 02:02:07.344 --> 02:02:07.914 Rupert Isaacson: Fantastic. 02:02:08.514 --> 02:02:09.864 Catherine Ward: Oh, here, I'll put out the number now. 02:02:09.864 --> 02:02:13.524 So if they wanna text us, it's eight three two eight three two. 02:02:14.004 --> 02:02:15.204 Well my phone's gonna blow up now. 02:02:15.744 --> 02:02:21.294 Eight eight three two eight six zero four seven five six. 02:02:21.624 --> 02:02:22.464 And it's kind of funny. 02:02:22.464 --> 02:02:23.094 Say that one more time 02:02:23.094 --> 02:02:24.384 Rupert Isaacson: just so people are grabbing their pen. 02:02:24.864 --> 02:02:25.284 Catherine Ward: Yes. 02:02:25.524 --> 02:02:32.154 8 3 2 8 6 0 4 7 5 6. 02:02:32.674 --> 02:02:36.004 I can tell you if you call it will go to voicemail because I 02:02:36.004 --> 02:02:38.224 can very rarely answer my phone. 02:02:38.224 --> 02:02:41.104 And in the voicemail it will tell you, please text me. 02:02:41.374 --> 02:02:46.084 'cause if you text, I can usually shoot out a quick text and say, Hey, let's 02:02:46.084 --> 02:02:47.494 make a phone appointment or something. 02:02:48.004 --> 02:02:50.044 Rupert Isaacson: And you have WhatsApp on that number too? 02:02:50.824 --> 02:02:51.814 Catherine Ward: Oh yes, I do. 02:02:51.874 --> 02:02:52.534 I do, yes. 02:02:52.534 --> 02:02:55.114 So if they have a WhatsApp then internationally we can, 02:02:55.234 --> 02:02:56.404 they can get me through there. 02:02:56.434 --> 02:02:56.794 Yes. 02:02:56.794 --> 02:02:57.184 Rupert Isaacson: Super. 02:02:57.514 --> 02:02:59.314 Okay then. 02:03:00.049 --> 02:03:02.989 Listen guys I think we should have you back at a later date 02:03:02.989 --> 02:03:07.169 to go into some further things about specific, you know, teaching 02:03:07.169 --> 02:03:08.969 specifics in specific ways and so on. 02:03:09.209 --> 02:03:09.269 Yeah. 02:03:09.329 --> 02:03:11.669 But it's been an absolute delight to have you on. 02:03:11.879 --> 02:03:16.019 And I just look forward to seeing more and more of the same successes 02:03:16.019 --> 02:03:17.639 and watching you guys grow. 02:03:18.089 --> 02:03:21.353 And my, my ideal would be, yeah, if there's one acre 02:03:21.353 --> 02:03:22.373 farm in every neighborhood. 02:03:24.143 --> 02:03:24.533 Catherine Ward: Thank you. 02:03:24.533 --> 02:03:26.003 I would, I would love that as a vision. 02:03:26.153 --> 02:03:26.933 It's been a joy. 02:03:26.933 --> 02:03:28.223 Thank you for having us, Rupert. 02:03:28.703 --> 02:03:29.033 Rupert Isaacson: Well, well 02:03:29.038 --> 02:03:29.368 Catherine Ward: thank you very much. 02:03:30.308 --> 02:03:30.893 Rupert Isaacson: Thank you, Nicole. 02:03:30.893 --> 02:03:31.643 Thank you, Catherine. 02:03:31.643 --> 02:03:32.813 We'll see you next time. 02:03:33.173 --> 02:03:33.623 Catherine Ward: Yes. 02:03:33.628 --> 02:03:33.968 Alright. 02:03:34.268 --> 02:03:34.488 Rupert Isaacson: Bye. 02:03:35.028 --> 02:03:35.248 Catherine Ward: Bye. 02:03:35.547 --> 02:03:38.667 Rupert Isaacson: I hope you enjoyed today's 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