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Welcome to the Parallel Entrepreneur, where we dive into the minds of entrepreneurs

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who push beyond the limits of a single business.

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Learn how these visionaries invite creative synergies to flow between multiple

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and oftentimes diverse enterprises simultaneously.

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Whether you're just starting out or managing multiple ventures,

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you already think outside the box.

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And this podcast will inspire you to recognize and tap into the power of parallel entrepreneurship.

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Welcome to The Parallel Entrepreneur. I'm Mark Cleveland, where today our conversation

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is with the founder and CEO of JourneyTrack.io, Anya Rodriguez.

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She's pioneering a customer's first enterprise-grade SaaS experience management platform.

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I know I said a lot, but I love those words, enabling organizations to understand,

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optimize, and prioritize their customer experience.

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By way of a brief introduction, the experience she's drawing from,

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for almost two years, Anya was a human factors engineer at Pratt & Whitney.

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She spent seven years consulting with IBM on customer experience and branding,

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and then at the helm of her own consulting company,

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16 years ago, she started Key Lime Interactive, where she drove innovation in

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customer experience research and development.

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Now chairwoman of the board, she understands how brands struggle to deliver

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the seamless journeys that customers demand across physical and digital channels,

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geographies, demographics, and more.

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In this episode, our featured parallel entrepreneur, Anya Rodriguez,

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will share how she recognized the opportunity to start JourneyTrack almost four years ago.

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Welcome, Anya, to the parallel entrepreneur. Thank you, Mark.

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It's great to be here today. You know, I feel most alive when I'm building something new.

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Give me a sense of what makes you feel most alive and what fuels your passion.

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I feel most alive when people really have a good experience with whatever product or service.

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It just makes me, you know, just feel happy and knowing that they can have a great experience.

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I also feel most alive when I am selling and beating my competitors.

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We talked about that earlier. I mean, literally, it felt like I was talking to a gladiator trainer.

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She was like, I want to get in there and mix it up. Tell me more about that.

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You're beating your competitors. How and why?

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Yeah, we're the newest kid in the block. And, you know, we really relied on,

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you know, all my years of experience to build this along with a lot of team

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members here and our customers.

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We had 15 enterprise customers really work with us to create that at the beginning,

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right, over four years, five years ago at this point.

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And I just feel we now have like something that is amazing. I feel like we are

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probably the best experience out there. We know we beat our competitors because

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ours is the easiest one to use.

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It really fits our mental models. It's really neat to demand.

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So it feels good to be like the youngest kid and the one that's beating everybody.

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Now it's like the first horse in the race, if you will. Yeah.

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Fastest technology, the greatest user experience, and you're actually coaching

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your clients in their product design, in their customer delivery on how to serve,

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meet, and exceed brand expectations that they're trying to develop into their product, right?

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Yeah, right on. That's exactly right. So yeah, we're doing it really,

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honestly, not as a consultancy, but really just a value add.

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We are highly ranked on G2, the highest against even our competitors.

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That's where our customers tell you what they think. And it's really around

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our customer experience that we deliver to our customers and giving them education,

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giving them help when they need it.

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Quite frankly, I think that's what makes us most successful.

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We listen to our customers more than our competitors.

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There's a nugget. A common theme in all my interviews with parallel entrepreneurs

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like yourself is the importance of listening.

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Tell our listeners a story about how your customer journey mapping system opened

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the eyes of decision makers.

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And what was the nugget that they picked up when they were listening to you? Yeah.

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Yeah. There's a lot of really neat things. One of the early things that we did,

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which is we're the only one that has it integrated as we built in a workshopping

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capability so people can run workshops in the tool instead of running it in

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other platforms that are more whiteboarding solutions.

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And what that did for them, it literally saves them about 50% of post-processing of all that workshop.

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That really right there saves them about anywhere from 40 to 80 hours, depending on who it is.

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And that's amazing. At a click of a button, we could just solve that problem.

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That was the beginning of what we could do easily to help them.

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More recently, we built this whole like impact feature, which

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one of the biggest things that happens in customer experience

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is customer experience can be thought of as like

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a you know like a feely kind of you know metric it's

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not really like revenue which is more business outcome the one

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thing people struggle with is tying it to roi right and

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this and this whole field and so we've built in a what's called a journey impact

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where it can actually trace from when someone gets some insight they've run

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through customer interview or whatever it is to the point of they actually create

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change in the organization by doing some whatever fixes actions they're going

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to do to the actual impact that it has on whatever metrics,

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whether they're customer experience metrics or revenue metrics,

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and they can trace that from the beginning to the end.

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So that's amazing because that starts to show that they, they're like their

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value of that team, which is something that I think has been missed.

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And a lot of people talk about it and they're like a lot of the C-suite talks

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about wanting to have a great customer experience, but they don't do a good

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job of actually delivering on that or knowing how to really what that means.

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And so the tool is actually going to, is basically helping them do that.

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And we're going to keep adding to it as we progress through that.

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So let me reflect on that. You're creating a workshop environment,

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which everybody needs to do more workshops.

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You make it easy and faster, which means they can listen better.

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And then you're tying the action steps that fall out of that.

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Now they could do that at scale, by the way. They could just do it and do it

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and do it and do it, right?

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And then you're tying that back to metrics that can point to the ROI.

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So there's something that occurs to me. We know that entrepreneurs who've done

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it more than once, like yourself, become serial entrepreneurs.

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And in your case, they might do it in more than one company at the same time.

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You're a parallel entrepreneur.

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So I think our listeners are interested in what are some of the greatest lessons

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on this journey that you've learned? So let's see.

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When I started thinking about building this journey track, right,

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I was running the consultancy. and.

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I do it differently because the first time I started my first company,

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I did it just pure, pure sweat and blood. Pure guts and...

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It was going to be a $500 start, right?

