WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.218 --> 00:00:02.918 MSPs and accounting firms have a lot of shared DNA. 00:00:02.968 --> 00:00:07.778 My guest today thinks that accounting is paving the way for MSPs and AI adoption. 00:00:08.218 --> 00:00:12.628 Peter McCarrell has spent over 30 years in public accounting and has been 00:00:12.638 --> 00:00:17.328 helping other firms' owners rethink how they price and deliver their work 00:00:17.338 --> 00:00:19.428 as AI takes over the routine stuff. 00:00:19.848 --> 00:00:23.238 His view is that accounting is the canary in the coal mine for professional 00:00:23.238 --> 00:00:25.388 services with MSPs next in line. 00:00:25.898 --> 00:00:28.918 Today, we're looking at what's already happening in his industry 00:00:28.958 --> 00:00:32.468 and what MSP owners can learn from it before it reaches them. 00:00:32.548 --> 00:00:34.278 Peter, welcome to the Evolved Radio podcast. 00:00:35.064 --> 00:00:35.754 Thank you so much. 00:00:35.754 --> 00:00:36.446 It's good to be here 00:00:37.366 --> 00:00:37.646 Excellent. 00:00:37.856 --> 00:00:44.156 So, uh, I like the description that you kind of noted for me here is that, uh, 00:00:44.746 --> 00:00:48.916 accountants are the canary in the coal mine for pro- professional services. 00:00:48.916 --> 00:00:51.306 I think this is a really apt description of this. 00:00:51.726 --> 00:00:56.146 Do you wanna give us a reading from the future on the impacts of AI 00:00:56.146 --> 00:00:57.846 on prefer- professional services? 00:00:58.329 --> 00:00:58.669 Yeah. 00:00:58.674 --> 00:01:02.672 So I wanna nuance this, um, in a particular way. 00:01:02.728 --> 00:01:09.967 Uh, think MSP providers are probably ahead of accountants when it comes to AI. 00:01:10.114 --> 00:01:11.867 You guys are the IT specialists. 00:01:11.867 --> 00:01:14.235 You've been all over this for, you know, much earlier. 00:01:14.496 --> 00:01:16.494 Most accountants are still slow to change. 00:01:16.889 --> 00:01:20.370 Uh, the area where I think we might be the canary in the coal mine is 00:01:20.372 --> 00:01:22.536 on the price compression front. 00:01:23.461 --> 00:01:25.885 And I think, you know, lawyers haven't felt this yet. 00:01:25.943 --> 00:01:28.044 In fact, I was just working with a couple lawyers yesterday. 00:01:28.389 --> 00:01:31.731 Um, you know, they aren't seeing the kinds of things that accountants are 00:01:31.732 --> 00:01:36.995 now starting to see, um, that are, uh, is putting pressure on pricing. 00:01:37.408 --> 00:01:42.864 Um, and I suspect that, you know, MSPs, you know, are better at using 00:01:42.864 --> 00:01:46.608 the technology and deploying the technology, but the compression 00:01:46.621 --> 00:01:48.014 hasn't quite hit them yet. 00:01:48.724 --> 00:01:48.971 That's 00:01:49.024 --> 00:01:50.814 I think you'd be surprised actually. 00:01:50.864 --> 00:01:54.544 I've been ranting about this in the industry, uh, for a while now. 00:01:54.554 --> 00:01:58.614 Not to say that you, that you guys are necessarily ahead of them on 00:01:58.614 --> 00:02:04.824 implementation per se, but, uh, I, I think the industry is strangely lacking 00:02:04.874 --> 00:02:09.344 in the sort of ROI cases for AI. 00:02:09.344 --> 00:02:13.854 There's a lot of use cases, I think, internally in very specific cases, but, 00:02:14.204 --> 00:02:19.724 uh, I think, um, the, the utilization of AI certainly for their customers 00:02:19.724 --> 00:02:21.614 has, has been strangely lagging. 00:02:22.046 --> 00:02:22.419 Ok 00:02:22.454 --> 00:02:25.454 so that, that's been a, a fascination of mine as well. 00:02:25.744 --> 00:02:31.204 Um, you know, I, I suppose, I think people could maybe assume where some of 00:02:31.204 --> 00:02:32.884 this stuff shows up for you guys, right? 00:02:32.914 --> 00:02:38.954 Like, uh, reconciliation, um, you know, some of the bookkeeping basics, like maybe 00:02:38.954 --> 00:02:44.984 extrapolate, uh, a bit out on what does AI play a role in for modern accounting and 00:02:44.984 --> 00:02:47.044 how is that creating price compression? 00:02:47.525 --> 00:02:47.823 Yeah. 00:02:48.713 --> 00:02:50.972 let's talk about the technicalities first. 00:02:50.972 --> 00:02:53.904 Like where is AI actually changing the work we do? 00:02:54.381 --> 00:02:57.589 And I would say that up until now, it hasn't. 00:02:58.532 --> 00:03:01.931 We… One of the differences between accountants and, and, you know, 00:03:02.030 --> 00:03:06.942 some other knowledge workers is that we work very much inside tools. 00:03:08.036 --> 00:03:10.806 We don't just use the tools, the tools are the work. 00:03:11.136 --> 00:03:13.684 QuickBooks, Xero, you know, the accounting platforms. 00:03:14.059 --> 00:03:21.006 And they have been, um, let's say, on a shaky start in terms of implementing AI. 00:03:21.366 --> 00:03:26.388 And w- yeah, it's really only been the last few months where we've started to see 00:03:26.388 --> 00:03:33.027 these tools really start to out the kinks of how does AI work inside the product. 00:03:34.104 --> 00:03:39.325 We're seeing a lot around the edges of the product in terms of other tools that 00:03:39.326 --> 00:03:45.218 we might use, tax, data gathering tools, um, you know, uh, other automation tools 00:03:45.220 --> 00:03:46.923 that plug into the accounting systems. 00:03:47.137 --> 00:03:51.924 They have actually been much more, more aggressive in, in implementing AI. 00:03:51.952 --> 00:03:55.266 But not every accountant is going to pay extra for an outside 00:03:55.273 --> 00:03:56.634 tool to do some of that work. 00:03:57.486 --> 00:04:01.131 so, so I would say this, this is where I think, you know, the accounting industry 00:04:01.166 --> 00:04:06.766 as a whole is still a little behind because we are very reliant on a very 00:04:06.766 --> 00:04:12.525 small number of vendors work out what they want to do with AI before we can get 00:04:12.525 --> 00:04:17.913 our hands on it in the, in the, the, the day-to-day, you know, most of what we do, 00:04:17.954 --> 00:04:19.467 you know, is bookkeeping or accounting. 00:04:19.824 --> 00:04:22.541 Now, that's not to say there's not lots of opportunity for AI. 00:04:22.547 --> 00:04:26.639 I call… I have this phrase called AI and the gaps, the gaps between these 00:04:26.643 --> 00:04:31.052 systems and, and now that's expanding with MCPs and things like that, where 00:04:31.053 --> 00:04:33.793 now you can now automate between systems. 