WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.089 --> 00:00:26.499 Anke: Hello and welcome, 00:00:26.509 --> 00:00:26.999 Lisa: Lisa. 00:00:27.029 --> 00:00:29.489 I'm super excited to have you here with me. 00:00:30.009 --> 00:00:31.549 I can't thank you enough. 00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:35.979 It's so delightful and we've chatted just teeny tiny bit and, you know, I, this 00:00:35.979 --> 00:00:38.689 promises to be a fun 20, 25, 30 minutes. 00:00:39.139 --> 00:00:40.869 Anke: It will be, I guarantee it. 00:00:41.509 --> 00:00:46.969 So let's just slide straight in and let people know where you're based and, you 00:00:46.969 --> 00:00:48.999 know, what's your business with dogs? 00:00:49.269 --> 00:00:51.549 And what, what about Cold Nose College? 00:00:51.559 --> 00:00:52.839 It's just so adorable. 00:00:53.319 --> 00:00:54.219 Lisa: Oh, I love that. 00:00:54.229 --> 00:00:58.559 And again, you know, kudos to my husband and business partner who came up with that 00:00:58.559 --> 00:01:00.189 name after, you know, many late nights. 00:01:00.669 --> 00:01:02.309 Trying to come up with a company name. 00:01:02.809 --> 00:01:06.859 I am located in the very western tip of North Carolina. 00:01:07.499 --> 00:01:11.379 So, um, we are, people think, oh, you're, are you near the coast? 00:01:11.409 --> 00:01:16.129 Like, no, it's 546 miles to the coast of North Carolina. 00:01:16.139 --> 00:01:18.699 It's a very long, or long state, if you will. 00:01:19.179 --> 00:01:20.389 Um, but it's rural. 00:01:20.489 --> 00:01:26.339 It's very rural, but I'm two hours from, uh, several major cities, and 00:01:26.339 --> 00:01:31.484 we were, Up until just about two years ago, now we have two other positive 00:01:31.634 --> 00:01:35.744 reinforcement trainers locally, one of whom was a student of mine with the 00:01:35.744 --> 00:01:39.324 Victoria Steel Academy, and the other went through the academy, they're both 00:01:39.324 --> 00:01:44.754 graduates, so I'm so happy to be able to refer to them, because we only now, 00:01:44.754 --> 00:01:49.364 at Coldwells College, Brad and I have been focusing on, uh, educating the next 00:01:49.364 --> 00:01:52.774 generation of professional dog trainers through the Victoria Steel Academy. 00:01:54.284 --> 00:02:00.974 Um, so, um, here at, in this office, working from home, I'm focused on my 00:02:00.974 --> 00:02:05.794 own dog, of course, and helping him lead the best life he can possibly lead. 00:02:06.464 --> 00:02:11.054 And I'm still focused on promoting my book, Rocket Recall, which came out, 00:02:11.654 --> 00:02:15.444 gosh, almost three years ago now and is still doing well, but, um, we can 00:02:15.444 --> 00:02:17.894 talk a little bit about that later. 00:02:18.714 --> 00:02:26.719 Um, but I think my, my main mission now has been for lots of years, is making 00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:32.149 sure that my dog and those people I touch who have a dog, that people 00:02:32.149 --> 00:02:36.179 understand the most important thing you can do for your dog is helping them 00:02:36.179 --> 00:02:38.609 feel physically and emotionally safe. 00:02:41.269 --> 00:02:42.289 Because no matter what. 00:02:42.889 --> 00:02:46.479 What we want our dogs to learn, and we all want them to learn something, they 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:51.079 need to learn things to live, how to, how to live in our weird human world. 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:58.419 But if, if anyone, dog, person, rhino, fish, I mean, if, if a being 00:02:58.429 --> 00:03:02.489 doesn't feel safe physically and emotionally, they can't learn. 00:03:04.859 --> 00:03:11.679 So feeling emotionally and physically safe allows us to be able to learn. 00:03:12.464 --> 00:03:13.464 Anke: That's so true. 00:03:13.704 --> 00:03:16.254 And it's so overlooked still, 00:03:17.674 --> 00:03:18.104 Lisa: you know. 00:03:18.114 --> 00:03:18.874 I think it is. 00:03:18.904 --> 00:03:19.724 I think it is. 00:03:20.004 --> 00:03:23.974 Though, I'm so thankful that VSA, the Victoria Civil Academy, you know, we're 00:03:23.994 --> 00:03:29.144 teaching our students that there's a difference between just doing. 00:03:29.814 --> 00:03:34.304 So, 20 years ago, I've been doing, 21 years. 00:03:34.334 --> 00:03:35.494 How did that happen? 00:03:35.844 --> 00:03:36.964 I now have gray hair. 00:03:36.964 --> 00:03:38.124 I didn't when I started. 00:03:38.134 --> 00:03:38.544 Well, maybe. 00:03:41.744 --> 00:03:44.664 But I wanted my dog to do what I said. 00:03:44.824 --> 00:03:47.994 I was still training with positive reinforcement, but I wanted 00:03:48.264 --> 00:03:53.534 Sit when I say sit, lay down when I say lay down, go a mat. 00:03:53.844 --> 00:03:56.114 Now, it's all about choice. 00:03:56.164 --> 00:03:57.724 Or does it make sense? 00:03:57.804 --> 00:04:00.844 Why am I asking my dog to do that? 00:04:00.994 --> 00:04:02.874 Is that a skill that's needed? 00:04:03.504 --> 00:04:08.819 Um, so You know, again, with feeling physically and emotionally safe, 00:04:09.079 --> 00:04:17.719 empowering a being, dog or person, um, by giving them choice in their life is 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:21.759 what's critically, critically important. 00:04:22.014 --> 00:04:25.874 Anke: Yeah, I mean, could not agree more and it's, it's something that I 00:04:25.874 --> 00:04:30.554 got to experience with my two, I mean, the other two were, they, they came, you 00:04:30.554 --> 00:04:33.944 know, from puppy and there's a happy go lucky, nothing ever happened to them, 00:04:33.944 --> 00:04:37.704 so they kind of almost like they roll in a different way, but these two boys, 00:04:37.704 --> 00:04:43.434 they had a start that you think like no puppy should have and I, I experienced 00:04:43.434 --> 00:04:46.874 it, you know, all I could find was like train your dog to sit and train your 00:04:46.874 --> 00:04:48.534 dog and none of it worked with them. 00:04:49.544 --> 00:04:50.934 You know, none of it worked with them. 00:04:50.934 --> 00:04:54.394 So where that's what got me started, like there's got to be something else. 00:04:54.404 --> 00:04:55.644 There's something missing here. 00:04:55.644 --> 00:04:56.674 It doesn't make sense. 