1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:02,340 I am. 2 00:00:03,390 --> 00:00:04,920 And this is choosing leadership. 3 00:00:05,340 --> 00:00:09,510 A podcast for high performers, with big dreams at work and life. 4 00:00:10,380 --> 00:00:14,280 This is a podcast for people who know deep inside that there is more. 5 00:00:15,450 --> 00:00:17,369 Have you achieved a great deal of success? 6 00:00:17,759 --> 00:00:21,090 But on the inside, you still feel empty and like an imposter. 7 00:00:22,050 --> 00:00:24,270 Do other people see you as a strong leader? 8 00:00:24,660 --> 00:00:28,650 And you wonder why it still feels so lonely and suffocating. 9 00:00:29,339 --> 00:00:34,289 The aim of this podcast is not to provide you more content, but instead shift 10 00:00:34,289 --> 00:00:35,849 the context under which you operate. 11 00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:40,199 I dare to speak to the tremendous power, which you already have 12 00:00:40,319 --> 00:00:41,609 rather than what you believe. 13 00:00:42,029 --> 00:00:43,769 Are your strengths and limitations. 14 00:00:44,459 --> 00:00:47,489 This podcast is called choosing leadership because that is 15 00:00:47,489 --> 00:00:49,529 what leadership is a choice. 16 00:00:49,876 --> 00:00:52,306 And this is the leadership journey, CDs. 17 00:00:52,936 --> 00:00:56,806 I am interviewing leaders with an interesting story to learn how 18 00:00:56,806 --> 00:00:58,036 they got where they are today. 19 00:00:58,576 --> 00:01:01,396 We all have a lot to learn from each other's stories. 20 00:01:01,936 --> 00:01:02,476 Of Viet. 21 00:01:02,506 --> 00:01:04,096 We started very veer now. 22 00:01:04,486 --> 00:01:06,736 And over successes and struggles on the V. 23 00:01:07,216 --> 00:01:09,406 With this series of interviews, my attempt. 24 00:01:09,886 --> 00:01:13,996 Is to give leaders an opportunity to share their stories and for all of us 25 00:01:14,026 --> 00:01:16,126 to learn from their genders sharing 26 00:01:18,196 --> 00:01:22,786 is the executive director of Africa, no filter, which is working to 27 00:01:22,786 --> 00:01:27,106 shift the narrative about African people and Africa as a continent. 28 00:01:27,706 --> 00:01:32,116 She has also worked with the bill and Melinda gates foundation previously. 29 00:01:32,566 --> 00:01:36,976 And prior to that, she was a well-known TV, presenter, producer 30 00:01:37,216 --> 00:01:41,896 auto publisher, and a successful entrepreneur, which she calls. 31 00:01:42,661 --> 00:01:47,251 Jumps from one tree to another and the interview, she talks about her 32 00:01:47,251 --> 00:01:52,441 trust in the universe and how that allows her to take risks and venture 33 00:01:52,441 --> 00:01:54,031 into very different territories. 34 00:01:54,061 --> 00:01:54,571 We talk about. 35 00:01:55,441 --> 00:02:00,781 How growing up in Nigeria gave her such a boost of confidence that she doesn't 36 00:02:00,781 --> 00:02:03,901 see failure as anything except learning. 37 00:02:04,531 --> 00:02:10,411 She also highlighted how her parents never told her that she cannot do this or that. 38 00:02:10,981 --> 00:02:14,221 And which allowed her to take big risks in her career. 39 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:18,090 Hi, Moky welcome to the show. 40 00:02:19,020 --> 00:02:19,770 I am summit. 41 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,030 Nice to meet you. 42 00:02:21,690 --> 00:02:22,380 Same here. 43 00:02:22,650 --> 00:02:27,480 Wonderful to have your head under full, to have a habitat video and 44 00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:31,140 to begin with, can you maybe share with our listeners a little bit 45 00:02:31,140 --> 00:02:32,640 about who you are and what do you 46 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:32,940 do? 47 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:34,230 Okay. 48 00:02:34,230 --> 00:02:38,792 I usually start my introductions saying I was born in Nigeria. 49 00:02:38,808 --> 00:02:44,058 I went with educated in the UK and then about 25 years ago, 50 00:02:44,058 --> 00:02:47,988 I moved to South Africa and I honestly feel that's where so many. 51 00:02:48,583 --> 00:02:50,218 Big moments in my life happened. 52 00:02:50,287 --> 00:02:54,908 So I'm I guess the best way to describe my career in terms of 53 00:02:54,908 --> 00:02:58,658 describing me is I C I like stories. 54 00:02:58,733 --> 00:03:03,733 I am a communicator and storytelling is a medium that I really work with. 55 00:03:03,733 --> 00:03:07,453 And that is actually what I do now as a living, I have a job where 56 00:03:07,453 --> 00:03:11,713 I'm the executive director of a non profit called African of filter. 57 00:03:12,338 --> 00:03:17,609 Which is a an organization that was set up by a number of UK and us 58 00:03:17,609 --> 00:03:22,889 funders to help shift harmful and stereotypical narratives about Africa. 59 00:03:23,399 --> 00:03:29,219 And because we understand how narratives occur, which are through 60 00:03:29,219 --> 00:03:32,519 stories, told persistently over time. 61 00:03:33,519 --> 00:03:36,729 Our theory of change, is that in order to shift or change the narrative, you've 62 00:03:36,729 --> 00:03:38,469 got to introduce new different stories. 63 00:03:38,469 --> 00:03:40,209 So we fund storytellers. 64 00:03:40,239 --> 00:03:42,309 So I'm very much in the storytelling space. 65 00:03:42,338 --> 00:03:44,236 But prior to that I've written book. 66 00:03:44,806 --> 00:03:47,934 I've written a book about Africans, greatest entrepreneurs I've done. 67 00:03:47,951 --> 00:03:51,053 Documentary lifestyle series called living at about afterwards, which 68 00:03:51,303 --> 00:03:53,253 famous I've published other books. 69 00:03:53,253 --> 00:03:58,263 I did a series of books called Nali books, which were really trying 70 00:03:58,263 --> 00:04:00,033 to get younger people to read. 71 00:04:00,048 --> 00:04:01,232 And we turned them into films. 72 00:04:01,283 --> 00:04:05,569 My hardcore jobs, prior to this role, I was at the bill and Melinda gates 73 00:04:05,569 --> 00:04:07,279 foundation and heading up communications. 74 00:04:07,309 --> 00:04:09,649 I'm still trying to figure out how to tell stories about 75 00:04:09,649 --> 00:04:11,719 development, work on the continent. 76 00:04:11,719 --> 00:04:17,978 And yeah, so I've done a lot, I'm old, but when I think about how best to describe 77 00:04:17,978 --> 00:04:23,558 myself, increasingly I realize it's around communications and around storytelling 78 00:04:24,578 --> 00:04:25,058 and wonderful. 