Hello again everyone and welcome back to new episodes of the reimagined schools podcast.
I'm your host Greg goins and I'm so excited to bring you new episodes for the summer of
2024. And what I'm calling this summer leadership series. Looking forward to talking to some
amazing guests this summer. Authors, filmmakers, speakers, administrators from around the country,
as we talk about best practices, not only for school leadership, but how to reimagine
schools, whether you're a classroom teacher, an instructional aid, anyone that works in
a school, maybe a parent that spends a lot of time in the school, what can we do this
summer to improve our practice as we think about going back to school next fall? What
can we do to reimagine schools and make your school a better place for kids? So that's
the goal this summer. Very excited to be back with you. As always, give me a follow on X
I'm at Dr. Greg goins. And if you have any questions or if you want to recommend a guest
or a certain topic for our summer leadership series, give me a shout out. I would love
to hear from you. With that, folks, the reimagine schools podcast begins right now.
Hello, good everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the reimagine schools podcast.
Another great episode coming to you this week. Today, we're going to talk about the Kentucky
Virtual Academy. And ky va is the very first free online k 12 public school in the Commonwealth
of Kentucky. So we're going to talk to three administrators that are responsible for Kentucky
Virtual Academy. We've got Dr. Tim, but Bob Rowski, who's a former superintendent in Kentucky,
who serves as executive director of Kentucky Virtual Academy. Keith Haynes, who is the
superintendent of the cloverport independent school district and cloverport runs the Kentucky
Virtual Academy through their independent school district. And we also have Sally Johnson,
who is the principal of Kentucky Virtual Academy. So got a lot of fun things to talk about and
kind of celebrate that inaugural year in existence. So welcome to all three of you. Thank you.
Thank you. All right, so let's start with Superintendent Haynes with the cloverport
independent school district. Anytime you talk about putting together a full blown online
k 12 school, that's a pretty big piece of the bone to bite off. And I know over the
years you've had a kind of a love hate relationship with virtual learning. But of course, we all
had to go through that during the pandemic. Just tell us a little bit about how the k
y va experience began for you and your school district.
Sure. During the pandemic, we had kind of adopted the ingenuity curriculum as our online
learning provider. And we only had after the pandemic ended, we only had a few students
left and a handful, five or fewer that were still working virtually. And we found that
we were not really getting enough support for them. Edgenuity is a great curriculum,
but it requires a lot of self motivation and so forth or direct teacher support. And in
a district our size with that few kids involved, it's tough to offer them that support. So
I kind of started reaching out for a different virtual learning provider, struck up a conversation
with stride k 12. And the vice president, Randall Greenway reached out and said, you
know, we are looking for a partner district in Kentucky. You know, the law has changed
allowing a statewide virtual school. And you know, we wondered if you'd be interested in
being our partner. They came and they met with our Board of Education and we kind of
discussed you know, what what opening k y va might look like for us. Of course, this
was all new territory. So walking in, we had to understand and our board really had to
have the courage and the wherewithal to know that this was new territory that we were treading.
And you know, they certainly were willing to take the delete. And in June, end of June
of last year, we we had an agreement in place and within a month, believe it or not, we
were, you know, a little more than a month we opened k y va for the first day of school.
Yeah, and it was a whirlwind. I know that in talking with your principal, Sally Johnson,
I mean, talk about hitting the ground running, Sally, can you talk about just kind of getting
that phone call and say, hey, we're open for business?
Yeah, it was it was a real adventure, to say the least and a whirlwind. So for about two
weeks before the school opened, I had I started interviewing. And they after everything went
through my background check, four days before school starts, I'm running with running with
the school as their principal. So it was pretty crazy. So I was able to join they had already
hired many teachers. So I was able to join that first week prior to school starting with
their training on the learning platform and the systems and how it's going to look like
for our students as well as our staff.
And Keith, I find it fascinating that you're in a unique position. Obviously, you have
a brick and mortar school district, you have kids there in Cloverport in buildings, going
through that traditional classroom experience. But then KYVA also follows under your purview.
So that is a Cloverport program. So you kind of have the best of both worlds there. And
what are kind of the compare and contrast? Or what are some of the things maybe people
in your building have been talking about in terms of online learning this year?
