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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Bible Guys, a podcast where a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in

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<v Speaker 1>practical ways. Hey, everybody, happy Thursday.

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<v Speaker 2>Happy Thursday.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, why not?

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<v Speaker 2>We're so excited we can hardly stand it.

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<v Speaker 1>Make this day the best Thursday ever?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay?

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<v Speaker 1>And uh and by the way, it could be the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the day.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I think Thursday doesn't get very good attention,

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<v Speaker 2>right with you. I mean, there's Monday. Everybody hates Mondays. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>Wednesday's hump day. You're like, hey, we're over the hump now,

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<v Speaker 2>we're halfway to the good part of the week. Friday

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<v Speaker 2>or Fridays, thank god, it's Friday.

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<v Speaker 1>Weekends are great.

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<v Speaker 2>Weekends are amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>So really, Tuesday and thursdayild.

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<v Speaker 2>We just forget forgotten. So hey, it's time for us

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<v Speaker 2>to give honor to whom honor is due. Thursday's been

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<v Speaker 2>standing there for us, Thursday. If it weren't for Thursday,

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<v Speaker 2>we wouldn't have anything to do between Wednesday and Friday.

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<v Speaker 1>A little buddy Thursday. All right, all right, hey, today

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<v Speaker 1>we are before we jump into the what is titled

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<v Speaker 1>as the hardest.

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<v Speaker 2>Prayer, hardist prayer, how about that.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, we have a segment and this is Stump the Pastor. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>Stump the Pastor is actually something that we actually collect questions.

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<v Speaker 1>We enjoy them, and we encourage you to email us

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<v Speaker 1>right now. So go to info actually send an email

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<v Speaker 1>to info at the Bible guys dot com. It'll get

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<v Speaker 1>to us. Or just comment on YouTube and we'll try

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<v Speaker 1>to grab your question right there.

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<v Speaker 2>I love questions like this. I love like just open

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<v Speaker 2>forum Q and a kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you enjoy that, yes, Well, it shows that people

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<v Speaker 1>are thinking, yeah, and it shows that people care and

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<v Speaker 1>they're like, hey, I have a question about the Bible

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<v Speaker 1>and I really want to know this answer.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Several times, a couple times a year. Usually I'll

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<v Speaker 2>meet with our high schoolers and just take an hour

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<v Speaker 2>or two and say, hey, it's just any question you

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<v Speaker 2>want to ask. And it's amazing how they they'll stay

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes for hours and hours just as questions. So I'll

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<v Speaker 2>tell them I'll stay as long as your pans will

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<v Speaker 2>let you stay. And so then they started this as

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<v Speaker 2>then all of a sudden, Mom and Dad are all

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<v Speaker 2>standing around. We got the crowd of people stand around

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<v Speaker 2>just asking Bible questions. Done it a few times with

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<v Speaker 2>our young adults. We got one hundred and something young

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<v Speaker 2>adults in our church, and and we do the same

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<v Speaker 2>thing there. We gotta fly flying around us, and so

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<v Speaker 2>do the same thing with our interns and residents will

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<v Speaker 2>do it. I just I love it when people are

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<v Speaker 2>using their minds. They've come across the thing, they're not

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<v Speaker 2>sure what the answer is. And instead of just giving up,

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<v Speaker 2>like I think a lot of people have grown up

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<v Speaker 2>with a religious view or belief of don't ask questions.

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<v Speaker 2>It offends God, right, Instead, I love it. The Book

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<v Speaker 2>of Jeremiah says, come now, let's reason together. Says the

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<v Speaker 2>Lord God wants us to use our minds. He God

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<v Speaker 2>invented your mind. That's right, he did, right, and he

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<v Speaker 2>knows that you have this ability to have big questions.

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<v Speaker 2>And he's not offended when we have questions. So I

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<v Speaker 2>love it. I love this segment. And so what's what's

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<v Speaker 2>our questions?

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<v Speaker 1>But by the way, did you I learned recently learned

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<v Speaker 1>that Chad is more reluctant to let me do a

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<v Speaker 1>public Q and A than you.

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<v Speaker 2>Our executive pastor, executivestor. Our executive pastor is very protective,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, why because he's because you go rogue.

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<v Speaker 1>Well he's not. He's not afraid of my theology of

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<v Speaker 1>the answer. He's he's afraid of my diplomacy lack of it. Right, So,

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<v Speaker 1>so so he's like, he's like, and I'm not even

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not even sure afraid is the word.

