[00:00:00] Antony W: Welcome to the Grow My Salon Business podcast, where we focus on the business side of hairdressing. I'm your host, Antony Whitaker, and I'll be talking to thought leaders in the hairdressing industry, discussing insightful, provocative, and inspiring ideas that matter. So, get ready to learn, get ready to be challenged, get ready to be inspired, and most importantly, get ready to grow your salon business.

[00:00:27] Antony W: Hey, it's Antony Whitaker here, and welcome to today's episode of the Grow My Salon Business podcast. As always, it's great to have you here with us today. Now many of our listeners will know that my hairdressing background started with a 10-year stint at Vidal Sassoon salons in schools in London before going off to do my own thing. However, like all hairdressers, whether you worked at Sassoon or not, most of us are interested in how the brand has continued. To evolve on its 65 year journey thus far, which is a major feat in itself. I always say that part of what Vidal Sassoon demanded was change the way that we looked at and how we worked with hair it’s in my mind, every bit as important as that is that he showed change. And continuing to evolve is essential if you want to survive, not just in hairdressing, but in any business. And over the last few years, the Sassoon brand has continued to evolve and very recently they announced that there were some big and exciting changes that would happen in both London and Los Angeles, simultaneously. So, my guest on today's podcast is my good friend and former colleague, Mark Hayes, who is the international Creative Director at Sassoon and he's going to tell us all about it. So, without further ado, welcome Mr. Mark Hayes.

[00:01:51] Mark H: Thank you very much, Antony Good morning. Good morning, everybody, how are we all?

[00:01:55] Antony W: So, well, we, I, you know, I got through the introduction. I know we had a bit of a laugh beforehand and stuff, and I had to sort of redo it a couple of times here, but we’re off to the races. So, it's great to have this opportunity to catch up with you first.

[00:02:09] Mark H: Very nice.

[00:02:09] Antony W. On a professional level. So, tell us all about it. Mark. I don't have a lot of notes here to bounce off. All I know is that Sassoon made a big announcement on social media, and I've been able to sort of research a little bit about what's happening, but, you know, it sounds really impressive because you know, like a lot of things when you are a big player and Sassoon there's a big player in the world of hairdressing. When anything goes wrong, everyone hears about it and everyone's got an opinion and, you know, so it's no secret that like a lot of businesses you've had challenging times over the last, you know 3 -4 years in Covid.

[00:02:40] Mark H: Yeah absolutely.
 
[00:02:41] Antony W: But so, this announcement is really exciting and, I'm excited about I'm sure everyone else is So, so over to you.

[00:02:48] Mark H: Yeah. No, it's, I mean, it's amazing because really when you, as you say Sassoon first salon on 1954 Bond Street. You know, so that's, what's that getting on? It's getting on for 70 years,

[00:03:00] Antony W: Isn't Yeah Is it is. getting on for 70 years. [00:03:02] Mark H: even 80? Is it.
[00:03:03] Antony W: Well so. [00:03:05] Mark H: Math
[00:03:05] Antony W: You will do the Math.

[00:03:07] Mark H: Exactly. Me and Rishi Sunak were like that with the old math dude. so yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, so the thing with it is that, you know, we've been looking at this for a while now, you know, and I think we have got a number of. plans with the new space. So, it's, so we've called it House of Sassoon. What does that mean? It means that we are combining in London and in Los Angeles, we are combining a salon space with an academy space with a studio photographic space. in one location or in two locations, one in London, one in la and they're going to be in the house of Sassoon So they will in a sense, be the nucleus of everything that goes on Sassoon wise, in terms of education, in terms of clients. In terms of producing the imagery and everything else is all going to be housed in one location, which obviously as know, Antony you've, you know, you've experienced this Sassoon vibe, if you like, the energy of it. When you get all those creative people together, and I'm not just talking about the creative team, I'm talking about the whole Sassoon family, if you like. It's such a powerful, exciting thing that, that I think in a sense this is not just a new location for Sassoon it's like a re-launch of the brand. Cause as you say, you know, the industry's been a challenge, certainly over the last, you know, last four ye three to four years. With various things, you know, COVID and all the stuff that we know has happened to the world globally. And Sassoon has been affected by that, you know, Sassoon but I think during that time we were actively making plans of how we were going to come out of this, you know, because we knew we would. You know, so how are we going to come out of this? And the House of Sassoon concept was kind of born outta looking at what we've done up until now, you know, with education, with salons, with all the stuff that, that we know Sassoon stands for. And thinking about how we respond to the way the industry is developing in the 21st century. You know, obviously we've seen huge changes. Certainly, in the last 10 years of how people interact with the industry and what have you. So, we, it's partly a response to that and trying to find ways to, as I say, relaunch, reinvent, reinvigorate the brand so that the next 65 years is going to be as exciting as and chaotic as the 65, which is part of the brand's charm. Let’s face it, you know, you need a bit of chaos in there.
 
[00:05:41] Antony W: Well, 65 years is a long time for any business. If you think of all of the big businesses in the world today, I don't know, apple, Amazon, you know, alphabet. I mean, you know, they're all, what, 10, 20 years old? mean,

[00:05:54] Mark H: Yeah

[00:05:54] Antony W: 65 years and continuing to evolve. [00:05:56] Mark H: It's crazy.
[00:05:56] Antony W: Is a big deal. know, the very few salons that reach 65 years of age,