79 00:04:25,208 --> 00:04:27,446 I prefer to use the word wise rather than. 80 00:04:27,896 --> 00:04:33,006 Yeah, I'd say the, I entered into, I entered one of these alcohols sites 81 00:04:33,006 --> 00:04:35,646 unit says before you were allowed to go into the site, it would actually 82 00:04:35,646 --> 00:04:39,405 the Johnny Walker and it pops up into the screen and you have to put your 83 00:04:39,405 --> 00:04:43,185 date of birth in, and then it shoots you a quick screen grab that says 84 00:04:43,185 --> 00:04:45,435 you are X and it tells you your age. 85 00:04:45,465 --> 00:04:48,735 And I suddenly thought my God internet, doesn't let you forget how old you are. 86 00:04:48,735 --> 00:04:50,810 You may call yourself wise, there's internet. 87 00:04:51,050 --> 00:04:53,390 This website told me how old I was. 88 00:04:53,878 --> 00:04:54,298 Yeah. 89 00:04:54,358 --> 00:04:57,519 And as you spoke about story and narratives you, and you 90 00:04:57,519 --> 00:05:00,369 mentioned briefly about living in multiple different countries, 91 00:05:00,429 --> 00:05:01,959 what is the, what is your story? 92 00:05:02,589 --> 00:05:03,499 Where are you coming from? 93 00:05:03,499 --> 00:05:04,117 I'm Nigerian. 94 00:05:04,127 --> 00:05:06,607 I was, like I said, I was born in Nigeria, but I spent a lot 95 00:05:06,607 --> 00:05:08,257 of time outside of Nigeria. 96 00:05:08,290 --> 00:05:10,854 But I think where it matters, where it counts in my heart. 97 00:05:10,921 --> 00:05:12,008 And the way I. 98 00:05:13,113 --> 00:05:13,773 The question. 99 00:05:13,773 --> 00:05:17,460 I ask people who don't live, where they were born or where 100 00:05:17,850 --> 00:05:19,110 their parents were born. 101 00:05:19,875 --> 00:05:21,105 Where do you want to be buried? 102 00:05:22,215 --> 00:05:26,385 And when I think about that, I won't be buried in Nigeria or my ashes 103 00:05:26,565 --> 00:05:28,302 sprinkled in Nigeria that's home. 104 00:05:28,572 --> 00:05:31,872 So I think first and foremost, I am Nigerian and second be I 105 00:05:31,872 --> 00:05:34,032 am an African because I think I've lived a lot of my life. 106 00:05:34,672 --> 00:05:38,439 Out of Nigeria but increasing a lot more of it in on the continent. 107 00:05:38,439 --> 00:05:39,994 So I've, I live in South Africa now. 108 00:05:39,994 --> 00:05:45,496 Through my career, I seen myself as very entrepreneurial and somebody 109 00:05:45,496 --> 00:05:46,726 who just gets up and does things. 110 00:05:46,726 --> 00:05:51,226 So I've done multiple projects and I used to have a talk about my career, 111 00:05:51,226 --> 00:05:52,726 which is called jumping trees. 112 00:05:53,266 --> 00:05:56,956 And the reason why I use that analogy was that I never climbed 113 00:05:56,986 --> 00:05:58,516 the tree to get to the top of it. 114 00:05:58,576 --> 00:05:59,536 I went to the top of one. 115 00:06:00,396 --> 00:06:02,586 To the top of another, to the top of another. 116 00:06:02,586 --> 00:06:03,966 So I was jumping trees. 117 00:06:03,966 --> 00:06:05,886 It was D it's a different perspective on life. 118 00:06:05,984 --> 00:06:10,894 And it requires some, to be brave because you don't have that experience 119 00:06:10,894 --> 00:06:12,454 of, oh, I've been doing this for years. 120 00:06:12,479 --> 00:06:14,971 You learn as you're doing it. 121 00:06:14,971 --> 00:06:20,780 So I think when I think about myself Or when people think about maybe I'm brave. 122 00:06:20,780 --> 00:06:21,560 I think I'm brave. 123 00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:22,550 I step out. 124 00:06:22,550 --> 00:06:23,420 I take risk. 125 00:06:23,510 --> 00:06:27,890 I do, I believe in taking risks and I believe in doing it first. 126 00:06:27,950 --> 00:06:33,380 And in fact, Nike's slogan just do it is the slogan that I live by. 127 00:06:34,490 --> 00:06:35,060 Wonderful. 128 00:06:35,390 --> 00:06:38,690 And there's a spoke about those jumps from one tree to another. 129 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,917 Can you share maybe a couple of those key jumps in your life and how has 130 00:06:42,917 --> 00:06:44,837 that shaped you as a person and as. 131 00:06:45,287 --> 00:06:45,647 Yeah. 132 00:06:45,677 --> 00:06:46,979 The sort of things I've done. 133 00:06:46,979 --> 00:06:51,179 I produced the, my first sort of documentary series. 134 00:06:51,179 --> 00:06:55,487 I got a commission from, this Pan-African platform here called emanate. 135 00:06:55,557 --> 00:06:56,497 I'd never done it before. 136 00:06:56,525 --> 00:06:59,405 So I set up a production company and I went off. 137 00:07:00,085 --> 00:07:02,095 Did this, that was jumping trees. 138 00:07:02,095 --> 00:07:04,015 Cause most of the times you will work in a production company. 139 00:07:04,015 --> 00:07:04,795 You'll work your way up. 140 00:07:04,795 --> 00:07:09,235 I was the executive producer of this concept, so that was a tree I jumped on. 141 00:07:09,565 --> 00:07:13,225 The first book I ever wrote got published and picked up by penguin books. 142 00:07:13,225 --> 00:07:14,575 That was Africa's greatest entrepreneurs. 143 00:07:14,575 --> 00:07:17,091 So I went from, not that I had a small title here. 144 00:07:17,091 --> 00:07:18,711 I went to one of bleeding publishers. 145 00:07:19,456 --> 00:07:22,800 All of a sudden I had a Bookout and all that followed with it. 146 00:07:22,837 --> 00:07:25,027 I, what are the other things I've done? 147 00:07:25,657 --> 00:07:26,827 I've done so many things. 148 00:07:27,292 --> 00:07:30,735 Yeah, even when like I set up a publishing company I'd never 149 00:07:30,735 --> 00:07:32,085 worked in a publishing company. 150 00:07:32,181 --> 00:07:32,931 I just set it up. 151 00:07:32,961 --> 00:07:35,631 So now I'm running a publishing company again, that was jumping 152 00:07:35,631 --> 00:07:37,431 trees into a totally new industry. 153 00:07:37,508 --> 00:07:40,508 I don't often talk about this, but I used to be an actress as well. 154 00:07:40,508 --> 00:07:43,328 And in that I got asked because I was on TV presenting stuff. 155 00:07:43,328 --> 00:07:45,968 I got asked to be in this drama series called Jacob's cross, 156 00:07:45,998 --> 00:07:48,008 which was, it was like Dallas. 157 00:07:48,008 --> 00:07:48,938 I don't know if you remember Dallas. 158 00:07:49,018 --> 00:07:54,695 It was an oil sort of, dentisty Nigerian dentisty and then saw an African family. 159 00:07:54,695 --> 00:07:56,975 It was very, and I got a lead role in it. 160 00:07:56,975 --> 00:08:01,895 So I went from never being an actress to having been a lead on a what turned out 161 00:08:01,895 --> 00:08:06,695 to be a really groundbreaking, a major drama series in Africa, on the continent. 