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<v Speaker 2>He's just a little bit more cautious. Cautious. He's like,

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<v Speaker 2>we don't we don't really know if Chris is going

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<v Speaker 2>to be you would do fine.

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<v Speaker 1>Because we all know that you're diplomatic. Well, it's definitely

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<v Speaker 1>clear that you're way more diplomatic than.

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<v Speaker 2>Me at times at times, Okay, I can also be

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<v Speaker 2>a bigger jerk than you, so right at times? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>So my lows are lower and my highs are higher.

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<v Speaker 1>My lows are lower, my eyes are higher. Yeah yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's pretty good. All right. Yeah, So this this question

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<v Speaker 1>is written by Bill T.

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<v Speaker 2>Bill Bill T.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, Hey, Bill Yes, not Bill T, but.

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<v Speaker 2>Bill Bill T. Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So he writes this, is there a distinction in the

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<v Speaker 1>Bible between justifiable and unjustifiable anger? Can Christians express anger

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<v Speaker 1>in a righteous way as Jesus did in the temple,

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<v Speaker 1>or should all anger be avoided entirely. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm afraid to answer this question at but Bill

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<v Speaker 2>to be mad at me.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm bumping. Ah, I see what you did there? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so yeah, I mean, like, so I remember a sermon.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, some sermons you remember forever, right, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if you do. I do, But I remember a

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<v Speaker 1>sermon that Bill Heibels gave at a leadership summit back

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<v Speaker 1>in like two thousand and six, and so we were

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<v Speaker 1>actually at the leadership summit and he actually talked about

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<v Speaker 1>righteous indignation, and he talked about how Jesus had righteous

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<v Speaker 1>indignation and how he flipped over the money changer's temple

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<v Speaker 1>or money changers tables at the temple.

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<v Speaker 2>So and by the way, because made a whip.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because that's correct he did. Because that's been mentioned twice.

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<v Speaker 1>We might as well at least explain that way.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure.

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<v Speaker 1>So Jesus actually in the Bible got angry, and he

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<v Speaker 1>got angry at the fact that he actually said, you

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<v Speaker 1>have made my house into a den of thieves, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And he was referring to people who were abusing what

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<v Speaker 1>it was like selling sacrifices and making a profit, unreasonable profit.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, it was exorbitant. They had kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>monopoly on the If you were traveling hundreds and hundreds

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<v Speaker 2>of miles to the temple, normally you wouldn't bring your sacrifice.

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<v Speaker 2>You would take that perfect sacrificial animal. You would sell it,

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<v Speaker 2>bring the money to Jerusalem and buy another animal that

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<v Speaker 2>you could do rather try to bring it the whole way. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>what was happening was the money changers and then the

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<v Speaker 2>people running businesses at the temple. They were you know, five, six, ten,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty times more expensive than what you could have gotten

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<v Speaker 2>or village for the same animal. And it's because they

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<v Speaker 2>had a monopoly on it. They were abusing people just

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<v Speaker 2>to make money. And it really made Jesus man. So

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<v Speaker 2>he makes a whip, he clips over the tables and

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<v Speaker 2>sets all the animals free and spills all their money

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<v Speaker 2>everywhere and really chews them out.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I mean Jesus with a whip is not

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<v Speaker 1>a common painting. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Usually it's usually it's like a sad Jesus with long

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<v Speaker 2>hair and blue eyes looking up into the Caucasian Yeah. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>the stars, and he's holding the lamb and hugging a child.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't usually think of Jesus with his sleeves rolled up,

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<v Speaker 2>whipping people, flipping tables.

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<v Speaker 1>And none of that. But like he was a strong man. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he is a carpenter, right, and so he was a specimen.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean we know that just from the physical uh

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<v Speaker 1>you know, brutality of even you know what he endured

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<v Speaker 1>and he endured it, right, So yeah, so I mean

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<v Speaker 1>this the picture would be a strong muscular man, angry

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<v Speaker 1>with a whip, flipping over tables. And so I almost

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<v Speaker 1>wonder because again, everything to me is Hollywood, not for

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<v Speaker 1>the sake of Hollywood, by the way, for the sake

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<v Speaker 1>of reality. Right, So Hollywood, meaning when I say Hollywood,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean like I can picture the whole entire scene

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<v Speaker 1>right now, That's what I mean. But I don't mean

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<v Speaker 1>Hollywood fake or Hollywood dramatization. I don't mean any of

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<v Speaker 1>those terms. When I say Hollywood.

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<v Speaker 2>What I mean you see a movie.

