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Who else loves the Twilight movies? Jess and Scott watched the movies together when they were dating, and today, they talk with one of their favourite actresses from this series, Ashley Greene! In this raw and revealing episode, Ashley opens up about her journey to motherhood and the importance of reparenting yourself first.
She openly talks about the challenges of postpartum, like the pressure to get your baby to sleep through the night. Jess and Ashley dive deep into the internal work she did to regulate her emotions and break negative cycles before having her daughter. Ashley also gets candid about the challenges of balancing a thriving career with being a present mother and learning to let go of perfectionism.
Ashley and Jess also talk about women's health, periods, and how to raise daughters to feel no shame about their bodies. At the end of the episode, Scott and Jess talk about raising their daughters and how Scott can talk to their girls about periods!
Hear more from Ashley Greene on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/ashleygreene/], and check out Hummingway [https://www.instagram.com/ourhummingway/], her company focused on education about reproductive and hormonal health.
Send us an email at podcast@robotunicorn.net to share how you've started teaching your kids about periods!
Get 10% OFF parenting courses and kids' printable activities at Nurtured First using the code ROBOTUNICORN. [https://nurturedfirst.com/courses/]
Learn more about the Solving Bedtime Battles course here [https://nurturedfirst.com/courses/solving-bedtime-battles/].
Credits:
Editing by The Pod Cabin [https://thepodcabin.com/]
Artwork by Wallflower Studio [https://www.wallflowerstudio.co/]
Production by Nurtured First [https://nurturedfirst.com/]
Join me, Jess VanderWier, a registered psychotherapist, mom of three, and founder of Nurtured First, along with my husband Scott, as we dive deep into the stories of our friends, favourite celebrities, and influential figures.
In each episode, we skip the small talk and dive into vulnerable and honest conversations about topics like cycle breaking, trauma, race, mental health, parenting, sex, religion, postpartum, healing, and loss.
We are glad you are here.
PS: The name Robot Unicorn comes from our daughter. When we asked her what we should name the podcast, she confidently came up with this name because she loves robots, and she loves unicorns, so why not? There was something about the playfulness of the name, the confidence in her voice, and the fact that it represents that you can love two things at once that just felt right.
Welcome to Robot Unicorn.
We are so glad that you are here.
As always, let's start the show with a question from Scott.
Alright, Jess.
Is it too on the nose to ask Edward or Jacob?
Have we discussed this before?
Edward or Jacob?
I'm talking years ago.
Like truthful I I don't know.
Well, I mean I feel like the answer is very clear.
Is it
I think.
Who do you think I would choose?
Before I say, I already know who I'm gonna say.
Well, my younger self, I was compared
to Taylor Lautner.
So I hope you would choose Jacob.
Yeah, Scott has been told that he looks this is a long time ago, but long time ago.
No, I looked younger.
When you looked younger.
And when the movie was really popular, there was a few times he was told that he looked like Taylor Wattner.
But yes, obviously Team Jacob.
I mean, for so many reasons.
But when this episode was recorded we were in the strike, so Ashley wasn't able to talk at all about Twilight, but I was going to ask her about it.
And I was gonna ask her if in reflection on Twilight, if it's actually quite creepy that Edward, who's been alive for like what, hundreds of years or a hundred years or whatever it is
is like trying to date this teenage girl.
Like I just feel like the whole thing is actually quite creepy and he's cold and like why would you choose him when you could have someone who is
Not an old man in his mind.
I don't know.
That's just me.
That's just me.
Okay.
Is that the answer you thought you was gonna give?
Yes.
I figured.
Okay, real question though.
Why shouldn't you tell your kids, because I think this is a common thing for people to say because it's positive, why shouldn't you tell your kids you are so smart?
Yeah, I love that.
Ashley, you brought this up.
And I don't think it's never tell your kids that they're so smart.
I think we can take things on Instagram to be so black and white, right?
I've done a post before saying that maybe
telling your kids all the time you're so smart isn't going to serve them the best over time because when they hear the message constantly or they're constantly praised for their intelligence versus for the
process of learning, they'll learn that they want to be smart, they want to get the A.
And then they can start to become a very difficult
on themselves if they don't get an A on the test or if they don't think that they're smart or if they're not praised for being smart.
So if our only focus is what are your grades
or only praising them when they actually do really well on a test, we can actually lead to perfectionism because they will feel like, oh, I'm only worthy or I'm only smart if I get an A or if I get praise for my intelligence.
So you're not saying
Never say you're you're so smart.
There's nuance to it.
It's more that you want to give your kids different types of praise for different reasons.
You shouldn't focus when they're in school on
you need to get 100% or you need to get A plus or that kind of thing.
It's more the process of learning and helping them enjoy reading, math.
Whatever, all the different subjects.
Exactly.
Like I think about our daughter, who's currently learning how to read.
Yep.
And if we only ever praised her when she read a book perfectly and we said, Yay, you read this book perfectly, you're doing amazing
She would only ever want to read when she can do it perfectly.
And then if she couldn't read perfectly, it would become very frustrating for her.
She might be down on herself.
But instead we do it different.
We actually praise the process.
So we notice the process of reading.
Like wow, I noticed this word was really hard for you.
And you tried and you tried and you tried.
And now look at you.
You have a huge smile on your face because you figured out how to say the word.
That's really big.
So focusing on the process instead of the outcome is really key in helping our kids develop a love of learning and not be so hard on themselves.
Yeah, a love of the actual process itself.
Yeah.
And I think that's really difficult.
And Ashley talked a lot about how that was difficult for her throughout her life because then if you're only praised for being smart or sports is another really good
Example, if you're only ever praised for being really good at sports, when you don't do it as good as you want to, you can be very critical and hard on yourself.
It can lead to anxiety, and that's a big part of her story.
But in this episode, Ashley and I, it was such an enjoyable conversation with her.
We talked about so much from perfectionism and cycle breaking and being a mom and the nuance that comes in parenthood
So I don't wanna get too much into this here.
I think we should just jump right into the episode.
Uh I saw Kingsley just turned one, so congratulations.
That's huge.
I feel like the first year.
Getting that under your belt.
That's such a milestone.
Oh yeah.
And it is like I experienced too, well I feel like it like experienced this at six months and then nine months and then a year.
Like I felt like there were these kind of like
leaps that happened where all of a sudden it just got progressively easier.
And I don't know if that's because it's my first and like everything was really challenging at the start.
And I was just like, what is this
What is this fourth trimester?
And when do I get out of it?
But yeah, it's like the more we get to know one another, the more fun it becomes.
And then like I think there's something to her being able to finally communicate with us that's really extremely helpful.
And you're like, you know
Her personality's coming out and like I feel like everyone's just like has settled into their positions in the household, her included.
Yeah, I feel like the first year, uh, I'm curious, was it what you expected or do you feel like it was totally different than what you thought being a mom was going to be like this last year?
You know what, I tried not to go into it with expectation.
I tried to do the opposite, actually, because I feel like I kept seeing like
when you have these expectations or like you put these expectations on your child, like that is where you get into a lot of trouble.
And so I kind of was just like, listen, I'm going to I did a lot of work on myself
for like three years before we had a child because I knew that there was some work to be done and I have enough friends with kids that I knew that
They will trigger you in so many ways and they will pull out anything that you haven't dealt with and and they will teach you about yourself in ways that you don't necessarily want to be taught.
sometimes and so I tried to like really do work on myself before having the baby and try not to put like expectation on her and try not to make her into a robot.
