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Peter Martin.

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Hey, what's up? I'll tell you what's up.

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I'm excited about today's show

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because on today's show we've got the guys from the One

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Song podcast joining

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Us. Oh, I love that podcast

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you talking about with,

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uh, Diallo and Luxxury.

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Exactly. It's a great show.

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And those guys have such cool names, Diallo and Luxxury,

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and we're sitting here with, you know,

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just Peter and Adam. I thought, well,

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That's okay. Peter Adams okay.

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It's all right. But I thought maybe today we can give

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ourselves some really cool nicknames, you know?

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Oh, okay. I got it. I got it.

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Um, Chick Corea and Herbie Hancock.

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It's a little on the nose. I like where your head's at,

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but it's a little too obvious.

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What about like, I'll be Ello and you could be Top Shelf.

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How about if I'm Top Gun in your Cialis?

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Uh, I don't think I want to be Cialis for this show. Okay.

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No, but what if it's Maverick and Goose?

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Uh, you know what? No, no, no.

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Um, I think I'll be, I'll be, I'll be, I'll be sure.

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Alright, that's good. Then I'll be

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Christopher Williams. How about that?

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Oh, I'm in,

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I am Adam Maness. And I'm

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Peter Martin, And you're listening

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to the You'll Hear It podcast. Music, Explored.

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Explored brought to you today by Open Studio.

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Go to openstudiojazz.com for all your jazz lesson needs.

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Peter. We say it every single week,

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almost nowadays that it's a big day.

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No, you know what? We're throwing out all those previous

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weeks where we said it's a big day.

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'cause today, today's, I mean,

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look at this. This is a big day.

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We are so thrilled to be joined by Luxxury and Diallo. Yes.

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From the incredible One song podcast. We're such huge fans.

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Thank you guys for being here.

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Thanks for having us, guys. Thanks for having us.

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I think we're gonna geek out. Oh, man.

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We, we, we've already been here. Geeking out.

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We're gonna go next level, right?

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For sure. So this is kind of a, this is kind

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of the second part of a coin where a couple

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of weeks ago we talked to, uh,

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the lovely gents from switched on Pop about jazz musicians

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playing on popular recordings.

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We focused a lot on like Robert Glasper,

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on Kendrick Lamar stuff. And who, who,

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Sorry. Okay.

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Bobby G.

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And, uh, but we, in that conversation,

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we said we should really talk, like,

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have a whole distinct episodes about samples.

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And we thought, well, who better talk to about

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that than these two guys?

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So yeah, we're stoked.

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We're gonna dive deep into some of our favorite examples of

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samples of jazz recordings used in hip hop.

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And honestly, there's so much to pick from.

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I was just saying before we started, this is the most full

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our illustrious iPad has ever been

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setting up, up for an episode. That's right.

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That's right. We should have got the higher memory model,

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but that's for another discussion.

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Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting that, you know, Adam,

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you're kind of putting the ground rules

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in, uh, which is interesting.

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'cause I think you're gonna be the first one

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to stretch the grow rules.

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You said Ja, samples

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of jazz records rules are meant to be broken in hip hop.

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Right. Come on, man. What are we doing? I think Luxxury

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diallo myself all, you know, we understood the assignment,

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so a little foreshadowing there.

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We'll see if you did as well.

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Well, maybe we can just start,

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I know this is gonna seem very basic, uh, for you all,

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but let's talk about what is jazz?

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Well, I was gonna actually say like,

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Easy, easy.

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How are we, how are we defining a sample,

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which is maybe a little bit more complicated than,

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or less straightforward than it seems.

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Yeah. Um, but

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how would you guys define a sample

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specifically used in hip hop?

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Is this a trick question? No,

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This is what I'm saying, right? It

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seems like, oh yeah, everybody,

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We have recorded material in a new composition.

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Mm-hmm. Uh, that would be the technical,

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boring, dry definition.

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Diallo, give 'em some color commentary.

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Here we go. Here we go. Army

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Black guy, bringing the color.

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Check it out. I think, I think

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what we wanna say right off the bat is

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that we really adhere to the rules.

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We we're talking samples, for the most part.

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We're talking samples in the jazz field.

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And we're not talking about, uh, something that my co, uh,

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hosts podcast friend has talked a lot about, which is,

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uh, do you wanna say it?

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Interation? I knew it was coming.

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I knew we were gonna say. I was like,

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who's gonna say it? First

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Episode? This is

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not that episode, Guys,

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This is not the Interpolation episode.

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This is not the interpolation.

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So if you're sampling, if you're sampling, uh, you know

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Lonnie Smith, you're sampling Lonnie Smith.

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You're not having some guy come in and, and replay Lonnie.

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You, you, you, are you, I mean, actually, that is

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where my dry definition comes in handy,

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because there are people for whom the

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distinction, they're unclear.

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Right? The difference between an interpolation

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and a sample is an interpolation is a replayed musical idea

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from another composition from another song.

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A sample is you literally take a piece of the recording

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and you put it in to the new recording.

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Could be a sound, could be a loop if you're in Jamaica.

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Could be the entire rhythm, the entire track.

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Um, but that's the main distinction between the two terms.

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And it's interesting because some,

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sometimes interpolation, it's hard to tell

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that it's a rerecording of a familiar, original recording.

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True. And sometimes a sample is hard to,

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as we're gonna find out today, it's hard to pinpoint Wait,

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is that actually from that record?

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Because we know that producers

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and DJs will, will, uh, mess with the original sample.

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Slowing it down. Sure. Speeding it up, changing the pitch.

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It's been so transformed from the original

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that it is a new sound, a new group of sounds, a new loop.

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Um, you know, part, I have a feeling

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that what's gonna come up a lot today

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besides genre porousness, which we've already alluded to,

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I don't think my pick kind of deserves

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to be called Jazz Franklin, or excuse me,

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hip hop when we get to it.

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Yeah. I will be. My pick is the one

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that will be maligned collectively.

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No, I disagree. I love it so much. No, it's a great,

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I'm psyching you out saying we were gonna

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malign. I don't know that

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It's technically hip hop.

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I don't think it makes the cut. I,

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I, I I think it is absolutely hip hop.

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Okay. Hot. And if I have to, if I have to go to bat

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for your sample, uh, your,

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your example sample, uh, I will, man. I mean,

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Hip hop light hot.

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Is that a term hiphop light?

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'cause that would Well, what, what makes we

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Get there? No, no. I mean, listen,

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I think let's, let's, as I like

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to say, let's rip the bandaid off.

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In the early nineties specifically,

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there was this whole conversation about

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what is hip hop and what is not.

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Yeah. Let's should say Hammer proper rap is not pop.

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If you think that, then stop, you know, like there was a lot

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of gatekeeping going on.

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But I don't think, I don't think that anybody would say,

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look, the jazz artists actually had a, the jazz artists

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who were sampled by US three

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or us three, um, they, they were excited

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to be like, relevant.

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And, and in the news again, I think that, you know,

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there was something about the dude's flow

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and the fact that we didn't know him previously.

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If, if Q-Tip had jumped on that track, yeah.

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It would probably be considered one

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of the great hiphop songs of the nineties.

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So I think let's, let's give them a little bit of slack.

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They were trying something different. Yeah.

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And, uh, yeah, we'll talk about it.

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Yeah. Well, now that

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we're here, I mean, we're kind of here.

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We, we've already already dropped what?

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It's, we were gonna save it to the end.

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I didn't mean to jump to the head. No, no, no.

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I think now did, no, let's,

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Let's keep it in order. Let's keep it in

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Order. All right. Well, stay tuned to the,

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in

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Hopeful also something look Forward to, it's very good.

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I guess we'll kick it off where we, where we, uh,

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had planned to kick it off, which is Peter, your pick.

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You wanna tell us what you picked and why you picked? Yeah,

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I did. And I think we're gonna go all around.

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So this is really, I'm excited to hear everybody's picks

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and takes and, and your guys reactions to mine, uh, as well.

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But I was thinking about, you know, jazz,

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there's so many great samples.

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Um, but this idea of,

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and you know, Bob James is,

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is famously the most sampled artist of all time.

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Um, of course a lot of people don't necessarily look at him

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as a jazz pist, but he's very much

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coming outta the jazz tradition.

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Um, Herbie Hancock is up there, number three,

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but a gentleman by the name

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of Lou Donaldson was the six most sampled and a lot of six.

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Who's compiling that? Um, I don't know,

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because that's a, that was our,

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our production team let us know that, you know,

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That's down the list.

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It is down the list. But the idea is this is this sample.

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And a lot of it is actually Idis Muhammad,

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who was an incredible drummer from in New Orleans, uh,

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13th Ward, shout out uptown New Orleans.

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But, you know, he played with everybody from actually

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with Bob James Ahad, Jamal Horace Silver, Betty Carter.

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Uh, but he also played with Sam Cook, a lot of r

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and b drummers, but he brought that New Orleans flavors.

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So on Lou Donaldson's 1967 Blue Note

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record, uh, Mr.

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Shing-A-Ling, this is Ode to Billy Joe.

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And it's become one of the most, I I, you know,

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this is the biggest part of the output

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of Lou Donaldson's sample.

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And it's basically been used as a drum break,

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as a drum groove, as an underlying groove.

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It's been chopped up in everything, but check it out.

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Oh, is Dr. Lonnie Smith on the B3

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Think so, yeah.

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But I mean, like, the precision of that groove

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with the snare drum.

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Yeah. It's got the New Orleans Street beat thing. Um,

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And it's, and it's on its own,

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which in especially early days, makes it very easy to sample

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and get some clean sounds out of it. Yeah,

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Absolutely. And also, just

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the way, so this is an RVG, Rudy van Gelder.

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Great jazz, um, friend of the pod. We're not sure. We

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We're hoping he's of the pod, maybe. Yeah.

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We've been a little bit hard on his piano sound,

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but he could record a drum.

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And apparently him and Idris were really tight.

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Idris loved the way he recorded.

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So a lot of this for sampling, you know,

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of course the engineering is a big part of it,

252
00:09:32,485 --> 00:09:35,085
but what Adre plays on here is just OB genius.

253
00:09:35,145 --> 00:09:36,245
So should we check out the first one?

254
00:09:36,245 --> 00:09:37,445
Maybe go to the most famous one you

255
00:09:37,445 --> 00:09:38,445
Think? Well, I think this is probably

256
00:09:38,445 --> 00:09:39,045
the most famous,

257
00:09:39,875 --> 00:09:40,525
Most of all,

258
00:09:57,455 --> 00:09:58,405
young and restless,

259
00:09:59,625 --> 00:10:01,245
Almost the exact same temple Too.

260
00:10:01,305 --> 00:10:03,605
That's Kanye West. Jesus walks from college dropout.

261
00:10:04,065 --> 00:10:06,125
Can I just say, yeah. Given everything that's happened

262
00:10:06,125 --> 00:10:07,845
with this dude, the Lion, we're at war

263
00:10:07,845 --> 00:10:11,645
with ourselves takes on such a different meaning now.

264
00:10:11,645 --> 00:10:14,045
Yes, he is absolutely projecting

265
00:10:14,745 --> 00:10:17,125
in such a outrageous way.

266
00:10:17,545 --> 00:10:22,045
Um, man, I, to to to to quote Kanye, I miss the old Kanye. I

267
00:10:22,165 --> 00:10:24,085
Remember, Dude, I remember those days. This

268
00:10:24,085 --> 00:10:27,045
Whole album, college Dropout is so interesting

269
00:10:27,065 --> 00:10:28,245
to listen to right now.

270
00:10:28,765 --> 00:10:30,885
'cause you will get Yeah. Like, it'll be like, oh my gosh.

271
00:10:31,355 --> 00:10:32,845
Like what he said back then. Yeah.

272
00:10:32,845 --> 00:10:34,525
And it's also makes it kind of sad

273
00:10:34,805 --> 00:10:37,005
'cause it was so, it's so sad. Incredible. Yeah.

274
00:10:37,115 --> 00:10:39,125
It's so sad. It's like, it's like you lost a friend.

275
00:10:39,185 --> 00:10:41,045
It is. And you know, anybody who's ever had a friend

276
00:10:41,045 --> 00:10:42,845
and the friendship got ruptured for some reason,

277
00:10:42,845 --> 00:10:46,685
you're just like, damn, were we ever on the same page?

278
00:10:46,685 --> 00:10:48,325
Or did we just think we were on the same page?

279
00:10:48,445 --> 00:10:50,125
I mean, like, I'll I'll say my favorite, um,

280
00:10:50,745 --> 00:10:52,805
my favorite Kanye records are literally,

281
00:10:53,065 --> 00:10:54,245
uh, late registration.

282
00:10:54,275 --> 00:10:55,485
Yeah. And graduation.

283
00:10:55,685 --> 00:10:57,365
I think that those two took

284
00:10:57,365 --> 00:10:59,445
what he started on College Dropout.

285
00:10:59,445 --> 00:11:01,245
They took it to a whole nother level.

286
00:11:01,305 --> 00:11:03,325
The, the, the, the sampling. The looping.

287
00:11:03,325 --> 00:11:04,965
Like, you know, just, it was,

288
00:11:05,105 --> 00:11:07,325
but gosh, we're at war with ourselves now.

289
00:11:07,325 --> 00:11:09,445
When I hear that line, I'm like, Kanye's at war with Kanye.

290
00:11:09,515 --> 00:11:10,645
Yeah, right. It's just

291
00:11:10,645 --> 00:11:11,645
Sad. Kanye was ahead

292
00:11:11,645 --> 00:11:12,365
of his time, but I think

293
00:11:12,415 --> 00:11:13,415
Major downer.

294
00:11:13,625 --> 00:11:15,005
No, no, no. He was ahead of his time.

295
00:11:15,305 --> 00:11:17,205
He might've looped back around to now being

296
00:11:17,205 --> 00:11:18,605
behind the time somehow.

297
00:11:19,105 --> 00:11:21,605
But I mean, I think that those d like, that's actually sort

298
00:11:21,605 --> 00:11:23,885
of, I've always felt like that's the trilogy, right?

299
00:11:23,885 --> 00:11:25,405
That's the sort of Trident of Kanye.

300
00:11:25,555 --> 00:11:26,725
That was the trilogy. Yeah. You know?

301
00:11:27,165 --> 00:11:29,365
Absolutely. Yeah. And graduation was when he permanently,

302
00:11:29,545 --> 00:11:33,325
you know, he famously it was like, um, in Britpop they had,

303
00:11:33,345 --> 00:11:35,325
uh, the Great Escape versus what's the story?

304
00:11:35,325 --> 00:11:36,365
Morning Glory. Mm-hmm.

305
00:11:36,365 --> 00:11:38,005
And in hip hop, you know, like two albums

306
00:11:38,005 --> 00:11:39,685
that everybody's like, if you're a fan, go out

307
00:11:39,685 --> 00:11:40,765
and support your artist.

308
00:11:41,305 --> 00:11:44,885
And graduation came out the same as some 50 cent album,

309
00:11:44,885 --> 00:11:46,205
which I don't even remember the name of it.

310
00:11:46,585 --> 00:11:47,685
And Kanye beat him.

311
00:11:47,785 --> 00:11:49,085
And everybody was like, well that's,

312
00:11:49,085 --> 00:11:50,165
that's the passing of the torch.

313
00:11:50,185 --> 00:11:52,365
And it really was, it was, uh, I feel like

314
00:11:52,365 --> 00:11:55,325
after that 50 cent was never sort of like the, um,

315
00:11:55,675 --> 00:11:56,925
marquee artist that, you know,

316
00:11:56,925 --> 00:11:58,245
this new generation was becoming.

317
00:11:58,295 --> 00:11:59,525
Right. For sure. For sure.

318
00:11:59,755 --> 00:12:02,925
Well, speaking of marquee artists, the next, uh, uh,

319
00:12:02,925 --> 00:12:05,165
artist that uses the O to Billy Joe sample

320
00:12:05,165 --> 00:12:07,205
with Idris Muhammad is huge.

321
00:12:07,205 --> 00:12:08,205
Another huge album here.

322
00:12:10,425 --> 00:12:14,565
Zion. It is

323
00:12:14,565 --> 00:12:16,165
so distinctive with that role. Yeah.

324
00:12:16,305 --> 00:12:17,725
You know? Yeah.

325
00:12:19,035 --> 00:12:21,085
Yeah. This one, they actually took out some of the inner,

326
00:12:21,235 --> 00:12:23,925
this, the snares in between, but the roll there,

327
00:12:25,355 --> 00:12:27,965
This is of course Zion from Lauryn Hill.

328
00:12:28,525 --> 00:12:30,165
Miseducation of Lauryn Hill.

329
00:12:30,745 --> 00:12:32,325
And, and who produced that? Who produced

330
00:12:32,435 --> 00:12:33,645
Zion? Who produced that song?

331
00:12:34,245 --> 00:12:35,645
I don't Know. Do we know We don't have

332
00:12:35,645 --> 00:12:36,965
that information in front of us. We

333
00:12:36,965 --> 00:12:37,965
Don't have that. Our wifi

334
00:12:37,965 --> 00:12:39,765
is off. We don't know what

335
00:12:41,075 --> 00:12:42,965
Well, I mean, there's a connective tissue right there.

336
00:12:42,985 --> 00:12:44,925
I'm, I'm seeing that. It looks like it was produced by, uh,

337
00:12:44,925 --> 00:12:46,965
Lauren Hill, who actually gave a production credit

338
00:12:47,145 --> 00:12:48,365
to She Ra.

339
00:12:49,465 --> 00:12:51,005
Oh, nice. Um,

340
00:12:51,525 --> 00:12:53,325
I didn't realize he was that busy in the studio.

341
00:12:53,825 --> 00:12:56,125
No. What's crazy is that, uh, you know,

342
00:12:56,125 --> 00:12:58,965
think about Kanye's very first, uh, all falls down

343
00:12:59,025 --> 00:13:00,325
as a sample of Lauryn Hill.

344
00:13:00,325 --> 00:13:01,525
So he was clearly Yeah.

345
00:13:01,595 --> 00:13:04,205
Digesting not just Lauren's vocals,

346
00:13:04,205 --> 00:13:05,605
but like, some of her production.

347
00:13:05,625 --> 00:13:07,925
So he might have actually heard that, um,

348
00:13:08,275 --> 00:13:09,765
drum on Miseducation.

349
00:13:09,875 --> 00:13:11,565
Yeah. And thought, oh, I'm gonna put

350
00:13:11,565 --> 00:13:12,885
that onto, uh, Jesus Walks.

351
00:13:13,145 --> 00:13:14,685
See, these guys is real podcasting right here.

352
00:13:14,725 --> 00:13:16,445
I know, I know. It's amazing. Can we talk

353
00:13:16,445 --> 00:13:18,485
About Sharp 11 sharp nine chords here?

354
00:13:18,625 --> 00:13:19,625
I'm getting nervous, man.

355
00:13:20,505 --> 00:13:22,725
Uh, we've got, we've got just two more here from the,

356
00:13:22,785 --> 00:13:23,845
the O Billy Joel, real quick.

357
00:13:24,045 --> 00:13:25,605
I didn't know that this was it at all.

358
00:13:26,045 --> 00:13:27,325
I remember this song now that you

359
00:13:27,525 --> 00:13:28,685
Hopelessly Ink, when They say

360
00:13:29,285 --> 00:13:30,765
Eminem from the Marshall Mathers LP,

361
00:13:31,475 --> 00:13:34,125
Believe that it's over here we go all over again.

362
00:13:34,355 --> 00:13:39,085
Next stack, because I'm talking a lot. S**t.

363
00:13:39,085 --> 00:13:42,765
When I'm backing, there's a voice in the pack.

364
00:13:44,195 --> 00:13:46,165
Distinctive. It's that press roll, right? Yeah. Yeah.

365
00:13:46,165 --> 00:13:48,045
And that a press roll. Yeah.

366
00:13:48,105 --> 00:13:49,485
You know, it's almost like that New Orleans

367
00:13:49,555 --> 00:13:51,405
like a tambourine, you know? Yeah,

368
00:13:51,405 --> 00:13:52,405
Yeah, yeah. It's

369
00:13:52,405 --> 00:13:54,285
awesome. And then Peter, you pulled this one out, man.

370
00:13:54,525 --> 00:13:55,645
I don't know where you got this, but, well,

371
00:13:55,645 --> 00:13:56,805
This, this was on my mind.

372
00:13:57,045 --> 00:13:58,205
I actually didn't remember this,

373
00:13:58,265 --> 00:14:01,165
but I just saw the Spike Lee Denzel, uh, Washington movie,

374
00:14:01,955 --> 00:14:03,485
A$AP Rocky, of course, is in that.

375
00:14:03,585 --> 00:14:05,365
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And when I saw his name pop up

376
00:14:05,365 --> 00:14:07,005
as a possible sample e of this,

377
00:14:07,385 --> 00:14:11,085
So this is LSD Love, sex and Dreams. Yeah. Not 20

378
00:14:11,085 --> 00:14:12,085
Drugs.

379
00:14:21,735 --> 00:14:23,245
There It is. There's the press roll.

380
00:14:23,465 --> 00:14:24,965
So here's the stem of this.

381
00:14:24,965 --> 00:14:27,485
Just to hear the drums slowed down.

382
00:14:32,905 --> 00:14:34,365
He chopped and screwed it. He chopped.

383
00:14:34,365 --> 00:14:37,725
He chopped and screwed up those, uh, Lou Donaldson.

384
00:14:38,115 --> 00:14:40,605
Yeah. And I mean, that one, even like, the whole thing

385
00:14:40,605 --> 00:14:42,325
of like that groove, like

386
00:14:45,105 --> 00:14:46,105
Say it one more time. It's

387
00:14:46,105 --> 00:14:47,085
such a foundational,

388
00:14:48,985 --> 00:14:49,985
The original here.

389
00:14:53,905 --> 00:14:56,645
Now, before we leave this one, actually,

390
00:14:58,145 --> 00:15:02,605
before we started Diallo, you pointed out

391
00:15:02,635 --> 00:15:05,965
that this, that organ hit is actually sampled Yes.

392
00:15:06,385 --> 00:15:08,725
In this liquid, uh,

393
00:15:09,075 --> 00:15:11,325
song from Tha Alkaholiks. Tha Alkaholiks.

394
00:15:12,035 --> 00:15:13,885
That was, we loved the name of that group.

395
00:15:13,885 --> 00:15:15,085
We thought they were The best name

396
00:15:15,085 --> 00:15:18,285
Of the album is 21 & Over Classic.

397
00:15:19,095 --> 00:15:20,125
There it is. There's the hit.

398
00:15:27,945 --> 00:15:28,945
So good.

399
00:15:30,665 --> 00:15:32,165
Ah, that's good stuff. That stuff, man.

400
00:15:32,165 --> 00:15:34,325
That was upper, some real good stuff. Awesome.

401
00:15:34,635 --> 00:15:36,045
Cool. Well, all right.

402
00:15:36,045 --> 00:15:39,605
Next up, um, we're gonna go with some of dial's picks here.

403
00:15:39,665 --> 00:15:42,485
So Diallo, you started with the Heath Brothers, um,

404
00:15:42,825 --> 00:15:44,725
the Smilin' and Billy Suite Pt. II.

405
00:15:45,345 --> 00:15:46,845
You wanna tell us about that one? Yeah. The

406
00:15:46,845 --> 00:15:49,965
Heath Brothers, uh, um, American Jazz Group out of, uh,

407
00:15:50,125 --> 00:15:51,165
I think they were out of Philly.

408
00:15:51,745 --> 00:15:55,085
And, um, you know, they're just one of those groups.

409
00:15:55,365 --> 00:15:57,125
I feel like, you know, jazz

410
00:15:57,505 --> 00:16:00,845
and hip hop were so symbiotic in the early nineties.

411
00:16:01,045 --> 00:16:04,045
'cause I think that, you know, the rappers were listening to

412
00:16:04,045 --> 00:16:05,885
what their parents were listening to.

413
00:16:06,065 --> 00:16:08,445
And specifically East Coast rappers.

414
00:16:08,985 --> 00:16:11,245
You know, the guys like Q-Tip and pre and,

415
00:16:11,245 --> 00:16:13,725
and Premier, um, and Pete Rock.

416
00:16:14,225 --> 00:16:15,845
You know, you got the sense that they were definitely

417
00:16:15,845 --> 00:16:19,285
listening to the soul and the funk of the seventies.

418
00:16:19,385 --> 00:16:22,125
But like, their parents had dope record collections

419
00:16:22,125 --> 00:16:24,565
because they were also hearing, you know,

420
00:16:24,815 --> 00:16:28,605
everything from Bobbi Humphrey, uh, to this song

421
00:16:28,605 --> 00:16:29,845
that we're gonna hear from the Heath Brothers.