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<v Speaker 1>I could see this being played out. And so oftentimes

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<v Speaker 1>when I Hollywood, I as a narrative, I will I

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<v Speaker 1>will try to suppose or wonder and think to myself, like,

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<v Speaker 1>did somebody try to oppose him? Like? It doesn't say so, right,

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<v Speaker 1>It does not say that somebody came up to him,

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<v Speaker 1>and he pushed them out of the way. Or three

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<v Speaker 1>men were thinking about charging him, and then he held

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<v Speaker 1>up the whip and looked at them, and they knew

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<v Speaker 1>he was serious, and so they backed off. Right. But

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure those things happen, right, because guess what, You

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<v Speaker 1>don't come into a place and destroy people's profitability in

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<v Speaker 1>their livelihood without opposition, You just don't, Right. I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>they caught him by surprise, and I'm sure that everybody

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<v Speaker 1>knew who Jesus was. I mean, they certainly knew who

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<v Speaker 1>he was, so there might have been a fear of like,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what to do right.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, Yeah, just get out of here, Like I.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't know, I'm a nobody. I'm a guy who's making

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<v Speaker 1>a profit off animal sacrifices. And here's that's and I

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<v Speaker 1>know who that is. That's Jesus, and so I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what to do right now. But those are the

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<v Speaker 1>kind of things when I say, Hollywood is things I

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<v Speaker 1>think to myself, like, how did that play out? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because certainly people had to have a reaction to Jesus anyway.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. In Ephesians four twenty six is it twenty six?

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<v Speaker 2>Ephesians four something, let me find it. Ephesians four four.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, Ephesians four thirty two. I know if He'sans four.

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<v Speaker 2>Twenty oh, yeah, there you go for twenty six. And

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<v Speaker 2>don't let sin, and don't sin by letting anger control you. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>don't let the sun go down while you're still angry.

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<v Speaker 2>For angry anger gives a foothold to the devil. Another

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<v Speaker 2>translation says, be angry and sin not and then don't

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<v Speaker 2>let the sun go down, right, and so, so anger

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<v Speaker 2>isn't the same, right right. Anger is just an emotion.

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<v Speaker 2>Where it becomes sinful is when it's self centered. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>angry at you because you offended me. If you just

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<v Speaker 2>if you just let that fester. This why I says,

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<v Speaker 2>don't let the sun go down on your anger. You

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<v Speaker 2>let that fester, it's going to turn into bitterness. This

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<v Speaker 2>bitterness gives a foothold to the devil. So, uh, you

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<v Speaker 2>talked about righteous indignation. Man, If somebody was coming through

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<v Speaker 2>the door to hurt my wife and my daughter in

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<v Speaker 2>the middle of the night, that's correct. Believe me, they're

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<v Speaker 2>going to get the full force of Jeff right. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's the anger then is driven by the threat to

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<v Speaker 2>what I love so dearly. So first of all, I

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<v Speaker 2>have to I have to really make sure I love

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<v Speaker 2>the right things. It's not just me, it's not just

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<v Speaker 2>my happiness and my comfort. But I love my wife,

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<v Speaker 2>I love my daughter, I love my freedom, I love right.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of those things, and so because of

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<v Speaker 2>that major threats to those things. It's not a sinful

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<v Speaker 2>thing to have that anger feeling, that that rush come

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<v Speaker 2>into you saying I need to defend this. The Bible

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<v Speaker 2>talks multiple times that it's responsibility the strong to protect

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<v Speaker 2>the weak, to speak up for those who don't have

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<v Speaker 2>a voice, to protect those who can't protect themselves. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>So the Jesus talks about at one point, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the kingdom he's putting violent men will have to seize it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And he's not talking about like violence like you and

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<v Speaker 2>I think of blood and gore, but by men, men

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<v Speaker 2>that just stand up in their strength and grab a

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<v Speaker 2>hold of this thing. So I'm always cautious when people

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<v Speaker 2>start to ask is it sometimes okay for me to

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<v Speaker 2>be angry? Because on occasion I'm not saying in bill

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<v Speaker 2>Ty is this guy, But on occasion it's people who

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<v Speaker 2>have trouble with their anger and they're trying to justify

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<v Speaker 2>it and win an argument with their spouse later, right, or.

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<v Speaker 1>If they're an angry person in general, they may be

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<v Speaker 1>generally concerned about their demeanor.