Like that was the other thing that I
I saw a lot where where people kind of I think struggle.
Mind you, this is my intention and and I'm a human, so there are times that I fail with that.
But that approach for me has been really helpful because it is kind of like, you know, they're like I keep reminding myself where I'm like, you've only been out
Of my stomach for three months longer than you were in it.
And it's like really fascinating to see how quickly she's learning all these things.
Like I keep reminding myself, like, you didn't know anything.
Like you didn't know how to survive, you didn't you don't know how to talk, you don't know how to walk, you didn't know how to eat, you didn't know like you didn'
know what your emotions were, which you're still obviously with that's gonna be a hole, process of figuring that out, but like
Yeah, I really try and like remind myself that like this is it is my responsibility to try and teach you how to be a human being and how to navigate this world.
It is not your responsibility to know how to do these things.
It's not your responsibility for me to understand that, right?
And so
That's the mindset that I tried to use going into it.
Wow.
So you were talking about like the work that you did before becoming a parent, which I first of all, I just love that you did that before becoming a parent and like knowing that, okay, this is something
I'm probably going to get triggered and you've watched your other friends become parents.
Do you mind sharing a little bit about what that looked like?
Like doing the work before becoming a parent?
Yeah, definitely.
I knew that I wasn't really taught how or didn't understand how to regulate my emotions in the most effective way possible
I've always had kind of a quick temper or like a short fuse maybe versus a quick temper.
But I for a very long time
didn't process my emotions.
Like I just kind of was like, we'll sweep those under the rug and keep going because I was very focused on whatever the end goal was and I was very wrapped into
my worth being being connected to my career or my productivity.
And I have a really strong work ethic, which I'm I'm grateful for.
And I want to instill that in my child, but I just think that I didn't necessarily have the tools
that I needed to be able to kind of unpack myself and and my emotions and so I kind of knew that was something that I wanted to to
figure out before I had a child because I didn't want them to deal with the same kind of struggles that I've dealt with and and didn't realize
that I was suppressing until until I started having these kind of cracks in the armor.
And like I just spoke to I partnered up with a company called Aura Health and spoke about dealing with
anxiety attacks and my self-worth and having moments of like self-loathing and just was it really like not in in the best place and it what's so interesting is that I didn't
realize it until these things started to crack and I kind of went, something is very wrong here and uh had to to to kind of hit this low place and stop and really like reprogram the way that I approach life and the way that I approach
any kind of like pressures and the way that I approached myself and and and self-love.
And a lot of that I'm really grateful for my husband because he had a very different
upbringing in the sense that like this was kind of an open box for him and he he understood kind of how to manage his emotions and so we did a lot of work together.
And I and I say this in
I think my parents did a really good job raising us.
I just don't think sometimes like I have access to a lot of information that they didn't necessarily have access to.
And so it's kind of all about, you know, now that it that we do have that access kind of
Going, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna try and and break this cycle if I can, or try my my very, very best.
So it was a long um process and that was like
a lot of it was meditation and breath work and kind of speaking my thoughts and feelings and admitting where I was in life and the uh the other half it was making sure like
Fitness and and health fell in line.
I stopped drinking.
I got off every prescription I had ever been on, and I felt like I really needed to like create a new baseline.
And so all of those things happened before Kingsley was born and I'm so grateful because I think it would have exacerbated everything had I not done that.
Absolutely.
I think
It's so beautiful that you actually knew that about yourself and you knew enough to be like, okay, I want to do this internal work before I have a baby.
Because I mean, so many of the moms that I've worked with or my friends who have become parents or even ourselves when we first became parents
we didn't have time to do that work first or we didn't think to do the work first or think that we needed it and then going into parenthood while you're also trying to reparent yourself and break cycles and reflect on your own childhood experiences can definitely be
a lot.
You said so many things that I want to touch on, but one of the things that you were saying is things started to kind of crack and break open.
And I wonder if you could speak a little bit more to what was happening.
when you started to notice, okay, I can't just like have a temper or sweep my emotions under the rug or or just like not cope with my emotions anymore, what was the thing that kind of made you be like, I have to, I have to tune in with myself and and figure out how to support myself?
Yeah, I think, you know, there was certainly like having full blown panic or like anxiety attacks were certainly one of the things.
And at the time I was like
And st still though, even I I don't think I had the n know-how at that point.
I was like, oh I'll just get a medication to to do like to fix that and then move forward.
I think like once I got past, like I was a part of this incredible phenomenon.
And at the time it seemed great, and I felt like I knew how to manage it and and everything was okay.
And then afterwards, I think that's when like you start seeing things unravel a little bit because I really started to see that my worth was connected to
things other than who I am as a human.
It was connected to what my career was and and how much how productive I was.
And I just saw that no matter how hard I tried or how hard I worked
I just didn't feel happy and I didn't have love for myself and I saw other people have all of this like respect and appreciation and love for me, but I didn't reciprocate.
Or I didn't feel the same for myself.
And so I just kind of started to see like something's wrong.
And I and I started to go into like of course like we would go out and like
drink too much on the weekends and then like Monday I would feel horrible about myself.
But like it was like and I started to see this also like negative habit to where like if I was stressed out I was like, oh I just need a drink.
And like that's kind of the worst time that you should drink
Honestly, if you want to like drink socially, sure.
But like if you're drinking to not deal with something or or cover something up, like that is that is a problem
And so I just kind of started to see all of these things.
And my husband's also very vocal with me.
Like he's unafraid of hurting my feelings is the wrong term, but he's not walking on eggshells with me.
He's certainly not a yes friend, because there's a lot of those in Hollywood.
And
You know, we had just a very serious sit-down and said, okay, there's something that that needs to something's got to give here.
And yeah, and we just kind of took it from there.
So of course you you were going through a huge rise to fame and it was a franchise that everyone was familiar with and all of a sudden you're you're a face that's seen in in all sorts of homes.
And you were mentioning how your happiness was becoming tied to to your career and to your goals and to your job.
Is that something that you felt before this kind of
fast rise to fame or is that something that you think you can kind of tie back to maybe childhood experiences?
Like you were already as a kid, I I mean I we see this so often in kids, right?
Like they're just
Seeking for praise and they they want to kind of be seen for their accomplishments, for being smart.
Like do you think you can see it all the way back then, or was that something that was building over time?
I think for sure.
I don't think I recognized it obviously.
Like I think I became part of this like a like this pressure cooker, right?
So it like intensified everything.
But I certainly do think that like I was always like there was this idea in our household that if you weren't good at something, you could work hard enough to become good at it.
And that was something that I took pride in, which is fine until
that becomes, I think, intricately entwined in who you are.
And there was like I just saw something the other day that was saying like you shouldn't always say to your kid when they succeed, you're so smart.
you're so smart because then it becomes part of their DNA and part and they feel like if they're not smart and if they're not going to succeed, they're they start becoming afraid to even try because they're afraid of
failing and not being the smartest and not being the best.
And I think that that was something that I like immediately kind of latched on to because that was I could definitely see that from my youth.
kind of becoming a big part of of who I was as an adult and becoming a big part of the problem because my fear of failure was almost paralyzing at times and I had to really work around the way that I saw
Failure in the way that I looked at it.
So yeah, I think it's definitely something like when I was a kid it was like we became good at everything, right?
And like we worked really hard and
I was in honors classes and I graduated early.
