1
00:00:10,148 --> 00:00:12,841
Hey everyone, welcome to Countdown to Laravel Live Denmark.

2
00:00:12,841 --> 00:00:19,648
I'm Mathias Hansen, your host, and today I'm chatting with Peter Suhm who's going to be
speaking at Laravel Live Denmark this August.

3
00:00:21,150 --> 00:00:23,133
Alright, thank you for joining me today Peter.

4
00:00:23,133 --> 00:00:28,188
I know you're a very busy man, working both at Tailwind Labs and Laravel now, right?

5
00:00:29,025 --> 00:00:34,630
Yeah, at least as an experiment right now, I'm trying to what having two jobs is like.

6
00:00:35,955 --> 00:00:38,076
So how's that working for you?

7
00:00:38,622 --> 00:00:41,274
Well, it's working pretty good so far.

8
00:00:41,274 --> 00:00:50,703
em They're both part-time engagements, but, they're sort of using different parts of the
brain, which I think helps too.

9
00:00:50,743 --> 00:01:01,193
The tailwind one is more business focused and admin focused most of the time, even though
I end up writing quite a bit of code sometimes, including today actually.

10
00:01:01,193 --> 00:01:05,106
And then Laravel is much more code heavy right now.

11
00:01:06,505 --> 00:01:15,005
So do you like getting to get a little bit more into coding and doing some more coding
than previously or recently at least?

12
00:01:15,335 --> 00:01:20,061
Yeah, it's fun to get back into it a bit.

13
00:01:20,061 --> 00:01:31,515
eh I find it very fun, especially eh without saying too much about my talk with all the
new tools that we have available now.

14
00:01:31,536 --> 00:01:33,488
It's made it much more fun for me.

15
00:01:34,759 --> 00:01:36,110
Yeah, that makes sense.

16
00:01:36,110 --> 00:01:41,905
ah So I want you to take me back a little bit, because I know you didn't get started
programming last year.

17
00:01:41,905 --> 00:01:43,657
It's probably been a little while.

18
00:01:43,657 --> 00:01:49,181
So how long have you been into computers and programming and tech and stuff like that?

19
00:01:50,173 --> 00:01:59,810
For a very long time, even just Laravel, we know each other from the Laravel uh meetup
group.

20
00:01:59,871 --> 00:02:02,993
And I was part of starting that back in 2014.

21
00:02:02,993 --> 00:02:07,657
And I think at that point I'd already been doing Laravel for one or two years.

22
00:02:07,657 --> 00:02:16,884
And then before that, uh was a lot of, right before that, I worked for a short time as a
Ruby on Rails developer.

23
00:02:16,884 --> 00:02:19,505
But before that it was mostly WordPress.

24
00:02:19,505 --> 00:02:25,930
I think from like a PHP standpoint, but yeah, I got started with it like way back when I
was a kid.

25
00:02:25,930 --> 00:02:31,664
Basically I started making websites and stuff when I was 10, 11 years old.

26
00:02:31,965 --> 00:02:39,591
just found it really fascinating that I remember my dad is a developer as well.

27
00:02:39,591 --> 00:02:45,376
And he's not like a web developer, but he still like sort of understood how it worked a
little bit.

28
00:02:45,376 --> 00:02:48,686
And I remember when I was 10 or something like that, he,

29
00:02:48,828 --> 00:02:53,081
He always gave me access to computers, but they were always his old computer.

30
00:02:53,081 --> 00:02:55,003
So they were always like DOS based.

31
00:02:55,003 --> 00:03:01,548
em And I remember I asked him like how you made a website or something like that.

32
00:03:01,608 --> 00:03:09,174
And he showed me that you could just literally run FTP in MS DOS like on the command line
basically.

33
00:03:09,174 --> 00:03:12,697
So he just showed me how you could just create an HTML file.

34
00:03:12,697 --> 00:03:16,580
Cause I remember it was like a mystery to me like, how do I get it on the internet?

35
00:03:16,921 --> 00:03:17,808
And then.

36
00:03:17,808 --> 00:03:21,409
with our internet connection, you got this like free hosting thing.

37
00:03:21,409 --> 00:03:22,880
I don't remember those.