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<v Speaker 2>If you are having trustworthy people, spouses, children, friends, saying, boy,

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<v Speaker 2>you seem like you're pretty angry lately, then maybe you're

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<v Speaker 2>starting to cross the line between being angry and sinning.

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<v Speaker 2>Not right, you need to get back to that. Don't sin.

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<v Speaker 2>So let your anger drive you to do something good.

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<v Speaker 2>Right So, right now, for instance, one of the ministries

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<v Speaker 2>you're really focusing a lot on lately has been child trafficking,

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<v Speaker 2>right right, So how does that make you feel? You

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<v Speaker 2>drive through those neighborhoods, and you know what's happening in

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<v Speaker 2>Dominican Republic. Their parents are selling their own children.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll actually make a statement. When I went on a

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<v Speaker 1>tour and I actually saw I saw it with my eyes.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw it, I saw the child, I saw what

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<v Speaker 1>was happening and the men protecting it, and I saw

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<v Speaker 1>a person go up and inquire about it. I have

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<v Speaker 1>never felt more anger in my entire life, in my

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<v Speaker 1>whole life, and I've gotten angry about a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>things I've never felt more anger than that.

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<v Speaker 2>So God is not calling you to be Batman becomes

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<v Speaker 2>some vigilante, right, come swooping in, kick the doors down, necessarily,

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<v Speaker 2>But that anger has driven you to start helping build

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<v Speaker 2>a system to rescue those kids, raise the money through

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<v Speaker 2>transform one, and actively begin working towards a good solution.

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<v Speaker 2>And that may not be repaying evil with evil, right,

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<v Speaker 2>it's repaying evil with good. And so how do you

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<v Speaker 2>how do you go solve that?

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<v Speaker 1>So which which, by the way, since you already mentioned it,

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<v Speaker 1>I wasn't going to say it, but by the time

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<v Speaker 1>this goes on the air, we will be two weeks

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<v Speaker 1>out from our five k. And if you want to

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<v Speaker 1>make a small.

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<v Speaker 2>Donation or a big donation or a big donation, we

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<v Speaker 2>don't we don't want to limit your donation. I would

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<v Speaker 2>you like to make a donation?

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<v Speaker 1>I would. I would love it if if somebody who

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<v Speaker 1>normally isn't a part of heritage, because you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people who listen to this are part of

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<v Speaker 1>our community anyway, and they're like, I have already heard

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<v Speaker 1>about this, Yes, but there has to be.

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<v Speaker 2>Thousand, thousands of people who don't know what you don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>What we're talking about. Would you do me a favorite?

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<v Speaker 1>Go to Heritage Church dot com slash five k. Everything's

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<v Speaker 1>on there, so if to donate or watch the video

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<v Speaker 1>find out more about it herdichurch dot com slash five

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<v Speaker 1>k making donation, that'd be awesome.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So if you're asking the question because you've had

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<v Speaker 2>people tell you you seem really angry lately, then let

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<v Speaker 2>that be God's way of saying, hey, you're starting to

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<v Speaker 2>cross the line. Yeah, right, don't use Bible versus to

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<v Speaker 2>justify your anger. But if you're feeling a holy anger

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<v Speaker 2>or a righteous indignation towards some kind of wrong thing

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<v Speaker 2>in society, and you're wondering at my sinning, well no,

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<v Speaker 2>you're not sinning necessarily, as long as you direct that

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<v Speaker 2>in a way that causes you to then address this

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<v Speaker 2>issue in a healthy, godly way. Right. So people are

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<v Speaker 2>not your enemy. Satan is our enemy, and so we

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<v Speaker 2>don't fight people. We fight the actions of Satan in

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<v Speaker 2>society and we did so. Yeah, it's great, it's great. Hey, thanks,

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<v Speaker 2>good question, Bill, that's great.

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<v Speaker 1>All of those answers are people, you know, people wonder

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<v Speaker 1>about those, so that's why they're called stump the pastors

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<v Speaker 1>because because and sometimes stump the pastors are I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know right right because depending on the question. But this

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<v Speaker 1>is something I've heard so many times, So thanks Bill

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<v Speaker 1>for asking.

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<v Speaker 2>I've thought several times it would be fun to do

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<v Speaker 2>Stump the pastor week. Oh if we could get enough

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<v Speaker 2>people to write in questions, if we could get like

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred questions, we could do three or four day

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<v Speaker 2>let's let's let's.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's announce it right now after the Dangerous Prayers series. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>let's do a five day stint where we do a

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<v Speaker 1>stump the pastor, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Not make the whole episode.