[00:06:01] Mark H: Well, especially when you think about the industry, you know, the industry, the beauty industry, which obviously hair is part of, is quite a fickle kind of thing change and things move quite quickly and fads and trends and gimmicks and whatever. Whatever you want, kind of come and go. I think. And I think that's true. I think that's what happens. I think, I always think that Sassoon you know, it's kind of, it's a double-edged sword, isn't it? Being around for that long. You know, it kind of on the one side of the sword, on the one side of the blade, it speaks of consistency, of quality of, you know, something you know that side of stuff on the other side of the blade, it could say, oh, you know, old fashioned stayed, kind of, you know, so I think you have to be mindful of that. the brilliant thing is that the team, you know, the real Sassoon is and always has been about the team You know, the last, the, in fact the last conversation I ever had with Vidal which was kind of quite emotional he said to me, who are you? No, he didn't say it he, he said to me, he said, don't think I ever underestimate why my name is still in the public consciousness. You know, the, and it that, that, that was like one of the last conversations we had. don't think I ever under, don't think I ever underestimate why my name is still in the public consciousness, because he knew that the reason people are still into to Sassoon what they do is. Yes, of course Vidal back in the day, but it's more about the team now, you know? And I'm lucky enough to have spent, you know, every single day of my work in life at Sassoon and I've seen all these incredible people. And still the incredible people. Now, you know, when I look at, what the team do now with hair, I still kind of think, wow, you know, I'd never thought of. I wish I had. Thought of doing that or how, you know, so it's still innovating all the time and I think that's the key to it. I think more than anything else, the, and I, when I say about creativity, I don't just mean creativity with your hands, I mean creativity with your mind, with your heart, with everything. People who stay at Sassoon for any length of time have it in their Blood in their DNA, in their in, you know, their passion for it in a total sense, you know, you care about it deeply. You you can't help. But yeah, just feel totally and utterly responsible for it the brand.

[00:08:19] Mark H: cherishing it and nurturing it and making sure that's the ultimate kind of thing the brand is, Held as sacrosanct. You know, that's the kind of thing, and every, everything we do is geared towards that. and sometimes it's kind of almost subconscious, you know? it's a subconscious thing. You don't think about it. You just do it. and you at the expense of everything else, the brand has to be represented in
 
the right way, And I know, I believe that. And I'm, and I know everyone that works at Sassoon believes that.

[00:08:49] Antony W: Okay. So many good points that I wanted to touch on. Going right back to, House Sassoon it's obvious, but it's not obvious. It's like, what do nothing about? You know, it, it's like when you talk about the house of, it's usually the house of Gucci, the house of Chanel, the, you know, it's those big fashion brands.

[00:09:09] Mark H: The House of Fun. [00:09:10] Antony W: House of fun which.
[00:09:14] Mark H: Welcome to, sorry, it just came into my head.

[00:09:18] Antony W: Exactly, which have reinvented themself. It's like, the Gucci movie again. You've seen the Gucci movie, I'm sure you.

[00:09:24] Mark H: Yeah.

[00:09:24] Antony W: I watch that again over Christmas. Great. Great movie. I loved it. And often you see these, fashion brands that have completely reinvented and So I'm sure I'm not the only one that has sort of sat there and looked at hairdressing brands, ie. Sassoon and say I wonder if that's possible with a hairdressing brand as well

[00:09:46] Mark H: Let's see.

[00:09:47] Antony W: Yeah. Well, let's see, because there, there is no real forerunner that you can say, well yeah, look at this and look at that. I mean, most hairdressing brands have their day in the sun and most of them do not get anywhere near 65 years. So, let see. Will be really interesting. I'm sure it could, but the word that sort of springs to. mind Is when you talk about the house of, and you talk about this reinvention is heritage. There’s a wonderful heritage in the brand of Sassoon.

[00:10:15] Mark H: Yeah.

[00:10:16] Antony W: and that something that needs to be played on. And then the other thing I scribbled down was, That, I don’t know who said it, but someone once said, the thing about business, if you want it to change and evolve and grow is it's not just about getting new ideas in, it's about getting old ideas out.

[00:10:36] Mark H: Yeah.

[00:10:37] Antony W: think about that, the truer it is. And I think that's one of the reasons why a lot of businesses don't survive and reinvent is because they're, you
 
know, the person at the top of the pile. It is hanging on too much to the way things when done they were a boy. And in my opening thing where I said about Vidal I've always thought that about him, that it wasn't just about, oh, you know, I'm going to change the way people look and think about here It was the whole thing about change. Like,

[00:11:03] Mark H: Yeah.

[00:11:03] Antony W: Whole. I’m gonna go in this direction and let's see what happens.

[00:11:06] Mark H: Yeah, I think I think you're right. I think Vidal I always think, you know, obviously when you look back over 65 years or whatever, you can kind of see something of a path of a direction. Do you know what I mean? But when you're in it, When you're doing it, you are just doing what you're into, I think, and I think that's what, to be honest, when I really think about Vidal and Roger and Christopher and all those guys back in the day, you know, at the very beginning, I don't think any of them thought Oh, in 65 year’s time, me and you were going to be sat here talking about remembering. They were just doing what they were into.

[00:11:40] Antony W: Yeah

[00:11:40] Mark H: They were doing what excited them. They were doing what, you know, they would, you know, like, like we all do. At the time. When you're in it, at the time, you're just thinking, I'm into this. I want to do this. You might have some kind of vague notion that it will lead somewhere or be successful or whatever, or be popular or whatever, but I think at the time you can only do what you're into. You know, really, and I think with the House of Sassoon you know, really it was about, you know, Debbie, our CEO, Diane, myself, and a few other people sitting around saying, right, okay, well look, if we are going to move forward, With the brand and coming out of Covid and all the stuff that's happened us, what do we want the brand to look like? We, obviously, education is a massive part of the DNA of Sassoon so education, obviously the salon, you know, part of that, getting all the team together was a big thing. Getting all the team in one place, but then also. You know, one of the other things we wanted to do, so we've got the education, we've got the client, you know, the salon base. We’re bringing the team together, but then also looking at the industry, we were thinking, well, you know, there's probably lots of people out there that have either worked at Sassoon or studied with Sassoon that would like to be part of the family we know. We've got students coming from all over the world, you know, and have done for the last 50, 60 years to, to educate with, this but why don't we grow that a bit bigger? So, in a sense it's like in the Blues Brothers getting the band back together

[00:13:02] Antony W: Yeah

[00:13:02] Mark H: With, you know, if you've studied at Sassoon or you've worked at Sassoon and you want to be part of that family again, we're, we are setting up a thing, we are calling it am ambassadors, like a private membership thing. While you
 
can hire a space in the house of Sassoon and work out of there on a freelance basis, that sort of thing. So China, you know, so in a sense it's a flexible, it's not only the House of Sassoon the team, it's also the House of Sassoon for the extended family, cause that's, Kind of what Vidal always used to refer to as students. You know, once you've, and you said it in your intro, once you've studied it Sassoon or once you've been part of Sassoon always in there, you know, you kind of feel part of it, which you, which obviously see everyone is. So we are opening that up as well. So we're going to, so it's a, it's not just the brand itself, it's extending the reach of the brand so that you can come and be part of it however you wish to be.

