WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:05.460 Colin: All right. 00:00:05.460 --> 00:00:07.690 We're back and we're changing it up this week. 00:00:07.710 --> 00:00:09.750 We're going to change the intro. 00:00:09.943 --> 00:00:12.233 CJ: so how was GDC 00:00:12.578 --> 00:00:13.598 Colin: GDC was good. 00:00:13.728 --> 00:00:17.948 if you've been listening to the show again, these kind of come out in a 00:00:18.198 --> 00:00:21.313 time dilated manner, but GDC was good. 00:00:21.313 --> 00:00:24.533 It's It's always good to get into a conference and celebrate all the 00:00:24.533 --> 00:00:27.433 work that you've been doing and put it out into the world and also see 00:00:27.433 --> 00:00:28.643 what other people are working on. 00:00:29.223 --> 00:00:33.593 CJ: in terms of GDC versus a RailsConf or like another language conference? 00:00:33.686 --> 00:00:35.256 How big is it relative to that? 00:00:35.286 --> 00:00:37.686 And yeah, is it similar in any ways? 00:00:37.736 --> 00:00:39.236 Colin: I would say very different. 00:00:39.286 --> 00:00:41.026 it's a lot more like an industry conference. 00:00:41.026 --> 00:00:42.346 We were on the expo floor. 00:00:42.346 --> 00:00:44.616 There's a lot of talks and stuff you could go to. 00:00:45.156 --> 00:00:48.626 a lot of really cool industry talks, from creators of power world and all 00:00:48.626 --> 00:00:53.836 these like viral games that were really popular, a lot of stuff from unity and 00:00:53.866 --> 00:00:57.986 unreal and a lot of the game engines and different like publishers and 00:00:57.996 --> 00:00:59.486 game creators and things like that. 00:00:59.566 --> 00:01:03.146 and then on the show floor, you've got just like companies showing off, 00:01:03.586 --> 00:01:06.986 like teasing that the next thing that they're working on, or a lot of like 00:01:07.026 --> 00:01:11.266 unreal Fortnite, Epic games type stuff. 00:01:11.356 --> 00:01:12.936 really big booths from them. 00:01:13.816 --> 00:01:16.106 Almost I don't know, garishly large of a booth. 00:01:16.116 --> 00:01:17.626 It was like multi story. 00:01:18.026 --> 00:01:25.656 you go up into it and then meta had a huge booth for quests and Being able to show 00:01:25.706 --> 00:01:29.986 and I think like work with publishers and creators to try to get them To you know 00:01:29.986 --> 00:01:33.136 get their games built for quest Yeah, 00:01:33.436 --> 00:01:39.566 CJ: And so the few little Clips that I saw on social media of the game 00:01:39.566 --> 00:01:43.206 floor looked crazy because there was just giant screens everywhere with 00:01:43.246 --> 00:01:47.226 people Like demoing their Basically like their commercial or something 00:01:47.226 --> 00:01:50.536 for their games or playing or, yeah. 00:01:50.536 --> 00:01:53.046 So it definitely seemed like thousands of people. 00:01:53.606 --> 00:01:54.856 have you been to DEF CON? 00:01:54.946 --> 00:01:57.356 Colin: have not is that the germany one? 00:01:58.836 --> 00:02:03.056 CJ: This is the, it's in Vegas and it's like a security conference. 00:02:03.236 --> 00:02:06.296 And that's the biggest one that I've ever been to. 00:02:06.466 --> 00:02:10.296 and it, yeah, it's like very different from like a language conference, but. 00:02:11.121 --> 00:02:13.731 Colin: Yeah, it tends to be more like, the, a lot of the 00:02:13.731 --> 00:02:15.281 companies have a meeting room. 00:02:15.291 --> 00:02:18.441 It's a little bit more like CES in that regard where you're like 00:02:18.451 --> 00:02:19.651 creating meetings and stuff. 00:02:20.061 --> 00:02:25.426 There were a lot of Motion capture companies and like specifically 00:02:26.106 --> 00:02:29.876 motion capture for helping you to make the rigging for your game 00:02:29.906 --> 00:02:32.066 or for movies, things like that. 00:02:32.446 --> 00:02:36.446 but I think what's interesting is that like the tech hasn't changed a lot. 00:02:36.446 --> 00:02:40.126 It's a lot of the same cameras and like the little dots and stuff, but a lot 00:02:40.126 --> 00:02:42.036 of it is like supercharged with AI now. 00:02:42.296 --> 00:02:46.796 I guess like motion tracking has always been in camera tracking, but now when 00:02:46.796 --> 00:02:52.056 you have AI and ML at the level we do, you get this no post processing instance, 00:02:52.066 --> 00:02:56.406 like actors moving on a stage with a screen behind them and having it fully 00:02:56.406 --> 00:02:58.516 mapped to a character and stuff like that. 00:02:58.976 --> 00:02:59.926 That was really cool to see. 00:02:59.926 --> 00:03:02.176 Like those are clearly not for consumers. 00:03:02.356 --> 00:03:04.606 this is more of a that industry conference. 00:03:05.006 --> 00:03:07.526 whereas something like E3, which is gone now. 00:03:07.591 --> 00:03:11.871 was more for fans of games going and fans of companies, learning 00:03:11.871 --> 00:03:13.881 about what's coming out next. 00:03:14.031 --> 00:03:17.761 So there's a little bit of all of that, but it's definitely more industry focused. 00:03:17.761 --> 00:03:21.251 And, I didn't go to any of the talks, so I think that's like a 00:03:21.251 --> 00:03:24.161 whole other area of it that I'm sure a lot of people go just for that. 00:03:24.996 --> 00:03:28.316 CJ: were there any demos on the expo floor that just were like mind blowing? 00:03:28.891 --> 00:03:32.581 Colin: I think the most fun one for me was, there, there was one called 00:03:32.691 --> 00:03:38.541 MetaHuman from Unreal, which is like creating your own digital avatar. 00:03:38.971 --> 00:03:41.461 they, I don't know if they were doing it in the booth, but there 00:03:41.461 --> 00:03:44.951 was a long line of getting your face scanned and essentially turned into 00:03:45.421 --> 00:03:47.391 this digital avatar for yourself. 00:03:48.001 --> 00:03:52.481 but the other one was, It's definitely the motion capture, company, which I'm going 00:03:52.481 --> 00:03:56.611 to blank on the name of it, but their booth, I went to every hour on the hour. 00:03:56.611 --> 00:04:03.095 They had an entire like gymnast, and jump roping team that performed every hour. 00:04:03.095 --> 00:04:06.025 And it was pretty amazing just to see them doing jump roping and 00:04:06.025 --> 00:04:07.695 doing backflips in the jump ropes. 00:04:07.695 --> 00:04:07.764 wow. 00:04:07.915 --> 00:04:11.945 All while being motion captured, they gathered a crowd every single time. 00:04:12.415 --> 00:04:15.215 And I think a lot of people were like, how can we use this? 00:04:15.255 --> 00:04:16.905 cause like we need one of these in the office. 00:04:16.905 --> 00:04:18.465 We need a whole motion capture room. 00:04:19.465 --> 00:04:22.415 CJ: Is that the one that you post on Instagram where the, yeah, it must've been 00:04:22.445 --> 00:04:26.975 where the people are jump roping together and then, behind them, there was a screen 00:04:26.975 --> 00:04:30.015 where they were like animated characters that were following the same motion as 00:04:30.015 --> 00:04:31.445 the people that were jumping around. 00:04:31.935 --> 00:04:32.785 That was so wild. 00:04:32.795 --> 00:04:38.475 It was like, you could imagine that turning into like an Avengers movie or 00:04:38.475 --> 00:04:41.625 something where one person is the Hulk and they like look like the Hulk, but they're 00:04:41.625 --> 00:04:43.385 just moving around like normal person. 00:04:43.785 --> 00:04:46.735 Colin: it's interesting cause motion capture does not need to be 00:04:46.735 --> 00:04:49.475 in real time when you're talking about video games and stuff. 00:04:49.475 --> 00:04:51.265 So it's cool. 00:04:51.265 --> 00:04:55.635 It probably speeds up their development process if they can have a person and do 00:04:55.635 --> 00:04:59.435 the rigging instead of create the thing, create the scene, then do a render, 00:04:59.465 --> 00:05:01.095 do processing, all that kind of stuff. 00:05:01.455 --> 00:05:05.015 so doing it in real time probably does mean faster, getting your 00:05:05.015 --> 00:05:08.965 game to market faster, but, does not come cheap, I'm sure. 00:05:08.965 --> 00:05:08.980 Yeah. 00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:18.090 CJ: yeah, it seems like the whole, like that entire combination of 00:05:18.520 --> 00:05:24.860 real time tracking plus AI generated stuff is going to be a really crazy. 