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to say, the one question may not

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<v Speaker 1>carry us the whole episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but if we get if we get a hundred questions,

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<v Speaker 2>we could just filter through them and find the ones

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<v Speaker 2>that would fill up the twenty five minutes every day.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it'd be fun.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it'd be fun. Okay, So there it is. There's

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<v Speaker 1>your assignon. People. If you want to see this series

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<v Speaker 1>come into fruition, then comment on YouTube right now, or

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<v Speaker 1>comment online or email us at info at the Bobble

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<v Speaker 1>Guys dot com and we would love to get your

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<v Speaker 1>stuff to past their questions.

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<v Speaker 2>Cool, well that's neat. Well there you go. All right,

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<v Speaker 2>Well I get permission from des right, right, because we

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<v Speaker 2>only have we only have the appearance of being in

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<v Speaker 2>control of this podcast, but we know who the real

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<v Speaker 2>puppet master is. Yes, yep, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Even no matter how angry we get, we are still

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<v Speaker 1>commanded to forgive Ooh, you're right. And that leads us

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<v Speaker 1>to this next segment, or this next passage where Jesus

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<v Speaker 1>forgives Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, good transition.

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<v Speaker 1>That was actually a good transition. That was not a

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<v Speaker 1>bad transition.

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<v Speaker 2>No, that was a very good one. So we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to pick up on at Luke chapter twenty three, verse

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<v Speaker 2>thirty two. It says to others, both criminals were led

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<v Speaker 2>out to be executed with him talking about Jesus right,

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<v Speaker 2>and when they came to a place called the Skull

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<v Speaker 2>or Galgatha, they nailed him to the cross, and the

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<v Speaker 2>criminals were also crucified, one on his right and one

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<v Speaker 2>on his left. Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they

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<v Speaker 2>don't know what they are doing, and the soldiers gambled

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<v Speaker 2>for his clothes by throwing dice. The crowd watched and

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<v Speaker 2>the leader scoffed he saved others, They said, let him

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<v Speaker 2>save himself, as if he really is God's Messiah, the

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<v Speaker 2>chosen One. The soldiers mocked him too by offering him

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<v Speaker 2>a drink of sour wine. They called out to him,

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<v Speaker 2>if you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>A sign was fashioned above him with these words, this

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<v Speaker 2>is the king of the Jews. One of the criminals

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<v Speaker 2>hanging beside him scoffed, So you're the Messiah? Are you

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<v Speaker 2>prove it by saving yourself and us two while you're

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<v Speaker 2>at it? But the other criminal protested, don't you fear

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<v Speaker 2>God even when you've been sentenced to die. We deserve

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<v Speaker 2>to die for our crimes. But this man hasn't done

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<v Speaker 2>anything wrong. And then he said, Jesus, remember me when

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<v Speaker 2>you come into your kingdom. And Jesus replied, I assure

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<v Speaker 2>you today you'll be with me in Paradise. And by

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<v Speaker 2>this time it was about noon, and darkness fell across

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<v Speaker 2>the whole land, until three o'clock the light from the

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<v Speaker 2>sun was gone, as suddenly the curtain in the sanctuary

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<v Speaker 2>of the temple was torn down the middle. Then Jesus shouted, Father,

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<v Speaker 2>I entrust my spirit into your hands and with those words,

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<v Speaker 2>he breathed his last.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, there's a lot in there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, well, I think the big, the dangerous prayers Father

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<v Speaker 2>forgive them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that is definitely the focus of the topic. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And we can go on forever about everything else that's

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<v Speaker 1>in there. Uh. But I don't know why. I just

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<v Speaker 1>got super emotional thinking about the criminal. You know. He

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<v Speaker 1>you know, here's this criminal who doesn't have a name,

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<v Speaker 1>just known as the criminal.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and one day we're criminal one and criminal two.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, We're gonna get to heaven. And I'm you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of questions. I think that God will

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<v Speaker 1>indulge us with these questions. I do, I do. I

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<v Speaker 1>think I think we'll have time, obviously sure to explore

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<v Speaker 1>every question that we have and uh that we have

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<v Speaker 1>now on this earth. And I think that, uh, I

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<v Speaker 1>I would love to talk to this criminal. The the

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<v Speaker 1>idea that that one of them, you know, is scoffing

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<v Speaker 1>and then the other is completely recognizing that in belief

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<v Speaker 1>that he's the son of God and saying, don't you

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<v Speaker 1>fear God? He's saying, how dare you talk to God

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<v Speaker 1>this way? I mean, he is he is a believer,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, keep in mind that. It did say that

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<v Speaker 1>there were so many people there at that what am

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<v Speaker 1>I What am I trying to say?