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And fast forward, that grew into a huge company.

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But one of the things I kept doing and I thought I could do is I thought I could

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straddle both companies, right?

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And so I held on, I think, a little too long trying to straddle two companies.

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Whereas if I was to do it again, I would have hired my executive team that I

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have now running the first company sooner or promoted the folks I was going

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to promote and started to let go of that vine a lot earlier than I did because

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I feel that I probably held on too long and I could have,

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what I realized now is the team is thriving without me.

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I thought I had to be there, right? So it's every entrepreneur thinks that we

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have to do this, have to be here.

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And so long as I kind of set them up and they've been under me for a while,

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they've been able to thrive really well.

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So I probably could have let go of the line much sooner.

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I would have done that. I probably would have been better off in general because

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I think I was stressing running two companies.

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And it's not impossible to run two companies. You're doing it,

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but you're doing it through empowerment and you're doing it through recruiting

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and placing the right people in the right teams.

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We've had a conversation emerge in this podcast where people are talking about,

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I've got several plates spinning.

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One plate is spinning and the other plate's spinning really well,

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but one of them's a little wobbly.

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And your attention goes and you pay it to the wobbly one, spin it back up a

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little bit, make a culture adjustment, make a recruiting adjustment,

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make a customer journey map change, whatever that might be in your skillset and your talent.

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And then you have three plates spinning. You have two plates spinning right

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now really, really well, and your customers love you.

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Now you've got a mature consultancy that's knocking it out of the park and you've

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got this four-year-old journey track IO.

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I can tell what made you unique early was this grit and competitive nature you have.

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How do you scale the second company and make sure that you keep the edge that

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made you and your business unique?

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I think it's about hiring the right team, right? And it's been like,

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so this time around, I feel I haven't gotten 100% right. Let's just call it for that.

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But at least I had a really great hire for my head of product and a really great

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hire for my CMO, which have been my rocks during this whole time, right?

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And as long as you have two really good people behind you that can really sort

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of take and operationalize things more than, as a CEO, you're not necessarily

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an operational person. You're more the visionary.

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You're the one that's more salesy or that's typically sort of the reality.

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And so you need the folks that can execute, that can really pull together. And I have that.

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And so being able to identify, it's been for both companies.

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I've always had two people at least that I, that I could really highly count

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on to help me back me up and just, you know, be there.

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Right. And so I have that for both companies and, and then that,

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you know, obviously I have more than that, but it's just, you at least need,

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in my head, I think you need at least two people.

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One would be too little because then it's almost like too much risk,

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but as long as you have two and they're able to kind of work and divide and

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kind of, kind of pull, then they're able to then take it to the next level.

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So people are key. You are investing in those people.

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People have invested in you. Tell us who are your mentors and how did they influence you?

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So I have had, I've had a couple mentors. I find for me, I do a lot of these

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like, you know, entrepreneur leader groups, if you will, where there's forums and things like that.

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So I've had that in different phases of my growth. Early with Key Lime,

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it was the Golden Stacks, 10,000 Small Businesses.

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Then I did Women's President's Organization, which was really great at that

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time locally. So I had a group of women that didn't necessarily have exactly

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my background, the same type of company, but they had the same issues.

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No matter what type of business you have, it boils down typically to money issues,

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people issues mostly, and then other sort of issues.

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But typically people are sort of a big conversation wherever you're at.

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Goes back to what we were just saying, having the right people in the right

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seats and knowing how to operationalize things.

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So what I would say, I didn't have necessarily one mentor in the first sort

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of journey on this entrepreneur thing. I had a lot of groups of people in different pockets.

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I was also part of Young Entrepreneurs and this and that. So I had a lot of different versions.

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The second time around, I've had more though. I've had a different version of this, right?

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So I still have those type of networks, but now I have specialized folks who are helping me.

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This is the first time I raised capital. This is the first time I'm doing sort

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of like a different playbook.

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When you're in your venture capital money, it's a totally different thing than

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when your boss, if you will, right? And no one to be accountable to.

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But I actually enjoy that. I actually like being accountable and having folks

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that I can rely on and lean into because what I find so awesome is each of the

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different VCs that are part of my cap table,

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they give me someone that I can play into,

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that I can lean into, hey, I have questions on this and this and this.

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And if they don't know it, then they ask one of their other companies or they know somebody.

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And that's amazing because they're they're also part of your story so they want

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to see you succeed so it's very different than when you're with a mentor that

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they may introduce you to somebody else but here they have like they have a vested interest too,

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This is, it sounds like you're building a wisdom network. And so tell me,

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how do you implement and measure mentoring in your companies?

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Is there a formal process for that?

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Yeah. So we do, in fact, and we also do it, we do it internally and then we

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do it externally as well.

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So internally we have, in the journey track, it's a much smaller sort of playbook

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than Key Lime, right? But but we have not only do we have like,

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you know, sort of depending on who is who's a manager, some mentoring level happening there.

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We also have sometimes external consultants like we have a sales consultants

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that that works with my sales team to help to coach them, to mentor them,

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to make sure that they're sort of rehearsing and doing, you know, role playing of sorts.

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And practicing, practicing for the game, right? Practicing for the game.

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And then and Keyline is the same. And we also give back to the community.

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We do like we just did one recently and we basically open it up and we say,

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hey, do you want to sign up to learn about how to become a researcher or how

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to become a manager or how to go into consulting?

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And we have people sign up who really want to learn about the career or like

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are switching over or looking for things that they come in and they sign up.

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We do that, you know, at least once or twice a year. So that's more of a bigger play.

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And I get people off to do that, to do, to be part of that.

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So if you're running a startup and you're building,

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you're actually considered an influencer and a pioneer in this phenomenon where

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our culture is finally really starting to see really spectacular results from

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spectacular female leaders.