00:04:56.944 --> 00:05:03.774 So I'd be curious how, You know, what sparked your curiosity to look 00:05:03.814 --> 00:05:07.194 beyond the commands, especially with what you just said, when you 00:05:07.194 --> 00:05:09.264 said, well, I was training positive. 00:05:09.574 --> 00:05:13.584 So that was a good start, you know, but what sparked you 00:05:13.584 --> 00:05:14.854 to look in that direction? 00:05:14.974 --> 00:05:17.584 Lisa: Well, let me go back a little bit further in history. 00:05:17.874 --> 00:05:24.174 Um, I, Brad and I trained our first dog who came to us as a stray. 00:05:24.614 --> 00:05:28.184 With old fashioned aversive techniques, choke collars and prong collars, we 00:05:28.184 --> 00:05:31.884 found a trainer in Atlanta, lived in Atlanta at the time, and we 00:05:31.884 --> 00:05:34.014 wanted our dog to be well trained. 00:05:34.234 --> 00:05:36.064 We wanted our dog to behave. 00:05:36.464 --> 00:05:41.834 So, we went to class and we were issued a mat, a choke chain to throw at the 00:05:41.834 --> 00:05:45.254 dog, a prong collar, a choke collar. 00:05:46.244 --> 00:05:47.714 and a leash. 00:05:48.074 --> 00:05:52.944 And we were taught to use those tools very effectively and to 00:05:52.944 --> 00:05:55.784 alpha roll our dogs when they didn't do something that we liked. 00:05:57.424 --> 00:06:00.584 And then, um, an Australian Shepherd came into our home. 00:06:00.914 --> 00:06:02.484 We had longed for an Aussie. 00:06:02.484 --> 00:06:05.314 We'd moved to the, the mountains by then. 00:06:05.324 --> 00:06:06.614 We had lots of space. 00:06:06.624 --> 00:06:10.284 We knew The breed needed a lot of mental stimulation and exercise. 00:06:10.284 --> 00:06:11.344 We'd done our research. 00:06:11.864 --> 00:06:16.394 And so Carter joined our home and I wanted to do agility because 00:06:16.394 --> 00:06:17.844 there were no classes around me. 00:06:17.864 --> 00:06:22.074 I bought books and in the books, I learned about positive reinforcement. 00:06:23.214 --> 00:06:26.584 Oh my gosh, this is what my dad used on prison inmates. 00:06:26.594 --> 00:06:29.914 He was his chief psychology, chief psychologist at the 00:06:29.914 --> 00:06:31.644 prison system he worked in. 00:06:32.624 --> 00:06:34.764 And I started using it with Carter. 00:06:34.804 --> 00:06:35.234 And it's like, oh my gosh. 00:06:35.724 --> 00:06:40.794 Oh my gosh, I have immediate buy in, I have the most enthusiastic 00:06:40.804 --> 00:06:45.284 learner, he's happy, he wants to train with me, I don't have to feel 00:06:45.284 --> 00:06:50.174 bad because I feel like I'm hurting my dog, and the training's effective. 00:06:51.004 --> 00:06:54.974 And fast forward a few months, maybe six or eight months later, we 00:06:54.974 --> 00:06:59.684 took our first professional agility lesson, and two days later he was 00:06:59.714 --> 00:07:01.324 hit by a car and tragically killed. 00:07:02.934 --> 00:07:03.504 Anke: Oh my god. 00:07:03.974 --> 00:07:09.514 Lisa: So, um, that's, you'll learn about that in the, in my next book, but I, 00:07:09.864 --> 00:07:13.914 I went into a three month depression, didn't know it, didn't know that's what 00:07:13.914 --> 00:07:17.554 I was in at the time, but um, clawed myself out and said I want to learn 00:07:17.674 --> 00:07:20.964 to help people, want other, I want people to learn this a different way. 00:07:21.264 --> 00:07:24.074 I want to help other people learn, but it didn't mean I 00:07:24.074 --> 00:07:25.274 was going to be a dog trainer. 00:07:25.784 --> 00:07:29.324 I just wanted to like maybe help our shelter and help friends. 00:07:29.554 --> 00:07:32.334 Well, be careful, you know, when you set intentions. 00:07:32.334 --> 00:07:33.114 Be careful what you 00:07:33.114 --> 00:07:33.374 Anke: wish for. 00:07:34.194 --> 00:07:35.414 Lisa: Really delivered. 00:07:35.704 --> 00:07:38.054 So I already had that. 00:07:39.454 --> 00:07:42.434 But what caused me, even though I was using positive reinforcement, 00:07:42.964 --> 00:07:48.664 I think it was just evolving and trying to understand why am I really 00:07:48.704 --> 00:07:50.684 asking these things of my dog. 00:07:51.774 --> 00:07:58.734 Um, and because I was learning more about choice and who cares if your dog stands 00:07:59.334 --> 00:08:01.534 when you might have asked them to sit. 00:08:02.034 --> 00:08:05.904 You know, maybe we're just asking them to, to hang out. 00:08:06.224 --> 00:08:10.184 I'll say stay, my cue is wait, but hang out there for a minute until 00:08:10.184 --> 00:08:15.124 I, you know, ask you to move because maybe I'm opening the gate or I'm 00:08:15.134 --> 00:08:21.064 doing something that would make it not safe for my dog, but standing's fine. 00:08:21.064 --> 00:08:22.474 The dog doesn't need to sit. 00:08:23.034 --> 00:08:24.514 Do I care if he moves a lot? 00:08:24.514 --> 00:08:28.404 So I think it's just probably relaxing everything in our life, 00:08:28.454 --> 00:08:32.734 including my own pressure on myself. 00:08:33.194 --> 00:08:38.644 to be or do a certain way based on what professional dog training might 00:08:38.644 --> 00:08:40.864 have said you need to be, right? 00:08:42.344 --> 00:08:42.574 Anke: For sure. 00:08:42.574 --> 00:08:42.794 So 00:08:43.194 --> 00:08:48.074 Lisa: anything taken to the extreme can be maybe not the best. 00:08:49.094 --> 00:08:54.874 So, so thankfully Brad and I both, we've been on this evolution together 00:08:54.914 --> 00:08:57.244 through our whole life and career. 