WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:03.848 --> 00:00:04.488 Colin: What's up? 00:00:04.488 --> 00:00:05.338 We're back. 00:00:05.898 --> 00:00:06.788 CJ: Hey, how's it going? 00:00:07.018 --> 00:00:07.528 Colin: good. 00:00:07.798 --> 00:00:08.568 How's the week been? 00:00:08.958 --> 00:00:09.478 CJ: Awesome. 00:00:10.395 --> 00:00:12.195 It's been pretty fast. 00:00:12.195 --> 00:00:12.455 I don't know. 00:00:12.455 --> 00:00:15.335 This feels like it flew by really quick, which is, is good. 00:00:15.385 --> 00:00:16.745 You know, it can be good and bad. 00:00:17.335 --> 00:00:19.585 I just edited our last episode and put it up. 00:00:19.585 --> 00:00:23.395 So if you are listening along now, you can head back to the last 00:00:23.395 --> 00:00:28.535 episode, learn all about our debate about monoliths and other things. 00:00:28.935 --> 00:00:29.585 Actually, that's not, 00:00:29.845 --> 00:00:32.135 Colin: I was like, I don't remember having that, that debate. 00:00:32.300 --> 00:00:32.680 CJ: Okay. 00:00:33.760 --> 00:00:35.490 It's funny because I saw that article. 00:00:35.580 --> 00:00:39.860 Do you remember that there was like a monolith, like a physical monolith that 00:00:39.860 --> 00:00:44.260 just appeared somewhere like out in the desert and then it disappeared and then it 00:00:44.260 --> 00:00:46.360 reappeared recently somewhere in Nevada? 00:00:46.365 --> 00:00:49.605 Colin: Yeah, I just shared that there's a it's like fully mirrored 00:00:49.615 --> 00:00:54.805 monolith that just reappeared somewhere in Nevada again this last week. 00:00:56.650 --> 00:00:58.740 CJ: It's, that is so interesting. 00:00:58.750 --> 00:01:00.050 And like, where did it come from? 00:01:00.050 --> 00:01:01.090 Who, whose is it? 00:01:01.620 --> 00:01:05.850 And I think the one that was in California last time, this was several 00:01:05.850 --> 00:01:08.760 years ago, like, like appeared, was there for like a few days and then 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:13.320 disappeared and no one could explain like how it got there or yeah. 00:01:13.320 --> 00:01:13.990 What happened to it? 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:14.070 It's 00:01:14.285 --> 00:01:14.725 Colin: Yeah, I don't know. 00:01:15.175 --> 00:01:16.895 I don't know how big the new one is. 00:01:16.945 --> 00:01:20.195 I've seen pictures of it, but it's hard to get a sense of scale, 00:01:20.195 --> 00:01:21.415 especially because it's mirrored. 00:01:23.195 --> 00:01:28.625 I wonder like if it's It's got to be placed by like humans. 00:01:28.675 --> 00:01:29.015 Right. 00:01:29.065 --> 00:01:29.615 But like, 00:01:29.660 --> 00:01:29.990 CJ: Yeah. 00:01:29.990 --> 00:01:31.900 It's like a crop circle types thing. 00:01:32.085 --> 00:01:35.005 Colin: but then you gotta be like, okay, how many people are in on this? 00:01:35.610 --> 00:01:40.670 to be so aware of no one else seeing you place it. 00:01:41.110 --> 00:01:44.690 The amount of planning to make sure that no one is around, that no one sees 00:01:44.690 --> 00:01:48.480 you, you know, I could see like a number of people just keeping a lookout and 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:50.080 then being like, okay, everyone's gone. 00:01:50.090 --> 00:01:51.180 Now let's bring it in. 00:01:51.190 --> 00:01:55.970 But also no photos, no video, no anything about anyone placing it. 00:01:56.100 --> 00:01:57.690 You know, that's hard to do these days. 00:01:57.960 --> 00:01:58.880 Cameras are everywhere. 00:02:00.220 --> 00:02:03.650 CJ: did they, I mean, did they bring it in with a helicopter or something to like, 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:04.800 Colin: I think aliens 00:02:04.930 --> 00:02:05.770 CJ: the darkness? 00:02:06.130 --> 00:02:06.380 Yeah. 00:02:06.380 --> 00:02:06.840 Aliens. 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:07.140 Okay. 00:02:07.895 --> 00:02:09.935 Colin: Where's the History Channel Aliens guy? 00:02:10.765 --> 00:02:11.505 CJ: Oh my gosh. 00:02:11.535 --> 00:02:15.055 That's like the late night thing that I feel like the YouTube algorithm 00:02:15.065 --> 00:02:16.765 always just veers off a cliff. 00:02:16.785 --> 00:02:19.165 And if I wake up in the middle of the night, it's playing, 00:02:19.925 --> 00:02:21.755 Colin: He's one of my favorite memes, so. 00:02:23.515 --> 00:02:24.215 It's always good. 00:02:24.295 --> 00:02:25.315 CJ: yeah, nice, 00:02:25.455 --> 00:02:26.865 Colin: mysteries, or, yeah. 00:02:26.945 --> 00:02:27.555 CJ: Yes. 00:02:27.905 --> 00:02:28.275 Right. 00:02:28.315 --> 00:02:28.745 Yeah. 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:31.920 Colin: Yep I think we've been talking about it. 00:02:32.220 --> 00:02:34.720 Let's see if you've been editing the last episode. 00:02:34.720 --> 00:02:40.650 We probably talked about some fitness updates can do an update here still trying 00:02:40.650 --> 00:02:46.845 to figure out what the heck is going on with my breathing I am adding stress and 00:02:46.845 --> 00:02:52.615 anxiety to the list of things that it probably are not helping it, but I can't 00:02:52.615 --> 00:02:55.685 remember if I talked about in the last episode, but I had like this breath work 00:02:55.715 --> 00:03:01.855 massage that definitely helped and like, it was like focused on your diaphragm 00:03:01.875 --> 00:03:07.415 and the muscles that you'd use to breathe and your back and like completely unstuck 00:03:07.415 --> 00:03:09.185 me because I got it the day before. 00:03:09.540 --> 00:03:11.690 The RTO and it was amazing. 00:03:12.330 --> 00:03:17.595 So I'm going to do another one of those and mostly just Yoga, 00:03:17.625 --> 00:03:21.265 stretching, breathwork, exercises. 00:03:21.295 --> 00:03:25.175 I feel like such a tech bro, but a little Wim Hof, a little 00:03:25.235 --> 00:03:26.475 you know, all of those things. 00:03:26.885 --> 00:03:30.965 And then just trying to de stress and like, try not like, if I'm thinking about 00:03:30.965 --> 00:03:33.895 work, just write it down and put it away. 00:03:34.445 --> 00:03:35.935 Try to do fewer things. 00:03:36.345 --> 00:03:38.815 Slow productivity back to the, back to that episode. 00:03:38.875 --> 00:03:39.265 CJ: Yeah. 00:03:40.205 --> 00:03:44.625 Did it bug you during the run or it felt good during the run? 00:03:44.925 --> 00:03:45.145 Colin: Yeah. 00:03:45.145 --> 00:03:48.745 I mean, I think it definitely made it more like I would have been able to do 00:03:48.745 --> 00:03:52.600 it without the massage, but that like completely unlocked me for that race. 00:03:53.160 --> 00:03:57.910 And then I don't know that it was COVID because I tested negative like four times, 00:03:58.470 --> 00:04:02.030 but my partner got it this last week. 00:04:02.160 --> 00:04:06.330 And then I just felt super off and it could have been just more 00:04:06.510 --> 00:04:08.940 stress, allergies, cold, whatever. 00:04:09.535 --> 00:04:12.955 But I feel like I'm like right back to where I was before RTO. 00:04:12.955 --> 00:04:16.185 So it's like always another, always another thing. 00:04:16.185 --> 00:04:19.485 So if you're sitting in front of a desk, if you work at a computer a 00:04:19.485 --> 00:04:25.335 lot, you gotta, gotta spend that time, you know, away every, every hour I'm 00:04:25.335 --> 00:04:28.695 at the computer, I'm trying to spend two away, but you know, there's only 00:04:28.695 --> 00:04:32.385 so many hours in the day and that, that math doesn't math very well. 00:04:33.820 --> 00:04:38.000 CJ: Would you recommend the the massage for people who are, yeah, 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:38.690 like trying to get better at 00:04:38.950 --> 00:04:42.700 Colin: Like when I, when I told the team that I had done it, all of 00:04:42.700 --> 00:04:45.810 a sudden they were like, all get, they're like, I need this info. 00:04:45.840 --> 00:04:49.340 Like I want, everyone would like to just be able to breathe a little bit easier. 00:04:49.340 --> 00:04:51.270 And it's not a thing that we really. 00:04:51.865 --> 00:04:52.965 think about, right? 00:04:52.965 --> 00:04:56.845 Like a lot of people don't like you'll go get a massage as like a relaxation thing. 00:04:56.845 --> 00:04:59.755 But I mean, it was, there was some painful spots, but they were 00:04:59.765 --> 00:05:02.355 spots that needed the attention. 