162 00:08:06,695 --> 00:08:07,715 So I went in. 163 00:08:08,530 --> 00:08:12,250 Straight from never having gone to drama school, never hadn't been in 164 00:08:12,296 --> 00:08:17,691 any drama productions to being in a top drama that required a lot of being 165 00:08:17,691 --> 00:08:19,714 brave because I'd never acted before. 166 00:08:19,738 --> 00:08:23,825 And I remember the producer the last day when the series ended and she 167 00:08:23,825 --> 00:08:26,945 came on stage and she just reminded me when I was like the first day. 168 00:08:27,425 --> 00:08:31,275 And, I remember thinking, gosh, you've just got to trust the universe that 169 00:08:31,275 --> 00:08:36,135 when you do these things, when you jump onto a tree or you jump from one thing 170 00:08:36,135 --> 00:08:39,945 to another, I just trust the universe, which requires a lot of confidence 171 00:08:39,945 --> 00:08:41,565 in both yourself and the universe. 172 00:08:41,565 --> 00:08:43,005 But I think I've been very good at that. 173 00:08:43,695 --> 00:08:45,315 Knowing that I land on my feet 174 00:08:45,832 --> 00:08:47,482 and I want to come to that. 175 00:08:48,812 --> 00:08:53,192 Trusting the universe part, but before I'm very curious about what took you 176 00:08:53,192 --> 00:08:57,272 down these very different looking pals, like from an being an actress to 177 00:08:57,272 --> 00:08:59,438 being in to being what you do today. 178 00:08:59,468 --> 00:09:00,138 And yeah. 179 00:09:00,168 --> 00:09:05,174 So what has been the curiosity or the connecting threads between these gems 180 00:09:05,984 --> 00:09:09,794 between, the book, the series of books, even the acting, there were 181 00:09:10,004 --> 00:09:13,164 the thing that I think brings them all together is that they were all telling. 182 00:09:14,054 --> 00:09:15,944 Stories about the continent. 183 00:09:16,154 --> 00:09:17,954 It really bothered me. 184 00:09:18,017 --> 00:09:21,404 I was I lived in England in 1985. 185 00:09:21,404 --> 00:09:22,904 I was in my late teens. 186 00:09:22,934 --> 00:09:25,994 That's when live aid the concert happened. 187 00:09:26,324 --> 00:09:29,861 So I'm Bob Geldof and all these, superstars were talking about Africa. 188 00:09:30,881 --> 00:09:32,201 It was very poor continent. 189 00:09:33,191 --> 00:09:38,014 It faces of starving children and they needed to help, anybody who had one pound 190 00:09:38,044 --> 00:09:39,784 could help an African, a poor African. 191 00:09:40,204 --> 00:09:41,974 And I remember just being really angry. 192 00:09:42,334 --> 00:09:44,974 I was African and that, that was not the African I knew. 193 00:09:44,974 --> 00:09:48,169 And I thought, setting the world, this single image of the continent 194 00:09:48,649 --> 00:09:50,299 and that was a really pivotal moment. 195 00:09:50,299 --> 00:09:55,160 It really shaped a lot of things I did since, because I started writing, I wrote 196 00:09:55,700 --> 00:09:59,359 articles about, I remember one of them, I saw it recently called three white men 197 00:09:59,359 --> 00:10:03,872 that was Bob Geldof and Bano and I don't know who the third one was the one that. 198 00:10:04,927 --> 00:10:06,427 Men who wanted to save Africa? 199 00:10:06,817 --> 00:10:08,347 I started doing a lot of things like that. 200 00:10:08,347 --> 00:10:10,591 The book I wrote Africa's greatest entrepreneurs. 201 00:10:10,591 --> 00:10:14,461 It was really about saying, look, hold on a minute, that entrepreneurs who 202 00:10:14,461 --> 00:10:18,091 are world-class on the continent, doing amazing things, making money running 203 00:10:18,091 --> 00:10:19,801 businesses, but we didn't know about them. 204 00:10:19,801 --> 00:10:20,051 They weren't. 205 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,158 And the internet is not, it was not as prolific, then as it is now. 206 00:10:23,458 --> 00:10:27,444 So the book came about on, because of that the series living it that 207 00:10:27,444 --> 00:10:31,374 I did was really about trying to showcase Africans in a different light. 208 00:10:31,494 --> 00:10:34,639 The series was about lifestyles of the rich and famous in Africa. 209 00:10:34,665 --> 00:10:36,421 And again, nobody was seeing those. 210 00:10:37,456 --> 00:10:38,266 On the continent. 211 00:10:38,536 --> 00:10:42,183 And I remember after the series was done, I approached a European, I 212 00:10:42,183 --> 00:10:46,518 think actually somebody in Holland or Amsterdam to see if we could get 213 00:10:46,518 --> 00:10:48,571 it on a station in Europe somewhere. 214 00:10:48,571 --> 00:10:52,441 And I remember the response that I got was that, no, we can't take this. 215 00:10:52,441 --> 00:10:56,761 We can't sell it because Europe is not ready to see Africans living with. 216 00:10:57,976 --> 00:10:59,396 That was the response I got. 217 00:10:59,455 --> 00:11:04,042 So it was this perpetual sort of battle against how the world sees Africa, which 218 00:11:04,042 --> 00:11:08,062 was very different to how I saw Africa and how I saw myself as an African. 219 00:11:08,392 --> 00:11:14,542 So a lot of the things I did and I'm doing, because my current job is entirely 220 00:11:14,542 --> 00:11:19,081 all about, shifting narratives about Africa, all of the, that sort of feeding 221 00:11:19,081 --> 00:11:20,567 has informed many of the things that. 222 00:11:20,567 --> 00:11:27,104 Yeah it's been about, how do I present the continent in its best light? 223 00:11:27,584 --> 00:11:29,624 That's what's been a driving force. 224 00:11:30,224 --> 00:11:30,704 Yes. 225 00:11:30,784 --> 00:11:35,704 And was that living in England and shoe and seeing that a narrative that 226 00:11:35,704 --> 00:11:39,356 shaped you or that pushed you to to take those different jumps with w the 227 00:11:39,356 --> 00:11:41,246 common thread of telling a difference? 228 00:11:41,735 --> 00:11:45,093 I've got, like I said, I think that 1985 live aid concert was the trigger 229 00:11:45,093 --> 00:11:50,553 moment that made me start thinking about what can I do to change the. 230 00:11:51,085 --> 00:11:54,519 We do things, there's been many things that have happened many instances 231 00:11:54,519 --> 00:11:56,185 in my life, I lived in the UK. 232 00:11:56,185 --> 00:11:58,585 So you're faced with, people judging you. 233 00:11:58,644 --> 00:12:03,564 I remember I'd applied for a job and I was sitting in a recruitment agents office and 234 00:12:03,864 --> 00:12:06,892 he said, Mike, I think you're great, but I can't put you forward for this job because 235 00:12:06,892 --> 00:12:08,349 they're not ready for a black woman yet. 236 00:12:08,349 --> 00:12:10,917 There's another job I had where, was told that, you're not doing. 237 00:12:11,377 --> 00:12:13,149 So there's no way you're going to, get further. 