00:05:25.170 --> 00:05:29.550 like new frontier for video gaming, being able to just say okay, you're in 00:05:29.570 --> 00:05:34.220 this place with these game mechanics now go and generate an entire world 00:05:34.270 --> 00:05:39.590 with other digital people who don't actually exist making like just all 00:05:39.590 --> 00:05:43.250 like fantasy come to life in real time without having to have that be like 00:05:43.270 --> 00:05:45.270 prebuilt or, Pre programmed in any way. 00:05:45.280 --> 00:05:47.460 It's just like figuring it out for you. 00:05:47.460 --> 00:05:49.900 Colin: yeah, I think the thing that it's probably most relevant to what 00:05:49.900 --> 00:05:55.650 we've talked about with AI and co pilot and helping us to do our work is 00:05:55.650 --> 00:06:02.000 there's this new, it's like a half a game and half of an editor called frvr. 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:07.577 ai, and they've actually built a few games with us at Discord, It's pretty insane. 00:06:07.607 --> 00:06:09.977 so if you wanted to go try it, I think the beta is available. 00:06:09.977 --> 00:06:11.007 There's also a video. 00:06:11.377 --> 00:06:14.887 but what you can do is you can just prompt the creation of a game and 00:06:14.887 --> 00:06:20.247 it gives you both the simulator and the code and the game all in one UI. 00:06:20.247 --> 00:06:22.857 And so you could generate asteroids. 00:06:22.997 --> 00:06:27.167 Then you can say, okay, go ahead and make the ship fire at twice the speed and 00:06:27.167 --> 00:06:29.587 see the code updating, see the game run. 00:06:29.637 --> 00:06:32.347 you can tell it that you want some sort of power up and you're just 00:06:32.387 --> 00:06:34.167 prompting the entire way through. 00:06:34.277 --> 00:06:37.377 obviously like the cool thing is you get access to the code and 00:06:37.377 --> 00:06:38.547 then you can see what it's doing. 00:06:38.547 --> 00:06:41.907 So it's nice for learning, but it also, will allow you to get into the code. 00:06:41.907 --> 00:06:44.897 And then if something's not super smooth, you can go in and fix the code 00:06:44.907 --> 00:06:47.037 and make it the way you want it to. 00:06:47.037 --> 00:06:47.267 I think. 00:06:47.422 --> 00:06:51.232 I think it also does generate an art, which is obviously a little contentious, 00:06:51.582 --> 00:06:55.452 in the video game space right now, obviously even, programming and this 00:06:55.502 --> 00:06:58.942 goes back to that whole, AI is going to be replacing job type things, 00:06:58.942 --> 00:07:02.142 which I go back and forth on so much. 00:07:02.172 --> 00:07:05.082 Cause it's like a lot of the stuff we do, it's cool that this can. 00:07:06.015 --> 00:07:09.413 But my brain always goes to, there's just so many things that 00:07:10.073 --> 00:07:11.243 AI is not going to be able to do. 00:07:11.243 --> 00:07:15.703 Like being an electrician or a plumber or painting a house, things like that. 00:07:16.703 --> 00:07:17.693 CJ: yeah, a couple of thoughts. 00:07:17.743 --> 00:07:21.523 I saw a tweet where someone said this is a bunch of people. 00:07:22.028 --> 00:07:25.758 Rallying back against, all of the layoffs basically that are 00:07:25.758 --> 00:07:27.548 happening across the game industry. 00:07:27.548 --> 00:07:31.198 This is happening tech wide and the majority I don't think is related to AI. 00:07:31.268 --> 00:07:36.068 I think it's more related to like interest rates, but, yeah, it was like, Yeah, 00:07:36.068 --> 00:07:40.324 capitalism, there's a bunch of people screaming into the void about, not being 00:07:40.324 --> 00:07:44.504 happy with the current situation of their employment, and so they called it the GD 00:07:44.514 --> 00:07:50.584 scream, and, that was funny to see, And also, I was listening to a, I think it was 00:07:50.694 --> 00:07:57.084 an NPR, update this morning on the radio and they were talking to some folks that, 00:07:57.254 --> 00:08:01.274 were just like laid off from a coal mine somewhere and they were like, Oh, I think 00:08:01.314 --> 00:08:03.284 coal mining is going to make a comeback. 00:08:03.354 --> 00:08:05.384 It's going to be like a new wave of something. 00:08:05.414 --> 00:08:08.044 And, something is working, it's been working for a hundred years, I don't 00:08:08.054 --> 00:08:09.414 know why we have to change anything. 00:08:09.884 --> 00:08:13.744 And they fold that up with my biggest concern is I just want to be employed. 00:08:14.194 --> 00:08:16.054 I'm like, yeah, I totally understand that. 00:08:16.064 --> 00:08:16.614 I get that. 00:08:16.614 --> 00:08:20.374 And it can be like really scary to be like, okay, my entire industry is 00:08:20.374 --> 00:08:24.974 going away because it's being replaced by something else at the same time. 00:08:25.524 --> 00:08:30.484 The greater good is outweighing, like the individual in certain ways, we definitely 00:08:30.484 --> 00:08:34.004 want to support these folks and help build transition plans and smooth ways 00:08:34.014 --> 00:08:38.681 for people who are being, displaced by certain, like industries going away. 00:08:40.176 --> 00:08:43.876 At the same time, I think it's something we ought to lean into because these 00:08:43.876 --> 00:08:47.066 coal miners, they have all kinds of medical issues and like it's 00:08:47.066 --> 00:08:50.666 not healthy to be like down in the cold breathing all this crazy dust. 00:08:50.666 --> 00:08:53.456 And then also like the emissions that are related to that. 00:08:53.456 --> 00:08:56.976 And we can, that's like a completely other like separate argument, but whether or 00:08:56.976 --> 00:09:01.156 not your industry is going away because it's being automated away or Yeah. 00:09:03.821 --> 00:09:04.491 Exactly. 00:09:04.651 --> 00:09:08.621 Renewables or even fast food workers who might be, out of work because 00:09:08.621 --> 00:09:12.031 they're going to start automating, these entire fast food kitchens that 00:09:12.031 --> 00:09:16.051 are going to just be like giant robots that spit out, hamburgers or something. 00:09:16.511 --> 00:09:19.831 or, Amazon warehouse workers being replaced by figure 00:09:19.951 --> 00:09:22.221 ones and like the optimists. 00:09:22.396 --> 00:09:28.111 These like, C3PO bots or, R2D2, R2D2 a little easier C3PO a 00:09:28.111 --> 00:09:29.641 little harder, but, it's coming. 00:09:29.671 --> 00:09:30.431 How can we. 00:09:30.619 --> 00:09:34.639 As a society position ourselves to take advantage of it and like work together 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:36.739 to make everyone, level up a little bit. 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:38.589 interesting, but 00:09:38.902 --> 00:09:41.082 Colin: So I think you were also talking a little bit about being 00:09:41.082 --> 00:09:43.202 busy the last couple of weeks. 00:09:43.212 --> 00:09:44.812 So do you want to talk a little bit more about that? 00:09:46.132 --> 00:09:50.822 CJ: we're getting ready to launch a big feature, for, Craft work I've been 00:09:50.822 --> 00:09:53.882 talking about this for several weeks, but, we've integrated with Twilio. 00:09:53.922 --> 00:09:56.082 We integrated with podium and email. 00:09:56.082 --> 00:10:00.422 And so we have SMS and a bunch of other messaging tools and 00:10:00.992 --> 00:10:03.092 we can handle like voice calls. 00:10:03.092 --> 00:10:03.972 And if someone calls and. 00:10:04.092 --> 00:10:09.062 We'll say, this call might be monitored, recorded, we have automated voice back 00:10:09.072 --> 00:10:13.332 and then recording, and then we take recordings and transcribe and using 00:10:13.332 --> 00:10:17.792 that transcription and all previous messages as like input into, into models 00:10:17.792 --> 00:10:21.882 where we can then make intelligent co pilot like decisions for people 00:10:21.882 --> 00:10:24.012 who are like authoring messages. 00:10:24.452 --> 00:10:29.842 So it has been, yeah, it's been a lot trying to just come into parody 00:10:30.467 --> 00:10:34.917 All of the niceties that we've come to expect from a messaging thing. 00:10:34.927 --> 00:10:36.607 chat is no longer just chat now. 00:10:36.607 --> 00:10:38.877 It's I want to schedule a message for later. 