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And you're a part of that trend. It's been a long time coming.

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Tell me, how do you find your inspiration? That's another expression of your

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competitive instincts. How are you finding success, getting capital,

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building this wisdom network, and being the leader that you are?

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Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's fun. It's different. It's harder than I ever expected. It is.

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They say it's hard and they say that 2% of women get it. It feels a lot less,

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honestly, from where I sit.

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I was just at an event recently and I had, I had met, I had met this VC one

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time at a dinner and this is that type of person I am.

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It's saying this, but it's kind of funny because she, she introduced me like this on this panel.

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She's like, I met her at a dinner. She said, hey, if you're ever in New York, call me. I said, okay.

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When you say that to me, you better be careful because I will find you when

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I'm in New York. And so I'm in New York, sure enough.

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And I got there and I said, hey, I'm in New York. Tell me who should I meet?

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And she was walking in the street. She basically was like, who is this?

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I had met her a couple of weeks before.

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And I was like, yeah, we met at dinner. She's like, oh, okay.

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So she actually did follow through and set up like a meeting or two for me.

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But she remembers that because sometimes people will tell you things and they

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think they're just saying it, you know, passing just to be nice.

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And if for me, you say that to me, you better hope that I'm not in New York

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because if I am, I'm going to take you up on that.

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And so that's the, I think you need to have that. You need to be,

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have a little bit of gutsy.

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If people offer you something, be willing to take them upon it.

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Yeah. I think people are trying to help each other far more than we know.

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Wouldn't that have been a shame had she extended that invitation to you and

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then your self-talk said, oh, she doesn't really mean it. I'm not going to do that.

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And And isn't it great that she extended that invitation to you?

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You seized it, followed up, and then you're in New York and you had a wonderful time.

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Contrast that with what does a typical day look like for you?

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The startup, you know, I wouldn't call you a startup.

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I'd call you an upstart at four years old and you're beating everybody.

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But what does a typical day look like for you as the CEO of JourneyTry?

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I spend a lot of time now just working on partnerships, meeting all their agencies

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and folks, maybe top level executives sometimes, but just really having conversations

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with leaders, trying to align with them, understand what they're doing.

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And then just, I'm still involved in some levels, certain sales.

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We have some pretty large fortune hundred, if you will, that we're working with.

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Those types of things sometimes involve a C-suite executive.

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So I'm in those conversations, but yeah, I'm, I think for me,

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I'm just really focused right now on, And, you know, I think a better way to,

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certain ways to grow is to find people who are in your field,

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who are thought leaders and just kind of keep aligning with those.

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There's at least 25 in my field that I need to know. And so I've been working

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through getting to know all 25.

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And that's not just one conversation. That's usually talking to them at least

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once a month. And that takes some of my time.

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I'm curious, you're operating at a high level of energetic expression.

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When you feel depleted, how do you restore your energy?

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Have three younger kids and so I spend time with them

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I have a cute little seven-year-old who is

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just what's with eight and he's he always tells

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me mom it's the best day ever and that kind of

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stuff just he's such a positive energy I just got to go sit with him for five

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minutes and I'm like yay it's the best thing ever but um and then my middle

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child is just like super creative I just enjoy them and my 16 year old this

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is now becoming her own person and you know I just spend time with them.

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And then I like to cycle, ride my bike.

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I like to do Pilates and things like that. And it helps me kind of center a little bit.

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And then I've been starting some meditation practices with my husband and that's

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just newer to us. But, you know, they always say to do that.

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I was one of those that didn't think too much of that, except now I feel like

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as, you know, just all the stressors come to life, you kind of need a little bit of that.

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And so we've been starting to do some practices there. Fantastic.

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I find that the meditative practice helps me calm my mind and then my mind solves

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problems without the gibberish.

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I do yoga with my wife, hot yoga every day.

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And it has been such a blessing. It's a moving meditation and it helps me find

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inspiration. Do you find inspiration?

283
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It sounds like you find inspiration in your kids and inspiration in your team,

284
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increasingly perhaps in a meditative practice.

285
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How does inspiration, how does that come to you?

286
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Yeah, I love when I'm with people. I think for me, it's people.

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Recently, we just met up as a team we're all remote and and

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so we met up and it's just those moments that i'm just

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like together i think i find i find energy with

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people i'm i'm definitely an extrovert although i can be an end of

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virtue like that's why i think i like selling too because i love the

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connection i feel like you know selling is just about

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building connections not about really selling it's just about people like really

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getting to know you and then they buy because it not because they like you because

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they want they want to be you know part of what you're doing so you uh You're

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building a momentum in JourneyTrack,

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and you're building a team,

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but you're also describing the capital raise as that was a challenge.

299
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Tell us a little bit about your advisors in this growth, capital growth process,

300
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and how do they play in assisting you, putting the right other investors together? other.

301
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We always know that toxic investors are a problem.

302
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That's obvious. But great investors could lead to other great investors.

303
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How has that played out for you, Anya?

304
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When I first started, that's interesting. One of the powerhouse women who sold

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over a hundred million dollar company, who is one of my mentors and one of those

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group of women, she basically sat me down.

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She's like, oh, so you're thinking of doing this, this raising.

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And I'm like, yeah, she's like, she's like, maybe, you know,

309
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maybe you should have, quite frankly, maybe you should have a guy do this,

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you know, just because it's seeing what she had seen right in her version of it.

311
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I think that was her lesson to me. And she's like, maybe you should have,

312
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my husband's a Wharton grad, you know, he's a CFO.

313
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So, you know, maybe you should have Alex, my husband, do it.

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And while I love my husband and he's my partner in crime, for me,

315
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I was like, no way. I'm not doing that.

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I'll tell you this. I've had many other women, even VCs tell me that they would

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agree with that statement.