00:05:02.455 --> 00:05:04.415 And yeah, it was super nice. 00:05:04.465 --> 00:05:07.685 I would, I need to figure out like how to get them. 00:05:07.845 --> 00:05:11.735 Like maybe we get like a discount for our, our running club. 00:05:11.905 --> 00:05:14.855 Maybe if you're, if you're in Reno, we get a discount for our listeners. 00:05:15.235 --> 00:05:16.675 But yeah, I would look for it. 00:05:16.940 --> 00:05:20.660 In whatever city you're in, if there's like someone who focuses 00:05:20.660 --> 00:05:24.180 on like intercostal muscles, breath work, things like that. 00:05:26.440 --> 00:05:29.450 CJ: And with the Wim Hof stuff, where is that something you just like 00:05:29.470 --> 00:05:33.100 learned online or how did you learn like those breathing techniques? 00:05:33.520 --> 00:05:37.780 Colin: so that I've been to a class locally which was interesting. 00:05:37.830 --> 00:05:41.160 It was really, it's, it's interesting to do it by yourself and you 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:42.540 can watch YouTube videos on it. 00:05:42.540 --> 00:05:46.020 You should do it, you know, sitting down or laying down, not while you're 00:05:46.020 --> 00:05:49.840 driving, not while you're swimming or in the shower or anything like that. 00:05:49.840 --> 00:05:52.780 Cause you can like pass out if you don't do it. 00:05:52.780 --> 00:05:53.110 Right. 00:05:53.610 --> 00:05:58.805 But for me, I find when I do it, It's like a series of inhales and 00:05:58.805 --> 00:06:00.715 exhales and then long breath holds. 00:06:00.755 --> 00:06:02.735 And then you do another one and then you do another one. 00:06:03.175 --> 00:06:05.815 And what's really interesting is like, it makes your body more I 00:06:05.815 --> 00:06:11.075 think it's alkaline and you end up having longer breath holds each time. 00:06:11.515 --> 00:06:15.235 Like if you do three in one sitting, each breath hold for me tends to 00:06:15.235 --> 00:06:16.655 get longer and longer and longer. 00:06:16.975 --> 00:06:20.585 So I might go from like 50 seconds to a minute, 30 to two minutes. 00:06:21.015 --> 00:06:22.915 And it is really crazy to see that in like. 00:06:23.575 --> 00:06:24.505 one sitting. 00:06:24.865 --> 00:06:28.345 And so if you're really good about doing it every day or multiple times 00:06:28.345 --> 00:06:31.675 per day, you start to get longer and longer breath holds and you can feel it. 00:06:31.675 --> 00:06:37.825 And I can tell a really different like sense of like stress leaving my body 00:06:37.825 --> 00:06:41.365 when I do it, the ability to breathe a little bit deeper and things like that. 00:06:41.365 --> 00:06:45.005 So yeah, this is a, this is a breath work podcast now. 00:06:46.105 --> 00:06:48.795 CJ: Yeah, I think that would be really good for swimming. 00:06:48.945 --> 00:06:54.335 Like I definitely noticed that if I, there was a period where I would bring 00:06:54.335 --> 00:06:58.665 Logan to the gym and he would do, he was doing like these rock climbing classes. 00:06:58.665 --> 00:07:00.785 And during those rock climbing classes, I would go swim. 00:07:00.815 --> 00:07:05.315 And I've found that even just one day a week of swimming for like 30 minutes 00:07:05.345 --> 00:07:08.045 helped feel like I was breathing better. 00:07:08.145 --> 00:07:09.475 Yeah, so that's kind of interesting. 00:07:09.915 --> 00:07:10.335 I don't know. 00:07:10.665 --> 00:07:12.185 I'm assuming you don't smoke. 00:07:12.185 --> 00:07:12.245 Yeah. 00:07:12.695 --> 00:07:13.285 Colin: I do not. 00:07:13.400 --> 00:07:13.680 CJ: I don't know. 00:07:14.230 --> 00:07:14.640 You do not. 00:07:14.670 --> 00:07:14.980 Okay. 00:07:15.340 --> 00:07:18.700 So yeah, I've definitely found that too, that like if I'm in a period 00:07:18.700 --> 00:07:24.450 where I'm vaping or smoking or whatever it's, I, I feel like way 00:07:24.450 --> 00:07:26.460 shorter of breath than when I'm not. 00:07:26.510 --> 00:07:30.070 And so like, that's probably another massive thing where, 00:07:30.150 --> 00:07:34.480 you know, if I go several months without like inhaling anything, 00:07:35.070 --> 00:07:36.250 then it's much easier to breathe. 00:07:36.670 --> 00:07:37.000 But 00:07:37.090 --> 00:07:37.600 Colin: Yeah. 00:07:37.860 --> 00:07:38.750 That's the tricky one. 00:07:38.750 --> 00:07:44.740 Like I've never been a fan of like, I want like try a few things, but like 00:07:44.740 --> 00:07:48.510 smoking it's just like with running and the amount of stuff that I do with that, 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:51.640 it's just like, I know it doesn't at all. 00:07:51.860 --> 00:07:52.210 Right. 00:07:52.790 --> 00:07:56.340 So I will stick to edibles and things like that when I want 00:07:56.340 --> 00:07:58.400 to have some extra relaxation. 00:07:58.420 --> 00:07:58.730 But. 00:07:59.365 --> 00:07:59.945 CJ: Yes. 00:08:00.220 --> 00:08:00.630 Colin: Yeah. 00:08:00.630 --> 00:08:04.140 I mean, just like so much focus has been in, I feel like in health 00:08:04.170 --> 00:08:06.030 and in tech around drinking lately. 00:08:06.530 --> 00:08:09.580 I feel like smoking is going to be the next one where we just, 00:08:09.610 --> 00:08:13.960 we just don't know so much about what vaping is doing to us either. 00:08:13.960 --> 00:08:17.730 And, but if you want to breathe easy. 00:08:19.110 --> 00:08:19.360 CJ: Yeah. 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:21.730 Speaking of that, I know, no, like in previous episodes, 00:08:21.730 --> 00:08:22.650 we talked about Peloton. 00:08:22.660 --> 00:08:26.680 One of my favorite Peloton instructors, Kendall tool is leaving Peloton. 00:08:26.700 --> 00:08:30.700 And I think the company she's joining is one of these like non alcoholic beer 00:08:30.910 --> 00:08:31.720 Colin: Oh, nice. 00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:33.610 CJ: Called like athletic brewing or something 00:08:33.630 --> 00:08:34.040 Colin: I love 00:08:34.070 --> 00:08:36.050 CJ: like a beer, like, Oh, you do. 00:08:36.060 --> 00:08:36.410 Okay. 00:08:36.450 --> 00:08:37.160 I've never heard of it. 00:08:37.170 --> 00:08:38.080 So like, yeah. 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:40.870 What it's, it's just like a, yeah. 00:08:40.870 --> 00:08:43.450 Non alcoholic beer craft beer or something 00:08:43.640 --> 00:08:43.890 Colin: Yeah. 00:08:43.890 --> 00:08:45.440 They have a bunch of different types. 00:08:45.450 --> 00:08:47.250 So like right now it's summertime. 00:08:47.250 --> 00:08:52.710 So I get like some of the They're like, like a Radler style beers, like more 00:08:52.780 --> 00:08:58.560 citrus style, but they've got like a white, a Belgian, they've got red an IPA 00:08:59.010 --> 00:09:02.820 and they're all in a I think they, they're very, I think they're based in Denver. 00:09:03.460 --> 00:09:08.990 It feels very much like a fitnessy Denver brand, but it's just nice. 00:09:08.990 --> 00:09:12.590 Like if you don't want to have a drink or you want to have something after a 00:09:12.590 --> 00:09:17.680 run or workout, like you can have this thing that is more than just water and 00:09:18.420 --> 00:09:19.870 kind of makes it into something nice. 00:09:19.870 --> 00:09:22.330 Cause there's so many people who want to replace drinking. 00:09:22.980 --> 00:09:26.900 They find like nothing really compares, but if you like have that ritual of 00:09:26.900 --> 00:09:31.270 something else, you know, even liquid death or something like that can help. 00:09:31.430 --> 00:09:31.980 With that, 00:09:34.260 --> 00:09:36.460 CJ: yeah, it's, it's interesting because I think a lot of people, 00:09:36.470 --> 00:09:39.980 well, obviously a lot of people use alcohol as like a social lubricant. 00:09:40.430 --> 00:09:44.920 And so I have seen a handful of different things pop up on Instagram 00:09:44.920 --> 00:09:48.220 and whatever, of people trying to come up with their own chemicals that 00:09:48.230 --> 00:09:55.040 have similar, like, I guess, anxiety reducing properties that are also in 00:09:55.040 --> 00:09:57.080 a way, some sort of social lubricant. 00:09:57.550 --> 00:10:00.410 And in the past I've done, so I have a buddy. 00:10:00.815 --> 00:10:04.165 Jeff who, like, hosts Kava ceremonies. 