[00:13:59] Antony W: Great. Okay. Who came up with a name?

[00:14:03] Mark H: How it's sort of, house of Sassoon I think Michael Rheinstein might have done. Actually, I'm not sure.

[00:14:08] Antony W: Okay. Good.

[00:14:09] Mark H: Vidal Sassoon is the bloke's name. I don’t know that is the gazes name above the door. that, that's a, but yeah, house of Sassoon just seems to, you know, as you said earlier, house of Gucci, house of Chanel, it just seemed to embody the whole thing. And above the door is going to be Vidal Sassoon So it's kind of, you know,

[00:14:28] Antony W: Oh Okay. that’s interesting. Good, good. [00:14:31] Mark H: Yeah
[00:14:32] Antony W: You've talked a couple of times about getting everyone under one roof

[00:14:36] Mark H: Yeah.

[00:14:36] Antony W: A consolidation happening? Are there, are some of the salons that currently exist or coming in under one roof, are they.

[00:14:43] Mark H: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, so, you know, I think one of the first times we experienced this, it was in, when we had Buckingham Gate and we had all of the academy. Cause before that we had three or four academies in London, which you'll remember. and we decided to bring everyone together and the kind of energy that created was so, palpable. You know, you walked in the, you walked in the space every morning and you've got every, you know, you've got 20, 25 teachers there with all the students, you know, 4, 2, 200 students or what have you. The reception team, the leadership team, the offices at the back. it was a bit like Bond st. You know, bond Street used to back in the day, it was a bit like that. Walking in, you're like, wow, this is amazing. You know, this, I remember when I first went into Bond Street, you know, back in the day as in the system, and you were just like, geez, you know, this is, it was packed with people and things and music and phones and the energy of it was
 
kind of, you, it was like the first time you kind of felt that kind of, that pace Of Sassoon you know, the pace of things that happen and you've got, you have to get on that train, otherwise you get left, left behind, you know? So, I think Buckingham Gate had that energy about it. and in a sense Greek Street will, and, you know, and our location in Wilshire Boulevard, in LA will have that energy because everyone will be in one location. So, I think. it'll, yeah. It, I'm imagining it's just going to be every day you go in there, there's going to be so much stuff happening,

[00:16:13] Antony W: Ok so you know, with, you just mentioned, Wilshire Boulevard these two things, London and Wilshire Boulevard and in Los Angeles.

[00:16:21] Mark H: Yep.

[00:16:21] Antony W: They're, they're happening simultaneously. [00:16:23] Mark H: Yep. Basically, well, eight hours apart, but,
[00:16:26] Antony: Yeah exactly. Okay, so, so what was the thinking behind that? was there some behind doing them both at the same time? The sort of re-launch of the brand on a sort of global scale?

[00:16:38] Mark H: Well, I think, yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, we needed a space, a, a location in London and, and so, so that was the first thing. So we had to find a location for London. Obviously, since Covid and Buckingham Gate kind of went away. So we were looking at that and then really when we started to look at the, that part of the project, we sort of thought, well actually, if we are going to do that in London, you know, if we're going to consolidate and bring the team together and have this House of Sassoon concept, Why not replicate that in Los Angeles as well? Because obviously, you know, Debbie is based in LA Michael's based in la. So there is a certain, even though the, I suppose in a sense the heritage of Sassoon is in London, you know, right When you go right back to Bond Street. There is a certain amount of balance now between London and Los Angeles, the character of the brand. So, I think it kind of made sense. we've just moved into Wilshire well, recently anyway, into Wilshire Boulevard. So, it's, so it's just introducing the concept into that as well. and the concept we have is a very simple one. You know, consolidate the team, bring them all into one building, generate all the excitement and the energy and invite Alumni, if you like, of Sassoon to come and be part of it so that it works anywhere. You know, it works. these are the first two.

[00:17:55] Antony W: So, it's not.

[00:17:56] Mark H: I mean, there may be more.

[00:17:57] Antony W: Yeah. So, it's not the old location in Wilshire Boulevard. There's a new location, is it?

[00:18:03] Mark H: it's the location. We've moved, we moved to, from Santa Monica.
 
[00:18:07] Antony W: Right. Okay.

[00:18:08] Mark H: When we left Santa Monica, so it's, so, it's that. It's that same building, but we are that we are kind of, yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:13] Antony W: But the education [00:18:14] Mark H: Beautiful
[00:18:16] Antony W: Yeah, the education component wasn't Santa Monica that's all now under one roof there ok that’s exciting.

[00:18:21] Mark H: Exactly.

[00:18:22] Antony W: So, 10 million quid, 10 million pounds. number that was floating around the media that had been invested in this big investment

[00:18:31] Mark H: That’s the investment. [00:18:31] Antony W: That
[00:18:32] Mark H: Exactly.

[00:18:32] Antony W: of the same ownership. You mentioned Michael then, so just a massive, big investment into reinvention of the brand

[00:18:40] Mark H: I mean, the thing is with Michael, he, you know, he's absolutely, he grew up with Sassoon I don’t know, many people don't really know Michael, but he grew up in Los Angeles and he was a contemporary of Vidal's children, you know, Eden and Elan he’s friends with them. So he's always been around He always says, I've always been around the Sassoon brand And he used to be about when Vidal and Beverly used to walk into a restaurant in LA they were like celebrities or they were celebrities. So he said he always used to see that and he said when it, you know, when the opportunity arose for him to acquire the Sassoon Academy and Salon brand, he leapt at the opportunity cause he's, he feels, you know, like a lot of other people, he feels like part of it, part of, you know, part of that family. So yeah. So, he's made a massive commitment. To the future of the brand and super excited to realize it, you know?

[00:19:29] Antony W: Good. and what about other salons in the US? Are they still like, you know, happening like New York

[00:19:36] Mark H: Yeah,

[00:19:37] Antony W: Is that still happening?
 
[00:19:39] Mark H: New York, Boston, Washington, Toronto, Scottsdale in Arizona. those are the salons that, that we, that we are on, obviously Beverly Hills that we have. And yeah, this concept is, you know, starting in London, Los Angeles, and who knows, you know, maybe New York would be next. You know, something like that would be super exciting as well. So, it's really a re-launch of the brand. It's a re- launch of the, you know, I really believe that. I think it's a, not just a new location or a new concept, it's a re-launch of the entire brand And I think that's the way the team are looking at it as well. You know, the team are super excited about this concept of working together and you know, I always loved that Andy Warhol factory sort of thing.