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And I think there's certain levels that I think I would have raised a lot sooner,

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quicker, but I feel like when I found Nitin, it was just perfect.

320
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I think he was the perfect partner to find for that, to like ease all those

321
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anxieties that I had with doing pitches with a lot of VCs that were just like,

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if you looked at the companies they invested, it was just purely men, men, men.

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And you see that and you think there's no way that is really happening.

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It is so stacked against you, you know, as a woman.

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So when I found and he opened his sort of folks in, I was able to find another

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VC that came into the deal.

327
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Once I had him locked in, another one came in as well.

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You know, it was hard to find the first one, right? The lead investor, right?

329
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And then there you find those that were really just, you know,

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there was a couple of VCs that are like, yeah, yeah, when you come and find

331
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your lead, we'll come back and we'll be, we're interested.

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And you sort of mark them as a soft yes. But as soon as I did.

333
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And they're like, well, maybe not.

334
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And then it goes back to the same things. I was just like, wow, this is so interesting.

335
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And what was really frustrating for me is I'm used to closing multimillion dollar

336
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deals, right? That's not crazy for me, right?

337
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And so I thought it was going to be similar to just winning a multimillion dollar account.

338
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I thought, well, this is just like what I've done in the past.

339
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And raising was about 3 million. It was tough.

340
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It was tough. I was raising during a time where everything slowed down, right?

341
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Everybody stopped raising at the same speed like I had. I had done it in 21,

342
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22 when I first formed the company.

343
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Um i would have been in a better position but back

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then i thought oh i put about a million dollars of

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our own money into this right and i thought i

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want to hold on to as long i already had like big clients like google using

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the platform so i thought i wanted to hold on as long as i could to go have

348
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a really strong seat but what happened in 23 20 you know when 22 23 if you will

349
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is that you know everything shifted right and so that made it really hard i

350
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think especially to raise during that time.

351
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And now it's even probably worse because everybody's struggling with raising,

352
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even the VCs are struggling to raise capital right now.

353
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What a terrific answer. This is almost a teaser for one of our future episodes

354
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with Nitin Ray, the CEO and founder of Elevate Capital.

355
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And as I was reflecting on my earlier comment about him, he likes his thesis.

356
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And it's fascinating is I like to find underestimated entrepreneurs.

357
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And you were one of those. And we'll talk to it and soon.

358
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In the meantime, clearly you have built a team with advisors and investors around these principles.

359
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Talk to us about your North Star. What would you say is Tanya Rodriguez's North

360
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Star and your principles around which you are building and maintaining multiple

361
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organizations at the same time?

362
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,880
So for this company, the North Star is really, it goes back to that whole ROI

363
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,060
of CX perspective, right? And providing value.

364
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,400
The North Star for the other company is to really humanized customer experience

365
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and get research and that perspective, um, back to customers and understanding of their customers.

366
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To me, the North star of it all, right.

367
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Is, um, it's really to, to build, um, to build, to build impact.

368
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I think when I first was a younger entrepreneur, I was about,

369
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I think it was more about like, can I do this?

370
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And then I was like, can I get to 5 million and not, you know,

371
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can I get to 10 and whatever that version of it was.

372
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Now it's about building impact building something

373
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that really shifts and really helps

374
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uh people you know connect and be together

375
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because if you think about what the platform at its very core does it

376
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allows teams to connect to to to visualize together to humanize what that you

377
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know end-to-end experience is supposed to be like and i think that that's probably

378
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my north star right there it's it's about humanizing the experience it's about

379
00:23:56,660 --> 00:24:01,700
it's about creating like change and building the next cloud for us to experience.

380
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:09,820
Yeah. So the big SWOT is listening and participating in the little things like

381
00:24:09,820 --> 00:24:14,840
what are you committed to doing a little bit less of right now or just a little bit more of?

382
00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:19,220
I find that those little course corrections as you gain wisdom and insight and

383
00:24:19,220 --> 00:24:23,020
experience with your business, what are you trying to do a little bit more of

384
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or a little bit less of right now?

385
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:31,180
More of strategic setting. I think now we're over getting initial 50 customers.

386
00:24:31,740 --> 00:24:35,680
It's been a while that flew over for that. But now let me step back a little bit here.

387
00:24:35,860 --> 00:24:40,340
So in my world, this is a brand new category of tools called journey management.

388
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There is what they call journey analytics, and then there's journey orchestration.

389
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And then there's a very basic customer journey mapping. So it's almost like

390
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four tiers, the different types of software.

391
00:24:50,380 --> 00:24:55,600
What I did, which is good for listeners to know is I found the wedge into this world, right?

392
00:24:55,660 --> 00:24:58,900
There was still a little bit of a white space because there was competitors,

393
00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:02,160
but they weren't doing a great job as is, right?

394
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:07,260
They were really not meeting enterprise needs. So I found an area of,

395
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:12,820
you know, this sort of ecosystem where it was easy for me to come in as a new player, right?

396
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:19,440
And it wasn't crowded just yet and really sort of set pace and just focus on

397
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,980
really building a great, you know, user interface and customer experience within the app.

398
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,860
So it would be super easy to use and they would sort of push it. Right.

399
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:32,040
And so as I'm wedged in into this sort of ecosystem, there is,

400
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,980
there's now like layering of different types of information my customers want me to create in.

401
00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:41,540
And what's really neat but what's happening is in the U.S.

402
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,720
Especially we're not as mature in our

403
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,740
practices for customer experience whereas Europe and other areas

404
00:25:47,740 --> 00:25:51,660
of the world now I see that there are a lot more in certain ways so what

405
00:25:51,660 --> 00:25:54,980
it what the software is doing it's exact I'm meeting them exactly where they're

406
00:25:54,980 --> 00:25:59,940
at right now but it gives me enough runway where I can build in the other layers

407
00:25:59,940 --> 00:26:03,420
because when people think that they want journey analytics do they think oh

408
00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:07,060
we want something that is able to anticipate what I want next step,

409
00:26:07,180 --> 00:26:08,940
right? The reality is, is.