00:10:04.725 --> 00:10:07.405 I don't know if you've, like, been to one of these, but that, that was really, 00:10:07.405 --> 00:10:08.765 like, eye opening and surprising to me. 00:10:08.765 --> 00:10:12.375 It's like, it's a chemical or, like, a, it's a drink that you can't mix 00:10:12.375 --> 00:10:13.575 with alcohol or you're not supposed to. 00:10:13.575 --> 00:10:16.275 It's, like, very bad for your, like, liver and kidneys and such. 00:10:16.425 --> 00:10:22.285 And so we'd go to these Hangouts basically where it is a very connected social 00:10:22.475 --> 00:10:29.175 experience and you're drinking this drink together and it's not alcoholic in any 00:10:29.175 --> 00:10:34.255 way, but it does give you like I don't know, some sort of recreational benefits 00:10:34.255 --> 00:10:36.275 and like soothing, calming benefits. 00:10:36.725 --> 00:10:38.065 So, yeah, I don't know. 00:10:38.365 --> 00:10:38.555 Colin: Yeah. 00:10:38.555 --> 00:10:41.885 We have a tea lounge in Reno, the yoga studio. 00:10:42.385 --> 00:10:43.765 And they have Kava. 00:10:45.010 --> 00:10:45.730 CJ: Oh, nice. 00:10:46.190 --> 00:10:46.420 Very 00:10:46.665 --> 00:10:50.835 Colin: Yeah, so Kava and Kratom as well, which I don't know much about, 00:10:50.835 --> 00:10:52.725 so I will not try to talk about it. 00:10:52.745 --> 00:10:57.255 But, another one of those things that has some effects and it's, 00:10:57.345 --> 00:10:58.665 I, I don't know much about it. 00:10:58.715 --> 00:11:02.875 But, yeah, I mean, I think that social lubricant thing is, is interesting 00:11:02.895 --> 00:11:06.840 because it's like, it has made me try to figure out how to go to bed. 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:10.710 Events where I don't know people if I know I'm not going to drink. 00:11:10.990 --> 00:11:14.550 It is a learned behavior It's you know, I find myself to be pretty 00:11:14.550 --> 00:11:18.150 social But like sometimes I like I don't want to fake it and that's 00:11:18.170 --> 00:11:22.330 where it's like alcohol can make that easier And I also don't necessarily 00:11:22.330 --> 00:11:24.070 want to only have fun if i'm drinking. 00:11:24.100 --> 00:11:27.880 So there's like this balance of of things there I'm curious. 00:11:27.890 --> 00:11:31.490 What do you know what she's doing at athletic because going from peloton to 00:11:31.490 --> 00:11:33.490 athletic is like very big difference 00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:36.560 CJ: I'm assuming she's going to be like an influencer. 00:11:37.050 --> 00:11:38.650 But I don't, yeah, I don't know. 00:11:39.380 --> 00:11:39.890 Colin: very cool 00:11:40.920 --> 00:11:43.530 CJ: yeah, so we'll see, but yeah, 00:11:43.585 --> 00:11:44.055 Colin: update. 00:11:44.950 --> 00:11:45.580 CJ: that's it. 00:11:45.805 --> 00:11:47.565 Colin: What are you working on this week? 00:11:49.310 --> 00:11:50.190 CJ: Oh gosh. 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:53.900 So I wrote, I wrote and published this blog post Couple of days ago 00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:57.210 about some learnings that we've had with rails over the last year. 00:11:57.230 --> 00:12:01.520 And one of them is around enums and when to use them and when not to use them. 00:12:01.540 --> 00:12:06.780 And so we're working on this massive refactor can to convert one enum 00:12:06.780 --> 00:12:12.500 into a model, a proper model with a relationship, but it really like stem, 00:12:12.510 --> 00:12:18.000 this particular refactor stems from a thing that I've seen now a few times lots 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:21.180 of different startups, and I think it's worth chatting about, and I don't know. 00:12:21.795 --> 00:12:25.905 The best practices here or the best way to go about this. 00:12:25.905 --> 00:12:29.505 But every time that I'm working with startup founders, they just 00:12:29.515 --> 00:12:31.635 love to experiment with pricing. 00:12:31.755 --> 00:12:34.465 They just like want to try lots of different pricing models. 00:12:34.465 --> 00:12:36.545 And like Kraftwerk is no different. 00:12:36.555 --> 00:12:40.615 And we started off with like this very simple, transparent flat rate 00:12:40.615 --> 00:12:45.105 pricing where, okay, if your room is, is small, medium, or large, 00:12:45.650 --> 00:12:46.860 And you want to paint the walls. 00:12:46.880 --> 00:12:49.870 It's like a fixed 200, 400, 600 or something. 00:12:49.910 --> 00:12:50.190 Right. 00:12:50.190 --> 00:12:54.580 And it's just like this flat rate amount for a service that we're going to provide. 00:12:55.090 --> 00:12:59.670 And over the last year, we've learned a lot about the business and a lot about how 00:12:59.670 --> 00:13:05.660 to align the value that we're adding with the amount that a customer should pay. 00:13:06.130 --> 00:13:11.480 And I think that's where the tension lies in, if I reflect on all these 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:13.370 different situations, it's between like. 00:13:14.130 --> 00:13:17.930 The business trying to align the incentives and align the value with 00:13:17.930 --> 00:13:21.370 what the customers are getting and trying to do that in a way that makes 00:13:21.370 --> 00:13:22.980 it profitable to run the business. 00:13:23.750 --> 00:13:28.540 And so in the craftwork use case, we're talking about stuff like, Oh, if 00:13:28.540 --> 00:13:31.450 it's, if we need to add an extra coat of paint, that's going to take longer, 00:13:31.450 --> 00:13:32.650 it's going to take more supplies. 00:13:33.060 --> 00:13:38.410 So, you know, one room that is just drywall that's fresh 00:13:38.410 --> 00:13:39.920 drywall is going to require. 00:13:40.260 --> 00:13:44.080 More work than a room that's pre painted or, you know, we're just doing a repaint. 00:13:44.420 --> 00:13:49.530 And so that is this concept, or maybe there's this concept of like modifying it. 00:13:49.540 --> 00:13:49.830 Right. 00:13:49.830 --> 00:13:53.460 And so then you can think of a data model or an approach where you're building 00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:56.470 some object oriented relationships where you can apply modifiers on 00:13:56.470 --> 00:13:58.450 top of some flat rate base pricing. 00:13:59.245 --> 00:14:03.415 But then we have these buckets that are actually like not granular enough. 00:14:03.455 --> 00:14:07.695 And it would be ideal if we could do it based on the actual square footage, 00:14:07.765 --> 00:14:11.265 like the surface area, square footage of the wall and like the linear feet 00:14:11.265 --> 00:14:14.205 that we need to cut and things like that to get like even more specific. 00:14:14.705 --> 00:14:20.085 And yeah, it's, it is something that will. 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:22.880 We'll get better at, and there's a few things that we've picked up, 00:14:22.900 --> 00:14:27.180 but I'm definitely like noticing that this is a hard problem that I'm 00:14:27.180 --> 00:14:29.070 sure every startup is running into. 00:14:29.070 --> 00:14:33.860 And that's like, how do you properly price thinking back to my VR, this 00:14:33.860 --> 00:14:38.720 was SAS software that I think we initially were just charging like 40 00:14:38.780 --> 00:14:43.110 per property per month or something, or maybe even like a flat 40 per month. 00:14:43.710 --> 00:14:47.875 And then it didn't, we didn't have any like additional fees No matter 00:14:47.875 --> 00:14:51.525 how many properties you have for this, like property management software. 00:14:51.895 --> 00:14:54.735 And then over time we were like, Oh, actually the more properties you 00:14:54.735 --> 00:14:56.415 have, the more value you're getting. 00:14:56.475 --> 00:14:58.735 So let's add like a per property fee. 00:14:58.735 --> 00:15:02.815 So now it's, maybe it's 10 per month, plus 2 a month per property. 00:15:03.435 --> 00:15:07.885 And then we're like, Oh, well, The value you're getting isn't necessarily the 00:15:07.885 --> 00:15:09.265 number of properties you're managing. 00:15:09.635 --> 00:15:11.745 It's actually based on the size of the bookings. 00:15:11.755 --> 00:15:15.165 So like if one person only has one property, but they're booking out 00:15:15.165 --> 00:15:17.695 at like 10, 000 a night and another person has a property and they're 00:15:17.695 --> 00:15:19.875 booking at a hundred dollars a night, like that's pretty different. 