38
00:03:23,001 --> 00:03:30,304
you got, yeah, so you got some weird like URL that you could basically just have FTP
access to.

39
00:03:30,765 --> 00:03:34,326
And I think it was just like the same credentials that you use for email or something.

40
00:03:34,326 --> 00:03:36,787
And it kind of looked like your email.

41
00:03:36,988 --> 00:03:46,593
And then he just showed me how you could, you could just run FTP on the command line and
your, your HTML file was online and you could access this in a browser.

42
00:03:46,593 --> 00:03:47,693
remember like,

43
00:03:47,890 --> 00:03:51,190
calling my cousin and be like, go to my website.

44
00:03:53,070 --> 00:04:05,250
And the crazy thing about this is whenever I made changes to my website, I remember I had
to like yell down to my parents and ask if I could turn on the internet so I could FTP it

45
00:04:05,250 --> 00:04:06,710
up to the server.

46
00:04:09,150 --> 00:04:17,130
Right, so and then I had to wait until after 7.30 so it was half price and all that stuff.

47
00:04:17,766 --> 00:04:19,499
I remember that too, yeah.

48
00:04:19,686 --> 00:04:21,837
Yeah, so I always got into it really early.

49
00:04:21,837 --> 00:04:34,089
remember like we had to do like a book review uh in school and I remember reading Harry
Potter and I asked the teacher if I could turn it in as a website instead of uh a Word

50
00:04:34,089 --> 00:04:34,969
doc.

51
00:04:35,210 --> 00:04:39,491
And so I made a whole like Harry Potter website as like my assignment.

52
00:04:40,091 --> 00:04:49,306
And then I got into PHP and then I got out of it a little bit but then I remember in high
school I was so like obsessed with like making money and

53
00:04:49,306 --> 00:04:52,587
making, making money on the internet sounded really appealing.

54
00:04:53,268 --> 00:04:59,451
So I was building all these websites to try to make money on the internet and I had to
learn programming to make those work.

55
00:04:59,451 --> 00:05:04,853
So I was kind of, I learned real programming from wanting to make money online.

56
00:05:04,853 --> 00:05:12,797
Then I ended up going to university, do like partly computer science stuff and got more,
more technical there.

57
00:05:12,966 --> 00:05:20,579
So was that when you started getting into Rails or what did you use em back then when you
first started trying to make money online basically?

58
00:05:21,053 --> 00:05:23,654
When I was just running to make money online, it was just PHP.

59
00:05:23,654 --> 00:05:26,556
didn't even know that there was something called a web framework.

60
00:05:26,656 --> 00:05:29,027
So you just build everything from scratch.

61
00:05:29,027 --> 00:05:32,279
You sort of ended up building your own frameworks, if you remember.

62
00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:40,803
Like, cause you didn't even know that that was a thing, but you've quickly realized that
you wanted to abstract stuff more.

63
00:05:42,404 --> 00:05:44,605
But yeah, no, after that it was WordPress.

64
00:05:44,605 --> 00:05:50,108
And then from there on, I discovered Rails somehow and

65
00:05:50,161 --> 00:05:53,886
quickly got a job because apparently there's not a lot of people who could do Rails.

66
00:05:54,728 --> 00:06:00,575
But then Laravel came out and I was like, wow, I can still do PHP and it's just as good as
Rails.

67
00:06:02,023 --> 00:06:12,843
Oh I shared a feeling when Laravel came out I was about to give up on PHP and it's like
maybe this is not the thing and then suddenly oh wait this looks amazing this could

68
00:06:12,843 --> 00:06:14,143
totally work.

69
00:06:14,283 --> 00:06:20,401
So did you start using Laravel you know back Laravel 4 or 5 or something like that or do
remember?

70
00:06:20,401 --> 00:06:27,621
No, yeah, probably almost three, because I think I started in 2012 at least.

71
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,281
Yeah, so I can't remember exactly what version.

72
00:06:30,281 --> 00:06:35,141
I feel like I can remember like the big version four rewrite with composer and everything.

73
00:06:35,141 --> 00:06:41,761
I think I had a chance to see version three first and then version four came and it was
like, wow, this is a whole new world.