410
00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:14,740
People haven't even figured out what they're currently doing and what they want it to look like.

411
00:26:15,060 --> 00:26:17,880
So saying that you want to just have something be super personalized,

412
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,440
they're not there yet from like an internal strategy alignment perspective.

413
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,320
So our software meets them and allows them to do that piece of work,

414
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,320
which is giving me enough of that runway so that as we continue to layer and

415
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,680
build in some more integrations and analytics, that will meet them as they sort

416
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:34,620
of move up that maturity.

417
00:26:34,620 --> 00:26:39,820
Now, even the more mature companies, they still need this because they're still

418
00:26:39,820 --> 00:26:41,960
trying to realign and things like that.

419
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:48,160
So it's a really perfect spot to be in as we're evolving in this sort of ecosystem.

420
00:26:48,620 --> 00:26:52,760
Interesting. And you can't have a conversation about technology these days without

421
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,800
referencing AI in some way.

422
00:26:54,920 --> 00:27:00,080
And I've had some conversations with AI experts in my routine practices with

423
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,540
clients, and they're telling me about some of the things that AI can do and can't do.

424
00:27:04,620 --> 00:27:08,620
And yet what I'm hearing you say there might be, regardless of what the tool

425
00:27:08,620 --> 00:27:11,920
would do, if you haven't done your strategic homework, if you haven't really

426
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,280
understood where you are and where your customers are and really where your

427
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:17,700
customers want to be taken,

428
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:23,300
it's difficult to sort of just, you can't throw technology at a human problem.

429
00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:25,540
You have to have processes, right?

430
00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:31,200
Speak a little bit to me about how you see AI serving that role today or how

431
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:37,320
it's on your bench for executing that next level of strategic analysis and how

432
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:38,500
do you bring those things together?

433
00:27:40,050 --> 00:27:45,650
So we're using AI to help accelerate certain tasks that might be time intensive,

434
00:27:45,650 --> 00:27:47,610
that reality as machines can do better.

435
00:27:47,770 --> 00:27:51,910
I think the strategic thinking still has to be thought through by humans.

436
00:27:52,030 --> 00:27:55,150
So I think there's like a human AI sort of version of where things are.

437
00:27:55,470 --> 00:27:59,150
What's interesting, one of our customers, Google, has a case study,

438
00:27:59,270 --> 00:28:02,670
which we have on our website, that talks about how they're using our platform

439
00:28:02,670 --> 00:28:06,470
to help them determine internally when they're going to use AI or not.

440
00:28:06,650 --> 00:28:09,590
So they're building their internal employee journeys, right?

441
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:12,070
Because it's not just customer journeys, it could be employee journeys.

442
00:28:12,410 --> 00:28:16,490
And, you know, trying to be really delicate about when they're going to be using

443
00:28:16,490 --> 00:28:18,230
AI to replace the process.

444
00:28:18,490 --> 00:28:21,410
That's part of people's change management and workforce kind of day to day.

445
00:28:21,530 --> 00:28:24,390
So it's just part of your job that you are holding on to.

446
00:28:24,530 --> 00:28:27,070
And all of a sudden, AI takes over. It's super scary for people.

447
00:28:27,390 --> 00:28:31,830
And so the way that they've done this is they kind of laid out what the employees,

448
00:28:31,970 --> 00:28:33,530
what they do on certain tasks,

449
00:28:33,730 --> 00:28:38,950
and then really identify areas that just is not part of their or day-to-day

450
00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:43,630
that they can use AI, but they've used a tool to sort of identify those areas, right?

451
00:28:43,810 --> 00:28:48,350
And then as they build that, they sort of still measure through time how employee.

452
00:28:48,990 --> 00:28:53,130
Engagement, employee satisfaction, et cetera, et cetera, to see if it's really

453
00:28:53,130 --> 00:28:55,610
sort of really looking at it from a holistic perspective.

454
00:28:55,650 --> 00:28:59,110
Because I think often people just jump and say, well, we could just take over

455
00:28:59,110 --> 00:29:03,630
with this with AI, but there's just so much impact that it could great to just

456
00:29:03,630 --> 00:29:06,490
your culture, to your customer base.

457
00:29:06,770 --> 00:29:11,510
And so you kind of have to balance this. And I think the folks who are taking

458
00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:16,110
a real thoughtful approach to doing this are going to be in a better place than

459
00:29:16,110 --> 00:29:19,770
those that just throw in everything they can just because they can.

460
00:29:20,450 --> 00:29:25,210
It's an easy tool to grab. It's a difficult tool to trust. And it's an incredibly

461
00:29:25,210 --> 00:29:27,050
difficult tool to deploy currently.

462
00:29:27,770 --> 00:29:32,990
Yeah. So your experience back as a human factors engineer at Pratt & Whitney,

463
00:29:32,990 --> 00:29:37,670
I just find that curious. I want to resist going and asking lots of questions

464
00:29:37,670 --> 00:29:40,590
about what a human factors engineer is at Pratt & Whitney.

465
00:29:40,730 --> 00:29:44,870
But I noticed from our conversations, you saw synergies and opportunities,

466
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:47,970
and then you did the research and you started selling research.

467
00:29:47,970 --> 00:29:51,970
You're in the customer experience research business today.

468
00:29:52,190 --> 00:29:58,330
And then now you're in the applied solutions business and you're seeing those synergies play out.

469
00:29:58,490 --> 00:30:02,790
And now what I just heard is you've got customers experimenting and communicating

470
00:30:02,790 --> 00:30:06,290
with you in what their experimentation looks like.