00:15:19.885 --> 00:15:26.145 So then do we make it a percentage based on like how much the bookings are? 00:15:26.545 --> 00:15:27.225 And then. 00:15:27.560 --> 00:15:32.200 Yeah, so I dunno, it's, it's, it's super hairy, but yeah, one of the 00:15:32.210 --> 00:15:35.250 things that I have found really valuable is having versioned pricing. 00:15:35.250 --> 00:15:42.070 So every time that we want to release a new price or set of prices or approach 00:15:42.070 --> 00:15:45.520 or algorithm for calculating a price, we have, we cut a version, almost like 00:15:45.520 --> 00:15:47.530 an API version, it's a pricing version. 00:15:47.900 --> 00:15:50.210 And a whole bunch of stuff is tied to that pricing version. 00:15:50.640 --> 00:15:53.890 And then we can like run all the calculations with the right models 00:15:53.890 --> 00:15:58.510 and such, but Yeah, it, it's, it's a problem that I'm curious if other 00:15:58.510 --> 00:16:02.150 people are solving this like really well and nailing it right out of 00:16:02.160 --> 00:16:06.750 the gate to make like super flexible pricing that evolves very easily 00:16:06.750 --> 00:16:08.650 depending on what the founder needs or, 00:16:09.555 --> 00:16:11.795 Colin: Yeah, there's there's like two parts to that, right? 00:16:11.805 --> 00:16:14.855 Because you've got the technical How do you store it and calculate 00:16:14.855 --> 00:16:16.765 it and save it and use it? 00:16:17.605 --> 00:16:21.175 And do you use or stay on the old pricing and are they grandfathered 00:16:21.175 --> 00:16:23.285 in on the value metric side? 00:16:23.325 --> 00:16:26.460 Yeah, it's so interesting to think about like, you know, How do you pick 00:16:26.460 --> 00:16:28.160 a metric that scales with value too? 00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:31.790 Like when you're explaining that, like the, even the property one, it's like, 00:16:31.790 --> 00:16:36.190 well, if I have four properties, you know, I could see property being a value, 00:16:36.190 --> 00:16:40.190 a scaling value metric with transistor. 00:16:40.190 --> 00:16:44.840 What I liked about how they did it is that it's based on our listeners, not 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:49.930 the number of podcasts where previously most were each new podcast was like 10 00:16:49.930 --> 00:16:52.640 to 50, 10 to 20 a month or whatever. 00:16:53.110 --> 00:16:55.660 And that prevented me from making more podcasts. 00:16:55.670 --> 00:16:55.930 Right. 00:16:55.930 --> 00:16:59.430 So it actually prevents the user from doing the thing that you want them 00:16:59.430 --> 00:17:03.130 to do versus, you know, obviously like if we created 20 podcasts, 00:17:03.140 --> 00:17:04.800 they're all not going to be great. 00:17:04.810 --> 00:17:08.730 So you still want to focus, but the value metric for us is, well, I 00:17:08.730 --> 00:17:10.030 guess for us, it's different, right? 00:17:10.070 --> 00:17:10.300 Right. 00:17:10.300 --> 00:17:13.900 We do this for ourselves, but like the idea is you're paying by user. 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:16.410 It doesn't matter how many podcasts and it lets you have like more. 00:17:16.810 --> 00:17:19.680 Hits it, that bat type of thing where we can try a few 00:17:19.690 --> 00:17:21.390 podcasts and see which one works. 00:17:21.840 --> 00:17:26.760 When you're talking about houses, it's like does a user, does a, does a homeowner 00:17:26.760 --> 00:17:32.270 or someone who's hiring you'd really think like getting their, their room painted. 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:34.480 What is the value metric? 00:17:34.550 --> 00:17:38.870 Is it that it was painted or is it, do they truly think of it in linear feet? 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:39.930 Probably not. 00:17:39.980 --> 00:17:41.970 Do they think of it in layers of paint? 00:17:42.010 --> 00:17:42.950 Probably not, right? 00:17:42.950 --> 00:17:44.410 It's either, is it done or not? 00:17:45.050 --> 00:17:49.430 And if they hired someone more traditional, that person, if it's going 00:17:49.430 --> 00:17:52.960 from drywall, is going to have to deal with the same number of layers of paint. 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:54.870 So is it that it's cheaper? 00:17:54.870 --> 00:17:55.700 Is it that it's better? 00:17:55.700 --> 00:17:57.200 Is it a convenience? 00:17:57.210 --> 00:17:59.710 Is it like, there's so many avenues there. 00:18:00.290 --> 00:18:02.710 And I think with craft work, it's like all those things, right? 00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:03.110 It's. 00:18:03.340 --> 00:18:09.270 And then how do you price that scales so that you're not leaving money on the 00:18:09.270 --> 00:18:13.320 table for every time you'd paint, like, especially if you're losing money on 00:18:13.320 --> 00:18:17.220 every, you know, if you're like, Oh, we realized that these rooms of this 00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:18.780 size just don't make us this money. 00:18:18.780 --> 00:18:23.140 So we're only going to do rooms of this size or, you know, doing repaints is 00:18:23.140 --> 00:18:27.250 better than drywall or we get really good at drywall and drywall is actually better 00:18:27.270 --> 00:18:28.610 because we won't want to paint it our way. 00:18:28.610 --> 00:18:33.080 So there's a lot of things that aren't even represented in code, which is gnarly. 00:18:34.185 --> 00:18:34.635 CJ: Totally. 00:18:34.685 --> 00:18:35.045 Yeah. 00:18:35.065 --> 00:18:39.735 And then, yeah, so I think the value they're getting is not 00:18:39.745 --> 00:18:42.965 having to do it themselves, like not having to paint it themselves. 00:18:43.005 --> 00:18:48.955 And it is often in contrast with other competitors in the market. 00:18:48.965 --> 00:18:49.565 So it's like, 00:18:49.585 --> 00:18:53.295 Colin: it can't be like so much more than what someone else would charge. 00:18:54.235 --> 00:18:54.885 CJ: exactly. 00:18:54.925 --> 00:18:55.125 Yeah. 00:18:55.125 --> 00:18:58.875 It's like, okay, this person could either go buy all the paint and 00:18:58.875 --> 00:19:03.775 spend 20 hours themselves to paint it, or they could pay someone. 00:19:04.925 --> 00:19:10.035 X dollars or they could pay us X plus, you know, 5 or whatever 00:19:10.085 --> 00:19:11.295 per square foot to do it. 00:19:11.305 --> 00:19:14.115 And then yeah, so I think it's, part of it is quality too. 00:19:14.115 --> 00:19:20.505 Like they'll see great customer reviews and they'll see examples of past work and 00:19:20.515 --> 00:19:26.215 social proof and all of this stuff that if someone has like very particular taste 00:19:26.215 --> 00:19:30.635 and certain style that they're trying to achieve, and then they would pick us. 00:19:31.175 --> 00:19:31.815 And. 00:19:32.410 --> 00:19:36.690 Yeah, like on the, on the business side, a giant part of the home 00:19:36.690 --> 00:19:41.090 services business is figuring out how to like nail your gross margin. 00:19:41.150 --> 00:19:45.300 And that's all like very relative to how long it takes to do something 00:19:45.310 --> 00:19:47.090 because a lot of it is tied up in labor. 00:19:47.460 --> 00:19:51.370 So like if you don't estimate correctly how long something is going 00:19:51.370 --> 00:19:57.295 to take, then You are going to like either way under or way overshoot 00:19:57.345 --> 00:19:58.875 the amount of labor that's involved. 00:19:58.905 --> 00:20:05.635 And then that makes it just like V huge variance in the margin per project. 00:20:06.025 --> 00:20:09.385 And like, that's the thing that you want to control for the most in order to 00:20:09.385 --> 00:20:12.475 have like a predictable and sustainable. 00:20:13.020 --> 00:20:14.190 Like home services business. 00:20:14.190 --> 00:20:19.550 And so yeah, it's also balanced with like, how much do we want to enter in? 00:20:19.670 --> 00:20:23.360 Like how much do we actually want to type in and is the sales team going 00:20:23.360 --> 00:20:27.850 through every single room and marking off, you know, like, Oh, this room has. 00:20:28.230 --> 00:20:31.690 Baseboards and crown molding and chair rail and. 00:20:32.155 --> 00:20:34.985 You know, this many windows, this many doors and blah, blah, blah. 00:20:35.435 --> 00:20:35.985 Sure. 00:20:36.385 --> 00:20:39.935 But then on top of that, are they going to be expected to measure the 00:20:39.935 --> 00:20:43.255 linear feet around all those things in the surface area, square feet. 00:20:43.255 --> 00:20:46.935 And yeah, I've got some fun, some fun little projects going on 00:20:46.935 --> 00:20:51.868 with the, the room scanning tools that are built in with the iOS. 00:20:52.408 --> 00:20:54.018 We're mapping stuff, but 00:20:54.068 --> 00:20:59.378 Colin: need like a robot that goes out to a house and like scans everything 00:21:00.718 --> 00:21:01.298 CJ: 100%. 