00:04:34.434 --> 00:04:34.786 Okay? 00:04:34.788 --> 00:04:36.587 So that's all starting to develop. 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:40.466 But, you know, just in terms of our core use, today, we're just starting 00:04:40.467 --> 00:04:45.181 to s- to scratch the surface of how does AI get involved in the accounting 00:04:45.181 --> 00:04:49.272 process, and the first place that it gets involved within the tools is in 00:04:49.273 --> 00:04:52.170 that coding and reconciliation process. 00:04:53.193 --> 00:04:55.752 Now, where will we be 12 months from now? 00:04:56.547 --> 00:05:00.873 I'm very convinced that we will be in a position where, if we've enabled 00:05:00.875 --> 00:05:07.828 it, AI sh- will be able to code at least 80% of your transactions inside 00:05:07.828 --> 00:05:12.509 your accounting ledgers, and do so with an adequate, maybe not ideal, 00:05:12.509 --> 00:05:15.290 but an adequate level of accuracy. 00:05:15.855 --> 00:05:20.230 Still going to need someone to monitor it, check it, and do the 00:05:20.235 --> 00:05:21.611 things that it can't work out. 00:05:21.625 --> 00:05:22.726 There'll still be lots of that. 00:05:23.148 --> 00:05:28.396 Uh, but it's going to take a lot of the transactional work down and, and 00:05:28.406 --> 00:05:32.448 my, my forecast is that bookkeepers are going to become quality control 00:05:32.449 --> 00:05:35.255 managers, not transaction processors 00:05:37.010 --> 00:05:40.500 I think there's a, a just a very strong parallel between 00:05:40.500 --> 00:05:42.030 this and a help desk, right? 00:05:42.060 --> 00:05:42.440 So, 00:05:43.100 --> 00:05:46.930 triage process, uh, all of these things will be automated, but there's 00:05:46.930 --> 00:05:48.810 still a very heavy QA process. 00:05:49.100 --> 00:05:55.620 I'm curious, like, uh, because accounting maybe feels higher risk 00:05:55.670 --> 00:05:58.910 and, you know, granted the stuff that you're doing is not, uh, it's 00:05:58.930 --> 00:06:02.530 not like it will get dramatically missed or cause massive issues. 00:06:02.790 --> 00:06:05.670 It could if it's really wrong a lot of the time, but I don't 00:06:05.670 --> 00:06:06.980 suspect that's gonna be the case. 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:10.300 Like, the LLMs are very good now, and I think they'll be quite capable of this. 00:06:10.690 --> 00:06:14.760 But, uh, I think psychologically people may be a little more wary 00:06:14.770 --> 00:06:18.830 about AI playing with their books than they are managing a support ticket. 00:06:19.070 --> 00:06:23.420 Do you think there's gonna be internal resistance to this in the industry or 00:06:23.450 --> 00:06:27.340 a resistance from people saying like, "Oh, no, no, no, I don't want you having 00:06:27.390 --> 00:06:29.480 AI playing with my, my accounting"? 00:06:30.939 --> 00:06:33.139 Uh, yes, there will be resistance. 00:06:33.171 --> 00:06:37.806 I think the resistance, funnily enough, is actually stronger inside the industry 00:06:37.808 --> 00:06:39.195 than it will be from our clients. 00:06:39.816 --> 00:06:44.765 Um, it's stronger for inside the industry because let's be honest, the 00:06:44.765 --> 00:06:47.117 accounting industry is an aging industry. 00:06:47.213 --> 00:06:50.451 You know, people like me, you know, gray hair, um, who've been 00:06:50.451 --> 00:06:54.284 in this industry for 40 years, uh, you know, are slow to change. 00:06:54.372 --> 00:06:58.173 Now, I, I've met plenty of accountants older than me who are gung ho on 00:06:58.173 --> 00:07:01.471 this stuff, so this… I'm not trying to, to stereotype anybody here. 00:07:01.754 --> 00:07:07.116 But as a whole, we tend to be… We're conservative, we don't change fast, 00:07:07.254 --> 00:07:09.389 and we don't adopt technology fast. 00:07:09.861 --> 00:07:14.329 You know, the, the whole conversation around cloud technology. 00:07:15.149 --> 00:07:21.040 I mean, it took 10 years for cloud adoption to have become normal, it's 00:07:21.107 --> 00:07:25.635 only because, you know, companies like Intuit finally said, "You know what? 00:07:25.635 --> 00:07:29.586 We're gonna stop supporting QuickBooks Desktop." They… The reason they 00:07:29.587 --> 00:07:33.911 held on so long is because so many accountants did not want to move. 00:07:34.650 --> 00:07:38.022 That tells you something about the way our, our, our industry works. 00:07:38.064 --> 00:07:38.406 We are 00:07:38.582 --> 00:07:39.052 Yeah, even, 00:07:39.352 --> 00:07:39.928 adopters 00:07:40.632 --> 00:07:43.372 e- even in our industry, we saw a lot of this, that there was 00:07:43.372 --> 00:07:47.222 accountants that refused to use newer versions, and like certain clients, 00:07:47.222 --> 00:07:48.982 they would use a specific version. 00:07:49.407 --> 00:07:49.833 Yes. 00:07:49.852 --> 00:07:51.102 the, the really old guard. 00:07:51.102 --> 00:07:53.502 Yeah, so the, the, the change does not come quickly 00:07:53.963 --> 00:07:54.448 Absolutely. 00:07:54.484 --> 00:07:57.349 And look, to be honest here, part of it is, you know, accountants have 00:07:57.350 --> 00:08:02.540 a, have a reputation, which is well earned, for being cheap buggers, okay? 00:08:02.598 --> 00:08:04.042 And we want to save money on everything we do. 00:08:04.043 --> 00:08:06.296 Well, here's the secret that you, you guys might not know. 00:08:06.342 --> 00:08:09.740 QuickBooks Desktop, you didn't have to pay for every single license. 00:08:10.232 --> 00:08:12.107 You were able to run a number of clients. 00:08:12.107 --> 00:08:16.034 You paid for the software, and you could create, in some cases, 00:08:16.034 --> 00:08:17.237 as many files as you wanted. 00:08:17.482 --> 00:08:19.212 In later years, they started to limit that. 00:08:19.575 --> 00:08:23.327 Um, of course, the moment you move to cloud, every client pays. 00:08:24.339 --> 00:08:25.509 Nothing comes for free. 00:08:26.261 --> 00:08:29.305 Well, if you're, if you're a cheap accountant and you, and you want to 00:08:29.308 --> 00:08:34.032 still run, you know, 50 clients for the price of five, uh, what are you gonna do? 00:08:34.040 --> 00:08:37.168 You're not gonna move to the cloud, you know? 00:08:37.209 --> 00:08:41.637 And it, it finally took 10, 10 years, 10 plus years for the, for 00:08:41.666 --> 00:08:45.075 the, the industry to say, "Yeah, I think those days are over. We, we, 00:08:45.127 --> 00:08:47.486 we have to change the model." Okay? 00:08:47.488 --> 00:08:50.537 Now, AI's gonna move faster than that, way faster than that. 00:08:50.883 --> 00:08:54.234 Um, but there are still gonna be accountants that don't 00:08:54.234 --> 00:08:55.267 want to make the change. 