[00:20:22] Antony W: Yeah.

[00:20:22] Mark H: Minus the drugs. But, you know, I love the idea of artists and photographers and, you know, musicians and all those kind of cool people hanging out. I've always had in my mind, I've always seen Sassoon like that. You know, I think, you know, when you and I were in the academy together, you know, we had that kind of, it was that energy, you know, you finished work, you finished the teaching during the day, and you might have that models coming into the evening, or you know, you'll go to the pub after work and you sit there and you come up with more ideas, more stuff. In fact, some of the best ideas .Were created over a pint, most of them to be honest. so, you kind of lived eat and breathe it, you know? And I think, I think that still happening now. You know still the energy of the brand now.

[00:21:08] Antony W: So, when does, when does it open? Is there a fixed date in the sand here for this to happen?

[00:21:12] Mark H: Well, the big opening will be Salon International. The That's what we are planning an event on Saturday evening at Salon International. Where everything, hopefully the paint will have dried. So, so Salon International is the big launch, but we are, we're kind of doing, it's in phases. So, June, the, June the first is the first phase where the salon will locate. Then we are going to bring in the, Diploma students, the long-term students, then weekly students, and then over, so, so for three or four month period of moving into the space. And then October will be fully operational, you know?

[00:21:48] Antony W: Okay. you mentioned, just this will just come back into my head. you mentioned that the salon in Greek Street, the new salon, the House of Sassoon is going to be called Vidal Sassoon

[00:21:59] Mark H: Yeah. Long ago it was. 10 years ago or something. It was sort of like the name disappeared off everything and it was just to be called Sassoon.

[00:22:07] Antony W: And that’s being called House of Sassoon which I love. I think it really sort of says, this is heritage, this is solid. This has been here forever. This is a hub or whatever the word is. What was the thinking behind going back to calling the salon?
 
[00:22:20] Mark H: A Vidal Sassoon Again, I think you know, certain things, it just felt right. You know the name, you know, Vidal Sassoon I mean, when I, as I say, when I first turned up at Sassoon's Door back in the day, and you got that ne, that Vidal Sassoon the name above the door stood for something, you know? And yes, we've made a decision probably, yeah, probably about 10, 10, 15 years ago now. If not more, to change the Sassoon And the reason for that is we had Sassoon Academy, Sassoon Salon, Sassoon Professional, the product line. So it was kind of Sassoon you know, and I think, you know, What, whatever you want to think about that. it was, you know, it's a bit like Chanel, you know, Chanel is just Chanel, it's not Coco Chanel, it's Chanel and Saint Lauren is the same and what have you ballenciaga. So, there is something to be said for just one name, but then when we were doing this, I thought, you know what, it would be super cool just to, to re you know, Vidal Sassoon just to rebrand it as Vidal. This is Vidal Sassoon, because there is something, there's just something about that name. That everyone. and Sassoon kind of works with something after it, like Sassoon Academy, Sassoon but Sassoon just on its own, I don't know, it's just not quite as compelling as Vidal Sassoon

[00:23:35] Antony W: Yeah. Okay. Good. Good point

[00:23:36] Mark H: So that's, so there was no other reason that than it's just, it's the original thing. So, see, I think, you know, when you were saying earlier about, you know, the brand. Change, you know, the change, the difference between change and remaining the same. I think there's room for, I thought you were going to say something else actually, because I think it's great coming up with new ideas, you know, and the launch of House of Sassoon is a new idea. It's a new thing for the brand, but I also think there's merit in using, not necessarily staying the same, but using stuff you've done before that you might have forgotten about you know, stuff that you have done. You know, and I always say to people that coming up with ideas is not the difficult thing. Anyone can come up with ideas, is executing the ideas. That's the thing. And Vidal you know, one of the things that he always used to say was, you know, if you come up with something good, do it and move on

[00:24:33] Mark H: That that was his thing. Do it and move on. You know, get, if you've got a good idea, execute it and move on to the next thing. Move on to the next thing. And I think that's what I try and work on the team with. You know, they come up with a cool idea, whether it's hair or anything else. Come up with a cool idea. Okay, great. Now let's execute it and then move on to the next thing, you know, make sure that's done properly, obviously, and then move the next thing.

[00:24:55] Antony W: That's where you earn the, right, it's that, coming back to that word, heritage again. You don't have heritage when you've been open five years or 10 years, or twenty, you know, you, it just isn't a thing. Like, have really earned your stripes and heritage doesn't mean old it, means, you know, like we have heritage behind this brand. We have done enormous, we have a back catalog of staff.

[00:25:23] Antony W: Which you only can do in time to, to reinforce a degree of credibility and history and place in the market that isn't for sale. So, yeah, look, I think its amazing.
 
[00:25:34] Mark H: Oh, I think it's super ex. I mean, I think her, you know, when you look what, you know, we were saying about, you know, other brands earlier on, you know, Chanel and what have you, they all use their heritage. they, every single Chanel show opens with that little wool boucle suit thing. However, it, you know, however it's designed and whoever's designed it, for that brand, they always open with that look. So they're so, you know, Balenciaga is probably the most recent huge brand to sort of reinvent itself and, you know, so I think Sassoon you know, is in that league certainly in terms of the, you know, the years it's been around and I, you know, and in a way it's using the heritage. To in, it's using the her to inform what you do now with hair, because I think, you know, to be honest, I always say that in some ways the way Vidal envisaged hair being done, you know, in, in the first instance, Vidal wanted hair to move and be free and, you know, and reflect the socioeconomic trends. At the time that his whole thing. You know, people were, you know, there was sexual liberation, there was all this kind of liberation going, and he wanted to cut hair, work with hair in a way that made the hair move in a cool way and fall back into place. That was his idea. And then later on in the seventies, the whole idea of wash and wear hair. You know, the whole idea of, you know, just letting your hair dry naturally and the texture and the movement and all that sort of stuff, you know, came in as well. and that suited people's lifestyles because they wanted to, you know, they didn't want to spend ages sat there, you know, blah, blah, blah with their hair. And I think now, when you think about it, who's got more time now than they did five years ago? 10 years ago? you know, 20, 30 years ago. Forget it, you know, life now is so, so in a way, Sassoon philosophy with hair is more relevant now than it was, you know, back in the day. So, I think, you know.