422
00:16:29,955 --> 00:16:31,685
This song in particular, I really like

423
00:16:31,685 --> 00:16:32,805
because it's been picked over.

424
00:16:33,115 --> 00:16:36,565
It's like bison in, you know, native American culture.

425
00:16:36,885 --> 00:16:38,925
Like, it's, it's been picked over every single part

426
00:16:38,925 --> 00:16:40,165
of this song at some point.

427
00:16:40,165 --> 00:16:43,325
It's been used in somebody's great hip hop. Classic. Yeah.

428
00:16:43,425 --> 00:16:45,005
So I think that, uh, I, yeah.

429
00:16:45,035 --> 00:16:47,365
When I think about some of my favorite sampling,

430
00:16:48,035 --> 00:16:49,325
this one tends to come up

431
00:16:49,325 --> 00:16:51,525
because I just hear so many songs that have, uh,

432
00:16:51,595 --> 00:16:52,725
used various parts of it.

433
00:16:52,875 --> 00:16:55,405
It's, and at least this first part of it too, is so easy

434
00:16:55,465 --> 00:16:57,725
to spot because it's so distinctive sounding

435
00:16:57,725 --> 00:16:59,165
that you can hear it Yes.

436
00:16:59,665 --> 00:17:03,365
Fairly easily. Here's the right from the beginning,

437
00:17:16,665 --> 00:17:17,965
you getting out your thumb piano.

438
00:17:19,835 --> 00:17:20,885
Whatcha Are you reaching for

439
00:17:21,905 --> 00:17:22,905
Now?

440
00:17:24,105 --> 00:17:25,325
So, as Watch this. Here Comes,

441
00:17:25,325 --> 00:17:26,485
Here comes, here comes one more part.

442
00:17:26,585 --> 00:17:27,725
Let this part play. Hold on.

443
00:17:27,815 --> 00:17:29,125
Sorry. Um, I gotcha. Because it

444
00:17:29,125 --> 00:17:31,685
Was about to go, it was about to go to the next sample.

445
00:17:33,235 --> 00:17:34,405
Yeah. Watch, watch this.

446
00:17:34,955 --> 00:17:39,845
Just keep this in the back of your head. Right.

447
00:17:39,845 --> 00:17:40,845
Here it comes.

448
00:17:42,905 --> 00:17:43,325
Action.

449
00:17:48,475 --> 00:17:50,805
Laid back. Okay. Now you kill him. Now you can go.

450
00:17:53,065 --> 00:17:55,285
So that's Jimmy, Percy, and Tootie Heath.

451
00:17:55,585 --> 00:17:58,125
Uh, the Heath Brothers Smilin' Billy Suite Pt. II.

452
00:17:58,185 --> 00:17:59,925
Before you play, I just wanna say, yeah, like,

453
00:18:00,075 --> 00:18:01,925
this is such an interesting thing to me

454
00:18:01,925 --> 00:18:04,245
because the, I actually got a chance to play

455
00:18:04,245 --> 00:18:06,725
with Jimmy Heath when he was still around, you know,

456
00:18:06,995 --> 00:18:08,725
amazing saxophonists.

457
00:18:08,745 --> 00:18:10,605
And then, uh, Percy was the baseball.

458
00:18:10,645 --> 00:18:13,045
I mean, I used to transcribe his baselines from Miles

459
00:18:13,115 --> 00:18:14,885
Davis's records in the fifties and stuff.

460
00:18:15,185 --> 00:18:18,485
And 2D of course, legendary. Like, this is so atypical.

461
00:18:18,625 --> 00:18:20,005
So the stuff that they were known for,

462
00:18:20,165 --> 00:18:21,765
A lot of the stuff we're listening to today is the

463
00:18:21,765 --> 00:18:23,685
atypical cut on the jazz album. Yeah.

464
00:18:23,745 --> 00:18:24,765
And I think it's such a,

465
00:18:24,795 --> 00:18:27,845
like you talked about the connection between hip hop, um,

466
00:18:27,995 --> 00:18:29,605
with, with a lot of, and jazz Yeah.

467
00:18:29,605 --> 00:18:31,805
And jazz from, you know, your parents listening to it

468
00:18:31,805 --> 00:18:34,005
and then cutting up the records, uh, you know,

469
00:18:34,495 --> 00:18:36,205
crate diving and all that kind of stuff.

470
00:18:36,625 --> 00:18:39,525
But I think it's such a, a te like it's a maybe a little bit

471
00:18:39,525 --> 00:18:42,285
of an untold story about how hip hop, especially producers

472
00:18:42,995 --> 00:18:45,325
that are able to find these gems, they're not going

473
00:18:45,325 --> 00:18:47,925
to like the most popular heath brothers stuff.

474
00:18:47,925 --> 00:18:49,845
No. You know what I mean? They're finding these little gems.

475
00:18:49,845 --> 00:18:50,845
They're looking for something.

476
00:18:50,845 --> 00:18:52,125
They're not looking to say, oh,

477
00:18:52,125 --> 00:18:54,725
we took this Miles Davis kind of blue and sampled it.

478
00:18:54,725 --> 00:18:56,005
That's actually not sampled that much.

479
00:18:56,105 --> 00:18:58,525
You know, it's the other stuff. No, it's super interesting.

480
00:18:59,715 --> 00:19:00,965
Okay. Can I just ask a question

481
00:19:00,965 --> 00:19:02,525
because this is one reason why I love, uh,

482
00:19:02,695 --> 00:19:04,165
doing the podcast with Luxxury.

483
00:19:04,705 --> 00:19:07,685
Uh, 'cause it sounds like, I I always say I'm dumb in the

484
00:19:07,685 --> 00:19:09,605
sense that like, my public education,

485
00:19:10,065 --> 00:19:11,685
my public school education failed me.

486
00:19:11,965 --> 00:19:13,285
I, I, other than the drums,

487
00:19:13,285 --> 00:19:14,805
I don't really play a whole lot of instruments.

488
00:19:14,805 --> 00:19:17,285
So sometimes Blake, can you tell me like,

489
00:19:17,505 --> 00:19:18,685
do you know what instrument that is?

490
00:19:18,805 --> 00:19:20,085
'cause it sounds to me like vibes,

491
00:19:20,105 --> 00:19:22,565
it sounds like Ro hair style, vibraphone.

492
00:19:22,905 --> 00:19:25,085
Uh, but it also sounds like, it sounds like Peter and Adam.

493
00:19:25,145 --> 00:19:27,205
It sounds like you guys already know the answer to this.

494
00:19:28,355 --> 00:19:30,005
Yeah. I'll let you guys answer. If you already know.

495
00:19:30,115 --> 00:19:31,525
It's, I mean, I have some of these,

496
00:19:31,665 --> 00:19:33,485
but it sounds like this African instrument

497
00:19:33,485 --> 00:19:35,485
that's this half gorge shaped

498
00:19:35,545 --> 00:19:38,605
and then these metal tins, it's called a thumb piano

499
00:19:38,745 --> 00:19:41,005
or a kalimba sometimes call it.

500
00:19:41,385 --> 00:19:43,765
Um, they get very big Columbo or they get very, very small.

501
00:19:43,905 --> 00:19:45,525
But that's what it sounds like to me. Yeah.

502
00:19:46,225 --> 00:19:48,765
Wow. To me too, we talked, there was an earth wind

503
00:19:48,765 --> 00:19:51,125
and fire episode, I think we alluded to,

504
00:19:51,185 --> 00:19:53,085
to Maurice playing, playing that on one

505
00:19:53,085 --> 00:19:54,125
Of his, yeah. Oh, nice. Nice.

506
00:19:54,145 --> 00:19:56,405
Ramsey Lewis tunes, I think. Something like that. Yeah.

507
00:19:56,675 --> 00:19:57,925
They are murdered to tune.

508
00:19:58,065 --> 00:20:00,165
If you've ever had to tune one, you need like, oh yeah.

509
00:20:00,385 --> 00:20:02,085
Pliers band. Yeah. 'cause you have to bandaid

510
00:20:02,085 --> 00:20:03,205
Adjust the Yeah, yeah.

511
00:20:03,425 --> 00:20:05,205
Yes. My father had a coumba

512
00:20:05,345 --> 00:20:07,365
and uh, I used to fool around on it,

513
00:20:07,365 --> 00:20:09,525
but, you know, my father was part of this like, collective

514
00:20:09,525 --> 00:20:11,085
of black artists in Atlanta called the

515
00:20:11,085 --> 00:20:12,165
Neighborhood Art Center.

516
00:20:12,465 --> 00:20:14,925
And so my house was literally just, it was a bunch of like,

517
00:20:14,985 --> 00:20:18,165
you know, congas and, and kalimbas everywhere.

518
00:20:18,225 --> 00:20:19,885
And that was, those were the,

519
00:20:20,025 --> 00:20:21,565
but I remember, yeah, you used to have to like,

520
00:20:21,565 --> 00:20:23,245
take a thing and just bend it.

521
00:20:23,245 --> 00:20:25,165
It was very, it was very, uh,

522
00:20:25,465 --> 00:20:26,485
You gotta pull it in and out of

523
00:20:26,485 --> 00:20:29,125
where it's attached to the core. Yeah. 'cause the length of

524
00:20:29,125 --> 00:20:30,445
The thing would, would, I

525
00:20:30,445 --> 00:20:31,565
have not thought about that in a hundred years,

526
00:20:31,825 --> 00:20:33,285
But the sort of like, the sort

527
00:20:33,285 --> 00:20:36,125
of imperfect tuning is actually the sound of it.

528
00:20:36,405 --> 00:20:37,805
Actually, let's check out the Heath brothers one more time

529
00:20:37,805 --> 00:20:41,005
before we put the, the samples in our ears.

530
00:20:42,665 --> 00:20:46,445
And that's Stanley Cowell, a great jazz pianist and Columbus

531
00:20:47,025 --> 00:20:51,725
In Columbus. I really love how

532
00:20:51,725 --> 00:20:52,725
Like, cool. What instrument that is.

533
00:20:52,725 --> 00:20:53,525
I love it even more.

534
00:20:53,675 --> 00:20:56,525
Yeah. Oh, and also just to dial to your point,

535
00:20:57,695 --> 00:20:59,245
raise your hand if you went to public school.

536
00:20:59,505 --> 00:21:01,445
Hey, just so we know where we're all at. Come on. You know.

537
00:21:01,745 --> 00:21:04,005
Oh, okay. Blake's. So we we're gonna need some corrections

538
00:21:04,025 --> 00:21:05,685
and some check-ins from you. Sorry.

539
00:21:05,865 --> 00:21:07,565
At least in spelling doesn't Make me smart.

540
00:21:09,695 --> 00:21:12,645
Let's go with, uh, with probably the most well known Well,

541
00:21:12,645 --> 00:21:14,085
maybe the, the most well known version.

542
00:21:14,155 --> 00:21:15,965
This is, uh, Nas -- One Love.

543
00:21:18,425 --> 00:21:21,205
I'm Got six news on that Jack Kid. S**t is real.

544
00:21:21,745 --> 00:21:24,445
Yo, yo. Hey, yo. Check this s**t out. Hey, yo. Go.

545
00:21:24,445 --> 00:21:26,045
Gimme a cigarette, man. Yo, here you go. Here go.

546
00:21:26,045 --> 00:21:27,565
Here you go. Check it out, man.

547
00:21:27,695 --> 00:21:30,645
Check out what I got here, man. What is that?

548
00:21:31,865 --> 00:21:33,365
Yo, my man,

549
00:21:33,875 --> 00:21:36,205
Here comes guys up. But here comes real.

550
00:21:36,675 --> 00:21:39,045
What up kid? I know. S**t is f****d. Doing your b***h.

551
00:21:39,115 --> 00:21:42,725
When the cops came, shoulda slid to my crib. F*****g black.

552
00:21:42,745 --> 00:21:43,745
No time.

553
00:21:49,545 --> 00:21:50,565
Why don't your lady write you

554
00:21:52,925 --> 00:21:56,845
Flipping And listen to that whole thing

555
00:21:56,845 --> 00:21:59,405
that's from 1994 is Illmatic. Of course. That

556
00:21:59,405 --> 00:22:01,645
Was such a, that was such a breakthrough. It's

557
00:22:01,645 --> 00:22:02,645
So hard. It's

558
00:22:02,645 --> 00:22:06,365
so hard to even cut a NAS verse in that period short

559
00:22:06,365 --> 00:22:07,885
because he is telling a whole story.

560
00:22:07,885 --> 00:22:09,405
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, it's just,

561
00:22:09,865 --> 00:22:11,485
you know, shorty don't care.

562
00:22:11,555 --> 00:22:14,285
He's a snake two running with that fake crew that hates you.

563
00:22:14,285 --> 00:22:16,605
Like, you know, like he just, he paints such vivid pictures.

564
00:22:17,145 --> 00:22:18,685
Uh, AIO mad. It's crazy.

565
00:22:19,085 --> 00:22:21,365
I really love the use of that sample in that, in

566
00:22:21,365 --> 00:22:22,925
that track too, because they're,

567
00:22:22,925 --> 00:22:24,325
they're like pumping it in and out.

568
00:22:24,395 --> 00:22:25,925
Yeah. You know, they're keeping Yeah.

569
00:22:26,185 --> 00:22:28,085
The producers keeping like, it's Q-tip,

570
00:22:28,215 --> 00:22:29,525
Q-tip produced it Q-tip Produced.

571
00:22:29,705 --> 00:22:31,405
So the, the piano chords are in there.

572
00:22:31,405 --> 00:22:32,765
Like, I don't think a lot

573
00:22:32,765 --> 00:22:34,525
of producers would've kept in there. It almost

574
00:22:34,525 --> 00:22:35,205
Sounds like do. I

575
00:22:35,205 --> 00:22:36,965
Don't hear any, by the way, saxophone in there.

576
00:22:37,345 --> 00:22:40,005
Um, did you I didn't hear any sax. I don't So I

577
00:22:40,005 --> 00:22:41,005
Didn't Hear either. Yeah. That's

578
00:22:41,005 --> 00:22:41,685
Jimmy's,

579
00:22:41,685 --> 00:22:44,965
Jimmy's Jimmy Heath's main instrument is exactly Sax.

580
00:22:44,965 --> 00:22:46,565
Yep. You're right. Right. The base. You know why?

581
00:22:46,565 --> 00:22:48,605
Because part of, part of my obsession,

582
00:22:48,605 --> 00:22:50,245
and if you listen to our show, you, you,

583
00:22:50,245 --> 00:22:52,165
you've heard me talk about this with, especially

584
00:22:52,165 --> 00:22:54,485
with sampling, is when there's a disconnect between

585
00:22:54,715 --> 00:22:56,365
what you hear used in a sample,

586
00:22:56,515 --> 00:22:58,605
like literally the performances in the,

587
00:22:58,625 --> 00:23:00,005
in the section that was used.

588
00:23:00,155 --> 00:23:02,525
Yeah. And then who's actually been paid?

589
00:23:03,025 --> 00:23:04,685
Who gets the songwriting credit. Right.

590
00:23:04,685 --> 00:23:06,525
And therefore, who had to clear it only

591
00:23:06,525 --> 00:23:08,645
because, like we, I've just been going down the rabbit hole

592
00:23:08,645 --> 00:23:10,165
as we've been listening on this tune.

593
00:23:10,705 --> 00:23:14,125
And so James Heath is the only heath of the Heath brothers

594
00:23:14,625 --> 00:23:16,005
who was a writer of,

595
00:23:16,005 --> 00:23:18,005
of the Smile in Billy, you know, the original tune.

596
00:23:18,075 --> 00:23:20,885
He's the sole. He's, he gets a hundred percent of

597
00:23:20,905 --> 00:23:22,565
of the publishing on that.

598
00:23:22,565 --> 00:23:25,005
Therefore, when it gets sampled in the song we just heard,

599
00:23:25,425 --> 00:23:27,845
he gets 60% of one love.

600
00:23:28,185 --> 00:23:29,485
Wow. And his brothers,

601
00:23:29,785 --> 00:23:31,325
who I think we're hearing, I don't think we're

602
00:23:31,325 --> 00:23:32,405
hearing. We're not hearing

603
00:23:32,995 --> 00:23:33,995
Yeah, that's right.

604
00:23:34,285 --> 00:23:35,645
I don't think we're hearing, I think we're hearing

605
00:23:35,645 --> 00:23:37,725
what I like what I've been calling, uh,

606
00:23:37,725 --> 00:23:38,965
like sample phantoms.

607
00:23:38,965 --> 00:23:41,005
Yeah. You hear their performance. Yeah.

608
00:23:41,145 --> 00:23:43,245
But they aren't named and they aren't paid. Yeah.

609
00:23:43,385 --> 00:23:46,205
And I think, you know, in this tune, maybe it's, uh,

610
00:23:46,345 --> 00:23:49,845
2D Heath on drums, as you mentioned, it might be, um,

611
00:23:50,355 --> 00:23:53,285
pianist Stanley Cal, I see Listed per the,

612
00:23:53,285 --> 00:23:55,885
per the Heath brother named Percy.

613
00:23:55,885 --> 00:23:59,445
Again, not a writer. So that, to me, it drives me crazy.

614
00:23:59,515 --> 00:24:02,645
Like there's such a huge disconnect in copyright law. Yeah.

615
00:24:02,795 --> 00:24:06,085
With sampling between who may have gotten paid

616
00:24:06,085 --> 00:24:07,725
for publishing reasons back in the day,

617
00:24:07,865 --> 00:24:09,845
but sampling hadn't exist, didn't exist yet.

618
00:24:10,145 --> 00:24:12,125
And then in fast forward to the modern day

619
00:24:12,125 --> 00:24:14,805
where the reuse completely is based on a completely

620
00:24:14,805 --> 00:24:17,085
different system than when the song

621
00:24:17,085 --> 00:24:18,365
first came out and it didn't

622
00:24:18,365 --> 00:24:19,365
Matter. Well, let's, let's connect

623
00:24:19,365 --> 00:24:20,125
that to Nas. Right.

624
00:24:20,125 --> 00:24:23,365
Because we talked about that on a song, on a Nas song

625
00:24:23,365 --> 00:24:25,245
that sampled a sting song.

626
00:24:25,415 --> 00:24:27,445
Right. But the part that Nas sampled

627
00:24:28,185 --> 00:24:29,325
has nothing to do with Sting.

628
00:24:29,325 --> 00:24:31,085
Yeah. Like Sting didn't write it and he didn't play it.

629
00:24:31,345 --> 00:24:34,685
But Sting, like Steely Dan likes his publishing

630
00:24:34,745 --> 00:24:35,925
and so he gets all the money.

631
00:24:35,945 --> 00:24:39,045
And the guy who Nas actually sampled that artist, uh, sort

632
00:24:39,045 --> 00:24:40,325
of, sort of kept out of that. It

633
00:24:40,605 --> 00:24:41,645
Happens way too often.

634
00:24:41,655 --> 00:24:43,765
Borderline more often than not, in fact

635
00:24:43,765 --> 00:24:45,165
with sampling. But go on. Yeah,

636
00:24:45,685 --> 00:24:48,565
I was just gonna say real quick, um, also Tume, uh, used

637
00:24:48,565 --> 00:24:51,805
to play percussion with, uh, the Heath Brothers. So Right.

638
00:24:51,835 --> 00:24:53,765
That might be him playing the plucky. It might be him

639
00:24:53,765 --> 00:24:54,965
Playing the right.

640
00:24:54,965 --> 00:24:57,965
We dunno. And Tume, for those who Dunno, did Juicy Fruit,

641
00:24:57,965 --> 00:25:00,605
which was sampled by Biggie for Juicy. This

642
00:25:00,605 --> 00:25:01,845
Is on our, this is right here. It's

643
00:25:01,845 --> 00:25:02,845
A lot of The same folks. Yeah.

644
00:25:02,845 --> 00:25:04,165
Yeah. This is my next thing. Did you know that?

645
00:25:04,265 --> 00:25:05,265
And that's Jimmy Heath's son. Right.

646
00:25:05,305 --> 00:25:09,085
Did you know that Tume is also Jimmy Hit's son? What? Yes.

647
00:25:09,085 --> 00:25:11,205
That's right. I did not know that. James Tume. Yeah.

648
00:25:11,595 --> 00:25:13,485
Another, I know another Heath brother.

649
00:25:13,715 --> 00:25:15,485
That, that part I didn't know. And I mean,

650
00:25:15,535 --> 00:25:17,245
Jimmy Heath, Heath was like, I mean,

651
00:25:17,245 --> 00:25:18,725
he only passed a few years,

652
00:25:18,845 --> 00:25:20,325
I wanna say within the last four or five years.

653
00:25:20,515 --> 00:25:21,805
What? Yeah. But I mean, he,

654
00:25:21,805 --> 00:25:24,285
this was the son he had when he was like 2019 years old.

655
00:25:24,315 --> 00:25:25,325
Yeah. Oh

656
00:25:25,325 --> 00:25:26,325
My gosh. He, he lived to

657
00:25:26,325 --> 00:25:26,885
be nine three.

658
00:25:26,885 --> 00:25:28,205
Oh, wow. Yeah, he was Okay. That's amazing.

659
00:25:28,305 --> 00:25:30,325
He was the last one. And yeah, he was kicking it.

660
00:25:30,645 --> 00:25:33,045
I mean, I saw him at a jazz festival, I feel like last year.

661
00:25:33,145 --> 00:25:34,405
It was probably six years ago. He

662
00:25:34,405 --> 00:25:35,405
Was probably six years ago. I was gonna

663
00:25:35,405 --> 00:25:37,285
say. But that, it's a great point.

664
00:25:37,285 --> 00:25:39,325
Luxxury about, about who's playing what,

665
00:25:39,385 --> 00:25:42,245
and what is the sample actually built from and

666
00:25:42,725 --> 00:25:44,645
'cause I mean, even your Ode to Billy Joe

667
00:25:44,645 --> 00:25:45,725
with, uh, Lou Donaldson.

668
00:25:45,725 --> 00:25:47,485
Well, it's, it's all Aris Muhammad, you know,

669
00:25:47,485 --> 00:25:49,365
and Bernard Purdy's famously is on every,

670
00:25:49,425 --> 00:25:51,565
But Bobby Gen, Bobby Gentry, Eric Gentry,

671
00:25:51,565 --> 00:25:54,085
however you say her name is the soul publisher of that song.

672
00:25:54,085 --> 00:25:56,765
Right. So every song you heard the drumbeat in Bobby

673
00:25:56,885 --> 00:25:59,165
Gentry's not a state. She's still alive. Guys.

674
00:25:59,165 --> 00:26:00,885
Did we just, and The thing is, with jazz gets paid,

675
00:26:00,985 --> 00:26:02,085
and I mean, even up to this

676
00:26:02,085 --> 00:26:03,205
day, this is such a different thing.

677
00:26:03,205 --> 00:26:05,805
Like you were saying, Blake, how it's like, yeah.

678
00:26:05,805 --> 00:26:09,125
It was only one of them had the songwriting credit on

679
00:26:09,125 --> 00:26:11,645
that Jimmy Heath that was not only was,

680
00:26:11,665 --> 00:26:13,805
but still is super common in jazz.

681
00:26:13,955 --> 00:26:15,845
It's like very rare. We, like,

682
00:26:15,845 --> 00:26:17,725
we're always in the studio collaborating on stuff,

683
00:26:17,725 --> 00:26:19,365
but only one person takes the publisher.

684
00:26:19,505 --> 00:26:21,805
You know why band leaders we're dumb. The band leader. Yeah.

685
00:26:21,805 --> 00:26:23,445
The band leader. Because we're dumb and we wanna stay poor.

686
00:26:23,505 --> 00:26:24,805
That's the jazz musicians too.

687
00:26:24,805 --> 00:26:26,245
Well, wait, why is that between the two of you?

688
00:26:26,385 --> 00:26:27,645
Why don't you have a 50 50 split?

689
00:26:27,725 --> 00:26:28,765
I don't mean to start. That's a great,

690
00:26:29,235 --> 00:26:30,235
Well, great question. That's

691
00:26:30,235 --> 00:26:32,725
a good question. That's why we're gonna have you guys

692
00:26:32,725 --> 00:26:33,885
back to have that discussion.

693
00:26:34,595 --> 00:26:35,885
Guys, did we just start? No, no, but

694
00:26:35,965 --> 00:26:37,645
I mean, listen, I'm so curious, like,

695
00:26:38,145 --> 00:26:39,145
To jump on. Well, no, this is

696
00:26:39,145 --> 00:26:39,765
typically how it'd be,

697
00:26:39,795 --> 00:26:41,365
this is a little bit of oversimplification,

698
00:26:41,365 --> 00:26:43,965
but you're, especially back then, like Blue note, um,

699
00:26:44,205 --> 00:26:47,085
prestige verb, all these like classic recording CTI even

700
00:26:47,085 --> 00:26:49,525
going up into the seventies, like the band CTI.