238 00:12:13,149 --> 00:12:16,492 So yes, there was this image that, because you're black, you weren't as good. 239 00:12:16,492 --> 00:12:20,984 And you were African, you were even not really not as good because I've 240 00:12:20,984 --> 00:12:22,484 always said there's a hierarchy. 241 00:12:22,484 --> 00:12:26,023 It's probably white men at the top, then black men, then white 242 00:12:26,023 --> 00:12:28,153 women and then black women. 243 00:12:28,153 --> 00:12:31,564 And then at the bottom of that is African women, so I think those couple 244 00:12:31,564 --> 00:12:35,006 of ladders one has to climb up, but yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons. 245 00:12:36,191 --> 00:12:36,491 Yeah. 246 00:12:37,601 --> 00:12:38,981 How did you dealt with that? 247 00:12:39,011 --> 00:12:43,722 Because that sounds like like very discriminatory or even racist. 248 00:12:44,112 --> 00:12:47,917 And also as a young girl, as a teenager, how did you react to that? 249 00:12:47,917 --> 00:12:49,057 And how has that shaped you? 250 00:12:50,047 --> 00:12:53,677 Look, I think the first, most important thing is I, my formative years 251 00:12:53,677 --> 00:12:57,157 were, spent in Nigeria and there was something about that continent that. 252 00:12:58,149 --> 00:13:00,189 Us all such a boost of confidence. 253 00:13:00,209 --> 00:13:03,588 I stepped out in the world as if I was in first class and the 254 00:13:03,588 --> 00:13:04,788 world had to fall behind me. 255 00:13:04,788 --> 00:13:08,568 So whilst it did happen, it wasn't something at the front of my 256 00:13:08,568 --> 00:13:09,978 mind because I didn't grow up. 257 00:13:10,863 --> 00:13:11,223 The eating. 258 00:13:11,223 --> 00:13:12,093 I was second rate. 259 00:13:12,273 --> 00:13:16,473 I grew up believing I was a proud Nigerian and still am, and that 260 00:13:16,473 --> 00:13:17,973 makes a very big difference. 261 00:13:17,973 --> 00:13:21,363 So I was coming from probably a different place to what, somebody who grew up 262 00:13:21,393 --> 00:13:25,443 growing up there and had been faced with racism and right from an early stage. 263 00:13:25,773 --> 00:13:30,003 And in fact, the first time I remember a racist incident was 264 00:13:30,003 --> 00:13:31,293 when I was in boarding school. 265 00:13:31,343 --> 00:13:34,130 And I'd been there for a couple of years and then they had south African. 266 00:13:34,755 --> 00:13:36,405 Come to the school and white south African. 267 00:13:36,795 --> 00:13:39,285 And I remember she walked into the room and saw me sitting there and 268 00:13:39,285 --> 00:13:40,965 she said, who's that for that go. 269 00:13:41,295 --> 00:13:42,735 And to be honest, I've never. 270 00:13:43,470 --> 00:13:45,870 I heard myself described as a black girl. 271 00:13:45,870 --> 00:13:48,780 So I even looked to see who she's talking about, who is this black girl? 272 00:13:48,810 --> 00:13:50,250 Cause I'd never seen myself as that. 273 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,110 And ironically, they put us in the same room together and we had 274 00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:55,150 that all mighty massive fight. 275 00:13:55,270 --> 00:13:58,553 And that's the first sort of experience I had or, there were 276 00:13:58,553 --> 00:14:03,173 people with racist attitudes and I must've been about 15 or 16. 277 00:14:03,658 --> 00:14:04,048 Yeah. 278 00:14:04,108 --> 00:14:06,849 . And now I want to come to that trusting the universe park. 279 00:14:06,879 --> 00:14:11,919 As you connect these threads in your life, as you jump from one tree to another, 280 00:14:12,249 --> 00:14:17,829 what does allowed you to actually sustain yourself and to maintain the level of 281 00:14:17,919 --> 00:14:22,299 leadership requires to not just lead yourself, but also lead other people like. 282 00:14:22,907 --> 00:14:25,997 I think one of the big things that I think I've been very happy and 283 00:14:25,997 --> 00:14:31,847 blessed with is the innate sense within myself, but whatever I do, I can do it. 284 00:14:32,370 --> 00:14:35,610 I think there's, you need to really first of all believe in yourself. 285 00:14:35,790 --> 00:14:37,870 So to have other people believe in you. 286 00:14:37,870 --> 00:14:40,901 So I have, and there's been a real strong sense. 287 00:14:40,901 --> 00:14:45,170 Even if it doesn't work, what will I learn from it? 288 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:46,890 And I haven't been scared of failure. 289 00:14:46,892 --> 00:14:49,478 If I was an entrepreneur, I started up a little fashion 290 00:14:49,478 --> 00:14:51,078 business and it didn't work. 291 00:14:51,078 --> 00:14:52,878 I started off at a restaurant business in London. 292 00:14:52,908 --> 00:14:54,978 It didn't work, but it didn't stop me. 293 00:14:55,558 --> 00:14:58,470 Starting other things, I got been once I forget what I know about 294 00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:59,560 that, and I don't want to do that. 295 00:14:59,630 --> 00:15:03,616 In, in my like dumb storage room, I have a whole lot of books. 296 00:15:03,646 --> 00:15:05,656 I have a lot of books that I didn't sell. 297 00:15:05,716 --> 00:15:08,956 And I remember asking my husband to fund this massive print run 298 00:15:08,956 --> 00:15:11,826 because I needed to bring the price of a books to a certain point. 299 00:15:11,846 --> 00:15:13,966 I needed to print a lot and he did. 300 00:15:14,026 --> 00:15:14,386 And. 301 00:15:15,286 --> 00:15:18,226 I've got a lot of them still because we didn't sell the volumes. 302 00:15:18,255 --> 00:15:23,184 Failure is part and parcel of who I am, because I don't see it as failure. 303 00:15:23,204 --> 00:15:24,847 I just see it as, the experience. 304 00:15:24,907 --> 00:15:29,557 And I think that is a huge sort of difference in confidence 305 00:15:29,557 --> 00:15:31,387 booster because I never failed. 306 00:15:31,927 --> 00:15:32,827 I just learnt. 307 00:15:33,587 --> 00:15:36,187 I wound up getting on that because that's such a profound 308 00:15:36,187 --> 00:15:38,159 statement and then I never. 309 00:15:38,962 --> 00:15:41,842 Uh, And I know that failure is, can be a very heavy word 310 00:15:42,652 --> 00:15:44,032 for leaders and entrepreneurs. 311 00:15:44,032 --> 00:15:46,132 And I just want to gain that. 312 00:15:46,132 --> 00:15:47,212 That is not trivial. 313 00:15:47,242 --> 00:15:48,187 That is that is key. 314 00:15:48,187 --> 00:15:52,417 Or in fact that powers that those jobs and that trust with you mentioned. 315 00:15:53,317 --> 00:15:56,962 . And as I just spoke about narratives, as you spoke about stories is that 316 00:15:56,962 --> 00:16:00,850 also, is that a continental thing or is that something which you have from your 317 00:16:00,850 --> 00:16:05,240 family or was that a family narrative or something growing up in, in in 318 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,380 Nigeria that you had this confidence or this sense about failure or taking. 