Like there was definitely like you can definitely see the pattern of me as a child and how it had an effect of on me as an adult.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah, I think we see that so often in kids who exactly what you're saying, who are praised for being smart.
We've talked a lot that a lot on Nurtured First too.
It's like as parents, we want to praise our kids and and I see this even with my six and a half year old who
Of course I'm biased, but I think it is so smart, right?
And and the and that's just us as parents, right?
We want to say you're so smart or you're the best on the team or you're the best at this.
But I think the issue can become when we only praise kids for their abilities, their intellect or their athletic abilities, then they can just seek to continue to do more and more and more of that
for more of our praise and it can lead to success, like you were saying, but it can also lead to this almost paralyzing fear inside of our body of like
Well, what if I'm not enough?
Or what if it's not good enough?
And it sounds like that's kind of the point that you got when you were saying those cracks started to form and it started to be really hard for you to cope with your emotions.
And it sounds like that came out in panic.
For sure
And like I think sometimes self-deprecation, right?
Because there's this instinct to be like, well, if I say I'm not that great, then the expectation is not that high, but then you perform well and everyone praises you.
Right?
Like I certainly saw that pattern too.
So yeah.
And it's still hard, like to your point, like because also like this is all I know, right
Like this is how I was raised.
And so it's the instinct and the the easy thing to do is to go like I'm always like you're so s I still say it.
Where I'm like, oh my gosh, you're so smart.
But like trying to reprogram myself to praise her for
trying and having a unique idea and not al you know, I think I saw something else that someone said that her parent like her dad would always say, like, I want to know what did you do today and how did you fail.
And I thought that was such a beautiful way of approaching things because it really taught them like, listen, if you're not failing, then you're not doing something right.
Like you should be putting yourself out there.
You should be kind of like pushing boundaries and like if
If it doesn't come out the way that you expect it to, what do you do to kind of pivot from that and how do you learn from that versus kind of like letting this like failure be the end all be all?
And so
That's certainly something that I I wasn't necessarily taught and and that's something that I want to pass on to her because I think it's really important
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
My my husband, and we've we've done a post on this as well, every night at dinner, he'll usually ask my daughter, like, what's one thing that you're proud of today?
And then what's one way you failed or one mistake that you made today?
And then we'll always try and celebrate whatever the failure or the mistake was.
I love seeing the way that she's already formed this like deep sense of self-compassion
that I think both my husband and I both struggle having sometimes because we're both definitely perfectionists.
We like things to be certain way, like similar to how you're describing yourself.
I can relate to that feeling.
just so beautiful to see that we can kind of create that self-compassion at such a young age.
Yeah.
I think it's beautiful.
I'm like always kind of going like, okay, I see that I can do this different, but like how do I navigate this?
Like that's the thing with kids too, right?
Like there's never
this like blueprint on it and I'm just I think there's a wealth of knowledge out there now and I'm really grateful to be able to kind of learn and navigate.
But it's just I try not to be too hard on myself because I feel like you just like it's trial and error sometimes, right
Yeah.
It totally is trial and error.
And I think when you're trying to especially break a cycle or do things different, I mean, like you already mentioned, we can have so much compassion for our parents, but when you don't have that blueprint for how to regulate your emotions or how to cope, like
It can be even more difficult.
I heard you saying that your husband and you had very different kind of upbringings.
What was what was his upbringing like in comparison to yours?
So it's funny because he's very competitive.
And he's very good at everything, but he's a dreamer and he doesn't know like barriers or boxes, right?
And he knows that he can become good at anything because
He has a very strong mind.
And so he believes in himself and he manifests things.
And he is kind of has the belief system that like, you know, if something doesn't go in his favor one way, there's a reason for that.
And like there's a way that he can
problem solve and pivot to be able to work with whatever difficulty came into his life.
And I think that's such a beautiful thing to be able to have because sometimes like I hit a difficulty and it's like you freeze sometimes and you're just like, oh that's
Because I wasn't good enough or I didn't do this or I didn't prepare enough.
And he's kind of like, okay, here's a little pivot in the road, but like I can find a way to fix that.
I'm a problem solver.
And that I think is really special.
And part of it too is like we just have
I think you also have different personalities that you're you're born with too.
But yeah, he's definitely the like fly by the seat of your pants type human being who's like not necessarily the perfectionist
where like that's where he and I balance out sometimes too where I'm kind of like okay that's cool and everything but like you have to have a plan and you have to execute it and so like I'm the perfectionist and
And he's like the dreamer kind of like has this ability to kind of like problem solve human and together, I think we've found a way for those things to work really well.
Yeah, I love that.
If you look back kind of at his childhood, do you think that was kind of more of the message that he got from his parents?
Like, you can keep trying, you can dream big things, you can keep doing different things.
And do you think that's what shaped him that way?
Oh yeah.
I mean part of it too, like I look at his parents and I laugh too, because his dad's like, You're the best.
You're thoroughbred.
I'm like, they're very New York.
You can do anything you set your mind to.
Like no one's better than you.
And his mom is very much like on that level, but it's just like, you know, if you you put the right intention out and the vibrations, you manifest things and like you can create
your own reality and your own world.
She loves being like she really had them explore nature and understand the way that nature can heal us and like
It just like it was like a really cool mix of what his father and his mother brought in.
Not to say that like there's not his own set of things that he has to deal with too.
Like I don't think anyone has a perfect upbringing.
I don't think anyone has
Every answer, all the tools.
Like I think no matter what, no one's perfect and we don't fully understand sometimes like the way that we speak to our children or the things that we do, how it affects them, right?
But there's certainly things that like
I look at from both of our upbringings where I'm like, I do want to instill that and I do want to give that gift to my child.
And then these are things I certainly don't want to give to my child.
I totally get that.
Like I'm like I teach this.
I'm the professional that teaches parenting every single day.
And I know that there's gonna be things that my kids take away from their childhood that they're gonna wanna do different or I I mean
I already get it from my six year old where she's like, Mom, don't say that or there's no way to be perfect in parenting.
And I think that's part of the beauty of it too, is that we are human and
We are gonna make mistakes, but I love that we can try and develop these really close relationships with our kids where we can talk about our mistakes and we can apologize and we can continue to learn from them together.
I think that's like the most beautiful part of parenting
Oh yeah.
And I think like that's the other thing too, right?
Is at the end of the day, like there's certainly things that I'm having to work through that I think part of were the way
That I was raised and and things that I learned and had to unlearn or or there with great things I was given and negative things I was given
But at the end of the day, like my family and I have a very close relationship.
I know that they have my back.
We're smothered with the word love.
Like we felt, you know, there was never like that was something that was really powerful and strong in our family.
And so it's kind of like
I still think that while it's really important to educate ourselves on these things, like that's the baseline, right?
Is that like your child knowing that like you will always be enough for them is very important.
Yeah, absolutely.
The the number one thing and I always teach us too is the relationship we can form with our kids.
And I think we can get a lot of things wrong in the process, but
Developing that trusted relationship where they know that you're always there for them, you're always going to show up is like the most beautiful thing that we can really do for our kids
Yeah.
And I just learned about like the whole idea of repair, right?
Like how people were like you can basically like you're gonna mess up, but it's the way that you repair with them and the way you apologize and the way you hold accountability.
And that's something I mean I probably
didn't know that was not in my vocabulary nine months ago.
