1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,834 < Intro > 2 00:00:05,834 --> 00:00:07,109 - Welcome to Count Me In, 3 00:00:07,109 --> 00:00:08,379 the podcast for accounting 4 00:00:08,379 --> 00:00:10,990 and finance pros working in business. 5 00:00:10,990 --> 00:00:12,720 I'm Adam Larson, and today we examine 6 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:14,829 leadership from a different angle, 7 00:00:14,829 --> 00:00:18,334 with Douglas Clayton, affectionately known as the FilmDoc. 8 00:00:18,334 --> 00:00:20,220 Neha Ratnakar, caught up with him 9 00:00:20,220 --> 00:00:23,460 to discuss his journey from making crowd-pleasing HR videos 10 00:00:23,460 --> 00:00:26,210 for a satellite company, to researching leadership 11 00:00:26,210 --> 00:00:28,334 at Wharton for his PhD. 12 00:00:28,334 --> 00:00:32,660 To advising C-suite executives through the lens of filmmaking. 13 00:00:32,660 --> 00:00:33,790 There's links to the trailers 14 00:00:33,790 --> 00:00:36,334 for the award-winning documentaries in the show notes. 15 00:00:36,334 --> 00:00:39,320 So be sure to check them out if you're interested. 16 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:40,340 Now sit back and enjoy 17 00:00:40,340 --> 00:00:43,000 this great conversation with Douglas Clayton. 18 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:49,500 < Music > 19 00:00:49,500 --> 00:00:51,833 - I was going through your profile and it fascinated me, 20 00:00:51,833 --> 00:00:53,667 among many other things, by the way, 21 00:00:53,667 --> 00:00:54,930 that you had a very long 22 00:00:54,930 --> 00:00:58,000 and interesting career in SES satellites. 23 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,530 Tell us how was it working with actual rocket scientists 24 00:01:01,530 --> 00:01:05,667 and what lessons did your time in SES teach you? 25 00:01:05,667 --> 00:01:07,439 - That's a great question. 26 00:01:07,439 --> 00:01:11,110 There are a couple of really fun elements 27 00:01:11,110 --> 00:01:12,930 of working with rocket scientists. 28 00:01:12,930 --> 00:01:17,667 One of them is when I go to family dinners, or parties, 29 00:01:17,667 --> 00:01:19,820 or functions, and people say, "What do you do?" 30 00:01:19,820 --> 00:01:22,230 I get to say that I work with rocket scientists, 31 00:01:22,230 --> 00:01:26,166 and that's an instant attention grabber. 32 00:01:26,166 --> 00:01:28,430 But certainly much more substantial than that 33 00:01:28,430 --> 00:01:31,166 is just working with folks who are so smart. 34 00:01:31,166 --> 00:01:34,979 And most of the engineers and scientists 35 00:01:34,979 --> 00:01:39,333 who I've had the pleasure of working with are modest folks. 36 00:01:39,333 --> 00:01:42,130 They don't have big egos, they work really hard, 37 00:01:42,130 --> 00:01:44,500 they love to figure out problems. 38 00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:46,399 They actually love to have problems 39 00:01:46,399 --> 00:01:49,969 so they can have something to figure out. 40 00:01:49,969 --> 00:01:51,333 So I've always enjoyed it, 41 00:01:51,333 --> 00:01:54,759 always considered it a great privilege to work with people 42 00:01:54,759 --> 00:01:59,430 who are so smart and, in many ways, so very kind as well. 43 00:01:59,430 --> 00:02:03,330 In terms of, "What was it like to work at SES?" 44 00:02:03,330 --> 00:02:06,369 It was a lovely experience, 45 00:02:06,369 --> 00:02:09,333 life-changing experience, I'll say, actually. 46 00:02:09,333 --> 00:02:11,850 The way I ended up working at SES is 47 00:02:11,850 --> 00:02:15,999 I worked for GE Capital for many years. 48 00:02:15,999 --> 00:02:18,833 Then I ended up transferring to their satellite business, 49 00:02:18,833 --> 00:02:20,930 which was headquartered in Princeton, New Jersey. 50 00:02:20,930 --> 00:02:22,340 And three months later, 51 00:02:22,340 --> 00:02:25,610 we were sold to a tiny company called SES, 52 00:02:25,610 --> 00:02:28,499 in the tiny country of Luxembourg. 53 00:02:28,499 --> 00:02:30,330 Now, you can maybe imagine 54 00:02:30,330 --> 00:02:35,230 going from working for this giant company 55 00:02:35,230 --> 00:02:37,999 being acquired by a small company. 56 00:02:37,999 --> 00:02:39,690 We all had choices to stay, 57 00:02:39,690 --> 00:02:45,730 or to maybe move on with our careers, or to stay with SES. 58 00:02:45,730 --> 00:02:48,680 And the best decision that I made, career decision, 59 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,920 was to stay with SES, and the reason is because, 60 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:54,930 at that point, I was an HR manager, 61 00:02:54,930 --> 00:02:58,166 or also known as a generalist. 62 00:02:58,166 --> 00:03:03,610 And what we discovered is that as an HR person, 63 00:03:03,610 --> 00:03:05,860 and then eventually as a leader, 64 00:03:05,860 --> 00:03:07,360 our decisions really mattered 65 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,832 when you worked for a small company. 66 00:03:09,832 --> 00:03:11,180 Where when we worked for GE 67 00:03:11,180 --> 00:03:13,330 we were often in execution mode. 68 00:03:13,330 --> 00:03:15,769 So then to move from a big company 69 00:03:15,769 --> 00:03:17,980 where the big decisions were being made in Connecticut. 70 00:03:17,980 --> 00:03:20,400 To a small company where they were relying on us 71 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,900 in Princeton to help guide 72 00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:24,480 the corporate office in Luxembourg, 73 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,165 which, again, it was a very small company. 74 00:03:27,165 --> 00:03:32,520 It really mattered and it helped to develop our confidence. 75 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,010 And then as I evolved in terms of leadership 76 00:03:37,010 --> 00:03:40,629 and the company moving up in the organization, 77 00:03:40,629 --> 00:03:43,319 that happened more rapidly 78 00:03:43,319 --> 00:03:45,290 because of the size of the company 79 00:03:45,290 --> 00:03:48,269 than it would have happened with GE. 80 00:03:48,269 --> 00:03:52,329 Working for a company that's headquartered in Europe 81 00:03:52,329 --> 00:03:54,469 was a real game changer, as well. 82 00:03:54,469 --> 00:03:57,350 Because I needed to put on a different hat 83 00:03:57,350 --> 00:04:02,200 and look at work and look at the world through a different lens, 84 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,450 not just an American lens, which was fine. 85 00:04:05,450 --> 00:04:07,498 But, now, I really needed to understand, 86 00:04:07,498 --> 00:04:09,110 "Hey, how do we do leadership? 87 00:04:09,110 --> 00:04:11,709 How do our accountants and finance people, 88 00:04:11,709 --> 00:04:13,769 how do they need to work together 89 00:04:13,769 --> 00:04:16,470 from Europe, between Europe and the U.S.? 90 00:04:16,470 --> 00:04:18,665 How do our rocket scientists work together. 91 00:04:18,665 --> 00:04:20,498 How do we merge these two cultures, 92 00:04:20,498 --> 00:04:25,070 very different country cultures, and company cultures?" 93 00:04:25,070 --> 00:04:28,400 So it was quite a learning experience, for me, 94 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,370 something that I could have never gained at GE, 95 00:04:31,370 --> 00:04:32,480 and in the position that I was in, 96 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:33,910 and it's something that I would've never gained 97 00:04:33,910 --> 00:04:36,165 just through university. 