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<v Speaker 2>Pass Over week, Yes, pass over fester. The city was

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<v Speaker 2>just it was bursting at the seams at this point.

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<v Speaker 1>And it said that, It said many were there because

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<v Speaker 1>they had heard that he had raised Lazarus from the dead.

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<v Speaker 1>So his popularity had grown to such a degree to where,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, people had heard his claims to be the

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<v Speaker 1>Messiah at this time. You know, he held nothing back

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<v Speaker 1>and so he had done nothing wrong. Everybody knew it.

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<v Speaker 1>This is even a testament of the public, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>You know sometimes when when something happens and there's a patsy,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like you can't sort of I just watched it yesterday.

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<v Speaker 1>I watched the movie where everybody knew that what was

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<v Speaker 1>happening was unjust and this person who was the patsy

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<v Speaker 1>didn't deserve to get fired from his job. But everybody

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<v Speaker 1>knew it. Everybody knew it, but nobody wanted to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about it because everybody was afraid of the authorities. That

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<v Speaker 1>happened just last night, and so here it is. This

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<v Speaker 1>man makes a statement that represents like everybody here knows

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<v Speaker 1>that this man is in a sense everybody here knows

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<v Speaker 1>he's done nothing wrong, and this man recognizes Jesus. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not the focus of the dangerous prayer.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to point out one interesting thing to me.

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<v Speaker 2>This guy on the cross, maybe in this specific moment

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<v Speaker 2>in history, had the most faith of maybe everybody else

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<v Speaker 2>on the planet, because Jesus came preaching the Kingdom of God,

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<v Speaker 2>and when you're naked and nailed to the cross, the

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<v Speaker 2>kingdom seems like it should be over.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody lost hope, all the disciples lost.

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<v Speaker 2>Hope, and only the guy on the cross next to

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<v Speaker 2>him said, I still believe in your kingdom.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that an original thought right now?

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<v Speaker 2>Isn't that neat?

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<v Speaker 1>Because that's incredible. Yeah, that's incredible.

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<v Speaker 2>Peter Peter lied and denied. James and the Mary's they're

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<v Speaker 2>they're standing back in the crowd fear.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and uh and uh. Everybody can't believe or understand. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And it says that they didn't understand, they didn't remember

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<v Speaker 1>his words, they didn't know what was happening. And it

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<v Speaker 1>says only after he was resurrected then they remembered the

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<v Speaker 1>promise he told them, right, So they had lost all hope,

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<v Speaker 1>they were out of they were motivated, out of fear.

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<v Speaker 1>They all ran, they were all in hiding. Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>And then and this guy, this one guy said, Jesus,

420
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:38.799
<v Speaker 2>remember me when you show.

421
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Up in Paradise before the veil rents in two before

422
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.880
<v Speaker 1>the earthquake. Is the Roman soldier?

423
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:45.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, made a statement and the thing he had heard

424
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Jesus say was his father forgive them. They don't know

425
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.359
<v Speaker 2>what they've done. And he had no hope for forgiveness

426
00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:51.799
<v Speaker 2>except that.

427
00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:54.319
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

428
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:58.839
<v Speaker 2>Right, and then he what a thought? Yeah, whats so thought? Anyways,

429
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:00.839
<v Speaker 2>Jesus says, I really want.

430
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:04.559
<v Speaker 1>To meet this guy. You really want to meet this guy.

431
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:06.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to find this guy.

432
00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:10.000
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, hey, maybe you guys have been neighbors in heaven.

433
00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Maybe yes, maybe so maybe God will honor that. So

434
00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:16.200
<v Speaker 1>so the so the prayer Father forgive them for they

435
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:20.160
<v Speaker 1>don't know what they are doing. Charlie Kirk's wife prayed that.