74
00:06:43,708 --> 00:06:44,939
man, yeah.

75
00:06:44,999 --> 00:06:45,889
It's been a while.

76
00:06:45,889 --> 00:06:46,840
It's been a while.

77
00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:47,681
Lots.

78
00:06:47,681 --> 00:06:51,703
I mean, all the basics, all the basics of the framework are still the same.

79
00:06:51,703 --> 00:06:57,667
You know, we had curing back then, we had, you know, all the caching drivers and stuff
like that.

80
00:06:57,667 --> 00:07:01,430
oh And it's just more mature now.

81
00:07:01,430 --> 00:07:02,691
That's really cool.

82
00:07:02,691 --> 00:07:06,413
um So have you always been into web development?

83
00:07:06,413 --> 00:07:12,887
Have you ever played around with, you know, doing games or phone apps or I don't know.

84
00:07:13,187 --> 00:07:14,087
Not really.

85
00:07:14,087 --> 00:07:22,163
my, and my interest really, like I can really get into computers and like, remember like
doing like operating systems classes and stuff in university.

86
00:07:22,163 --> 00:07:32,610
And I thought it was really interesting and I could get excited by it, but sort of the
main driver for me has always been like trying to like start businesses and projects and

87
00:07:32,610 --> 00:07:34,861
like there's something I want to see in the world.

88
00:07:34,861 --> 00:07:37,973
So I need to figure out how to like program that.

89
00:07:37,973 --> 00:07:40,014
And it's mostly been web.

90
00:07:40,355 --> 00:07:42,936
I, I remember doing like

91
00:07:43,025 --> 00:07:50,705
I did it like an Android app, probably also high school or maybe first year university or
something like that.

92
00:07:50,705 --> 00:07:58,545
I remember I took it very seriously with my friend who was learning graphic design and it
was like a geography quiz.

93
00:07:58,545 --> 00:08:06,605
And we had a friend who was a musician create the music track that was running in the
background and had really nice, really, really nice graphics.

94
00:08:06,605 --> 00:08:10,085
And then it had this like geography questions.

95
00:08:10,165 --> 00:08:11,865
It was really cool actually.

96
00:08:12,782 --> 00:08:16,693
But that's the only time I think, otherwise it's always just been web.

97
00:08:19,013 --> 00:08:32,405
So you kind of have this, you always had this entrepreneurial mindset of, know, building a
business online and trying to use your programming skills to run a business.

98
00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:34,071
I've always been trying to build a business.

99
00:08:34,071 --> 00:08:40,494
then at one point I realized, wow, doing it online seems like a hack compared to how hard
it is in real life.

100
00:08:40,494 --> 00:08:50,190
Because even when I was a kid, I was trying to make money, like selling stuff on my street
and like selling my old toys and selling plants and selling popcorn.

101
00:08:50,190 --> 00:09:00,055
like, I was always like trying to make money, collect bottles, you know, here in Denmark,
have the, you can make money if you collect bottles and return them to the store.

102
00:09:01,582 --> 00:09:09,617
So do you remember the first thing you ever uh sold online that was a piece of software, a
code you wrote that someone paid for?

103
00:09:09,617 --> 00:09:10,441
Yeah?

104
00:09:10,441 --> 00:09:11,508
Do want to talk about that?

105
00:09:11,508 --> 00:09:11,878
well.

106
00:09:11,878 --> 00:09:16,380
I hope no one is able to find this because it's quite terrible.

107
00:09:16,380 --> 00:09:20,373
This was like before I knew anything about like frameworks.

108
00:09:20,373 --> 00:09:27,297
I didn't know anything about like validation or security or anything like that.

109
00:09:27,297 --> 00:09:33,516
But I built like a website that was basically like a hot or not website.

110
00:09:33,516 --> 00:09:35,691
If you remember those websites.

111
00:09:35,770 --> 00:09:37,371
But you could basically do it for anything.

112
00:09:37,371 --> 00:09:41,744
So you could just, saw a picture of something and you would just rate it and then you show
you the next picture.

113
00:09:41,744 --> 00:09:46,147
em And I thought this was like really cool.