471
00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:10,390
And I have this sort of question that I always want to ask is how do you stay

472
00:30:10,390 --> 00:30:12,210
agile and open to experimentation?

473
00:30:12,330 --> 00:30:16,410
And yet it seems to me like that's the world you live in. And is it a constant

474
00:30:16,410 --> 00:30:17,870
world of experimentation?

475
00:30:18,710 --> 00:30:23,090
Do I have that right? Yeah, you got it exactly right. I love it. I thrive in that.

476
00:30:23,230 --> 00:30:27,890
I think I follow that shiny object, if you will, but I thrive in just exploring

477
00:30:27,890 --> 00:30:29,710
where there's opportunities.

478
00:30:29,810 --> 00:30:32,850
And I'm always just thinking ahead a little bit of the curve,

479
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:35,330
right? I can see things a little bit better in certain ways.

480
00:30:35,730 --> 00:30:40,470
I'm not scared about trying new things. I'm very technology forward.

481
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:41,450
It's in that perspective.

482
00:30:41,670 --> 00:30:45,970
And I think that's what's given us in both companies. and edge, right?

483
00:30:46,110 --> 00:30:50,790
It goes back to the earlier point. We listen and then we figure out how we can

484
00:30:50,790 --> 00:30:52,970
solve that quickly, right? For our customers.

485
00:30:53,170 --> 00:30:56,370
If you do that right, which is, I think, what's helped us a lot through the

486
00:30:56,370 --> 00:30:58,670
years, it helps your customers.

487
00:30:58,770 --> 00:31:02,110
Because at the end, I always say this, you know, if you think about there's

488
00:31:02,110 --> 00:31:05,170
a whole jobs to be done framework and people are like, they have one job at

489
00:31:05,170 --> 00:31:10,250
the end as a consultancy, as a technology company, your job is to basically

490
00:31:10,250 --> 00:31:13,710
make your customer look really great to their bosses,

491
00:31:13,950 --> 00:31:15,990
right? And so as long as you do some version of that.

492
00:31:16,970 --> 00:31:20,090
You're good. And as long as you do it better than they do somewhere else,

493
00:31:20,270 --> 00:31:23,430
you're, you're better off, you know, for me, as long as you're like three or

494
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:26,110
four pages ahead, your competitors are maybe one page ahead,

495
00:31:26,290 --> 00:31:27,110
you got to be three or four.

496
00:31:27,250 --> 00:31:31,410
And as long as you're figuring out what's next step and being very mindful,

497
00:31:31,610 --> 00:31:34,470
you're usually seen and trusted. And as long as you're successful,

498
00:31:34,590 --> 00:31:36,530
you can't just be like running around and muck either.

499
00:31:36,650 --> 00:31:42,010
Let me clarify that. But I think if you, as long as you are strategic enough

500
00:31:42,010 --> 00:31:45,930
to think of all perspectives really quickly, and then think of all the risks

501
00:31:45,930 --> 00:31:49,830
involved and kind of weigh those risks and say, okay, we can shift out this way.

502
00:31:50,090 --> 00:31:53,970
You know, you mentioned that there was some lessons in, had you gone to the

503
00:31:53,970 --> 00:31:59,150
market earlier to raise capital in your startup journey, you might have had

504
00:31:59,150 --> 00:32:00,030
a different experience.

505
00:32:00,230 --> 00:32:06,730
I spent a lot of time in the M&A growth advisory space, and we are always asked

506
00:32:06,730 --> 00:32:08,710
a similar question on the other side of that.

507
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:12,550
Someone will say, hey, Mark, when is it time to sell the business?

508
00:32:12,550 --> 00:32:17,550
And my answer is whenever someone needs it or wants it worse than I do.

509
00:32:17,790 --> 00:32:23,890
And here you are penetrating a new industry, but with established players and

510
00:32:23,890 --> 00:32:25,650
you raised your capital.

511
00:32:25,810 --> 00:32:29,830
You have, I'm sure, an exit plan or you are working toward goals.

512
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:34,830
So what lessons did you learn on the way to this moment that inform how you

513
00:32:34,830 --> 00:32:39,690
decide when it's time to exit and how will you see those signals?

514
00:32:39,950 --> 00:32:42,430
Yeah, that's a really great question, Mark. from.

515
00:32:43,770 --> 00:32:47,130
If you have a successful business, you're always going to be seeked,

516
00:32:47,250 --> 00:32:50,490
especially like investors, private equity, especially the consultancy.

517
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:55,170
And because it's like the older business. And so I'm like way above where I

518
00:32:55,170 --> 00:32:56,090
thought I was going to exit.

519
00:32:56,190 --> 00:33:00,610
How about that? When I first started that consultancy, I thought, oh, I want to get to five.

520
00:33:00,750 --> 00:33:04,250
I want to get to 10. Way above that. Right. So like, what do you do then? Right.

521
00:33:04,430 --> 00:33:09,910
I realized as I matured as an entrepreneur, for me, the things that have to happen,

522
00:33:10,050 --> 00:33:13,270
if I was going to sell that business, I would have to find, like what I felt

523
00:33:13,270 --> 00:33:17,390
would need, I would find the right person, if you will, because it's not about

524
00:33:17,390 --> 00:33:19,530
necessarily needing to sell.

525
00:33:19,670 --> 00:33:22,250
We're in a really good position. So we're not in that combination.

526
00:33:22,270 --> 00:33:24,390
We're like, oh my God, we have to sell and now we're in trouble.

527
00:33:24,830 --> 00:33:28,630
But I would have to find someone who I felt could really take it to the next

528
00:33:28,630 --> 00:33:30,990
level, right? I think that's where it's at, right?

529
00:33:31,150 --> 00:33:35,350
Or my people would be really taken care of. That would be sort of.

530
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,020
To that decision for me, for either company, right?