00:08:55.267 --> 00:08:58.436 And I remember my dad, I started… My first accounting job was with 00:08:58.436 --> 00:09:02.303 my dad's firm back in New Zealand and, you know, he sold his practice. 00:09:02.334 --> 00:09:06.114 They asked him to stay on to help with client transition and things like that. 00:09:06.466 --> 00:09:10.359 Uh, but the new owners, they were younger, they wanted new software technologies, 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:14.920 and my dad wasn't a technophobe at all, but, you know, the pace of change 00:09:14.920 --> 00:09:19.511 was just too high and he actually decided to step out earlier than his 00:09:19.512 --> 00:09:22.388 contract allowed, you know, him to. 00:09:22.402 --> 00:09:25.847 He had the right to do it, but they wanted him to stay on for two years, and 00:09:25.850 --> 00:09:31.021 he ended up saying, "I just can't handle all this change. I think my clients are 00:09:31.023 --> 00:09:36.189 happy with the transition. I'm gonna step out now." We saw this happen in COVID. 00:09:36.338 --> 00:09:39.505 A lot of accountants shut their doors and never came back. 00:09:40.818 --> 00:09:44.863 And AI is gonna be a bit of a trigger here as more and more accountants 00:09:44.872 --> 00:09:48.428 get to the point of saying, "I can't keep up, and I don't want to keep up. 00:09:48.623 --> 00:09:52.437 I don't want to learn a new technology at this stage of my career." 00:09:54.422 --> 00:09:56.472 So I guess that creates an opportunity. 00:09:56.612 --> 00:10:00.962 Again, like there's so many parallels, uh, with the IT industry, like the, you know, 00:10:01.022 --> 00:10:07.432 aging population, bit of a, an opportunity being created for, uh, for new businesses. 00:10:07.752 --> 00:10:10.652 And we're seeing a bit of a rise, sort of the early edge, I 00:10:10.652 --> 00:10:16.422 think, in, in the MSP industry of like a native AI-based, uh, MSP. 00:10:16.732 --> 00:10:20.592 Um, you know, the, like I, like I said, I've joked about the MSP industry 00:10:20.752 --> 00:10:25.872 being, you know, unusually slow to adopt and, and, uh, get on top of this, 00:10:25.902 --> 00:10:29.492 this trend, but there are the people that are just, you know, they, they're 00:10:29.492 --> 00:10:33.282 starting a new MSP because they see the opportunity of being able to leverage 00:10:33.282 --> 00:10:38.492 these things or, uh, consulting in a n- in a more of an AI native way. 00:10:38.732 --> 00:10:42.152 I suppose that's sort of a similar parallel for your guys' industry 00:10:42.152 --> 00:10:46.582 that, uh, you know, this, it's a bit of a sea change, I suppose, that new 00:10:46.772 --> 00:10:49.862 businesses will start as a result and kind of run up the middle, right? 00:10:50.362 --> 00:10:50.791 Absolutely. 00:10:50.801 --> 00:10:53.475 Well, that leads me to the, uh, the four pricing changes. 00:10:53.502 --> 00:10:54.760 Now, you alluded to this earlier. 00:10:55.062 --> 00:10:56.931 Um, the four, I call it the squeeze. 00:10:57.113 --> 00:11:00.846 Um, the first one might not apply to MSPs. 00:11:00.859 --> 00:11:04.721 So the first pricing squeeze is that the, uh, the, the tools that we use day-to-day, 00:11:04.734 --> 00:11:10.440 the QuickBooks, the Xeros, the Sages, um, they are building in AI tools that our 00:11:10.441 --> 00:11:15.348 clients can now use, that the consumer or the business owner can now use. 00:11:15.612 --> 00:11:19.892 So all the things that we ask for for our efficiency have c- are 00:11:19.895 --> 00:11:23.231 coming, have come, and they're also being offered to the business owner. 00:11:23.988 --> 00:11:27.963 And the logical question here is, well, if I, if I'm getting this as 00:11:27.970 --> 00:11:32.549 part of my software subscription, which most accountants pass that charge 00:11:32.751 --> 00:11:36.485 directly on to their clients, uh, or the client pays directly, if I'm 00:11:36.485 --> 00:11:40.005 getting that as part of my software subscription, what am I paying you for? 00:11:41.103 --> 00:11:45.292 So that's one area of, of the squeeze, is that the, the tools that make 00:11:45.294 --> 00:11:49.775 us efficient are now accessible by our clients, and they question the 00:11:49.776 --> 00:11:51.216 value of what they're paying for. 00:11:51.864 --> 00:11:58.037 next part of the squeeze i- are the new, uh, tools that are coming in AI native. 00:11:58.546 --> 00:12:01.984 So in, in the, uh, accounting world, we've got QuickBooks, Xero, and Sage. 00:12:01.984 --> 00:12:05.823 They are the three big, uh, native products or, uh, legacy products. 00:12:05.824 --> 00:12:07.154 I call them legacy products now. 00:12:07.557 --> 00:12:11.918 Um, not applying to us here in Canada, but in the US, which is most of your 00:12:11.918 --> 00:12:17.847 audience, uh, Digits, Kick, Puzzle are now the up-and-coming software products. 00:12:17.855 --> 00:12:18.477 Now, you may have never 00:12:18.640 --> 00:12:19.690 I don't think I've ever heard of those 00:12:20.015 --> 00:12:24.966 but they are new AI native ledgers, and they're doing really great things. 00:12:25.154 --> 00:12:30.410 They're going well beyond just auto-coding a transaction or 00:12:30.410 --> 00:12:31.730 reconciling the bank account. 00:12:31.764 --> 00:12:36.684 They're actually now putting tools in that deal with reconciling clearing accounts 00:12:36.708 --> 00:12:40.764 and, you know, all the other stuff that an accountant has to do that is beyond basic 00:12:40.774 --> 00:12:44.434 coding, which of course most business owners forget about because to them, once 00:12:44.434 --> 00:12:47.966 you've coded something, it's finished, and the accountant knows that that's not true. 00:12:47.985 --> 00:12:50.181 There's a lot more work that happens downstream from that. 00:12:50.527 --> 00:12:53.931 But these AI native tools are building from the ground up. 00:12:54.277 --> 00:12:56.696 They have no technology debt. 00:12:57.833 --> 00:13:02.358 They can move incredibly fast because they're building in 00:13:02.359 --> 00:13:05.207 an agentic way an agentic age. 00:13:06.129 --> 00:13:10.284 Whereas these legacy platforms, they, they can't build in an agentic way. 00:13:10.300 --> 00:13:11.928 Their, their technology debt is too high. 00:13:11.932 --> 00:13:16.412 They are, they are trying to convert their code and their systems into 00:13:16.413 --> 00:13:20.042 something that will work like that, but these products are massive. 