00:21:01.298 --> 00:21:01.728 Yeah. 00:21:01.778 --> 00:21:02.148 Yeah. 00:21:02.358 --> 00:21:02.808 I don't know. 00:21:02.838 --> 00:21:07.218 Like we got a robot vacuum for the first time last year or something. 00:21:07.578 --> 00:21:10.998 And one of the first things it does is like goes through and maps out your house. 00:21:11.438 --> 00:21:12.918 And I thought that was the coolest thing ever. 00:21:12.918 --> 00:21:14.188 I had never seen something like that. 00:21:14.188 --> 00:21:18.418 It's like in 10 minutes, it spit out like this 3d rendering of our house with 00:21:18.418 --> 00:21:22.078 like the, the direction that the wood. 00:21:22.358 --> 00:21:23.038 Runs on the 00:21:23.288 --> 00:21:23.748 Colin: Oh, well 00:21:24.028 --> 00:21:26.528 CJ: so that it would like mop it the correct way. 00:21:26.528 --> 00:21:29.398 And wouldn't like go orthogonal to like the wood grain. 00:21:29.408 --> 00:21:29.748 I was like, 00:21:29.788 --> 00:21:31.378 Colin: you have a nicer one than I do 00:21:32.608 --> 00:21:35.508 CJ: It's yeah, it was like yeah, we'll have to put a 00:21:35.508 --> 00:21:36.418 link to it in the show notes. 00:21:36.418 --> 00:21:36.938 It's the 00:21:37.088 --> 00:21:40.278 Colin: well because there's those they're like these like segue looking robots 00:21:40.278 --> 00:21:44.938 that they tried to do in offices to like let people Remotely be in the office or 00:21:44.938 --> 00:21:49.498 whatever and it's like an ipad on a on a segue Like something like that showing 00:21:49.498 --> 00:21:55.108 up someone's house and doing the iphone 3d mapping thing, you know, and just 00:21:55.109 --> 00:22:00.208 like somewhat Maybe you don't even need that if, if a Roomba is good enough. 00:22:00.728 --> 00:22:03.938 But like a Roomba kind of maps it out by like trying to navigate every 00:22:03.948 --> 00:22:07.768 inch that it can versus just being in the center of the room and then 00:22:07.768 --> 00:22:12.428 doing a few like spins around or kind of like how the those 3d models are 00:22:12.428 --> 00:22:17.378 made for, for showing houses and stuff like that with the, the 3d camera. 00:22:20.158 --> 00:22:20.878 That's pretty cool. 00:22:22.323 --> 00:22:26.813 CJ: Yeah, I think this one might actually have a LIDAR scanner on the top of it. 00:22:27.373 --> 00:22:29.533 So that, yeah, it was I don't know. 00:22:30.103 --> 00:22:31.063 The future is here. 00:22:31.103 --> 00:22:31.943 The future is here. 00:22:31.943 --> 00:22:32.213 It's 00:22:32.303 --> 00:22:35.753 Colin: there was a there was a hilarious meme of someone in a iRobot store and 00:22:35.753 --> 00:22:39.823 like they're surrounded by robot vacuums and the person working the store was 00:22:39.823 --> 00:22:45.393 mopping the floor and They're like, this is the future the robots have taken 00:22:45.393 --> 00:22:47.403 over now and we're doing their bidding. 00:22:48.408 --> 00:22:49.228 CJ: yeah, yeah. 00:22:49.308 --> 00:22:51.988 That's like the, the coffee shop in. 00:22:52.443 --> 00:22:56.623 San Francisco airport that like, where there's like a robot barista, but like 00:22:56.623 --> 00:22:59.953 the humans still have to like refill the cups and like refill the napkins 00:23:00.043 --> 00:23:05.623 and stuff, it's like, okay we're taking away the, yeah, the fun jobs. 00:23:05.708 --> 00:23:06.418 Colin: This one's nice. 00:23:06.418 --> 00:23:07.488 I'm gonna have to look at this one. 00:23:08.038 --> 00:23:08.768 Very cool. 00:23:09.198 --> 00:23:11.828 Well, I'm back with another coworking update, 00:23:12.873 --> 00:23:13.583 CJ: Nice. 00:23:13.583 --> 00:23:14.293 Where are we at? 00:23:14.353 --> 00:23:15.153 I know you were 00:23:15.153 --> 00:23:15.793 Colin: So 00:23:15.898 --> 00:23:20.528 CJ: so last week we talked, you had like a notepad on the door or something, right. 00:23:20.528 --> 00:23:24.318 And, or it was like, you got it to show green or red or yeah. 00:23:24.328 --> 00:23:24.948 So yeah. 00:23:24.948 --> 00:23:25.258 Where are we 00:23:25.563 --> 00:23:26.083 Colin: Yeah. 00:23:26.213 --> 00:23:29.023 I mean, I haven't had a lot of time to play around with software, so 00:23:29.043 --> 00:23:32.263 I've, we're trying one more company. 00:23:32.263 --> 00:23:35.053 It's called Joan, J O A N, getjoan. 00:23:35.053 --> 00:23:35.423 com. 00:23:36.748 --> 00:23:40.578 It's cool because they have like, we already have iPads installed that are 00:23:40.578 --> 00:23:42.798 on mounts and powered and all that. 00:23:43.208 --> 00:23:48.898 So they do have an iPad app that we're going to try and it has a user app that 00:23:48.898 --> 00:23:54.858 you put on your phone and it's, I'm trying to figure out if it's just good enough 00:23:55.318 --> 00:24:02.308 because it has significant delays when I'm testing it and like my programming 00:24:02.318 --> 00:24:06.308 brain knows exactly what they're doing wrong and I also don't want to go build 00:24:06.308 --> 00:24:10.468 it so I'm like torn because it's like I need this thing to be a thing we can 00:24:10.468 --> 00:24:15.828 just pay and like it always is supported and it works and if I build it I'm going 00:24:15.828 --> 00:24:18.868 to be the one supporting it and making sure it always works and what happens 00:24:18.868 --> 00:24:22.828 when Google's down and all that stuff but what's really cool is they have 00:24:22.828 --> 00:24:28.888 these Kindle looking tablets that you can also buy that are, that they have 00:24:28.888 --> 00:24:31.688 like, I think like three months charge. 00:24:32.088 --> 00:24:35.338 And so you can stick them on rooms that don't have power cause 00:24:35.338 --> 00:24:36.368 they're just battery powered. 00:24:36.768 --> 00:24:39.748 So like our phone booths and rooms that we just don't have power, that we 00:24:39.748 --> 00:24:43.668 paid to have power put outside of each conference room and it was not cheap 00:24:43.668 --> 00:24:45.278 to do and I don't want to do it again. 00:24:45.658 --> 00:24:46.268 So. 00:24:46.713 --> 00:24:50.153 As we have other needs for other rooms, it's kind of nice 00:24:50.153 --> 00:24:52.003 to be able to, to do that. 00:24:52.003 --> 00:24:54.643 And I think like the value it's back to the value metric thing, 00:24:54.643 --> 00:24:55.833 like the pricing is very good. 00:24:55.833 --> 00:25:01.273 It's like per room and it's like, I think it's like less than a hundred dollars a 00:25:01.273 --> 00:25:05.353 month, whereas the other one was going to be 5, 000 a year or whatever that math is. 00:25:05.723 --> 00:25:07.173 So like we can handle. 00:25:07.418 --> 00:25:08.338 This very easily. 00:25:08.398 --> 00:25:11.278 It's just, is it good enough though? 00:25:11.278 --> 00:25:12.498 When I say, is it good enough? 00:25:12.508 --> 00:25:16.668 It was like, I doubt anyone's going to be booking the same room at the same time, 00:25:17.058 --> 00:25:21.548 but there's like a few race conditions that I don't think it handles very well. 00:25:21.548 --> 00:25:24.818 Like, it's just like, it's just not as good as our last system. 00:25:25.448 --> 00:25:28.088 So I think it's good enough. 00:25:28.128 --> 00:25:31.688 I think we're going to try it with you know, a few members and see 00:25:31.688 --> 00:25:35.738 if it works good enough that they don't accidentally book on top of 00:25:35.738 --> 00:25:36.828 each other and stuff like that. 00:25:36.828 --> 00:25:38.308 Cause we're using a whiteboard right now. 00:25:38.808 --> 00:25:41.928 Which is people emailing us and then us having to remember to put it on the 00:25:41.928 --> 00:25:47.448 whiteboard in that morning and that is not sustainable when like I'm not in town 00:25:47.448 --> 00:25:51.928 or if we're unstaffed for, you know, like coming up for a holiday, stuff like that. 00:25:51.948 --> 00:25:52.268 So, 00:25:52.468 --> 00:25:52.818 CJ: Yeah. 00:25:53.988 --> 00:25:54.218 Yeah. 00:25:54.218 --> 00:25:54.918 This would be nice too. 00:25:54.938 --> 00:25:58.178 Cause then, yeah, people could presumably you could just book it from 00:25:59.248 --> 00:26:02.708 the, like their, either their user app or like the website or something. 