00:10:38.877 --> 00:10:42.357 And, I want to be able to send attachments of any kind, and I want to be able 00:10:42.357 --> 00:10:45.147 to edit my message and cancel it. 00:10:45.167 --> 00:10:52.287 And, like whether or not a message is read or the conversation is read and whether 00:10:52.287 --> 00:10:54.207 or not you care about that conversation. 00:10:54.307 --> 00:10:57.147 We don't want to necessarily have a global inbox of all the messages. 00:10:57.147 --> 00:11:00.717 We want to have some narrow focused thing where if you are on the sales 00:11:00.717 --> 00:11:05.537 team, you only care about conversations that are managed by you or something. 00:11:05.537 --> 00:11:09.867 So figuring all of that out has been quite a massive undertaking, 00:11:09.867 --> 00:11:14.637 but I think we're, we are going to launch today, tomorrow ish. 00:11:15.217 --> 00:11:19.807 And, yeah, I think the team has been super pumped to get it in their hands. 00:11:19.817 --> 00:11:22.427 So that's been, yeah, we've been pretty heads down on that for a while. 00:11:23.197 --> 00:11:23.427 Colin: Yeah. 00:11:23.427 --> 00:11:28.277 I think that's interesting because when you think about doing any sort 00:11:28.277 --> 00:11:32.107 of like hiring somebody to work on something, like a lot of it is the 00:11:32.107 --> 00:11:36.307 communication and the scheduling and then a little bit of it is doing the 00:11:36.307 --> 00:11:39.237 actual thing and just coordinating. 00:11:39.237 --> 00:11:41.837 So it'll be interesting to see how that pays off for y'all. 00:11:42.587 --> 00:11:46.867 And hopefully you have some downtime planned after all of this. 00:11:47.764 --> 00:11:53.525 CJ: I've been trying to do a pretty good job of taking breaks in between, when I'm 00:11:53.525 --> 00:11:57.845 starting to feel tuckered out or whatever, just taking breaks and trying to, remember 00:11:57.845 --> 00:11:59.265 that it's a marathon, not a sprint. 00:11:59.265 --> 00:12:02.245 And we have these seasons where we're sprinting pretty hard, but 00:12:02.695 --> 00:12:06.105 also we want this to be sustainable or as sustainable as possible. 00:12:06.105 --> 00:12:09.675 So just trying to temper the, grind with. 00:12:10.050 --> 00:12:12.860 getting out and, Being outside, but yeah, definitely. 00:12:13.250 --> 00:12:18.320 Um, it's for sure been on my mind, like the more we get, the deeper we get into 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:23.370 these massive feature launches and also like the stress of, okay, you're going to 00:12:23.370 --> 00:12:26.840 launch something and if it breaks, like it's going to directly impact everyone 00:12:26.920 --> 00:12:30.090 at the company and the customer and the whole experience and everything. 00:12:30.090 --> 00:12:32.140 So the stress related to. 00:12:32.285 --> 00:12:35.985 The visibility and, foundational nature of certain things is, I think 00:12:35.985 --> 00:12:37.545 that also adds to the potential. 00:12:38.025 --> 00:12:38.345 I don't know. 00:12:38.575 --> 00:12:43.075 is there something that you notice when you're like starting to feel burnt out? 00:12:43.435 --> 00:12:46.535 Is there like any particular behavior and 00:12:46.755 --> 00:12:51.155 Colin: That might be something I need to pay more attention to but I can definitely 00:12:51.205 --> 00:12:57.375 tell Like my sleep starts to take a dive I think I know more when it's like 00:12:57.375 --> 00:13:01.715 all consuming Actually like in terms of like when I go home I'm still thinking 00:13:01.715 --> 00:13:04.545 about the thing and then I'm like, oh we got to fix this thing in the morning 00:13:04.935 --> 00:13:10.865 Because then you don't actually get rest And so it's better I find to write 00:13:10.865 --> 00:13:16.225 it down and so you don't forget it and then let yourself take an actual rest. 00:13:16.685 --> 00:13:19.925 So I guess that is probably the most obvious thing that I noticed is that 00:13:20.525 --> 00:13:25.805 I tried to leave my work, In the laptop at work, things like that. 00:13:26.165 --> 00:13:29.845 when it starts to follow me everywhere, then we're approaching burnout. 00:13:29.915 --> 00:13:31.445 if it's the only thing I can think about. 00:13:31.975 --> 00:13:35.875 If I'm worried about things that, are maybe out of my hands, I just need 00:13:35.875 --> 00:13:40.787 to write them down, flagged them to, If it's infrastructure or like I'm 00:13:40.787 --> 00:13:43.997 worried about how community will receive something, things like that, then it's 00:13:44.047 --> 00:13:46.467 maybe we need to think about it, but I don't need to think about it at 10 00:13:46.467 --> 00:13:48.287 o'clock at night or staying up late. 00:13:48.717 --> 00:13:54.147 Like I have found that when I'm most like that, I'll, either play video games or 00:13:54.157 --> 00:13:57.497 scroll and just be up until I'm so tired. 00:13:57.777 --> 00:13:59.647 Versus getting like restful sleep. 00:13:59.647 --> 00:14:03.167 and then you don't start the next day rested at all. 00:14:03.217 --> 00:14:07.107 And that, so then you're robbing Peter to pay Paul the next day 00:14:07.107 --> 00:14:09.007 and it just keeps, keeps going. 00:14:09.397 --> 00:14:09.807 So 00:14:10.232 --> 00:14:12.272 CJ: Yeah, definitely a cycle for sure. 00:14:12.576 --> 00:14:19.156 I definitely find that it can be all consuming and just, I think it's 00:14:19.156 --> 00:14:23.626 the same thing that I notice when I'm starting to like, think, oh shoot, 00:14:23.636 --> 00:14:28.076 like there's like that orange flag in my head of I gotta, Got to be careful. 00:14:28.146 --> 00:14:32.876 And what's surprising to me sometimes is that it is super fun. 00:14:32.886 --> 00:14:36.206 Like I find all this work stuff really fun and exciting. 00:14:36.666 --> 00:14:41.826 And I want to do it, like I want to spend the time grinding and I want 00:14:41.836 --> 00:14:45.616 to build and I want to keep going on features and I want to live in it and 00:14:45.616 --> 00:14:47.616 soak in it and just be in the work. 00:14:47.821 --> 00:14:52.371 And it is at the same time, like it feels like there's just a certain 00:14:52.371 --> 00:14:54.761 point, like when you reach that point and just like a switch flips 00:14:54.761 --> 00:14:57.131 and you're like, Oh, like I can't, 00:14:57.141 --> 00:14:57.911 Colin: the last straw. 00:14:58.086 --> 00:14:58.696 CJ: now it's not. 00:14:59.016 --> 00:14:59.646 Yeah, exactly. 00:14:59.646 --> 00:15:00.746 Now it's not fun anymore. 00:15:00.746 --> 00:15:03.986 So it's weird because it's even if it is fun. 00:15:04.861 --> 00:15:08.371 Or even if I am enjoying it and being excited by it, I have to try to like 00:15:08.411 --> 00:15:12.371 actively say, okay, I'm going to go do something away from the computer. 00:15:12.371 --> 00:15:17.041 Now the, this weekend, we're going to go outside and, yeah, be offline. 00:15:17.271 --> 00:15:18.031 Colin: Which can help. 00:15:18.061 --> 00:15:20.681 Cause if you write it down and you can still be excited about 00:15:20.681 --> 00:15:22.301 it, but not actively doing it. 00:15:22.301 --> 00:15:23.421 Like I get that. 00:15:23.876 --> 00:15:27.276 Like wave of I want to do all the things all at once, but if you can 00:15:27.276 --> 00:15:30.726 write it down and let it run in your background thread for a little bit, 00:15:30.726 --> 00:15:34.346 like sometimes it goes faster when you go sit down after taking a break. 00:15:34.366 --> 00:15:37.506 And so without taking those breaks, you make mistakes. 00:15:37.516 --> 00:15:39.456 You don't see things as obvious. 00:15:39.456 --> 00:15:40.656 Maybe it just takes longer. 00:15:40.686 --> 00:15:42.676 So yeah, it's tricky. 00:15:42.686 --> 00:15:45.306 Like after GDC, I want to go play with all the game engines. 00:15:45.706 --> 00:15:50.896 And it's probably better to pick one and get good at that one and then figure 00:15:50.896 --> 00:15:55.626 out what the next one is, but it's, it can be exciting and still burn you out. 00:15:55.656 --> 00:15:59.456 And obviously like we have such a huge privilege to be able to work 00:15:59.576 --> 00:16:04.026 online in the first place, but like staring into the screen, it takes a 00:16:04.026 --> 00:16:05.506 lot out of you more than you'd think. 