00:13:20.365 --> 00:13:21.467 That, that takes time. 00:13:21.923 --> 00:13:25.673 So that's the second compression, is that there are these new offerings coming 00:13:25.674 --> 00:13:31.022 out and, you know, Digits, for example, will offer to not just be your ledger, 00:13:31.198 --> 00:13:34.372 but close your books 60 bucks a month. 00:13:35.826 --> 00:13:37.529 Cheaper than QuickBooks will, will do it 00:13:41.077 --> 00:13:44.547 And so you have to ask that, is, is that a competitive threat to an accountant? 00:13:46.315 --> 00:13:46.950 Absolutely. 00:13:47.732 --> 00:13:52.145 People are considering changing services or saving money, and they hear the story 00:13:52.147 --> 00:13:55.849 about this new platform that'll do it for free or do it for a lower cost. 00:13:55.868 --> 00:13:59.384 They go, "Yeah, I'll give that a try." Usually they end up coming 00:13:59.384 --> 00:14:02.196 back, you know, because it's not all they thought it was gonna be. 00:14:02.570 --> 00:14:04.076 They still need the tax work done. 00:14:04.096 --> 00:14:07.095 These tools won't do the tax work necessarily, at least not yet. 00:14:07.417 --> 00:14:11.225 Um, you know, so there's still sometimes there's room for an accountant, but, 00:14:11.247 --> 00:14:12.978 you know, it changes the relationship. 00:14:13.374 --> 00:14:17.433 The, the, the third pricing squeeze is perception. 00:14:18.091 --> 00:14:20.435 This is going to affect MSPs. 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:22.854 Um, in fact, every knowledge worker. 00:14:23.287 --> 00:14:27.956 The perce- And, and one of the things I say is that perception is reality. 00:14:29.296 --> 00:14:34.298 People make decisions based on, opinion, on feelings and perception 00:14:34.331 --> 00:14:35.922 more than they do on facts. 00:14:36.815 --> 00:14:41.766 And you could argue with them from a rational basis as to why their opinion is 00:14:41.766 --> 00:14:45.739 wrong, they will still make their decision based on their opinion and perception. 00:14:47.147 --> 00:14:47.505 Okay? 00:14:47.619 --> 00:14:52.007 It's, it's very hard to convince somebody using logic when they've made 00:14:52.013 --> 00:14:54.030 up their mind using emotional perception. 00:14:55.014 --> 00:14:56.673 Just a basic psychological principle. 00:14:56.953 --> 00:15:00.353 So what's happening in the whole industry, uh, and, and, uh, is that 00:15:00.671 --> 00:15:05.350 people perceive that the cost to do these things is coming down. 00:15:07.258 --> 00:15:08.935 Well, it's now cheaper because of AI. 00:15:09.531 --> 00:15:11.228 What do you mean you want to put my price up? 00:15:13.507 --> 00:15:13.857 Okay? 00:15:13.903 --> 00:15:16.870 I had this conversation yesterday with a client. 00:15:17.496 --> 00:15:21.258 Um, you know, their perception is that all the stuff can now be done 00:15:21.258 --> 00:15:22.808 on a $20 a month subscription. 00:15:24.071 --> 00:15:29.485 Now, you and I know that that's not true, not entirely, but it's partially true. 00:15:30.458 --> 00:15:32.452 stuff could be done on a $20 a month subscription. 00:15:33.311 --> 00:15:33.694 Okay? 00:15:33.826 --> 00:15:37.750 And so the perception in the marketplace is that's what I need 00:15:40.197 --> 00:15:42.731 And so when my accountant or my bookkeeper says, "Yeah, we wanna do your 00:15:42.732 --> 00:15:47.021 work for $1,000 a month or, or $5,000 a year," we go, "Hang on a second. 00:15:47.033 --> 00:15:51.423 That doesn't translate to my $20 a month subscription." And of course, 00:15:51.424 --> 00:15:53.612 it's not just the $20 a month, that's, that, that's, that's $20 00:15:53.615 --> 00:15:56.574 a month that covers not just what you do, but everything else I do. 00:15:57.580 --> 00:15:57.839 You know? 00:15:57.839 --> 00:16:01.810 And even if that was $200 a month, that perce- that perception gap 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:04.091 is causing price compression. 00:16:04.773 --> 00:16:07.820 There's a classic story in the accounting industry. 00:16:07.821 --> 00:16:12.343 I think it was KPMG and EY, I forget which way around the, the, the words go. 00:16:12.669 --> 00:16:17.082 But, uh, K- uh, E- Ernst & Young, one of the big accounting firms, 00:16:17.136 --> 00:16:19.180 uh, the accounting firms have… 00:16:19.227 --> 00:16:23.671 All the big firms, they have a global practice, a global head office, 00:16:23.994 --> 00:16:27.588 and these global head offices get audited by one of the other big firms. 00:16:28.479 --> 00:16:28.723 Okay? 00:16:28.723 --> 00:16:32.149 So we're not talking about the US national practice or a local office, we're talking 00:16:32.149 --> 00:16:33.905 about the, the international head office. 00:16:34.204 --> 00:16:37.046 And so they are audited by KPMG. 00:16:37.982 --> 00:16:42.774 And so they went to KPMG and they said, "Uh, AI should be making the audit more 00:16:42.774 --> 00:16:46.513 efficient. We demand a price cut." Okay? 00:16:46.570 --> 00:16:48.763 This is inside the accounting industry. 00:16:49.501 --> 00:16:49.889 Okay? 00:16:50.415 --> 00:16:54.981 KPMG said, "Well, but we're not actually using AI, so we haven't got 00:16:54.987 --> 00:16:58.956 the efficiencies you're talking about. Um, you're really paying for the human 00:16:58.956 --> 00:17:01.902 expertise and the judgment and all this," yeah, all this kind of stuff, 00:17:01.902 --> 00:17:03.757 and they used all the rational logic. 00:17:05.216 --> 00:17:10.879 And EY said, "We don't care. Cut your price or we'll find a replacement." And 00:17:10.881 --> 00:17:14.206 KPMG ate a 14% price cut for nothing 00:17:16.384 --> 00:17:17.104 Just because 00:17:17.473 --> 00:17:17.764 Just 00:17:18.064 --> 00:17:19.404 the… Hmm 00:17:19.809 --> 00:17:21.869 Tired of fighting the MSP fires alone? 