And that's like a really cool concept too, because I think it also takes the I had the moment when especially like the first four months postpartum where I was like, I'm not a good enough mom and
you're exhausted and your emotions are everywhere and like sometimes you do like the other thing that's not talked about too is like there's these feelings and emotions that well up
in you as a parent, as a mother, especially when you're exhausted and you don't know how what your child's trying to say to you and you expect to be able to communicate with them that are very real and I think get this like rap of like you're not supposed to feel those things because if you do, you're a bad parent.
And I had to like find a way to be okay with being human and feeling these things and going like, oh maybe I just need a break.
And when I did kind of get frustrated knowing that like you can come back and just apologize to your child and like showing them that, you know, you will make mistakes too is just as important.
And that was like a
a light bulb moment for me too.
Because you know my nature is to be really hard on myself.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
It's so hard, especially when you have your first child and like you were just mentioning, like you did do a lot of work before you had a child, but
I think anytime we have our first child and we are that type of personality who has always our entire life like sought praise and wanted to do things right and
And I know for me I was always like I liked to follow the research.
I like to do things in a certain order.
And then you have a baby and they don't follow the books and you're trying to do things right.
You're trying to breastfeed.
And all those messages of self-worth, I think, that have maybe piled up over the years can really play into you in motherhood when you're trying to do all these things right, but it's actually not even possible
What was that like for you when you finally had Teenies Lee and we'd done all that work?
Like I'm so curious about what that postpartum experience was like
I feel like I learned a little too late that there is no method or linear path to sleep.
Like that was one of the things that I think
Now I look at it and people are like, is she sleep trained?
I'm like, is the baby ever really sleep trained?
They're like, does she sleep through the night?
And I said, sometimes.
It depend it depends on you know what phase she's in and did she learn to take a step today?
There's so many things that
affect them and like my again this like idea of reading the books and following the rules.
I had this internal struggle because
I wanted to just be like you achieve that your baby sleeps in the night at like four months, right?
And like it's great.
You've done all the right things and you've taught them and you've given them the tools.
And then I struggled with this maternal instinct that I was like, no, this is all wrong
This is all wrong and I should just be there for my child.
And like I I really battled with that for a couple of months.
And that I think was one of the like I was hardest on myself about too.
Cause you know, you you're also exhausted and like
People don't realize what your hormones are doing as a woman when you're like postpartum and you're breastfeeding.
But it's it's really hard.
And uh and so yeah, that was a big struggle for me where I was just like, I'm doing something wrong.
And then that kind of manifested itself into that frustration with myself and sometimes with the baby when she wouldn't just sleep and I didn't know how.
And like I felt like I was doing all the right things.
And as soon as I threw that out the window and really just said, I'm gonna listen to my instincts and I'm gonna feel out what what the baby needs at that time, that was a game changer.
And also also asking for help.
That was a a big one too.
Cause like there's this idea that when you become a mother that like it's bliss and you just know what to do and you do have a mother's instinct, right?
Like there's certainly times where like I know exactly what that baby wants and no one else could ever know
And I know what's best for her, but then there's other times where like you're learning with them, right?
And so I had this like idea jumbled in my head where I was like, Well, I'm supposed to know.
So yeah, that took a while to get through.
And now we're like, sometimes she sleeps.
And like last night I looked at my thing and I was up at like 11 and 12 and 345 and 445 to 6.
Like it was just a bad night.
And I looked at it and I was like, it was a hard night for her
is like that easy to do, right?
But like also it was a hard night for her.
And kind of going, but she probably she just started walking.
Right.
And like she's experiencing and learning all these things.
So yeah, sorry, that was a very long-winded answer, but it's something that is certainly like very visceral for me.
Oh, absolutely.
Sleep for me as well.
I I experience postpartum anxiety as well because I hear so many of the things that you're saying, right?
Where you're you wanna
be good and you want to be a good mom and you've always worked your whole life to do things the best and now you're a mom and it's like okay well I have to be the best mom then.
And I I know for me specifically sleep was such a struggle too because
as a first-time mom, I'm just reading all these blogs on sleep and I felt this pressure that if I'm a good mom, then my baby sleeps through the night.
Like those are just equal.
And my first daughter uh I mean none of my kids, but my first daughter especially, she was up every 45 minutes.
And so then when she would wake up and start crying, it was almost like her cries were telling me, you're failing
So it's like crying and then I'm believing you're failing.
And I was so stressed out about getting her back to sleep that
I had to follow every rule.
So she had to be in her back, on the c in the crib and and I couldn't breastfeed her to sleep.
So all of those things was just like fighting my natural instinct.
Like when you talk about sleep anxiety, was it a pressure to sleep train her or was it a pressure just to get her to sleep through the night?
Like what was that anxiety like for you?
Yeah, I mean it was it was part like the really hard part is that I wasn't centered enough to be able to like just go with whatever my gut instinct was, right?
Like there was this societal pressure.
People make so much money off of sleep training classes and
Teaching what is wrong and what's right in there and I I research everything to almost to a fault sometimes.
And so like then I was like, Well, all this stuff is contradictory.
And so I was just like, I can't figure it out.
And to your point, like there is that like they cry and you feel like a failure.
And I also was just afraid, like I fed into this one who was like, well, if they're sleep deprived, like you're doing your baby a disservice.
Like if you don't sleep train them
this is a problem because you're not giving your baby the best chance to thrive and succeed and they're not fully like they're not getting their rim sleep and their deep like all this stuff that really got to me
And then I just, I don't know, I made the executive decision.
I was like, I don't care.
I'm gonna go help her when she needs help.
Like I feel like what is most important is that she knows that when she needs me, I am there.
And everything else we'll figure out and it will probably be harder because we're not getting 12 hours of sleep a night, but like I just don't feel like letting her cry when she needs me and then telling her that I will be there for whatever she needs
makes sense for me.
And I have the privilege of having a husband who's very hands-on.
We have his mom who lives with us for months on end.
My parents come in so like
I also understand that my circumstance is different from a lot of people's circumstance, but in my case I was just like, this is what feels right.
And so we kind of like shift
The way that I was handling her sleep.
And now it's like, you know, she was grumpy this morning when she woke up because she was up so much last night.
But that's part of
the deal, right?
Like human beings have bad days.
Well yeah, and I I think that that's such an important mindset shift.
I know I got to that same place and then
I think my daughter was probably nine or ten months old at the time and I was similar to you that I just thought, okay, well, she sleeps through the night and then she'll sleep through the night forevermore.
But
She would sleep through the night and then two weeks later, oh, all of a sudden you're going through a leap and then you're up.
And so I also got to that point where I was like
Wait, maybe it's not just this thing where you sleep train them, then they sleep through the night and then everybody's happy forevermore.
Maybe this is just part of being human.
And I think
changing that perspective for me, especially with three kids.
And and I still I see it with all my kids now.
Like the older two who are six and three and a half.
Like they mostly sleep through the night.
Of course, like sometimes there's a scary dream or something like that
And then my well, I call her my baby.
She's almost 18 months old.
Like sometimes she still wakes up.
And similar to you, we also had a rough night of sleep.
You're describing it.
I'm like, yeah, I feel that.
That feels right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We were up also last night for a couple hours and she's learning to talk.
So in my mind, I'm thinking the same thing.
And it helps so much just to change her perspective.
What do you think helped?
Like how did you get to that point where you shifted your perspective?
Is that just an internal thing or did you see something that helped?
No, I think with me, it's with me, it's like I hit this point of like
desperation where I'm like, I can't clearly what I'm doing is not working.
And it like takes like the nail over the head for me to like realize and recognize it.