It's been interesting and in particular, the dynamic of our district has changed significantly.
We are 275 students K through 12 under one roof. That is our brick and mortar. And then
we are now over 1500 students in our virtual academy. So that dynamic alone has been a
huge shift for us. But one of the things that we've seen here is, and particularly moving
forward, the opportunity for us to partner directly with KYVA in offering courses to
our students that we otherwise wouldn't be able to. In a district as small as ours, a
lot of those sort of, I don't know, outside of the core subjects, it's difficult for us
to offer because we don't have the numbers to justify having a business or technology
or agriculture or whatever teacher on staff. But KYVA does because they serve so many students.
So that's been one of the big pieces of excitement here for us is just the opportunities that
it has opened up for our students working here in person.
And Tim, I want to bring you into the conversation. You and I have known each other for a while
now. You had a long and distinguished career as an innovative school superintendent in
the state of Kentucky. You know, I remember talking with you several years ago about digital
learning. You have a background in asynchronous learning. My guess would be you got really
excited when you had an opportunity to become involved with Kentucky Virtual Academy.
Yes, Greg, I did. And I remember a conversation that I think it was in 2018. And we were talking
about, you know, the innovation and the work within school districts. And it's just amazing
to see this program take off and grow like it has.
And you know, as we think about offering online learning, you know, I think everyone was in
panic mode whenever schools were forced to teach in that manner during the pandemic.
Looking in the rearview mirror now, I think it created a lot of unique opportunities we
have to kind of, as the podcast would indicate, to reimagine learning, reimagine schools.
And what's unique about Kentucky Virtual Academy is there are 120 counties in Kentucky, and
you're pulling school students from all 120 counties. And so it really becomes this huge
melting pot, if you will, throughout the state of Kentucky. Sally, how has, talk a little
bit about beginning enrollment and how it has exploded and what kind of unique situations
that has created for you as the building principal?
Absolutely. We started on the first day of school with under 300 students. And within
a couple of months, we were at 800. By Christmas, we were at 1200. And then by February, we're
at 15 plus, 1500. I think we settled on 1563. Then in March, we had more students want to
apply. I think we had over 300, like 350 more kids wanted to come in, but we were at capacity.
We just didn't have the teaching staff to meet the needs of all those students. And
so the challenges really has been the exponential growth and how do we serve them and hire teachers
fast enough to be able to provide the coursework at the rigor that we want them to with the
higher expectations. So that's been one of the biggest challenges that we've experienced.
But it's a good challenge. Being a principal, I've been a principal of an online school
before and it was a much smaller endeavor. So the fact that we grew so fast was really
exciting. It's like, wow, obviously, Kentucky really wanted this. Kentucky really needed
this. This is what the families wanted. And so it's been wonderful being a part of and
a privilege of being a part of that growth and filling that need for our students in
Kentucky.
And you know, I think the state of Kentucky has been a leader in whether you call it online
learning, remote learning, digital learning. I remember, Tim, when you were superintendent
at Osley County, you were one of the first to really kind of adopt that non-instructional,
those non-instructional days virtually. So did you feel like you were, what's the term,
did you feel like you were out promoting Kentucky Virtual Academy when you went out and talked
to people? I know this group had to go out and appear before the state legislature's
education committee. Was it a hard sell to get this approved, Tim?
Well, I think us going there helped me tremendously because I had been there before on numerous
occasions talking to legislators about the innovation that can take place in public schools.
And as a small school district superintendent, we started the Snow Pilot project back in
2013. And so KTE tried to do some things that really wrapped their arms around innovative
work. And we did receive some support and recognitions of being an innovative school
district in the state of Kentucky, which there were only seven at the time. So we felt like
we were doing something vastly unique, but yet at the same point in time, when I jumped
on board with KYBA in late September, I felt like this was in my wheelhouse. And I felt
like that what we had done in little old Owsley County could be done and magnified even more
so across the state. And to me, the difference was having live instruction and then having
independent work with teacher support is exactly what we did during the pandemic. And it worked
out extremely well, but it was a model. It was just something that was there. And I felt
like that based on my research from asynchronous learning, that is the right way to do business
in terms of digital learning.
