The Modern Hotelier #108: Hospitality Insights from the Independent Lodging Congress Sausalito, CA - Part 3 === Steve Carran: And now we are joined by Brigette Horenda from B& Co. Thank you for joining us, Brigette. How are you today? Brigette Harenda: Great. Great. It's gorgeous in Sausalito. Steve Carran: Yeah, it is a phenomenal day here. So, for those that aren't familiar, can you tell us a little bit about B& Co? Brigette Harenda: Sure. So I started the company 16 years ago now. I actually am a bit of an accidental hotelier myself. The company started when I started working on an independent hotel in Milwaukee, and that was in 2008. As you can imagine, things didn't go well financially, and so I became an investor in that hotel. And I remember turning to my staff at the time and saying, "Okay, we're in the hotel business." And so we started B& Co as a company that would specialize in hospitality branding. David Millili: That's great. So how many ILCs have you been to? Brigette Harenda: Uh, way more than I can possibly count. I mean, I think I've been coming for nine or ten years. I usually come to anywhere from two to all of them every single year. I love them. I mean, it's really the only hospitality event that I attend anymore. David Millili: So what are some takeaways from this event and being here in Sausalito, which for us is just an amazing place? Brigette Harenda: It is an amazing place, and I think that's indicative of what ILC does. They find fantastic markets to host these things. So not only are you coming together for the conversations and the content, but you get a deep dive into a market and what's happening on the hospitality scene in each of the cities that are hosted. David Millili: Absolutely, they're great, yeah. Steve Carran: So, you mentioned you got into the hotel business in 2008 in Milwaukee. I was actually in Milwaukee in 2008. I was going to college there. How have you seen Milwaukee grow and evolve over the years? Brigette Harenda: It's a great question. I think Milwaukee right now is having a little bit of a moment. I think the city is doing very well in terms of kind of owning who we are and having our own strong point of view. We're no longer trying to be Chicago. We're no longer in the shadow of Minneapolis. Milwaukee has its own thing happening, and we're seeing that at the hospitality level as well. In 2008, when, say, the Iron Horse Hotel opened up, we had to convince people to come in and hang out. Now, hotels are the place to be, and there are many opening up. The market itself is really maturing, but we still know who we are. Steve Carran: Yeah, I actually worked right next to the Iron Horse Hotel when it opened, and we would go there for happy hours. The Harley Davidson Museum is right around the corner, so we would go there for happy hours and sit on the motorcycle seats. That was such a cool hotel, and it still is one of my favorite hotels in Milwaukee. Brigette Harenda: Yeah, it is. The city is really coming into its own, and I think we are getting a little bit more credibility. I mean, we're making lists left and right. Eater does a ton of content on Milwaukee; Travel and Leisure has featured Milwaukee a couple of times in the last few years, so it's good to see. David Millili: So what do you think, we're just about into 2025. What do you think is one of the biggest challenges for the independent sector in hospitality? Brigette Harenda: Well, there is a growing number of hotels playing within the independent space. You know, before, if you didn't have a hundred-room hotel, like, you couldn't "make money." Now, you're seeing small hotels open up with under twenty rooms. So there's more and more competition for the guest that's looking for a unique stay. And I think that's happening in major markets, but it's also happening in secondary and tertiary markets as well. Steve Carran: Looking ahead to 2025, again, what's a trend that you think we're going to see more of next year Brigette Harenda: I think the trend is the continued crossover of hospitality and residential spaces. You know, Airbnb started it, but they're not ending it. We're seeing all of the major brands start to play within the residential space. Many of our branding projects right now have a residential component, so we're working on either an apartment concept or a lot of condos. Steve Carran: Sure, the part-hotels kind of... Very cool. Very cool. Well, this has been great. Thank you for stopping by, Brigette. It was great to talk to a fellow Wisconsinite and hear what's going on in Milwaukee. Thanks for coming. Brigette Harenda: Cool. Absolutely. Thank you. Steve Carran: Thank you. -------------- Steve Carran: Now we are joined by Romal Jayswal from StayNow. Thanks for joining us, Romo. How are you doing today? Romal Jayswal: I'm doing good. Thank you for having me. That's, yeah. Steve Carran: You bet. So tell me a little bit—StayNow, a startup—tell us a little bit more about StayNow and what you're doing. Romal Jayswal: No, absolutely. So before I talk about StayNow, let me tell you a little bit about the journey where we got. And so, I've been owning hotels, and, uh, I'm a techie, so I worked like 15 years in corporate America, so seen and built multiple products. And on the investment