[00:27:25] Antony W: Let me, jump in with this. It's quite mean week. In that, you know, we're talking about Vidal we're talking about where it all began the sixties, and this is the week Mary Quant passed away so.

[00:27:36] Mark H: Yes, super sad.

[00:27:38] Antony W: And you talk about the heritage of all that. I mean, there's an obvious, what's the word? There's an obvious connection there. There's an obvious. Thing to celebrate. because it was a very tight sort of, collaboration where at the beginning they were both sort of exploding onto the scene in the same anything you want to, any tribute you want to pay to Mary Quant

[00:27:59] Mark H: Mary Quant.

[00:27:59] Antony W: It seems, it seems relevant to say something.

[00:28:02] Mark H: She was, yeah, she was quite an amazing woman. I met her a few times and, the first time I met her, I was an assistant and I'd gone down to Bond Street. I was based in South Molten. I come down to Bond Street to work for the day and Mary Quant came in, you know, she came in pretty regularly to get her hair done and I remember it was, we'd launched the product by then you know, we'd launched the Brown Line so everything smelled of cherry, almonds, the whole salon. And but Mary used to have, a particular treatment on her hair. So anyway, Mary comes in
 
and I think it was a guy called Raphael that was doing her hair at the time, and someone said, oh, can someone go and get a beer for Mary? because she used to have like a beer on her hair, right.

[00:28:42] Antony W: Her hair

[00:28:43] Mark H: Oh, yeah. no. so this is the thing. So, the, so this assistant gets sent off to get a beer from Mary. yeah. off they go. So, we're all kind of there, you know, watching what's going on and what have you, you know, running around, working and what have you, so this guy comes back 15 -20 minutes later and this guy comes back and Mary Quant is sat in the basin with her hair soaking wet. Comes up with a beer, glass, napkin tray and hands it to her. And I swear to you, she just sat there and she looked at him and she went its for my hair you idiot. Cause he's, he thinks she was, you know, here you go Mary, have a beer, lunch time Macon or something. You know what I mean?

[00:29:22] Antony W: Oh, gosh.

[00:29:23] Mark H: So, and then, so, so I mean, she, and she was, the thing about Mary Quant she was tiny. a tiny little thing, you know, you must have met her when, you know, in, in slow, when you were in know,

[00:29:32] Antony W: I didn't meet her. I saw her at events at, you know, [00:29:35] Mark H: Oh, okay.
[00:29:36] Antony W: But yeah, I

[00:29:36] Mark H: So, so we were doing this event for the fellowship and It was their 60th anniversary I think or something, and they wanted each hairdressing come and we've got time for this story. By the way.

[00:29:47] Antony W: Just, yeah.

[00:29:49] Mark H: Alright. we were doing all the, we, they wanted us to do the decades of the fellowship. So obviously Sassoon you know, we were given, we were given the sixties and they wanted a celebrity to open each decade. So obviously me and, our press officer at the time, Susie phoned up at Mary Quant's, PA and would she come and open the show? Oh yeah, she'd be delighted, blah, blah, blah. So anyway, so the big night comes, Mary Quant turns up, me and Su go out and meet her in the foyer of this hotel we were doing the event at. And we've got five models that we can present on the stage and all the rest of it. So, Mary turns up, hi Mary. And she, as I say, she's tiny, she turns up with this massive big limo or whatever it was.
 
[00:30:26] Antony W: And comes in and we're having dinner for this event, right? So in she comes and we sit down and, she, we are talking and it's kind of noisy in the place.

[00:30:35] Mark H: Who actually talking? She's talking like that. And I'm like going, you know, when you can't quite hear? And I'm like, right, okay, you know, trying to hold this guy. And she's sat in between me and Sue. Anyway, the waiter comes over, would you like a glass of wine? And she's oh yes. Gets a glass pours the old white wine goes in for the first soup course or whatever. So, she has a glass of white wine, I'm thinking. All right, nice. She has another one I'm thinking. I kind of clock it and then the main course and we are on straight after dinner. So straight after dinner with our thing. So anyway, so then the main course comes around and Mary, you know, would you like a glass of red yeah. Lovely. And I'm thinking, Jesus, she's going to be pissed by the time she's only a tiny thing. She's going to be pissed when she goes. So, I'm looking at Suzie, Susie looking at me, and I'm thinking, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. you know, and we've, and I'm super excited that Mary's going to open the show. I'm thinking it's going to be amazing. And then as I'm watching her knocking this wine back, I'm thinking maybe this is going to be a disaster. I didn't realize, you know, anyway. Off. She, so they come over with, so we've, so Mary's had half a bottle of wine in both courses. They come over, they say, oh, you know, mark, we're ready for you now. So me and Mary and Susie go backstage with the models and everything where they're being prepped and, we walk back and she's going, so, so what in this tiny little voice? What, so what do I do? Then I'm like, you’re introducing the show, what do I do? I’m thinking, oh my God. And then they hand her this microphone that's about as big as her, this huge great big microphone.

[00:32:06] And I'm just stood there thinking, oh my God, this is going to be a dis, it's going to be a disaster. I know it is. going to be a nightmare. And I was thinking, this is going to be so cool. It's one of the first things I did as in it as creative director as well. Anyway, on Goes Mary So the, so anyway, the MCs like, you know, now ladies and gentlemen, blah, blah, blah. We're going to have this, you know, show from Sassoon Please welcome on stage Living Legend. You know, British designer, Mary Quant, the whole place erupts, right? The whole place. Everyone stands up, everyone's applauded in cheering it, it just goes on. And this, it's about two or three minutes of applause and cheering. Amazing and she's just stood there with this microphone. And, and what then the applause sort of stops. And I'm thinking, right, come on Mary, come on. Step backstage. come on. And she just, and I swear to you, she just launched into this story about Sassoon, and she said, you know, about meeting Vidal for the first time, about going into the salon in Bond Street and having a haircut and a sense of liberation and blah, blah, blah. And she told the story about him cutting her ear as well, bless her. And, and she said, and really, you know, really Vidal Sassoon and the pill changed everything in the sixties. Anyway, the next day, Vidal hears about this event that we, because he was always interested in what we were doing. He is about this event. And I, he called me up and he said, oh, hi Mark. How was the event at the village? I said, yeah. I said Vidal Mary just said you and the pill were the best things in the sixties. And he's like, well, that's a good company to be in, isn't it? And I was like, yeah.