98 00:04:36,165 --> 00:04:37,165 - That's so fascinating, 99 00:04:37,165 --> 00:04:40,165 and I'm glad you made the switch and stayed on. 100 00:04:40,165 --> 00:04:44,509 All right, I loved what you said about having problems to solve, 101 00:04:44,509 --> 00:04:47,998 actually loving the fact that you have problems to solve. 102 00:04:47,998 --> 00:04:51,165 Now, tell me when Covid-19 hit, 103 00:04:51,165 --> 00:04:53,831 it must have been very difficult for SES. 104 00:04:53,831 --> 00:04:55,900 Because satellite making or maintaining them 105 00:04:55,900 --> 00:04:57,770 is not something that you can take back home 106 00:04:57,770 --> 00:05:00,410 with your laptop and do it from your dining table. 107 00:05:00,410 --> 00:05:02,498 So how did the leaders, and the people teams, 108 00:05:02,498 --> 00:05:06,120 in SES make this new reality work? 109 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,140 - I think it was extraordinary, what happened. 110 00:05:08,140 --> 00:05:14,930 I had a front-row seat because I was part of a task force, 111 00:05:14,930 --> 00:05:17,050 the Covid task force, and we would meet weekly, 112 00:05:17,050 --> 00:05:22,120 and I was on that team for several months and until I retired. 113 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,300 But watching the team, which was led 114 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:27,550 by our human resources leader, Evie Roos, at the time. 115 00:05:27,550 --> 00:05:30,164 It was extraordinary, the decisions that they were making 116 00:05:30,229 --> 00:05:32,680 and the stakes were so high. 117 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,831 Part of our satellite business is, certainly, 118 00:05:34,831 --> 00:05:36,220 working with space engineers, 119 00:05:36,220 --> 00:05:38,664 and satellite engineers, and rocket scientists. 120 00:05:38,664 --> 00:05:41,664 But we also have, just as important, 121 00:05:41,664 --> 00:05:45,770 dynamite teams of people who actually operate. 122 00:05:45,770 --> 00:05:49,210 And I'll say quote-unquote, "Fly our satellites." 123 00:05:49,210 --> 00:05:50,998 They work 24/7. 124 00:05:50,998 --> 00:05:54,331 And, so, what were we going to do with them? 125 00:05:54,331 --> 00:05:59,800 So certainly we allowed, I'll say 95% of the organization 126 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,300 to work from home, or the vast majority, 127 00:06:02,300 --> 00:06:06,180 and that was a whole another challenge and project. 128 00:06:06,180 --> 00:06:07,810 But then we have this other group of people 129 00:06:07,810 --> 00:06:09,610 where we can't allow them to work from home. 130 00:06:09,610 --> 00:06:12,331 We really needed them to come into the office. 131 00:06:12,331 --> 00:06:17,050 To sit at the monitors and to take care of that part 132 00:06:17,050 --> 00:06:20,997 of our very important, essential, part of our business. 133 00:06:20,997 --> 00:06:23,831 And, so, it was really around listening, 134 00:06:23,831 --> 00:06:26,831 and listening to what people recommended. 135 00:06:26,831 --> 00:06:29,164 Listening to the experts in the field. 136 00:06:29,164 --> 00:06:33,800 Listening to the supervisors and the employees, 137 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,530 and just making decisions based on what was best for them. 138 00:06:37,530 --> 00:06:40,831 So, for instance, the folks who were our satellite operators, 139 00:06:40,831 --> 00:06:43,229 who had to come into the office every day, 140 00:06:43,229 --> 00:06:45,831 we had meals delivered to them. 141 00:06:45,831 --> 00:06:48,497 It was an extremely sterile environment. 142 00:06:48,497 --> 00:06:54,830 If there was anyone who was near someone who had Covid, 143 00:06:54,830 --> 00:06:57,340 then, that person needed to quarantine. 144 00:06:57,340 --> 00:07:01,690 It was very strict because you can imagine potential disaster 145 00:07:01,690 --> 00:07:03,710 of having a team of people, 146 00:07:03,710 --> 00:07:05,997 who can no longer come into the office 147 00:07:05,997 --> 00:07:09,849 to fly satellites because Covid has spread through there. 148 00:07:09,849 --> 00:07:14,509 It was executed exceptionally, 149 00:07:14,509 --> 00:07:16,449 so that was just one area of our business. 150 00:07:16,449 --> 00:07:21,449 And, then, of course, there's the challenge of allowing 151 00:07:21,449 --> 00:07:24,497 the vast majority of our employees to work from home. 152 00:07:24,497 --> 00:07:27,330 And, so, how do you do that? 153 00:07:27,330 --> 00:07:28,164 What's needed? 154 00:07:28,164 --> 00:07:30,069 What's required in terms of laptops, 155 00:07:30,069 --> 00:07:31,910 and equipment, and chairs, 156 00:07:31,910 --> 00:07:34,497 and everything else that goes along with that. 157 00:07:34,497 --> 00:07:37,330 And, then, as a lot of companies discovered, 158 00:07:37,330 --> 00:07:40,120 we also discovered that it was working quite well. 159 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,550 Our platform for communications is Microsoft Teams, 160 00:07:44,550 --> 00:07:47,190 and people discovered that they were working, 161 00:07:47,190 --> 00:07:50,699 in many cases, actually harder than when they were coming into the office 162 00:07:50,699 --> 00:07:52,190 because they were getting up early 163 00:07:52,190 --> 00:07:55,997 and they were just burning through the day, nonstop, into the evening 164 00:07:55,997 --> 00:08:00,330 And, so, in terms of burnout, 165 00:08:00,330 --> 00:08:04,997 people feeling stressed, we had to be really careful about that. 166 00:08:04,997 --> 00:08:08,419 That people weren't working so incredibly hard 167 00:08:08,419 --> 00:08:10,163 that there would be mistakes, 168 00:08:10,163 --> 00:08:13,330 and that there would be illnesses and things along those lines. 169 00:08:13,330 --> 00:08:15,849 At the end of the day, the employees appreciated 170 00:08:15,849 --> 00:08:20,330 the great work done by this cross-functional task force. 171 00:08:20,330 --> 00:08:23,996 Which was led by our human resources leader 172 00:08:23,996 --> 00:08:27,830 and, certainly our CEO, Steve Collar, talked about it many times, 173 00:08:27,830 --> 00:08:31,289 how incredibly impressed he was with our leadership. 174 00:08:31,289 --> 00:08:34,870 But more so with our employees for stepping up 175 00:08:34,870 --> 00:08:40,496 and for keeping the business moving forward. 176 00:08:40,496 --> 00:08:42,830 - Wow, thanks for sharing that with me. 177 00:08:42,830 --> 00:08:44,950 And that definitely has a potential 178 00:08:44,950 --> 00:08:48,996 to be a case study and maybe, possibly, a film one day. 179 00:08:48,996 --> 00:08:52,640 And talking about films I have to ask you this, 180 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,760 about the documentary that you made, 181 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,390 "The Heart of Camden." 182 00:08:56,390 --> 00:08:58,090 What inspired you to make a documentary, 183 00:08:58,090 --> 00:09:00,021 while working as an HR professional 184 00:09:00,021 --> 00:09:03,163 at such a huge company? 185 00:09:03,163 --> 00:09:06,420 - Well, it began with my first documentary, 186 00:09:06,420 --> 00:09:09,163 which is called, "Dovere of Camden." 187 00:09:09,163 --> 00:09:14,110 And Dovere is an Italian word for duty or responsibility, 188 00:09:14,110 --> 00:09:17,280 and that was a 26-minute documentary 189 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,329 that I made, well, for kicks, I just wanted to see if I could. 