00:17:22.049 --> 00:17:24.969 The Ops Leader Pro group connects service delivery professionals who 00:17:25.009 --> 00:17:26.609 understand your daily challenges. 00:17:26.869 --> 00:17:30.529 From KPIs and workflows to career planning and team management, Ops 00:17:30.529 --> 00:17:32.399 Leader Pro has systems for you to use. 00:17:32.829 --> 00:17:37.029 Join operations leaders from successful MSPs who are sharing real solutions for 00:17:37.029 --> 00:17:41.209 managing client expectations, optimizing service delivery, and making your service 00:17:41.209 --> 00:17:43.549 delivery team as effective as possible. 00:17:43.879 --> 00:17:47.529 Ops Leader Pro, 'cause your service desk deserves more than just survival mode. 00:17:47.899 --> 00:17:50.159 Visit opsleader.co. 00:17:50.199 --> 00:17:55.379 That's O-P-S leader.co to apply to join the public community. 00:17:55.445 --> 00:17:55.837 Okay? 00:17:56.243 --> 00:17:59.378 So this is gonna-- this is happening, um, in the accounting space. 00:17:59.818 --> 00:18:04.261 People are starting to push back on price rises because their perception 00:18:04.298 --> 00:18:07.064 is this stuff is now free or cheap. 00:18:07.848 --> 00:18:11.409 They don't understand that the cost of implementing their technology 00:18:11.603 --> 00:18:14.371 is incredibly high, you know? 00:18:14.502 --> 00:18:16.773 And, and it's not a $20 a month subscription. 00:18:16.784 --> 00:18:21.137 In fact, I, I estimate that an average accounting firm will need to spend between 00:18:21.145 --> 00:18:23.988 $500 and $1,000 per month per employee 00:18:26.091 --> 00:18:28.265 Just on AI and AI-related tools. 00:18:29.695 --> 00:18:30.021 Okay? 00:18:30.113 --> 00:18:33.224 Now, is that still cheaper than… Is that gonna give them more efficiency? 00:18:33.226 --> 00:18:35.362 Yes, it will, but it's not free. 00:18:35.707 --> 00:18:38.812 And per- and the perception in the world is this is a marginal 00:18:38.823 --> 00:18:40.830 free benefit, is not true. 00:18:42.070 --> 00:18:44.880 And, and an accountant couldn't survive on a $20 a month subscription, 00:18:45.494 --> 00:18:46.898 not if they're really using it. 00:18:47.239 --> 00:18:48.538 So, so this is the challenge. 00:18:48.538 --> 00:18:49.838 That's price compression number three. 00:18:49.877 --> 00:18:51.973 And price compression number four, you alluded to this a 00:18:51.975 --> 00:18:53.206 s- a, a couple of minutes ago. 00:18:53.479 --> 00:18:59.595 Uh, are, are the rise of new vendors, new AI native vendors. 00:18:59.606 --> 00:19:03.201 People who say, "Not just… I'm not just writing software, but I'm gonna 00:19:03.202 --> 00:19:06.656 do everything. I'm gonna do your tax return. I'm gonna do, uh, your, your, 00:19:06.669 --> 00:19:10.019 your reporting and your advisory stuff, and I'm gonna come in and I'm gonna 00:19:10.035 --> 00:19:15.233 do it for a quarter of the cost of the last guy, and I'm gonna do it with AI." 00:19:17.551 --> 00:19:21.002 And it doesn't matter whether they can do that. 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:24.982 All that matters is that they offer to do that. 00:19:25.918 --> 00:19:27.482 And we're seeing them come up. 00:19:27.688 --> 00:19:30.526 We're seeing these new AI-native accounting firms. 00:19:30.526 --> 00:19:34.555 You alluded to AI-native MSP providers, not just software, but 00:19:34.563 --> 00:19:38.546 providers, and they're automating the heck out of everything. 00:19:40.069 --> 00:19:40.355 Okay? 00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:43.532 Now, we had a story in the accounting world, you know, the last couple of 00:19:43.532 --> 00:19:48.144 years of a, of a, a product called Bench, and it started in Silicon 00:19:48.146 --> 00:19:49.279 Valley, actually moved to Vancouver. 00:19:49.963 --> 00:19:54.796 Um, and they, they were doing or offering, you know, bookkeeping. 00:19:55.230 --> 00:19:57.827 It was supposed to be automated, but it turns out they just had a whole 00:19:57.827 --> 00:20:01.018 bunch of people in the Philippines and India for 200 bucks a month. 00:20:02.177 --> 00:20:07.291 And they received billions of dollars of investment to create 00:20:07.296 --> 00:20:12.475 this new… And of course, this is all just, just before AI, okay? 00:20:12.623 --> 00:20:16.464 Um, and so, so they, they were offering to do all, to do the super 00:20:16.469 --> 00:20:21.898 cheap, you know, high throughput, uh, bookkeeping work for a super low price. 00:20:23.635 --> 00:20:27.846 They went bankrupt and gave their clients zero days notice that they closed 00:20:29.328 --> 00:20:29.848 Ja, dat was ugly 00:20:30.314 --> 00:20:33.393 Yep, their clients woke up one day and found out that their ledger was locked 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:34.512 and they couldn't access it anymore. 00:20:36.171 --> 00:20:36.564 Okay? 00:20:36.791 --> 00:20:37.912 Terrible result. 00:20:38.351 --> 00:20:40.638 Burnt a whole bunch of goodwill in the industry. 00:20:41.532 --> 00:20:45.625 it proves the point that it doesn't matter whether they can deliver the service. 00:20:46.408 --> 00:20:51.839 only matters that they offer it, that price point now sticks, and every 00:20:51.840 --> 00:20:57.051 accountant was now competing with a $200 a month bookkeeping opportunity. 00:20:57.962 --> 00:20:58.072 Yep. 00:20:58.932 --> 00:21:01.752 So again, like the, the parallels exist here, right? 00:21:01.792 --> 00:21:07.582 That, um, like if, if you see this coming, like how are you planning 00:21:07.592 --> 00:21:11.102 your business and, you know, advising maybe other people in the industry 00:21:11.102 --> 00:21:13.492 in, in conferences and conversations? 00:21:13.992 --> 00:21:15.302 Uh, what do you do with this, right? 00:21:15.302 --> 00:21:19.332 Because I think there's some similarity in MSPs that people are 00:21:19.332 --> 00:21:23.642 like, "Well, you know, I've got, uh, I've got Claude to a- to f- solve 00:21:23.642 --> 00:21:28.532 all of my, uh, my h- my tech support questions, so what do I need you for?" 00:21:28.822 --> 00:21:29.102 Right? 00:21:29.172 --> 00:21:32.702 Um, lawyers probably see the same thing of like, "I don't need to pay 00:21:32.702 --> 00:21:37.072 you $1,000 to review this contract. Claude can do this for me," right? 