00:16:05.506 --> 00:16:09.646 So you do have to make sure you don't spend your off time staring at a 00:16:09.646 --> 00:16:11.176 little screen or a different screen. 00:16:12.439 --> 00:16:12.669 CJ: yeah. 00:16:12.669 --> 00:16:15.969 Something I have found on the little screen that's been really relaxing. 00:16:16.069 --> 00:16:18.929 I used to think it was funny that my kids would watch people 00:16:18.939 --> 00:16:20.429 on YouTube, play Minecraft. 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:23.089 And it's Oh, they're going out and they're building all this stuff. 00:16:23.129 --> 00:16:26.369 And like recently I've been super into watching these like ASMR 00:16:26.369 --> 00:16:30.539 YouTube videos of people bushcrafting and they're like building, like 00:16:30.619 --> 00:16:31.729 cabin in the woods or whatever. 00:16:31.729 --> 00:16:35.529 I'm like, this is literally just Minecraft, but like for in real 00:16:35.529 --> 00:16:37.399 life, like it's the same thing. 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:41.409 They're just, they're out there with their hatchet, chopping away at the ground and 00:16:41.439 --> 00:16:45.789 making little forts and stacking up rocks and making a little chimney or whatever. 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:47.689 I'm like, this is the same as Minecraft. 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:49.549 It's just like in real world. 00:16:50.349 --> 00:16:53.569 Colin: So then the next step is going out there and doing it yourself. 00:16:54.749 --> 00:16:58.469 CJ: I know I'm super excited that it's been raining for a couple of days, 00:16:58.469 --> 00:17:00.339 our last snow is finally melted. 00:17:00.339 --> 00:17:02.549 So got to get the chainsaw out 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:07.179 Colin: Do some, ASMR maple syrup tapping, maple syrup evaporating. 00:17:08.334 --> 00:17:12.824 CJ: Dude, the syrup came out so good and we just got a, an espresso machine. 00:17:13.204 --> 00:17:17.354 So I've been making like maple espressos or like maple lattes in the morning. 00:17:17.354 --> 00:17:22.074 And they're off just so killer to be like, we made this with our land. 00:17:22.575 --> 00:17:25.055 Colin: is gonna become a homesteading podcast. 00:17:25.105 --> 00:17:26.735 build and learn, taking a turn. 00:17:27.073 --> 00:17:30.113 CJ: there's a lot to learn out there in the wild, actually, yeah, I'm curious, 00:17:30.113 --> 00:17:34.873 like on, on the learning front, I know that you at the Reno collective, there's 00:17:34.893 --> 00:17:36.443 quite a bit of gardening going on. 00:17:37.813 --> 00:17:39.423 How involved in that are you? 00:17:39.443 --> 00:17:44.213 And what would you say in terms of like on a skill level of zero to 10, what are 00:17:44.213 --> 00:17:46.303 we talking about for gardening skills 00:17:46.633 --> 00:17:50.283 Colin: Yeah, so the collective garden is a little bit of a tragedy of the 00:17:50.283 --> 00:17:54.723 common situation, which is that everyone wants the garden, And a lot of people 00:17:54.723 --> 00:17:57.533 will plant the garden, but then no one wants to take care of the garden. 00:17:58.998 --> 00:17:59.188 CJ: I 00:17:59.213 --> 00:18:05.163 Colin: So we've every spring we'll pay to go get the seedlings and do all the 00:18:05.173 --> 00:18:10.003 stuff and then the harder part is always getting people to continually care for it. 00:18:10.633 --> 00:18:12.528 Sometimes then no one harvests it. 00:18:12.788 --> 00:18:13.688 it when it's ready. 00:18:13.718 --> 00:18:14.418 Things like that. 00:18:14.418 --> 00:18:16.898 I would say we're not very high on the skill tree yet. 00:18:16.908 --> 00:18:18.028 So we're still working on it. 00:18:18.028 --> 00:18:20.038 I think we'll probably try again this year. 00:18:20.038 --> 00:18:24.898 We have the garden boxes ready to go and we just got to wait till the snow's 00:18:24.898 --> 00:18:26.738 melted on Peavine before we start. 00:18:28.318 --> 00:18:28.908 CJ: Nice. 00:18:28.998 --> 00:18:29.468 Okay. 00:18:30.298 --> 00:18:35.588 Yeah, I think, we built a garden box the first summer we lived here 00:18:36.108 --> 00:18:37.758 and we built it like on the ground. 00:18:37.758 --> 00:18:39.058 It's like not a huge raised bed. 00:18:39.058 --> 00:18:42.008 It's just raised like 12 inches or whatever the two by 12. 00:18:42.678 --> 00:18:44.578 And the rabbits ate like everything. 00:18:44.758 --> 00:18:48.798 And so this year I have plans to build like other higher raised 00:18:48.808 --> 00:18:51.698 up a little bit higher, maybe like waist height garden beds. 00:18:52.298 --> 00:18:56.028 but that will be a lot of learning and building, in a completely like homesteady 00:18:56.083 --> 00:18:57.283 Colin: maybe you need a greenhouse. 00:18:57.373 --> 00:18:58.493 Keep those animals out. 00:18:59.768 --> 00:19:03.208 CJ: it's definitely high on my list of like wants for sure. 00:19:03.348 --> 00:19:06.068 Colin: And then you can make a YouTube video of you chopping 00:19:06.068 --> 00:19:07.608 wood, building a greenhouse, 00:19:07.698 --> 00:19:08.178 CJ: Yeah. 00:19:08.628 --> 00:19:09.278 Got to get, yeah. 00:19:09.278 --> 00:19:12.158 I got to get one of those, road mics so I can, wear it 00:19:12.158 --> 00:19:14.128 around my hat, like Sam Sulek. 00:19:14.478 --> 00:19:16.718 Colin: Yeah, I've got some, videos to send you for sure. 00:19:16.728 --> 00:19:18.938 We'll have to start a shirt playlist, but, 00:19:19.618 --> 00:19:20.088 CJ: Oh yeah. 00:19:20.178 --> 00:19:20.608 Nice. 00:19:20.688 --> 00:19:24.058 Colin: yeah, I think, did we talk about me trying to buy a house last episode? 00:19:24.058 --> 00:19:25.868 Yeah. 00:19:26.243 --> 00:19:27.393 CJ: I think, yes. 00:19:27.513 --> 00:19:27.783 Yeah. 00:19:27.783 --> 00:19:28.623 So what's the latest 00:19:28.728 --> 00:19:29.338 Colin: Oh, man. 00:19:29.658 --> 00:19:31.438 it was so we, we had lost it. 00:19:31.438 --> 00:19:32.668 I think it was what we talked about. 00:19:32.888 --> 00:19:36.968 and then it went back on the market and, I was at GDC. 00:19:36.968 --> 00:19:39.768 So I like, just hit all the buttons in Redfin. 00:19:39.768 --> 00:19:43.648 I was like, let's go, let's go get this thing and felt so good about it. 00:19:43.668 --> 00:19:47.628 And we basically rode the rollercoaster of emotions twice 00:19:47.688 --> 00:19:54.521 because we got outbid by somebody who decided to put 60 percent down. 00:19:54.981 --> 00:19:55.941 No appraisal. 00:19:55.941 --> 00:19:57.641 And They went way over asking. 00:19:58.141 --> 00:19:59.931 So I was like, we were so close. 00:19:59.931 --> 00:20:02.471 Cause it was one other offer that was like asking. 00:20:02.471 --> 00:20:06.641 And then we went in and we did a little bit over just to make it nice and said, 00:20:06.641 --> 00:20:08.301 we'll close quick and all that stuff. 00:20:08.331 --> 00:20:09.811 And it was cool. 00:20:09.811 --> 00:20:10.941 It was a learning process. 00:20:10.941 --> 00:20:13.051 Like I learned a lot about. 00:20:13.331 --> 00:20:17.601 All the different levers you have for contingencies and things like that. 00:20:17.711 --> 00:20:22.391 But, part of me is still watching it, waiting and hoping that they get cold feet 00:20:22.391 --> 00:20:23.881 and that goes back on the market again. 00:20:23.881 --> 00:20:26.831 But I, I don't think I can handle losing it again. 00:20:28.171 --> 00:20:29.811 Yeah, it's it's a funny thing. 00:20:30.151 --> 00:20:34.011 It is crazy that is still happening with the interest rates And so I 00:20:34.231 --> 00:20:37.181 guess if you have the cash, then the interest rate doesn't matter so much. 00:20:37.181 --> 00:20:37.491 So 00:20:38.654 --> 00:20:44.094 CJ: so the NAR, the National Association of Realtors, there was like this case 00:20:44.094 --> 00:20:46.374 where a bunch of rules just changed. 00:20:46.464 --> 00:20:47.544 Is that impacting you at 00:20:47.644 --> 00:20:51.444 Colin: I don't think it's rolled out yet And with Redfin, there's usually like a 00:20:51.444 --> 00:20:54.894 commission listed for the buyer's agent. 00:20:54.904 --> 00:20:56.914 So this one said two and a half percent. 