319 00:16:10,108 --> 00:16:11,926 No I don't think so. 320 00:16:11,926 --> 00:16:15,660 I I was the youngest child and I think there's research that shows that the 321 00:16:15,660 --> 00:16:20,280 youngest child in the family, because I do believe in birth order youngest. 322 00:16:21,435 --> 00:16:25,607 Child syndrome is that they take, tend to take more risks because they grew 323 00:16:25,607 --> 00:16:28,797 up a little faster cause they want to do whatever their older siblings done. 324 00:16:28,797 --> 00:16:32,320 So yeah, I believe that and they probably get a lot of attention 325 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:33,280 because they're the youngest. 326 00:16:33,310 --> 00:16:35,794 So I think, that's probably what I got. 327 00:16:35,794 --> 00:16:39,997 And also just the fact that I had parents who never stopped me doing anything. 328 00:16:40,023 --> 00:16:42,883 I don't remember ever being told you can't do this or you can't do that. 329 00:16:42,905 --> 00:16:44,420 Yeah, I think, things like that. 330 00:16:44,420 --> 00:16:45,600 There's an element of it. 331 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,050 It starts at home, starts with your upbringing. 332 00:16:49,093 --> 00:16:52,213 But a lot of it, I think you acquire over time as well. 333 00:16:53,053 --> 00:16:53,273 Yeah. 334 00:16:53,723 --> 00:16:56,591 So is there something that people misunderstand about you? 335 00:16:57,731 --> 00:16:58,271 Oh yes. 336 00:16:58,901 --> 00:16:59,841 The angry black woman. 337 00:17:00,291 --> 00:17:00,741 Yeah. 338 00:17:00,771 --> 00:17:01,023 I've worked. 339 00:17:02,163 --> 00:17:06,677 Various roles where, because I am quite strong and I have an opinion. 340 00:17:07,217 --> 00:17:08,087 I remember the first time. 341 00:17:08,507 --> 00:17:12,437 I was actually in South Africa where I had a job and I had to, 342 00:17:12,467 --> 00:17:15,257 I advised a client on something. 343 00:17:15,257 --> 00:17:16,727 I thought that he was doing. 344 00:17:16,727 --> 00:17:18,077 I didn't think it was the right approach. 345 00:17:18,077 --> 00:17:21,025 And I thought as my, as in my role, this is client facing person. 346 00:17:21,025 --> 00:17:22,795 That was my role to advise them what to do. 347 00:17:22,795 --> 00:17:26,695 And I remember him saying and telling, going to tell my boss at the time, 348 00:17:26,700 --> 00:17:28,448 Moki does not understand my business. 349 00:17:28,958 --> 00:17:31,398 And rather than think that I'd done anything wrong, I put it down 350 00:17:31,418 --> 00:17:34,508 somewhere that he couldn't bear being told that he was wrong by somebody. 351 00:17:34,580 --> 00:17:37,430 Quite frankly, I was black female, this was South Africa, apartheid. 352 00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:38,210 We just ended. 353 00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:41,360 And the only black woman he probably interacted with was it made, who 354 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:42,800 told, who he told what to do. 355 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,052 So there's always been that, you, people aren't necessarily ready to 356 00:17:47,052 --> 00:17:50,782 hear certain types of people tell them what's right or what's wrong. 357 00:17:50,822 --> 00:17:55,142 And again, I come from very competent race of people, Nigerians as do pre-made 358 00:17:55,142 --> 00:17:56,547 competent, but, for good or bad. 359 00:17:56,585 --> 00:17:58,450 And I'm very articulate. 360 00:17:58,450 --> 00:18:00,040 I think I'm very well educated. 361 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:00,790 I'm very quick. 362 00:18:00,790 --> 00:18:03,582 I speak very quickly and all of these things, can sometimes 363 00:18:03,582 --> 00:18:04,572 where people up the wrong way. 364 00:18:04,572 --> 00:18:05,352 And I think. 365 00:18:06,342 --> 00:18:09,862 So when I say, when you ask me about, have I been misunderstood? 366 00:18:09,882 --> 00:18:13,705 I think my intentions might've been misunderstood, but I think, a lot 367 00:18:13,705 --> 00:18:16,465 of it to do is profile profiling. 368 00:18:16,465 --> 00:18:17,815 It's unconscious bias. 369 00:18:17,845 --> 00:18:21,071 It's a lot of things that people do inadvertently. 370 00:18:21,076 --> 00:18:22,906 But yeah. 371 00:18:23,571 --> 00:18:28,071 I, as I get older, as you have you call, as I get wiser, you become more 372 00:18:28,071 --> 00:18:35,128 comfortable, in your skin and you, I learned to soften the edges and, 373 00:18:35,138 --> 00:18:39,818 there's one thing that I was told in one of the organizations I worked with, 374 00:18:40,088 --> 00:18:45,121 which has really helped, is assume best intent, before you get angry. 375 00:18:45,188 --> 00:18:49,437 Seeing this person hasn't done this or whatever, assume that 376 00:18:49,467 --> 00:18:52,257 they have a really good reason why they haven't assume best intent. 377 00:18:52,677 --> 00:18:58,317 And that's really been a guiding force that, and the fact that I, because I 378 00:18:58,317 --> 00:19:00,777 am older and wiser, I've done a lot. 379 00:19:01,047 --> 00:19:02,487 I think I have a lot to give back. 380 00:19:02,517 --> 00:19:05,607 So I positioned myself in my leadership as a coach. 381 00:19:05,674 --> 00:19:10,716 So there are times when people have done things have failed or have gone wrong. 382 00:19:10,716 --> 00:19:14,196 And so I don't get angry about that because I'm glad we did it, but I 383 00:19:14,196 --> 00:19:15,726 always ask, so what have we learnt? 384 00:19:15,732 --> 00:19:17,369 Can you see the lesson in this? 385 00:19:17,369 --> 00:19:22,679 Because if you can't, then that lesson has been an expensive actual failure. 386 00:19:22,689 --> 00:19:24,299 So I think failure is all about learning. 387 00:19:24,809 --> 00:19:29,674 So yeah, that's something that I try to use to inform my approach 388 00:19:29,704 --> 00:19:31,857 with leadership and my team. 389 00:19:33,157 --> 00:19:36,337 That resonates very well with the kind of work that I do. 390 00:19:36,907 --> 00:19:40,508 And I do see the role of narratives, which which occur in every business school. 391 00:19:41,453 --> 00:19:44,723 In every team, whether it's about racism or whether it's about 392 00:19:44,993 --> 00:19:48,323 two different industries or two different departments in a company. 393 00:19:48,713 --> 00:19:51,773 And what you just mentioned about assuming best intent. 