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What do you do when a ski bro shares unsolicited advice about how women should represent other women in snowsports? You record a podcast and trash talk, obvs. In this episode of Juicy Bits, Jen & Jillian dish about this and so much more: Does representation exist outside of Instagram? Are traditional representations of hardcore skiers alienating? What constitutes representation and progression? As always, we'd love to hear from you. Share your rants, raves, and virtual high fives with us at hello@coalitionsnow.com.
We created Juicy Bits because we wanted to continue the conversations that we start out on the trail and on the chair lift. Hosted by our CEO Jen Gurecki and Ambassador Jillian Raymond, they talk candidly about everything from dude soup, to sex, to politics, to equity in the outdoors. We occasionally (read: frequently) drop F-bombs, interview some of the most interesting people in the outdoors and beyond, and say things that many of us think but don’t feel comfortable saying out loud. If you are easily offended or looking for something that is G Rated, this is not the podcast for you. But if you love truth-telling and irreverence, get ready to laugh, cry, and maybe pee your pants a little bit.
Hello, and welcome. I'm Jillian Raymond, co creator of Juicy Bits and a Coalition Snow ambassador. And I'm Jen Gorecki, your co host and the CEO of Coalition Snow. For those of you who are new, get ready to laugh, cry, and maybe pee your pants. A Little Juicy Bits is about taking the conversations that we start on the chairlift and at the trailhead and bringing them to you to explore alternative narratives that challenge the status quo about what it means to be a modern woman in the outdoors. Grab your helmet, because sometimes it's a bumpy ride. Fyi, friends, this podcast is for mature audiences, so you've been warned. Let's get to work and juice the patriarchy. Oh, here we go. Now it's your time. Look at us. Speaking of some of the things to celebrate and all the things with technology, you know, you're a great mentor to me and so many things. But this week, Jen, when you helped me understand what a real is, we're out. We're at the Hi Sierra Snowcat, and I kind of pulled you aside. I was a little embarrassed, but I was like, hey, Jen, you keep saying I have these reels, and I'm thinking, like, IRL. I'm like, I'm just going to ask, so what is a real? So you schooled me. Thank you. I feel much more connected to Instagram, so now I'm really just living my fullest self. But this week I came back to just really dive in. And this week's, Real brought a smile to my face. So if you haven't seen it, please head over to Coalition Snow and check out our strap on Real. But, Jen, the comments kind of had me in a little bit of a swirl, and I kind of think we need to talk about that today. Yeah, well, you never know how people are going to respond to anything that you put out on Instagram. And we're kind of known for putting out some provocative and edgy and sort of nontraditional snow sports content. But that's what we do, that's our whole thing is to not be like everyone else and to show a completely different side of things, particularly when you think about showing all the sides of women and all the different things that we might be thinking about or talking about or experiencing.
We had a sponsored skier from another brand, a man, of course, decide that it was his place to be the content police and demand content that showcased women shredding harder. He was very upset. Very upset. So time out. Is this a man that you hired as your consultant, Jen, for your Instagram content? Was he brought in as an independent contractor to consult on UNWomen ski brands? That's a great question. The answer would be no. His input was unsolicited. It was unsolicited advice. No one actually asked him, hey, sponsored skier from other brand what do you think about our content? But he offered it up like he knows all the things about the appropriate way to showcase women skiing. That was his whole thing. So yeah, that was a really we get off this snowcat trip, totally Zen out, come back to the Real world. And of course, why else would 2022 start out any other way than to be trolled by some guy for our new zip code? The Real World. Nice. Did you see how you just did that? You got back to The Real World? The Real World. I know I couldn't initially find his unsolicited consultation work that he provided because there were so many comments that were so joyous to read. They were so fun. They were like hysterical. I love all the great emojis, all the great way to nail it. Coalition love this marketing. You're effing brilliant. Like all the things, right? How do you put it really well on that Instagram? You're like, you zig. We zag. It's a constant interruption to the noise of what all the companies are doing. And it's also just a departure from what is lazy and boring and doesn't really represent this full picture of women in the outdoors, women in the mountains, women on skis and snowboards. I wonder if this person is going out to all other companies and offering up what they