190 00:09:22,329 --> 00:09:26,440 What's the process, understand the process to make a film, 191 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:27,770 to make a documentary, I should say. 192 00:09:27,770 --> 00:09:31,190 I'd made a few films before that for the corporate world, 193 00:09:31,190 --> 00:09:33,996 but which were parodies of mainstream films, 194 00:09:33,996 --> 00:09:37,996 and it was more for edutainment, I'll say. 195 00:09:37,996 --> 00:09:40,220 Educating people with an entertaining way. 196 00:09:40,220 --> 00:09:43,690 But then I wanted to make a film, a documentary, 197 00:09:43,690 --> 00:09:45,500 and there was this particular topic 198 00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:52,200 of an abandoned bar in one of the country's 199 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,329 most impoverished cities, Camden, New Jersey. 200 00:09:55,329 --> 00:09:58,750 And there were two fellas who were involved with others, 201 00:09:58,750 --> 00:10:01,470 who raised this bar basically from the ashes 202 00:10:01,470 --> 00:10:05,662 and turned it into this city's only live theater, great. 203 00:10:05,662 --> 00:10:08,480 And we were accepted into film festivals, 204 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:09,529 we won a few awards. 205 00:10:09,529 --> 00:10:11,240 Which was quite a shock to me 206 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,430 because when you make a film, 207 00:10:14,430 --> 00:10:15,990 what happens is you get so close to it 208 00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:18,829 that you tend to lose perspective if it's any good or not. 209 00:10:18,829 --> 00:10:21,950 But this apparently was appreciated by people. 210 00:10:21,950 --> 00:10:25,162 And the feedback we got from folks was that it was quite inspiring. 211 00:10:25,162 --> 00:10:29,279 People said, "It makes me think, 'How can I make a difference 212 00:10:29,279 --> 00:10:29,995 in my neighborhood? 213 00:10:29,995 --> 00:10:32,650 If these two guys did this in Camden, New Jersey?'" 214 00:10:32,650 --> 00:10:35,829 So that really made me think, 215 00:10:35,829 --> 00:10:39,420 "Okay, maybe, I'll make another documentary." 216 00:10:39,420 --> 00:10:44,662 And sure enough, what happened is at the New Jersey Film Festival, 217 00:10:44,662 --> 00:10:46,380 where the film played, 218 00:10:46,380 --> 00:10:49,480 There were people in the audience from Camden, 219 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,890 from an organization called The Heart of Camden. 220 00:10:52,890 --> 00:10:54,540 And about a year later, they reached out 221 00:10:54,540 --> 00:10:56,170 and they said, "We watched this film 222 00:10:56,170 --> 00:10:59,019 and we were wondering, 'Would you be interested 223 00:10:59,019 --> 00:11:00,350 in making another documentary?' 224 00:11:00,350 --> 00:11:05,019 This one on a Catholic priest named Father Michael Doyle. 225 00:11:05,019 --> 00:11:10,260 He's getting ready to retire, and his health is not great, 226 00:11:10,260 --> 00:11:14,370 and it's an incredible man who's done some amazing things. 227 00:11:14,370 --> 00:11:20,760 And, so, we'd like to document his story 228 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,649 or the stories that he tells 229 00:11:22,649 --> 00:11:24,389 because he's a wonderful storyteller. 230 00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:26,240 He was born and raised in Ireland." 231 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,200 And, so, of course, I was thrilled and honored 232 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,649 to be asked to do it, so I jumped at it. 233 00:11:32,649 --> 00:11:36,100 And, so, I said, "Look, there's more to this 234 00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:40,360 than just simply documenting Father Doyle's stories. 235 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,350 Let's tell his story and let's tell the story 236 00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:45,550 of the Heart of Camden organization." 237 00:11:45,550 --> 00:11:48,480 And this all came from a wonderful couple 238 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,700 named Ann and Mark Baiada and they own BAYADA. 239 00:11:51,700 --> 00:11:54,140 In fact, they're the founders of BAYADA Nursing, 240 00:11:54,140 --> 00:11:56,260 in the United States. 241 00:11:56,260 --> 00:11:57,931 And they were so inspired by Father Doyle 242 00:11:57,931 --> 00:12:00,370 that they're the folks who funded the film, 243 00:12:00,370 --> 00:12:03,360 and the idea of creating a film was their idea. 244 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,440 So you could say they were the executive producers, 245 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,870 if you will, wonderful people. 246 00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:13,100 And, so, we needed a budget 247 00:12:13,100 --> 00:12:15,570 and they paid for the film. 248 00:12:15,570 --> 00:12:17,339 I agreed to do it pro bono 249 00:12:17,339 --> 00:12:21,510 because both films I completed pro bono 250 00:12:21,510 --> 00:12:24,250 because it was just my desire 251 00:12:24,250 --> 00:12:26,949 to give back a little bit, if I could. 252 00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:28,320 But I used the money 253 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,320 to hire a professional production organization, 254 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:39,089 a film production company, called ArtC, out of South Jersey, 255 00:12:39,089 --> 00:12:42,730 which is founded by a fellow named Bill Horin. 256 00:12:42,730 --> 00:12:44,660 And they were able to really give the film 257 00:12:44,660 --> 00:12:51,220 a very clean, professional, lovely look, sound, everything. 258 00:12:51,220 --> 00:12:54,889 And then they relied on me maybe to help shape 259 00:12:54,889 --> 00:12:57,180 and craft the story behind it. 260 00:12:57,180 --> 00:12:59,540 So I was the producer/director of it, if you will. 261 00:12:59,540 --> 00:13:01,760 And, so, we created this film 262 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,649 and it's a 44-minute documentary. 263 00:13:04,649 --> 00:13:10,680 That documents the journey of a fairly regular man, 264 00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:13,610 who did some extraordinary things 265 00:13:13,610 --> 00:13:16,290 to help improve a neighborhood, 266 00:13:16,290 --> 00:13:21,480 within a very impoverished city, again, Camden, New Jersey. 267 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:26,327 We reached out to Martin Sheen, the famous actor, 268 00:13:26,327 --> 00:13:29,994 who narrated another film, 269 00:13:29,994 --> 00:13:36,827 that had to do with Father Doyle's poetry, called "The Poet of Poverty". 270 00:13:36,827 --> 00:13:40,259 And he called me and he said, "I'm in." 271 00:13:40,259 --> 00:13:43,827 Which I was shocked, as you can imagine my reaction to that. 272 00:13:43,839 --> 00:13:45,269 To hear from him, first of all, 273 00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:47,660 the fact that he responded to my letter, 274 00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:49,820 and he's such a wonderful guy to work with. 275 00:13:49,820 --> 00:13:53,494 He also did it pro bono, that was his contribution to give back, 276 00:13:53,494 --> 00:13:55,160 he's a wonderful human being. 