00:08:57.834 --> 00:09:00.514 And we're, we both feel that way. 00:09:00.584 --> 00:09:08.664 And I, I think in general, um, You know, child education, and 00:09:08.664 --> 00:09:12.184 I've not had children, so I can't speak to this personally, I think 00:09:12.184 --> 00:09:14.464 it's moved that way as well. 00:09:15.164 --> 00:09:20.404 Um, so, thinking, thinking about using positive reinforcement with my dogs 00:09:20.514 --> 00:09:25.004 has not only changed my dog's life, and feeling emotionally safe, and 00:09:25.004 --> 00:09:31.054 physically safe, and giving choice, but that bleeds into human relationships. 00:09:31.929 --> 00:09:36.139 And doesn't this world need more of that in general? 00:09:36.719 --> 00:09:37.319 Anke: For sure. 00:09:37.869 --> 00:09:44.849 So, I mean, this idea of a dog needs to feel safe before they can learn anything 00:09:44.849 --> 00:09:46.609 that makes all the sense in the world. 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:53.479 What are things that you, you would suggest people, like if 00:09:53.479 --> 00:09:55.089 I'm saying like, okay, all right. 00:09:55.109 --> 00:09:56.629 It's the first time I heard about this. 00:09:56.629 --> 00:09:57.459 How do you get started? 00:09:57.459 --> 00:10:01.509 How do I, how do I, you know, like, what does that even mean? 00:10:01.509 --> 00:10:02.779 What does that look like? 00:10:02.779 --> 00:10:06.049 I mean, I know when I feel safe or I don't, you know, like 00:10:06.079 --> 00:10:07.579 physically and or emotionally. 00:10:08.019 --> 00:10:11.184 So how will I know whether I don't feel safe? 00:10:12.064 --> 00:10:15.734 And because we also know they're kind of very good at hiding their distress, 00:10:16.004 --> 00:10:20.474 so it's not always that easy to tell how do I know whether my dog feels safe. 00:10:20.814 --> 00:10:26.954 And if I get a sense that my dog might not feel safe, then what are things 00:10:26.954 --> 00:10:30.004 that I can do to, to help them relax? 00:10:30.889 --> 00:10:33.259 Lisa: Brilliant, brilliant questions. 00:10:33.819 --> 00:10:40.239 So, in order to understand a person or a dog, in order to understand a being, we 00:10:40.239 --> 00:10:42.299 have to be able to speak their language. 00:10:43.179 --> 00:10:47.249 And, and if we can't speak to our dogs verbally, of course we can 00:10:47.249 --> 00:10:52.359 teach them words, but if we can't speak to them, how can we understand? 00:10:52.769 --> 00:10:57.319 Um, you know, humans, it might be neuro linguistic programming and understanding 00:10:57.329 --> 00:10:59.789 those body cues that people are giving us. 00:11:00.869 --> 00:11:04.169 Am I sitting back like this or am I, you know, really open? 00:11:04.549 --> 00:11:10.559 Well, if we take the time to learn about how dogs communicate with their body, what 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:18.879 I call dog body language, then we, we can begin to understand their stress signals, 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:25.854 their appeasing signals, their fear signals, their um, You know, I believe 00:11:25.854 --> 00:11:31.124 all aggression is based on fear, you know, because I'm going to aggress towards 00:11:31.124 --> 00:11:32.544 something that I might be afraid of. 00:11:32.834 --> 00:11:36.914 But taking the time to educate yourself, Lilly Chin is a great 00:11:36.934 --> 00:11:41.224 artist who does dog body language photos and has written a great book. 00:11:41.224 --> 00:11:44.934 There are many other resources out there, but understand how 00:11:44.984 --> 00:11:46.714 dogs communicate with their body. 00:11:48.704 --> 00:11:53.384 Certain signals like a paw lift could be an invitation to play or it could 00:11:53.384 --> 00:11:55.134 mean I'm a little fearful right now. 00:11:55.444 --> 00:12:01.174 So study that, learn that, and if you wonder, is my dog feeling safe? 00:12:01.544 --> 00:12:05.164 Take a few breaths, observe your dog for a few moments. 00:12:05.769 --> 00:12:09.079 If you think it's stress, move to another environment. 00:12:09.089 --> 00:12:11.619 Look around, look around, scan the environment. 00:12:11.629 --> 00:12:15.829 What's in the environment that might be problematic for that dog? 00:12:15.839 --> 00:12:19.299 You may think they shouldn't have a problem with it, but really 00:12:19.299 --> 00:12:21.499 it's all about what do they think. 00:12:22.379 --> 00:12:25.209 So if in doubt, Leave. 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:29.169 If in doubt, change the environment to one that that you think your 00:12:29.169 --> 00:12:30.859 dog might feel more comfortable 00:12:30.859 --> 00:12:32.119 Anke: in. 00:12:32.119 --> 00:12:37.459 And I think even that, that, that level of respect and empathy, I think it makes 00:12:37.459 --> 00:12:43.479 all the difference that you're even asking yourself, you know, how, like, yeah, I 00:12:43.479 --> 00:12:46.339 mean, what's that like for my dog, right? 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:48.739 So I think that is, that is a brilliant start. 00:12:49.069 --> 00:12:53.924 So, you know, In terms of body language, I mean, just remembering, you know, 00:12:53.924 --> 00:12:57.984 when I was researching all the different like, okay, how can I kind of, you know, 00:12:59.054 --> 00:13:05.694 get my two dogs to be, you know, well, I mean, I was never sort of looking for 00:13:05.754 --> 00:13:08.494 control or for like, you know, Obedience. 00:13:08.504 --> 00:13:09.924 I wouldn't, I was never into that. 00:13:09.944 --> 00:13:13.254 I wanted to communicate well enough to keep them safe. 00:13:13.314 --> 00:13:14.744 That's really all I wanted, right? 