701
00:26:49,675 --> 00:26:52,165
Yeah. See that, that that's an whole nother sample world.

702
00:26:52,165 --> 00:26:54,565
Freddie Hubbard, George Benson there. Yeah. Oh, good.

703
00:26:54,565 --> 00:26:56,805
But typically, like, you'd come in with the tunes

704
00:26:56,805 --> 00:26:58,045
and you might have a tune

705
00:26:58,045 --> 00:26:59,165
that somebody else in the band

706
00:26:59,165 --> 00:27:00,605
wrote, but just they wrote it.

707
00:27:00,625 --> 00:27:03,205
You bring it in, you either teach it or there's lead sheet,

708
00:27:03,205 --> 00:27:05,165
or you've been playing it on the road, but it's one person.

709
00:27:05,465 --> 00:27:07,445
And then everybody might contribute to it.

710
00:27:07,705 --> 00:27:10,805
But there's no, like, where's the line between, like,

711
00:27:10,805 --> 00:27:12,765
if you're just adding some parts and some solos

712
00:27:12,765 --> 00:27:14,925
and some little, you know, finger things

713
00:27:14,945 --> 00:27:17,205
or whatever, that's not, that's never gonna rise

714
00:27:17,225 --> 00:27:18,565
to the level of, part of the tune.

715
00:27:18,705 --> 00:27:20,005
You know, it probably should though.

716
00:27:20,425 --> 00:27:21,445
But, uh, here's the thing.

717
00:27:21,485 --> 00:27:24,365
I, I strongly, I think that's been my experience too.

718
00:27:24,425 --> 00:27:26,845
And I understand that that is the case for the most part.

719
00:27:26,845 --> 00:27:28,805
That is the established way that it is.

720
00:27:29,105 --> 00:27:31,445
But it also comes from an era of two things.

721
00:27:31,625 --> 00:27:33,285
One, there wasn't any revenue

722
00:27:33,425 --> 00:27:35,245
to be made if you're a performing musician.

723
00:27:35,295 --> 00:27:37,165
Right. If you're a jazz performing musician,

724
00:27:37,165 --> 00:27:40,205
you didn't really think necessarily beyond the next gig.

725
00:27:40,205 --> 00:27:41,365
Right. Or the next gig,

726
00:27:41,365 --> 00:27:44,885
meaning live performance on stage at Birdland or whatever.

727
00:27:44,945 --> 00:27:47,045
Or the next time you got hired to record.

728
00:27:47,385 --> 00:27:48,885
So you're motivated by two things,

729
00:27:49,305 --> 00:27:51,205
not rocking the boat so you get the next gig.

730
00:27:51,745 --> 00:27:53,485
And not necessarily being educated.

731
00:27:53,885 --> 00:27:56,485
'cause I had a publishing deal for at least two years

732
00:27:56,485 --> 00:27:57,845
before I understood what it was.

733
00:27:57,845 --> 00:28:00,165
Yeah. Publishing is complicated. Yeah.

734
00:28:00,165 --> 00:28:02,925
What the two pies of writing, like writers share

735
00:28:02,925 --> 00:28:06,285
and publisher share, it's an obtuse, complicated business.

736
00:28:06,345 --> 00:28:10,325
Yep. And it is easily misunderstood or just never explained.

737
00:28:10,575 --> 00:28:13,565
Right. So all this to say that I I, I have,

738
00:28:14,025 --> 00:28:15,685
I'm glad you guys are buds

739
00:28:15,805 --> 00:28:18,005
and I'm not gonna jump in there and screw that up.

740
00:28:18,745 --> 00:28:21,205
But I do, I do have strong opinions about like Yeah.

741
00:28:21,235 --> 00:28:25,605
What rises to the level of credit as songwriting mm-hmm.

742
00:28:25,705 --> 00:28:29,245
To me, often is based on power dynamics.

743
00:28:29,245 --> 00:28:30,285
And I want to get hired again

744
00:28:30,285 --> 00:28:31,605
and not be, you know, a problem.

745
00:28:32,125 --> 00:28:33,605
Yeah. May not be a Divo over here.

746
00:28:34,265 --> 00:28:36,845
And it doesn't really reflect the reality that since

747
00:28:36,915 --> 00:28:40,405
that norm was established a long time ago in jazz,

748
00:28:40,625 --> 00:28:43,805
in Jamaica, in in Rock, Herbie Flowers famously

749
00:28:43,805 --> 00:28:45,005
with like the Lou Reed, right?

750
00:28:45,005 --> 00:28:46,645
Mm-hmm. And the tribe called Quest sample

751
00:28:46,645 --> 00:28:49,045
that you only hear Herbie Flowers baseline in,

752
00:28:49,145 --> 00:28:51,085
but he got paid 50 bucks that day, right?

753
00:28:51,275 --> 00:28:54,005
Yeah. Hip hop didn't exist yet in 1975.

754
00:28:54,345 --> 00:28:58,005
All that stuff, to me, is a big reason why copyright law

755
00:28:58,135 --> 00:28:59,605
needs a huge, huge

756
00:28:59,605 --> 00:29:00,605
Overhaul. It needs a huge

757
00:29:00,605 --> 00:29:02,525
rewrite. And also, to your credit, Blake,

758
00:29:02,665 --> 00:29:04,125
I'd always assumed like, oh man,

759
00:29:04,125 --> 00:29:05,165
if I had been alive in the twenties,

760
00:29:05,325 --> 00:29:07,005
I would've been on Tin Pan Alley every day.

761
00:29:07,345 --> 00:29:08,925
You know, I would've been down there just copywriting.

762
00:29:09,025 --> 00:29:11,245
But songs, you know, like, here's a song about,

763
00:29:11,425 --> 00:29:12,845
here's a song about escalators.

764
00:29:12,845 --> 00:29:14,005
You know, like, just everything

765
00:29:14,205 --> 00:29:15,125
They were just invented. And

766
00:29:15,125 --> 00:29:18,805
Then, uh, but my favorite Bob, Mr.

767
00:29:18,945 --> 00:29:20,205
Uh, show sketch of all time.

768
00:29:20,545 --> 00:29:23,445
But, um, but Blake unfortunately told me that racism,

769
00:29:23,665 --> 00:29:24,925
racism, his ugly head again.

770
00:29:24,925 --> 00:29:27,885
And like a lot of times these black musicians had, you know,

771
00:29:27,885 --> 00:29:29,845
they were basically kept out of Tin Pan Alley.

772
00:29:30,025 --> 00:29:32,925
So once again, you know, like there, there were so many, uh,

773
00:29:33,325 --> 00:29:34,885
barriers, both, you know, mental

774
00:29:35,105 --> 00:29:36,365
and institutional that,

775
00:29:36,365 --> 00:29:38,645
that kept these guys from knowing their

776
00:29:38,715 --> 00:29:40,085
real, uh, their real worth

777
00:29:40,085 --> 00:29:41,085
Value. Well, I think,

778
00:29:41,085 --> 00:29:41,645
I think like your,

779
00:29:41,645 --> 00:29:43,845
your instinct about just like not wanting to rock the boat,

780
00:29:43,845 --> 00:29:45,845
especially during this era of, I mean,

781
00:29:45,845 --> 00:29:48,845
these guys were making dozens of albums every year,

782
00:29:48,845 --> 00:29:50,045
like as a side man, right?

783
00:29:50,045 --> 00:29:51,525
You would go to the studio all the time

784
00:29:51,585 --> 00:29:53,085
for one day, you would make one album.

785
00:29:53,535 --> 00:29:55,165
You'd sit in, you'd sometimes not know

786
00:29:55,165 --> 00:29:56,245
what you were doing till you got there.

787
00:29:56,345 --> 00:29:58,645
You got there. They called the tunes. You played the tunes.

788
00:29:58,905 --> 00:30:00,965
You got your 50 bucks or a hundred bucks

789
00:30:00,985 --> 00:30:02,165
or whatever it was gonna be.

790
00:30:02,305 --> 00:30:03,365
And that was a good day. You know,

791
00:30:03,365 --> 00:30:04,645
that's a good living to make.

792
00:30:04,665 --> 00:30:05,845
But you're not thinking like, well,

793
00:30:05,905 --> 00:30:08,125
I'd also added the, the intro

794
00:30:08,315 --> 00:30:09,565
Ever samples this, right?

795
00:30:09,565 --> 00:30:11,565
Yeah. Yeah. There's

796
00:30:11,565 --> 00:30:12,685
No consideration of that.

797
00:30:12,785 --> 00:30:14,445
And just to sort of counter, just one last thing,

798
00:30:14,445 --> 00:30:16,245
and I'll get off my soapbox about this topic.

799
00:30:16,555 --> 00:30:19,205
Just to counter the like, logical thing.

800
00:30:19,245 --> 00:30:20,365
I can imagine a listener

801
00:30:20,365 --> 00:30:22,565
or a commenter diving in YouTube right now.

802
00:30:23,255 --> 00:30:25,685
There is, that's just the way it is, man.

803
00:30:26,045 --> 00:30:27,845
That mentality to me is not the,

804
00:30:27,845 --> 00:30:29,245
that's not a good enough response.

805
00:30:29,305 --> 00:30:32,245
Agreed. Like, that's just how capitalism works, man. Yeah.

806
00:30:32,245 --> 00:30:35,325
Because then you, then you then don't take the gig,

807
00:30:35,555 --> 00:30:38,405
like is not an option when you're a musician.

808
00:30:38,435 --> 00:30:39,925
Your options for how you get paid

809
00:30:39,945 --> 00:30:41,125
are pretty limited already.

810
00:30:41,125 --> 00:30:43,125
Yeah. Your knowledge potentially about the industry,

811
00:30:43,435 --> 00:30:46,605
your ability to access a lawyer to vouch for you, all of

812
00:30:46,605 --> 00:30:47,765
that is very limited.

813
00:30:47,765 --> 00:30:49,045
Totally. If it exists at all.

814
00:30:49,305 --> 00:30:51,765
So the idea that you could just like, not take the gig if

815
00:30:51,765 --> 00:30:53,525
what you were offered the 50 bucks

816
00:30:53,585 --> 00:30:55,565
and not a split of the publishing Right.

817
00:30:55,565 --> 00:30:57,325
Wasn't good enough. You don't have that choice.

818
00:30:58,445 --> 00:30:59,565
Absolutely. I mean, and think about this.

819
00:30:59,665 --> 00:31:01,365
Are we part of the solution or the problem here?

820
00:31:01,365 --> 00:31:03,285
Like, we're gonna have, we're gonna clear rights on all this

821
00:31:03,285 --> 00:31:06,365
music when it goes up on YouTube for this episode.

822
00:31:06,545 --> 00:31:09,005
And then Aris Muhammad's not gonna get any of the

823
00:31:09,025 --> 00:31:10,205
Oh, no, he's not gonna get a penny.

824
00:31:10,385 --> 00:31:13,685
Lou do Blue Note Records will for sure. Uh, Lou Donaldson,

825
00:31:13,725 --> 00:31:16,045
Bobby Gentry's estate will be fine, right? Yeah.

826
00:31:16,185 --> 00:31:17,605
Lou Donaldson's estate may be

827
00:31:17,605 --> 00:31:18,845
through the writing part of it.

828
00:31:19,345 --> 00:31:20,885
Um, right. But Adre, Jimmy

829
00:31:20,885 --> 00:31:21,885
Heath, huh? 60%

830
00:31:21,885 --> 00:31:24,405
over there, but the rest of the Heath's 0%.

831
00:31:24,405 --> 00:31:25,645
Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

832
00:31:27,305 --> 00:31:28,725
Now that everybody's completely forgotten

833
00:31:28,725 --> 00:31:29,805
what the Heath Brothers sounds.

834
00:31:29,875 --> 00:31:31,405
Well, let's, let's, let's check back in

835
00:31:31,405 --> 00:31:32,405
with the Heath Brothers here.

836
00:31:32,475 --> 00:31:34,765
Wait on a second. We're, let's look at Rick Anos gonna

837
00:31:34,765 --> 00:31:35,765
give us a little more information

838
00:31:37,905 --> 00:31:40,965
Swipes in like, Oh, it's so great.

839
00:31:40,975 --> 00:31:42,965
There we go. The vibe. And

840
00:31:43,985 --> 00:31:46,085
So that's why we left it off. So

841
00:31:46,085 --> 00:31:48,765
You had, and then can you play us the, um, 'cause

842
00:31:49,085 --> 00:31:51,685
'cause Red Man sampled it very similar to Nas,

843
00:31:51,685 --> 00:31:54,445
but I love how he just let the beat completely, right?

844
00:31:54,445 --> 00:31:57,085
Like, didn't change it at all. It's bus, you know,

845
00:31:58,635 --> 00:31:59,635
It's a play.

846
00:32:00,705 --> 00:32:01,705
Nah, mother,

847
00:32:03,445 --> 00:32:06,605
I was flying through the mother f*****g slow it down.

848
00:32:09,475 --> 00:32:09,925
He's the

849
00:32:14,665 --> 00:32:17,445
got spread from Japanese to s

850
00:32:18,745 --> 00:32:21,205
That's from Red Man's 1996 album, muddy Waters.

851
00:32:21,915 --> 00:32:23,045
It's incredible. Great album.

852
00:32:23,305 --> 00:32:24,885
And then you have, you have one more on here,

853
00:32:24,945 --> 00:32:27,205
Diallo from the same year as Illmatic.

854
00:32:27,425 --> 00:32:29,085
You have the Beat Nuts, uh,

855
00:32:29,085 --> 00:32:30,965
their self-titled album from 1994.

856
00:32:31,225 --> 00:32:33,285
The Beat Nuts, very similar to the Alcoholics.

857
00:32:34,155 --> 00:32:35,685
They sampled another part of the song.

858
00:32:37,315 --> 00:32:38,925
That part you highlighted. Oh,

859
00:32:38,965 --> 00:32:39,965
Yeah, yeah. Yes.

860
00:32:39,965 --> 00:32:40,465
Yeah.

861
00:32:51,225 --> 00:32:53,245
The Kalimba on a Get a Stout. Yeah.

862
00:32:53,935 --> 00:32:55,085
There you go. There you go.

863
00:32:55,505 --> 00:32:57,565
Oh, so good. Um, I just love sampling so much.

864
00:32:57,745 --> 00:32:59,125
And, you know, you said something that I wanted

865
00:32:59,125 --> 00:33:00,205
to call out real quick.

866
00:33:00,825 --> 00:33:03,605
Um, I love that people are finding these songs

867
00:33:03,605 --> 00:33:06,325
that are not typical of the rest

868
00:33:06,345 --> 00:33:08,205
of the jazz artist's catalog.

869
00:33:08,395 --> 00:33:12,725
Yeah. Um, I like the fact that they as much respect

870
00:33:12,725 --> 00:33:15,365
as I have for those artists who take something

871
00:33:15,385 --> 00:33:17,725
that's obscure, but they're taking the first couple

872
00:33:17,725 --> 00:33:19,645
of seconds of the song.

873
00:33:20,385 --> 00:33:23,445
Um, there's another song that, uh, I wanted to talk about,

874
00:33:23,655 --> 00:33:25,525
which is, uh, Ahmed Jamal's.

875
00:33:25,805 --> 00:33:27,045
I love music. This is a,

876
00:33:27,075 --> 00:33:30,285
this is a nine minute epic, you know, Opus,

877
00:33:30,385 --> 00:33:32,325
That's all what we call a typical jazz track.

878
00:33:32,865 --> 00:33:37,205
No, but this is, but this is kind of a, it's free

879
00:33:37,205 --> 00:33:38,125
TikTok. It's Free TikTok.

880
00:33:38,275 --> 00:33:40,685
This is kind of a weird Ahmad Jamal album.

881
00:33:40,955 --> 00:33:43,605
Awakening Awakening is the name of the album. It's amazing.

882
00:33:43,625 --> 00:33:45,005
But it is very, it's not live at the

883
00:33:45,005 --> 00:33:46,125
Persh is almost the equivalent.

884
00:33:46,125 --> 00:33:48,405
It's not po Sienna of like the Heath Brothers that record,

885
00:33:48,425 --> 00:33:49,485
as opposed to the, it's almost the

886
00:33:49,485 --> 00:33:50,605
same kind of thing. It's true.

887
00:33:51,025 --> 00:33:52,925
But if you could, if you indulge me,

888
00:33:53,055 --> 00:33:55,045
could you play like the first seven seconds

889
00:33:55,145 --> 00:33:56,845
of the very beginning of this song?

890
00:33:56,845 --> 00:33:57,925
Because I want people to know

891
00:33:57,925 --> 00:33:59,725
that this song starts off one place

892
00:34:00,265 --> 00:34:02,965
and you have to go like five or six minutes into the song

893
00:34:02,965 --> 00:34:04,845
before you ever get to the part that,

894
00:34:05,185 --> 00:34:06,565
uh, that we're gonna talk about.

895
00:34:06,565 --> 00:34:08,525
Could we just hear like the first seven seconds of the song?

896
00:34:08,925 --> 00:34:09,405
Absolutely. Yeah.

897
00:34:24,485 --> 00:34:26,445
I mean, this makes me want to like, be

898
00:34:27,145 --> 00:34:29,085
in my mansion throwing a glass

899
00:34:29,085 --> 00:34:30,565
of wine at a painting of my father.

900
00:34:30,835 --> 00:34:34,045
It's definitely so specific, Nalo,

901
00:34:34,585 --> 00:34:36,045
Was it good enough for you, dad?

902
00:34:36,395 --> 00:34:37,485
Like, that's what I wanna be

903
00:34:37,485 --> 00:34:38,485
Doing. It's definitely, it's

904
00:34:38,485 --> 00:34:38,885
the beginning

905
00:34:38,885 --> 00:34:40,205
of the film before the credits.

906
00:34:40,205 --> 00:34:41,405
And then we find out why he's

907
00:34:41,405 --> 00:34:42,805
so p****d off at his father later.

908
00:34:43,105 --> 00:34:44,325
For sure. 100% The

909
00:34:44,325 --> 00:34:46,765
Money, the money couldn't fill the hole. His

910
00:34:46,765 --> 00:34:47,765
Soul, it never can. That's

911
00:34:47,765 --> 00:34:48,845
it never came.

912
00:34:48,955 --> 00:34:51,525
Well, it can get close though. Let's find that. It

913
00:34:51,525 --> 00:34:52,525
Really is. It really, it

914
00:34:52,525 --> 00:34:54,285
really is just a beautiful, beautiful song.

915
00:34:54,405 --> 00:34:55,725
I, I'm making fun of it right now.

916
00:34:55,745 --> 00:34:58,965
But like this song, like when I listened to the whole song,

917
00:34:59,205 --> 00:35:00,565
I, I never get tired of it.

918
00:35:00,565 --> 00:35:02,405
It's just a gorgeous, gorgeous,

919
00:35:02,565 --> 00:35:04,685
I was on a bike one time in Paris a long time ago,

920
00:35:04,985 --> 00:35:06,325
and I had this in my headphones

921
00:35:06,325 --> 00:35:08,005
and I was just like, life doesn't get any better.

922
00:35:08,005 --> 00:35:10,605
This, this is a beautiful, beautiful song.

923
00:35:10,715 --> 00:35:12,565
Yeah, but let's skip ahead Key Rock.

924
00:35:12,565 --> 00:35:15,445
It gets weird. Oh, it gets very weird. It gets

925
00:35:15,445 --> 00:35:16,605
Weird. Here's a little

926
00:35:16,825 --> 00:35:17,825
Key. Rock finds something

927
00:35:17,825 --> 00:35:18,005

928
00:35:22,625 --> 00:35:23,165
and that's it.

929
00:35:23,165 --> 00:35:26,085
That's all you used. It doesn't repeat. It's, it's not Lou.

930
00:35:26,275 --> 00:35:28,765
It's like there's nothing there. It's that little section.

931
00:35:29,145 --> 00:35:32,085
One more time here. This

932
00:35:37,905 --> 00:35:38,685
Here's another No,

933
00:35:42,975 --> 00:35:43,685
again, from the Old

934
00:35:44,025 --> 00:35:45,645
Attics, The World is yours.

935
00:35:53,255 --> 00:35:56,325
Great use. I Mean, like, just to take just that tight,

936
00:35:56,325 --> 00:35:58,045
it's like when Dab Punk, uh, when you see

937
00:35:58,045 --> 00:35:59,765
how they put together a song like one more time.

938
00:35:59,795 --> 00:36:02,485
Like they, they took just these tiniest little

939
00:36:02,485 --> 00:36:04,445
pieces of nothing.

940
00:36:05,145 --> 00:36:07,485
And just, that's what makes sampling an art form.

941
00:36:07,485 --> 00:36:10,805
Because really it's such a small part that they technically,

942
00:36:10,965 --> 00:36:12,525
I always say they didn't have to sample it.

943
00:36:12,525 --> 00:36:14,205
Like they could've just played it.

944
00:36:14,405 --> 00:36:16,445
Probably nobody would've ever drawn a connection. Mm.

945
00:36:16,665 --> 00:36:19,605
But that's sort of what makes it an art is that No,

946
00:36:19,705 --> 00:36:22,325
I'm literally, uh, Blake famously, you know,

947
00:36:22,945 --> 00:36:25,485
put together grooves in the Heart by Delight

948
00:36:25,485 --> 00:36:27,485
and showed us how that song is entirely

949
00:36:27,485 --> 00:36:29,125
as not one musician was brought into the

950
00:36:29,125 --> 00:36:30,725
studio to make that song happen.

951
00:36:30,835 --> 00:36:33,445
It's all layered samples on samples.

952
00:36:33,945 --> 00:36:37,565
And I think that Pete Rock's taking this tiny little piece

953
00:36:37,565 --> 00:36:39,845
that's the genius of, of great sampling is that he took

954
00:36:39,845 --> 00:36:41,205
that tiny little piece and built

955
00:36:41,205 --> 00:36:42,445
something magical off of it.

956
00:36:42,705 --> 00:36:44,365
Yes, absolutely. Um,

957
00:36:44,505 --> 00:36:46,125
And most importantly, this was recorded

958
00:36:46,125 --> 00:36:47,165
and came out in 1970,

959
00:36:47,475 --> 00:36:49,645
same year I was recorded and came out into

960
00:36:49,645 --> 00:36:50,645
The world. Very. You go. Very

961
00:36:50,645 --> 00:36:51,085
important.

962
00:36:51,225 --> 00:36:53,325
And actually Caleb, uh, could you,

963
00:36:53,325 --> 00:36:54,565
if you could throw up the album cover

964
00:36:54,585 --> 00:36:56,285
for this Amma Jamal the Awakening album.

965
00:36:56,555 --> 00:36:59,605
It's a beautiful Yeah. Album cover for that era. Yes. Yeah.

966
00:36:59,965 --> 00:37:02,165
Absolutely. Gorgeous. Here's another example of, uh,

967
00:37:02,485 --> 00:37:04,925
I think this is Pete Rock too, on bus rhyme.

968
00:37:05,435 --> 00:37:07,005
Tell you what the Too,

969
00:37:07,025 --> 00:37:09,805
Listen to the wind so I could hear the earth begin a

970
00:37:10,045 --> 00:37:12,365
universe speak round a celebration of my birthday.

971
00:37:12,635 --> 00:37:14,805
That being said, we can stop pretending in our mental,

972
00:37:14,875 --> 00:37:17,725
like all the s**t we witnessed be happening coincidental.

973
00:37:17,985 --> 00:37:20,485
See, back in 98 when I dropped the first extinction level,

974
00:37:20,645 --> 00:37:23,245
I was fighting in the demons with personal scores to settle.

975
00:37:23,435 --> 00:37:24,925
They put it in a movie. 'cause they

976
00:37:24,925 --> 00:37:26,005
knew that we ain't really know.

977
00:37:26,255 --> 00:37:27,365
Funny honey, they trying

978
00:37:27,365 --> 00:37:30,085
to tell us 22 years ago deeply impacted

979
00:37:30,145 --> 00:37:31,605
how watching the flick really move

980
00:37:31,605 --> 00:37:32,725
me as the world was ending.

981
00:37:32,795 --> 00:37:34,805
Mark Freeman was p the movie show.

982
00:37:35,015 --> 00:37:37,165
Let's fast forward the 2009,

983
00:37:37,185 --> 00:37:40,045
the 2012 movie left an impression on the minds

984
00:37:40,045 --> 00:37:42,325
of the people, making sure we remember if we slightly

985
00:37:42,325 --> 00:37:43,685
doubted that the world was ending

986
00:37:43,745 --> 00:37:45,925
and we can't really do s**t about it. Damn.