But I was just like, I am fighting with myself and this is not working.
So
I'm just gonna do what feels right and just, you know, let everything else go.
And and it just, I don't know.
I think I just hit a point where I was like, I'm exhausted.
I'm not a human being right now.
I gotta like figure out what's going on and and and lean into it versus like
trying to to fight it because obviously like it just wasn't working.
And then once I did, like it just I don't know.
It felt right, right?
Like I feel like I am there to nurture my child and to be there.
And so it's like this thing where sometimes I'm tired I'm tired, but my
capacity to deal with being tired is so much greater because I've taken away all these other expectations and stressors, if that makes sense.
Oh, it makes total sense.
I think when you can let go
And it the pressure is not I have to get my baby to sleep through the night in order to be a good parent.
And that can apply to, I think, breastfeeding or bottle feeding or just all these other tools that we put on ourselves as parents.
It is a relief and then I think you can handle the same amount of stress.
Like I I always said this after I had my second daughter
She also didn't sleep well, but I entered into it with I'm gonna be okay if my baby doesn't sleep well and I'm gonna be okay to feed her to sleep if that's what I feel like doing or rock her to sleep.
And she didn't sleep well for the first year and I was totally okay with it.
It was just
the shift in perspective changed the way that I was able to respond to her, which just changed everything.
Yeah, definitely.
Oh, and breastfeeding and b bottle being that's a whole nother thing.
Like
I felt again this like idea of like you will be able to do this great because you prepared for it and you're healthy.
And like I did, I worked really hard on my body and my mind before I had a baby.
And so I was like
I was like, oh you got this.
My pregnancy was easy.
But I was very lucky throughout my pregnancy.
And so like had this expectation that everything was gonna follow suit.
And with breastfeeding, I had really horrible latch issues at first.
And then
didn't realize there was different like size planges and like it was like very painful and finally kinda got that fixed but then had a lot of issue with my production and like
was so dead set and only breastfeeding and I wanted to do what was best for my baby and and again like had this realization that like your mental health is struggling right now and that is not good for your baby.
So why don't you figure out
what's gonna be best, she's gonna be healthy and happy.
And then we ended up supplementing up until a year with formula whenever I couldn't produce right.
And it took so much pressure off of me, right?
To not be like power pumping every other day.
And like it just wasn't in the cards for me.
Right.
And so
had to, I feel like, also learn somewhat the hard way with that too, but finally made this this shift and and everything
felt much better when I kind of relinquished some of the control around the way that I was feeding my baby too.
Yeah, and it's so much like the same as sleep, right?
Where there's so much pressure to always exclusively breastfeed and the media can make it look like this
perfect beautiful thing that's just so natural, but it doesn't always feel like that.
And that can be really, really difficult as a new parent too.
So you're juggling the sleep, you're juggling the breastfeeding.
It's a lot of different things.
I didn't look different for people if they work or not too, right?
Like again, like it's not a one size fits all, right?
And like I also went back to work and filmed something and so like trying to
to then like keep up your production and like also focus that like women put these like impossible kind of standards and expectations on themselves sometimes.
So where yeah, I had to to reprogram that because I was just like, I am not exclusively a stay-at-home mother.
I also work.
And so like there are things that have to be adjusted because of whatever your lifestyle is too, right
What was that experience like for you?
Like so in Canada we have a year MAT leave, or you can actually take up to 18 months maternity leave.
Which I know is like wild compared.
Yeah.
It's beautiful.
It's one like it's the way it should be.
Yeah, it truly is.
Like it's so beautiful.
I know I had that for my first two kids.
I had lots of time off after
With my third, I was running my own business, so I didn't have any time off and the pressure to go back to work and be trying to breastfeed and keep your supply up, like
Just breastfeeding alone is a full-time job.
So trying to do that and a full-time job is is way too much pressure.
What was it like?
Like how how soon did you go back to work?
I don't feel like I ever fully stopped because I do I mean misproductivity, right?
So like I have my own company.
It's a startup called Humming Way about reproductive health and then
I was doing a podcast while I was pregnant about the film that I had done kind of like it was a g like I couldn't just like take time off, right?
I was like, I need to be doing this in between.
So like I had that to wrap up and then
was lucky enough to be able to to go back to s I think she was like I feel like s six or seven months old.
So like I I certainly had some time.
But yeah, that was a
Trying to kind of like juggle that was was definitely hard too.
I did for the first four months really, I think, limit my workload.
Part of that I think was at a necessity because I just wasn't
In I wasn't there wasn't like postpartum depression.
I would say postpartum anxiety for sure, but I was struggling and I was like this is just really hard and like I'm I
I don't have this figured out and I I need to figure it out.
And so I took that time, but then I would say after like four months, things kind of started.
I was trying to be present as present as possible in both categories.
Cause to your point, it is hard when
It is your company.
You don't want to abandon what you've built and also people who depend on you.
So I think that will always be a work in progress too.
Like
I've gotten really big into manifestation, which I think is a really powerful thing.
And mindfulness is a very powerful thing.
But it it's I have these
these battles with myself because I'm like, well you could manifest this, but like, do you really want to be on a show nine months a year?
I'm constantly at battle with how much time I want to s be able to spend at home and
and how much I want to be at work and what I want to provide to my family.
So that's like the next step for me, definitely, because that part's hard.
I also love working, right?
So
I don't know.
That part's hard for me.
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Okay, so I I can relate to this desire to work because I I feel similar to you
and the desire to be to be home with your kids.
How do you balance like your own need for rest?
Especially when you have this new baby and you're trying to
work on your your company Hummway and you're you're trying to do all these things with like the the podcast that you were doing.
Is it hard to tell yourself like rest is productive, rest is okay?
Uh are you able to rest in those moments or do you feel like I have to keep going, I have to keep going?
Yeah, I um finally hit a place to where I'm kind of like with my husband or some like my family too.
I'm like I need to sleep.
And there are day like I usually I feel like I go for like two weeks.
and can deal with chipping away at my sleep for two weeks and then I I I don't know I just hit this point where I'm like, I don't feel like myself
I'm irritable.
I'm just, I feel kind of like a zombie.
And then I kind of say, okay, this is I need to, I need to have at least a day of so I take my day of rest, basically, which works for me.
Because for me to to try and say, like, I need eight hours of sleep every single night is just it's possible when she sleeps twelve hours, when she sleeps through.
But when she doesn't, it's just like, you know, sometimes it's five, sometimes it's six, and then
I just try and make it up where where I can.
But I've stopped feeling guilty about that part of it.
Because I do think there is this recognition, right, that like if you don't sleep and if you don't take time for yourself, then like you will not show up
the way that you want to for your child.
And that's when I start getting irritable and frustrated.
And that's when like no matter how much I work on on these things and these triggers, like they really start to kind of rear their ugly head, I think.
And so that connection has been made
that I'm like, you have you must rest if you want to be able to be the parent that you want to be.
Yeah, I know that that is such a difficult thing, especially for new moms, especially for parents like you who always wanted to be productive and work and do things.
It's like
it can be hard to see rest as something that is productive or important for ki for kids and and for yourself as well.
And I remember that too.
I really struggled with that when I had my first baby, especially
I'd have a whole day and I'd be like, okay, so today I have to clean and then I'm gonna work and then I'm gonna listen to a podcast that teaches me something new and then I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that.
And it was really difficult for me to say, actually rest is okay.
Like it's actually okay for me to just sit on a couch with my baby on my lap and just exist.