277 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:56,820 So we created this film 278 00:13:56,820 --> 00:14:00,327 and we were accepted into 16 film festivals, 279 00:14:00,327 --> 00:14:03,160 we won a number of awards. 280 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,050 And just as, importantly, as the film festivals is, 281 00:14:06,050 --> 00:14:10,240 Ann Baiada had a vision of taking it to universities, which we did, 282 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,380 and we would show the movie to faculty and to students. 283 00:14:14,380 --> 00:14:19,160 And every single time, probably, a half a dozen colleges, 284 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:20,759 folks would volunteer to get involved 285 00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:24,000 to help the Heart of Camden organization, 286 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,550 so the movies really had an impact. 287 00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:29,180 We were picked up by a distribution company, 288 00:14:29,180 --> 00:14:31,350 and that distribution company told us, recently, 289 00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:36,160 that there's a firm who would like to distribute it 290 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,327 or, certainly, show it throughout the Middle East, of all places. 291 00:14:39,327 --> 00:14:43,827 It'll be translated into Arabic, and it's being picked up by other, 292 00:14:43,827 --> 00:14:45,730 I'll say, relatively, smaller companies 293 00:14:45,730 --> 00:14:47,493 that are niche-related, 294 00:14:47,493 --> 00:14:52,259 not like Netflix or the big ones, but smaller companies. 295 00:14:52,259 --> 00:14:55,160 But the movie is out there and people are watching it, 296 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,993 and every time folks watch it, 297 00:14:57,993 --> 00:15:00,880 I'm always so pleased with their feedback 298 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,920 about how inspired they are by Father Doyle, 299 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:10,326 and his statement to just simply, "Do your bit." 300 00:15:10,326 --> 00:15:13,493 So that's a little bit about the documentary. 301 00:15:13,493 --> 00:15:17,490 - Well, that's such a huge feat and done entirely pro bono. 302 00:15:17,490 --> 00:15:21,160 On this podcast, we usually talk about finance-related topics, 303 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,040 and I can only thank you for bringing 304 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,410 another aspect through your story, today, 305 00:15:25,410 --> 00:15:26,970 because that's important, too, 306 00:15:26,970 --> 00:15:29,660 the social aspect of doing great work. 307 00:15:29,660 --> 00:15:30,710 - Oh, sure thing. 308 00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:37,720 Yes, again, I worked for GE and it was GE Capital 309 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,389 and everything was about finance, 310 00:15:39,389 --> 00:15:42,160 I mean, everything was about finance. 311 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,860 And, so, I learned, at a very young age 312 00:15:44,860 --> 00:15:49,993 in the corporate world, that finance is absolutely essential. 313 00:15:49,993 --> 00:15:53,659 And there's the accounting function, which is critical. 314 00:15:53,659 --> 00:15:56,250 I mean, if those areas are not working, 315 00:15:56,250 --> 00:15:59,770 then companies can come to a screeching halt, 316 00:15:59,770 --> 00:16:03,860 and the integrity behind the Chief Financial Officer 317 00:16:03,860 --> 00:16:05,659 and the decisions that they have to make. 318 00:16:05,659 --> 00:16:10,790 And, so, being a part of the leadership team for SES. 319 00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:16,659 Sitting, basically, at the table right next to our various CFOs, 320 00:16:16,659 --> 00:16:18,259 I saw, up close and personal, 321 00:16:18,259 --> 00:16:21,920 the pressure that they're under to make the right decisions. 322 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,630 To tell the right story and accurate story, 323 00:16:24,630 --> 00:16:27,992 it's serious business. 324 00:16:27,992 --> 00:16:29,992 - Thanks for acknowledging that, Doug. 325 00:16:29,992 --> 00:16:33,639 Now, my listeners will not forgive me if I don't ask you this, 326 00:16:33,639 --> 00:16:36,019 because you mentioned making parodies of films 327 00:16:36,019 --> 00:16:37,992 for entertainment purposes. 328 00:16:37,992 --> 00:16:39,492 Can you tell us more about that? 329 00:16:39,492 --> 00:16:42,269 And I remember you telling me about this huge experiment 330 00:16:42,269 --> 00:16:44,492 that you did, tell us more, please. 331 00:16:44,492 --> 00:16:48,540 - Oh, sure thing, yes, we had great fun. 332 00:16:48,540 --> 00:16:53,320 It really started when I was in the fourth grade, 333 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,159 there was a sixth-grade teacher named Mr. Mena, 334 00:16:55,159 --> 00:16:56,320 who was a new teacher. 335 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,550 And he, instead of doing the annual class play, 336 00:16:59,550 --> 00:17:02,110 which was fun but kind of corny. 337 00:17:02,110 --> 00:17:03,220 He decided to make a movie 338 00:17:03,220 --> 00:17:07,325 and it was a parody on "Robinhood", and it featured the children. 339 00:17:07,325 --> 00:17:08,890 And, so, they wrote the story, 340 00:17:08,890 --> 00:17:12,492 the kids in the class were playing "Robinhood", et cetera, 341 00:17:12,492 --> 00:17:14,100 and we just went completely crazy. 342 00:17:14,100 --> 00:17:16,089 And I was probably about 10 years' old 343 00:17:16,089 --> 00:17:18,540 when I watched that, and I never forgot it. 344 00:17:18,540 --> 00:17:23,660 So you fast-forward to my time in human resources 345 00:17:23,660 --> 00:17:25,809 after we were acquired by SES, 346 00:17:25,809 --> 00:17:29,000 and I decided to make a parody on "The Godfather", 347 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,960 "The Godfather of Values." 348 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,610 It was the company's pretty boring, stale company values, 349 00:17:35,610 --> 00:17:38,992 and we needed to promote them and to educate them. 350 00:17:38,992 --> 00:17:41,992 So we did a parody on "The Godfather", 351 00:17:41,992 --> 00:17:45,325 featuring employees and people loved it, 352 00:17:45,325 --> 00:17:46,650 they went crazy over it, 353 00:17:46,650 --> 00:17:49,825 and that was, literally, a zero-budget movie. 354 00:17:49,825 --> 00:17:54,570 And then we did another parody on "Star Trek, Execution". 355 00:17:54,570 --> 00:17:57,325 And it was a story of our CEO, as a child, 356 00:17:57,325 --> 00:18:01,530 and how he became inspired to really embrace execution 357 00:18:01,530 --> 00:18:05,992 as a very important leadership competency 358 00:18:05,992 --> 00:18:08,370 featuring Captain Kirk and all of this other stuff, 359 00:18:08,370 --> 00:18:10,510 and then we stepped our game up. 360 00:18:10,510 --> 00:18:13,100 I was transferred to Luxembourg, in 2007, 361 00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:14,492 for a six-month assignment. 362 00:18:14,492 --> 00:18:15,992 And folks who saw "The Godfather" 363 00:18:15,992 --> 00:18:17,658 said, "Hey, can you make a movie over here?" 364 00:18:17,658 --> 00:18:19,370 And I said, "Absolutely." 