987
00:37:46,345 --> 00:37:47,685
So can this is what now,

988
00:37:47,945 --> 00:37:49,405
By the way, what you're doing, what you're doing

989
00:37:49,405 --> 00:37:50,605
live in the studio right there.

990
00:37:51,665 --> 00:37:53,885
I'm all for it. This is, it sounds fantastic.

991
00:37:53,885 --> 00:37:54,885
Well, I Just want That's, that's

992
00:37:54,885 --> 00:37:55,725
an interpolation what he's

993
00:37:55,725 --> 00:37:56,725
Now this is definitely an interation.

994
00:37:57,265 --> 00:37:58,285
No, but this is what I,

995
00:37:58,405 --> 00:38:00,965
I just wanna give just some shout outs to jazz musicians for

996
00:38:00,965 --> 00:38:01,925
what they bring to this party,

997
00:38:01,925 --> 00:38:03,165
because we, we, that's what this whole

998
00:38:03,165 --> 00:38:04,165
Episode's About. That's what I'm

999
00:38:04,165 --> 00:38:04,965
saying, man. But this

1000
00:38:04,965 --> 00:38:06,085
is what Amad Jamal brings.

1001
00:38:06,195 --> 00:38:08,525
It's like this beautiful, yeah.

1002
00:38:09,595 --> 00:38:11,725
This beautiful C minor nine voicing. Right.

1003
00:38:11,825 --> 00:38:13,245
And I think he's using this, this sort

1004
00:38:13,245 --> 00:38:14,365
of block chord structure where you

1005
00:38:14,365 --> 00:38:15,525
have the octaves on the outside

1006
00:38:16,225 --> 00:38:17,445
And going up a minor third.

1007
00:38:17,445 --> 00:38:18,445
Right.

1008
00:38:18,725 --> 00:38:21,005
I think it's, is it like a augmented

1009
00:38:21,255 --> 00:38:24,725
thing, right?

1010
00:38:24,725 --> 00:38:26,245
Yeah. Does that seem right? Like it's a, or,

1011
00:38:26,245 --> 00:38:28,365
or like a b minor major seven kind of thing? Yeah.

1012
00:38:28,825 --> 00:38:30,085
We just lost all our listeners. I know.

1013
00:38:30,225 --> 00:38:31,245
As soon as you said the name of that

1014
00:38:31,245 --> 00:38:32,085
Chord, I just wanted just

1015
00:38:32,085 --> 00:38:33,045
shout out that because it's like,

1016
00:38:33,045 --> 00:38:34,165
No, no, that's, we do that all the time.

1017
00:38:34,555 --> 00:38:36,325
This, this, I can't speak those terms.

1018
00:38:36,325 --> 00:38:37,925
Luxxury can speak all of that. Oh.

1019
00:38:37,925 --> 00:38:39,925
And I couldn't find those chords like that, that was

1020
00:38:39,925 --> 00:38:43,805
beyond my chromatic, you know, level my spiciness. Uh, uh

1021
00:38:44,025 --> 00:38:46,045
But that's the kind thing that, that I think

1022
00:38:46,045 --> 00:38:47,645
as jazz musicians, when we hear hip,

1023
00:38:47,675 --> 00:38:49,805
when we hear jazz samples in hip hop, we're like, yes.

1024
00:38:49,805 --> 00:38:51,245
Like, that might not happen

1025
00:38:51,595 --> 00:38:54,405
with just the producer playing piano chords.

1026
00:38:54,475 --> 00:38:57,125
It's like having this genius Ahmad Jamal, who's so

1027
00:38:57,705 --> 00:39:00,245
not only comes up with these incredibly creative harmonic

1028
00:39:00,245 --> 00:39:02,765
devices, but the way he plays 'em too is like

1029
00:39:02,935 --> 00:39:04,245
world class pianist.

1030
00:39:04,635 --> 00:39:05,645
It's really, I think,

1031
00:39:05,645 --> 00:39:07,205
brings a special thing to these things.

1032
00:39:07,485 --> 00:39:09,005
I mean, I, I know the original recording too,

1033
00:39:09,005 --> 00:39:10,205
just the way it sounds and everything,

1034
00:39:10,265 --> 00:39:13,525
but the actual, what he's playing is super special.

1035
00:39:13,755 --> 00:39:17,165
Yeah, for sure. And so cool that it gets to be like,

1036
00:39:17,165 --> 00:39:19,085
amplified out and for, I mean, there's, you know,

1037
00:39:19,085 --> 00:39:20,525
the counter argument to this is like, oh,

1038
00:39:20,525 --> 00:39:21,645
they're only taking a little, you should

1039
00:39:21,645 --> 00:39:22,765
listen to the whole nine minutes.

1040
00:39:23,065 --> 00:39:24,565
And if you know you're on a, a,

1041
00:39:24,685 --> 00:39:26,285
a bike in Paris, and you can do that, that's great.

1042
00:39:26,585 --> 00:39:28,565
But it's also like, this sends people back

1043
00:39:28,675 --> 00:39:29,805
down the rabbit hole.

1044
00:39:29,805 --> 00:39:30,805
It's like, what is that sound?

1045
00:39:31,065 --> 00:39:33,245
Or they make that connection when they hear the original

1046
00:39:33,245 --> 00:39:34,325
or they hear Po Ciena

1047
00:39:34,325 --> 00:39:35,885
or something. We're like, wait, that's that

1048
00:39:35,985 --> 00:39:38,685
And, and no to, I love that point.

1049
00:39:38,685 --> 00:39:41,485
And I, and I even point out that if, if we went back

1050
00:39:41,485 --> 00:39:44,325
and played the little section that Pete Rock sampled,

1051
00:39:44,595 --> 00:39:46,085
it's not like he looped it

1052
00:39:46,105 --> 00:39:47,605
and you can just, you know,

1053
00:39:47,605 --> 00:39:49,805
put it in a Serato DJ app and loop it.

1054
00:39:49,805 --> 00:39:52,165
No. Like he, he he cut it up. Yeah.

1055
00:39:52,165 --> 00:39:54,445
So like, he did take a little snippet here,

1056
00:39:54,525 --> 00:39:56,205
a little snippet here, reverse it,

1057
00:39:56,345 --> 00:39:58,685
and then he put like an extra note right here so

1058
00:39:58,685 --> 00:40:00,565
that it would all line up to be four four.

1059
00:40:00,635 --> 00:40:02,525
Yeah. But it's, uh, yeah.

1060
00:40:02,585 --> 00:40:05,085
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a little hot take

1061
00:40:05,085 --> 00:40:09,445
here and say that there's a through line to what jazz,

1062
00:40:09,445 --> 00:40:11,325
especially like coming out of the bebop era.

1063
00:40:11,425 --> 00:40:13,445
And who was that, that were just, were famously?

1064
00:40:13,665 --> 00:40:17,685
Oh, uh, Roy Hargrove said, you know, hip hop is the grandson

1065
00:40:17,705 --> 00:40:19,685
and the granddaughter of bebop.

1066
00:40:19,685 --> 00:40:21,445
Like, that's the direct line in there.

1067
00:40:21,985 --> 00:40:25,125
And, um, it's, but like, as jazz musicians, like,

1068
00:40:25,295 --> 00:40:28,245
we're constantly taking little phrase, little parts.

1069
00:40:28,275 --> 00:40:31,485
When we improvise a solo, that's exactly what we're doing.

1070
00:40:31,485 --> 00:40:33,885
Like when you're sampling, it's not just like the most

1071
00:40:33,885 --> 00:40:34,925
unimaginative players.

1072
00:40:35,065 --> 00:40:35,965
And these people don't get

1073
00:40:35,965 --> 00:40:37,125
gigs and we don't even talk to them.

1074
00:40:37,125 --> 00:40:39,365
They're beneath us, but they're learning a Charlie Parker

1075
00:40:39,395 --> 00:40:41,565
solo on a blues and then get up and just play that solo.

1076
00:40:41,565 --> 00:40:43,805
Nobody wants to hear that. Not 'cause it's not a good solo,

1077
00:40:44,265 --> 00:40:46,885
but you can go hear Charlie Park on a record, you know,

1078
00:40:47,185 --> 00:40:48,285
now you take part of,

1079
00:40:48,345 --> 00:40:50,405
and no one even wants to hear you play the exact phrase

1080
00:40:50,405 --> 00:40:52,925
and then your phrase, it's like using your musical taste

1081
00:40:52,925 --> 00:40:54,045
and taking little bits of that.

1082
00:40:54,105 --> 00:40:56,725
You know, I mean, miles Davis was the master of that.

1083
00:40:56,795 --> 00:40:59,205
Like, he was basically sampling Clifford Brown

1084
00:40:59,205 --> 00:41:00,605
and Fats Navarro and Lewis Armstrong,

1085
00:41:00,605 --> 00:41:02,485
all these trumpet players, little phrases.

1086
00:41:02,485 --> 00:41:04,405
And everyone was like, oh, he's a gen. And he was a genius.

1087
00:41:04,865 --> 00:41:06,685
But it ended up that he played on a trumpet

1088
00:41:06,685 --> 00:41:08,405
that hadn't been played before. That For sure.

1089
00:41:09,035 --> 00:41:11,405
Yeah. Part of this storytelling, it's, it's linked

1090
00:41:11,465 --> 00:41:14,285
to DJ culture, which we talk about all the time, is another

1091
00:41:14,915 --> 00:41:17,845
undersung musicality tradition is DJing.

1092
00:41:17,845 --> 00:41:19,405
Mm-hmm. Like you, so there are, there are people

1093
00:41:19,585 --> 00:41:22,645
of certain caliber of, you know, maybe snobbishness

1094
00:41:22,705 --> 00:41:24,965
or gatekeeping ness that would say, well do things not,

1095
00:41:25,025 --> 00:41:26,285
you don't know an instrument, whatever.

1096
00:41:26,315 --> 00:41:27,645
Like, and same with sampling,

1097
00:41:28,105 --> 00:41:30,365
but in fact, really what music is intended

1098
00:41:30,425 --> 00:41:33,245
for is communication and, and, and storytelling.

1099
00:41:33,395 --> 00:41:35,205
Yeah. And a lineage, a tradition.

1100
00:41:35,225 --> 00:41:38,325
And when you're calling attention to things that you like,

1101
00:41:38,325 --> 00:41:39,605
things that came before you, things

1102
00:41:39,605 --> 00:41:41,085
that you think other people should seek out.

1103
00:41:41,085 --> 00:41:44,005
Yeah. Little references, little homages, interpolations

1104
00:41:44,005 --> 00:41:46,405
and sampling are just part of that larger tradition

1105
00:41:46,545 --> 00:41:49,565
of musical borrowing, of using what music came

1106
00:41:49,565 --> 00:41:52,485
before to tell the story you are telling now

1107
00:41:52,865 --> 00:41:54,885
in your individual way. I love it.

1108
00:41:55,355 --> 00:41:56,445
There's something, hold

1109
00:41:56,445 --> 00:41:57,445
On. I'm, I'm,

1110
00:41:57,445 --> 00:41:58,445
I'm borrowing that term.

1111
00:41:58,445 --> 00:42:00,525
Musical borrowing. I'm gonna interpret.

1112
00:42:01,245 --> 00:42:03,005
I love that. Something, something is sticking out to me

1113
00:42:03,005 --> 00:42:04,805
with this sample with Bus Rhymes specifically.

1114
00:42:04,805 --> 00:42:05,805
We don't have to keep this in the show,

1115
00:42:05,825 --> 00:42:07,805
but what's the Busta Rhyme song

1116
00:42:07,805 --> 00:42:10,765
that uses the Bernard Herman sample from Psycho?

1117
00:42:10,905 --> 00:42:12,125
The Oh, the string

1118
00:42:12,125 --> 00:42:15,965
thing. Great one.

1119
00:42:16,195 --> 00:42:18,525
Yeah. Um, It's very similar harmonically to

1120
00:42:18,525 --> 00:42:19,565
what Amad Jamal's playing here.

1121
00:42:19,805 --> 00:42:22,565
It's like almost exactly like this Minor nine to the,

1122
00:42:22,625 --> 00:42:24,205
to the augmented a half step below.

1123
00:42:24,235 --> 00:42:25,285
It's like a similar thing

1124
00:42:25,285 --> 00:42:27,205
that Bernard Herman uses in Right. Phrase

1125
00:42:27,985 --> 00:42:29,205
One of those Hitchcock movies or

1126
00:42:29,205 --> 00:42:30,205
Something. I don't know if that's interesting here.

1127
00:42:30,205 --> 00:42:30,485
It's,

1128
00:42:30,795 --> 00:42:32,085
It's, uh, yeah, no, I think

1129
00:42:32,085 --> 00:42:33,245
that's really, it's like, gimme some more,

1130
00:42:33,455 --> 00:42:34,455
Gimme some more. That's it. Gimme

1131
00:42:34,455 --> 00:42:35,685
some more Incredible.

1132
00:42:36,425 --> 00:42:37,725
But The Strings, it's a similar

1133
00:42:37,835 --> 00:42:39,085
vibe, which I think is interesting.

1134
00:42:39,195 --> 00:42:41,645
Like, I think Busta Rhymes just sounds good over these like

1135
00:42:41,645 --> 00:42:42,965
cinematic, I'm gonna throw my scotch

1136
00:42:42,965 --> 00:42:44,645
into the fireplace kind of vibes. Yeah.

1137
00:42:45,475 --> 00:42:49,925
Hell yeah. Uh, okay, let's, uh, next one up is,

1138
00:42:49,995 --> 00:42:51,685
this was really interesting actually.

1139
00:42:51,925 --> 00:42:53,085
D this is another one of yours.

1140
00:42:53,085 --> 00:42:57,165
This is, um, young Holt Unlimited.

1141
00:42:57,915 --> 00:42:58,725
Unlimited. Right.

1142
00:43:08,425 --> 00:43:09,485
That's pretty much it.

1143
00:43:09,485 --> 00:43:10,845
That's pretty much the sample People

1144
00:43:10,945 --> 00:43:13,205
use strangers in the night.

1145
00:43:13,425 --> 00:43:14,725
It goes into a more traditional,

1146
00:43:14,915 --> 00:43:15,915
Yeah.

1147
00:43:39,465 --> 00:43:40,755
Alright. Welcome Lee

1148
00:43:42,215 --> 00:43:43,715
to the Lambert Airport Holiday Inn.

1149
00:43:45,855 --> 00:43:47,195
Are we playing at the Wiki Wiki room?

1150
00:43:47,865 --> 00:43:49,515
Welcome to the Howard Johnson. Yeah,

1151
00:43:49,515 --> 00:43:50,395
Exactly. Yeah. Howard Johnson.

1152
00:43:50,645 --> 00:43:52,395
Let's hear that, that, that intro one more time.

1153
00:43:52,715 --> 00:43:54,475
Teaching torch time. Yep.

1154
00:43:58,505 --> 00:44:01,715
Very cool. Little bell there. Yeah.

1155
00:44:02,275 --> 00:44:04,395
Triangle. There's is a triangle

1156
00:44:08,375 --> 00:44:09,375
We could have never known.

1157
00:44:09,655 --> 00:44:12,155
So this was sampled never known into Return

1158
00:44:12,155 --> 00:44:13,755
of the Crook Dodgers, um,

1159
00:44:14,255 --> 00:44:16,115
by a group called Crook Dodgers 95.

1160
00:44:16,115 --> 00:44:17,675
But this was from a soundtrack to a film

1161
00:44:19,045 --> 00:44:21,995
Known, never Taken Brooklyn.

1162
00:44:26,915 --> 00:44:30,115
Brooklyn. We did it like that. And now we do it like this.

1163
00:44:30,415 --> 00:44:32,725
We did it like that. And now we do it like this.

1164
00:44:35,915 --> 00:44:40,765
Yeah. Now clock Kids who got the cocaine,

1165
00:44:40,895 --> 00:44:43,045
don't tell me it's the little kids are culture.

1166
00:44:43,545 --> 00:44:45,525
The metaphor sent from my brain, from my jaw,

1167
00:44:45,665 --> 00:44:46,725
it comes from other places.

1168
00:44:47,065 --> 00:44:49,525
Not the tinted phrase. Journalistic values are yellow.

1169
00:44:49,585 --> 00:44:52,085
And then of I,

1170
00:44:52,105 --> 00:44:53,105
Man, I think it's a bell.

1171
00:44:53,485 --> 00:44:54,405
I think it's a, it's a bell

1172
00:44:54,465 --> 00:44:55,645
or one of those, one of those things.

1173
00:44:56,505 --> 00:44:58,085
So question here, um,

1174
00:44:58,305 --> 00:45:00,085
and Blake, maybe this kind of hearkens back

1175
00:45:00,085 --> 00:45:03,085
to some things you were talking about, about copyright.

1176
00:45:03,305 --> 00:45:05,805
So Strangers in the Night do the songwriters from

1177
00:45:05,805 --> 00:45:07,005
this gets some of that sample.

1178
00:45:07,285 --> 00:45:08,285
'cause there's none of the melody

1179
00:45:08,465 --> 00:45:10,285
and whoever the Tin Pan, I don't know who wrote this.

1180
00:45:10,285 --> 00:45:11,485
Oh yeah. Strangers In the Night.

1181
00:45:11,665 --> 00:45:14,005
I'm, it's this, this,

1182
00:45:14,035 --> 00:45:15,685
this has been happening a lot to me recently.

1183
00:45:15,965 --> 00:45:17,965
I am finishing a book about musical borrowing

1184
00:45:17,985 --> 00:45:21,205
and it is a taxonomy of all the manifestations of it.

1185
00:45:21,385 --> 00:45:23,165
So there's a interpolation chapter

1186
00:45:23,305 --> 00:45:24,965
and a sampling and a covers.

1187
00:45:25,505 --> 00:45:28,165
And it's funny 'cause it keeps happening today.

1188
00:45:28,265 --> 00:45:31,445
I'm writing about John Coltrane today after this and

1189
00:45:31,445 --> 00:45:34,805
before this I'm writing about, um, my favorite things.

1190
00:45:35,265 --> 00:45:38,085
I'm writing about the phenomenon of jazz covers.

1191
00:45:38,665 --> 00:45:40,405
And of course you mentioned bebop before.

1192
00:45:40,405 --> 00:45:42,725
Part of the bebop tradition comes out of the recognition

1193
00:45:42,725 --> 00:45:44,325
that when you do that, you lose all your money.

1194
00:45:44,515 --> 00:45:48,125
Yeah. So let's like flip this one on its head change,

1195
00:45:48,465 --> 00:45:50,765
not use the melody in the head or the solo Right.

1196
00:45:50,765 --> 00:45:52,245
Contra facts and call it something new. Yeah.

1197
00:45:52,245 --> 00:45:53,405
Counteract Exactly. Right.

1198
00:45:53,435 --> 00:45:55,005
There's a whole contra fact chapter.

1199
00:45:55,585 --> 00:45:58,165
Um, but the short answer is yeah, the composers

1200
00:45:58,265 --> 00:46:00,485
of Strangers in the Night, which I, I'll look up right now,

1201
00:46:00,745 --> 00:46:03,125
but it's certainly not the, the trio of,

1202
00:46:03,265 --> 00:46:05,005
of Young Holt and such.

1203
00:46:05,035 --> 00:46:08,885
It's by Bur Bert Campford, Charles Singleton,

1204
00:46:08,905 --> 00:46:09,965
and Eddie Snyder would be,

1205
00:46:09,965 --> 00:46:11,685
Those guys were definitely hanging out on,

1206
00:46:11,745 --> 00:46:12,805
on Tin Pan Alley.

1207
00:46:12,985 --> 00:46:14,085
You know, those dudes were,

1208
00:46:15,805 --> 00:46:17,685
I mean, that's where the money goes

1209
00:46:18,105 --> 00:46:21,125
for on the compositional publishing side for the original.

1210
00:46:21,625 --> 00:46:23,885
And if it's cleared properly, which we have

1211
00:46:23,885 --> 00:46:26,565
to assume at a certain point it was, um,

1212
00:46:26,795 --> 00:46:28,005
they would be getting all of

1213
00:46:28,005 --> 00:46:29,685
that publishing money as well. Man. I think

1214
00:46:29,685 --> 00:46:32,325
It's the Unal t not the drummer fact,

1215
00:46:32,465 --> 00:46:34,525
not the bass player, not the, not the Bell player.

1216
00:46:35,875 --> 00:46:37,525
It's apparently Frank Sinatra's most

1217
00:46:38,205 --> 00:46:40,285
commercially successful album of all time Wow.

1218
00:46:40,665 --> 00:46:44,325
Is the, is the one that produced this one in 1966. So yeah.

1219
00:46:44,325 --> 00:46:46,885
Those, those estates are probably still just making all

1220
00:46:46,885 --> 00:46:47,925
kinds of crazy money off.

1221
00:46:48,065 --> 00:46:50,685
But the crazy part is in terms of like what they sampled,

1222
00:46:50,915 --> 00:46:52,005
there's none Melody,

1223
00:46:52,005 --> 00:46:54,685
there's not even any, it hasn't gotten any.

1224
00:46:54,685 --> 00:46:57,565
It's disconnected. This is, this brings us to my second,

1225
00:46:57,945 --> 00:46:59,765
uh, term I'm introducing in the book,

1226
00:46:59,765 --> 00:47:01,445
but I'm throwing out there on our own podcast.

1227
00:47:01,625 --> 00:47:03,005
In your podcast and just

1228
00:47:03,005 --> 00:47:05,085
because it's fun to test these words out, but

1229
00:47:05,085 --> 00:47:06,885
before I mentioned Sample Phantom,

1230
00:47:07,145 --> 00:47:09,005
you hear the bass player, but he didn't get paid.

1231
00:47:09,015 --> 00:47:11,925
Right. The opposite of that is who does get paid?

1232
00:47:12,025 --> 00:47:14,165
I'm calling that a credit ghost. Yeah, yeah. Right.

1233
00:47:14,225 --> 00:47:16,725
And in this case, the three dudes I just named Yeah.

1234
00:47:17,235 --> 00:47:19,565
From the Strangers in the Night Original. Right.

1235
00:47:19,565 --> 00:47:20,565
Who wrote that melody

1236
00:47:20,745 --> 00:47:23,605
and that lyric, once that got transformed

1237
00:47:24,025 --> 00:47:28,165
by Young Holt Unlimited in 1966 into this jazz odyssey.

1238
00:47:28,185 --> 00:47:31,405
Yep. It still gets baked into the part that was sampled,

1239
00:47:31,435 --> 00:47:34,205
even though that melody and that lyric isn't in there. So

1240
00:47:34,205 --> 00:47:35,485
Even the Lyricists, they're still getting paid.

1241
00:47:35,595 --> 00:47:36,765
Even the lyricists, even the

1242
00:47:36,885 --> 00:47:38,365
Lyricists, even though it's instrumental,

1243
00:47:38,385 --> 00:47:40,285
that's the same thing that's happening on the Coltrane,

1244
00:47:40,285 --> 00:47:41,405
in the Coltrane situation.

1245
00:47:41,405 --> 00:47:45,365
Right. Um, you know, Richard Rogers, Rogers and Hart. Right.

1246
00:47:45,365 --> 00:47:48,085
Rogers and Har And it's instrumental. Yeah.

1247
00:47:48,085 --> 00:47:49,565
So there's no lyrics to speak of.

1248
00:47:50,025 --> 00:47:51,565
Um, so it's a crazy,

1249
00:47:51,715 --> 00:47:54,205
another disconnect in how copyright works.

1250
00:47:54,275 --> 00:47:56,605
Yeah. Is that all the way down the line all these years

1251
00:47:56,605 --> 00:47:59,285
later because of not anticipating the future

1252
00:47:59,345 --> 00:48:01,405
and then not changing things when the future came?

1253
00:48:01,425 --> 00:48:03,925
Yep. We have these strange disconnects between

1254
00:48:03,925 --> 00:48:05,765
what you're hearing, who wrote it,

1255
00:48:05,945 --> 00:48:07,525
who got paid, which part was used.

1256
00:48:08,215 --> 00:48:09,645
Crazy. Oh, I'm so glad you're talking about this

1257
00:48:09,645 --> 00:48:11,005
and I'm so glad you're writing a book about it

1258
00:48:11,005 --> 00:48:12,925
because it is something that we've all just,

1259
00:48:13,125 --> 00:48:14,965
I think our whole careers have

1260
00:48:14,965 --> 00:48:16,085
just said, well, this is how it is.

1261
00:48:16,155 --> 00:48:18,205
Yeah. And this is the rules that we have to play by.

1262
00:48:18,205 --> 00:48:20,085
But you're right, it's, it's archaic the way

1263
00:48:20,085 --> 00:48:21,245
that we're approaching all of this,

1264
00:48:21,245 --> 00:48:22,685
and it doesn't make sense in the current way

1265
00:48:22,685 --> 00:48:24,085
that people make music. Right.