394 00:19:51,803 --> 00:19:54,231 I think that's very powerful. 395 00:19:54,321 --> 00:19:57,201 And now you're, you are actually working to shifting narratives. 396 00:19:57,621 --> 00:19:59,120 So how do you, what, or what have you learned. 397 00:19:59,835 --> 00:20:04,663 In shifting narratives because many times these narratives are invisible to us. 398 00:20:04,873 --> 00:20:09,133 So when we misunderstand and when these narrative clash, they are in the 399 00:20:09,133 --> 00:20:10,963 subconscious, they are not conscious. 400 00:20:10,963 --> 00:20:14,221 So how do you shift, how do you consciously shift that narrative? 401 00:20:14,249 --> 00:20:15,719 What have you learned and what can you share? 402 00:20:16,909 --> 00:20:17,059 It was 403 00:20:17,059 --> 00:20:20,933 when I had a similar conversation with somebody who was looking, asking me, 404 00:20:20,963 --> 00:20:25,433 what would our approach be to shifting narratives around polarization, 405 00:20:25,463 --> 00:20:26,783 which is a really big issue. 406 00:20:26,783 --> 00:20:28,553 Now, the world is very polarized. 407 00:20:28,578 --> 00:20:33,437 It's political polarization, it's ethnic, it's gender, and my approach 408 00:20:33,437 --> 00:20:37,246 to that is that in order to shift narrative about any issue, you've got to 409 00:20:37,246 --> 00:20:39,916 understand again, what are the stories? 410 00:20:39,916 --> 00:20:43,478 What have individual beliefs people have because they lead up. 411 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:44,100 Narrative. 412 00:20:44,176 --> 00:20:47,112 Summit, I could, believe that all, you're a terrible person. 413 00:20:47,182 --> 00:20:49,042 I heard that you owe people money. 414 00:20:49,042 --> 00:20:52,841 I've heard that, you've got multiple wives and, multiple children that you've 415 00:20:52,901 --> 00:20:55,765 never really been in touch with them. 416 00:20:56,065 --> 00:20:58,795 So the narrative around you would be that you're dishonest. 417 00:20:58,853 --> 00:20:59,663 I don't trust you. 418 00:21:00,283 --> 00:21:04,363 You know what you around, but in order for me to understand that narrative, I have 419 00:21:04,363 --> 00:21:07,903 to figure out what are the things I've heard about you and in with any issue, 420 00:21:08,233 --> 00:21:09,733 those are the things you go back to. 421 00:21:09,733 --> 00:21:13,423 So for example, in our narrative work around Africa, there's sort 422 00:21:13,423 --> 00:21:18,223 of five key frames that Africa has always been depicted as, so it's not 423 00:21:18,223 --> 00:21:21,013 just the negative or stereotypical. 424 00:21:21,073 --> 00:21:24,733 We know what they are, the lens, the framing of poverty. 425 00:21:25,568 --> 00:21:30,188 Framing a poor leadership framing of corruption of conflict disease. 426 00:21:30,398 --> 00:21:33,008 So it's, again, it's about going down to understand what are those 427 00:21:33,008 --> 00:21:37,358 individual stories or individual issues that ladder up to a narrative. 428 00:21:37,598 --> 00:21:39,998 Once you understand them, then you can address them. 429 00:21:40,028 --> 00:21:43,778 The issue of conflict at the conflict actually came up quite 430 00:21:43,778 --> 00:21:45,048 recently, when I think there was. 431 00:21:45,095 --> 00:21:49,445 There's a lot of headlines in the wall street journal, financial times that Koons 432 00:21:49,445 --> 00:21:51,365 were beginning to proliferate in Africa. 433 00:21:51,365 --> 00:21:56,045 Again, Africa has 1554 countries in the last 10 or 12 years. 434 00:21:56,075 --> 00:21:57,605 There had been only four Coons. 435 00:21:57,632 --> 00:22:01,742 But when they asked people, how many based on reading the story, how many 436 00:22:01,742 --> 00:22:05,822 coups do you think they have been on the continent of African last couple of years? 437 00:22:05,822 --> 00:22:08,312 People would said they must have been 40 50 because of the. 438 00:22:08,957 --> 00:22:09,797 It was written, right? 439 00:22:10,067 --> 00:22:13,638 So you go back and you say actually, 54 countries, four of them have 440 00:22:13,638 --> 00:22:17,462 had Coons, 50 of them happened, there's stability on the continent. 441 00:22:17,732 --> 00:22:21,152 And that's how you address narrative, not necessarily by fact, but by storytelling. 442 00:22:21,212 --> 00:22:24,509 So tell the stories of the other countries that haven't had crews. 443 00:22:24,509 --> 00:22:27,685 And again, so that's the approach to, to, to shifting narrative. 444 00:22:27,685 --> 00:22:28,765 It's about understanding the issue. 445 00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:32,920 Underline those narratives and then changing them one story at time. 446 00:22:33,910 --> 00:22:34,300 Yes. 447 00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:35,440 Thank you for sharing that. 448 00:22:35,496 --> 00:22:39,406 And I assume that you bump into those different narratives from time 449 00:22:39,406 --> 00:22:43,396 to time or people who try to change that narrative, get into that because 450 00:22:43,396 --> 00:22:45,111 as you said the world is polarized. 451 00:22:45,111 --> 00:22:46,851 So there are very opposing narratives. 452 00:22:47,241 --> 00:22:50,994 So when that happens, how do you or your teams manage that 453 00:22:50,994 --> 00:22:54,337 pressure or that conflicting narratives and still stay ground. 454 00:22:55,002 --> 00:22:58,302 Talk to their commitment towards shifting the narratives versus 455 00:22:58,302 --> 00:23:02,172 getting lost in the debates and the polarization of two different matters. 456 00:23:02,263 --> 00:23:04,583 I'll take it back to the thing I did at the beginning was that 457 00:23:04,613 --> 00:23:07,793 because we understand how narratives evolve they're through stories. 458 00:23:07,823 --> 00:23:09,953 We are essentially focused on storytelling. 459 00:23:10,463 --> 00:23:11,753 Storytelling is powerful. 460 00:23:11,753 --> 00:23:15,521 It has it's the single thing that can inform, educate, influence. 461 00:23:15,521 --> 00:23:17,111 If you think about, for example, how. 462 00:23:17,571 --> 00:23:19,770 You got your impression about America? 463 00:23:19,770 --> 00:23:21,270 It wasn't probably because you went there. 464 00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:23,550 It was because you watched the American movies, then you figured 465 00:23:23,550 --> 00:23:25,260 out that's, you know who they are. 466 00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:29,618 So it's a very, stories of very powerful and, media and films, 467 00:23:29,618 --> 00:23:32,798 if very powerful platforms and increasingly now social media. 468 00:23:33,128 --> 00:23:36,188 So we're very focused on our theory of change. 