think they should see. Maybe. I wonder. Yeah. There's so many things that came up for me after this person's comments, which is why we actually decided that we would make an episode on it because actually, there's a lot to talk about here, and I think a lot of this sort of relates to a lot of our experiences working in snow sports and in the industry. But yeah, one of the big questions is do you vocalize your desire to see women shredding hard to your own ski sponsor? Have you given them the same feedback? I want to see more women ripping that is important to me. I wonder if he said that to them, because when I go to their Instagram, I don't see it. I don't see women represented at all. I don't see really women represented on their website. Once again, I recognize that brands do all sorts of things. I'm sure this one particular brand does different things with women, but I can't say that I see it on their Instagram or on their website. But yeah. Does he feel as emboldened to ask his own ski sponsor to beef up their representation of women? And since he's so concerned about it, has he gone to every other ski brand and demanded that they showcase women more? I wonder if he's done that. Or is it all our responsibility because we're women, so we are the ones who are supposed to take all of this on and be everything to everyone, including him. Which news flash. We're not here for you. You are welcome to enjoy what it is that we create, you are invited to enjoy it. We don't necessarily do it for you. And I think maybe he missed that memo that everything we do at Coalition isn't for men specifically to feel like they're centered in what it is that we do. Certainly invited certainly love having them be a part of it, but we don't center them in anything that we do. Maybe he got confused a long time ago about what it is we do. Yeah, well, I think there's probably been a clear lack of any sort of critical transformation for this male from another ski company that we happen to be talking about. Because what I think it brings up for me is the idea of how sexism hurts everyone. Feminism is good for everyone. And actually striving the patriarchy would benefit all of us because this is just that clear cut, analogous example of, like, we are here for the male gaze. What we wear is for the male gaze. What we do is for the male interpretation, for the male viewer. And that so centers constantly. The mail is the viewer and the consumer. And I think it's just that sense of male and this white male supremacy. And I think when you're in a society that's so entrenched, I'm not excusing their behavior. But I think what's lacking here is any sense of critical thought. Kind of like those keyboard warriors, right? They're just going to sit and think and fester and type and then click send and really zero thought or process in what they're actually putting out there and what that means when it's just from their perspective. It's like the egocentric, right? It's the Eurocentric. It's just so fucking thick in the shit that we are swimming in, and we've been swimming in it for so long. I think it does take a sense of a critical transformation and a step away to even be able to acknowledge it. So we're doing society, Jen. We do fucking great service in this work, you and I do. Hopefully everybody got that step one transformation. Sexism hurts everyone. Feminism is for everyone.
Well, one of the things that came up for me, I had commented responded back to him like, you know how this algorithm works. You only see a bit of what we post and also, you know, stories disappear in 24 hours. Like, Instagram is not the end all be all of anyone or any brand. And it is really just sort of a snapshot of a micro snapshot of everything else that any brand or any person really stands for. And this person actually created an opportunity for me to reflect on what is it that we do at Coalition that gets women super pumped on skiing and snowboarding? What is it that we really do? Because Instagram is really just vanity, right? Like, it's just sort of like fun times. And while certainly Instagram can be a catalyst for change, again, it's not the end, I'll be out of anything. So of everything. Sorry. So I was thinking about what are all the things that we do and what would actually constitute support, like getting women excited about skiing and snowboarding or getting them more involved in the sport. And so I came up with this list of things that we do, and I'm actually going to end up writing a blog about this. I'm going to put it in our newsletter, Lady Parts. But at Coalition, just if you look at what we've done in the last six months, we have our Indigenous backcountry scholarship, where we give gear and $1000 cash scholarship so that women and non binary individuals can actually get the airy courses and the gear and everything they need to recreate in the Back country. We do that. We're working with elevated locals, which is one of our ambassadors. Liz Pop is taking the lead on this to actually create these stories around BIPOC, skiers and snowboarders. So that film series is getting ready to come out. We have our ambassador team, which is over 