00:20:57.384 --> 00:21:01.134 but yeah, that case basically says that those rates are negotiable. 00:21:01.664 --> 00:21:05.674 some would argue, some people were arguing that why aren't agents paid 00:21:05.684 --> 00:21:07.454 hourly instead of commission based? 00:21:07.454 --> 00:21:09.654 And it's because if you don't buy a house with this person, 00:21:09.654 --> 00:21:10.924 like they're not getting paid. 00:21:10.989 --> 00:21:14.379 but if you do, then it's a big payout, and it's all worth it. 00:21:14.459 --> 00:21:16.539 I'm pretty sure my real estate agent doesn't listen to this 00:21:16.549 --> 00:21:18.349 podcast, but, I found them. 00:21:18.389 --> 00:21:21.509 They're just the default lead agent on Redfin. 00:21:22.379 --> 00:21:23.299 Barely. 00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:25.109 they were like, who is this person? 00:21:25.109 --> 00:21:26.839 Why are they trying to buy this house so fast? 00:21:26.899 --> 00:21:28.519 And I was like, you're going to get your commission. 00:21:28.529 --> 00:21:30.589 Please help me get this thing. 00:21:30.669 --> 00:21:34.619 And I think we'll be finding somebody that we actually want to work 00:21:34.619 --> 00:21:36.539 with for the, if we keep looking. 00:21:37.106 --> 00:21:42.216 CJ: It's a bummer that you lost it twice, but it's good that, yeah, 00:21:42.216 --> 00:21:45.906 you're going through the motions and building the muscle of okay, when 00:21:45.936 --> 00:21:47.796 it goes in the market, it's go time. 00:21:47.846 --> 00:21:50.676 And you've got all the right documents in the right places and 00:21:50.676 --> 00:21:53.226 the right understanding of your financial situation and all that. 00:21:53.326 --> 00:21:59.896 yeah, what I was remembering is that when Nicole was doing the real estate agent 00:21:59.906 --> 00:22:10.346 thing in Nevada, I think it costs 1, 500 a month to list yourself on Zillow as like 00:22:10.356 --> 00:22:13.326 an agent that shows up in that sidebar. 00:22:13.346 --> 00:22:17.756 So I don't know what it is for Redfin, but they're definitely paying some 00:22:17.756 --> 00:22:20.366 pretty penny to become the default agent. 00:22:20.866 --> 00:22:23.116 Colin: I think this person works for Redfin. 00:22:24.436 --> 00:22:27.146 They are like the agent of agents. 00:22:27.146 --> 00:22:29.246 They probably have agents under them and stuff. 00:22:29.296 --> 00:22:29.676 yeah. 00:22:30.326 --> 00:22:34.396 But I think the big, the biggest lesson is trying not to get attached to things, 00:22:34.396 --> 00:22:38.046 but like you want to want the thing that you're going to spend this much money on. 00:22:38.696 --> 00:22:44.606 And, in our case, we got attached two times and hook, line and sinker on that. 00:22:44.616 --> 00:22:49.026 But yeah, finding an agent who knows what we're looking for and is watching 00:22:49.026 --> 00:22:53.966 cause like Redfin and Zillow are delayed compared to the MLS, which you shouldn't 00:22:54.196 --> 00:22:56.476 think that would matter, but it does. 00:22:57.166 --> 00:22:58.076 CJ: it totally does. 00:22:58.096 --> 00:22:58.506 Yeah. 00:22:58.866 --> 00:23:02.746 And sometimes if you find like a solid agent too, like they'll get back channel 00:23:02.746 --> 00:23:07.756 information about houses between like inside their network, because they'll talk 00:23:07.756 --> 00:23:11.586 to people who are talking to people who are thinking of selling, and even before 00:23:11.586 --> 00:23:16.156 they put their house in the market, your agent will yeah, catch wind of something 00:23:16.526 --> 00:23:18.006 happening across town or whatever. 00:23:18.106 --> 00:23:21.876 Colin: it's not a good sign for the supply of houses is that like my Redfin, 00:23:22.516 --> 00:23:24.756 I have reached inbox zero on Redfin. 00:23:24.906 --> 00:23:27.546 I have no new houses to look at. 00:23:27.566 --> 00:23:31.926 And so it's just now when they pop up, I'm like, okay, wrong area. 00:23:31.956 --> 00:23:35.226 Not, it's a McMansion that's super ugly, whatever. 00:23:37.146 --> 00:23:37.516 But 00:23:38.651 --> 00:23:45.221 CJ: yeah, the MLS to their search engine and filtering is really granular. 00:23:45.291 --> 00:23:50.921 Like you can say, I only want to see three bedroom, two full bathroom 00:23:50.921 --> 00:23:57.201 houses with shingle roofs in this zip code that are zoned for this school. 00:23:57.691 --> 00:24:00.601 That, are on, yeah, exactly. 00:24:00.631 --> 00:24:04.131 Like you can get super, super specific and then yeah, maybe you only get 00:24:04.131 --> 00:24:07.561 one alert per month or something, but then that'll be the one. 00:24:08.211 --> 00:24:11.611 so yeah, I definitely find that agents often will try to negotiate with 00:24:11.611 --> 00:24:15.441 their clients to be more flexible about what they want just so that 00:24:15.461 --> 00:24:19.891 they can see different options and open their, maybe open the client's 00:24:19.891 --> 00:24:23.251 mind to different possibilities, but also like they just want to close. 00:24:23.301 --> 00:24:26.081 Incentive alignment always bothered me between agents and 00:24:26.081 --> 00:24:28.541 buyers, like even in sellers too. 00:24:28.541 --> 00:24:29.151 It's it doesn't, 00:24:29.311 --> 00:24:29.731 Colin: Yeah. 00:24:29.916 --> 00:24:31.956 CJ: The incentives are certainly not aligned. 00:24:32.096 --> 00:24:32.766 Colin: That's the house. 00:24:32.806 --> 00:24:33.866 That's the house update. 00:24:34.446 --> 00:24:36.206 What do you, is there anything else that you're working? 00:24:36.206 --> 00:24:38.566 I know you've been working so much on this messages stuff, but 00:24:39.086 --> 00:24:39.916 anything else you're building? 00:24:41.491 --> 00:24:45.341 CJ: In any home services, the success of the business is all about gross margin. 00:24:45.901 --> 00:24:49.531 Basically like, how much profit can you make based on. 00:24:50.061 --> 00:24:54.191 How you're pricing and how you're optimizing for the time that 00:24:54.191 --> 00:24:56.491 you're spending at the place and supplies and everything. 00:24:56.491 --> 00:25:00.481 And so we've also been working on this massive, gross margin calculator 00:25:00.481 --> 00:25:04.331 that takes into account, like labor that's happening and also supplies 00:25:04.341 --> 00:25:10.091 that we're buying and, We have a cost analysis thing that looks at discounting 00:25:10.091 --> 00:25:12.141 and, a whole bunch of other stuff. 00:25:12.181 --> 00:25:14.811 And so that's been another piece of the puzzle is just like starting 00:25:14.811 --> 00:25:20.111 to track all of those different, expenses and costs and figure out 00:25:20.111 --> 00:25:22.771 what our true picture is per project. 00:25:22.791 --> 00:25:25.321 So a lot of boring accounting. 00:25:25.726 --> 00:25:30.056 Type like crud stuff, but I think we've got some cool integrations coming down 00:25:30.056 --> 00:25:36.076 the pipe where Many of our suppliers will give us like rough PDFs that are 00:25:36.086 --> 00:25:42.416 pretty gnarly And so we're hoping to try to use some LLMs to just give it a 00:25:42.416 --> 00:25:46.926 PDF and try to get some structured JSON back so we'll see how that works out, 00:25:46.926 --> 00:25:50.476 but That's that's it on, on our side. 00:25:51.486 --> 00:25:55.426 It sounds like you've been working a bit on the calendar, the booking 00:25:55.426 --> 00:25:57.376 software for booking conference rooms. 00:25:57.376 --> 00:25:58.096 How's that going? 00:25:58.541 --> 00:26:02.021 Colin: So I had abandoned it because we figured out. 00:26:02.041 --> 00:26:06.911 So we use a company called Robin and we've discovered they had a free plan 00:26:06.971 --> 00:26:10.511 if we deleted a bunch of our members who never booked conference rooms. 00:26:11.061 --> 00:26:12.901 And so we just stay under that limit. 00:26:12.941 --> 00:26:16.741 And we just say if you really need a conference room, we'll add you, but 00:26:16.741 --> 00:26:17.731 we've got to stay into this limit. 00:26:18.391 --> 00:26:23.071 And I logged in yesterday to update an iPad that just wasn't 00:26:23.071 --> 00:26:26.401 working and they have decided to get rid of their free plan. 00:26:27.786 --> 00:26:28.746 CJ: oh my gosh. 00:26:28.776 --> 00:26:29.286 Okay. 00:26:29.561 --> 00:26:30.911 Colin: I don't know, I'm going back and forth. 