00:21:37.142 --> 00:21:42.952 Um, I, I mean, again, I still struggle with professional certification and 00:21:42.962 --> 00:21:46.732 sort of the nuances of accounting as to whether or not the tools could 00:21:46.732 --> 00:21:49.552 do that all, all for you, and like you wanna make sure it's right. 00:21:49.582 --> 00:21:52.812 You know, there's always the disclaimer, "AI could be wrong," right? 00:21:52.812 --> 00:21:56.482 And you don't necessarily want that when you're doing, uh, your, your books and 00:21:56.512 --> 00:21:59.882 end up that you, you screwed something up and now you have a giant tax bill. 00:22:00.202 --> 00:22:04.612 So the, the ramifications of that feel maybe slightly more severe than 00:22:04.622 --> 00:22:06.032 some of the other circumstances. 00:22:06.162 --> 00:22:10.782 You can get yourself into legal hot water, but, you know, uh, I think like, uh, uh, 00:22:10.812 --> 00:22:14.412 the, the, the nuances of that I think are gonna be a little more detailed. 00:22:14.762 --> 00:22:20.182 So, uh, what do you do with this when your clients may sort of put up a fight 00:22:20.182 --> 00:22:24.612 about this or have a misperception about the level of effort and 00:22:24.652 --> 00:22:26.862 qualification required to do this work? 00:22:27.286 --> 00:22:27.553 Hmm. 00:22:27.967 --> 00:22:32.025 So there's a couple of things that we as accountants have always sold 00:22:32.042 --> 00:22:33.832 but never listed on an invoice. 00:22:34.928 --> 00:22:39.005 And, and some of these are, are, again, we're arguing out of logic, not 00:22:39.006 --> 00:22:43.254 arguing out of, you know, emotional reality, um, or, or perception I 00:22:43.254 --> 00:22:44.698 should say, but this is the reality. 00:22:45.016 --> 00:22:50.627 Um, and this is how we, we, we have to try and justify our fee to a certain extent. 00:22:51.159 --> 00:22:54.197 The first thing is that someone has to do quality control. 00:22:54.875 --> 00:22:58.025 Even in this new AI world, someone has to check the machine. 00:22:59.154 --> 00:23:02.643 And so it's really important that the person that does 00:23:02.643 --> 00:23:03.856 that knows what they're doing. 00:23:04.100 --> 00:23:05.457 They know what good looks like. 00:23:05.458 --> 00:23:06.851 They know what bad looks like. 00:23:07.035 --> 00:23:11.849 They smell a dead fish, because that's what happens is, is you have a, you have 00:23:11.851 --> 00:23:15.581 a sea of transactions, and buried in there are a couple of rotting corpses. 00:23:16.774 --> 00:23:20.965 You know, someone has to know how to find those, correct them, and then go, "Yep, 00:23:21.030 --> 00:23:25.248 we're happy with these results." most business owners are unable to do that. 00:23:25.580 --> 00:23:30.535 Now, the AI is getting better at self c- you know, review, but 00:23:30.537 --> 00:23:31.897 it's certainly not there today. 00:23:32.861 --> 00:23:36.304 In two, three years' time, maybe, maybe it will be, be better than a human. 00:23:36.485 --> 00:23:37.796 I totally concede that point. 00:23:38.093 --> 00:23:42.032 But for today, quality control is one thing we sell that the system 00:23:42.065 --> 00:23:43.542 isn't going to deliver for itself. 00:23:43.970 --> 00:23:49.571 The next thing that we sell is what I call the wringable neck, and that's the 00:23:49.571 --> 00:23:54.939 idea that there's a name on the file with a qualification or, or, or, or 00:23:54.940 --> 00:23:58.228 a statutory qualification insurance. 00:23:59.508 --> 00:24:03.865 If you use Claude to prepare your tax return, and you file on that 00:24:03.865 --> 00:24:07.787 basis, and it turns out that it was wrong, do you think that Anthropic 00:24:07.816 --> 00:24:09.220 is going to send you a check? 00:24:10.320 --> 00:24:11.180 Absolutely not. 00:24:11.690 --> 00:24:12.662 Absolutely not. 00:24:13.402 --> 00:24:17.601 Now, if I prepare your tax return, and it turns out to be wrong, 00:24:19.043 --> 00:24:26.115 you've got multiple avenues to pursue to recover those costs Okay? 00:24:26.148 --> 00:24:28.465 Because I'm required to carry insurance. 00:24:29.258 --> 00:24:31.158 a member of a professional organization. 00:24:31.377 --> 00:24:33.988 You've got a, you've got a procedure to go through there. 00:24:35.173 --> 00:24:37.250 Whether it works out or not is a different question, but at least 00:24:37.250 --> 00:24:38.785 there, those opportunities are there. 00:24:39.464 --> 00:24:40.631 is some accountability. 00:24:40.987 --> 00:24:41.366 Okay? 00:24:41.778 --> 00:24:43.963 And, and that, we've never had to price that before. 00:24:44.766 --> 00:24:47.759 other th- and, and, and the thing from our perspective, and this also 00:24:47.760 --> 00:24:51.480 affects MSPs, uh, and I was talking with a, with a couple of lawyers and 00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:53.674 accountants about this yesterday, is risk. 00:24:54.872 --> 00:24:57.773 In, in the accounting space, one of the, the, the trends we, we 00:24:57.773 --> 00:25:00.066 are seeing, and this is, this has always been the case, you know, 00:25:00.066 --> 00:25:01.461 we, we have a service plan for it. 00:25:01.461 --> 00:25:02.538 We call it self-service. 00:25:02.816 --> 00:25:06.154 You know, where a client does their own books in Xero or QuickBooks, and 00:25:06.155 --> 00:25:07.765 then they want us to do the tax return. 00:25:08.516 --> 00:25:11.281 we won't do a tax return based on a trial balance. 00:25:12.229 --> 00:25:12.965 We just don't do it. 00:25:13.014 --> 00:25:17.932 We decline because you, you take all the risk, you have zero ability 00:25:17.933 --> 00:25:19.592 to affect the, the, the numbers. 00:25:19.883 --> 00:25:22.487 So, you know, if you, if you called me and said, "Hey, here's 00:25:22.487 --> 00:25:23.715 my QuickBooks trial balance. 00:25:23.919 --> 00:25:28.403 Can you do a tax return?" I say, "No." I, I'm not taking that risk. 00:25:28.781 --> 00:25:32.791 So we build in review hours, and you pay for those review hours. 00:25:33.105 --> 00:25:34.301 We review your ledger. 00:25:34.302 --> 00:25:35.337 We're looking for problems. 00:25:35.338 --> 00:25:38.232 We're gonna clean it up, and if it needs more than we've budgeted for, 00:25:38.233 --> 00:25:41.825 you will pay that extra because that was your fault, not our fault. 00:25:42.323 --> 00:25:45.435 We want clean books before we start the tax process. 