114
00:09:46,147 --> 00:09:49,849
And then I found this website called hotscripts.com.

115
00:09:49,950 --> 00:09:54,260
I think maybe I found some, like I found some code there for another project or something
like that.

116
00:09:54,260 --> 00:09:55,934
So I knew about this site.

117
00:09:55,934 --> 00:10:00,178
So em I signed up for this hotscripts.com website.

118
00:10:00,178 --> 00:10:04,760
I'm pretty sure it was called Hotscripts and it had like a chili pepper or something as
their logo.

119
00:10:04,887 --> 00:10:12,740
and I connected it to my PayPal account and I just put this hot or not script up there for
$25 and I actually sold a few copies.

120
00:10:12,740 --> 00:10:15,191
I can't remember like maybe five or 10 of them.

121
00:10:15,451 --> 00:10:24,875
So it just like once in a while, like even years after I would just get a PayPal
notification that I made $25 but it was really mind blowing to me that it was possible.

122
00:10:24,932 --> 00:10:29,004
That's cool, so you basically sold code you wrote on a marketplace.

123
00:10:29,004 --> 00:10:36,465
Yeah, so it's basically you just bought this uh app if you wanted to spin up your own hot
or not style website where people could rate an image of some sort.

124
00:10:36,465 --> 00:10:37,446
em

125
00:10:39,363 --> 00:10:41,836
I think my own use case was for a recipe website.

126
00:10:41,836 --> 00:10:47,172
think I told you the other day that I used to be into like making websites about cooking
and stuff like that.

127
00:10:47,172 --> 00:10:50,976
So I think you could rate like food pictures or something like that.

128
00:10:50,976 --> 00:10:58,344
I can't remember the details, but I sort of made a generic version and I put it up on that
website and then made a few sales, which was insane.

129
00:10:58,344 --> 00:11:00,006
Those was like in high school.

130
00:11:00,493 --> 00:11:03,030
Do remember that feeling of getting the first sale?

131
00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:05,345
Like, can you remember how that was like?

132
00:11:05,351 --> 00:11:10,593
yeah, it was just, it felt like unreal.

133
00:11:10,873 --> 00:11:18,295
The first time it happened for real real when I started making real money was when I
launched WP Pusher, which was my deployment tool for WordPress, which was sort of my first

134
00:11:18,295 --> 00:11:23,476
real business that was, um you know, turned into my job basically.

135
00:11:23,476 --> 00:11:29,767
em And I remember launching that and it was sort of like nothing happened.

136
00:11:29,767 --> 00:11:31,098
No one bothered or anything like that.

137
00:11:31,098 --> 00:11:32,398
But then someone,

138
00:11:33,090 --> 00:11:46,125
picked it up and it ended up being, there ended up being an article written about it on
the WP Tavern website, which was like a blog with, it was like the main news website for

139
00:11:46,125 --> 00:11:47,675
WordPress at the time.

140
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:59,380
then the sales just started coming in and I woke up and it was just like, I made like
several hundred dollars, eh probably almost a thousand dollars.

141
00:11:59,380 --> 00:12:03,041
And that was like the first time it felt like real money.

142
00:12:03,063 --> 00:12:08,916
I can't remember, I was early 20s, I have been in university at the time.

143
00:12:09,263 --> 00:12:12,606
And that was just completely unreal.

144
00:12:13,537 --> 00:12:20,169
I love this concept you probably heard of it called stranger money.

145
00:12:20,169 --> 00:12:24,690
The first time you make money off of something you sell, that's not just friends and
family, right?

146
00:12:24,690 --> 00:12:26,851
People you don't know buying your product.

147
00:12:26,851 --> 00:12:29,451
That sounds exactly what happened here, right?

148
00:12:29,491 --> 00:12:32,512
Waking up, that's incredible.

149
00:12:32,512 --> 00:12:39,904
uh So I wanna move on a little bit to talk about your talk.

150
00:12:39,904 --> 00:12:49,318
Because you're of course here because you are speaking at lay of the life in a few months
And without uh giving out too many details yet.

151
00:12:49,318 --> 00:12:57,682
I love to hear a little bit about what um What you what you talk is about and so why
you're you're giving this talk?