1266
00:48:24,705 --> 00:48:25,845
We have to change it and,

1267
00:48:25,945 --> 00:48:28,445
and just like literally, there's, um, Sona,

1268
00:48:28,445 --> 00:48:30,525
which is the Songwriters Association of North America.

1269
00:48:30,625 --> 00:48:32,365
I'm not sure if you guys are members worth

1270
00:48:32,685 --> 00:48:33,765
checking it out and perhaps joining.

1271
00:48:33,915 --> 00:48:37,845
It's technically impossible. Songwriters can't have a union.

1272
00:48:38,035 --> 00:48:39,485
It's against the law. Great. That's great.

1273
00:48:39,545 --> 00:48:41,405
So there are musicians unions,

1274
00:48:41,405 --> 00:48:43,565
there's instrumentalist unions, there's, you know,

1275
00:48:43,785 --> 00:48:44,885
studio musicians,

1276
00:48:45,025 --> 00:48:49,645
but songwriters that profession is for reasons historically,

1277
00:48:49,645 --> 00:48:52,125
there, there isn't anything where power can be.

1278
00:48:52,665 --> 00:48:55,445
We can unite and have power to negotiate, basically.

1279
00:48:55,445 --> 00:48:58,885
Right, right. So this is a group that is trying to

1280
00:49:00,265 --> 00:49:02,885
act, empower songwriters essentially.

1281
00:49:03,505 --> 00:49:05,325
And it is a stated goal.

1282
00:49:05,885 --> 00:49:07,965
I I'm saying this because I just got off the phone with,

1283
00:49:07,985 --> 00:49:09,085
if you don't know his podcast,

1284
00:49:09,195 --> 00:49:10,805
Ross Golan has a great show called,

1285
00:49:11,105 --> 00:49:12,845
and the writer is, and he's giving the keynote.

1286
00:49:13,545 --> 00:49:15,365
And he and I just had a really long conversation

1287
00:49:15,365 --> 00:49:18,805
where it's like, we need to like advocate for, we need

1288
00:49:18,805 --> 00:49:20,525
to start advocating for change, basically.

1289
00:49:20,525 --> 00:49:22,965
Yeah. We're all tired of these stupid roles.

1290
00:49:23,075 --> 00:49:24,245
It's just the way it is. Hey,

1291
00:49:24,245 --> 00:49:25,405
you got your 50 bucks on the date.

1292
00:49:25,405 --> 00:49:27,445
Totally. Yeah. Sorry, you died broke. Sorry.

1293
00:49:27,445 --> 00:49:28,565
You couldn't pay your medical bills.

1294
00:49:28,565 --> 00:49:31,685
No, the number of drummer biographies on Wikipedia who we,

1295
00:49:31,685 --> 00:49:34,525
who got sampled that I read and then they died at 41.

1296
00:49:34,595 --> 00:49:35,605
Like, come on. Right.

1297
00:49:35,945 --> 00:49:37,245
You know, let's get these guys paid,

1298
00:49:37,245 --> 00:49:38,685
let's get them health insurance.

1299
00:49:38,865 --> 00:49:40,645
Um, anyway, all this that, that's,

1300
00:49:40,845 --> 00:49:42,285
I said I'd get off my soapbox. No, no.

1301
00:49:42,795 --> 00:49:43,845
Stay On. Stay on.

1302
00:49:44,025 --> 00:49:46,445
And actually, I just remember the, the Aris,

1303
00:49:46,945 --> 00:49:48,925
um, Lou Donaldson thing.

1304
00:49:48,985 --> 00:49:51,645
Lou Donaldson Blue note, shout out Bruce Luva,

1305
00:49:51,705 --> 00:49:53,285
who was the president and,

1306
00:49:53,385 --> 00:49:55,285
and the head of Blue Note records for a long time.

1307
00:49:55,415 --> 00:49:58,325
Great guy. Um, but I remember,

1308
00:49:58,385 --> 00:50:00,045
and I don't wanna speak too much outta term,

1309
00:50:00,045 --> 00:50:02,165
but I know that this, some form of this happened.

1310
00:50:02,435 --> 00:50:06,725
Like they actually got Aris funneled a lot of

1311
00:50:06,725 --> 00:50:08,845
that sample royalty as it came in.

1312
00:50:09,065 --> 00:50:11,685
And Blue Note of course, really worked hard at that.

1313
00:50:11,685 --> 00:50:13,405
And Lou Donaldson authorized that too.

1314
00:50:14,025 --> 00:50:15,645
So that was the rare occasion, not

1315
00:50:15,645 --> 00:50:16,765
because they had to. That's wonderful.

1316
00:50:17,225 --> 00:50:18,925
I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. Yeah. So was that on the,

1317
00:50:18,925 --> 00:50:21,285
that was on the Masters side, like as opposed

1318
00:50:21,285 --> 00:50:22,925
to the publishing side maybe? Yeah, I think

1319
00:50:22,925 --> 00:50:23,645
So. That's great. I

1320
00:50:23,645 --> 00:50:24,565
Think so. That's an option.

1321
00:50:24,595 --> 00:50:26,885
Yeah. But Lou Donaldson was one of the funniest guys ever.

1322
00:50:26,965 --> 00:50:28,925
Jack, he used to always make jokes about, you know,

1323
00:50:28,925 --> 00:50:31,645
like hip hop beba, he had a real high voice, you know?

1324
00:50:31,665 --> 00:50:34,165
And he'd be like, I don't know what, I never respected that

1325
00:50:34,165 --> 00:50:35,405
until I started getting him checks.

1326
00:50:35,425 --> 00:50:36,565
And then I respected, you know,

1327
00:50:36,585 --> 00:50:38,845
he had a whole stick that he did about that,

1328
00:50:38,865 --> 00:50:39,865
You know. But luckily, to your

1329
00:50:39,865 --> 00:50:40,565
point, if,

1330
00:50:40,585 --> 00:50:43,645
if musicians are reliant on the benevolence of record labels

1331
00:50:43,865 --> 00:50:45,285
to, you know, make their living,

1332
00:50:45,465 --> 00:50:46,765
we did that ever work out, it's never gonna happen.

1333
00:50:46,945 --> 00:50:48,485
You know, it's good that Buno did that,

1334
00:50:48,545 --> 00:50:50,485
but it's not a, it's not something to build a career on.

1335
00:50:50,585 --> 00:50:53,045
Now. Um, let's move it along here.

1336
00:50:53,345 --> 00:50:55,765
Uh, Dali, you threw this in, sort of, uh,

1337
00:50:55,995 --> 00:50:58,165
here in the last bit before we started,

1338
00:50:58,305 --> 00:51:00,685
but I really enjoyed this idea.

1339
00:51:00,825 --> 00:51:02,485
So we mentioned Bob James at the start.

1340
00:51:02,715 --> 00:51:06,205
Most sampled musician. Yeah. Jazz musician in history

1341
00:51:06,205 --> 00:51:07,765
According to, um, I don't know, chat,

1342
00:51:07,925 --> 00:51:08,925
GPT or something. Okay, good.

1343
00:51:08,925 --> 00:51:11,765
Peter. Good. So Diallo,

1344
00:51:11,765 --> 00:51:13,125
you brought up Westchester lady.

1345
00:51:16,035 --> 00:51:19,325
Come on, Bob James three.

1346
00:51:19,795 --> 00:51:23,365
Yeah. Looks a lot like a Pink Floyd album cover.

1347
00:51:35,905 --> 00:51:37,325
So what is it about this? Where is this,

1348
00:51:37,535 --> 00:51:38,725
where else can we find this?

1349
00:51:40,835 --> 00:51:44,455
Well, let me just say real quick. Um, yes.

1350
00:51:44,615 --> 00:51:47,375
I think that Bob James is like one of my favorites.

1351
00:51:47,375 --> 00:51:49,095
Anytime you put on a Bob James record,

1352
00:51:49,275 --> 00:51:52,295
you always hear just a, an avalanche of,

1353
00:51:52,555 --> 00:51:54,935
of sampled parts from other songs,

1354
00:51:54,935 --> 00:51:56,215
and you're just like, oh, I know that.

1355
00:51:56,275 --> 00:51:57,495
Oh, I know that one. I know that one.

1356
00:51:57,795 --> 00:52:01,335
And I, I did admittedly, um, this is not a flex,

1357
00:52:01,355 --> 00:52:06,175
but I, on the way, uh, here, uh, to my laptop desk, um,

1358
00:52:06,895 --> 00:52:08,335
I, I, I texted Patrice Russian,

1359
00:52:08,505 --> 00:52:09,815
who's been on our show. Yes.

1360
00:52:09,925 --> 00:52:10,855
Drop that name there. I

1361
00:52:10,855 --> 00:52:11,775
asked her, you might look on the floor.

1362
00:52:12,165 --> 00:52:13,495
Yeah, I did. And I, I did ask her.

1363
00:52:13,535 --> 00:52:16,175
I was like, Hey, you know, Bob James, like, you know,

1364
00:52:16,175 --> 00:52:17,695
my father was really into bebop.

1365
00:52:17,695 --> 00:52:20,015
My dad was really a bebop guy.

1366
00:52:20,235 --> 00:52:22,335
And, um, and I remember, like,

1367
00:52:22,375 --> 00:52:25,575
I feel like he did not dig the Bob James sound, you know,

1368
00:52:25,575 --> 00:52:27,135
like, to him that was like, sort

1369
00:52:27,135 --> 00:52:28,895
of like easy listening jazz or something like

1370
00:52:28,895 --> 00:52:29,455
That. Jazz, smooth jazz.

1371
00:52:29,805 --> 00:52:32,655
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I did ask her, um, I did text

1372
00:52:32,655 --> 00:52:33,895
and ask her like, Hey, what did,

1373
00:52:34,005 --> 00:52:36,895
what did like the black jazz musicians of that time, like,

1374
00:52:37,015 --> 00:52:40,335
what did the, what did the George Bensons and the Roy Ayers,

1375
00:52:40,475 --> 00:52:42,775
and what did, what did the, what was their impression

1376
00:52:43,035 --> 00:52:44,095
of of Bob?

1377
00:52:44,195 --> 00:52:46,215
Did they think he was cool? Did they think he was like,

1378
00:52:46,485 --> 00:52:47,775
easy listening and corny?

1379
00:52:47,775 --> 00:52:49,775
Like, what was the, um, what was the take?

1380
00:52:49,835 --> 00:52:51,935
And I, and I did not know at the time, uh,

1381
00:52:52,005 --> 00:52:53,015
that you guys had played

1382
00:52:53,015 --> 00:52:54,695
with all the illustrious people you played with.

1383
00:52:54,845 --> 00:52:57,375
Have you ever heard that about Bob's reputation?

1384
00:52:57,405 --> 00:52:59,095
Like, is, is Bob, like, was,

1385
00:52:59,275 --> 00:53:01,055
was Bob at the time considered corny,

1386
00:53:01,055 --> 00:53:02,495
or was he always thought of as like, Bob, wait,

1387
00:53:02,495 --> 00:53:03,495
What did Patrice say? I'm dying to

1388
00:53:03,495 --> 00:53:04,655
know. How did she respond to that? Yeah,

1389
00:53:04,655 --> 00:53:05,735
Yeah. Totally wanna know it.

1390
00:53:06,515 --> 00:53:07,895
She, she, she has not written back yet.

1391
00:53:09,735 --> 00:53:11,535
Honestly. I've heard nothing but love from Bob James.

1392
00:53:11,645 --> 00:53:13,095
Yeah. First of all, in every circle, Bob

1393
00:53:13,095 --> 00:53:16,095
James is one of the nicest, most humble Oh, cool.

1394
00:53:16,575 --> 00:53:17,695
Sweetest guys ever.

1395
00:53:18,035 --> 00:53:19,815
And, you know, I met him when I was actually a teenager.

1396
00:53:19,875 --> 00:53:21,215
He was super nice to me,

1397
00:53:21,215 --> 00:53:23,335
and even kind of re seemed like he pretended

1398
00:53:23,335 --> 00:53:24,855
to remember me the next time I saw him.

1399
00:53:24,855 --> 00:53:26,925
And so I'm a little bit clouded judgment,

1400
00:53:26,985 --> 00:53:29,085
but I think like the people you're talking about, Roy Ayers,

1401
00:53:29,505 --> 00:53:32,285
um, like really like, sort of gr uh, Grover Washington Jr.

1402
00:53:32,765 --> 00:53:34,005
I think that Donald, Donald Bird.

1403
00:53:34,025 --> 00:53:36,325
Donald Bird, I think they all really liked him

1404
00:53:36,825 --> 00:53:39,165
and was, yeah, I don't think there was like a corny, like,

1405
00:53:39,445 --> 00:53:42,925
I think that there was the more hardcore jazzers that

1406
00:53:42,925 --> 00:53:44,485
as they got into the seventies, were like,

1407
00:53:44,485 --> 00:53:47,485
y'all stole our music and we can't get any gigs because,

1408
00:53:47,865 --> 00:53:49,605
and it was really pr I was joking smooth.

1409
00:53:49,625 --> 00:53:51,565
Ja. I don't think that term was even happening

1410
00:53:51,585 --> 00:53:52,805
yet then, like in the seventies.

1411
00:53:52,805 --> 00:53:55,405
No, definitely not. But I think like whatever fusion

1412
00:53:55,625 --> 00:53:58,605
and groovy jazz, you know, Wayne Shorter, Joe Zal,

1413
00:53:59,195 --> 00:54:01,765
that whole Jocko pesto, I mean like jazz,

1414
00:54:01,955 --> 00:54:03,925
jazz adjacent, whatever was happening to them.

1415
00:54:04,155 --> 00:54:06,005
Like Bob James was right in the middle of that,

1416
00:54:06,025 --> 00:54:07,325
and he was, I mean, was, I love that.

1417
00:54:07,325 --> 00:54:09,005
I love that. Yeah. But I mean, I think

1418
00:54:09,005 --> 00:54:11,125
that there was always like a, and Herbie, I know him

1419
00:54:11,125 --> 00:54:13,205
and Herbie have always been tight and s**t.

1420
00:54:13,205 --> 00:54:15,565
Korea. Yeah. I think that there's always this backlash

1421
00:54:15,825 --> 00:54:18,245
to any of the successful jazz.

1422
00:54:18,305 --> 00:54:20,325
And look, most of the times they, they're pianists

1423
00:54:20,325 --> 00:54:22,525
or keyboarders that sell out and go Hollywood.

1424
00:54:22,605 --> 00:54:24,125
I mean, this came against Herbie for sure.

1425
00:54:24,625 --> 00:54:26,485
Um, once you have a hit once, I mean, you know,

1426
00:54:26,585 --> 00:54:28,245
Bob James wrote the theme to Mash.

1427
00:54:28,265 --> 00:54:29,565
He did a bunch of TV stuff.

1428
00:54:29,745 --> 00:54:31,565
No, he didn't. He wrote the theme to Taxi.

1429
00:54:31,835 --> 00:54:33,845
Taxi. That too. Who wrote Mash? Actually, there you

1430
00:54:33,845 --> 00:54:34,845
Go. Mash is good too. The

1431
00:54:34,845 --> 00:54:36,205
suicide is painless. No, that's

1432
00:54:36,205 --> 00:54:36,925
Bob James. Man.

1433
00:54:36,995 --> 00:54:38,285
It's not Bob James. Come on.

1434
00:54:38,285 --> 00:54:41,045
That's Bob James. Okay. Okay. Anyway, TBD no

1435
00:54:41,045 --> 00:54:42,045
One would put it in the comments.

1436
00:54:42,335 --> 00:54:43,605
Don't have to worry about Johnny

1437
00:54:43,605 --> 00:54:44,605
Mandell. Oh,

1438
00:54:44,605 --> 00:54:47,285
Johnny Mandell, who was the Bob James of

1439
00:54:47,825 --> 00:54:48,825
Period. That's a great spin

1440
00:54:48,825 --> 00:54:49,325
on that.

1441
00:54:50,025 --> 00:54:52,205
Bob James, by the way, he put out a, I had

1442
00:54:52,205 --> 00:54:54,045
to just check this, but he put out a killing

1443
00:54:54,115 --> 00:54:56,325
Tiny Desk last year. Yes. Like he's still

1444
00:54:57,105 --> 00:54:58,005
Bob James. Oh, I'm,

1445
00:54:58,545 --> 00:54:59,805
He sounds great. I love

1446
00:54:59,805 --> 00:55:00,805
That. Yeah. And he's,

1447
00:55:00,805 --> 00:55:02,485
I I love it. Listen. Yeah,

1448
00:55:02,505 --> 00:55:03,505
Go ahead. No, no. I was just gonna

1449
00:55:03,505 --> 00:55:04,005
say also,

1450
00:55:04,035 --> 00:55:06,525
he's always had a little bit of a sideline career.

1451
00:55:06,685 --> 00:55:09,005
I mean, Billy Kelson, uh, who's a good friend

1452
00:55:09,005 --> 00:55:10,125
for many years, I mean, I played

1453
00:55:10,125 --> 00:55:11,645
with him since the early nineties, has, has kind

1454
00:55:11,645 --> 00:55:13,445
of always been his go-to guy.

1455
00:55:13,445 --> 00:55:15,045
When he wants to do a jazz trio,

1456
00:55:15,045 --> 00:55:16,365
he'll go do a little tour in Europe,

1457
00:55:16,435 --> 00:55:17,565
like just playing straight ahead.

1458
00:55:17,585 --> 00:55:20,485
So he's got the chops and the lineage coming from that.

1459
00:55:20,505 --> 00:55:22,845
But I mean, I think that whatever, especially

1460
00:55:22,865 --> 00:55:25,085
by the late eighties getting into the nineties,

1461
00:55:25,085 --> 00:55:26,165
once he had foreplay,

1462
00:55:26,585 --> 00:55:29,365
and it probably got into a smoother kind of situation.

1463
00:55:29,485 --> 00:55:31,645
I think that was, he definitely got caught up a little bit

1464
00:55:31,705 --> 00:55:34,885
in that, that smooth, you know, Lee Riau or that whole,

1465
00:55:35,265 --> 00:55:37,085
and when Win Marsalis was kind of come along

1466
00:55:37,085 --> 00:55:38,445
and be like, everything needs to be

1467
00:55:38,845 --> 00:55:39,845
Acoustic. But I think the jazz

1468
00:55:39,845 --> 00:55:41,245
puritanism of

1469
00:55:41,245 --> 00:55:43,005
that mid nineties has eroded.

1470
00:55:43,025 --> 00:55:45,925
And I think everybody's sort of embracing the smoothness

1471
00:55:46,105 --> 00:55:47,885
of the era that we're discussing here

1472
00:55:47,885 --> 00:55:49,165
with Bob James at this point for sure.

1473
00:55:49,165 --> 00:55:51,245
In jazz history. Because it's, I mean, all the kids are,

1474
00:55:51,245 --> 00:55:52,285
that's what the kids sound like.

1475
00:55:52,355 --> 00:55:54,045
Yeah. You know what what I'm saying? Uh,

1476
00:55:54,265 --> 00:55:55,925
And I love, like, hip hop didn't give a s**t.

1477
00:55:55,925 --> 00:55:57,005
They're just like, I like that. Yeah.

1478
00:55:57,035 --> 00:55:58,285
It's like, what can I do with this?

1479
00:55:59,865 --> 00:56:02,085
Bob James has a lot, has a lot of hip hop to thank

1480
00:56:02,145 --> 00:56:05,445
for his resurgence and his career being this long.

1481
00:56:05,515 --> 00:56:08,805
Like absolutely. He may have flamed up much earlier. Yeah.

1482
00:56:08,825 --> 00:56:12,045
Had it not been for his music being rediscovered and re

1483
00:56:12,105 --> 00:56:15,605
and put in some seminal recordings to the point where,

1484
00:56:15,785 --> 00:56:16,805
at the Mardi Gras,

1485
00:56:16,805 --> 00:56:18,405
or sorry, take me to the Mardi Gras, right?

1486
00:56:18,405 --> 00:56:21,125
Uhhuh ding ding d ding. That is the sound of hip hop.

1487
00:56:21,275 --> 00:56:24,645
Just that ba boom, either just the fill, if you use

1488
00:56:24,715 --> 00:56:27,325
that now, or we did an episode on, uh,

1489
00:56:27,385 --> 00:56:29,125
on Missy Elliot, uh, work it, right?

1490
00:56:29,125 --> 00:56:31,805
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Which famously the very end of, it's kind

1491
00:56:31,805 --> 00:56:35,765
of a coda, you hear, interestingly, an embedded sample

1492
00:56:35,945 --> 00:56:37,045
of, take Me to the Mardi Gras.

1493
00:56:37,165 --> 00:56:40,325
'cause it's the run DM mc sample of it. Right.

1494
00:56:40,325 --> 00:56:42,085
They didn't have to do that. They could have gone straight

1495
00:56:42,085 --> 00:56:44,645
to the source, but it kind of gave it the,

1496
00:56:44,645 --> 00:56:47,045
the song was intended to be a throwback kind

1497
00:56:47,045 --> 00:56:49,405
of old school og hip hop love letter.

1498
00:56:49,515 --> 00:56:52,885
Yeah. Right. So in that usage, there's reverence

1499
00:56:52,945 --> 00:56:54,405
to the history of hip hop.

1500
00:56:54,405 --> 00:56:57,245
Mm-hmm. Which includes this Bob James sample,

1501
00:56:57,335 --> 00:57:00,005
which incidentally is a cover of a Paul Simon.

1502
00:57:00,105 --> 00:57:02,285
That's right. So Bob James didn't get, Sam doesn't get any

1503
00:57:02,285 --> 00:57:03,445
Help. Paul Simon's making Bank

1504
00:57:03,795 --> 00:57:04,605
Bank. That's right. Yeah.

1505
00:57:05,145 --> 00:57:07,045
Uh, finally, finally, Paul Simon,

1506
00:57:07,605 --> 00:57:08,525
Probably Paul's getting some recognition.

1507
00:57:08,525 --> 00:57:09,405
Some money. Yeah.

1508
00:57:09,405 --> 00:57:11,445
Finally, Hey, watch this. Watch this watch.

1509
00:57:11,445 --> 00:57:12,965
We tie it into what Blake just said,

1510
00:57:12,965 --> 00:57:16,285
because Blake said the Missy sampled the Peter, uh, Piper.

1511
00:57:16,285 --> 00:57:19,405
Peter Piper, right. Run DMC version, not technically the,

1512
00:57:19,405 --> 00:57:20,405
the Bob James version.

1513
00:57:20,665 --> 00:57:23,885
And similarly here, uh, pink Panthers is an artist

1514
00:57:23,905 --> 00:57:25,085
who I am a big fan of.

1515
00:57:25,205 --> 00:57:27,605
I think she's very exciting, uh, to speak of

1516
00:57:27,715 --> 00:57:28,765
what the kids are into.

1517
00:57:29,125 --> 00:57:32,245
I really like her music. So there's a line you can draw from

1518
00:57:32,245 --> 00:57:35,845
Westchester Lady, which we just heard, uh, to a

1519
00:57:36,555 --> 00:57:39,605
seminal drum and bass track that was huge in England,

1520
00:57:39,905 --> 00:57:41,045
uh, called Circles.

1521
00:57:41,465 --> 00:57:43,365
Uh, and this is by an artist named Adam F.

1522
00:57:43,625 --> 00:57:45,805
Can we hear a little bit of that samples, Bob James,

1523
00:57:48,185 --> 00:57:49,185
Up to the ninth?

1524
00:57:55,035 --> 00:57:58,365
Here we go. You might skip it ahead just a little bit

1525
00:57:58,365 --> 00:57:59,525
so we can hear a little bit more

1526
00:57:59,525 --> 00:58:00,685
of the west side just a little bit.

1527
00:58:06,125 --> 00:58:10,805
I had a queue up in mine. Oh, sorry. Here we go.

1528
00:58:10,805 --> 00:58:12,885
Is that the, uh, what's, what's the

1529
00:58:12,885 --> 00:58:13,405
Queue number? I don't have,

1530
00:58:13,745 --> 00:58:15,405
Go to the 40, go to the 43 second

1531
00:58:15,405 --> 00:58:16,485
mark, if you can find that.

1532
00:58:16,965 --> 00:58:17,965
There you go.

1533
00:58:23,965 --> 00:58:26,645
I love That. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick,

1534
00:58:26,755 --> 00:58:30,925
Tick, tick, tick, tick. So

1535
00:58:31,075 --> 00:58:33,365
This song was like huge in the uk,

1536
00:58:33,985 --> 00:58:36,845
and Pink Panthers has sort of made it a point to sample,

1537
00:58:37,305 --> 00:58:41,165
you know, artists like Underworld and, uh, basement Jacks

1538
00:58:41,185 --> 00:58:44,525
and some of these, you know, like sort of two thousands, um,

1539
00:58:45,115 --> 00:58:46,445
British electronic artists,

1540
00:58:46,445 --> 00:58:47,445
because that's when she was young.