00:13:14.894 --> 00:13:19.114 That I could, you know, that's why the rocket call, recall, really caught my 00:13:19.114 --> 00:13:22.434 attention because I thought that was one of the things that I was like, 00:13:23.354 --> 00:13:26.584 you know, I want to make sure that I can call my dog and I know that, 00:13:26.894 --> 00:13:30.374 you know, if there's a car coming, whatever, that I can rely on that, 00:13:30.384 --> 00:13:32.704 that they'll at least stop, you know? 00:13:32.704 --> 00:13:39.249 So, but I'd be curious to, you know, because the main message I 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:42.569 took away is that like there's so much conflicting stuff out there. 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:47.329 Do you find that even when we're talking about body language are the experts 00:13:47.339 --> 00:13:52.444 in agreement or, you know, because I've seen a lot of things where Wow, 00:13:52.574 --> 00:13:54.164 let's just call the spade a spade. 00:13:54.374 --> 00:14:00.094 You know, I remember even somebody saying that the lot of the interpretation or 00:14:00.094 --> 00:14:06.424 what it's known about animal behavior is like male researchers interpreting 00:14:06.424 --> 00:14:11.794 a situation, you know, and what a man will say, look, there's an alpha dog 00:14:11.884 --> 00:14:13.674 who tries to dominate the other dog. 00:14:13.694 --> 00:14:17.329 A woman would look at this and I'm like, No, they're just trying to get on here. 00:14:17.329 --> 00:14:18.969 So it's like, who's looking at it? 00:14:18.969 --> 00:14:20.799 Who's describing the situation? 00:14:21.079 --> 00:14:23.159 Might paint an entirely different picture. 00:14:23.429 --> 00:14:25.549 Does that also apply to what's taught? 00:14:25.579 --> 00:14:26.489 Lisa: You know, I think it can. 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:27.359 I think it can. 00:14:27.359 --> 00:14:30.709 And, and I'm doing a lot of reading right now in our patriarchal society. 00:14:30.709 --> 00:14:36.739 So that could be a whole nother conversation that I'm really not 00:14:36.739 --> 00:14:39.849 qualified to talk about other than, you know, as women, we probably lived it. 00:14:40.179 --> 00:14:47.364 But, um, I think truly, if you If you start with what I think are 00:14:47.364 --> 00:14:53.724 trusted publications and trusted authors to, um, Dogwise is an 00:14:53.734 --> 00:14:59.534 entity that carries books that are scientifically and ethically sound. 00:15:00.064 --> 00:15:03.684 Um, at least that's, I don't think there are any that aren't focused 00:15:03.704 --> 00:15:07.854 on that, and certainly anything on the Positively site or the Victoria 00:15:07.854 --> 00:15:10.004 Stilwell site, you can trust. 00:15:10.004 --> 00:15:15.984 And again, Lily Chin, who has a great book and free downloads of posters 00:15:15.994 --> 00:15:18.054 on, for cats and dogs on her site. 00:15:18.054 --> 00:15:19.664 So that's a perfect way to start. 00:15:19.994 --> 00:15:21.514 But you mentioned Rocket Recall. 00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:24.649 My book, which I keep right beside me. 00:15:25.249 --> 00:15:27.769 Um, the, why did I write it? 00:15:27.789 --> 00:15:29.749 How can I say that in about four sentences? 00:15:29.749 --> 00:15:35.199 First, I wrote it to help people learn that there is a, uh, an effective, 00:15:36.029 --> 00:15:39.189 way that keeps your dog feeling physically, emotionally safe while 00:15:39.189 --> 00:15:41.979 you're training a life saving skill. 00:15:43.219 --> 00:15:45.069 So that's it, life saving skill. 00:15:45.069 --> 00:15:50.739 The first half of the book, I go into the training to behavior concepts 00:15:52.779 --> 00:15:57.449 that underlie, that are the foundation that we can then build upon. 00:15:57.669 --> 00:16:01.734 Not only The focus and attention or recall exercises in my book, but 00:16:01.774 --> 00:16:03.584 anything you want to teach your dog. 00:16:04.124 --> 00:16:07.674 So while you think, uh, do I really need recall? 00:16:07.684 --> 00:16:08.974 Well, I think you do. 00:16:08.994 --> 00:16:10.314 The call to come, right? 00:16:10.744 --> 00:16:14.544 The general population may not understand the word recall, but 00:16:14.544 --> 00:16:17.484 we're recalling a dog to us. 00:16:17.494 --> 00:16:19.324 We're recalling a child to us. 00:16:19.324 --> 00:16:21.204 Hey, Brad, come over here. 00:16:21.224 --> 00:16:23.334 We're recalling, you know, a person to us. 00:16:23.554 --> 00:16:27.814 But it's really, you know, Known as the, the Q, come. 00:16:28.724 --> 00:16:31.754 Um, I prefer other Qs that are more fun. 00:16:31.934 --> 00:16:37.954 My clients have chosen martini and happy hour and cookie because it's just a word. 00:16:37.994 --> 00:16:39.484 It's just a sound to a dog. 00:16:39.484 --> 00:16:42.384 Anke: And you don't, you also don't want to use something that you'll use all 00:16:42.384 --> 00:16:44.384 the time every day in everyday language. 00:16:44.384 --> 00:16:45.544 And the dog goes like, what? 00:16:46.684 --> 00:16:49.174 Lisa: And I don't like the word come for two reasons. 00:16:49.184 --> 00:16:52.314 One, if you've adopted a dog, you have no idea what that dog's prior 00:16:52.314 --> 00:16:53.824 experience with that word is. 00:16:53.834 --> 00:16:58.234 So they may have a A conditioned emotional response is not so, feeling so good to 00:16:58.234 --> 00:17:00.204 them like, Ah, I don't like that word. 00:17:00.554 --> 00:17:04.154 Or, it can be said in the hardest tone if we get frustrated. 00:17:04.304 --> 00:17:04.804 GUM! 00:17:05.899 --> 00:17:11.059 You know, who wants to come to somebody who looks scary and is speaking sternly, 00:17:11.069 --> 00:17:16.069 so, um, yeah, so, so that first half of the book goes through all those 00:17:16.089 --> 00:17:21.659 concepts, a tad bit of learning theory, just why, you know, why something 00:17:21.659 --> 00:17:27.859 works or why something doesn't, um, and is a good groundwork before you 00:17:27.859 --> 00:17:30.099 go into the recall training exercises. 