00:25:45.706 --> 00:25:47.730 And then we do a workup of every file. 00:25:47.732 --> 00:25:49.955 We don't just take the trial balance and, and, and the 00:25:49.955 --> 00:25:51.292 ledger and assume they're right. 00:25:51.459 --> 00:25:53.178 We now prove that they're right. 00:25:54.382 --> 00:25:58.114 That makes me more expensive than some other tax shops that will just take 00:25:58.115 --> 00:26:00.787 their trial balance and say, "Hey, that's the client's risk, not ours. 00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:02.953 We don't care if the bank account wasn't balanced. 00:26:02.953 --> 00:26:04.979 We don't care if the li- if the assets don't exist. 00:26:05.241 --> 00:26:08.760 We are just going to pump out a tax return." We won't do that. 00:26:09.196 --> 00:26:12.328 And the reason we won't do that is we are at risk either way. 00:26:13.098 --> 00:26:16.926 So if I'm gonna be at risk, I wanna get paid for the risk or at least 00:26:16.940 --> 00:26:21.109 do the work to know that I'm happy with the level of risk I'm taking. 00:26:21.922 --> 00:26:22.142 Ja. 00:26:22.562 --> 00:26:26.490 Now, if we move into a world where AI is doing the work and you're just 00:26:26.503 --> 00:26:30.191 paying a professional to file a tax return at a much cheaper rate because 00:26:30.197 --> 00:26:34.868 AI is doing all the a- the aggregation of data, paying for the risk? 00:26:36.744 --> 00:26:38.350 You're assuming it as a professional 00:26:41.060 --> 00:26:43.388 But the cl- but the, the client's no longer paying for it. 00:26:43.399 --> 00:26:48.055 They used to pay for it because they paid for the hours used to do the review, to 00:26:48.057 --> 00:26:50.207 do the cleanup, to prepare the return. 00:26:50.534 --> 00:26:52.334 Well, if those hours are compressing 00:26:54.408 --> 00:26:55.549 They're no longer paying for risk. 00:26:55.701 --> 00:26:58.389 So that's a, a big issue on the accounting space, and there's gonna be a version 00:26:58.389 --> 00:27:00.003 of that that applies to MSPs as well 00:27:00.003 --> 00:27:05.203 One of the other pieces maybe I'm curious about is, um, uh, I, I think maybe you 00:27:05.203 --> 00:27:10.693 guys f- face a similar issue around how do people scale into the industry if 00:27:10.703 --> 00:27:15.493 all sort of the remedial junior work is being done by AI agents, right? 00:27:15.493 --> 00:27:19.573 And similar, I've been thinking about this in the MSP industry, is like most 00:27:19.573 --> 00:27:24.923 people will start in sort of t- tier one triage doing password resets and 00:27:25.233 --> 00:27:27.073 supporting users with Outlook issues. 00:27:27.353 --> 00:27:30.633 And if all of that gets given to the robots, how do people scale up 00:27:30.683 --> 00:27:35.963 to that tier two level and get to, uh, the work that is more of the QA? 00:27:36.393 --> 00:27:39.933 Uh, uh, is it just sort of that you have to have some book knowledge around these 00:27:39.933 --> 00:27:45.333 things to be able to judge whether or not the AI is doing things properly, or it 00:27:45.333 --> 00:27:48.963 does it create a, create the situation where it kind of removes a rung from the 00:27:48.963 --> 00:27:53.083 ladder, and you kinda have to leap up to get to the first place in having a 00:27:53.083 --> 00:27:54.823 job in an accounting firm in the future? 00:27:55.263 --> 00:27:55.525 Yeah. 00:27:55.895 --> 00:27:58.131 So it definitely does remove a rung from the ladder. 00:27:58.179 --> 00:28:03.425 And, and there is a, a hidden problem, uh, that while AI might solve or 00:28:03.426 --> 00:28:06.762 partially solve our current talent crisis, in the accounting world we 00:28:06.764 --> 00:28:08.875 have a major talent crisis right now. 00:28:09.088 --> 00:28:11.178 We just can't get pe- good people. 00:28:12.344 --> 00:28:15.122 and I'm sure many industries have the same thing. 00:28:15.524 --> 00:28:20.317 Um, so, so there is a rung that's, that's been taken out of the ladder. 00:28:20.355 --> 00:28:22.354 And, and this is not gonna … We're not gonna see 00:28:22.354 --> 00:28:24.499 this for maybe another five years. 00:28:25.142 --> 00:28:28.592 Because in five years' time, we've stopped hiring juniors, and all of a 00:28:28.593 --> 00:28:31.367 sudden we want an experienced person or we need a, in the accounting 00:28:31.367 --> 00:28:32.625 space, we'd say we need a manager. 00:28:33.565 --> 00:28:35.759 And we normally grow our own managers. 00:28:36.764 --> 00:28:38.884 We haven't been growing our own managers for five years. 00:28:39.616 --> 00:28:41.161 So where are they gonna come from? 00:28:41.516 --> 00:28:44.684 And we, we, we will desperately need them, they won't be there. 00:28:45.604 --> 00:28:50.011 Um, so how do we deal with this, this lost rung, as you put it? 00:28:50.469 --> 00:28:53.897 Uh, there's, there's two main strategies that I've been thinking about. 00:28:53.966 --> 00:28:58.267 And, and so obviously education is a part of that, but we all know that people 00:28:58.267 --> 00:29:01.830 come out of school with a lot of book knowledge, and they're of no practical 00:29:01.830 --> 00:29:06.720 use, because they learn by doing, and that's the step we, we are taking away. 00:29:07.637 --> 00:29:11.287 the airline industry has been, has grappled with this for a very long 00:29:11.287 --> 00:29:15.739 time, and they do not let a pilot get into a live cockpit with passengers 00:29:15.740 --> 00:29:19.937 on the plane until they have done hundreds of hours of simulator training. 00:29:20.824 --> 00:29:26.789 have flown that plane full of passengers a thousand times virtually 00:29:28.275 --> 00:29:32.688 before they ever face a live passenger, on a jet, on a jet anyway. 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.624 we need to start to think in the accounting industry and in the MSP 00:29:37.624 --> 00:29:44.287 industry, we have to think about how do we simulate real work so that when someone 00:29:44.291 --> 00:29:47.203 starts to work, they are ready to work. 00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:49.638 Book knowledge is not enough. 