1541
00:58:47,445 --> 00:58:48,685
That's great. Mm-hmm. You know, that's the music

1542
00:58:48,685 --> 00:58:49,725
that she was growing up with.

1543
00:58:49,785 --> 00:58:53,605
Mm-hmm. And so then she takes this Adam F Circle song,

1544
00:58:53,605 --> 00:58:55,245
which sampled the Westchester Lady,

1545
00:58:55,465 --> 00:58:57,165
and then she turns in a song

1546
00:58:57,165 --> 00:58:58,445
that I love called Break It Off.

1547
00:59:06,225 --> 00:59:07,485
And you'll, you'll hear what she does

1548
00:59:07,485 --> 00:59:08,925
with it. I just added some vocal.

1549
00:59:09,545 --> 00:59:11,045
No, we'll, have saw me cry

1550
00:59:11,695 --> 00:59:13,805
until I left the party the other night.

1551
00:59:14,105 --> 00:59:17,565
Do you remember all the things that you said me that came,

1552
00:59:25,885 --> 00:59:27,285
I can't tell you how happy this makes me.

1553
00:59:27,345 --> 00:59:30,165
So my 15-year-old daughter, who really is at the stage

1554
00:59:30,165 --> 00:59:32,165
where she turns up her nose to anything I like,

1555
00:59:32,995 --> 00:59:36,045
just asked me to take her to a Pink Pans concert.

1556
00:59:36,145 --> 00:59:38,125
Her and her friend, and knowing,

1557
00:59:38,385 --> 00:59:40,725
and I don't, I don't really know Pink Pans yet,

1558
00:59:40,985 --> 00:59:42,205
but knowing that there's, it's a,

1559
00:59:42,315 --> 00:59:44,005
Some she's checking out. It's, she's great

1560
00:59:44,125 --> 00:59:45,125
Checking out. There's some Bob

1561
00:59:45,125 --> 00:59:45,485
James,

1562
00:59:45,485 --> 00:59:47,365
there's some baseball Jacks going on.

1563
00:59:47,495 --> 00:59:49,485
Makes me very, very happy for my daughter that she can

1564
00:59:49,485 --> 00:59:50,485
See. Listen, listen. I, her

1565
00:59:50,485 --> 00:59:52,885
new album is called Fancy That, um,

1566
00:59:52,885 --> 00:59:54,565
there's a song on it called Illegal,

1567
00:59:54,565 --> 00:59:56,005
which blew up on TikTok.

1568
00:59:56,105 --> 00:59:58,605
If you hear it, you might recognize it.

1569
00:59:58,645 --> 01:00:01,005
I, I find that even my friends who aren't like, you know,

1570
01:00:01,005 --> 01:00:03,885
buried in music, new music nowadays will be like, oh yeah,

1571
01:00:03,885 --> 01:00:05,645
I've heard that song sort of around Fancy.

1572
01:00:05,645 --> 01:00:07,125
That is the name of the album. I,

1573
01:00:07,245 --> 01:00:09,605
I hit up my friend Junior Sanchez, who's worked with,

1574
01:00:09,605 --> 01:00:10,765
uh, basement Jacks in the past.

1575
01:00:11,085 --> 01:00:13,525
I was like, guys, there are like no less than four basement

1576
01:00:13,535 --> 01:00:15,445
Jacks samples on this album.

1577
01:00:15,825 --> 01:00:16,925
And that's not even counting,

1578
01:00:16,925 --> 01:00:18,685
like when she samples like MJ Cole

1579
01:00:18,905 --> 01:00:20,765
and some of these other UK garage artists,

1580
01:00:21,025 --> 01:00:22,045
but she's, you know,

1581
01:00:22,045 --> 01:00:24,565
we're 20 years past the early two thousands, sadly.

1582
01:00:24,905 --> 01:00:27,845
And so now that generation that grew up on that music Yeah.

1583
01:00:28,065 --> 01:00:30,405
Uh, is resampling the first the first generation

1584
01:00:30,405 --> 01:00:31,805
of Coachella artists, I think you call it.

1585
01:00:32,065 --> 01:00:34,565
Um, and she does this so well, I, I, I,

1586
01:00:34,625 --> 01:00:36,565
I'm forgetting the name of the her co-producer,

1587
01:00:36,905 --> 01:00:39,205
but I think that, I think Pink Panthers is doing it really

1588
01:00:39,205 --> 01:00:40,565
well, and for those who want

1589
01:00:40,565 --> 01:00:43,365
to hear some new music at a very fast clip,

1590
01:00:43,665 --> 01:00:45,085
but like really fun music

1591
01:00:45,435 --> 01:00:47,605
that sounds like it's got some life in it.

1592
01:00:47,705 --> 01:00:49,245
Uh, fancy. That is the name of Harrell.

1593
01:00:49,325 --> 01:00:50,485
I, and I'm just laughing because like,

1594
01:00:50,485 --> 01:00:51,485
here's another opportunity.

1595
01:00:51,705 --> 01:00:53,725
It really is like the last 30 days.

1596
01:00:53,765 --> 01:00:55,405
And then I turn the manuscript in and it's,

1597
01:00:55,965 --> 01:00:56,965
That's Right. So now it's

1598
01:00:56,965 --> 01:00:58,725
my chance to sort of test the waters

1599
01:00:58,725 --> 01:01:01,645
with a couple of concepts that I'm not sure are gonna fly.

1600
01:01:01,945 --> 01:01:04,925
So here it is, I'm calling that musical Dro.

1601
01:01:04,955 --> 01:01:07,285
Chronol, excuse me. F**k. I f****d it up already.

1602
01:01:07,525 --> 01:01:09,525
Musical dro chronology.

1603
01:01:09,705 --> 01:01:12,525
In other words, it's like the tree rings, right? Yeah.

1604
01:01:12,665 --> 01:01:15,525
You take a slice and inside of any song,

1605
01:01:15,525 --> 01:01:17,005
of any musical moment, you're going

1606
01:01:17,005 --> 01:01:18,485
to find something connected

1607
01:01:18,485 --> 01:01:20,325
to the previous thing built on the previous thing

1608
01:01:20,375 --> 01:01:21,605
built on the previous thing.

1609
01:01:21,865 --> 01:01:24,925
And what's so cool now for hip hop fans is we're kind of,

1610
01:01:24,925 --> 01:01:27,845
at least at the third level, this is sort of the third era.

1611
01:01:27,845 --> 01:01:30,565
Mm-hmm. There was the original, the og then there were,

1612
01:01:30,565 --> 01:01:32,325
they started to sample some of the samples.

1613
01:01:32,745 --> 01:01:34,525
Now we're starting to get some samples

1614
01:01:34,625 --> 01:01:35,965
and references to the samples.

1615
01:01:36,105 --> 01:01:38,485
Mm. Which themselves came from the

1616
01:01:38,485 --> 01:01:39,605
jazz, you know, the original sources.

1617
01:01:39,715 --> 01:01:41,085
Yeah. And that's awesome to me

1618
01:01:41,085 --> 01:01:43,005
because this is just the literalization

1619
01:01:43,005 --> 01:01:44,765
because it's recordings of something

1620
01:01:44,765 --> 01:01:47,125
that was already happened in all of the other music.

1621
01:01:47,275 --> 01:01:49,245
Yeah. With interpolations and references.

1622
01:01:49,705 --> 01:01:50,765
The history of music is,

1623
01:01:50,765 --> 01:01:52,965
this has already been happening, but it's not a recording.

1624
01:01:52,965 --> 01:01:55,165
So you can kind of hide it, or it can be more subtle,

1625
01:01:55,265 --> 01:01:58,245
or it can be, you know, modified or altered slightly.

1626
01:01:58,245 --> 01:01:59,845
Yeah. But in recording we have this,

1627
01:01:59,935 --> 01:02:01,165
we're living in a cool moment

1628
01:02:01,165 --> 01:02:02,525
where we're having this new layer

1629
01:02:02,585 --> 01:02:03,965
that's starting to emerge. It's,

1630
01:02:04,225 --> 01:02:05,605
One could almost say the whole history

1631
01:02:05,745 --> 01:02:09,765
of pop music was interpolation until soft

1632
01:02:09,765 --> 01:02:10,765
This came along. That's right. Like,

1633
01:02:10,765 --> 01:02:12,085
like sort of softer, like folded in.

1634
01:02:12,085 --> 01:02:14,205
Right. So it was not as noticeable. Right.

1635
01:02:14,425 --> 01:02:15,645
Not as obvious. Yeah. Yeah.

1636
01:02:15,645 --> 01:02:18,485
And I mean, in jazz, because jazz just happened and,

1637
01:02:18,545 --> 01:02:22,405
or maybe because of sort of the beginnings of jazz, a

1638
01:02:22,465 --> 01:02:24,525
as we know it were right when recording

1639
01:02:24,655 --> 01:02:25,925
technology was happening.

1640
01:02:25,925 --> 01:02:27,885
You're talking about the twenties. Yes. A little bit before

1641
01:02:27,945 --> 01:02:28,945
We can track the whole thing. Mm-hmm.

1642
01:02:28,945 --> 01:02:30,165
Yeah, exactly. The whole thing.

1643
01:02:30,185 --> 01:02:32,405
And there's more of those circles in that tree,

1644
01:02:32,405 --> 01:02:34,525
but they're still always coming, coming back around.

1645
01:02:35,345 --> 01:02:39,005
Um, and, and now with the hip hop, well, not now, I mean

1646
01:02:39,005 --> 01:02:40,005
for 30 years now

1647
01:02:40,005 --> 01:02:42,965
or whatever more, uh, with the hip hop sampling

1648
01:02:43,145 --> 01:02:46,885
of this jazz, these jazz tracks, like that's

1649
01:02:47,515 --> 01:02:50,845
disrupted the jazz triage, I would say, in a beautiful way.

1650
01:02:50,945 --> 01:02:52,725
You know what I mean? And has brought, I mean,

1651
01:02:52,725 --> 01:02:55,605
as Bob James on doing a tiny desk at age 86

1652
01:02:55,625 --> 01:02:58,325
or whatever last year, had he not been sampled all over the

1653
01:02:58,325 --> 01:03:00,365
place, he's still the same composer and player.

1654
01:03:00,425 --> 01:03:01,565
But, you know, like Right. You know.

1655
01:03:02,265 --> 01:03:03,405
But it's funny you said that.

1656
01:03:03,525 --> 01:03:05,165
'cause I was just talking to a friend of mine who's a

1657
01:03:05,325 --> 01:03:08,405
producer about The Grain, basically like the sound

1658
01:03:08,425 --> 01:03:09,605
of earlier recordings.

1659
01:03:09,655 --> 01:03:12,925
Right. Which we can track eras with our ears based on,

1660
01:03:13,145 --> 01:03:15,325
we can kind of tell when something was made basically.

1661
01:03:15,325 --> 01:03:17,045
Yeah. From 1925

1662
01:03:17,765 --> 01:03:20,445
whenever thirties, like the earliest cylinders and whatever.

1663
01:03:20,445 --> 01:03:22,005
Yeah. Her majesty's voice mm-hmm.

1664
01:03:22,145 --> 01:03:25,365
Up until kind of the nineties, it starts to fall off.

1665
01:03:25,395 --> 01:03:27,365
It's, it's clean enough pro tools people,

1666
01:03:27,365 --> 01:03:30,405
it's digital enough that anything from the mid nineties till

1667
01:03:30,465 --> 01:03:34,045
now, you can kind of fake another era.

1668
01:03:34,665 --> 01:03:38,205
You can either fake another era or you can pick

1669
01:03:38,205 --> 01:03:40,045
and choose from other eras.

1670
01:03:40,045 --> 01:03:42,885
Yeah. What you want your song to evoke. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

1671
01:03:42,985 --> 01:03:46,245
But for jazz music, I was just thinking about this, like,

1672
01:03:46,435 --> 01:03:50,005
it's harder for me to want to listen to Jazz post Fusion

1673
01:03:50,155 --> 01:03:51,645
because I like the grain.

1674
01:03:51,665 --> 01:03:53,445
Mm-hmm. I like the, I like the fifties

1675
01:03:53,595 --> 01:03:54,605
jazz sounding like this.

1676
01:03:54,865 --> 01:03:57,045
And then the Bossanova sixties sounds a little like this.

1677
01:03:57,075 --> 01:03:59,165
Yeah. And it's like some of the constraints

1678
01:03:59,165 --> 01:04:01,445
of the technology and some of the instrument choices.

1679
01:04:01,545 --> 01:04:03,485
Yes. I like that you can map what you're hearing

1680
01:04:03,485 --> 01:04:05,245
to when it was and maybe even where it was.

1681
01:04:05,245 --> 01:04:07,125
Right. Yeah. And you can't really do that

1682
01:04:07,125 --> 01:04:08,845
with modern jazz anymore 'cause it's too clean.

1683
01:04:09,015 --> 01:04:12,885
Right. And I'm just so used to jazz having that older sound,

1684
01:04:12,885 --> 01:04:14,885
that era connected sound. Yeah. I mean,

1685
01:04:14,885 --> 01:04:16,925
For me, I would even flip that to, to rock

1686
01:04:16,925 --> 01:04:18,525
and roll, like I love mm-hmm.

1687
01:04:18,925 --> 01:04:21,125
Seventies rock and roll specifically.

1688
01:04:21,585 --> 01:04:23,445
And I think it's because of the sound of the kick drum.

1689
01:04:23,585 --> 01:04:25,245
And I just, yeah. Just don't get that.

1690
01:04:25,715 --> 01:04:27,005
Like the nine, I love the,

1691
01:04:27,045 --> 01:04:28,325
I grew up in the nineties, so I love that.

1692
01:04:28,345 --> 01:04:30,445
But like my heart is really in that seventies.

1693
01:04:30,445 --> 01:04:31,845
But I, I hear what you're saying there is

1694
01:04:31,845 --> 01:04:34,405
that we can hear the, the era that it's drum.

1695
01:04:34,565 --> 01:04:36,765
I mean, we did that, we did Fleetwood Back Rumors a couple

1696
01:04:36,765 --> 01:04:39,285
weeks ago, and I was just like, I forgot how great

1697
01:04:39,285 --> 01:04:40,685
that record and like, the drumming.

1698
01:04:40,685 --> 01:04:42,325
But I, but then when we're like really analyzing the

1699
01:04:42,325 --> 01:04:45,045
drummer, I'm like, actually the drumming is not that great.

1700
01:04:45,425 --> 01:04:47,045
Is this shuffle simple,

1701
01:04:47,305 --> 01:04:49,085
The sound So authentic.

1702
01:04:49,195 --> 01:04:51,245
Yeah. And that base, that kick drum

1703
01:04:51,265 --> 01:04:53,285
and that, that authenticity and connection.

1704
01:04:53,475 --> 01:04:55,885
It's Yeah. Okay. Boomers. Yeah. Okay.

1705
01:04:57,165 --> 01:04:59,645
I I got a fairly Boomer pick here. Sorry, go ahead.

1706
01:05:00,145 --> 01:05:01,885
No, no. I was just gonna say one last thing to connect to

1707
01:05:01,885 --> 01:05:04,245
what you were saying, which is that you're also tapping into

1708
01:05:04,245 --> 01:05:05,245
another element

1709
01:05:05,345 --> 01:05:07,445
of why we like stuff, which is the nostalgia.

1710
01:05:07,445 --> 01:05:09,325
Yeah. Which is the, when we heard it first Sure.

1711
01:05:09,625 --> 01:05:12,005
And when we heard it first, especially if we were 13

1712
01:05:12,025 --> 01:05:16,205
or younger, is gonna evoke so much like stuff

1713
01:05:16,205 --> 01:05:17,390
that you can't put your finger on.

1714
01:05:17,390 --> 01:05:18,965
Yes. 'cause it's vague and you didn't

1715
01:05:18,965 --> 01:05:20,045
know what the world was as much.

1716
01:05:20,045 --> 01:05:21,205
Hundred percent. Yeah. And it's gonna have

1717
01:05:21,205 --> 01:05:22,725
that much more power when you hear it later.

1718
01:05:23,085 --> 01:05:25,445
'cause it's gonna unlock this sort of, you know,

1719
01:05:25,445 --> 01:05:29,325
pristine madeleine of experience that you are going

1720
01:05:29,325 --> 01:05:30,605
to probably explore your whole life.

1721
01:05:30,605 --> 01:05:32,245
Right? Yep. The rest of your life's a little bit like

1722
01:05:32,485 --> 01:05:34,005
figuring out the rest

1723
01:05:34,005 --> 01:05:36,005
of your life's a little bit like figuring out

1724
01:05:36,005 --> 01:05:37,405
what was 13 and earlier.

1725
01:05:37,475 --> 01:05:39,325
Yeah. Yeah. To a degree. Yeah. So

1726
01:05:39,325 --> 01:05:41,085
We peak at 13 in terms of our,

1727
01:05:41,635 --> 01:05:43,845
it's all calling back after that. Pretty much.

1728
01:05:44,355 --> 01:05:46,885
Yeah. Everything's so damn romantic back

1729
01:05:46,885 --> 01:05:47,885
Then. Um,

1730
01:05:47,885 --> 01:05:49,845
speaking of, I was about 13 I think,

1731
01:05:49,845 --> 01:05:51,005
when this next album came out.

1732
01:05:51,005 --> 01:05:54,085
This is Tribe called Quest Electric Electric Relaxation.

1733
01:05:55,185 --> 01:05:55,405
Oh,

1734
01:06:14,085 --> 01:06:16,645
Yourself, yourself.

1735
01:06:17,265 --> 01:06:18,325
Set. Where

1736
01:06:18,325 --> 01:06:20,005
Would we be without Q-Tip?

1737
01:06:20,025 --> 01:06:22,525
Man, we've been talking a lot about Q-Tip label. Yeah.

1738
01:06:22,565 --> 01:06:25,205
I mean, I don't think we knew back in the nineties

1739
01:06:25,225 --> 01:06:26,405
how much he was producing.

1740
01:06:26,405 --> 01:06:28,165
Yeah. You know? Right. I think if you, back then,

1741
01:06:28,165 --> 01:06:29,645
I would've assumed that it was Alicia.

1742
01:06:29,645 --> 01:06:32,405
He Muhammad did all the tribe called Quest stuff. Yep. Yeah.

1743
01:06:32,445 --> 01:06:34,565
I think we did. He needed, did a song for Nas,

1744
01:06:34,565 --> 01:06:35,845
but like there's so much He did.

1745
01:06:35,845 --> 01:06:39,965
Yeah. Uh, he did the original Kirkland Dodgers, uh, for the,

1746
01:06:39,965 --> 01:06:42,205
you know, we just played the return of a little bit earlier.

1747
01:06:42,385 --> 01:06:44,365
He did the original. So he is just, he was

1748
01:06:44,585 --> 01:06:46,125
so much more prolific than we knew. Yeah.

1749
01:06:46,185 --> 01:06:48,405
And I believe, uh, I might be,

1750
01:06:48,965 --> 01:06:50,045
I might be screwing this thing up,

1751
01:06:50,045 --> 01:06:53,005
but I mean, it would, it would map for sure the Q-tip.

1752
01:06:53,165 --> 01:06:54,565
'cause he's right around, I think he was born

1753
01:06:54,565 --> 01:06:55,605
like seventy, seventy one.

1754
01:06:55,605 --> 01:06:57,485
He's right around my age. But I think he was,

1755
01:06:57,605 --> 01:06:59,005
I think he had a parent, maybe his mom

1756
01:06:59,005 --> 01:07:02,045
or something that was listening to a lot of like, kind

1757
01:07:02,045 --> 01:07:03,205
of soul jazz stuff.

1758
01:07:03,345 --> 01:07:05,005
Lot of the blue notes stuff. Yeah. A lot of that.

1759
01:07:05,075 --> 01:07:07,365
Like same kind of thing come up. I think he talked about

1760
01:07:07,365 --> 01:07:08,365
That. Well, that factor right

1761
01:07:08,365 --> 01:07:10,005
into the samples so that the,

1762
01:07:10,025 --> 01:07:12,605
the little, uh, piano, yeah.

1763
01:07:12,715 --> 01:07:14,645
That starts the track is from Ramsey Lewis. Ramsey

1764
01:07:14,645 --> 01:07:17,085
Lewis, the Great Chicago's Finest.

1765
01:07:17,205 --> 01:07:20,485
A track called Dreams. Another very weird atypical.

1766
01:07:20,515 --> 01:07:21,605
Yeah. This is totally atypical.

1767
01:07:23,265 --> 01:07:24,365
Oh, this is that earth wind and

1768
01:07:24,365 --> 01:07:25,525
fire track I was just talking about.

1769
01:07:25,995 --> 01:07:28,045
This is more ese White is on this. Oh wow.

1770
01:07:28,505 --> 01:07:30,325
That's right. Played drums on this, right

1771
01:07:32,895 --> 01:07:33,895
Blake?

1772
01:07:34,525 --> 01:07:36,685
Actually, yeah. I just Looking, he may not be on this

1773
01:07:36,685 --> 01:07:37,925
song, but he was in Ramsey.

1774
01:07:37,945 --> 01:07:40,365
He actually, he had already left my bad by 73.

1775
01:07:40,365 --> 01:07:42,205
He'd already formed Earth Wind and Fire drummer

1776
01:07:42,295 --> 01:07:45,365
Jason Marcellus just made a whole post about Maurice White

1777
01:07:45,485 --> 01:07:46,805
in Ramsey Lewis's band.

1778
01:07:46,805 --> 01:07:48,725
And he was like hanging out with Ellis sound

1779
01:07:48,725 --> 01:07:49,645
Back. I had

1780
01:07:49,645 --> 01:07:50,645
No idea. Uh, so

1781
01:07:50,645 --> 01:07:51,845
that's that piano sound.

1782
01:07:51,845 --> 01:07:52,885
But the, the main chunk

1783
01:07:52,885 --> 01:07:56,285
of the sample here is from Ronnie Foster's Mystic Brew.

1784
01:07:56,835 --> 01:07:57,835
Yeah, Yeah.

1785
01:07:59,505 --> 01:08:00,885
One of the great baselines of all time.

1786
01:08:01,105 --> 01:08:02,885
Yep. Mm-hmm. Totally.

1787
01:08:08,875 --> 01:08:11,005
That is the definition of vibes right there. That's

1788
01:08:11,005 --> 01:08:12,005
Such Good vibes. It's

1789
01:08:12,005 --> 01:08:15,245
vibes and vibes play providing vibes. Literally

1790
01:08:15,415 --> 01:08:16,415
Vibes.

1791
01:08:16,905 --> 01:08:19,725
And then the drums from the tribe, uh, track are from,

1792
01:08:19,885 --> 01:08:22,805
I did not know this, but this is a band called Brethren.

1793
01:08:23,065 --> 01:08:24,685
And this is a track called Outside Love.

1794
01:08:24,835 --> 01:08:26,405
I've never heard of this. It's from 1970,

1795
01:08:26,465 --> 01:08:28,525
but this is absolutely smoking.

1796
01:08:32,365 --> 01:08:33,365
Speaking of kick drums,

1797
01:08:39,265 --> 01:08:40,265
So Meters.

1798
01:08:42,985 --> 01:08:44,565
Who is this? So New Orleans

1799
01:08:46,245 --> 01:08:47,245
Brethren. They're

1800
01:08:47,245 --> 01:08:47,965
from New Orleans. Yeah.

1801
01:08:48,875 --> 01:08:50,965
Well I'm just saying that bead in that vibe, man,

1802
01:08:51,205 --> 01:08:52,325
I was just thinking the meters.

1803
01:08:52,465 --> 01:08:54,965
I'm like this, this man had checked out the meters for sure.

1804
01:08:55,915 --> 01:08:58,085
Yeah. Yeah. And you put it all together back again.

1805
01:08:59,265 --> 01:09:01,845
Ah, man,

1806
01:09:07,515 --> 01:09:07,805
it's

1807
01:09:07,805 --> 01:09:09,005
Such an interesting thing.

1808
01:09:09,245 --> 01:09:12,045
'cause like for me, it would be so much easier to, like,

1809
01:09:12,125 --> 01:09:13,245
I can hear all these different parts,

1810
01:09:13,265 --> 01:09:14,925
how they could fit together to be something dope,

1811
01:09:15,305 --> 01:09:16,925
but I would just be like, let's just all get in the studio

1812
01:09:16,955 --> 01:09:18,645
like, okay, check out this drum part, play this.

1813
01:09:18,645 --> 01:09:21,125
Like, like that's the jazz musician's approach to it.