152
00:12:58,754 --> 00:13:09,598
Yeah, so as this is news to no one, our job jobs as developers have changed quite a lot
recently.

153
00:13:09,598 --> 00:13:17,221
There's a lot of like, it's, it's almost crazy if you don't use AI to write your code
right now, right?

154
00:13:17,221 --> 00:13:19,382
Like, because everyone is doing that.

155
00:13:19,942 --> 00:13:23,183
But obviously, it's still very new.

156
00:13:23,283 --> 00:13:25,684
And not everyone is doing it yet.

157
00:13:25,684 --> 00:13:27,815
And people are doing it to different extents.

158
00:13:27,815 --> 00:13:40,878
Um, so there's, um, but there are some people like myself, I think that are turning into
power use of some of these tools and, I rely on them like a lot.

159
00:13:40,878 --> 00:13:51,831
So, and I've been really embracing is specifically cursor the AI code editor, over the
past year or so, and just gotten really, really into it.

160
00:13:51,871 --> 00:13:54,912
And, and I, and I feel like I also got pretty good at it.

161
00:13:54,912 --> 00:13:57,197
So, um, I did this talk.

162
00:13:57,197 --> 00:13:58,817
at our local meetup.

163
00:13:58,817 --> 00:14:08,837
And the first time I did it, it didn't go so well, but it was also just, there's a few
like technical things that went wrong, both with the talk, but then also just me not

164
00:14:08,837 --> 00:14:12,297
realizing how long my speaking slot was and stuff like that.

165
00:14:12,537 --> 00:14:19,037
But then I did it again a month later at the meetup in a different city here in Denmark.

166
00:14:19,137 --> 00:14:20,917
And it was really well received.

167
00:14:20,917 --> 00:14:24,897
I think people really took some stuff away from it.

168
00:14:24,897 --> 00:14:25,751
So,

169
00:14:25,751 --> 00:14:36,147
that got me really excited and I submitted it to a couple conferences and got accepted to
speak at Laravel Live in Copenhagen, which was really exciting.

170
00:14:36,147 --> 00:14:43,931
the talk is basically what I've learned about using cursor as my main way to write code in
the past year.

171
00:14:44,032 --> 00:14:47,424
And it sort of got em three parts.

172
00:14:47,424 --> 00:14:53,387
The first part is me em just explaining sort of what cursor is and giving some...

173
00:14:53,645 --> 00:15:02,733
explaining some of the important things relating to LLMs, how they work and why that's
important in the context of using cursor.

174
00:15:03,274 --> 00:15:17,747
And then the second part is a live coding part, which is the fun part of the talk where em
I sort of pretend like I've been asked to uh take over and maintain this uh existing

175
00:15:17,747 --> 00:15:18,887
Laravel app

176
00:15:19,029 --> 00:15:25,794
And I'm using Cursor to quickly get up to speed and start to be productive on that level
app.

177
00:15:25,894 --> 00:15:38,043
And then the third part is sort of me reflecting on whether we're all gonna be out of a
job in the future or if there's actually a future for us developers.

178
00:15:40,305 --> 00:15:41,266
Yeah.

179
00:15:41,907 --> 00:15:43,988
So it's pretty packed talk.

180
00:15:44,211 --> 00:15:44,771
yeah.

181
00:15:44,771 --> 00:15:55,534
So one thing is live coding on stage, is, know, difficult enough, but, you know, LLMs are
famously non-deterministic, right?

182
00:15:55,534 --> 00:16:04,776
So just because it worked exactly in one exact way when you're practicing to talk at home,
it doesn't mean that it's going to output the exact same on stage, right?

183
00:16:04,776 --> 00:16:06,717
So that sounds fun.

184
00:16:08,106 --> 00:16:18,398
Yeah, and I think, so I've done it a few times now, so I've sort of started to get a
better sense for what some of the things that can possibly happen are.

185
00:16:19,359 --> 00:16:24,680
And you're totally right, they're non-deterministic, so you never really know what you
get.

186
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,921
But that's also part of what I wanna show.

187
00:16:30,201 --> 00:16:33,502
part of the talk is me showing how I do this.