[00:33:41] Antony W: Exactly. Oh, great
 
[00:33:43] Mark H: So, so yes, he was a little powerhouse. and Vidal you know, Vidal used to talk about her so fondly you know, about that whole and as much as anything else, she was a disruptor, the same as Vidal You know, she wasn't,

[00:33:57] Antony W: Yeah

[00:33:57] Mark H: She was, kind of into doing her own thing and from literally nothing. She created this brand that's still huge now. You know, Japan that little Mary quant, daisy symbol, everywhere

[00:34:10] Antony W: Yeah. [00:34:11] Mark H: It's, it's incredible.
[00:34:12] Antony W: it evolved a lot from the miniskirt into cosmetic, you know.

[00:34:16] Mark H: Yeah, and it was the first time that fashion moved from Paris to London. Paris obviously being the home of Fashion.

[00:34:23] Antony W: Yeah

[00:34:23] Mark H: It was the first time in, in that period that London became the center of everything. You know, not just hair with Vidal, but you know, fashion, Mary Quant you know, that, you know, so it, it was literally a sea change moment. Everything changed from that moment on.

[00:34:39] Antony W: Yeah. End of an era. Yeah. Without a doubt end of one era and now it's the end of that era with her passing. Okay. let's get back to talking about the House of Sassoon there's an obvious connection with. You know, like this was happening pre Covid. I'm thinking of Soho House that this whole idea of members, clubs that were a working space, a restaurant, a bar, a club, or you know, whatever you want it to be. It would mean different things to different people. And but I'm sort of anchoring that on the original Soho House model and now Soho House has expanded. Its to many countries around the world, huge business. And it is a great model, and it is something of this generation without a doubt, you know? and so, you've already seen certain salon groups in, in London and in other countries that have already sort of gone down this road a little bit because it fits in with those things you were talking about, you know, the freelancer. you know, the photo studios, before we were recording, we were talking about We Work and again the whole We work model of a place where people come together and do something and then go their own way. Very exciting. So, I'm not even sure what I'm asking you about here. I'm just sort of trying to get you to talk to us about that. Because if I just go back to what you were saying before when I said about Vidal and change and you went, yeah, but you know, at the time no one was thinking that change was such a big deal. And that's right when, you know Vidal was in his late twenties, early thirties, whatever it was there was an irreverence about change. You didn't think about it. It was just like full speed ahead. You had nothing no history, you had no heritage. It
 
was just like; I'm going to change the world and get on with it. Whereas once you've got that heritage and once you've got that history, you have to think very carefully about change, or you can stuff things up completely. And so to change requires a lot of courage. As well as a lot of money. it requires a lot of courage. It requires being brave to change, and that's what I love about what you are doing. So, talk to us about how things like Soho House, things like other salon groups that might have done this or done things like this and just general sort of millennials, gen Z, how the way the world is moving and why that's influenced you to do this.

[00:37:04] Mark H: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because I think, you know, you think back on it, right? And we touched on it just now, you go to work. you work in your workspace, but then if you want to socialize, you leave your workspace and you go to a social space you know, you have a few drinks or dinner or whatever. So they were very separate entities almost. You know, I think back in, even back in, you know, when we were both at Sassoon you know, you kind of. Even though you hung out at Sassoon a little bit, eventually he gravitated to a different space. I think now the lines, and I hate all this, the lines between work and play are blurring. I hate all that sort of speak, but it kind of is, it's kind of true.

[00:37:45] Antony W: It is true. Yeah.

[00:37:47] Mark H: You know, it's kind of true. You kind of, you can go into a space now where yes, work is conducted and, but play is happening there as well. Collaborations are happening. And it just become, it, again, it goes back to that, you know, the idea of the factory where people just kind of turn up and they just kind of hang out and their, you know, they're, that's the, that's the energy that I love because all of the coolest things that have happened at Sassoon certainly in my, lifetime with the brand, all of the coolest things that happen with a brand happen with that kind. That kind of vibe about it. It's not, you don't sort of set a time for these things to happen. They just kind of, you know, you know what I'm saying? They just kind of happen. You know, you might have the just it just the right people at the right time and the right conversation and the right kind of energy and then you start a conversation and all of a sudden, you're thinking, actually, yeah, that's really cool. And then you take it somewhere. And I think the workspace now is much more. about that type of energy than it is about coming in, doing your job, finishing your job, and leaving and going somewhere else to have a cool time.

[00:38:57] You know, and I think the House of Sassoon will be, Will naturally be that kind of environment. Cause you'll have all the people there. you'll have all the team there. Then you'll have, you know, the friends of Sassoon let's call them that the ambassadors, the members will be there. The clients, obviously the models from the shoots who are all cool people as well. You'll just have this kind of melting pot of stuff going on. You're in the middle of Soho You know, which is arguably one of the most exciting, traditionally, one of the most exciting parts of London with the stuff that goes on there.

[00:39:32] Antony W: Yeah
 
[00:39:32] Mark H: And I think, you know, it made sense for the brand to evolve in that way because, it’s always kind of been that sort of brand anyway. For anyone that's worked at Sassoon or studied with Sassoon they'll know that the energy about Sassoon is just the fact of cool people hanging out together, eating, breathing, sleeping, hair. In a very particular way. You know, the way we work with hair is very specific.

[00:39:58] Antony W: and all of the ideas that relate around that, you know, whether it's how to deliver the hair or how to manage or lead the, you know, all the ideas that come up.

[00:40:09] Mark H: are born out of a cool collaboration. And that's the environment that the House of Sassoon will be,

[00:40:15] Antony W: So, on the ground floor there will be a salon with employees in it.

[00:40:21] Mark H: Exactly. [00:40:22] Antony W: Then
[00:40:23] Mark H: Employees. But also, the concept is that with our diploma course, which is obviously our long term beginner's course, they will, gravitate through their course. It's split up into different stages. On the last stage of their course, they'll actually be housed in the salon itself.