00:26:30.921 --> 00:26:36.301 I think I still agree with the idea that I should not build co working software. 00:26:36.871 --> 00:26:42.571 but I think there's room for purely meeting room software. 00:26:42.631 --> 00:26:45.801 And each room is tied to a Google calendar. 00:26:45.881 --> 00:26:46.301 Each. 00:26:46.656 --> 00:26:50.336 Calendar is tied to an iPad and then it just renders it and 00:26:50.336 --> 00:26:51.566 you can book it on the iPad. 00:26:51.886 --> 00:26:55.326 That's what the dream has always been and that's one feature of Robin. 00:26:55.826 --> 00:26:57.336 So Robin went upstream. 00:26:57.336 --> 00:27:02.956 They became this hot desking check in big company tool for hey, you have 00:27:02.956 --> 00:27:08.146 a guest or you have a certain hot desk today or you've got mail In 00:27:08.146 --> 00:27:11.406 the mail room and you have a COVID screen, all these different things. 00:27:11.876 --> 00:27:13.726 We only want the meeting room piece. 00:27:13.726 --> 00:27:16.856 So I've been watching the coworking software. 00:27:16.856 --> 00:27:20.086 There's like a coworking software group where it's more proof that we 00:27:20.086 --> 00:27:21.586 shouldn't build all the other stuff. 00:27:21.596 --> 00:27:24.226 Cause like everyone's using a different payment provider. 00:27:24.706 --> 00:27:26.526 They have different door systems. 00:27:26.526 --> 00:27:31.356 They have different, like we bill on the first, third and fifth day. 00:27:32.536 --> 00:27:37.156 like it's like the weirdest rules that like we only bill on one day per month. 00:27:37.306 --> 00:27:38.486 We use Stripe for that. 00:27:38.906 --> 00:27:42.996 We're not going to change that, but I need to have a solution by the 15th of April. 00:27:43.226 --> 00:27:49.096 and it might even just be like a green red toggle button to start with until we can 00:27:49.096 --> 00:27:51.046 get like user accounts and all that stuff. 00:27:51.076 --> 00:27:54.296 But, yeah, Sometimes decisions get made for you. 00:27:54.816 --> 00:27:57.756 CJ: What is like the first level of the Robin plan? 00:27:57.816 --> 00:28:00.036 Like it, you have to talk to sales or something, or? 00:28:00.091 --> 00:28:01.461 Colin: we used to pay for it. 00:28:01.671 --> 00:28:03.691 It's one of those things where it looks like people notice it when 00:28:03.691 --> 00:28:08.571 it's not there, but we were paying like, I think it was like 2, 000 a 00:28:08.571 --> 00:28:11.181 year or something for three rooms. 00:28:11.981 --> 00:28:14.326 So I think it would be like, it's such a. 00:28:15.216 --> 00:28:19.786 inexpensive thing like I can say that because we can we are capable of building 00:28:19.786 --> 00:28:25.036 these things but like It feels like it's it wasn't worth it when we're full and 00:28:25.036 --> 00:28:28.816 maybe now that we are full again Maybe it's worth just thinking about paying 00:28:28.816 --> 00:28:32.776 for it again Because if I divide that by months and I divide it by my like 00:28:32.776 --> 00:28:36.356 time Like how much I get paid and all that it's is it really worth my time? 00:28:36.926 --> 00:28:40.286 I think if I do this I have to consider whether or not I could spin 00:28:40.286 --> 00:28:46.156 it up as like a sass that's like You know Is it worth it if it's 30 bucks 00:28:46.156 --> 00:28:48.206 a month, and people just do that? 00:28:48.216 --> 00:28:54.006 Cause that would be like, what, 360 a year for people to do. 00:28:54.146 --> 00:28:55.156 So we'll see. 00:28:55.186 --> 00:28:58.166 Cause I think there's a lot of people who honestly do this for their 00:28:58.166 --> 00:29:02.456 house and, small coworking spaces that don't want to use software. 00:29:02.466 --> 00:29:06.326 The tricky thing is that this is a feature of most coworking software out there. 00:29:06.366 --> 00:29:08.766 do you need it for just an office that you have? 00:29:08.766 --> 00:29:09.696 Do you want it for. 00:29:10.481 --> 00:29:12.781 a room in your house, whatever that might be. 00:29:12.841 --> 00:29:13.891 I need to think about it a little bit more. 00:29:15.224 --> 00:29:21.113 CJ: we have a conference room at the office that we just set up recently 00:29:21.113 --> 00:29:24.763 as like a room that is bookable and Google calendar or whatever. 00:29:25.373 --> 00:29:30.903 But because I'm remote I have no idea how they're actually handling when they want 00:29:30.903 --> 00:29:33.903 to book it in real time and just be like, I'm taking the, I'm taking the room for 00:29:33.903 --> 00:29:35.463 the next hour and I don't know how they. 00:29:35.783 --> 00:29:39.233 Look at if it's booked or not for the next hour, I think the other thing 00:29:39.233 --> 00:29:44.693 too, that might be interesting is you could sell it as like a package like buy 00:29:44.693 --> 00:29:48.293 it for 2, 000 this year and you get an iPad mini or something, and then just 00:29:48.543 --> 00:29:50.143 Colin: Or it could be like a once product. 00:29:50.163 --> 00:29:50.733 It's here you go. 00:29:50.733 --> 00:29:51.273 You paid for it 00:29:51.483 --> 00:29:52.293 CJ: Yeah, exactly. 00:29:53.118 --> 00:29:53.598 Totally. 00:29:53.628 --> 00:29:54.518 That might be interesting. 00:29:54.518 --> 00:29:56.413 Yeah. 00:29:56.653 --> 00:29:59.403 Colin: is that I'm also thinking about doing, we can, 00:29:59.503 --> 00:30:00.833 I might as well say it here. 00:30:00.843 --> 00:30:03.753 Cause if I don't say it, I might not do it, but I'm thinking about. 00:30:04.618 --> 00:30:09.788 Building, the name that I have for it right now is Cal CalWIN, which is just 00:30:09.788 --> 00:30:14.268 the Tailwind calendar, but like with all of the full hooks, and JavaScript and 00:30:14.268 --> 00:30:17.598 stuff built in for Tailwind specifically. 00:30:17.628 --> 00:30:21.978 'cause I need it and the ui, it does exist in Tailwind ui. 00:30:22.348 --> 00:30:23.758 I don't need to go do all that. 00:30:24.298 --> 00:30:26.818 They actually have a new template that's coming out that 00:30:26.818 --> 00:30:28.078 I'm really excited about too. 00:30:28.078 --> 00:30:29.018 But, what's it called? 00:30:29.018 --> 00:30:29.678 It's called Catalyst. 00:30:30.693 --> 00:30:35.740 But, yeah, I think having an open source thing that would be fun to release as a 00:30:35.820 --> 00:30:41.010 calendar plugin for tailwinds, and then I would use it myself inside of this thing. 00:30:41.150 --> 00:30:44.400 whether it's maybe the whole thing's open source and I don't try to charge 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:48.300 for it, I don't know, cause maybe people will help maintain it if that way. 00:30:48.926 --> 00:30:53.586 CJ: we use full calendar and I don't know how much we style it 00:30:53.616 --> 00:30:55.256 with tailwind, but it's not like. 00:30:55.881 --> 00:30:56.261 Colin: It's not 00:30:56.406 --> 00:30:58.946 CJ: The default is not Tailwind. 00:30:59.501 --> 00:31:00.711 Colin: or something like that. 00:31:01.616 --> 00:31:02.146 CJ: yes. 00:31:02.186 --> 00:31:03.696 There is definitely something 00:31:04.456 --> 00:31:04.896 Colin: Are you guys 00:31:04.896 --> 00:31:06.826 using tailwind for everything else? 00:31:06.856 --> 00:31:07.856 CJ: We are, yeah. 00:31:07.926 --> 00:31:12.316 This is definitely one of the special snowflake things in the app that 00:31:12.316 --> 00:31:16.876 are, I think we do have CSS, we write like CSS to style, like to 00:31:16.876 --> 00:31:20.756 hide certain buttons or to color the weekends or to color the whatever. 00:31:21.476 --> 00:31:22.306 it's also not free. 00:31:22.666 --> 00:31:26.166 we pay for some sort of license. 00:31:26.616 --> 00:31:27.676 it has a free trial. 00:31:28.766 --> 00:31:32.126 So as long, I think as long as you're not selling it or something, then, 00:31:33.106 --> 00:31:35.146 Colin: Nice Yeah, so we'll see. 00:31:35.316 --> 00:31:37.936 I know we brought this one up a lot over the last couple of the 00:31:37.936 --> 00:31:40.231 last So it feels like a thing. 00:31:40.771 --> 00:31:42.921 I've had it on my list of Oh, I should build that thing. 