20 plus people. We released the pro model this year with our athlete Genie. We also are in the middle of working on a collaboration with Rebel Girls to rerelease our youth ski in snowboard next year, not to mention the Coalition clubhouse, which is a virtual community, a meeting place for underrepresented genders to come together. And inside of that, we have Mountaintop, which is specifically for bipock. We have our Back Country Beta event once a month that we partner with True Gear to provide this education for free. That's just what we've been doing the last six months. Yet clearly, we're not doing enough to really get women pumped and really showcase women in the outdoors. And so I want to thank you human and what he actually defined himself as a man with a penis who doesn't know anything. You're right. That is you. But thank you for the opportunity to actually go through and list all the things that we do, because after I did that, I felt super proud about what we do at Coalition and that we have an Instagram account that doesn't prioritize only people who are expert skiers and snowboarders, but actually showcases a wide variety of human beings and a wide variety of issues and passions and joys that we all experience. Just letting that all sync in because it is kind of tremendous. Bravo, Gen. And everyone behind the scenes on Coalition and the team, because it's a tremendous amount of work. But I think the value in that way, if you're like, okay, I'm just going to kind of sit and reflect on this and the other thing. It's like, all right, Dipshit, did you just come out from underneath the rock and find us on the Insta Web? Is this the only thing you've looked at? It's really trending right now for me to think about women in this way. Literally, it's funny, because I'm recording inside, like, an armor at the yoga studio in between my classes, and it reminds me of us OG, like, first season in my bedroom, and I was trying to tack up these blankets and build this Fort, and it was not going well. But I'm thinking of, like, YouTube, and I'm thinking of that stock photo of the woman alone and us talking about like, is that what we're looking for when we want to celebrate or represent women? And I think what Coalition has done and continues to do that is such a great fuck you that that is no, the picture of the woman is not alone on the mountaintop in the sense of conquering it's with community in the valleys and the peaks and the ridges in the summits and the Rivers and all of that. It's not the lone person up there. And I think that's such a real kind of real individual, very Western and kind of toxic way of looking at engaging in the mountains. And then again, I think so much of it has really been internalized for those of us that have grown up in the mountains, spent time in it, depending on kind of how we were raised in that sense of whether competition versus community and what that means for certain people and how it's defined. And I feel really proud as an ambassador for Coalition and someone as a part of it to see that access door and that access point opened, whether from the ambassador team to people feeling like they belong. Because I think that's one of the most energetic and a paradigm shift. Let's not even talk about the astronomical cost of certain things. But if there's just that energetic barrier to the trailheads, to what you look like in the gear, what it looks like to fucking eat shit? Because you know what else this dude should be doing is going to every fucking pro site and being like, hey, I want to see more of people sending and falling. It's like, do you know how many times they have to take that shot to get that shot? And that's another thing that it's like, are you even think about
terrain filming it over and over and over? I'm like, good for you that you spend 15 hours off to get that. Well, we're just like, we're having fun all the time. So sorry. Not sorry. Yeah. And what we've done at Coalition has always been a deviation from the norm in the industry. And you may not like it. Like, certainly people don't like it, and that's fine. I don't like everything out there either. So it's not that we need this person to like what we do is that I don't need the unsolicited advice about what we should be doing, because we are incredibly clear about what it is that we are doing. We are purposefully different. We are purposefully a deviation. You can follow healthy. How many dozens of accounts where you only see people launching off cliffs and big pillows and doing tricks that exist already. So enjoy it. It's there for you. We're not telling people to not do that. We're not going to those pages, those accounts and saying, stop posting this. It's there. We're offering something that is completely unique and really tailored toward the people who we want to feel like they are seen and heard in this industry. But yeah, all of this incredibly lost on this human. The other thing that I will say and this is we don't know how we can't necessarily attribute this to this human being, but in general, it's fascinating how many men are very intimidated by our use of non sexualized nipples.