00:17:30.829 --> 00:17:34.859 And the simplest exercises are teaching your dog name recognition. 00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:38.749 When I say my dog's name it means look at me and wait for further instruction. 00:17:39.659 --> 00:17:43.959 I thought of this yesterday as Keaton was headed for a creek which is just 00:17:44.449 --> 00:17:49.449 60 feet outside my office window and I didn't want him to get muddy again. 00:17:51.369 --> 00:17:54.429 So I just said And a happy toned one, Keaton! 00:17:54.849 --> 00:17:57.029 And he just, he'll probably come. 00:17:57.149 --> 00:17:59.259 He just looked at me like, Huh? 00:17:59.299 --> 00:17:59.849 What mom? 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:01.159 Let's go this way. 00:18:01.379 --> 00:18:07.099 So a simple name recognition, which is so easy to teach using the, the 00:18:07.109 --> 00:18:11.259 progressive steps in my book, can stop your dog from doing something. 00:18:11.269 --> 00:18:12.539 Not even a recall, right? 00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:13.739 I didn't call him to come. 00:18:14.269 --> 00:18:16.124 It prevented him from doing it. 00:18:16.364 --> 00:18:20.864 Launched it into the creek and prevented me from lots of mud on long hills. 00:18:20.934 --> 00:18:21.434 So life 00:18:21.434 --> 00:18:23.054 Anke: saving on both ends then, right? 00:18:25.814 --> 00:18:30.684 Lisa: Yeah, yeah, so, um, so yes. 00:18:31.744 --> 00:18:35.824 Feeling safe, physically, emotionally, feeling happy. 00:18:36.224 --> 00:18:38.874 Um, you know, how do we know our dogs are happy? 00:18:38.874 --> 00:18:40.814 Well, I think we know when they're joyful. 00:18:41.694 --> 00:18:47.214 You know, and it's important to let your dog be joyful and frolic and have fun. 00:18:48.864 --> 00:18:53.344 I talked about this just with Brad this morning. 00:18:53.904 --> 00:18:56.764 I was thinking about an email I want to send out to our community 00:18:56.884 --> 00:18:59.164 next week prior to Valentine's Day. 00:18:59.164 --> 00:19:04.864 I'm like, what's, what's the number one gift you can give your dog? 00:19:06.544 --> 00:19:07.814 And it's not tangible. 00:19:08.064 --> 00:19:09.224 It's not a product. 00:19:09.514 --> 00:19:10.284 It's time. 00:19:13.394 --> 00:19:14.914 Time, it makes me cry. 00:19:15.354 --> 00:19:17.694 Time well spent with your dog. 00:19:17.924 --> 00:19:22.184 Our dogs are social creatures and they want nothing more to be with us. 00:19:22.474 --> 00:19:28.054 Yet so many dogs are banished to other areas because maybe they don't 00:19:28.064 --> 00:19:30.274 have the manners their people want. 00:19:30.684 --> 00:19:34.354 Or if they're not, maybe that's not the case. 00:19:34.374 --> 00:19:37.789 Maybe Their people work all day, and so they get little 00:19:37.819 --> 00:19:39.399 interaction during the day. 00:19:39.849 --> 00:19:43.549 I would tell you that if, if you could ask a dog, what is it that 00:19:43.549 --> 00:19:47.959 you want more of from your human, they would say time with them. 00:19:49.819 --> 00:19:54.709 Anke: That makes me cry too, and it's one of, it's actually one of the reason 00:19:54.719 --> 00:20:01.294 that I had to, you know, that, I was 40 when I got my first dog because I 00:20:01.304 --> 00:20:03.914 always wanted a dog my entire life. 00:20:04.174 --> 00:20:07.024 You know, as a child, my parents wouldn't let me have one. 00:20:07.484 --> 00:20:13.484 And there was always the part of me that, well, I would, would have loved 00:20:13.574 --> 00:20:18.594 to have a dog and I understand because, you know, even as a child, it's like, 00:20:18.594 --> 00:20:20.244 yeah, my parents were both working. 00:20:20.264 --> 00:20:21.234 I was at school all day. 00:20:21.444 --> 00:20:21.714 Right. 00:20:21.984 --> 00:20:23.624 And that's always been the thing. 00:20:23.624 --> 00:20:27.504 It's like, I don't want a dog that's alone at home all day. 00:20:27.504 --> 00:20:27.584 Right. 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:33.429 So I waited until I moved to Spain, started my own business, where I 00:20:33.429 --> 00:20:37.239 could work from home and I could have the dog around every day, all day. 00:20:37.679 --> 00:20:39.779 And that's when I thought like, okay, I'm open. 00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:40.499 I can have it. 00:20:40.539 --> 00:20:44.399 I feel I can have a dog now, you know, because I think it's just not fair. 00:20:44.634 --> 00:20:46.784 If we can't give them the life that they deserve. 00:20:47.434 --> 00:20:52.124 Lisa: Yeah, it's, it really is a challenge to, if you have two working adults, 00:20:52.124 --> 00:20:57.284 or you're single, uh, how, how can you make sure your dog's needs are met? 00:20:57.304 --> 00:21:02.914 And so that's an overarching theme of feeling safe. 00:21:03.794 --> 00:21:08.224 Enrichment, physical exercise, social enrichment, I mean, that 00:21:08.224 --> 00:21:11.104 is really the crux of everything. 00:21:11.104 --> 00:21:13.284 How do we meet that being's needs? 00:21:13.694 --> 00:21:18.604 And, um, a lot of people aren't meeting their dog's needs because they just don't 00:21:18.654 --> 00:21:21.304 understand what those needs really are. 00:21:21.954 --> 00:21:25.444 Anke: So what are some of the most misunderstood needs that, 00:21:25.504 --> 00:21:27.574 that You see in your work. 00:21:29.304 --> 00:21:32.364 Lisa: I think, well, I think most people understand that 00:21:32.364 --> 00:21:34.284 physical exercise is needed. 00:21:34.734 --> 00:21:40.134 They don't understand that mental enrichment and mental stimulation 00:21:40.134 --> 00:21:44.224 can be as tiring and better for your dog than physical exercise. 00:21:44.634 --> 00:21:49.364 So if you are exercising your dog more in hopes of getting a calmer 00:21:49.364 --> 00:21:53.884 dog, think twice about it because you're really training an athlete. 