side, you know, I own hotels, so I see the OTAs and brands, right? So if you think about our industry, if 100 is coming to a hotel, 40 to 50 is lost in the name of technology, branding to OTAs and brands. So that's the problem we are trying to solve, right? And one of the biggest pieces is OTA, and it's only getting worse because now, you know, it's like they're pitching one hotel against another and all that. So, you're trying to come into a market. And, um, the way we want to enter is through a top, you know, boutique experience, right? We are trying to get that community together. So what we are doing is, when we started on this journey, we were like, okay, how can we build an OTA, which is not just a copy of Expedia and bookings.com? So we hired a company called UX Reactor. They specialized in taking a napkin idea all the way to product design. They spent almost a year, and then I was connected with the principal, and he was so moved by the story and the problem that we are solving. So they took equity in, and, uh, they went and did their research. They talked to like 2,000 different customers from different segments. They did a complete audit of existing OTAs and the buying behavior. And now they came back with all this survey research and they said, okay, these are the things that a customer is looking for because currently when they go to book a room, the research they go through is like they're going through ten different tabs, a Google map, a TripAdvisor, and all that—so it's too much clutter. So if you can build an app with these features, then it's really going to appeal to the customer. So after one year of that, now we were confident that what we are building is not what RJ thinks—it's what the end customer is looking for. Since I own hotels and I'm connected to a lot of hoteliers, we did our first friends and family round and we raised some good capital. And it took us two years to build the product. We went live on October 1st. So it's like two weeks in. David Millili: Congratulations. Romal Jayswal: No, thank you. Yeah, so it's a lot of hard work, a lot of risk-taking has gone in, and you know, what we are trying to disrupt is pretty big, right? And you know, like you hear about new OTAs coming every now and then, right? So what are we going to do that's going to be different? And you know, the chance of success is very low. But we feel that we have done—like, we have touched everything that we can to figure out, right? There is no opportunity lost and all that. So, hopefully, you know—and this is my first conference, by the way. So, I'm used to going to Hilton, Wyndham, Joyce, you know, all the different conferences. So this one just popped up, I think on my social media, because now I'm into the whole, like, independent hotels and you know, I'm trying to understand what is the difference between an independent hotel and a lifestyle hotel and high-end experiences. So in my mind, I'm trying to understand how those differences are. And this event came up. Right, so I'm like, okay, you know what, let me go and figure out, right, what is the crowd? What kind of thing? And I'm really impressed by the way, you know, everybody that I meet with, I'm coming out with a different perspective, like what my understanding of independent properties is and we know how the operators or the investors, how they think. It has literally, like, 50 percent was completely wrong or different. So, you know, it has been a great journey. But yeah, coming back to StayNow, that's the vision. We want to become a platform where we can have all these high-end boutique lifestyle hotels under one umbrella, so the community comes together, and then as we evolve, we want to make it more and more of a community platform. So that way, if you take a vacation and you have done the research of hotels, and we are putting the whole trip concept together. That was one of the things that came out of the research: people don't want to book a hotel, a restaurant somewhere, and an activity somewhere. So in our app, you can do hotels, restaurants, activities, things to do. So we have done all that plumbing. So now you're a one-stop shop. And the beauty is that if he has done all that research and you are in the same segment, we decide the segment based on buying behavior and all that, shopping for what you're looking for. For you, it's going to be one click. You do one click and you get exactly the same thing that he experienced. Yes, and then there's going to be a lot of AI built in. So that way the whole journey is very smooth for you. For him, if he clicks on your trip, now you get that loyalty points. Because now you are becoming a travel influencer within our community. Steve Carran: We've had some startups on this, but I think two weeks is the youngest one we've ever had. Romal Jayswal: Thank you, yeah. David Millili: Yeah, so you talked about this conference, so I'm going to get into—we have two questions that we've been asking everyone. I'm going to ask the first one; Steve will ask the second one. What's the biggest challenge that you think is currently facing independent hotels from some of this that's facing them for next year, from some of the research you've done for your company? Romal Jayswal: What I