Yeah, and I think that's well said. And I think it's important to note that the teachers
that are working for Kentucky Virtual Academy are all certified teachers in Kentucky. And
so there's a thorough vetting process that this group goes through. I know Sally's interviewed
so many people over the last year and really quality teachers, quality staff. But Keith,
what I find very interesting is we're not just teaching math, science and English. We're
teaching PE, we're teaching art, we're teaching all the different humanities. Have you been
surprised at just the level of interest and the enrollment boom that you've seen over
the last even over the last three or four months?
It has far exceeded anything I ever expected. When I first started talking with Randall
with Stride K-12, he showed me numbers, projections that they had. And he was saying, "I think
we'll be at 600 kids by Christmas and we could end up at over a thousand kids." And I just
kind of like, "Yeah, whatever." But oh my goodness. And I think that is the key. What
you just said, Greg, is we offer, it is a full curriculum. It is not, you know, anything
you could do brick and mortar, we're doing at KYVA quite frankly. You're not missing
out on any real opportunities that you would have if you attended a brick and mortar school.
And I think that has been the phenomenal difference. And again, that's exactly what I was looking
for just in my search for something different for our students was, you know, I don't want
to just give them a canned selection of courses and here you go work through this and, you
know, hopefully you pass. I want them to have a teacher. I want them to have all those opportunities
that other students would have if they were in person. So it's really been phenomenal
and far exceeded my expectations.
And Sally, I remember having a conversation with you early on when I first found out about
Kentucky Virtual. And you made it very clear to point out that there are some misconceptions
about what we're doing. We're not a home school. We're not a charter school. We're a public
school, just like all the other public schools in Kentucky. Why has that been such an important
message for you as the principal?
People have a misconception that, oh, all I have to do is I'm going to get some work.
I'm just going to complete my work and I'm never going to see a teacher maybe once or
twice a week. You know, the rigor is going to be really not there. I'm just going to
be able to do the bare minimum and get through. That is a misconception, not necessarily by
all of our students, but by people out there in the community, even some of the teachers
who have come and they've interviewed and they ask, what does the day look like? I go
think of a brick and mortar schedule and there you go. That's what you're going to get. Kids,
we have a homeroom first period and then they go throughout the day where they attend class
connect sessions. That's what we call our live instruction every period of the day.
Now, our periods are a little longer knowing that only half of the time they're doing live
instruction and then think about it when you're in a brick and mortar school. You know, the
teachers teaching, they do their lesson and then the kids start working on projects. They
start working on assignments and the teachers walking around talking to them. That second
half is that independent work where kids go offline and that's when they start doing their
work, but they still get that live instruction. And that has been the big misconception is
that we have minimal live instruction that how are you going to address also the needs
of our students with special needs? How are you addressing the needs of our kids with
504s? How are you addressing the students with ES that are learning English as their
second language? All of those services are provided and a lot of people don't realize
that, oh, you can provide all those. In fact, when we were at the legislature, one of the
representative asked me, well, how do you serve a special ed student in an online school?
I go, just like you would in an in-person. Our special ed teacher goes into the general
ed classroom and provide services. Also, we do pull out services where they get that individual
or small group instruction. And the reason why I didn't want them to know that it was
a homeschool program is homeschool means it's being taught by the parent. These students
are being taught by a Kentucky certified teacher who's quality qualified to teach that the
subjects that they are had been assigned. So that's why it's really important that they
know the difference. And the charter school thing is we are not our school. We are an
88 school of Cloverport. We belong to Cloverport. We are Cloverport. And it's nice to have that
affiliation with an actual school district within the state of Kentucky. So kids know
that they do belong to the school system here.
So if a teacher is hired, they are actually a an employee of the Cloverport School District.
So, Keith, how did that how did that transition really create added pressure maybe on your
central office staff and some of the planning that that you have to do because almost overnight,
you know, you tripled your staff size.
It has been we have experienced growing pains unlike any other at the at the district level
this year. And it's a good thing. And fortunately, I have a staff that was willing to bear that
burden and power through. But definitely, we have had to add pieces this past school
year to kind of basically handle the volume of hiring and so forth that we've had to do.