00:31:42.921 --> 00:31:44.411 And then we're like, Oh, we found the free plan. 00:31:44.491 --> 00:31:47.351 I can mark this off my to do list as if I had done it. 00:31:47.961 --> 00:31:52.641 And then it sneaks back onto the list, but I totally get it. 00:31:52.691 --> 00:31:55.491 I think that this goes back to what we talked about before though, is 00:31:55.491 --> 00:31:58.431 that if you're thinking about building something, I know there's so many people 00:31:58.431 --> 00:32:00.901 out there who want to build something and create something, especially with 00:32:01.321 --> 00:32:02.811 the number of layoffs and things. 00:32:03.531 --> 00:32:09.441 So many of the companies that we were around in coming up the Airbnb 00:32:09.441 --> 00:32:13.361 era of software, they all have gone upmarket and there's this giant 00:32:13.371 --> 00:32:19.361 gaping hole of good software that does one thing very well and, doesn't 00:32:19.361 --> 00:32:21.391 require procurement and a sales team. 00:32:21.861 --> 00:32:25.101 So you know, what does intercom today look like if you were 00:32:25.101 --> 00:32:26.611 to start it over from scratch? 00:32:27.357 --> 00:32:27.987 CJ: 100%. 00:32:28.077 --> 00:32:33.827 along those lines, an update for buckets, I was having an issue where, first of 00:32:33.827 --> 00:32:37.587 all, we went and tried like a whole bunch of data providers, like connecting to 00:32:37.587 --> 00:32:42.667 Plaid or connecting to MX or connecting to FinCity or connecting to whatever, 00:32:43.027 --> 00:32:47.807 Stripe, to get financial data, like transaction data and balances, basically. 00:32:48.044 --> 00:32:53.454 It's a hot mess for sure, like there's just so many different providers and 00:32:53.454 --> 00:32:55.454 none of them give you all the things. 00:32:56.144 --> 00:33:00.904 I want to see crypto, I want to see in, brokerage accounts, 401k, 00:33:00.914 --> 00:33:06.024 stock accounts, property, checking accounts, credit cards, like all of the 00:33:06.024 --> 00:33:07.954 transactions from all of those things. 00:33:08.424 --> 00:33:10.734 And also the balances for all those things, and there 00:33:10.744 --> 00:33:12.654 is no one stop shop today. 00:33:13.194 --> 00:33:18.294 Stripe claims to be that, and they do a pretty good job, but there is a giant 00:33:18.314 --> 00:33:25.714 hole in their integration where if you, connect to any kind of account that 00:33:25.714 --> 00:33:30.934 is not a credit card account or bank account, if it disconnects, there's no 00:33:30.934 --> 00:33:34.264 way to reconnect it other than just like creating a whole entirely separate new 00:33:34.264 --> 00:33:36.134 one, and there's no way to de dupe them. 00:33:36.334 --> 00:33:36.714 Colin: Yeah. 00:33:37.574 --> 00:33:42.134 I found this when I was doing, like frantically trying to fill out stuff to 00:33:42.134 --> 00:33:46.704 get pre approval for the house offer, cause what we were dumb and like when 00:33:46.704 --> 00:33:49.444 we lost the house the first time, we didn't think let's just get pre 00:33:49.444 --> 00:33:51.334 approved anyway and then we'll be ready. 00:33:51.734 --> 00:33:55.564 So we got ready fast, but I had, I went through multiple 00:33:55.574 --> 00:33:57.464 firms to get different offers. 00:33:57.494 --> 00:34:01.774 And It was so painful to be like, okay, I need to go like why isn't there a 00:34:01.774 --> 00:34:06.934 common app or a Vault that is like my financial or even I think about this 00:34:06.934 --> 00:34:11.324 for medical too That they just plug into and they have my entire history and I 00:34:11.424 --> 00:34:15.614 don't need to like Go download the last 60 days of bank statements from every 00:34:15.614 --> 00:34:19.963 account you own and then go find all these like retirement accounts and things. 00:34:19.963 --> 00:34:22.813 I'm like, I'm not draining my retirement account to buy this house. 00:34:22.813 --> 00:34:26.713 So I don't really know why you need that other than like net worth, cause I know 00:34:26.713 --> 00:34:31.253 we've looked at some of these tools for know your customer type stuff like KYC 00:34:31.263 --> 00:34:37.143 stuff, but even being able to just verify net worth income, assets, stuff like that. 00:34:38.743 --> 00:34:40.613 It feels like there should be a thing for that. 00:34:41.344 --> 00:34:44.654 Even for yourself like I think that's how we think about it with buckets. 00:34:44.664 --> 00:34:50.814 It's like what buckets of money savings retirement emergency fund And then 00:34:51.034 --> 00:34:55.654 in that maybe category with Josh is like maybe I want to buy a house or 00:34:55.684 --> 00:34:57.234 maybe I want To quit my job, right? 00:34:57.244 --> 00:35:02.224 It's like thinking about those what those maybes are So early days still 00:35:02.224 --> 00:35:04.214 in FinTech, which is crazy to think 00:35:04.214 --> 00:35:04.364 of 00:35:04.864 --> 00:35:05.034 CJ: Yeah. 00:35:05.034 --> 00:35:07.964 That might be one interesting feature of maybe might be tell me how much I 00:35:07.964 --> 00:35:10.204 could get pre approved for, like roughly 00:35:10.656 --> 00:35:12.546 Colin: And then get a pre approved through it. 00:35:12.546 --> 00:35:13.416 Like we're going to 00:35:13.526 --> 00:35:14.666 send all your data 00:35:14.797 --> 00:35:15.457 CJ: yes. 00:35:15.497 --> 00:35:15.947 Yes. 00:35:15.977 --> 00:35:17.857 Then they can sell it to mortgage 00:35:18.027 --> 00:35:19.877 Colin: and then they make money through mortgage brokers. 00:35:19.897 --> 00:35:20.097 Yeah. 00:35:20.942 --> 00:35:21.382 CJ: Yeah. 00:35:22.232 --> 00:35:22.612 yeah. 00:35:22.672 --> 00:35:23.252 Interesting. 00:35:23.382 --> 00:35:23.902 I don't know. 00:35:24.012 --> 00:35:27.102 something that, so Nicole and I, we've talked about this a bunch 00:35:27.102 --> 00:35:31.432 too, that like we use YNAB for our budgeting and, we go over our 00:35:31.432 --> 00:35:33.022 grocery budget every single month. 00:35:33.332 --> 00:35:36.492 just because random stuff ends up in there or whatever, or, I don't know. 00:35:36.502 --> 00:35:39.002 We're just being like, we're not being as disciplined as we should be. 00:35:39.002 --> 00:35:42.702 And so this month we're like, we're not going over a single penny on the grocery 00:35:42.702 --> 00:35:48.312 budget, but something that I wanted to do, is look at the L3 transaction data and try 00:35:48.312 --> 00:35:53.332 to figure out, can I use the target API and the whole foods API in the, Walmart 00:35:53.352 --> 00:35:58.422 API and the Haniford API and Costco API to pull in what are the exact foods 00:35:58.432 --> 00:36:00.012 that we're buying at all these places? 00:36:00.022 --> 00:36:01.402 Or what are the groceries we're buying? 00:36:01.412 --> 00:36:04.162 And is there a way we can price match at different places to 00:36:04.162 --> 00:36:06.542 try to optimize, spend for. 00:36:06.677 --> 00:36:10.977 Our family groceries, because there's, probably yeah, eight different 00:36:10.977 --> 00:36:14.007 grocery stores that we go to, and surely we're spending too much at 00:36:14.027 --> 00:36:16.747 one of them for something that we could get cheaper at somewhere else. 00:36:17.762 --> 00:36:18.332 Colin: Interesting. 00:36:18.517 --> 00:36:20.667 CJ: Definitely, over, over optimizing 00:36:20.712 --> 00:36:23.212 Colin: might spend more money building that than saving. 00:36:23.432 --> 00:36:23.862 CJ: Yeah. 00:36:24.072 --> 00:36:24.482 Yeah, 00:36:24.757 --> 00:36:28.567 Colin: and when you say that, the idea that as long as we can categorize things 00:36:28.567 --> 00:36:33.327 properly, like for me, I don't necessarily want to obsess over every penny. 00:36:33.357 --> 00:36:35.300 I want to know, if we think about a budget, all I just 00:36:35.300 --> 00:36:36.590 want to know is the bucket. 00:36:37.220 --> 00:36:39.030 did we barely make a dent in the bucket? 00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:42.220 If there's a grocery bucket, is it an overflowing bucket? 00:36:42.720 --> 00:36:44.130 Does it need two buckets? 00:36:44.180 --> 00:36:45.870 And what did I put the target on? 00:36:46.340 --> 00:36:51.240 Cause we did, I did open a PR for adding goals and that kind of made 00:36:51.240 --> 00:36:55.450 me think a little bit, I did a really naive approach to goals, which is just 00:36:55.660 --> 00:36:58.680 having a denominator in general, but. 00:36:59.265 --> 00:37:03.355 When I think about goals and what I loved about bank simple when they were around 00:37:03.755 --> 00:37:05.885 was the ability to create target goals. 