531
00:33:39,220 --> 00:33:42,740
And for neither company at this point, I'm exactly there just yet,

532
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,840
right? And so for me, I'm still building, especially the second company.

533
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,560
I'm very much at the beginning of the building phase, it feels like.

534
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,940
And so it would have to be, if I was to do anything there, it would have to

535
00:33:53,940 --> 00:33:56,920
be a strategic kind of pull to like create something even bigger,

536
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,760
together align, because I do want to, I want to ring the bell.

537
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:02,760
Let's just call it for one another.

538
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,460
So how do I get there? Sometimes it is a lot about, you know,

539
00:34:07,540 --> 00:34:11,920
having the right merge acquisition or some version of that to get there sooner,

540
00:34:12,140 --> 00:34:14,180
right? Than the longer playbook.

541
00:34:14,700 --> 00:34:19,140
We'll see. I'm still figuring it out. I wonder such a high degree of competence and confidence.

542
00:34:19,420 --> 00:34:24,700
You know, it may not be related to time. I think that's a big piece of my own personal lesson.

543
00:34:24,740 --> 00:34:27,560
I've spent longer in business A than I should have.

544
00:34:27,700 --> 00:34:31,820
I got out of business B sooner than I should have. I didn't ever really have

545
00:34:31,820 --> 00:34:35,280
a time horizon to say, by this date, I'm going to have done that thing.

546
00:34:35,380 --> 00:34:40,620
I do think that might be a pretty typical mistake that people make is putting

547
00:34:40,620 --> 00:34:44,260
artificial deadlines on objectives and outcomes.

548
00:34:44,460 --> 00:34:48,960
And when you recognize it, you know you're there, but you're not in any time

549
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,620
crunch to get anything done.

550
00:34:50,980 --> 00:34:56,940
And I love what I'm learning from you about just this sense of I'm here,

551
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,120
I'm innovating, I'm teaching my people, I'm mentoring my people.

552
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,880
We've got a charitable organization. I enjoy leading that and then recruiting

553
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,660
people to set me free to go take on my next adventure.

554
00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:15,900
So if you could talk to your younger self with this wisdom of today on you,

555
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,460
what's the first thing you'd say to your younger self?

556
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,780
I would have started the second company sooner, for sure.

557
00:35:22,260 --> 00:35:26,420
I would have done that way earlier in that entrepreneurial journey.

558
00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:29,740
In fact, year two, I could have. I had an idea.

559
00:35:30,830 --> 00:35:33,770
I just, I just didn't know how to raise capital. I didn't know any of that.

560
00:35:33,870 --> 00:35:37,930
Right. I think that's what stopped me because I, um, I wasn't there financially

561
00:35:37,930 --> 00:35:42,730
yet to, to do that, to, to get, to sort of start my own sort of first million in, if you will.

562
00:35:43,210 --> 00:35:47,490
But I would have educated myself on how to raise capital earlier.

563
00:35:47,890 --> 00:35:51,290
And a younger version of me would have taken that play a lot sooner because

564
00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:55,570
the, um, the reality is if you do it just, you know, old school,

565
00:35:55,870 --> 00:35:58,290
the way that I built the other business, we had like, well, frankly,

566
00:35:58,350 --> 00:36:00,050
we haven't done any mini activity at all.

567
00:36:00,190 --> 00:36:05,670
So it's all organic growth takes 15, 16 years, you know, to get to a good number, right?

568
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:09,490
I think about what, you know, journey track is already doing in year four.

569
00:36:09,730 --> 00:36:14,310
It's basically equal to the other one, you know, from a valuation perspective.

570
00:36:14,510 --> 00:36:19,590
So net, net, you, you think to yourself, what, you know, why did I burn 15,

571
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:24,070
16 years when I could have done, why did I burn so many years,

572
00:36:24,210 --> 00:36:25,270
right? Just trying to do this.

573
00:36:25,510 --> 00:36:31,610
And granted, yes, I own 95% of that other company, you know, that's down, right?

574
00:36:31,890 --> 00:36:33,990
97, but I'm about to give somebody a couple of shares.

575
00:36:35,190 --> 00:36:38,250
But 95, let's just say of that other company. And if I sell,

576
00:36:38,350 --> 00:36:40,310
that's all my money, not other folks, right?

577
00:36:40,390 --> 00:36:45,930
But I think I could have done it quicker and exited and come out and come in and all that jazz.

578
00:36:46,270 --> 00:36:50,690
I probably could have had at least a hundred million dollar consultancy.

579
00:36:50,850 --> 00:36:51,810
Now I had have done it differently.

580
00:36:52,070 --> 00:36:54,850
If I didn't, I went the slower one, right? I did everything organically.

581
00:36:55,470 --> 00:36:58,410
I don't know. But then there was pros and cons to that too, right?

582
00:36:58,510 --> 00:36:59,890
You learn along the way and.

583
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:06,140
Yeah, I find living in the rearview mirror isn't a whole lot of help because,

584
00:37:06,420 --> 00:37:09,500
you know, you could not, you could have your eyes on the rearview mirror and

585
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:10,660
not in the front windshield.

586
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:16,320
And, you know, the rearview mirror, it sort of informs you that you celebrate

587
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,280
that you're still on the road, you're driving between the lines,

588
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:20,860
you're still headed in your direction.

589
00:37:20,860 --> 00:37:25,220
I think that what I'm hearing that is just motivating the heck out of me,

590
00:37:25,340 --> 00:37:29,960
the whole reason that we put together this parallel entrepreneur vision was

591
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:35,320
that it's important to recognize that we humans are incredibly creative and

592
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,220
you are incredibly creative.

593
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,580
And now with hindsight, you know, you can say to your younger self,

594
00:37:40,700 --> 00:37:45,940
I could have done this five times, but the world seems to tell entrepreneurs,

595
00:37:46,180 --> 00:37:47,780
stop, wait, focus, grow organic.