365 00:18:19,370 --> 00:18:20,659 And then they gave us a budget. 366 00:18:20,659 --> 00:18:23,825 We had a 20,000-Euro budget, which was crazy. 367 00:18:23,825 --> 00:18:29,158 I felt like, "This is, probably, what Steven Spielberg is experiencing." 368 00:18:29,158 --> 00:18:30,970 It was major money to us, 369 00:18:30,970 --> 00:18:33,760 so we hired a production company, same thing. 370 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,250 The employees wrote the story, 371 00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:38,158 it featured employees, it featured leaders, 372 00:18:38,158 --> 00:18:43,491 and for our staff only, it was a James Bond parody. 373 00:18:43,491 --> 00:18:50,620 And it was to educate people, employees, on our job competencies 374 00:18:50,620 --> 00:18:53,325 that were being introduced to the company. 375 00:18:53,325 --> 00:18:55,960 And as I mentioned earlier, when you make a film, 376 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,280 you're not sure if it's any good, you're just so close to it. 377 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,825 You think, "Oh, it's probably not very good." 378 00:19:01,825 --> 00:19:04,160 They went completely crazy with this movie, 379 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,760 I was shocked it was a blast. 380 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,991 When we showed it, we had the executive staff, in Luxembourg, 381 00:19:10,991 --> 00:19:14,324 hand out popcorn and candy before the movies, 382 00:19:14,324 --> 00:19:18,158 and it just exploded, we handed out that. 383 00:19:18,158 --> 00:19:19,230 We had gifts for them, 384 00:19:19,230 --> 00:19:23,350 a DVD set in a professional box, [Indistinct] and a little pen, 385 00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:25,400 which was an atomic pen that James Bond 386 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,491 used in the movie, blah, blah, blah. 387 00:19:27,491 --> 00:19:29,120 So, make a long story short, 388 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,900 this is the first time that I saw a movie 389 00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:35,110 not just simply educate and entertain people, 390 00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:38,470 but people told me that that film 391 00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:43,500 began to change the culture in the Luxembourg office. 392 00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:48,860 It went from a place that was very structured, 393 00:19:48,860 --> 00:19:53,824 very hierarchical, to something that became more fun. 394 00:19:53,824 --> 00:19:54,991 And that's the first time that I thought 395 00:19:54,991 --> 00:19:58,824 "Wow, the film can perhaps begin to change the culture 396 00:19:58,824 --> 00:20:02,824 and influence people at a little bit deeper level." 397 00:20:02,824 --> 00:20:05,324 And then we made a couple of more parodies after that. 398 00:20:05,324 --> 00:20:09,929 We did one, and each time from an education standpoint, 399 00:20:09,929 --> 00:20:10,940 the film would evolve. 400 00:20:10,940 --> 00:20:12,860 We would experiment with different things, 401 00:20:12,860 --> 00:20:14,480 like the most recent one that we made 402 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,620 was a "Mission Impossible" parody, 403 00:20:17,620 --> 00:20:19,620 where Ethan Hunt is trying to find the person 404 00:20:19,620 --> 00:20:22,929 who stole the company's knowledge. 405 00:20:22,929 --> 00:20:24,190 Because it was about introducing 406 00:20:24,190 --> 00:20:25,890 knowledge management to the company. 407 00:20:25,890 --> 00:20:27,160 What a boring topic? 408 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,990 So we made this parody of a "Mission Impossible". 409 00:20:30,990 --> 00:20:33,650 But what we did is there were three pivotal scenes, 410 00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:37,890 and we filmed, we wrote in three different outcomes of the scene, 411 00:20:37,890 --> 00:20:40,220 and then the audience would get to choose 412 00:20:40,220 --> 00:20:42,059 which outcome they think it would be. 413 00:20:42,059 --> 00:20:45,490 So that was our attempt to make it more interactive 414 00:20:45,490 --> 00:20:49,157 and to, maybe, immerse the audience in the film 415 00:20:49,157 --> 00:20:50,157 and the story a bit more. 416 00:20:50,157 --> 00:20:55,657 Which based on my Total Recall experiment, which you mentioned, 417 00:20:55,657 --> 00:20:59,657 what we find is that this was a five-month experiment 418 00:20:59,657 --> 00:21:03,157 that was conducted, it was really for my dissertation. 419 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,490 I went to Penn for my doctoral degree, 420 00:21:05,490 --> 00:21:08,490 much later in my career, while I was working for SES. 421 00:21:08,490 --> 00:21:10,990 And part of a doctoral degree, as you know, is you have 422 00:21:10,990 --> 00:21:15,823 to conduct an experiment and then document it in a dissertation. 423 00:21:15,823 --> 00:21:22,390 So my dissertation topic was, The Impact that Film has on Learning. 424 00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:23,823 Does it have any impact at all? 425 00:21:23,823 --> 00:21:27,030 Maybe you learn less if you show a film, 426 00:21:27,030 --> 00:21:29,050 maybe, you learn more, maybe there's no. 427 00:21:29,050 --> 00:21:31,620 So I was in a unique position 428 00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:34,657 to conduct a five-month experiment, 429 00:21:34,657 --> 00:21:38,990 in a Change Management class where we would teach, 430 00:21:38,990 --> 00:21:41,780 they were basically six main principles 431 00:21:41,780 --> 00:21:45,823 that we wanted people to understand and to learn. 432 00:21:45,823 --> 00:21:48,980 And in some classes, we would augment 433 00:21:48,980 --> 00:21:52,500 our teaching PowerPoint and lecture with film. 434 00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:54,390 In some classes there would be no film. 435 00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:57,620 And then we would have a quiz afterwards 436 00:21:57,620 --> 00:21:59,350 and take a look at the results. 437 00:21:59,350 --> 00:22:02,779 And five months later, when we ran the numbers, 438 00:22:02,779 --> 00:22:05,823 what we found is there was empirical evidence, 439 00:22:05,823 --> 00:22:09,090 that there was this statistically significant increase 440 00:22:09,090 --> 00:22:13,100 in every single instance of using film versus no film. 441 00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:15,500 Even when we controlled for various things 442 00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:18,156 such as managers versus no managers. 443 00:22:18,156 --> 00:22:19,650 Something called the language effect, 444 00:22:19,650 --> 00:22:23,320 which is English is your mother tongue or not. 445 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,823 So there were several things that we controlled for. 446 00:22:25,823 --> 00:22:31,860 Again, the film had a major impact on learning, on retention, 447 00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:35,823 and that's where we came up with the total recall model. 448 00:22:35,823 --> 00:22:38,156 - Wow, thanks for sharing that, Doug. 449 00:22:38,156 --> 00:22:42,989 And I wish all PhDs were this much fun, right? 