And fortunately, Stride K-12 has been a good partner and supporter in that process and
understanding, you know, as we've had to grow our capacity as a district in order to be
able to handle just the HR side of things alone and payroll and things like that. We've
adapted well. I won't say it hasn't had its challenges, but we've adapted well. It's been
great. You know, we've we've we're looking for ways to better connect our in-person staff
with the virtual staff just because, you know, that's new to us for I always joke, you know,
we've 150 years we've been on an island by ourselves sort of and now we have these, you
know, mysterious co-workers out there that that don't see each other all the time. And
to know and that's another benefit that wasn't just for students in opening KYVA, but for
our teachers as well. You know, our here, we basically have one of every class in person.
You know, we have one kindergarten teacher, one first grade teacher and so forth. Well,
we can now start working on connecting them with KYVA's primary teachers so they have
some some in-district partners that they can kind of talk with and bounce ideas off of
and things like that. Then we've not had that before. So so we're excited about that as
well.
And Tim, I want to tap into your 30 plus years of school leadership experience. You know,
we know all of us as professional educators that brick and mortar schools, not for everybody
and to have an alternative route, if you will, for kids that maybe have social emotional
issues dealing with anxiety. Some kids are dealing with bullying. Why is it so important
to have these type of options available as we continue to have enrollment opportunities
for kids to enroll in KYVA?
I think the platform and the space in which KYVA exists affords students and parents further
opportunities in public education. I think it allows, I don't think I know it allows
parents who are saying that their kids are getting bullied at school. And I had that
as a superintendent. And you go in and you dig and you dig and you try to find and you
try to problem solve and try to figure it out. And you know what, sometimes it was the
kid that was claiming they were getting bullied was the bully. So it eliminates a lot of things
like that. I'm not saying that, you know, like a kid feels like they're getting bullied.
They may feel that way. But sometimes they're a bigger part of the problem. But it eliminates
that because these kids are, they're in the space of virtual education that provides them
safety and the parents as well. And I think it's a public education school system does
what it can. And I know there's a tremendous number of superintendent friends out there
that that, you know, they spend so much time trying to track down and go in rabbit holes
and try to find solutions to help solve student problems. But sometimes it's about exhausting,
just to say the least. And from a small school perspective, I know that's, you know, we had
to do that a lot. Maybe in larger school districts, they did. But I think it gives kids and parents
a sense of relief that there is this option out there for them. And I think it allows,
again, for the public school perspective, it's a way to eliminate a lot of those issues,
whether they be perceived or in reality of what learning should be about for a student
in grades K through 12.
And Sally asks the building principal, and again, this was the very first year. And so
there were some bumps in the road along the way and and some changes that I'm sure are
on the horizon. What kind of feedback did you get from parents? Can you share any conversations
that really helped you understand why KYVA needs to be in place?
Absolutely. A lot of I mean, I've had so many different conversations. Many of the parents
say, you know, my student wasn't engaged. I get the bully question or the bully scenario
all the time. I get the social anxiety all the time. And they just said my child finally
feels they're part of school. They're thriving. They're engaging and having that not having
to fear their safety or, you know, I'm I feel safe. I can go to school. I don't have to
worry about am I going to get picked on? Am I going to get name called? I can actually
concentrate on teaching. And so I mean, on learning. So my students, that's what they're
telling me. I also have parents telling me, you know, my child was on a bus for an hour
and a half every day. And now they can get up at a normal time. I don't have to worry
about, you know, what time are they going to get home? Are they going to get home safely?
In fact, I talked to one 11th grader. He came for ACT testing and he says, I am so happy.
He said, I was so tired. Mrs. Johnson always being on that bus. He goes, I live out in
the holler and it was an hour and a half there and an hour and a half back. And I was exhausted
every day. He goes, I'm just so excited to be in school now and not have to be so tired
all the time. And that made my, that, that filled my heart because it's like, we are
finally, they're finally getting an option where they can be happy and safe. And also
they're getting a great education and this student, he's going to be a pilot one day.