00:21:54.724 --> 00:22:00.154 So that, that dog may need more calming enrichment, you know, time 00:22:00.154 --> 00:22:05.964 spent with your dog, slow body massage, a lot, take a long line. 00:22:05.974 --> 00:22:08.864 A long line to me is a 15 or 20 foot leash. 00:22:09.294 --> 00:22:14.704 And I like the, the, the, um, material biothane because it 00:22:14.704 --> 00:22:16.444 doesn't pick up dirt or water. 00:22:16.834 --> 00:22:18.364 And put your dog on a long line. 00:22:18.374 --> 00:22:19.464 Make sure you're safe. 00:22:19.554 --> 00:22:21.324 Maybe not so great for a neighborhood. 00:22:21.324 --> 00:22:24.304 You might need to find a non busy street. 00:22:24.794 --> 00:22:30.684 But take your dog on a 20 minute, what I call sniffy walk or dog led walk. 00:22:31.984 --> 00:22:37.184 The dogs see their world through their noses and it's so enriching 00:22:37.194 --> 00:22:39.174 for them to check out pemale. 00:22:40.084 --> 00:22:44.004 And, you know, you know, that's their social media. 00:22:44.764 --> 00:22:48.114 is they're checking in, they're checking out who's been there, what's there, what 00:22:48.114 --> 00:22:54.304 sex is the dog, and let them pee, let them mark, let them sniff, you know, 00:22:54.874 --> 00:22:59.554 don't drag the, oh for God's sake, please don't drag them away from a scent. 00:23:00.704 --> 00:23:05.104 That'd be like, for me, that would be like somebody taking an ice cream cone 00:23:05.154 --> 00:23:08.424 out of my hand and making me leave it. 00:23:08.899 --> 00:23:12.280 Slap your hand and then you'll have your morning coffee, I'll go slap you. 00:23:12.280 --> 00:23:14.009 I wouldn't be very happy about that. 00:23:14.009 --> 00:23:18.679 So, so I think that's probably the most misunderstood. 00:23:19.289 --> 00:23:21.659 You know, though, depending on environments, we live 00:23:21.659 --> 00:23:23.059 in a very rural area. 00:23:23.449 --> 00:23:26.549 We unfortunately have to see dogs who are chained. 00:23:28.819 --> 00:23:33.889 So, that dog's bottom level of the triangle, triangle, Maslow's 00:23:33.899 --> 00:23:38.579 hierarchy, Maslow's hierarchy, those dogs don't even have that. 00:23:39.139 --> 00:23:41.879 You know, so, it depends, it depends on where you are. 00:23:41.879 --> 00:23:49.059 But I think general, um, pet parents, dog owners, guardians, um, all of 00:23:49.059 --> 00:23:55.089 which I, I, you know, refer to them as periodically, is, can probably be. 00:23:55.439 --> 00:24:02.409 Um, a balance between physical exercise and, um, mental stimulation 00:24:02.459 --> 00:24:05.099 or, you know, mental enrichment. 00:24:05.719 --> 00:24:06.149 Um, 00:24:06.929 --> 00:24:07.139 Anke: yeah. 00:24:07.139 --> 00:24:12.949 It's beautiful to see that this becomes more recognized. 00:24:13.199 --> 00:24:18.919 It's funny because when I had like my first dog, Leo, you know, to be 00:24:18.929 --> 00:24:22.219 honest, I thought, well, that's the only thing that makes sense to me. 00:24:23.024 --> 00:24:26.734 You know, I would let him sniff and I'm like, yeah, okay, I won't let 00:24:26.734 --> 00:24:31.404 you pee in the neighbor's door, you know, whatever, you know, but, but 00:24:31.434 --> 00:24:35.684 I would definitely, I still to this day think, well, my job on this walk 00:24:35.714 --> 00:24:39.984 is like your bodyguard, you know, so it's my job to make sure you're safe. 00:24:39.984 --> 00:24:43.534 There's no, like, keep an eye on, you know, to make sure you're not getting 00:24:43.534 --> 00:24:47.324 yourself in situations that, that are kind of dangerous for anybody. 00:24:47.324 --> 00:24:47.444 Yeah. 00:24:47.614 --> 00:24:52.394 But other than that, the purpose of the walk is for you to be able to, you 00:24:52.394 --> 00:24:57.994 know, sniff and have a good time and, you know, and get a bit of choice, you 00:24:57.994 --> 00:25:02.104 know, and so I will literally, and you know, the amount, but the thing is like 00:25:02.104 --> 00:25:06.554 now I'm living in a, you know, in a beach town and it's quiet and so nobody 00:25:06.554 --> 00:25:10.044 messes, and I also have two really big dogs now, so nobody messes with me, which 00:25:10.044 --> 00:25:15.774 is brilliant, but when I had the little ones, the boys, it was just the amount of 00:25:18.284 --> 00:25:22.724 Well, call it criticism I got, you know, when people go, well, you know, 00:25:22.804 --> 00:25:26.734 you look at her, like it started from like, you know, sort of when, when 00:25:26.734 --> 00:25:29.694 you can hear them, like, you know, when you walk past and go, look at 00:25:29.704 --> 00:25:34.004 her being dragged along the street, you know, and that wasn't even true. 00:25:34.024 --> 00:25:39.034 It was just, you know, I didn't have an eight foot, I had a shorter leash or 00:25:39.034 --> 00:25:42.834 like my parents would always try this retractable one, that weren't a good 00:25:42.834 --> 00:25:46.989 idea, but you know, But, um, you know, basically try and give them some space 00:25:47.019 --> 00:25:50.549 and sometimes you go, oh look there's something and then I'd be after that. 00:25:50.549 --> 00:25:53.609 So, but I mean the dog would lead, you know, and I'd be like, all 00:25:53.609 --> 00:25:57.419 right, you know, as long as you don't drag me along the street, I'm fine. 00:25:57.429 --> 00:25:59.409 But the amount of, like, look at her. 00:25:59.689 --> 00:26:01.289 And then you'd go, well, I No, no, no. 00:26:01.289 --> 00:26:02.529 You need to be the boss. 00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:04.549 The dog can't be in front of you. 00:26:04.549 --> 00:26:08.119 The dog needs to be beside you and you can't let them pee where they want. 00:26:08.409 --> 00:26:12.149 And that's just never made sense to me and it feels so reassuring, 00:26:12.789 --> 00:26:17.599 you know, now hearing people like you saying, well, actually that's, 00:26:18.009 --> 00:26:19.939 they should get walks like that, 00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:20.449 Lisa: you know? 00:26:20.459 --> 00:26:21.559 Yeah, absolutely. 