1814
01:09:21,435 --> 01:09:23,725
Like, it's almost harder.

1815
01:09:24,195 --> 01:09:27,085
Well, I mean, you know what I'm like to take Wasn't

1816
01:09:27,745 --> 01:09:28,925
Is pretty f*****g hard, dude.

1817
01:09:28,925 --> 01:09:31,205
No, no. But I'm saying like, well, it's harder

1818
01:09:31,265 --> 01:09:33,365
to like not make a hit as a jazz musician.

1819
01:09:33,485 --> 01:09:35,805
I see. That's why we're doing nine minute track.

1820
01:09:35,835 --> 01:09:36,845
It's easy to not Make a hit.

1821
01:09:36,845 --> 01:09:38,845
Nine minutes of going nowhere fast, you know?

1822
01:09:39,375 --> 01:09:40,685
Right. You're sort of, you're sort of,

1823
01:09:41,125 --> 01:09:42,645
I think the implicit question sometimes

1824
01:09:42,645 --> 01:09:43,645
that people ask a lot

1825
01:09:43,645 --> 01:09:46,125
of times in our comments is like, why sample?

1826
01:09:46,305 --> 01:09:48,765
Why not just remake it? Why not just be creative?

1827
01:09:48,765 --> 01:09:51,365
Which is sometimes a case, a turn in that direction. Yeah.

1828
01:09:51,425 --> 01:09:53,125
And we wanna like shut that down right away.

1829
01:09:53,165 --> 01:09:54,525
I mean, I think we can all agree

1830
01:09:54,715 --> 01:09:56,085
that this is incredibly creative.

1831
01:09:56,235 --> 01:09:58,845
Exactly. Sampling. And just before, 'cause y'all

1832
01:09:58,845 --> 01:09:59,845
and I are probably both thinking this.

1833
01:10:00,105 --> 01:10:02,045
We did do an entire episode on this song

1834
01:10:02,065 --> 01:10:03,205
of our show One song.

1835
01:10:03,225 --> 01:10:04,765
So go check it out. Yes.

1836
01:10:04,765 --> 01:10:07,645
Because you far into this podcast, you're almost done.

1837
01:10:07,665 --> 01:10:08,685
Go listen to ours after.

1838
01:10:08,945 --> 01:10:12,645
But we broke down and recreated those samples so we Cool.

1839
01:10:12,815 --> 01:10:14,525
Found exactly how they did it.

1840
01:10:14,905 --> 01:10:17,085
And you can sort of listen and, you know, sort of, and

1841
01:10:17,085 --> 01:10:18,285
It's, it's really twisted.

1842
01:10:18,325 --> 01:10:19,645
I mean like it's it the slow motion version

1843
01:10:19,705 --> 01:10:22,445
so much deeper than just even sampling it, the manipulations

1844
01:10:22,445 --> 01:10:25,205
that they had to, to do to Right. To get that, that

1845
01:10:25,205 --> 01:10:27,285
When I, well, this is 1992 technology. Exactly. It's

1846
01:10:27,595 --> 01:10:28,685
Exactly. It's not like

1847
01:10:29,075 --> 01:10:30,765
Ableton and Splice loops.

1848
01:10:30,765 --> 01:10:33,685
Right. So it's Bob Power, who is the engineer on

1849
01:10:33,685 --> 01:10:35,445
that session had was, you know, helpful

1850
01:10:36,105 --> 01:10:37,845
in making happen the vision,

1851
01:10:38,145 --> 01:10:39,645
but just to land the plan on what I just said.

1852
01:10:39,685 --> 01:10:42,885
I think to your question, Peter, about like I,

1853
01:10:42,945 --> 01:10:45,165
or not your question, but like, here's how I would do this.

1854
01:10:45,165 --> 01:10:48,245
Yeah. And as a musician with access to a studio

1855
01:10:48,345 --> 01:10:51,365
and musicians, you might correctly think this is a way

1856
01:10:51,465 --> 01:10:52,805
to get a similar thing done.

1857
01:10:53,365 --> 01:10:56,685
I, my quick thought I just wanted to add, going back to our

1858
01:10:57,295 --> 01:10:58,805
grain conversation mm-hmm.

1859
01:10:58,885 --> 01:11:00,685
Right? Is the sound matters a lot.

1860
01:11:01,185 --> 01:11:02,765
And the specific sound

1861
01:11:02,785 --> 01:11:05,805
of something sampled has meaning to it.

1862
01:11:06,025 --> 01:11:08,525
It has referential meaning it has personal meaning.

1863
01:11:08,525 --> 01:11:11,565
Because in this case, right, we were just talking about how,

1864
01:11:11,985 --> 01:11:15,085
um, Q-Tip it was in his, you know, maybe dad's

1865
01:11:15,085 --> 01:11:16,365
or mom's record collection.

1866
01:11:16,365 --> 01:11:19,325
Yeah. So there's this childhood association of literally how

1867
01:11:19,355 --> 01:11:22,325
that vibe recording sounded of that snippet.

1868
01:11:22,345 --> 01:11:24,685
So I think just sort of part of, to anyone

1869
01:11:25,445 --> 01:11:27,045
probably listening to your show is not in this camp,

1870
01:11:27,265 --> 01:11:30,005
but for anyone who's like, why that's so complicated

1871
01:11:30,105 --> 01:11:32,165
to use samples, why not just play it yourself?

1872
01:11:32,625 --> 01:11:34,605
Um, I, part of the answer lies in

1873
01:11:34,605 --> 01:11:36,845
that the sonic quality is different

1874
01:11:36,945 --> 01:11:38,725
and the meaning is different.

1875
01:11:38,915 --> 01:11:41,605
When you use a sample, you have these other aspects

1876
01:11:41,665 --> 01:11:44,085
beyond just the notes, beyond just playing the parts.

1877
01:11:44,605 --> 01:11:46,085
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's, to me,

1878
01:11:46,085 --> 01:11:48,245
it's like, you know, with visual arts you could have

1879
01:11:48,245 --> 01:11:49,725
different, you know,

1880
01:11:50,485 --> 01:11:52,085
painting your watercolor and your drawing.

1881
01:11:52,085 --> 01:11:53,885
Like these are like different mediums d

1882
01:11:53,885 --> 01:11:55,205
different ways of being creative.

1883
01:11:55,305 --> 01:11:58,205
Mm-hmm. And they each have their, uh, well,

1884
01:11:58,205 --> 01:12:00,045
like we always talk about restricted practices,

1885
01:12:00,045 --> 01:12:01,845
but like constrictions to how you're gonna create.

1886
01:12:01,985 --> 01:12:04,405
And so the the level of creativity you have

1887
01:12:04,405 --> 01:12:06,005
to have when you're taking different samples, you have

1888
01:12:06,005 --> 01:12:07,925
to use your creative mind to think of

1889
01:12:07,925 --> 01:12:10,205
what it can be when combined with something else.

1890
01:12:10,385 --> 01:12:12,845
As opposed like as pianists, we always think, oh,

1891
01:12:12,845 --> 01:12:15,845
we can be the orchestra because we've got the widest range.

1892
01:12:15,895 --> 01:12:17,365
We've got, we can play big chords.

1893
01:12:17,365 --> 01:12:18,965
If you're a trumpet, you can only play one note.

1894
01:12:19,065 --> 01:12:20,805
So you gotta get some other people together, whatever.

1895
01:12:20,805 --> 01:12:23,365
But the reality is, is like when we arrange something

1896
01:12:23,365 --> 01:12:24,845
for an orchestra, you have to use your Right.

1897
01:12:24,845 --> 01:12:26,205
You have to imagine what it could be

1898
01:12:26,305 --> 01:12:28,165
and then have actual other people do that.

1899
01:12:28,225 --> 01:12:30,245
You are thinking about that. You're thinking Tessitura

1900
01:12:30,505 --> 01:12:32,005
and you're thinking of Tamra.

1901
01:12:32,005 --> 01:12:33,365
Yeah. Right. But those, those are,

1902
01:12:33,365 --> 01:12:35,005
those words also apply to sampling.

1903
01:12:35,005 --> 01:12:36,765
Yeah. Those are words from the orchestra

1904
01:12:36,765 --> 01:12:38,125
and from the classical tradition.

1905
01:12:38,125 --> 01:12:40,325
Maybe the jazz tradition. Yeah. But they're important too.

1906
01:12:40,385 --> 01:12:41,965
What's, who is playing, what sound

1907
01:12:41,985 --> 01:12:43,485
and what register at what part?

1908
01:12:43,485 --> 01:12:45,885
Yeah. Is it doubled? Is it tripled? Is it harmonized?

1909
01:12:45,945 --> 01:12:47,365
Is it unison? Is it whatever?

1910
01:12:47,785 --> 01:12:51,765
All of that compositional arrangement stuff is also part

1911
01:12:51,765 --> 01:12:53,365
of the sampling tradition.

1912
01:12:53,365 --> 01:12:54,725
Right. And choices that are made.

1913
01:12:54,915 --> 01:12:57,245
What to sample, how, how to transform it.

1914
01:12:57,665 --> 01:12:58,685
And just one more thing,

1915
01:12:58,685 --> 01:13:00,205
because we were talking about the sample fan,

1916
01:13:00,875 --> 01:13:02,325
it's the sample phantom thing.

1917
01:13:03,125 --> 01:13:06,485
Applying to what you were just saying there on the episode,

1918
01:13:06,485 --> 01:13:07,845
you'll hear us talk about this, but like,

1919
01:13:07,845 --> 01:13:10,445
here's just a really brief, um, kind

1920
01:13:10,445 --> 01:13:12,005
of fun thing to think about.

1921
01:13:12,385 --> 01:13:14,325
Is think about the band playing this song.

1922
01:13:14,795 --> 01:13:18,045
It's drummer Rick Marada from Bren, right? Mm-hmm.

1923
01:13:18,125 --> 01:13:19,885
You're hearing drummer Rick Marada.

1924
01:13:20,305 --> 01:13:24,165
You're hearing Bass Player. I believe it's Gordon Edwards.

1925
01:13:24,195 --> 01:13:25,525
There's also a double bass.

1926
01:13:25,525 --> 01:13:27,325
There's a electric and double bass. Mm-hmm.

1927
01:13:27,425 --> 01:13:28,605
George do Vivier.

1928
01:13:28,805 --> 01:13:30,725
I won't name all of them, but it's fun to think

1929
01:13:31,115 --> 01:13:32,365
Vivi was an amazing classic.

1930
01:13:32,705 --> 01:13:34,245
Um, he actually played

1931
01:13:34,245 --> 01:13:36,765
with like Art Tatum back in the thirties, I think is Yeah.

1932
01:13:36,765 --> 01:13:37,885
Yeah. Wow. Oh, incredible.

1933
01:13:37,885 --> 01:13:39,285
Yeah, he's on this one too. That's great.

1934
01:13:39,285 --> 01:13:42,085
Those vibes that are so prominent are George Devins.

1935
01:13:42,985 --> 01:13:47,205
And interestingly, not Ronnie Foster, he played Organ.

1936
01:13:47,455 --> 01:13:51,205
Right. But not on that fragment. That's reused. Right.

1937
01:13:51,425 --> 01:13:54,685
But he's 50% of the publishing on Tribe Song

1938
01:13:54,885 --> 01:13:56,605
'cause he's the soul songwriter of the original. Yeah.

1939
01:13:56,605 --> 01:13:57,885
Amazing. Oh, that's so great.

1940
01:13:58,835 --> 01:14:03,525
Well, um, Guys, the time has come. I know it's us.

1941
01:14:03,665 --> 01:14:07,205
Oh God, US four, US four will now be listening

1942
01:14:07,205 --> 01:14:09,725
to Blake is going Luxxury's going from like one of the peak

1943
01:14:09,725 --> 01:14:11,205
of like explanation here.

1944
01:14:11,755 --> 01:14:13,445
He's about to pull it all down. Or maybe

1945
01:14:13,445 --> 01:14:14,445
Not. I'm gonna mute, I'm

1946
01:14:14,445 --> 01:14:15,085
gonna mute the

1947
01:14:15,085 --> 01:14:16,165
audio for the next 30 seconds.

1948
01:14:16,265 --> 01:14:17,285
Us four will be listening

1949
01:14:17,305 --> 01:14:20,845
to Luxuries clip us three cantaloupe flip.

1950
01:14:20,945 --> 01:14:21,945
Oh, I see what you did there. Ladies

1951
01:14:21,945 --> 01:14:24,125
and gentlemen, as you know,

1952
01:14:24,125 --> 01:14:26,005
we have something special down here at

1953
01:14:26,005 --> 01:14:27,045
Bird Landing this evening.

1954
01:14:28,245 --> 01:14:30,605
A recording for Blue Note records.

1955
01:14:30,945 --> 01:14:31,685
Peewee Marquette.

1956
01:14:47,985 --> 01:14:49,885
I'm just picturing the Keenan Thompson.

1957
01:14:50,905 --> 01:14:52,565
No, no,

1958
01:14:53,395 --> 01:14:54,395
Come on. I was just thinking

1959
01:14:54,395 --> 01:14:56,125
like, see what Blue can do for you.

1960
01:14:56,635 --> 01:14:57,965
It's just been used in so many

1961
01:14:58,095 --> 01:14:59,765
Funky, fun, bitty bitty B

1962
01:14:59,765 --> 01:15:01,885
and funky, funky to hear the bitty bitty

1963
01:15:01,915 --> 01:15:02,915
Only take two at a time.

1964
01:15:03,335 --> 01:15:04,805
Enjoy your aged wife.

1965
01:15:05,645 --> 01:15:07,325
I might have been shouting over it and I apologize.

1966
01:15:07,545 --> 01:15:10,405
But the most offensive parts of the song are the bitty,

1967
01:15:10,405 --> 01:15:12,045
bitty Bob and the funky, funky,

1968
01:15:12,135 --> 01:15:13,405
funky. I can't tolerate those.

1969
01:15:13,415 --> 01:15:14,445
Funky. We're gonna get to the

1970
01:15:14,445 --> 01:15:15,605
funky, funky in just a second.

1971
01:15:15,825 --> 01:15:18,805
But I didn't even include the sample from the Art Blakey A

1972
01:15:18,805 --> 01:15:22,085
Night at Burland, which has the introductory, uh, uh,

1973
01:15:22,595 --> 01:15:26,165
monologue from Peewee Marquette who would introduce bands

1974
01:15:26,165 --> 01:15:28,285
Legendary radio ho uh, jazz radio host

1975
01:15:28,385 --> 01:15:29,485
Friday and Saturday nights.

1976
01:15:29,485 --> 01:15:31,325
That's awesome. At Birdland on 52nd

1977
01:15:31,325 --> 01:15:33,045
Street would introduce bands. That's the

1978
01:15:33,045 --> 01:15:34,285
Only thing Authentic is

1979
01:15:34,285 --> 01:15:35,965
that introduction on this. The rest

1980
01:15:35,965 --> 01:15:37,125
Of it, I didn't pull the original

1981
01:15:37,245 --> 01:15:41,045
'cause it's literally unchanged from played at all.

1982
01:15:41,045 --> 01:15:44,245
I don't know if that's, if there's a word for

1983
01:15:44,245 --> 01:15:45,565
that Luxxury in your upcoming book,

1984
01:15:45,565 --> 01:15:47,445
but like, just using Exactly.

1985
01:15:47,515 --> 01:15:49,205
Without anything else added to it.

1986
01:15:49,265 --> 01:15:50,325
But yeah, that's what's going

1987
01:15:50,325 --> 01:15:51,325
On. They just sampled it

1988
01:15:51,325 --> 01:15:53,325
wholesale, like, you know, um,

1989
01:15:53,545 --> 01:15:56,605
you know, MC Hammer can't touch this style.

1990
01:15:56,665 --> 01:15:58,885
Is that what you mean? Yes. Like just the loop Unformed.

1991
01:15:58,885 --> 01:16:00,005
No, but I mean, just the opposite of

1992
01:16:00,005 --> 01:16:01,845
what we just heard on a Tribe called Quest. Exactly. Right.

1993
01:16:01,845 --> 01:16:04,725
But it's also not melodic or like, what is that?

1994
01:16:04,725 --> 01:16:05,645
When you're sampling, when

1995
01:16:05,645 --> 01:16:08,005
you're just taking somebody talking. Right. And

1996
01:16:08,005 --> 01:16:09,845
There's no Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Right. And

1997
01:16:09,845 --> 01:16:10,925
No Musical ment.

1998
01:16:10,945 --> 01:16:13,325
Um, I mean, are you saying like from a,

1999
01:16:13,325 --> 01:16:16,045
from a copyright standpoint, you could make the case

2000
01:16:16,045 --> 01:16:18,525
that it's, I don't know, man, you'd probably have

2001
01:16:18,525 --> 01:16:19,565
to pay for it no matter what.

2002
01:16:19,755 --> 01:16:22,565
Even any of the song it's part of, right? Yeah.

2003
01:16:22,745 --> 01:16:24,925
It depends on who your lawyers and who their lawyers.

2004
01:16:24,975 --> 01:16:26,205
Maybe if they're friends, they can

2005
01:16:26,205 --> 01:16:27,565
make a deal between the two of them. Yeah.

2006
01:16:28,285 --> 01:16:29,765
I was just gonna point out real quick that um,

2007
01:16:30,235 --> 01:16:33,725
because I listen, I'll, I'll still always maintain

2008
01:16:33,725 --> 01:16:35,605
that there's nothing, I think

2009
01:16:35,605 --> 01:16:38,245
where this song probably falls short is the lyrics,

2010
01:16:38,245 --> 01:16:40,525
because I don't think musically it's that bad.

2011
01:16:40,765 --> 01:16:43,645
I think it's, I think you, you said you, you have a problem

2012
01:16:43,645 --> 01:16:46,285
with Bitty Bitty Bop and Funky Funky, which, you know, I,

2013
01:16:46,965 --> 01:16:48,885
I can promise you that that was not, you know,

2014
01:16:48,885 --> 01:16:51,805
necessarily the soundtrack to my drives, you know, as a

2015
01:16:51,965 --> 01:16:52,965
Teenager.

2016
01:16:53,065 --> 01:16:55,485
But, um, but I think that, look, you know,

2017
01:16:55,485 --> 01:16:56,885
we were just talking about Tribe Called Quest

2018
01:16:56,885 --> 01:16:58,085
on the genius of Q-Tip.

2019
01:16:58,245 --> 01:16:59,325
I, I will maintain that.

2020
01:16:59,325 --> 01:17:03,245
If you'd had, you know, butterfly from Digable Planets

2021
01:17:03,305 --> 01:17:06,125
or you know, guru from Gangstar or

2022
01:17:06,185 --> 01:17:08,925
or more capable mc, this could have been a,

2023
01:17:09,005 --> 01:17:10,085
a really interesting track.

2024
01:17:10,225 --> 01:17:13,245
And one of my all time favorite samples is Art

2025
01:17:13,245 --> 01:17:14,525
Blakey of the Jazz Messengers.

2026
01:17:14,525 --> 01:17:17,525
We were just talking about, um, Q-Tip sampling.

2027
01:17:17,985 --> 01:17:20,165
He samples a song. Uh, oh gosh,

2028
01:17:20,695 --> 01:17:25,605
Blake, oh, we said Qtip sample

2029
01:17:25,605 --> 01:17:26,605
that in something, I think.

2030
01:17:27,425 --> 01:17:29,165
Yes, you're right. Oh, that's actually that song.

2031
01:17:29,245 --> 01:17:31,685
I was gonna say that, uh, my favorite, uh, chant for Blue,

2032
01:17:31,985 --> 01:17:33,205
uh, chant for Boo.

2033
01:17:33,925 --> 01:17:34,925
A chant for Boo. A

2034
01:17:34,925 --> 01:17:35,605
Ch for Boo. If

2035
01:17:35,605 --> 01:17:37,965
You guys can somebody just play the first part of Ch

2036
01:17:37,965 --> 01:17:38,965
For Boo? And that was our blakeys,

2037
01:17:38,965 --> 01:17:40,245
uh, nickname Boo. This

2038
01:17:40,245 --> 01:17:41,085
Is our Blakey and the Jazz

2039
01:17:41,085 --> 01:17:42,085
Messengers. Yeah. Check this out.

2040
01:17:42,665 --> 01:17:44,015
Our Blakeys nickname was

2041
01:17:44,075 --> 01:17:48,615
Boo. Ah, yeah. Yeah.

2042
01:17:48,875 --> 01:17:52,535
See that's good. But you see what I mean, like,

2043
01:17:52,535 --> 01:17:54,815
you know, like the, all the parts and pieces.

2044
01:17:55,165 --> 01:17:57,415
Yeah. For Genius, by the way, A cha for booze.

2045
01:17:57,415 --> 01:18:00,695
Just that's that, that might be in my Top Five Tops.

2046
01:18:00,725 --> 01:18:01,775
Jazz samples of all time.

2047
01:18:02,275 --> 01:18:05,135
Um, all the, all the, all the greatness was there.

2048
01:18:05,135 --> 01:18:08,015
And I did, correct me if I'm wrong, the, the whole point

2049
01:18:08,015 --> 01:18:11,095
of this was to was for Blue Note to be like, Hey guys,

2050
01:18:11,475 --> 01:18:14,015
you know, come to us. We've got all the jazz.

2051
01:18:14,195 --> 01:18:16,895
Yes. Yeah, sure. Off of this. But I,

2052
01:18:17,005 --> 01:18:18,005
It's Just, you already nailed it.

2053
01:18:18,005 --> 01:18:19,815
It's just insufficiently transformed to me

2054
01:18:19,875 --> 01:18:21,975
and it's, it's, it's sort of a hack job.

2055
01:18:21,975 --> 01:18:23,695
Listen, I didn't know much about it

2056
01:18:24,385 --> 01:18:25,615
Named Mc, like named this mc,

2057
01:18:25,695 --> 01:18:27,735
I think his name is Hin or something like that. Was

2058
01:18:27,735 --> 01:18:28,735
He from London?

2059
01:18:29,145 --> 01:18:31,815
Three are British. They're British producers.

2060
01:18:31,815 --> 01:18:32,935
Like there you go. It's just,

2061
01:18:32,935 --> 01:18:34,855
they should have gotten some New York guys, right?

2062
01:18:34,855 --> 01:18:36,415
Yes. On the scene to like,

2063
01:18:36,675 --> 01:18:39,375
If we had gotten, if Premier or a Q-Tip

2064
01:18:39,395 --> 01:18:41,375
or anybody else had flipped the sample.

2065
01:18:41,375 --> 01:18:43,255
Because you're right. What a great opportunity

2066
01:18:43,325 --> 01:18:44,535
With Fantasia. I agree.

2067
01:18:44,895 --> 01:18:46,775
They Opened the catalog to say, listen,

2068
01:18:47,005 --> 01:18:49,375
it's like they do this now with writers' camps.

2069
01:18:49,375 --> 01:18:50,455
Right? Like primary Wave.

2070
01:18:50,455 --> 01:18:52,215
We'll gather a whole bunch of people, songwriters

2071
01:18:52,215 --> 01:18:55,775
and say, use our catalog interpolate these old hits.

2072
01:18:55,775 --> 01:18:57,535
Yeah. Make a new hit with something familiar.

2073
01:18:57,835 --> 01:18:59,415
That's what they were doing. Which is great.

2074
01:18:59,605 --> 01:19:01,055
It's very embracing of sampling.

2075
01:19:01,515 --> 01:19:03,655
I'm just saying in this case, no shade

2076
01:19:03,715 --> 01:19:05,615
to Jeff Wilkinson from London

2077
01:19:05,995 --> 01:19:08,455
and his production partner Mel Simpson,

2078
01:19:08,715 --> 01:19:11,255
who I know nothing about, aside from them being us

2079
01:19:11,255 --> 01:19:12,375
Three's production team.

2080
01:19:12,375 --> 01:19:15,335
Yeah. And you know, it's a little bit to my years.

2081
01:19:15,565 --> 01:19:17,375
It's not the pinnacle

2082
01:19:17,435 --> 01:19:19,975
of hip hop production, that's all I'll say.

2083
01:19:20,165 --> 01:19:21,415
It's sanitized, it's pop

2084
01:19:21,415 --> 01:19:22,655
hiphop. I mean, it's like, there you go.

2085
01:19:22,655 --> 01:19:24,295
It's sanitized For people who don't know the story.

2086
01:19:24,315 --> 01:19:26,535
So US three is the first Hiphop Act signed

2087
01:19:26,535 --> 01:19:28,255
to Blue Note records with this idea.

2088
01:19:28,515 --> 01:19:30,455
Use our catalog Yeah. For the samples.