When women's nipples are sexualized, that's normal. But when we showcase nipples as either protest or joy or selflove, that makes men really uncomfortable. And I do feel like that may have been at play a little bit in this comment because the real was about strap on. So there was a lot of jokes around strap ons. It was around the actual, like, ski strap that we make with true gear. So we did a play on strapon. Perhaps women being so open about their sexuality and their desires made this individual uncomfortable. But yeah, if you think there's no place for sex on Instagram, then perhaps, yes, you would very much dislike that real. Or if you think there shouldn't be any nudity at all. And I don't want to necessarily call you approved because that feels mean. But also, I think nudity is natural part of life. Yes, you could leave my face right now, but you can't. We can see each other. I'm just like kind of stuck in these weird formations. But you know what, Kevin? When I do something I don't like on Instagram, you know what I do? I unfollow it or I move away. Like, I make my feed what I want it to be. That's part of what you get to do. And you get to curate your own content in this world in which we live in. So this person could choose to not engage, and that'd be okay. You don't need human touch. Also, it's okay to engage. But I think about when you think about this punching down, like, is your engagement, who is it making things better for? Have I commented occasionally on other people's posts? Like, yeah, I have. When it's been truly offensive and really maintaining a very aggressive and unsafe environment for women in particular, I might comment on that. But a CIS, straight white man telling us that that content is inappropriate. Who would benefit from us changing the content? Who would like? I think certainly more conservative individuals who believe women should show up in the world in a certain way, they would benefit, perhaps. I recognize that our account is not necessarily something that parents and Guardians would want their young children to see although anything that we do on our Instagram is no worse than what you see in videos and movies. And it's kind of society. Right. But I understand that. But there should be this is my comment actually going to am I trying to make the world a better place? And maybe he did. Maybe. Really, truly. He thinks that if we just showcase women shredding hard, that makes snow sports better for women. But I will say it makes snow sports better for some women. What about all the people who aren't pros or experts or people who are just learning, the people who maybe are falling a lot, the people who are intimidated, the people who are afraid of being made fun of, the people who feel like they don't fit in? So I get it on why you would want to see women ripping. That's cool. That you want to see that. I want to see it, too. But if that's all that you do is showcase women ripping and you don't show all these other parts of it, you just run the risk of again, like, creating a singular narrative about what it means to be a woman in snow sports. And we're trying really hard to create a space and to show that actually anyone can be here and you should be here and you deserve to be here. And you don't have to shred super fucking hard to be a part of what we're building and what we believe in. Yeah. Taking it all because I couldn't agree with you more. You know what even the thing about commenting, it takes me back. You're going to remember this. We did. I don't know. I think it was a Boomerang, like multiple years ago, remember? Boring. Well, now you don't even know the boomerangs and the loops and the lives and the promos. I'm like one click at a time. So we do this Boomerang. We had those great. They were the waxing Tshirts. It was a coalition media shirt thing. We were kind of all jumping up and down office log. We're in Tahoma. And I have a white male guide friend who messaged like, hey, this would have been a lot cooler if you all ended up taking your shirts off and kind of have that comment. You remember this? And I chose to DM him direct message. Nice. Yeah. Just to be. I won't say his name, but I was like, hey, ha ha. But not. I get it. You think that we should be existing for you and you want to see all of our tips. Of course you do, because they're beautiful. But that's like, not what we're doing. I need you to take it down. I didn't tell him in the comment thread to create because he was just and he was like, oh, my God, I never thought about it like that. And I was like, thank you. You have thought or let's open this conversation. It would be great if you could just go in and take it down. And he went in and just made, like, a comment about the gear and apparel. But it was one of those spaces, too, where I learned I'm like, it's actually really nice to go directly to the human sometimes if the intention is to better and communicate. I think what this kind of kid kind of blew. He's old enough to fucking know better and been around the block to know twice not to fuck with us. Okay, there you go. Loud and clear. But just like kind of blow your wide hits and not even thinking. And again, to your point, like, who is it serving, who is it for and what benefit? Like, you think you're going to be right? Good luck. Do you know who you're dealing with? Yeah. And also just like, focus on yourself and focus on the people who you work with. If your life's work or even what you do in your leisure time or your activism or your philanthropy, if it is to promote women in snow sports and to achieve gender equity, if that's what you do. Okay. Please do let me know what you think it is that we could do better. Because I do frequently turn to experts. I ask them questions. I read their books, I listen to their podcasts. I read their Instagram posts. I'm constantly engaging with people who are professionals in this space and professional, not even that they get paid. But are they an academic? Are they an activist? Is this their career? Certainly we have a lot to learn, and we'll continue to learn and continue to evolve. But when you're not that person, start with yourself. Start with your own brand. Try to make change with your own brand. Start with your own friends. Get your friends and the people who film to film more women. It's not like we're over here at Coalition being like, oh, you have a sweet edit of women skiing on our skis now. We're not going to take that.