And so that's something that's been a a real thing for me.
And and so I was just curious what that looked like for you
Yeah.
I think it took a minute to kick it, but I do think like I hit the year mark, right?
I'm just like I feel like I'm more unapologetically a mother to where I I don't feel a lot of the shame around like with some times with people and if I can't show up to something or I can't do everything, I'm like
Very much like I'm a mother and I have a one-year-old and you may not understand what that is if you don't have a child, and especially if you are not a mother to that child.
But I understand it and so like I no longer feel bad about that being kind of a response to things where like I feel like some people may look at it and be like, well, that's an excuse, but they just until you're in that situation, I don't think you can have a full understanding of it, and that's okay
'Cause I feel like honestly, like, since having Kingsley, there is this immense amount of respect and appreciation that I have for my mother and my father.
that I just never could have understood until having my own child.
Like it's like you almost at first I felt bad for not fully grasping what they sacrificed for me.
But now that I've had Kingsley, it's this light bulb, right?
Where I'm like, oh, I get it.
And for all of my other friends that have kids, right?
There's all these like memes that go around where they're like, I'm sorry, because I didn't understand.
And like when you show up for me
That's a big sacrifice.
Like it becomes a sacrifice to show up for your friends.
So that's a really cool perspective to be able to gain.
Yeah, there's there's something that you gain when you become a parent yourself that you can say, okay, I get it
Is there anything that you would want to do the same as your parents?
Like I know we talked about some things that you're going to do different.
Is there anything from your childhood that you're like, I definitely want to do this with Kingsley?
Yeah, I mean I do love the core values that they instilled in me.
I think discipline and and self-respect is is really important.
I think they always did teach me to dream big and they did give me a really strong work ethic and and not something that I am proud of.
I just had to, I think, detach my worth from that, right?
Like that was the the thing that I want to kind of add to what they taught me in that space.
They gave me a really kind heart.
Like they always, they're extremely caring.
for other people and always taught us that, you know, even though when we we grew up, like my par my dad worked around the clock and sacrificed a lot so that my mom could raise us and and we never knew that we didn't have.
They did a really great job at that and they always taught us like
There are people have who have less than you and and you should give to those people.
And I think that's a really beautiful thing that I'm thankful that they instilled.
And then the other thing is that yeah, they they taught us
that they would always be there no matter what and they would love us no matter what and there was nothing that we could do to change the way that they felt about us us and those are the first things that pop in my head.
Yeah.
I I love all of those things.
I think it's so important to reflect on both, right?
Like the things, okay, we want to do this different and we know how this may have impacted our anxiety or or different things like that.
that but it's also important to look at it and be like what do I cherish?
What made me feel safe and seen and loved as a child and it sounds like you did have some of those things that you want to repeat with Kingsley and
I think that's a beautiful part of the whole process of reparenting too.
Yeah, definitely.
And like what's cool too is my parents, I see what they sacrificed for us and and it's really cool.
to see again like they're again sacrificing like my parents will like when I went to do a movie, they were like, we'll come out and stay with you for the three months and we'll we'll take care of Kingsley while you're on set.
And they don't have to do that.
Like they already raised one kid and so like to see just how willing they are to to rescrifice their time and and
put in the effort to give Kingsley the best childhood possible is really special.
And to see them like turn into kids again is really special.
Like I
feel like this is almost uh redo is probably the wrong term, but they're like, oh yeah, they can see like the second time around and especially at their age now.
they're really excited to have this positive impact on her life.
And that's very I mean, that's something that I will cherish forever.
It's a beautiful thing.
Yeah, there's something just
So cool, I think, about watching parents become grandparents.
And I think it's almost a do-over in some ways for a lot of parents.
Like now that they're out of the baby stage and they're not the one who's in the day-to-day, like they can
pour into their grandchildren in in a different type of way, which can be really healing as well to to watch as the child, you know, watching them be with their grandparents.
I I think that that can be really, really cool and healing
Yeah.
I'm also grateful there um like I see all this stuff about the parents and now grandparents cat butting heads because there's this idea that they're like, well we raised you this way and
And and you turned out fine.
And my parents have been the complete opposite, where they're like very much on board with like, oh, here's how we can do this better.
And like, oh, that's a cool piece of research that you found.
And so like
They're like my partners in this and and that part is is very cool.
It's been a it's been a really fun process.
I'm like, I don't know what you guys are gonna do when my brother has the baby because we're on opposite sides of the country.
I'm like, you guys thought you were retired, but like I'm not retired anymore.
And is that you bringing up new things to them, like saying, hey, I saw this really interesting article, you want to check it out?
Or is that them just observing you with her?
Like like how are you having those conversations with them?
Yeah, well my dad's super excited about it because he, you know, he really he worked around the clock to be able to provide for us, right?
And and give us a better life.
Like that was
Part of their MO is like we want to be able to give you a little bit better of a life than we had.
And that I'm really grateful for.
And that's something I want to continue to pass on to my child.
Like that's the whole idea, right?
Is like
you work and you sacrifice to be able to just give your kid the best opportunity that they can have and give them all the things that you had and all the things you feel you didn't have.
And so it's cool to see him like
to be able to pour into her like that my with my mom, like she's super excited to research in the same way that I am.
And so we go back and forth with like, hey, look at this article we found or look at this thing we found.
And like
I think it's important to, you kind of touched on this, but like approach it not from a place of like, well, you did this wrong.
It's like from a place of like, hey, look at this information that we have now.
that we know affects these kids.
Like this is the way I I think I want to approach it.
And I think that's important because it's like if someone just came to you who gave everything that they were to be your mother and father and then like your your kids come to you and are like, well you did a shitty job.
You know, it like doesn't versus going like, Oh, I'm so grateful for what you did, but like this is the thing that I this is the information we now have where I think we should do this a little bit different.
And that approach I think has been helpful because it's
It's just exciting to them all over again to be able to kind of help raise her into what we think she can become and and give her this like very, again, like a the clean slate and like a launching pad for her to jump off of.
Yeah, I think that's such an inspiring story.
I know that's something I get asked constantly on Nurtured First is like, how do I approach this with my parents?
I want to do things different.
I love them and I know they tried the best they could, but I want to do things different.
How do I approach it?
And so I think it is.
It's exactly what you said.
And
It's saying, hey, I saw this article or just modeling it through the way that you respond and validate their feelings.
And I think there's such a gentle way it can be done where you can become partners with some grandparents.
And I I think that's really beautiful that
you were able to form that relationship with your parents now.
That's really cool.
Yeah.
And also like I'm not the end all be all, right?
Where it's like sometimes I'm like, hey, I saw this and my mom's like
Like, well, you should look at this angle or like take this into consideration.
And that part's cool too, right?
Where it's it like she's done it before.
So there is there's something very valid to that where I'm kind of like, if you think I'm like
going too far off on on the deep end on this, then like she says something and and that's that's cool to have.
As we wrap up, I would love to hear a little bit more about Humming Way.
I know we talked a little bit about Humming Way, but it
I mean, I've been looking into it.
I know period cramps are something that I've struggled with my entire life.
So I'd love to for you just to share a little bit about what it is and and how you help women.
Yeah, well, you know, Hummway I mentioned before that like I went through this process years ago and wanted to cleanse my whole body of everything and and really start
digging deep and finding kind of the root cause to all of these these issues that I was seeming to have.
And uh when I got off everything, birth control was one of those things.