00:37:06.195 --> 00:37:09.445 And so you could say, I want to go to Hawaii in December, 00:37:09.805 --> 00:37:10.815 it's going to cost this much. 00:37:10.835 --> 00:37:13.555 And then they backtrack it and say, Okay, if you want to be on target, by 00:37:13.555 --> 00:37:16.685 then you need to save this much aside. 00:37:16.685 --> 00:37:19.715 And as you and you can either automatically move money into that 00:37:19.715 --> 00:37:23.990 little bucket, it Or you can just manually do it and update your progress 00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:26.110 and it would show you your wins. 00:37:26.150 --> 00:37:30.130 so for now I think it's just cool to see, like my emergency 00:37:30.130 --> 00:37:31.790 fund goal is this over this. 00:37:32.190 --> 00:37:35.920 but if we do goals over time, you can start to see Oh, my emergency fund 00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:39.870 goal was a thousand dollars and then 5, 000 and you can paint a little 00:37:40.170 --> 00:37:42.150 like milestone history for yourself. 00:37:42.632 --> 00:37:43.142 CJ: Totally. 00:37:43.262 --> 00:37:43.762 Yes. 00:37:44.592 --> 00:37:47.092 I didn't see that you opened that PR so it's merged now. 00:37:47.882 --> 00:37:48.812 yeah, I love that. 00:37:48.822 --> 00:37:49.402 That's so cool. 00:37:49.402 --> 00:37:52.492 That's like exactly what I would want from goals too. 00:37:52.652 --> 00:37:54.162 Like just a simple, something simple. 00:37:54.162 --> 00:37:57.742 Colin: we'll start simple, but I do want to do the more dynamic goals 00:37:57.752 --> 00:38:01.602 of just okay, here's where it gets a little bit more complicated if you 00:38:01.602 --> 00:38:06.372 don't, if you're not the bank, like with bank simple, it was the bank. 00:38:06.392 --> 00:38:10.637 And so It could move the money around and hide it from you. 00:38:10.637 --> 00:38:14.147 But then also when you were ready to like book the trip, you could say my 00:38:14.147 --> 00:38:16.287 card is now pulling from that bucket. 00:38:16.877 --> 00:38:19.347 I mean you could just move the money into your main account once you 00:38:19.347 --> 00:38:21.147 hit the goal and pay for the thing. 00:38:21.157 --> 00:38:22.687 But, yeah, interesting. 00:38:23.332 --> 00:38:26.772 CJ: One thing that we've been chatting about recently is like needs 00:38:26.772 --> 00:38:29.342 versus wants versus emergency fund. 00:38:29.352 --> 00:38:34.242 And are those three different buckets or are they like, okay, maybe wants 00:38:34.242 --> 00:38:37.292 is a separate thing from needs and emergencies is like a need. 00:38:37.952 --> 00:38:42.092 Maybe if some, a need comes up that technically is an emergency, but 00:38:42.092 --> 00:38:43.452 it doesn't feel like an emergency. 00:38:43.892 --> 00:38:47.052 Like we had to replace a boiler and. 00:38:47.712 --> 00:38:49.172 it was like 17 K or something. 00:38:49.172 --> 00:38:53.012 And so it's okay, does that come from like the emergency fund? 00:38:53.132 --> 00:38:58.952 Does it come from the wants fund or is there some other thing? 00:38:58.962 --> 00:39:00.942 should we sell stock to pay for that thing? 00:39:00.942 --> 00:39:06.122 Or should we like not sell stock or, do you make your emergency fund drop down 00:39:06.122 --> 00:39:08.502 and then fill it back up or I don't know. 00:39:08.522 --> 00:39:08.792 Yeah. 00:39:08.842 --> 00:39:10.692 trying to think about, think about that a little bit. 00:39:11.242 --> 00:39:14.272 I guess we're also in a very privileged spot to not have to. 00:39:14.587 --> 00:39:17.387 Touch our needs, wants, or emergency fund very often. 00:39:17.387 --> 00:39:20.987 And so it's just huh, when we do, what, how do we want to think about it? 00:39:20.987 --> 00:39:23.307 Or what do we, like, where do we want to pull it from? 00:39:23.947 --> 00:39:26.567 Colin: does not feel like, like wants to me are things that 00:39:26.567 --> 00:39:28.277 you don't need to buy a boiler. 00:39:28.277 --> 00:39:29.467 Sounds like you need to buy it. 00:39:29.667 --> 00:39:31.587 And it sounds like it might've been an emergency. 00:39:32.007 --> 00:39:35.257 Some people advocate for an, like a, an oh shit fund. 00:39:35.777 --> 00:39:36.137 CJ: Yeah. 00:39:36.567 --> 00:39:40.507 Colin: so emergency, it depends on if that is an emergency, it's good to 00:39:40.507 --> 00:39:44.547 have, but a lot of people think of an emergency fund as like what expenses 00:39:44.547 --> 00:39:49.177 you need to live for three months, six months, whatever that ends up being, 00:39:49.627 --> 00:39:51.397 and you eventually get to maybe a year. 00:39:52.467 --> 00:39:53.607 That would be amazing. 00:39:53.697 --> 00:39:56.907 Some people want that in their brokerage instead of in savings. 00:39:57.247 --> 00:40:01.391 but then having that other fund of the things break, type of thing. 00:40:01.651 --> 00:40:04.531 Honestly, even for a lot of those things, every time people are 00:40:04.531 --> 00:40:06.001 like, Oh, it's an unexpected thing. 00:40:06.001 --> 00:40:10.061 It's if there's one unexpected thing every year, it's not unexpected. 00:40:10.211 --> 00:40:13.491 it's now expected and we just got to save for it, plan for 00:40:14.154 --> 00:40:18.194 CJ: I always felt bad about keeping an emergency fund in cash, but 00:40:18.514 --> 00:40:22.074 Vanguard just launched this new thing called like cash plus or something. 00:40:22.074 --> 00:40:24.494 It's like the Vanguard version of a high yield savings account. 00:40:25.144 --> 00:40:28.044 And yeah, I'm like, Oh man, this is going to be awesome. 00:40:28.374 --> 00:40:31.594 I love Vanguard, hashtag VTSAX for life. 00:40:31.891 --> 00:40:38.041 I set it all up and it has this weird, caveat that you can't deposit or withdraw 00:40:38.091 --> 00:40:41.431 in the same way that you can to other accounts on Vanguard, at least not yet. 00:40:41.971 --> 00:40:44.501 And so when I go to interact with it, the only way I can get 00:40:44.501 --> 00:40:45.991 money in is a mobile deposit. 00:40:46.531 --> 00:40:47.151 Like what? 00:40:47.621 --> 00:40:49.981 Like you want me to write a check to 00:40:50.036 --> 00:40:51.716 Colin: It's like a forced savings account. 00:40:51.776 --> 00:40:52.076 Yeah. 00:40:52.198 --> 00:40:53.058 CJ: Yeah, exactly. 00:40:53.058 --> 00:40:53.993 okay, this is, yeah, 00:40:54.783 --> 00:40:58.013 Colin: I use one finance and I mean their savings is 5%. 00:40:58.083 --> 00:41:01.413 So like it feels pretty good to do that right now. 00:41:01.503 --> 00:41:04.953 When things go down in interest rates, then maybe it doesn't feel 00:41:04.953 --> 00:41:06.743 as good to keep it in cash, but 00:41:07.287 --> 00:41:10.487 CJ: Before my thought was in my mind. 00:41:10.507 --> 00:41:16.257 I was able to juggle having half of the emergency fund just yellowed and stuff in 00:41:16.257 --> 00:41:19.887 Robin Hood and then half of the emergency fund in cash, like in a savings account. 00:41:20.437 --> 00:41:22.507 But Nicole prefers it a different way. 00:41:22.507 --> 00:41:26.347 And so I'm trying to adjust my mental model and come to some middle 00:41:26.347 --> 00:41:30.147 ground, which feels like high yield savings account is probably the 00:41:30.147 --> 00:41:32.437 safer way to go for those two things. 00:41:32.467 --> 00:41:32.827 But, 00:41:33.537 --> 00:41:33.947 Colin: totally. 00:41:35.217 --> 00:41:35.557 CJ: All right. 00:41:35.607 --> 00:41:36.777 maybe we should wrap it 00:41:36.887 --> 00:41:37.507 Colin: I think so. 00:41:37.517 --> 00:41:38.577 We covered a lot of ground. 00:41:39.807 --> 00:41:42.897 CJ: right on, as always, you can head over to buildandlearn. 00:41:42.897 --> 00:41:43.377 dev. 00:41:43.397 --> 00:41:46.357 We'll drop links to things that we talked about. 00:41:46.417 --> 00:41:48.637 And, if you have an opportunity. 00:41:49.257 --> 00:41:54.297 Dear listener, head over to your podcast player, drop in five star review 00:41:54.857 --> 00:41:56.797 and tell your friends about the show 00:41:56.988 --> 00:41:57.748 Colin: We'll see you next time. 00:41:58.448 --> 00:41:58.998 CJ: by friends.