450 00:22:42,989 --> 00:22:49,940 - Yes, well, our program director at Penn, 451 00:22:49,940 --> 00:22:51,140 a fellow named Doug Lynch, 452 00:22:51,140 --> 00:22:55,156 who at the time said, "You can choose pretty much any topic you want, 453 00:22:55,156 --> 00:22:56,549 but we have to approve it." 454 00:22:56,549 --> 00:22:58,823 So we had lunch and I said, "I want to do either; 455 00:22:58,823 --> 00:23:02,070 The Impact That Humor has on Learning 456 00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:04,156 or The Impact That Film Has." 457 00:23:04,156 --> 00:23:06,100 And he said, "What are you more passionate about?" 458 00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:07,100 I said, "Film." 459 00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:09,322 And he said, "Film is more concrete. 460 00:23:09,322 --> 00:23:13,740 Humor is hard to hold, and see, and all of that, so do it on film." 461 00:23:13,740 --> 00:23:18,179 So I really owe it to him for giving me the thumbs up 462 00:23:18,179 --> 00:23:19,740 and the encouragement to move forward. 463 00:23:19,740 --> 00:23:23,320 But you're right, I remember a professor said 464 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,919 "If you can pick a topic that's fun 465 00:23:26,919 --> 00:23:28,322 and that's interesting to you, 466 00:23:28,322 --> 00:23:32,570 the dissertation process will be significantly easier." 467 00:23:32,570 --> 00:23:34,930 And that person was right. 468 00:23:34,930 --> 00:23:38,489 - Now you can tell it to the rest of the world, I guess. 469 00:23:38,489 --> 00:23:39,809 And I hope leaders are taking notes 470 00:23:39,809 --> 00:23:43,656 on how they can add some spice to drab topics like company values, 471 00:23:43,656 --> 00:23:47,656 ethics, knowledge management, et cetera, in their own companies. 472 00:23:47,656 --> 00:23:50,590 - You know, it's interesting, I've had the good opportunity 473 00:23:50,590 --> 00:23:55,822 to speak on this topic in New York, and Princeton, Atlanta, California. 474 00:23:55,822 --> 00:23:59,370 Every time I do talk about Total Recall, 475 00:23:59,370 --> 00:24:05,809 and I show clips, it's interactive, it's really fun. 476 00:24:05,809 --> 00:24:09,489 People afterwards will ask me, "Hey, can I see a copy of your film? 477 00:24:09,510 --> 00:24:11,090 I'd like to do something like this." 478 00:24:11,090 --> 00:24:12,090 Or what have you. 479 00:24:12,090 --> 00:24:17,191 So it really does get the attention when we talk about it, 480 00:24:17,191 --> 00:24:21,989 it does get the attention of various learning leaders. 481 00:24:21,989 --> 00:24:25,429 - Thanks for giving such great ideas 482 00:24:25,429 --> 00:24:27,489 and inspiration from there. 483 00:24:27,489 --> 00:24:30,840 Now, you've also extensively worked with executive development 484 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,322 and developing potential leaders. 485 00:24:33,322 --> 00:24:36,610 Can you give our listeners, who are team leaders, 486 00:24:36,610 --> 00:24:38,590 some tips on how they can support 487 00:24:38,590 --> 00:24:42,655 and develop leaders in their own organizations? 488 00:24:42,655 --> 00:24:47,410 - Certainly, at SES for instance, and what I'm doing now 489 00:24:47,410 --> 00:24:51,860 as part of my consulting is leadership development. 490 00:24:51,860 --> 00:24:54,049 And that was always my favorite thing, 491 00:24:54,049 --> 00:24:55,890 at SES, was employee development 492 00:24:55,890 --> 00:24:58,610 and certainly leadership development. 493 00:24:58,610 --> 00:25:01,488 It was great fun, there were great opportunities, 494 00:25:01,488 --> 00:25:05,822 and one of the things that works quite well is mentoring. 495 00:25:05,822 --> 00:25:12,020 So if leaders just simply take the time to listen, and to mentor. 496 00:25:12,020 --> 00:25:15,655 What we tell leaders is communication is key. 497 00:25:15,655 --> 00:25:19,155 And as Father Doyle said in the film, "It's the key to everything." 498 00:25:19,155 --> 00:25:20,090 It's the key to families, 499 00:25:20,090 --> 00:25:23,000 it's the key to companies, et cetera. 500 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,510 But communication is key, 501 00:25:24,510 --> 00:25:26,770 and we talk about bi-directional communication 502 00:25:26,770 --> 00:25:29,490 is something that I learned from a fellow named Mark Steinberg. 503 00:25:29,490 --> 00:25:33,230 And the listening part we say 504 00:25:33,230 --> 00:25:36,000 is more important than the speaking part. 505 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,640 So mentor, listen to folks, have a conversation, 506 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,655 have a cup of coffee with them. 507 00:25:41,655 --> 00:25:44,080 Tap into what's important to them. 508 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,321 What do they want? 509 00:25:45,321 --> 00:25:50,380 And then help them on their journey, give them tips, 510 00:25:50,380 --> 00:25:52,799 put them in touch with things 511 00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:54,929 that may have helped you, may have inspired you. 512 00:25:54,929 --> 00:26:01,880 Whether it's a book by a popular author, what have you, 513 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,988 but it is basically tapping into what's important for them, 514 00:26:06,988 --> 00:26:09,350 and then helping them get there. 515 00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:14,988 Showing them that you care, and, really, listening is very important. 516 00:26:14,988 --> 00:26:16,840 Storytelling is important. 517 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,654 As a leader, if you can develop your storytelling skills, 518 00:26:20,654 --> 00:26:25,321 it goes a long way with getting the attention of folks. 519 00:26:25,321 --> 00:26:27,120 Now, what we tell leaders, also, 520 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:32,830 is one of the unsung heroes, I'll say, of leadership competencies, 521 00:26:32,830 --> 00:26:35,230 is influencing skills. 522 00:26:35,230 --> 00:26:39,720 So the more you can influence people the better. 523 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,980 And one way to develop your influencing skills 524 00:26:41,980 --> 00:26:44,970 is by developing your storytelling skills, 525 00:26:44,970 --> 00:26:47,279 if you can lay a story out. 526 00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:50,690 The reason why something has to be done or should be done, 527 00:26:50,690 --> 00:26:56,370 and how to get it done, it's very helpful to folks. 528 00:26:56,370 --> 00:26:58,990 - So true, bringing it back to the basics; 529 00:26:58,990 --> 00:27:01,419 listening, mentoring, and storytelling. 530 00:27:01,419 --> 00:27:03,154 - Mm-hmm, exactly. 531 00:27:03,154 --> 00:27:04,654 - I love how you connected it to mentoring 532 00:27:04,654 --> 00:27:06,850 because the traditional model 533 00:27:06,850 --> 00:27:09,321 of mentor/mentee is now a little outdated. 534 00:27:09,321 --> 00:27:11,750 It's more about co-mentoring, where both parties 535 00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:14,790 are learning from each other and helping each other grow. 536 00:27:14,790 --> 00:27:16,520 - The first time that I ever heard about that, 537 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,330 it was when I was at GE, and Jack Welsh, 538 00:27:19,330 --> 00:27:26,220 and when IT and computers were coming in, and internet. 