And birth control was probably the hardest thing for me to to cleanse my body of and get off of because
I had been on it since I was 16 and everything had been suppressed, right?
So like you don't actually have a real period when you're on birth control.
It's a synthetic bleed.
You don't experience these symptoms because it shuts down the communication between your brain and your and your uterus.
Your reproductive system.
And so I had all of these symptoms kind of just festering under the surface that I didn't know about.
And when I stopped taking birth control, all of a sudden all of those things came to the surface.
And I went back to my healthcare provider and was like, well
How do I fix these things?
And the answers I got were very much like go back on birth control, SSRIs, Accutane, all the things that I was that was not the path that I was on.
And it was incredibly frustrating because I felt like the system had failed me, mind you
I don't think my doctor failed me because that's not they're just not set up to understand reproductive health in that way.
I it was all kind of nobody really had answers to why I was experiencing th these things and and how I could actually heal myself from them instead of covering up whatever the problem was.
That coupled with I felt really ashamed and like lonely in the fact that I was 30-something years old and I didn't have an understanding of my body and I couldn't control what was such a huge part of my identity being a woman.
And so
I was just frustrated and venting with my sister-in-law and she had was on her own journey and and she's been diagnosed with PMDD.
And so we were both kind of like struggling on our own and just ended up coming together and going like this is
We don't feel this is acceptable and we should try and and and make a difference.
And if there's not something that exists, then we should just try and make it and do it.
And so it kind of started out first for ourselves.
And then as we started to kind of like pull the string and unravel everything and talk to our peers, like this was
Something that every single person experienced that it that has a menstrual cycle.
Like there I feel like there was no person who said, like, oh yeah, this is totally great.
And I understand my body anatomy and I have education on this and I've been given the tools to balance my hormones back out naturally
And so we kind of said, all right, this is a bigger thing.
I think that we should we should actually try and make a mission here.
And so we set out to provide non-toxic solutions for menstrual cycle symptoms.
But we also wanted to provide an educational platform, which is called the regular, where we could teach people about body literacy and teach them about hormones and give them an understanding of what was actually happening inside their body because I think that's a big part.
of the puzzle um is that we have no idea what's happening and so like each month you're just like hit with all of these symptoms and you feel like you're out of control and you don't know what to do about it.
And so
we I think have helped a lot of people one just gain understanding because that gives you some sense of control of knowing like I'm about to start my period again and I'm like, oh yeah, these are I remember these feelings like three, four days before my period, like
It is, I have to work really hard to kind of tailor my responses to people because my irritability factor is through the roof
And just knowing like, oh yeah, this is three, four days leading up to my period, this will pass, this is normal, not a big help.
And then again, like giving people non-toxic solutions.
For things that will actually address the root cause of the problem.
Like our patch is all non-toxic natural ingredients.
There's six ingredients.
One of them is C B D, and that is in there because it stops the overproduction of prostaglandins.
in overproduction or what causes you to cramp and be in so much pain.
And so like it goes in there and addresses what the actual problem is versus covering it.
And so yeah, that's kind of like we just jumped off and said, you know
This seems like a problem and we want to solve it.
And it's been this really uh startup life is really hard, but the responses that we've gotten and the way that we've been able to change people's lives for the better is
that's what keeps you going, right?
It it's hearing these people say, like, I can't live without this, or I didn't know I had PMDD.
I just thought I was crazy like PMDD.
I don't know if
you're familiar with it.
But my sister in law, two weeks before her period, it it mimicked kind of what being bipolar looks like.
And she was, you know, there was suicidal thoughts and there was
toxic kind of she would like break up with her boyfriend and like just felt like the world was ending and the second she would start bleeding everything was okay.
And if you don't have a diagnosis for that and you don't understand what's happening, like that is
life shifting and and altering.
And so being able to to help people kind of be their own health advocates has been one of the most fulfilling things that that I've ever done.
Yeah, you are and you're doing such a beautiful job at it, just looking through your Instagram page
I know for me, I when I was looking through it all, I I was thinking about myself, the sixteen year old version of myself who had such terrible period cramps that I would have to come home from school or work and I'd be crying and I'd be like in my bed all day and unable to function.
To like me now after having I've been breastfeeding or pregnant for the last four years, so I haven't had a a period
And I just just weaned my youngest daughter of probably like four months ago.
And so I'm just like TMI, but I'm just starting to get a period again for the first time in four years.
And I feel like it's this learning journey for myself too.
Like, oh, this is what my mood feels like.
Okay.
So even as a team, we're like my mood shifts two weeks before my period.
Like I need to be mindful of that.
Like
And I think even as adults we just assume we should know about these things, but the hormones and the body changes, we were never taught it.
Yeah.
I feel like after
Becoming a mother to like it to your point, like it is cool because I just got my period back and it took like two years from the time I was pregnant to now.
You're acutely aware of your body and the ebbs and flows of your hormones.
Like I have such a new appreciation for my body
Like I was so excited.
I was so excited to get my period for a number of reasons.
Uh one being that I could actually promote my company that I created.
Like we made it and then I like got pregnant.
Was just like, well, I can't use my own product
But also like I was excited to relearn what my cycle was like as an adult that had an understanding of my body.
And so it's been uh so far it's been cool.
I never thought I would say that though.
You know what?
I I agree.
I have such a deeper appreciation for my body now, even though it's still difficult.
I'm like, oh dang, why do I have to have these hormones again?
Like I was enjoying not having this for four years.
But yeah, there there is a deeper appreciation.
Well, thank you so much Ashley for being here.
Could you share where people could find you?
Yeah, definitely.
My Instagram is Ashley Green.
Hummingways is our hummingway, but you can also find it on my um my bio
Yeah, and make sure that you follow Ashley.
She's amazing.
Our Hummingway is an incredible account.
I've already learned so much from following you and
I'm just so grateful for you to share your story and be so open and vulnerable.
So thank you so much for being here.
Thank you for having me and thank you for all the work that you do, because obviously I've learned so much from your page and have such a deep respect.
for what you're putting out there for all of us to have a greater understanding of how to nurture our child.
So thank you.
Oh, you're so welcome.
Let's head over to Coffee Time where Scott and I share some of
our reflections from this amazing conversation.
What I love about Ashley is she talks so openly about her experience and I loved
the conversation we were having at the very end, talking about periods.
I was wondering how did you feel when we were talking about periods?
Does that make you feel uncomfortable or are you getting used to that kind of conversation now?
Well, I mean being married to you, I don't know, it's a normal thing.
I don't know anything about it, so I don't know that I have anything to offer to that.
That part of the conversation honestly.
When you say you don't know anything about periods, do you mean like you just don't know anything about what it's like to experience it or just in general?
Yes.
Yes and yes.
So
In general, I don't know too much about it other than what you have explained to me.
And again, it's not something that I can relate to because it's not something I can feel.
So
Well and I wanted to bring it up at the end of the episode here because you have three daughters.
Yes.
So clearly we are going to be talking about periods a lot.
And actually it is really relevant because this last week our daughter asked what a period was for the first time ever.
Yep.
So our seven-year-old
She heard us talking about something and she didn't really know what it was about and she kept asking over and over and over until finally
I was like, okay, she's so curious about what this is.
I think it's time I tell her.
And to be honest, I thought I had already taught her what a period was.
Like, well you definitely have, but
She was too young to remember, I think.
I think when she was three, once she saw pads in the bathroom and she asked what they were, and I explained the whole thing to her.
And to be honest, since that time I kind of just thought she knew what it was.