thought—that independent hotels, they are relying strictly on OTAs. So 70 to 80 percent was the number that I came in. In this conference, based on our research, so I'm like, if 70 to 80 percent of the bookings that are coming are coming through OTAs and the commission is so high, right? So that's what StayNow is disrupting, right? But when I came here in this lifestyle, you know, this high-end boutique hotel, that number is like 30, 40, even 20 on some properties. So that is something that I learned, you know, which was contradicting to what data I can, uh, you know, uh. So yeah, I think that's the opportunity that we are going after, right, clearly, with StayNow. And you know, like just kind of personal side of it, I get bored going to the same hotel every time, right? Like Holiday Inn Express is like, if I'm not, like, you know, it's just sleep and shower, that's okay. But if you want to experience something, there's nothing there, right? And I feel that, you know, I grew up in India, and every vacation that we used to go, there is some memory about the hotel, the city, and everything. So I want to bring that concept in StayNow, like, experience as a local, what they are experiencing, right? You don't want to go and eat at the same pizza place that you have in your town. You want to know an authentic guy who's making it in that town and that locals are enjoying. So you want to know that. So that's why our platform is catering to that, right? Stay at a place, find all this kind of hole-in-the-wall places, and learn from the locals and enjoy the town. Steve Carran: Hyperlocal experiences. Romal Jayswal: And I think that's what independent hotels are doing in this segment. But I think the more you do that, then I think the whole value proposition from a business standpoint should come out, right? That, okay, you know what, if I am a traditional brand hotel and I'm making X number of money and you know the whole P&L, if I invest a little bit more and convert to this brand, I think there'll be more properties, there'll be more segments. I think families and people will have more authentic experiences, right? That's... Steve Carran: 100 percent. I agree. Is that a trend you see for next year too, the experiences? Or do you think there's a bigger trend coming? Romal Jayswal: Based on our research, I feel the trend is going to be people are hungry for authentic interactions, experiences, and that's what we are positioning for. Steve Carran: I love that. I love that. Well, RJ, thank you so much for joining and sitting down with us two weeks into your company. It was great to learn a little bit more about StayNow, and thanks for stopping by. Romal Jayswal: No, thank you. David Millili: Appreciate the opportunity. -------------- Steve Carran: We are back with Jacque Nunley from Salesforce. Longtime friend of the show—you were on season one with us. Jacqueline Nunley: I know, I know. And I hit the highest score or something like that. We were watching the stats. Steve Carran: It was impressive. Everybody loves Jacque Nunley on The Modern Hotelier. So, last time we talked, we discussed AI. It was kind of the newer trend a couple of years ago, and you had awesome insight on why AI is important with data. What has been going on with AI? In the past—I guess I would say two years, but that's a lot—so let's go past that. What's been going on with AI recently? Jacqueline Nunley: Six months—like, it's moving so quickly. It's really incredible how much speed we've managed to gain with this momentum. And you know, what it means for us is that everybody's engaging with AI on a regular basis. It’s not just about work; it’s about how I inform myself and use the technology that is accessible to me. So, in the world of work and hospitality, it’s very interesting. We went from predictive AI to generative AI, which is, you know, input-output. That’s what we currently do with ChatGPT and tools like that. But what’s really interesting is how the tech world is integrating this technology into their products to actually help industries evolve much quicker. I think what’s really important is the platform it sits on, to hone in on how secure the technology actually can be to execute at the level we need it to for enterprise and independent hotels—which is what we're here for. But what’s incredibly interesting is the next phase of AI, which is agentic AI or autonomous agents. So with input-output generative AI, we are now seeing AI actually completing tasks, grounded within rules and guardrails, and being able to provide a source for completing a task. Now, the term "AI assistant" becomes really meaningful when you have this sort of technology available to make you more productive, with more accuracy, all grounded in available data. We’re seeing this era starting to evolve, and it's interesting. There's lots of momentum in the enterprise world. It would be very interesting to see how this technology can help the independent world of hotels because enterprise hotels have large IT departments. But when we’re looking at independents, I think some of these tools are exactly what they need to be able to compete, be more productive, and excel. Steve Carran: Especially with staffing shortages—AI can help create more time and make them more