2089
01:19:30,755 --> 01:19:32,175
And we haven't played it yet. So the name of the,

2090
01:19:32,315 --> 01:19:33,495
the name of the track is, which is silly

2091
01:19:33,495 --> 01:19:34,495
Though. It's not like they couldn't have

2092
01:19:34,495 --> 01:19:35,815
used, I mean I, you know,

2093
01:19:35,815 --> 01:19:37,015
anybody can record Canal.

2094
01:19:37,165 --> 01:19:38,895
It's all silly. But the, the name of the,

2095
01:19:38,895 --> 01:19:40,895
the US three track is cantaloupe Flip

2096
01:19:40,995 --> 01:19:42,135
and we haven't played it yet,

2097
01:19:42,135 --> 01:19:43,655
but of course this is from the Blue Note.

2098
01:19:44,035 --> 01:19:46,015
Uh, recording from Herbie Hancock's. Yeah.

2099
01:19:46,175 --> 01:19:48,255
Imperian Isles Cantaloupe Island,

2100
01:19:50,545 --> 01:19:51,975
Which is groovy as hell.

2101
01:19:55,525 --> 01:19:57,695
Yeah. Freddie Hubbard on trumpet as a pocket

2102
01:19:59,715 --> 01:20:00,715
By the Way. They should

2103
01:20:00,715 --> 01:20:01,615
have sampled Freddie

2104
01:20:01,615 --> 01:20:02,615
On that. The groovy as hell. But

2105
01:20:02,615 --> 01:20:04,535
Herbie's, not Herbie's trying

2106
01:20:04,535 --> 01:20:06,615
to make something very commercial in this time.

2107
01:20:06,615 --> 01:20:08,045
Yeah. Like he's writing this like,

2108
01:20:08,045 --> 01:20:09,845
and using it in commercials as well. These, these, this

2109
01:20:09,845 --> 01:20:11,325
Was Groo jazz. Groo Jazz. For sure. For

2110
01:20:11,325 --> 01:20:12,325
Sure. It's like a baa It's

2111
01:20:12,325 --> 01:20:14,285
more of a BAA inspired. Yes.

2112
01:20:14,445 --> 01:20:15,565
Straight eight. It's not swinging.

2113
01:20:15,835 --> 01:20:18,085
It's literally straight eight notes. Right? Yeah. Yep.

2114
01:20:18,105 --> 01:20:21,005
So there's no swinging in terms of the jazz use of

2115
01:20:21,005 --> 01:20:22,485
that word, but it swings

2116
01:20:22,675 --> 01:20:25,605
because of the drumming and the performances.

2117
01:20:25,765 --> 01:20:29,005
Right. But that is all grd out in a pre-pro tools way. Yeah.

2118
01:20:29,005 --> 01:20:31,045
Yeah. To me, in the flip plant

2119
01:20:31,115 --> 01:20:32,645
version, it's a sort of strict.

2120
01:20:32,785 --> 01:20:33,965
So we're about to hear the funky Funky.

2121
01:20:34,085 --> 01:20:36,405
I got it. Okay. So I've been trying to defend this song.

2122
01:20:37,545 --> 01:20:41,685
What's that? Um,

2123
01:20:42,105 --> 01:20:43,525
it sounds like that guy from uh,

2124
01:20:43,685 --> 01:20:45,725
Battlestar Galactica the robot Or

2125
01:20:45,725 --> 01:20:46,885
was that Yeah, that was, uh,

2126
01:20:48,545 --> 01:20:49,545
Bot No, you're right. Is that Battlestar

2127
01:20:49,545 --> 01:20:51,925
Galactica? Right. M

2128
01:20:53,505 --> 01:20:54,505
Me? No, I,

2129
01:20:54,505 --> 01:20:56,085
okay, now I'm gonna throw 'em under the bus.

2130
01:20:56,245 --> 01:20:58,205
'cause I do remember me and my hip hop friends.

2131
01:20:58,485 --> 01:21:00,325
'cause that is definitely how we were self-identifying

2132
01:21:00,385 --> 01:21:01,445
by 92, 93.

2133
01:21:01,515 --> 01:21:05,485
Yeah. We would laugh out loud at groovy groovy jazzy funky

2134
01:21:05,505 --> 01:21:07,725
pounce bounce dance as we Yeah.

2135
01:21:07,835 --> 01:21:12,245
Like we thought that s**t was hilariously hack bad s**t.

2136
01:21:12,245 --> 01:21:14,325
Yeah. So it's, you know what, I'm try to defend

2137
01:21:14,325 --> 01:21:15,325
It. It's like when I

2138
01:21:15,325 --> 01:21:16,445
say six seven in front of my kids,

2139
01:21:16,445 --> 01:21:17,445
You're no longer defending it.

2140
01:21:18,075 --> 01:21:19,525
When I say six seven in

2141
01:21:19,525 --> 01:21:20,565
front of my teenagers, you're taking

2142
01:21:20,565 --> 01:21:21,725
Your hat out of the ring.

2143
01:21:22,145 --> 01:21:23,605
6, 7, 6, 7. Well

2144
01:21:23,605 --> 01:21:25,645
Look, I want to, I'm gonna take it to another,

2145
01:21:26,285 --> 01:21:30,245
a different level of, of um, breaking this down. Hold on.

2146
01:21:30,245 --> 01:21:31,725
Can we, before we do this, I just wanna get

2147
01:21:31,725 --> 01:21:32,765
to the funky, funky real quick.

2148
01:21:33,085 --> 01:21:35,765
'cause maybe the best sample that is not, it's only used

2149
01:21:35,765 --> 01:21:37,805
for the, for the vocals is Lou Donald back

2150
01:21:37,805 --> 01:21:39,565
to Lou Donaldson. Yeah. What's

2151
01:21:39,685 --> 01:21:41,005
That? You remember Funky Mama?

2152
01:21:41,195 --> 01:21:42,685
Yeah. This is Lou Donaldson.

2153
01:21:42,685 --> 01:21:44,645
Everything I do gonna be funky. That

2154
01:21:44,645 --> 01:21:48,525
Was Guga midnight Creeper. Yeah.

2155
01:21:48,725 --> 01:21:51,925
Midnight Creep. All the yas they're used in. Can

2156
01:21:52,265 --> 01:21:53,265
You know why I threw that?

2157
01:21:53,275 --> 01:21:57,205
What? Everything I play going be funky

2158
01:22:01,265 --> 01:22:02,365
And this track is what I want.

2159
01:22:02,505 --> 01:22:04,525
It was bad timing in my life. It was bad timing. This is

2160
01:22:04,525 --> 01:22:05,525
What I wanted in my life.

2161
01:22:05,945 --> 01:22:07,085
And he wasn't live. I

2162
01:22:07,085 --> 01:22:08,285
always, he said everything's gonna be

2163
01:22:08,285 --> 01:22:09,525
Funky. This is not improved upon.

2164
01:22:10,305 --> 01:22:12,925
And then everything he played was funky. Yeah.

2165
01:22:13,385 --> 01:22:14,805
But, you know, and he only said it once.

2166
01:22:14,985 --> 01:22:17,605
It was the replica. It was the funky, funky part. Oh,

2167
01:22:18,035 --> 01:22:19,035
I'll take it. No, I don't,

2168
01:22:19,035 --> 01:22:20,725
I don't think it was just even the repetition.

2169
01:22:20,925 --> 01:22:23,125
I actually believe that for a large portion

2170
01:22:23,145 --> 01:22:24,605
of my teenage in 20 years,

2171
01:22:25,115 --> 01:22:28,605
just the word funky was the lamest corniest

2172
01:22:28,605 --> 01:22:30,085
word in the English.

2173
01:22:30,155 --> 01:22:32,285
Like nobody ever was like, oh, that's funky.

2174
01:22:32,285 --> 01:22:33,445
Like you couldn't say with

2175
01:22:33,485 --> 01:22:34,485
A Fake face. I

2176
01:22:34,485 --> 01:22:35,765
dunno that I still can. Yeah.

2177
01:22:35,905 --> 01:22:38,165
So no, it was, it was bad timing. It was like,

2178
01:22:39,115 --> 01:22:40,115
Yeah. Well,

2179
01:22:40,115 --> 01:22:42,285
what I was gonna say on the, on the not, not

2180
01:22:42,285 --> 01:22:43,685
to go back to the US three U,

2181
01:22:43,705 --> 01:22:45,405
is it US three or US three? It's

2182
01:22:45,405 --> 01:22:46,365
Gotta be us three, right? Yeah.

2183
01:22:46,665 --> 01:22:49,365
So I, I think it might be used, I think it's the three

2184
01:22:49,925 --> 01:22:51,605
Supposed to be like you guys used,

2185
01:22:51,705 --> 01:22:53,525
But it says the name was Inspired by US three,

2186
01:22:53,885 --> 01:22:57,005
A Horace Parlin album from the founder of Blue Notes.

2187
01:22:58,915 --> 01:23:02,405
They went deep on the That's deep cut. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

2188
01:23:02,665 --> 01:23:04,645
But one thing is they screw up the melody too.

2189
01:23:06,105 --> 01:23:06,605
So it's,

2190
01:23:07,025 --> 01:23:11,245
uh, yeah.

2191
01:23:11,305 --> 01:23:12,405
And then it goes down to here.

2192
01:23:15,595 --> 01:23:17,445
They do that which is like obvious, like

2193
01:23:17,445 --> 01:23:18,805
that's the equivalent of the funky.

2194
01:23:18,805 --> 01:23:19,925
That's, that's amateur hour right there.

2195
01:23:19,925 --> 01:23:21,045
That's amateur s**t. Yeah.

2196
01:23:21,045 --> 01:23:23,365
Because the melody is Goes

2197
01:23:23,535 --> 01:23:25,125
Kirby plays that, that clashing.

2198
01:23:25,225 --> 01:23:26,645
That's part of the vibe of the tune.

2199
01:23:26,795 --> 01:23:28,405
Like they sanitize the melody.

2200
01:23:28,405 --> 01:23:30,405
Even they did, they didn't have to. They're on blue.

2201
01:23:30,405 --> 01:23:31,485
No record. They got the

2202
01:23:31,485 --> 01:23:32,485
Publishing clear. They put it

2203
01:23:32,485 --> 01:23:33,605
into the, the Berkeley

2204
01:23:33,605 --> 01:23:34,845
chord scale theory and they

2205
01:23:35,445 --> 01:23:36,445
Hadn't noticed that before. Can you,

2206
01:23:36,445 --> 01:23:38,405
can you play, can you play that section of,

2207
01:23:38,405 --> 01:23:39,485
of how it was so

2208
01:23:39,485 --> 01:23:40,525
Sample, if you're listening

2209
01:23:40,525 --> 01:23:42,605
to beginner musicians play this at a jam

2210
01:23:42,605 --> 01:23:43,685
session, they're gonna play it like this.

2211
01:23:43,685 --> 01:23:47,085
Yeah. And and also how you canal loop people have

2212
01:23:47,085 --> 01:23:48,085
It. That's all right. I

2213
01:23:48,085 --> 01:23:48,965
mean they're kind of on the wrong.

2214
01:23:53,155 --> 01:23:54,645
Good. We're still on the one chord.

2215
01:23:54,645 --> 01:23:55,685
The a then it goes the

2216
01:23:55,705 --> 01:24:00,605
Dfl Herbie it.

2217
01:24:00,715 --> 01:24:02,485
Same melody. That's the Herbie version's.

2218
01:24:02,485 --> 01:24:04,285
The her, that's the amateur. But they go,

2219
01:24:04,285 --> 01:24:05,405
but they don't change the melody.

2220
01:24:06,115 --> 01:24:07,125
They put a blue note on it.

2221
01:24:07,205 --> 01:24:08,445
I see, I see, I see. That's the

2222
01:24:08,445 --> 01:24:09,445
Funky. They move to the,

2223
01:24:09,445 --> 01:24:11,045
they move to the second chord. Yes.

2224
01:24:11,105 --> 01:24:12,205
Is what you're, is right. Yeah. Okay.

2225
01:24:12,205 --> 01:24:13,285
And the whole fun thing, you know,

2226
01:24:13,285 --> 01:24:15,245
Herbie's stuff is always a little, eh, you know,

2227
01:24:15,665 --> 01:24:17,805
and it's just kind of like, you're literally like, oh,

2228
01:24:17,805 --> 01:24:19,125
let's wash off Herb.

2229
01:24:19,225 --> 01:24:21,845
What's the British accent? That'll be taking it too far.

2230
01:24:21,865 --> 01:24:24,725
But you know, they're washing it off in a way by

2231
01:24:24,725 --> 01:24:25,725
The way. They do that. So Us

2232
01:24:25,725 --> 01:24:27,565
three does that too. Us three May.

2233
01:24:27,565 --> 01:24:29,525
That changes the note job. Yeah,

2234
01:24:29,525 --> 01:24:30,525
Let's check it out. Because they're

2235
01:24:30,525 --> 01:24:32,085
not sample. The trumpet's not sample on

2236
01:24:32,085 --> 01:24:33,165
his, somebody's playing it.

2237
01:24:33,745 --> 01:24:35,205
That's not Freddie. Got it.

2238
01:24:35,205 --> 01:24:37,365
They didn't sample Freddie Hover, I don't think. Come

2239
01:24:37,365 --> 01:24:38,365
Here. It might just be

2240
01:24:38,365 --> 01:24:39,885
a cheap Corg. Triton or

2241
01:24:40,125 --> 01:24:41,125
Keyboard. Yeah,

2242
01:24:41,125 --> 01:24:41,315

2243
01:24:44,995 --> 01:24:45,995
That sounds Sad. Pretty

2244
01:24:45,995 --> 01:24:47,965
real. For 1990. What's that two?

2245
01:24:53,245 --> 01:24:54,525
I see that's not the original.

2246
01:24:54,825 --> 01:24:56,365
I'm just now realizing that people that

2247
01:24:56,545 --> 01:24:57,545
Do this got, I never noticed that.

2248
01:24:58,005 --> 01:25:00,845
Probably know this song from the canal loop flip. Yeah.

2249
01:25:00,945 --> 01:25:02,365
And not from the original.

2250
01:25:02,475 --> 01:25:03,205
Yeah. Wow. They Would be

2251
01:25:03,305 --> 01:25:04,325
so they're playing the wrong version.

2252
01:25:04,875 --> 01:25:06,045
Yeah. Anybody like in their mid

2253
01:25:06,345 --> 01:25:08,005
to low forties, later forties

2254
01:25:08,195 --> 01:25:09,195
Feel called out.

2255
01:25:10,025 --> 01:25:12,325
You play that Way. No, of course not.

2256
01:25:13,285 --> 01:25:14,885
I mean, that's just a stupid thing. Whatever.

2257
01:25:15,105 --> 01:25:17,125
But I think it does go along the lines

2258
01:25:17,125 --> 01:25:18,245
with everything is just,

2259
01:25:18,505 --> 01:25:20,685
but I do remember around this time being like,

2260
01:25:20,685 --> 01:25:22,085
people like this was a hit, wasn't

2261
01:25:22,085 --> 01:25:23,085
It? Number seven on the billboard.

2262
01:25:23,085 --> 01:25:24,285
Damn. 100.

2263
01:25:24,285 --> 01:25:26,205
Yeah. Man, there's no problem for bad taste.

2264
01:25:26,465 --> 01:25:28,805
But I mean, it's like, there was, I remember a lot

2265
01:25:28,805 --> 01:25:29,925
of people were excited about this.

2266
01:25:29,985 --> 01:25:31,125
Ooh, this is jazzy

2267
01:25:31,125 --> 01:25:34,765
because it says jazzy, jazzy, funky, lame, whatever.

2268
01:25:35,085 --> 01:25:37,325
But I was like, that's Herbie Hancock. That's my hero.

2269
01:25:37,525 --> 01:25:38,525
I know her. You know, that's true.

2270
01:25:38,535 --> 01:25:40,325
There was a certain amount in the jazz world

2271
01:25:40,345 --> 01:25:42,205
of us really being excited.

2272
01:25:42,205 --> 01:25:43,965
This is the closest during that period. Yeah.

2273
01:25:44,045 --> 01:25:45,165
I I, I remember that. Fair enough.

2274
01:25:45,285 --> 01:25:48,405
I remember the jazz artist feeling like, Hey, this is cool

2275
01:25:48,405 --> 01:25:49,445
because like, and

2276
01:25:49,445 --> 01:25:50,845
because you gotta remember, you place it

2277
01:25:50,845 --> 01:25:51,885
in this historical context.

2278
01:25:52,175 --> 01:25:53,485
There was all this conversation.

2279
01:25:53,485 --> 01:25:54,725
Even James Brown got in

2280
01:25:54,725 --> 01:25:56,365
and I like, Hey, if you're gonna sample me,

2281
01:25:56,365 --> 01:25:57,685
just keep it clean brothers.

2282
01:25:57,705 --> 01:25:59,725
You know what I mean? Like, there was no cursing.

2283
01:25:59,725 --> 01:26:01,285
There was no cursing in Canta loop. Right.

2284
01:26:01,285 --> 01:26:02,845
You know what I mean? So like, they were,

2285
01:26:02,845 --> 01:26:04,725
it was almost like jazz musicians taking,

2286
01:26:05,145 --> 01:26:07,485
taking the power back almost from these,

2287
01:26:07,505 --> 01:26:08,645
you know, raunchy rappers.

2288
01:26:08,645 --> 01:26:11,085
Right, right. So yeah. It, it all played into it, huh?

2289
01:26:11,085 --> 01:26:12,605
Yeah. I mean, Ron Carter, I was picking it up.

2290
01:26:12,715 --> 01:26:14,445
It's Gerard presence

2291
01:26:14,445 --> 01:26:17,805
or replayed that sax line in the US three version.

2292
01:26:17,955 --> 01:26:19,445
Okay. I'm, I just found that out.

2293
01:26:19,445 --> 01:26:20,725
So you're right, it's replayed Yeah.

2294
01:26:20,725 --> 01:26:22,205
By a guy who played it wrong. Yeah,

2295
01:26:22,205 --> 01:26:23,205
Yeah, yeah. Um,

2296
01:26:23,205 --> 01:26:24,885
and I mean that, well,

2297
01:26:24,945 --> 01:26:27,685
Ron Carter famously great bassist when he went on the tribe,

2298
01:26:27,985 --> 01:26:31,005
um, was that on Marauders or was that on something?

2299
01:26:31,305 --> 01:26:32,685
Uh, that was on, um,

2300
01:26:33,265 --> 01:26:34,965
the other one from that era. Uh, we just,

2301
01:26:35,065 --> 01:26:37,525
Ron Carter on the base, that was Q-Tip on.

2302
01:26:37,525 --> 01:26:39,165
They're calling him out, but he wasn't gonna do the record

2303
01:26:39,445 --> 01:26:40,525
'cause he's like, I'm not going on.

2304
01:26:41,985 --> 01:26:44,765
My man came by the, the studio

2305
01:26:46,185 --> 01:26:49,605
and his name is Buster Robs in effect,

2306
01:26:50,775 --> 01:26:52,325
Shahe is in effect.

2307
01:26:52,595 --> 01:26:55,565
This is just with Ron Carter and the vocals.

2308
01:26:55,655 --> 01:26:57,525
Check it out and give me my snake.

2309
01:26:57,525 --> 01:26:59,645
That's Ron Carter. Yeah, You're right. It's the Low end

2310
01:26:59,645 --> 01:27:00,165
Theory. Low

2311
01:27:00,165 --> 01:27:00,725
End theory. Thank you.

2312
01:27:01,135 --> 01:27:02,805
Thank you. Low end theory. But

2313
01:27:02,805 --> 01:27:03,885
like, that's Ron playing on it.

2314
01:27:03,885 --> 01:27:04,965
When they first call him, they're like, no,

2315
01:27:05,045 --> 01:27:06,925
I don't do hiphop 'cause I don't agree with cursing.

2316
01:27:07,025 --> 01:27:08,565
And they had to promise him there'd be no

2317
01:27:08,565 --> 01:27:09,885
cursing in the, in, in that,

2318
01:27:09,885 --> 01:27:11,325
Uh, versus from the abstract. And

2319
01:27:11,325 --> 01:27:12,325
That's part of the reason too. I

2320
01:27:12,325 --> 01:27:13,565
think they're calling him out so much. Thank you.

2321
01:27:13,625 --> 01:27:15,445
Ron Carter. You know, they do all that like, thank you

2322
01:27:15,445 --> 01:27:16,565
for coming, showing up.

2323
01:27:17,195 --> 01:27:19,525
Yeah. I mean, I will say that I tried

2324
01:27:19,525 --> 01:27:21,005
to play Speak of the Devils.

2325
01:27:21,045 --> 01:27:22,925
I tried to play the Beat Nuts for my father

2326
01:27:22,925 --> 01:27:24,485
because it was so jazz sample.

2327
01:27:24,595 --> 01:27:25,685
Yeah. You know what I mean?

2328
01:27:25,685 --> 01:27:27,085
And I was like, dad, you'll like this.

2329
01:27:27,285 --> 01:27:28,765
'cause this sample's all your favorite like

2330
01:27:28,765 --> 01:27:29,925
jazz records I put it on.

2331
01:27:30,165 --> 01:27:31,725
I don't think he got past the first course,

2332
01:27:31,725 --> 01:27:33,325
but he is like, man, like,

2333
01:27:33,445 --> 01:27:36,165
'cause he didn't, he didn't like the courtesy.

2334
01:27:36,165 --> 01:27:38,005
He didn't like the, the, the imagery

2335
01:27:38,005 --> 01:27:39,005
that they were provoking.

2336
01:27:39,025 --> 01:27:41,085
So again, we look back now

2337
01:27:41,105 --> 01:27:44,165
and like everybody seems so innocent because, you know,

2338
01:27:44,665 --> 01:27:47,605
but it was, uh, that language did not fly with guys Born

2339
01:27:47,605 --> 01:27:48,885
during the Great Depression. Right.

2340
01:27:48,885 --> 01:27:50,885
I'll put it. Right. Exactly. Exactly.

2341
01:27:51,195 --> 01:27:54,805
Well, uh, Luxxury and Diallo from one song.

2342
01:27:54,805 --> 01:27:56,445
Thank you guys Yes. For spending this time.

2343
01:27:56,445 --> 01:27:57,725
You've been so generous with your time

2344
01:27:57,745 --> 01:27:59,125
and with your incredible knowledge.

2345
01:27:59,155 --> 01:28:01,485
It's been just a blast to talk to you. Yeah. And so

2346
01:28:01,485 --> 01:28:02,485
Much fun. This is

2347
01:28:02,485 --> 01:28:03,365
awesome. We gotta do it again.

2348
01:28:03,365 --> 01:28:05,085
And everybody go check out one song.

2349
01:28:05,355 --> 01:28:06,445
It's literally the opposite

2350
01:28:06,445 --> 01:28:08,285
of 40 songs that we're doing today.

2351
01:28:08,315 --> 01:28:09,965
Like, well, what they do over day? No,

2352
01:28:09,965 --> 01:28:11,325
We do the, we do the same thing on our show.

2353
01:28:11,325 --> 01:28:12,325
Okay. We start with one

2354
01:28:12,325 --> 01:28:13,805
and then we just, lots of rabbit holes

2355
01:28:13,805 --> 01:28:14,925
and connections. It's fun. Yeah.

2356
01:28:15,185 --> 01:28:17,605
We will link to your episode on Electric Relaxation

2357
01:28:17,665 --> 01:28:18,725
so the folks can check it out.

2358
01:28:18,785 --> 01:28:20,605
And we're also link to the one with Patrice Rushing.

2359
01:28:20,685 --> 01:28:21,925
'cause I saw that. That is incredible.

2360
01:28:21,925 --> 01:28:24,445
Patrice Rush, the way you guys, uh, talk.

2361
01:28:24,645 --> 01:28:26,885
I mean, she's such a, you know, insider pick,

2362
01:28:26,985 --> 01:28:28,685
but it was just so, and if you could put

2363
01:28:28,685 --> 01:28:29,845
In a good word too, we'd love to.

2364
01:28:29,995 --> 01:28:32,045
Yeah. If she text you back, tell her we said, Hey.

2365
01:28:32,585 --> 01:28:33,965
She always text me back. She's one

2366
01:28:33,965 --> 01:28:35,685
of these people she will always text back eventually.

2367
01:28:35,685 --> 01:28:37,165
She might be on a plane somewhere. Yeah.

2368
01:28:37,225 --> 01:28:38,965
But, uh, I'll, I'll leave it in the comments

2369
01:28:39,065 --> 01:28:40,725
of this video, what she said. Okay.

2370
01:28:40,725 --> 01:28:42,325
That's Great. Awesome. Thank you guys. Cool.

2371
01:28:42,325 --> 01:28:43,325
Well, until next time

2372
01:28:43,345 --> 01:28:44,045
You'll hear it.