00:29:49.809 --> 00:29:54.047 You have … We have to find a way to do the reps in order to build 00:29:54.047 --> 00:29:56.572 the muscle, and we can't fake that. 00:29:56.698 --> 00:29:59.158 We still have to do something to build the reps. So that's number one. 00:29:59.549 --> 00:30:03.517 Number two is I think we have to redefine what are we looking for. 00:30:04.485 --> 00:30:09.637 And quality control, even in, in MSP land, is going to be a 00:30:09.638 --> 00:30:11.434 significant part of what we do. 00:30:12.302 --> 00:30:19.509 So we have to retrain around what does good look like Bookkeepers learnt what 00:30:19.509 --> 00:30:22.969 good looks like because they spent years coding the transactions and getting 00:30:22.972 --> 00:30:26.604 feedback from their supervisors about where- the mistakes they've made. 00:30:28.107 --> 00:30:32.035 Well, their job is going to move to be doing that same work, but 00:30:32.452 --> 00:30:33.879 watching the machine instead. 00:30:34.790 --> 00:30:39.256 they have to now start to really understand what good looks like, because 00:30:39.257 --> 00:30:42.508 if they don't, don't know what good looks like, they can't identify bad. 00:30:44.197 --> 00:30:46.503 So that's how we l- I look at it in the accounting space. 00:30:46.504 --> 00:30:48.654 We've gotta, we've gotta talk about simulations. 00:30:49.041 --> 00:30:54.205 How do we train without, uh, you know, putting tax at risk? 00:30:54.531 --> 00:31:00.232 Um, and how do we help, uh, train people to know what good looks like rather 00:31:00.232 --> 00:31:04.568 than letting them learn that by osmosis, which is how they used to learn it 00:31:05.875 --> 00:31:06.455 Yeah, this is interesting. 00:31:06.455 --> 00:31:10.235 I'd not considered simulation, but, uh, so I was wondering where you 00:31:10.235 --> 00:31:11.875 were going with the, the, the pilots. 00:31:11.905 --> 00:31:13.265 But that, that makes a ton of sense. 00:31:13.325 --> 00:31:17.515 And, you know, to some degree, I suppose this is a strange issue of 00:31:17.515 --> 00:31:23.155 like, uh, the AIs will sort of remove that rung, but also provide the, 00:31:23.245 --> 00:31:27.355 the sort of the, the, the training and simulation requirement, right? 00:31:27.385 --> 00:31:31.094 Like an AI can build a lot of these simulations and act as a 00:31:31.115 --> 00:31:34.745 customer to, to give coaching and mentoring to, to scale up. 00:31:34.765 --> 00:31:38.875 This would be, I think, you know, maybe a separate pod-podcast entirely, 00:31:38.875 --> 00:31:43.135 but, uh, this I think is, uh, what you touched on is the future 00:31:43.185 --> 00:31:45.035 of education in general, right? 00:31:45.035 --> 00:31:49.075 Like a lot of this I think will be sort of pair-based learning of, uh, 00:31:49.435 --> 00:31:53.515 mentorship, and then you kind of exceed the coach at some point and have human 00:31:53.515 --> 00:31:57.745 level intelligence to QA and oversight these things for, you know, things 00:31:57.745 --> 00:31:59.613 that just require nuance, right? 00:31:59.665 --> 00:32:04.115 Like robots for now are still very good at predictable outcomes 00:32:04.285 --> 00:32:06.225 and are not terribly creative. 00:32:06.425 --> 00:32:10.145 Like they can act like they're creative, but they're generally kinda crap at it. 00:32:10.545 --> 00:32:14.195 Uh, and I think that this will be sort of an interesting future as 00:32:14.475 --> 00:32:19.375 that shifts and it becomes more of a, "I'll help you up to this level, 00:32:19.375 --> 00:32:22.325 and then you get to a level where you st- actually start to monitor me." 00:32:22.725 --> 00:32:26.595 So I think this will be, uh, uh, this will exist in pretty much 00:32:26.625 --> 00:32:28.132 every knowledge-based industry. 00:32:28.165 --> 00:32:31.465 And as you said, you guys are kinda seeing the, the thin edge of the wedge 00:32:31.465 --> 00:32:35.015 of this and, but it'll, it'll trickle down and affect all of us really. 00:32:37.639 --> 00:32:38.849 Well, this is fascinating, Peter. 00:32:38.869 --> 00:32:40.749 Uh, really appreciate ti- uh, your time. 00:32:40.749 --> 00:32:44.819 We'll, um, we'll link to you, uh, you yourself, your LinkedIn 00:32:44.829 --> 00:32:47.959 profile and your, your company, Fuel Accounting, uh, if anybody 00:32:47.959 --> 00:32:49.699 wants to continue the conversation. 00:32:49.699 --> 00:32:53.979 Any other sort of parting notes, words of wisdom, uh, from the front lines 00:32:53.979 --> 00:32:56.309 of, of knowledge work in the age of AI? 00:32:56.951 --> 00:32:57.318 Yeah. 00:32:57.322 --> 00:33:01.450 So I mean, your audience probably works with, with lots of accountants and, 00:33:01.461 --> 00:33:05.992 uh, in, in my AI accountant program, we actually teach accountants, uh, 00:33:06.006 --> 00:33:10.418 how to think about AI and how to implement AI within their firm, uh, 00:33:10.451 --> 00:33:14.087 so that they can… Basically, so they can survive the next two years. 00:33:14.342 --> 00:33:18.050 Because, you know, I'm convinced that the work will be different in less 00:33:18.050 --> 00:33:22.112 than two years from now, substantially different, and someone that hasn't 00:33:22.172 --> 00:33:27.638 adapted to that, uh, will not a good time with, with, with the industry. 00:33:27.976 --> 00:33:30.943 Um, so if any of your listeners have accountants and, and they, 00:33:30.953 --> 00:33:34.076 they are grappling with what should I be doing with AI? 00:33:34.405 --> 00:33:38.279 Uh, yeah, send them, send them to theaiaccountant.ai and we have something 00:33:38.280 --> 00:33:42.587 called the Practice Transformation Program, where we, we, we, we talk 00:33:42.594 --> 00:33:46.483 through all of the issues around AI, what it's doing to the marketplace. 00:33:46.483 --> 00:33:50.043 We talk about that price compression, uh, and, and then how do they 00:33:50.043 --> 00:33:54.016 prepare for a world where the AI does more and more of the work 00:33:55.099 --> 00:33:59.169 And not only the accountants that work for them, but probably a lot of 00:33:59.169 --> 00:34:02.609 their clients are accountants as well, and sort of this could be kind of 00:34:02.619 --> 00:34:04.384 leading them to that conversation of, 00:34:04.684 --> 00:34:05.033 Yeah 00:34:05.069 --> 00:34:07.919 changing my business, this is changing your business, so let's 00:34:07.919 --> 00:34:08.959 get on top of this," right? 00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:09.639 Well, that's great. 00:34:10.399 --> 00:34:11.229 Appreciate your time, Peter. 00:34:11.735 --> 00:34:12.049 Okay. 00:34:12.060 --> 00:34:12.381 Thank you. 00:34:12.401 --> 00:34:12.911 It was a pleasure