[00:40:39] Antony W: Okay

[00:40:40] Mark H: So that, so they'll be still with the teacher and everything, but they'll be working in a salon environment. So, the whole thing is, From a beginner's perspective, it's geared towards kind of being in the classroom and then at the end of your course coming out of the classroom and being in the salon. So, you get that experience if you like.

[00:41:00] Antony W: Working like a graduate.

[00:41:02] Mark H: Exactly, yeah that. You know, it's like, its staff training basically, you know, But you and I knew staff training that which was always, which was like the Sassoon for those people who Don’t know, that's the Sassoon finishing school.

[00:41:13] Antony W: Yeah.

[00:41:13] Mark H: Which was You know, I was lucky enough to, you taught it. Didn't you teach it as well at one stage, staff training.

[00:41:19] Antony W: I covered people once or twice.
 
[00:41:21] Mark H: Felt like it felt like you did. [00:41:22] Antony W: Right. Okay. Yeah.
[00:41:23] Mark H: but you know, teaching, staff training was always perceived as the ac, the ultimate accolade of Sassoon if taught staff training. That was, and I was lucky enough.

[00:41:32] Antony W: Yeah. Must know.

[00:41:34] Mark H: Well, yeah. well also you are, you have to be able to communicate with young people who, you know, they're the next generation, if you like, and Sassoon so you have to kind of harness them in, harness and direct and push them forwards, but still, hopefully trying to give them a little bit of, Commercial awareness and you, the, at the, at that stage. So I think, you know, that's going to be staff training in, and that will be housed in the salon space, which is the ground floor. And then the, on that floor as well. There's the photographic studio, which is housed at the back of the building, which is a big white space, natural daylight, which will be super cool.

[00:42:11] Antony W: And then the rest of the floors four, four more is five floors in total. The rest of the floors are dedicated towards classrooms. There's this amazing decking space that's, opens out, outdoor.

[00:42:22] Mark H: That will be used. Outdoor. Yeah. So, it'll be fabulous for at least two, two weekends of the year when it's,

[00:42:28] Antony W: Great. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. [00:42:31] Mark H: So that'll be amazing.
[00:42:33] Antony W: You can use it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. [00:42:35] Mark H: Without an umbrella.
[00:42:36] Antony W: Yeah

[00:42:37] Mark H: So that's there as well. And then as you go up, there's different classrooms, different local, each floor will have like a sort of student lounge. Where people can just hang out and, you know, kind of outside of the classroom, so to speak. And then on the top floor there's the admin department, you know, everyone looks after the students and everything else. And then also the team room, the team lounge,

[00:42:57] Antony W: Right that we used to call.
 
[00:42:59] Mark H: The staff room.

[00:43:00] Antony W: Will there be a bar, will there be a, there be a bar in there? Anywhere?

[00:43:04] Mark H: There's enough bars in, Soho salons Christ, you step out. I'll tell you what, you step outside the building. There's a bar on the left. There's a bar opposite. There's Les Escargot is opposite as well. Remember Les Escargot the restaurant.

[00:43:14] Antony W: Yeah

[00:43:15] Mark H: So yeah, so there's about four bars within staggering distance place.

[00:43:20] Antony W: But it's a thing you said before it, it made me think of Starbucks, where Starbucks had this. You know, motto, whatever the thing was that they called it, they talked about Starbucks originally as being the third place, before that,

[00:43:34] Mark H: The place.

[00:43:35] Antony W: Place you had work, you had home, third place, you know, that wasn't home that wasn't work and all of a sudden, and it wasn't the pub. But you'd go there at 10 o'clock in the morning, get your laptop out, you'd have a coffee, and you'd work for a meeting and all that sort of stuff. So, I think that that was in some ways a sort of the forerunner of merging, as you said, this

[00:43:54] Mark H: Yeah.

[00:43:55] Antony W: Yeah, whatever and I know now a lot of big corporate spaces, [00:44:00] Do have like concessions in them that are staff, you know, whether it's a gym or whether it's a restaurant or a bar, or coffee shop or whatever. So that it all goes on within that building.

[00:44:11] Mark H: Yeah.

[00:44:11] Antony W: And there a lot said for that one, one thing I, I just want to ask about, I, I know we have to wrap up in a few minutes, but the membership thing, you know, the freelance of working space. How will, how will that work? Or hasn't that been nutted through yet? Like who, you know who can do it? You know what.

[00:44:29] Mark H: Alumni of Sassoon Yeah. Essentially, it's anyone that's studied or been employed by Sassoon that's the way we're, I mean, to be honest, Antony some of this is kind of work in progress, how thinking right now. Is there anyone that's studied or, or. as I said, worked at Sassoon If they feel as though they want to be
 
part of the Sassoon family, again, there'll be a, there'll be like a membership fee that they pay, you know, and it'll credit them for a certain amount of hours that they can use a chair for, and you, and they'll probably, I think there's going to be like membership models, like different sort of ways to, you know, monthly or annually or whatever. The, all the memberships will be valid for London and Los Angeles. So, if you are an in international jet setter and you want to do clients in London and LA

[00:45:13] Antony W: Yeah,

[00:45:14] Mark H: You know, you can do that. So, I think really, it's, it's kind of trying to find a way that if you want to work for Sassoon in a different way to the traditional employment model, that's an opportunity. That's an opportunity. So, in a sense that's why we are doing it. Because people, you know, talking about work life balance sort of stuff, you know, back in the day we worked, you know, five, six days a week, well, seven days a week, all the hours of God said, that's just what you did. You know? Whereas, whereas younger people now, I don't think younger people want to work less hard. You know, I hate it when people say, oh, you know, young people, they just want everything now. They just, they don't want to wait. And I'm like, well, no, because they've grown up in the digital age, you know? You know, my children who are now 20, Jamie is 29 and Lucie is 26. They don't remember the world without the internet. Without mobile, they're, that doesn't exist.

[00:46:08] Antony W: It's not their fault.

[00:46:10] Mark H: You know, we, exactly. we kind of, you know, you and I grew up in an age before mobile phones, before, you know, so it's still a, somehow, it's still a bit of a novelty to us in a way, you know, that you can just connect onto a phone and just find out anything you want, blah, blah. so, I think. Young people, they want to work differently.

[00:46:27] Antony W: Exactly.