00:26:04.398 --> 00:26:04.908 Colin: yeah. 00:26:05.598 --> 00:26:09.568 Yeah, I mean, there's also, you could literally just use Google's like form, 00:26:09.578 --> 00:26:13.498 but it's just like not great for users to like have to go find this link. 00:26:13.748 --> 00:26:17.468 I thought about doing that in Slack and make like, cause we do try to 00:26:17.478 --> 00:26:21.138 like, we have a high percentage of our members who use Slack being able 00:26:21.138 --> 00:26:25.148 to like do slash book and make a little Slack bot and do all that. 00:26:25.568 --> 00:26:31.028 And it just pops up like the Google calendar booking form for that room. 00:26:32.278 --> 00:26:32.768 We'll see. 00:26:33.168 --> 00:26:36.878 Cause that is what, Google Calendar is the source of truth for all this, so like, we 00:26:36.878 --> 00:26:42.148 could go straight to the source on that, but and then on the like, less, the, the 00:26:42.148 --> 00:26:45.558 one that makes us money is the actual Stripe and membership side of things. 00:26:46.218 --> 00:26:51.188 And we've been finding that we've had some payments and stuff fall through the 00:26:51.188 --> 00:26:55.928 cracks because sometimes when we bill a member, if they're new, we need to send 00:26:55.928 --> 00:26:59.998 them an invoice and they need to like pay it and put a card on file so that 00:26:59.998 --> 00:27:01.688 we can then set up their subscription. 00:27:02.308 --> 00:27:05.168 And I'm sure there's probably a way to do all of that in one step, but 00:27:05.178 --> 00:27:09.608 like, depending on what day of the month it is or all sorts of factors, 00:27:09.688 --> 00:27:13.068 it sometimes gets sent to like an accounting person as an invoice and 00:27:13.068 --> 00:27:14.698 then Then we set up the subscription. 00:27:14.698 --> 00:27:19.118 Once the invoice is paid, sometimes we forget to set up subscription. 00:27:19.978 --> 00:27:24.338 So we use a spreadsheet that has all of our active pause, 00:27:24.368 --> 00:27:25.898 canceling canceled members. 00:27:25.918 --> 00:27:28.978 And then we have Stripe, which is doing all the billing. 00:27:29.458 --> 00:27:33.958 And I think it's time for us to have like just a really lightweight UI of. 00:27:34.393 --> 00:27:38.213 Of that spreadsheet of just who, who does Stripe think is active? 00:27:38.223 --> 00:27:39.023 Who does Stripe think? 00:27:39.033 --> 00:27:42.893 Cause it's not super easy to scroll through Stripe and like, see who's 00:27:42.903 --> 00:27:47.023 active and all that kind of stuff without going into each customer and 00:27:47.023 --> 00:27:48.453 then looking at each subscription. 00:27:48.953 --> 00:27:52.673 And just to have that so that we don't have to do it by hand anymore, because 00:27:52.673 --> 00:27:54.693 I did find, like I wrote a little CLI. 00:27:55.033 --> 00:27:57.473 Script to go audit everything. 00:27:57.473 --> 00:27:59.613 And that's how we found some of the missing ones. 00:27:59.613 --> 00:28:01.873 It's like, why are we not getting paid for these? 00:28:02.333 --> 00:28:03.913 That is super important. 00:28:03.913 --> 00:28:06.943 And then, you know, some of them have been a few months where it's like 00:28:06.943 --> 00:28:10.823 kind of our fault, so we feel like we can't always go get that money. 00:28:10.853 --> 00:28:13.983 But some of them are like, you have your own office and 00:28:13.983 --> 00:28:15.243 you knew you weren't paying. 00:28:15.243 --> 00:28:15.948 So it's, it's. 00:28:16.108 --> 00:28:19.688 It's unfortunately time to pay all at once, but I don't ever want us to be 00:28:19.688 --> 00:28:23.488 in that situation and us getting paid means that we can pay for conference 00:28:23.488 --> 00:28:25.318 room software and all these other things. 00:28:25.318 --> 00:28:29.698 So so working on that right now, it's just a little CLI thing that shows me everyone 00:28:29.698 --> 00:28:33.628 who's active and who's about to start and who's about to cancel and all that stuff. 00:28:33.638 --> 00:28:34.028 So, 00:28:35.128 --> 00:28:35.608 CJ: Nice. 00:28:36.378 --> 00:28:39.383 And then you, are you like manually activating and 00:28:39.383 --> 00:28:40.228 deactivating keys or how does that 00:28:40.448 --> 00:28:43.818 Colin: yeah, the system we use for that is from Slage. 00:28:43.948 --> 00:28:44.438 And. 00:28:44.998 --> 00:28:49.918 We had to log into their UI and then their phone app to add and remove people. 00:28:50.578 --> 00:28:53.848 That door system is like a thousand dollars one time and we 00:28:53.848 --> 00:28:55.478 just replaced it with a new one. 00:28:56.108 --> 00:28:58.668 So we found that it takes like six years for it to completely 00:28:58.668 --> 00:28:59.978 die because we use it. 00:29:00.723 --> 00:29:04.003 The door gets opened and closed so many times in a day that it 00:29:04.003 --> 00:29:07.543 takes about five years before it's just needs to be replaced. 00:29:07.623 --> 00:29:10.023 And that one does not have an API. 00:29:10.333 --> 00:29:13.303 Sadly there's no way, like we could probably get the logs, 00:29:13.343 --> 00:29:16.613 but we can't like create keys and stuff like that dynamically. 00:29:16.623 --> 00:29:20.093 So there's some really cool ones out there that do, but the, you need 00:29:20.093 --> 00:29:24.713 to have like an electrician and a certain door and the lock is expensive 00:29:24.713 --> 00:29:27.223 and then there's a subscription and all of that kind of stuff. 00:29:27.223 --> 00:29:29.833 So the slage one doesn't have a subscription. 00:29:30.228 --> 00:29:33.908 So we paid once we get, you know, it mostly works. 00:29:33.908 --> 00:29:39.288 And sadly, I think for coworking, a lot of software just has to mostly work. 00:29:39.358 --> 00:29:44.008 And if we, if we were paying for an actual coworking software and for a door 00:29:44.008 --> 00:29:48.258 system, like unfortunately the margins are so thin that we wouldn't be making 00:29:48.768 --> 00:29:50.878 any money, so it's, it's definitely a 00:29:51.143 --> 00:29:51.363 CJ: Mm hmm. 00:29:52.543 --> 00:29:52.913 Yeah. 00:29:54.533 --> 00:29:55.973 Well, hopefully Joan works out. 00:29:55.993 --> 00:29:57.673 I think this, this looks super clean. 00:29:57.673 --> 00:30:03.313 I like their their offering seems to be exactly what you need for 00:30:03.603 --> 00:30:05.653 just like co working room space. 00:30:07.123 --> 00:30:10.493 I don't think you do the desk booking thing, but I think that 00:30:10.713 --> 00:30:11.943 seems like it's an option, but 00:30:11.988 --> 00:30:12.528 Colin: Yeah. 00:30:12.528 --> 00:30:16.968 I'm, I'm having to guess that all of these companies are adding desk booking 00:30:16.968 --> 00:30:19.748 because they're being asked for it, or. 00:30:20.413 --> 00:30:23.163 Whether they're guessing that people want it and so they're building 00:30:23.163 --> 00:30:26.553 it so they can add more value and charge more money because I 00:30:26.553 --> 00:30:27.953 don't want the desk booking thing. 00:30:28.153 --> 00:30:31.823 Like no one here wants to choose which desk they want before they get 00:30:31.823 --> 00:30:36.713 here I could see it Like I have to do that when I go into the work office 00:30:36.713 --> 00:30:40.743 in san francisco because they just only have so many And the unfortunate 00:30:40.743 --> 00:30:43.913 thing is when you go into the Joan mobile app, the first screen is desks. 00:30:44.403 --> 00:30:46.573 And it's just like, okay, now I have to teach everybody. 00:30:48.703 --> 00:30:51.193 They'll figure it out if they want their room, but you gotta go to the 00:30:51.193 --> 00:30:54.233 rooms tab, and then you gotta find your room and all that stuff, so. 00:30:56.463 --> 00:31:01.543 CJ: I was just reading something recently where people who are being asked to work 00:31:01.753 --> 00:31:08.993 in the office again, like return the return to office wave, the, what I'm 00:31:08.993 --> 00:31:12.543 hearing is that a lot of offices are having people come back, but they're not 00:31:12.543 --> 00:31:14.553 giving them a dedicated desk necessarily. 00:31:14.923 --> 00:31:16.263 I think that might be a little tough. 