I've never been closed about it in our house
But then when this last week when she kept bringing it up over and over, I was like, Oh, you actually don't know what a period is.
So she was laying in bed and she was asking me again.
I said, Okay
Is this something that you want to know?
And she said, Yes.
And I said, Uh, do you know anything about what it means to have a period?
And she says, No.
And I went into this entire explanation for her about, well, you know, once a month this happens and
talked about how the body gets ready to make a baby and then we shed that.
And thankfully we've already talked to her about anatomically correct names.
She already knows what a uterus is.
So she was able to click in on it
And then at the end of it all she goes, But mom, I don't want that to happen to me And I said Yeah, her reaction was
Kinda funny.
She goes, why does that have to happen to women?
Why do we have to have this happen to us?
And then she wished that her sisters would get it before her.
Maybe that'll happen.
Could happen.
They're uh close enough in age.
But that conversation with her
and being open about it with her and seeing her questions since then really just made me think of the importance of actually talking about periods as adults and with our children when they're at the right age openly because
I remember when I was a kid, and when I was a teenager especially, this is actually before my celiac diagnosis, which I think this was maybe related.
But I had the worst periods ever.
Like I don't know if you remember Scott because we knew each other at the time.
Oh yeah, I remember.
I would be bedridden
for a week every single month and I would be so embarrassed about it, right?
I wouldn't want to ever tell anyone why I was bedridden for a week every month.
And also there was a piece of it that was just like, yeah, you're having your period, like that's just normal.
But it wasn't, right?
It wasn't normal to literally have to lay in bed or even as I got into university.
Does it not?
Like I d I don't really know.
Not everybody has it to that extent, right?
Right.
Now I don't have it to that extent
Yeah.
So after I got diagnosed with celiac and they went off gluten, it actually totally changed my periods for me.
So that was actually a piece of that and I couldn't believe that.
Right.
Yeah, that did make a huge difference.
You all of a sudden
Finding out you had celiac and then you stop.
Yeah, that's true.
Before I had celiac, I would literally have to take time off work.
I couldn't go to work.
After I went off gluten and had celiac, all of a sudden I could function again.
Now can I ask you a question
Please I mean, this is maybe a little bit more selfish.
How as a father, because I've thought about this before, if you were
to die.
We're going straight morbid here.
Let's go back morbid really quick.
Like I would have literally zero idea how to explain any of this to our girls
And I have actually thought about that.
Like what would I what am I supposed to do?
How am I supposed to be able to educate them on something I literally have zero understanding or or very close to zero understanding of
Well one thing I know about you is that you'd be able to research and and understand that.
I think the most important thing that our girls need to know, and I think it's something that so many of us didn't know
Is that there's no shame attached to having a period.
Like that is something it is natural.
Our body does it and we feel shame about it and it feels like it's dirty or gross or something we can't talk about.
Is that a general feeling or consensus from
people that it is gross to have it?
Yes.
I would say, and I mean folks listening to this podcast can correct me if I'm wrong here.
But I would say the majority
of friends even that I have within women we can talk about it with each other, like friendships.
Right?
But it's not something that you're talking about with
a lot of people and also even in relationships it can feel like it's something that you want to hide or has shame attached to it and I think it's because again it's one of these topics that we just don't talk about
Right.
So I think with the girls, I would want you to tell them whether or not I'm there.
Hey, you guys totally feel free to come to me and what what do you need?
Like do you want me to go do I need to go pick something up for you?
And like for you to feel comfortable.
Yeah.
Would be
Like would they even know?
Let's say our oldest has her her first period and you are not around.
Yeah.
I think I would know what to do.
Alright, let's walk through it.
So what's the first thing you would do?
Uh
Well, I'd probably have to get her the I don't know, I would talk to her about it.
But again, I just I don't know that I have I'd probably talk to like your mom or something like that about having the conversation with her.
Yeah
I would do research, but again, like do I even know what to maybe I would research how to talk to your daughter about her period as a father?
blog posts coming out on maybe a toolkit on periods like I'm feeling something coming on here.
Well that's the thing.
There's books
that you could use and I would definitely say having a woman come in like my mom or an aunt like one of their aunts or something like that to come talk to them about it I think would be really key and actually I want to establish that anyway.
Like I really want to establish that
like conversation even with their aunts, like so that if we're at a family thing and I'm not there, they can feel comfortable going to someone about it.
Mm-hmm.
But I also want you to feel equipped to have these conversations.
So this is where I'm like I foresee a toolkit or a blog or something coming so we can help
At this point I do not feel prepared for it.
Right.
But I mean I have you, a wealth of knowledge on these subjects that is honestly sort of a crutch for me because
I don't really have to have the conver like I will be a part of it, but I'm not teaching them about something that they're dealing with.
And I mean again, you can relate to them on it.
I can't.
So Right
That's helpful.
But I just I have thought about that, about a bunch of different things, but specifically periods.
Like I would have no clue how to even start.
Right.
And I feel like it comes back to we don't teach little boys about periods at all.
Right?
Like I remember I don't know that I really learned it in school.
No, I don't think you would have learned it in school.
And I remember I taught my brothers
what a period was.
Because they didn't know, but they would see the pads in the house and they would see tampods in the house.
And I don't know that they ever had those discussions.
And I remember my brother forcing me and my friend to teach him what a tampon was and he was young.
But he's like, you have to tell me what is this?
So we told him what periods were.
And again, like I think our little boys want to know too, so that they don't grow up, not to say don't grow up like Scott, but so they don't grow up and feel so uncomfortable around the topic.
Yes.
Around the topic
And maybe that's part of what I can do with you too.
Like even as I'm teaching the girls, I can bring you into these discussions or Yeah.
I think inevitably that will happen.
But is that
every relationship is like that?
Is everyone so open about it?
I don't know.
It's a big thing.
I kinda don't think so, but I just know our little bubble.
I think it's a really good question.
I think it it comes down to even things like buying their first pat
And making a little kit for them with pads and underwear in it.
So if their period comes and they're unprepared, they have that in their backpack
things like that you're probably not thinking about see like that's a great idea but I wouldn't start there.
I guess one thing we could do is ask listeners if they have methods that they have used for kids or they know of methods people have used.
Send us an email with like some good methods of teaching your kids about this.
Yeah.
And especially as a father, like knowing that I know next to nothing on the subject.
What are some recommendations for me?
Yeah, it's got recommendations.
I think that would be great.
And we could totally go and have this conversation over on our Instagram page too.
This is actually a really fascinating conversation.
I am so thankful to Ashley for talking openly about periods.
She talks about how even as women, adult women in our twenties, thirties, forties
we still don't have these conversations openly.
But it's something that impacts us constantly because it's our hormones changing every single month.
For some women it's PMDD.
For some women, it's cramps like what I had, and you're off of work.
Like this is something that impacts women constantly, but we don't talk about it.
And I know for me, I say this in the episode two, you know, like the week before my period, my mood shifts.
I'm not the same happy
I'm really hard on myself, I'm self-critical, I'm more teary.
Well when I know that about myself, I can prepare and nurture myself a little bit more that week.
But those are the kind of things that we really need to talk about because periods and the hormones impact women.
every single day.
So I'm really thankful to Ashley for opening that conversation and having that conversation over on her page and uh her business Hummingway as well
So I think this is a really good spot to wrap up.
Scott, thank you for being in the hot seat talking about periods here.
And Ashley, you were amazing.
Thank you so much for being on the pond.
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