436
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:20.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

437
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:24.319
<v Speaker 1>Just just we saw it all over social media and uh,

438
00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:28.480
<v Speaker 1>what an unbelievable thing. So the nation right now reacted

439
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:34.079
<v Speaker 1>and are marveling at the fact, like, how can anybody

440
00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:38.319
<v Speaker 1>forgive the shooter of your of your of your husband. Yeah,

441
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:41.000
<v Speaker 1>and uh, and we've heard stories like this. I mean,

442
00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:43.079
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't even have to be Charlie Kirk's wife, which

443
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:46.200
<v Speaker 1>is in recent news, but it could be you know, like, uh,

444
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you've heard this. Have you? Have you read

445
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:55.039
<v Speaker 1>or seen YouTube or even documentaries where uh, the the

446
00:21:55.160 --> 00:22:00.759
<v Speaker 1>victim's wife forgives the criminal. I've actually seen it documentary

447
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:04.680
<v Speaker 1>where they became best friends and she led him to

448
00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:09.400
<v Speaker 1>christ and he was on death row and she mentored

449
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:11.920
<v Speaker 1>him and walked him through and he was there for

450
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:16.279
<v Speaker 1>a couple of years, and eventually she was a part

451
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:20.319
<v Speaker 1>of the appeal to get him off of death row. Yeah.

452
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:22.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean, like, which is an honest it's hard to

453
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:24.920
<v Speaker 2>wrap your head around that kind of thing. So forgiveness.

454
00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:26.799
<v Speaker 2>And I've told my story many times, coming from a

455
00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:28.960
<v Speaker 2>life of abuse and those kinds of things early on,

456
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:31.960
<v Speaker 2>my biological father was a very bad man before he

457
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:36.279
<v Speaker 2>became a Christian and my dad adopted me and my

458
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:39.680
<v Speaker 2>life changed, right, so everything was different between my biological

459
00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:41.440
<v Speaker 2>father and my dad. And my dad just went to

460
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:43.240
<v Speaker 2>heaven here recently, so I missed him. I just ran

461
00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:46.119
<v Speaker 2>across some photos of him in my desk yesterday. Thought

462
00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:49.799
<v Speaker 2>about him for a while, but my biological father was

463
00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:53.680
<v Speaker 2>violent towards my mother and I, very very abusive for

464
00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:58.119
<v Speaker 2>a very long time. For thirty something years, I never

465
00:22:58.160 --> 00:22:59.880
<v Speaker 2>heard anything from him at all after he gave him.

466
00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:02.039
<v Speaker 2>After he gave me up for adoption, one day he

467
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.160
<v Speaker 2>reached out. He sent me an email said that he'd

468
00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:06.440
<v Speaker 2>seen all my messages online, seen what God was doing

469
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:09.279
<v Speaker 2>in my life, and he said, I hope that you

470
00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:12.200
<v Speaker 2>believe in redemption because God's changed me over the last

471
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.799
<v Speaker 2>several years. He got sober and gave his life to Christ,

472
00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:20.720
<v Speaker 2>and his life had changed, and he said, I hope

473
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:23.480
<v Speaker 2>you can forgive me. So then when I met him,

474
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:28.400
<v Speaker 2>met him one time, he confessed how he treated me

475
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:30.119
<v Speaker 2>and my mom and that it was wrong, and that

476
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:32.599
<v Speaker 2>he said, you know, I don't think you could have

477
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.960
<v Speaker 2>been who you grew up to be if you'd stayed

478
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:37.759
<v Speaker 2>in my life. You know, I would have destroyed that.

479
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:40.279
<v Speaker 2>But God had to take you away from me, and

480
00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:42.319
<v Speaker 2>that was the best thing. But I hope you can

481
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:45.960
<v Speaker 2>forgive me. And I told him the words, I do

482
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:48.480
<v Speaker 2>forgive you, But I don't know that I felt like

483
00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:52.519
<v Speaker 2>I forgave him until I found out after that conversation,

484
00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:54.319
<v Speaker 2>maybe thirty minutes later he told me that he was

485
00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:56.359
<v Speaker 2>dying of cancer and asked me to do his funeral.

486
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.880
<v Speaker 2>And then I was faced with that when he did

487
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:00.440
<v Speaker 2>die of cancer, I was faced with that whether or

488
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:02.599
<v Speaker 2>not I was going to do his funeral. And I

489
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:08.400
<v Speaker 2>realized forgiveness, like Charlie Kirk's wife just did or whatever,

490
00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:12.279
<v Speaker 2>publicly is not saying what you did is okay, correct,

491
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:17.160
<v Speaker 2>it's not. It's not saying ah, no, big eie. It

492
00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:20.319
<v Speaker 2>was a big deal. It was a devastatingly big deal.

493
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.799
<v Speaker 2>This is the most devastating thing. You nearly ruined my life,

494
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:28.160
<v Speaker 2>right kind of thing, and then your mom. But what

495
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:31.680
<v Speaker 2>I realized was in Romans chapter twelve, he says, don't

496
00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:35.680
<v Speaker 2>repay evil with evil, repay evil with good. And then

497
00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:38.599
<v Speaker 2>he says, because Vengeance's mind says the Lord, I will repay.