539 00:27:26,220 --> 00:27:30,310 And these brilliant corporate leaders, 540 00:27:30,310 --> 00:27:34,260 they were really far along in their careers, 541 00:27:34,260 --> 00:27:35,820 and they just had no idea. 542 00:27:35,820 --> 00:27:38,539 So they would do what they called reverse mentoring. 543 00:27:38,539 --> 00:27:41,809 Where they would have younger people in the organization 544 00:27:41,809 --> 00:27:45,559 come and teach them about how to turn a computer on, 545 00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:47,987 I'm being kind of funny, I guess. 546 00:27:47,987 --> 00:27:53,653 But, basically, to learn the basics and then the next step up. 547 00:27:53,653 --> 00:27:54,653 And they felt the best way 548 00:27:54,653 --> 00:27:57,179 that they could learn that is from younger folks. 549 00:27:57,179 --> 00:28:00,487 So there was this reverse mentoring taking place. 550 00:28:00,487 --> 00:28:03,340 But what we find from our executives, 551 00:28:03,340 --> 00:28:07,830 we have an executive mentoring program in place, at SES, 552 00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:13,120 and it's part of what I do with my consulting now as well. 553 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:15,987 And what we hear, consistently, 554 00:28:15,987 --> 00:28:20,409 is the executives say, "It's not just them learning from me, 555 00:28:20,409 --> 00:28:22,779 I'm learning from them as well." 556 00:28:22,779 --> 00:28:25,100 Which is not a surprise to me at all 557 00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:29,090 because I've learned from people a lot more during my career, 558 00:28:29,090 --> 00:28:31,399 who worked for me and who I worked with 559 00:28:31,399 --> 00:28:33,153 than what they've learned from me. 560 00:28:33,153 --> 00:28:35,750 But it's pretty cool to see it as an eye-opener 561 00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:38,960 for executives that, "Oh, I thought they would be learning just from me, 562 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,653 but I'm learning from them as well." 563 00:28:41,653 --> 00:28:44,653 - That's so true, and I learn from my daughter every day. 564 00:28:44,653 --> 00:28:46,820 So there's no [Indistinct] of knowledge 565 00:28:46,820 --> 00:28:51,986 if you let yourself stay open and just listen, like you said. 566 00:28:51,986 --> 00:28:55,730 - What's that saying, parents? 567 00:28:55,730 --> 00:28:57,730 We teach our children about life 568 00:28:57,730 --> 00:29:00,986 and our children teach us what life is about." 569 00:29:00,986 --> 00:29:04,986 - Ah, that's so beautiful, thank you for sharing that. 570 00:29:04,986 --> 00:29:11,330 All right, pivoting back to what you said a little while ago about James Bond, 571 00:29:11,330 --> 00:29:14,320 and how you used that as an inspiration for making movies. 572 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,653 I heard you go by FilmDoc, yourself, a code name. 573 00:29:17,653 --> 00:29:22,110 Tell us more about what you do as a FilmDoc. 574 00:29:22,110 --> 00:29:25,819 - Thanks, yes, it's a play on words. 575 00:29:25,819 --> 00:29:27,600 I'm passionate about film 576 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,653 and when I was going to Penn, it became clear to me, 577 00:29:30,653 --> 00:29:34,250 and some of my classmates and a couple of professors said, 578 00:29:34,250 --> 00:29:37,390 "You're so passionate about film and learning, 579 00:29:37,390 --> 00:29:39,240 you should do more with this." 580 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,370 And, so, film, I'm passionate about it. 581 00:29:42,370 --> 00:29:44,279 Doc is a play on words for my doctoral degree 582 00:29:44,279 --> 00:29:48,153 and for documentaries, so FilmDoc. 583 00:29:48,153 --> 00:29:52,319 And, so, thank you, I'm glad that you're cool with the name. 584 00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:56,130 What I do is leadership development, 585 00:29:56,130 --> 00:30:02,486 and the focus is on developing leaders at all levels, 586 00:30:02,486 --> 00:30:04,819 including individual contributors. 587 00:30:04,819 --> 00:30:08,319 Because, after all, we as individual contributors 588 00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:12,250 have a leadership role to play also. 589 00:30:12,250 --> 00:30:16,110 The curriculum that we've designed 590 00:30:16,110 --> 00:30:22,159 and we've rolled it out in Europe, it consists of a full day of, 591 00:30:22,159 --> 00:30:26,090 in the morning we look at the film, "The Heart of Camden", 592 00:30:26,090 --> 00:30:28,152 the story of Father Michael Doyle. 593 00:30:28,152 --> 00:30:32,070 And we ask people, "What are your leadership challenges?" 594 00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:34,486 And then we look at the film, it's a 44-minute film, 595 00:30:34,486 --> 00:30:36,950 we look at it in two parts to dissect it, 596 00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:39,450 to look at examples of leadership that they see, 597 00:30:39,450 --> 00:30:41,640 or maybe there's a lack of leadership, what have you. 598 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,860 And, then it's always internalizing 599 00:30:43,860 --> 00:30:49,319 and always putting it back on to the audience, on to the participants. 600 00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:53,319 And then in the afternoon, we talk a little bit about the leadership 601 00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:56,820 that's required to actually make a movie, to make a film. 602 00:30:56,820 --> 00:30:58,691 What did I experience making the film, 603 00:30:58,691 --> 00:31:00,485 and what competencies were important? 604 00:31:00,485 --> 00:31:01,652 What mistakes did I make 605 00:31:01,652 --> 00:31:04,485 and what would I have done differently? Et cetera. 606 00:31:04,485 --> 00:31:07,200 And the reason is because what we have found is that 607 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,485 when we talk about leadership and leadership competencies 608 00:31:09,485 --> 00:31:13,652 in the frame, or through the lens of art, 609 00:31:13,652 --> 00:31:16,485 whether it's Shakespeare or what have you, 610 00:31:16,485 --> 00:31:21,669 it seems to connect with people at a deeper level. 611 00:31:21,669 --> 00:31:22,669 We've done this before, 612 00:31:22,669 --> 00:31:24,559 and I've seen it done with Olivier Mythodrama 613 00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:27,779 and some other organizations and it's very effective. 614 00:31:27,779 --> 00:31:29,429 And, so, to talk about leadership 615 00:31:29,429 --> 00:31:34,670 through the lens of filmmaking, it is exciting to the audience. 616 00:31:34,670 --> 00:31:36,320 I wasn't sure how this would go over, 617 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,818 but the feedback has been very positive. 618 00:31:37,818 --> 00:31:41,318 I've been invited back a few times, I'm very blessed to do it, 619 00:31:41,318 --> 00:31:44,030 so it must be working. 620 00:31:44,030 --> 00:31:47,880 And then what we do is, we then talk about 621 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,250 who is your inspiring leader? 622 00:31:50,250 --> 00:31:52,652 Who's inspired you? 623 00:31:52,652 --> 00:31:56,860 And we talk about what it takes to actually make a film. 624 00:31:56,860 --> 00:32:00,260 So not just leadership, but here's how you make a film, 625 00:32:00,260 --> 00:32:03,409 it's about an hour worth of discussion. 626 00:32:03,409 --> 00:32:05,220 And then we break them into groups of three. 