00:26:21.569 --> 00:26:24.099 You know, I am here to tell you, thankfully, I think. 00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:26.379 Hopefully. 00:26:26.709 --> 00:26:30.889 That old fashioned dominance theory that's been debunked for decades and decades. 00:26:31.329 --> 00:26:38.739 Um, uh, there's less and less of that, but I am here after 21 years of professional 00:26:38.739 --> 00:26:42.519 dog training, living with my dogs, I'm here to tell you that your dog is 00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:44.479 not conspiring to take over the world. 00:26:45.409 --> 00:26:46.249 Absolutely not. 00:26:46.489 --> 00:26:48.669 And I was thinking about this last week and I was walking because 00:26:48.669 --> 00:26:53.209 I'm, I'm, yeah, because of all these years I've been dog trained. 00:26:53.209 --> 00:26:57.219 I've been thinking about clients I've had in the past and there was a client I went 00:26:57.219 --> 00:27:04.379 to see for the first time, um, had this beautiful, um, I think it was a poodle and 00:27:04.459 --> 00:27:10.439 I was just coming in and we were beginning to talk about things and they had a few. 00:27:11.019 --> 00:27:14.749 really minor issues, uh, that they thought were really big. 00:27:14.869 --> 00:27:15.899 Okay, big to them. 00:27:15.899 --> 00:27:16.649 That's important. 00:27:16.709 --> 00:27:19.069 We need, need to address the client's needs. 00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:20.509 They have needs too. 00:27:21.269 --> 00:27:28.369 But, um, the man got up out of his recliner to go get something in the 00:27:28.369 --> 00:27:33.289 other room and the dog jumped up on the, on the recliner and laid down. 00:27:33.289 --> 00:27:37.619 He came back and said, see, see, he's being dominant. 00:27:38.419 --> 00:27:42.119 I said, Have you ever thought, have you ever stopped to think 00:27:42.569 --> 00:27:46.199 that that just might be more comfortable than the hardwood floors? 00:27:48.569 --> 00:27:49.299 I never thought of that. 00:27:51.269 --> 00:27:51.959 So 00:27:53.989 --> 00:27:56.449 Anke: yeah, there's, I think there's still a bit of work to do, right? 00:27:56.449 --> 00:28:00.879 I think there is, there's, it's a lot of, a lot has changed. 00:28:01.674 --> 00:28:03.164 I think there's a lot of movement. 00:28:03.164 --> 00:28:06.574 It feels there's quite a bit of momentum in a much nicer direction, 00:28:06.954 --> 00:28:09.874 but, um, you know, I think there's still a bit of work to 00:28:09.874 --> 00:28:10.784 Lisa: do. 00:28:10.784 --> 00:28:13.354 You know, I think we'll always, there will always be that. 00:28:13.354 --> 00:28:18.394 I think the curve, hopefully, is a little bit different, but there, there's, I'm 00:28:18.394 --> 00:28:26.574 so, I'm so thrilled when I see people on the street, um, and of course it's 00:28:26.584 --> 00:28:31.014 not much here because we, we're 15 miles outside of a town of 1500 people, so I 00:28:31.014 --> 00:28:36.054 don't get to town or do city, you know, the urban, my little small town walks with 00:28:36.054 --> 00:28:40.474 my dog much, but I'm out in other places and I'm seeing people with their dogs. 00:28:40.934 --> 00:28:43.214 It just thrills me to see harnesses. 00:28:43.774 --> 00:28:46.274 You know, so nothing's around their neck that could damage 00:28:46.274 --> 00:28:48.384 their esophagus or their trachea. 00:28:48.904 --> 00:28:53.594 Um, and I keep telling all of my students that something that would be 00:28:53.594 --> 00:28:58.994 very good for their business And did I mention, yeah, Aspiring Dog Training 00:28:59.374 --> 00:29:02.114 Professionals is get a little card. 00:29:02.194 --> 00:29:03.064 I never did this. 00:29:03.064 --> 00:29:04.684 I said I was going to do it, never did it. 00:29:04.924 --> 00:29:06.444 So somebody else needs to do it. 00:29:06.444 --> 00:29:08.924 Get a little bit like business shaped card. 00:29:09.344 --> 00:29:11.654 And of course have your business information on one side of it, 00:29:11.954 --> 00:29:15.764 but the other side have it be Um, I'll call it a click treat. 00:29:15.774 --> 00:29:19.914 Have it be a compliment, like, Thank you for being a dog guardian today. 00:29:20.574 --> 00:29:24.154 Thanks for being kind to your dog, however you want to phrase it. 00:29:24.574 --> 00:29:28.654 And then when you see people doing awesome things with their dogs, 00:29:28.654 --> 00:29:33.104 which is 99 percent of the time, Give them that positive reinforcement. 00:29:33.464 --> 00:29:36.464 Let them know that It works for the owners too, right? 00:29:37.264 --> 00:29:39.234 Yeah, absolutely, it does. 00:29:39.484 --> 00:29:42.654 You know, we did, we just retired from, um, teaching a 00:29:42.674 --> 00:29:44.164 dog training prison program. 00:29:44.334 --> 00:29:47.384 So we spent twelve and a half years, every Thursday we were in jail. 00:29:48.244 --> 00:29:56.119 And to see the detainees go from Maybe week three, when we start introducing the 00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:02.559 concept on week one, and start working with dogs, and you know, helping them 00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:05.639 understand what positive reinforcement is, and no, we're not going to use 00:30:05.639 --> 00:30:09.599 that old fashioned stuff because most, most of them come with that from the 00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:14.419 environments they've been raised in, um, because that's how they were raised. 00:30:14.749 --> 00:30:21.899 It's about week three, a couple of the detainees with children will say, I 00:30:22.029 --> 00:30:23.899 can probably use this with my children. 