efficient. I mean, it’s going to be great, I hope, for independent hotels. Jaqueline Nunley: Absolutely. You know, in hospitality, we also have the high turnover and the age range of who comes to work in hospitality, right? So, we’re experiencing labor shortages, not just because there isn’t anyone who wants to work in hospitality, but how do you actually engage the younger generations to be interested in working in hospitality? Steve Carran: Exactly. Jacqueline Nunley: This is one of the levers that can definitely be pulled when the right technology is available to let them be themselves. You know, if you’ve had any conversations with Gen Zers or Zillenials—I heard something about Zillenials yesterday as well. We have to define what that is, but that’s interesting. For me, that’s really exciting. If I can bring in the right technology that aligns with what these individuals are used to using, engaging with on a day-to-day basis, then it starts to make sense. But what really excites me is the ability to use this technology to help us become more human in delivering hospitality. So, it’s almost like we’ve reached a place where technology will make us more human by taking away all of the minutiae and mundane tasks people have to do. David Millili: But you're outspoken—why don’t people think that? Why are people so scared of it, where they think it’s going to hurt, hinder, or diminish the industry? Jacqueline Nunley: Well, there are many approaches to this, and it takes looking at how to improve businesses on every level. It takes the right leadership and the right decisions being made around the business. And I think it’s just a matter of it coming full circle. We’ve talked so many times about how our technology has been slow to evolve in hospitality. Well, maybe we didn’t have the right technology. This is the opportunity for hoteliers to actually look at what they have and really execute on all the things we talk about. Whether it’s curating hospitality or delivering the guest experience—how do you make these things come alive? I think we all have the right intentions, but perhaps the technology to allow for that wasn’t available yet. Which is why I’m so stoked about what’s coming. Steve Carran: We’re in the same boat. Jaqueline Nunley: Yes. David Millili: You have been to a lot of ILCs. Jacqueline Nunley: I have. David Millili: So this is a unique place. Steve and I have been to many, but this is a unique setting. What are your takeaways from the couple of days here? Anything that stood out versus maybe other ILCs? Jacqueline Nunley: I think the audience has changed a little bit. We’re becoming more inclusive of all of hospitality. This particular ILC—I’ve been quite surprised. I’ve been hanging out with a lot of architects and designers and getting their take on what hospitality looks like in the future. I think that affects branding and the ideas of how to brand hotels. Some very interesting panels I listened to were really about designing for future audiences now that everything seems to be changing. It’s been a learning experience for me. I’m glad I was exposed to that because it gets my creativity going on how we can continue to help them evolve. I see a lot of new brands in the future. I don’t know if you guys were in the panel with Proper Hotels and Viceroy—that was an interesting take on luxury. Steve Carran: What interested you about that panel? Jacqueline Nunley: I think it’s just really interesting how luxury is ultra-focused on the guest experience. They also realize how scale needs to work in the luxury market. How do you do that effectively and build the right branding around it? How are you engaging with guests regularly? How are you enabling or supporting your employees to deliver a luxury experience? It’s really interesting looking at a brand like Proper and then at Viceroy, and all the aspects that bring hospitality together. Steve Carran: So it’s October. We’re almost through 2024—the year has flown by. What are some challenges you think the independent space will face next year? Jacqueline Nunley: I think there’s a merging of hospitality. The more I come to these conferences, the more I hear a lot of sharing. But how do you keep independents independent? I won’t go too far with that topic, but I think you both know what I’m referring to. I think the challenge for independents will be speed. Without the right technology, you cannot move fast. There also has to be a shift in thinking about how to create independent hotels and experiences for the future. Right now, from my purview, when I look at how technology is moving, it’s the future creating the future—it’s not about looking in the past. So it’s really about enabling the independent space to move faster, compete with larger brands, stay creative, and be the incubator of what hospitality should be. Steve Carran: 100 percent. Couldn’t have said it better myself. Jacqueline Nunley: That’s what I think they’ll be challenged with David Millili: Right, so now you get to redefine and maybe even eliminate a word that people are using: trends. Why should we do that, and what are your insights there? Jacqueline Nunley: I think that when you look at other industries, you know, apart from hospitality—today we had a forum talk on