596
00:37:47,780 --> 00:37:52,400
I think that there are some artificial guardrails around most entrepreneurs

597
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:57,040
that are, I don't know, maybe an investor is saying, focus, focus,

598
00:37:57,140 --> 00:38:01,000
focus, or the last book that you read is saying, focus, focus, focus.

599
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,480
All these great business thought leadership books that we have available to

600
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,360
us, and they're all putting guardrails on our creativity.

601
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,080
And what you've said earlier today, one of the points that I just can't help

602
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,060
but emphasize is that you're recruiting people.

603
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,380
You're mentoring those people. You're building a human organization.

604
00:38:19,420 --> 00:38:22,880
You're listening. You can go do it again. Isn't that exciting?

605
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,180
It's amazing. I love it. I have lots of big tools.

606
00:38:27,220 --> 00:38:32,040
Every time it gets bigger and bigger. So watch out. So watch out. Isn't that great?

607
00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:35,180
So, all right. Speaking of books, this is the rapid fire section.

608
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:36,900
What's the last book you read?

609
00:38:37,940 --> 00:38:41,820
I read more of the business books I've read, Living, what's it called? Oh, my goodness.

610
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:46,640
It's about Living in the Void or something. Living Untethered?

611
00:38:47,060 --> 00:38:49,980
Well, no, not Living Untethered. I've read that one. But no,

612
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,680
no, it's the one that talks about, like, we all live in this,

613
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,720
like, as entrepreneurs, you're always in the gap. It's like the gaps.

614
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,560
In the gap. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so I it talks about how, you know,

615
00:39:01,620 --> 00:39:04,540
I'm always foot of foot of should of school. I'm living back in the rear rear

616
00:39:04,540 --> 00:39:08,480
and eating myself up about what I'm not doing or, you know, thinking about that

617
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,860
instead of celebrating that moment saying, wow, this is all the things I've accomplished.

618
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,860
And so it's that book. And I was a that entrepreneur.

619
00:39:16,180 --> 00:39:18,340
Now I'm trying to blank his name and I don't have it in front of me,

620
00:39:18,420 --> 00:39:21,720
but he he's read a series of books. And I thought that was probably the most

621
00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:23,060
impactful of the ones I've read.

622
00:39:23,980 --> 00:39:26,460
Sure. Those are great books. We'll put those in the show notes.

623
00:39:26,460 --> 00:39:31,560
What book do you want to read next what's on your nightstand i am going through

624
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:32,800
a little bit of a health kick right

625
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:38,700
now so so i'm reading uh books on like understanding my body and just uh,

626
00:39:39,340 --> 00:39:45,500
um you know uh you know figuring taking care of yourself taking care of myself

627
00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:50,300
yeah so i have the the tony robbins book for like the reversing like you know

628
00:39:50,300 --> 00:39:54,300
just about all the things he talks about I have that on my stand and then I

629
00:39:54,300 --> 00:39:57,120
have one around, I have a heart disease in my family.

630
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,420
So just making sure I don't have any of that. I have one called reversal heart disease.

631
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,860
It's good. Yeah. I think we as entrepreneurs, at least it's true for me,

632
00:40:04,020 --> 00:40:08,260
I neglected my health in pursuit of performance, in pursuit of excellence,

633
00:40:08,260 --> 00:40:10,500
and I just neglected myself.

634
00:40:10,660 --> 00:40:13,460
So it's good to hear you are focused on that.

635
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:19,620
I want to ask you this. One of my favorite questions is what's the best gift that you've ever given?

636
00:40:19,820 --> 00:40:24,600
Given? I think I gave my husband a dog. I love dogs. I gave him a dog.

637
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:25,660
That goes forever, right?

638
00:40:25,980 --> 00:40:28,560
Gift of unconditional love from a dog. Perfect.

639
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,400
Wow. Oh, my God. That's just fine.

640
00:40:32,420 --> 00:40:34,900
What's the best gift you've ever received?

641
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:40,660
Oh, I'm simple.

642
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,500
I actually like the little gifts. I don't like the big things.

643
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:49,240
So my husband gave me this, which I were symbolic of our like little things

644
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:53,740
that, you know, I kind of it's a little hard for our listeners. What is it?

645
00:40:54,420 --> 00:40:57,780
It's one of these little hard hands and I like metal little thing.

646
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,540
I've also had stuff he's made me.

647
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,660
I don't need the big stuff. I just like the stuff that's meaningful to you also.

648
00:41:04,580 --> 00:41:09,300
Something that has heart in it. Well, Anya, this has been a great journey.

649
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:15,940
I'm the father of two daughters, so I personally am thrilled to hear your story

650
00:41:15,940 --> 00:41:19,940
of success, your pursuit of your creative gifts,

651
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:28,360
your journey to focus on your personal health and your exploration of meditation and reflection.

652
00:41:28,860 --> 00:41:33,200
And those, I think, are going to be your superpowers as you develop them.

653
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,360
It's just such a pleasure to get to know you and to feature what you're doing

654
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,600
in the Parallel Entrepreneur journey.

655
00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:42,720
Thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me.

656
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,720
Hey, thanks for listening to another episode of the Parallel Entrepreneur.

657
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,920
And thank you to our sponsors, partners, and the special team behind the scenes

658
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,260
that make it all possible.

659
00:41:54,940 --> 00:41:59,740
Be sure to like, follow, or subscribe to our podcast and get the latest updates.

660
00:41:59,740 --> 00:42:03,740
And to learn more about this growing community of entrepreneurs,

661
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our mastermind and companion program for your Parallel Entrepreneur journey,

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visit parallelentrepreneur.com.

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And of course, thank you to all the visionary guests who trust us to share their stories.