And he goes, I feel like I'm ready for it with the education I'm getting at KYBA. I've
had families who have had medical issues. They said, you know, my kid missed so much
school because of they just couldn't be in person because of their help and they missed
so much school. Well, because of the program here, their student is able to again, be part
of school and to develop some relationships because all of our teachers try to give them
some social time and where they can develop those relationships with the students and
the students can develop relationships with them. One thing we're really looking forward
to next year is offering more clubs for them to participate in, as well as some in-person
opportunities for social, and they will be regional activities where, you know, we will,
we have right now over 10 testing sites where students go for in-person testing. We're going
to use some of those same facilities, hopefully, to also provide some in-person social activities
so kids can get to know each other and kind of feel like they're part of that school community.
So, if you're in Kentucky and you're listening to this podcast episode, you can go to the
Kentucky Virtual Academy website at kyva.k12.com. You can also go to the Cloverport Independent
School District website and get information there on how to enroll. And if maybe you're
in another state and you have an interest in creating your own virtual academy, you
could certainly connect with our guest here. Maybe they will have some words of wisdom
as to how you can go down that road and create your own virtual academy. So, guys, it's been
a great conversation. Keith, I'll close with you and Tim. First for you, Keith, what are
you most excited about looking into the future as to what KYVA can become?
I think we can definitely become the central virtual academy in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.
We kind of are already as de facto, but I feel like we have shown the ability to provide
a phenomenal education to students in a virtual setting. And I think we can definitely become
the leader in that regard in producing fantastic students through our program.
And Tim, what is the pitch that you would give other superintendents, not only in Kentucky,
but around the country, about any concerns they have about online learning or a virtual
academy of this sort?
Well, I would challenge superintendents primarily to really evaluate their programs and how
those programs are actually working and our students learning through those programs at
a level that the expectation is the same in a brick and mortar building and do some comparisons,
do some work, figure this out. It's a lot of work. There's nothing easy. But I know
a lot of superintendents have been concerned that they might have lost some students. I've
heard that. I've heard it from a multitude of folks. But I think when I hear that, I
would have to ask myself, what are we doing as a school district if I'm a superintendent
of? Why are our kids leaving? What are we not providing to those students? So I would
look at programming first and then people, obviously, who's working those programs and
making sure that the absolute best people that you have are doing this work because
it's challenging. It's not easy and it's not the same as being in brick and mortar.
But there is an excitement out there that a lot of teachers are wanting to move towards,
as we've seen through the over 100 and gee, I don't even know how many interviews we've
sat in on this year so far. It's been overwhelming just to see some excitement there in public
education. Well, congratulations, guys, on a great first year. There's a lot to be proud
of in what you have accomplished. And I know there are big things to come. But folks, you
want to check out Kentucky Virtual Academy. It's going to be one of the leading, if not
one of the top virtual academy K-12 schools in the country before you know it. So keep
an eye on them and follow what they're doing. And if you're a teacher that has a high comfort
level of teaching online, Sally Johnson, the principal, would love to hear from you, Sally.
So maybe you can talk about how folks can actually apply and become part of KYVA.
Absolutely. They can apply by going to the Clover Independent School District's website.
And there there is an employment tab. Once they click on that, you'll see the positions
that are for KYVA. There's also positions for the in-person school. So make sure that
you are clicking on the KYVA positions. This year, just as a note, we had over 132 interviews.
We hired for the 24-25 an additional 56 teachers. So next year, we will have 102 teachers at
Kentucky Virtual. So we're real excited. Well, thanks for your time, guys. Great conversation
and have a wonderful summer. You too. Thanks, Greg. I appreciate your time today. Thank
you, Greg. Thank you, Greg. Keep up the great work. I called you Steve.
So that's a wrap on this episode of the Reimagine Schools podcast. As always, thanks for listening
and be sure to like, follow and share wherever you get your favorite podcast episodes. And
again, if you would give me a follow on Twitter, I'd love to connect with you. You can find
me on all social media at Dr. Greg Goins. Also hope you can visit my website. You go
to reimagine schools now dot com. You'll find information there about leadership coaching.
And if you need a speaker for your next conference or event, you know, hit me up. I would love
to talk with you. And you can always find me at Dr. Greg Goins at gmail dot com. A special
thanks goes out to my guests this week and for everyone that continues to support the
podcast. And until next time, folks, keep fighting for change in your schools.