188
00:16:33,502 --> 00:16:36,583
And when I do this normally, I also don't know what's gonna come out of it.

189
00:16:36,583 --> 00:16:38,244
And then I have to sort of,

190
00:16:38,244 --> 00:16:41,629
react to whatever comes out of the LLM.

191
00:16:41,629 --> 00:16:47,780
em And there are ways to get it more consistent in terms of what it's outputting.

192
00:16:47,780 --> 00:16:52,147
em And I'm showing some of those ways as well.

193
00:16:53,760 --> 00:17:00,808
Cool, yeah, I was fortunate enough to see your second iteration of this talk, the good
one.

194
00:17:00,808 --> 00:17:10,999
um No, I really enjoyed the talk and also really enjoyed how you're not just talking about
prompting, it's like zooming out and talking a little bit more high level about the whole

195
00:17:10,999 --> 00:17:12,019
experience.

196
00:17:12,052 --> 00:17:23,426
I'm really excited to see what you're cooking up for for Level Live for this talk as well
and see if the LM gods are gonna be with us uh during the talk, which I'm sure they are.

197
00:17:23,593 --> 00:17:27,169
Yeah, they have to be nice in the week prior.

198
00:17:28,715 --> 00:17:34,426
Exactly, and hopefully we don't get a bunch of model updates and all kinds of stuff a few
days before the conference.

199
00:17:34,426 --> 00:17:37,862
eh think that's what happened first time, right?

200
00:17:37,862 --> 00:17:41,438
There was a bunch of updates to both cursor and the models and...

201
00:17:41,477 --> 00:17:55,988
we were on Claude 3.5 and then I gave it, the day before I gave it the first time, it was
Claude 3.7 and then I switched to Gemini because 3.7 ended up not being really good in my

202
00:17:55,988 --> 00:18:01,732
opinion and now it's either Claude 4 or Gemini.

203
00:18:03,294 --> 00:18:05,495
We'll see what it looks like in August.

204
00:18:05,596 --> 00:18:08,638
be, have changed quite significantly.

205
00:18:09,703 --> 00:18:13,485
Yeah, you might have new models by then too, who knows.

206
00:18:13,765 --> 00:18:23,611
So kind of on that note, what's your go-to uh LLM right now for just in general day to
day, not necessarily for coding, just for coding.

207
00:18:24,203 --> 00:18:29,465
For day-to-day stuff, like my Google replacement is ChatGPT.

208
00:18:29,465 --> 00:18:32,386
em I do use Claude sometimes.

209
00:18:32,846 --> 00:18:35,827
Yeah, I like ChatGPT too.

210
00:18:35,827 --> 00:18:39,389
Sorry, I like Claude too, but I don't use it as much.

211
00:18:39,389 --> 00:18:42,090
um ChatGPT has been more sticky with me.

212
00:18:42,090 --> 00:18:46,131
em So I think I like the app a bit better as well.

213
00:18:46,131 --> 00:18:53,546
em And then, but for coding, it's em for most coding tasks,

214
00:18:53,546 --> 00:19:06,686
I use Gemini 2.5 in Cursor, but a lot of the time I'll like take a problem that's like
quite hard to crack and I'll open up ChatGPT in the browser and use 03 there to sort of

215
00:19:06,686 --> 00:19:10,026
chew on that problem for like three to five minutes or whatever.

216
00:19:10,026 --> 00:19:22,237
And then just do something else in Cursor while that's going on and then come back to it
and then sort of see what it came up with and then.

217
00:19:22,237 --> 00:19:31,090
take those ideas and then either redo it in cursor or rewrite it or just sort of explain
the solution to Gemini and have that right.

218
00:19:31,411 --> 00:19:38,311
I find 03 is really good at chewing on heart problems where it also has to like search and
do research.

219
00:19:38,463 --> 00:19:39,703
Hmm.

220
00:19:39,803 --> 00:19:44,063
So maybe I'll ask you the same question again in two months and we'll see if the answer is
the same.

221
00:19:44,063 --> 00:19:45,043
Who knows?

222
00:19:47,023 --> 00:19:51,023
So we're almost running out of time, but I just want to ask you one more question.