00:31:16.293 --> 00:31:19.233 Like you're, you're expected to go into the office five days a week or 00:31:19.383 --> 00:31:23.133 four days a week or something, but you're not given a dedicated desk. 00:31:23.683 --> 00:31:24.803 That might be kind of tough. 00:31:24.853 --> 00:31:25.723 And so. 00:31:26.013 --> 00:31:30.443 I wonder if that's also part of the aim is like, if you had one of these 00:31:30.513 --> 00:31:31.583 you probably know the term for it. 00:31:31.733 --> 00:31:35.473 What is it like when you have an office and, but no one has a dedicated desk, 00:31:35.473 --> 00:31:37.583 you just kind of like go in and flex into 00:31:37.993 --> 00:31:42.653 Colin: Yeah, like flex space or hot desking cafe, hoteling, there's 00:31:42.653 --> 00:31:44.693 all sorts of words from, from, 00:31:44.868 --> 00:31:45.138 CJ: Okay. 00:31:45.813 --> 00:31:47.873 Colin: from the hospitality world. 00:31:49.278 --> 00:31:49.748 CJ: Nice. 00:31:49.888 --> 00:31:50.308 Nice. 00:31:50.768 --> 00:31:51.008 Yeah. 00:31:51.008 --> 00:31:54.468 So you just like go in, hot swap your desk into whichever one you 00:31:54.468 --> 00:31:56.508 want that day, and then leave. 00:31:56.538 --> 00:32:01.508 But yeah, I guess as someone who wants like some stability and being able to 00:32:01.508 --> 00:32:04.898 just like leave your jacket at your desk the night before or whatever, 00:32:05.278 --> 00:32:08.518 Colin: Yeah, and we have like we have resident desks for that where you have 00:32:08.538 --> 00:32:12.448 your own desk and then the other desk like in a perfect world I would love 00:32:12.498 --> 00:32:16.878 to get us to a point where we have like the same monitors at every desk and you 00:32:16.878 --> 00:32:21.748 just plug in but everyone has different setups so like at discord we kind of 00:32:21.748 --> 00:32:26.278 do have that because everyone has like a macbook pro and they're all usbc and 00:32:26.278 --> 00:32:28.763 you just Sit down and get get going. 00:32:28.993 --> 00:32:31.393 I don't actually don't know how they do that with keyboards and stuff I 00:32:31.393 --> 00:32:36.783 think our IT department has keyboards and stuff, but I I mean my 16 inch I'm 00:32:36.793 --> 00:32:39.563 usually fine just working on the laptop. 00:32:39.563 --> 00:32:43.413 And then when I'm here, I've got my full setup, but 00:32:44.158 --> 00:32:44.648 CJ: Nice. 00:32:46.773 --> 00:32:50.273 Colin: So that's the saga of coworking software, the never ending. 00:32:50.983 --> 00:32:51.333 I just 00:32:51.508 --> 00:32:51.688 CJ: It 00:32:52.023 --> 00:32:55.163 Colin: want to think about it anymore, but also I'm like, I don't 00:32:55.163 --> 00:32:59.843 want us to miss any missed revenue or just make, make our community 00:32:59.843 --> 00:33:01.393 manager's life a little bit easier. 00:33:01.443 --> 00:33:05.823 So she, you know, sometimes it's like she'll do the invoice and then she gets 00:33:05.823 --> 00:33:07.733 a tour or a member asks a question. 00:33:07.783 --> 00:33:12.253 And so then like that next step of setting up the scoops never happens 00:33:12.648 --> 00:33:14.548 Cause something else came up. 00:33:15.008 --> 00:33:17.898 So these are things that computers can solve for us. 00:33:18.328 --> 00:33:19.618 So we will use them for that. 00:33:20.648 --> 00:33:20.908 CJ: Yeah. 00:33:20.928 --> 00:33:25.028 I think Stripe payment links now supports like starting a subscription too. 00:33:25.028 --> 00:33:29.428 So you could probably like, well, that doesn't create an invoice, but well, 00:33:29.438 --> 00:33:30.938 maybe it does actually, I don't know. 00:33:31.398 --> 00:33:34.418 It should create a subscription and the subscription should have 00:33:34.418 --> 00:33:35.578 an invoice the first time it goes 00:33:35.858 --> 00:33:36.208 Colin: Yeah. 00:33:36.488 --> 00:33:39.578 CJ: So yeah, you might be able to use payment links and then like looking. 00:33:40.108 --> 00:33:40.958 The billing portal. 00:33:40.968 --> 00:33:41.398 Wow. 00:33:41.398 --> 00:33:42.468 It's so rusty. 00:33:42.478 --> 00:33:43.358 It's so rusty. 00:33:43.858 --> 00:33:45.868 All the product names of like are 00:33:46.228 --> 00:33:48.778 Colin: And I'm sure so many things have changed since you've been there. 00:33:49.078 --> 00:33:50.168 CJ: Yeah, totally. 00:33:50.238 --> 00:33:50.668 Totally. 00:33:50.668 --> 00:33:50.948 Colin: Yeah. 00:33:50.948 --> 00:33:53.038 I don't think we even use payment links. 00:33:53.048 --> 00:33:54.908 Like we, we send an invoice. 00:33:55.058 --> 00:33:58.238 And I guess it's probably using a payment link under the hood and stuff, 00:33:58.268 --> 00:34:02.778 but yeah, there's, there's some room for us to get better at this for sure. 00:34:03.908 --> 00:34:04.218 CJ: cool. 00:34:04.578 --> 00:34:07.878 And then when you're, when they finally subscribe, then you 00:34:07.878 --> 00:34:09.548 get a webhook notification. 00:34:10.408 --> 00:34:11.918 So what's going on with webhooks? 00:34:11.958 --> 00:34:15.568 Let's like, 00:34:16.008 --> 00:34:19.528 Colin: I'd be curious to hear what you think is like the 00:34:19.528 --> 00:34:21.038 purest form of a webhook. 00:34:21.348 --> 00:34:24.128 This actually might be a whole episode, maybe we just tease 00:34:24.128 --> 00:34:27.318 this for next week because we're already getting a little long here. 00:34:27.318 --> 00:34:30.298 But we're having a meeting internally about webhooks today. 00:34:30.908 --> 00:34:34.063 We do not really offer that many webhooks today. 00:34:34.103 --> 00:34:35.783 So that's all I'm going to say there. 00:34:36.203 --> 00:34:39.483 But like there is a way to build bots that use something called interactions, 00:34:39.483 --> 00:34:41.473 which are like webhooks today. 00:34:41.483 --> 00:34:45.463 So it's just been interesting to see different people with different 00:34:45.503 --> 00:34:50.363 backgrounds, different companies have very different kind of takes on webhooks. 00:34:50.363 --> 00:34:55.048 And my joke was like the, the, Elrond and Gandalf, like, you 00:34:55.048 --> 00:34:57.098 know, 3000 years ago, I was there. 00:34:57.108 --> 00:35:00.318 I was there when like I was there when webhooks were created. 00:35:00.418 --> 00:35:02.228 Like, and that's like the funny thing. 00:35:02.228 --> 00:35:06.988 And so like, I have this very specific take on them and I've used them so 00:35:06.988 --> 00:35:12.088 much for Stripe and Shopify and built webhook systems and consume them. 00:35:12.698 --> 00:35:18.293 You know, we why am I blanking on Chris, Chris and I did a webhook talk over at 00:35:18.293 --> 00:35:23.113 RailsConf a few years ago on just like the best practices around consuming them. 00:35:23.653 --> 00:35:27.333 And like, it's one thing to omit them, but it's like a whole thing to consider 00:35:27.333 --> 00:35:29.523 how they will be used and consumed. 00:35:29.523 --> 00:35:34.293 And, you know, are you requiring that people go query every time they get one? 00:35:35.253 --> 00:35:36.783 You know, there's all sorts of stuff there. 00:35:36.783 --> 00:35:39.133 So maybe we tee that up and we talk about webhooks. 00:35:39.133 --> 00:35:41.073 fyi next week. 00:35:41.073 --> 00:35:44.673 And kind of what we, what we both think, what do we want? 00:35:44.673 --> 00:35:46.963 What are, what's our dream webhook look like? 00:35:47.318 --> 00:35:48.378 Is it even webhooks? 00:35:48.388 --> 00:35:49.308 Do we like webhooks? 00:35:49.308 --> 00:35:49.738 I don't know. 00:35:50.388 --> 00:35:55.868 But I had to go check, because I've been in the webhook Google group since 2010. 00:35:56.398 --> 00:36:01.018 And it's mostly defunct now, and like spammers post in it and stuff, but it was 00:36:01.018 --> 00:36:04.178 created when like Jeff Lindsay was trying to come up with a name for what webhooks 00:36:04.188 --> 00:36:09.918 were, and trying to get people to like agree on what this like, you know, this 00:36:09.918 --> 00:36:12.688 notification across HTTP would look like. 00:36:12.738 --> 00:36:15.368 And I don't think we've really, it hasn't really changed too much. 00:36:15.368 --> 00:36:18.948 There's like PubSub and PubSubHubbub and all that stuff out there, 00:36:18.983 --> 00:36:19.213 CJ: hmm. 00:36:21.353 --> 00:36:21.773 Yeah. 00:36:21.853 --> 00:36:22.293 Okay. 00:36:22.373 --> 00:36:23.233 Well, we'll save it. 00:36:23.273 --> 00:36:27.333 This is yeah, this is your teaser We're gonna go deep on webhooks next time 00:36:28.608 --> 00:36:28.988 Colin: We love 00:36:29.213 --> 00:36:31.193 CJ: Yeah, it's me too. 00:36:31.223 --> 00:36:38.413 I think Yeah, there's a, been meaning to write another article to like taking 00:36:38.443 --> 00:36:43.873 the workshop that you guys did, and then just kind of like maybe walking 00:36:43.873 --> 00:36:45.743 through it and talking about stuff. 