469 00:23:36,201 --> 00:23:38,334 It's not about, fighting the issue. 470 00:23:38,364 --> 00:23:41,364 It's about putting out stories that counter the issue, because 471 00:23:41,514 --> 00:23:43,914 over, there's been research that's been done that shows that. 472 00:23:45,174 --> 00:23:48,954 Change people's belief based on fact, because people's 473 00:23:48,954 --> 00:23:52,014 beliefs do not come from fact. 474 00:23:52,104 --> 00:23:57,294 It comes from perceptions and an ideology and all these other soft things. 475 00:23:57,294 --> 00:23:59,484 So you can believe the sky is gray. 476 00:23:59,484 --> 00:24:01,974 I could prove to you, the sky is blue. 477 00:24:01,974 --> 00:24:05,214 I could show you all the data that shows that the sky, but your thing 478 00:24:05,214 --> 00:24:06,366 is no, I still think it's gray. 479 00:24:06,546 --> 00:24:08,196 And that's actually where the polarization. 480 00:24:08,196 --> 00:24:11,899 So it, a lot of these sort of initiatives around misinformation and disinformation. 481 00:24:13,324 --> 00:24:16,714 Th that you can present the facts, but it's actually the 482 00:24:16,714 --> 00:24:18,004 stories that change people. 483 00:24:19,044 --> 00:24:20,034 . Yes, indeed. 484 00:24:20,274 --> 00:24:25,498 And I think realizing that is, is very important because facts can often lead 485 00:24:25,498 --> 00:24:29,598 to do endless debates and stories, which touch people on an emotional. 486 00:24:30,323 --> 00:24:33,877 Can actually allow them to shift their positions without feeling 487 00:24:33,937 --> 00:24:37,897 like they are moving away from a narrative or from a position. 488 00:24:37,987 --> 00:24:38,347 Yes. 489 00:24:38,917 --> 00:24:44,200 So as you just create a new narrative for Africa and for the continent and 490 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,130 for its place in the world, can you share us, hear a little bit about that? 491 00:24:48,183 --> 00:24:50,403 What does the future for Africa look like? 492 00:24:50,483 --> 00:24:52,223 For me, I think the future is bright. 493 00:24:52,223 --> 00:24:53,363 I think the future is very bright. 494 00:24:54,143 --> 00:24:55,073 For a couple of reasons. 495 00:24:55,073 --> 00:24:57,263 One is we have a very young population. 496 00:24:57,338 --> 00:25:01,548 You have to think about young people and their attitude and what they bring. 497 00:25:01,548 --> 00:25:05,396 I think about the fact that, creativity and innovation, the way the world 498 00:25:05,396 --> 00:25:09,735 is changing those old dynamics for example, banking, you needed to have 499 00:25:09,735 --> 00:25:12,525 a building and you need people to go in there and open an account. 500 00:25:12,555 --> 00:25:13,485 Now you need a. 501 00:25:14,175 --> 00:25:17,535 And you can have an equivalent of what a bank does, which is hold your money. 502 00:25:17,895 --> 00:25:22,759 That opens up the world to, opens up Africa to leapfrog a lot of 503 00:25:22,759 --> 00:25:25,423 the things that, more developed countries have had to go through. 504 00:25:25,663 --> 00:25:28,573 So when I think about the digital revolution, I think. 505 00:25:29,058 --> 00:25:33,528 Africa is where it's going to benefit us the most because we 506 00:25:33,528 --> 00:25:35,095 have got, a big step to take. 507 00:25:35,142 --> 00:25:38,622 So for me, when I think about the new narrative that I'd like to see 508 00:25:38,622 --> 00:25:42,590 around the continent, it's around creativity and innovation, because. 509 00:25:43,230 --> 00:25:46,230 There's just so much that needs to be done and we can't necessarily wait and 510 00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:50,486 do it the right way, African problems, African solutions, that's I believe it. 511 00:25:50,876 --> 00:25:55,586 And also the creativity one for me is critical because when you've got a 512 00:25:55,586 --> 00:26:01,376 young population who don't necessarily have access to all the education 513 00:26:01,436 --> 00:26:04,676 in the world or the best education in the world, and don't have access 514 00:26:04,676 --> 00:26:06,506 to a lot of the infrastructure. 515 00:26:07,211 --> 00:26:11,000 That supports entrepreneurship in America or, or governments that, support you 516 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,584 with, money to pay your rent, social systems, you have to be creative. 517 00:26:16,064 --> 00:26:20,084 So I think creativity, resilience, those are things that I think 518 00:26:20,084 --> 00:26:23,384 Africa has an abundance and those things don't cost anything. 519 00:26:23,437 --> 00:26:26,410 So when you talk about, what future do I see for the continent? 520 00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:29,170 I think we've got the tools we need to. 521 00:26:30,190 --> 00:26:30,880 Amazing. 522 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,477 And and I'm not just saying it, I think when you look at where the next year, 523 00:26:35,477 --> 00:26:38,459 everyone talks about emerging markets, Africa is where they need to come to 524 00:26:38,459 --> 00:26:40,319 this is where this is the next frontier. 525 00:26:40,919 --> 00:26:45,259 And I just want us as Africans to not wait for other people to come and, 526 00:26:45,263 --> 00:26:49,192 do the rent seeking and, take from us, but let's be creative and start 527 00:26:49,252 --> 00:26:51,386 businesses and, be innovative and be. 528 00:26:52,511 --> 00:26:53,021 Yes. 529 00:26:53,051 --> 00:26:56,021 And I wish you all the best for creating that. 530 00:26:56,021 --> 00:26:59,171 I think the thing this was entering, maybe not in a few decades, we 531 00:26:59,171 --> 00:27:03,461 will, I think the progress which the world would have seen, most of it 532 00:27:03,461 --> 00:27:05,291 would have been driven from Africa. 533 00:27:06,031 --> 00:27:09,221 I think that's where all the economic data is already showing that. 534 00:27:09,247 --> 00:27:13,433 But as we speak about Africa, One continent as one word. 535 00:27:13,433 --> 00:27:17,434 I also see threads of this in Europe, like with the European union and 536 00:27:17,434 --> 00:27:20,179 in Asian countries with with two groups of countries coming to them. 537 00:27:21,049 --> 00:27:24,681 But to take it a step further the question which I have for you is that, what will 538 00:27:24,681 --> 00:27:30,201 it take for us to create like a really a global world we'll have one for, I think 539 00:27:30,201 --> 00:27:34,011 there are, you mentioned about digital technology and I think that is already 540 00:27:34,011 --> 00:27:39,531 allowing us to interact and share ideas much more freely without those boundaries. 541 00:27:39,531 --> 00:27:39,711 Right? 