[00:46:28] Mark H: Well, in fact, they don't even want to work differently. They just want to work how they want to work they kind of see the way we used to Yeah. you know, flexibility and doesn't mean they don't want to do great things and do cool things, but they have a different perspective on the way that work plays out in their lives. And I think, you know, talk, we said earlier about the blurring between work and life and a work and play rather. I think that's it's just different now. You know? It's just different. and I think sometimes it's kind of tricky for us to kind of get our heads around because we are used to, what do you mean you don't want to, you know, what do you mean it's half past 10, you're going home. What is it a half day, which you think this is a, which you think this is a game? You know what I mean? But, you know, but you know, people say, but you know, gen Z and you know, all that sort of stuff. And ah, you know, they've got no, they've got no, commitment to things. They just want everything. And I know that's not true. You know, I know you children, you know, they, there's not true. they want to work, they want to, you know, they want to do cool things and they want to what have you. but their values are different, and they should be.
 
[00:47:38] Antony W: Yeah

[00:47:39] Mark H: They should be different. Jesus. I mean, if any, everyone was like us.

[00:47:42] Antony W: Yeah, exactly. last thing I just wanted to acknowledge is the space that it's in has a great history.

[00:47:49] Mark H: Yeah.

[00:47:50] Antony W: Central St. Martin's, you know, college and Conde Nast, et cetera. so, so are you walking into a space. In many ways sort of laid out and got the different things that you already need within it.

[00:48:05] Mark H: To, yeah, the structure. Absolutely. The structure. Yeah. I mean, it's, we are super lucky. I mean, Debbie has to take a massive amount of credit for finding this place and, securing it because, you know, it's no easy, you know what it's like buying properties and stuff like that, you know, even just buying a personal property but commercial one is even, more than that. So, so I think yes, structurally it's pretty sound. It's pretty sound. So, the actual build out won't be quite as arduous as maybe some, obviously you need, there are certain specific things you need for a salon, know, water, electricity, light.

[00:48:38] Antony W: Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:48:40] Mark H: You know. So, yeah, so from a structural point of view, it's absolutely beautiful. You know, it is a really beautifully, it's actually two buildings that have kind of been knocked in a sense, knocked together you've got the Georgian facade of the one side of the and then a modern facade next to it and then, and inside you as you go in, it's a double, kind of, every floor is up a double space

[00:49:06] Antony W: Great.

[00:49:07] Mark H: So, it's, yeah, I mean, it is, it's, I can't wait for you to see it, to honest,

[00:49:12] Antony W: I can't wait to go. [00:49:12] Mark H: You know what I mean? [00:49:13] Antony W: Definitely
[00:49:13] Mark H: You know, it's a super exciting space and what we are going to do as well, and actually this is where your listeners can come into is this is that what we are going to do is to realize the history. You know, we've talked, we've spoken about the heritage, is that as you walk in the building, excuse me, as you walk in the
 
building, over the. Four, five floors all the way through to the top. We are going to run like a history of Sassoon all the way through it. And what I'd love to have is, you know, obviously we'll have pictures of, you know, the, all the iconic hair and, maybe some of the team and all that sort of stuff. We are going to try and have Artifacts of Sassoon You know, like what I'd love to do is, for example, if you've got the image of the, of the Nancy Quant picture, we laughing now image of the, we'll come back to that. Hold on the Nancy Quan picture, you would have like a little monitor next to.it that would have footage of the wild affair, you know, the movie that the Nancy Quant haircut was from, and then a little caption. So, so it really is like a gallery. So anyone thats walking into the space can kind of go through and, you know, the Olympics, like the video of the Olympic 84 London Fashion Week, you know, when we sponsored that, you know, all that sort of stuff be all the way through the building. What are you laughing at? Go on and tell me.

[00:50:34] Antony W: I was just thinking about the where the Prime Minister lives, 10 Downing Street,

[00:50:38] Mark H: Yeah.

[00:50:39] Antony W: they, you know, in that movie Love actually, which I'm sure seen, love actually, and there's all the pictures of the Prime Ministers on the stair well

[00:50:46] Mark H: The stair well [00:50:47] Antony W: When she go up. [00:50:48] Mark H: Yeah, What?
[00:50:48] Antony W: In vision of like, you like the history of Sassoon and thinking of some of the things. That would, and maybe wouldn't hopefully be on that display Anyway, that's a story for another day.

[00:50:59] Mark H: Exactly. Yeah.

[00:51:01] Antony W: I know, conveniently I know that you, you had to go at this time, so I really wanted to thank you for the time you spend us

[00:51:07] Mark H: Absolutely

[00:51:07] Antony W: Thank you very much for that. Where can people connect with you on Instagram or the brand on Instagram or, you know, website? What social media, channels, et cetera. Can you tell us what they are.

[00:51:19] Mark H: Okay, so I'm Mark h Sassoon on, on Instagram and Sassoon is Sassoonacademy.com. Essentially that's, it's where everything happens. at Sassoon Academy.com, and also, we've got Sassoon online. Sasson online.com.
 
[00:51:33] Antony W: Okay. So let me just wrap things up here. I'll put those links, on and in our website and in the show notes.

[00:51:40] Mark H: Absolutely.

[00:51:40] Antony W: For today's podcast. so, if you are listening to this podcast with Mark Hayes and haveenjoyed it, do me a favor, take a shot, a screenshot, sorry, on your phone and, share it to Instagram Stories. And don't forget to subscribe and leave us a rating review on the Apple Podcast app. so. Mark Hayes to wrap up. Thank you so much for giving me an hour of your time.

[00:52:00] Mark H: My pleasure, Antony Absolutely.

[00:52:02] Antony W: It's been great you know, be able to grill you and ask you these questions and get a sensible answer from you.

[00:52:09] Mark H: What you mean?

[00:52:12] Antony W: Great great talking to you ok [00:52:14] Mark H: You too. You too mate. [00:52:15] Antony W: Cheers mate.
[00:52:15] Antony W.: Thank you for listening to today's podcast. If you'd like to connect with us, you'll find us at grow my salon business.com, or on Facebook and Instagram at Grow My Salon Business. And if you enjoyed tuning into our podcast, make sure that you subscribe, like, and share it with your friends. Until next time, this is Antony Whitaker wishing you continued success.