223
00:19:51,563 --> 00:20:02,683
I know you don't live very far from Copenhagen, so you probably go to Copenhagen quite
often, but what is one thing you want to see or experience or eat while in Copenhagen?

224
00:20:03,421 --> 00:20:03,961
Yeah.

225
00:20:03,961 --> 00:20:09,053
mean, if I go to Copenhagen fairly often, I'll say I live an hour away.

226
00:20:09,053 --> 00:20:18,207
Um, but this time like going to the conference for a couple of days and staying at a hotel
and stuff, it's quite different from my normal Copenhagen experience.

227
00:20:18,207 --> 00:20:19,958
So I'm pretty excited about that.

228
00:20:21,289 --> 00:20:26,430
I, one of my favorite things to just do in Copenhagen is just walk around the city.

229
00:20:26,531 --> 00:20:32,316
It's extremely walkable and, you can like walk all the way across Copenhagen.

230
00:20:32,316 --> 00:20:37,850
in a few hours, which is really nice because the different parts of the city is very
different.

231
00:20:37,910 --> 00:20:39,622
And you can also walk along the water.

232
00:20:39,622 --> 00:20:48,098
There's a lot of water, em both like lakes and em the sea is right there when you're in
the city.

233
00:20:48,098 --> 00:20:50,049
And I really enjoy that.

234
00:20:50,049 --> 00:20:55,663
So that's a big part of it for me is just walking around the city, especially if I'm in a
conference.

235
00:20:56,324 --> 00:20:57,745
I do need

236
00:20:58,350 --> 00:21:04,932
a break once in a while from people and it can be quite intense for me to be at a
conference setting for a few days.

237
00:21:04,932 --> 00:21:06,812
So it's really nice to do that.

238
00:21:06,992 --> 00:21:16,814
Food wise is the other thing that I'm sort of always like when I go to Copenhagen, I live
in a small town where there's not almost no options in terms of food.

239
00:21:16,974 --> 00:21:25,006
So food wise, that's the other treat of going to Copenhagen is like the opportunity to
have more interesting food.

240
00:21:25,006 --> 00:21:26,056
Yeah.

241
00:21:28,007 --> 00:21:35,316
I don't know specifically what I'm gonna go for, but one of my favorite restaurants in
Copenhagen is an Ethiopian restaurant.

242
00:21:35,316 --> 00:21:38,021
That's uh really, really amazing.

243
00:21:38,750 --> 00:21:41,106
That's where you eat with bread, with your fingers, right?

244
00:21:41,106 --> 00:21:42,240
With your hands.

245
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:43,279
That's it, you know.

246
00:21:43,279 --> 00:21:52,810
enormous pancakes, sourdough pancakes, you just have a bunch of curries and little sides
and you just eat them with the bread.

247
00:21:52,810 --> 00:21:53,881
It's amazing.

248
00:21:54,007 --> 00:21:55,432
You have to take me.

249
00:21:56,302 --> 00:21:57,052
I'm sold.

250
00:21:57,052 --> 00:21:58,115
take you.

251
00:21:59,386 --> 00:22:06,809
And I just realized the venue where we have the conference, uh as you know, you were there
last year too, of course.

252
00:22:06,809 --> 00:22:12,491
uh We have the canals right next door and all the food stalls.

253
00:22:12,491 --> 00:22:17,973
So you kind of got two for two right outside the door, is uh really nice.

254
00:22:20,794 --> 00:22:21,455
Yeah.

255
00:22:21,455 --> 00:22:28,477
Well, thank you so much for taking your time to uh talk to me today and talk a little bit
about your experience and your talk

256
00:22:28,477 --> 00:22:29,774
It was so nice talking to you.

257
00:22:30,130 --> 00:22:31,832
Of course, yeah, I'm excited.

258
00:22:32,810 --> 00:22:35,832
That was Peter Suhm Want to hear more from Peter?

259
00:22:35,832 --> 00:22:42,357
He'll be presenting at Laravel Live Denmark this August on August 21st and 22nd in
Copenhagen.

260
00:22:42,357 --> 00:22:44,799
Grab your tickets now at laravellive.dk