542 00:27:39,711 --> 00:27:40,791 There are no borders in this. 543 00:27:41,481 --> 00:27:42,207 It's so amazing. 544 00:27:42,467 --> 00:27:45,686 , What can we do or what message would you want to leave for leaders? 545 00:27:45,686 --> 00:27:49,855 And this is personally very irrelevant for me also like instead of moving from 546 00:27:49,855 --> 00:27:56,545 one Africa, one Europe, one issue, what can we do to really create a borderless 547 00:27:56,605 --> 00:28:01,255 society, which is anyways happening in the digital world where we spend most of 548 00:28:01,255 --> 00:28:03,685 our time, but it's still the narrative. 549 00:28:03,685 --> 00:28:05,665 I think it's the borders are there in the marriage. 550 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,067 No, it's interesting because I don't know that the borders, the 551 00:28:10,067 --> 00:28:11,837 physical borders are a bad thing. 552 00:28:11,897 --> 00:28:17,755 I think there's research that shows that some of the most, interesting innovations. 553 00:28:19,025 --> 00:28:24,155 Of diversity when there's people with different experiences in the room. 554 00:28:24,258 --> 00:28:25,038 And I love that. 555 00:28:25,308 --> 00:28:29,672 I think that, they put me a new and a white male and another white 556 00:28:29,672 --> 00:28:33,572 female in a room, we'll all bring different perspectives to that idea. 557 00:28:33,872 --> 00:28:39,630 So for me, When you say about one world and one, this it's sounds to me 558 00:28:39,630 --> 00:28:43,320 like we're looking for a homogenous society and I don't want that. 559 00:28:43,860 --> 00:28:47,700 I think freedom of movement, freedom of expression, freedom of ideas. 560 00:28:47,730 --> 00:28:48,660 Absolutely. 561 00:28:48,870 --> 00:28:54,630 But one something, no, I think we need to learn to embrace diversity because the re 562 00:28:54,660 --> 00:28:56,580 the fact that we are not very good at it. 563 00:28:56,580 --> 00:28:59,310 It's actually why there is so much polarization because people 564 00:28:59,310 --> 00:29:00,880 want us all to be the same. 565 00:29:00,915 --> 00:29:04,815 Nobody's allowing that truth that you live, let me live. 566 00:29:04,815 --> 00:29:07,990 Let's all live, and I think, South Africa, for example, I think has 567 00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:11,110 been one of the countries that's probably done it quite well. 568 00:29:11,139 --> 00:29:12,480 There's a lot of, tensions here. 569 00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:17,189 The different races, the living together not necessarily living together. 570 00:29:17,189 --> 00:29:18,779 I always say there's a bit like a rainbow. 571 00:29:18,779 --> 00:29:21,299 You can see lots of colors, but they don't necessarily merge. 572 00:29:21,659 --> 00:29:23,469 You can distinctly see the different colors. 573 00:29:23,469 --> 00:29:27,598 And so for me, it's really not about, one, anything it's about, 574 00:29:27,634 --> 00:29:31,144 embracing the diversity of this globe. 575 00:29:32,324 --> 00:29:36,691 . I think that it's a very important point that you make what real diversity is 576 00:29:36,691 --> 00:29:40,771 what you just said, like to listening to different opinions, to seeing different 577 00:29:40,771 --> 00:29:45,211 people for who they are and what they can bring to the table and not just trying 578 00:29:45,211 --> 00:29:47,557 to have a set of people from different. 579 00:29:48,462 --> 00:29:50,610 And then try to bring them in a unity. 580 00:29:50,621 --> 00:29:52,121 So thank you for sharing that. 581 00:29:52,221 --> 00:29:56,691 . So , before we end where can our listeners listen to you or find 582 00:29:56,691 --> 00:29:58,221 out more about you and what you do? 583 00:29:59,131 --> 00:30:00,201 So my. 584 00:30:00,243 --> 00:30:04,923 Website addresses, www.africa, no filter.org. 585 00:30:05,433 --> 00:30:09,805 So you'll find out all about the work we do there to shift narratives to Google 586 00:30:09,805 --> 00:30:12,085 me, I do a lot of writing night brutal. 587 00:30:12,115 --> 00:30:13,705 I write a lot of opinion pieces. 588 00:30:13,705 --> 00:30:17,094 I have a regular column in new African magazine where I put my 589 00:30:17,094 --> 00:30:18,924 thoughts down about African issues. 590 00:30:18,975 --> 00:30:19,575 And yeah. 591 00:30:20,715 --> 00:30:22,365 A lot of the stuff I do is on the internet. 592 00:30:22,905 --> 00:30:24,075 That's why I like the internet. 593 00:30:24,075 --> 00:30:25,905 You don't even have to keep it in your inbox. 594 00:30:25,905 --> 00:30:28,995 You just Google yourself, Google me. 595 00:30:29,085 --> 00:30:29,505 That's what I 596 00:30:29,515 --> 00:30:29,835 say. 597 00:30:30,735 --> 00:30:31,395 Wonderful. 598 00:30:31,565 --> 00:30:35,725 And thank you for sharing all your insights and your story Moky. 599 00:30:36,275 --> 00:30:38,375 I really appreciate your taking time for that. 600 00:30:38,885 --> 00:30:39,215 Thank 601 00:30:39,215 --> 00:30:41,165 you very much for inviting me on. 602 00:30:41,822 --> 00:30:45,212 That's it for this episode of choosing leadership with summit. 603 00:30:46,352 --> 00:30:50,042 I choose leadership every time I record this podcast and I 604 00:30:50,042 --> 00:30:51,482 invite you to do the same. 605 00:30:51,932 --> 00:30:56,312 I invite you to design a life of joy, meaning pride and satisfaction. 606 00:30:56,792 --> 00:30:59,732 Not just for yourself, but also for those around you. 607 00:31:00,572 --> 00:31:04,712 This is what I do most naturally to lovingly and gently provoke you. 608 00:31:05,162 --> 00:31:09,632 To help you see your own light to help you see what you are already capable of. 609 00:31:10,112 --> 00:31:14,012 I say what might be uncomfortable for me to say, or for you to hear. 610 00:31:14,612 --> 00:31:19,732 To show you that all of our dreams which have been on hold are within our grasp. 611 00:31:21,362 --> 00:31:24,602 If you like the sound of it, do not forget to leave a rating. 612 00:31:25,172 --> 00:31:29,372 I invite you to subscribe to my newsletter@deployyourself.com 613 00:31:29,702 --> 00:31:30,662 slash newsletter. 614 00:31:31,292 --> 00:31:35,132 You can also reach out on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook to share 615 00:31:35,192 --> 00:31:36,812 any other comment or feedback. 616 00:31:37,682 --> 00:31:41,132 I want to thank everyone who contributed to making the show. 617 00:31:41,192 --> 00:31:41,882 At reality. 618 00:31:42,392 --> 00:31:43,952 And thank you for listening. 619 00:31:44,432 --> 00:31:48,962 Always remember that you are enough, you are loved and you matter, this is summit. 620 00:31:49,352 --> 00:31:51,902 Until next time, keep choosing leadership.