Show up, roll up. Come on, let's see it. If you're all about it, let's get these women who, you know, who are on Coalition skis. Let's go film. Let's do some shit. That actually would have been a Rad thing for him to have said is like, I would love to see you have more footage of women ripping. How about we get women on Coalition to come out and film and we'll get my guys to film and we can just do some sessions? And then I would have been like, sweet. We have great content. We'll post that. Thank you. But when you're not actually part of the solution, one of the reasons why and also say it's not that easy to get really great footage of women shredding super hard unless you have a pretty significant budget to make it happen. And we're a really small brand, so there are plenty of pro women skiers who I love and snowboarders. I love to watch them compete. I love to watch their edits. Also, I know what it takes to make something that's really good. And we'd certainly like, if anybody's on Coalition skis or snowboards and you have grabbed footage, we would certainly appreciate it and we would use it and we would showcase skills. But we're also not going to be women don't do shit. A lot of women don't do shit like that. Women don't necessarily go out and just session jumps. It's more like you said, Julie. And it's like this community. We go out with friends and we ski and we have fun and we stop and we chat and we do all these different things. We're not necessarily out there being like, oh, come catch me, do this backflip. Like, I'm going to go do back flips. But wait for that point. There are plenty of women I know who do like to do that. I will say the chances that they're like, hey, stop. I want you to film this. I want you to shoot me. I want you to tag it's. Like there's a lot of like, you're just kind of in the moment, in the flow. And I will say not to age myself or you, but there are definitely times where I fucking love skiing and not taking out my phone anymore or at all. Do not focus or whatever that fucking thing is that I like focus, no notifications. And you're not necessarily stopping to shoot everything. Even there's a lot of capture that happens in the head and the heart. Right. And so this is like that meditation practice. But there's a shift of it, especially to your point that Instagram isn't the end all be all. And I've noticed it with the content sometimes I'm like it's a lot of the same. It's a lot of the same. So again, that shout out with Coalition of breaking through the noise. But then also, like the skiing and snowboarding, there's such a fucking release and almost this shift in the pressure that go, yeah, find that log, ski that cliff, do that. But we don't have to take a photo of it. Yeah, that's not for professionals. Right? We're not going to go session this stuff necessarily, and capture it on video. And like, women also don't ask me. What I have seen is that women, for so many different reasons, don't ask people to film them. And also the people who are filming tend to be men, and they never encourage or invite women to be filmed. So there are a lot of reasons why it's actually difficult to capture that kind of footage. And once again, yes, we have people on our team who do flips and tread. I'm not trying to say that the skill level doesn't exist. It's just a different way of engaging and existing within the sport and within the mountains. And it's not necessarily all about getting that perfect shot. There's so much more that goes into it and what's important to me as chief decision maker who maybe shouldn't have this job anymore. I don't know. It's like I just want to represent so much more than just this really narrow sliver of women athletes who do ski and snowboard in that way. I want to create something that's provocative and that gets you thinking about your body and your relationship to your body and like society's relationship to women's body skiing and snowboarding requires our bodies.
Where is the disconnect? Like everything that we talk about with our bots, it's all about our bodies and there's just so much more to it than just can you rip a sick line? Well, I guess we'll give one more shout out to this dipshit. Excuse me just giving us a little food for thought, a little content here because again, one of the other places that we love to bring what comes up for us in collision snow? Whether it's like you spoke about the clubhouse, whether it's in lady parts, it's here on juicy bits. Don't hesitate to reach out to us at hello at coalition snow if you love, hate, disagree, agree like loathe everything and anything you've heard from us and we look forward to those comments and Jen, I look forward to another episode coming out on the website for the community. Yeah. And happy new year, Jillian. 23. I don't know. Who knows? Who knows? All right, we'll see you next time. All right on get to work, motherfuckers.