the convergence of hospitality and retail. There are stories in our market where a trend actually translates into hotels or the new retail storefront. And you’re seeing that happen. Vegas has had it for a really long time, but now you’re actually seeing bespoke amenities related to a brand affiliated with a hotel when your turndown is done. This is how some retail aspects are coming into hospitality because it brings in a loyal crowd. But to me, trends come and go. I think focusing on what hospitality can be and perfecting that first is key. We heard from the CDO at Proper: let’s get the basics right. That’s so important, which is why I shy away from the word trends. It’s really about what market we are in and the insights we get from the market to inform what we have to do to deliver the right hospitality. That makes more sense, has longevity, and offers the stability to deliver the right hospitality. David Millili: That’s great. Steve Carran: Nunley, a pleasure as always. Thank you for taking the time out of your conference to sit and talk with us for a few minutes. Jacqueline Nunley: Thank you so much for having me Steve Carran: Thank you. ------ Steve Carran: Now we are joined by Ryan Foat from 360. How are you doing today, Ryan? Ryan Foat: Doing well. Thanks for asking. Thanks for having me. rran: You bet. So, for those who might not be familiar with 360, can you give a little background about what you all do? Ryan Foat: Sure. 360 is a design-build company in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. We've been doing this for 17 years. I joined the team eight and a half, nine years ago. Actually, my very first project was with 360—the Dan Dan Project, and you may have met my partner earlier, Dan Jacobs. His project, Dan Dan, was the first project I was actively involved in. But we do a variety of work; our primary clients are food and beverage spaces. We also do some retail, other types of commercial spaces, and certainly, with COVID, we did a lot of remodels of basements, kitchens, and bathrooms too, because commercial wasn't doing so great for a minute. But it's come back very strong, and in fact, we've had some of our best years ever. Steve Carran: That's awesome. David Millili: That's great. So is this your first ILC? Ryan Foat: This is my second ILC. I was encouraged to come by Brigette, my other partner. She's been a long-time partner of ILC and participant, and she said, "This would be really great for you; you should really come check this out." And of course, I trust her, so I did, and I went to Asheville. It was beautiful. It was super inspiring. I came back, and I really felt like my cup had been filled. I was super inspired, and since then, it’s like the floodgates have opened with so many new business development ideas and ways to approach and grow our business. Steve Carran: That's incredible. So, looking ahead to 2025, what challenges do you see either in the F&B side or in hospitality in general? Ryan Foat: What I see in F&B is that the biggest challenge seems to be staffing. I hear about it non-stop. Like, "I don’t know what to do. I lost another GM today. I'm on my third bar manager in six weeks." It's awful. You can’t open a restaurant like that, and a restaurant that doesn’t have consistency in management doesn’t survive. Then, even finding the right talent pool for the kitchen is a challenge. So, I think it’s really important, as we’re concepting spaces, to design things that are achievable, sustainable, and operable with the talent pool you have available. Steve Carran: Absolutely. David Millili: And so, we've been asking everyone, trying to get a little bit of that crystal ball into the future. Do you have any predictions or trends that you see coming up in 2025 or anything you've maybe taken away from the last couple of days here that you think is going to catch on for next year? Ryan Foat: I feel like—maybe it's just because I'm really into it, and I have my own background as a line cook, working in culinary to pay my way through design school—but I see a lot of buzz right now around shows like The Bear or Top Chef. People are really excited about the F&B space, and you even hear people casually using the language, “Yes, chef!” I think there's more connection than ever, with people really empathizing with what’s going on in the kitchen. And I think if we can bring more connection from the kitchen experience to the people in the restaurant, that would be a great thing. It would build more connection there, and deepen understanding of what it means to run a successful F&B space. Steve Carran: Very well said, and I agree 100%. I was actually in Arizona and went to this sushi place where the chef makes it in front of you, telling you about where the food comes from, the history of how they make sushi, and they even made wasabi with shark scales and stuff like that. Doing it all in front of you—the presentation, the experience of it all. Ryan Foat: And then you're making a deeper connection. It’s not just the experience; it’s now like an emotional connection and an intellectual one. Steve Carran: Absolutely. Ryan, this was fantastic. Thank you so much for stopping by. Great to chat with you, and yeah, appreciate it. Awesome. David Millili: Thank you so much.