627 00:32:05,220 --> 00:32:09,651 We tell them to go away, and then to come back in an hour, 628 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,130 and then pitch their idea of their film, 629 00:32:14,130 --> 00:32:16,140 and that we pretend that we're a venture capitalist 630 00:32:16,140 --> 00:32:19,190 and we want to invest in the next brief film, 631 00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:20,470 and then they do that. 632 00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:22,110 And then we tell them, "Okay, now, indeed, 633 00:32:22,110 --> 00:32:23,299 you will make a film. 634 00:32:23,299 --> 00:32:25,930 You'll have a month, in groups of three, 635 00:32:25,930 --> 00:32:27,919 to make a film, a micro short." 636 00:32:27,919 --> 00:32:31,639 A micro short is a film that could last anywhere from two to five minutes, 637 00:32:31,639 --> 00:32:33,651 so it's not a daunting task. 638 00:32:33,651 --> 00:32:39,700 And they'll use their mobile devices, very basic free editing 639 00:32:39,700 --> 00:32:41,659 such as iMovie or something like that. 640 00:32:41,659 --> 00:32:45,539 And, then, they'll make their film, and then they'll get to show it 641 00:32:45,539 --> 00:32:50,049 to their organization at a leadership film festival, 642 00:32:50,049 --> 00:32:52,640 and there's going to be a director Q&A, et cetera, 643 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,350 so they're quite excited about it. 644 00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:58,080 The other option is there are some firms, 645 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,769 who may not want to do an afternoon of filmmaking. 646 00:33:02,769 --> 00:33:05,984 So, instead, what we offer is an afternoon 647 00:33:05,984 --> 00:33:09,484 of storytelling for leaders, 648 00:33:09,484 --> 00:33:15,030 or writing, creating your leadership manifesto. 649 00:33:15,030 --> 00:33:18,820 What kind of a leader do I want to be? 650 00:33:18,820 --> 00:33:21,850 How do I want people to see me and how will I get there? 651 00:33:21,850 --> 00:33:24,600 And then the other offering, separate from that curriculum, 652 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,840 is a high-potential program, 653 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,140 which should be broken into three categories. 654 00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:35,080 The first module is Leading Self, about self-awareness. 655 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,010 We need to be clear who we are, as leaders, before we can lead others. 656 00:33:39,010 --> 00:33:40,090 The next one is Leading Others, 657 00:33:40,090 --> 00:33:42,870 and the third one is more strategic in nature, 658 00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:44,984 Leading the Organization. 659 00:33:44,984 --> 00:33:49,100 And those three, there's mentoring involved with it. 660 00:33:49,100 --> 00:33:51,679 There is a dynamite skills assessment, 661 00:33:51,679 --> 00:33:54,030 leadership skills assessment, in the very beginning. 662 00:33:54,030 --> 00:33:59,317 Which includes a 360 and then also includes a personality assessment, 663 00:33:59,317 --> 00:34:02,630 and the feedback about that has been fantastic. 664 00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:04,580 That's something that I learned 665 00:34:04,580 --> 00:34:08,317 and that I helped to co-develop at SES as well. 666 00:34:08,317 --> 00:34:10,339 - And that doesn't surprise me at all. 667 00:34:10,339 --> 00:34:12,050 It's definitely an innovative way 668 00:34:12,050 --> 00:34:14,260 to start a dialogue around leadership 669 00:34:14,260 --> 00:34:18,484 and, of course, learning from an award-winning director like you. 670 00:34:18,484 --> 00:34:22,484 All right, so, now, we have time for just one final question. 671 00:34:22,619 --> 00:34:24,650 I really enjoyed chatting with you today 672 00:34:24,650 --> 00:34:27,690 and I wish we could keep on talking. 673 00:34:27,690 --> 00:34:30,360 But one last thought I wanted to hear from you, 674 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,010 was if you could give a mantra of success to people. 675 00:34:34,010 --> 00:34:37,909 Who dream of a global career, an exciting career like yours, 676 00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:40,817 what would be a mantra for success? 677 00:34:40,817 --> 00:34:46,370 - Find out, it's really simple, it's nothing terribly original. 678 00:34:46,370 --> 00:34:50,983 But someone told me, a really wise leader, 679 00:34:50,983 --> 00:34:54,520 who I had many years ago and I'm friends with today, 680 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,483 Paul Fairley said, "If you do what you love doing, 681 00:34:58,483 --> 00:35:01,380 you'll be successful, success will follow." 682 00:35:01,380 --> 00:35:02,817 And that's what I've tried to follow, 683 00:35:02,817 --> 00:35:05,483 just simply, "What do I love doing?" 684 00:35:05,483 --> 00:35:08,983 I started out working in mortgage banking, 685 00:35:08,983 --> 00:35:12,230 in approving loans for Fannie Mae and then for GE Capital 686 00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:14,550 and in risk management, I didn't love it. 687 00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:15,983 What I loved was working with people. 688 00:35:15,983 --> 00:35:21,650 So I was able to move into human resources and never looked back. 689 00:35:21,650 --> 00:35:25,260 And then from there, education was important to me. 690 00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:26,983 So I went to Villanova and then to Penn, 691 00:35:26,983 --> 00:35:28,270 I had these great opportunities, 692 00:35:28,270 --> 00:35:29,869 the company was super supportive. 693 00:35:29,869 --> 00:35:33,720 So I pursued education because I loved education. 694 00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:38,316 And then film, the more I discovered that film 695 00:35:38,316 --> 00:35:41,700 was very important to me, not just from entertainment, 696 00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:45,140 but for other reasons, more for inspiring then I pursued that. 697 00:35:45,140 --> 00:35:50,450 So it's, basically, just whatever you love doing, pursue that. 698 00:35:50,450 --> 00:35:54,983 I always tell folks, "Don't focus on making a lot of money." 699 00:35:54,983 --> 00:35:56,950 Again, if you're successful, 700 00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:59,960 if you'll do what you love doing and you're successful, 701 00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:04,483 then the financial rewards will most likely follow. 702 00:36:04,483 --> 00:36:07,316 - Wow, I wish you continue to do what you love 703 00:36:07,316 --> 00:36:10,316 and what you're really good at, Doug. 704 00:36:10,316 --> 00:36:12,483 It was such a pleasure to talk to you today. 705 00:36:12,483 --> 00:36:14,816 < Outro > 706 00:36:14,816 --> 00:36:16,483 - This has been Count Me In, 707 00:36:16,483 --> 00:36:19,649 IMA's podcast, providing you with the latest perspectives 708 00:36:19,649 --> 00:36:22,316 of thought leaders from the accounting and finance profession. 709 00:36:22,316 --> 00:36:24,983 If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in 710 00:36:24,983 --> 00:36:27,316 for more relevant accounting and finance education, 711 00:36:27,316 --> 00:36:34,316 visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.