00:36:45.743 --> 00:36:50.153 I like to sprinkle on top and things that we've added at craftwork and at 00:36:50.233 --> 00:36:54.663 previous companies that are like kind of handy to have for working with them. 00:36:54.663 --> 00:36:55.683 So yeah, that'd be great. 00:36:56.003 --> 00:36:56.703 Great to dig into you 00:36:56.848 --> 00:37:01.008 Colin: Are these articles and writing a part of some new habits for you? 00:37:01.078 --> 00:37:03.988 Or is this like revisiting, revisiting some habits? 00:37:05.023 --> 00:37:05.553 CJ: nice. 00:37:05.953 --> 00:37:08.113 Man, the transitions today are fire. 00:37:08.423 --> 00:37:09.053 You got that? 00:37:11.418 --> 00:37:12.998 Colin: This is an unscripted show, CJ. 00:37:13.753 --> 00:37:15.343 CJ: It is totally unscripted. 00:37:15.423 --> 00:37:15.443 Yeah. 00:37:16.153 --> 00:37:18.113 I am rereading atomic habits. 00:37:18.153 --> 00:37:22.723 I'm, I think the last couple of times I've, or like last, yeah, definitely 00:37:22.723 --> 00:37:25.523 the last time I went through it, I did it on like two X speed or something. 00:37:25.523 --> 00:37:26.733 I was like, ah, I know all this stuff. 00:37:26.753 --> 00:37:28.373 Let me just get a refresher this time. 00:37:28.373 --> 00:37:29.103 I'm doing the opposite. 00:37:29.153 --> 00:37:30.163 I'm savoring it. 00:37:30.203 --> 00:37:33.713 I just, it's just written so well, you know, you got to like, slow it 00:37:33.713 --> 00:37:35.953 down and, and just take little nibbles 00:37:35.988 --> 00:37:37.118 Colin: You're going at half speed. 00:37:38.213 --> 00:37:40.063 CJ: I'm going, yeah, 1. 00:37:40.063 --> 00:37:42.003 0 is my half speed. 00:37:42.083 --> 00:37:46.653 And yeah, just the stories and trying to, trying to really, really absorb everything 00:37:46.653 --> 00:37:49.283 and all the, like, there's so many different frameworks and there's only a 00:37:49.283 --> 00:37:51.623 handful of things that I really remember. 00:37:51.943 --> 00:37:56.233 So I want to, I want to walk away this time feeling like I've got, you know, 00:37:56.243 --> 00:37:58.473 five different frameworks that are easy. 00:37:58.643 --> 00:38:01.333 To just pull out of the back pocket at any time and apply. 00:38:01.413 --> 00:38:03.173 So yeah, going through it slowly. 00:38:03.283 --> 00:38:08.813 The, the writing is not necessarily part of the atomic habits stuff, but 00:38:08.833 --> 00:38:12.173 I think there are just a handful of things I've wanted to make content 00:38:12.183 --> 00:38:13.893 about and I've been slacking. 00:38:13.913 --> 00:38:17.183 So they're finally bubbling up to the surface and making 00:38:17.183 --> 00:38:18.693 their way out onto the page. 00:38:18.693 --> 00:38:18.953 So, 00:38:20.213 --> 00:38:24.703 Colin: Yeah, I've been trying to pick up more writing just because I am feeling 00:38:24.703 --> 00:38:27.773 like I have way too much going on in my head all the time and it needs to 00:38:27.773 --> 00:38:33.473 be just put out on paper so that it doesn't, like, Chanel doesn't want to 00:38:33.473 --> 00:38:34.763 necessarily hear about it all the time. 00:38:35.883 --> 00:38:35.903 CJ: yeah. 00:38:35.943 --> 00:38:38.713 Colin: So it's like, maybe, and then this helps, right? 00:38:38.743 --> 00:38:40.263 Us talking about these things always helps. 00:38:40.653 --> 00:38:44.953 It'd be my, my kind of venting time about some things, but I'm 00:38:44.963 --> 00:38:51.183 wanting to get into obsidian more just because I need some structure. 00:38:51.183 --> 00:38:56.603 Like I write, like right now I have 10 text mate files open where 00:38:56.603 --> 00:38:59.963 I just have different notes and like each one is a different. 00:39:00.383 --> 00:39:01.273 like context. 00:39:01.273 --> 00:39:04.423 So like one's work stuff, one's collective stuff, one's 00:39:04.423 --> 00:39:06.133 personal stuff, one's reminders. 00:39:06.673 --> 00:39:10.713 But then when I do long form writing and stuff that will eventually become 00:39:10.853 --> 00:39:14.803 either my own personal stuff or like when I'm doing revamps of like discord 00:39:14.813 --> 00:39:18.043 docs, obsidian is already in Markdown. 00:39:18.053 --> 00:39:21.843 So like it makes a lot of sense to have like this like scratch 00:39:21.843 --> 00:39:24.643 pad that I can keep that's not. 00:39:24.903 --> 00:39:27.353 a folder of a hundred different Markdown files. 00:39:27.743 --> 00:39:30.963 So I have not dipped my toe in the obsidian world at all. 00:39:30.973 --> 00:39:34.913 There's like YouTube videos on how to build second brains and all, and 00:39:34.913 --> 00:39:36.173 that's not what I'm trying to do. 00:39:36.173 --> 00:39:43.393 It's just, I just need to have like, I can pick up where I left off yesterday 00:39:43.393 --> 00:39:46.693 and not have to go searching for which Markdown file I was in yesterday. 00:39:47.663 --> 00:39:48.123 CJ: right. 00:39:49.853 --> 00:39:50.063 Yeah. 00:39:50.063 --> 00:39:55.523 It's it's definitely one of those things where I have a lot of work stuff in 00:39:55.523 --> 00:39:59.803 linear tickets and in, in linear tasks, but everything else about my life is 00:39:59.803 --> 00:40:02.023 just in my head and it gets exhausting. 00:40:02.083 --> 00:40:04.173 There's just like so many things to keep track of. 00:40:04.173 --> 00:40:04.433 And 00:40:04.433 --> 00:40:05.783 Colin: got to build that system, right? 00:40:05.783 --> 00:40:06.923 The atomic 00:40:07.178 --> 00:40:07.688 CJ: exactly. 00:40:07.688 --> 00:40:07.838 Yeah. 00:40:08.108 --> 00:40:11.708 We fall to our yeah, we fall to the level of our systems. 00:40:11.778 --> 00:40:12.478 Exactly. 00:40:12.923 --> 00:40:15.293 Colin: yeah, I mean like we just started, I guess we've been doing it 00:40:15.293 --> 00:40:18.743 for a few months, but like a shared Google calendar, Chanel and I, and 00:40:19.273 --> 00:40:23.134 I'm sure we'll end up with I guess that we can leave this here with that 00:40:23.134 --> 00:40:24.934 we're moving into a place together. 00:40:24.934 --> 00:40:29.264 So we're like kind of creating the operating system of like bills that 00:40:29.274 --> 00:40:32.874 have to be paid and Calendars and like I'm used to doing all that by 00:40:32.874 --> 00:40:36.224 myself So what does it look like to have that with another person and 00:40:37.143 --> 00:40:37.463 CJ: Mm hmm. 00:40:37.464 --> 00:40:37.623 Mm hmm. 00:40:38.084 --> 00:40:38.414 Colin: you know 00:40:38.693 --> 00:40:39.193 CJ: Ooh, yeah. 00:40:39.193 --> 00:40:40.143 Shared calendar. 00:40:40.173 --> 00:40:41.173 Next thing, you know, 00:40:41.474 --> 00:40:43.214 Colin: It's it's in there now 00:40:45.684 --> 00:40:47.944 We know we know we're doing this weekend so 00:40:48.373 --> 00:40:49.063 CJ: Very cool. 00:40:50.203 --> 00:40:50.693 Yeah. 00:40:50.763 --> 00:40:53.613 I, it sounds like your new place is going to be super dope and you'll 00:40:53.613 --> 00:40:56.073 be close to trail running and 00:40:56.503 --> 00:40:58.063 Colin: little refresh on life 00:40:58.333 --> 00:41:00.693 CJ: congratulations from me and all the users. 00:41:00.843 --> 00:41:01.043 Colin: you. 00:41:02.138 --> 00:41:02.548 CJ: I mean, all the 00:41:02.653 --> 00:41:03.533 Colin: All the users. 00:41:03.783 --> 00:41:06.853 That's very, that's very Tron. 00:41:07.848 --> 00:41:08.068 CJ: Yeah. 00:41:10.478 --> 00:41:10.798 Yeah. 00:41:11.238 --> 00:41:11.478 Very 00:41:11.573 --> 00:41:11.873 Colin: Cool. 00:41:11.973 --> 00:41:13.203 Well, good to chat this week. 00:41:14.053 --> 00:41:16.743 Where can we find all the notes for all the things? 00:41:16.743 --> 00:41:17.003 CJ: Yeah. 00:41:17.003 --> 00:41:18.223 Head over to buildandlearn. 00:41:18.223 --> 00:41:21.153 dev and we'll have links to all the resources we talked 00:41:21.153 --> 00:41:22.883 about in the show notes. 00:41:23.393 --> 00:41:24.773 And yeah, we'll see you next 00:41:24.949 --> 00:41:25.579 Colin: Adios. 00:41:27.333 --> 00:41:27.883 CJ: Bye friends.