00:30:23.959 --> 00:30:29.519 I can't you can, it works with people too. 00:30:30.259 --> 00:30:35.279 And thank you Karen Pryor, Now in Heaven, who helped us understand all of that 00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:40.659 in the book, Don't Shoot the Dog, which was written as a little management text, 00:30:40.899 --> 00:30:42.889 not a dog trainer text, by the way. 00:30:43.089 --> 00:30:44.119 Anke: Isn't that interesting, right? 00:30:44.789 --> 00:30:48.429 I would Actually, I would love to have you back about that prison 00:30:48.429 --> 00:30:51.859 experiment because I've read things about experiments like that or projects 00:30:51.859 --> 00:30:53.909 like that, and I'm totally intrigued. 00:30:53.929 --> 00:30:56.059 So that I would love to have you back. 00:30:56.109 --> 00:30:56.559 Oh, yes. 00:30:56.829 --> 00:30:56.969 I'm 00:30:57.049 --> 00:31:00.859 Lisa: going to raise my hand to come back and I'll definitely talk about that. 00:31:00.859 --> 00:31:02.489 It's something I love so much. 00:31:02.869 --> 00:31:07.779 And then also, um, The next book I'm writing, which is entitled, The Death 00:31:07.779 --> 00:31:14.089 of a Dog Changes You, um, in addition to losing Carter, um, I lost a dog at 00:31:14.089 --> 00:31:20.789 six years old, and then in this book, um, when you, you buy it, the, your, um, 00:31:20.829 --> 00:31:25.094 listeners will buy it, or your watchers will buy it, you'll, this is about 00:31:25.094 --> 00:31:30.529 Kaylee, and how I worked with her, and two weeks, she was four, two weeks after 00:31:30.529 --> 00:31:34.039 this was released, she died suddenly. 00:31:35.069 --> 00:31:35.409 This is 00:31:35.669 --> 00:31:36.139 Anke: heartbreaking. 00:31:36.179 --> 00:31:36.559 Lisa: Yeah. 00:31:36.829 --> 00:31:37.129 Yeah. 00:31:37.129 --> 00:31:41.569 And so every dog has brought monumental changes to me 00:31:41.569 --> 00:31:42.999 personally and professionally. 00:31:43.399 --> 00:31:46.379 And so, yeah, um, that's the next. 00:31:46.389 --> 00:31:46.629 Well, 00:31:46.909 --> 00:31:49.619 Anke: that means I'm going to have to, but I have to have you back twice. 00:31:50.469 --> 00:31:54.259 In the meantime, let people know where they can find out about you. 00:31:54.609 --> 00:31:56.379 You know, I'm going to pop the book. 00:31:56.804 --> 00:31:59.614 Book link and everything's going to be in the show notes. 00:32:00.044 --> 00:32:01.284 Lisa: You can find us two places. 00:32:01.284 --> 00:32:04.444 One, really they're the same, just two different pages on our website. 00:32:04.444 --> 00:32:06.324 One is coldnosecollege. 00:32:06.324 --> 00:32:06.774 com. 00:32:07.864 --> 00:32:09.044 The other is rocketrecall. 00:32:10.204 --> 00:32:10.574 com. 00:32:11.704 --> 00:32:18.014 So, um, you have a link that you can add or add, which you can download the quick 00:32:18.014 --> 00:32:22.504 reference guide to the 12 most important, important points to Rocket Recall. 00:32:22.834 --> 00:32:25.834 So, you know, it's proven that if you just pick up something to look 00:32:25.834 --> 00:32:27.124 at a couple times a day, sure. 00:32:28.094 --> 00:32:31.904 bits of, of reading that it starts to cement in your memory. 00:32:31.904 --> 00:32:34.544 So that's why that's a free download. 00:32:34.994 --> 00:32:40.534 Um, and then there is a Rocket Recall instructor handouts for trainers that 00:32:40.534 --> 00:32:44.824 gives them, um, 19 handouts so they can give them to their clients when 00:32:44.824 --> 00:32:48.474 they're ready to progress in the, in the systematic progressive road, uh, program. 00:32:48.914 --> 00:32:49.534 Protocol. 00:32:50.024 --> 00:32:57.794 And then there is a online course over 42 video, how to videos, and 00:32:57.844 --> 00:33:03.754 90 photos, which takes you through in an online course, this book. 00:33:04.394 --> 00:33:10.004 Both the Um, online course and the handouts are about to have steep 00:33:10.004 --> 00:33:16.514 discounts because Valentine's Day is coming up, that v in, in in Valentine, 00:33:16.514 --> 00:33:21.864 how deep that V shape is, those are gonna be the deep discounts for 00:33:21.984 --> 00:33:22.434 Anke: Ooh. 00:33:22.524 --> 00:33:22.974 Awesome. 00:33:22.974 --> 00:33:26.244 So we're gonna make sure that go, comes out before that happens so 00:33:26.244 --> 00:33:27.654 people can take advantage of it. 00:33:27.729 --> 00:33:28.224 And, and 00:33:28.224 --> 00:33:30.924 Lisa: if I didn't provide you with a follow up, and I'll give you those 00:33:30.924 --> 00:33:32.429 links so you can add those as well. 00:33:33.024 --> 00:33:33.424 Anke: Awesome. 00:33:33.814 --> 00:33:35.114 Well, thank you so much. 00:33:35.304 --> 00:33:38.694 This was absolutely delightful and I'm already looking forward to the next one. 00:33:39.144 --> 00:33:39.784 Lisa: Oh, thank you. 00:33:39.814 --> 00:33:40.814 I am too, Anke. 00:33:40.984 --> 00:33:43.414 I just can't thank you enough and stay warm. 00:33:44.054 --> 00:33:44.524 I will. 00:33:45.114 --> 00:33:45.274 Thank you. 00:33:46.064 --> 00:33:46.844 You're welcome. 00:33:48.021 --> 00:33:49.251 Thanks so much for listening. 00:33:49.771 --> 00:33:54.071 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:33:54.171 --> 00:33:55.951 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:33:56.741 --> 00:34:00.231 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:34:00.661 --> 00:34:06.231 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:34:06.331 --> 00:34:08.701 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:34:08.701 --> 00:34:12.431 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:34:12.851 --> 00:34:13.991 I'd love an introduction. 00:34:14.471 --> 00:34:16.301 Email me at Anke. 00:34:16.571 --> 00:34:20.806 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.