498
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:42.079
<v Speaker 2>What I realized is forgiveness really is just me giving

499
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:46.559
<v Speaker 2>up my right to prosecute you and judge you and

500
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:51.079
<v Speaker 2>execute you. And I'll give that over to God. God,

501
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:52.880
<v Speaker 2>you do what you need to do with him. He

502
00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:54.799
<v Speaker 2>you know what he did. He did die, and he

503
00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:57.240
<v Speaker 2>did have to go stand before his maker, and he

504
00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:02.680
<v Speaker 2>did have to give an account, right, and that released

505
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:05.359
<v Speaker 2>me on that day when I realized I'm not saying

506
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:08.240
<v Speaker 2>it's okay, I'm saying it's God's business, not mine anymore.

507
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:11.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm giving them. And dude, I got set free from

508
00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.799
<v Speaker 2>the bitterness and the resentment that i'd had in all

509
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:18.559
<v Speaker 2>that time prior when I finally realized, Okay, I'm not God.

510
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:21.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to give him over to God. And God's

511
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:22.920
<v Speaker 2>going to do what God's going to do for justice,

512
00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:25.519
<v Speaker 2>not me, right, And that's what says free. And so

513
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:27.880
<v Speaker 2>when Jesus says, Father, forgive them, they don't know what

514
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:32.240
<v Speaker 2>they're doing, Jesus is actually leading on behalf of those

515
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:35.839
<v Speaker 2>who deserve judgment. And that's a whole other level.

516
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:36.079
<v Speaker 1>Man.

517
00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:39.079
<v Speaker 2>Right, personal forgiveness is I don't have to judge you.

518
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:43.359
<v Speaker 2>But this is he's advocating for them now, and that's

519
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:44.160
<v Speaker 2>next level.

520
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:48.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's definitely next level. And really there's so much

521
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:52.079
<v Speaker 1>in that statement because he's saying they don't understand, almost

522
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:55.440
<v Speaker 1>implying like if they understood, it would be a whole

523
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:55.920
<v Speaker 1>different thing.

524
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:56.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

525
00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:59.599
<v Speaker 1>Right, So Father forgive them because they're acting at ignorance.

526
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:02.240
<v Speaker 2>It was the alcohol in him that was doing it.

527
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:04.039
<v Speaker 2>He wasn't that way when he was sober. He was

528
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:05.599
<v Speaker 2>just that way when he was drunk. Here's just the

529
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:08.599
<v Speaker 2>problem was he's drunk all the time, right, And Jesus

530
00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:12.599
<v Speaker 2>is understanding, we're drunk on our sin. We are are

531
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:15.720
<v Speaker 2>consumed by the evil that is in us, to the

532
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:18.200
<v Speaker 2>point we don't even really know the depths of our

533
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:22.319
<v Speaker 2>hearts really, right, We're not very self aware. And Jesus

534
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:24.119
<v Speaker 2>is just like, they have no idea what they're doing,

535
00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:26.960
<v Speaker 2>so forgive them. He looked at us, He looked at

536
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:33.359
<v Speaker 2>his his the soldiers, his killers. He looked at them

537
00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:36.319
<v Speaker 2>with a compassion that I hope we can find in

538
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:39.559
<v Speaker 2>our own hearts. That they're like children. They're just stumbling along,

539
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:43.880
<v Speaker 2>stumbling around, consumed by evil. They have no idea how

540
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:46.599
<v Speaker 2>this is ruining them and everything around them. And if

541
00:26:46.599 --> 00:26:48.759
<v Speaker 2>we can start to have that kind of compassion towards

542
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:52.480
<v Speaker 2>the evils we see in society, maybe we can come

543
00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:54.680
<v Speaker 2>with far more power. Because it was right after that

544
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:58.799
<v Speaker 2>prayer that this criminal goes Jesus, I want what you have, yeah, right,

545
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:00.920
<v Speaker 2>and the world will want what we have when we

546
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:04.640
<v Speaker 2>step up and we're able to say, God, you fix it.

547
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:09.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. What a great podcast. I rate this top notch.

548
00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:13.160
<v Speaker 1>All right, that's a good one. Yeah, it's a good conversation,

549
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:17.119
<v Speaker 1>good conversation. All right. Well, hey, hopefully we will see

550
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:18.480
<v Speaker 1>you tomorrow on the Bibble guys,